GW arent as incompetent as they were in the past
#40k-lore-chat
storm jungle
green sedge
Yeah fair.
storm jungle
they're just cheapskates most of the time
cerulean wagon
so
green sedge
There has been improvement.
vast frigate
Yep
cerulean wagon
previously they were mega cheapskates
vast frigate
An example
vast frigate
Monopose models arent meant to be removing multipose
green sedge
God that was trash.
vast frigate
Theyre meant to cut costs
cerulean wagon
their new advertising drive they seem to have come forward with more confidense
and man
these animation reals
cerulean wagon
green sedge
That angels of death trailer I am 4 seconds in and I can tell they just used a cheap physics engine to model their ship breaking for them.
:|
vast frigate
yeah im not excited for angels of death
green sedge
It breaks into fucking big old chunks like it was made of plastic.
vast frigate
thats also cause i dont care for the blood bois but
storm jungle
Yeah like i liked helsreach
vast frigate
well there is 1 thing about uh, 40k ships you gotta remember
atleast for imperial ships
storm jungle
but god the motion capture stuff looks wacky af
vast frigate
like, 60% of the hull is adorned with rock and stone
storm jungle
Oh yeah thats the thing
vast frigate
Theyre literal flying cathedrals
storm jungle
they're using Battlefleet Gothic Models
vast frigate
The reason is LOOOOOOORRRREEEE
storm jungle
from the actual game along with the nids ships
vast frigate
yeah
like
the flying cathedrals protect us, because Cathedrals are the houses of the emperor and the emperor protects
green sedge
This is a hacked together student piece, not the trailer for a huge media property. Right?
Right?
green sedge
That was a game model.
green sedge
That space station was a game model.
cerulean wagon
i think because he got away with it after hellsreach
he thinks its okay as an art style
vast frigate
Hellsreach had it as an artstyle choice
cerulean wagon
heavy black and white with red accenting
vast frigate
it was meant to be gritty and hard to see
this is meant to be an official animation
storm jungle
God
like
a part of me hopes these all flop
so i can eat popcorn
and be a jerk as i laugh
cerulean wagon
on a side note
storm jungle
but another part of me hopes it succeeds
vast frigate
look all im gonna say is carameldansen and techmarines works
vast frigate
Thats what they need to do for an animation
storm jungle
So the deal with that is
GW arent Blizzard
aka they cant put millions of dollars to a coal furnace for good CGI shorts
as much as i wish they could
and remember that they are cheap af
so its rare we'll ever get a trailer like this
cerulean wagon
ye so the fun thing
green sedge
They can at least hire someone with an art degree and not make an intern do it with stolen assets.
cerulean wagon
GW are actualy, although big as a model company, not big as an actual company company
vast frigate
and the emperor restores them
cerulean wagon
branching out like this is a huge risk
however
in the last 3 years their stocks went up in value
after AoS they saw explosive growth, 700% iirc
green sedge
No I get that they aren't mega-bucks billionares I'm just saying there's such a thing in pretending you take pride in your product.
This is not reflecting that.
Literally animating things with videogame models is not a good look.
storm jungle
The best part of this animation is how you can tell the quality drop
the SoB and necrons are animated really well overall
but once the marines come in they move so smoothly and toy-like
but then again Astartes really did spoil us
cerulean wagon
i love the scarabs
cerulean wagon
storm jungle
vast frigate
tho, their gross winnings last year were like, only about 10% more than 2018
green sedge
Hey wait in this Angels of Death trailer, uh, one of those boarding craft straight up collides with a stationary piece of debris. What the actual fuck?
vast frigate
and then were still talking a few million in winnings
THOUGH
this has been their growth
cerulean wagon
storm jungle
bruh
vast frigate
let me get the sales statisitc
sec
their earnings went from 221 million to 256 million
green sedge
There's another scene a few seconds later where there are two of the same model of ship next to each other but they're different sizes. Where the fuck was the quality control on this?
Earnings, Elyksis
vast frigate
the quality control was done with forgeworld\
vast frigate
old but good
vagrant osprey
Ok, so, here's what we need: Somebody win the lotto and buy them out.
vast frigate
owo
green sedge
Hahaha yes
vagrant osprey
And then order them to not make bad decisions.
rancid perch
green sedge
24 you're like three hours too late for that one.
vagrant osprey
If I win the Powerball, I promise I will reveal that the Minotaurs were made by Belisarious Cawl to be the soldiers of a female Sensei.
green sedge
DO THAT
vast frigate
if i win the powerball i promise i will equalize all model releases
More models for every faction in proper
green sedge
No. Not Tau.
vagrant osprey
Lets not go crazy here, Elyksis.
vast frigate
well?
green sedge
i am alpharius
green sedge
Ok.
vast frigate
To be replaced with the Belisarian legion
vagrant osprey
Actually, winning the powerball would ensure I could make them publish a book.
green sedge
If it neutralizes the tau I'll take that trade.
vast frigate
nah
vagrant osprey
I could fire CS Goto!
vast frigate
the tau get the entire eastern front
green sedge
Wouldn't that make the salamanders real sad? You wouldn't wanna disappoint the Salamanders, would you? You big meanie. :(
vast frigate
nah they get the entire front to fight them
vagrant osprey
The eastern front is Smurfland.
final spruce
Make iG the poster boys and we good
green sedge
^^^^^^^^
green sedge
Ghosts as tabletop faction please.
final spruce
I also want a krieg supplement with plastic krieg
vagrant osprey
Actually, Imperium's eastern front collapsing in on itself due to the Tau pushing their Greater Good to cause mass revolts would be a nice followup for the whole noblebright bootyman crusade to deliver perfect merch to the chapters.
vast frigate
Yeah
green sedge
Brilliant. And you did say you're making the alpha legion disappear, yes?
final spruce
Isnt Ultramar to the far right south of the map ?
vagrant osprey
The Alpha Legion disappearing would just make everybody nervous.
green sedge
This is why I am ok with this plan.
vast frigate
final spruce
They are just a meme at this point
green sedge
But if they all just disappeared one day, it'd spook everyone.
final spruce
Yeah I was more thinking of that map
vast frigate
remember that the tau have a random spec of space
final spruce
Also shut up im tired
green sedge
So... what the hell is it that Magnus is currently supposed to be up to?
vast frigate
finding a cure for his sons
green sedge
Again?
green sedge
No but like... didn't Arhiman kinda fix that problem... to death? Or, dust, rather?
green sedge
So he's actually made progress.
vast frigate
well yes and no
Yvraine showed him what could be done
and then tore the spell away before he could study it
green sedge
Even a "partly yes" makes him the most productive daemon primarch in the galaxy.
vast frigate
or did she show Ahriman...
im not sure but magnus is pursuing the same spell basically
vagrant osprey
Magnus is the most productive Primarch in the galaxy.
