Party Recovery's healing power should predominantly be based on your Party size.

[fallow pine]

It feels wrong that "Party Recovery" skill is outshining other heals over time in the game even if used only on yourself.

Possible solution:

• Lower the base healing and merge it with Sins of the Many passive or just provide boost to healing per party member nearby.

[waxen sun]

The skill party recover its just better to use in groups, but want to the skill be useless when its x1,2x2? … doesn’t make sense, just cancel the casting

[fallow pine]

Currently this skill is absurdly strong in 1v1 scenarios and channeling isn't much of a disadvantage as you can cast it again as interrupts don't block the skill except like shadowkick that nobody uses.

It just doesn't feel like party recovery skill, but a 3x stronger Regenerate.

Banner has nice healing but is easily destroyed. Party Recovery doesn't care as long as you finish casting it which you eventually do.

[sacred leaf]

Rename it to "Omega Healing over time and pt recovery" then, the strongest heal over time, has one of the best cards for healer that amplifies HoT even more.

All in in that proposal, Im playing mostly healer, was playing a lot of runesmith/arcanist long ago, this spell is overpowered, just like precision shot.

[waxen sun]

So the issue its to enter in cooldown if the cast its cancelled and not decrease the strength of the skill…

[fallow pine]

it won't happen as skills need to be activated (even partially) to go on cooldown

VVV Shadowkick makes you unable to cast the same spell for 3 seconds or so

[sacred leaf]

tbh that should be a thing long ago, if someone gets interrupted with spell designed to interrupts (like shield throw), then it should be on cd, idk if shadow kick doesnt have this

[fallow pine]

I love wasting a skill to interrupt other skill only to see it channeled again. Apart from partially active interruptions like quickfire/frost shards there is almost no benefit to interrupt them 🤷

[sacred leaf]

pt recovery has almost no channeling time, gl if someone have haste, its not like frog/meteor /spirit rangers which are easy to interrupt and gain some advantage through these seconds, with spells like pt recovery/rain of arrow its just a matter of pressing button again, yet if someone interrupted that, he should be rewarded with killing someones cds

[waxen sun]

So what I saying the issue its this, and not because the skill itens broken, if a skill its interrupt should go back to cooldown, if the own person cancel moving sure, can only cast again, but receive interrupt should enter in cd

[sacred leaf]

there are 3 interrupts in the game, pummel, shield throw and shadow kick (dk ) would be nice to see this addition to it

[waxen sun]

Pummel enter all for 4s, but the skill interrupt itself should enter on cd

[young thunder]

A lot of healing feels op in rift because they can run for so far. Simple change of map, size, spacing, control areas for bonuses, etc. Think of mining engagements or buildings; there remains less room to kite (run away) so shadow and melee gain some terrain advantage. With the ability to run almost the whole rift away, healing over-time will seem strong, however, is this the case in other scenerios? GvG? During rifts, there are also mobs, which makes healing over-time more important, because the timing of engagement is not always certain. The Spiritual Tree has some very interesting unexplored gameplay, but perhaps the community is bored of the multiple (4?) shields, and heals in the same tree? I don't know, I think party recovery is pretty vital to the tree, which has very little in comparison to Generous Influence, Circle of Light, or any of the cards on the Holy Tree.

[waxen sun]

Man, i play with dk, and I won already with all arcanist, hex warden players… the only one which can win from me its arcanist felix, only fighter its full counter of dk, u just need to play better and u will not care much about party recover

The issue with holy its just because use too much mana, so its always unviable to rifts, even for 2x2 holy its sucks 😒 spiritual do the same as holy because shield > healing, after protection get nerf for sure spiritual will be the strongest archtype, so will need to have a skill or poison to hit under shields or hit more on shields

[sacred leaf]

true, he's stomping all hex/arcanists, only felix is the good one

[sacred leaf]

playing more than 200 wisdom is a warcrime and should be bannable

my random banter after hearing that amount of ppl doing tp->whirlwind into running away for infinite healing increased today, most unskillful yet disgusting and unbalanced way of playing (it's indeed overpowered)

[waxen sun]

Who else its playing with the arcanist besides me? The mostly issue with this build its because havok its the most op passive in the game, if havok doesnt exist, people wouldnt use more then 200 of wis, because wouldnt have damage

[sacred leaf]

most issue with this build is that there's no counter play to barriers which are op, tp+whirlwind running interaction, even average kindergarten kid would have good winrate while abusing spiritual

but I guess its just bad archetype design, spiritual doesnt exist anymore for melees on rift, its rare in open world, its just stronger solo holy with 4 air type spells

[waxen sun]

Marshal its too op lol… but need alot of gear to work, and need full heal power (at least one part), but its totally viable)

But I agree, every move should be some how to play against, like, unchained need to be nerf to 4s because loose the only counter which was force leap circle, but the issue its not the party recover healing, its the play of whirlwind + teleport + party recover, has some counter plays, depends of position, but its not a skill itself, example, before u could lock with force leap and avoid be push away, and finish killing

[sacred leaf]

doesnt exist on rift, 0.1% of playerbase can pull of this build only if they are already using phys archetype, have all trophies so wisdom isn't lacking, and probably requires lege+ on everything so you have enough ap/dp and you can go into healpower so build works

[waxen sun]

Yeap, the same as sage which only work in legendary plus

[fallow pine]

Many players played Arcanist, including me. It has similar winratio and is the only mage counter to Hex Wardens, especially high wisdom builds (who will die vs good DKs/Fighters). I stopped using it as I couldn't find a good action bar setup that doesn't cause mindfuck when I switch back to Hex Warden on OW.

