#Agile beta testing Idea

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

jolly pier
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I'd like to express my concerns about the recent Roadmap, specifically the short time between Arena Private Beta 3 and Open Beta Launch, and share some suggestions for improvement.

Comparing to games like TFT, which undergo a month of open beta testing with DAILY updates, our current plan might not provide enough time for thorough balancing. Although PvP tournaments are scheduled to start six months post-launch, I believe having three months of beta testing with more frequent updates and feedback is required. (compared to the regularity of updates we saw in Arena PB 1 & 2) Considering the impact a game's launch has on player retention and the growing pool of beta testers, I believe that iterating a more agile beta testing model moving forward should be a priority.

To address these concerns, I propose the following initiatives:

Launcher for Streamlined Update Deployment 💻 :
Implement a proper launcher system, which was already planned, before Arena PB3 to simplify update deployment and provide players easy access to the latest content. This will:

-Expedite the deployment of updates, hotfixes, and new content
-Allow testers to access the most recent game version, resulting in more accurate and up-to-date feedback

Efficient Feedback Loop ➿ :
Hire a dedicated team specialised in user experience and feedback analysis to streamline the feedback process. This will allow us to:

-Quickly identify and resolve critical issues and bugs
-Gain valuable insights into player preferences, game balance and gameplay mechanics
-Help maintaining open communication with testers

Conclusion Illuvium_Logo :
While these initiatives require financial investment and there have been recent concerns about runway, I still believe that the long-term benefits of a more agile feedback and update deployment process are well worth it. I believe streamlining these aspects of our development process before Arena PB3 starts will enable us to meet the ambitious deadlines for Arena PB3 and the Public Beta Launch, ensuring our game stands out in the competitive gaming market.

I'm eager to hear your thoughts on these proposals and engage in further discussion. By working together, we can create a game that demonstrates the power of a truly player-centric, community-driven development process. Let's remember to stay on topic and treat each other with respect during these discussions. #OneTeamOneFight

Thank you for considering my suggestions. Atlas_Love

spring heron
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Isn't the balancing gona be done with an algo and not players feedback?

frigid iron
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I have said it a million times but PVP is the most important aspect of the game currently. Delaying open beta for this if needed sucks but has to be done if needed. This could quite literally make or break the long term success of this incredible game. The argument of "we need to spend the most time working on getting to open beta rather than constant updates to PVP" should not apply as PVP is the most important driving force in the games long term success and it should be treated as a number 1 priority over everything else. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

lusty basin
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There might be 6 months in between Open Beta and PB3...

Although you ideas sound good, I'm not a fan of explaining professionals how to do their job. If they think this is the best way of doing it - I trust them.

frigid iron
# lusty basin There might be 6 months in between Open Beta and PB3... Although you ideas soun...

This isn't really a "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!" post it's more of a "These are my thoughts what do you guys think and what am I missing with the information I have presented". I don't want to speak for @jolly pier but I would like to help the team in anyway that I can even if I'm not the most intelligent about this topic. For the most part I trust the team to make the game as good as possible because they are all incredible.

lusty basin
low sage
frigid iron
low sage
# lusty basin That's my bad then. What I was thinking while reading this is that this is a su...

Agree, imo this isn’t something that needs to be passed as an IIP to “force” anything, more of to start a discussion around it, maybe its something the team has already planned or they have different plans but would love to hear how they plan to iterate in a more regular and agile manner than in the betas we have seen so far as with the limited time constraints imo PvP needs that

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Curious what devs thoughts on this are @ivory solstice @solar knot

lusty basin
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I think it's silly to talk about "we need more improvements" now. That's something we can talk about a month before the launch if we don't feel the game is ready for the launch. But like I said, there might be 6 months of testing and updating the game and we will be ready for the launch.

But I do agree with the vision of more small updates more often. I think that would also push people to play and test the game more.

low sage
# lusty basin I think it's silly to talk about "we need more improvements" now. That's someth...

I mean better to hire people to decrease any friction and increase the frequency of iterations before hand rather than in hindsight delay things because we didnt right?

In past beta testing we have seen that the speed of updates is already there and is perfect, devs have told us they are usually already 10 builds ahead, this is the issue which is solved by having the launcher so that new builds can just be given immediately to testers so their reporting is up to date and the other friction we saw was devs months later saying they never even received a piece of feedback, this is solved by the extra hires specialising in this and even if this isn’t a huge issue its something that will defo be needed post launch, some people on the team specialising in feedback aggregation there to best communicate needed feedback to right places(who knows maybe the launcher is all thats needed, but generally less friction + more regular iteration = more efficient development) and to me it seems worth at least discussing

Thats my 2 cents anyways, will leave for others to discuss also 😊

spring heron
low sage
spring heron
# low sage they've already said numerous times that they've already fixed UI issues we've r...

