[Updated] IIP-XX Add Alpha Stamp on Illuvitar Image

[languid tundra]

Simple Summary
Many members of the community have expressed a desire for Alpha Illuvitars to include a visual indication of the Illuvitar's Alpha status within the Illuvitar artwork. This proposal would direct the Illuvium team to update the artwork of alpha Illuvitars to include an alpha stamp.

Overview
Alpha Illuvitars are meant to be the most exclusive Illuvitars due to their limited nature but they are visually indistinguishable from the non-alpha Illuvitars. Adding the stamp to the Illuvitar image adds value for those who are looking for exclusive collectibles in the Illuvium Universe.

Benefits
-Makes alphas unique when purchasing Illuvitar prints.
-Allows people to flex the alpha status of their Illuvitar when using it as a PFP.
-Further differentiates Alpha Illuvitars from non-alphas to solidify exclusivity of alphas

In summary, adding an alpha stamp onto the Illuvitar images is a value add for those who have purchased Alpha Disks and increases the overall collectability of Illuvitars.

Written by: @narrow estuary
CC: <@&814435151307866142>

[topaz lichen]

Thanks @narrow estuary and @languid tundra for spearheading this.

[narrow estuary]

Hey guys!

There has been a lot of great input already on potential implementations for this and I have attached a couple examples from the #ideas channel discussion for reference here.

The first 2 images are showing a potential 'stamp' that could be added, visible on both light and dark backgrounds and translucent so they dont visually interfere too much with any accessories that might be placed behind them.

Some other community members suggested signatures, overlays, or borders (also pictured) to denote the alpha status instead of a stamp.

The purpose of this IIP is to direct the creation of SOME kind of visual indicator of alpha status within the Illuvitar art. I think it would be best to let the final decision of how this is implemented be determined by Illuvium's excellent art team so try not to get too hung up on any particular style presented here.

I do think it would be really cool for the art team to produce a couple options and send them back for community feedback, but thats an issue for after this IIP passes.

[halcyon sand]

The only concern for me is the technical implementation. I don't know the way this stuff works well enough to assume the best path forward. But if it were to go on top of the art then millions more images would need to be rendered? If they can just place the alpha stamp in the ui itself then that seems easy enough. But how does that interact with other apis and marketplaces that are pulling this information

If I had to pick one of the options to use. Then something as discreet as possible makes sense to me. The alpha symbol but it feels reminiscent of signed artwork. Just the A in the corner somewhere and on some art it's barely noticeable and on others it's more obvious. Kind of like a subtle watermark

[narrow estuary]

The idea here is to have it added directly to the artwork so that its not just part of the UI. Right now one of the issues is that on other marketplaces there is no indicator of alpha status without digging deep into the metadata.

It being part of the UI also means that its not visible when using it as a PFP or when saving or printing the image. Since collectors have paid a significant premium for the alpha status of their Illuvitars, I think its reasonable to want that alpha status to be displayed in a visible way whenever they use their Illuvitar.

This would also be more in line with the way that Alphas were marketed to the community. It clearly states on the website that "each alpha Illuvitar and accessory is stamped with an alpha icon to indicate its rarity". To me this sounds like something that would be part of the actual Illuvitar image, not just a metadata indicator.

Myself and many others were quite disappointed to find that there is not any actual 'stamp' or visual indicator of any kind on the Illuvitar image.

[turbid ginkgo]

If its only a technical concern rendering million images then maybe make it optional. For example an alpha illuvitar can be just like the bonding mechanism build into the optical alpha version. Those who dont want that dont have to do it

[languid tundra]

I would like hear what @zinc crane and @rose arrow think about this, maybe they have a better Idea of how to implement something that they think would be a version of this that works best for the team as well

[zinc crane]

i think it should be way more subtle and perhaps even not as apparent.
I would be hard against a STAMP on the art. its already very busy, and will block the 'art'.

An UI effect of a shimmer going over the illuvitar once every 30 seconds or something , id be way more in favor of.

[uneven flame]

I like that. Just wondering how that would be done on printed examples to show their alphas or if that’s just shown on the backside maybe

[zinc crane]

could be on the backside of a printed version, yep.

Showing it in other places on the internet will be more difficult, but that is going to be difficult with everything.

[stray pumice]

A clear shimmer or some kind of vfx on the border which doesn't impact the art would be great in my opinion

[narrow estuary]

The issue I have with any kind of UI effect is that its once again going to be something thats only visible on the Illuvium website.

Whats being proposed here is an addition to the actual art so that there is an indicator of alpha status when viewing your Illuvitars anywhere OUTSIDE of the Illuvium website.

[stray pumice]

Something that shows straight away "wow that's an alpha" when you come up against a person in PVP or somewhere else in the illuvium ecosystem (leaderboards etc.) with a rare illuvitar pfp.

[zinc crane]

Dont get it the wrong way, but i care for the art and for the illuvium eco system - what you do outside of it.. i just dont really care :/ i dont mean to be harsh, other team members might have a completely different view 😛

[paper fern]

Agree with the underlying importance of distinguishing Alpha from Regular base set Illuvitars. Also agree with keeping it subtle, but I don’t think we can avoid it being somewhere on the artwork, because if selling on different marketplaces is possible in the future it has to be apparent to distinguish. Noone wants to fumble through metadata to discover if something is a 1st edition.