Gilly has done a lot of stuff, but it's a real mixed bag.
vagrant osprey
Like 'em without depth perception? :V
vast frigate
i like em specific
green sedge
Ah. Wings. Gotcha.
vast frigate
nah
green sedge
:P
vast frigate
i just fall for people, not many times i go for looks
looks play a role but the personality matters big
green sedge
Oh, demi. Fair enough.
vast frigate
Mhm
green sedge
Sometimes I wonder if the Emperor made Omegon just to see how far the game of hide and seek could be elevated.
vagrant osprey
He was tired of 900IQ strats in Among Us and wanted to see some 90,000IQ strats.
azure laurel
wonder if they will bring back another primarch
azure laurel
how many are in chaos ? mortarion and .. ? not sure if abbadon is considered one
odd sparrow
Abaddon is just a chaos-suped-up regular astartes yeah, the actual primarch of his legion was horus and he got mind laser'd out of existence 10k years ago
currently all that's left is uh, fulgrim and perturabo i'm tempted to say? idk what the actual situation even is with the alpha legion's primarch, isn't it ambiguous whether either of them are still alive?
i'm defo missing at least one
azure laurel
yeah unfortunantly its impossible to get horus back
i heard about angron and johson
odd sparrow
Oh yeah also angron and lorgar, who are both chilling in the warp rn iirc
I'm hoping for rogal dorn tbh, but I love imp fists so i'm biased there
azure laurel
well im new at this so not sure what happened to most of the chapters
odd sparrow
Most of that is covered in the horus heresy, which now numbers like over a dozen separate novels. There's a lot to cover
azure laurel
indeed . not sure if they survived without theyr primarch. not even sure if its possible to create new ones either.
odd sparrow
the like, actually definitely dead primarchs are ferrus manus (iron hands), sanguinius (blood angels) on the loyalist side and horus on the traitor side, most of the rest are somehow missing and can come back
azure laurel
was talking about the chapters but now seeing game workshop site they appear to have
wasnt corvus dead too ?
odd sparrow
Worth noting that there's actually two separate types of space marine groups. Originally they were organized into 18 legions of about 10,000 soldiers each, each of them led by their primarch (who is also the DNA template for their entire legion). It's impossible to create new legions, cus that requires creating new primarchs and that's not really possible without the Emperor. After the horus heresy they were reorganized into chapters, which are much smaller groups of about 1000 headed by a chapter master, who is just a regular space marine
you can make as many chapters as you like but there were a finite number of legions
I don't think so? iirc corvus is in the stuck in the warp probably category
azure laurel
so they are all lost and dont want to return ?
yes but the factions could have been split after they primarch dead / lost ? dont know . dont even know theyr strenghts since in game workshop its the same figures for all th chapters
odd sparrow
It depends. Corvus is all warp mutated and weird, he's pretty much focused on killing lorgar as revenge for the drop site massacre iirc
some other primarchs may want to return for whatever reason, though. It's all v ambiguous
The legions were split into chapters. e.g. the Legion of the Imperial Fists was split into the chapter of the imperial fists, but also the crimson fists, black templars etc
azure laurel
how can a mutated be alive ? xD
yeah thats why its so hard for me to choose a chapter in the game
wasnt one who wanted to die like all the time ? not sure if corvus
odd sparrow
You're probs thinking of Vulkan. He's the primarch who is effectively immortal and has died several times
Can always make your own chapter up, homebrew chapters are very common
azure laurel
hum.. but it had to be guided by a codex somehow
no , im pretty sure i read about one that had a suicide wish.
vulkan would be cool to see
primal tide
It depends. Corvus is all warp mutated and weird
Hes not mutated- he's just gained more control over his nature given primarchs are warpstuff jammed inside flesh
the like, actually definitely dead primarchs are ferrus manus (iron hands), sanguinius (blood angels) on the loyalist side and horus on the traitor side, most of the rest are somehow missing and can come back
Curze is dead, as well as alpharius (hur hur inb4 meme)
no , im pretty sure i read about one that had a suicide wish.
Also curze, he essentially dies by suicide to prove his fatalistic ideology correct (via an assassin)
vast frigate
Vulkan is a perpeptual
Means he can die as many times as you want him to, but hell always come back
thick shadow
Vulkan comes back with his newest flaming weapons for his childrens, and burn down to purge all the primaris and knife ears!
gray trellis
Emperor Text-to speech: How are the vulcans?
Custode: Well, they are black now
Emperor Text-to speech: Hey, no racism!
Custode: No, really, they turned black...literally, coal black
vast frigate
So, we know that eldar and humans sometimes mix
that means theres half knife ears out there
final spruce
You mean the one guy that was retconned ?
vagrant osprey
There are no canonical human/eldar hybrids. All the ones that existed back in RT have been retconned.
final spruce
Especially Illian
storm jungle
Clearly we need more
final spruce
This issue has been solved since humans and eldars have been made uncompatible cuz dna
green sedge
There haven't been half-knife-ears since the Olden Days, during the Terrible Mistakes.
storm jungle
idk guys
green sedge
Plus Eldar lay eggs.
final spruce
That's heresy
vagrant osprey
vagrant osprey
^
green sedge
Big E tapped Eldar booty like it was going out of style.
green sedge
Uh, no?
vagrant osprey
Thronebutt spent basically the entire time from space travel to Old Night whoring it up with the Eldar
final spruce
Really now ?
vagrant osprey
Err... The Emperor was pretty explicit about "Compliant Xenos"
green sedge
^^^
vagrant osprey
Like, "As long as they aren't acting against humanity, they're fine"
vagrant osprey
During the Great Crusade he actually met with Eldar and stuff.
final spruce
Which books ? Because i'd be interested in reading about it
vagrant osprey
Shit, the golden throne is made of xenotech
green sedge
Eldar xenotech.
green sedge
Then you surely know about him meeting with what's his ears. Eldrad?
