Persona 3 Reload | Master Quest

[dreamy orchid]

mitsuru got shafted so bad

[iron pilot]

Freeze strats is very cool if it's applicable

So her having some sort of ailment pierce would be raw af

[dreamy orchid]

no damage boosting characteristic, lowest power single-target theurgia, most reliant on equips for her damage yet has no access to shift amp boots

[iron pilot]

It'd synergize with phys users thanks to her theurgia

[dreamy orchid]

but yeah ailment pierce would be fire if a bit op

[iron pilot]

I think it's fine, you need to ice break normally

And her theurgia charge rate is low

So you can't spam freeze all that well until endgame

[dreamy orchid]

well she has more than just freeze

i don't rly like how her actual ailment skills become redundant

[ashen pulsar]

mepw

[iron pilot]

It depends, I would personally give her AoE distress

Since neuro slash does aoe confuse already

Distress is like, second best ailment rn

it does the job of reducing damage better than Tarunda

[iron pilot]

I love vehemently lying on the internet

[dreamy orchid]

this dude is a fraud

world's biggest akihiko glazer

[hollow trail]

@dreamy orchid aight how bout now then

[iron pilot]

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "9999 fixed damage to all foes"

[hollow trail]

yes

it would

aqiu is high on da crac

demonic decree is "50 power"

LMAO

[iron pilot]

It's technically true!

[dreamy orchid]

baller

megido being inbetween medium and heavy magic is nice

unmodded its only a tiny bit better than kouga

[hollow trail]

baller? w

i'm still worried though, i really dont want almighty to become a defacto mechanic negater

even phys is, technically, engaging with the system

thats why im making it expensive

multiplier-less it's defacto superior, but also a huge resource drainer

[dreamy orchid]

well i think its fine if almighty is inherently suboptimal

also keep in mind, only protag has access to almighty

at most they are niche

i think the massive sp costs are enough to ward off the people who'd typically spam phys anyways, since sustainability and ease of use is a big part of it

no access to 1-more of any kind also makes almighty really bad for turn economy

[hollow trail]

for a boss tho?

might be baller

[iron pilot]

Probably not

It depends on how much these changes manages to change how long boss fights last I think

[hollow trail]

well keep in mind physical power is nerfed and crit rates are much lower

with a full crit build the chance might be good

but until then?

[iron pilot]

Yeah I'm saying that it will depend on how much your SP bank can keep up

[hollow trail]

magic mastery and almighty amp being mutation only is SO FUNNY bro

if anything phys boosts should

[iron pilot]

Phys amp, I'd say

And slash boost at 50s

[hollow trail]

New version

• Almighty skills re-buffed across the board, are now the strongest damage type when multipliers and boosters are not taken into account, but with a much higher cost. Phys and Magic with boosts and multipliers will still greatly obsolete Almighty due to how boosts are designed

[hollow trail]

while i'm at it i could nerf oracle, actually

[iron pilot]

This playthrough, I noticed I got 50 fragments in just arqa

[hollow trail]

fragments are piss easy to get

[iron pilot]

So that might be aight, actually

[iron pilot]

Well yeah, I maximized s.links this time

What I'm saying is

Nerfing Oracle is tood

Good

[hollow trail]

50% SP recover is so fucking stupid like actually its so fucking bad

[iron pilot]

There's a method even if you do

[hollow trail]

it should be like 2%

if even

[hollow trail]

and it becomes 80% after this bitch awakens OH MY GOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

clock? what's that? i'm fuukamaxxing

[iron pilot]

2%? Idk man

I'd say like, 10%

[hollow trail]

nah cuz like

the reason i 1-dayed arqa was because i fucked around until oracle procced SP then i continued climbing

if she buffed or did something else

savescum

oracle sp recovery should not exist when the anti-grind mechanic hinges on sp management

if it was managed by tiredness it would be ok

and it'd be worse in MQ because phys is no longer as good

[iron pilot]

I don't think it needs to be that bad for it to be discouraged from using

Charging theurgia on her is pretty tiring after just the third

And you theoretically need that much to keep going

Ok how about 5% before it upgrades

[hollow trail]

i was thinking 4% and 8% on revelation

but even then

[iron pilot]

Hmmmm

How about gutting her charge rate

[hollow trail]

eh charge is ok

lmfao what if she raised crit rates on low sp

[iron pilot]

Personally I think the fact that Oracle is relatively consistent for the job's a problem too

[hollow trail]

i think its not pure rng

[iron pilot]

Yeah it isn't

[hollow trail]

omg imagine if oracle had karns

[iron pilot]

It used to

[hollow trail]

oh right

to whoever said its hardcoded

you can change the "Recovered HP" "Defense raised" etc etc messages

its a bmd lol

[iron pilot]

Port back the P3P descs

[dreamy orchid]

oracle casually recovering 3sp

[iron pilot]

To be faithful™

[dreamy orchid]

i was testing it out in harabah with 10% recovery and at most you'd get an extra buff out of it

i think it works though cus making your oracle grief you with low sp recovery is good enough incentive to leave

[hollow trail]

its not grief

its enough to finish that battle

50% is enough to finish the entire block

[dreamy orchid]

well it feels like grief when you're getting 30 sp in a boss fight

[hollow trail]

its fucking stupid

[dreamy orchid]

but yeah i agree the normal one is stupid

[hollow trail]

and if not the entire block, it's enough to hold you over until the next refill

which is an infinite loop

[dreamy orchid]

i edited it to be like 5% for oracle and 10% for revelation

[hollow trail]

fuuka literally negates the sp economy

but 4% and 8% is ok

[iron pilot]

