DID/OSDD-1 System Chat

[paper crater]

Ooooo cool!

We don’t even have a whiteboard anyway

Paha

We do have a journal

Yeahhh

[rose oxide]

we are going to look at a car on friday and im so excited

[wind shell]

Sigh I hate being made fun of for my voice. I just got made fun of tons of time being called a smoker and asked if I do drugs. I just don't get why people do that

[wind shell]

Omg someone like us 🥹

[wind shell]

I finally got my sp profile looking cool

I won’t show it because some of that info is sensitive tho

[wind shell]

I kind of don't know why. But for some reason, we want to film a switch to be able to show people what it's like and to show our therapist. I don't know why we want to do this other than maybe just so people can see a little bit of what it's like. This is a confusing feeling we're having right now. Has anybody ever just Idk wanted to do that while alone to maybe show people what it's like? Admittedly, the people you trust, you know, but still I don't know this could just be weird feelings we're having right now because,we are alone in the house, but we're also not only wanting to do this if a switch happens, but we're scared to do it. Especially with such unpredictable switches like ours. I don't know anybody else feel this or have felt this before. Also if this is kind of confusing, I totally understand

[rose oxide]

we dont have very visible or noticeable switches, so not really. but can kinda understand

[wind shell]

we have a few

hypernova | @ 2 reply ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) we dont have very visible or noticeable switches, so not really. but can kinda understand

[hybrid skiff]

Film a switch? Im confused what is there to film?

Theres.. no really visible cues honestly. Except really for just zoning out and confusion but thats it really

I mean heavy dissocation can cause us to get tired and need to put our head down but thats rare and usually with alters with bad dissocation n memory gaps

[rose oxide]

maybe they mean filming how long it takes/the process to show their friends so they know what it is and how to help maybe? and to show their therapist for help or smth? idk

[pulsar wren]

Maybe they have more visible switches?

[wind shell]

idk it was just something that came to my mind ya know. I am curious what it may be like because I have seen videos of people doing it but its been a while since I saw one. Idk just a random thought

hypernova | @ 2 reply ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) maybe they mean filming how long it takes/the process to show their friends so they know what it is …

That is what were wondering especially since our host identity husband really wants to understand more so we feel like this might help him ya know

ArsonCrows [🌑🪶] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Maybe they have more visible switches?

Our host identity husband once found us on the ground in a featal position crying and he said we didn't know where we were or who we are and asked what happend because he was concerned for us because he cares and we feel like if we do something like this even once maybe it will help him understand more since he is trying to learn the signs and how to help us with this stuff more

V!rus |Ttgs + Pings yes| [🥀] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) I mean heavy dissocation can cause us to get tired and need to put our head down but thats rare and …

[digital abyss]

That makes sense

[hybrid skiff]

Ahh I see I see

[stable sapphire]

We've filmed switches before. Just to see what it looks like but there wasn't much to see just us zoning out but we were filming to see what it looks like when the alter now fronting becomes aware but those were switches we were able to cooperate to do

[weak basin]

GG @stable sapphire, you just advanced to level 11!

[pulsar wren]

Guess who feels horrible because someone in this system decided to drink coffee? Us. Very much us.

This is the second time this week

Someone needs to stop supplying us with coffee actually

[spring root]

To be fair, we use the "we/us" in our sentences a lot, and others just think if we are talking about us and our friends together, when they don't know we are a system.

~ Ellie☁️ (They/Them), host
✨ Shiny Sparkles System ✨

[ancient verge]

I don't have DID so I wanted to ask, how does it work? I haven't done a lot of research about it, and I wanna learn more about disabilities! :D

[digital abyss]

Lemme pull up my copypasta

ignore the "i have" stuff, i send it to ppl who dont know what it us

I have Dissociative Identity Disorder, an identity disorder caused by repetitive childhood trauma. When you are a kid, your brain has separate “parts” of personality or identity that become one part at the ages of 6 (if I recall correctly). When a kid is subject to childhood trauma sometimes the brain doesn’t get the ability to integrate these “parts together”, and instead, puts up amnesia barriers. The part of you that is sad is seperate from happy until they all become on personality as you grow up. I never got the oppurtunity and was in a constant state of dissociation, in which I have “parts” who hold onto the emotions, trauma, and other things. These parts over the years develop with their own personalities, opinions, experiences, etc. I have amnesia gaps and barriers whenever one of the parts, called alters, is in “front”, aka having current control of the situation and day to day life.

general overview

[wind shell]

We keep saying we so much that now in one of my favorite video games, people say, we, who is we and we get really embarrassed and honestly mute ourselves scared to speak for a while, then we unmute ourselves and be like, okay, let's try and make up for this issue and we say we again and give up

✨ Shiny Sparkles System ✨ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) To be fair, we use the "we/us" in our sentences a lot, and others just think if we are talking about…

[ancient verge]

Oh alright! I've heard of alters, how often to they happen?

[wind shell]

wdym how often?

[ancient verge]

Like how often do you switch (sorry if its rude :( )

And how do alters usually happen? or form?

[hybrid skiff]

Well switching depends on the moment and the needs of the brain. It depends on the person. We switch I’d said around 4 times a day? Sometimes we don’t switch at all and sometimes it can happen alot :(

Alters form/split due to trauma and the brain using that as a defense mechanism basically

Stress and such can cause it, splits

[ancient verge]

Oh alright, tysm for answering my questions! Have a lovely day/night :D

[weak basin]

GG @ancient verge, you just advanced to level 1!

[wind shell]

depends system to system

[hybrid skiff]

Mhm!

[wet willow]

and also depends on day to day. for example, weve had days where we've switched like 20+ times or just been super blurry all day due to no one staying in front for long, whereas we've also had days at a time with just one or two people fronting, with minimal switching. it's very different system to system, day to day and alter to alter /gen

(-Toms)

[wind shell]

Once was in the bathroom on the ||tolite|| and had a rapid switch of all my 12 alters within 2 minutes. I know i saw the photo I took of it to share with a friend who was helping me through the rapid switch

✩ ❝ [ami] ❞☆ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Like how often do you switch (sorry if its rude :( )

[spring root]

Ours really depends on situations, but most of the time we wouldn’t even notice that “switch” has happened, unless if there’s notes being made, product being bought that’s not in our vibes, or being mentioned by others, etc.

-Ellie (They/ Them), host

[midnight drift]

Entirely depends and it's actually pretty normal for people to not even notice they've switched.

For example covert systems* may not notice any difference at all due to the way their system is structured.

*DID generally speaking is a covert disorder but can be split into three ish categories of presentation.

• Overt: easily noticeable symptoms
• "Standard": noticeable symptoms but not necessarily easy to identify why
• Covert: little to no noticeable symptoms, high masking, even the system is unaware of itself

Systems can change between these states and there's always nuance, but generally speaking they will fall into one of these categories

general note
I see a lot of questions being asked and I don't have the energy to read the whole convo rn but I just wanted to point out in case nobody has:

It is pretty much impossible to make a blanket statement about DID and similar disorders. They are highly complex disorders by nature and this means it's extremely difficult to generalise because everyone is different

[maiden plover]

Does anyone else get this sort of dissociation where it feels like, for example, I know who someone is, like recognise them label wise, "parents", "(name)" "friend" "enemy" etc but I can't recognise them. They just don't feel like they're there, they feel surreal and like they're almost a projection

[rose oxide]

i do that with myself a lot

im too liminal

[green lava]

yes! this happens to us
some alters know who someone is but they dont personally recognize them as well. its a very weird feeling and is similar to the “i have this memory but it doesnt feel like mine and feels like it was planted into my brain, but i didnt experience it”

im hightened sense of dissociation where nothing feels real and feels like we’re dreaming, basically everyone and everything feels like that

[midnight drift]

Cleaning up my SP and I found this funny. Whole load of sections and then just..
✨Tom✨

[digital abyss]

Tom

😭

[pulsar wren]

I think the weirdest part of being a system is not knowing what the hell you’re doing and still continuing anyways

In the way where you have no idea when you started this task or where you got the idea but you’re not in control of your own body right now so it’s gonna keep doing the thing anyways

[wind shell]

Omg we have that all the time I've never had anyone talk about it

We like just continue whatever we're doing and only really question it internally. It's part of why we're so high masking it's like

"oh hey I'm walking to the shop. Damn I guess I need shopping I'll go do that then."
"I'm making pasta? Welp guess it's lunch time, I'm doing that now ig"

We do it with conversation too. We just nod and smile and try to get as much context as we can about whatever we're supposed to be talking about. When in doubt match their tone and agree

[pulsar wren]

Yea, sometimes it’s like that but also sometimes I’m trying my best to stop but I can’t make it stop, you know?

It’s, like, I’m only partly fronting but someone else is fully in front and they’re doing something and I’m only watching and sometimes they’re just doing something really stupid

[midnight drift]

Eek I'm sorry that sucks. I think we have that too just less often

[wind shell]

is fine

Alex - @Ping me! [✨] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Eek I'm sorry that sucks. I think we have that too just less often

[heady hornet]

Anyone got any tips for dealing with dissociation and switches at college? We're kinda struggling hah

[rose oxide]

have you tried staying grounded? i know music helps us a lot with work and school

we also have stim stuff on our keychain

[pulsar wren]

Notes. Lots of them. Basically start carrying around a pocket notebook and write your schedule in it. Write your assignments in it. You’re doing something? Write that. I did this in my last 2 years of high school and I’m doing it in uni. With switches, once you switch in or out, the biggest issue is the current fronter not knowing what the hell they’re supposed to be doing, that’s how you end up on the wrong side of campus for seemingly no reason

[rose oxide]

organized schedules w/ notes and alarms for classes and such would also be a good idea

^^ going off of arson crows message//

[wind shell]

have your timetable (with times and room numbers) easily accessible. ours is in an app and you need to find it within the app and then enter a password to get to it and that’s a lot of stuff to do for alters who don’t know things- so we added it onto our phone calendar last year for uni and it helped.

having music on that specific alters like helps us a lot because then they stay in front and other alters don’t come to front. we bring scented pens when we go places sometimes because they help us stay grounded.

leave notes on your phone/in a book with what’s going on, where you are, where you need to be at what time, who you might interact with (friends, classmates, teachers). things like “these are what name and pronouns you go by, this is your age, this is what time you go home at, this is how you get home” can help too if someone switches in and doesn’t know anything. we only do this when we’re really dissociated and confused but honestly we could do it more often.

also if you can leave the class to go hide in the toilets or a corner and take 5 minutes to try sort your head out then that’s helpful as well.

Rottzzwaoh ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Anyone got any tips for dealing with dissociation and switches at college? We're kinda struggling ha…

that’s long. :>

[pulsar wren]

I kinda feel like the only system in the world who doesn’t get alters I want

I don’t relate to the whole “I wish I had [blank] alter… No! Wait, no!” Meme or joke or whatever and it feels so weird

[digital abyss]

i think thats every system. u cant choose ofc, esp w introjects. 90% of our system are persecutors. we have like one active caretaker 😭

[hybrid skiff]

???? Wtf you mean alters you want?, I fear no system wants a fucking alter😭 I hope you didn’t intend this in the way that you think people want a specific alter

[hybrid skiff]

Well thank god😭 I dont think anyone relates to that except for “endogenic”

[wind shell]

Sounds like it but i get it no one wants alters but wanting to keep them if you become close is a thing for some but if someone wants alters that is a red flag

[hybrid skiff]

I guess, its still icky imo

[wind shell]

yes

[pulsar wren]

I’ve seen it in anti-endo spaces too and it’s so weird to me

What are you on about and also, why are so many people on about it???

[hybrid skiff]

Fr

[midnight drift]

I believe it's more along the lines of accepting you have alters anyway, so if you're going to have them you may as well/would rather have XYZ

I don't experience this but it sounds like that's what people mean when they say it

[pulsar wren]

It might be a joke tbh???

It’s a weird joke if it is

That and “I can’t watch a show without introjecting half the cast”

[stable sapphire]

Yea we've always thought that was weird. And sometimes when they conveniently always get the character they want like every single time for every movie or show they watch. Not fakeclaiming but just think it gets to a point

[plain pumice]

Could also come from a place of wanting a sense of control over a disorder that can feel very out of that persons control

[maiden plover]

The misinformation that you can develop parts just from consuming media is so incredibly harmful. Parts form from trauma and stress when other parts don't have the skills or ability to deal with. They can not form just because you really really like something and for no other reason. It's part of the reason that DID has turned into this "Having characters in your head disorder" and it also makes people scared to consume media.

[digital abyss]

mhm

[pulsar wren]

True, true

[pulsar wren]

On more positive notes, we finally got our hands on a fountain pen

One of our alters hates traditional pens so we’ve been wanting to try out alternatives. We’ve tried a brush pen before but we’re wanting to see how a fountain pen stacks up

At some point we’re gonna cave and get a quill and ink but not today

[midnight drift]

Intending on helping one of my best friends who I consider my big brother set up pluralkit today to help him understand. Unfortunately he's moving soon but still helpful

There is a non ignorable part of me that's excited because I made it so pretty :D

[pulsar wren]

Woah

That’s really pretty

[wind shell]

we have something similar going on with ours!

I could show the root but it’s a little personal

sorry

[tight flax]

I have been having this weird experiance for the past quite a few months and its like everything is off limits, ig like when you dont know your a system but I do know?? Like I know we have alters and stuff, i have missing memories i know for a fact I should have but I dont have them and its so weird,
Has anyone experienced anything like this because it is so so so frustrating, and when we began to figure stuff out our system was pretty good with communication and there was of course amnesia barriers but there were ways that yoh could be 'filled in' but now... its like i know we are a system and I can tell because there are missing memories and all of the past like 2 and a half years but its like everything has been cut off, i dont even really know who i am, I can make educated guesses but I dont know and its awful, and it may be from like our brain responding to something in the way it knows how but its so confusing and it feels so alone?
And im really confused so if anyone has any experiences similar please, I would love to know/nf of course but yea

Also sorry for the kinda wall of text

[rose oxide]

yes, its been similar for us for a couple years, we basically just assumed its because of constant stress/trauma, and we just called it a "lockdown" cause everything is confusing and such

[weak basin]

GG @rose oxide, you just advanced to level 12!

