Make it stack. The reasons are obvious.
#Pixie Nova
fading lynx
fading lynx
How about they buff all other dmg then?
Right now SF sits empty except for plvls bc pet classes cant party due to pixie nova not stacking.
fading lynx
A dp with 7 VMs or 7 Magus are still going to kill faster. It appears that there are a ton of really bad players that dont understand that class balance is a thing
Use another pet lol
I can see that people would rather sit in plvls then actually play the game
I wonder why the game population is so low
tribal latch
Use another pet lol
What's the problem with that?
fading lynx
Since I have the time let me explain to you a few things...
There are 5 levels of players on rappelz.
Level 1 : New player on a new account
Level 2 : Players who can effectively farm low level content. For example, Kaia lake, labrynth, circus, etc
Level 3 : Players who can farm in DD but not efficiently or particularly quickly
Level 4 : Players who can farm most content quickly. For example, DD, Vulcanus, SF, etc
Level 5 : End game players. This is probably 1% of the existing playerbase
Let's focus on Level 5. Level 5 players are rare. You could say that Devil Skeleton server has maybe 10 OLs that are at this level. Maybe even 10 MBs at this level. Out of the ENTIRE playerbase there might be max, 20 players who have perfect gear. Now... would pixie nova stacking benefit these people? Of course. But these people already benefit from having the best gear. They would have the fastest killspeed compartively to any other group. Why is this a problem? They have reached the top of the mountain. Shouldn't they be able to ENJOY the top? Should balancing of literally anything include these top players? Absolutely not. It would be an utter failure to balance any game mechanic around such a small group of players. This is as obvious as anything.
Now.. let's get into the rest of the playerbase.
A mediocre party consistent of pet classes that are at level 3 and level 4 would not come close to the effeciency and speed of a full level 5 party. You could argue that a party full of level 3 / level 4 players with this suggested pixie nova change couldn't out dd a party of just 2 level 5 players. The gap in power is insane. Does pixie nova stacking sound as OP now? Nope, not at all.
The issue I have with people dismissing this idea is they clearly don't understand basic game mechanics. Pixie nova has a 45 second cooldown. If you make it stack, a level 5 party will literally wait on CDs in between pulls. Continued....
Anything below a level 5 group would all of a sudden be able to GROUP together in SF and beyond. Right now these players are FORCED to join power levels to get exp because they do not have the power individually to level up w/o massively overpsending on growths/lgps.
You have every new guide out there suggesting people make overlords or masterbreeders. All of those guides suggest getting a wind pixie. So what you're telling me is that all of these players should get pets that force them to not play with other players that also have that same pet?
If you want to save this game you have to bring people together. There are a few players trying to do that now. @surreal talon I know specifically is trying to go back to a more traditional style party with a tank and any non pet class DDs. Making pixie nova stack would obviously benefit people at the top of the gear level, but more importantly would benefit everyone below them. With all of the damage increases brought to classes like Magus, Cardinal, VM, etc WHY is it a bad thing that pet classes can ALSO party together again w/o worrying about what pets they bring to the DP?
@tribal latch feel free to tell me i'm wrong
tribal latch
They can already form a decent group using different pets (BS, WP, spider, DG, hector) and achieve the dps of a level 5 player.
Why pay to gain experience rather than pay to have better equipment and be able to gain experience yourself?
fading lynx
They can already form a decent group using different pets (BS, WP, spider, DG, h...
This is a lie lol
fading lynx
Why pay to gain experience rather than pay to have better equipment and be able ...
Plvls are cheaper
tribal latch
so they just continue plvls until max lvl ?
tribal latch
This is a lie lol
Try it before to say that, 2 OL/MB with medium gear can clear turtle/buffalo room
fading lynx
I have. The investment is not worth the 1% extra per hour
tribal latch
So they're just chasing plvls rather than increasing their equipment levels to play themselves?
fading lynx
So is that all you have? People need to use bad pets so they can get bad exp?
tribal latch
Dg, Hector, EP are bad pets ?
People need to use several pets and not just WP, or improve their gears to need only one WP
fading lynx
DGs suck. Only useful at s5 on a BM. Hectors are not good in SF on OLs. This post isnt about MBs with EPs
tribal latch
I would have heard everything
Yeah s1 DG sucks with his skill +25% damage
Hector on OL also can deal the max damage at SF and TU but ok it's bad too
I'll stop answering, it's not a good use of my time.
fading lynx
yeah thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Telling people they need to invest in stupid things in order to get worse exp than a plvl is a great approach to an otherwise easy fix to a common problem.
grizzled brook
While I don't agree in concept to stacking pixie novas, a middle ground would be not replacing the damage with another pixie nova if it will deal less damage overall.. Then at least every other application of pixie nova is not a net loss without forcing only 1 pixie in the party.