I think we can go for more items usage because of this

Which is good

[hollow trail]

this is literally what i want

lol

[dreamy orchid]

i just made it even numbers cus they look nicer

or not even

[hollow trail]

Thebel was my favorite part of the game because every single item mattered

the hp and sp ones

the gems

after fuuka it all became useless

[dreamy orchid]

starting to hate fuuka

[iron pilot]

I kept the gems for Priestess

It was funny

[dreamy orchid]

i don't really remember using items in thebel

i think i probably used a couple soul drops

[hollow trail]

kinda wish you could buy gems like in p4g

[iron pilot]

Or craft

[hollow trail]

it was broken but the good kind of broken

lmaoo

[dreamy orchid]

item only run

[iron pilot]

I took a while to finish the first block

For this run

I had to grind 100K worth of items

[hollow trail]

i defaulted to items, i spammed medicine/cure water etc for HP to restock junpei

so yukari wouldnt lose sp

which i used for garuing

it was just efficient

i spent a huge chunk of my first 2 blocks in the consumables menu

but i liked it

it was good resource game

fuuka erased that

[iron pilot]

Optimized is using takoyaki

[hollow trail]

can takoyaki be used out of battle

i remembered doing math for all shops in the game for the best and cheapest hp recover item

[iron pilot]

I don't recall, actually

[hollow trail]

takoyaki seemed mid

[iron pilot]

400 yen that early in the game it's good

You're given like, 8K

That's 20 of them

But you realistically only need half of that

[hollow trail]

ultimate troll

Oracle: 50% SP recover -> 4%

Revelation: 80% -> 8%

[iron pilot]

Well I can try this out on a full moon boss (lovers and hiero)

Let's do it

[hollow trail]

[iron pilot]

Means I have to fight it thrice but fuck it

[hollow trail]

oh yeah are you backing up saves as you play or something

[iron pilot]

Nope

[hollow trail]

xd!

[iron pilot]

I'm pulling a Nanjoguin, actually

I should have though

[hollow trail]

RIP ability to test the full moons

[iron pilot]

Shit you right

Well I can start now if you desire

First two full moon ain't so bad

[hollow trail]

i mean i have my saves if you want them but it would've been good to test with your builds as well

[iron pilot]

Ok I'll try it starting now

What's the game's steamID

[iron pilot]

technically I can just mod menu money in and I'll fuse things in how I want to

[hollow trail]

you don't need that, it's in %appdata%/Sega/P3R

the folder with your steamID is where the saves are

[iron pilot]

oh I'm dumb

how do I take a specific savefile

I'm using slot 9 rn lmfao

[hollow trail]

uh

you literally take save_0009

lol

its a file

[iron pilot]

oh I thought it'd be labeled something funny

[hollow trail]

SaveData009.sav

[iron pilot]

can I rename it into save_0008 or somethin' to change its slot or does that not work

[hollow trail]

uhhhhhhhhh it actually might lol

i dont think slot data is in the save itself

[iron pilot]

ok I'll try renaming it and send it to you in a bit

[ashen pulsar]

proud of u

[hollow trail]

[ashen pulsar]

was oracle really only 80?

[hollow trail]

yes

80%

[ashen pulsar]

Thought it was 100 lmfao

may as well be

[hollow trail]

well cuz it procs at 20%-ish

so yeah

it basically is

[ashen pulsar]

I think crit rate would be a fun alternative to sp recovery

[hollow trail]

i thought about that

but i don't trust the oracle code enough to actually change the effect itself

so for now

very nerfed sp recover

[ashen pulsar]

Although it would be kinda shit for t2

(still a good thing!)

[iron pilot]

iirc the rewind saves are in the save files themselves

so is it gonna be fine if I post my save after the full moon

[hollow trail]

yup

should be

[neat reef]

||Maybe Junpei likes strong girls||

[hollow trail]

xd

[hollow trail]

[ashen pulsar]

[neat reef]

That's a moment

No magic mastery is a good trade tho

[hollow trail]

dynes will be good for the first time in 20 years

[ashen pulsar]

secretly gives all bosses phys resistance instead like a boss

[hollow trail]

phys is already weaker than magic by default

[ashen pulsar]

it was a le epic p4 reference!!

[neat reef]

Hooray

[idle crown]

Definitely excited for this, I’m sure that most people will agree that P3R and P5R are both really easy games even on Merciless so a mod that makes the difficulty go up even more would be great

[hollow trail]

pog

this is hierolovers?

[hollow trail]

this needs testing so urgently lmfao

i think i made junpei a fraud

shinji still busted af tho

[dreamy orchid]

Is he a fraud because of skill progression?

[hollow trail]

vacuum slash in 4th block i mean

yeah kinda

47 damage critting out

[dreamy orchid]

well he isn't made for aoe early game

[hollow trail]

assault dive was also shit

[dreamy orchid]

he didn't even have an aoe until level 50 in p3 so i think vacuum slash falling off is fine

He should be fine in a bit though considering he gets Blade of Fury at level 40

[hollow trail]

anyway i tried playing a bit with phys boys only

aki, junpei, shinji

i managed

and like keyword managed

cuz their damage was ass

and i got like 4 crits for the entire session

[dreamy orchid]

junpei with crit amp still ass?

damn crit rates that low?