[tight flax]

Yea ok, thanks, thats interesting /gen

[rose oxide]

cause when our old host initially discovered was because of researching cause we were/are interested in psychology stuff, and they could recognize alters (we have no idea if those from when they figured it out exist anymore) then after a while it just kinda happened. we assume its from toxic friends & family, it might be from something else though

[tight flax]

Yea, thats interesting, this year has been super stressful for us for a huge array of reasons so thats a really feasible possibility thanks

[rose oxide]

amnesia/memory issues are terrible, but just kinda in this constant state of dissociation, figuring out whos fronting is difficult unless its an introject or they have some other very noticeable thing, can no longer communicate internally, can "see"/feel headspace but not leave front or go into headspace, but its just weird

we just gave up sp and pk because figuring out who exists and making profiles was too much 😭

[tight flax]

I know what headspace 'looks' like because I've been there before but I have no memories when I dont front I have no memories when im not in front of what is happening out in the 'physical world' j ahev like no memorg of not fronting if that makes sense i have no clue who is fronting when or where or anything like thata or if we have new alters
We had such good communication at the start of the year because a new alter formed who is a manager and everything was going fairly ok, and then nope no more

We also gave up on sp and pk

[rose oxide]

yeah

we kinda assumed this lockdown thing started happening and getting worse because our host(s) were getting too close to figuring out stuff they arent supposed to know. cause we've been getting help from a friend with figuring stuff out, and its kinda just getting worse, but also getting better at the same time and its weird 😭

its kinda working? cause we have had more people near/in front since we've started getting help from them

[tight flax]

Yea that's interesting

I hate that there are memories I definitely dont know its awful, and ik thats a fairly commen experiance here im guessing but yknow

I want too believe I know my life but uts obvious I dont and I hate that

[rose oxide]

we're going to be staying with out sister tonight and some of tomorrow, and we get to play lbp on her ps3, and we've been remembering nostalgic memories since we learned she got lbp

its nice to remember these things, but its so weird, cause how can i remember this from years ago but i cant remember stuff from 2 days ago

[tight flax]

Yea

[stable sapphire]

This happened to us after our therapist told our host he made it all up so everyone kinda hid but also in general sometimes they just dip for whatever reason

[paper crater]

Pretty description

[digital abyss]

ooo!!

ours :3

[wind shell]

Ours

Ugh forgot to change age to 26

[digital abyss]

do you use sp?

oo whos the artist for th banner

[wind shell]

Yes and idkthe artist actually. We love warrior cats so used this we found

[digital abyss]

ooo okii

[wind shell]

Fixed it lol

[digital abyss]

our pk

[faint solstice]

Warrior clan

Tag

🍪

Linked accounts

coolrockenpaws. (@heavy steppe)

Members (13)

(see pk;system grceyc list or pk;system grceyc list full)

Description

🍪 🎵 🍭 ❤️ 🍜 🐈
🐾 Warrior clan
🐾 Bodily age: 26
🐾 Pronouns: She/Her/He/
Him/They/Them/Themselves
🐾 Gender: Non-binary, Agender
🐾 Orientation: Pan-Sexual, Gay, Bisexual, Aromantic, Aroace
🐾 System type: Still questioning
🐾 Origin type: Truamagenic
🐾 Alter count: 13 and maybe some are friends of the Littles and host. Others are both that and protectors
🐾 Frequent fronters: Mama Grace also known as Mama Lukas (Host) Sandy (Co-host) Anastasia (Gatekeeper) Astrid (Original Protector) Julia ( Co-Protector) Fictives: Ladonia, Sealand, Sweden (Protector) Finland (Protector) Denmark (Protector) Norway (Protector) Iceland (Protector) But Protectors front the most
🐾 Dm (Ask)
🐾 Got questions (Ask)
🐾 Pings (Ask)
🐾 Don't ask for alters to front. Host and protectors will get angry if that happens

System ID: grceyc | Created on 2024-05-30 20:04:21 UTC

[digital abyss]

ooo

this is our pk

pk;s -pub

[faint solstice]

TOOTHVOiD

Tag

‎ ‎ ‎ — ?¿

Pronouns

　they / ask
╰　 andro / masc

Color

#131113

Linked accounts

endenary (@patent oxide)
.endenary (@digital abyss)

Description

-# “Three of us sleep next to three others”

ENDENARY or TOOTHVOiD
-# they / them / ask — andro
-# —
19 y/o　𝄈　tkn <🥀3　𝄈　iwc
-# ask to dm / frq — do not ping

ask to front — check per intro
pda / flirting — ask, adults only
source talk — ask per introject
tonetags — ask / use clarification

-# “it's hot and we rot in this oven”

System ID: WWGKW | Created on 2024-03-02 12:43:25 MST

[wind shell]

ooo that is a good one

[coral flint]

This is ours 😭

Our pk one is a bit more in depth

[paper crater]

I only made our sp one quite in depth because we only let close friends have sp but lots of people can see pk

The handwriting difference…

[digital abyss]

ours is insane 😭

[paper crater]

This is one of the little’s handwriting…

[stable sapphire]

Our sp desc </3

[tight flax]

Ours

[tight flax]

Our Pk one is quite in depth

[wind shell]

saw this and thought it was silly. /pos

[pulsar wren]

Ours is also a bit insane

I don’t have pictures rn but it can be really drastic depending on the alter to the point where we’ve had it pointed out by people that our handwriting looks really different throughout the day or from one day to the next

[digital abyss]

Started writing our names of who was fronting during the math lectures

[wind shell]

Our handwritings are decently different depending on who's your comparing, but we have some that are signed from our camp journal.

[digital abyss]

also this aint a good example of differwnr handwritings, we mask in class

[wind shell]

We don’t write physical notes in English a lot so we don’t actually have many but here’s Wren’s vs Mine

Wren’s is from one of our story notebooks cause that’s the only time we write in English

recently

Samir’s and Adam’s from old school notes

[maiden plover]

For me I don't think there's much difference between parts, but some are more attentive and patient and therefore will have neater hand writing

For example, these two pieces of writing. I wrote the ethical analysis on the right

[pulsar wren]

Autocorrect keeps correcting Hassib to Jason and I don’t know why

Hassib is very annoyed at this

I mention this here because Hassib is an alter of ours and I find this fact hilarious

[midnight drift]

Censored because I'm saving this from somewhere else when I posted it, not triggering. This was from before I really knew about everyone else

You can see my handwriting deteriorate the more I dissociate

-# Side note you never realise how triggering parts of your life are until you go through your photos from like 3 years ago 💀

Also if you're even able to read any of it you can see I'm giving very vague answers. Granted I would also do that when I was bored but not to this extreme

Also see on the section I highlighted blue I circled a key part of the question because I was having a hard time understanding it without a visual cue

I find it interesting :)

For example:
"What does deterministic mean?"

Example answer:
Being deterministic (in psychology) is when you view all behaviour as out of the individual's control, ignoring the impact of free will and conscious thought

My answer:
"No free will."

While technically correct it's also not really an answer

[rose oxide]

we've had different handwriting over the years, have no examples cause most of the changes were during middle and high school and we graduated last year

[digital abyss]

We have some fantastic examples of switching through handwriting

[wind shell]

Some of mine i took out of the system book for redoing bit keep because needed

[heady hornet]

Hola everyone! Anyone got any consejos (tips) on trying to tell people about being a system? We are not sure how to do it. Gracias todos -Mari

[stable sapphire]

Unrelated but our handwriting

[vocal swan]

Okay so some of my friends are saying yes to this some of my friends are saying no but can a person be diagnosed with both DID and OSDD and can a system have own alters with own medical conditions so I just wanted to clarify on here

[pulsar wren]

A person cannot be diagnosed with both DID & OSDD, if they are then one of them is a past misdiagnosis and is falsely on their record since the criteria contradict each other

OSDD’s criteria requires the person does not fit the full criteria of other dissociative disorders in addition to fitting the OSDD criteria

[vocal swan]

Ohh okay thank you for your clarification I appreciate it

[pulsar wren]

Your friends who are saying yes to either of those are grossly misinformed on the matter

[vocal swan]

Yeah

[wind shell]

I thought so. I saw in a facebook messenger group someone ask the same thing and someone told them yes you can have both and yes I have both and know someone with both. I wanted to say that is wrong ao bad but didn't to not cause a fight

ArsonCrows [🌑🪶] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) A person cannot be diagnosed with both DID & OSDD, if they are then one of them is a past misdiagnos…

[pulsar wren]

Technically you can have both on your records??? ‘Technically’ being the key word there. Example being what I said with one of them being a past misdiagnosis.
A psych with any knowledge of dissociative disorders would not diagnose both. There just isn’t a reason to

[wind shell]

That makes since but this person was asking if its possible to have both diagnosseses and then the other tried to justify why osdd symptoms and DID symptoms can be so diffrent both diagnoses can matter on your record when I'm like hmmmm ummm osdd is if you don't have DID or other disossiated disorders

ArsonCrows [🌑🪶] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Technically you can have both on your records??? ‘Technically’ being the key word there. Example bei…

[pulsar wren]

The symptoms are a near Venn diagram though??? OSDD-1 for example is if you almost meet the criteria for DID but lack either fully defined alters or amnesia

The diagram basically is a circle but DID is just a little bit to the left

[wind shell]

True but I explained that and the bit differences and they weren't convinced so I gave up

ArsonCrows [🌑🪶] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) The symptoms are a near Venn diagram though??? OSDD-1 for example is if you almost meet the criteria…

[pulsar wren]

I’ve personally had people try to argue that you could have OSDD/be a system even if you didn’t have fully defined alters nor amnesia and I honestly didn’t know how to correct them

[digital abyss]

OSDD and DID have different symptoms. OSDD has fractions of DID symptoms, but not all, and it would make no sense to say you have both.

OSDD-1b is separate alters but little to no blackout amnesia, mostly emotional and grey out.

OSDD-1a has not so seperate alters, but heavy amnesia including blackout.

DID has both.

You cannot be diagnosed with both, it's one or the other.

[wind shell]

exactly. That's what I tried to tell them, because the group rules literally say, don't spread misinformation. And the person kept spreading misinformation, and every group, and I'm like, okay, this is not gonna end. Well, the leaders weren't happy about that. So the person got told not to spread resinformation and then left and And we were like, why don't we warn you

[digital abyss]

Oh and to answer the second question, no alters cannot have their own medical conditions. Some alters can be more anxious, experience heavier or more psychiatric issues, but when it comes to neurological, no. If the body has tics, the whole system has tics. If the body has autism, the whole system has autism. Some alters may have a better time masking the autism or suppressing the tics, but because it's neurological, they still have it, the whole system does.

[vocal swan]

Thank you so much I thought that is well

[digital abyss]

No problem.

[pulsar wren]

I agree with toothvoid 100%

[wind shell]

i kinda laughed to myself when I told that person the symptoms in x y z, because I had just come from a therapy appointment, where I was literally told them cause my the therapist is nice enough to read the dsm five

[vocal swan]

I still have no clue whether I have DID or OSDD and I don't want to get diagnosed just yet well because I'm not ready to talk about my trauma and shit and also i hate doctors and I'm not in a good position rn because my mum thinks I'm making it up for attention and shit but yeah but I'm thinking of getting diagnosed in a few years time if I'm ready too

[digital abyss]

Yeah that'd be a matter of a therapist if anything. Besides, healing of the trauma is more important than the label of the disorder.

[pulsar wren]

I personally have digital copies of the dsm-5-tr and the icd-11, I don’t comb through them ever but they’re very good reference material for situations like this

[pulsar wren]

I’m also waiting to get my diagnosis, I want to finish Uni and then get into a more stable situation before I move forward with trying to get a DID diagnosis because my situation is anything but stable rn

[vocal swan]

Yeah that's what I thought I'm currently in the middle of being referred because somethings went wrong in my online referral so its taking a bit longer then expected too but its getting there

Oops shit

Forgot to turn @ off

I'm so sorry I just remembered

[stable sapphire]

Does anyone else like have alters try to front and say something mean/rude or just not appropriate for the time or place? Like for example in class this kid keeps talking over everyone and stuff and I have to like continuously fight to not say anything. It's like passive influence is being used to try and make me say something when I really don't want to. Idk if that makes sense

[wind shell]

I have before with Sealand and Ladonia they are spitfires at times let me tell ya

[pulsar wren]

Yes

[wind shell]

Any tips to help stress related dissociation?

[hybrid skiff]

I try to focus on other tasks to try to ground myself

[maiden plover]

Does anyone else feel like dissociation makes them less empathetic to themselves and also others because the negative things that happen to both parties just doesn't feel real and therefore doesn't really bare weight

[digital abyss]

We're high empathy but when we're dissociated actively, its kinda just zombie autopilot mode so were monotone

[wind shell]

I think we are kinda empathetic twords others but get confused about how to be empathetic. We also struggle with understanding many emotions and feel on autopilot a lit. We feel like we are disosiating so much that its hard to not feel lik if this is real life or a simulation and that feeling always scares us and it hurts our brain thinking if we are empathetic. Low key had to look up the word because we didn't know what that word ment

[midnight drift]

No but I'm a hyper empath so it's not frequent that I don't empathise with people. I can't really think of an example. Some individual alters struggle but as a system I can't say we do

Though empathy for ourselves? That's a rare occurrence regardless of dissociation

[maiden plover]

CW: Discussion of derealisation and death
I mean I have constant dissociation. I'm an empathetic person but that's because I actively try to be empathetic. But in the grand scheme of things, everything around me never feels like it's ||actually happening.|| This idea that ||people are being hurt on a large or small scale feels distant, like it's on a movie screen||. Therefor, my brain doesn't register it as ||human suffering||

Or even ||animal suffering, it's just a scripted play||

||Like you would watch people die in a movie|| and maybe you'd feel sad for the characters because they reflect something you relate to or they connect in a way that you understand, but you don't really feel ||mournful for their deaths.||

You aren't outraged that they have ||been suffering.||

That's how it feels but for everything

I believe if I was cured of dissociation, I would feel more empathy because I wouldn't feel like ||it's all fake||

[wind shell]

[maiden plover]

?

[wind shell]

heavy talk of derealization and death is too much

[maiden plover]

I can censor my part

[wind shell]

thanks

[maiden plover]

Is death or derealisation supposed to be censored in general or just in this chat is it better to? I forget what people generally ask for sorry

(I realised there isn't a list I can find)

[wind shell]

general, its heavy topics and hella triggering, esp to systems

the derealization is really bad for fellow systems

im not very well rn , so imma step back cus that kinda fucked me up , not upset ofc just info

[hybrid skiff]

that just seemed way too deep 😭 and yeah derealization talk is triggering esp for systems I agree

[maiden plover]

Sorry I didn't realise. I can delete the entire message if need be though I have censored it to what I think makes it not an issue if you don't read the censored parts.

[wind shell]

all good mate

[maiden plover]

Is discussion of dissociation not allowed here or just to censor it?/genq

[wind shell]

nono dissociation is fine its derealization that i personally ask to be censored

and death is a tough subject for all

bc the whole thing w derealization is it can trigger derealization

thats all

idk if that makes sense im tired

[maiden plover]

No it does, I'm sorry I will be more careful with those topics and keep them in mind in the future.

[wind shell]

all
good mate dw

[midnight drift]

Anyone have advice on helping body dysphoria for alters who have a different race/ethnicity to the body?

We are not comfortable at all making ourselves look like another race or acting like that race because that is highly offensive but there is a certain level of discomfort with our physical appearance for some of us.

For example we have someone who is an introject of a Korean person so internally has more slanted eyes than I (white/British) do. We will NOT do anything like taping our eyelids to change their shape so the only thing I can think of is playing with eyeliner.

This is just one example but if anyone has any advice or personal experience we'd appreciate it

[pulsar wren]

I don’t think there’s much you can do other than source separate

[pulsar wren]

Q: Our system’s become more covert after separating from an abusive situation recently. Is that normal?

