Persona 3 Reload | Master Quest

[iron pilot]

For somethin'

I'll try that out too if you get into it

[hollow trail]

its my current plan

i think it'll be similar to vanilla tbh, just with more urgency to defeat the summons

i'm editing them mostly and not really priestess herself

jack frost makes solo a piece of cake

so im punishing that a bit

some agi

[iron pilot]

Jack Frost with Agi 🔥

[hollow trail]

skillcard gaming

i put zio on my valkyrie when i played lol

i didnt use jack frost

i used her for ice resist

[iron pilot]

That's the meta for that fight like no joke

[hollow trail]

ye but jakfost with 4 elements is also cracked

shrimply card

[iron pilot]

Nah I'll probably just give it Agi

Last time it was just fused in Garu

And Maragi gems

[hollow trail]

zio solos the entire monorail with the exception of the pink hand which is agi (junpei or whatever else, you're giving your JF agi)

then the boss is all about ice null

i gotta think if i want priestess herself to punish ice nullification

or

if the minions simply use agi, which jack frost cannot protect from at that level anyway

unless mutation?

priestess actually punishes downs with Assault Dive, could make her use that if you null ice

with higher crit chance

idk

[iron pilot]

You'll see my genius soon enough fr

[hollow trail]

i'd rather know ahead of time if there's some dumbass cheese so i dont waste hours coding a bad boss

but fair

[iron pilot]

There's no dodge fire to mutate from reliably so it'll be very tough

[hollow trail]

i dont mind dodge fire

null fire would be an issue tho

[iron pilot]

So I think being a bit more lax on the first fight's just fine

[iron pilot]

No I mean, the way it's reliably done is you get dodge fire to mutate into at least resist

[hollow trail]

basically i'm banking on the limited pool of personas you can have at that point in the game, if you are nulling ice, you are almost certainly using jack frost, so i am making the boss gamble and summon an agi minion

this could go bad

[iron pilot]

But since there isn't any dodge skills at idk, level 10?

[hollow trail]

but i think its ok

[iron pilot]

I think it'll be fine

You can't do anything against them using Maragi gems though

[hollow trail]

you can't solo full moon operations right

i'd have to add a special script for that?

[iron pilot]

For that specific one, pretty sure you can't

[iron pilot]

Oh yeah mate

I found a level 74 save

I'll try MQ reaper with this

[hollow trail]

oh pog

yeah my intention is reaper being done on 1/31

in preparation for nyx

(and liz)

(idk what to do for mq liz)

(probably full rewrite because i hate liz)

[iron pilot]

Personally I'd just buff her damage

So that the pattern makes sense

And somehow nerf your damage output

Because, well...

Rn I'm level 78 and I was managing ok until the reaper made my members run away

Can that be fixed, like

Make it so the members can't run away lol

Anyways, as I was saying

Definitely not funny when we can melt 1/4 of her health no problem

Even 1/2 if we use king and I

[hollow trail]

wait by her do you mean the reaper

oh liz

my bad LOL

[iron pilot]

I beat it

I was 78

hopped to 95

Want to see?

Koro pussied out at the end wtf

Hmmmm for those stuff for Liz, only buff damage is possible, no?

She already has 99 En lmfao

But we still melt her

I tried doing a tetrakarn at the end since I noticed the "last phase" does phys a lot

But no, bro kept spamming magic

Then Koro got feared and ran away

Honestly I'd warrant at least removing null freeze and shock on this fucker

Because there will be no reason to bring out Mitsuru otherwise

And Akihiko, to a certain extent

Although if the purpose is it's supposed to be beaten at the latter parts of January, I can see the idea

I'll also post me doing it with an optimized party

[hollow trail]

yee sure

[hollow trail]

huh? no wand? i hopped 85 to 96

[hollow trail]

I see the vision, would make them a lot more viable

wouldn't it be too viable though? Freeze enabling guaranteed scarlet havoc nuke

aki being still a fraud because shock is ass

[iron pilot]

That's practically just gonna be just for the earlier parts of the fight (Mitsuru has the longest Theurgia charge in the game)

That and you can't possibly have Diamond Dust spam as very viable since she's run out of SP after 5 of those

At the point when she can Diamond Dust, everyone lost their Theurgia already so it'd be Brave Blade or God's Hand being used at best

Unless you stall and delay for it, which is a strategy by itself

The protag can technically spam it too I guess but hmmmmmm...

If you want a compromise, just making them resistant works

[hollow trail]

mitsuru with invig 2+3 any good there?

for freeze spam

[iron pilot]

It's help a bit

Although practically that just makes Diamond Dust 36 and Concentrate 20

And her SP pool here is....

Abysmal?

Lmfao

479 SP pool

Might have some Strength cards in there, at 99

I believe it's around 420 or so at 70s

That's only 7 hits or so until she runs out

[hollow trail]

is there really any benefit to freezing for the crit when the rates are so good

what's the freeze rate of diamond dust

similarly for shock, is wasting a turn really that good

(why is shock so bad)

[iron pilot]

60% but Mitsuru's innate ailment boosts should make it 80%

[iron pilot]

It's an extra 35% flat crit rate, technically better than Apt Pupil ever will be

Wait, no actually

Shock is fucking weird

[(Lu of user/Lu of enemy) x Base Critical Rate of skill x 2 (If the user has Apt Pupil) or 1 (Base) or 0.5 (If the enemy has Sharp Student)] + 7 (If Rebellion effect is active) + 15 (If Revolution effect is active) + 10 or 5 (If the user has Critical Amp/Boost, meaning those don't stack) + 15 or 5 (If the user has Critical Rate Amp/Boost, like before those don't stack) + 7 or 15 if Ailment Burst or Surge is active (A check if Mitsuru's in the party from what I've been told, will not add anything if she isn't there) + 60 if target is distressed + 20 if target is confused + 20 if target is inflicted with fear + 15 if target is inflicted with dizzy

And apparently it will check if the target is Shocked or Frozen at this point (Effectively the former will be 35 while the latter is 100)

It apparently will run an algorithm that rolls between 1 to 99, and if the rolled number that you got is within the parameters of the number you got from the enemy being shocked or frozen, you crit (Since Freeze has 100, it's guaranteed. While Shock is 35 so it isn't). Assuming you got a 34 and below while the enemy is shocked, congrats you crit. If not, the game will check again but using the crit value you obtained from the previous formula. More or less, the game checks for crit twice for shocked targets sometimes, one using shock's 35 value, and if that failed it'll use the crit value in the normal calculation

More or less, shock makes the game calculate the crit rate twice

One using Shock's 35%

The other being your calculated crit rate

[hollow trail]

sorry... 80???

i thought freeze was like 10% at most

i rarely ever see it happening

[iron pilot]

So for the reaper here, I have less than 20% crit rate using Brave Blade unless I have 99 Lu myself + 15% from crit rate amp + 15% from Revolution + 7% from Rebellion effect

[iron pilot]

The game has a lot of null freeze mfs

So yeah....

