P3R Memento Mori Rebalance Mod

[undone elm]

Tarunda/Rakukaja being stronger than Tarukaja/Rakunda is funny but i imagine it has actual practical application when enemies deal much more damage

[inland juniper]

Me, in a Orpheus only run who has Tarunda “Sorry Akihiko, you’re benched unless enemy is weak to electrics”

[undone elm]

just bring ken he is better

[storm current]

The priestess boss hits both units and you don't have the time to use 2 out of the 2 turns to heal, and there's not many group heal items in the early game

Saying both because you basically need to go into her with jack frost or unicorn

[storm current]

-undas are always better because kajas go away when a unit dies, debuffs always better since if someone dies and you bring them back the stat changes are still there

[undone elm]

No that's not what I mean

I mean that Tarunda and Rakukaja genuinely give a bigger boost than Tarukaja does

If you have Tarukaja and attack an enemy with Rakukaja active, then you will deal less damage than if none of you had buffs

[late raptor]

i find that kinda good actually

i don't think buffs should be 1:1 nullification

it's bad enough that 100% uptime is the optimal strategy at all times

[inland juniper]

I wonder, what’s the proper calculation with “lower foe’s attack by 40%” and “raises party’s defense by 40%”

How much damage would I take with the x3.00 damage value difficulty?

[undone elm]

1.66x

because its damage taken multiplied by 0.6x

1 divided by 0.6 is 1.66666666667

[inland juniper]

That’s the amount of damage I’ll take if I have defense up and foe attack down?

[undone elm]

no

thats the multiplier for rakukaja

tarukaja is 1.4 attack, rakukaja multiplies damage taken by 0.6x (aka 1.66x defense), accuracy up is 1.3x hit rate for your own attacks and evasion up is 0.7x hit rate for attacks targeting self (aka 1.42x evasion)

[inland juniper]

Making a bug report: Fuuka’s Oracle ability with her upgraded Persona can miss her allies, it’s not a guarantee effect hit

I saw all my allies dodge the buff, lol

[random basin]

that's intentional. one of the effects is a 50% chance to charge/concentrate allies at the cost of lowering their hp to 1. i'm a little unsure and might rework it, but it's supposed to be an adaptation of oracle misfiring.

i suppose it's not clear there's a reason they might want to dodge it if you didn't see the effect

now that i think about it, 50% hit ratio isn't the same as a 50% chance. i should raise that.

i still need to fix one of fuuka's buffs still saying "atk/def/agl up", but it seems to incorrectly not use the effect message made for it and just use heat riser's. this is definitely supposed to be for fuuka's heat riser, but it seems unused.

[msg jyokyohelp_TRG_ORACL2_HE]

[coral rivet]

Bruh. I just got Juno and I hear this............

💀

Unrelated Question since I can't find an answer. Can we go to the Antique Shop on the Final Day like how you could in P4?

Been looking for this answer everywhere

@random basin Side Question. Noticed Mitsuru can now learn Magic Ability. Isn't it redundant with the fact that her ultimate weapon also has this as a passive or do weapons now stack with Persona passive in the mod now?

[random basin]

i assume so? i haven't changed anything.

[coral rivet]

Asking cause I'm pretty sure this was a P4 and up thing and we coudn't do it in P3

[random basin]

and, yeah, it's not needed if you have her ultimate weapon, but it frees you to use other weapons and still have magic ability if you want. there's not much reason to do that now, but there should be when i rebalance more weapons to be more equal.

[undone elm]

I think the issue is that she doesn't exactly have any other decent weapon options besides Ice Amp, which is already available on accessory

[coral rivet]

Actually let me rephrase it. Can we go to the antique shop AFTER we go to Tartarus on the Final Day

[random basin]

the mod has a fair amount of "redundancy" in skill options, but i don't think that's necessarily bad

oh, no, you can't

[coral rivet]

https://tenor.com/view/qingque-qq-cry-gif-7958377186818597304

Guess I'll have to get it next run

[random basin]

the +25 to her total stats is a bit of a factor there, too

i get the hardest-to-get weapons should be overall the strongest, but maybe not vastly superior to every other option in every way

[coral rivet]

Guess that's fair, cause pretty sure I won't be able to get the ultimate without grinding till the end times in tartarus for it

That or if I want to one shot the bosses at the end. But that's boring, so no.

[undone elm]

with incenses out of the picture i'm inclined to agree

i think some ult weapons are kind of bad though

like Apt Pupil for Junpei seems goated but its never worth missing out on either Slash or Fire boost depending on what you're building him for

Akihiko's Evil Gloves are horrible too

[random basin]

honestly, i've given junpei a lot of fire and magic options since he barely had any before, although it's still just intended to supplement his phys. i actually wonder how far you could take it if you tried to boost his magic as much as possible. blaze of life could do some real damage.

the cursed junpei magic build. has science gone too far?

[undone elm]

Theurgia scales off Str and Ma

Blaze of Life already outdamages all other magic theurgia even at his base stats (he has a really high combined str/ma due to getting 93 str innate lol)

You need to stack fire boost + amp to outdamage Akihiko's Electric Onslaught considering Aki gets his boosters innate, but with them Junpei does by far the most damage for magic

[inland juniper]

Ah, I see. It’s just that I used Fuuka Theurgy 3 times and probably got unlucky where out of the 3 times, it was that effect and it landed only once on 1 ally.

[inland juniper]

I think I know why Shinjiro’s damage is so intense when using his theurgy gauge

I think the critical damage is bugged or reverted back to vanilla or ignoring something. I think something changed with the critical damage with the theurgy gauge update you did. Even though Crit’s are harder to land with the mod, they are doing a lot of damage compared to before.

[inland juniper]

I’m almost certain the crit damage got changed

I didn’t record it but Akihiko just did 600+ damage for a crit when he usually does 120 damage for a physical (non-crit)

[random basin]

i have a bad feeling i let a temporary experiment test build change make its way into the public build

ah, yes, crit damage is x5.00 in the public build. why has this gone a month with no one noticing it???

what was i even testing with that again...?

i think i was trying to figure out how the base crit damage and difficulty modifier to crit damage interact

[undone elm]

isn't it just multiplicative?

like multiplying off the baseline 1.5x multiplier

[random basin]

it's probably, like, damage x 1.25 x 1.25. i don't remember. let me test it again.

i remember not feeling like the numbers i got were satisfactory

[undone elm]

i know the actual crit multiplier is in btlcalc, and it says 1.5 there

[random basin]

oh yeah, i was also trying to test interactions with the weak hit multiplier. which i'm pretty sure is x1.25, but it's apparently not a value in btlcalc.

[undone elm]

yea weakness is 1.25x

idk if you can change it outside of the difficulty parametre though

[random basin]

anyway, i'll update today in a little since 1.5.0 is more or less ready. i should test it a bit more for mistakes, but there can't be anything worse than x5.0 crit damage, so even if there are, updating now is still an improvement

it must be in the btlcalc formulas themselves. i should check how much progress has been made decompiling it now. there's a few things in there i need to change.

[inland juniper]

I’ve been busy with work , I barely had the time to play it so when I make my report findings, it’s usually in a batch in one day with intervals of weeks instead of everyday, lol.

[random basin]

ah, doesn't seem like restoring trafuri as a skill is going to work. if it's in your skill list at all during a boss, it constantly tells you you can't use it every frame. i guess it's fine as just an item, though.

[random basin]

still doing the finishing touches on the strega personas, by the way. it's a little more work than you'd expect. have to set their x, y, z coordinates in the fusion greeting, ui status screen, and ui persona list screen. stuff you wouldn't initially think too much about.

[coral rivet]

And here I thought it was because Shinjiro was just that badass also,|| because they take him from us soon after..............||

[coral rivet]

@random basin Nothing too important just adding that the readme section for Koro is different from what it states in game. Been reading the readme too much that I used it without thinking to get the aoe buff.

[random basin]

yeah, i noticed, will be fixed when i update

i did nerf his power howling to not include repel shields, though

i added them for defense, but the repel part could make it do more damage than his actual offensive theurgy

[coral rivet]

Uh...................he still has the repel shields thou?

Or did you mean he had a teamwide repel before?

[random basin]

in the update, i mean

[coral rivet]

Ah. What does it do in the update? Or what does Koro get if nothing for it?

[random basin]

it's all buffs to koro except for tetrakarn and makarakarn

the resists are better since it's supposed to be for his survivability

[coral rivet]

my poor doggo.................

ah well

[random basin]

hey, i'll throw in tetraja

will help him stay alive

[coral rivet]

Ngl was surprised he had teamwide Power/Mind Charge before. And after checking the only real reliable source of it in any form is just Mitsuru with Mind Charge and Akihiko with Blood Charge.

[random basin]

oh yeah, and i was going to add fire wall for the big brain use of using it when he gets fire break'd

[coral rivet]

Is that how that works? It's still active even after a fire break?

[random basin]

it cancels the fire break, i think

it could be cancelled again by another

i think?

i should test this

[inland juniper]

I think for this mod, the Attack down enemy debuff/defense up buff allies should be nerfed. When stacked together, even on Memento Mori difficulty, the damage values feel similar to vanilla Normal/Hard mode.

I’ve played with the mod for a while and I think the current meta is the debuff enemy attack/increase ally defense. It becomes spammy and that’s the way to survive, especially with the 4 turn duration buff.

There is a lot of ways to spam it, Aigis Defense AOE adding, Akihiko/Player Attack down enemy spam. Item AOE spams for it as well. I think either the effect should be toned down or the turn duration should be nerfed.

[random basin]

i absolutely agree, fes' balance of buffs being 25% is much more balanced than reload's 40%. it really turns things into either bosses being impossible without buffs or easy with buffs, and it's hard to have much counterplay with them.

i am definitely planning to look into btlcalc.uasset and try to change this

[undone elm]

its also not 40% lol

its actually higher for several of them due to how the math works

[random basin]

well, yeah, but i assume that was the same in fes. lowering it to 25% seems right to me.

[undone elm]

yeah if they were all 25% it'd be much nicer

[random basin]

i mean, let's say it were higher and buffs were, i dunno, 60%, it would be impossible to die if you had buffs up and impossible to survive without buffs, and nothing else would matter in battle. it's not that extreme, but you can see how raising buffs can have crazy effects.

[undone elm]

rakukaja already is higher than 60%

[random basin]

updated

1.5.0

Strega's Personas are obtainable via Special Fusion. Incenses are no longer sold by the antique store, and the Hanged Man card gives you weaker ones. Lots of minor skill and Persona tweaks, giving them back some skills from FES, including restoring Posumudi, Charmdi, and Enradi instead of combining them into Patra and Baisudi. Trafuri is also back (scratch that, that's a lie, i had to scrap it), and Personas that had weapon master skills in FES have phys boosts now. Ultimate weapons are nerfed (but still overall great weapons). I noticed you can equip empty unused equipment ID's with no issues, so instead of replacing existing weapons, I've currently got two brand new weapons added to the police station.

oh yeah, and most of the persona level up animations are changed since reload changed almost all of them to their physical attack animation, resulting in stuff like orpheus awkwardly attacking the camera with his harp now instead of playing it

just little fes restoration things

couldn't quite place what felt off about the personas in the status screen until i saw fortuna level up and not spin her wheel like i was expecting

[inland juniper]

Did you replace any skills for teammates in the update? Haven’t downloaded it yet since I’m still at work

[random basin]

just a few endgame ones

[coral rivet]

Goodbye Me Patra, and Mabaisudi (The reason I bring Junpei to Poison Bosses), I will miss you!

[random basin]

yeah, i wasn't sure about that. i guess i could restore baisudi's poison cure.

it wasn't in fes, so it can do whatever

[undone elm]

should probably just keep its effect the same tbh

since its the only real way to cure freeze/shock

[coral rivet]

Please and thank you again! 🙏

Still skimming through the readme to find what's new rn

I like some of the weapons tweaks to weapons which did nothing and even some of the other ones

For MC one weapon does something with Stats

[random basin]

yeah, i'll do more of them later

[coral rivet]

So I feel more inclinced to use them

[random basin]

i also outright restored one of the lategame axes cut in reload since nobody can equip them

not useful without the shinji mod, though

[coral rivet]

Btw in the tartarus rn but the "no weapon" to equip can only buy in the police station. Does it cost money?