It’s not silent just less chaotic and a bit less apparent

[digital abyss]

It makes sense. A lot of change is going to happen, and we're preparing for that for when we move out of our parents

[thorny jasper]

Oh, we had a similar issue but with gender instead of race. The body is female but Ozzy is male so he’s extremely uncomfortable when he fronts.

[vocal swan]

ive got a question how old can an alter be?

[digital abyss]

Any age

Ageless alters exist too

as well as age sliders

[vocal swan]

thank you 🙂

[pulsar wren]

We have alters who are internally as old as time itself

They are angel introjects and they’re introjects of specific angels so they have ages because those angels have ages. They don’t have exact ages but we know that a lot of people believe Gabriel is multiple quadrillion years old so that is a semi-canonical age, our Gabriel identifies as ‘as old as time itself’ ( like most of our angel introjects ) meaning a couple billion ( 13-15 billion ) because that maps to the Big Bang from our opinion. This means our Gabriel is younger than what he’s introjected from and I think that’s hilarious

[wind shell]

Wow that is so cool and I thought my nordic alters were old

[pulsar wren]

Yea, our oldest alter is S

[wind shell]

How did the age get calculated

[pulsar wren]

Estimates and source stuff. S is only a little bit older than the angels because canonically S is introjected from the progenitor of them so S does have to be older for that to make any sense
( they’re all very very source connected so it’s an easy source of info )

( pun intended )

[wind shell]

Ah I get ut

It lol typo

[maiden plover]

Like other people said, any age, ageless, age slider but something I don't see talked about a lot is having an age as a time period. In the sense of, most of my parts have no specific ages but are distinctly middle aged, teenager, child, elderly. I don't think this is uncommon to have but I do think it's not really pointed out often.

[pulsar wren]

We have a system expenditure report now

[stable sapphire]

What's that?

[pulsar wren]

List of expenditures made by the system

Literally a [thing] - [cost of thing] type list

Because we have a monthly budget and it’s a very small budget so if we don’t keep track of it then we will run out of money very quickly

Turns out living on a few hundred pounds a month ( excluding costs for housing & utilities + uni tuition ) is not that easy

[pulsar wren]

[ You’d think that’s a lot which is what the internet seems to think but all of our essential expenditures add up to the entire thing ]

[ so, yea, we can’t have idiots in this system spending money for no reason so expenditure report, highly recommend that ]

[pulsar wren]

It also includes budgets for things

Very great since amnesia barriers as a system make it hard to remember what alters have bought and when

They really don’t tell you that you have to do adult things as a system tbh. It’s always “system symptoms suck” and it took absolutely screwing up being financially responsible to realise “system symptoms effect your finances because you can never remember when you buy things”

[stable sapphire]

Thats fair and sorry we were at school then extremely busy and yea, I know what it means- idk why I didnt in the moment but I seem to know now but yea

[maiden plover]

Does anyone give that when they're mentally fried or tired and they close their eyes parts will start talking and you won't even realise until you snap your eyes back open, and on top of that, they'll be voices of parts you don't have, like you don't recognise the personality or voice and you definately don't have any additional parts your unaware of

[pulsar wren]

We have that but It's usually parts we're aware of

[digital abyss]

Yes yes yes!! We struggle bad with communication and alters or parts will talk. We have easier time communication if my eyes are closed , especially for visualizing headspace-- or best I can

[stable sapphire]

Our alters dont shut up half the time. Like trying to listen is class is like mission impossible sometimes. Not all the time but still a fair amount

[wind shell]

Are talk all the time so its rare to hear nothing

[digital abyss]

we havent gotten to the point of healing where we can communicate, but we're getting better

[stable sapphire]

That's totally fair and valid. I think we need to be able to communicate the way we do in our current situation so yea and it's interesting hearing how communication works for other systems actually

[wind shell]

mhm

[maiden plover]

I don't think it's new parts though, maybe parts changing or having fluid identities? I don't know. I can't imagine having any more parts

[rose oxide]

i sometimes rarely hear others, and its usually just one of our introjects of slimecicle 😭
its sometimes others though

[frank badger]

We almost always communicate through passive influence to express wants or needs.

[hybrid skiff]

Mhm same! It helps way more with eyes closes

[wind shell]

anyone got some tips on how to manage each alter's hobbies/ what they want to do cause we are finding it super stressful to find a situation where everyone is happy. for example, kai wants to learn to paint properly; robyn wants to start working on a local barn; river wants to learn ju-jitsu; ocean wants to volunteer at a garden centre; i want to keep posting regularly on our youtube and more but we dont have enough time to keep everyone happy, especially with exams

[digital abyss]

See what your schedule allows, or build a schedule if you lack one, communicate with your system about ways to accommodate to all wants, and make deals if things aren't possible to be able to satisfy all parties.

[frank badger]

We do this as well! Not everyone will be happy so we focus more on hosts and frequent fronters first. Then the others who may not even front during an activity.

[wind shell]

True you can't satisfy everyone especially if its a expensive hobby

[wind shell]

thanks for the help everyone!

[wind shell]

Your welcome

[pulsar wren]

Is the neurodivergent tea party pro-endo or???

At some point the entire server is just infuriating me

( for many reasons, not just that )

[midnight drift]

Endo neutral - they say it's too hard to moderate

Sorry for the ping

Ugh I was doing so well >:(

I wish I could turn off auto ping

[pulsar wren]

Yes but they allow very pro-endo talk and it urks me

[paper crater]

I’m sorry? “Too hard to moderate”…

[tight flax]

Yea, i left any servers like that that said thay

It was a little hard to find servers that i agreed with but im jn a couple that are anti endo

[paper crater]

Yeah. I managed to find one that I absolutely adore

[pulsar wren]

I left the NTP primarily because staying there would’ve made me go blind

Like, I was being pinged so often and it was resulting in so many episodes of me not being able to see that it was effecting my day to day

[pulsar wren]

I assume they’d say getting people to respect ping roles is also ‘too hard to moderate’

[digital abyss]

Real

[paper crater]

Omg I’d actually die if I was there

[pulsar wren]

People would ping me, a message would pop up saying “hey don’t ping this person” and in the immediate next message they’d ping me again

[paper crater]

Omg yeah. Most people I talk with daily will only ever ping me accidentally but I don’t really mind too much. It’s when there’s consistent pings + I’m already in a flare (chronic headache that flares to probably a migraine)

But also when they ignore my fibo autoresponder thing

[digital abyss]

They eyestrain can worsen our chance of a seizure ✨ we are adamant about not ppl not pinging us

we have a whole proxy for it

pk;m tv -pub

[paper crater]

We should do that actually

[midnight drift]

I dunno I had the conversation quite awhile ago I'm not really active in there. It's hard to have a discussion about science without it turning into a question of beliefs

I'm kinda just there to lurk but I haven't been active in years cuz it's.. yikes

I had someone who's apparently professionally diagnosed tell me that there's no need to use the phrase "anger holder" because "protector" is better. They were claiming all anger holders are protectors

I mentioned the alter I was talking about was an anger holder because I was specifically talking about his struggles with extreme rage - hence why the phrase was relevant. She insisted they're the same thing

As if being extremely angry 100% of the time results in you being a protector??

Idk crazy interaction

I tend to block anyone I see claiming to be an endo

[digital abyss]

It's super helpful

[pulsar wren]

The fuck?

[tight flax]

Jesus

[digital abyss]

giggling?? bro should know that u can make up your own roles 💔 bro would be fuming if they found out we are a system of 90% persecutors

sincerely, a professionally dx system 😭😭

[tight flax]

Actually I just looked, apparently im not in any system related servers other the simply plural one

[wind shell]

Same because our source is banned in a lot and idk why

(Pls@) ratsss|| ratbags sys ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Actually I just looked, apparently im not in any system related servers other the simply plural one

[paper crater]

Oop

I’m active in one that I love and one that I own. I’m in others but not active at all in em

[tight flax]

Yea thats fair

I find it really hard to stay active in servers, even like this one and stuff

[wind shell]

Why would your source be banned?

Emile Steilsson Iceland 🍪 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Same because our source is banned in a lot and idk why 📎

[digital abyss]

Some ppl bad "problematic sources" like you can control introjects

Ive seen things like Hazbin Hotel, dream smp, coffin of andy and leyley, etc be banned

[coral flint]

Yeah :/

[digital abyss]

its ridiculous

[wind shell]

Wish ya could - we would probably be a lot more open to source talk if it was

[digital abyss]

or have in introject of a real problematic person like wilbur soot and then the alter gets treated like shit

[coral flint]

They’ll also say like proxies shouldn’t have profile pictures from their source??

[digital abyss]

THAT

oml

[coral flint]

It’s a bit annoying

We are in the same server I think

[wind shell]

Dsmp I get banning talking about it cuz of how shit a lot of the creators are but ya can't ban introjects

Every generation has popular introjects to have, millennials have Harley Quinn for one

@s off｜TOOTHVOiD — ?¿ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Ive seen things like Hazbin Hotel, dream smp, coffin of andy and leyley, etc be banned

[digital abyss]

it is !! ah yes, let me change how i look, because the source is problematic and my existance is triggering

like my Psys has an introject from hazbin who never fronts out of literal fear

its lowkey ableist

[wind shell]

The source of 60% of our sys is probably banned in most places tho they won't say it. I don't really care to judge based on source, you can't choose it

[coral flint]

It’s cause they have a topic blacklist, and at first it was like introjects can talk here but not abt source and now they police the pfp too

[digital abyss]

another thing that pmo is ppl who treat introjects like their source

or like bring it up all the time

[coral flint]

We can’t just change their proxy avatar without asking 😭 most of them would be upset and/or feel ashamed

[coral flint]

Yeahh we’ve had that happen once eughhhh

[digital abyss]

Dude our bon is nothing like the walten files and he gets treated like a villian bc of it

[wind shell]

We want to start posting on tiktok but we're worried about naming ourselves and speaking because if we even get a slight following people are gonna accuse us of pretending to be them* when we're literally not??

*A lot of our introjects are from real people

@s off｜TOOTHVOiD — ?¿ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) like my Psys has an introject from hazbin who never fronts out of literal fear

[digital abyss]

bro is a cartoon rabbit 🥀

[digital abyss]

we post abt it on tiktok but dont introduce, we just do drawings of us w no intro lol

like this shit that gail made 💔

[wind shell]

Being an introject is NOT the same as pretending to be them - we don't even know them!!

[digital abyss]

exactly

[wind shell]

idk one person said they got messed with buy a guy who liked it to much but that just doesn't sound right

Soren | He/They? | ✨ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Why would your source be banned? 📎

We don't even wanna do intros we just wanna have sign offs or say "hi it's [xyz]" but we don't wanna change our names so people would definitely notice

@s off｜TOOTHVOiD — ?¿ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) we post abt it on tiktok but dont introduce, we just do drawings of us w no intro lol

[coral flint]

Yeah and even then, it unfortunate but it’s their problem

[digital abyss]

we also make stuff like this

[coral flint]

Unless it’s like a small friends server

[coral flint]

Woahh this is cool

[digital abyss]

dude thats actually so shit

being stereotyped bc of someone else's uncomfort is terrible. point blank. its like saying ppl named Ace DNI because i have trauma from a guy named Ace

[wind shell]

True especially since they said we could stay but problem even our names and profile pictures trigger so we left

Raven sys (||BIRDS) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Yeah and even then, it unfortunate but it’s their problem

Ikr its not like we in our system do anything bad

@s off｜TOOTHVOiD — ?¿ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) dude thats actually so shit

being stereotyped bc of someone else's uncomfort is terrible. point bla…

[digital abyss]

you should not be treated like that

u should tell any person to dni bc u have trauma from a name

you remove yourself and work on it urself

dont make others uncomfortable

ill stand by that til the day i die

[wind shell]

What they also need to do is say xyz is banned in group but it is said nowhere and yeah true were nice

@s off｜TOOTHVOiD — ?¿ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) you should not be treated like that

[digital abyss]

please stop pinging me

[wind shell]

ok

[digital abyss]

it says @s off

[wind shell]

I mean you can still have that trigger and boundary but set it in a healthy way?

For example a good friend of our best mate has a super triggering name that we just can't stand to hear. Solution? Just gave him a nickname and asked if it's ok to use that when I'm around and he said yes

It's basic decency to ask for a polite and reasonable accomodation

@s off｜TOOTHVOiD — ?¿ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) dude thats actually so shit

being stereotyped bc of someone else's uncomfort is terrible. point bla…

Sucks ass because we helped the person who made it a trigger pick his name!! Went thru like 200 names only for it to end up as a trigger 🙄

[paper crater]

I fucking hate when people do that. Like. Sorry but no one can choose who they introject and the problematic person was likely introjected when they weren’t known to be problematic.

[coral flint]

Yeah with close friends and stuff that’s what we do

[digital abyss]

thats what i meant

[digital abyss]

thiss

[coral flint]

Yeah, our Wilbur introject freaked out when he found out about everything and he goes by Nicolas now

[paper crater]

Ours source separated before I was even aware he existed 😭

Safe to say he was glad he was source separated when he found out

[coral flint]

We get embarrassed sometimes cause we have a few introjects from one source, but when I think about what was happening when we were fixated on it it lowkey makes sense

We haven’t split in a while (I think) and it’s nice

[paper crater]

Oh yeah. I’m always like “ugh wish I didn’t have so many introjects” but when I look into it, it makes sense

[vocal swan]

Ooo so cool I wanna start doin art and shit again but I haven't had the time lol

[maiden plover]

Holy fucking shit endos saying that online syscourse is oppression is sending me lmfao

Told someone not to compare endogenic syscourse to homophobia and they were like "both are oppressed" like bro, what are you on about

[digital abyss]

endos saying anti-endos are ableist is sending me buddy your the ableist one here 😭💔

[digital abyss]

(nobody here its at endos)

[maiden plover]

They're not even disabled, so they claim

I mean they could be disabled in other ways but endos consistently are like "we aren't claiming to have DID or be disordered" okay buddy, then you aren't disabled and you don't face ableism

[digital abyss]

literally 😭😭😭

[wind shell]

-# small text cuz I hate interrupting but I finally went and edited every displayname so we have a proper system tag instead of manually typing it into every name

[pulsar wren]

That’s why I don’t believe them when they say that

I am 100% the entire point of endos is to just steal the experiences of disabled people for themselves and that’s why they say it’s ableist

Because they know these are things only actually disabled people can experience

But that’s just conjecture and my opinion

Either that or they don’t know what ableism actually means

Which means they’ve somehow not spent 2 seconds in the disabled community

[rose oxide]

we just dont understand endos, or whatever logic they try to use with it

[midnight drift]

I'm of the opinion that anyone who is pro endo is, either accidentally or not, anti recovery.

The only people who are truly a system without trauma (bar religious experiences) are systems with enough amnesia that they cannot remember their trauma.

I've seen some people say they're not saying they're not traumatized but that their system isn't a result of it and/or is not a disorder. Again, anti recovery. Experiencing enough dissociation to have multiple parts of yourself is a disorder

Spreading the idea that you can be a system without trauma reinforces people's amnesia and denial and stops them from getting the help they need because they don't even think there is a problem to begin with

[maiden plover]

Religious experiences also can't be equated to having multiple identities. Endos claim to not harm people with DID/OSDD because they aren't claiming to have DID/OSDD but the usually use the same terms and express the same fantastical concept of DID that is created in the media. Like no, I'm not gonna subscribe to your narrative. I don't give a fuck if how you feel. You're spreading disinformation stemming from a real disorder.