I only ever saw the use on enemies with null ice, since those usually don't have null freeze with them

Oddly enough, there's a decent number of those lol

[hollow trail]

wait you can freeze ice null enemies?

[iron pilot]

Ice break

Or theurgia

[hollow trail]

oooohhhh right

ice break actually good???

W

[iron pilot]

I cheesed the tank with breaks tbf

https://youtu.be/WHqqb3DdD3U?feature=shared

Accidental no theurgia moment

[celest kindle]

Mitsuru's slow theurgy is prob cuz bosses and shit tend to be immune to her ailments

really slows down the progress

[iron pilot]

Nah everyone has an innate charge rate

[celest kindle]

oh?

[iron pilot]

Mitsuru's inherently slow as fuck

Protag's mid

[celest kindle]

Ouch

[iron pilot]

While Ken's technically the goat

[celest kindle]

What even his theurgy condition

MC's i mean

[iron pilot]

Use persona

[celest kindle]

Isn't that a condition for everyone

[iron pilot]

His charge condition's good so it doesn't feel as slow

No

Lol

[celest kindle]

Huh

Everyone tended to get more theurgy when using their personas

[iron pilot]

Doing something is a charge thing but Protag gets more out of it by just using personas

[celest kindle]

Ah i see

Surprised it's not like tied to weakness or something

since he gets the weakness boost thing later on

[iron pilot]

I'm surprised Koro doesn't get that perk

And I honestly feel like buff amp is more appropriate for the protag

[celest kindle]

It'd certainly be interesting

but what would you give Aki

[iron pilot]

A different thing altogether, likely about debuffs

And I'd remove Koro's debilitate and give it to Akihiko

Koro would get weakness boost and amp

[celest kindle]

So you'd make him more of an attacker

(Koro)

yeah i fw the vision i think

[iron pilot]

Koro has decent support capabilities with just Revolution and Power Howling

[celest kindle]

Debuff Aki sounds interesting but it'd be weird with his whole boxer thing

[iron pilot]

It's more than fine

[celest kindle]

Tru

[hollow trail]

her theurgy isn't ailment only

[celest kindle]

Honestly i kinda got rid of Revolution near the end of the game

[celest kindle]

Oh?

[hollow trail]

same as aki, if an enemy is debuffed at the start of her turn, she gains charge

mistranslation

[celest kindle]

Oh so she's ailments and debuffing

ic ic

Is it actually explained what they do in JP?

[hollow trail]

it's unclear

eng for aki says "strengthens himself" which is bullshit

any buff works

[celest kindle]

Since the charge conditions are usually just descriptions that nudge you to a way of charging their meter

[iron pilot]

It's great storytelling

While yes, Boxers are headstrong and powerful, they are also tactful in fights. Weakening targets, being single target focused, and being more tactical is fitting for a boxer's moveset

Even more so for Akihiko, the lesson that needed to be drilled on his head in the course of the game is that his own power to protect isn't everything he should focus on. He needs to rely on the people he cares for too.

This is something somewhat lost nowadays

[celest kindle]

Yukari's the only one that's outwardly explained to you back in the theurgy tutorial

[hollow trail]

It's story related yeah

he's stronger by protecting others

[celest kindle]

Oh i didn't thick about that actually

[celest kindle]

Yk if you look at it from that pov you could give Shinji's charge condition to him lol

Isn't Shinji's thing literally
take damage

[iron pilot]

Nah Shinjiro can keep his

(he literally does this for Ken)

Lmfaoooooo

[hollow trail]

nah aki wouldn't grow into a suicidal build basically lol

[iron pilot]

Plus he's essentially in the mindset of a man about to die

[hollow trail]

reckless is what he was before evolving

[celest kindle]

True enough but in the aspect of protecting others i think that's fitting in a way

[iron pilot]

How about for Akihiko, his debuffs last longer

[celest kindle]

you could couple that with making his debuffs like

stronger

like having a higher effect compared to others

[iron pilot]

Nah it can't be both

That'd be a tad too on the nose

[celest kindle]

aw

[iron pilot]

Plus that's harder to implement than buffs being only for one person

What if Makoto does the debuff

[hollow trail]

if his ability was debuff boost instead of buff boost he'd actually have a fighting chance against koromaru

cuz no one is using akihiko as the recipient of a tarukaja let's be real bro

[iron pilot]

B-but muh Auto Tarukabellion boots....

[celest kindle]

He's the recipient of my Matarukaja

but that's collateral and not intentional most of the time

[iron pilot]

Stfu bro Akihiko will literally be last in the turn order, Junpei, Shinjiro, Koro and protag will melt

[celest kindle]

😢

AG-tied turn order kinda blows

[iron pilot]

Well nowadays we have people thinking Akihiko's good just because his peak regular damage is higher (not relevant)

Thanks fatlus

Ok time to prove that Akihiko's objectively a fraud

[dreamy orchid]

minions using agi would be good

since both jack frost and valkyrie are weak to it iirc and they are like hard meta for the fight

[dreamy orchid]

mitsuru has freeze and ailment boost

oh right you said boosts

reading diff

are ailment boosters only 1.25x in this game? fusion calc spreading misinfo about them then

[dreamy orchid]

wait wouldn't it be 93% either way

[iron pilot]

I never seen any info about it either

[dreamy orchid]

assuming both freeze boost and ailment boost are 1.25x

[bronze seal]

i haven't tested it, but AutoBadStatusBooster in BtlCalc is 1.5. note merciless also decreased your ailment rate by 80%.

BadHitRatioBonus is also 1.5, which i assume is foul breath

[iron pilot]

How tf does 80% ailment reduction rate work

It felt like the 60% is still accurate on the times I used it

[bronze seal]

oh, sorry, i mean it multiplies it by x0.80

[dreamy orchid]

yeah its 20% less accurate in merciless

[bronze seal]

so maybe 60% ailment with ailment boost on merciless would be 72%

i assume ailemt and charm/etc boost simply don't stack

[iron pilot]

That makes more sense

[bronze seal]

max ailment rate is still 99%, so no guarantees

[dreamy orchid]

they always have stacked so idk

is there any reason why they wouldn't?

[bronze seal]

they don't say they stack

[iron pilot]

They stack in P5 but there's a way lower cap

Funniest shit ever

[dreamy orchid]

they don't explictly say they stack in any game but they always do

its an atlus west description issue i think

[bronze seal]

if they stack, that would give you 99% very easy

[dreamy orchid]

with theurgia you'd def get to 99%

[bronze seal]

are there any skills that don't mention they stack but actually do?