[random basin]

the mod aigis fist and shinji axe? yeah, right now, the police station is the only place to get them.

[coral rivet]

Think I read that wrong. Thought that a "blank slate" weapon (One which kinda asks like Fuuka's no Weapon section) was added for everyone but it can only be found in the Police Station. Was asking if that, if that's what it is, would cost money

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jumpei has APT PUPIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://tenor.com/view/yes-mr-bison-gif-12000157

Late AF but still!

[undone elm]

Junpei seems gigabuffed which im not too sure why lol

[coral rivet]

I want reasons to give a shit about him!

[undone elm]

he was already the best character in vanilla tho

but now he seems like even further ahead of other characters

i don't really get why he needed more magic skills or fire boost innate, especially since he already has Laevateinn for that

[coral rivet]

Honestly cant speak for vanilla since I never even wanted to touch that hot mess

🤷‍♂️

[undone elm]

you've only played modded p3r?

[coral rivet]

Yup! I absolutely hated the default reload. When I finally got to tartarus and did a few fights, the enemies felt as the weren't even a threat and I was in the velvet room every other minute because of the crazy amount of exp gain, it honestly felt like Royal all over again and not like the P3 I knew which kicked my face in and forced me to learn how to play this game where death was around the corner for one fuck up. Default Reload was a Joke. I hated the experience so much I wanted to refund it but because how long it actually takes to get to Tartarus and I'm a slow reader I was way over the 2hr mark and couldn't. That's why I could care, very much less about the meta for a game that doesn't feel the same. No offense dude I mean that.

[undone elm]

well thats fair, but I would say Memento Mori is still a lot more similar to Reload than it is to FES

Which isn't a bad thing per se but its still mechanically different and the skill sets resemble Reload more

[coral rivet]

I'm not expecting it to be FES since the base is Reload but similar enough where I can enjoy it. I obviously love the Reload additions but I even back during the FES days I came to Persona for the challenge and the mod fixes what I feel is missing even at the beginning from Reload. And I still look forward to more.

Weapon and Crit nerfs hurts but that's realistic to expect

I still love this mod and can abide by the rules I have to work with

[undone elm]

well i think the challenge is good but there's also the matter of balance within said challenge. Like you still have to deal with how party members compete in amongst themselves and i'd argue Junpei is still too strong compared to others

[coral rivet]

I personally don't see it, hence why I mostly relegate him to some niche fights instead in the main part but tell me anyway

[undone elm]

Well like, he gains his powerful skills really early, has no real glaring issues in his kit especially since his magic has been buffed now despite it only really existing for coverage, his shift boost got buffed further to shift amp and he has the highest damaging theurgias in the party

also has the most consistent crit rate in the party which helps him a lot too

i would just say to change some things in his skill progression (gale slash was too early before, even more so now that its been buffed), and to remove the magic buffs since they are a bit incongruent with his design

[coral rivet]

Most be a late game thing cause man I've tried for the consistance crit rate and got nothing

[undone elm]

well in reload, you mostly want to be stacking additive buffs

revolution is the big one but things like auto-rebellion and apt pupil obviously help a lot too

[coral rivet]

I feel that @random basin would say that's more for build varity but fine

[undone elm]

to me it just doesn't really fit with how he's designed and i think him being more limited with his magic is more interesting and in line with FES. I think you could create room for build variety while not making him fill roles that he really shouldn't

I don't really like fire boost on his kit just because it invalidates Laevateinn entirely

[coral rivet]

Yeah that's true. Saw that and didn't take it up because I knew Laevateinn was a thing

As for the crit buffs thing

It's not like the dude has crit boost/amp so even then it only goes up to what?

hmmmmmmm

actually rev and rebellion is already 19%

And Apt pupil bring most thing to or near the cap in the mod anyway

hmmmmmmmmmmm

[undone elm]

+8% from Crit Amp, +15% from Revolution, +7% from Rebellion

Then if you stack ailments it'll be really crazy but i wouldn't consider those reliable

[coral rivet]

Mostly trying to check for jumpei since he ain't got crit amp

[undone elm]

he does

he has his own Crit Amp passive

different from crit rate amp

in memento mori, his passive is +8% crit rate and 1.15x crit damage

[coral rivet]

Ngl I forgot this existed

[undone elm]

yeah its really strong lol

the reason i worry about it is mainly just because, since phys boosters exist in reload and aren't exactly hard to obtain, phys competes with magic even before crit, but completely dwarfs magic if it does crit

and you can make crit rates pretty consistent even with just additive boosters, not factoring in innate crit rates or multiplicative boost from apt pupil

i don't think phys should be bad without boosters though because that would just feel ass to play around

[coral rivet]

Gawd it does! It feels like so much setup JUST to crit but on the other hand it's a knock down with spending (much) SP sooooooooooooooooo.............

Gone are days of Vorpal Blade easy crits

[undone elm]

well like, even before crit its good damage

and i think the crit rates are pretty consistent either way, especially for protagonist

if you're bringing koromaru then you'll be critting most of the time

[coral rivet]

As we are discussing this my ass looking to see if I got rev still on him 👀

if not Blue V store

[undone elm]

you want revolution and getsu-ei on him definitely

[coral rivet]

Stop tempting me! (I did think about it though)

I wanted my magic dog to be a magic dog

[undone elm]

getsu-ei is still effectively an endgame skill lol

crit rate is worse now but its still insane for damage

[undone elm]

well you still have enough slots for magic stuff

you just want rev and getsu-ei for phys stuff, then make the rest magic or support

[coral rivet]

Koro has such tempting passives with the mod now that I constantly look over his kit

[undone elm]

i mean looking at what he has

ig you'd want like

[coral rivet]

NOPE!

STOPPU!

I will figure this out!!!

I will accept my build whatever I make!

[undone elm]

tbh he has too many skills to make one consistently best build lol

building around dark seems like the best choice due to demonic decree though, but you'd probably want phys as a secondary

[coral rivet]

I'll go with my favourite and just enjoy that. But thanks anyway

[undone elm]

i was just looking at what i'd use but like he has so much that its actually a hard choice lol

[coral rivet]

Crit talk made me wanna re-evalute some builds

[undone elm]

i'd at the very least take revolution tho cus no other party member can cover that

[coral rivet]

@random basin Just asking so I can check but are the Strega Persona's only available on a new game plus?

[random basin]

you unlock hypnos and moros when you unlock thanatos, then medea when you unlock surt

so, after you fight strega, basically

[coral rivet]

Was wondering cause I JUST unlocked Thanatos and I don’t see them. Gimme a bit to post a screenshot since not at home.

I remember I checked immediately the first day velvet room available after the fight (11/5)

[random basin]

oh, hm. i tested it loading saves before and after death rank 10, but i didn't try actually getting rank 10.

[coral rivet]

Back. Also just incase this is more on myside. Do I need anything up on reloaded II to make sure it Hypnos and the rest appears?

@undone elm Sorry to bother you but can you check real quick if Hypnos, Medea and Moros show up in your file of the newest update? NVM!!!

[random basin]

nah, i messed something up. i think i can fix it real quick.

[coral rivet]

Ah

Ngl I was pretty nervous there it was on my side

[random basin]

alright, that's fixed

uploaded it

[inland juniper]

By the way, is the x5.00 critical damage fixed in this update?

[coral rivet]

Welp time to test it

[random basin]

i think they were partially set to yurlunger's unlock conditions and you needed thanatos and him

and, yeah, that's fixed. there's a lot of small fixes.

[coral rivet]

You didn't manage to sneek in back remove poison as well for Mabaisudi did you? 👀

[random basin]

oh, i guess i should have done that

[coral rivet]

OOF!

[inland juniper]

Ah, okay. I’m wondering, what’s Fuuka’s Theurgy rate on Tartarus compared to Full moon operations? Reason why I’m asking is because with the new Theurgy resetting on regular floor bosses/monad doors, I don’t get her Theurgy in the entire battle (or in some cases, at the very end after many turns)

[random basin]

it's unchanged from vanilla, and the full moon boss charge rate is about 200% in vanilla, 150% in the mod

i'll look into buffing her charge rate

something as simple as getting a bigger boost from scanning would probably do it

[inland juniper]

How much percentage does the bar fill per scan and per turn if you know the numbers?

[random basin]

really, i wouldn't mind if fuuka's didn't reset on entering bosses since it's situational, but that would be weird and inconsistent

i do know, actually https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f4Bhkg0gBqUSm4YR1Bba1JsQn6w6fPDrqBTaWlHla8A/edit#gid=1533814167

[coral rivet]

Yup it worked! I guess they can't be aligned by level like the regular personas or does this happen to the dlc's too (not like have them anyway)?

[random basin]

they need 1000 points to use theurgy, i think. does yukari really get theurgy after only healing four times, though? that seems wrong.

[inland juniper]

I think she does? I remember spamming heals in vanilla version, even when my allies were at 99% of health

[random basin]

the dlc does do that for satanael, but he's the highest level anyway, so he should be there. i think i can shift them around if i raise the id's for the other persona's positions.

[inland juniper]

Cause her SP cost reduction and theurgy gauge going up with heals, why shouldn’t it be spammed in the vanilla game? lol

[coral rivet]

Thanks for your work 👍

[coral rivet]

Speaking of Theurgy. Did you manage to get Paradise of Quietus to work?

[random basin]

not yet

and apparently i did restore poison cure to baisudi and forgot to document it

or change the skill description

[coral rivet]

A mission for another day and thank you

[coral rivet]

Figured out which Persona to make the 2nd Persona in the Theurgy? I'm guessing Thanatos but it could just be Moros

[random basin]

wait, patra isn't changed too, apparently. i'm pretty sure i remember doing that, though. oh, wait, i changed patra gems, but not the patra skill. they're different for some reason.

[coral rivet]

Btw was wondering. How does you NG+ work with the mod on Memento Mori? Same as "Merciless" where nothing caries over?

[random basin]

i had wanted to change ng+, but i'm not quite sure how it works

it's dt_datainheritancetable, i think

[coral rivet]

Was wondering if anything that it could only include the Persona key items since from what I can tell It's very likely to be overleveled before you even get the linked episode personas. So if anything starting a NG+ would mean being able to fuse them at the right level

[random basin]

yeah, reload's ng+ option is fucked

[coral rivet]

Ah

[random basin]

so i'd like to change it, but nobody knew how to properly edit data tables last i checked

[coral rivet]

Just hoping one day then

[random basin]

there's probably a way now

i'll go figure it out

actually, it probably was possible, but nobody knew how to fix the problem i was having with it. i just saw a certain someone dealing with the same issue and fixing it.

[coral rivet]

Sweet. So got any plans for the new game plus then?

Also Staring at the velvet room with Moros and Hypnos now and I think it's okay to level them at the end after Lucifer since I dunno

They feel more special that way

But then again again!

Having Hypnos right beside Thanatos is so tempting!

[coral rivet]

@random basin Okay so might have found a big problem. Whenever I try to fuse Thor, with any combination of fusion components, the game crashes.

[random basin]

well, that's a problem

[coral rivet]

Okay even more specifically, when I press to read what the moves do

I can look at the page and Persona bio

[random basin]

i have an idea what it might be

[coral rivet]

but as soon as I choose to read one of thor's moves it crashes

[coral rivet]

Oh thank gawd! That's fast!

[random basin]

yeah, i see, one byte is off when i was rearranging his moves

let me test it now

well, it's two bytes, technically, but whatever

yeah, simple mistake here. you have to manually shift all the skills over since they need to be in the right order they level up, so i moved his heart item down 3

but i forgot to change it to 1 for skill, so it crashes from either loading two heart items or an invalid heart item

i'll double check every persona i edited and then update

it might be easier to edit these in unreal, but, eh, whatever

[coral rivet]

Cool then. Guess I'll avoid making him and some of the personas from the recent update for now

💀

[random basin]

nah, i can patch it in like 15 minutes

probably should hotfix stuff quickly when i upload a mod that outright crashes the game, you know?