Separately I think legend is right in the fact that a "level 5 gear" player with a WP and 7 "level 3 gear players" not using WPs would have a better kill speed than a level 5 player using a WP and 7 other level 3 players using WPs due to no stacking.. but I also don't think you could possibly balance the aoe of 8-16 pixie nova dots ticking at the same time
fading lynx
While I don't agree in concept to stacking pixie novas, a middle ground would be...
It's balanced by the cooldown and spawn rate of mobs
Putting 8-16 pixie novas on 1 stack of mobs then waiting 45 seconds is really silly...
Also, maybe my hyperbolic scenario wasn't clear enough. I am not saying that 1 top 1% player would out DD a party of 7 other players. But it's conceivable to see 2 out DD a party full of undgeared people.
Pixie nova ticks for damage every 3 seconds. It has a 45 second cooldown.
You could kill INSTANTLY with 1 tick and still wait for cooldowns
Also, i'd love to see the same people here saying it would be overpowered watch a dp full of geared VMs / magus / cardi's all attacking.
surreal talon
Wow, this is a great idea actually, ive been thinking about it for a little bit.
It will definitely help lower geared people a lot.
surreal talon
<@&751017559431708706>
out of all the ideas currently going on, this might be a game changing one.
grizzled brook
It's balanced by the cooldown and spawn rate of mobs
I'm not thinking about mob spawns, I'm thinking about the implication of stacking it on bosses. In your situation you now have potentially 8 undergeared players able to stack pixie nova on an end game boss like Phoenix and trivialise it
topaz kite
When talking about endgame group-play just play OL with ES set and double hek?
Probably the highest ks since you dont have to wait for dot ticks
fading lynx
I'm not thinking about mob spawns, I'm thinking about the implication of stackin...
They wouldnt kill it any faster than a group of geared non pet classes
You do realize Magus, vm, and cardinals do more dmg right?
grizzled brook
Yes but you've proven my point. The barrier for entry to playing an Overlord is maybe 10b to purchase a BS set and 2x WP plus some average gear. You might not get the +25 boots, full TDs etc, but you're going to be (all things considered) stronger than a same level [non pet class] character that spends 10b on gear.
So if the barrier to spamming pixie nova on an Overlord is 10b, and the barrier to doing good damage on a VM is 500b+ do you think it's fair to reward players who put in less money/time to gear and get the same result?
grizzled brook
It's completely arbitrary to say "15k str" because a WP with 5k strength and 10x the cp would do more damage
fading lynx
I dont think you know what youre saying lol
First you say its a 10b barrier to entry
grizzled brook
I completely understand what you are saying. WP isn't OP until you have it to a point where pixie nova becomes arbitrarily "OP" at 15k + strength
fading lynx
Have you played anything else?
grizzled brook
I don't even play a pet class, this is just a suggestion forum for constructive critisism of your suggestion
fading lynx
I made an alt cardinal that does more dmg than any pet class with equal gear
Same goes for vm
Same goes for magus
You dont understand enough about damage to say pixies do more than those 3 classes
grizzled brook
Okay so you're saying there's 4 viable non pet classes (including Merc) which coincidentally are all the classes that were balanced, how does this go towards the argument to say that pixie nova should stack?
fading lynx
Seemingly yours and everyone else’s opinion on this is that it would be too overpowered to have pixie nova stack
But what you and others DONT understand, is that other classes do more damage
With lower CDs
So should they nerf those classes?
grizzled brook
4 classes do more damage, with higher investment in gear, the other 10 non pet classes don't ?
fading lynx
Youre being logically inconsistent
Should they nerf the classes I mentioned
They do more dmg
Idc about the ones that havent been balanced
grizzled brook
If anything they should nerf WP to bring other classes up to par
grizzled brook
as this is a suggestion about stacking pixie novas
topaz kite
If they would make pixie nova stackable, ppl would cry about making every dot stackable
grizzled brook
At the highest end, stacking pixie novas makes an OL/MB closer to the same damage as a recently buffed class (VM/Cardi/whatever) and at the lowest end it makes pet classes (the most popular class in the game with the lowest barrier to entry) even better than it already is relative to other non-buffed classes
fading lynx
At the highest end, stacking pixie novas makes an OL/MB closer to the same damag...