[iron pilot]

Good question

[bronze seal]

i don't believe there are

[iron pilot]

Beforehand, the elemental boosts don't tell

[bronze seal]

yes, i know there were some in earlier games

oh, wait, i checked the ailment boost description, and it says it does stack. the reason it doesn't seem to is because almost every boss resists ailments.

the specific charm/dizzy boosts say they don't stack, but ailment boost does, so

[iron pilot]

Funniest shit ever

[bronze seal]

i remember someone told me evade and dodge don't stack after i put them both on jin and takaya, but they say they do? i guess he was just wrong.

[iron pilot]

They don't

Wot

[bronze seal]

yeah, it says on the fusion calc they don't

wait, there's no way i edited their descriptions and added that myself, is there...?

[iron pilot]

Even then it's still shit compared to Ali Dance

[dreamy orchid]

boosts don't specificy that they stack, only amp and driver do

technically crit boosters don't specify that they work alongside apt pupil

single and multi target boost don't specify that they stack with other boosts

[iron pilot]

Would have been helpful if it was told for crit rate passives

Go fuck yourself game

[dreamy orchid]

characteristic passives don't even specify their actual effects, nevermind whether they stack with other passives or not

invigorates and regens don't specify stacking with each other

[bronze seal]

hmm, okay. my conclusion is that it's just consistent sometimes.

[iron pilot]

Nah the conclusion is atlus descs are dumb and stupid and dumb

[dreamy orchid]

endure and enduring soul don't specify that they stack (DOOR_Joker_Kun reference)

[bronze seal]

it says they stack in my edited descriptions. i gotta go look at the vanilla one.

[iron pilot]

Homonculus should be above endures ngl man

[dreamy orchid]

true but atlus is funny like that

also homunculus should not work on party members

[iron pilot]

Not faithful....

[bronze seal]

absolutely, i want to change that if i can. bastards stealing all my homunculi.

someone had to die to turn into that, and they just use them like they're candy

oh, yeah, i apparently changed it to say it stacked. i have no idea why the hell i would do that. no memory of it.

[iron pilot]

Well uh, pretty sure it doesn't lmao

[bronze seal]

it definitely doesn't

[iron pilot]

Ali Dance the goat

[bronze seal]

my skill descriptions say counter stacks but the other two do not stack. i must have been sleepwalking when i did this.

[dreamy orchid]

50% counter

[bronze seal]

3 skills for 50% chance to reflect all phys skills, or 3 skills of repel slash/strike/pierce 100%

but, yeah, the repel skills are harder to get, so i guess it's balanced

even if they did stack...maybe.

ok, probably not

[iron pilot]

They don't

[bronze seal]

yeah, they don't

[iron pilot]

50% high counter is OG's "Akihiko's top 3 party member" myth

[bronze seal]

i have known for years that they don't, and yet i still wrote that counter 1 stacks but the other 2 don't. i was absolutely sleepwalking or having a manic episode or something when i changed that.

[iron pilot]

The misinformation demon possessed you

[bronze seal]

same ones that haunt the megaten wiki

they at least changed that reload nyx still has 50% res

still claims that reload chidori is a real fight, though

[hollow trail]

every full moon boss is wrong

[iron pilot]

The wiki's existence is a sin.

[bronze seal]

yeah, i could correct magatsu mandala with the actual siddham script used in it, but they'd probably revert it anyway

they're japanese buddhist monks, probably

[hollow trail]

lol

lmfao even

priestess has junpeak magic hidden weakness

[dreamy orchid]

hasn't she always had that?

[hollow trail]

idfk

if you mean in fes idk

[dreamy orchid]

but yeah thats why agi jack frost is meta

[hollow trail]

jak fost

anyway the full moons all have hidden stuff

[dreamy orchid]

jack off

[hollow trail]

aki in lovers is literally shafted

hidden elec resist

[dreamy orchid]

well aki is a phys user tbf

sonic punch

[hollow trail]

strike is blockneutral

cant crit i assume

[dreamy orchid]

no block neutral means no ailments

its so that you don't distress it

[hollow trail]

i know

but its phys

ah

right

[dreamy orchid]

you can def crit

i assume they screwed over aki to incentivise mitsuru

lmao

[hard vault]

Makes sense

Da Man had it all covered

[iron pilot]

https://youtu.be/uGpy38riCQ8

[hollow trail]

31 minut

[iron pilot]

yeah that's why I said Jack Frost with Agi

[hollow trail]

well

im removing that

[iron pilot]

really?

I mean, people just use phys anyways so idk

[hollow trail]

yes, hidden affinities is fucking dogshit design and i will remove it in every battle i touch

[iron pilot]

might be cool to keep in

[hollow trail]

until someone makes a mod that changes the analysis screen to say 200% instead of having a ❗ for weak

i am not adding different resistances

if the "hidden" resistances can be analyzed, i'll use it in more battles

[iron pilot]

L

Anyways yeah 30 mins

No repels, repels might eat up a quarter of that

[hollow trail]

i just think it's shit design in general

you're taking something that by definition is suboptimal (fire magic on junpei) and you're, without telegraphing it whatsoever, inflating its damage

only way you'd find out was if you fucked around

junpei is a phys user though

[hard vault]

Either that or you're doing an Orpheus run but

[hollow trail]

the fire damage is there to casualize the game

priestess is an exception and this is 100% here to account for the new players who think early game junpei is a fire user

he starts becoming blatantly phys-oriented later so there's no need to inflate fire damage in subsequent battles

[hard vault]

Little do they know the real fire user is Koromaru (barely counts)

[hollow trail]

it's a less offensive version of making shadow yukiko weak to ice

because that one actually gives off the positive feedback of "chie is a ice user!!"

"make her do more ice magic"

[hard vault]

I honestly forget that Chie even had elemental skills in her kit

[hollow trail]

every single person i know without fail stopped using her because "her ice magic got replaced by teddie's so she's kinda useless"

casual friends i mean

[iron pilot]

Depends, I just see it as a mechanic that can give more incentive to being more well-rounded

[hollow trail]

it's a good mechanic if there's actual feedback being relayed to the player

in persona you either aim for weaknesses or, if there is none, go for the highest damage, which general rule, is physical damage

spamming random elements even though you know the enemy has no "real" weaknesses goes against that design

but if it was in analysis, that would make a lot more sense

[hard vault]

I get the idea is like

Make Chie the powerful one here because she's the one closest to Yukiko but like

[hollow trail]

this is me going off the actual intended atlus design for these games, not necessarily what i think is best

[hard vault]

Iirc at the point of Yukiko's battle she's the only one with Bash skills yeah?

