Thinking sustainable game rewards.

[cloud jacinth]

Thinking sustainable game rewards.

The current game rewards are ILV and this is finite, so if you pay too much, it will run out fast, and if you pay too little, the game will lose its appeal!
OW PVP, I think it is possible to reward in these two games and maybe Survival Mode too.

My ideas are

1. 50% of the sILV2 used in the game is distributed as a reward, the remaining 50% is burnt.
   Reward 50% of the sILV2 used to the top 1-50 on the leaderboard daily. (Expand to about 100-200 places in the future)

For example, if one game costs 5$.
If you play 10,000 times, you have 50,000$ of ETH or sILV2.
If sILV2 was 20,000$, 50% of that amount, 10,000$, would be the daily reward depending on the ranking.

My understanding is that staking rewards were supposed to end in during 2025, after which the only rewards for stakers would be Revdis.
※Please point out if I'm wrong.
If sILV2 is used as a reward, it will be zero in the future if it is all used after the end of staking.

So here's another idea.
As soon as the ILV staking reward system is finished, staking V3 is created with Immutable zkEVM and the staker is issued a Revdis+sILV2 staking reward.

The balance of sILV2 staking rewards is particularly important, because if you give out big rewards here, there will be too much sILV2 and no one will play with ETH. sILV2 staking rewards should be 1% or less.
The sILV2 should always be depleted.

Those staking in V2 will still receive their rewards in Revdis, but if they want the sILV2 staking rewards, they will need to move to V3.

I think it would be more beneficial for smaller ILV stakers to make it with Immutable zkEVM, including the future cost of gas.
That could also lead to a demand for ILV staking!

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I don't know what Survival Mode will look like in the future, but I think this could also be applied, training mode could be free and you could hone your skills there, take 5$ etc. for competitive and pay 50% of that sILV2 as a daily reward.

But if we give out rewards as it is now, it would be easy to cheat, so we would need a system to prevent that from happening!
I've written about it here as an idea, but it can be done in other ways too.
#1101490899537625108 message

We decided on daily rewards because if we did monthly rewards or 3 months per season, the pros would probably dominate the top positions and I didn't know if that would help to increase the number of users.
Like in poker, you can beat the pros once, but when you play it tens or hundreds of times, there is a clear difference, so I felt that daily rewards would be better.
And I don't think there are many people who can play every day, if you concentrate and work hard on that day, if you have the chance, you might increase the number of users.

It would be nice if there was a free to play OW and PVP mode to hone your skills!
It would be great if the game could be enjoyed by both those who want to enjoy the game for free and those who are looking for rewards!

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sILV2 rewards for what DAOs receive in Staking V3.

1. burn
2. put into safety pool (exchange into ETH or USDC)
3. distribute evenly to about 1-100 positions each month (in the future, if the scale grows, expand to about 300 positions).
   (The reason we distribute it evenly is because we want to eliminate the groups that will monopolise it, and we want to increase the number of users by distributing sILV2 to more users,and we reduce the pressure to sell and the top players should be able to earn enough money from the daily rewards, so there's no point in making the rewards bigger here.)

For example, if ILV of $300,000,000 is staked, of which the DAO receives 20% of the sILV2, even 1%.
If there is a 50,000$/month sILV2 reward to be distributed to the top 100 x3 (OW PVP Survival), you will receive 166.6$/month
※It is DAO sILV2 that is given out, not $, so the numbers are always changing.
Burning will increase the scarcity value of sILV2, or if we give that back to users, we will get more users.

If 300,000,000$ of ILV are staked, the 1% staking reward for sILV2 is 250,000$/month.
If the number of users increases, I don't see any problem with this amount of sILV2 in circulation.
The balance between supply and demand is important, and if there is demand for ILV2, OW, PVP, Survival and illuvitars, we think we can digest this amount of sILV2.
If sILV2 is always depleted, you'll be playing with ETH, so stakers can expect Revdis rewards and an additional 1% sILV2 bonus.

50% of sILV2 will be burnt, but there is no doubt that it will continue to increase, so sILV2 reward should be determined within a sustainable range.

Countermeasures can be taken by reducing the staking reward to zero once and creating a deflationary situation.

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In making staking V3, ILV/ETH should be abolished, LP is too risky and can be like sILV1, so it is better to abolish this, while those who remain in V2 can keep it.

If you make a V3 with Immutable zkEVM, the user would have to use UNISWAP to trade sILV2.
Another idea is to make it possible to buy and sell in the IMX marketplace.

However, in this case, if sILV2 is not depleted, almost all users will buy and play there, and ETH will not be consumed, which will affect the Revdis, so it has to be considered carefully, although it would be easier and better for the users...
※If we buy and sell on the marketplace, will we be able to sell at Chainlink's real-time prices?
If we can only buy and sell at a fixed price, we would have to make a separate one.
or maybe there is no problem if the user cancels it themselves?

I don't know if what I've written here will work. so if you have a better idea, that's fine.
I'll just give you an idea and let the council members and the team work out what to do with it.

