#Cancel Zhu Su Illuvitar battle event

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

bronze wren
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While Zhu Su is a well known figure in the web3 community and does have a larger follower count than Illuvium, direct association with him risks the reputation that the DAO has worked to curate.

Illuvium has constantly sought an image of being different and doing things right. The original presented "battle" not only places an Illuvium co-founder in direct connection with a controversial figure, but does so with the perception of an invitation from the DAO, on a stage provided by the DAO.

To ensure first introductions to Illuvium are not establishing a direct connection between a new, exciting product and a controversial figure representing arguably the perception the DAO has fought to separate itself from, the originally presented "d1sk battle" shall be canceled.

During this tenuous time for web3, it is important to avoid the risk of "scam by association."

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and 5 minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." - Warren Buffett

native kelp
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Might be worth having this event at a much later date given Zhu Su makes a comeback but it certainly holds an extensive amount of risk given this is the first major consumer facing product for Illuvium in a broad sense.

whole ruin
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If I didn’t already know about illuvium I would swerve the hell out of this project coz of him

blissful violet
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Is this an official Illuvium event in any way or is it just something that Kieran is doing?

#

Because Kieran has said its not a partnership or official event.

Also if Kieran wanted to go ahead with this anyway despite a few people not liking the idea what then? Is there any course of action for enforcement other than the council removing Kieran from the project? Seems like a big deal is being made over a very small event.

clear atlas
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As somebody who has never worked in marketing I can’t honestly vote on this.

Is the phrase: ‘no such thing as bad publicity’ really true? I don’t know, maybe other people do.

It does seem to conflict with the Illuvium brand though, and seems out of character with the way Kieran has presented himself in public previously.

tacit trellis
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Using Illuvium art department and using Illuvium platforms to promote a bad actor in the crypto space are my biggest concerns. If Kieran did this on his own I think it could be a risky marketing ploy, but possibly be a net positive for the DAO.

frozen crater
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Can we get a tl;dr about who Zhu Su is?

rough arch
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The die is cast. Let's see what Kieran has planned. Controversial marketing can work well if handled right and if anyone could pull it off its' Kieran. Or let Kieran cancel it if he wants to but I thinks it's his choice.

azure cobalt
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Dont know enough about the guy tbh, but with that being said if this dude is controversial and has a bad rap in web3 id rather us not take any part of this. guilt by association is a real thing especially in web3. AND based on his recent twitter engagement.... definitely not worth the headache the numbers speak for themselves

tacit trellis
# frozen crater Can we get a tl;dr about who Zhu Su is?

He's a co-founder of bankrupt crypto hedge fund 3 Arrows Capital. They had many over leveraged risky plays with loaned crypto. 3AC failing margin calls was a big factor in the bankruptcies of Celcius, BlockFi, and Voyager. Retail investors lost money in these bankruptcies... also there are rumors that the co-founders made large purchases of homes and a mega yaht after 3AC was failing.

austere parrot
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I believe and think it’s almost unanimously agreed that Zhu Su has demonstrated through his actions a callous disregard for his customers at a minimum. His actions possibly will show much worse if he ever appears at a trial but this isn’t the forum to discuss that. His mindset and approach has no place in Web3 if we want to improve as an industry and I want Illuvium far away from him. There is potential for major brand damage if this battle is to proceed with it being endorsed by the DAO. I have faith in Kieran to behave in a manner that reflects the ethos of Illuvium but I do not think that can sufficiently mitigate the risk for a pretty minimal reward in publicity. I have provided some proposed edits to the language to Deraji but I am in support of an IIP halting this particular d1sk battle matchup.

gilded mirage
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Oh my god. Who ideas was it to bring that guy in? Controversial? Somebody that claimed to do a sophisticated market neutral hedge fund and was putting all into the 20% magic return of Anchor on Terra while taking funds to buy a yacht? Soon or later he will be prosecuted too and that the one that was selected? Who are the next ones? Do Kwon? Bernie Madoff? Gordon Gecko?
Of course this should be cancelled. Don't you see the crack down of the SEC and other regulators? That's how you want to show Illuvium to a broader audience?? This is insane

blissful violet
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Well personally I think this would be quite entertaining. A lot of people seem to be conflating this battle with Illuvium somehow promoting or endorsing Zhu Su but thats not the case. Kieran did a debate with the Star Atlas guy and nobody took that as a promotion of him or his product, I dont see why this would be different.