Plus, the META way to utilize Arcanist on rifts is to do it the Felix way - by becoming a semi-healer. I never put Party Recovery in my build as it was disgustingly OP and passive (boring). Even when I played Runesmith I would rather use Air Aura.

Havoc is OP, right. But mages are too dependent on RNG. Havoc is RNG, Dispel is RNG... These are skills/passives that determine the whole outcome of the fight

[waxen sun]

Havok isnt that rng, when has 32%, frost shard with more critical chance, u will proke all havok stacks for sure

And yes, dispel for sure its full rng, because its break change if u take out the right buff from him or not

[fallow pine]

No, you won't. Especially that crit chance card on Frost Shards is dependent on Frost Stacks (the ones you stack through Frostbolt that nobody uses).

[sacred leaf]

so ur telling me, you prioritize going full prec and having no crit dmg amp?

and also you're using frostbolt and frostshards that deal no dmg card?

• you're actually casting it with 0 channeling time redu?

on rift 100/100 archers will use quick fire
1/100 mages will use torrent/shards cuz they have nothing else to cast and it will deal 1/10 dmg of quick fire

[waxen sun]

290 prec, 110 impact

I normally use the one which increase damage each stack, Curse, leech, regenerate, its easy to proke havok

[fallow pine]

easy or not, it's not consistent enough. All it takes is a short unlucky period to go from 3 stacks to 0 and it makes all the difference

[young thunder]

No, you are 100% correct, barriers are the problem with this archetype, they have no counter and they are uninteractive (they have no ability to show how big or small the shielding is). Then you put 4 shields on 1 archetype, and it feels bland. Solution: Continue the progress on horizon's call: haste/windstrike/ support/dmg/utility instead of invisible, and uncounterable shielding

Keep in mind, this archetype lacks: anti-heal, AoE, CC and anti-CC. It is one of the most niche archetypes in all game-modes. Marshal, I used with specific cards in Rift and still did not do very well. And I was using Bow. I am sure that some of you vsed me before the cards were equalized and I swapped to Dark Knight.

[waxen sun]

@sacred leaf yeap, the issue with some arcanist its really this combo, and not be able to counter, but the issue isnt party recover itself

[sacred leaf]

it is tho, highest HoT healing, lower mana cost than spirit resolve, cd ain't that big, it lasts for long time

and im saying this as a person which has stated long ago that runesmith/arcanist that abuses 300wisdom even if he's "in certain way handicapped " will have positive winratio

[waxen sun]

The issue with the mana cost, but 15s seconds for a skill of 4 points its fine i think, and he is able to use without u can cancel him, and cancel doesnt add at least some cd to try again

[sacred leaf]

oh yeah, that one second gained which you just waste on shieldthrow/shadowkick and equals exactly to GCD you wasted while casting it, it doesnt change anything, reuse pt recovery and enjoy the most broken heal ingame

problem with arcanist/runesmith is that pt recovery cards are overpowered, and barriers are broken

yet we only need to balance either pt recovery, or punish people abusing high wisdom builds which depend on not dealing dmg but absorbing it like sponge (unskillful and disgusting way of playing)

[waxen sun]

So u agree, if party recover enter on cd or get a cd of 10s at least, and nerf whirlwind to move just 2 sqm (u can bull rush if u was close to him if use in the right moment), could be a possibility?

[sacred leaf]

whirlwind first card - disarm, huge attack power debuff on enemy
whirlwind second card - push (which is good) and random ass confuse that is long af
whoever thought of this was high on something just like when producing fierce leap cage*, sinister plot 100% crit chance, precision shot for 4k dmg with no setup, and 9 frostbolt charges to crit with frostlance

[waxen sun]

Idk how will work on rift, but the atk debuff isnt in your total spell/weapon def, its take % based on your weapon(like staff), I need to check how work in the rift itself because weapon doesnt give eu stats

[waxen sun]

If decrease 1 sqm of push, u could do bull rush, and force leap(so have a counter, but right now force leap isnt a counter at all

[fallow pine]

He was stating the general contrast of the two cards. Disarm doesn't work on Rifts because your weapon doesn't have stats

[sacred leaf]

ah yeah, so the only counter to disgusting unbalanced 600 spelldef and 400 heal power build is still fighter/dk and other abominations that are focused on weapon power

you don't see that it wouldnt fix a damn thing cuz ur doing tp into whirlwind and you're out of range already?
the unbalanced thing: high af healing
idea of balancing it?: it must have been the one sqm difference in whirlwind push