[rose oxide]

i feel like some people also just dont understand the extent of what trauma can be, because they dont put in the time to research it. and also people dont understand the extent masking and dissociation can go, so people are experiencing these things and they feel like theyre "not traumatized enough" or "not disordered enough" because of things like this, and go down the route of endogenic spaces due to that. because with heavy masking and dissociation, especially with a covert system, and ones that are covert even to themselves, it can feel like youre not disordered enough, or that you havent experienced those things "enough" to have did/osdd

and also just the fact that when people think of disordered they dont think you can still be functional at times while having a disorder. which isnt true, you can work towards functionality, and you can also experience high masking and other symptoms that makes it seem like youre functional, when you arent. and it can fluctuate too

[pulsar wren]

‘Religious experiences’ possession, channelling, etc. are usually 1. Temporary 2. Not part of the person aka not similar at all to alters 3. For a specific ceremonial purpose ( ex. channeling, neu/pos spirit possession ) or a negative thing ( ex. demonic/neg spirit possession )

[pulsar wren]

Endos also sometimes are just mistaking regular human experiences for multiplicity

Like, I was talking to someone the other day and I pointed out the psychological concept of wearing hats and how that’s similar to how some endos and similar talk about their ‘multiplicity’

They said “isn’t that just normal?” And I was, like, yea. Exactly.

[pulsar wren]

Btw, this isn’t a medical concept, it’s more of a colloquial one but I’ll try to explain it best I can:
A lot of people describe the concept of wearing different metaphorical ‘hats’ in different situations like at work you’ll wear your work hat and with your kids you’ll have your parent hat. It’s still the same person but it’s literally just them switching how they present outwardly to benefit the current situation like wearing an appropriate outfit for an event but mentally

This can also be seen in the colloquial concept of ‘customer service mode’

[rose oxide]

yeah, ive heard of people claiming their sub-personalities as some form of multiplicity or like a new identity thing instead of just how the human mind normally works? its pretty normal to act different around different people or in different places.

it really confused me tbh

[pulsar wren]

Yea, i find those people odd af cause they usually have a superiority complex against endos but also they’re not that different

[rose oxide]

yeah

the first time i heard it i was just like "is this supposed to be another endo thing??" cause i was with my friend and we were both so confused

[stable sapphire]

We left just now cause its so bad. We had a friend there and we were good but it was the person arguing with everyone about why endos are valid and we confronted them and they just kept saying stuff that doesnt make sense so I think it's better to give up on the server atp 😭

[rose oxide]

dang

[pulsar wren]

We gave up within 11 days of joining so…

[wind shell]

I always feel like endos argue with me all the time and have no reason to. One time we had a bad episode and rapid switch then when someone came up to help and saw our phone which we recorded the switch and said owe that isn't real. Like how do they know and then they said you must be endo and I said ah ah ah ah ah please don't acuse me if that and we walked away

[stable sapphire]

They said they were born with plurality and created half their alters 😭

[stable sapphire]

oof

[rose oxide]

how does that even work

that doesnt make sense 😭

[paper crater]

“Born with plurality?”

Do they mean ego states…? As in the things that fail to integrate and thus turn into dissociative parts when sufficient trauma and dissociation occurs?

[rose oxide]

idk 😭

but im pretty sure its not possible to be born with alters? that wouldnt even make sense, as your brain is still developing for the first few years of life.

so fully formed alters cant happen

[maiden plover]

Also some endos just don't understand it. I was trying to explain to one that like, what they're claiming requires substantial evidence because it is literally asserting that the current medical model and child psychology, formed from decades of research is wrong and then would have to offer a new model. That requires a substantial amount of research and proof that they do nto have and can not provide. It isn't just an "I feel this way situation" because it literally would flip the medical understanding of how human identity works and forms.

They said that thats nto true and the medical model can still exist in tandom with non-pathologised systems but the thing is, it can't. Not in its current state. Do they know how much more complex and different it would be if we found out that you could for example, have tulpas, have religious figures form into people identities, be born with full formed seperate identities, etc of what they claim. It would not only mean that the theory of ego states is wrong but also that the concept of identity becoming one after childhood would also be entirely flipped around. None of it would make sense if endos are correct.

And here's the thing, it could be correct, its possible like everything else. But it is only going to be accepted and considered when theres actualy evidence to back up an extraudinary claim.

[pulsar wren]

We would have to come up with a model that supports the idea that one can be born multiple, become multiple through trauma, willingly become multiple, and more so a singular model would have to figure out why this ‘multiplicity’ can be willing and unwilling, natural and a survival response and fun, a hindrance to day to day life and completely not from the onset, it’s just not possible

[midnight drift]

Btw ego states is a theory that was debunked a long time ago, so no they can't even claim that

It's more accurate to say emotions or needs are semi separate to young children (hence why their emotions can snap around so fast)

Keynote, semi separate

[maiden plover]

Sorry can you provide evidence on ego states being debunked?

[midnight drift]

Replying so I don't forget -

I don't have anything on hand and I've got a busy day but if I get a sec I'll see if I can find it. I remember it as part of studies like 3 years ago so there's a chance I could be wrong but I'm pretty certain.

[maiden plover]

From what I know, ego states as a theory has not been debunked but is subject to criticism. Primarily with some concepts the have derived from it.

But the entire theory itself still mostly holds up. There is also some criticism of it lacking enough empirical evidence

[rose oxide]

ive seen some endos and their supporters claim that endo systems do exist and theres medical proof but ive never had anyone give me proof from a trustable source. only that it "has medical proof". and ive also seen people argue against the dsm and icd for various reasons, usually because "they change it so often" which confuses me because of course with more research and understanding into things theyll want to update the official things??

[pulsar wren]

They do not change it that frequently 😭

There’s usually 20 years between them aside from the TR editions which have half that time but are for more minor changes

[rose oxide]

yeah

ive also seen CDD deniers use that same excuse

[pulsar wren]

Eh? The last edition didn’t change any of the criterion for any CDDs, the most significant change was made to the autism criterion, the last time they changed CDD criterion for the DSM was 2013

( I say significant because it’s one of those changes that would potentially make certain people who had an autism diagnosis via the DSM-5 not meet the TR criterion due to the specifier changing to say all the social criterion had to be met instead of keeping it vague )

[pulsar wren]

The changes made were as follows btw:
-> drd was changed to dpdr
-> dissociative fugue was removed
-> it was specified DID symptoms could be self-reported as well as expanding the scope of experienced amnesia to specify that DID amnesia includes all events & facts

None of these are that big of overhauls tbh ( they are important but they aren’t completely changing the criterion )

[rose oxide]

yeah idk

people are weird

tbf that was also on a roblox game where haters/trollers typically go to harass people, so i wasnt that surprised lol

[pulsar wren]

Tbh, Roblox was your first mistake

[rose oxide]

yeah

that was a long time ago

i dont really play roblox anymore

its a hellhole honestly

[paper crater]

Oh-?

I thought ego states where what failed to integrate. My sources must be outdated

[rose oxide]

i also thought thats what ego states were

cause we only know of the theory of structural dissociation (with the ego states not integrating due to trauma/dissociation and creating alters/parts), so if theres something else id like to know?

[paper crater]

Yeah!

[midnight drift]

Hm I may have misremembered or research may have changed since what I was taught in college.

I don't have the energy to read tonight but I'll see what I can sort out tomorrow, I'm interested to see what the difference in opinions came from

[paper crater]

Ok

[maiden plover]

People will say that endos and like 'multiplicity from religion' has been "documented" as if anecdotes are equivalent to decades of research and empirical evidence.

[wind shell]

Ugh I think someone who harassed the twitch streamer I am watching just tied to pretend to have DID as a way to get away with making fun of the streamer. It feels fishy not that I am personally judging just seems off to me

[wind shell]

Yup they were faking it. Ugh I blocked them for harassing me

[maiden plover]

Even if they did have DID, they still have to take accountability with how their parts behave. They may not feel like them but they are still part of them as a singular identity.

[wind shell]

Anyone else prefer parts over alters but feel like they have to use alters online cause most people do?

[coral flint]

Not really, we don’t tend to feel pressure luckily
We use them interchangeably depending on what feels right for each person and in the moment

[wind shell]

it’s the one thing we feel pressure about

cause people also seem to assume using parts means are parts are less distinct / less separated but they’re very much opposite

for us, I mean

we have an odd sys structure

we function on a 4 host pair basis

which I’ve never heard anyone else have

[digital abyss]

yes omg yes we almost always say parts

some of us say alters but we often say parts, especially when talking about it irl

our goal is final fusion anyways, it kinda helps unintentionally not seperating us more? kinda? idk lol

[vocal swan]

yall ive got a question i just saw this live stream of a person claming the they are a 'traumaendo' system and then i was like that aint a thing i dont think it is anyway and then people were going you aint a system if you are an endo and then they were like i am both traumagenic and endogenic so im traumaendo but now im questioning it can you be a system with traumagenic and endogenic origins, i still think you can't but i kinda want to see what others think or say or opinions on it

[paper crater]

Generally in this server, we don’t believe that endo origins can exist at all. If you formed from trauma, you formed from trauma. Any level of stress can be enough to cause splits

What sort of endo origins are you talking about?

[vocal swan]

im not sure i didnt pay close enough attention to what they were saying but it was a live stream and they had a little introduction box thing that said we are a traumagenic and endogenic system and i was like tf, that aint true but now ive looked it up and there is different views on it and personally i dont think that it exists

eeek sorry no pings!

[paper crater]

Oh right yeah

Ok

No

Got myself confused

But yea you’re right to think it can’t really exist with current scientific knowledge

[vocal swan]

yeah 🙂

[pulsar wren]

Traumaendo is often the most ‘this person is confused about systemhood’ thing

Like, some folks use it cause they think their trauma enough for their systems complexity or for their system. Because they don’t remember the trauma for some alters and think they formed endo then. Because some of their alters formed from stressed and they don’t think that’s trauma. Or straight up because they’re endo and misinformed as shit

Endogenics don’t exist in any form

Even if they claim some trauma the fact they’re also claiming they’re endo in some way means they’re still somehow wrong about something

[rose oxide]

we think that system origin labels are stupid, personally

mostly because it can be a really toxic mindset for some people, and it also creates confusion. and just makes me feel like people dont actually know what trauma is and how it affects people differently, and how people experience things differently and all of that

[pulsar wren]

Don’t blame us for system origin labels tbh

Blame endos who decided who completely ignore how trauma and the brain works and create a million origin labels because idk

[rose oxide]

yeah

i once met someone who claimed to be "multi origin" and like mainly "neurodivergence origin" but also traumagenic and endogenic because of the "non-trauma origins"
and it was so confusing

[wind shell]

See I get where your coming from. Lables are honestly good for so many things but this person is using them wrong/sound like they are for attention and if they truly think they are all and have no idea they can't be all then its ok everyone learns one day but if theirs using it for attention or to piss people off then omg they need to stop. Like for example I always wondered what kinda system we were because it helped us put together the pieces that make us us and now that we know it helpes us feel more confident in ourselves but I get we don't need lables for everything other wise my host identity would be non binary not conforming to a gender lable

ryft \ hyper | please ping ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) i once met someone who claimed to be "multi origin" and like mainly "neurodivergence origin" but als…

[rose oxide]

i think origin labels arent really something people need to be sharing to the public at all. like why does it matter? why are you putting that out to the public to see? especially when some of them can create toxic or unhealthy mindsets or confusion

[midnight drift]

Not personally but I think it absolutely has it's place. I personally prefer alters as we have a specific interest in feeling individuals in a healthy way and parts to us feels less like that. But I absolutely think people who choose to use parts are also valid

[stable sapphire]

We prefer alters. Many people don't like it but we prefer to see ourselves as different from each other while also knowing and acknowledging we are parts of one whole

[midnight drift]

I tend to find people who say they're "multi origin" are stuck on specifics that aren't there in the medical world. They usually say some alters split due to trauma and some didn't making them a mix. Once again endogenic sys rhetoric causing confusion imo

Also saw someone spreading a type of endogenic being caused by the inherent trauma of growing up neurodivergent. To me that means having a superiority thing with different types of trauma and implying only familial abuse counts as trauma and any other type is less traumatic in some way

[rose oxide]

yeah

[midnight drift]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - spreading the idea that a system can be non traumatic in origin only harms systems looking for help/answers

[rose oxide]

yeahhh

people just dont research trauma enough, or because of their own ableist/superiority views they just try to separate things into "more or less traumatic" depending on the topic. which just isnt how trauma/stress or the mind works

[wind shell]

I’m kind of giggling cause I straight up said “I feel people assume using parts means we’re less individual when it doesn’t have to mean that” and then everyone proceeded to prove my point /lh /nm ( light hearted, this is a little jest )

Alex - @Ping me! [✨] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Not personally but I think it absolutely has it's place. I personally prefer alters as we have a spe…

[midnight drift]

I may have misphrased! I personally don't have any opinion on how other people refer to themself and read the words with the same definition in my head. I was more expressing that when it comes to referring to me and my system, as have a personal preference of 'alters' :)

[plain pumice]

As someone who deeply struggles with acceptance and acknowledgment of the possible system I tend to use phases like ‘the others’ or ‘other people’.
This also help the people who really struggle with feeling like there not a person.

[midnight drift]

I also use "the others"/"other people" regularly and if anything use it more often than alters.

A pretty common sentence for me discussing another alter could look like "yeah someone else has an issue with the shirt I'm wearing today"

I think there's something to be said about personal opinion on your identity. Everyone has a right to have a preference on what words are used to refer to them, so long as they're not offensive.

[maiden plover]

What's funny is. Many parts will not remember the trauma that caused them to turn and that's the point. Not every parts will innately remember what happened. It's compartmentalized for a reason

[maiden plover]

And then they say some dumb shit like "but look, the DSM5 and ICD11 doesn't require trauma!", completely ignoring the reason being that having a condition that involves dissociative amnesia, especially relating to trauma, and then expecting patients to remember said trauma is unrealistic. The trauma is assumed by most medical professionals.

[midnight drift]

That's a false statement

ICD-11, dissociative identity disorder (under course features):
"Onset of Dissociative Identity Disorder is most commonly associated with traumatic experiences, especially physical, sexual, and emotional abuse or childhood neglect. The onset of identity changes can also be triggered by removal from ongoing traumatizing circumstances, death or serious illness of the perpetrator of abuse, or by other unrelated traumatic experiences later in life."