[hollow trail]

but if you're following that design thread, hidden resistances goes against that

[hard vault]

So if so they could've easily used that instead of ice

[dreamy orchid]

They don't appear on the hud, but if you press the analysis or assist button, Fuuka will tell you they're there

[hollow trail]

fuuka
priestess

[dreamy orchid]

like Elizabeth's resistances aren't shown on the hud but if you've scanned her and press assist, fuuka will default you to Ice for Surt for example

[hard vault]

Where Fuuka

[iron pilot]

Oh wait, I get what you mean actually

[dreamy orchid]

Well that's as far as the game tells you about them

[iron pilot]

The autoselect skills function

It does thst

[dreamy orchid]

try pressing the assist button in the priestess fight after discovering the fire vulnerability

and see if it defaults you to fire

[hollow trail]

this is not really a solution either tbh

many reasons but mainly

fuuka's callout is verbal

[dreamy orchid]

yeah they don't convey it well visually

[hard vault]

That feels weird given there's no visual feedback telling you it's more powerful than normal skills

[hollow trail]

and i am not using the fucking dub lol

[dreamy orchid]

no its subtitled too

[hollow trail]

where

[hard vault]

That's crazy what

Missed out on English Junpei

[dreamy orchid]

doesn't she have subtitles when analysing things

[hollow trail]

dont care

[dreamy orchid]

like where her hud icon is

[hollow trail]

yes

she doesnt mention weaknesses lol

she mentions her theurgy state

[dreamy orchid]

if you press the assist button you will get a subtitle which explains it in the top left

i remember it happening idk

doors can you test it on liz rq

[hollow trail]

ok but the assist button relies on knowing the affinities, and for priestess that means spamming random shit

and mitsuru won't tell you

[dreamy orchid]

yea i don't think you can convey it well for priestess

uh maybe make it an actual weakness but make priestess immune to down?

[hollow trail]

assist is also not a valid way of relaying this information, because as far as i'm concerned if i see assist picking a skill the enemy isn't weak to i will just assume it's either bugged or picking based off of some random BP criteria

[dreamy orchid]

that'd convey it better visually

[hollow trail]

priestess already cant be downed

[iron pilot]

Weaknesses have lower multiplier than vulnerability last I recall

[dreamy orchid]

depends on diffculty

[hollow trail]

excuse me what

[dreamy orchid]

merciless weakness is over 2x so its actually stronger than vulnerability

[hollow trail]

ah

[dreamy orchid]

but for hard and below, vulnerability is stronger

[iron pilot]

Wot

Is it?

[dreamy orchid]

weak and crits are 2.01x on merciless

[iron pilot]

I thought it'd be like, crits

[dreamy orchid]

but they're 1.5x on hard

[iron pilot]

Bro

[hollow trail]

hard is harder then?

[iron pilot]

That's 1%

One fucking percent

[dreamy orchid]

still matters

[iron pilot]

Nah Hard has like

0.8x damage

While merciless has 0.6x

[dreamy orchid]

well no cus player damage is 0.6x on merciless while its 0.8x on hard

[iron pilot]

If you do the math, it's basically the same

[dreamy orchid]

a crit/weak on merciless is about equal to a crit/weak on hard, but normal damage is lower

[iron pilot]

Except that 1 fucking percent

[dreamy orchid]

also enemies do more damage on merciless

[hollow trail]

same as royal

[dreamy orchid]

well the gap isn't nearly as big here

[iron pilot]

The meme is technically true but 1% lmfao

[dreamy orchid]

in royal its like 3x stronger than they are on hard

also the multiplier for crits is like very slightly lower than the multiplier for weak on merciless

like genuinely .01x lower lmao

oh nevermind its .02x

weakness on merciless is 2.04x while crits are 2.01x

[hard vault]

Me when i purposefully spread misinformation /j

[iron pilot]

Weakness Amp W?

[hollow trail]

it selects, but no explanation why it was selected

it's too flimsy to consider it valid design

[dreamy orchid]

true

i'd probably make it a regular weakness just for visual recognition then, even if that technically makes damage different across difficulties

[hollow trail]

fuuka doesnt say shit in analysis

only says "i already scanned them"

when you select she says "you have something that will work"

that doesnt mean shit

and i think she says the exact same for weakness

like what the fuck does this mean in context

weak has a clear visual indicator

this is fully based on subtext a player would never know unless they dug into files or bruteforced every element

[dreamy orchid]

yeah i don't think vulnerability is conveyed well unless you just happen to notice the extra damage with a certain attack

[iron pilot]

I'm just that good fr

[hollow trail]

removing it entirely is better, because junpei's bash is STILL comparable to his agi damage

his magic is that bad

[dreamy orchid]

well yeah but the weakness gives more strategy for mc

whereas normally phys would be defacto better for the fight

[hollow trail]

no, mc's strategy will be "don't get wrecked by the summons" lol

[dreamy orchid]

i'd say just make it a normal weakness

[hollow trail]

you're forgetting this is in context of master quest where magic will be mandatory here anyway

[dreamy orchid]

true but still i kinda like the vulnerability existing in some form

[hollow trail]

you phys the main target and magic the summons, you are effectively using every skill in the kit

[dreamy orchid]

its up to you either way though

[hollow trail]

it's more balanced than giving the main target a magical vuln too

by definition

[dreamy orchid]

passing to junpei for bash crits gonna be the strat

[hollow trail]

what crits the chance is like 0.000000001%

[dreamy orchid]

i'll take those odds

i was passing to junpei when i did the fight first anyways cus his early game str stat is insane

cus of the +3 from link episode

[hollow trail]

i feel like this is the play anyway, you're using every single element this way

[dreamy orchid]

yeah it works well

what will the summons be using?

[hollow trail]

garu, zio, and agi

[dreamy orchid]

zio, garu and agi to hit weaknesses?

yea that'd be best

zio also btfo's the orpheus only people

so its a net positive

[hollow trail]

the first two will be zio/garu, and then the third summon will be the agi one

[iron pilot]

https://youtu.be/xOHGxZU8IEs?feature=shared

[hollow trail]

priestess spams the third one in later stages

[iron pilot]

Like this?