[coral rivet]

Yeah that's definitely a priority!

[random basin]

i'll add "cannot knockdown" in the hama and mudo descriptions, too. that wasn't actually intended, and i just rolled with it. i'm not sure why hama and mudo don't knock down, though.

must be something else that determines it specifically for those skills

done

[coral rivet]

Okay cool

[coral rivet]

Kept forgetting to ask about that

May as well ask something else then

For skills like Terror Eyes and Chaos Element that have 2 debuffs

Let's use Terror Eyes. If the enemy is immune to one, does that mean the other will trigger instead or will the enemy be immune to it entirely

?

[random basin]

that is a great question. i have no idea how the game determines that.

[coral rivet]

oh...........bouy

[random basin]

i can test it later

[random basin]

so, attack stones. i feel like they're overpowered and make personas and team composition matter less. it's pretty easy to exploit bosses weaknesses when every party member can knock them down and get multiple one-more's and all-out attacks. which is why it's rare for bosses to have them, limiting variety.

i feel like removing them completely might be overkill, however...

that said, i can turn the skills they used to take up into more interesting skills

either as items or skills

i remember in smtiv apocalypse, i had a muu shuwuu i just put attack knowhow and healing knowhow on her, and every other skill was a support skill. items can be fucking strong.

[coral rivet]

While I can understand this point if we had them in abundance, the fact is that we hardly have access to elemental gems. We can't buy them, we can't make them (aside from megido) and enemies don't even drop them.

Elemental Gems when we do get them from chests are hardly given a thought, despite how good they can be. They are mostly an emergency option if anything.

[coral rivet]

I could not honestly tell you about the rate of elemental item frequency in smt IV apoc compared to persoan 3 reload

🤷‍♂️

[inland juniper]

Personally, I don’t think it is an issue for me. Never really spammed them and I only used them when it was a dire situation of “fuck, I brought the wrong element teammate and it’s been 6 turns. I am starting to hate this enemy so I’ll knock it down.”

[late raptor]

they are very much not overpowered

they're good but also basically never show up again after arqa

[random basin]

might just be that i stocked up on them too much from not using them. regardless, i think i'll compromise by changing just the magatamas, so it's only 1/3rd less of them. and, really, half of it is because i want to repurpose their skill slots for new magic attacks.

and, yes, the game does recognize it if you change their affinities, so fuuka will not tell you an enemy is weak to an agi gem if it's not a fire skill anymore

i'm also considering adding ailment resistances to personas. it's a little awkward, but i can at least add what they are in the lore descriptions. i noticed, like, pixie is traditionally weak to confuse, and she happens to already learn resist confuse, almost begging me to make it valuable on her by covering a weakness...

[random basin]

oh, right, i remembered i don't need to resort to that to add new attack skills. there's those completely unused skills with animations and stuff.

[coral rivet]

So does this mean that we will be keeping elemental gems and also not have the really low rate that exists already made even less?

[random basin]

haha, maybe. it was just something i was considering and wondering what people thought.

i'll definitely add tetraja and fire/etc wall, but i wonder if walls should be accessible to the player at all. maybe only as rare items.

like...if i replaced fire magatamas with... no, maybe there's another way.

i can just add new items and add them to chests

[random basin]

damn, fire break does not remove fire wall. well, maybe it's for the best. i don't want bosses to turn into a big back-and-forth of setting up walls and breaking walls.

and i can make bosses have weaknesses and then use a wall to make you change your strategy instead of just spam one element

probably more fun than just breaking out your breaks

[coral rivet]

Noticed Auto-Mataru has a Space Between the hyphen and Mataru compared to the other 2

Small thing also. Got Sandalphon recently and noticed he's just a regular fusion now. Is it possible to make him a Special Fusion again like in Fes and remove him from the regular fusion pool?

[random basin]

how could i make a terrible mistake like this...

[coral rivet]

Does feel awkward to see.......

[random basin]

and, yes, i could. i'm not sure if i want to go mess up the fusion calculator, though.

[coral rivet]

Would it? He is the last Moon fusion but it's probably something that's over my head so it's for the best.

[random basin]

hmm, yeah, i guess it wouldn't really matter. any fusions resulting in sandalphon would make hell biker instead, and any fusions involving sandalphon would still be the same.

special fusions being normal fusions is one of those things that feels "off" when going from fes to reload, so i'll try it out

there's a few other ones like that

tetraja is fully functional and ready to add, by the way. it has the tetrakarn animation.

i want to see if i can get the element walls to use them too before i add them. pretty sure i know how if kismet would just recompile this right.

i'm editing the legitimately unused, nameless skills i haven't seen documented anywhere for that. you could pretty much make whatever skill you want with whatever animation with them this way. i think they're completely unused and won't cause problems to change, anyway.

[tiny talon]

Wait how exactly are you doing unique skill anims?

Is it like, piecing together other anims to make look as close to the animation as possible or are the effects actually getting ported over

[random basin]

oh, i meant animations already in the game

[tiny talon]

Ah!

[random basin]

it would take work beyond my level to port over effects

[random basin]

by the way, since door of hades is edited from from takaya's megidola in the scripted fight against not-abaddon, he dunks on him with it when he says he'll show you his power as a happy little accident

(i decided hypnos being his twin to be enough that he and thanatos share it)

[coral rivet]

@random basin Finally got a chance to use both Divine Judgement and Dark Verdict and they seem to have the same problem as Mudoon and Hamaon with dmg, they don't knockdown.

[random basin]

ah, shit, they don't? i need to figure out how to change that. it's not from skillnormaldata.

i guess in my testing, i always one-shotted enemies

i guess i could make it an intentional thing. maybe raise their damage higher with the cost they can't knockdown.

better in some situations, worse in others

no light or dark walls either, so i think it might actually be okay to might them stronger than ragnarok, etc.

[coral rivet]

@random basin So made multiple persona on the New Moon to test if the skill change would work and over half an hour now I haven't seen any trigger of the skill change mechanic on the New Moon. Honestly feels like I see it less on the New Moon to be honest.

[random basin]

hmm, this seems pretty straightforward that a higher number is more likely. maybe the formula doesn't work like that. i'll probably just remove it.

wait, it can't be that the accident and skill change rate are reversed?

maybe it uses both numbers in the formula. i'll leave it alone since i don't know how it works, then.

[coral rivet]

Oof. Welp there goes that mechanic then 💀

[undone elm]

what file is that btw?

[random basin]

UI/Tables/Combine/MoonAgeProbabilityDataAsset.uasset

[inland juniper]

Do you know if you going to nerf the buffs/debuffs with the ATK/DEF/AGL values to be similar to its FES values?

[random basin]

already got around to it. that's real high priority to make enemies not one-shot you without buffs but then destroy them when you have buffs.

now if only i could actually recompile the damn thing to use it

maybe i could try find it in a hex editor? hm...

they were the only 140 and 60 numbers in the entire folder, so

after theurgy, and maybe the lack of enemies with two turns, how extreme buffs are is one of the major balance issues in reload. really, if you were a more casual players and let enemies buff, it would be kind of brutal.

maybe every boss wouldn't need amp and boost skills on them for 75% more damage if... you couldn't lower their damage by 80%? to make them do regular damage?

but, i get it, the average player won't keep buffs up 24/7. the game's not intended to be balanced around that.

that's one of the reasons i've prioritized over things than bosses so far, since getting hit twice by a buffed enemy on a high difficulty would be way too much

[inland juniper]

I didn’t really found destroying enemies with the Attack up/Defense down (Except Shinji Bloody Charge stack but that’s a different story and it’s an optional character)

Currently with Memento Mori difficulty, it’s supposed to be a difficult time that takes a quite a few attempts to understand the enemy and plan accordingly.

It’s just that all the strategy was spam enemy attack down, there is no instance where you ever want it to go away. Made it extremely easy with the buffed 4 turn duration and it made it a compliment with the defense up. I could always try a new save with the buff/debuff changes and see if the damage values are good or not since I’m already on November with my current save.

[fickle marten]

For nyx affinities and weakness is it already implemented?

[random basin]

it is

nothing else, though

i don't want to take all the time to give nyx two turns and balance the fight around that before i lower buff effects, finalize endgame items, stuff like that. but i can do a little bit.

each nyx phase should be identical to its full moon boss

[random basin]

aw, shit, changing buff power really was as simple as ctrl+f 140 in btlcalc all along. was never any need to recompile it.

[undone elm]

wait fr?

[random basin]

yeah, it seems to work fine

[undone elm]

does it work for all buffs/debuffs or just tarukaja?

[random basin]

i'm testing the others right now

[random basin]

these numbers aren't adding up right, but i think i just need to isolate what each one does

[random basin]

right, i remember you said this

the numbers i'm getting is btlcalc 140 = x1.6 in-game and 125 = x1.4 in-game

yeah, it's x1.25 in other places. okay, that's a separate thing from this, i guess. i'll ignore it for now.

[undone elm]

@random basin these numbers might be helpful to isolate things

Its likely attack up and defense down are the 140 numbers, whereas the 125 is most likely elemental boosters lol

[random basin]

i specifically tried it without any passives

it seems like it's working how it should now, anyway

[undone elm]

for all buffs?

[random basin]

yeah, all four, and they seem like they cancel each other out right

[undone elm]

were the numbers the 140 and 125 you had assumed they were?

[random basin]

oh, i meant there was a value of 140 that made tarukaja do x1.6 damage and x1.4 when lowered to 125

changing all of them instead of just one seems like it changed that

i think i'll just update with this now instead of waiting until everything in 1.5.0 is ready. it could use the playtesting anyway.

[late raptor]

where is this being CTRL+F'd

[random basin]

i just said, in btlcalc

it seems to work fine

[late raptor]

Yes, I know, but the template doesn't parse the entire file on hex editor

or are you editing this elsewhere

[random basin]

i didn't use the template

[late raptor]

lol?

[random basin]

just hex edited it

[late raptor]

nuts

so you searched for 8C

[random basin]

there's not many results, so

and you can tell you're looking for 4 values from looking at btlcalc

[late raptor]

wonder why the template doesn't cover it

it's around F1B0h right

4 values, very close to each other

[random basin]

those are all together and easy to find

[late raptor]

funny lol

[random basin]

yeah, around there

[late raptor]

it's not 8 effects though?

[random basin]

it's like this. but hex.

just use the decompiled version as a reference

ctrl+f it for 140, 60, 130, 70, then find them in the compiled version

[undone elm]

thats so helpful jfc

Nrub'yodryth 🐐ed

[late raptor]

would definitely just be better for posterity to have this mapped out in BT lol

hacking at hex like this is scuffed

[fickle marten]

thanks, i like that the mod implemented weakness on boss, it's like the game teach you to do weakness+ailments to do big damage then just give most of it's boss that has none of those features lol

[random basin]

heh, with the new date-specific tartarus lobby dialogue they added, there's rare dialogue for mitsuru's awakening that can only be seen on one day before junpei's awakening happens

(noticed since i'm working on the shinji mod that's technically not part of this mod but basically is)

[cold prairie]

does this mod add skills from other persona games ?

[random basin]

yes, i should make a list of new skills. but, the line is kind of blurry since they're all technically just edited existing skills.

Flash Grenade, Flash Grenade EX, Nigayomogi, Lobotomy Slash, Door of Hades, Terror Eyes, Balzac, Spring of Life, Randy Haze, True Ziodyne, Panic Voice, Posumudi, Enradi, Charmdi
and tetraja will be in the next update

lobotomy slash is actually a name i just made up

(i considered "true lobotomy" from strange journey)

wait a second, i just realized the plant nigayomogi is "artemsia" in english

i should move it to mitsuru

[undone elm]

what even is that skill lol

[random basin]

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Poison_Rain

i used some really obscure skill names for some. randy haze is from smt if...

nevermind, she doesn't really have room for skills or anything good to replace. only aigis, ken, and shinji really have room to add extra skills beyond what i've already added.

[blissful grove]

Can one use this mod on a ongoing save file?

[random basin]

yes, i've been particular not to add anything that would cause issues from that

if you want to learn new party member skills they've passed the level of, you can even relearn them at blue v whatever

[cold prairie]

did you add or tweak the doors of hades skill ?