Agree, having a launcher for all the organizing stuff, delivering patches, player convenience etc. probably would help a Lot. But i guess there are reasons why it isn't pushed more? Don't saw many Info at all about launcher, so idk 😅

But Like, there wouldn't be patches more often, just because the launcher is ready, right? Like the patch they Make, is pretty much the Same work to put in launcher or put on homepage, no?

frigid iron
spring heron
low sage
spring heron
low sage
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Launcher = You can update without re-downloading the game
No Launcher = lots of dev work to re-package and create a new download etc plus testers needing to keep re-downloading (its a mess to do frequent updates this way which is why we dont get frequent updates, but then devs dont get frequent up to date feedback either...)

frigid iron
low sage
spring heron
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aAfter hearing this, having launcher really seems to be very important in a game in developement.

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Launcher isn't actually on the roadmap, he gets deployed with pb3 maybe?

frigid iron
low sage
spring heron
# low sage hopefully

I feel Like, they rather focused to get core mechanics done for all 3 Games, and intended to focus on launcher when they are implemented in the private betas, so they have human ress. free for developping launcher and Update from all the feedback they already got, and will get in future. AT least sounds Like a logical process order to me... Like, thats what i would do.
There's actually no point in having continuously Updates, if you anyways focussing with the whole team to get the core mechanics done, right?

pliant ingot
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I like the idea but maybe faster, more efficient feedback and easier updates arent as much of a benefit if they dont have enough devs speed up the work anyway.

PVP is really the core of illuvium and the most important aspect but i feel they cant go much faster because theres not that many devs and its hard to get good devs in the space.

low sage
low sage
spring heron
pliant ingot
low sage
jolly pier
# pliant ingot You are right, the energy bug fixed and 12 hours but still there 2-3months after...

yeah there's been too much of these occurences where we report bugs to devs and the response is like: oh yeah we know we fixed it in our version 3 weeks ago... Making that we have the beta we can play it but most likely all of our feedback gets irrelevant after a week or two.

But the devs have said multiple times either on discord, AMAs or even in the Devblogs that "they are aiming at more frequent updates" and that a Launcher is being worked on. Making that the only reason i've included the launcher in this discussion is because the launcher doesn't appear in the Roadmap but is still key for the 2nd part of the idea.

And Vetemor did read very well my intents, safe mate for that. In fact this is not meant to be an IIP at any point to force anyone to do anything. Just engaging the discussion about a topic that concerns me and the possible solutions to those concerns =).

Thank you everyone for your feedback and discussions very interesting to read so far. Atlas_Love

ivory solstice
# low sage Curious what devs thoughts on this are <@781855879741308938> <@15070611487745638...

We are already building this but balance at launch is not as critical a concern as other things like security of assets and the fuel pool integration.

It will still be a beta so there are expected to be some bugs. This means tournaments need to be delayed (most likely).

Id rather delay tournaments than the whole game.

Do people really think delaying the entire thing to improve balance is required?

This all assumes balance won’t be great at launch, which might not be an issue.

frigid iron
# ivory solstice We are already building this but balance at launch is not as critical a concern ...

I am worried it could leave a bad first impression on a potential new active player base. With Illuvium already being an NFT game it seems like this could have a compounding effect as obviously the sentiment for gamers around blockchain technology is not good. Maybe I am still letting all of the recent FUD get to me but in the same way that people will take the time lines you have given as set in stone dates I think the players first impression of PVP at open beta might impact their vision of Illuvium forever and that would really fucking suck. Again, definitely possible I'm overthinking/not realizing that's not how gamers think.

low sage
# ivory solstice We are already building this but balance at launch is not as critical a concern ...

I agree that some balancing for sure can be done post-launch and that delaying tourneys is a good idea.
I'm more concerned in there being minimal iterations of PvP regarding aspects outside of just balancing
Launcher at least would seem to at least assist with the iteration and feedback loop being completed more often leading to a better product overall thats maximally enjoyable for the player and will be more engaging on launch
(maybe im wrong there, correct me if I am)
so that on launch we have to really only worry about some additional balancing and little else apart from minor bugs and optimisations

5% more player retention can lead to as much as 20-95% more revenue for a game...

ivory solstice
low sage
ivory solstice
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There is an interim solution.

low sage
# ivory solstice There is an interim solution.

okay, guess we'll find out, if you say this isn't necessary I wont doubt you, you certainly know more than I do on what the plans are and whats possible, look forward to watching it unfold

jolly pier
ivory solstice