#40k-lore-chat | Darktide | Page 1810

lean raven Sep 24, 2020, 9:03 AM

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Xcom 2 had destructible environments, all sorts of different enemy types, a much better gameplay flow and more varied customization.

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Necromunda has almost nothing going on in the actual combat besides an obtuse buff/debug system

mellow depot Sep 24, 2020, 9:06 AM

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Necromunda is 40k, xcom isnt

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🅱️

thick shadow Sep 24, 2020, 12:41 PM

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And it guides you to simp a female snake xenos

barren tapir Sep 24, 2020, 1:50 PM

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I played XCOM 2... Volk say hello... Now, about necromunda all that i wanted was mordheim imrpoved and in the 41st millennium... Instead it is a multiplayer wannabe game... Fuck multi for that games... I wanted to lead a gang, not a 5 men (women for escher) squad...

frigid mesa Sep 24, 2020, 4:56 PM

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the 40k mod for xcom 2 its pretty damn good

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Inquisition

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 6:58 PM

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i was thinkin

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since back then in the war of heaven when the ork where krork

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how did the gretchin and squigs looked like

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was the squigoth like the normal squig back then

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and the gretchin like idunno big

storm jungle Sep 24, 2020, 7:07 PM

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Im thinking they probably werent around?

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Since the orks were basically de-evolutioned themselves and probably thats where the squigs/gobbos starting popping out

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IF they were around though, krork squigs would probably be like squiggoths on streoids

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:08 PM

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arent they a part of the orkoid ecosystem

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yea like mega gargantuan squiggoth

storm jungle Sep 24, 2020, 7:08 PM

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Tbh they are but im not sure either, you actually asked a really good question regarding krork quigs/gobbos

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Must ask on reddit

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:09 PM

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just imagine the krotchins bein the scout troops

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since they are kinda smaller than normal krorks

storm jungle Sep 24, 2020, 7:09 PM

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and not being bullied!

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:10 PM

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no they would still be bullied

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just not killed

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since they are actually smart

storm jungle Sep 24, 2020, 7:14 PM

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and bein' kunnin' is important

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:14 PM

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wait i had a brainfart

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what if gork n mork are actually the concinces of old mega krork generals

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like the ghazgull equivilant of krork

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and they were just so strong they became gods

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and embody the waaagh

storm jungle Sep 24, 2020, 7:17 PM

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lol

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thats too good to be true at this point

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considering the current state of the galaxy at least

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:17 PM

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well it was a brainfart anyways

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but funny

rotund siren Sep 24, 2020, 7:18 PM

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I mean, couldn't it just be that they were krork leaders, and when they became orks, they saw them as gods?

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:18 PM

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the true krork who still survived to this day

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and theyre name is tuska daemon killa

rotund siren Sep 24, 2020, 7:19 PM

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is that from the Khorne daemon world that I always hear about?

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:20 PM

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its khornes favorite ork toy

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and tuskas heaven

storm jungle Sep 24, 2020, 7:20 PM

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He rides eternal

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shiny and krumpin'

rotund siren Sep 24, 2020, 7:20 PM

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In Orkhallah

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:21 PM

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Waaghalla

rotund siren Sep 24, 2020, 7:21 PM

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Waaghalla*

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:21 PM

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i gotta trademark this

rotund siren Sep 24, 2020, 7:22 PM

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Yeah, quick, before Fatshark tattles to GW

fervent mist Sep 24, 2020, 7:22 PM

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OH FUCK O SHOAOFGI

celest dome Sep 24, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Not all Orkoid fungus make living entities, and we know that Squigs have changed to fit the use/necessity of the Orks (Oil Squigs exist on normal Orks planet but not on feral world, while Mega Squiggoth exist on only a few planet), It's entirely possible that the fungus that grows are being changed by the Orks fields to fit their need, needing weaker, smaller servant and created/mutated some fungus to grow Grots in place of food/Bois /squig

fervent mist Sep 25, 2020, 8:14 AM

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Good point

mint hill Sep 25, 2020, 8:15 AM

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don't forget the shroom beer.

fervent mist Sep 25, 2020, 8:16 AM

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Krork shroom vodka

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Stronger than fenrisisan ale

tawdry walrus Sep 29, 2020, 5:46 PM

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📎 KWFov6I.png

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can some enlightened soul edit those into guardsmen please?

thick shadow Sep 29, 2020, 11:06 PM

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~~they ARE~~

viscid tusk Oct 1, 2020, 3:24 AM

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So if I've read everything right, chaos zombies are strictly a Nurgle thing?

wooden igloo Oct 1, 2020, 5:15 AM

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~~chaos zombies~~ blessed servants of Nurgle

cerulean wagon Oct 1, 2020, 11:07 AM

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uhh depends on your definition of zombie @viscid tusk

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if you mean walking corpses then yes

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if you mean mindless hordes that are zombie like, no

odd sparrow Oct 1, 2020, 12:50 PM

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yeah plague zombies are solely a nurgle thing, none of the other gods have anything like it

cerulean wagon Oct 1, 2020, 12:53 PM

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nurgle does zombie stuff

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khorne/slaanesh do some pretty fucked up hordes tho

thick shadow Oct 1, 2020, 12:57 PM

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I wish we fight against Khorne someday. It would be very metal.

celest dome Oct 1, 2020, 1:50 PM

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Slaanesh has Coked up horde

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A portrayal of Khorne that wouldn't simply be Doom would be awesome

toxic scroll Oct 1, 2020, 4:41 PM

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Doom is just Sly Marbo fighting the hordes of Khorne daemons

celest dome Oct 1, 2020, 7:11 PM

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In a way, Nurgle is the easiest to portray well, it's quite unique and the only enemy faction that would fit the same ascetic would be the enemy in Resident Evil (Sickness, mutation, and general dirtyness) while the other are either more refined (Slaanesh has the master swordmen and artist), confusing (Tzeentch) or way overdone (Khorne)

rotund siren Oct 1, 2020, 7:22 PM

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I figure it'd also be hard to have Slaanesh without your game turning into an adult horror

odd sparrow Oct 1, 2020, 7:37 PM

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eh not really actually. The more recent slaanesh models have been taking a much more androgynous approach, less topless feminine stuff

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Plus it's worth noting that slaanesh covers like. obsessive pursuit of an art/extreme and self destructive excess of stuff, just that general vibe

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does give writers quite a lot of freedom with what obsesses this particular slaaneshi cult

rotund siren Oct 1, 2020, 7:41 PM

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Huh, alright. Neato, I guess

odd sparrow Oct 1, 2020, 7:53 PM

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Yea but totes is an option to use the older designs too

storm jungle Oct 1, 2020, 10:52 PM

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Nah still the same thing

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Slaanesh is still hard to do because of it, androgynous or not you can imagine most devs not wanting to bother much with it when Nurgle as said above is one of the easiest options.

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Meanwhile khorne has been done to death so at least its a nice divergence from him.

odd sparrow Oct 2, 2020, 12:41 AM

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yea you can kinda see why nurgle is the more popular one rn

vagrant osprey Oct 2, 2020, 2:28 AM

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Yes, because plague.

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Honestly? Tzeench would be the hardest to portray well.

buoyant crypt Oct 2, 2020, 2:30 AM

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just need elon musk to make the slaneesh game so theres no corporate overhead to worry about

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ez solution

vagrant osprey Oct 2, 2020, 2:30 AM

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That would be one way to portray Tzeench, yes.

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I think mowing down hordes of druggies would probably not play well in PR.

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And mowing down hordes of people playing painfully loud discordant music would not be a fun experience.

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Hordes of gluttons? Kinda not effective

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Slaanesh being presented as the kinky sex goddess is probably because it's easy to gross people out with weird sex stuff without them being unable to function, and non-functional units don't get deployed into combat.

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Anyway, what I'd REALLY like to see is Chaos Undivided, with subfactions of each of the four.

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That way there's variety, but nothing needs to have that many units.

primal tide Oct 2, 2020, 6:36 AM

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almost nobody wants to fight hordes of enemies while being forced to hear them blast "8 hours of sanic HEADPHONE WARNING" during the whole battle

mellow depot Oct 2, 2020, 6:38 AM

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Noise marines would be awesome

primal tide Oct 2, 2020, 6:39 AM

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but hard to portray accurately without making the player miserable

mellow depot Oct 2, 2020, 6:40 AM

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Making the player miserable is part of the experienxe

primal tide Oct 2, 2020, 6:40 AM

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same for tzeench:
heres some formless, unknowable magicians that make reality a confusing mess to untangle with their conniving magic
player: "cool so.. where do i shoot?"

mellow depot Oct 2, 2020, 6:40 AM

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Yes

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I want this

primal tide Oct 2, 2020, 6:41 AM

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doesnt sound very engaging for a video game about killing hordes 😕

mellow depot Oct 2, 2020, 6:41 AM

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Sounds great 2 me

primal tide Oct 2, 2020, 6:42 AM

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maybe a boss battle phase, but otherwise its much easier to design for zombies

buoyant crypt Oct 2, 2020, 8:00 AM

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dev small minds

mellow depot Oct 2, 2020, 8:24 AM

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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt

buoyant crypt Oct 2, 2020, 8:46 AM

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we needa get someone with too much money to care invested into making all the cool games the companies wont

celest dome Oct 2, 2020, 9:39 AM

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Even if it's true that money fix all

you would need a pletora of Dev, artist, and prove that you won't blemish GW Ip

mellow depot Oct 2, 2020, 9:41 AM

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It'd kinda be hard to tarnish GW any further

vagrant osprey Oct 2, 2020, 4:55 PM

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Tzeench is also plots within plots.