This isnt true
grizzled brook
Which part
fading lynx
The classes I mention do higher dmg per second than Pixie nova at all levels of gear
grizzled brook
I don't think you've played Magus or Cardi or VM at the "level 3" which you mentioned
grizzled brook
Yes
fading lynx
I started a brand new character
With zero equip
Soloing dd3 faster than i did on a pet class
With same gear
grizzled brook
Can you post a video
And then a video of the same thing on a class with WPs
Because I can tell you, and I bet you everyone else in the discord can tell you, that the barrier to soloing s4-s6 is a lot higher on a non pet class
fading lynx
Are you on DS?
grizzled brook
yes
fading lynx
I will show you
grizzled brook
Showing me does nothing for the suggestion, post screenshots or videos so other people can see
fading lynx
Lol
I can show you the gear
And the ks
Of a practically naked character
With a 4s belt
IGN?
I can’t get on yet but ill add u
tribal latch
Before TU my BM is better than my cardinal (even though my cardinal has much better equipment), because the monsters aren't strong enough, or because pixie nova damage isn't reduced by the number of monsters.
and because I have the illusion of shadow on pets that can do instant damage
knotty kiln
Of a practically naked character
I dare you to do it with a wk, I'll give you 20b if you do it
fading lynx
I dare you to do it with a wk, I'll give you 20b if you do it
WKs suck
knotty kiln
WKs suck
Any pet class can do DD4 with a belt 4s, only with their pets, I don't see why the wk couldn't according to what you say
fading lynx
Before TU my BM is better than my cardinal (even though my cardinal has much bet...
Ive had both. Cardi is stronger with similar investment
tribal latch
Not before TU x)
fading lynx
Explain
Post your gear
For me to take you seriously, which I know you probably have, you at the minimum need a S5 DG, +10 harmony, harmony of life emblem
S5 DG on DS are unobtainable unless you make it yourself
tribal latch
Harmony card and gears juste give HP and mp:3
fading lynx
Nobody sells their S5 DG
tribal latch
I've maybe the first S5 dg harmony 😂
fading lynx
S5 DG costs nearly as much to make as building a cardinal from scratch
This is how I know youre ignorant
tribal latch
700b to buy my S5 dg
tribal latch
Just a 40/40 weapon is 1/2 of this price
knotty kiln
create a cardinal, and play with what you say 4s, low weapon, low armor, and upload the video, and stop using your mother's card @fading lynx
tribal latch
And even with 40/40 perfect weapon and shield, 1500 cp on my cardi
fading lynx
create a cardinal, and play with what you say 4s, low weapon, low armor, and upl...
I have
tribal latch
My BM is better until TU
tribal latch
BM lvl 235 and cardinal lvl 230
fading lynx
The cardi I just made has free buffs, +20 r2 helm, primal gear from cube, 4s belt
Give that same setup to an OL
or MB
they couldnt kill anything
tribal latch
Show us
knotty kiln
The cardi I just made has free buffs, +20 r2 helm, primal gear from cube, 4s bel...
I believe you if you record a video doing DD4, you seem very confident but you must back your words with something
fading lynx
I SAID DD3
knotty kiln
Ok DD3
R2 helmet, cube gears
Belt 4s
No Phoenix card
Tag me when you make the video pliz
tribal latch
And do the same with OL ^^
grizzled brook
#general message
This is about as much "evidence" as what you've given, and he's saying the complete opposite
fleet lotus
Since I have the time let me explain to you a few things...
There are 5 levels ...
Lets go 7x OL parties wow.
That must be funny.
Combine diff classes? No, we can take just 7x OLs
Dont forget to stuck Supernova
This game was broken couse of WP. WP and EP stronger than epic pets and you want to do them stronger...
I'd say Pixie nova bugged couse damage same when you hits 4 mobs and 40
slim ridge
A mid geared 3 pet class (9-10k str ol can be considered as mid geared in my example ), ol with double wp, ol with spider and mb with ep, can already capable of doing any kind of content including twilight (maybe except chaotic farm). Do you really want to replace this diversity with 3x ol with dual wp? It isn't a solution. What's your next move? Stacking supernova, maybe. Let's go 8 mid-geared pet class, shoot 16 supernova and 1-shot any mob exist
topaz kite
A mid geared 3 pet class (9-10k str ol can be considered as mid geared in my exa...