[zinc crane]

my job and hope is to make it look as good as we can inside of this ecosystem.

[stray pumice]

In PVP, overworld, leaderboards etc. Will there be a way to see a PFP is in alpha without somehow clicking it and going into the data on the illuvidex for it?

[zinc crane]

for example if there was a shimmer going over the portrait yeh, that would be a small piece of vfx that could be implemented everywhere within Illuvium**

[stray pumice]

In your opinion would the shimmer be better than something like a vfx border linked by Scoot?

[zinc crane]

no way 😛

you will have a border

so, everything there, wont work

[halcyon sand]

Yeah I agree this makes sense but technical implementation will just take time I suppose. Best to do it before wave 2 though obviously

[narrow estuary]

I do get the desire from the artists to keep the art 'clean' and not obstruct it but from a consumer perspective people paid a very significant premium specifically for the alpha status. While I love the art, if I was ONLY concerned about the art I wouldn't have purchased alpha disks with the exact same art for 5x the cost.

From a collectability standpoint having the indicator be visible and part of the artwork is what makes Alphas different from non-alphas, and I think showing off that 'flex' of having an alpha is actually more important than a minor interference with the art.

[zinc crane]

https://tenor.com/view/sparkling-teeth-chip-skylark-shiny-teeth-fairly-odd-parents-clean-teeth-gif-23883140

i think more towards the look of the above.. hard to visualize perhaps 😂

[muted bone]

I believe that there should be some visual representation beyond just what appears on Illuvium UI pages. These things have value outside of Illuvium and a visual indication of first edition really should be more apparent

[glossy iris]

100% agreed, Illuvitar art will be imported and used in many applications, the treatment of alpha staus may be different in each case, or entirely optional to the user.

[lucid spruce]

My only feedback would be that I'd prefer the wording to be "Visual indicator" instead of "Stamp". I agree that the alpha status of an Illuvitar needs a visual component, but I'd prefer to leave it to the team to determine what that visual component is. The art is already fantastic, and there ARE circumstances where a stamp specifically could detract. Otherwise, I'm in favour - Alphas being a premium product means they need to be identifiable as such.

[full kite]

I think if it delays any other project development then we don't do this. If it has 0% impact on finishing other projects then hey, why not

[zinc crane]

ill stop working out of protest ;D

[muted bone]

If we were so concerned about the art and not the value or exclusivity, then we shouldn't have had alpha discs to begin with. the art is the same between alpha vs non-alpha. I believe at least a stamp should be on there to distinguish the difference better

[stark anvil]

We make a badge alpha accessory that can only be bonded on Alpha Illuvitars?

[pulsar cloud]

I fully support the proposal. I personally thought alphas were going to include this in some way. When I found out illuvitars were exactly the same my appreciation for alphas diminished and I have now sold most of them. If this gets implemented I will try to buy them back

[zinc crane]

yeah right ;D

[stark anvil]

I also have to say that I don't like it as a stamp in the corner. If you're using it as a PFP most of the profile pictures are rounded up a bit and therefore it would be cut off. If not as an prop, I would like to have an overlay in front of the background and behind Illuvitar. Something subtle, but visible.

[turbid ginkgo]

Yes the stamp example looks shit i would not want that

[pulsar cloud]

Yes, it will make alphas more "alphas" and to me that is exactly the point and why I was willing to pay x5 for them

[turbid ginkgo]

But like a border or the alpha image in the background on 20% transparancy

[stray pumice]

Something subtle but instantly recognisable as an alpha, doesn't take away from the art - a shimmer every few seconds could fit that criteria

[zinc crane]

What if you have the Alpha, you get a massive A in the middle of ur portrait so you know exactly that you have the Alpha and everyone can see the A ? 🙂

[golden breach]

This makes the the alpha indicator an optional addition to the art in much the same way that a clown nose is an optional addition to the art.

There’s even then the possibility of adding a couple of alpha visualization options.

It’s certainly added work. But it would be less than adding any other accessories.

[stark anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/letter-a-dancing-gif-9063745

[turbid ginkgo]

Dont be an A man were just brainstorming here

[muted bone]

Or what if we charge 5 times the price for the exact same product!

both arguments are silly!

[zinc crane]

yeah that hasnt been told to you 5 times before the sale? 😂

sorry im too tired for this discussion , ill get back to it tomorrow! Gn ya'll have fun!

[edgy sapphire]

Make the location of the Alpha Mark editable
-You should be able to choose either from different pre-set options of where to place this tag or be able to freely move the alpha tag on any illuvitar you own and if you sell it that person can then change the position

Why?
-The reason I say this is because PFP images on many platforms are round and the corners of a square image are not visible in the PFP (e.g discord or twitter)

Animated Shimmer or Glow
-I get the suggestion of an animated shimmer and imo its a great additional idea to add to make them more clear in the illuvidex UI and in-game but I dont see why also a stamp is an issue, maybe make it optional and up to the person

Why give the option?
-I actually think that most people will put the stamp on just to take a screenshot to use on other platforms but for within the illuvium ecosystem they choose to leave it stampless because a VFX or border glow or something makes it clear anyways

But we dont want people taking screenshot to use on other platforms, screenshotting is jank and we're a pro project
-Then lets facilitate peoples process in having a their PFP usable externally...