[hollow trail]

shinji was critting more actually

even aki critted more

junpei was unlucky

[dreamy orchid]

unironically fraudihiko probably the best one there cus he can get apt pupil gloves

[hollow trail]

i want to keep testing this

some fights ended in 1 turn still

but usually it was due to lucky crit

or theurgia with charge

those are unavoidable

[dreamy orchid]

oh meovv keep in mind

you should buy phys boost accessories for the three of em

[hollow trail]

ik

i was testing with average player build

[dreamy orchid]

average player build (no boosts)

overwrites getsu-ei for tempest slash build

[hollow trail]

getsu is ass here i think

[dreamy orchid]

but yeah if they're really struggling then they may need buffed a bit

[hollow trail]

i was at no point struggling

[dreamy orchid]

its ass on koro but still pog when you get it in your mod

[hollow trail]

well

[dreamy orchid]

low crit rate hurts it tho

[hollow trail]

not struggling per se but like

unless i pulled theurgy out of my ass

the fights were actually requiring some level of brain

[dreamy orchid]

did you nerf theurgia?

[hollow trail]

i didnt touch it

[dreamy orchid]

ah

phys boys will outdamage by a lot when they get that then, but before that they are probably less consistent

too bad fraudihiko doesn't get a phys theurgia

[hollow trail]

electric onslaught is kinda pog tho

what i might do is nerf the phys theurgy critrates

[ashen pulsar]

first time those words have ever been said

[hollow trail]

might even make it 0

[ashen pulsar]

[hollow trail]

sorry, i don't consider 3000 damage to be bad

i have consistently outdamaged with aki theurgy

[dreamy orchid]

nah if you make them 0% crit they're kinda terrible

[ashen pulsar]

removing half of what makes phys unique

[dreamy orchid]

should probably be lower base than the magic ones but stronger when they do crit

[hollow trail]

im not touching theurgy bases

that formula's wacky as fuck

[dreamy orchid]

i mean why not? they're already like 6 times stronger than normal attacks

[hollow trail]

because unlike regular skills i don't understand how theurgy is calculated, so i cannot blindly balance it

[dreamy orchid]

you don't even need to lower it by much, just make it so junpei doesn't outdamage both pre and post crit

[ashen pulsar]

do you want to know

[hollow trail]

ik it scales with st/ma

thats it

[ashen pulsar]

it also scales on user's level

[hollow trail]

source

[hollow trail]

i mean okay ig

in that sense hack n blast and scarlet havoc are literally identical skills

[ashen pulsar]

yup

[hollow trail]

and bleeding fury is better

that is hilarious

aigis getting shafted with 5% less crit for no reason other than a pierce hateboner residual from p5 having gun boosts

[dreamy orchid]

its almost as if they designed this game without phys boosters in mind then shoehorned them in last second for no reason at all

[hollow trail]

blaze of life is twice the power of hack n blast

how tf does that work

[celest kindle]

Maybe magic is peak after all

[ashen pulsar]

since it scales on both st and ma junpei is still the best magic user

[dreamy orchid]

i think they really overcalculated it because they probably assumed junpei wouldn't have access to fire boosters despite the fact he can get both

[ashen pulsar]

funniest shit ever

[hollow trail]

ok but like

doesnt everyone do hack n blast

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

[dreamy orchid]

yes because its better

[hollow trail]

despite being half the power?

how tf does that work

[ashen pulsar]

crit

[hollow trail]

is the mult that significant when the power is literally x2

[dreamy orchid]

remember crit is already 1.5-2x multiplier and junpei's characteristic multiplies his crit damage by an additional 1.4x

[ashen pulsar]

crits are x2.01 damage on merciless

power being x2 is ~1.4x increase

crit has a higher ceiling

[hollow trail]

difficultyparam is a DT right

[dreamy orchid]

yea

[hollow trail]

im making crit 1.0x

[ashen pulsar]

junpei also has crit amp

[hollow trail]

/j

[ashen pulsar]

which makes his crits do 1.4x as much damage

[hollow trail]

if it wasnt obvious

[dreamy orchid]

make crits deal 1.8x damage as an epic p3 fes reference

oh yeah junpei also has innately higher crit rate than every other character

just for existing, his Brave Blade has 30% crit, turns into 45% with revolution

[hollow trail]

(it's 10% in mq)

[dreamy orchid]

then he has 35% instead of 45%

lucky for him, all of his crit boosts are additive rather than multiplicative

[hollow trail]

the only phys skill higher than 10% is heaven's blade with 20%

and the dlc ones that i havent touched yet

[dreamy orchid]

did you make all three severe level phys skills identical

[hollow trail]

yes!

i dont like favoritism

[dreamy orchid]

should've shafted primal force as an epic reference

[hollow trail]

should make it 1200 power actually

[dreamy orchid]

or give god's hand lower crit but higher damage for buff amp guy gambling

[ashen pulsar]

2200

[dreamy orchid]

2200*

[hollow trail]

3300

[dreamy orchid]

and make maralagidyne 650

[ashen pulsar]

or 450

depending on what day of the week

[hollow trail]

bro i forgot about maralagidyne

[dreamy orchid]

i love when they update the numbers but they're still wrong

[ashen pulsar]

that shit is so funny

[hollow trail]

i'm keeping it at 220

actually

same price as maragidyne and has charm built in

[dreamy orchid]

why not just make it cost more

32sp as an epic reference

[hollow trail]

ig

[ashen pulsar]

make it 100% charm because who can deny

[dreamy orchid]

thanatos sexiest dance

[ashen pulsar]

oops

[hollow trail]

what was on difficultyparam again

[ashen pulsar]

lots of things but you brought it up because of crit

[hollow trail]

lololol

[dreamy orchid]

bestieyoneko

[ashen pulsar]

i don't see what's funny about that.