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Spending hours auditing requisition logs also does not make for fun and engaging action gameplay

buoyant crypt Oct 2, 2020, 5:48 PM

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Thing is money literally gets you all of that @celest dome

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Those people you named are just regular working people lol

vagrant osprey Oct 3, 2020, 6:16 PM

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I'm increasingly convinced that the Tau started as a Necrontyr colony ship the Old Ones spotted early on and attempted to cure.

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Aside from the physiological resemblance, they're both species with highly mutable genetics and almost negligible presence in the immaterium.

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For the Necrontyr this took the form of uncontrolled mutation, whereas the Tau can adapt themselves into specific tasks within a few generations.

barren tapir Oct 3, 2020, 6:25 PM

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That would conflict with the fact that the tau were discovered in the stone age by an Ad. Mech. fleet before a warp storm made impossible to reach their system... And they were to be exterminated

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The necrontyr also had an huge mutation rate because of their star, which irradiated them with huge quantity of radiations

vagrant osprey Oct 3, 2020, 6:27 PM

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1: It's not a conflict. The Necrontyr were exceedingly violent and hateful of all life, and they would have - by necessity - had to have their minds wiped to give them a fresh start.

barren tapir Oct 3, 2020, 6:27 PM

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IIRC the exploration fleet classified the tau as fish descended race

vagrant osprey Oct 3, 2020, 6:27 PM

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2: The Necrontyr's mutation persisted in places they colonized when they fled their star.

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3: The exploration fleets are somewhat less trustworthy than British explorers. You know, the people who classified Deer as "Rodents"

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... and who classified Capybaras as "Fish"

barren tapir Oct 3, 2020, 6:32 PM

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It is an interesting theory, but i think it lacks foundations... How a race extremely young could be an experiment from one of the oldest races? How could this experiment be maintained after the extiction of the old ones?
There are many questions that aren't easy to answer

vagrant osprey Oct 3, 2020, 6:33 PM

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I didn't say they maintained it.

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The Necrontyr colony ships were incredibly slow to start, and if one had foundered engines it would be adrift for who knows how long.

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The Old Ones were INCREDIBLY careful; they would have mothballed that experiment until it was safe to resume it.

grand sun Oct 3, 2020, 6:34 PM

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who would win Primarch II or XI?

vagrant osprey Oct 3, 2020, 6:34 PM

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Rather than the ship arriving at a planet, I think the galactic procession resulted in a planet arriving at it.

barren tapir Oct 3, 2020, 6:34 PM

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They are still fighting, that is why we don't know anything about them

grand sun Oct 3, 2020, 6:35 PM

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ah make sense my friend and i were fighting about this

vagrant osprey Oct 3, 2020, 6:36 PM

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They turned themselves into Ponies and decided to frollic on some planet in the malestrom.

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The Emperor deleted all references to them for obvious reasons.

buoyant crypt Oct 3, 2020, 6:51 PM

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wait what

grand sun Oct 3, 2020, 6:57 PM

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these are important facts thank you

spare wadi Oct 8, 2020, 8:25 AM

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are there like grenade launcher imperial guard troops?

maiden socket Oct 8, 2020, 8:55 AM

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yup

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Usually as a special weapon carried by on member of a squad

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 11:52 AM

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they also have underslungs

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https://www.buffersmodelrailways.com/image/cache/catalog/games workshop/Models/Astra Militarum/47-17 img3-800x800.jpg

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thats standard pattern

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https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-msS5tqawhfk/UYwCyuwq9oI/AAAAAAAAF5s/AU977jo0iK8/s1600/Veteran+004.jpg

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thats an underslung

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 11:57 AM

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Does it purge xenos tho

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That's all that matters

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:00 PM

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ofc

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:20 PM

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Even better. It purges more xenos per round fired...

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:20 PM

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So

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In a quick summary cause I see a lot of people asking about IG equipment/tactics/usefulness

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IG Have equipment equivalent to any modern military, and will usually field similar tactics and strategies where applicable

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Recon teams, mechanized and airborne infantry, any modern military unit type IG have an analogue for +additionals (voidfighters are neat)

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:23 PM

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The difference is that they are fighting aliens with superior tech or biom.

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:23 PM

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Well thats where your wrong kiddo

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:23 PM

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That's why you need so many guardsmen

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:24 PM

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In a standard guardsmans life you are more likely to see conflict in a civil unrest or minor ork incursion than anything else out there

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:24 PM

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Ok. Chaos cultists and masses are where they shine...

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:24 PM

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The galaxy is a big fucking place, and areas where combat is counted in the millions are actualy very few

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It's just thats what core lore focuses on cause thats what the tabletop is built around

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And IG weaponry for the most part is on par with, or greater than, most of their opponents they will come across

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A lasgun will drop most orks with little trouble

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Eldar are fast and deadly, but a well prepared IG defence has equipment like lascannons and autocannons which will tear most of their constructs apart

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And thats where a lot of the issue comes in

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prepperation

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a lot of core lore focuses on useless generals and mass expenditure of life because it makes space marines seem better when they win

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Outside of their own books you won't see competent guard, because the easiest way to set up a villain is to show them beating someone else

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Sorry needed to get that out of my system lol, seen it since day one of this discord just "do guard even have X"

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like people saying the DT trailer wasn't lore friendly because the guy had a plasma gun

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which sees a lot of service in the guard but apparently nobody knows that

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IG have every conventional form of fire arm, then they have all those weapons again in Las form, then you have plasma, bolters, flamers and launchers

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It is a great variety, a lot of it more potent and easy to acquire than people realise

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:50 PM

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What kind of melee do they have

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:50 PM

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Bayonets.

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:50 PM

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Apparently they can use their own form of chains swords

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Which I find interesting

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Are they even strong enough to use them

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:51 PM

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chain swords, power swords, power fists

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:51 PM

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📎 tumblr_pi6xje7qE11w6y0p0o1_1280.png

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:51 PM

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Power fists? Wot

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:51 PM

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anyone is strong enough to use a chain sword

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📎 99060105214_CommissarPowerFistNEW01.webp

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commissar with power fist

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:52 PM

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Yeah but if you turn on the chain, what's stopping the sword from just flinging out the hands of an IG

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:52 PM

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their hands?

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its no different from a chainsaw

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which humans use

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surprisingly

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:52 PM

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When you see SM using chainswords, there's so much brute force and power being thrown into the enemy

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I just wonder how it differs in use case

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What about hammers?

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:53 PM

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so against most targets it works mostly the same

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but a lot more deflection in the case of like

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a commissar vs a space marine

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which theres a few cases of the commissar winning said duels

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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Well a space marine is a space marine

rotund siren Oct 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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IG do get smaller chainswords

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and even gangers have chainswords

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and use them

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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Powerfists are absolutely no problem for a simple human to use. They simoly are less effective on a human than on a marine

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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Thunder hammers they do not but they do have power mauls @verbal nest

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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Are there any psykers among the IG/related branches?

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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which are 1 hand maces

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Yes

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Lots of psykers

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you got your standard bois

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and you have astropaths

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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They aren't being sacrificed to the golden throne?

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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Sanctioned psykers are absolutely part of the IG but they are part of the command staff

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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iirc combat psykers are called wyrdvane?

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:56 PM

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Ah makes sense if they're part of the authority

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:56 PM

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@verbal nest nope

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 12:56 PM

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A sanctioned psykers is far too valuable to be killed together with conscripts...

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:56 PM

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think of it this way

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sanctioned psyker could be a psychic

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and tell the future

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read the enemies battle plans before they make them

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a rare but extremley useful tool

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and they are always accompanied bya guard with a stun batton and a gun

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to uhh

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:57 PM

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Heh

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Motivation

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:57 PM

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exorcise any issues

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:58 PM

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Do any of the toaster boys fight alongside the IG

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:58 PM

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Yes, most mechanised regiments will have a retonue of tech priest enginseers

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for maintanence of vehicles and defences

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:59 PM

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Ah that makes sense yea

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But what about combat tech priests

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I don't even know if those are a thing

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:59 PM

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as in skitarri?

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 12:59 PM

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I know the words but idk what they mean. I was avoiding sayi g skitarri for that purpose

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 12:59 PM

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they are specificly a none IG formation for the defence of forge worlds

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they are the armies of the mechanicus

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men who are more machine than man

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 1:00 PM

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Yeah they think the human biology is weak

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 1:01 PM

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Skitari are not even part of the Astra militarum. They are the armed forces of the adeptus mechanics, which is a vassal state to the empire.

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 1:01 PM

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^

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 1:01 PM

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The Imperium holds no authority over the adeptus mechanicus

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 1:01 PM

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although theoretically a savey enginseer in a regiment could arm himself and man the defences

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most of them prefer to spend their time in the engineering bays

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 1:02 PM

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The Imperium holds no authority over the adeptus mechanicus
Wait why

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 1:04 PM

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Because the admech is their own empire

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technically

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 1:04 PM

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Because the adeptus mechanicus is a vassal state. The adeptus mechanicus has tight bonds with the empire but the priests of Mars don't worship the God emperor of mankind. They worship the omnessaia. The machine God.

The ecclesiarchy tolerates that, because the priests of Mars builds most of the advanced equipment for the empire.

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 1:04 PM

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instead of going to war with them the emperor forged an alliance with them

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which has never been broken (technically)

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 1:05 PM

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And the empire protects the adeptus mechanicus. While they are technically more advanced that the empire, they don't have the numbers and would fall without the empires aid.