I do think it would be best to not use the official looking Illuvium artwork for this since this is not an official Illuvium parntership or endorsement and it seems to be causing confusion.

azure cobalt
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Not somehow endorsing they are endorsing… the Illuvium twitter account retweeted kierans tweet and mentioned “amazing lineup”

bronze wren
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Kieran can do what he wants and if he wants to create content with controversial figures, that is his choice.
The star Atlas thing was on neutral ground (arguably), and no participant was associated with the controversy connected with Zhu and the broader negative web3 community sentiment.
I also view it as bad etiquette for the DAO to invite someone to an event to roast them.
It's the formal DAO involvement/association that is in question. Not with Illuvium branding, not on an illuvium channel, and not promoted by illuvium formal accounts.

gilded mirage
blissful violet
gilded mirage
blissful violet
vital onyx
gilded mirage
blissful violet
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Twitter seems to like entertainment at least

Poll.png
azure cobalt
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Half of twitter lol

bronze wren
# blissful violet Ehh I guess not. Im not someone who is afraid of hearing from or about controver...

The poll at least demonstrates the controversial nature of the choice.
I continue to push the dao image of doing things differently, and not being associated with the perception of scams that bias against web3 adoption.
This is a promotional product launch for the dao, under control of the dao of who it wants to associate with, whether a formal partnership or not. I personally see both the short and long term potential implications of this association as a negative for the ethos that Illuvium has continued to advocate. (And currently 22 thumbs up vs 4 thumbs down in polling here)

blissful violet
# bronze wren The poll at least demonstrates the controversial nature of the choice. I contin...

I think cancelling this would be missing out on an opportunity to do exactly that. This will give us a ton of exposure to a new audience and Kieran can use the battle to highlight how Illuvium is different from the scammy projects that people are afraid of.

Is there some short term risk of a little blowback? Potentially, but controversy gets attention and this could get A LOT of new eyes on Illuvium especially if it turns out to be memeworthy and spreads around the crypto space. I dont think Kieran wanted to do this for no reason, He obviously has a plan and I think we should trust him to see it play out.
As far as long term issues from this, I find the idea almost laughable. Its gonna be a single event that lasts for what, 30 minutes maximum? If it doesnt work out in Illuviums favor we just take down the video and everyone will forget about it after a month.

Theres obviously some risk reward judgement that needs to be made here but I see a LOT more potential upside than downside.
The crypto space loves a bit of spice and this is spicy by nature. I think we run a greater risk of whitewashing ourselves into a boring obscurity than ruining our reputation.

blissful violet
small cipher
#

Honestly, I had to laugh when I saw this. As someone who remains strongly against the recent passed IIP I see this as another example of illuvium heading in the wrong direction. Kierans actions risk bringing illuvium into disrepute. Though kieran is free to do as he wishes the DAO is also free to react and protect its reputation.

If the CEO chooses to publicly associate with controversial figures against the wishes of the DAO. All of illuviums official social medias should publicly denounce his actions. The council should also start a discussion about how employees bringing illuvium into disrepute should be dealt with going forward.

solid glade
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I couldn't be more against this association.
If our goal is to attract non-crypto people, this will actively work against that goal.
If our goal is to attract crypto people, this will actively work against that goal.
As a gamer and an investor I would be less likely to spend decent amounts of money on Illuvium if I saw Zhu Su and Kieran hanging out. Really starts smelling like a get rich quick scam and F the consequences..

whole ruin
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I was already concerned about the optics of illuvitars. Illuvium has now had a token sale, land sale and now a pfp sale and no game. To people not following closely it’s already stinking of grift. Associating with zhu could just seal the deal for a lot of people. The dude is a literal criminal fraudster on the run. Have we no integrity?

crimson steeple
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At this point we should wait for Kieran to explain this Zhu Su thing. I am pretty sure he thought about the potential negative consequences and can explain his reasoning. If not, we should vote against this battle event.

blissful violet
whole ruin
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Well another question is. What’s Zhu get out of this? He wouldn’t agree to come on stream to get spat on.

vital onyx
whole ruin
oblique ivy
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I’m also very much against this - this is not an unofficial partnership, it’s on Illuvium artwork that’s been retweeted by the main account, just before the biggest launch for Illuvium so far.

Last I heard Zhu Su was on the run in Dubai and living there so he wasn’t extradited.