[random basin]

those are all modified versions of duplicate skills normally unobtainable by the player. door of hades is edited from a copy of megidola. it's effectively new, but technically not.

[random basin]

let me know if you guys think the difficulty values should be raised or lowered, by the way. the reason enemy damage goes from x1.75 to x3.0 is so they can still be threatening with 40% tarukaja and 40% rakunda, but now that's gone.

[undone elm]

keep in mind though, now tarunda and rakukaja are nerfed, and those were actively stronger than tarukaja/rakunda anyways

like, if the enemy has tarukaja and you have rakukaja, you take less damage than you would if nobody had buffs

so if the values are actually even between them now, then you'll take more damage in in many scenarios, and its harder to completely shut down enemies with defense

[random basin]

i think they cancel each other out actually, right? that was the impression i got from btlcalc.

[undone elm]

They don't because of how the math works

[random basin]

yeah, assuming it uses math

[undone elm]

1 divided by 0.6 is 1.66666666667

you can see it in game too if you test them

[random basin]

oh, okay. the x1.00 buffs must just be for having no buffs.

that makes more sense

[undone elm]

if you want buff/debuff to be 1.25x, and you want taru/raku to cancel each other out, then you'd want to set rakukaja and such to be 0.8

which ig would be written as 80

[random basin]

well, i'll see how i like it from testing it myself

[undone elm]

lowering the values in general is good though because the difference between buffs and no buffs before was just too big

[random basin]

vanilla merciless has you do x0.60 damage, but with 40% buffs, that's not as bad as it sounds

so i might make it x0.70-x0.65, maybe

i honestly expected even x2.5 damage to be way too ridiculous when i first tried it, and was really surprised x3.00 was playable. probably part of that is that boost/amp nerfs apply to bosses, too, and i didn't realize how strong buffs were back then.

p3p's maniac is x2.00, and that felt pretty brutal

at least until you got protect and endure, then it didn't really matter how much damage they did if your team couldn't die

[late raptor]

imo 3.0x is playable if you forcefully maintain buff 100% uptime and the enemies have nothing to do about it

if you were to, for example, merge MM and MQ, the game would probably be unplayable due to the one more exploitation, passives, and dekajas etc

[random basin]

yeah, the nice thing is, every boss i individually rework to let them do something about your buffs, i can simply remove their amps, maybe lower stats a little

[late raptor]

we're probably doing the same just in reverse tbh

[random basin]

so it won't be all imbalanced while it's half-done

probably

i think doing the boss battles after everything (which i pretty much got now with the buffs changed) is better since you'll want to playtest them with all the other changes. otherwise, they might not be balanced anymore.

[late raptor]

personally i've grown to like single target buffs in the early game a lot more, i used to hate the idea

choosing who to buff at the right time to protect or charge them, while being wary of SP costs so you can't blatantly spam them for 100% uptime has added a layer of strategy i was not expecting

[random basin]

yeah, single-target buffs making buffs last longer was a big reason for extending their duration. they're a lot of fun deciding who needs what. it's also why i made debuffs have a chance to miss. if the whole party is debuffed, it's not hard to decide what to do about it. if it's only yukari's attack down and you're using her to heal, maybe ignore it?

and it means agility buffs let you essentially combat buffs by making them less likely to work

[inland juniper]

I would like to give my opinion about the buffs/debuffs hit rate. I know they aren’t guaranteed to 100% anymore, but the accuracy is too forgiving for the 4 turn buffs. (I think the 4 turn buffs apply to AOE as well? Not sure how that works but it feels like it does)

I would say maybe decrease the accuracy for Solo/AOE, like maybe a 93% accuracy for Solo and then maybe like 85% for AOE relating to debuffing enemies? The revamped Theurgy Gauges guarantees 100% accuracy for the debuffs if they don’t block it I’m assuming.

[random basin]

that's a fair idea. the thing that spooked me out of lowering debuff accuracy much is treasure hands with their 99 agility and the lowered minimum hit rate. yukari missed debuffing one like three times in a row. of course, i can simply, you know, lower their agility. i can also have different accuracy depending on the debuff.

85% accuracy for aoe debuffs sounds way too harsh. keep in mind this applies to enemies, too. if you've got masukukaja up, you're gonna dodge their attempts to get rid of it.

[inland juniper]

Ah, I see. I forgot about the enemies part too

[random basin]

yeah, even with it at 99%, it's not uncommon to see debuffs only hit half the party

[inland juniper]

Koromaru passive AGL down for all enemies every battle + party AGL up moment

I may have used that strategy a lot, lol

[random basin]

yeah, want to avoid that situation where you just can't have buffs removed

[inland juniper]

I almost did a long text requesting Fuuka’s charge Theurgy gauge to be improved but I didn’t see the recent patch notes of it being buffed to 70% in 1.5.0 update compared to the 50% in the 1.4.0 version

[random basin]

yeah, that was because of the theurgry reset before bosses. i will look into improving everyone's charge rate traits individually eventually. i already did some for the protagonist.

[inland juniper]

Though this is a suggestion, but maybe make it a 100% hit rate with a -24% SP? Not as harsh as the original backfire, but remember that Reload’s SP items are easily obtained by the time you get Fuuka’s upgraded persona.

[random basin]

so those will be adjusted to specific numbers i choose instead of lowering them all by the same amount

interesting idea, it's certainly possible to make it a drain sp move

my main concern with it is that you'll use the charge/concentrate on theurgy. being inconsistent in more so the downside than the hp.

i could also just make it do something completely different

[inland juniper]

Fuuka is already kinda RNG to begin with, so RNG on top of RNG (granted, you have greater luck with activating specific circumstances) makes me trying to avoid that move altogether when I can get a different buff instead, lol.

Regular allies are knowledge checks with their Therugies and has a guaranteed positive effect if you know the enemy

Fuuka is Fuuka, so her being more fuuka than the per usual for one move only compared to all moves having 100% accuracy makes it kinda different

I apologize for the long rant.

[random basin]

i'll see if i can think of other ideas

it was an awkward solution i did plan on being temporary when i did it

[inland juniper]

By the way, I don’t think I saw in the patch notes, but what changes did you do the Fuuka compared to the previous updates? I saw that her scan ability is 20 SP compared to 35 SP

[random basin]

i hadn't changed her skill values at all before. they're changed now.

scanning is cheaper, overpowered stuff is more expensive

keep in mind you can put spell master on her later

[inland juniper]

Was spell master not in the vanilla version of her persona?

[random basin]

no, i mean as an accessory

oh, wait, you're right. the fuuka sp skill changes weren't documented. i'll fix that.

[cold prairie]

can you make the nyx fight harder ?

[random basin]

that's definitely in the plans. it has a couple buffs already, but reworking its ai and everything comes later. i'm feeling out what i can do with other bosses right now, making sure i know what i'm doing with the simpler ones first.

[random basin]

some stuff i've been up to, by the way: duplicating skill cards will cost 3k yen. adding a few more skills like the two unique pierce skills from the justice-chariot tank on aigis, metatron, and sandalphon. theurgy damage is raised a bit again. special fusions from fes are made special fusions again. restored old cut skills on a good chunk of personas so far.

i've started working on the chidori boss fight, but i'm always making little mistakes in the code since i'm not good at it.

oh, good, i just looked at it again and realized the problem

i got a pretty good idea of how i want her fight to go. i want strega to act really intelligent and feel like a human player, and her strat is to waste your time with ailments while she regenerates and uses her axe to chain one more's off anyone with ailments.

[cold prairie]

can you make chidori have normal boss fight like in the original game instead of a scripted event

[late raptor]

not to steal attention, but master quest does that

[random basin]

yeah, that's what i'm doing. it's playable now, but i just have simple ai right now.

it is surprisingly easy

[late raptor]

yeah because chidori still has a lose condition

i tried making the fight with takaya as ally playable and that one is not possible

hardcoded to not let mc die

i can't call the gameover screen without breaking the game either

[random basin]

yeah, i was thinking about looking into that, but i figured it wouldn't work out. doesn't feel like there's much point of it anyway. the scene is just kinda set up to be a cutscene fight with takaya only using hypnos to finish it off.

way back, i removed the code for the game not letting chidori die, but there's no proper battle outro. she does have a dying animation if you spawn her into a different encounter, though.

really, it's surprising the game lets you die in the chidori fight

(i know because i just got fucking killed by her while testing)

[late raptor]

you can disable takaya's scripting

but

his third phys hit will always crit

and his megidola is the only skill that can actually kill abaddon

[random basin]

i changed that megidola to "door of hades" and made it do 3 weak hits, so now it actually is impressive when he shows off

hypnos lives in hades. it's close enough.

[random basin]

fuck

randy haze 2 gud. i even nerfed it today.

[polar prairie]

Is the homunculus item nerfed? It's not preventing insta kill

[random basin]

no, i haven't touched it

[random basin]

updated to 1.6.0. it's mostly a lot of tweaks, but there's a few new skills in it, and now duplicating skill cards costs 3,000 yen.

chidori isn't quite ready yet, but she'll be in 1.6.1

a lot of personas learn tetraja now, and the two unique skills the justice-chariot uses were nerfed, given names from p2, and put on metatron, sandalphon, and aigis. they probably needed nerfed regardless since 50% crit rate on one and 2500 attack on the other was kind of extreme.

...oh, i forgot i already said all of this above. that's okay, i guess.

[cold prairie]

when will the mod be finished ?

[random basin]

when it's done(tm). i don't really consider it unfinished, just continually being updated.

[coral rivet]

Came back to game after a break and saw the yen cost for shrines. Dude.................why?

[random basin]

free skill card duplication every day seems really excessive. fes didn't have skill cards at all, and portable only let you duplicate one every five days. reload is really generous with how much it lets you duplicate.

you got one every five days before in p3p, and 3k yen every 5 days sounds reasonable enough. if you really, really want more than that, you have the option. i think duplicating needs some kind of limit to it, anyway. i think meovv removed card duplication entirely in his mod.

this mod expects you to be playing the game optimally, and, honestly, going back to the shrine every single day because there's no reason not to was annoying to me

[undone elm]

tbf the yen restriction kind of only effects early game where skill cards are less important anyways

[random basin]

yeah, that was a little bit of the intent. you're more free to abuse the system at the end of the game, but before then, you should be trying to actually fuse to get skills instead of just carding what you want onto everything.

really easy for situations to arise where, "hm, i need a personas that blocks this but has this skill... welp, time to card it in with all my duplicated cards, no need to go to the velvet room."

[late raptor]

i removed it and replaced it with a mechanic that is arguably better, more balanced, and cuts grind time

i think slapping a yen cost on it is just an annoyance with no real change

[undone elm]

tbf i think replacing it is also adding more grind due to certain skill cards being quite rare and generally being useful in making more diverse personas

base model duplication is neat but i've honestly not found it too useful because the game showers you in those anyways, and it also might be a balancing issue because allowing base models to be infinitely duplicated means you can get ali dance and ult weapons on the whole party without much drawback

like it'll be useful for dead moon's husk but i think those are kind of ultra rare for a reason just cus they let anyone get ali dance or reduce magic damage armour lol

[random basin]

i feel like trying to restore skill cards to taking five days to duplicate again would be an even worse option. i could lower the price to 2k, i guess. technically, you should be offering food, not money, but whatever.

without any cost, i just ended up with duplicates of every single card i had, so i could put any skill on any persona at any time after fusing them at no cost regardless of foresight

[coral rivet]

The thing is we end up doing that anyway, and again the addition of a price just becomes a nuisance if anything.

[random basin]

chidori is pretty much done now. i just need to decide where to put her stats. she's kind of kicking my ass. which means i did good, i think.

wait, did i remember to put in fire break? well, she's about done, anyway. i think i'll have to lower her hp to 1,200 like in the original game. which is nice because it was like that since she has the 12th arcana.

i gotta lower the minimum charm duration back to 1 now that charmdi is back and me patra doesn't cure it. i want strega to be hard, but she's going to be annoying if she's not balanced carefully.

[undone elm]

wouldn't yukari and protag have amrita shower by this point?