Or however you spell it. The poncy one.
final spruce
I knew with Gulliman meeting with Eldrad
With Gulliman being mentionned as being almost 100% fluent in Eldar
But not Big E
green sedge
Kind of yeah
buoyant crypt
why you gotta diss em like that
storm jungle
look i like elves ok
buoyant crypt
they just angsty
storm jungle
but it was too good of an oppoturnity to pass up bruv
vagrant osprey
Eldrad was one of Big E's old friends. He warned him that the Great Crusade would end in disaster because that's what his precognition said. That's why E told Horus to handle the crusade and he went home.
final spruce
I do'nt really like Eldars aswell
But more in the fact that they caused alot of shit
final spruce
And were given at birth alot of stuff
storm jungle
angry typing
green sedge
No no, the Eldar as a fictional species are cool and fascinating and stuff... they're just... not very novel.
Except the part where they lay eggs, that's pretty neat.
final spruce
I mean aeldari
storm jungle
Aelves
vagrant osprey
That wasn't "Bootyman talking to Some Xeno Scum", that was "Bootyman talking with one of his dad's old buddies"
storm jungle
green sedge
Aelves. Yes.
green sedge
Didn't Eldrad warn Big E that the crusade was gonna go seriously south?
storm jungle
aside from how Eldrad tried to warn Fulgrim and they Jojo'd each other
green sedge
Ah, fair, I might've been confused.
I was under the impression that Eldrad and Mr. Humanface met for super secret tea this one time and Eldrad was like "dude you gotta stop this crusading thing it goes real bad" and the Emperor was like "oh ok I'll just have my best son Horus do the crusading while I dip out."
Buuuut maybe I imagined that?
vagrant osprey
I thought that happened?
green sedge
To be fair that was a tidbit I was informed of, before I was actually seriously into 40k myself.
So I have no clue where it'd even be from.
It does sound like a thing he'd do, but eh. Yeah. The Emperor was never going around purging Eldar on purpose, though there were multiple engagements between Eldar and Crusade forces.
storm jungle
So basically this is unconfirmed?
green sedge
Dilara basically everything I posit is unconfirmed unless I'm making a point of referencing something.
Except the ๐ฅ thing.
vagrant osprey
"Before the Fall of Cadia, Eldrad was over 10,000 Terran years old, and was the first to warn the Imperium of Man of the Warmaster Horus' treachery."
vagrant osprey
"However, it was the primarch of the Emperor's Children Legion Fulgrim he warned, and not the Emperor of Mankind, only later discovering during their meeting on the Aeldari Maiden World of Tarsus that he had made a terrible mistake and that Fulgrim had already been corrupted by exposure to a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh."
Profoundly precognitive, but also super dumb.
green sedge
Ooooh, ok, he had tea with the molesty one. And didn't notice the Slaaneshi influence. Despite being an Aelf.
storm jungle
Yeah its in the horus heresy novels
green sedge
How would a farseer not notice the influence of Slaanesh? Nobody knows. Not like it's a hugely important part of their entire culture or anything.
Thank you GW. Very consistent.
green sedge
Yeeeahhh.
storm jungle
Like how Fulgrim's entire creation process was so he could fall to slaanesh
Hes literally griffith from Berserk
green sedge
"This has to happen so that we can have novels backing up the throwaway lines in the codex and make it all add up."
"Wait, we're writing entire books badly so that individual lines nobody cared a ton about make marginally more sense?"
"Yes."
storm jungle
The best part is
when he says fulgrim is corrupted
Fulgrim is like "whats chaos"
Eldrad's entire reaction is
primal tide
Lmao
green sedge
:|
vagrant osprey
The Emperor is really bad at telling people things
storm jungle
green sedge
Even has the big ears.
vagrant osprey
"The best defense against chaos for somebody who is going to have to literally fistfight demons is knowing absolutely nothing about chaos." ~The Emperor, probably.
green sedge
Ha!
storm jungle
Its like the Empire with the skaven
sure was great when the skaven attacked en masse and nobody knew what the hell to do
green sedge
"Lalala can't hear you talking about rat men they're not a thing!"
vagrant osprey
GW was going to put the Skaven in 40k, but then they realized the Imperium is already the Skaven.
storm jungle
LOL
green sedge
O o f
green sedge
huffs some w a r p s t o n e for a quick rush
vagrant osprey
HERESY-HERESY!
green sedge
That'd be an amazing easter egg for Darktide though. If there was an optional mode where you are suddenly straight up fighting VT2 Skaven units.
They've got the assets.
green sedge
Ratling gunners are just IG weapons teams that haven't shaved.
green sedge
It'd make a lot of sense if Pointman from the trailer is just warp-displaced Kruber...
vagrant osprey
If Pointman is Kruber then he's gonna live.
He just holes up somewhere with his sword and board and shouts at you to "get the bloody witch-hunter here!"
green sedge
Everyone assumes he means the inquisitor. He doesn't.
vagrant osprey
Saltz x Kruber OTP
green sedge
Hmm. Human, human, psyker, aelf, squat... hey, uh... what if they straight up just port the whole squad?
mellow depot
it would be good
green sedge
Like it'd almost work.
vagrant osprey
Can't. One's an Ogryn
green sedge
I thought that picture was art from a couple years ago they just coopted.
I was under the impression it predated the game.
And was thus not super accurate.
Is that not the case?
rotund siren
I didn't hear anything like that
but that doesn't mean your wrong
maybe I just wasn't looking
primal tide
If I can't play as a good natured confused grumpy ogryn I will fucking riot
green sedge
Picture doesn't seem to have a signature and they didn't attribute the artist in the contest.