It’s a major misstep and should be re-considered ASAP before it’s too late.

Kieran debated the Star Atlas guy because that’s their main web 3 game competition. You can’t compare partnering with Zhu Su to that

small cipher
versed siren
tacit trellis
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Do we really need an iip for this? Can a council member just ask Kieran to take the tweet down, the community seems pretty against this.

crimson steeple
tacit trellis
crimson steeple
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Oh, I didn't see this.

blissful violet
humble otter
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You can look on his messages in general

blissful violet
humble otter
blissful violet
tacit trellis
versed siren
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I think that even IF* the intent is to roast Zhu Su he isnt coming on while trying to rebuild himself to get shit on. He will try extract the most out of this to legitimize himself at our expense, in my opinion. We are possibly rolling the dice on Illuviums brand for clicks and views.

small cipher
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Forgot about DeRace

azure cobalt
blissful violet
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Ah, okay. So it's the "No promo is bad promo idea"....Did anything good come from the StarAtlas debate? DC members, Twitter followers. Really asking, have we data on that? Maybe I'm wrong here, but I still don't see that being a good approach before a mayor product launch.

crimson steeple
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Maybe we should let Kain battle Shu Zu? Kieran mentions Shu Zu was going against his brother, then Kain should battle Shu Zu using Kieran's Illuvium product? This would make us provide the battlegrounds only and keep our CEO out of any direct association with Shu Zu. We are a decentralized competitive game and can't and shouldn't choose our players based on moral grounds.

bronze cipher
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I'm out of the loop in this. Can anyone explain Zhu Su to me?
All good I see explained

topaz gulch
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Single battle should be fine but no further association please. We have to be careful if we are serious about building whole Illuviumverse / brand / franchise, reputation matters.

bronze cipher
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I see though a lot of strong points against. I'm going to have to do some thinking on this one.

quartz ice
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Both parts (people against and Kieran) might have a point. Ideally, the battle should be done out of the official platforms as Deraji says, but the impact and reach would be less. For those very concern about the image damage, think that half of the discord server (or more, me included) didn't know about this Zhu Su guy and half of the potential viewers won't know about him. And for those who know, this guy has 500k followers that for sure don't share his ethic and don't support his actions. So is all about visibility.
Just a fun fact, remember the people concerns when the game Deadrace (I think it was the name) used an image with Illuvium logo? People were very concerned about the damage to Illuvium because of an association with a low quality game. In the end nothing happened...

bronze cipher
# tacit trellis

I get this idea. Still I see the reasons for not doing it. Tricksy.
What happened to his brother?

worthy sapphire
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how can you cancel a personal battle?

bronze cipher
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I guess it's going to get visibility? It seems like a marketing strategy to aim at a 'high interest point' in a person. Like maybe riding the wave of someone else's media focus.

rotund orbit
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Did SBF interaction with League hurt the game's reputation? No. Because League had 10+ years of working product. Having one of the shadiest persons in crypto space having interaction with product that still hasn't been launched puts the same product at risk.

bronze cipher
quartz ice
bronze cipher
versed siren
waxen vessel
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So I didn’t know the star atlas debate existed before this but just watched it for the first time. Kieran was obviously soooooo much more knowledgeable than the other guy it was insane and made me very proud to be team Illuvium. I don’t like associating with this ZS guy but can we find someone else to battle???

quartz ice
waxen vessel
bronze cipher
versed siren
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Also derace was a low quality game Zhu Su isnt that. He's much much worse, it can't be compared seriously.

bronze cipher
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It could probably be okay to drop him with so many others. Yet it could be good. Like interesting to see what happens. Put some faith in the team that hey have the backend covered.

blissful violet
nimble imp
# blissful violet I think cancelling this would be missing out on an opportunity to do exactly tha...

does zhu have an audience tho? not really

when u collab with a content creator you expose them to your audience and they expose you to theirs so you both grow audiences

zhu is just considered and known as a massive scam artist, thats all his name represents

his name doesnt bring additional audience, people will just read his name and illuvium in the same Title or Sentence and associate Illuvium with Scam, thats how the brain works, tiny % of those that see the Title will actually watch it, but everyone that sees the title will form a negative impression of illuvium potentially

I get Kierans point, regardless of why they come they will stay for a quality product, but many hear the association of a scam and just never come, people stay away from anything sketchy in this space

those are my concerns, if Kieran does it on his own youtube, twitter or twitch or whatever and doesnt say that the event is run by illuvium, then i really dont mind,

if its on an illuvium platform, its not my preferance but at that point I'd just be trusting in Kieran that he knows his shit, cos end of the day, he does...

humble whaleBOT
#
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Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

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bronze cipher
shadow pasture
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We know that a big part of his followers must be fake account !