How?
-Small option like capture for external platform which takes you into a simple UI that lets you adjust where you might want a stamp, or even not have a stamp but also gives the option to download the full max quality JPEG of your illuvitar, simple and clean UI, for external platform use, let people decide how they want people to see their stuff

**as for "wont this require additional rendering?" **
-Why would it, the art is already rendered, this is just being added on top, this is super easy to pull off, im sure it could be built and added in a day (with a few days of testing and fiddling extra if needed)

[uneven flame]

Sounds like this just delayed everything by 2 years

[stark anvil]

I don't know what the difference between Illuvium adding the overlay and you adding the overlay. Anyone can do it and pretend they have a Alpha. I don't think it's that much about other platforms as much it is for Illuvium.

[slim raft]

I think if we set goals and requirements that would be most helpful. Let the team decide how to implement.

Mine would be(in order):

• A distinction over extended wave
• Visible on circle PfPs
• Visible on other marketplaces
• Least amount of effort by the team

[zinc crane]

Super easy to pull off?
Alright men, if u can help - please install photoshop, lets get it done! but make sure you dont block any of those expensive t5 st3 accessories with ur Stamp. I can guarentee you already that there is no standard place we can put a stamp and it wouldnt block something. The extra testing and fiddling.. its just cant. all the portraits now, are too diverse,, and theres hundreds more coming. OR we accept that it is going to overlap on 'important' parts or 'accessories' .. and im sure that will open another can of discussion worms.

[uneven flame]

Rogiers idea of a shimmer/glow showing over the portrait in the Illuvium ecosystem is a smart way of doing it imo. They’ve built their own marketplace so why would they consider doing something for other platforms sake?

[glossy iris]

i thought you were going to bed 😉

[ivory heron]

let's be honest... it's kinda upsetting to think that we will have the exact same pfp with NO differenciation from people who paid theirs for 5x less. i was actually expecting the alpha stamp to be somewhere on the corner of the image rather than just a research filter on IMX

[ivory heron]

i love this approach btw

[zinc crane]

i am now, before i read more! gn

[desert grail]

Make the Alpha tag some what opaque?

[simple warren]

non dev ppl will always ask for more xD gn

[edgy sapphire]

what im suggesting is a week work for 2 devs max, maybe im just stupid and unaware of how shit works but i dont think so (i hope)

charging 5x extra for a product and making it artificially scarce should at least come with something to differentiate that thing, especially when the product is a "PFP" and the target audience for the 5x priced stuff is crypto people, maybe provide them some value so they dont just feel like "why not sell this and just buy the same exact thing 5x cheaper, will look the same and no one knows the difference"

@zinc crane then dont do a standard place, make it a seperate UI (like an instagram filter) and let people position it themselves...

It doesnt even have to be on the blockchain, just an overlay optional filter

I'm not saying help other platforms sell your stuff, im saying part of the utility of the product (especially when its worth thousands) is that you can flex it on other platforms as your PFP and online identity, lets not facilitate that and leave people to photoshop it themselves? why?

[simple warren]

that's the the advantage of physical things, ppl won't expect them to change xD

[normal kernel]

I for sure didn't expect the Alphas to look different given what has been communicated.

[narrow estuary]

Yeah I like this approach. Will include something like this on the V2 draft.

[formal bobcat]

Well if it's not on the blockchain that defeats all of the arguments that it's only visible on the Illuvidex and a animated overlay would be a lot better than a icon

[edgy sapphire]

agree on the order of priority

[uneven flame]

Same here. I didn’t expect anything else than what we got to be honest.

[muted bone]

It seems what is communicated is at best unclear as to whether there would be a visible differentiation

[normal kernel]

But It would have been nice if the Alphas had a visual differentiator.
Perhaps a form of glow that surrounds the illuvial. Only on Alphas.

[viscid knoll]

I think the IIP is unnecessary. I haven’t had any issues distinguishing between alpha and non alpha. The whole idea of alpha was inspired by Pokémon cards first edition. Those cards do not have a stamp on the actual image. I just don’t see the need for this and think it is adding work for a team that already has plenty on their plates. Token Trove and Immutable both show if it’s alpha in the details and I’m sure they will improve their UI to make it more obvious as Illuvium is massive for them. This is not an Illuvium issue. It is a 3rd party exchange issue.

[stark anvil]

I think only three options are acceptable:

• animated overlay
• background overlay (behind illuvitar)
• alpha accessory (seems like the most work)

[lucid spruce]

Making them an accessory causes issues IMO, if you think that scenario through.

[muted bone]

But the 1st edition stamp is a part of the card. its a part of the physical proof that you have. When people buy cards they don't just buy the image, they buy the whole card. In this case we just have the image to work with which complicates things

[lucid spruce]

It needs to be bound to the Illuvitar itself.

[slim raft]

could just be a clown nose with an "A" in the middle /s

[stark anvil]

That means you can bond it or decide not to. But you can only bond it on Alpha Illuvitars. Making that for other ways would maybe make Regular Alpha packs more desirable.

[viscid knoll]

The rest of the card is just stats and information. Just like with an Illuvitar you have the image and then the stats and information. I see no difference.