[hollow trail]

is it separated player/enemy side

[ashen pulsar]

yup

[hollow trail]

good

enemy crit 2.01x
player crit 1.0x

[ashen pulsar]

[hollow trail]

actually

if i set it to 1.0x

would junpei's boost be nullified

[ashen pulsar]

his thing is elsewhere

[dreamy orchid]

you can just edit junpei's boost in btlcalc

[ashen pulsar]

yea

[hollow trail]

yeah but that's a blueprint

[dreamy orchid]

nah you can edit the boost with 010

[ashen pulsar]

you don't need to do the blueprint stuff

there's a couple variables you can edit freely

[dreamy orchid]

shit like buff amp, high counter, etc. are there

[ashen pulsar]

boost damage not hardcoded for once

[hollow trail]

time to make buff amp double

no

TRIPLE

[dreamy orchid]

make boosts increase damage by 10% and 20% respectively

[hollow trail]

he will EVADE EVERYTHING

[ashen pulsar]

don't forget to remove evasion cap

[dreamy orchid]

Buff Driver bypasses evade cap with evade ice stacking

[hollow trail]

i'm not touching boost/amps

[dreamy orchid]

it would be funny tho

[hollow trail]

damage is already very tightly balanced for my bosses and i'd have to redo them all over again

huge waste of time

im not gonna make the game a spongefest

[dreamy orchid]

p4g reference

make buff amp 0.5x instead

Akihiko's stats get LOWERED when he is buffed

[ashen pulsar]

oh yeah bestie i think i messed up the math before

[hollow trail]

btlcalc has a 010 template?

[ashen pulsar]

yep

[dreamy orchid]

yea

[hollow trail]

where, its not on main repo

[ashen pulsar]

lightoru's

[hollow trail]

that is the main repo

what

[hollow trail]

did mf not pull request

oh my godddddddddddd

[ashen pulsar]

kill him

[hollow trail]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-fox-snow-winter-bite-gif-16111949

[ashen pulsar]

omg

[hollow trail]

i have those

light just didnt push that particular bt

ig

[dreamy orchid]

oh lmao

he wasn't feeling it

[dreamy orchid]

on what specifically?

[hollow trail]

so much missing

like

actually

[dreamy orchid]

for descriptions?

[ashen pulsar]

theurgia

[dreamy orchid]

ah

[ashen pulsar]

it's more like 1.85x-4.4x

[dreamy orchid]

well in progression it'd feel more like 4-6x considering they all have like 200+ base

[ashen pulsar]

true.

but like

still worth mentioning

[dreamy orchid]

okay

i might need to buff them a bit then cus i didn't test uber early game, only endgame and harabah

[ashen pulsar]

annoying ass scale tho

[dreamy orchid]

yea its so dumb

[hollow trail]

HOLY SHIT

dude push your changes

[ashen pulsar]

he's too busy growing up

👶

[hollow trail]

bro got b a n n e d

[ashen pulsar]

funniest shit ever

[dreamy orchid]

what happened lol

[ashen pulsar]

he said the forbidden words

[hollow trail]

he said he was very, very young as a joke and discord terminated him

probably someone reported

[dreamy orchid]

thats crazy

[hollow trail]

bro this isnt even on light's repo

?????????

[dreamy orchid]

it was in the old download

but not the newer one

lmao

[hollow trail]

wtf

[dreamy orchid]

i remember i had to get yuki to send me the old one cus the new ones broke for me

but then i had to use the new one anyways since the old one was missing some shit

also wait @ashen pulsar

since theurgia calc is different than what we thought

could you recalc the bp's for descriptions pls?

i can't do math so i ask you

[ashen pulsar]

purrhaps

huh

sukukaja boy L yet again

[hollow trail]

this does not look right

lol

[dreamy orchid]

it is

keep in mind its modifying the base value

[hollow trail]

uh yeah no i dont think it is lol

there's bytes being skipped

[dreamy orchid]

1.5 x 1.34 = 2.01

oh damn

[hollow trail]

ah

right

[ashen pulsar]

built different

[hollow trail]

yeah ig thats accurate then

doesn't this literally make merciless easier

though

[ashen pulsar]

no

[dreamy orchid]

no cus player damage is reduced

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

[dreamy orchid]

you do 0.6x on merciless but 0.8x on hard

[ashen pulsar]

smh i made that joke before and you bullied me for it

[hollow trail]

ok but royal does the exact same thing

[dreamy orchid]

a crit or weak on merciless is essentially the same as a crit/weak on hard, but normal damage is a lot lower

yeah but royal's multiplier is like 3x stronger

here its like 1.34x

the difference isn't nearly as bad

[ashen pulsar]

you do marginally more damage

[hollow trail]

that's still by definition stronger though

if crits and weaknesses are easy as fuck to come by that marginal damage adds up

i would argue it's best to set it to 1

[ashen pulsar]

probably but it's like

0.5% more damage

i think they just rounded up to 1.34 instead of 1.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333

although idk why weakness is 1.36

weakness > crit ?