[random basin]

this guy's yukari is level 52. i've been testing with different saves i download for different results and stuff. you're right, though, he's level 60 but hasn't fused amrita shower yet.

[undone elm]

if the exp cap is any similar to master quest's, you can get to level 60-63 for this fight, yeah

[random basin]

his party members are low because he's probably been using them equally. that's why i actually raised the exp gain slightly at certain levels.

[undone elm]

i used everyone equally too in MQ so idk its probs not that

plus you have the clock

actual scenario is they most likely just... didn't do Harabah 1 before Chidori showed up

[random basin]

sucks that a repelled attack can't be absorbed, otherwise i'd have her avoid fire break if you repel it since you couldn't win her dps check like that

that idea will just have to go unfulfilled

[distant rune]

do you have the P4G preorder DLC? if so, I could send my save archive tomorrow if you're looking for more saves to test.

[random basin]

sure, i do. more saves wouldn't hurt.

[cold prairie]

can you change the level you need to be to fuse thanatos ?

[random basin]

i could, but i think he's better at a higher level, and i decided not to go around changing persona levels anyway. it would throw off fusion calculators and probably annoy people.

[random basin]

that's a lotta saves, thanks

[random basin]

okay, updated with chidori

[distant rune]

yeah I figured this save archive would be useful for later if I ever did more modding with the game (I did not)

hopefully it helps you though haha

[random basin]

hopefully the three-day wait on duping cards is more well-received. it was five days in p3p, so i'm still being generous.

[distant rune]

downloading thru R2 gets me this wonderful error, dunno if you know anything about that... (seems fine downloading thru GB)

[distant rune]

I'll emphasize that I'm not the most skilled player and that my persona builds were far from optimal (I did not cover my weaknesses), so keep that in mind. I just used the save I had, which was on hard mode NG.

I do think it felt a little overtuned though. I tried the fight a few times and it was rough because with how she targets weaknesses, given the number of turns she gets, she will just keep targeting the same person over and over again so they're basically guaranteed to die in her turn. like for example I had Ken in my team; she hits him with a dark skill, and then hits him with another dark skill, and then hits him with another dark skill... or she hits you with charm (in my attempts, they hit everyone every time) and at that point it's just kinda over bc your party just kills themselves

previously with this fight, obviously it was scripted but Siegfried kinda just got to spam power charge brave blade so it definitely felt a bit more engaging

I also didn't really have a good ice persona either lol bc at that point in the game, it was scarlet havoc spam...

at the same time, she didn't seem to have a lot of health, but I'm not sure if her regen/spring of life makes up for it. one power charge brave blade did like 800 damage to her, so had I been able to follow up on that, seems like she would've just died then and there lol

[random basin]

noted. i might have made a mistake with her checking if party members are down or not. she's not supposed to do that every time, especially if someone else has an ailment or weakness.

it is supposed to be rough on hard mode, though, and, yeah, she's not supposed to have a ton of health. strega aren't big monster shadows, just humans, so i think they should have very dangerous ai but not particularly high stats.

maybe lower luck

[distant rune]

yeah you should take this all with a grain of salt bc it's not like I really built my personas or team comp to be super super strong lol
just felt frustrating though because it was like... what am I supposed to do about her laser focusing a single target and having like 4 turns? it's basically a guaranteed kill, so it feels more unfair than hard if that makes any sense.

[random basin]

yeah, i do still want party members to die a little bit so it's a threat you have to try to mitigate. if there's no risk, that's too easy. the penalty for it is wasting one turn and losing half their theurgy charge, so, ideally, you have to be careful balancing defense and offense. ...however, theurgy is disabled in the chidori fight. oh well.

it's good tension since it's half of your current theurgy you lose, not half your whole bar. the closer you are to filling it up, the more you're going to lose if someone goes down. great for pacing, starting the fight with low risk, then things getting tense near the end.

[undone elm]

tbf though you could also just bring members who aren't weak to her attacks

aigis has insta-heal for the ailments and koromaru nulls fire and dark while doing good damage with getsu-ei

[distant rune]

I did notice that, no theurgy lol

I only tried it with one party, I was honestly assuming that she could hit all weaknesses so I didn't bother testing other party comps

if that's the case then it's probably more fine then

[random basin]

like i figured, looking at chidori's ai again, i had her her going after members with ailments but not check if they're already down, so she'd axe people confused on the ground, trying to dizzy when she can't. i'll set up her weak/ail check to axe if someone has ailment and is not down -> agi/mudi/eiga/axe anyone weak and not down -> axe anyone down and no ailment to inflict dizzy and then leave alive.

i think her ai should already be avoiding hitting downed enemies with their weakness, though. not sure if they're getting unlucky with her randomly using an attack or the down-check isn't working right.

even for her, finishing off downed enemies is a worse strategy than getting more knockdowns

[random basin]

i made sleeping table 2.0 and managed to beat the fucker. felt good.

totally skipped my mind that i'd have to replace the terminal table fight i redid with the og sleeping table, so i guess i'm slapping that ai on something else later

[dawn isle]

Sorry i wanna ask if you're available @random basin

I have a problem that the mod itself only apply half of it

This is what it should be look like ( I think )

it also said in here that orpheus will have alot of skills through out the game but only the vanilla skills in my game

( I don't really know how to check if the mod actually work or not so i can only assume via everything that i found in the pastebin and gamebanana )

nvm for everything

i just reinstall all and it work like a charm

[random basin]

i know you already fixed it, but you probably either didn't have all the requirements installed or had it conflicting with another mod installed. probably the former.

[random basin]

the thing i'm working on right now, by the way, is rebalancing theurgy charge rates. i think it's too slow and not getting full before bosses end. ideally, i'd want you to start getting them in the second half of the fight.

it needs more testing, but i added secondary conditions that give characters boosts to try to fix it. door gets a boost from low hp and getting knocked down like shinji, yuka-tan from support, jumpy from skills in general, aki for any attack skills, mits for healing, aigis for getting shifted to, ken for using magic attacks, koro for getting crits, and shinji for using phys skills. in addition to their regular ones.

keep in mind you lose theurgy for getting ko'd, which is actually supposed to happen during fights now, and really hurts theurgy gain. makes it charge slower as a side effect, so i need to adjust for that. making theurgy charge slower isn't intended.

it's kinda expected for people to go down during bosses in oldsona and smt games, so, you know

oh, and i restored special fusions like attis like someone suggested

[random basin]

updated

Tweaked all Theurgy charge rates. Party members now have a second condition that accelerates their charge. Intended to be faster overall.
Made special fusion Personas from FES (like Attis) special fusions again.
Nerfed Shinjiro's entire skillset.
Rebalanced Terminal Table, changing him back into Sleeping Table from FES.
Fixed up mistakes in Chidori's new AI.
Toned down difficulty modifiers to ailment accuracy.
Buffed less-useful accessories with stat boosts.
Polished skill descriptions some more.

[random basin]

updated again. priestess and the three thebel bosses are rebalanced now. notably the three birds weak to pierce that hit junpei's weakness with magaru are back. orpheus has a skill that restores 50 hp to everyone to make up for losing cadenza, really just the same skill an item already does.

apsaras got sukukaja too since the bird fight without agility up is a huge pain

finally, besides adding her cut skills from fes, i wanted the priestess to still be able to attack on turns she sped up the monorail, and i found a neat little solution in simply making invitation to chaos do slash damage. it already looks like it should hurt you.

[blissful grove]

This mod is snot designed for any other language than English, right? I play with JP text and ENG text still pops up in certain places like the startup for connecting to Network and Skill Description.

[random basin]

yes, that's correct. you could manually fix that by going into the mod folder, looking in the ue-atlus-script folder for all the message files (they all start with "BMD_" and end in ".msg") and deleting those. that will have it use the language it's set to, but then the skill descriptions and whatnot won't be accurate for modified skills. any of the mod's new skills won't have descriptions at all.

i'll try to be aware of the way i set the files up and how they'll interact with other language modes. if something is purely flavor and doesn't impact gameplay, i can make sure it only affects the english version. you'll notice skill names or enemy names should still be in japanese since it loads them differently.

unfortunately, not really a good solution besides making a separate version of the mod for every language

[random basin]

i've been working on the hermit boss fight, might update today if i think he's all good now. it's really tricky to get him to 1. require effort to knock out of charge, 2. be very scary to let get charged up but not a guaranteed loss, 3. still make a decent attempt at fighting outside of his charge gimmick instead of wasting every turn trying to charge.

stats and stuff right now are

Hermit: 5000 HP, 35 Str, 45 Mag, 85 End, 30 Agl (from 8000, 55, 90, 25, 10)
Slash=Weak(+15%), Strike=Resist, Light=Weak
Normal: Elec Break, Dekunda, Dekaja, Matarunda, Marakunda, Zionga, Mazionga, Mamudo, Maeiha; Low HP: Ziodyne, -Zio, -Mazio
Charging Up: Tarukaja, Rakukaja, Makarakarn; Low HP: Heat Riser, Tetrakarn, Matarunda
Failed Charge: Thunder Baptism, -Mazio
Charged: Thunder Baptism, Mega Spark, Giga Spark, Myriad Arrows, Primal Force; Final Charge: Maziodyne, Tera Spark -God's Hand, -Swift Strike
Passives: Null Shock, Null Dizzy, Shock Boost, Elec Boost, Resist Freeze, Fast Heal, -Null Freeze
AI: Has 2 turns when not charged. During normal or charging state, has a chance to delay a turn of his Normal->Charging->Charged cycle and attack from his normal skill pool.

fun strat is to elec break him

i had to give him fast heal since it seems like his ai will give him infinite turns while frozen until he thaws out if it's trying to knock him out of charge while he's frozen. it was funny.

[oblique egret]

Hello sorry. I'm "Charlie Kraken" on Gamebanana and I've been having an issue with the mod today

since the update I'm getting random lag spikes when I play with the mod. I understand PC gaming is a whole bag of worms so I would just like access to the earlier version of the mod for download even just privately if possible

Its been a great time its really made the game significantly more fun for me as a Persona veteran so thanks a ton for that

[random basin]

@oblique egret yeah, someone asked for that before https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rwg2tTAqAS1SpXT8lyZevN-eCF5cesdn?usp=drive_link

[oblique egret]

Thank you very much

[cold prairie]

quick question is the band-ace item supposed to heal or revive ? because to me at least it says that it to revives with 35% health but when i use it it heals it does not revive. so is this a bug or is it something else ?

[random basin]

it's supposed to revive with slightly less health than revival beads. you have the files for modified skills and stuff, right? if you don't, that would be causing it to be a 20-hp heal instead.

[random basin]

@cold prairie yeah, i tested it, and it works fine for me. you must be missing DatSkillNormalDataAsset.uasset

[cold prairie]

how do i fix it ?

[random basin]

try deleting and redownloading the mod

[oblique egret]

It turns out I just needed to reinstall windows to fix the slowdown issue I'm dumb

anyways do you have any plans to update the mod for The Answer DLC? Even just carrying over the baseline changes would be enough. I understand modding is a whole thing and you probably can't make any promises right now

but I figured I'd ask

[random basin]

i'll have to wait until we get our hands on the answer to see exactly how it'll work, but, yes, i do plan on covering it too

[random basin]

about done overhauling hierophant and lovers bosses. they got two turns, a lot more skills, a lot more strategic ai. lovers basically already had two turns with how they gave him a 100% crit holy arrow, anyway. lovers is doing a weird bug where he uses a skill called "attack" that softlocks the fight, though. all the skill id's i entered look right no matter how many times i check them, but he's sometimes doing skill 0 for some reason?

[random basin]

@late raptor yo, it's cool if i modify your ai tactics mod to incorporate into my mod so they can be compatible together, right? says to ask, so i'm asking. i think you're already aware there's a little issue with the ai thinking theurgies still pierce.

[late raptor]

is the only issue the theurgy pierce error

[random basin]

i think so? i'm actually testing other tactics stuff right this second. i'm checking to see if they use skills they weren't meant to have properly, and i might try to get them to target weaknesses on full moon bosses that can't be knocked down.

the theurgy thing is the main thing, anyway. looks simple to fix.