[narrow estuary]

Guys lets not get stuck in the weeds arguing over small details here, Theres been a lot of good feedback already and Ill compile and come back with an updated draft tomorrow once we get a chance for everybody to comment.

[glossy iris]

It really depends where people want value to be added.

If it's within our ecosystem, we have full control of how profile pictures are created, changed displayed, for each purpose. I'd suggest smaller incremental IIPs focussing on specific implementations.
The value on the blockchain (currently) is in the metadata. Integrations can consume this data how they see fit. Here's one which has decided the tier is a good overlay and displayed the alpha status below: https://twitter.com/illuvitarsbot
By being applying a less directed and more interoperable approach, we'll allow the community to add their own value to the product.

[edgy sapphire]

why not facilitate peoples exporting of the image for other platforms like twitter or discord

no alpha tag just animation thing within ILV ecosystem, but each illuvitar has an "export image" button which opens a UI that lets you save a HD JPEG of the image, gives options to add an Alpha Tag to it wherever you want if its alpha, and also

Why not provide the value that many feel there is in Alphas?
and it helps advertise the project on other platforms too...

@viscid knoll you havent had issues distinguishing because there arent any non-alphas yet, in a week when there are copies of every alpha selling at 5x cheaper anyone that got an alpha just to have a PFP on twitter is going to sell it to buy the same one but cheaper because theres no added flex anywhere except on a marketplace of a game that isnt out yet, why not give it that added flex if people want it?

@zinc crane just theoretically is what im suggesting in this message not something that would be easy to implement?

[ivory heron]

thank you for your insight Neil. there's just something i didn't get... so basically we paid 5x more a pfp so we can photoshop "Alpha: yes" on it ? xD

[uneven flame]

But an accessory still adds a lot of custom work for each illuvitar to fit and it would just cause more chaos if some bonded and some not. Mayhem. Now you really can’t tell if it’s an alpha or not which was the main idea

[narrow estuary]

@formal bobcat @languid tundra can we get a 1 hr slowmode on this?

Its gonna be a lot easier to keep track of the feedback without all this back and forth.

[visual warren]

what about a sort of "backlight" effect, so the border is around the image, but it stands out from the background due to a subtle glow?
that would make it quite obvious when scrolling the illuvidex

[ivory heron]

btw about this entire IIP i don't think it's required to do anything about it right now in the actual state of things and i'd honestly very much rather see the team focusing on stuff that actually MATTERS for a VIDEO-GAME. just saying that what's been done with Illuvium: Beyond could've probably be done "better".

[languid tundra]

Done

[slim raft]

an hour harsh, love it. you can all discuss over in my favorite channel #1073754520477253742

[viscid knoll]

I fully disagree with this. The Illuvium website has an alpha toggle switch already built in. I have more faith in the general public to recognize alpha v non alpha. Let the other exchanges implement a toggle feature and the problem is solved.

Also seeing identical Illuvitars at wildly different prices should tip people off. At some point it isn’t the teams responsibility. I believe that is the case here.

[edgy sapphire]

when the team sells something for 5x more it is their responsibility for the product to be clearly distinguished from another project costing 5x less but looking and behaving identically.

I am not advocating helping other exchanges, I'm advocating people being able to have it clear in their twitter PFP that its that Rhamphyre thats worth 8ETH and not the same looking one thats worth less than 1ETH...

and I dont think its hard to achieve as I laid out in: https://discordapp.com/channels/760344898200666112/1083510447950536755/1083527747596460073 (would appreciate any devs take on how achievable something like that actually is)

[lucid spruce]

This is mostly missing the point of the proposal. I'm fairly certain I have a good grasp on the motivation here, and it's related to people wanting to display that they own an Alpha Illuvitar as a status symbol. That's a core part of how Alphas got marketed, as a more exclusive product. Premium brands ALWAYS display their logo on the product, there are very few exceptions.

This isn't about making sure you can identify that you're buying an Alpha Illuvitar on every marketplace, it's about the utility of Alpha Illuvitars as profile pictures, which is currently their primary utility in the Illuvium ecosystem. To me, it's a part of supporting the product, and will likely be a major factor in whether people continue to be interested in Alpha disks in future sales. A line of metadata is not sufficient distinction in many people's minds. In-game implementations (shimmer, etc.) will alleviate some of the concerns. For now, we're using Illuvitars outside of games, and if we can support people's desire to stand out, people's experience with Alphas will be that much better.

[narrow estuary]

Hey guys,
The reason for the slow mode is just to make it easier for everyone to have their voice be heard. We have a very large community most of whom havent even seen this yet.
Your feedback is much appreciated but please understand that im going to have to go back through all of this and compile and distill the feedback into a revised draft and the back-and-forth discussions make this more difficult.

If you would like to share your ideas please try to make a single post sharing your thoughts about the proposal, which potential styles of implementation you prefer, and why.
This is a first draft and there will be plenty more opportunities to share your thoughts as we iterate on this proposal over the coming days.

[wheat fulcrum]

i dont care about the tag, fabricated value is just that IMO, anyhow, im more for a foil type mark, kinda think like windows genuine sticker on their OS packages. smaller than depicted in the original, the correct placement wouuld be lower right, think like where you would hold it with hand, i honestly believe in years to come, alphas will be less desirable, just a hunch, means nothing, it is a profile picture, is it aboutu the art or the flex? Thats why im not for the tag

[woeful wing]

all pp discussing here have seen the test pulls and nobody has asked before launch "why is the alpha stamp not visible?" or included this point in the purchasing decisions. we should be happy with an illuvium wabsite internal solution

[stark anvil]

The wording for the image above from Sneakypoke says: "Each Alpha Illuvitar and Accessory is stamped with an Alpha icon..."