[hollow trail]

i'll probably keep enemy mults the same but reduce player mults to 1

it's marginal but it adds up

idk

[ashen pulsar]

i get you

[hollow trail]

feels cheaty to have more damage from an exploitative mechanic

on the hardest difficulty

not even safety does this

like

why even have the param

[ashen pulsar]

so modders can edit it

wholesome

[dreamy orchid]

reducing crit damage gonna make phys fuckers even weaker

[ashen pulsar]

oh right meow meow

[hollow trail]

TRUE NIGHTMARE MERCILESS EXPERIENCE

jk its this

[dreamy orchid]

its not true merciless unless enemies deal 3.6x damage and player deals 0.2x

[ashen pulsar]

"from" and "to" enemy are backward everywhere

it's very funny

[hollow trail]

yeah but this is correct right, since toplayer is 0.6 i assume the other toplayers are also the correct ones

[dreamy orchid]

enemies having built in ailment boost is hilarious

[ashen pulsar]

yeah you did it right

[dreamy orchid]

while player ailment is nerfed, common midsuru L?

[ashen pulsar]

it's just funny that internally it's listed backwards

[hollow trail]

lol they did the same thing as sh2

xp is higher on easy but normal and above all have same xp

[ashen pulsar]

(good)

[dreamy orchid]

meanwhile in p5r, merciless has as much xp as easy

[hollow trail]

they should've added a param for shadow speed

[ashen pulsar]

TRUE

[hollow trail]

they see you

insta teleport

cracked

[dreamy orchid]

you'd still not get hit half the time

[ashen pulsar]

make them ask to leave every single turn

[hollow trail]

whoa this btlcalc is nice

i have no idea what half of these do

[ashen pulsar]

a lot of it is just weird wording

these are all the theurgia passives

[hollow trail]

poison params

POISON PARAMS

byebye yukari bow

[ashen pulsar]

make it negative and add back in diamai skills

[dreamy orchid]

hypercounter

[ashen pulsar]

50%

[hollow trail]

Damagemax

999

you can get oneshot

enemies cant

[ashen pulsar]

[hollow trail]

p3n doesnt have crit cap

wow

[ashen pulsar]

but there is a boost cap, common magic L

[hollow trail]

where

[dreamy orchid]

its in btlcalc

[ashen pulsar]

you can get up to 5x mult

[hollow trail]

that's related to boosts?

[dreamy orchid]

phys can outdamage magic before crit without even reaching the cap

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

[dreamy orchid]

yea its boosts

you can only get to 5x with driver skills though

[ashen pulsar]

boosts and other damage increasing passives

[hollow trail]

this has like 0 documentation F

supportturnmax

isnt this

buff turn timer

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

[hollow trail]

why is it not 6 then

[ashen pulsar]

wdym

[hollow trail]

if the max is 3 then buffs wouldnt stack duration

[ashen pulsar]

yeah

funny

[hollow trail]

MIDSURU REVENGE!!!!

[ashen pulsar]

wait no

[hollow trail]

1.9x is technically good in P3N because Oracle doesn't consume a turn!

[ashen pulsar]

well i mean

theurgia as well

[hollow trail]

wait

like actually yes

i was joking but 1.9x might be good

but wait is there any scenario where using a 1.9x charge would be good in p3n (if it cost a turn)

i'll make it 2.1x if otherwise

[ashen pulsar]

buff timing

[hollow trail]

elaborate?

[ashen pulsar]

stalling a turn if you don't have debuffs/buffs active

also bloody charge exists

[hollow trail]

wouldn't attacking twice still be better anyway regardless lol?

[ashen pulsar]

nope

[hollow trail]

im tired i havent slept in 30 hours (going soon) explain the math for me

[ashen pulsar]

1 + 1.4 = 2.4
vs
0 + 1.4*1.9 = 2.66

omg you need to sleep smh

[ashen pulsar]

and obviously this is amplified if you both rakunda and tarukaja during the same turn

[hollow trail]

midsuru + aigis combo real?

well

wait

you'd never run into a stall in p3n since durations stack

only if you were careless no?

[ashen pulsar]

turn 1's would apply

[hollow trail]

but autos?

[ashen pulsar]

since you won't automatically have debuff active

[hollow trail]

oh debuff

ofc

between 1.9x and 2.0x i'd rather have the 2.0x because misusing it would at worst lead to wasted sp but the same damage and at best serve the same purpose

[ashen pulsar]

only one small problem with this is that apparently theurgias treat charges as 2x not 2.3x and this isn't easily editable according to bdjk's source

[ashen pulsar]

valid

although i do see use cases for saving sp by using charges

[hollow trail]

depends what the cost of the stuff is

but yeah?

charge is 30 right

[ashen pulsar]

yeah ofc fuuka in base game makes it irrelevant but it's def something you could play around with

yeah they're 30 in this game

which is kinda raw

[hollow trail]

wouldn't that uhhhhhh

only make it "save sp" for almighty and severes

mitsuru economic w?