And if they did attribute an artist, then I have some questions for them. Like why the same pattern of void ship appears multiple times but not only is it in low atmosphere it's also in the same picture as multiple different sizes. Did they realize that the Empire has more than one ship design?
And did they not think about the fact that a moon appearing that large in the sky means that it's hours away from colliding with the planet?
That bit still bugs me. Only way you get sky objects that size is if you are already gravitationally doomed.
rotund siren
but it looks cool
so they do it
and hey, maybe the planet has some weird atmosphere that magnifies stuff
maybe it's warp-shenanigans
maybe it's marmelade
we'll never know
green sedge
No, we'll know if an hour and a half into the campaign the sky is falling and the planet is doomed.
Plus that's not how atmospheric magnification works. Optics has rules. This is well outside of them.
And if it was marmalade it would be orange.
Looking cool is not an excuse to do a bad job.
final spruce
So in the end, there is no book with Big E sympathizing with eldars ?
green sedge
Oh, he sympathiszes with them he just doesn't sit down for tea with Eldrad.
final spruce
Any small novels or books reflecting that ?
green sedge
So... since you ask that literally every time lore comes up, I'm getting the impression that you don't do a lot of 40k reading.
And I am not a reference library.
And this is not a research paper.
If you want to call into question the fact that the Emperor got on fine with Eldar, then go ahead. But the prevailing canon impression is that he got on more than fine with Eldar for something like fifteen thousand years.
final spruce
I have read some books and novels but I always ask for reference since some people can do msitakes etc
Or I just like having books given to me so I can read em on free time
And I only asked that twice Clocks
green sedge
Six times by my count but ok.
Thing is, there's fuck-all in terms of central referencing and timeline tracking. There's sort of this distinct impression I get reading HH stuff in particular that, like, at no point did GW or BL ever sit the authors down and make sure they actually knew what the lore/timeline/backstory/fluff was before setting them loose to write. This is particularly noteworthy in, for example, how the Emperor is portrayed. Not just his looks (and I mean his actual looks, which multiple characters can see through his permanent illusion, before anyone bitches about it being viewer dependent), but how he acts, what his attitudes and goals and agendas are, and for a less focused thing, magic. Warpcraft. Witchery. Whatever you call it, it is burningly obvious that no two authors ever sat down and made sure that the fucking magic they're using makes sense from one to another. In some books it is just fine to throw fucking lightning around. In others it takes massive concentration and focus just to mind trick someone. For psykers of equivalent rating. And in some books, it's this weird thaumaturgic ritualistic thing where names have power and narratives are tangible things, while in others it's this raw emotional thing that there is no true structure or ritual for beyond the moment.
vast frigate
Re asking to be sure isn't bad
Remember that questions are asked with a reason please.
To a certain degree of logic ofcourse
green sedge
So there's no fucking way to point to a thing and be like "here, this proves it". That's not a real option.
Asking to be given proof in a system where the very concept of proving a thing is sharply limited at best is just pedantic and irritating.
green sedge
And at worst intellectually dishonest.
vast frigate
Oh right on that point, an expansion, the emperor states that xenos should be avoided as their goals always differ from that of humanity, but purging them isnt a need. However, since most xenos dont want humanity in their way.... Purge the xenos is a thing
That and fanatics scream the loudest
vagrant osprey
Their goals differ, but aren't always incompatible
green sedge
Hence Crusade forces fighting Eldar despite Big E personally holding no grudge.
vast frigate
Definitely pseudo
final spruce
Most of the xeno purge was done after Lorgar's book became the new Imperial laws right ?
vast frigate
But since the emperor has stated the main birthright of mankind is the galaxy and beyond....
Well.....
final spruce
They did took abhumans and even used them in military
vagrant osprey
Almost all purging was done after Lorgar poisoned the Imperium.
final spruce
Looking at 30k minis
green sedge
Yeeeahh Big E didn't do them any favors and Lorgar's work made it worse.
vast frigate
Pretty much lorgars dumb book sparked a fire that was reaching its blaze anyway
green sedge
Lorgar always made everything worse.
vast frigate
Erebus is the bastard tho
vast frigate
Remember every primarch had a goal
final spruce
I'm still a bit angry about French's Perty
green sedge
Angron did not have a goal.
vast frigate
Guilliman was supposed to be the perfect administrator
Angron humanities salvation
Magnus the throne bearer
He did.
final spruce
Like other authors of Horus Heresy managed to make him appear in a decent light, French mainly shows the man-child aspect and limits himself to that
vast frigate
Angron takes away pain from those arounr him
final spruce
Thatw as his power yes
green sedge
With an axe. >.>
vast frigate
He was literally meant to make humanity painless
vast frigate
In SoN he is explained to should have been become humanities salvation
Slave of Nuceria)
green sedge
Seriously why the fuck didn't the Emperor just personally beam down and fight side by side with Angron to win the day and secure his slightly defective son's eternal loyalty? It would have been easy...
vast frigate
He didn't want to risk triggering some instakill device
vast frigate
Anything that triggers with a tap of the button
green sedge
He's the galaxy's biggest psychic badass.
vast frigate
It was meant to save angron, not keep himself safe
green sedge
There's nothing that could possibly have actually threatened his life.
vast frigate
Angron couldve died.
green sedge
Angron's death would not have been a great loss.
vast frigate
If he hadnt been tarnished by the nails it wouldve been
green sedge
But he was so it wouldn't have.
final spruce
During the Slave uprising
vast frigate
The emperor only knew what the nails did after he came aboard
So
He hoped angron wasnt tarnished and beyond saving
green sedge
Yeah he finds out in Master of Mankind. The "broken puppet" scene.
vast frigate
Angron without the nails would have been one of the most civilian friendly men evee
He wouldve become akin to vulkan and sangui
green sedge
Up there with Vulcan, maybe. But that's not what we got.
final spruce
I mean Vulkan is pretty gentle, until he meets eldars
vast frigate
Yeaaaah
final spruce
Little marshmallows
vast frigate
Then its hammer time
green sedge
What we got was one of the most catastrophically botched interpersonal relationship establishments in Warhammer fiction and the guy making this massive fuckup is supposed to be a 900 IQ super-empath.