If you use the method described here, you can use your existing game rewards for other things.
For example, you could organise frequent competitions and use the rewards as ILV.

I'm writing this on the assumption that the number of users will increase, if the demand for sILV2 is quite high, we might be able to increase the staking reward to 2-3%, then the daily reward will be even higher, which would be a good thing to get more users.

Probably in 2025, when we are playing the beta, there won't be any games released that still offer game rewards.
I hope that people will have thought a lot about sustainable game rewards until then.

※Please don't worry about my English being wrong, it's all the translation software's fault!
Sorry the text is a bit long.

[cloud jacinth]

If we have a significant surplus of sILV2 at the start of the game, so in that case it might be better to delay the staking of V3 and start after some sILV2 is gone.

[stray oyster]

While sILV and sILV2 have served well to provide exit liquidity the reality is that, other than public launch being well after the majority of token unlocks, sILV2 has been the most significant problem that the DAO has faced. sILV2 must be done away with as soon as possible. Once yield farming ends sILV2 should never be minted again. And it should certainly all be burnt when used.

There’s nothing too difficult in regards to funding in-game rewards with ILV beyond the 1million tokens set aside for that purpose, especially if the DAO isn’t hobbling itself by giving away infinitely revolving amounts of it’s potential revenue.

x.x% of the ILV the DAO earns as revdis simply does not get turned into eth to pay expenses, but instead goes to an in-game rewards vault. In this way the DAO limits the potential loss of revenue. There is a known percentage of eth lost at the time of revdis instead of sILV2 potentially replacing untold quantities of future eth revenue.

[cloud jacinth]

I see. surely that method would be a sustainable reward as the number of users increases.
I hadn't thought about that at all.
My last two days have been a complete waste. hahaha🤣
Thank you!

[stray oyster]

Never a waste

[cloud jacinth]

🙏

[cloud jacinth]

OK I have new idea.
20% of ETH spent on game rewards.
This means that the rewards received by the staker in Revdis will be -20%.
but by increasing the game rewards to 20%, the number of users will increase and the ETH used will be considerably higher, resulting in a much higher reward for the staker.

About the game rewards, we give them in ETH, not change to ILV.
If it can be sent directly to the IMX wallet, that's fine, and if it can be implemented in the illuvium game, that's better!
Revdis receive ILV as it is on V2.

For the 20% game reward, it does not go to the safety pool.

Perhaps what I write here could be applied to illuvitars.
It may not benefit you much now, when there are plenty of sILV2s left, but you can expect more rewards in the long run.
And there is a possibility to increase the rewards from the current 100th place to around 300th place in the future.

[stray oyster]

20% seems massive. It would be significantly higher than the amount the treasury would be receiving in order to fund operations.

20% would be like 1 in 5 players getting their payments returned to them.

Maybe you will be able to find support for the idea. There are probably plenty of players that want to get bankrolled.

Also… why not give rewards as ILV as has always been Illuvium’s plan?

[cloud jacinth]

Hi my teacher.
I don't have a particular preference for numbers.
I just thought the bigger the better the impact.
So 10% is also fine, as long as it's sustainable and attractive to users, and that's for the team to think, it is OK.

Are there any advantages to IVL for rewards?
What do you think it would be easier to give back to the game if you got ETH for using user ETH?
In this case, ILV would not have to be sold, so selling pressure would be removed.

How effective is ETH in buying up ILV?
If buying ILV with ETH would raise the price of ILV, that should also be considered.

[stray oyster]

It would work like the revdis protocol. The eth revenue is used to buy ILV. Causing the ILV price to go up. Those ILV get distributed. If all of this happened in isolation and ALL of those ILV are sold by those that receive them then the overall impact or the ILV price would be zero, no price change.

[remote coral]

If you touch the ETH part though, some people might get really upset since you're directly affecting their revdis.

[cloud jacinth]

I see.
I thought If they sell the ILV of the reward, the ILV might go down, but this is not.

What if, for example, this reward was a daily?
I think ETH is easy to calculate, but it would be very cumbersome if you had to change it to ILV and then distribute it again, what about that?

[cloud jacinth]

I'm staking a lot, but I think if you explain it properly, they'll understand.
The more users you have, the more you get reward even if Revdis is reduced by 10%.

[remote coral]

I wish everyone would think like you, but that's just unfortunately not the case.

[stray oyster]

The blockchain devs have/had been working on an automated process for revdis. If successful I’d think it would not be too bad. Possibly just one more step. A team dev would have an informed response.

[cloud jacinth]

It's very good to make it automatic, certainly manual is limiting.🤣

I think it goes more smoothly if we think of Revdis as Revdis and game rewards as game rewards.
90% ETH will be exchanged for ILV, so even if the remaining 10% remains in ETH, the purchase of ILV by the Revdis will increase the price.

And if I were a player, I'd be happier to get rewards in ETH.
I think we also need to consider the needs of our users.
And the ETH you receive will be used in the game again.
It might be a good to take a survey.