There are also other quotes that explain this further and there are no other origins suggested - as well as the SCID-D (reccomend diagnostic tool) specifically asking about traumatic events in life repeatedly

I agree many people do not remember their trauma and saying that can have DID without it prevents people from recieving the help they need

[paper crater]

Hold on-
“The onset of identity changes can also be triggered by removal from ongoing traumatising circumstances”…
That makes so much sense as to why we discovered stuff when we did

[pulsar wren]

Yea, when things get more calming the system has less of a reason to me covert

[paper crater]

Yeah, it was a few days after moving out host at the time started hearing voices, then a month later the system got revealed to him. And it got even less covert after the court ruling that we didn’t have to go back

[vocal swan]

hey sorry can you censor ||'Phyiscal, sexual, emotional abuse or childhood neglect'|| please /lh /gen

[midnight drift]

What exactly do I censor it under? There are absolutely no details and it cannot be more brief. I do understand it can be difficult to read but censoring is for triggers and not just uncomfortable topics. If I censor it the trigger warning would then make it redundant

[vocal swan]

fair its just some of them are kinda trigger words for me and im sure for other people to so im not sure

[paper crater]

If just the words trigger you then I think it’s something you need to work on with your therapist if you have one. In depth talks of the topics are expected things to be triggers for people, but people should be able to handle the words being said /lh/nbr

[midnight drift]

I do understand it can potentially be uncomfortable but if a flashback/panic attack/episode is triggered simply by the word "abuse" I'm not sure what I can do to help?

Censorship only works when you can use an alternative phrase to avoid the trigger so someone can choose to view the content or not. Example:
Tw Medical: ||blood tests||
Tw Holiday/seasonal: ||Christmas||
Ect

I'm more than happy to help with triggers when I can but I don't know how I could help in this case

[vocal swan]

Your right im just having a bad day where all my triggers are high, sorry for any inconvenience caused

[wind shell]

Alex - @Ping me! [✨] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) I do understand it can potentially be uncomfortable but if a flashback/panic attack/episode is trigg…

giggling

Christmas/Yule Tide [ gift/doe/bell ] 💿💫 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) 📎

the big scary yuletide

I love being mentioned

trigger warning holidays is really shitty btw 😭😅

cus its yk

trigger warning a religious practice 😭😭😭😭😭

🙂‍↕️

too broad to know what’s behind it

and censoring a religious practice is like hella disrespectful 😭💔

nontheless

was an example, not intended to be actually censoring

ooohhh

mb gang

[rose oxide]

im pretty sure religious practices and holidays can be genuine triggers for people btw /nbr

[wind shell]

sure, but it still shouldn't be censored. it should be worked through. talking in depth about the religion, yes, but the mere word shouldnt be censored.

[maiden plover]

That's good to know for the ICD-11. Is there anything like that in the DSM-5 by chance as well?

[midnight drift]

I'm unfamiliar with the DSM and don't have a copy to hand unfortunately!

The UK prefers to use the ICD-11 with occasional references to DSM-5-TR so I tend to favour the former in my research

[maiden plover]

Yeah. I have some common triggers personally, unfortunately, existing in certain spaces makes it impossible for certain triggers not to be touched on. That's where I often choose to pull myself out of the conversation and avoid reading about it

[midnight drift]

There is also something to be said that neither the ICD nor the DSM are diagnostic tools. They are diagnostic manuals to be referenced after a diagnostic tool has been used to gain information about a case

[maiden plover]

Christmas is not a religious practice for a lot of people. Many people of religions or lack there of religions celebrate christmas now. Yes it did originate from Christianity but that doesn't always mean that the act of celebrating the holiday itself is religious. In my opinion, Christmas has been so capitalised on in the goal to encourage over consumption and stimulate a capitalist economy that it as a public holiday is almost entirely devoid from the celebration of it as a religious celebration.

[maiden plover]

I'll check tonight when I have time cause I'm curious. Australia tends to use both the DSM and ICD so I like to know both. Also the DSm is often referenced in online discourse

even if it's not as relevant as the ICD

[maiden plover]

Yeah, they're pretyt brief and not comprihensive. They kinda remind me of dictionaries. They can be good to refer to when confused on somethings meaning but to understand something like a social concept, they can be simplistic and misrepresent them.

[wind shell]

My point was if a word of a common holiday triggers you it shouldn't be censored. That's something to work with your therapist about. Talk of the holiday and activities? Sure. The word itself? That needs to be worked on in your own time. (Not at you specifically)

MattMatee ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Christmas is not a religious practice for a lot of people. Many people of religions or lack there of…

This.

Jaiden 🦋💛 || No @s ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) If just the words trigger you then I think it’s something you need to work on with your therapist if…

This is what you're supposed to do ^_^

MattMatee ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Yeah. I have some common triggers personally, unfortunately, existing in certain spaces makes it imp…

Mind you, all of this is coming from someone who has trauma with the holiday.

[green lava]

it depends on the part/alter
we use the terms interchangeably. it doesnt really matter to us at all which term we use most of the time. it doesnt change the fact that we as a system are one whole made up of many different parts that are dissociated from eachother in either small ways or big ways. we dont really mind either term

[green lava]

thats exactly what happened to us
once we moved out of our bad household and started to actually feel safe for the first time, we started to notice the system and alters started to come forward. that was in 2022 and since then we’ve discovered plenty more and definitely more to go

[stable sapphire]

Am I losing my mind or is it normal that our alters have like stopped fronting as much after our situation improved. It feels like they're fronting less and less but what is making me confused is that we have worse amnesia at the same time? Like it's getting better but also worse

[maiden plover]

The brain isn't a machine, it changes and adapt uniquely depending on the person and situation. It's possible for symptoms to both get worse and get better depending on the person.

[weak basin]

GG @maiden plover, you just advanced to level 12!

[maiden plover]

Thanks mee6 I guess

[stable sapphire]

Oh

[green lava]

everyones different, so dont think that your experience isn’t “normal” compared to others, cuz there really is no comparison. your system will adapt and do whatever your brain feels is best and safe to do

i know for me a lot of our alters dont front as much anymore as they used to a few years ago, and thats just because our life has changed a lot since then and a lot of those alters aren’t always “needed” anymore. our frequent fronters are mostly all one small subsystem now who all handle daily stuff to an extent and other alters fronting are more rare.

my therapist explained that each alter is formed for a specific role or reason. if that reason isn’t prominent anymore or that role isn’t necessary to the brain, those alters wont front as often anymore or at all for a while. it depends on everyone differently and their specific situation but what your talking about is “normal” for your experience, and maybe some others experiences too

[stable sapphire]

That makes sense yea

[maiden plover]

Also remember that parts are triggered to front, they can't voluntarily front most of the time (though I know through therapy and integration some people develop more control). So it may be that because you've changed environments, there are less things that trigger parts to front.

[midnight drift]

I don't think thats true for many systems actually. I think it's pretty common for at least some parts to have the ability to control switches even if this is a skill that comes later

[wind shell]

Some of us can force switch ins but we can’t force switch outs, I think?

I might be wrong

I can’t do either

[paper crater]

Yeah that’s how it feels for us

[rose oxide]

we have had protectors and gatekeepers who have "control" over front, and some of us used to be able to come in an out of front whenever
-# that was before we started dealing with other issues </3 /nav

[coral flint]

I think our system has “opened up” a bit and it’s really nice
As in, we’ve had the same two people front for ages and had to manually reach out to anyone else, but now people are coming and going and it’s a lot less lonely

[digital abyss]

This is incorrect, you don’t control everytime, but you can front trigger alters if you know the triggers. Otherwise yes, it’s at random.

[maiden plover]

What do you mean by front trigger. Parts can force themselves to the front but its typically because there is an immediate trigger that brings them out or a situation that they specialise in.

I also stated that people can gain more control over time and I also prefaced that it was "most of the time", implying that there are exceptions

[tight flax]

Their @s are off

[maiden plover]

I did not state that no one with parts ever had control over what parts fronted, I stated that most of the time, switches are invultary and are triggered

[maiden plover]

I didn't @ them

[tight flax]

Yes you did

[maiden plover]

No I didn't, I turned the @ off

[tight flax]

Ah ok

[maiden plover]

Unless I forgot to, in which case I am sorry for that

but I'm pretty sure I did

[digital abyss]

xe didnt

[midnight drift]

A lot of people use positive triggers to voluntarily cause switches. Favourite songs are quite a common one

And again many people switch without reason. You are right that there is often a trigger but this is not necessarily negative and triggers can truly be random

Saying switches are only triggered is based on a flawed theory that DID is to make the person most functional. Structural dissociation is an accidental byproduct of a panic response, the disorder is disordered and will not always follow what is most logical or helpful

[digital abyss]

^

[maiden plover]

I never said that triggers were always negative. You assumed that.

[maiden plover]

You do realise that I'm arguing for the same thing you are? Like almost everything people have claimed I've said, I never did and it's just been wildly misinterpreted. You know that we agree on this right? And I never said anything disagreeing with it?

Like I never stated that parts fronted exclusively from triggers nor did I say that they exclusively fronted from negative triggers

Those were all wild assumptions made by other people

So I don't know why you've sat here "educating" me without actually properly reading what I'm saying. You've wasted your time and my time.

Also controling who comes to front through intentional triggers it still triggering a part to front

that would still be in the realm of "a part fronting from a trigger" I don't know why people are acting like its not

[digital abyss]

[plain pumice]

I’m pretty sure within some systems alters can have a job in which they can control or switch in ‘volenterily’ when needed?
(Please correct if wrong Alex /gen)

[midnight drift]

Yes that's a role that can be a stand alone alters' job but a lot of systems have a 'gatekeeper' alter (or a few) that have the ability to voluntarily control switches

[midnight drift]

You did say here that "most of the time" alters can't switch without a trigger

I don't think anyone is saying triggers aren't a big factor, but rather just trying to explain that you're wrong about the frequency

[maiden plover]

You don't think that most of the time parts aren't triggered to front?

Can you please explain what you think that I mean by "can't switch without a trigger" because I think this is where we are missing each other

Because I don't mean that "Most of the time, even if someone tries, they will not be able to switch intentionally"

[midnight drift]

I think most of the time can be an inaccurate phrase, yes. There are many different types of systems who are structured in thousands of different ways and all in varying levels of healing - I think it's inaccurate to make such a sweeping statement

[midnight drift]

I am taking a trigger to mean a stimulus that relates to a specific alter. This can be a negative trigger such as one relating to a traumatic event, or a positive one such as an interest that particular alter has

[maiden plover]

I stated that healing brings more control though. I would stand by the fact that I do believe that a large majority of the time, parts do come to front as a result of a trigger in people who have not seeked therapy/begun to heal.

[midnight drift]

You can continue to disagree but the fact remains it seems multiple people with first hand experience don't agree with you and we're only a small sample size

[maiden plover]

I don't view any experience that people have shared as inherently disagreeing with what I believe if I'm being honest. Also, this is just a small sample size. Which means its likely an inaccurate representation of what everyone with DID experiences. That isn't to say that anyone here is invalid in their experience what so ever, but its not proof of a wide spread experience.

[plain pumice]

Sometimes people just want to be about

Sometimes just popping in for a chat

[maiden plover]

Yes, thats fine. Again, I'm not arguing against this experience. Also, hearing a part in your head is different from fronting. Unless you're referencing co-fronting. But either way I don't inherently disagree that thats something that happens.

It's happened to me many times

[pulsar wren]

Some alters front to do certain tasks and that isn’t necessarily triggering them to front

[maiden plover]

It depends. If there is external stimuli that causes them to front then yes thats still a trigger. For example, noticing your room is dirty causing a physical caretaker to front. Many parts don't necissarily front randomly to do a random task they exist for without external or internal (thoughts) prompting them to though it is possible and not uncommon for parts to front for reasons they are unaware of.

I'm not saying your statement is wrong, just adding to it. If it sounds like anything else.

[pulsar wren]

makes sense

we sometimes just have alters front, do something, and leave without a clear trigger

[wind shell]

We have triggers bit don't know many of them

[pulsar wren]

We know a fair few of them

Not gonna share them obv

[fiery depot]

hi, I’m apart of a newly discovered system, -Apollo

[digital abyss]

hello 👋

[fiery depot]

hellos

[digital abyss]

How are you

[fiery depot]

bleh, I was forced to front bc the others were exhausted

[digital abyss]

fair enough

[fiery depot]

how ya doin?

[wind shell]

Hello how you taking being a system

[fiery depot]

trippy, we don’t seem to experience it like those we’ve heard about or know

[digital abyss]

what does that mean?

[digital abyss]

im alr

[wind shell]

How is it different to others you heard about

Nightlight’s system ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) trippy, we don’t seem to experience it like those we’ve heard about or know

[fiery depot]

Sometimes we dissociate when switching sometimes we don’t, most of the time it’s just me & Rosie fronting, so both of us are already in the fronting room, & we remember all of our friends & personal info but not a lot of memories

[wind shell]

Ah so your sharing some memories i see

Nightlight’s system ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Sometimes we dissociate when switch sometimes we don’t, most of the time it’s just me & Rosie fronti…

[digital abyss]

nah that sounds like a normal OSDD system iirc

i have DID so its not as smooth as that as ive heard

<- blackout amnesia man

[wind shell]

Also from what we know that does sound like a normal OSDD system

Nightlight’s system ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Sometimes we dissociate when switching sometimes we don’t, most of the time it’s just me & Rosie fro…

[fiery depot]

Also we just have horrible memory to begin with-

[wind shell]

Owe gid black out amnesia I could right a book of how bad that is for us and most wold be pages of uhhhhhhhhhhhh for when we are in the black out part

Us to but we know the difference with us

Nightlight’s system ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Also we just have horrible memory to begin with-

[fiery depot]

So we have OSDD?

[digital abyss]

nah dont take it as a diagnosis, talk to a medical professional or therapist

[wind shell]

Well we can't diagnose you silly were not a professional

Nightlight’s system ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) So we have OSDD?

[fiery depot]

Can’t parents don’t want us seeing a therapist

[weak basin]

GG @fiery depot, you just advanced to level 5!

[digital abyss]

yeah same 💔 ill be behind the wheel with no idea where we be goin 😭

[digital abyss]

shrugs, do some research via DSM

[wind shell]

True the DSM is very helpful

[fiery depot]

What’s the DSM?

[wind shell]

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder. Books therapists pshycs exsetra use to help diagnose you. My therapist pulls his out every session just in case if I need it to help me understand with him

Nightlight’s system ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) What’s the DSM?

[fiery depot]

Oh-

Yea that makes sense

Everyone is in the fronting room rn-

[maiden plover]

Don't just do research on the DSM too. Look through research papers. Learn about theories of dissociation. Learn about how the disorder functions and forms. Learn about ego states and parts theories. Learn about other diagnoses that could be misunderstood as a part disorder like schizophrenia and C-PTSD.