That is shitty writing and bad baseline checking.
That is hitting the story with a hammer to make it fit old lore.
That is objectively bad.
The Emperor's hands got glued to the idiot ball on that one.
vagrant osprey
No, no, no. That happened AFTER he had his humanity excised so he could gain phenomenal cosmic power.
He was antipathic at that point.
final spruce
The Emperor was never described as an empathetic man
green sedge
Which makes no sense for a psyker but is how that got portrayed so... eh.
final spruce
Remember his sons are his tools
final spruce
He did have his favourite
green sedge
No like literally he had the psyker ability to read the emotions of others. He wasn't a caring individual, but you can't claim he was blind to others' feelings when he literally had a magic power to automatically know others' feelings.
final spruce
Or you mean Angron's power of taking away pain ?
green sedge
I mean that the Emperor has the power to know the mental states of those nearby and he for some reason fails to use them when it matters most every gods damned time.
The authors very obviously were never in agreement about who and what this character was.
final spruce
That's the issue with having multiple authors and not giving them basic lore I guess
Because I've read interviews of French saying him and the others authors did communicate alot between them when it came to writing lore
green sedge
Yeah. But they obviously never agreed on many of the fundamental basics.
I mean, fuck, there's a scene in one book (can't remember the name, don't care) where some random Wolf Priest is talking about how gellar fields were powered by human psykers, even though gellar fields existed for about 13,000 years before there were human psykers.
So characters are wrong about basic lore even in-universe.
barren tapir
GW is trying to standarize all lore, i'm guessing that they saw what books and the lore in general can do and are trying to solve all the old problems of conflicts
green sedge
Yeah but they did a shit job of it.
barren tapir
Also, there is a hint about an half eldar
That is not retconnected as far as i know
storm jungle
Only 10 years old as well from the looks of it
barren tapir
Well, those are rumors that she is half eldar
green sedge
Don't even- Look, you missed the bit this morning where we went over in some decent detail how that half knife ears garbage is not actually referenced anywhere ever except in relatively shaky old sources.
Besides, Eldar lay eggs.
barren tapir
Oh no, i read all messages, i didn't miss anything... Egg worshipper
green sedge
๐ฅ
final spruce
The Eggperium returns...
vagrant osprey
Salombar's exotic appearance led to rumors that she had Eldar blood in her veins: she possessed long, bright-blue hair, and almond-shaped eyes of a striking violet colour. Honsou reflected that she could be considered quite beautiful.
green sedge
Only a worshipper in that I'd do a lot to have one scrambled. >.>
storm jungle
Get outta here lore purist
vagrant osprey
Also:
Kaarja Salombar was Corsair Queen of the pirate band that formed one of the largest contingents of the Bloodborn warband of Warsmith Honsou and the Daemon Prince M'kar before the Invasion of Ultramar in 854999.M41
storm jungle
Get the sticks boyz
final spruce
Don't forget that it is common in Deldar culture to punish someone by turning it into a human or giving it human traits
storm jungle
barren tapir
Get outta here lore purist
It that for me? No, because i don't consider myslef a lore pursit... I mean, i have my headcanon where there is a human indipendent civ that use stealth tech and look from the shadow the IoM
vagrant osprey
Once daemon princes get involved you can kinda ignore things like biology. Chaos doesn't even need things to be in biologically valid states.
final spruce
Warp stuff
barren tapir
Don't forget that it is common in Deldar culture to punish someone by turning it into a human or giving it human traits
Yeah, one of the most feared haemonculi cabals or however they call their group
storm jungle
Haemonculi covens are wack
green sedge
"Hey kids wanna get some soul extensions?"
green sedge
"How about it? Just two fingers a year. Don't even gotta be your fingers."
barren tapir
"Hey kids wanna get some soul extensions?"
What soul? Oh, yeah
storm jungle
: )
final spruce
You means the small remnants being slowly eaten by Slaneesh ?
storm jungle
Idk dude dark eldar are like cockroaches
you cant even kill them to the last man
now with chaos shenanigans? totally possible
green sedge
... But maybe if we gave the Deathwatch some bugspray...
storm jungle
Its why vect is scared as hell of Khaine's Gate
green sedge
Hey if there was a "stable" and "sealed" warp gate in what amounts to my basement I'd be constantly terrified.
storm jungle
I love how vect also played lesser kabals right around it as a "reward"
what a twat lol
vagrant osprey
I want some enterprising young Inquisitor to have some Daemonettes smuggled into Commoragh.
green sedge
Heh. yeah he's great.
primal tide
And orkz
storm jungle
Jokes aside though none of those cant do much
unless we're talking a demonic legion
primal tide
What if tuska just busts in with his big boyz
storm jungle
Now that would be some good stuff
primal tide
High on khorne juice
green sedge
Eh. A few daemonettes in the Big Rotten Apple would be enough to get at least a sixteenth of it blown the fuck up by the absolutely horrified rest of them.
storm jungle
Well it did get invaded by plague marines once
the city was in chaos (badum tsss) before Vect put a lid on it
vagrant osprey
Pfft, those are plague marines.
primal tide
"ugh we'll never get the smell out"
vagrant osprey
Daemonettes are tiny bits of She Who Thirsts, and Commoragh has so many fun drinkables.
green sedge
Invading Commoragh is... not that difficult. The place is leaky. If it wasn't, it'd fill up with all the weird Deldar fluids.
final spruce
I think, because of all the slaves, bile and smell when you open a corpse, I think Commorogh isn't the best smelling city
storm jungle
Again they cant do much tho
the worst part of dark eldar is they unite against common causes
especially with their bullshit arsenal
green sedge
I love their bullshit arsenal.
green sedge
Yeah. Why's that a thing? No clue. But it's a thing!
vagrant osprey
The venn diagram of Drukari weapons and Drukari sex toys is just a circle.
green sedge
Heh
primal tide
It's actually just a jokaero digital weapon
But deldar can't conceive of a ring that doesn't go on your dick
storm jungle
And spikes
green sedge
Ok so... is it supposed to be canon that Eldar don't poop? Because if they don't have butts then it might actually be possible that most Deldar weapons haven't been in a butt.