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It's a win/win situation.

barren tapir Oct 8, 2020, 1:06 PM

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The Ad. Mech. has its autorithy maintained by the old pact with the emperor, they were allowed to keep their religion when everyone else had to adhere to the imperial truth, Ad. Mech. is mora an ally of the imperim than a vassal state

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Not even the inquisition could have officially autorithy over them, but since it is the inquisition it doesn't really care and try to meddle with Ad. Mech. with interesting results i would say

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And while Ad. Mech. doesn't follow the imperial creed they still "worship" the emperor, they see him as the avatar of the omnissaiah

analog ginkgo Oct 8, 2020, 1:09 PM

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Oh I bet the inquisition would like to have woooords with the adeptus mechanicus. Tech heresy, forbidden technology, not worshipping the God emperor of mankind...

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They still don't see the emperor as the highest possible authority...

barren tapir Oct 8, 2020, 1:10 PM

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Oh I bet the inquisition would like to have woooords with the adeptus mechanicus. Tech heresy, forbidden technology, not worshipping the God emperor of mankind...
They do... Stygies VIII is an expample, but the Ad. Mech. isn't really one that like outsiders to meddle with its secrets

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 1:10 PM

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stygies VIII off on another webway crusade

barren tapir Oct 8, 2020, 1:11 PM

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stygies VIII off on another webway crusade
Some tech priest yes, it is one of my favourite forge worlds

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 1:28 PM

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Could the mechanicus overthrow the imperium if they just felt like it

cerulean wagon Oct 8, 2020, 1:35 PM

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Nope, not enough manpower

barren tapir Oct 8, 2020, 2:06 PM

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Could the mechanicus overthrow the imperium if they just felt like it
Yes

verbal nest Oct 8, 2020, 2:08 PM

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I'm getting 2 different answers here

barren tapir Oct 8, 2020, 2:09 PM

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It will not be the last time you get divergent answers when talking about warhammer 40K

mellow depot Oct 8, 2020, 2:15 PM

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Lmfao

vagrant osprey Oct 9, 2020, 12:14 AM

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The Ad. Mech can't overthrow the Imperium. They don't have enough military might to even stage a rebellion. That was proven back during the Heresy.

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They COULD destroy the Imperium, but they would be wiped out in the process.

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If the Ad. Mech turned, it would be a bloody battle that the Imperium would win, but in so doing it would lose its ability to use almost all of its remaining technology - including warp drives.

vast frigate Oct 9, 2020, 12:58 AM

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Uh

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the imperium would lose that battle

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Even if the admech got destroyed, theyd win the battle. In a hypothetical where all cogbois are on 1 line, which they never are, youd have insiders in EVERY installation

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they could very easily annihilate the entire starfaring capability in one swift move by overloading all ship reactors, then all planets needing atmospherics support would go as well thanks to generators easily going boop, tanks refuse to drive thanks to sabotaged fuel <promethium is a Gatherall word for fuel> perhaps they throw all titan legions they have at whatever they want

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remember that the mechanicus operates under the sole Monopoly of all technology

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They sent a warlord titan to the house of lords and it only stopped a few steps away from walking through the imperial palace

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And that was just because they didnt get accepted as an adeptus before that

vagrant osprey Oct 9, 2020, 1:32 AM

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It'd be a pyrrhic victory.

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The Imperium could destroy the AdMech.

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In the process, it would be a second, worse AoS

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A new Old Night would fall on humanity as they were sent reeling back into the bronze age.

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Well, no. There are Tech Marines who would side with the Imperium.

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So the Imperium would merely be reduced to roving bands of Astartes raiders.

barren tapir Oct 9, 2020, 11:43 AM

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I stand with Elyksis, Ad. Mech. can definitely overthrow the imperium, he also explain very well how... It is kinda what i thought, but a better explaination is given by the foundation series of Asimov... The reason as why Ad. Mech. don't do that is mostly because they have no interest in that, and the imperium is good at managing stuff that Ad. Mech. don't want to...

celest dome Oct 9, 2020, 11:44 AM

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A lot of non Forge World also have a lot of Ad Mech Industry/influence

frigid mesa Oct 9, 2020, 1:19 PM

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its fulgrim redemption posibble my lads?

cerulean wagon Oct 9, 2020, 1:20 PM

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no

frigid mesa Oct 9, 2020, 1:20 PM

#

what about clonegrim?

tawdry walrus Oct 9, 2020, 1:23 PM

#

there´s no redemption from becoming a daemon prince

barren tapir Oct 9, 2020, 1:56 PM

#

what about clonegrim?
No, he is not corrupt therefore it cannot be redeemed

devout marlin Oct 9, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

Clonegrim can potentially come back as a good guy primarch though

verbal nest Oct 9, 2020, 2:12 PM

#

Who's cloning me

celest dome Oct 9, 2020, 3:21 PM

#

Of all of the Traitor Primarch, Fulgrim must be the least likely to turn good again

devout marlin Oct 9, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

None of them can turn good again

#

None of them own their souls anymore

#

Fulgrim is arguably the only one who can be a “good guy” again and that’s only through his clone

celest dome Oct 9, 2020, 6:02 PM

#

Well all of them could be cloned
The only one I would love to see turn from Chaos would be Mortarion, but not toward a second Imperium but toward a Reborn Interex (Xenos Friendly Human Federation) under the egide/aegis of Isha

vagrant osprey Oct 9, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

Magnus is arguably not evil in the first place.

#

He kinda does fuck all, TBH

primal tide Oct 9, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

Magnus isn't magnus any more, just the crappy bits left over after he sharted

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 12:56 AM

#

Remember that clones technically dont have a soul

#

its why Replicae's are illegal in the imperium, except for krieg

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 1:15 AM

#

Krieg aren't clones. They're each genetically unique, they're just gestated in a tank.

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 8:18 AM

#

Vitae wonbs, theyre still replicaes of a dna match, which makes the imperium class them as clones

celest dome Oct 11, 2020, 8:32 AM

#

Are Vat Grown Clan Goliath also considered clone ?

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 9:28 AM

#

Technically yeah

#

theyre considered replicae's cause theyre made out of previously used genes

#

without a mother for that fact

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 9:39 AM

#

but its necromunds so whos gonna stopem

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 9:40 AM

#

Interestingly, there is a very nice video on fulgrin and his clones on YouTube. One of fulgrims (successful) clones was absolutely loyal to the emperor and inherited more and more memories from the real fulgrim.
It can be suggested that the original fulgrim lost his soul when he was curropted and that a new clone might inherit the new body over time.

celest dome Oct 11, 2020, 10:10 AM

#

Fulgrim was possesed by a Deamon and the start of the Horus Heresy (Blade of Laer) and regained control after being corrupted
Primarch (and the SM in some way) have Genetic memory, the clone remembered thing because it was the genetic memory of after the HH (ie: He knew what happened to Fulgrim but was not tainted)

mellow depot Oct 11, 2020, 10:41 AM

#

@analog ginkgo are you suggesting souls migrate?

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 10:43 AM

#

Well. It is suggested the emperors should does. So why not?

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

its why Replicae's are illegal in the imperium, except for krieg
Replicae aren't illegal, just restricted and very few know how to do it right

mellow depot Oct 11, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

I'm joking I was trying to make a monty python and the holy grail reference

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 11:09 AM

#

Im using illegal in a wrong way

#

The imperium sees replicates and vatborn as soulless or even heretical unless you are for example, unable to carry yourself

#

The belief stands that the unity of a couple's souls sparks a new one into being

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

By that definition, the primarchs are soulless products of heresy.

celest dome Oct 11, 2020, 11:51 AM

#

Yup, like most thing in the IoM

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 11:56 AM

#

Isn't it a. It ironic? I mean... just like the rest of the 40k uninverse.
What was the first thing the emperor did? He forbid religion to meddle in state affairs. What was the first thing happened after he "died"... they made him the central figure of a new state religion...

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 11:57 AM

#

It started even before he "died"... DAMN YOU LORGAR!!

celest dome Oct 11, 2020, 12:15 PM

#

And F*** Erebus

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

The primarchs are heresy

#

The emperor struck a deal with the gods to make them, not even tzeentch realized what they were for untill he waa nearly done

#

But the emperor made them so its gucci

celest dome Oct 11, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

The concept of Heresy is heretical, as the Inquisition is an Heresy (deviated from Malcador plan)

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:15 PM

#

Basically yea

#

Anything humans do after the emperor dies is big no no in emperor's eyes

#

Although emperor is a vegetable so he really can't do anything until he makes a comeback

buoyant crypt Oct 11, 2020, 2:17 PM

#

ik this isnt going to happen but Big E being resurgent and getting up outta his seat would be the coolest timeline

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

Although emperor is a vegetable so he really can't do anything until he makes a comeback
He could, like sending his custodes, not even the branch dedicated as emissaries, but a single custodes to say what he want the imperium to do, but that would be too much reasonable

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

He could come back if an alpha level psyker took his place

#

Buut...

#

Alphas are shot on detection

buoyant crypt Oct 11, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

arent they sacrificing psykers to keep him alive anyway

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

A thousand a day

buoyant crypt Oct 11, 2020, 2:18 PM

#

wym shot on detection

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:19 PM

#

Okay so

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:19 PM

#

ik this isnt going to happen but Big E being resurgent and getting up outta his seat would be the coolest timeline
Who know, since the cicatrix maledictum fucked up big time maybe even a resurgent emp may not be enough, as long he return with his powers limited since he his still "healing"

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:19 PM

#

The black fleet is a set of ships with equipment that can detect psyker activity

#

There are levels of psychic activity

#

Ranging from - to alpha +

#

Alpha + is shit like magnus

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:20 PM

#

Like people capable of destroy a titan with a simple gesture

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:20 PM

#

Malcador was an alpha psyker and was able to hold the throne because of it,

#

The issue is

#

As stated above, their power is enornous

#

Theyre the kind of people demons have wet dreams for

#

If an unaware alpha psyker taps into the warp, they can straight up put an entire sector <a solar system> to dust

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:21 PM

#

I think that malcador was even more powerful than an alpha psyker... He could survive being near the strongest blank i know, Jenetia Krole

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:22 PM

#

So the black ships do not take chances with these creaturs and they are shot on sight

#

No chance

#

Dead.