[dreamy orchid]

doors did we do the same strat

[iron pilot]

No

[hollow trail]

i just set yukari to heal support and whacked it over and over with mc/junpei phys until it died

occasional rakunda

[dreamy orchid]

i had mc as a rakunda and phys bot while junpei was also a phys bot

use magic when the summons come out and just repeatedly pass to junpeak for bash

[hollow trail]

oh i also made the third summon block ice

so only weak to elec

you WILL zio

or you WILL get agid

[dreamy orchid]

kouha/eiha useless for the fight

as god intended

[hollow trail]

there will be no damaging hamamudo in master quest

[iron pilot]

Well I did have an Omoikane there

[hollow trail]

i am gonna make them clones of Hama and Mudo

[dreamy orchid]

meovv is a damaging hama hater

[hollow trail]

like literally rename them to Hama and Mudo and make them copy stats from the real one

[dreamy orchid]

nah make them weaker clones of divine judgement it'd be way funnier

[iron pilot]

My strat went as such:
Jack Frost
Use up my Maragi gems
Pass Junpei for Bash
Yukari use garu on garu weak target
Pass Junpei for bash

Rinse and repeat

[bronze seal]

i just made the neutral fire weakness a normal weakness that's communicated to the player

[dreamy orchid]

if you got rid of kouha/eiha but didn't give koromaru and ken hama/mudo boost though then they'd be made a lot worse

especially amada

[hollow trail]

good they need to be shit again

dog too op

[dreamy orchid]

dog would still be op

eiha stuff is like the worst part of his kit

just remove debilitate and revolution and he drops like 3 spots on the tierlist

[bronze seal]

i was level 10 or so and just wasn't able to beat her on merciless within the time limit by buffing junpei with rebellion and going for knockdowns like in the original

[hollow trail]

how

like

[bronze seal]

then i realized she was immune to knockdown now, found the fire weakness, beat her first try

[hollow trail]

i cut it close

[dreamy orchid]

rebellion is pretty terrible

[hollow trail]

but you can spam whack it with bash

lmfao

[bronze seal]

i think i was level 9 or 10?

[hollow trail]

same

shes not that tanky

[dreamy orchid]

i think i was a bit overprepared tbh

i only did one tartarus visit but still i got yukari to level 11 so i had media

made the fight easy af

[iron pilot]

Rebellion sucks ass at this point

Lmao

[dreamy orchid]

rebellion is just mid, wait til revolution

[hollow trail]

damn misinfo wiki actually got the 200% fire right

[dreamy orchid]

megaten wiki have actually never lied, we were all just wrong

primal force has 2200 power.

[bronze seal]

hmm, maybe had bad personas. i definitely didn't have media. don't think i had jack frost.

[dreamy orchid]

i had jack frost but only used him for bufu

i was using valkyrie

[hollow trail]

i didn't have any aoe skills of any kind, nor jack frost

[dreamy orchid]

peak persona

[hollow trail]

i did fine

[dreamy orchid]

valkyrie is the carry

[hollow trail]

jio valk

[dreamy orchid]

just fuse rakunda onto her and slay

[bronze seal]

i guess i am just bad...

[iron pilot]

Valkyrie

[dreamy orchid]

valkyrie goated

[iron pilot]

I didn't have Media either

[dreamy orchid]

resists ice, has high str stat

[bronze seal]

yeah, valkryie, that who i was using

[dreamy orchid]

card like fucking idk, holy arrow onto her or some shit

technically the highest damage phys you have by that point

[hollow trail]

i used valkyrie because i refused to access any resources at all my entire playthrough, and that included the fusion chart which i didnt memorize

so i didnt try to make a jack frost i just went and used valk

and it was fine

[dreamy orchid]

jack frost only super good if you exploit the vulnerability

[bronze seal]

i blame junpei for this

[iron pilot]

I didn't use calcs either at that point

[dreamy orchid]

without it hes kinda mid cus low st

[iron pilot]

Only when I went

Wait Chernobog's better

[dreamy orchid]

siegfriedcels seething over chernobog chads

[bronze seal]

i wasn't attacking with protag, just buffing junpei and healing with yukari. going for those knockdowns like i did in the original.

little did i know

[iron pilot]

Ngl we just ignored the summons in the previous versions

[dreamy orchid]

i just used rakunda then wailed on her with all three characters

yeah in the original you kill priestess in like two or three turns lol

her hp is tiny

def one of the fights they improved

[bronze seal]

and then junpei had the nerve to act like he screwed up at the monorail when he did all the work

[iron pilot]

Lmfaoooo

[dreamy orchid]

they really made junpei wanting to be the leader more compelling this time considering he literally does everything better than the protag

[iron pilot]

It depends if you're level 10 or 11

[bronze seal]

he really fucked up at the love hotel, though. didn't give me a single crit to knock him down no matter how hard i tried. little did i know he had 70 luck and was immune to knockdown now too.

[iron pilot]

Who?

Hierophant?

[bronze seal]

junpei

no, the lovers

[iron pilot]

Wot

[hollow trail]

immunity

[iron pilot]

Immune to knockdown?

Bullshit

[bronze seal]

he wasn't in the original game

[iron pilot]

https://youtu.be/pE2LmXI3qtA?feature=shared

[hollow trail]

oh priestess is lv11

[iron pilot]

Yeah but I literally critted the fucker here

[hollow trail]

wiki misinfo!!!!!!!

[dreamy orchid]

no lovers isn't immune to knockdown

[bronze seal]

shit, that means junpei didn't get a single crit the entire fight

[dreamy orchid]

i crit the thing like 3 times lol

[iron pilot]

Skill issue

[dreamy orchid]

but it has a really inflated lu stat

[bronze seal]

junpei, what the hell

[iron pilot]

My Junpei's better than yours

[dreamy orchid]

junpei w

but yeah for that fight you can technically have getsu-ei with apt pupil and crit boost, along with revolution

literally 50% crit rate

[hollow trail]

why are the priestess summons nulling shock/freeze/dizzy

why does EVERY FUCKING ENEMY do this

its so bad

[iron pilot]

To make Midsuru bad

Duh

[dreamy orchid]

make everything in the game null dizzy to remove the mechanic entirely

[bronze seal]

damn, yeah, i didn't put it in my notes, but i apparently made lovers immune to knockdown without documenting it

[hollow trail]

lol

lmao even

[bronze seal]

hey, c'mon, that's not the most embarrassing mistake i've made

[hollow trail]

[iron pilot]

Trusting the wiki might be the worst one possible

[bronze seal]

i made hermit neutral(-15%) to light without realized that meant he's not light-block anymore and hama worked on him

oops

or was it weak(-15%), same thing

[hollow trail]

mfw hermit can actually be frozen

[iron pilot]

He can?

[hollow trail]

it says neutral

[iron pilot]

Midsuru + Ken combo will be the goat?

Another buff amp boy L?

[bronze seal]

nope, he's got null freeze as a passive

[hollow trail]

shit game

[iron pilot]

L

[bronze seal]

a lot of bosses have redundancy like that

[hollow trail]

im aware

[iron pilot]

I think they shat their pants when they gave Midsuru an 80% freeze skill

And then forgor that they put slash amp in 50s

Lmfao

[bronze seal]

man, ailments on bosses are fine. if you're that worried, give them high resist and insta-heal or whatever. they don't need 100% resist.

but i'm pretty sure ailments always work on downed enemies, so you can exploit that a little

[hollow trail]

persona either has too many mechanics or completely disables all of them as a bandaid fix there is literally no in between

[bronze seal]

absolutely

[hollow trail]

just play a better balanced game like soul hackers 2 instead

[bronze seal]

the smtv buff system would work great in persona. they're not permanent, but they can stack, but only twice.