9-10k is mid geared?😂
fleet lotus
9-10k is mid geared?😂
Yes if it is total str, not white str
topaz kite
Ah okay. Yea thats mid geared😅
surreal talon
i was about to say, my shit isnt even average?
surreal talon
A mid geared 3 pet class (9-10k str ol can be considered as mid geared in my exa...
well bro proved a point here sadly
ive changed my mind now
its actually way cheaper to build x8 OL 5k STR
than x1 OL 9k STR
ask me how i know
id definitely do that if i could, make hella OLs and just stack the shit out of pixie novas lol
they will outdmg by far my 9k str OL :/
not 9k yet but close q.q
untold bronze
just open 6th-10th pet item slot already is enough
slim ridge
just open 6th-10th pet item slot already is enough
they'll do it someday, but it's not near future
magus vm and cardi are already can outdmg pet classes
knotty kiln
Pet classes are the best class, they can do practically everything alone, and they complain more than classes that are not balanced
tribal latch
Because nobody plays these classes
idle agate
Some things do not happen or change in this game. For example, I have been playing this game, every version, for almost 15 years. What we are actually talking about here is making the game easier, more relaxed and the number of players increasing. But I don't know why, this game has not given importance to this event for as long as I can remember.
slim ridge
Pet classes are the best class, they can do practically everything alone, and th...
no, they are not
magus vm and cardi can easily outdmg them, magus and merc are cheaper to gear up
the only problem is they can face with +12 mob dmg reduction, which is only case in sky
fleet talon
a OL can pull one million mobs, can tank those mobs and kill them without having lag out of hell, i think the are pretty op ;D
slim ridge
So lag is a balance parameter?
fleet talon
since its part of the game... yes
halcyon nova
magus vm and cardi can easily outdmg them, magus and merc are cheaper to gear up
the only time cardi vm or magus can out dps a pet class is end game gear up to that point you lose on all parameters
slim ridge
Vm and cardi, yes. Magus, no
Also merc can out dps a pet class in early-mid game gear up to that point you win on all parameters
So can we say merc is better than others? I can say that as the highest level merc, hell no
I don't know why you guys confuse about it, but cheaper gear, lag issues etc. These are not balance parameters for a mmorpg game
flint cliff
to hell pixie nova, fix hector's pneuma 😅
fleet talon
Vm and cardi, yes. Magus, no
if u are VM and u cant do dmg, because u 100% die cause of lag, because dura is fcked up, well...
slim ridge
I'm sorry but lag is not a balance parameter
fleet talon
its a game mechanic u cant change, so its party of the game
slim ridge
It may cause playing vm for sky almost impossible, but still lag is not a balance parameter
fleet talon
who cares if a VM theoretically can out DD a OL, if in reality he cant
a OL just can kill more mobs at the same time, fact
slim ridge
I care, any end game player care which is the case the number of mob you have to kill at the same time is not 76
slim ridge
a OL just can kill more mobs at the same time, fact
an OL is waste of spot for a party in TU
fleet talon
have to admit, bulls is a bit diffrent, cause u can use beastbane staff
TU honestly, no idea, u might be right at that point, no idea how many mobs u attack at same time there
slim ridge
depends of party style, 8-16
fleet talon
ok, thats totally fine 🙂
well 16 gets a bit annoying, but in a party the VM wont tank i guess ;D
slim ridge
he can, but why would he 🙂
fleet talon
well its was more about soloing, when u solo u have to tank ;D well or u need to use CC and kite, which does not work with lag 😉
slim ridge
I'm sorry but lag is not a balance parameter
btw, I'm aware why you guys think vm is unplayable. But still lag is not a balance parameter. That problem is not related to theoretical dps capacity of classes. It's more likely a QoL problem
fleet talon
sorry, but i only care about what is doable and what is not, so i wont agree on that point 😉
time for some vulc with my dimensional barb, someone want to buy 40/40 1h staff? i dont need it ;D
fleet talon
"It's more likely a QoL problem" i overread this part ;D quality of life problem? u think this is a QoL problem? seriously? 😄
slim ridge
What would you call it?
Yes, it is a qol problem which makes impossible to kill more than 16 mob with dura items. Also, even with non-dura item, it's still impossible to do 40+ mob
But believe or not it's not a balance parameter
Vm's skills should not be buffed because some "lag issues"
Yes, It's still a viable problem. Yes, It's still makes people impossible to play vm for sky content. Yes, It's still a problem for a attack party. But no, it's not a balance parameter. It's just a QoL problem. You can look at lvl table. Me (recently switched into) 244 and my Theilax 246 are the most lvled void mages. Do you really think this does not bother me? Yes, it bother. But still, it's not a balance parameter. It's not hard to understand
fleet talon
ok i dont understand, cause u smart and im dumb, sorry
rustic spire
And the other 95% of skills in game that don't stack? The real issue is class imbalance, its the reason you have so many WP in a party