#

It s not representative of reality...

signal aspen
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It's commendable to see the DAO demonstrating such effective coordination and a strong commitment to protecting our reputation. Cancelling the battle in response to any potential risks or concerns is a responsible decision that reflects well on our organisation's values and priorities. In fact, this level of strategic decision-making could be considered noteworthy from a PR perspective, as it underscores the DAO's dedication to acting in the best interests of all stakeholders involved. If an IIP is drafted I will of course abstain from voting due to the conflict of interest and will respect and act on the outcome of the IIP

crimson bronze
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If this gets voted on and kicks Zhu off the battle,
I hope marketing will seize the opportunity to highlight how the Illuvium Dao blocked the CEO of illuvium to engage with Zhu😀

karmic robin
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<@&814435151307866142> iip ? 😁

native kelp
worthy sapphire
#

FTX, GTX, HTX.....

dreamy cedar
native kelp
worthy sapphire
forest hearth
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https://twitter.com/zhusu/status/1623734703596486658
If u guys wanna see how hated Zhu Su is, just look through the comments. Literally nobody supports him.

Zhu Su 朱溯 (@zhusu)

1/ june/july was total darkness for me, kyle & our creditors after our bet on accelerating crypto adoption proved fatally wrong

we were crushed by the collapse of the market & the way our misplaced conviction had contributed to the pain

Likes

448

Twitter ·
versed siren
forest hearth
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Its interesting such a huge difference in ratio from twitter poll. Maybe not that many ppl know who ZS is.

worthy sapphire
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if kieran feel that the battle is a good idea, he should definitely do it.

versed siren
native kelp
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A 50/50 result speaks volumes is all.

polar otter
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The risk is not worth the reward with ZS. If we want to create a buzz then a better option would be to get Machi (who just sold a ton of BAYC, Azukis, etc) and has a massive stack of ETH. This is the main story in the space right now and if we get them into a battle it will bring many more people than ZS ever could. Timing is everything so portraying Illuvitars as Machi’s next potential investment would be huge.

flat pier
# versed siren The poll was simple and without context, here <@865392375902502943> has added hi...

Frankly, not that many people know or care about who ZS is, if we're trying to give context to the results of a Twitter poll.

Regardless, what happens within our community matters much more, and it's pretty clear people don't want us associated with TS. This should be a 5 minute fix, I'm missing context on why we should need to pass this as a proposal personally. Happy to do it if we're into spending time on proposals to delete tweets though.

#

Next Up: Proposal to Tie Shoelaces prior to leaving the house.

dreamy cedar
worthy sapphire
#

how do you feel about kieran for doing this?

harsh kraken
dreamy cedar
# worthy sapphire how do you feel about kieran for doing this?

It doesnt matter how i feel about this whole situation, what matters is what the comunity wants. If you wonder what my personal opinion is, i think this got pulled out of proportion yet again wich was not needed at all. How i feel about kieran,I think his reaction in general yesterday was a no go but he turned around like you can see in his recent post. In the end its what the comunity wants and not a single person. So yet again the comunity has shown its strenght imo 😄

worthy sapphire
#

of course it matters you are a part of the community.
i am just not sure that IIP covers personal action

dreamy cedar
worthy sapphire
#

is the battle an official event sponsored by Illuvium?

grizzled citrus
nimble imp
blissful violet
cunning hearth
#

Yes I have abandoned Illuvium despite supporting it in the past.

Yes Illuvium has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past.

The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn and concocting purity tests, while zero newcomers can afford the chain, is gross.

crimson bronze
whole ruin
#

It’s a copy pasta of Zhu’s most famous tweet in my opinion but they changed it from Eth to say illuvium lol. It’s also the tweet that Kaine shat on Zhu for. Basically calling zhu a grifter pump and dumper well before 3AC collapsed and people still considered zhu a crypto trading god

versed siren
cunning hearth
cunning hearth
unborn swallow
#

Haven't really seen it and not sure of worth sharing this... the biggest concern is it is on LAUNCH DAY... a couple weeks later into the 3month window for the Wave 1 release... still gives time for new people to find Illuvitars to buy in... and also look deeper into the Illuvium Ecosystem and suite of games! We might even have PB2 OW announced to release and maybe even PVP which will attract more eyes as well (hopeful thinking here, nothing has been shared on release dates yet for these)

God forbid Zhu Su beats Kieran... how would that look? It's a possibility and the optics could be very negative after that...

