arena tournament idea.

[keen musk]

Host monthly tournaments. The winner will receive a custom suit. The suit is your ticket.At the end of the year host a huge tournament with 12 players. Your suit is your entry fee. Suits/tickets can be sold on market place if you would rather have money than compete. This was just a fun idea I hope you enjoy. Thank you for all the time and hard work.
Very Respectfully,
2hayez

[tulip karma]

Love this idea 2hayez!

[craggy osprey]

oh mai

[glossy shell]

Love this, something similar has been on my mind but i like the idea of suits being the ticket to compete. Will chat about this with <@&1107754344499122206> and see what we can put together.

[craggy osprey]

👀

[cyan frigate]

The proposed tournament concept is intriguing for CASUAL PLAY; but when considering its potential as an official Illuvium esports event, several problems come up. Here are a few key issues to address:

Player Skill and Long-Term Validity: A year-long sequence of tournaments leading up to a world finals event will result in us not getting the best lineup of participants. Due to factors such as shifting metas, changes in players personal circumstances, and evolving skill levels over a long period of time, the top players at the beginning of the year will not be the same as those at the end. Similar things happened in the professional League of Legends scene, where teams that excelled in the spring might struggle to even reach the top four in the summer. They are still one of the three teams from their region to get sent to worlds even though they aren't even top 5 in their own region at the time of the event. Consequently, the inclusion of players whose abilities have declined could impact the overall competitiveness/prestige of the world finals and would honestly be cringe to watch imo (for an OFFICIAL esports event).

Pay-to-Win Concerns: Giving the community the ability to purchase tournament entries could lead to the involvement of whales who may not possess the requisite skills. This scenario could undermine the credibility of Illuvium's "world finals" if a poorly skilled player with substantial resources were to participate, creating a VERY unfavorable impression for the game's competitive integrity.

Defining the Esports Structure: It's also important to clarify the vision for Illuvium's future esports landscape. Questions arise regarding the presence of seasons, the frequency of official tournaments throughout the year, and the possibility of establishing different regional leagues. Before constructing the framework for a professional esports tournament, it is crucial to establish a solid foundation and determine the overall direction for Illuvium's competitive scene.

[azure dirge]

bigbrain idea

make it 12 weeks then @cyan frigate, I got your point, entry can t be sold imho

[cyan frigate]

I think 12 weeks is a perfect time frame. My only problem is 12 tournaments in 12 weeks IS SO MUCH WORK. Not to mention esports player burn out which we really need to try and avoid. This whole Idea could be done in four tournaments, two per month, with the top 3 of each tournament receiving the ticket. Gold/Silver/Bronze tickets could be given to 1st/2nd/3rd. Even if this isn't a good idea for competitive it could actually be a REALLY cool idea to build talent amongst the player base. It could be like a semi pro tournament for esports orgs to take a look at the upcoming prospects 🤔

[keen musk]

👀

[cyan frigate]

I'm actually going to write this down for sure and bring it up at a later date. This is actually such a genius idea for upcoming talent the more I think about it. TY for posting ser 🫡

[keen musk]

Will reply when I get back to my PC. I have a bunch of ideas. Talk to you later

[trail edge]

raise some real solid points here ser

[cyan frigate]

They don't call me the future Official Illuvium Esports commentator for nothing ser

[trail edge]

This sounds like a real sound idea!

maybe top 4 win entry from each of the 4 tourneys, to make top 16
(16 being a better number than 12 for brackets)

Or maybe @keen musk original idea is kept, 10 players, 1 from each month, they can even sell their entry, but in the last 2 months u hold bigger tourneys in the lead up to the FINALS, 4 tourneys as u say, 5 winners from 2 of them, 6 from the other 2, for a grand total of 32 finalists

only the 10 tickets are sellable, the rest are not, if some with low skill show up makes for good content, if some e-sports team buys a spot to put in their best player that just couldnt quite get there and then they take it home, its also possible, # content

(winning a ticket should also come with your flight, food and hotel costs being covered for you, so anyone that wins a ticket can make it regardless of finances)

(im totally spit balling here, but the ideas defo have legs)

[keen musk]

👀

[cyan frigate]

I really hate the idea of having the potential for amateurs any where close to an official game. It makes it come off as childish and unprofessional imo. This could lead to less revenue coming in as well. It forces more esports teams out of the ecosystem due to limiting the amount of actual pros in the tournament.

