#Revised Illuvitar proposal

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

karmic blade
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IIP-X Proposal for the Sale of Illuvitars
Simple Summary:

The Council is launching a new pricing strategy for its collection and album features, with reduced prices for standard and mega D1sks. Misprints and Launch Party Goals will increase excitement and rarity. The Illuvium marketing team has requested D1sks for promotion to make Illuvitars a more sought-after product.

Overview:

The Council has a new pricing strategy to make its collection and album features more accessible and exciting. Misprints, and Launch Party Goals are being introduced to keep customers engaged.

The proposed pricing structure is as follows:

Standard D1sks: 0.005 ETH
Mega D1sks: 0.025 ETH

Misprints: Any Illuvitars not sold during the initial sale will be considered "Misprints" and exceptionally rare. These misprints will be auctioned off after Wave 1 of the sale.

Launch Party Goals: The Illuvium Launch Party Goals have been created to keep customers engaged. The specific goals will be kept a mystery, but two examples are:

Community Goals: If 5,000 D1sks are sold, all customers who purchase a D1sk will receive an exclusive "Welcome to the Party" emote.

Individual Goals:
If you open your d1sk on week one of the sale, a special “early addopter” tag will be placed onto the illuvitars inside it.
If 10 D1sks are purchased, customers will receive a 10% off merch code.

Additionally, the Illuvium marketing team has requested 3,000 standard and 600 mega D1sks for promotional purposes, which the council has approved.

Rationale:

The rationale behind the new pricing strategy from the council is to increase accessibility and excitement for community members. By introducing Misprints, as well as Launch Party Goals, the council hopes to engage customers and keep them interested in their collection and album features. Using promotional disks is crucial for boosting engagement and maintaining the success of marketing efforts.

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This idea is a suggested revision to the currently proposed change to illuvitar sale, that make the whole product more inclusive to everyone interested.

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Notable differences are:

  1. Alpha disks don't exist.
  2. Their utility is transferred to the launch party. A stamp will be placed on early opened disks.
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Reasoning:
This aims to keep the illuvitar product true to it's conception, as being easy to enter and available for everyone.
However adding the stamp during the launch party will create incentives for people to open up their disks and not hold of buying to the end of the period wanting to know the total supply.
This way everyone is free to either hold the d1sks for future potential, or open them for the early tag.

open thorn
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Where can I find these?

Screen_Shot_2023-02-09_at_12.47.07_PM.png
karmic blade
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By adding alphas, the way they were proposed, we're introducing something more valuable, that will drive demand to the general product down.

karmic blade
stoic turret
# karmic blade By adding alphas, the way they were proposed, we're introducing something more v...

That is half of the sentence - drive demand to the general product down for certain demographics. There are rarity driven individuals, investors, collectors, PFP enthusiasts, general Illuvium community engagers, etc. Gauging for each of these groups separately demonstrates the impact of alphas on a holistic nature. You are correct for certain groups - likely rarity driven individuals and investors. For the other groups, the existence of alphas has no bearing, and the proposed changes in the revision actually make general product more appealing. Overall consumer profiles need to be considered.

noble garnet
karmic blade
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I also think that artificially reducing the supply is not needed. As scarcity will occur on its own naturally. When player base increases demand will go up, keys will get lots, etc..

karmic blade
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It's not good enough for Illuvium to just make something less numbers and more expensive to give it value.

somber river
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The existence of alpha disks provides a product that, while not appropriate for everyone, will find a market among the NFT pfp portion of our community. They are not necessary to play Illuvium: Beyond, but they provide an outlet for people who want to further differentiate their collections or profile pictures. As a DAO, we need to find a balance between revenue and user experience, and I feel that the inclusion of alpha disks is an appropriate middle ground.

For that reason, I'm opposed to the removal of alpha disks from the sale. I feel they bring value into the DAO that would otherwise not be captured.

Something that is not addressed by this proposal is that alpha disks are not necessary to participate in Illuvium: Beyond. The equivalent in any other game is a cosmetic microtransaction. It costs more, but doesn't impact other people's core experience. It's optional, and it's a good way to increase revenue. The current price point means that a much broader portion of the community can participate in alpha disks, if they choose to. No one is being forced to buy alpha disks, and again, they are not core to participating in Illuvium: Beyond.

Come at this from a perspective of net group benefit, instead of individual benefit, and I think your opinion may change. We need to think holistically about what's good for the DAO. That means not fleecing the community, but also providing extra value for people who want it, where we can.

stoic turret
frank marsh
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IMO the way the Illuvitar sale happens should have four main goals: 1) Raise money for runway. 2) Burn through as much sILV2 as possible so that future sales will have more ETH to raise money for runway. 3) Create a community atmosphere that encourages participation. 4) Create excitement outside the community to bring new people in.
I see your proposal as being better than the current proposal in only one area, #3.

karmic blade
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Please give me more info about this.