4 turns, i think? you generally cast one, then wait until it's about to expire to refresh and stack it at the same time. unless you really need it asap.

[iron pilot]

3

It can turn to 6 with boon boost and boon boost ex

[bronze seal]

my mind counts the act of casting it as a turn

so it feels like 4 to my brain

i'd also be okay with replacing or at least modifying all-out attacks. they worked well for p3's ai tactics system, but it's kind of mindless now.

especially with shift

doesn't need press turn, but something else, anyway

[hollow trail]

What if we modded P3R to remove one more and instead when a weakness was hit it would add a point, let's call it a "Stack", and with Passives and character traits certain moves could award bonus "Stacks" and after everyone had taken their turn, then an All-Out Attack sequence would play, with the power dependent on the amount of Stacks you had accumulated, and then certain perks and skills could extend this AoA with bonus effects

We could call it something like, a "Sabbath" system, sounds fitting for Megaten

I think this would be good

[bronze seal]

that's a crazy idea

but, yeah, there's a lot of great alternatives to press turn or all-out attacks and one mores. strange journey's demon co-op was neat, although it wouldn't work for persona, obviously.

shekinah kept changing its alignment weakness and made you need a lineup of law, neutral, and chaos demons to swap in. really tough test of your fusion skills.

[hollow trail]

ok so priestess summon is working pretty nicely

one thing i think i will change is i will randomize which one spawns

because from the set order you can kinda just

spam twice

but if two spawned with same affinity, would be tougher

will also make them target downed for funnies

[iron pilot]

That's good, I just memorized the order and have the personas for it on hand already somehow lol

[hollow trail]

i still want shift to be useful here, but basically the way this is done you're not gonna shift

because you're using the one more to double-tap the summons so they don't down you

(they resist every element that they aren't weak to now)

[iron pilot]

The only AoE option available are uh

Gems

[dreamy orchid]

highkey bring back the p3 buff/debuff system where they're weaker and don't get refreshed

keeping enemies permadebuffed and the party perma buffed is really easy and it kinda sucks

[hollow trail]

no :)

[dreamy orchid]

ig enemies just need more ways to counter it, especially auto-buffs

[hollow trail]

buffs "missing" is unironically shit

if anything, just reset timer instead of stack

[dreamy orchid]

resetting would at least be better

the stacking is silly af tho

[iron pilot]

L

Jack Frost with Agi

[celest kindle]

Pyro Frost if real

On the lookout for Ice Jack

[hollow trail]

New version, adds Arcana Priestess

• No longer secretly weak to fire
• Summons now use Zio, Agi and Garu respectively instead of normal attacks and kouha
• Summons are now randomized (but the Agi one might be a little too common, needs testing)
• Summons now resist every element except the one they are weak to
• Skeptical Tiara no longer weak to Ice, only Elec
• Despairing/Loathsome no longer weak to phys, only Fire and Wind respectively

[iron pilot]

I'll test it

[iron pilot]

In a bit

[hollow trail]

oki

[iron pilot]

Just finished first block

Lol

Game gave me a lot of odd morsels for some reason

[ashen pulsar]

sh2 does this

[iron pilot]

I'm not gonna hold back on this one

Managed to get a fusion path for a Valkyrie with tarunda and tarukaja

[hollow trail]

pog

[iron pilot]

Ok gonna try now

Did you buff her attack btw

Cause there's a funny I can do

[hollow trail]

i didn't

[iron pilot]

https://youtu.be/x__T7cP2w7w

weird takoyaki W

Overall it did keep the essentials of the fight apart from the lack of vulnerability

Pretty decent

400 yen 100 HP heal tho

[hollow trail]

good run!

[iron pilot]

More than likely though people will just use their odd morsels

[hollow trail]

i'm stumped with how to make empress/emperor any better, because the fight really is just a tutorial for fuuka

its very scripted

[iron pilot]

Dumbest Perusona boss

[hollow trail]

i dont wanna skip it but at the same time all i can really do is just make it spam the affinity change more times, or change the affinities, or make it damage you more

and thats

boring

lol

[iron pilot]

If the affinities they change to is somewhat random, it would be ok

But they aren't tanky enough and pretty sure that's not possibke

[hollow trail]

i can make it change affinity to the affinities of any enemy that exists in the game

so

technically """random""" is possible

[dreamy orchid]

what if they just change to a repel all gold hand like a boss

[hollow trail]

i'm probably skipping empress/emperor for now

its just fundamentally not something that can be made much better

[iron pilot]

Drain all Emperor

[hollow trail]

New version, rebalances all Phys and Magic skills

This might become temporary/separate from MQ as the changes are significant

No skill description updates so you'll have to cope with this HTML file that includes the skill sheet

[celest kindle]

An experimental update then

Sounds pretty interesting

It's based on FES right

[hollow trail]

TLDR

Phys is nerfed across the board, without boosts it is always at a level that is inferior to magic, but with them it still surpasses it I think, needs to be put into practice

Almighty is also semi-nerfed (costs made lower, Morning Star buffed) as it ignores all mechanics such as weaknesses etc (It's probably garbage but it needs to be put into practice)

Heavy and Severe magic are reverted/buffed to FES stats and costs, making it way more viable in tandem with the phys nerfs

[iron pilot]

I'll probably not download that one yet

Hmmmm

It sounds funny tho

[hard vault]

Guh

Tbh I've already beat the game twice so like

Definitely trying it out it'll make the 3rd playthrough more interesting

[warm dew]

def downloading

[warm dew]

Is there currently any way to rebalance the weapons as well (without editing each one's values individually), or is that already done within this mod?

[hollow trail]

this mod made takaya so fucking hard lmfao

[dreamy orchid]

blueprint editing needs to be sussed out first before we can make sweeping changes to the damage formula

[hollow trail]

indirect akihiko buff because dog didnt have debilitate

[dreamy orchid]

rn the only bandaid solution is to buff all stats, but that ends up effecting aoa and tactics ai

[dreamy orchid]

garbage w?

[hollow trail]

he was the mvp

[dreamy orchid]

world's first trashihiko w?