But if they do, then I'm betting every Deldar weapon has been in a butt. At least one.
final spruce
I do have a list of all the weapons they use
storm jungle
Im pretty sure they use restrooms
the problem is
GW's attention towards details like daily life of other races and sexual stuff is reminiscent of a kindergartener
as in "ewww nobody needs to know that"
primal tide
Cloaca
green sedge
Though they're quick to give everything tits.
green sedge
"covered".
storm jungle
but your daemonic guts and intestines hanging out is fine
green sedge
Some are covered by hair.
final spruce
You say that yet we don't have any female IG models
final spruce
It's Forge World
green sedge
They just look the same.
final spruce
Its different
primal tide
Also that one buff catachan lady
storm jungle
yeah those special sculpts dont count
final spruce
Severina Raine, forgot about her
storm jungle
its just a "here a chick now shut up about female heads
verbal nest
So lemme get this straight, exterminatus is one big payload that impacts the planet
And then it bursts into a frickin tonne of smaller missiles that also bombard the surface?
green sedge
Male and female kriegsmen are effectively identical in outline. Half of them are female. They do not differentiate in who they send to the front lines.
primal tide
Exterminated comes in several flavors
Virus bomb is a combined attack with lots of shells
storm jungle
green sedge
Exterminatus is carried out by several different methods and none of them respect physics.
verbal nest
Virus bomb is not the same as what Horus did?
final spruce
Nurgle would be proud
storm jungle
and v-bombs are going out of fashion in the imperium too
cerulean wagon
vortex torpedos where its at
green sedge
I like how most Exterminatus methods are actually less impactful than extinction events that Earth has had life live through.
Like, none of them are very effective.
primal tide
Virus bomb is hella effective
green sedge
Even puncturing the crust of a planet and exposing the mantle will not wipe out life on that planet. We know this because it happened on Earth multiple times.
So... no, not really.
Anything fire resistant and/or buried would be fine.
primal tide
๐ค
storm jungle
Im pretty sure thats addressed in lore but for virus bombs
exterminatus, not too 100% on
green sedge
Also, how the hell are you supposed to light an atmosphere on fire? Like, if atmospheres could burn, then coronal mass ejection events which bathe them in plasma would ignite them. They do not. So obviously you cannot burn an atmosphere.
final spruce
Grimderp moments
green sedge
It's seriously child logic. "What's the scariest thing? Oh I know what if the sky was on fire!"
storm jungle
the adeptus mechanicus did that too LOL
primal tide
Child logic is winning galactic war with foot soldiers using melee weapons
Yet here we are
green sedge
^
primal tide
You have to ignore some of that stuff for the basic rules of the setting to work
Debating them is pointless
green sedge
Debating them is the specific variety of fun I am here for.
If you want to crack a planet, drop a rock on it.
verbal nest
Grimderp moments
๐ญ
primal tide
My go to is how could you ever cleanse a planet of ork contamination short of burning the whole planet to ash
They're a fungus, the spores are literally going to be everywhere for all time
vagrant osprey
You know, they actually DID drop a rock on a planet back in the great crusade.
green sedge
"Planet's got orks. Guess we've gotta fight forever."
vagrant osprey
Because Exterminatus fails against STC protected worlds. :V
primal tide
Sounds like an orky move
Orksterminatus
storm jungle
Attack Moonz were the shit back in the day
cerulean wagon
@primal tide that ork thing is an actual lore point lol
orks are never gone once they are infested on a planet
they have recursions and stuff
final spruce
Let us be thankful that they are not from the cordiceps variant
green sedge
Weirdboys
๐ ๐ ๐
final spruce
Thats fantasy
Sadly we don't have any supplements or more love for gretchins and grots
storm jungle
Gretchings are goblings
green sedge
That is sad.
barren tapir
Orks use rocks to destroy planets, Macharius used a redirected comet to destroy adrantis five... Exterminatus by big rock is one of the most used type probably
green sedge
As it should be. The missile and bombardment based approaches are orders of magnitude short of sufficient to actually sterilize a world.
final spruce
Its also alot of ressources used for 1 planet
primal tide
i mean, it sterilized isstvan of loyalists with the exception of 2 of them
crisp heath
while immodest to expose organs
primal tide
thats at least 99.9% effective
crisp heath
such as your heart or your intestines
I still do find it more modest than showin boobies
primal tide
good enough for any general purpose sterilizer
crisp heath
really tho
primal tide
#cerberus
crisp heath
plague demons need to stop dressing in such a slutty manner with how they display their guts to everyone
vast frigate
i have to say
some of my faveorite lore is the titans that bother themselves with defending guardsmen and space marines
Theres a titan that stood over a trench position and shielded it with its body as the artillery bombarded their position
final spruce
Damn void shields man
storm jungle
@vast frigate Where! ๐
vast frigate
its in an older titan book
i cant for the life of me remember
no zherlum, its void shields were down
they stood over the trench and facetanked the shells
storm jungle
A caring titan pilot is the first time im hearing this
when their role in a story is usually "Deploy in (location) and shoot (enemy faction)"
final spruce
With the new lore I do not know if its something we'd see happen again
final spruce
They are called Knight houses so some may still have that chivalrous spirit but I suppose most of them see normal people contempt, as do most nobles in 40k
vast frigate
There are a few titan houses that feel like not using your feelings is wrong
if they will survive the upcoming fights, thats a question
final spruce
They are called Knights for a reason I guess
primal tide
i loved the depiction of them in mechanicum
the conflict between the houses and the bros in their titans
final spruce
I like the part about Titans developping their own identity and absorbing some of the driver's
Makes me rememebr the old Rogue Trader lore about Old ships having their own personnality... I mean Machine Spirit
I know some vehicles like Manticores do
primal tide
yeah theres been some vehicles that end up straight up raging and performing completely autonomously after the men inside have died
Ive seen at least two lore excerpts with that happening and it is awesome
vast frigate
most ships have full ai
primal tide
the motive force comes together with the machine spirit to do the work of the omnissiah
vast frigate
its just unaccesible
an example is the Ark mechanicus ships
Theyre driven by an ai core, but nobody knows its there, they just believe the ship has a supremely active machine spirit
primal tide
there have to be plenty high up in the mechanicus that know enough to figure out what is in there but turn a blind eye
final spruce
I wonder of some surviving men of Iron, apart from our big boi from BSF still roam the land
primal tide
they must
final spruce
We know of 1
primal tide
yeah, if 1 has made it there are definitely more out there
final spruce
it'd be interesting
Because from the book and smalll novels + descriptions, we learn that X-101 doesn't hold a grudge against Humanity and is jsut out there seeking answers as of why and how he is able to think for himself unlike other machines
storm jungle
Honestly its not that hard to believe more are out there
final spruce
And this is why he wants to study the Blackstone Fortress, because for him, its something that calls upon him because of the familiarity
storm jungle
considering the way our blackstone fortress bot acts they just are smart enough to hide from the inhabitants of the galaxy
final spruce
Dude is just looking for answers and is willing to fight alongside humanity
storm jungle
Hes basically Bastion
vagrant osprey
Meanwhile, the Sperenza is just sandbagging because it knows it'll be murdered if anybody figured out it existed.