Anyways I loved reading through everything above and feel like might be going to an IIP vote shortly.

clear atlas
worthy sapphire
#

opening card packs is a watchable battle?

clear atlas
worthy sapphire
#

maybe i should watch some crates opening

atomic prawn
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I havent been in Crypto long enough to recognize who ZS was until someone told me 3AC. After finding out the connection, the initial thought that entered my head is why is Illuvium associating with him? How is this benefitting the project optics?

I took a step back. Read the comments from the community and Kieran’s response and here are my thoughts on this (if people are interested to read):

Not an Illuvium Event
Kieran has said that its not a partnership, nor looking to be “associated” and I agree on principal. Kieran has done this before where he as an individual who happens to be the co-founder of Illuvium would go into a debate with another project’s founder. Not once did we think it was a sanctioned Illuvium Event. Of course it helped that another personality was hosting it but we didn’t think that Kieran was going on it representing Illuvium. He went to that debate as Kieran.

However, the optics of using Illuvium’s resources and theme for the material made it look like it was. Not to mention its happening during the launch. For regular people outside our bubble, they wont know the difference and that’s a problem.

Had this been a simple throwdown from one Crypto Personality to another without official-looking materials then this would have all been avoided imho. You get the engagement/controversy but without having Illuvium be associated with ZS.

Don’t use an IIP
It is unnecessary to do an IIP to tell Kieran to cancel the battle. Cat is out of the bag. Official materials were used. And fundamentally, it’s an individual’s choice. Kieran can just cancel it on his own if he wants. We don’t need an IIP for that.

But if want to put a PR spin to it, then have the official Illuvium account issue a statement on behalf of the DAO. And/or Kieran posting a tweet clarifying the personal throwdown. But no need for an IIP if the premise is true that this is not a sanctioned Illuvium Event.

That being said, if the 6000 d1sks was going to be used for this influencer battle then this makes it an official illuvium event who not only used the team resources and time but also the marketing allotment. DAO stepping in would make more sense.

versed siren
atomic prawn
versed siren
#

It also achieves the same net result or better in clicks/views potentially anyway.

gilded mirage
bronze wren
small cipher
#

The DAO isn't in the business of telling individuals what they can and cannot do. Kieran can do as he wishes and can choose to ignore anything said here.

It's about whether or not the DAO approves of his actions and it's willingness to deal with any potential fallout.

gilded mirage
blissful violet
craggy geyser
#

guys not Zhu

gilded mirage
#

Kieran answered nicely and called for a real IIP vote.

#

It is a council matter now

versed siren
# small cipher The DAO isn't in the business of telling individuals what they can and cannot do...

Since this has been brought up ahead of time, if Illuvium deleted it's tweet and Kieren did it anyway but on his own channel or hosted by someone non officially affiliated. The DAO would still potentially need to have a way to damage control potential brand damage from a bad take on the event. It is what it is and Kieren is his own man, he can do what he likes. It certainly not my place to tell him he can't privately do something. From my point of view this is a bad gamble and Id rather it get handled ahead of time. If it is to go ahead then lets be prepared for any potentials.

craggy geyser
#

He s also in the Fallen Angels. An Artist made a collection with all those scammer, call them Fallen Angels, Zhu is one of them. Illuvium can t be associated with this man.

This could be used against illuvium over time

humble whaleBOT
#
DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

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small cipher
# versed siren Since this has been brought up ahead of time, if Illuvium deleted it's tweet and...

If we were talking about a random illuvium focused content creator the yes I'd agree. But we're talking about a member of the illuvium labs team, a co founder, a council member, the CEO and ("I've done 200+ AMAs) face of illuvium.

The attempt to find enough daylight between kieran and illuvium to justify this situation is silly and we all know it 😅

Also like most here I'm sure, I've had to agree to a social media policy at work. Meaning any content created online by me that has the potential to bring the company I work for into disrepute can be subject to disciplinary action regardless my intentions.