[ashen pulsar]

situationally beneficial

[hollow trail]

isnt this bad for mitsuru actually

she has the concentrate and the rakunda

she'd lose 2 turns

[ashen pulsar]

doggo/items

[hollow trail]

ok but forget those

it specifically counters her kit

[ashen pulsar]

blame atlus

the same idea is there with or without taking into account the exact multiplier

being able to selfcast a charge is good for theurgia tho

it's worth the turn loss

[hollow trail]

right so self pop concentrate

rakunda

severe/theurgy

[ashen pulsar]

pretty much

although rakunda first is probably more beneficial to the team

[hollow trail]

right

[ashen pulsar]

in most circumstances

[hollow trail]

i have a bad habit of concentrating first because it doesnt run timer

[ashen pulsar]

did it have a timer in sh2

ik karns did but i never actually used charges

[hollow trail]

idk

[ashen pulsar]

but yeah a lot of stuff that can be messed around with in btlcalc even w/o bp editing

[dreamy orchid]

it does make concentate skill terrible tho

common midsuru L i suppose

[hollow trail]

we just had a convo going over why it wouldn't be that bad

[ashen pulsar]

[hollow trail]

2.0x is fine i think

[dreamy orchid]

2x would be fine

[hollow trail]

no negatives

it becomes a tech skill

[dreamy orchid]

i do kind of hate how easy it is to get charge/concentate on everyone tho

[hollow trail]

rather than just "make number big"

[dreamy orchid]

cus like it literally removes mitsuru's gimmick of having mind charge

[ashen pulsar]

well there are still negatives implicit with using a charge

but yeah not directly impacted

[hollow trail]

wtf is dyinghpratio

[ashen pulsar]

do party members still ask to leave in this game

[hollow trail]

no

[ashen pulsar]

no idea then

maybe just dialog to communicate they're low?

[hollow trail]

might be when the animation for critical state triggers

[dreamy orchid]

unused mechanic?

[hollow trail]

or

imagine this

what if it controls when ai stops using phys due to costs

[ashen pulsar]

or better idea

[dreamy orchid]

wdym ai doesn't use phys, all shinji knows is basic attack

[ashen pulsar]

they secretly start doing more damage at low hp... we could call it "capote" or something

or whatever arrow's passive that does that is called

[hollow trail]

based

thunder reign truthers

[ashen pulsar]

[dreamy orchid]

its funny how that still wouldn't even make it good

[hollow trail]

i meeeeeean

[ashen pulsar]

if crit rates were lower

[hollow trail]

Aki and Mitsuru would double the chances of enabling crit

[hollow trail]

which they are in mq!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ashen pulsar]

purr

[dreamy orchid]

if crit rates were lower and every relevant enemy didn't already null ailments or specifically just shock/freeze

[ashen pulsar]

you can also reduce rebellion and revolution here in btlcalc

[dreamy orchid]

there is no practical use for shock/freeze don't let bdjk gaslight you

[hollow trail]

you'll never guess what i've done

[ashen pulsar]

your mother?

[dreamy orchid]

reaper no longer nulls freeze?

[hollow trail]

i could...

resist freeze or insta-heal at least

idk

[dreamy orchid]

buffing shock to be insanely high freeze would have the adverse effect of making koro's revolution less desirable

[hollow trail]

so you have to exploit immediately

[ashen pulsar]

instaheal is kinda flames

[hollow trail]

yeeee what if i make them vuln to freeze/shock and make them equally crit-enabling

[dreamy orchid]

he'd need instaheal to not die in one turn

[hollow trail]

but they have instaheal

[dreamy orchid]

but at the same time, i think shock giving insane crit is silly when it doesn't wear off

like you basically would just get 4 free crits

[ashen pulsar]

give aki a purpose fr

[hollow trail]

epic fes reference

[ashen pulsar]

this requires more setup than base game

[dreamy orchid]

well like aki doesn't even get severe so he's not even good for shock

[ashen pulsar]

theurgia

[hollow trail]

theurgia

[dreamy orchid]

like his theurgia is good for it ig but buff amp boy isn't exactly fast at charging it

[hollow trail]

he's the fastest????????

[ashen pulsar]

isn't ken faster

[dreamy orchid]

nah ken faster

[hollow trail]

he's literally the one character with an exception to use theurgia in normal battles because it's that fast

[dreamy orchid]

aki is bad for charging it because he barely crits which means he gets less extra turns which means less overall charge

[ashen pulsar]

ken critting

[dreamy orchid]

best character for it hypothetically would be someone with a beneficial condition and also high crit rate

which is why shinji's is pretty pog

[hollow trail]

one thing i hate about shock/freeze is that it makes fire/wind feel inherently inferior

[dreamy orchid]

well ken gets more opportunities for extra turns in normal gameplay anyhow

[dreamy orchid]

raises costs for elec/ice but not fire/wind

24 sp maragidyne vs 32 sp mabufudyne

[hollow trail]

yes i know

kinda negligible

i think

[dreamy orchid]

it adds up a lot

[ashen pulsar]

not when you'll have good sp balancing king

[hollow trail]

its also 24 for both in p3n

32 is fes

[ashen pulsar]

atlus moment

[dreamy orchid]

yeah which is bullshit

[hollow trail]

(and MQ)

[dreamy orchid]

in fes maragidyne is only 24

fire is baller there

[ashen pulsar]

i wonder if statistically the weaknesses are more common

[dreamy orchid]

generally fire tends to be the most common weakness

idk about p3n tho

[hollow trail]

surely if i gave aki thunder reign he'd be peak.

[dreamy orchid]

aki with severe sounds braindead

aki better at magic than mitsuru!!!!