[trail edge]

I come from poker and the biggest tourney in the world is the WSOP and sometimes an amateur makes it to the final table and its always cool to have an underdog up there u can relate to and root for, even if they dont make it, and sometimes they do make it and even win 1st and its spectacular!

if an amateur is rich enough or lucky enough to get in then gg well played, e-sports teams need to up their game

and they can always pick that amateur up, or sponsor his shirt or whatever, idk im good w it

[elfin mist]

hmmm but that suit is then a tradeable NFT right? so one can participate in the main event just because they have money instead of having to effectively qualify? that would be really bad imo.

[glossy shell]

yeah, i disagree with the notion it should be tradeable but my idea is not the same as OPs, so didn't think it was important to delve into that here. But yeah, agreed, it should be soul-bound.

[elfin mist]

👌

[cyan frigate]

What did you think of my idea regarding using this idea to grow future talent in the form of like a "Semi pro" tournament for esports teams to scout new talent like proving grounds? I think under those circumstances making it a tradable NFT is fine. The best amateur players will get in and if they want they can sell the ticket.

[tulip karma]

this is good

[keen musk]

Player skill and longevity:
I agree with your statements above, the best might not be the best in 12 months. I really like the idea of @trail edge keeping the 10 months for a 1 of 1 suit/ ticket, making it tradeable. and then 2 months tournament finals not tradeable? this would create room for players who might want to train and be the best for one month.. i think once you have a suit/ticket you are not eligible for another, even if you sell your ticket. ( this is a tough one ) .

Play to Win- money comes with eyes if a ticket sells for 25k then that creates people wanting to try to be the best.

[elfin mist]

Well if we have millions of players, there is a need for such Semi-pro "Growing future talent" opportunities (like lower leagues of LOL)

But for now, the goal according to Kieran's most recent AMAs is having 100k players by the end of 2024. with such a playerbase, it just feels like "semi-pro" events are a waste of time and resources that will actually drive no viewership/engagement.

In such a playerbase, the top players will compete and the others will work hard in the hope to get there. Therefore i agree with having monthly tournaments that qualify for a biggest one, Even though i'd build an entire circuit with weeklies/monthlies and one tournament every Quarter and THEN the Worlds championships.

Just don't like the fact that you can bypass skill with money (if we make that ticket an NFT) to enter those tournaments.

[azure dirge]

no money to bypass skill 💯

[keen musk]

i agree with the you shouldnt be able to bypass skill with money but only 12 or 18 will be given out if the person with the skill wants to make a dollar in the nft space why not let them? i love the concept that everything is sellable or buyable .

[trail edge]

cool structure and good points

I'm not a huge fan of money to bypass skill, but I am okay with a limited % being tradeable so skilled players can capitalise if they choose and whales can sponsor their own player of choice or play themselves if they choose occasionally, defo not a hill id die on tho

In a space where everything is sellable @keen musk I do like the idea of some things which aren't, actually makes them more valuable in some ways

[elfin mist]

It's also important to note that in most games, "semi-pro" events are hosted and organized by 3rd party actors. Therefore, @cyan frigate 's specific idea can still be done, as long as it's not directly by Illuvium.

[azure dirge]

yeah..true @trail edge but in every tournament..even the amateur must ramp up the chip count to be into the final table.

you can t buy the final table ticket

[trail edge]

fair

[elfin mist]

Here's the problem: let's say there are only 16 seats.

and 10 out of those 16 players just sell it for 1M to some random whales that wants to show off in that event (or CONTENT CREATORS). You end up with the biggest tournament of the year with poor level players...