Come at this from a perspective of net group benefit, instead of individual benefit, and I think your opinion may change. We need to think holistically about what's good for the DAO. That means not fleecing the community, but also providing extra value for people who want it, where we can.
I really want to understand how my reasoning is considered selfish.

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For that reason, I'm opposed to the removal of alpha disks from the sale. I feel they bring value into the DAO that would otherwise not be captured.
I'm preserving the "alpha" idea as a tag. I'm yet to see research saying that selling limited number of something more expensive will drive more revenue, than selling an unlimited item for the proposed price with incentives to open in in week 1.

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I can also speculate that having alpha sale will make the rest of the sale less profitable. Because collector demographic will be excluded from it.

somber river
# karmic blade Please give me more info about this. > Come at this from a perspective of net gr...

I didn't say you're selfish, I said that you're opposed to alpha disks on the premise that you don't want them. Ignoring that a demographic who IS the market for alpha disks exists, and that we should capture value from people who want the product isn't being mindful of all perspectives. Your proposal doesn't capture extra value from that demographic, and that's not in the DAO's best interest.

An unlimited supply (or alpha tags sprinkled into the mix) will not drive early revenue to increase exposure, hype and revenue for the overall sale. I think it will result in more people waiting to see how the sale goes. It's incredibly desirable on multiple axes to have the sale start off with a big event. Alpha disks in their current format help provide that experience, and all the benefits that go along with it.

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Alphas are a first edition, it makes sense for them to come first.

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We could rename them to "sprinkle edition" or something if we wanted to sprinkle them in, but they would no longer be first.

karmic blade
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Wave 1 is already first edition. I think having the tags in the first week opening party improves on the alpha sale idea because:

  1. It also drives people to open in week 1.
  2. It won't allow hoarding if you like the stamp. It will be people's choice.
  3. In a way this targets both demographics. Those that want exclusivity, that will buy and open early and those that want to collect long term, that will buy late.
noble garnet
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What if we have the whole wave 1 as “alphas”. Just mark all waves with their corresponding number. That means the whole wave 1 would be desirable and considered as “alphas”/“first edition”? Bring back the pricing we already have to make them more exclusive. The coming waves can have lower price

open thorn
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I'm ok with the compromises in the current IIP in the gov forum. And I really like the price reduction. But I do like this idea better and think it fits with what should be the ethos of Illuvitars.

Let's make a product for the rarity driven individuals and not try to last minute bolt on to Illuvitars.

IMO illuvitars is best and will be very successful if it is going to be FUN and addicting and 100% focused on the community.

If this idea was to pass we could keep alphas but reimagine it and spend some extra dev time on it.

One idea to keep alphas but make them a unique product:

It makes sense to not bond Alpha's with accessories, so can't we have a unique image for these alphas (early renderings, basic art) and have them maybe signed by the artists.

I say release alpha after wave 1 (or in the middle) in a dutch action based on the tier of illuvitar. The pack will only be an illuvitar with no accessories.

These alphas can still be part of collections but be a unique thing unto itself.

frank marsh
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One thing I liked that you have in there is the idea of a merch discount for multiple D1sk sales. Even if it wasn't all merch. Every 10 D1sks gets you 5% off one plaque or something.

karmic blade
somber river
frank marsh
open thorn
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Also to be clear. Since it keeps coming up that people just want Alphas to change so that they can personally benefit. I am a DAO maximalist, and my ideas come from that perspective.

I can foresee launch day being more successful without Alphas.

Launch day being successful means more packs open.

More packs open means more people are drawn into the collectors mindset (the game that we spent so much time on with the albums)

I'm 100% fine with the whales to have fun and spend money and get value out of Illuvium products. Products that I will not be drawn to.

alpine dock
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Adding value in the first week is a nonstarter. Cannot happen

karmic blade
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With the latest suggestion in the kieran's proposal alphas can be held and not opened. This can mean no d1sks are opened during the first week. And no launch party.

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By allowing all opened disks to have something extra we'll create hype and traction. We'll stay true to our original promise of wave 1 being unlimited and available to everyone.

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We can compare the sentiment to price reduction => Everyone loves it. Why? It makes disks more accessible.
Sentiment to limited-run alpha disks => Not everyone loves it. Why? It makes disks less accessible.

vernal isle
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You need to incentivize ppl to open it, that create the hype about it by opening it not by keeping a sealed box. The early adopter should have bought it on day one, not at the end of the 3 month for the sake of investment and timing. You going to have most of ppl hyping into buying and revealing if you give them this stamp by reveal it.

karmic blade
open thorn
vernal isle
karmic blade
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It'll be scalper's paradise. First illuvitar product from the studio. Just buy everything and resell for more.

vernal isle
# somber river I didn't say you're selfish, I said that you're opposed to alpha disks on the pr...