[hollow trail]

erm

[dreamy orchid]

it wouldn't even make him good but it would make him directly outclass mitsuru

[hollow trail]

no

[ashen pulsar]

no of course not

[dreamy orchid]

nah he'd be better

[hollow trail]

"outclass" and it's just a matter of equipping something better

be real

[dreamy orchid]

buff amp is better than magic ability

[ashen pulsar]

there's exactly as many enemies weak to fire as elec and ice as wind

[dreamy orchid]

lmao

[ashen pulsar]

mfw

[dreamy orchid]

its a higher boost

[hollow trail]

oh so buff amp boy is good now

🥴

[dreamy orchid]

buff amp isn't a bad effect

its just that its a meme when people say it makes aki op

[ashen pulsar]

good effect on a bad character

[dreamy orchid]

his real problem is his kit

buff amp is way better than aigis' phys amp for practical use but its on a shitty character who fills no real low and is cucked by a terrible theurgia

[ashen pulsar]

buff amp would be insane on aigis or protag or someone who could actually use it

[dreamy orchid]

if magic were competetive and you gave aki severe, he'd be defacto the best magic user due to buff amp

because no other character gets a characteristic to boost magic

[hollow trail]

skill issue, i think

[ashen pulsar]

give midsuru ability and mastery instead of ailment meme

[dreamy orchid]

skill issue on mitsuru's part mainly

why did they shaft her and yukari so bad

[ashen pulsar]

they hate lesbians.

[dreamy orchid]

rakunda at least lets her replace aki for the one dungeon you get to use her in

[dreamy orchid]

the ailment thing is awful btw

+15% additive crit against an enemy with an ailment

like lmao

[ashen pulsar]

too bad freeze is already guaranteed

[dreamy orchid]

distress is also like 60%

and enemies start every battle with distress at late game

[hollow trail]

marin karining to give junpei good crit chances will be peak in mq...

[ashen pulsar]

real

[hollow trail]

oh shit yeah what if i just

make ambush entirely disabled

[dreamy orchid]

them making her more ailment focused is funny because ailments are inherently powercrept

[dreamy orchid]

you can do that?

or are you just gonna remove the items from the store

lmao

[hollow trail]

uh, yeah? just make the shop not sell the url

LMAO

[ashen pulsar]

[dreamy orchid]

based though tbh

fucking stupid ass p5 system that literally lets you not even need to play the game

also disabling ambush would let reaper actually go first

[hollow trail]

i also want to make theurgy reset to 0 after every battle

IDEALLY, make the bar sync across all party members, so if one uses it everyone sets to 0

but that one's not possible

[ashen pulsar]

yet!

i believe in you king

[dreamy orchid]

if we only get one theurgia i know im exclusively using it on ken or junpei

everyone else's a fraud

[hollow trail]

i really need to figure out if there's any script running after a battle ends

so i can hook theurgia delete and tiredness counter function

[dreamy orchid]

shuffle time?

[hollow trail]

probably not bf

[dreamy orchid]

would tiredness mechanic restoration be limited to just making members go back home

[hollow trail]

unfortunately yes

[dreamy orchid]

😔

FORCE PROTAG TO GO HOME

HIGH IQ

thats funny af though

[hollow trail]

ideally i can hook this into field init or something

so after a battle if someone is tired they'll speak out and leave

[ashen pulsar]

run around charging theurgia

finally do it

they all leave

[hollow trail]

i mean

if i can do this i'd also reset meter to 0 after all fights

so you can't walk into a gatekeeper and 4-nuke

[ashen pulsar]

4-nuke anubis?

[dreamy orchid]

i mean if it resets to zero after all fights though then it removes half the reason you'd even fight normal enemies in this game

not as if they give relevant amounts of xp

[ashen pulsar]

which can be edited

[dreamy orchid]

the xp scaling is so funny in this game

[hollow trail]

its not like they matter in mq

[ashen pulsar]

[dreamy orchid]

normal enemies op cus they let you get arrow rain before you even unlock mitsuru

[ashen pulsar]

shuffle time truther

[vagrant axle]

hey so can you change the dialogue for yukari to "will you marry-gadine me"

[hollow trail]

uhhhh which dialogue even

[ashen pulsar]

hug her

[dreamy orchid]

the hug is gone... its over...

[hollow trail]

[ashen pulsar]

wgoat

[vagrant axle]

any. even the very first one.

she doesn't even use fire but we can't marry junpei

[iron pilot]

Yes

Anyways I'm gonna try Hierophant and Lovers now with the mod on

[iron pilot]

I had instances of going first even if it's not an ambush, I think it's RNG if everyone's 99 (OG P3 reference)

99 Ag, I mean

Yeah I had the mod installed so the reaper's 99 too

[iron pilot]

It's honestly fine, the other ailments give 20% or so, although distress is kinda cracked, it'd be hard af to miss a crit with that on

I wouldn't mind Akihiko actually getting a niche although "best magic" probably ain't it

He's kinda fucked, hard to think of what he can do with that kit

Hmmmm you guys talking about the tiredness mechanic?

Well if you guys somehow manage to pull that off, hopefully it makes people switch up members while exploring

a way to make me use mid without creating a diss video about it

Idk how tf Junpei gets called bad in early and mid game, just fucking use ailments jesus

Now when stuff starts to get nulled he can stand on his own

[iron pilot]

Btw I'm gonna make a magic nuke to see how that goes

Sandman seems to be kinda good for this, actually

[iron pilot]

Mate I think Getsu-Ei is still overtuned

Vanilla

MQ

MQ but with magic

same conditions for all of those

Sandman has Ice Boost and Single Target Boost

I didn't crit once so that was funny

you'd think it's crit immune

but no, it isn't

Akihiko might be good here because his theurgia gauge charges up quickly

however, a normal player won't have buff amp at this point so it technically does shit damage

did you change the AI of the boss btw

I don't think you did but it became smart and started to target Mitsuru with Agidyne

before it just targeted Yukari

first ever random move done by a Reload boss???