We can all agree that IIP was somewhat last second and a bit rushed. Also, there was a talk that every Illuvitar will have a Alpha stamp. We did not know what that meant (or at least I didn't) until few days before the sale in the leaks of opening packs. Having the IIP a week before the sale, or now, or in a week or a month doesn't matter.

I expected it to be different and to have a stamp or something on the image.
I was confused on why we don't have anything on Accessories and that prices were wrong for the Alpha packs compared to each other (which we can now see was very true).
I saw that we will only have a stamp next to the image and I was okay with it and satisfied.

Do I think it can be improved? Yes.
Do I think it's worth it? I don't know. That's why we are here to discuss. That's why we have the council to decide.

I think at the very least we can propose and discuss some options. See where we stand. Listen to Rogier and what he has to say about it.

But saying things like "we should be happy with..." is not Illuvium. We are where we are because we are never happy and we want to improve the IP and have the best possible product. Grant wasn't happy with Illuvium Zero look at it now. Maybe this isn't the best solution in the end, we'll se. But we have to strive to be the very best.

[forest lotus]

I would say NO stamp but if the community realy support the idea of the an alpha badge that can be optionaly bonded myght be away to go it could also be given out with the emote disks or something to limit the work

[vestal palm]

this will really let the Alphas stand out! or let ppl pick a Stamp or Border and they can just bond it

[rain ridge]

This isn't true, a few of us voiced our concerns to Nick and he said he would take our input to the team about a possible change after the mint.

[vestal palm]

Can we get the background to move or something 🤔 it need to be something cool something that makes you dream of having an Alpha ! Something that makes you wish an envy, those they have one 💪🏾🔥

[glossy iris]

Thanks for your effort so far @narrow estuary

[compact bluff]

I love the ideas in here 🔥

[hazy cedar]

This gets my vote. This individual said it best. For me, the distinction does not need to be overly flashy. Even a minor distinction would satisfy me.

[patent pecan]

There is a trend of people buying Illuvium nfts and then insisting that a change be made to make the thing they now own, more valuable. You see the same thing with people buying lands and then saying lands should get more than 5% of fuel sales.

Like most people, I expected a stamp, however I also had the opportunity to see examples of what alphas look like before minting.

I’m in favour of the team deciding on a subtle change or addition to the pfp that is visible within the Illuvium ecosystem.
This will be an improvement for some people without being a negative for others.

It is not the team’s responsibility or priority to help investors make money when they resell their nfts on 3rd party sites.
If people want to show off that they are wealthy, buy a crypto punk.

[maiden yoke]

good idea for an 'indication' for alpha status. I will trust the art team to know the best way to make it work.

[golden breach]

Is that you Aaron? Haha no honestly it’s a good point. But alpha D1sks will be an ongoing thing. So it’s not necessarily that same sort of situation. But certainly the question needs to be less about resale value and more about branding and future sales.

[narrow estuary]

This is something that was discussed before the mint after some community members expressed that we were expecting some kind of visual indicator on the image and we were told that it was a change that could be made post-mint if an IIP were passed. So definitely not an idea that came about after the fact.
My focus here is not on increasing resale value, but on improving the product by implementing a change that appears to have significant community support.

I also think the comparison to land is unfair, for the 5% value on fuel sales to be raised it would require that money be diverted away from ILV holders. In this case the change would come at an expense to no one other than a bit of time for the devs.

As pelican said, improving the alpha product is an overall win for the Illuvium brand and could drive more sales for Alpha Disks in the future which benefits the whole DAO.

[night raft]

I want the Alpha stamp as a way to more visually differentiate and thus add long term flex value.

However my concern is that if we change the art now to add the Alpha stamp, we are showing the wider community that the DAO are willing to change these "NFT's" whenever it suits them.

That may then generate similar FUD that StarAtlas experienced when people found out they don't actually own a Non-Fungible Token...

So as much as I agree that the Alpha stamp visually improves the Alpha Illuvitar flex and dollar value... I think it is more important to try and maintain a "Non-Fungible Token" attitude, where once minted, locked forever!

added note - if as a DAO you allow changes to your Alpha D1sks now... what is stopping the DAO in 5 years time from making changes that DEVALUE your Alpha D1sks because it suits the current DAO majority at the time??
Better to set a firm stance now of Minted = Locked!

[stray pumice]

Some great points here, particularly like the order of priorities mentioned earlier.

For me the alpha should be instantly distinguishable from the non-alpha when used a as PFP. Ideally something that looks appealing as a flex and entice people to be purchasing these more premium products which will benefit the DAO

A stamp on the art for me detracts from the actual art and may not look good, could block accessories. A vfx that lays on top of the art or along the border (which could overlay over the earned borders also) wouldn't effect the art at all. Could even do mix of both and have a medium size alpha stamp that is shown only as a glimmer every few seconds, so that most of the time the full art is not interrupted. Being present in the illuvium ecosystem only for now seems fine and having it branch out to other platforms later on could be looked at.