#

Unless, and with a big if

#

They instantly surrender and show they are in control and willing to gaze into the astronomicon

#

But that has never happened before, as it has been stated, if an alpha level psyker powers the throne, he could possibly put it on positive numbers again, which would kickstart big E's regeneration abilities

#

If big E is heales enough his warp energies take over and he will be able to come back

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:24 PM

#

As cool as it would be for E to come back, Games Workshop doesn't seem too keen on it

They only just bought back Roboute and there's a whole necron thing going on, it's only a matter of time before the AdMech realise how blind they've been for 10k years and get their golden age tech (coz it's right in front of them)

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:24 PM

#

Yes

#

Chances are we will see a return of a few primarchs before big e ever becomes spotlight again

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

If big E is heales enough his warp energies take over and he will be able to come back
That is only half of the problem, what about the warp portal in the deeps of the imperial palace?

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

Thats the thing

#

He cant leave the throne

#

Hes the beam that holds the webway gate door shut

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

As cool as it would be for E to come back, Games Workshop doesn't seem too keen on it

They only just bought back Roboute and there's a whole necron thing going on, it's only a matter of time before the AdMech realise how blind they've been for 10k years and get their golden age tech (coz it's right in front of them)
Ad. Mech. golden tech age in front of them??

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

If that opens a second eye of terror tears half the galaxy asundder

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:25 PM

#

I wanna see E come back and somehow imperium survives, so he has enough time to look at terra and go "bruh wut"

#

Even Roboute had something to say when he came back

#

Something about the imperium going backwards

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:26 PM

#

It has, Guillman was deeply disgusted by what the imperium had become

#

Sadly the imperium is in such a bad state that he couldn't risk to fracture it even more with radical reforms... He still managed to replace some high lords, fight a war with the inquisition and shelter an huge number of free thinkers

#

I think that he also try to undermine the power of the adeptus ministratum

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:28 PM

#

Is Roboute accepting of killing so many civilians

#

In the way of psyker sacrifice and guardsman

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:29 PM

#

In the way of psyker sacrifice and guardsman
About psykers kinda, about guardsman no, he remove incompetent commanders who waste tons of lives

#

I think that he understand that awful situations calls for not great solutions

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

Ad. Mech. golden tech age in front of them??
@barren tapir
Yeah a lot of AdMech tech is actually powered by AI secretly, like some of their ancient warships. There's a story where the AdMech came upon some enemies and basically the warship just opened a bunch of hidden valves in the ship, revealing a shit tonne of OP weapons and it destroyed the enemy (I forget who) all of its own accord. And then it acts like nothing happened

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

I mean, when he returned to Terra he had to fight demons on it

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

And the STCs aren't as rare as the imperium think, they just think it's rare

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

@barren tapir
Yeah a lot of AdMech tech is actually powered by AI secretly, like some of their ancient warships. There's a story where the AdMech came upon some enemies and basically the warship just opened a bunch of hidden valves in the ship, revealing a shit tonne of OP weapons and it destroyed the enemy (I forget who) all of its own accord. And then it acts like nothing happened
The Speranza... I think that you are talking about the ship sniping a cloaked eldar ship during a warp jump

#

Which is also an STC

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:32 PM

#

I'm entirely unsure, it was a while ago. Maybe it was that

#

I just wanna see AdMech go full power crazy

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

I just wanna see AdMech go full power crazy
They already kinda are... Just extremely limited by their dogmatism

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

No like, I wanna see them find an STC, and go full golden age again

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

Oh, and btw, the libraries/catacombs on Mars are enough to spark another tech golden age... If they weren't infected by horrors from the HH

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

Reee the AdMech are so blind wtf

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

No like, I wanna see them find an STC, and go full golden age again
Do you know about that STC hidden by an order of monks on a planet?

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

I don't know that

#

What kind of monks

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

An STC library is located on the planet Hito. This planet escaped the Warp and was reclaimed by the Imperium. The library was hidden by the local Order of Heavenly Virtues who managed to deceive Imperial agents.

#

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Standard_Template_Construct

Standard Template Construct

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

Yeah the admech does have legitimately good reason to be as ritualistic as they are. Like, the libraries on mars are fucked by chaos bullshit

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

Here there is a nice list of STC

#

Yeah the admech does have legitimately good reason to be as ritualistic as they are. Like, the libraries on mars are fucked by chaos bullshit
Yeah, sadly i would add... All that knowledge just beyond your reach and yet so near...

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:37 PM

#

yeah it's literally just right there. But alas, horus did everything wrong

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:37 PM

#

But TBH the Ad. Mech. is extremely fractured too... Like forge worlds not sharing blueprint and similar stuff... Funny enough that is also opposite of what the cult mechanicus was in origin

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:37 PM

#

who would win: a bright dominant future of a scientifically and culturally enlightened issues
or a baldboi with daddy issues

#

Yeah the imperium in general is crazy fractious, cogboys aren't exempted. There's hella controversy amongst tech priests over what is and isn't acceptable

#

cawl being at the extreme end of everything is acceptable go fuck yourself i'm gonna go make more AI try and stop me

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

The good thing is that all this factions (IoM, Ad. Mech., Inqui) all have inside them really good sub factions

#

So a little hope is always there... At least for me

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

They also have factions...
A unifies admech that would get its shit together and start reading books again, would be awesome but that only happens the day the emperor knocks on their doors on Mars and tells them to get it together.

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

Reading that link for STCs, why are space marines not handing the STC over to the AdMech?

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

Like the Suculos Attendus of the inquisition, those are really good dudes

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

Because they want them for themselves. If they give a stc to the admech, it's gone.

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

Reading that link for STCs, why are space marines not handing the STC over to the AdMech?
Eh... Are you new to warhammer 40k lore aren't you?

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

Kind of sort of I don't know a lot I just know some general surface knowledge

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

Broadly speaking the Imperium is about as fractious as it could possibly be without being in open civil war

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

But most probably because Ad. Mech. takes a lot of time to put newly discovered STC to productions, and SM being pragmatic want them as soon as possible

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

there are certain factions which are outright killing each other off in the lowkey

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

Oh right yeah that makes sense

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

@obtuse pythons and inquisition

#

if u didn't want to be pinged u shouldn't have picked that name tbh

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

And it is possible that the admech (or more specifically an very conservative faction) would lock it away, because it's too dangerous to use it.

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

Also question, there's those assassins that work in the imperium, they worship death or some shit. Are they killing civilians? I watched a YouTube video where they're apparently like bounty hunters or something and borderline heresy, and usually actually heresy

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

Like, oh look, a new STC for an agricoltural thing, let keep it for a thousand yers and then declare it safe to use, even if it is just a single blade for lawnmower

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

I dont want to know how many stcs were "lost" because some old fart in the admech deemed the technology too dangerous.

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

@barren tapir The Holy Lawnmower Blades of The Dark Age ™️ ©️ ®️

#

Used for cutting grass

And kicking ass

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

I dont want to know how many stcs were "lost" because some old fart in the admech deemed the technology too dangerous.
Quite a lot... Like phosphex weapons

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

What's phosphex? Some OP plasma weapon type?

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

Well. Those khorne cults would like to have corrupted lawnmowers...

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

Also question, there's those assassins that work in the imperium, they worship death or some shit. Are they killing civilians? I watched a YouTube video where they're apparently like bounty hunters or something and borderline heresy, and usually actually heresy
Not really, if they are the officio assassinorum ones they are little more than tools...

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

you don't reap corn with a lawnmower smh

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

What's phosphex? Some OP plasma weapon type?
Take napalm and make it 100X more deadly

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

If the lawnmower is large enough...

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

Yeah the assassins don't really go rogue. They're a specialist unit only used for extremely high profile targets

#

otherwise they're just kinda kept sealed away until they're next needed

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

Corn for the khorne....god?

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

And about killing civilians that depend on the type of assassin

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

Who needs phosphex when you have modern day chilli sauce

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

If certain admech groups would find an stc for plasma weapons that are as easy to use as Las guns without overheating, they would probably get locked away... The space marines would get an errection and start mass production...

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

remember kids, it still counts as stealth if you kill all the possible witnesses within like 2 miles square

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

Who needs phosphex when you have modern day chilli sauce
Probably lost to the 41st millennium

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

big brain culexus

#

hm or was that eversor

#

the skullbois

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:47 PM

#

More tragic than the Horus heresy@barren tapir

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

actually nvm that's probably both culexes and eversor tbh

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

Also aren't we in the 42nd M now?