What a great marketing.

@trail edge yes this is web3 but no, not everything is about money. Money can't give you skill, and therefore shouldn't open you the door for the biggest tournament of the year.

[azure dirge]

we can think bout the "invitational" f ormat when sponsors pile up a good prize, and there we will invite only the top players (good for the audience too)

[elfin mist]

invitational formats are pure marketing tools. therefore the priority when choosing the players who participate is viewership and engagement. Look at the TFT Invitationals 100% of content creators 25% of content creators that don't even play TFT mainly.

[azure dirge]

we are built differently

[glossy shell]

i'd say keep it to qualifiers vs. invitationals personally, or make them different tournaments

[azure dirge]

sure...I said exactly that.

[glossy shell]

sorry, only saw a few messages up, trying to keep up with you guys while doing other work too lol.

[trail edge]

if there are 16 seats only then i would never want 10 to be sellable lol

[elfin mist]

well if they're all NFTs how do we control that?

[trail edge]

they arent NFTs, they can be account bound entries

but I guess thats still sellable technically, and now we get into web2 account selling issues all over again lol

[glossy shell]

I'll read up but just quickly, i'm still in the camp of the suits being non-transferable. This can be done as NFTs or just account bound. NFTs can be non-transferable with current EIP standards

[elfin mist]

so... what do you think of the idea of make monthly tournaments that reward you an armor, and that armor is the entry ticket for a bigger event?

I believe that's the initial idea and what we should be discussing xD

[glossy shell]

Yeah, don't want to get back into web2 account selling issues, so honestly just make it a non-transferable NFT lol.

This damn slowdown timer is killin me man.

[azure dirge]

yes @elfin mist that is the idea

[trail edge]

I responded that I agree w Jimbo's take that the idea has issues, I liked Jimbo's counter idea and also just spitballing suggested an idea that mixes the two

[elfin mist]

Yep so i'm fine about it, as long as the "armor" is not an NFT

[azure dirge]

well technically the armor someday..will be an NFT heheheh

[trail edge]

defo harder to sell a seed phrase when it comes w trusting the other person doesnt use it themselves lol

[azure dirge]

but you can program the nft...so no big issue

[elfin mist]

If it becomes one, after the said big event... why not. It then becomes an item made to flex that you were in the X tournament. If people wanna sell such item, why not, i don't mind

[glossy shell]

can't really prevent any means of transfer i guess but just in general non-transferable NFTs would be the route i'd go; but also it may not be a horrible idea to work out some kind of way to where it can be transferable after the event as a collectable. Like people today in IRL sports collect jerseys and stuff from retired athletes.

Basically what Zep just said while i was typing lol.

[azure dirge]

ye..dnft

[glossy shell]

We would just want it to be soul-bound to the player who actually qualifies for the tournament and not just whoever has the deepest pockets buying their way into it. That's bad for competitive quality and will make broadcasting of it a joke.

[elfin mist]

💯

[azure dirge]

🍞

[trail edge]

agree

[elfin mist]

Only @manic plover can send that to me xD

[azure dirge]

I have his permission 🫡

[elfin mist]

👌

[keen musk]

Can we make this channel where we can up vote comments plz

some very valid points in this discussion 🙂

[rotund vale]

The most complicated part is being able to sell your ticket. For the most part I agree with the freedom to do whatever you want with your assets but the risk of having 12 really terrible competitors in a large tournament because they paid money is one that needs to be considered

[keen musk]

👀

[manic plover]

I love where the idea is coming from, thanks for raising this up @keen musk !

Even though we are currently in beta, I believe user retention still plays a significant role. It allows us to conduct better tests and generate more activity and sustained excitement around the project as a whole. Organizing frequent events or tournaments in the arena would be incredibly useful and enjoyable.