Also completely agree with slow modes (even a 6-12 hour one) for this and all future drafts! The illuvitars draft was a mess of a thousand comments, with opinions of the many getting buried by more vocal individuals posting regularly. People should provide their opinion in one post then leave it as it'll help the team get a better read on everyone's sentiment

Thanks @narrow estuary for the great work so far on this 👍

[gentle ocean]

I will add another point of view to this discussion. Selling alphas is beneficial to the dao as it puts a lot of money into the vault and into the wallets of the stakers. It is in our best interest to make them hold value, otherwise don’t expect them to sell out when the next wave comes. This change is not only for people who bought alphas, this is for everyone who is invested in Illuvium. I bought 150 silv2 worth of alpha packs and I will accept whatever decision the council makes but if they start selling on the marketplace for the same price as non alphas then I am surely not buying them again.

[turbid ginkgo]

i wouldnt want an ugly stamp ruining the art i get that point from rogier, but it wouldnt hurt the art with a really small stamp like this:

im not an artist forgive me

[rose arrow]

At regular pfp size though, thats going to be a couple of indistinct white pixels, and could definitely get lost in some of the backgrounds. Is that really enough to 'flex' the way people are talking? I think maybe I just don't understand that viewpoint, which is fair enough, each to their own!

In general, my 2 cents as someone on the art team.....
I was under the impression that the alpha status was going to work the same way as Pokemon cards, with no visible change, but on closer inspection you can see that it's a first edition.
If that's now not the consensus and if we were going to have to implement some distinction (which is looking more and more likely looking at the ratios):
-Borders won't really work as we already have borders within the ecosystem.
-A stamp (like the examples at the top of the discussion) personally I think look like watermarks, and look cheap, which seems counterproductive to the 'flex' requests. They also interfere with the art and cover accessories. I can't speak to allowing people to place the stamp where they want, but it seems like a lot of work for something that in my opinion only makes the product worse...
-Adding an 'alpha' accessory is basically out of the question, I don't think people realise how much work it is to add even 1 new accessory, and it only compounds as we add more and more illuvitars and illuvials to the world. It also doesn't solve the problem, as some people don't want to bond accessories.
-Adding a backlight or something between the illuvitar and the background is as much work as adding a new accessory and will also not be particularly visible against some of the backgrounds which defeats the point...
-A signature seems like it would need to be pretty big to be clear what it is at pfp size. If you go small it wont be clear at pfp size so why bother...
-Vfx seems like the best good option but obviously won't be doable outside of Illuvium.

If it passes we will do our best to come up with a solution, but I'll be pushing for as subtle as possible.

[turbid ginkgo]

Any difference is a 'flex'

i think the majority wants a visible difference between the alpha and the non alpha version within and without the illuvium ecosystem. you guys got the crazy artists with the ideas, you cant tell me there is no way that a little alpha difference can be implemented without destroying the art.

[supple timber]

I thought this was going to be the only alpha's sold. Are we going to have alpha's in waves 2,3,4, etc...? If so, I guess it would be nice to have some kind of identifying mark on them. If this is going to be the only alpha's sold, the mark they have now is good enough. Just my opinion.🍻

[stray pumice]

It is currently planned to have alphas on every wave

[hazy cedar]

The buyers guide for Illuvitars mentions that the illuvitars contained in the Alpha D1SK will have a 'Alpha' marked in them. That is why I was disappointed to discover no 'Alpha' mark in the Illuvitars from the Alpha D1sks I purchased.

https://illuvium.io/news/illuvium-beyond-set-1-wave-one-buyers-guide

[viscid knoll]

If it is the Twitter PFP status we are worried about then an alpha stamp still wouldn’t be needed. If you verify your NFT on Twitter and get the hexagon PFP once someone clicks on it they can see more details. Just put Alpha in the title. Here is an example with Kain’s cryptopunk. If Alpha is in that title it will be obvious to all. Plus you can view further details.

[uneven flame]

As long as we can agree a border is a bad idea I’m fine. Why have a permanent alpha border when we have rank borders and they have ideas of us being able to unlock borders as rewards. Borders should not be in the discussion especially if you want to have an alpha “effect” to show off on twitter or other PFPs outside of Illuvium where the pfp is round. Even a stamp wouldn’t be visible in those cases.

I don’t like the idea of adding anything on top of the portraits…an already busy portrait where an alpha stamp on top of it could blend with the rest or just make it more busy. The alpha stamp would possibly also look too similar to the Illuvium badge accessory that already exists (when you see it as a pfp where the image normally is small).

I still find Rogiers original idea at the top to be the best idea so far. A UI overlay of some kind that shimmers/glows without making it too much. That would be enough to separate them from non alphas within the Illuvium ecosystem. They shouldn’t be bothered what other third party markets doing with the Illuvitars outside of Illuvium (how other marketplaces displays them. Mentioned by Neil before. That’s a marketplace UI problem). And if you’re worried you’d buy a non-alpha because you couldn’t tell. That’s a marketplace question imo or you just being lazy not clicking on the NFT to read/see it’s alpha?

I think the whole alpha idea was rushed to start with. It was discussed too close to the mint. We are already discussing this…maybe too soon? Maybe let wave 1 mint be done first and we can take a look back on how it was before we start doing changes and IIPs too soon. There’s really no rush to change anything is it?