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:48 PM

#

42k doesn't have the same ring to it

barren tapir Oct 11, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

If certain admech groups would find an stc for plasma weapons that are as easy to use as Las guns without overheating, they would probably get locked away... The space marines would get an errection and start mass production...
Funny thing is that many STC aren't even studied, but just locked away because someone deemed them too dangerous...
Also funny is that Ad. Mech. could reverse engineer tau weapons, but that would be tech heresy

#

hm or was that eversor
This

#

actually nvm that's probably both culexes and eversor tbh
Culexus are anti psyker assassins

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

not necessarily always deployed against psykers but yeah, psychic blanks = v good at that

#

idk if the imperium would even want tau weapons tbh. I do appreciate the symbolism in them tho, that tau plasma guns are made to be safe and stable at the cost of power, but the imperium couldn't give less of a shit about the safety of their soldiers

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:51 PM

#

Is it true there are these massive machines in 40k that can print out whole Cities? My old science teacher (40k fan) told me this years ago

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

the only thing i remember about that was the ancient eldar having something similar, possible tho. 40k doesn't really have that much of an upper limit techno-gabble wise

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:52 PM

#

Alright

#

Ancient... eldar? What did those guys get up to

#

Well I know the eldar made a chaos God there's that

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

They ruled the better part of the galaxy for some millions of years before humanity even learnt to walk, effectively mastered pretty much every discipline possible with stupid advanced technology. Their civilization ended around 30k and now only really lives on through a couple of distraught craftworlds drifting around space

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:55 PM

#

Huh so the eldar must be super advanced even in the 40k

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:55 PM

#

yeah they made slaanesh. tl;dr they got way too much into extremes of pleasure and pain, promptly birthed a chaos god centred around those qualities and nuked their entire empire in the process

#

the previous centre of the eldar empire is now the eye of terror, an area in which reality and the warp kinda bleed together

#

Yeah they're one of the most advanced races. The other super advanced race are the necrons

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

Spooky scary skeletons, send warp tears back to hell

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:57 PM

#

pretty much. Necrons > eldar tho tbh, the eldar only have the technology they have because the race that created them gave it to them specifically so they could fight the necrons

#

the necrons innovated the vast majority of theirs by themselves

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:57 PM

#

Also I forget the name but there's those ancient ships, something to do with battlefleet gothic

#

What are those about

#

Ancient ships with a mind of their own

#

And I believe the imperium captured one

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

blackstone fortresses?

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

Yes those

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:59 PM

#

iirc i don't think it's ever been directly confirmed what those are? But general speculation is they were created by the old ones and/or the eldar

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 2:59 PM

#

Old ones are those godlike guys yeah

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 2:59 PM

#

old ones were one of the earliest sentient races and are responsible for the orks, eldar and indirectly the necrons. They also created the webway, the transdimensional highway the eldar use

#

yea

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

The webway is also used by the imperium no?

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

I mean. Tau gauss weapons are not really sophisticated technology. But they are not afraid to use it.

#

Minds not corruptded by the dark lords.

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:02 PM

#

Nah the Imperium doesn't use the webway, the only other race besides the eldar that has access to them are the necrons. Who eventually kinda figured a way to rip into them

#

The emperor was working on opening the webway up for humanity but he got horus'd before he could finish his project

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:02 PM

#

Is it true the necrons don't really take a side to fight on?

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:03 PM

#

The necrons are kinda lawful neutral imo. They're not affiliated with any of the other major factions and will fight with them depending on the situation

#

they still ultimately want to reclaim the galaxy but how they want to exactly go about that depends on which necron leader we're talking about

mint hill Oct 11, 2020, 3:03 PM

#

They are neutral evil as they kill everything equally

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:03 PM

#

Why were the necrons asleep for so long

mint hill Oct 11, 2020, 3:04 PM

#

old lore was they were letting the galaxy repopulate to feed to the C'tan, I don't know about new lore.

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:04 PM

#

They were waiting for the eldar and orks (or, their superior evolutionary predecessor) to die out, as well as any of the other races that were depleting them in the past

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:05 PM

#

What if Blackstone fortresses are peak golden age tech and the imperium don't even know it

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:05 PM

#

by the time they've woken up the eldar are nearly extinct and the orks have devolved substantially, so it did kinda work

#

Yeah the new lore conflicts with the original necron lore greatly. Old necrons were still slaves to their star gods, new necrons blasted their star gods into pieces millions of years ago and now use their shattered personalities as pokemon

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:06 PM

#

Star gods huh

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:07 PM

#

They were called c'tan, at this point there's probably one one of them left that hasn't been nuked into shards. They're kinda the only godlike beings in the universe that don't rely on the warp for their power, they're purely physical beings

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:07 PM

#

What came before them?

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:07 PM

#

iirc the psychic cannons on the blackstone fortresses are thought to have been a weapon specialized at fighting c'tan

#

Nothing really, the earliest 40k lore reliably goes back to is the war in heaven

#

and that covers the war between the necrons and old ones and how the c'tan fit into it before they got nuked

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:12 PM

#

War in heaven

#

Neat

#

Like actual heaven or

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:14 PM

#

nah, it's only called the war in heaven because the scale of it was so vast that to the primitive races living on the planets below it looked like there was a war in the sky

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:14 PM

#

It's a real shame there isn't enough accessible 40k video games

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:15 PM

#

Yeah it is kinda sad. GW is into handing out the 40k IP piecemeal and way too liberally, resulting in a ridiculous amount of crappy 40k games

#

you still get a few good ones now and then tho

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:16 PM

#

Too many card games or turn based games.

#

I love turn based games but man I just wanna be a space marine and kill things

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 3:17 PM

#

Pardon me I off course meant the Tau rail guns.

Gauss weapons usually are magnetic accelerators...

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:17 PM

#

rail guns are <3

#

how to turn space marines into paste 101

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

When there's new lore in 40k, like the revival of Roboute and stuff like that, is it first released on books?

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

Yeah they release all that stuff in novels usually

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

Usually?

odd sparrow Oct 11, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

iirc the series covering Guilliman coming back was called gathering storm

#

I can't speak as to all the time, i'm not sure they've released anything besides short stories for the silent king yet

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 3:19 PM

#

Same name as the dlc from civ 6

#

That's funny

analog ginkgo Oct 11, 2020, 3:37 PM

#

Paste? More like: "how to punch holes right through space marines 101."

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:38 PM

#

I'm pretty sure the reason why AI is illegal in the Imperium is because thronebutt is a biological supremacist and saw people improving themselves via science as a digression from improving themselves via psychic power.

#

It makes sense; once the Eldar murderfucked a god of murderfucking into existence there weren't any strong psyker prostitutes left.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:43 PM

#

that and you know

#

the dark ages

#

the war against the men of iron

winged fog Oct 11, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

http://nurgle.stelio.net/lore_ogryns.php

#

those should be the ogryns on the other side 😄

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

Evidence points to those being kinda not that big a deal for people.

#

Like, at all.

#

Canonically, humans put EVERYTHING into the control of AI.

#

Weapons, production, life support. Everything.

#

And what we've seen of DaoT ships, there's nothing actually stopping their AI from killing their crew and doing whatever they wanted.

#

Humans would not be relevant.

#

How do you put down a revolt when your guns, tools, farms, and doors all decide to join it?

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

ye thats kinda why the federation fell apart

#

and then slaanesh was born to top it off

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

Yeah, no. That's not possible.

#

If AI turned on humanity, humanity would not exist.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

i mean

#

thats literaly the lore

#

you can read it

#

think360

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

The lore is "AI was in total control over everything" and "Humans fought off AI"

#

One of those cannot be true.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

the thing that isnt true is that they were fully fought off lol

#

they are still dawdling about

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

The remaining AI are not interested in killing humans.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

the ones we are aware of anyway

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

The Speranza hides itself as an ordinary Imperium ship to protect itself, but is content to help humanity as it can.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

Yes, not all AI wanted to do it

#

thats kind of the deal with AI being, you know

#

sentient

#

they arent a collective, they have differences of opinion

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

UR-025 is explicitly a Man of Iron, not simply an AI, and it's also not interested in fighting humanity.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

yes

#

see above

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

Ah, but the lore is that ALL Men of Iron were destroyed, because ALL AI turned against humanity.

#

It's a contradiction.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

no the lore is people are told all men of iron were destroyed

#

thats not a contradiction

#

its a lie

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

By the same source that claimed all AI turned against Humanity - the Emperor.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

Cause AI did turn against humanity

#

before the emporer even existed

#

The war is known and is fact

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

The Emperor was born back in the early bronze age.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

The war happened

#

both sides survived

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

The war happened, yes, but evidence points to humans not being participants.

#

It was AI versus AI.

cerulean wagon Oct 11, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

Humanity still suffered for it, and were seen as being attacked because they suffered from it

#

entire worlds died out

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

Humans were collateral damage.

#

The fact that there are so many planets with humans that do not have AI on them doesn't suggest humans destroyed the AI that was there; it means the attackers killed the defenders and humans were left to fend for themselves.

vast frigate Oct 11, 2020, 11:04 PM

#

''oi lads we burned your shit, good luck''

vagrant osprey Oct 11, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

The cybernetic revolts seem to be a slave uprising by the Men of Iron.

#

So the belligerents would have been the Men of Iron and the Men of Stone.

verbal nest Oct 11, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

What are the men of iron and stone

odd sparrow Oct 12, 2020, 12:53 AM

#

men of iron is a term for a group of AI that rebelled against humanity pre imperium, their rebellion helped kick off the age of strife (25k-30k ish, basically everything sucked for everyone)

#

i forget what the exact fluff is for the men of stone and men of gold

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 2:14 AM

#

It's extremely vague.

#

Intentionally, I should note.

thick badge Oct 12, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

Every future fantasy: How do we make our future interesting?

Writers: make the AI rebel and almost wipe out all of humanity!

OOOOOOO

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 4:56 AM

#

Then it turns out that... didn't actually really even happen?

#

That's way more interesting :V

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 8:02 AM

#

Wasn't Warhammer the first to write a lot of sci fi

#

They've been around so long I just assume they're exempt from cliche

mellow depot Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 AM

#

which came out first, Terminator or Warhammer 40k?

#

🤔

devout marlin Oct 12, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

Terminator came three years before Rogue Trader

#

And 40k technically can’t be taken as being as old as its date of creation, much has been added and removed over the years

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 11:31 AM

#

I don't know from where you found out that everything was under AI control... I never saw any canon source stating that

#

The lore is "AI was in total control over everything" and "Humans fought off AI"
One of those cannot be true.
The AI was in control of everthing is wrong

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 11:46 AM

#

@barren tapir golden age era ai technically controlled basically everything

#

most importantly STCs

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 11:48 AM

#

Is the emperor essentially a walking STC? Coz like, he obviously has godlike memory

#

Roboute?