It's important if you aren't seeking a psych eval for a diagnosis anytime soon that you deeply understand how symptoms, diagnostics, and formation works, as well as ruling out other possible disorders

[digital abyss]

i meant this as well dw

[maiden plover]

With no malice. Please then you should have said that. Considering it seems nightlight does not know much and needs guidance, so just stating "research the DSM" without also stating other things may give the impression to just look at the DSM. Even if in your head you meant everything else

[digital abyss]

That was my quick witted answer to a "im not diagnosing you". it was a statement and it isnt my job to tell someone in detail what to do. i was simply agreeing with you

[maiden plover]

So sorry I just realised I pinged you, I just resent the message without the ping incase it's a visual issue. I am very sorry I did not intent to ping you. I am on mobile which is not my usual method of communication on disorder. This resulted in me forgetting about the "ping" option. I will be more careful next time

[maiden plover]

Oh. To me it didn't come across as agreement, it came across very straight forwardly is "Yeah I meant this as well, don't worry". "I meant this as well", specifically with the adverbial phrase "as well" creates the impression that you intended for your original message to get the same amount of information across. Additionally the verb phrase "Don't worry" from the abbreviation "DW" plays purpose of reassuring the interlocutor not to be worried, implying that they should not worry about replying to the message as that is what the original message was already meant to imply.

That is why I interpreted it the way I did as I was reading the words without any additional context as to your intent. I tend to read things very literally so I miss underlying messages. This is likely where the message was mixed up.

[digital abyss]

Well yeah i also mean i meant to add, but i didnt, and it isnt my job.

[maiden plover]

I'm not staying it is your job. I am just clarifying where the message was mixed up.

And why I replied advising you to state the information rather than imply it because I interpreted your message differently to how you meant it. That's all. I am not staying you must do anything.

[wind shell]

holy shit its not that deep

[digital abyss]

lord have mercy i cant say nothin here without someone trying to correct me

[digital abyss]

also no worries on the ping

[wind shell]

Well that was a lot to read

[fiery depot]

can I get some input about something that has to do with an alter of mine?

[maiden plover]

I wasn't correcting you. I was explaining my own perspective.

[maiden plover]

I was thoroughly explaining my response. If it's too long for you to read, you don't have to read it. It wasn't I tended for you either way.

[midnight drift]

For sure ask away, we'll see what we can do

[fiery depot]

@midnight drift Her name is Rosie, she’s based off of Hazbin hotel, she doesn’t like human food she’ll nibble on it but she feels really sick eating it, I don’t know what to do, since she’s basically always in the fronting room

[midnight drift]

Hm that's a complex issue. I didn't read to above convo so this might me repeating some info;

• How much inner communication do you have? Do you have an external communication system?
• How much can you currently control switches? Do you have a gatekeeper who helps with that?
• Do you have any known alters with a soother role? This can be physical, emotional, or spiritual

Every system is unique so it's difficult for me to give any advice without a little more context :)

-# ps if you add the ping as an edit to the message I don't receive the notification. Ping me in a separate message if you forget!

[fiery depot]

Uh, not a lot of talking going on usually, sometimes it’s a clear speech sometimes it’s I just know, I don’t really have control over who’s in here or what their doing, I don’t have a gatekeeper, no soother alters

[fiery depot]

Whoops- yea I’ll remember that

[midnight drift]

Hm that can be pretty difficult. How long have you been working on system communication?

[fiery depot]

We just figured out we were a system like two days ago

@midnight drift

[midnight drift]

Huh well that certainly can be pretty overwhelming. If I get a chance I'll see what I can do to pull together some simple advice and resources but unfortunately my life's been pretty much in chaos so I'm not sure that I'll remember. No promises but feel free to ping me in a couple days if I forget and I'll try again!

As for right now I'd suggest simple grounding - it's pretty easy to find videos that can help you ground but I'll give some starting tips:

Focus on your senses. I like to carry around a small side bag approx the size of my phone that has grounding tools in.
Remember to breathe and find stimuli that are sharp but not shocking
Some examples:
Mints
Essential oils
Fidgets of different materials
Comfort items
Written breathing exercises
Earbuds/headphones (music)

[fiery depot]

Hi -🥀

[fiery depot]

I’ll remember this -🥀

[midnight drift]

Doing simple grounding techniques can help to keep whoever is fronting calm and comfortable to avoid sensory overwhelm which can make eating more uncomfortable

Sips of cold water can also help and can be very good for grounding

Ultimately it's best to work with a therapist and/or psych who specialises in complex dissociation as soon as possible to help in communication and easing daily functioning

[fiery depot]

The host’s parents won’t let us talk to a therapist in general I don’t think that’s possible -🥀

[midnight drift]

I'm sorry that's unfortunate.

Say 'anime bean' that sounds familiar. Have we met before on a different account?

[fiery depot]

Maybe? I know we had another account that got banned cause it got hacked -🥀

[midnight drift]

Ah I see

[fiery depot]

We want to friend you, is that okay?

[midnight drift]

No thank you, I prefer not to have people friended unless I know them very well. You're welcome to ping me in this server and if I'm available someone will respond

[fiery depot]

Okay, wanted to ask :3 -🥀

[midnight drift]

I appreciate it, most people don't. I do believe my boundaries were listed in my intro that was posted awhile ago though that is out of date so some information may be wonky - but you're always welcome to check that if you're unsure

Not gonna lie if someone doesn't ask to friend me I will automatically decline and never reconsider lmao

[fiery depot]

We saw the ‘ask to dm’ but that was it, I thought it would be nice to ask -🥀

[pulsar wren]

Me: looking at our front logs

New guy:

Why does this keep happening

[plain pumice]

Is anyone else terrified at the realization that there a system, I don’t see anyone talking about this and I feel alone in how we feel?

[digital abyss]

Yes! Even though I've known for years and am diagnosed, it still hits in waves of "oh my god, I'll never be normal, have good memory, or be trauma free." and reevaluating my entire life

[pulsar wren]

Oh, yea, it’s terrifying

I think most people like to ignore it tho

[paper crater]

Oh yeah 100%. I’ve finally got somewhere with someone believing I experience dissociation (no one believed me previously) and it’s so scary thinking about how they’re gonna be digging around that and I’m so scared that the potentiality I have DID or a CDD could be confirmed. I’d rather I’m told it’s “just” dpdr with amnesic episodes. Even though it’d be like “oh gotta tell everyone I figured wrong” at least I won’t have DID.

[pulsar wren]

Off-topic; I think people need to chill about alter age

[paper crater]

Omg fr

It is metaphorical and up to the system as to if the alter can interact or not, especially if they’re a little

[plain pumice]

I think it depends by what you mean as chill?
There has to be some consideration if the alter is under 18 in an 18+ body. Some spaces are not safe for minors especially if they are under 13 talking on a discord server would be potentially very dangerous if that person isn’t suitable supervised

[fiery depot]

Now I’m tripping, someone we know is telling me I have a daydreaming disorder,

Bc we don’t dissociate all the time when switching

[plain pumice]

Is probably best if you do your own independent research in depth.

[midnight drift]

I agree. Equally alters who identify as over 18 in a minor's body I personally do not think should be treated as older than the body. Treated with respect and not patronised? Yes of course. But should a 14 year old with a 30 year old alter be treated like they're 30? No

[midnight drift]

I'm unsure what you mean dissociate while switching? Switching as a process is a type of dissociation. I'd look into the structural dissociation theory - it's the current accepted theory for dissociation/PTSD/CPTSD/DPDR/UDD/OSDD/PDID/DID

[pulsar wren]

Alter age isn’t literal

Ex. Some systems with have alters who appear 9 or whatever but are mentally the age of the body and shouldn’t be treated like children

[midnight drift]

I'd argue some people experience it as such. I know many people who note a change in demeanor, functioning, memory, maturity, emotional processing, and understanding that relate to how an alter perceives their age. Age regression is a major part of the current approved diagnostic process

[midnight drift]

Oh I think your point comes across a little unclear

For sure some people experience it that way! I think it's a matter of how each individual system functions

[pulsar wren]

I know fellow systems who’ve been called pervs or whatever because their alters who are mentally adults in an adult body do adult things but those alters are introjects of a kid character or something and people think that means the alter is a child

[fiery depot]

I figured,

[pulsar wren]

It is very ‘some systems experience it this way and some don’t’

I just think there’s a big issue in sys spaces of people enforcing how alter age works in their systems on other systems

[paper crater]

Yeah! Which is why I think people shouldn’t automatically assume age = maturity when it comes to alters. It should be judged case by case and left to the system to decide what is safe for them

[fiery depot]

I still don’t know, I know we dissociate when someone who wasn’t in the fronting room comes in & fronts but when it comes to people already in the fronting room & fronting, I have no idea,

[midnight drift]

For sure! Sorry your initial point seemed to read as "you should ignore alter age because it's not real"

Not accusing you of anything just how I personally read it!

[midnight drift]

Like I said, look into structural dissociation theory. That will explain a lot

[pulsar wren]

Oh, no, that wasn’t my point, it’s more so frustration with people treating some of our alters like children who aren’t mentally children or getting pissed at us for not ‘telling our littles they can’t do [blank]’

[midnight drift]

Yeesh I'm sorry that's rough

[fiery depot]

I’ll try to remember that

[pulsar wren]

Lots of our younger alters talk on discord, go to bars, etc because we know they can handle it

And I feel a lot of people should figure that if the alter can handle it then it’s not a matter of their supposed ‘age’

[midnight drift]

Yeah that's your personal opinion. I don't think it's wrong for people to neutrally expect a child alter to have the mental age of a child but I do think people should be more understanding to different experiences

[paper crater]

Yep

[plain pumice]

That’s very true that it’s system specific but assuming that people should ignore presenting age is also very dangerous. I agree people shouldn’t assume limitations but if someone’s behavior is that of a young child then that shouldn’t be overlooked

[pulsar wren]

We’ve been in certain servers where they literally mute you if they figure out a little is fronting no matter what

Like, that’s not your business

[midnight drift]

That's.. a little overwhelming

I do expect that if they have a "no littles" rule that it should be followed because they are entitled to make their own rules but it's a bit much to micro manage like that

[pulsar wren]

It always makes us feel like we’ve done something wrong

Like, this alter’s not bothering anyone, they’re not breaking rules, why are we being muted?

[midnight drift]

In servers with a no littles rule I personally take the route of politely reminding to alter of the rule

"hey bud this server has a rule that requests no littles actively talk in chat (link to rule)"

[pulsar wren]

These types of servers are also notoriously bad at figuring out if an alter is a little

[midnight drift]

How would they know..?

That's.. insulting to alters who are just childish or friendly or prefer to type a certain way

[pulsar wren]

Idk but we sometimes get questioned if I have a little too much brain fog and can’t do grammar anymore

[midnight drift]

I have a system friend who has an alter that isn't very good at spelling and tends to type phonetically despite being in his 20s - would he be muted for that? Seems ablist

[pulsar wren]

Depends on the mods discretion sometimes or random members

I once saw someone go in an ‘ask the mod’ chat and go “@/user is typing a little odd and they have really bad grammar and spelling, I think they’re regressed or a little is fronting?”

[midnight drift]

They mute age regressors?

[pulsar wren]

Yep

[midnight drift]

Wtf

The greater majority of age regressors can still comfortably have a conversation in adult spaces while regressed

[pulsar wren]

Apparently “they’re in a kid mindset so they shouldn’t be on discord”

[midnight drift]

That's.. not necessarily true?

[pulsar wren]

Imo If that’s the server rule then fine but can we not mute people because we don’t think their English is good enough? That’s just a tad racist

[midnight drift]

There's many different ways to experience age regression and that doesn't necessarily mean they're mentally a child

I know people who can safely go to work while regressed and be absolutely fine

Of course that is not everyone

But jeez

[pulsar wren]

I know people who function better regressed

[midnight drift]

Yes some people while regressed should not be on discord but that's an individual thing and not universal?

[pulsar wren]

Like, they actually do their chores and responsibilities when regressed cause somehow that helps, idk

[pulsar wren]

Yea, a lot of things are very individual

Most of this stuff is “this is individual and not up to random strangers online to decide for others”

[midnight drift]

Yeah was that not clear?/g

I had stated earlier that it's an individual thing and some alters have a different mental age vs presenting age

(apologies I'm in a BPD flare so everything feels like an attack, I'm genuinely unsure if I was being unclear)

Oh ok then

[paper crater]

Sorry brain overreacts to stuff

[midnight drift]

Nw

[digital abyss]

THIS. OH MY GOD PLEASE. I'm tired of minor systems with older alters trying to be besties with me. You are all not mentally developed to the age you present, even with maturity.

[digital abyss]

Our co host is 11. And is so tired of being treated like a kid. They do taxes, drive, work, draw ||nudity|| for art class, etc. Alter mentality ≠ age. They present 11. They are mentally our age, with younger attributes and talk. They handle adult concepts. Idk it drives me crazy LOL

[pulsar wren]

Mood

[digital abyss]

Also so sorry for ping

didnt see role

[pulsar wren]

Is fine

[digital abyss]

fire

[midnight drift]

Hey could you avoid capslock when pinging me in a message? It can be a little startling

[digital abyss]

duddee im so glad someones on the same page. DID isnt exact. It isnt clean or organized . Its messy, blendy, and DID is a trauma based disorder. its what your brain does to cope wirh trauma, such extensive trauma that your brain fragments.

[digital abyss]

yea sorry ^^ i got excited that someone finally agreed with me

[midnight drift]

No worries

[digital abyss]

They are young in some aspects, and older in others. It's fluid, it's messy, and it's just what trauma does. Something interesting we like to advocate

live laugh love 41, theyre so nice

[midnight drift]

I have pretty strong opinions on it as someone with a system with a wide age variation.

We have people who identify as up to 30 despite being 19 but we don't expect anyone to treat us as much older than 20-21 (as that feels like a fair age range of maturity)

I would consider 18-22 to be my peers so it feels fair to be expected to be treated as that age group

[digital abyss]

For sure. Even then, you are bodily an adult. It's different when the system is bodily 13 or 14.

[midnight drift]

Of course

[digital abyss]

I still am, dispite age, talking to a child, a middle schooler, as a college student. Maturity moght bw that level, but even then, the brain physically has not developed to adulthood, and it should be recognized. I'm grateful people agree with me on that, as minor interactions with that reason peeve us 😭

[midnight drift]

We had someone who identified as around 20 when we were around 12. Granted we didn't realise we were a system at the time but had we realised it would be inappropriate for us to be treated as if we were 20 - because our brain simply has not developed that far

It's also important to note why they may identify as a different age to the body. In the case of being older it's often protectors/soothers and trauma holders that take the brunt. This can help to inform how you interact with these alters

[digital abyss]

Also the "no littles talking here ever" rule is blatantly ridiculous if the age does not align with the maturity. Child mindset? Absolutely. Child age but adult mind? They shouldn't be excluded

[digital abyss]

Yeah for sure, I don't treat them like children, what I mean is I won't talk about adult concepts that would be illegal their age as a still-bodily-minor. I refuse showing ||nudity|| drawings, etc. if they are under 15 or 16 bodily. I'm careful otherwise and judge maturity level when it comes to those drawings, because it's art.

[midnight drift]

Oh of course I was just sharing my experience

[digital abyss]

yeah ofc! :]

[fiery depot]

Someone we know told us based on what we’ve told them & what they know of us that we don’t have OSDD or D.I.D, but some kind of coping mechanism that copies it, or a daydreaming disorder, yesterday they told ash this, and he had a headache for the whole day & I was forced to front, he was doubting everything -🥀

[digital abyss]

[fiery depot]

Hmm?

[weak basin]

GG @fiery depot, you just advanced to level 6!