I don’t think alphas were faulty marketed by having something on top of the portrait. At least that’s not something I didn’t expect from what I’ve seen, heard and read. An icon somewhere as it is is totally fine by me. However I would also love to see that extra pop on alphas hence why I think Rogiers shimmer/glow idea is great

[compact bluff]

Alpha Atlas would sound dope 🔥🔥🔥

I think a combo of special Alpha frames 🎞️ and as @viscid knoll said putting Alpha in the name would serve a lot to stick out.

[rain ridge]

In my opinion we shouldn't be worried about the stamp being covered up by accessories. Either people take the flex of having the ability to show off the alpha symbol or their preference for an accessorized pfp. If we try to make everyone happy this is never going to work.

[turbid ginkgo]

VFX on Illuvidex + VFX on the Ingame avatar would be cool

[stark anvil]

I would agree that VFX is awesome and we should bother with others outside of Illuvium ecosystem.

Let's be the one that will initialize the change. Not the ones that don't want to do something great because Twitter can't show the VFX overlay animation.

[edgy sapphire]

honestly the more I think about it the more that VFX is the best option available to solve the greatest number of issues simultaniously

-easy to add
-just 1 thing
-doesnt mess with the metadata
-further distiction within ILV ecosystem
-when taking a screenshot to use as a PFP on twitter or discord you can take the screenshot at the moment the VFX is doing its thing so its visible in your PFP (maybe they add a built in "download JPEG with the VFX still at right timing and download GIF of the full animation"

more than happy with this being the only solution needed

would love to hear a devs take specifically on this idea, as in on how achievable it is and how much resources it would take (cos imo its almost no work but maybe we're way off...)

[arctic ravine]

Alpha stamp on image yes. Right side.

[unique flint]

Great discussion as always, and thanks for participation from various team members. While resoundingly positive from a community feedback point of view, this one feels like a good example of the Gov v2 system of technical assessment rather than just council vote to approve because the community wants it.
In this case, there are technical limitations and implications of various solutions to solve the fundamental request of “I want to flex that my PFP is an alpha external to the Illuvium infrastructure and yours isn’t.” That is a key attribute of alphas, and something that should be considered.
Kain’s cryptopunk was referenced earlier. What if Kain’s was the one alpha cryptopunk, but there were 10 more identical ones that were the “regular” series, or same with a Bored Ape or other ultrarare status PFPs. Requiring additional steps to assess authenticity or rarity detracts from the “flex” value. I see this particularly being relevant as we approach the misprints sale, where effectively it will sell a current 1-of-1 alpha edition Illuvitar, but there may be 10 identical regular illuvitars in existence, so we’re expecting a high return on a PFP collectable that is already displayed by several others. Will that sell for as much if the buyer wanted for their Twitter profile when they know there are 10 others that will display identical art?
We bounce between reference to TCGs and PFPs in this product, and it’s important to maintain focus on the unique challenges and opportunities of Illuvitars to walk this line.
Back to my original point, while we can discuss at a council level, my initial guidance would be to not approve this proposal as written, but request the art team develop and evaluate prototype options such as those discussed here, and share the complexity and limitations associated with each option, and present for feedback on whether that addresses the intent of this proposal. If ultimately the options presented aren’t preferred enough when accounting for required effort, we may need to discuss this further or dismiss this idea. We need to make sure we’re balancing resources and requests, and the council doesn’t just approve ideas that are unsolvable or require too much effort to justify their benefit.
Personally, I am in the camp of some visual differentiation both internal and external to the Illuvium systems to justify the price difference and fulfill the product expectations of alpha Illuvitars. But without expertise and further assessment, I’m not prepared to dictate what that differentiation is.

[edgy sapphire]

I agree, the best steps forward would be for @narrow estuary to refine everything said here and submit all the points to council

Council forward it to devs and devs should create 3-5 different concept options that are achievable with minimal resource and then the community can evaluate which option is most preferred etc.

[halcyon sand]

Im with Rogier for the most part here. Although I wonder if there's other treatments. A subtle hue shift on the background or illuvial. Technically making the illuvitar unobtainable in non alpha form. It'd be so subtle it probably wouldn't mean enough to people but I would notice 🤣🤣

[cold zenith]

If nothing is changed at all, which some believe would be best, what purpose at all would there to be to spend an extra 5x price to buy an alpha d1sk? To just purely have an alpha tag in the metadata? You get an alpha illuvitar, sure, but at that point there's no worth spending that extra cost to buy the alpha ones when there is absolutely zero way of knowing it's an alpha other than to read in the metadata that it is indeed an alpha. Sure the art is already highly busy, but there are "simple" options already said to, at the very least, add something to distinguish them from non-alpha illuvitars and give a reasonable thought to pay the extra 5x value for the alpha ones to truly show that they are rarer than the ordinary illuvitars.