Here are a couple of concerns that need to be addressed:

1) Monetary Concern: Arena doesn't have any reward from the "ingame reward" because being in private beta it wouldn't be eligible to everyone. The proposed idea suggests implementing a prize pool. However, due to the nature of the entry requirements for the tournament, not everyone would be eligible to participate and contribute to the prize pool. Unless we reconsider this aspect, we won't be able to have a prize pool for the tournament.

I believe the reward doesn't have to be substantial for the concept to positively affect user retention, activity/hype, and a sense of being rewarded for participating in the beta while engaging in meaningful competition. I particularly like the idea of a ranger skin (or even a mozart skin). It can be created 'for free' but could accumulate value over time and would certainly be valuable for the deserving winners themselves.

Another idea for a free reward could be a temporary role on Discord. Since all active arena players are on Discord, who wouldn't want to flex their "King of the Hill" role for 2-4 weeks?! It could be similar to the trivia master role we currently have.

2) Effectiveness Concern: Since the launch of pb1, we have observed various types of activity, with an overall declining pattern but occasional spikes around updates and community tournaments. Just before the recent patch of Arena 2.5, the number of active users was barely higher than the number of places on the leaderboard. During these past few months of quite low participation, we saw the impact of tournaments, which didn't have a substantial effect apart from bringing back a group of players for just that specific day.

In the first half of the arena life span, one aspect that greatly contributed to user retention, competitiveness, overall activity, and fun in the game was the IlluvialMaster leaderboard. It was a fantastic free reward! Just seeing your name move up or down against your friends and rivals was enough to make you addicted and play far more than you intended to. Guilds and communities fought against each other to represent themselves, while individuals fought hard to achieve the best daily score and be the famous winner of the given month.

I propose implementing a cumulative leaderboard system instead of a single time event / tournament and have the rewards in the form of skin NFTs and a role similar to the current trivia master.

[odd sand]

Very cool idea.
What if one person gets five armours and they don't sell?

[manic plover]

It cant be rewards from the ingame reward ILV, thats why i proposed those ''free'' rewards stated above.

Unlike Illuvitars, arena is in closed beta and not accessible to all. This is the reason why it cant start to get some rewards like the illuvium beyond leaderboard.

[manic plover]

With the idea of skins/armor as rewards to place in a future bigger tournament i believe it would be best if they are tradable only after the event as some people said in the discussion.

[junior harness]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-im-positive-my-cousin-vinny-marisa-tomei-gif-14771221

[rain junco]

If new skins, etc. are difficult, maybe something like a title would be good.
Titles that can be used in-game are preferable, but just getting a ranker title in the discord is motivating.
This will be more valuable if it cannot be bought or sold.

[safe trench]

Might aswell turn this into UFC contender series. Pick your candidates, either through voting or through a tournament, split them into 2 teams with different coaches, put them in a gaming house and make them compete and train for an event 6-12 months into the future. You can make vlogs about pretty much anything, the teams training, eating, hobbies, player interaction, make them play some fun games outside of illuvium like team building, etc. That way there is gonna be content throughout the full year, not just once per month for tournaments and keep people engaged. Can be also a foundation for the following esport scene.

Regarding rewards, teams/players will either be on a budget/salary working towards the final prize or you can introduce something like championship points earned by watching on Twitch/Youtube, which the viewer can later spend on in-game items and cosmetics, correlated to the team or player they are a fan of. Then these spent championship points can go back to the respective teams, for example the viewer spent 100 championship points to buy a limited XBorg or Polemos or whatever "suit", these 100 points go to the XBorg team.

At the end of the season, separately from the final tournament rewards, each team would be able to convert their championship points to ILV, 10:1 / 100:1 / 1000:1 or at any ratio the team deems viable. That way both the players and viewers get to earn things, ontop of being engaged in the game and community.

[carmine summit]

Bring it.
Ethlizards x XBorg ready to go anytime.

[torpid marsh]

🙂