[midnight drift]

(pings & reacts off please, about to go to bed)
For one you can't have DID and OSDD. Also which subsection of OSDD? And do you mean maladaptive daydreaming? Because it's highly unlikely anyone diagnosed with DID will also be diagnosed with MDD due to it being redundant as a daydream or derealised state is required of DID and OSDD-1

It seems like you have a lot more research to do

I'm not telling you you're fine and there's nothing wrong or you're a liar, I'm just suggesting you give it more thought

[fiery depot]

No, we dont mean both of them together, we meant d.i.d or osdd-

[midnight drift]

Then why did you use &? You're aware that's the 'and' symbol..?

[fiery depot]

rosie must of missed or forgot that

[midnight drift]

And my previous point about researching structural dissociation theory would explain things such as comorbid disorders

[fiery depot]

We completely forgot about that-

[midnight drift]

Start taking notes

[fiery depot]

Noted, I’ll try to remember that

good night going to bed ourselves

[stable sapphire]

Wait can you explain more about why it would be unlikely that someone diagnosed with DID will also be diagnosed with MDD?

[midnight drift]

I'm pretty tired but I'll do my best to give a brief reason

DID, while not required, often comes with a lot of daydreaming type qualities. There is a heavy focus right now on not over-diagnosing people as this can be detrimental and most diagnosticians will prefer formulation (working on a document that explains all symptoms and why they happen, rather than individual diagnosis)

DID also comes with derealisation as a requirement. It's also very common for people who go through trauma to gravitate towards imaginary worlds to cope with or escape the trauma - which is part of where introjects and some systems who have an inner world come from.

Basically it boils down to not diagnosing unnecessarily. If DID already comes with derealisation, daydreaming, a detachment from reality, and being drawn towards fiction - there's no need to diagnose MDD as a separate disorder.

Of course it is absolutely possible for someone to have both, but there would need to be an extreme emphasis on those symptoms that are not otherwise explained by the DID.

Sorry if that's really jumbled I did my best on very little sleep lol. If it's confusing lmk and I'll fix it later

[midnight drift]

Note: this message has been heavily edited so my original reply now does not make sense

[pulsar wren]

Oh, so, like, since you’re already diagnosed with a condition that causes the symptoms there isn’t a really a reason to pin another cause since they already have one, right?

[midnight drift]

Unless the disorder is severe enough to warrant and individual diagnosis, pretty much yeah!

Diagnosis really only serves to validate the individual (if they need/want that) and to help inform how you treat/manage the symptoms. There's no need to diagnose another thing if it's already going to be treated with the other disorder

[pulsar wren]

Makes sense

A lot of people treat diagnosis like it’s objective but conditions exist to explain symptoms that go together a lot, right? So, they’ve gotta use their best judgement about it

[midnight drift]

Yep. Again why people are more moving towards formulation as it helps inform therapy more easily

[pulsar wren]

I’ve never heard of that, you got time to explain or? It’s okay if you don’t, I should be working on a project rn either way

[fiery depot]

Sorry-

[wind shell]

Our understanding of formulation is where you work with a professional to look at your symptoms, presentation and history to help you to understand why things are happening.

This may not be 100% correct and I am sorry if it isn’t it’s just our understanding of it.
I’m sure Alex can explain fully when he gets the time to

ArsonCrows [💿💫] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) I’ve never heard of that, you got time to explain or? It’s okay if you don’t, I should be working on…

[pulsar wren]

Cool

[midnight drift]

Yeah unfortunately I'm busy so I'll reply when I can but this is pretty accurate for a brief description!

[wind shell]

Thanks boss

Alex - @Ping me! [✨] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Yeah unfortunately I'm busy so I'll reply when I can but this is pretty accurate for a brief descrip…

[midnight drift]

I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible but there's a lot. Here's what I know about the theory of structural dissociation to the best of my knowledge. Remember I'm not a professional and this is just what I know, I may get some things wrong.

Firstly; dissocation is the inability to correctly process stimuli or information. This may be a temporary symptom of being in a certain mental state, or may be more constant.

There are 5 types of dissocation.

• derealisation (feeling as if the world or aspects of the world are not real)
• depersonalisation (feeling as if you or aspects of you are not real)
• dissociative amnesia (temporary or permanent inability to recall events due to trauma)
• identity confusion (inability to recognise or relate to one's self)
• identity alteration (marked changes in parts or all of ones identity not related to external circumstances such as social groups or environment)

There is a scale for dissociation that, unlike things like autism, is mostly linear. This means the scale goes from less severe to more severe in a straight line. This order may be slightly different depending on individual experiences but this is generally about right
.

• No dissociation
• Daily dissociation
  (Zoning out)
• Non disordered daydreaming
  (getting lost in thought so much that you may lose attention to your surroundings)
• Mild disordered dissociation/PTSD/dissociative amnesia
  (Failing to process stimuli as a memory due to extreme stress of an individual or only a couple traumatic events)
• Other trauma disorders such as BPD and CPTSD sit around here
  (the failure to process secondary information to the traumatic event - events being repeated over an extended period of time/longer than a couple weeks)
• Derealisation/depersonalisation disorder.[DP/DR] Not generally a trauma disorder but can be linked to traumatic events or extreme stress.
  (The failure to recognise outside stimuli or ones self as reality)
• Unspecified dissociative disorder; Other specified dissociative disorder, dissociative disorder not otherwise specified [UDD/OSDD/DDNOS]
  (Severe dissociation and inability to process complex information in the typical way as a result of trauma over an extended period of time)
• Partial dissociative identity disorder and Dissociative identity disorder [P-DID, DID]
  (Most severe dissociation involving all 5 types of dissociation, failure to process outside information as well as internal information in the typical way)

.
The thing about this scale is at any point in the scale, you have everything before that point. Someone with DID has all characteristics of the above disorders - not saying you cannot identify those disorders as separate to some degree - but you will at least have traits of all of the above

The theory of structural dissocation explains that dissocation (depending on the type) forms a new structure of processing that keeps parts of one's self separated to some degree. They can be separated into:

• Apparently normal parts (ANP)
  (a part which, at least at the surface, appears non disordered. The word "apparently" is key)
• Emotional parts (EP)
  (Parts that hold some part of the trauma)
  I have an image below that explains primary, secondary, and tertiary dissocation. This is an example of how these parts may exist within an individual. Note the diagram will not be completely accurate for everyone

Brief examples:
-In PTSD, someone as an ANP and an EP that may present differently depending on the trigger. These are still the same person, but the parts of themself function semi separately. The brain has dissociated some parts of the information between the parts.

-In CPTSD someone has at least one ANP (sometimes more) and many EPs as they have experienced many different traumatic experiences. These parts may be more or less distinct in how they function, but can be more easily identified as part of a collective. The brain has dissociated a lot of information between these parts, but not all information.

-In DID someone may have multiple ANPs as well as multiple EPs. These parts function as multiple separate individuals with more distinction between them. They are still a collective within one body, but the brain has dissociated almost all information between these parts.

It is important to remember that everyone has these parts, but what makes it disordered is the dissocation that keeps them separate.

Figured I'd give what information I can as people seem to be struggling to find resources

[midnight drift]

I briefly mentioned it before but it's essentially where you work with a professional to help identify your symptoms and where they came from. Instead of getting a diagnosis at the end it kinda works like one massive document to explain you and your case - helping inform any therapists or other care providers more about your specific case than just a diagnosis can provide

[digital abyss]

this was incredibly well written

like all of it

not jst that paragraph

[midnight drift]

I do my best to provide info where I can

The best way to fight misinformation is sharing correct information

[coral flint]

Can you have dissociative amnesia that’s not at all alter or trauma related? Cause sometimes it just happens for kinda no reason?? Or not an obvious one

[midnight drift]

Umm honestly I'm not 100% certain but I think it's technically possible but would probably come under UDD or DDNOS - generally dissociative amnesia comes from trauma because of how it works.

Unfortunately I used all my smart points in one go but if you ping me maybe tomorrow evening UK time I may be able to explain more!

Due to personal circumstances my system is in absolute chaos so thinking is at a minimum lmao

Energy too tbh

[coral flint]

Fair enough,, hope you feel better soon?

[midnight drift]

Ty! You'll get a response if it's me fronting but if it's someone else might be a couple days

[coral flint]

I’m gonna think of examples for what I’m talking about

[midnight drift]

That would be helpful!

[midnight drift]

Hey I threw together some info that might be helpful just pinging in case it gets lost in chat
@fiery depot

[coral flint]

We’ve had complete blackout amnesia + rearranged memories for smth that I can’t imagine being traumatic really, we only found out because people at school kept asking us if we dated a kid when we were in primary school and I just went “no lol??” Until my mum confirmed
Generally all the years of primary school get mixed together but that makes a bit more sense for reasons
Sometimes our brain will start blocking out all positive memories of our friends, until we feel like we don’t really know them (usually get out of it by forcing through it)
And idk just generally bad memory compared to what it should be

[fiery depot]

Thank you

[midnight drift]

Ah I understand the question now!

Short answer:
If you went through enough trauma to be a system your memory will generally be interrupted - regardless of if the memories themselves are traumatic. Whole periods of your life may be partially or totally obscured

Also as the diagram shows there is primary, secondary, and tertiary levels to dissocation.
Primary: the stimulus itself.
Secondary: the above plus the stimulus surrounding the event.
Tertiary: all of the above plus any other surrounding events or stimulus

Example:
Traumatic event: being attacked
Primary:
The physical sensations of the incident, visuals, sounds, smells, and other direct stimuli
Secondary (repeated trauma):
The events leading up to the incident, more obscure stimuli or events surrounding it
Tertiary (repeated trauma with severe dissocation):
Emotions, non literal sensations, time of year, your own actions, micro triggers, insecurity ect

This may not be totally accurate as my brain is soup but I did my best

[coral flint]

Ahh thanks!

[fiery depot]

Dissociative amnesia, identity confusion, (and maybe depersonalization bc emotions…are alien to us) (scratch the depersonalization thing, wrong thing)

[midnight drift]

That's not what depersonalisation is

[wind shell]

I mean no disrespect but you have come into this chat asking for advice and yet you seem to not take the advice and when the research is quite clearly written out for you it seems you are still not actually reading it.
It is ok to want and need guidance but it is getting quite frustrating as it seems you are ignoring any help you are given.

I understand learning your a system can be difficult but please take some time to read through the given sourses and explanations.

Nightlight’s system ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) Dissociative amnesia, identity confusion, (and maybe depersonalization bc emotions…are alien to us)

[digital abyss]

I think it's worth noting that out of all CPTSD part based disorders, DID/OSDD is the most extreme. It is important to learn about the disorder, and what symptoms, vs trying to figure out parts and alters.

DID/OSDD is a difficult disorder to just work through on your own, even with research. It's such a massive and extreme trauma disorder that you cannot fully help yourself without therapy. Going head first into a bunch of system stuff without actually knowing the disorder itself can cause confusion for if the issue isn't DID/OSDD, and if it is, make it more complicated and anti-recovery, making communication difficult.

I'm speaking on personal experience.

I guess just.. be careful and do the research with a grain of salt that it could be anything else than DID, just may be tackling it from the wrong approach.

This isn't a fake claim, just common thing I see is ppl get it wrong thinking they have DID when they have something else just from misinformation!

[rose oxide]

/off topic
has anyone had their system experiences impact dreams in weird ways?

like for some reason ive had a few dreams (not recently) that felt directly related to us being a system, but what was happening in the dreams didnt really have anything to do with being a system afaik? i cant really remember the dreams, just that it felt like that for some reason. cause i kind of always lucid dream whenever i am experiencing a dream. and i also recently had a few weird dreams in a row that im still processing i guess

[digital abyss]

omg yes fs

[fiery depot]

I’m sorry I appear to be that way,

I’m trying to understand a lot of things rn, & some of it is blurring together.

[midnight drift]

The last I have the energy to say tonight is you need to actually research what each type of dissocation is, symptoms, and the diagnostic process surrounding them

You cannot have DID or OSDD-1 without having 4 or more types of dissocation. As I said DID requires all 5 types of dissocation; OSDD-1 requires 4 but either less distinct identity alteration or amnesia can be omitted

If you do not have these you do not have an identity disorder - but equally it seems you do not know them or your own symptoms enough to make a judgement

Best advice is stop asking your friends opinions and actually do some research. I highly doubt they are even close to qualified to make those decisions and from what I can tell they told you very inaccurate information based on very little evidence

Don't isolate yourself, but in this instance your friends don't seem to be able to help

[fiery depot]

Alrighty thank you,

[stable sapphire]

Oh, gotchu

[midnight drift]

So I use the fact I've been to college for a base level of psychology to help educate people. This genuinely sums up 80% of what I learned and it's hilarious so if you feel like it go ahead and watch XD

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DROkFVUjm-T/?igsh=MThyaG0wcmlvN2QyMw==

online1roomschoolhouse

Hope this helps.

Video description: Elora talks to the camera. The caption says, “I tested out of college psychology at 15. Here’s everything I learned.”

Likes

30118

Instagram

[pulsar wren]

The bit about people who graduated 40 years ago thinking they know everything about psych but never updating their knowledge is a mood

My home country is the type where every doctor is 50 and graduated 20 years ago and they all suck ass

[wind shell]

Wow also yeah I have pshycs here still saying you have multiple personality disorder but younger ones say Disosiated Identity Disorder and I think to myself older medical personalities need a updated course on some things because the pshyc was trying to give me help with stuff that no longer is done and some of it would of been harmful because she said you can ||die|| from this and I was like since when that isn't right

[green lava]

this is really interesting
we used to have maladaptive daydreaming symptoms REALLY strongly when it comes to fictional worlds a few years ago. i think maladaptive daydreaming can be a symptom of other disorders for sure, as it connects with that, rather than its own diagnosis overtop of your already existing diagnosis’s that explain it.

we dont experience near as many maladaptive daydreaming experiences anymore due to being in a healthier place entirely for the past few years, whereas before it was our brain doing so to escape reality, because reality was dangerous and we were in a traumatic situation 24/7

[digital abyss]

its interesting as well coming from a system with aphantasia

[green lava]

yeah

[weak basin]

GG @green lava, you just advanced to level 9!

[green lava]

also alex, all of the info you shared about dissociation was probably one the best ways ive seen it be put together in an easily understandable way imo

i also always see people talk about how they “unlock memories” through therapy, and while that has happened to me, ive never seen anyone talk about the fact that the dissociative amnesia can be permanent. my therapist told me that due to how much of a traumatic state i was in, some memories never even got stored into my brain due to the severe dissociation, and you can’t retrieve what doesnt exist. some things can be remembered with time, but i’ll never get all memory of what happened in my life during those times because it wasn’t stored in the first place

its honestly hard to feel okay about sometimes. i know that remembering everything that happened would probably deeply retraumatize me as the small things i DO remember that are still deeply triggering are retraumatizing when having flashbacks, but its also that thought that “i’ll never fully know everything that happened to me.”