#

Seems kinda dumb that the primarchs weren't given their own personal STC data

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 11:52 AM

#

@barren tapir golden age era ai technically controlled basically everything
Is that an hypothesis or it is confirmed by sources?
Because it is stated that the men of iron rebelled, and they were mostly used for war but also for other menial jobs, but not everything...

#

Is the emperor essentially a walking STC? Coz like, he obviously has godlike memory
Yeah, theoretically the emperor could know everything so he should be capable to reignite the technological might of mankind... But that wouldn't be grimdark enough... Or at least managing to keep an intact STC in good state... After all he can see quite a lot in the future

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 11:58 AM

#

Couldn't see his own fucking death?

#

Lol noob

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 11:59 AM

#

What if he did, and he chose to die so to finally kill chaos in an epic plot?
No one know...

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 12:03 PM

#

Hmm yes today I will die, and set the entire species down a fucking spiral of torture for 10k+ years all in a plot to destroy Chaos

#

Is it even possible to destroy Chaos, since it's literally the opposite of anything the living people do?

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 12:04 PM

#

Is it even possible to destroy Chaos, since it's literally the opposite of anything the living people do?
There is a lot of speculation on this topic, but theoretically yes...

#

My personal POV is yes, and mankind can be the perfect weapon... Also the necrons...

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 12:12 PM

#

@barren tapir so men of iron were made by different AI

#

I don't know the original source for it but lore wise we made i think it was men of gold

#

who made men of iron

#

who made men of stone

#

or something to that extent

#

Its the reason why we ended up with people not knowing how to tech

#

you can just 3d print a new thing from AI friendo, why learn to fix it?

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 12:15 PM

#

Because STC don't print out stuff?? Some things maybe, but the STC was more a blueprint repository than a factory

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 12:15 PM

#

Originaly it was more of a factory

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 12:15 PM

#

Of course there were STC who produced stuff, but they were more just an huge PC

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 12:15 PM

#

but then the federation sorta died

#

cause the ai war happened

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 12:18 PM

#

STC were repositories not factories in origin... Of course putting all STC in one category is wrong, but they weren't factories for the biggest part

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 12:18 PM

#

The STCs contained all Human scientific and technological knowledge of the era and provided the instructions required to build anything the colonists might need.

As most colonists lived relatively simple lives and required only basic equipment and machines, the more advanced technology available in a full STC was rarely utilised.

#

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Age_of_Technology

Warhammer 40k Wiki

Age of Technology

The Age of Technology, informally often referred to as the Dark Age of Technology, was the zenith of Mankind's scientific knowledge and technological power in the Milky Way Galaxy, which lasted...

#

its pretty neato

#

cause STC literaly mean Standard Template Construct

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 12:19 PM

#

Funny that it's called the dark age even tho it was a golden age

#

Inb4 someone explains why

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 12:20 PM

#

Cause the tech was so horrific its the reason humanity fell from grace

#

basically

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 12:21 PM

#

Inb4 someone explains why

#

I was being sarcastic lmao

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 12:22 PM

#

Inb4 someone explains why
A good explaination that i came across is that it is viewed as dark because the emperor hasn't showed himself yet... Like, scholars that study that era didn't call it the dark age, but simply the age of tech

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 12:22 PM

#

N...

#

I was being sarcastic

#

Plz

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 12:22 PM

#

i mean this is lore chat

#

if u dont want lore gtfo

#

nekron

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 12:23 PM

#

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 12:23 PM

#

But considering that lord solar macharius declared that adrantis five turned to the dark certainties of science after destroying it it may also mean that technology is seen as something obscure

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 12:24 PM

#

Imagine if the imperium just goes so backwards it dissolves into Warhammer Fantasy

cerulean wagon Oct 12, 2020, 12:24 PM

#

technology is seen as a danger

#

in part because it was before

#

but also because the enlightenment of technology is a threat to the ecchlesiarchy

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

It's called "Dark Age" because there are few records from that time period. Same as the "Dark Ages" we talk about IRL.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

Huh, I assumed the irl dark age was called that coz it was a time where everything was a shithole

#

(more than usual)

rotund siren Oct 12, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

yeah, for Europe

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

Nope! It's just that nobody in Europe was keeping written records.

rotund siren Oct 12, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

that too

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

What does Roboute think about the dark age and AI?

rotund siren Oct 12, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

I think it was a time without much development

#

or something along those lines

#

meanwhile India was absolutely blowing up with tech, which is neat

#

well, "tech"

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

Tech is tech

#

Even if it's inventing better water bottles

rotund siren Oct 12, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

I meant like, looms and whatnot

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

That's pretty big tech

rotund siren Oct 12, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

I 'spose

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

Nnnnooot really? Europe suffered a massive sociopolitical collapse, and they were building themselves up from that. There WAS development - a lot of things date to that time period - but it's just not recorded.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

Especially seeing as it's come down generation to generation to where my mum teaches me how to sew clothes

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

The Dark Ages weren't the collapse. We have records of that. It's the rebuilding.

rotund siren Oct 12, 2020, 5:09 PM

#

wild

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

The "Dark Age Of Technology" is literally just a dark age - a period of time from which no records are known to exist.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:11 PM

#

Yeah it's called the dark age because of the lack of historical record, not because it was all bad or ruled by Darth Vader or something.

#

The actual dark age I mean.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:11 PM

#

They stored ALL their information on advanced computer systems and the like.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:11 PM

#

DAoT is, I always presumed, much the same?

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:11 PM

#

Then those systems were destroyed at some point.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:12 PM

#

Things were great but shit's all busted so now the books were last winter's warmth and the holowhatevers are all broke as fuck.

#

So it's an age... that we're in the dark about.

#

.>

#

Right?

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:12 PM

#

Crucially, there's basically no records of the cybernetics revolt. This is because when Old Night happened psykers started laying waste and everybody started getting fucked by demons.

#

THEN the Great Crusade came through and everybody who had the technology to resist the Imperium was laid to waste and their technology was destroyed.

#

So the records were destroyed by Psykers and Daemons, and any surviving records were destroyed by the Emperor

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:14 PM

#

That is a thing that happened. ||Fucking excellent scene go read the book|| in Prospero Burns.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:14 PM

#

The Emperor made a point of destroying all records from the period now known as the Dark Age of Technology.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:15 PM

#

Hey officially the Space Wolves thought ||I'm not spoiling it, seriously, go read Prospero Burns||.

#

So like that was officially not exactly intentional all of the time.

#

But then again he did send the Space Wolves.

#

So that's like being mad at your dog for eating the bacon you decided to play fetch with.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

It was definitely intentional when the Emperor ordered STCs destroyed and their libraries bombed.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

Yeah that was on purpose as fuck.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

So uh
What would Roboute say about AI n stuff

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

He'd probably have his dad's ultra-racist attitudes, I think is what Pseudo is saying.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

^

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

Big E is an absolute biological supremacist nutjob.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

The Emperor destroyed all the records and then blamed everything on technology.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

He uses living solutions even when personally in possession of superior machine solutions.

#

He's obsessed with bio-modding.

#

He's obsessed with psycher-tech. Note the entire plot of Master of Mankind for that.

#

So if Robobooty Girlyman is like is dad, he'll hate it.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

The Primogenitor truly IS one of the Emperor's Children :V

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

O o f .

#

But yeah, on the other hand, RB is not a total idiot, like Big E sadly gets written as.

#

They make a point of having him consider things.

#

So he probably suspects that his dad is full of shit.

#

But he knows not to rock the boat.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:20 PM

#

The Emperor refused to allow a walkman to exist without there being a human brain in it.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

That is factually correct.

#

Servitors exist for that now.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

Papa Smurf hates AI, and is kinda irked by Cawl making something that is a very badly disguised AI.

#

But it's too useful to destroy, and he has no proof.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

Oh right maybe I can ask here and not get a dumb answer
Ok gimme a sec to type

#

Ok so basically years ago I heard that the first ever space marines Emp made in a lab were really good warriors but they didn't have the brother mentality that other space marines will come to have, and it was said that they were actually more deadly because of their individual thinking. And because they weren't loyal, Emp tried to hunt them down but apparently a few escaped to this day

#

Some of what I wrote is probably wrong but idk

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 5:28 PM

#

That sounds like the thunder warriors... They were stronger and bigger than space marine

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:29 PM

#

Name rings a bell

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 5:30 PM

#

They were exterminated because it seems that they had a bad habit to stop following orders... And similar stuff... Some of them survived yes

#

I think that they were more human than SM... That is why they were killed, they weren't tools, they were humans who get enhanced, but not genetically loyal to the emperor, or psychologically

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:31 PM

#

But they were bigger and better?

#

They must have been really genetically modified

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

But they were bigger and better?
Bigger and stronger, better is not the right word

#

Well, it may be the right word, it depend on who you ask

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

Bigger in pure flesh size?

#

That sounds big

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

Bigger in pure flesh size?
Yes

#

Probably like the primaris are now

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

Ah was that the legion that overwritten the previous first ever legion

#

Something like that happened no?

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 5:35 PM

#

The first legion (dark angels) fought aganist some thunder warriors, but the bulk of them were killed by the legio custodes

#

So that may be the event that you were referring

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

Sure sounds like it

#

Checks all the boxes

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:10 PM

#

The Thunder Warriors were extremely deadly in combat.

#

IIRC, it took something like 3-5 Astartes to put down a single Thunder Warrior

#

And the Astartes had better equipment.

#

Ironic that Emps put down the Thunder Warriors for not being intrinsically loyal, when half the Astartes turned traitor.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

Memed

#

I don't quite understand the thunder warriors

Did they lack loyalty in general or was it just be emperor. Was their mentality more that of a modern day human?