[digital beacon]

I think its clear most people want some way to identify Alpha Illuvitars at a glance and have to show on their PFP

[blissful steeple]

I was under the impression that it would only be a subtle difference between alphas and non alphas, which was a tag as mentioned.
Although i would love it to have a drastic distinguishable trait that blows it out of the water compared to the non alphas, i can't help but feel that it would be slightly unfair for those who decided to skip the alpha sale because of this reason.
Having said that... I believe most people who actually care about this and are here are owners of alpha and people can always still buy the alphas on secondary, i wouldn't object to that. It would also add a lot more value to the alphas coming out in the next few batches.
Adding a cool glow of the contour or even animated would be great, but it may take too many ressources or time away from the team that could be doing something else to push out more content.
So may i suggest we move on with a place holder for now, and can come up and vote on a more permanent change down the line.
I think a blinking alpha tag would be decent. Not only would it be easily distinguishable, having it blink would mean that it wouldn't block any of the traits no matter where it's placed on the portrait.

[halcyon sand]

I know many have mentioned sparkles and glitters and things but I think you can go simpler. A light sweep that happens every 10 seconds or so. Similar to what would happen if u pick up a physical holo card and wiggle it in front of your face.

[stray pumice]

This kind of vfx sees like the best option ATM and hopefully (forgive my assumption as I have no dev experience) the least work. Personally would prefer something every 5 seconds so it's not a blink and you'd miss it. Keeping this effect inside the illuvium ecosystem for now would be fine and down the line can work on getting it outside

[hazy cedar]

Which one of these two Mega disks is an Alpha?
To prevent us from unintentionally opening the Alpha disk, we should also add an indicator to the disks in addition to the visual indicator on the Illuvitar portrait.

[topaz lichen]

A good idea. Until then you can look at the ids. Lower id means alpha.

[digital beacon]

That is something I found weird, especially when the Illuvitars article "Illuvium Beyond Set 1 Wave One Buyers Guide" clearly showed Alpha D1sks With an Alpha Stamp

[urban wraith]

This is a good idea. I accidentally opened 2 of the 10 alpha mega d1sks that i was saving until I realized. As Ned said, I started to triple check that it wasn’t a low ID d1sk before opening future packs.

Lots of great ideas in this thread. I like Fizzo’s idea of a subtle and more frequent (or persistent) holo shimmer. Personally as I’m browsing to buy on the Illuvidex, it takes a min to differentiate between alpha/non-alpha and even the slightest visual difference would be really helpful in being able to immediately distinguish.

[compact bluff]

What an elegant and simple solution. I hope they bring this back.

[digital beacon]

What if the Alpha Symbol bounced around the Illuvitar image like the DVD Screensaver /s

[junior helm]

I want a picture of kieran warwick's face on the alpha illuvitars

[golden breach]

[junior helm]

will the DAO consider my proposal?

[golden breach]

This forum is for the discussion of the proposed idea pinned at the top of this thread. #1083510447950536755 message

If you believe your idea would benefit the DAO then share it in #1020759212172775464 and see if you can find anyone else that supports it.

If you’d like a further explanation of how ILV DAO governance operates you could check out #1081348114952237096 (even that is just a proposal still but it should give some insight)

[arctic ravine]

Yes on this proposal, and right side for the stamp.

[dapper elm]

The proposal should focus on the general idea, not the specifics of the implementation. Very detailed specifications will just make it difficult for the team to do their job.

I'd say the general ideas being discussed are:

1. Alpha status is visibly shown on NFT image
2. Visualisation is clear but not intrusive
3. Visualisation can be used in a static PFP that works on common platforms like Twitter and Discord
   (i.e. if it is animation based there should be a certain frame that can be used, if it is based on an icon in a corner there must be some way to represent it in a circular PFP)

Personally I'm not actually keen on 3 as it limits the choices significantly (a twitter profile image is small, its going to be hard to make something fit a small circular image and be both clear and non-intrusive)

[stark anvil]

I 100% agree that we don’t need to tell a world class team how to do their job and implement something.

I also agree that we don’t need number 3. Illuvitars are Illuvium ecosystem pfp. We don’t have to make it perfect in every scenario on other platforms.

[blazing pilot]

Yeah I think some sort of sparkle animation would work best. Most pfps are cropped as a circle, that cuts out the A in the bottom corner.

[compact bluff]

Animations aren't usually supported when choosing as pfp, but generally I like the idea. It reminds me of a different NFT collection. They put a chrome effect on the rare version of the same NFT. I think that could actually work. It definitely works here.

[blazing pilot]

That’s true. I’m sure the team could figure something out when setting as a pfp.

[visual warren]

My last sentiment was that I would prefer not to have a "stamp" on the art, but something in-universe that allows us to see the difference would be nice. Thinking about it over the last week+ I've really just confirmed my prior thoughts.

Either a brief animated vfx over the image or a backlight glow behind the PFP image. I personally don't care that much whether it is differentiated on Twitter/external sites. My first thought was from the loot boxes I've opened in Heroes of the Storm, as soon as you glance you know when you're looking at something better/amazing. Rare/Epic/Legendary items have a glow effect that help it stand out from the background compared to common items. Something like this behind the profile picture and the PFP's border in-game and in Illuvidex would definitely help provide some separation. Doesn't need to be so extreme, either, it could be done fairly subtle and still be effective.

But yeah I definitely think we should tend towards an IIP that just asks for something to differentiate alpha PFPs in-universe, then let the team of very competent people we have provide their recommendations/options.

[languid tundra]

[Updated] IIP-XX Add Alpha Stamp on Illuvitar Image

This has an updated draft #1087787693020291072 here please head there to interact.