final spruce
X-101 knows he'd be murdered on sight but he understands why
That's why I find him interesting
vagrant osprey
UR-025 is looking for answers. He'll kill anybody who finds out his secret, but I'm pretty sure he's literally a braintaped person.
final spruce
He understands that, as a robnot he was made to serve Humankind
Wait, wrong book
braintaped ?
He seems able to think for himself and making himself appear like a robot from the Imperium
vagrant osprey
Braintape. It's an ancient term for an AI that's a literal copy of an organic being.
Upload is the more common term these days.
final spruce
That's a very specific vocabualr, especially for a not native speaker
vagrant osprey
Ah, my appologies.
vagrant osprey
Point is, UR-025 almost definitely has memories of being a human.
final spruce
i'm not sure of that, you know waht, Ima read it again and search for when they speaka bit about him in the Book
Because he has a very small passage as seen by Draik from the outside
I reread the ppassage
It just says he acts like he is here to collect data from a Magos and he is searching the technology of the Fortress to understand himself better
final spruce
The only thing I can read is on sheet saying "What can I do for you ?"
vagrant osprey
He's talked about people he knew, friends he lost, and how he's often lonely.
final spruce
Time to search the big book then
Maybe in one of the expansions then
But I know he is barely mentionned there
vagrant osprey
Ah, correction: UR-025 almost definitely has memories of being organic. That does not necessarily mean he was human.
final spruce
Oh shit
vagrant osprey
A short story about UR-025
final spruce
I wasn't aware this book existed
Only book I had about Blackstone Fortress is the one big book made by Darius Hinks
Yeah, UR-025 is only mentionned when the party is running away from Bullgryns enforcers after they found Vorne and the Priest Thaddeus
Ah yes
Ur-025 did make me think about of Kastelan robots
Thanks Pseudo for the nice read
"Kolemun peered about. โItโs unpredictable. I donโt like unpredictability. I donโt like this place.โ
It does not like you very much either, thought UR-025. I do not like you either."
Damn, UR-025
final spruce
About Blackstone Fortress ?
final spruce
There are alot of em from what I see
Mostly short stories
I might get ascension
Especially If they have Gotfred described in there
And that Augur of Despair one
verbal nest
Are there any servo skulls with actual authority/power
final spruce
Only one I can think of , and he is more of an advisor is the one in Mechanicus
Servo is in their name, after all, can't expect a servitor to have a highr ank
crisp heath
Has plenty of power if you chuck it hard enough at a heretic
odd sparrow
tbh what even are servo skulls
formal saffron
Living robots, to put it simply
odd sparrow
When they talk is that just some servitor-ish nonsense with the brain still being intact inside the skull? Is it just [[assorted machine spirit fuckery]]
formal saffron
Because AI is heretical
odd sparrow
oh so they're just servitors with all the fleshy bits inside the cranium?
odd sparrow
makes sense
final spruce
It's half brain half machine inside yes
And, weirdly, servo-skulls are usually a form of honor
Its usually people that did great deeds when they were alive that are turned into servo-skulls
A platoon commander that was decent could easily be made into one when he dies
azure laurel
how is the planetaryy domination atm ? does imperium control most of the systems?
final spruce
Indeed
vagrant osprey
The more valuable they were the more of the brain they leave in. It's more difficult to make a servo-skull with an almost-intact brain, but there are some which are far more person-like than they should be.
odd sparrow
that makes sense
final spruce
They are a kind of servitor you do not want to lobotimze as much as possible since they were renowned people of sort
And are very useful
storm jungle
Well that depends
renowned or not, its their skull that reflects that
not the brain being kept intact
final spruce
For Example there is a Tempestus relic that is essentially a servo-skull of one of the greatest general and it still gives counsel and orders, to a point where It will disagree with the Tempestor Prime in charge and contest the orders given
It's called the Reliquary of Tyberius
primal tide
That's bad ass
I AM SUPREME
green sedge
TBH a servoskull with Lore of Metal would be pretty great.
vagrant osprey
There's also the Servoskull in Mechanicus that is 100% not at all lobotomized.
green sedge
"But I am already saved."
green sedge
^(to floppy disk.)
median sundial
Do you think that Orks use super glue to build their ships when they run out of bolts and welding fuel?
crisp heath
NUFFIN' CAN SCHTOP ME ORK BOYZ! GETEM LADZ
this message brought to you by 
: WHEZ YA DAKKA NOW, SPACE MARINE
OIM GRIMSKULL, AND OI APPROVE DIS MESSIDGE
barren tapir
So, who know something about the 4th quadrant rebellion?
green sedge
Is Armageddon like... Ork paradise? They know they can always get a good fight there, right?
barren tapir
Yeah, ork think of armageddon as a valhalla, where they can always find a good fight, its original name was ulanor, which seems to be a really important world for the orks, since it was also were the emperor, helped by horus, defeated one of the largest, if not the largest, waaaagh ever
IIRC it was also the where horus and big E saved eachothers lifes
green sedge
SO yeah, Ork Valhalla confirmed. Awesome.
thick shadow
And if remember right, Horus "awaited" to Big-E got into the trouble.
thick shadow
The 30k as a mini, I love it. But as a make more detail in old days? No.