[hollow trail]

lol

[celest kindle]

Is his revolver packing now

[hollow trail]

not the first

[dreamy orchid]

master quest chidori the only time i've unironically used aki

[hollow trail]

master quest unironically making aki peak

junpei was not pulling his weight at all here with phys nerfs

[dreamy orchid]

(he still sucks hes just usable in niche situations)

[hollow trail]

aki/aigis/ken was the party i managed to win with

[dreamy orchid]

i'd try it myself but i still haven't even done that boss in the vanilla game yet

😭

[hollow trail]

L

[dreamy orchid]

ive been too tapped out

i'll try motivate myself to continue it eventually

[hollow trail]

unironically

sukukaja W in this fight

side effect of luck though, buff boost kept kicking in because takaya has ice on top of the list

so aki was killing his one more chains

[dreamy orchid]

buff amp sukukaja makes you unhittable

[hollow trail]

unironically

it did

this one time

[dreamy orchid]

turns evade ice into repel ice

[neat reef]

Yo MeovvCat I love your work

[ashen pulsar]

i love it more

[neat reef]

Oh yeah?

[hollow trail]

Thank you

[neat reef]

Personal favorite gotta be those AI Party Tactics fixes

[hollow trail]

glad you like that

[iron pilot]

Btw is it possible for make Mitsuru's theurgia get freeze on null freeze enemies somehow

[ashen pulsar]

[hollow trail]

uhhh

null freeze? not sure, null ice it should, no?

also

i may have to nerf basically every boss I've done so far

because i buffed dynes

chidori especially might be fucking crazy

haven't checked

alternatively stop giving them all magic mastery LOOOOL

they won't need it anymore

[dreamy orchid]

nah chidori is fine

if anything you nerfed her cus you made maeigaon weaker

[ashen pulsar]

A

[hollow trail]

I mean, she never used that, she was already nearing oneshot with agidyne so 100+ power should be bad no?

[dreamy orchid]

but yeah you can tank maeigaon before so i don;t think buffed maragidyne is an issue

nah its def survivable

[hollow trail]

reaper isn't survivable anymore i think

at least it's oneshotting me now when it usually wouldn't

[dreamy orchid]

amada weakness is slightly less vulnerable due to eighaonn nerf

(he will still die in one hit)

[hollow trail]

yeah i was gonna say

amada is both the squishiest party member and has a weakness to the strongest element

[dreamy orchid]

the neutral damage will be a lot more of an issue

[hollow trail]

what kinda ass design is that

[dreamy orchid]

im pretty sure hes technically tankier than yukari

but yeah dark weakness kinda cucks him cus its weakness to both instakills and eighaonn

[hollow trail]

really easy to null thankfully

still, having to null an element cucks your damage potential

also I'm sorry to let you know, but changing passives in equipment is gonna suck!

tried it yesterday

[dreamy orchid]

well ken was never a damage dealer

[ashen pulsar]

KENNETH

[dreamy orchid]

you technically nerfed his damage in your patch

so he is basically heal bot now

which works especially given the theurgia

but also like

ken can access both light boosters without accessory anyways

[hollow trail]

to be fair

[dreamy orchid]

Gae Bolg for Boost and Amp in his learnset

[hollow trail]

his phys potential isn't capped at 3% anymore

[ashen pulsar]

3% OF WHAT

[dreamy orchid]

didn't you nerf his phys too

[hollow trail]

I raised all pierce critrates

[dreamy orchid]

im pretty sure you nerfed his damage across the board besides jiodhain

[ashen pulsar]

PENETRATION AMPERAGE?

[dreamy orchid]

yeah but 10% crit ain't saving lil bro lmao

[hollow trail]

yuki are you okay

[dreamy orchid]

shes just a little drunk but shes good dw

i got her in vc

[ashen pulsar]

YEAH WHY

[hollow trail]

has anyone at all tested the skill rebalance yet

it feels kinda good to me so far?? but I've also been rocking Aki/Mitsuru/Yukari so LOL

[dreamy orchid]

but yeah just as a brief overview of your patch, Yukari/Mitsuru are buffed, Ken/Aki/Koro are both buffed and nerfed in different aspects and Junpei/Aigis/Shinjiro are giga nerfed

[hard vault]

I've touched it briefly since installing, but I'm also like

Really early in ng+

[dreamy orchid]

Aki is much more of a hybrid attacker in your patch which is nice

Ken I think gets the short end of the stick though

[hollow trail]

Aki's been like

[dreamy orchid]

While Koro is chilling cus of level 56 maragidyne

[hollow trail]

Zio and Strike equally good, but peak equipment aki is 100% strike

[ashen pulsar]

STRIKING AMP

[dreamy orchid]

well strike will outdamage even before crit

[iron pilot]

Akihiko has less En

[dreamy orchid]

but dynes being better has more versatility

[iron pilot]

I'm not joking fr

[dreamy orchid]

Aki has higher hp than Amada though

But yeah Amada has higher en than most of the cast

[iron pilot]

It's still hilarious

Shush

[hollow trail]

Actually, in my tests God Hand strike outdamaged Ziodyne by like 20, and that was without Strike Amp

something's off

[dreamy orchid]

Amada tanks better than Mitsuru/Yukari/Akihiko

hilarious

[hard vault]

From the brief overview i read it definitely feels like Aki is maybe more viable than Junpei because of the changes

[iron pilot]

He has innate elec boost and amp so he technically runs both

[iron pilot]

Which is good!!!

He's hot garbage in vanilla

[dreamy orchid]

well yeah because its sqrt 500 vs sqrt 320

[hard vault]

Yeah and Junpei is insane as the crit king

[dreamy orchid]

you made god hand comparable to severe magic so imo its completely fair for it to outdamage ziodyne, which is a heavy tier skill

[ashen pulsar]

Q23 fe

[dreamy orchid]

Aki was always more phys based than magic based really

[hollow trail]

I was trying to make a spreadsheet for every party member, where you'd have

• Every possible skill natively
• Every possible skill in weapon
• Every possible skill in armor
• Every possible skill in footwear
• Every possible skill in accessory

this way you could use it for a build planner for every party member by sorting equipment into skillslots basically

8+1+1+1+1

i got lazy after building aki which is what i wanted

[iron pilot]

Debuff:

[ashen pulsar]

elaborate?