[late raptor]

it is

[random basin]

oh, yeah, it looks like junpei doesn't recognize to use spring of life to heal himself. i'll look into that too.

[late raptor]

i can't implement it into the main mod

because, well

they'd stop piercing with it

[random basin]

yeah, there's no way to make it compatible

[late raptor]

there's a funny way we could make it compatible but it doesn't work yet

well it does but it's not worth it

[random basin]

unfortunate since it really doesn't need big changes, but whatever. it's fine for me to use?

[late raptor]

i was thinking

if you toggle an unused flag somewhere players are guaranteed to interact, such as tartarus entrance or whatever

that flag could serve as memento mori = installed

which the tactics mod could seek

but it's a bit roundabout

[random basin]

oh, now we're being clever

[late raptor]

actually no you don't even need to do this

you don't need the entire tactics mod

you only need to hook the theurgia function

you'd make a hooked theurgia function which would then overwrite my mod

but only that part of my mod

so if I updated the mod

you wouldnt have to update yours

unless i messed with theurgy specifically

[random basin]

hm...

[late raptor]

do you know how hooks work

[random basin]

sort of. i've only used it for one thing right now.

[late raptor]

wait actually @sudden grotto is hooks for the purpose of mod merging working in P3R Essentials?

would someone be able to hook a function replacing only part of my mod? without having to bundle the whole thing in?

[random basin]

would only be beneficial to me to have a reason to do more with it and learn, anyway

oh, fixing the ai not recognizing modded-in skills like spring of life would need changing the skill, not the ai, actually. so that's not a compatibility issue, i don't think. probably.

[sudden grotto]

No, I still haven't updated BF Emualtor and P3R Essentials to support it

I did think about this recently and realised that it's not going to be easy if we want to keep it like Persona Essentials where you include a dummy bf and it pulls the real one from the game. I'd need to add some way to load files from the game to unreal essentials or something which sounds hard...

We could just accept that you have to put the actual original bf there and then it shouldn't be hard though

[late raptor]

[random basin]

the flag thing should work if you'd rather add the compatibility into your mod like you suggested. i don't think it needs anything changed other than theurgy use conditions.

[late raptor]

let me sleep on it late

[random basin]

sure. i tested it out in the meantime using battle flag 444, and it seems fine.

[oblique egret]

just a small FYI I've been meaning to bring up but I keep forgetting. Makarakarn has a typo in its description. Its had this for a while for me so it might just be a me-issue which if it is then no big deal cause I know what it does

but in case its a universial error I figured I'd bring it up

[random basin]

thanks, i'll fix that. i wonder where that mistake came from.

[oblique egret]

Dope and yeah no biggie

[random basin]

i'm toying with the tactics ai's theurgy use conditions at the moment, stuff like using break skills when theurgy is full and choosing targets if one enemy resists their theurgy and but other ones are vulnerable. i'm not super fast, so still plenty of time for meovv to decide later whether to implement it in his mod or do it some other way. if we do that, though, i figured the best way would be to just have it all isolated in a separate procedure that will never get called without the mod.

[late raptor]

you can do either that, or, when checking resists, you do (null && mori installed) in the same if expression

probably cleaner to just have a mori specific function though yeah

[random basin]

yeah, it would be messy to have a bunch of checks for the flag everywhere

i have currently jinxed myself by saying this should be easy, anyway. since there is VERY CONVENIENTLY no function to check nor target neutral affinity, i can't quite think of a way to handle the ai targeting a mix of enemies that are and aren't immune to their theurgy.

[random basin]

it would at least be an improvement to settle for having them use a break or wait for you to use one if anything on the field resists their element, but i feel like there should be some roundabout way to do this... checking for what affinity is causing the conflict and then not targeting that affinity kind of works, but not if there's two enemies that are both immune.

[oblique egret]

also sorry side note I noticed that you gave Orpheus Telos Null Phys

its not a huge deal as it can be overwritten/not learned but that does make him unable to be used in the Elizabeth fight by default which is a bit counter-intuitive to its design

as its meant to be a "optimal Persona to use against Elizabeth" but you can't bring anything that nulls an element against her

its fine if you want to keep it that way its just something to consider

[random basin]

yeah, that's primarily just to get it off messiah without outright removing content. maybe i'll put it on chi you instead.

[oblique egret]

Yeah I think that might be better but its your call

[oblique egret]

Hey so I was doing the Chidori boss fight today (great job making it difficult) but also I noticed thurgies didn't charge at all during it

just reporting this in case it hasn't been reported yet

unless its intentional for thematic reasons in that case I get it

[undone elm]

That's also the case in the base game

She's also immune to crits there too

[random basin]

it's intentional. it's not listed in the changelog because that's how it is in the normal game. i think i could disable it if i wanted, but it would mess up her gimmick if you could save up theurgies.

it makes sense she can't be crit since they probably don't want you to knock her down and hear junpei yelling during the all-out attack

still appreciated though

[oblique egret]

Yeah I figured that might be the case (and I agree with keeping it)

but I wasn't 100% sure

Cause I've only played P3FES and P3P before so I hadn't seen the P3R version of the fight

which btw thank you so much for this mod cause I love Reload but it would have gotten very tedious to play an easier version of a game I've played before for 100 some odd hours

really helped the experience

[torpid schooner]

Hi, quick question.

can this mod be enabled during a playthrough or should it only be enabled on a fresh save?

[random basin]

you can enable or disable it whenever

if you want to learn new party member skills you missed out on, you can learn them at be blue v

[random basin]

by the way, i decided to remove single-target boost from yukari since i think she's strong enough in endgame. i'm thinking about multi-target boost instead, though. not really a magic aoe-focused character. have to either drop vidyaraja's blessing or amrita drop for it, though. not sure if vidyaraja's makes her too op in endgame... it's only 15% phys evasion, but that matters on a low-hp low-agl character.

[random basin]

ah, yes, and i noticed i had polydeuces (not caeser) learn slash amp at 88 instead of strike amp. good thing it was on pollux so nobody would ever see that.

[hallow wigeon]

havent tried this out yet but it looks very promising, will definitely give it a shot once it's a bit further down the road! quick initial question though, why the attack renames for the DLC persona attacks? They're all actual move names those personas had in either their base games (the p5 stuff) or spinoffs (stuff like cross slash and magatsu mandala are from p4 arena), so why change the names to random other persona/SMT moves, especially if their unique animations are going to be the same? also wondering why from a balance perspective there are player accessible versions of boss only attacks, like high voltage current, ice storm, etc. I read the section about them in the changelist but I wasn't fully clear how/why this change was made from your explanation. Did you revamp the magic/phys system to have a new highest tier of skills that come after the preexisting highest ones, or are they just sidegrades to existing spells that share the boss attack's visuals? Are they unique to specific personas or are they just inheritable by anything? Regardless of the answer, what does gaining access to these extra moves really do to benefit the gameas opposed to sticking with reworking the spells we can already get normally? I personally like that the bosses all have unique attacks and things only they can do, so giving the player and/or party a way to use those same moves over and over again kinda just feels like it'd cheapen their visual impact, no matter how balanced from a numbers standpoint they are. To me it feels like a very "mod" thing to do, which isn't necessarily bad, just somewhat counterintuitive to what I was expecting for what seems to be an attempt at a toned down version of the game that is trying to keep the difficulty curve less about just unlocking the next bigger and better moves and more about having to interface with the tactics and decision making instead of just brute forcing combat.

Sorry if any of this came off as too confrontational or non-constructive since that's not my intention at all, and again i haven't tested this mod out myself yet so any or all of these questions may have apparent answers if I had. I really do think you've done an incredible amount of work here and I'd love to give this thing a go once it's got more or less all the planned features, but I just kinda didn't understand the why of some of your changes when things either already made sense the way they were or I can't really figure out what those changes really do to make combat balance less polarizing and extreme

[random basin]

yeah, i'd thought about that, and it is very "mod-y", but i thought it wouldn't be a big deal to use them very sparingly. so, first, the dlc skills are renamed because 1. one of the goals and themes of the mod is reverting things to how they were in the original, personas, bosses, and small details, in part for the sake of nostalgia. that's what the "memento", "remember" part of the name means. (i thought about the name for a little.) one of the complaints about reload is that it "feels like they p5-ified the game", and while that's not strictly a flaw or anything, it's something some people dislike, and i think there would be an overlap between them and downloading a "hardcore" difficulty mod. feeling more "old-school" is simply one of the themes of the mod.

one of the purposes of that is to give some sense of direction, too. recarmdra is a skill i think was underpowered and not useful, so when thinking of how to change it, i looked back to how it was in p1 and p2 and made it revive multiple party members. it's a change a gameplay change from p3, but it should feel natural and recognizable for the skill instead of completely arbitrary. the dlc skill renames are changed for the same reasoning. for balance reasons, ice age, for instance, is not actually on kamu susano-o any longer. it's also now an aoe ice spell that does 2-4 hits and can be slightly stronger than mabufudyne at the cost of less consistency and lower accuracy. that's exactly what glacial blast does in a lot of megaten games, and the name should make it feel more intuitive and natural that that's what it does now. (multi-hit move damage is also affected more by passive multipliers, which is another difference.) additionally, if skills like magatsu mandala and sinful shell that reference games made after p3 (bad for the mod's theming) aren't exclusively associated with those dlc personas anymore, and they're now generic skills anything can use, it makes sense they have names that reflect that.

and 2. i want as many excuses as i can to argue this mod isn't about giving you access to the dlc content so gamebanana doesn't get on my case, so i simply changed their names

SO, the access to enemy-only skills. it wasn't something i initially planned except for giving junpei spring of life since he used to have it, but i figured there was no harm in it since i've already set the precedent i can 1. add entirely new skills like tetraja, balzac, randy haze, and 2. let you use enemy-only skills. i think all of the skills unique to the full moon bosses can only be obtained at level 90+, and mitsuru and akihiko learn them only at level 99, at which point the game is pretty much over. it can't do much harm to gameplay balance at that point. one other goal for the mod was to sprinkle in some new stuff to spice up second playthroughs for people, and that's what those are for. same reason you can fuse strega's personas despite that also feeling very much like a mod-y thing to include. it's something a little fun to play with now that you're already at the end of the game.

[random basin]

i said changing the tactics ai would be easy, but making it actually smart has a lot more going on than i expected. i guess that's a good sign my theurgy changes actually did add more depth with more factors to consider?

then after that, if no enemies are neutral to wind, use wind break if she has it, otherwise if it's a boss fight and she doesn't have her second theurgy, settle for attacking something that at least only resists wind if possible

i'm not sure if targeting weak is necessary since they should already have knocked them down to use their theurgy on the one more for more damage, but i guess it could come up if there's multiple enemies knocked down and only one is weak to wind?

now i need to get them to not try to knock down full moon bosses with weakness and immunity to knockdown but still always target their weakness when they do attack

[oblique egret]

Your therugy changes are one of my favorite things about the mod

it really does make the combat more fun cause you're encouraged to use them more often and the debuffs mean you use them more tactically

them being weaker overall also means you use different ones more often like even in January I use Jack Bros sometimes to try and fish for a knockdown and its been clutch

[random basin]

hmm, i've been doing one last check over all the party member skills now that i've finished gradually adding skills to them and tweaking skills, making sure i check the game formulas and recheck the numbers again, and it seems like aki is too weak and koro is too strong at the endgame. buff amp was the thing that made aki op as fuck in the original game, and it's toned down. i guess i need to take hellfire (2-4 fire hits) off koro and put the elec equivalent on aki.

i didn't realize agility effects how many hits multi-hits do, and koro's innate agility and auto-masukunda make it free to get maximum benefit from that. aki has buff amp for sukukaja to increase his damage from them more, but that requires you buff instead of getting it for free.

[random basin]

well, i actually had their aoe damage exactly the same before factoring in agility, accuracy, str, crits

koro divine judge: 22 x 1.6 x 1.25 = 44
aki god's hand: 24.5 x 1.6 x 1.4 = 54.88 x bloody charge 1.15 = 63.1
aki maziodyne: 14.5 x 1.6 x 1.4 = 32.48
koro hellfire: 5.5 x 1.6 x 1.25 x 3 avrg hits = 33

but, with sukukaja, it's more like 3.5 hits, apparently, so suku/taru koro's aoe damage is 38.5 compared to taru aki's 32.5. i guess this is fine, actually.

yukari-ken seem balanced, junpei-mitsuru seem balanced. i think it's only aigis that might be too good over shinji and aki now...