Don’t you feel like there will be a huge wave of revealing by giving ppl the stamp within an initial period of time? Isn’t that the spirit of early adopter we are looking for, that reveal will create a lot of hype about the project very early on. That will make every single one wants to buy at least one to get the stamp. That wave will create a dominos effect early on rather than a lot of ppl wait and see how it happens, it could go well for the alpha disk, but the moment alpha is gone, then you will have ppl wait and see.

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This alpha disk is mainly good for ppl who only wants to invest. The early opener’s stamp rather than alpha disk is good for the project, however.
I’m fairly positive there will be more disk kept sealed rather than opened, if not a lot more.

karmic blade
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This is all verifiable. I hope someone provides some data like this for alpha disks to prove me wrong, not just have an opinion.

vernal isle
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Also look at GOT (game of throne) collector box, 3k unopened, and 2k opened, even though the collectors game already started. That specifically tells you more investors than actual collectors. You want more ppl to reveal and adopt.

marble niche
karmic blade
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Product will look bad if no one buys/opens/uses it.

marble niche
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i highly doubt that no one will open them^^

open thorn
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less people will

marble niche
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yeah but thats ok i think... i like the idea of keeping some unopened alpha boxes but i would for sure also open some of them cause i want the alpha illuvitars... but by forcing me to open them withing a week youre just taking one part of that away

karmic blade
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You're getting to hold first editions while opening them in the same packs.

marble niche
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yeah but the ones i hold will not stay alpha right? so why would i keep them closed then? so im basically forced to open them which i dont want but if i dont wanna loose the alpha status on them i need to

vernal isle
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The key here is trying to incentivize ppl to buy and reveal, create more hype , good for the project in general .

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A sealed box is creating nothing, but a potential good investment. But if your sales in general is poor, your alpha investment is not going to be that well either. What’s good for the project in the end is the key to ask and think.

marble niche
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we could argue back and forth the whole day and we wont get anywhere... i see youre points and i thought the same way at some point but i think both modells have there pros and cons i cant calculate which one would drive more hype or money and i dont think you could either since everyone has a different opinion on that

karmic blade
marble niche
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sure if we would do it like you want it most ppl would open the boxes bought in the first week but if thats a good thing or not i dont know

karmic blade
cyan crow
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I mean we can still have alphas. It can even help the hype.
If we make a huge launch party at launch day then just label every illuvitar from that day 1 as alpha. Every illuvitar sold in the first 24 hours is an alpha illuvitar. For every set. That means you can get alpha illuvitars only on 1/90 days (the first 1,1% of the time period). Price stays the same. Nobody cares that these alphas have higher print numbers. Everybody can participate. And (ignoring the fact that day one will have the most sales) alphas will only be around 1-2% (probably slightly higher) of a whole set. This is what I call a fair launch.
And if there is massive botting on day 1 it should not matter. It brings revenue and because everybody can buy an alpha D1sk means the bots don't really have an incentive to mass buy because if they inflate the supply they can't resell it at a high price.

That was my opinion on initial IIP yesterday and it is still my opinion now. haven't heard any argument why this would be bad. But seeing the revised IIP today I think they just don't want to change the concept. Only the numbers

cyan crow
# karmic blade I also think that artificially reducing the supply is not needed. As scarcity wi...

I only see a slight problem with this one. Scarcity will only occur as long as illuvium is growing and new players bring more demand. I think not many supply will be lost because illuvitars are on the blockchain and can't disappear (except for some rare cases where keys are lost). So we might create scarcity for our first set sales but in some years when we have a big player base future sales won't create any scarcity when there is no limit on the sales

open thorn
cyan crow
karmic blade
thick barn
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I disagree with the idea of just stamping the first week minted disks. I'll copy what I said on the other thread:

To me it's pretty binary, either 1/we price Alpha disks higher (a multiple) or 2/we just get rid of the Alpha Disk concept altogether.

If we push for these to be granted to the first minters for the same price, then guess what...they'll still be sold for 5x or more in the secondary market and the DAO would only have captured c. 1.05x of that value. Ppl flipping will be the biggest beneficiaries. If we hold the coin or just genuinely like the project, surely we realise this is not optimal.

So again, to me it very simply boils down to whether people are happy to have higher priced Alpha disks or not. I am ok with it simply because I think that if the project succeeds in the long term, then all of wave 1 will be much more valuable (Alpha or not)...AND we get the utility for cheaper

But if ppl are against having Alpha disks, I can understand the rationale too. I just disagree with any halfway solution. 1 or 0!

karmic blade
thick barn
karmic blade
thick barn
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Well then we come back to my earlier point: which is that the only viable alternative is to get rid of Alpha disks. You can't have it both ways. Saying that we should have alpha disks that cost the same price is actually just giving more value to speculators

karmic blade
thick barn
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The collection game and potentially the card game is the incentive. Not a fan of creating a differentiation that can encourage pure speculation. But this is just my opinion 🙂