[green lava]

(i say small things as in, some situations or memories, but they are a small fraction of my life compared to everything i wont ever remember)

i’m in a better place now, and with healing our amnesia has gotten much better than it used to be and some of those barriers are slowly starting to break down, but we still blackout, and i dont even realize we blacked out until i think about it and realize i dont remember everything that happened this month and i can only recall some things, and the rest is gone.

we dont have blackouts where we “wake up in a new place/situation” anymore like we used to before realizing we were a system (we realized once we were in a safe environment and started actually healing), but we still forget so much

and literally 80% of the time i have no idea who i am (like rn)

even though we are safe

none of this is a vent btw im just sharing some of my own personal experiences w/ this stuff cuz its nice to talk about it sometimes with others who may understand at least a bit, and who might relate to what im saying and experiencing

[paper crater]

Love only noticing switches because this is what our handwriting looked like, notes were taken an hour apart ish

[rose oxide]

i both love and hate being a covert system. like i would like them to be not so covert to me, but then again i dont like my family and wouldnt want to be very open around them either

[digital abyss]

im cackling so me (demitri 🎱) and sirius (🌙) fronted last night at the arcade and there was one of those boxing machines

sirius is our staple "fight! fight! fight! fight!" type protector and they set a new record on the machine 😭

its lowk interesting bc u can see how posture changes 😭

[rose oxide]

wow

[digital abyss]

we have a few vids like that

did is wack

[rose oxide]

yeah

its really interesting to see

i wonder if weve experienced smth like that

[digital abyss]

mayhaps

[paper crater]

Omg yeah that’s so wack

[digital abyss]

ong

[paper crater]

My guess is the difference in strength is more to do with the mental capacity to think that you have the ability to do smth because it’s not possible to suddenly get really strong hehe

[digital abyss]

no it isnt that

its focus

im more silly than sirius

sirius hit it straight on

[paper crater]

That too yeah

[digital abyss]

no look backs, eyes on the prize

i just did it for sillies

[paper crater]

Yep

[wind shell]

Karl’s—alter—is being so mean about my handwriting :[

They need to be nicer. They should know differences are good

the reason is cause Grian writes in fucking block letters for some reason

Hmmm they think that is the best way hu

true

[coral flint]

Does anyone know what role would apply to an alter who doesn’t care about pretty much anything who’s triggered to front to deal with people who make us uncomfortable

[pulsar wren]

Protector?

[coral flint]

Maybe? It feels like it’s doesn’t apply cause them not caring about anything also can get us into a bit of trouble

One of my friends suggested apathy holder but that doesn’t feel quite right either

I think technically he’s a protector, the word just doesn’t feel right

[wind shell]

seems like a protector to me.Because that's what we are.We would do things that you've described

only differences we care about stuff

[pulsar wren]

Protectors don’t have to care necessarily

It’s just their job is do a thing that keeps the system safe

[coral flint]

Yeah, ok

Thanks!

[mellow mortar]

Guardian, maybe? That's what we use for situations like that.

[coral flint]

Hmm could work

[digital abyss]

we usually say protector

[wind shell]

Is it weird to feel awkward and a bit upset when someone who knows about us says show us you in real life yet when we do they wanted to see our host identity and then we explained in a short way why we showed them us all they said was okay whatever making us feel like we upset or pissed them off

[stable sapphire]

No?

[rose oxide]

i think we're planning on finding a psychologist ourself once we can drive, since our mom wont take us to one for an evaluation.
our friend told us to try and document in some kind of journal all of our symptoms, and look up diagnostic criteria to kind of compare symptoms and base it off of that
anyone else have other tips for what we could do?

[midnight drift]

Hey just letting you know it's highly unlikely you will be diagnosed unless you're almost 18

Not saying you don't have it but professionals can be really finicky

But if you know the wait lists are years long and you'll be 18+ by the time you get to the top you can ignore me

[pulsar wren]

I know folks who got a DID diagnosis pretty young personally

It’s not common but it does happen

[midnight drift]

Does happen but what I knew was that's only usually an emergency but maybe the social climate is different elsewhere?

The UK is weird about it.

Idk how it works in other countries but here you can be medically recognised but not diagnosed unless under very certain circumstances

[pulsar wren]

Oh, yea, none of them are UK

Makes sense

[paper crater]

The UK doesn’t even diagnose kids with anxiety
-someone who had severe anxiety as a teen and still has some degree of it

[rose oxide]

well, right now i have a therapist who ive mentioned it to her before, but she doesnt know a lot about dissociative disorders, but im sure she writes down what she notices. and im 17 rn. i just am journaling symptoms and planning stuff with my therapist for when i have my drivers license and can take myself to a psychologist with my therapists help.

[rose oxide]

thats kind of exactly why im journaling everything right now

cause itll help me out in the long run

im pretty scared to go to a psychologist

but my therapist thinks i should eventually get like a full evaluation done by a good psychologist, which shes gonna help me look for and plan out

[digital abyss]

this eye emoji we got diagnosed this year, 19

[plain pumice]

Asking for advice on derealization and depersonalization.
We’ve been really struggling with this to quite a severe degree, regular grounding doesn’t seem to help us and just wondering if anyone had any advice for dealing with it

[digital abyss]

I don't have any advice but I wish you luck those episodes are the worst :(

[coral flint]

Something that really helps us sometimes is getting out on nature (a short walk or smth) and just paying attention to all the sounds and what you can see

Idk if that’s available to you, sorry if not

[pulsar wren]

I forgot where to get white board markers on my campus and also I forgot that I can just ask people where

I did get them though

And then I found one under my chair so apparently I also forgot that I already had white board markers

[wind shell]

Owe gosh I hate when I forget where things are especially when I find out one or more of my alters moved it a while ago and I didn't know

[plain pumice]

Might be able to our mobility isn’t very good, but thank you for the suggestion Mabye even just sitting outside may help

[rose oxide]

we are almost constantly dissociating to some degree, but when we're having bad dpdr days we like to do things that dont take a lot of energy (cause we're also chronically ill). so we'll watch movies/shows or our fav youtubers, draw, eat our fav foods, research our special interests, etc. certain stimulation can help sometimes too, like music and touching certain textures.

[wind shell]

We do low energy things most the time to due to our conditions and derelization to. One thing we love doing is playing games where we can build. Building is so soothing

[rose oxide]

if you like organizing and colors, theres this game where you organize color gradients into the correct order called "i love hue" and i really like it.

it gives nice visual stimulation

[vocal swan]

ooooo yeah i like this game but sometimes it gets too much like tryna sort stuff in colours and like there are some colours that are inbetween like two colours and it gets really overwhelming trying to like decide which one goes in which

[rose oxide]

yeah

i just work on the obvious ones until i get to the ones that are harder to figure out, cause it usually gets more obvious by then

[green lava]

Winter makes this difficult, but I find that sitting outside for a bit helps me a lot when the sun is out and I can lay in the grass with my favourite music playing that uplifts me!

My best advice is to sit with yourself in a place you feel most comfortable and safe, and try and have a conversation with yourself and ask why you might be feeling this way. Was it triggered by something/someone/a situation? Is there something in your life currently that is really making you feel unsettled? Is it something that you can actively change or do to make yourself feel better, or is it out of your control?

If you figure out the cause of why, it can help you figure out a solution or an understanding even, that can help you going forward. If you don’t know and can’t figure out why, or if it’s something that you can’t really fix or fully control, the best thing is to try and keep doing things that you enjoy, and that make you happy. Journaling helps too at least for me. I dissociate a lot of the time, even when nothing happened to trigger it; it’s a baseline for me unfortunately. I would get so upset about the fact that I feel so dissociated that I would stress myself out more and in turn dissociate more than I was. I had to sit with myself and tell myself that I can’t always control what my brain does everyday due to the nature of this disorder, and that when I can’t change it, I can’t get caught up in that stress as it makes it worse. I just need to keep going forward, doing what I love, and do things that bring me joy even while dissociated. It’s like when people say “do it scared.” “do it depressed.” except its “do it dissociated” as best you can. Obviously these things are much harder in practice than saying it or talking about it, but it starts small, and taking care of yourself best you can through this period. Remind yourself that it will pass eventually, and with healing things will improve, even if it’s just little by little. The important thing is to keep going, keep moving forward, and take care of yourself and listen to your body, and do what you are able to do that might help, even just a little 🫶

[pulsar wren]

I was complaining to one of my professors about sys stuff ( not alters but other stuff ) and they went “You need to see someone.”

And then kept arguing with me until I agreed to make an appointment about it with my gp

I keep forgetting this shit ain’t normal to most people???

[heady hornet]

God, so many times :P

[wind shell]

I forget that all the time and it for some reason feels weird to my brain when people say this

[pulsar wren]

I was complaining about memory issues and I went “I don’t remember multiple hours of my days usually” and they paused and I could tell they were judging me so hard for still not wanting to see someone after all that

[pulsar wren]

Yep!

[fluid sleet]

I wanted to know this but I’m not sure who to ask…. I say this a respectfully as possible. My question is:
what does it feel like to like switch? I’m not sure of the word…

[rose oxide]

it depends on the system, alters, and circumstances, there's multiple types of switching

[pulsar wren]

For us we get mostly full blackouts or very blended ones. Meaning either it’s very abrupt and I don’t remember any of it or very hard to parse and just filled with brain fog

Though I have a question back: why are you wanting to know? ( not mad at all just curious )

[wind shell]

One way we have noticed is headaches dizziness then we need to sit down and our heart starts pounding our eyes blink a bunch we at times cry from being scared then we black out and idk what happens next unless we come back we are very confused but we have trouble remembering stuff. This is just what we noticed recently that we did due before the black out and initial switch. What's got ya wanting to know this

✪.miil0..bird.✪🪶🌀 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) I wanted to know this but I’m not sure who to ask…. I say this a respectfully as possible. My questi…

Ranges from zoning out to blackout for us.

✪.miil0..bird.✪🪶🌀 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1151243634876891246 message) I wanted to know this but I’m not sure who to ask…. I say this a respectfully as possible. My questi…

[fluid sleet]

I wanted to know because I wanted to understand what it feels like to have this disorder. As a hyperfixation I tend to do this. I’m very interested in learning about brain disorders.

[wind shell]

Understood..ish.

It feels like hell. Of all of the disabilities we have, this one is the worst for us. It's not fun. That's about it for us.

[pulsar wren]

DID is our second worse

( Our circulatory conditions all tie for first since those could kill us at the drop of hat )

[wind shell]

Understood for sure.

[coral flint]

Sometimes it’s ok, sometimes I think it’s beneficial compared to if we weren’t a system, and sometimes god I really wish I wasn’t like this

[wind shell]

The difference for us to describe this disability compared to our seizures for example, is my seizures don't define me.

This does.

And to be fair, I am a heavy trauma holder, so I most likely have a different view.

[pulsar wren]

DID is basically the thing that comes up the most often for us in day to day struggles. We can’t remember much of anything, we get headaches and brainfog and flashbacks and nightmares and dissociate and at the end of the day 90% of the things we struggle with day to day loop back to DID

[coral flint]

Yeah I think it’s different for us because our amnesia doesn’t affect us to that bad of a degree, like it’s bad but day to day it’s manageable, and we don’t switch apart from like 2-3 main fronters too much

[pulsar wren]

We have extremely heavy anaemia

[wind shell]

We have blackout amnesia most commonly, aphantasia, and history of ||OEA||.

Ours has no up sides to it other than keeping us alive.

[pulsar wren]

Mood for all of that except the aphantasia. We also have few upsides

[wind shell]

Shakes hands.

We got lots of amnesia. We also at times hsve 2 to 5 and in-between numbers fronting and the protectors hold the most truama especially Astrid and Sweden and Denmark though Astrid and Sweden are the quiet type so don't say much but we can tell it hurts them as it obviously would with the memories. Worst are the flashback attacks combined with rapid switches. Those happen the most alone and that is one of the scariest parts. Some times we forget our own names which isn't good in the slightest

[pulsar wren]

I forget so so much

[wind shell]

I hate the forgetting due to what if I slip up around family who has no idea about my DID or what DID is

[tight flax]

Our switching when it happens we may feel slightly dizzy or 'off' sometimes it feels like im in/coming out of an absent seizure almost and have recently goung through a period of not having much communication with anyone, but I have noticed recently that I have quite a few chunks of missing memories from the past few months so maybe there is alot more amnesia when it didnt used to be like that, I can definitely say its different for everyone and like every disability it is a scale of severity, I would personally say im on the lesser side as it doesn't effect me too much day to day though still can and will sometimes

[stable sapphire]

We honestly struggle with denial mostly because of our lack of a lot of amnesia. Like we get confusion and alters will like switch and dont know where we are but at the same time its not like we/the alter switching loses the memory. But other than that we deal with everything else especially dissociation and flashbacks. And then again even without a lot of amnesia we're still struggling to remember stuff from school which affects our grades so I know its there but it doesnt feel like it since we can still function if that makes sense

[rose oxide]

our switches tend to be very unnoticeable, even to us until we're like "oh wait i dont feel like that person anymore" but we're thinking it might just be because the most common fronters are possibly from a subsystem

but im pretty sure we have more amnesia and switching than i know of. and i usually get imposter syndrome and episodes of denial cause i dont typically notice switches or im fronting a lot of the time

[coral flint]

Asking to check if anyone else has experienced this, but we have an alter who doesn’t talk/type/any of that (he’s an animal) and really really affects people through passive influence? Like just it being there makes others angry and combative
Idk what would happen if it fronted we’re specifically trying not to let him

Like does anyone have an alter that has a lot more passive influence than others

I realise that got a bit hard to understand

[rose oxide]

we do, usually our introjects, gatekeepers, protectors, persecutors or caregivers are like that.

[midnight drift]

We have an alter who cannot speak but he can type so not entirely your situation? Though I relate because it can be difficult when he's about. He's very prone to being angry and will growl or otherwise vocalise in a threatening but animalistic way

He can only speak if someone willingly stays close enough to him to allow him to use their voice, which is apparently very unsettling to watch. It can be tricky when something happens and his vocalisation breaks through - particularly snarling in response to pain

[pulsar wren]

Us with Shepherd, literally

He’s just a fucking dog

He’s a herding dog too and he effects a lot of us through passive influence and I literally have no idea what to do with it

[rose oxide]

we have a lot of nonhuman alters, but when they are near front or in front we just let them make the noises they want, it doesnt really matter to me tbh

[hybrid skiff]

For us we dont get blackouts, its a very foggy fade in for us. Very blended foggy. Only a couple times its been blackout. But extremely rarely. We have good communication so thats probably why its a smoother transition

[hybrid skiff]

Yeah headache, major zoning out and dizziness with us yoo

Too

[fluid sleet]

Oh ok 👌 thanks for telling me.

[coral flint]

Throwback to when I made a custom status in sp for when I’m dissociated and almost immediately realised it had no point

[green lava]

i have a blurry/dissociated sp status and its on basically 24/7 💀

because we dissociated that much (yay /sarc)

[coral flint]

Yeah exactly 😭 like I have periods of time where it’s worse but like my basis for worse changes anyway

[digital abyss]

found pit about two side systems !! haha !!1!1! hahahw q!1!!1 AAAAA hwhqba !1!1!1