[polar prairie]

Fusions results where changed with this mod right? Can't find a combo for helel

[unreal depot]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3230774091

According to the guide, the average number of hits a skill can do goes up or down depending on whether the caster has Sukukaja or Sukundra, it doesn't take into account the target's status.

[unreal depot]

So Koro's Auto-Sukundra isn't helping him get more hits. If I'm understanding everything correctly.

[random basin]

ah, right, it's purely the attacker's

[unreal depot]

It also doesn't take into account the caster's agility stat. At least, that's not mentioned in the guide.

[random basin]

i think it should be the same

3 new strega personas are special fusions and won't affect normal fusions, and there's six that are removed from the regular fusion pool to be special fusions, but those are girimekehla, daisouji, lilith, attis, sandalphon, and arahabaki. personas that resulted from those should be the only ones different.

helel is star rank 10, by the way

[random basin]

oh, i see. and it must not take buff amp into consideration either. wouldn't make either of them stronger if i moved them.

[oblique egret]

Oh yeah I totally forgot to mention I came across Daisoujou in Shuffle Time even though I'm not supposed to now

[random basin]

hmm, he is technically still there, just with a 0% probability and the other ones raised. i guess it doesn't work like that. i'll make him and giri different personas in that range just in case you somehow get the 0% probability, i guess.

[random basin]

...why does the rank 20 shuffle time consist of one 100% jack-o-lantern drop. 19 and 21 are in the 40-ish range. this must go unused or something.

[oblique egret]

that's really interesting

[random basin]

not sure what fight it is, but maybe some battle forces you to get him for jack bros. apsaras is used like that, rank 0 shuffle is 100% apsaras.

[oblique egret]

Small typo alert, Trickster still says "to all foes"

[random basin]

thanks. i probably forgot to change it since i'm still not 100% sure about what to make trickster do for utility. maybe fire+ice+wind+elec break?

if you're using it over scarlet havoc or king and i, might be because it's an enemy with a lot of resists. gives it more situational utility instead of being equally good in any situation.

[oblique egret]

I think fire+ice+wind+elect break would be great for utility while making it more situational yeah

that change has my vote

[oblique egret]

I'm encountering a game softlock level issue where this enemy uses a move called "Attack" and it softlocks the game

This is the only gameplay altering mod I have

I can work around it in the meantime by exploiting its weakness and just not letting it have a turn but its an actual issue

[random basin]

oh, right. i forgot there's one single enemy in the game that uses recarmdra. should have tested that.

i'd wanted to do some testing with how ailment affinities work and stack with weak/resist and percentage modifiers, but i should probably push an update out by now with what i've got done before that

[oblique egret]

Its up to you but yeah

[oblique egret]

Not a problem glad I was able to bring it to your attention

[random basin]

@late raptor yo, i finished the tactics ai changes i wanted to make. it only took slightly longer than i'd planned. i ended up tweaking more stuff than i'd expected, but it's still nothing a bunch of &&'s couldn't fix. it's still up to you, but i'd suggest i work it into my mod instead of merging into yours. i might want to tweak it more or use the tactics script for another purpose, and it would create a minor issue where someone deciding to disable mori mod after saving would still have the flag active, and it'd permanently mess up the tactics mod. might be able to workaround that, though. ironically, turning the flag on from the tactics script would be a good place to make it turn on from battles.

having adaptable compatibility would be cool, though. that's what the REAL mod scenes have, like fallout new vegas.

well, i mean turning it on from the tactics script would be good if that wasn't the whole issue

[oblique egret]

sorry to interrupt with a typo report but in case you didn't notice Ken's second theurgy also still says "All". Keep up the good work and I'm glad I can help in a small way

[random basin]

it does revive all fallen allies if there's two people down

it would be A LOT more useful if it triggered automatically if ken went down with full theurgy...

[oblique egret]

aaaah sorry

also I defeated The Reaper but didn't get the Bloody Button did you lower its drop rate?

fine if you did but just wanted to double check the drop chance was still there

[random basin]

oh, can an enemy only drop one item? i figured you'd always get the bloody button like this.

[oblique egret]

yeah I defeated the reaper and did not get the Bloody Button

[random basin]

well, waiting for meovv at least gives me time to put some last-minute stuff in the update. there's some equipment effects that can't be obtained on accessories (or at all), and i thought it'd be neat major bosses dropped stuff.

there's a panel of the manga that has a bunch of copies of the protag wearing all the full moon boss masks as a metaphor, so that inspired me

[random basin]

shit, i just realized they already drop the tarot cards as key items instead. i'll have to repurpose these.

[oblique egret]

Monrad Passage bosses maybe?

[late raptor]

i don't think the key items do anything lol

it's a flag but that's it

can probably change it to be an accessory

This seems like bloat though, I can't think of a single reason where these effects are worth consideration by a player

[random basin]

yeah, i assumed it was a flag without checking. and i think evasion equipment can be really useful against certain bosses. it's not really fair to give a boss two turns, smarter ai, and break skills without their being any way to reduce their damage besides a 25% rakukaja.

i mean the vanilla game obviously doesn't have anything hard enough it's worth considering, but that's the point

[random basin]

ok, updated to v1.7.4

i still want to do more testing and tweaking of ailment rates. foul breath is, to my understanding, a x2.0 multiplier, which i should really figure out how to change. the vanilla game was relying on the me patra buff and the aoe ailment safety checks to balance things.

[polar prairie]

What does yukari tranquility do in the mod?

Description says it's heals, removes debuffs, and buffs all stats.

But it doesn't seem to be doing anything

Ohhh I think it gives concentrate +mind charge to everyone?

[random basin]

that's what it does in the unmodded game. maybe reinstall the mod or something?

[polar prairie]

Huh that's strange pretty sure the mod is working as I do see Memento Mori in the difficulty

[random basin]

UnrealEssentials\P3R\Content\Xrd777\Battle\Tables\DatSkillNormalDataAsset.uasset is the file that changes skill effects. i'm assuming it's not there for some reason.

[ember crown]

This mod is really great by the way. My only problem so far is some party members being pretty underpowered until late game. A big example for me is Ken, when you first get him he is basically a walking death waiting to happen he literally dies if you poke him too hard. You’re not really incentivised to use him over Yukari as she is infinitely a better healer and support + Sukunda is busted with her on against bosses, I can’t comment on how he plays late game but the moveset seems to improve a lot late-game id just like to see him get a bit better when you first get him

I feel like Ken would be a good second healer option if you don’t want to use Yukari as I feel right now that she is basically essential if you don’t want MC to be a healer

[oblique egret]

I ended up going with Aigis Ken and Koromaru as my main team for my playthrough on Lunatic

though I used everyone except Junpei plenty

I personally found Ken to be fairly useful later in the game espically cause I like running Aigis for her damage output

and I don't like having two party members share a weakness

[ember crown]

His lack of early revive and ailment support just made him an item slave for me

So I ended switching back to Yukari since she is busted

[oblique egret]

yeah I don't deny Yukari being the better party member

just a personal preference of mine but I did use Yukari plenty

[ember crown]

I’ve ended up using Yukari for all my playthroughs I’m going to switch it up next time probably it’s just she’s too good to switch out a lot of the time

She costs basically nothing to heal it’s crazy

[oblique egret]

yeah its super good and I did end up having to use healing items a ton given my main party comp

half of the time I swapped Ken out for Mitsuru

[ember crown]

Ken is a massive SP item drainer

[oblique egret]

its just I like Aigis' reliability and I don't like having a party that implodes if the enemy has Zio skills

I found the opposite

it felt like he had infinite SP given his hang out skills recovering 10 a turn

I just needed to space out his more SP intensive skills in a fight and he's fine

as in use items/phys

[ember crown]

Maybe I need to spam healing less since I’m used to Yukari’s basically free healing

[oblique egret]

oh yeah that's something I learned to do

was let myself be at not-full HP

being smart with guarding and also Koromaru's auto-masukunda

helped a lot with that

I basically never swapped Koromaru out once I got him

[ember crown]

I was going to use Koromaru but I’m using Shinji a lot so his revolution didn’t really help him out much

[oblique egret]

right I'm not using the Shinji mod myself

but that makes sense

[ember crown]

Shinji has equipment that makes him have Auto-Revolution so it makes poor Koro not so good

[oblique egret]

makes sense

for my Shinji-less playthrough Koromaru was definitely an MVP

he pairs great with Aigis

[ember crown]

They seem like they’d be great together

[oblique egret]

yeah they synergize really well and his revolution allows Aigis to buff up her damage output even more

and get more reliable crit knockdowns

the only party member I didn't find super useful was Junpei tbh

but that was to be expected

[ember crown]

I haven’t used Junpei since he was benched for Mitsuru

I want to try and use him at some point

[oblique egret]

yeah I like getting everyone to level 99 at the end of the game so I used him for a handful of fights just when I could spare a clock charge

but every time it just felt like everything he can do someone else can do better and more reliably

but he was also underwhelming in FES

imo at least

Akihiko on the other hand, the mod definitely helps his usefulness in Reload

but he still fell off late game for me

whereas he was great in FES/Portable

[ember crown]

Ironically the hardest boss for me in this mod was the shadows you fight before the first full moon boss

I died to them like 3 times? And the actual boss I beat first try

[oblique egret]

yeah that's understandable

The hardest boss for me thus far (I still have to do 1/31 but I've done everything else)

was definitely this mod's version of Chidori

it ended up being a really fun fight

[ember crown]

I haven’t got to that part yet I think I’m almost there?

[oblique egret]

but also since its an original fight I didn't know what to expect

yeah it was fun for me as a Persona vet to essentially have a brand new fight

[ember crown]

The second worst fight for me was Hermit

I got confused on how it worked

So the first time he charges you can’t stop it? Or can you

[oblique egret]

I don't believe Hermit has a guaranteed charge

I could be wrong on that but I don't think so

[ember crown]

His first phase before he charged was literally a fight between his debuffs and Aigis’s buffs

Everytime Aigis would buff he would use two turns to debuff me

Ken was just always on guard incase he got Eiga’d

[oblique egret]

I didn't bring Aigis to that fight I don't think

Koromaru was my main damage dealer for that one

[ember crown]

Yeah Koromaru might have been a better pick if I had good gear on him

I just had to rely on Orgia mode

And Ken’s Therugy

[oblique egret]

yeah that party comp would definitely make it a bit trickier to knock him out of the charge

[ember crown]

It ended up taking me about an hour all to get rewarded with Ken almost learning Tarukaja

[oblique egret]

Pffff

I will say given my main party comp, Ken having Matarukaja was really helpful

since it allowed me more flexability with who has to apply it

[ember crown]

Yeah I can imagine Matarukaja is good on him but Tarukaja alone I’ve hardly used on Aigis so idk if I’d use it on Ken

[oblique egret]

yeah I didn't use Tarukaja much at all from him

[ember crown]

I hardly used any of the single target buffs

If I needed to buff in a boss I’d use the cooking items for a full party buff

[oblique egret]

I definitely use them early game on protag/Akihiko/Aigis but the nanosecond I get the party wide buffs they stop being useful

its why honestly like

man Heat Riser is so underwhelming

cause by the time you get it you have access to all these auto-ma skills and start each battle with full buffs anyways

and its more practical to just keep them applied in longer fights with ma skills

I haven't used it once

and its just the first to get cut when need be

[ember crown]

Yeah heat riser is good in theory but by the time you learn it it’s easily outclassed if you’re slightly prepared

Debilitate on the other hand on bosses is a game changer

[oblique egret]

yeah Debilitate is fantastic love that move

[ember crown]

I found myself using Cadenza a lot more than I did in base game since I don’t have Koromaru in my team

[oblique egret]

oh even with Koromaru on my team I used Cadenza a good amount

not a ton but it came in clutch

really like the changes made to it one of my favorite buffs in the mod

[ember crown]