I miss good ol' Man-Emperor of Mankind
Not the psychopath or sociopath or something
muted pewter
i have an important question
where the fuck is Vulkan
hid some stuff
is a terrible way to go vocation
final spruce
It's writtings by Vulkan himself that essentially sends his space marines into a big tresor hunt game for his 9 best artefacts he has ever made
And legends say that, if you reunite all of em, Vulkan will come to greet you because you won his friendly game
What a lad
rotund siren
hey, what's the name of the Adeptus Mechanicus who actually do stuff with flesh?
like, doing biological stuff
instead of being all machine-y
vagrant osprey
Vulkan is almost certainly fighting for Humanity.
gray trellis
xddd
vagrant osprey
@rotund siren Do you mean the Magos Biologis?
atomic pelican
Vulkan got lost burning up xeno children
Don't worry, he'll be back for more promethium at some point.
vagrant osprey
They research genetics and biology, and include the top surgeons of the mechanicus.
kind dove
They often poke around inside xenos
vagrant osprey
Aun: Vulkan doesn't have the same hate for xenos that other primarchs have.
atomic pelican
Wasn't it him and the salamanders that torched exodite kids?
Or am I remembering that wrong
vagrant osprey
First: It was one kid
vagrant osprey
Second: The eldar had ambushed him and killed one of his close friends.
Third: The other Eldar had surrendered, and this punk kid came up and interrupted the surrender to challenge him.
vagrant osprey
I can't remember if it was exodite or just eldar
atomic pelican
Idk if the correct call there is napalm sticks to kids
But I'm just ribbing it's funny
vagrant osprey
And IIRC they had been having humans worship them as gods?
atomic pelican
Not 100% sure
vagrant osprey
And the kid HAD been part of the group that attacked Vulkan.
atomic pelican
I think they were helping the humies and the humies started worshipping them, and then the Salamanders came to stop it
Thus the invasion
Then they like, scorched the planet of life
Space marine lore isn't really my forte though so you're probably more on the money than I
green sedge
Eh. I sorta give him a pass for being by a large margin the least murderous primarch.
atomic pelican
For sure
green sedge
Followed by maybe... Dorn?
atomic pelican
Salamanders are probably my 2nd favorite chapter, before Space Wolves because viking aesthetic
Now riddle me this, who's the most murderous primarch?
atomic pelican
lul
vagrant osprey
Second place is... Angron. WITH the nails.
green sedge
Others were highly lethal, Angron is second place but not his fault.
Lorgar is probably responsible for the most deaths.
Long term.
green sedge
Russ was actually a genuinely pretty nice guy who was usually pretty chill. Not particularly murderous, tbh.
He played up the act super hard though.
Like, more than half his famous temper was him playing up the "wild and untamed fury" mythos that the Emperor needed him to display.
He knew his part.
atomic pelican
Ahh
Love this community because I can just ask some open-ended question and people love to chat abou tit
about it*
It's ๐
green sedge
Yeah it's nice.
verbal nest
Ya know how space marines can eat the brain of something and learn what they knew
Why not just capture a xenos high authority target and munch their brain
buoyant crypt
I thought they just got to see their memories for a short time
crisp heath
This, its Just a short view. Also not all astartes have the ability
And there is the risk or curruption (If eating Chaos brain)
quasi vigil
Black legion, is my favorit army in 40k.
storm jungle
Yeah its for a short duration, and its not something you'd use every time you kill someone.
crisp heath
They probably have done that munch high priority xeno brain thing before too anyways
like no way there aren't some deathwatch dudes that don't occasionally chow on warboss/eldar/ethereal brain
final spruce
Shit, I missed the fleshy mechanicus talk
thick shadow
A "flesh" mechanicus?
barren tapir
Magos biologis
Techpriests that instead of bionics use vat grown flesh replacements
Or improvements
Like one of the new organs of the primaris most probably...
final spruce
You have multiple types of people working in the Mechanicus that actually study the flesh
Like previously mentionned Magos Biologis and Genetors
Genetors being about studying xenos physiology and, some a bit more "heretical" how to "safely" graft them to humans
barren tapir
Genetor and magos biologis are synonimus
final spruce
Or how to turn humans into small space marines
barren tapir
They are the genetic expert of the Ad. Mech., they are the guys who take the SM geneseed to see if it is still pure
final spruce
By "small space marines" I meant the Gland Warriors
I just checked, you were right Blank
barren tapir
I prefer the efrainel strain
barren tapir
No, i mean the guys who were made from genetic material from the heroes of the imperium
Afriel strain, my bad
crisp heath
they could also be seen
barren tapir
These guys
crisp heath
as the nat 1 boys
final spruce
So the Nat 1 boys
crisp heath
because they are exceptionally unlucky
barren tapir
Aaaahh, nat 1 as bad luck, yes, now i get it
final spruce
Sorry , I thought it was a bit more obvious for wargame and ttrpg players
barren tapir
It is, it is just that it is of a system that i never used
final spruce
Weren't Afriel considered a heretical project after the propentionnal bad luck of the strain ?
barren tapir
I used more d20 or d100 systems
crisp heath
It doesn't seem that is the case
that they're heretical I mean
though I wouldn't be surprised if they just stopped making them
barren tapir
Well, probably, i think that they were just clones or maybe even soulles to a certain extent
crisp heath
because why would you keep making them if they're just cursed
barren tapir
Since they provoke the hate of others
odd sparrow
Lexicanum does have actual citations, just check those if ur unsure