[hollow trail]

i didn't touch it yet

i also can't undertune getsu anymore it's already 80 BP that's just plain ass lol

[iron pilot]

hm...

maybe it'll be fine

torrent shot kinda strong too

Maybe tweak the -la spells a bit

[hollow trail]

i didn't want to because the power potential is already lower than t1 and t2 magic

[iron pilot]

that or lock out some spells for later

the members having it is fine though, that can be their edge

[hollow trail]

There's some situations where I think it's maybe okay

Getsu-ei is a full moon boost skill
Torrent Shot is a gamble multihit

Their BP is lower than the magic on average but when the skills are used in a scenario where they're at their peak condition they're good

i think that's okay?

getsu ei is gonna fall off hard soon

might actually make koromaru's phys ass thinking abt it

[iron pilot]

he's still support so he can take it

even then though, people will be stuck with -la spells until Black Frost iirc

37 I think?

and slash boost is 29 so Getsu-Ei will get a bit of a boost until then

I'll just send the fight hol' up

[ashen pulsar]

could always make the boost weaker

[hollow trail]

i could!!

based fullmoonboostcalc

[iron pilot]

lmao

[ashen pulsar]

🐱

[hollow trail]

vanilla getsu is like

what

1.5x

[iron pilot]

no

it's 1.75x

I thought that was uneditable though

[ashen pulsar]

yeah something like that

It's 1.75 in p3n but 1.5 originally

[hollow trail]

is it? there's a dedicated table for moonphase boosts

[ashen pulsar]

(he's clueless)

there's just no template yet

[hollow trail]

i mean

[iron pilot]

idk man

[hollow trail]

it's a dt

i don't need a template for a dt

i can import it into UE4

lol

[ashen pulsar]

op

[hollow trail]

P3R-Project.uproj my beloved

[iron pilot]

zamn

good then

[hollow trail]

i can't do this with blueprints

but DTs

yeah

[ashen pulsar]

purrfect

[hollow trail]

i can't figure out equipment passives man

there's a "skillID" field

but it's not using the passives from skill table

values are different

[ashen pulsar]

reference?

[iron pilot]

Hmmm

Might be a good idea to talk to the guy that documented mostly everything

[ashen pulsar]

the originals did that too lmao

[hollow trail]

I wanna make that steel pipe you get for MC from Elizabeth a Strike-type weapon

idk why i just think a steel pipe having slash is stupid

[ashen pulsar]

true

[iron pilot]

Could you make the Surt Sword on fire

Why tf is it not on fire

[hollow trail]

Wdym by on fire

[ashen pulsar]

did they remove that

[hollow trail]

visually? i can't do visual shit i SUCK

[iron pilot]

They didn't use the model that's on surt

[ashen pulsar]

you're awesome

[iron pilot]

They have a different sword for it

Idk why

[ashen pulsar]

L

[iron pilot]

But Surt's clearly there with a sword on fire bro

Tf

[hollow trail]

atlus made like 2 models per wep lol

[iron pilot]

Oh yeah if you had any idea of the magic weapons critting, apparently they can't

[hollow trail]

they can't?? uhhhh uhhhhhhhhhhhhh idk if it's magic being hardcoded to not crit or them actually setting crit to 0

but if the latter i can just give em crit

[iron pilot]

Soul drop has 100% crit rate

OP

Or was it snuff soul

One of the SP restores

[hollow trail]

uhh where

that sounds broken

[ashen pulsar]

most likely

It'd be an effect that doesn't activate

[iron pilot]

It doesn't actually happen but like, yeah if you look at the item properties you'll see 100% crit rate in there

Lmfao

[hollow trail]

LLLLLLL

[iron pilot]

Well anyways

Are you going to touch the availability of equips too

[hollow trail]

I won't say yes yet

[ashen pulsar]

but?

[hollow trail]

but i can always do whatever i want in the future

[ashen pulsar]

[hollow trail]

i might

I wonder

if liz using summon will crash game like nyx does

like if the arena supports more people

[iron pilot]

Summon wot???

The other attendants?

Would be funny

[hollow trail]

i know it doesn't support the party, they'll all be inside each other

[iron pilot]

Sus?

[ashen pulsar]

😈

[hollow trail]

ok it doesn't make much sense but i did want to see if she could summon cognitive strega so there'd finally be a v3

[iron pilot]

Oh shit

That sounds goated ngl

[hollow trail]

yeah but atlus made sure battle arenas only have the slots they need and no bonus

usually in older games you could spawn them no problem

nyx crashes if you summon anyone

[iron pilot]

What if you make it so they fight in a different place

Would that work?

"part of the cognitive effect"

[hollow trail]

uhh can i change battle arenas in encounters?

[iron pilot]

Idk

[ashen pulsar]

hmmm. Hmmmm what if Liz summoned 4 versions of herself that all had different affinities so there's value in multi speccing, her main target could be invulnerable and give buffs and extra turns to her clones as well as change their affinities

[hollow trail]

(i wanted nyx to summon the fortune roulette)

[iron pilot]

P3 movie can't be done

L

[hollow trail]

CYBER LIZ?????

[ashen pulsar]

[ashen pulsar]

evil

[hollow trail]

lmfao make 4 liz models and it's just ms paint bucketed blue red green and purple

[ashen pulsar]