Oh yeah it’s 100% a needed change in my opinion it’s just a little TOO good early game

[oblique egret]

Yeah definitely

It quickly becomes balenced mid-game so really I don't think its that big a deal that its a bit too good early

but it is a thing yeah

[ember crown]

One complaint is I think a lot of the common enemies are a bit too strong sometimes

I’ve found sometimes the red shadows are easier since it’s only 1 you have to deal with

[oblique egret]

idk what difficulty you're playing on but for Lunatic at least I both do and don't agree

I didn't find common enemies too hard but rather a fun level of challenging

but

I did find red enemies eaiser

consistently

to the point that when I was grinding The Reaper I used red enemies to get my thurgey gauge up cause it was less risky

[ember crown]

Don’t get me wrong the red enemies aren’t easy

[oblique egret]

yeah easier isn't the same as easy

[ember crown]

It’s just easier to manage 1

[oblique egret]

so I get ya

yeah 100% they felt way more managable

which to me felt a bit underwhelming as I wasn't finding common enemies too hard

so really idk

I love this mod a ton and its such a fun gameplay experience but on a fundamental level

it is making a PS2 era SMT game out of a game designed for Persona 5 newcomers to pick up and play easily

so there's gonna be balencing jank

just inevitably

[ember crown]

I’m playing on memento mori so one weakness hit without any buffs is basically instant death

[oblique egret]

right okay

so you are playing on a harder difficulty than me that makes sense

[ember crown]

I’m no god tier SMT player so I have to cheese a little on some bosses

[oblique egret]

oh no yeah cheese seems like necessary on that difficulty level almost

I'm not incredible at SMT either I just am experienced enough to know how to plan for bosses

[ember crown]

I try to plan for bosses but sometimes I fuse away all my personas before a full moon

[oblique egret]

pffff it happens

[ember crown]

Recarmdra + Bead my beloved

[oblique egret]

its good in a pinch and definitely sounds vital on that level

anyways good talk I'm going to bed

[ember crown]

Have a nice rest

[random basin]

ah, i was still thinking about this since i had been trying to figure out how to buff mid-game ken without stepping on anyone else's toes. i think i got it: change amrita drop (not in fes nor useful) to diamrita from smtv, give it to ken instead as his alternative to me patra and amrita shower. i like it.

endgame, past level 80+, i had to take divine judgement off him since his damage was surpassing koro's and getting too close to yukari's. instead, he'll learn resist ailments, evade dark, and finally vidyaraja's blessing, which meshes well with his agility and luck and gives him some survivability that yukari lacks. which ALSO meshes with his theurgy to revive everyone, since he kinda needs to be alive to use it. i think that all works out.

[random basin]

1. When healing, Yukari and Ken will always pick Media skills over the same tier of Dia when more than one character is under 50% HP, with an exception being if the protagonist is under 25% and needs the extra boost. They will also use Media if all characters are under 75% instead of waiting for one to go under 50%. Characters with only Dia skills will always heal the protagonist if he's below 50% HP, even if someone else is lower. If his health is below 20%, healing takes highest priority over all other actions for all characters.
2. Characters on Act Freely give higher priority to support skills against bosses (especially full moons), then stop as their HP goes through the 25%-45% range. Switch someone to Full Assault if there's too much buff spam. They won't use the same buff twice in a row, at least.
3. Shift conditions and priorities are to Shift if they can hit a weakness, use Media, Recarm, Dekaja, Dekunda, then, based on RNG and factors like higher SP or damage output, to someone else to do anything. Characters are also more likely to shift to characters they like, such as Aki to Shinji, Mitsuru, and Ken. Junpei actually dislikes switching to protag, but Yukari and Aigis prefer him.

anyway, i've ended up simply rewriting the tactics ai myself without copy and pasting meovv's code and trying to make it competent enough it's viable to use. it looks like it's going to end up being four times the size of the barebones unmodded tactics ai.

i just wish i could figure out how to make them use items

[random basin]

shit's broke as of the update, by the way. i don't think it's that bad, so i should be able to fix it soon.

[random basin]

good thing, though, is that means the unused placeholder the answer skills in the main game are officially safe for me to do whatever i want with later

[cold prairie]

what do you mean ?

[random basin]

oh, the mod crashes. i know which file it is, and i'm fixing it right now.

the theurgy boost charge rate tables were totally reorganized for both the main game and the answer, including all 12 characters in both, so i just gotta update them

(it would be done faster if i had a working template and wasn't having to directly hex edit everything)

[oblique egret]

Thank you so much for being on top of things

also, do the baseline changes of the mod automatically carry over to The Answer? like the difficulty percentile changes and moves that are already changed?

or is some stuff automatic and others not or its completely separate

[late raptor]

should be none

the answer is quite literally a completely different game with its own folder

[random basin]

it shares BtlCalc, BtlDifficultyParam, and the level-scaling tables, so those should be the only things

difficulty and some battle and passive skill values

i'm not going to prioritize overhauling the answer before the main game, but i'll try to get it functioning with some more of the mod's basic changes

there's a few files in the base game that the update also modified, so what's what's breaking some stuff

if i'm not mistaken, atlus SHAMELESSLY copied my mod and buffed base game aigis to get more theurgy charge from receiving shifts. that confused me for a second why a change i made was already there.

(i joke, of course)

[oblique egret]

Dope that's more than enough

[oblique egret]

That's super cool that a change you made they also had in mind

[random basin]

yeah, in the base game, everyone gets 2% for being shifted to except shinji, who gets 3%

aigis now gets 6%

being treated like a teammate and not a machine makes her emotions stronger or something. it made sense in my head.

[oblique egret]

that's probably what they were thinking

[random basin]

shinji only gets the extra percent because he gains extra theurgy from literally doing anything

there's probably other theurgy boost changes they made, but it would be funny if the sole reason the update broke my mod was because it was trying to make the same balance tweak i already made

[oblique egret]

that would be funny yeah

[distant rune]

although she does kinda cast her emotions away for a while in the answer so hmmm

[random basin]

ooooooh, wait a second. let me check the answer table then.

uhhh, id 7 now gains 15% from being shifted to, but i think aigis is 12 now, right? the answer's tables still has boost data for door, old aigis, and shinji.

[late raptor]

lol you're joking

heartless feels like 3.0x crit multiplier on enemy side

no joke

[random basin]

maybe it's how they made metis gain more theurgy from shifts only from aigis, since i don't know how that's done

[random basin]

uhhh, i mean, unless they modified difficulty param too...

[late raptor]

vacuum slash dealing almost 400 damage does not sound like vanilla merciless

on enemy side

im still only 4 hours in but this dlc is significantly more balanced than reload base

[random basin]

there's a BP_BtlCalcParamAstrea for some metis-related things

that's great to hear. i was hoping from the start that they'd keep with the answer being more difficult. the only reason that worked so poorly in p3 fes was because the tactics system doesn't mesh super well with a challenge mode. and with no compendium.

[late raptor]

early game is early

but so far i had an easier time with fes

base reload was very good at tricking you into thinking it was balanced

[random basin]

i'd said before somewhere that the answer might be the best persona combat we get so far. but, yeah, i was also really satisfied with reload's balance until theurgy was introduced.

so, you know

[late raptor]

answer is designed with the theurgy in mind

like, it feels like it fits way more

chalk it up to it being directed by soul hackers 2's battle planner

[random basin]

hmm, i'll definitely have to be careful not to copy the exact same changes over and expect it to work in the answer, then

[late raptor]

the only thing i found to be funny so far is that the clock exists, but returning to the dorm also heals you for free

i get that losing arcana burst is supposed to be a punishment, but it's actually a reward in disguise due to some of the cards lol

[late raptor]

I'm genuinely considering doing the opposite

pulling from answer into journey, and lifting some of master quest's restrictions

[random basin]

oh, yeah, that would work too

[late raptor]

master quest's ruleset in the answer sounds awful im not even gonna sugarcoat it

[random basin]

let's just figure out exactly what those changes are

[late raptor]

endgame is probably way more chill/out of control ig

[random basin]

(and, i will be brutally frank and honest despite how much i do not want to tell other people how to make their mods, but i do think mq's heal/recovery item ban is excessive and changing item effects and scarcity is a better solution)

but you didn't hear that from me

[late raptor]

it had worked very well so far it only really filters unprepared players

[random basin]

oh, i mean, yeah, it's not that it's too hard, i mean

[late raptor]

revive is probably the only one i see value in reverting

[random basin]

yeah, it's stuff like that

it seems like bringing yukari and ken is extremely important

and then making sure to conserve their sp because you're screwed if they run out

[late raptor]

nah just dont die

[random basin]

...wait, shit, no, i am giving my unsolicited opinions on mods i have not even played. that was the thing i was supposed to not do.

[late raptor]

dont worry

still more level-headed feedback than some gb replies

[random basin]

it is not your forgiveness i care about, but my own hypocrisy and moral failing

[late raptor]

really hard to tell which feedback is legit and which feedback comes from people who don't even use buffs

[random basin]

the only feedback i've ever gotten that has ever, ever genuinely bothered me was when i saw one guy complain that it's awful the mod's idea of "difficulty" is just cutting the player's damage in half

but... it's the same as merciless, x0.60... it's not my fault...

very sad stuff

[late raptor]

oh shit i had the same kinda

they were complaining about a huge damage reduction that wasnt even real

like "my maximum damage is 20 wtf"

[random basin]

did you remove the big weak/crit multipliers from merciless?

[late raptor]

Yes, but it wasn't applicable in this specific situation

they were spamming Agi on a shadow that is not weak to fire

and were not trying any other element

[random basin]

oh, well, yeah, early game agi does about 20 damage

[late raptor]

im pretty sure 90% of people who quit got filtered by Priestess, it's huge shock therapy

i'll have to giga nerf her when i finish the answer

took me 3 hours of attempts and i was being semi-optimal, so ig that's fair

(lie, because i was on tactics)

[random basin]

these are the five difficulty settings i've more or less settled on, anyway. maybe not all perfect, but probably enough variety someone can find one they're comfortable with.

kinda hard -> merciless -> maniac -> maniac+ -> maniac++ door must die mode

[cold prairie]

at least they are better than base reload. Base Reload was too easy.

[random basin]

that was funny when i realized the x1.20 ailment accuracy on merciless was to offset the x0.80 enemy ailment accuracy, but also that they got the math wrong and it should be x1.25.

[random basin]

in my case, i did see a stream of someone just barely getting through the priestess with like 15 seconds remaining after multiple attempts

which sounds like, hey, mission accomplished, it should be like that on the hardest difficulty, but he never actually realized she's weak to fire, so...

maybe i have to buff her

[cold prairie]

she needs a slight buff, also the shadows you fight on that full moon need a slight nerf in my opinion.

[random basin]

noted

i guess it probably forces you to restart the whole operation if you die to them, huh. i probably should be more lenient with them.

[cold prairie]

yeah i had to restart at least 5 times. The kouha skill is a bit stronger than it should be in my opinion.

[random basin]

i might be able to make them boss fights that do trigger the retry option. the mod's kinda balanced around knowing that feature exists.

since there's no time limit while fighting them like the original, there's no real tension, so i thought a good idea would be to make them trickier than regular enemies. that way, you really feel the impact of junpei's screw-up while you're trying to fight with only yukari.

that nue you fight in p5 with only ryuji was cool

[cold prairie]

by the way a few months ago i asked help about a problem the mod had. and you told me to redownload i did and i still have it.

[random basin]

i still have copies of every old version. i always do that with projects, have clip studio paint projects from 5+ years ago still hidden away.

[cold prairie]

you said i was missing DatSkillNormalDataAsset.uasset. and that to fix it i had to delete and redownload the mod. i did and the problem still remains so how do i fix it ?

[random basin]

is the file there?

[cold prairie]

since the band ace item only healed and not revived with 35% health as you said no it ain't there.

[random basin]

click the mod in reloaded ii, click open folder, go to UnrealEssentials\P3R\Content\Xrd777\Battle\Tables, should in there. should be 11 uasset's in there, that one included.

[oblique egret]

I'll play The Answer vanilla then on Heartless thanks for saying that

[random basin]

if not, then, uh, here it is, i guess