Does illuvium labs not have this policy? Seems odd that it wouldn't.

flat pier
# gilded mirage It is a council matter now

It's already been submitted on GitHub. I have no desire to spend more time than necessary on this. It's already excessive to require an IIP to delete a tweet and not be associated with a scammer, god forbid this drags on as well. I'm ready to vote.

small cipher
flat pier
rough arch
#

@flat pier an IIP is the best way forward for marketing. Kieran IS a marketing expert and he is telling you how to get some good PR out of this. You have over 200,000 people who have seen the original Tweet. You now have to do something big enough for people to notice a retraction and that can be a battle. From a marketing viewpoint, this event already happened for those 200k plus people, unless you can reach them and tell them otherwise. Studies prove how ineffective retractions really are. The IIP will help the council do the necessary marketing to explain why this battle isn't happening. At least I really hope council had some marketing plans in place to deal with the aftermath before they decided to pull the plug on this.

versed siren
blissful violet
#

Just my 2 cents, having zhu su in any way promoted by Illivium will damage Illuvium forever! The Ethereum comunity hates zhu su for all the fraud he did.

flat pier
humble otter
rough arch
vital onyx
humble otter
crimson bronze
#

Imagine we had open Beta to play now, no one would have noticed this whole Zhu debacle🤭

blissful violet
# native kelp Just wanted to point out the star atlas debate was before this event. So it's a ...

It was before he lost the money but Wagner wasn't selected for a debate because he was perceived to be someone positive to associate with the Illuvium brand. In fact he was selected because Kieran felt that he was misleading investors by making promises that he couldn't fulfill and essentially scamming people out of their money much like Zhu Su. I think theyre more similar than people want to acknowledge.
Better framing of this event could have made a big difference if it was marketed as more of a confrontation than a collaboration which is how most people seem to be viewing it.

humble whaleBOT
#
DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

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upbeat sequoia
blissful violet
# nimble imp does zhu have an audience tho? not really when u collab with a content creator ...

He definitely has some amount of audience and likely a lot of people that haven't been exposed to Illuvium yet.
If you main concern is that people will just read the headline and assume Illuvium is a scam because we are doing a battle with zhu su then the damage is already done. The tweets have already been viewed by 200k people and without following through on the event we now have no way to demonstrate that Illuvium actually stands contrary to what Zhu Su represents. We just look foolish for scheduling an event and then backing out a couple days later.

On a more general note, Based on the community response it does seem that this event should be cancelled due to the overwhelming amount of people against it. I still disagree with the idea that this should be an IIP though. Using an IIP to micromanage decisions made by the marketing team sets a precedent to open up any future marketing decisions to full community scrutiny and council approval/disapproval. This stands contrary to the general idea that the council should be making the 'high level' decisions governing the protocol but leaving the execution up to the team members who's job it is to make the day-to-day decisions.
The best outcome here would be for @signal aspen to just cancel the event due to the community response and not force the council into making an IIP for something where there is already such a clear community consensus.

vital onyx
small cipher
#

And this is where my contribution ends. Damn these wallet restrictions 😅

vital onyx
blissful violet
blissful violet
# blissful violet He definitely has some amount of audience and likely a lot of people that haven'...

I would really love to know, how this came to pass and if the marketing team really thought of this as great promo material or if it was more of a Kieran decision. I would have preferred this without a IIP, but if this is what it takes to prevent something, that the majority of the community (at least of those that know Zhu Su) perceive as potentially harmful to the brand, than it needs to go that way.

nimble imp
bronze wren
#

I was hoping to avoid an iip as well (hence why I didn't frame this idea as an iip), but just like the spider, it's what we have right now to make it formal.
It's still on my to do list to figure out a system around it.

blissful violet
forest hearth
#

Just for reference Kieran's twitter with like 7% of ZS's followers has similar amounts of average likes on their posts. Might as well look for smaller influencers with 10-50k following

small cipher
forest hearth
#

Im against the whole cancel culture idea as well but this case the downsides just way too much for the gains. If u get andrew tate or logan paul im all for controversial figures.

nimble imp
tawdry canyon
#

Kierans response in the iip thread is pretty rough. He really believes everything he wrote too about expecting council to oppose and he had some other level plan and we just didnt get it. Sorry you got personally attacked vetemor, was very undeserved

gilded mirage
signal aspen
# tawdry canyon Kierans response in the iip thread is pretty rough. He really believes everythin...