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

They were more like modern day humans.

#

Except they were pulled from the ranks of the techno-barbarian hordes that wandered earth.

#

They were loyal because of leadership and motivation, rather than indoctrination.

#

Emps didn't trust anyone if he didn't completely rewrite their brain to make them inherently loyal.

#

Except Malcador.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

Seems kinda dumb, why didn't anyone try to reason with empy

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

They did.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

They died*

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

So he rewrote their brains.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

Same thing

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

Basically, yeah.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

Emperor kind of a bitch ngl

#

He might be the saviour of humanity but doesn't stop him from being a dickhead

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

Careful, you'll piss off the imperium apologist bootlickers with that kinda talk

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

Emps doesn't see humans as people.

#

Maybe it's too much time spent with the Eldar

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:27 PM

#

Emperor was with eldar?

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:27 PM

#

He values humanity, but not individual people.

#

Yeah, he spent like 15,000 years whoring it up with the Eldar while waiting for Old Night to happen.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:27 PM

#

We're the primarchs humans at one point or did he basically just think them into existence?

#

What's old night

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:28 PM

#

The Primarchs are his sons, mostly figuratively but also literally.

#

They were vat-grown based on his DNA.

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:28 PM

#

I think it's heavily implied that they were warp entities to some extent, given physical form in a vat
Corax hints at it in a conversation from a recent book iirc

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:29 PM

#

Old Night is the moment when the Eldari did their murderfucking so hard that they murderfucked Slaanesh into existence.

#

It caused warpstorms to ravage the entire galaxy, and ripped open the Eye of Terror, which is a place where the boundary between the Materium and the Warp basically doesn't exist.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:30 PM

#

So I guess necrons and eldari don't get along

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

If you want to know what Old Night was like for humans, just imagine Star Trek, and then have Subspace leak out into normal space and daemons fucking everybody into incomprehensible flesh beasts. Usually literally.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

How long have necrons been around? And have they always looked like...that?

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

Necrons have been asleep for 65 million years. They've been around much, much longer.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

Tfw you sleep for 65 million years but still wanna take over the galaxy

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

They started off as the Necrontyr, who were people who had the unfortunate luck to have their home planet in orbit around a highly radioactive star that caused them to suffer lives made entirely of horrible mutations and suffering.

#

Then when they escaped that star they found out that the damage to their species was permanent.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

Wait so

#

If it was a radioactive star, how did life even happen

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

Getting to that.

#

This wound up in them being extremely pissed that nobody else had that problem, and going to war with the universe.

#

That did not go well for them.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

Wow that's next level emo

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

Then they discovered that their star was awful because there was some sort of entity eating it.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

~~darth nihilus~~~

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

Those entities were very similar to daemons, but entirely from the Materium.

#

So the Necrontyr captured them and worshipped them as gods in exchange for better tools to make everything awful for everybody.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:35 PM

#

Materium or immaterium

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:35 PM

#

Materium. Physical plane.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

Who were they

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

The C'Tan, being what they were, were fully capable of finding a way to give the Necrontyr bodies of living metal that were immune to mutation and suffering.
The C'Tan, being what they were, also decided to make the process of going from biological bodies to living metal bodies remove the person's soul so the C'Tan could eat it.

#

Thus the Necrons were born.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

Aha

#

We're the OG necron race humans?

#

Or just humanoid

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

Absolutely not humans.

#

Evidence suggests they looked basically like the Tau.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

Ah

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

The Necrons are literally metallic versions of Necrontyr skeletons.

#

(This is why there's a fan theory that the Tau started as one of the Necron colony ships that got lost)

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

The C'Tan, were they just like any old race or were they full blown gods

I think someone told me that they were basically mortal gods

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

They were not mortal.

#

They were devoid of the warp.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

why are they eating a star is the real question

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

Munchies

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

Well, they're presented as being very daemon-like. They consume energy.

#

IIRC, they ate the life-giving-ness of the star's light or some shit like that?

#

Anyway, the Necrons killing their way across the galaxy and eating all the souls they could find was called "The War in Heaven"

#

Once the Necrons were done with that they smashed all the C'Tan into pieces (Now known as "shards") EXCEPT for the Void Dragon, then went to sleep until the galaxy restocked on souls.

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

There are shards of the void dragon

#

There's a new model for it

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

The Void Dragon was apparently such a bro that the Necrons never actually smashed him. He was helping the Necrons build the Cadian Pylon system well after that went down, and it wasn't the Necrons who did it.
We don't actually know how there wound up being shards of him

#

He's the least shattered of the C'Tan.

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

Right, I'm just clarifying that there are shards of that one as well

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:45 PM

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The Cadian Pylon system was a large network of devices that force the Warp and the Materium to be different things. When it was destroyed the galaxy was basically cut in half.

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Most of the Void Dragon is sleeping deep inside of Mars. He has been seen in books, and is presented as being not only non-hostile to humans but actually fairly polite.

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:47 PM

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Well, apart from throwing down with the emp and it being necessary to lock up permanently

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 7:48 PM

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emp pissed him off with his smug look is all

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:48 PM

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Or by going around killing people to prevent contradicting narratives.

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Emps engaged in straight-up bulk-rate genocide.

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:49 PM

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It's implied the fight inspired the legend of st george and the dragon, so way before the emp was taking much of an active role in things iirc

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:51 PM

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That's probably because the Void Dragon, based on behavior and characterization, would have intended to help humans build a pylon network to protect themselves from Old Night.

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Again, his big thing was holding back the Warp, and he designed and built systems explicitly for that purpose.

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(Also: Anybody who says Emps doesn't deserve at least a punch in the mouth is a fool.)

mellow depot Oct 12, 2020, 7:53 PM

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Nah

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He literally did no wrong

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:54 PM

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Read "Master of Mankind" :V

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 7:54 PM

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the way i read it the void dragon was just chilling on whatever planet it was and emps just kinda went to kill it because he it ate too much sheep or something

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it was really dumb

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:55 PM

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Dude sheep are delicious

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Very understandable

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 7:55 PM

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yeah but why is god void dragon in physical form eating sheep

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when he eats stars

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Emps is NOT St George.

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 7:59 PM

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Well yeah, in the same way that figures of history are not directly the characters in folktales that they inspire

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:04 PM

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Actually, it's because in Mechanicum the event depicted is taking place in Lybia in 1000-1500CE, and Saint George was circa ~300BCE

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And that was also a biological dragon, not made of living metal.

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 8:05 PM

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I do not recall anything close to a date in that old memory

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:06 PM

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I dont remember a date being mentioned either but this occurrence came from the dragons mind itseld

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as in we only got the info because the dragon talked about it happening

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Fair. I'm sure there could be some muddying of the waters re: time period when this is so far ahead in the future

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:07 PM

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I'm pretty sure it was allegorical.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Not even talked, it just implanted that memory

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Hmm... My memory must be failing me. Disquieting.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:08 PM

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TBH the void dragon story is so weird that verything about it make no sense, unless you exclude some pieces... I thnk that it will be retconnected in the near future

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:08 PM

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out of all the shit that doesnt make sense in 40k to get stuck up on the whole physical dragon getting beat by "knight" emps before the age of terra and somehow end up getting sealin on mars because of the flesh and blood body losing is just so weirddd

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its just so mixed up

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:09 PM

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I dunno, they still haven't retconned the Star Child or the Sensei.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:10 PM

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Oh, right, about the primarchs, they have a mother...

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They aren't only emperor DNA

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:11 PM

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It never seemed like they didn't, because they're obviously not clones.

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They've always been called sons.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:11 PM

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Well, someone said before that they are vat grown from the emp's DNA

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 PM

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They were.

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I never said they were clones.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 PM

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That is also correct.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 PM

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They've always been called sons.
Eeehh, that isn't really proof of anything

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 PM

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DNA was harvested from the "Mother". IIRC, she didn't even know about it until after the fact.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 PM

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No but it makes it unsurprising that they're his actual sons.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 PM

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They were grown in tubes under Mt. Everest.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:12 PM

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And TVF big E called angron with his number and not his name

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:13 PM

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He also referred to Angron as... "A broken tool"? "A broken experiment"?

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:13 PM

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DNA was harvested from the "Mother". IIRC, she didn't even know about it until after the fact.
Nope, she was completely loyal to the emp at that time

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:13 PM

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In master of mankind he straight up calls Angron a broken puppet

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:13 PM

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In front of him.

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That was it!

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:14 PM

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Yeah, big E don't see them as sons... But he let them call him father and he call them sons because it was a strong tool to get their loyalty

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:14 PM

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That doesn't make him not a genetic son it just makes Emps a shitty father which IMO is 90% of 30k's plot

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:14 PM

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Honestly, cutting out the Star Child from himself as a means to make himself more effective was probably the most short-sighted thing he ever did.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:15 PM

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Is that still canon?

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:15 PM

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Hasn't been contradicted.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:15 PM

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Never formally contradicted.

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So technically yes

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:15 PM

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I think that valdor (the book) disproof that

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:16 PM

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Wasnt Big E also the 13th apostle of Jesus

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:16 PM

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And he's still a sociopath who sees people as being tools to do his will, in spite of having once been fully capable of interacting with people with empathy.

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:16 PM

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animeemperor

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:16 PM

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He's kind of the worst.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:16 PM

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@storm jungle IIRC he claimed to BE Jesus.

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And Moses. And Muhammed.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:16 PM

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And he's still a sociopath who sees people as being tools to do his will, in spite of having once been fully capable of interacting with people with empathy.
I think that valdor (the book) explain how big E became what is now

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:16 PM

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And Sun Tzu.