[iron pilot]

I get the idea

Although you need accurate data on when equips appear

[hollow trail]

A build planner for P3R where each character has 12 slots (8+1+1+1+1) and the selections are restricted to what they actually can wear and get

[ashen pulsar]

can u espain it to me rmtrrow

i wanna engage with te conmbo

but like haha

[hollow trail]

ok

[ashen pulsar]

oh meow meow

i did make a think

[hollow trail]

yes, could restrict choices based on date/tartarus floor and level

[iron pilot]

You probably need to label when equips are available

[hollow trail]

yes

[iron pilot]

Buff Amp Boy gets Strike Boost in the first Monad Door trust

[ashen pulsar]

sukukaja boy

[hollow trail]

my dream would be making every comp possible either viable at all times or required for different battles

[iron pilot]

Unironically started to run an Ag equip on this playthrough because my auto buff mf doesn't have Ag to make me go first

Lmfao

[ashen pulsar]

i beievbe in yo meow emow

[hollow trail]

and this is why i dont want aki to have all debuffs, it would monopolize

[iron pilot]

Well it'd be better if his Tarunda's relevant

[hollow trail]

if buffs stacked in 2 stages you'd never have that problem because protag + aki or koro + aki is better than just aki/protag/koro

[iron pilot]

I dunno about that

I need to have an incentive to actual need the attack decrease

Because I can say the same thing right now, in case the enemy is a bit tankier than usual, I can stack duration

But like

I don't

[ashen pulsar]

you use magic

[dreamy orchid]

lmao i wrote up all the boosters i know are obtainable for each character but i think the server flagged it as spam so i can't post

[ashen pulsar]

:trollled\

[hollow trail]

screenshot it and post the screenshot

[ashen pulsar]

thats illegal

[dreamy orchid]

adachi true

[iron pilot]

I use both

Anyways lmfao I love lying

[hollow trail]

actually fucking braindead

[iron pilot]

Theurgia scale off of St and Ma but his theurgia is literally more applicable

[hollow trail]

jfc i see why the bot nuked it you wrote this like a copypasta

list pls

[dreamy orchid]

"his strength stat isn't that high" literally reaches 93

[dreamy orchid]

sorry i wrote it like an insane person

[iron pilot]

Akihiko has lower St the entire time idk what he cooking there

[ashen pulsar]

me!

[iron pilot]

What's vacuum slash crit rate btw

[dreamy orchid]

5%

[hollow trail]

in MQ its 5%

[iron pilot]

So 15%

Oh I was talking vanilla

[hollow trail]

good fucking question

i just know i lowered it

This is a HTML page with all skills in MQ

looks like Aqiu's skill list

[iron pilot]

The calc doesn't say crit rate

Odd

[hollow trail]

it does in some skills

LOL

he got lazy

[ashen pulsar]

nah its auto

its like only shows above 20% or smth

cockuum slash is 5%

[hollow trail]

oh its actually 5 ok

[iron pilot]

So it's 5% either way?

Zamn

[hollow trail]

i remember making aoe's half of all single target crit rates

of equivalent lv

[dreamy orchid]

idk if Koro or Aegis have any useful armour effects but this should be accurate

[ashen pulsar]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11Mlfc_Oi3JU-16jtoNygCntJyKGVl-QWxB_Kttag9yc/edit?usp=sharing

[hollow trail]

the yuki p3n table

[ashen pulsar]

i made it day 1

[dreamy orchid]

Oh wait i meant to write Shift Amp for Junpei

[ashen pulsar]

meow meow are u proud o m

[iron pilot]

15% crit rate AoE

For very early

[hollow trail]

yee

[iron pilot]

Yeah, he sucks bro I'm not lying frfr

Akihiko without an AoE phys and crit boosts is better because Buff Amp

Everyone knows this

[dreamy orchid]

1.98x bro... its peak...

[iron pilot]

Let's ignore Aigis' theurgia charge rate being very high and it being extremely easy to achieve

Having buffs up at all times is practical

[dreamy orchid]

its so funny

aki can't even buff himself

he's reliant on it to do anything yet needs others to do it for him

i imagine its very crippling early game

[iron pilot]

You can give him auto tarukabellion

Before you get auto matarukaja

[dreamy orchid]

when is that gotten

[iron pilot]

Mayoido 3rd month iirc?

[dreamy orchid]

ah

[iron pilot]

However

Junpei and Shinjiro

[iron pilot]

Honestly that's pretty good storytelling

Although lmfao

[dreamy orchid]

if atlus were based

[iron pilot]

Technically buff amp kicks in with just sukukaja

But lol

Lmao even

[dreamy orchid]

he would've started with buff amp and then after second awakening it'd turn into debuff amp

[hollow trail]

unironically

[dreamy orchid]

i wish it were true

[iron pilot]

I think it'd be cool if the second characteristic is locked behind ults

[dreamy orchid]

i think theurgia charge condition and characteristic boost could've changed with 2nd awakening

like obvious example is aki becoming more debuff focused but they could've also had ken become more healing focused with kala-nemi since nemesis' original skill set was always more offense focused

[iron pilot]

The second characteristic will retain the original's effect tho

I think

[hollow trail]

pretty sure not

[iron pilot]

Because with that, it can show that they're still true to themselves

No no, I mean like

[dreamy orchid]

theoretically he means

[iron pilot]

Looking at it in a story standpoint, that should be the case

[dreamy orchid]

yea

[iron pilot]

And it'll accommodate people that likes the original characteristic more

[dreamy orchid]

have aki get boosted by buffs but also his debuffs are stronger

[iron pilot]

Junpei, for example, could probably get an innate regen 4 for the second one

But will retain the crit amp

[dreamy orchid]

that would be raw af

give aigis a boost to her buffs for her 2nd one since athena is more support-oriented and shows her becoming more human

[iron pilot]

I would remove his regen 3 for this but I will replace it with crit rate boost or shift amp

[dreamy orchid]

i don't think he needs any more boosts in his skill set lmao

[iron pilot]

True but it'd be funny

What would he have then

Endure?

Actually, endure sounds kinda raw

[dreamy orchid]

give him baisudi as an epic re patra reference bro

give amada enduring soul

[iron pilot]

You can interpret the endure as "I have to live for both of us"

[dreamy orchid]

also like uh

give mitsuru a fucking damage boosting characteristic pls

shes so useless without one

[iron pilot]

What kind

[hollow trail]

nah

[iron pilot]

Sticking it to ailments suck

Because everyone and their mother's immune!!!

[dreamy orchid]

give her almighty amp for her 2nd theurgia

[hollow trail]

she can already get magic ability for that

[dreamy orchid]

funnier idea: ailment pierce

[dreamy orchid]

doesn't boost almighty skills

[iron pilot]

Bro it doesn't work with almighty

[hollow trail]

why does she even have it then

[iron pilot]

Actually.

That'd be goated with the sauce

[dreamy orchid]

diamond dust

[iron pilot]

Freeze strats goated

[hollow trail]

no

thats not a valid answer

[dreamy orchid]

she needs magic ability to catch up to buff amp, but like unironically

[hollow trail]

her magic ability saber is literally HIGHER TIER, MORE EXPENSIVE, than the Ice Amp one

[dreamy orchid]

yeah but you can stack magic ability with ice amp accessory

[hollow trail]

forgot that existed

[dreamy orchid]

and shes still worse at magic than akihiko with that somehow

[hollow trail]

i need

the fucking spreadsheet

[hollow trail]

me when i lie?

[dreamy orchid]

nah when counting theurgia she is

without theurgia shes better tho