I've had this battle organised for a couple of weeks and been chatting to Kain about potential outcomes. So yes, I believe it. Secondly, I wasn't attacking vetemor I was asking him to refrain from making statements when he didn't have all the info. I should have seen the question prior and answered it, so that's on me but I'm not going to not call him out when I run the marketing and he is making a statement that not even we have discussed

signal aspen
crimson steeple
#

I love this DAO and how well it fosters idea generation, coordination and decision making.

coarse hawk
#

Completely agree we shouldnt engage with ZS, the risk is not worth the potentiel benefit

worthy sapphire
blissful violet
#

I'm very glad this was voted upon. After reading Kierans thoughts I still disagree. While this "controversial" aspect could have worked, I am not of the opinion that this is something that should be looked at only on a outcome basis.
I'm not sure how I feel about bringing this forward with the intend to be canceled in the first place either. It seems like a giant distraction to me and a emotional one, because as a lot of us see the illuvium DAO representing core values we want to see in web3.
Anyway, I only have one life to live and this discussion probably cost me a few days or more, so please no Sextapes next. 🙏 They also worked out great for some people.

versed siren
#

Update:

image.png
worthy sapphire
#

maybe a good idea to talk about this sht before making big reckless move

#

with the council

signal aspen
cunning hearth
#

I could approve of this marketing stunt IF we were in the middle of a bull euphoria and struggling for attention in the sea 🌊 of opportunity (like in 2021). But we aren’t at the peak bullishness right now, there aren’t many reputable projects, so we aren’t desperate to use a definition of a fraud - Zhu Su - to market our project.
Building and expanding in this market is a flex 💪 in itself.

signal aspen
#

Actually I spoke to Rich about it and maybe one other in marketing. It was also a battle that I was having personally, I hadn't even chosen the stage it would be on yet. The same argument could be made about us being in a bear and trying different things to gain the attention of new users

atomic prawn
#

I'm no marketing expert nor do I assume to know better. But I feel that it wouldn't have been a big issue if it wasnt made to look like an official Illuvium event. It could've stayed a personal event and the DAO would just need to distance itself from it making it clear it's not a sanctioned.

I would have preferred it didn't go to a DAO vote to change things. But we are where we are. Die has been cast. Let's see how it plays out.

cunning hearth
worthy sapphire
rough arch
#

Just read the articles in Cointelegraph and Stockhead. Nice job turning all of this to positive marketing. Good interviews by Kieran and Deraji. Having the IIP take place and the council vote definitely highlighted the power of Illuvium's DAO to the target market.

versed siren
signal aspen
humble otter
#

Thanks

fallen haven
# signal aspen As I said, this was always going to be a win/win. Multiple PR articles, DAO coor...

First off, I’ve always known you were a loose cannon but this Zhu idea —-just takes the cake. You are unfit to lead ILV and you have immensely poor judgement. All you did is expose your weak leadership and terrible judgement calls. You can twist this as a PR stunt etc all you want but it just truly speaks to how unfit you are as a leader in this organization. Truly sad for you to do this to $ILV. You arrange this event without discussing it with anyone. This is not just your project Kieran, and I’m glad the council was here to check your lunacy at the gate. SMH. Unbelievable

bronze cipher
# fallen haven First off, I’ve always known you were a loose cannon but this Zhu idea —-just ta...

I disagree here. It actually does make sense when you look at exposure only. It has also brought out the power of DOAs. To be honest I had no idea who Zhu is or was and don't really care other than to never take advice from the guy. Yet from seeing the comments in here I can see it was important to a lot of people to not go ahead with Zhu, the actual marketing of battling is sound in my eyes. It wasn't only Zhu. Kieran doesn't lead ILV he is part of it. I also highly doubt their was no conversation.

silk ember
#

There aint such thing as bad publicity especial when the main focus is the game itself = exposure

Could of gone down 2 ways

  1. battle went ahead, controversy created advertising the game. People would of forgotten about who it was with in 2 months time illuvitars would still be in play

  2. Battle gets cancelled by the DAO for not wanting to promote such a controversial character advertising the power of a true DAO and the game itself

The fact that it did get cancelled showed the true power of a Decentralized autonomous organisation and will set a positive precedence on what a true DAO actually moving forward in the web3 space

worthy sapphire
#

the DAO canceling a plan of the CEO is a good look for the DAO. but not a good look for the CEO.