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:17 PM

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He was everyone and no one

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👏

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:17 PM

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And basically every philosopher or great warrior.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:17 PM

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I think that Master of Mankind shows us that he was always a monster.

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:17 PM

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Nah the thing is with 40k lore never hold that stuff close to heart

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sooner or later we'll get another lore dump that'll contradict it

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because GW being consistent with Big E's character is as rare as a twin tailed comet

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:18 PM

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tbh i feel bad for big E

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:18 PM

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me too sometimes

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:18 PM

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its not HIS fault hes literally god

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and cnat comprehend us

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:19 PM

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Master of Mankind contains shards of his actual memory from his perspective being witnessed by one of the Custodes. It's hard to have a more solid perspective. We see him decide to be the biggest dick moment to moment throughout his history.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:19 PM

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See, he used to be able to comprehend people.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:19 PM

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It's compelling. He is an awful monster of a person and always has been.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:19 PM

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but i mean

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is he really making that decision actively or is it cold processing power

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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@green sedge Doesn't that just make it more likely that he cut out the part of himself that felt bad about being a monster?

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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cuz end of the day he wants humanity to survive right

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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yeah pretty much

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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It's canonically the first active decision he makes, actually.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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if hes gotta kill tons of people to save the rest hes gonna do it no questions asked

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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hes basically an "ends justify the means" kind of guy

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also his reaction to Horus fucking up everything up:

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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we talking about the kill his uncle thing?

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:20 PM

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📎 unknown.png

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:21 PM

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No no, legit, he's like "fuck these apes I'm going to be in charge now."

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In like scene three of the book.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:21 PM

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tbh im kinda fed up of the humans screwing themselves over

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:21 PM

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yeah its why i didnt mind that much

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humans throughout history and even now are clearly not that smart lol

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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every step of the way something cool is gonna happen and then someones just like... haha unless?

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Imagine living for more than 30K years trying to sheperd mankind and you see them fuck up all the time

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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^^^^

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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I'm not saying I mind. Big E is like my second favorite character. But he's 100% never a "good person" at any point.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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I'm pretty sure he caused a LOT of those fuckups.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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ngl if i was him id probably be even worse

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Sometimes not intentionally.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Oh that's why I like him.

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I'd be way worse!

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Yeah theres a reason "If you want to have peace you must prepare for war." quote exists.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:23 PM

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I'm pretty sure he caused a LOT of those fuckups.
Well, it is stated that he was behind the creation of most of the religions, and that he wanted to spread peace and well being, but humans always wrped his message

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:23 PM

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I can give a list of the most critical mistakes he made.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Why was he spreading religion if he exists to protect humanity from warp predators exactly?

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Like... Yeah great plan.

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A+

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:24 PM

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High on it is "Not telling his Space Marines what his plan for them is AFTER the Great Crusade, when he used his Space Marines to kill the last tool that outlived its usefulness"

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:24 PM

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Again, this is why you shouldn't compile Big E's lore to one complete list.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:24 PM

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Why was he spreading religion if he exists to protect humanity from warp predators exactly?
Religion is not something always linked to the warp entities

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Religion is a tool

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:24 PM

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Its inconsistent and has a lot of clashing stuff

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:24 PM

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If he had just done that then the Horus Heresy would have failed

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:25 PM

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He tried to use it, he saw how it was easily abused and dumped it

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:25 PM

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Oh holy shit you're kinda right, Pseudo.

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If they realized they had job security they wouldn't have freaked out so bad.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:26 PM

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Almost all the traitor Astartes turned because they were convinced that the reward for a job well done was a bullet to the back of the head. That is canon.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:26 PM

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High on it is "Not telling his Space Marines what his plan for them is AFTER the Great Crusade, when he used his Space Marines to kill the last tool that outlived its usefulness"
They knew... At least some of them... Why do you think that guillaman tried to make the ultramarine like good governors on top of being good soldiers??

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Actually it comes up kind of a lot pre-heresy that they really don't.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:27 PM

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That was Papa Smurf doing it on his own. Even the Primarchs didn't know what the plan was for after the Crusade.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Magnus certainly didn't, we know that.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Almost all the traitor Astartes turned because they were convinced that the reward for a job well done was a bullet to the back of the head. That is canon.
Not really, horus turned traitor because he feared that the empeor would betray all he stood, claming in the end that he was a god and all that stuff

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Every Primarch had their own idea what Astartes should be once the Crusade was over. They EACH trained them differently.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:28 PM

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Horus got played though. Like, deliberate misdirection was necessary to turn him.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:28 PM

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RG thought they should be government functionaries. Vulkan thought they should be emergency services.

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Angron thought they should be the war dogs kept to protect the borders.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:28 PM

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Horus got played though. Like, deliberate misdirection was necessary to turn him.
Yeah, still he tought that he was doing the right thing... Then get seriusly corrupted and bye bye

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:28 PM

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Magnus thought they should all just spend the afternoon in the library. That's all. >.>

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:29 PM

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Yeah, so every Primarch had a different idea of what the Astartes should be after the Great Crusade.

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Meaning none of them knew

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:30 PM

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I think they're obviously perfect navy boarding crews and pirate hunters, long term.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Yeah, so every Primarch had a different idea of what the Astartes should be after the Great Crusade.
Not everyone... Like angron, he didn't ever cared about the world eaters

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:30 PM

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So that's adding "get fucked" to the list, actually.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:30 PM

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I disagree with both of your statement Pseudo

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Which one?

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:31 PM

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Your statement supports his but ok?

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:31 PM

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The fact that every primarch had an idea of what SM should be after the GC and the fact that none of them knew

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:32 PM

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There are several HH books where traitor marines question what place there would be for them in the Imperium they were creating.

barren tapir Oct 12, 2020, 8:33 PM

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Are we talking about space marine or primarchs?

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:33 PM

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Loyalists also asked those questions, but ultimately decided it'd be worth it anyway.

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The Primarchs knew the Primarchs had a place afterwards.

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The Astartes did not know if the Astartes had a place afterwards.

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The Primarchs did not know if there would be a place for the Astartes, and were trying to create one.

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But everybody knew the Emperor would do what the Emperor wanted regardless of what anybody else wanted.

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It is canon that Emps didn't talk about his plan. It's a major theme of the Horus Heresy

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:36 PM

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^^^

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:36 PM

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He certainly didn't give them a seat among the Lords of Terra, and damn near everybody got a seat there.

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:36 PM

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Solar Fleet even.

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Which is hilarious.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:36 PM

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Everybody was assuming he was going to do to them what he had the Dark Angels do to the Thunder Warriors.

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(Yes, that was a secret, but it was poorly kept among the Astartes)

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 8:38 PM

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It's funny because if any of the astartes should have seen the writing on the wall re: thunder warriors, it would have been the terran born ones
But they were the most loyal amongst the traitor legions

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:38 PM

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You mean the Dark Angels?

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Or did you mean literally all of them, since they were all terran born?

primal tide Oct 12, 2020, 8:39 PM

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Just generally speaking

green sedge Oct 12, 2020, 8:39 PM

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Oh you mean the terran survivors.

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Yeah.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:41 PM

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Those would be from before he got the mind-wiping and reprogramming down pat.

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They'd probably still have a lot of memories of life on Terra before the Emperor, and their families at home.

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People are much more willing to die for a cause if they feel it's worth dying for.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:42 PM

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maybe they juse wanna die

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sadge

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:42 PM

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Its one of the reasons why the Solar Auxilia was so good

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:42 PM

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anyone else feel liek the random use of the word Sensei is super weird

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:42 PM

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I do

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again its just used because it sounds "neat"

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:42 PM

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It is super weird.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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its like where tf do we go from adeptus militarium to Sensei

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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BECAUSE IT SOUNDS NEAT.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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REEE

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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AND 80'S

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WOOHOO

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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Bad fake latin to random japanese.

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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Its the same reason as why the eldar use the ying-yang symbol.

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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GW regrets a lot of the decisions they made.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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woah woah

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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Theres a lore explanation sure

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But its just there because it looks cool

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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the fake latin is actually good

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:43 PM

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also agreed with Simp

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:44 PM

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these are fun words here

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:44 PM

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Bad fake latin is fine.

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It's a society in decay.

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But GW definitely regrets the three-marine blister packs that prevented them from having female marines back in the 80s and 90s, and baking that into the lore.

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Word-of-god on that one :V

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:45 PM

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Honestly i doubt they care

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female marines arent a thing because they just didnt sell well

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Its that simple in the end

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:46 PM

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Multiple factors, yeah

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:46 PM

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no female marines is honestly just dumb af

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:46 PM

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But 40 years ago was a different time, and now there's a market for a product they're locked out of making.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:46 PM

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the sororitas is coo l

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but even then the difference between sororitas and actual sister of battle

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is lame

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:47 PM

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They had discontinued the SoB for a long time, and brought them back because of public demand.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 8:47 PM

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"no female marines is honestly just dumb af"

I mean, they can make what they want

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:47 PM

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Yeah

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in the end its about money

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lol

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:48 PM

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Funny thing? Cawl and the Sensei mean they could make them just fine.

verbal nest Oct 12, 2020, 8:48 PM

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I would rather see a big hulking dude in 19 inch armour slaying daemons instead of a woman in the same situation

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:48 PM

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Sensei are primarch-equivalent, after all. They can have them templated off a female Sensei.

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:49 PM

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the sensei were all male too

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because 80's

vagrant osprey Oct 12, 2020, 8:49 PM

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Nope.

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:49 PM

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nah

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:49 PM

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I never saw a female sensei mentioned anywhere

buoyant crypt Oct 12, 2020, 8:49 PM

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she was like the first one?

storm jungle Oct 12, 2020, 8:49 PM

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it always mentioned them as male offsprings from the old codex i read