I already saw ppl using wind wall already in rifts, these ones are cheeky
idk what happened lately that this much ppl started abusing it, maybe it's a way to make us quit doing rifts

[waxen sun]

Ifs its 50% to win in others cases its fine, like fighter its totally counter of dk(thats why I m training with arcanist, to have other build to have chance to win against fighter)

But with dk I normally won of every hex warden, arcanist, But I stopped using dk after the force leap HUGE nerf

[sacred leaf]

pt recovery is boosted sooner or later they have to do something with it, probably in march when they do phase 2137 of ravenquest

[waxen sun]

If u can interrupt party recover and the skill enter in cd, block mechanics which make be impossible to get to cancel party recover would be a nice nerf( whirlwind + teleport)

[young thunder]

@waxen sun You make discussions on the english-side very hard to read with your level of english writing

[young thunder]

Why are you guys talking about builds that are OP in very specific cases (300 wisdom) and, surprise, they are against you (other healers, mages). No build that wins vs Mages and loses vs 100% Fighters and Dark Knight is a good build. This is a random game mode, and your opponent is random. Just because you lose to some "cheese" 300 wisdom runesmith or whatever build, does not mean A) that it is a good build and B) that anything about the "cheese" should be nerfed. There are infinite other possibilities with weapon+archetype+primary stat combos for different game modes. Spiritual is one of the least used archetypes, and lacks, 1. anti-heal, 2. anti-cc 3. dmg 4. aoe 5. stat modifiers (only 45s haste).

This class has very long cooldowns (Bat and Force Push cards extend the cooldown even more), which makes the celerity passive almost a must-take. So, from my perspective, a Wisdom/Weapon Power user (We did Marshal and SpellBreaker), this archetype is barely tangible. However, the things that I find strong and playable about it, are knockbacks, crowd control and DPS (only on windstrike). Other than those early-tier spells, everything at the bottom of the tree generally feels meh. Party Recovery is probably the only reasonable ability and it is because of the card that boosts your allies self-healing, healing efficiency too. With no stat-modifying abilities, Party Recovery is actually the ONLY ability that scales well on the archetype. Where as Warfare and Prot have tones of abilities that scale off of Armor or Damage. The thing is. The tier 2 healing ability on Prot (spirit's resolve) actually heals more than the tier 2 Spiritual healing ability.

With all the bonus stat checking added to this game in Horizon's Call, through augment stones + weapon/warforgeing, this archetype will soon be left in the dust due the the nature of scaling shields and scaling armor in Prot, and the mix of Attack Power with Wizardry Crit and Extra Armor Shred on Warfare scaling with augments/war forgeing as well. Quickfire crit + Weapon Augments, etc. Spiritual archetype will definitely have it's time in GvG and in Mage vs Mage fighting, but keep in mind that these situations you bringing out are the rarest situations and game-modes. While the majority of the engagements of PvP in this game are still Fighter vs Fighter

[waxen sun]

Sorry man my grammar isnt good :s, isnt my first language

[fallow pine]

Just so you don't misunderstand - 300+ wisdom arcanist build is better than any other mage (due to spell def and stronger heal-power based heal/barriers) and is competitive against any other class. Like other mages, they lack WD, but they can offset it through an easy and broken "run & heal" where party recovery plays a big role.

It doesn't "lose to 100% fighters" if you are playing it on an "okay" level. Arcanists aren't widely used on rifts because with the usual, offensive stat distribution they are hard to master and most people don't like playing a Healer-Arcanist who keeps running and casting Party Recovery.

[waxen sun]

Against shadestrike and dk, isnt that good, every class has a counter

[fallow pine]

comparable to Hex Wardens. Both cases you need to time your defensives

Also Fighter doesn't have a counter

[waxen sun]

Hex warden is good against fighter lol, u just not playing right

[fallow pine]

There is a big difference between "good" and "counter". Counter is when a build has the upper hand against the other by default (like Fighter is a counter to DK).

There is nothing in Hex or Arcanist build that makes it superior to Fighter - it's just the contrast of WP/SD vs SP/WD that makes the pairing somewhat equal.

Fighter is by far the most versatile class in the game.

[young thunder]

This entire thread is titled Healing Power Based on Party size, in yet, this entire thread seems to be about non-party rift balance, mage vs mage 1v1. The title suggesting, Party size, in yet, that ability exists already, as a passive. It's called "Sins of the Many". In fact, in this archetype 4 out of the 6 passives are, simply, "heal more/shield more". Really this archetype has the issue of, only scaling off heal power, and have oppressive barriers. (which was already very nerfed, last spring I believe). There is a world where barriers could seem less bland and could feel more impactful if they had a visual indicator for the strength of the barrier on HP bar.

The Spiritual Archetype needs the Warfare treatment to be brought up to pace with archetypes that just scale better off of defense or attack power, or raw stats. Like I have said before, I think long cooldowns and too many barriers with 4 heal power passives is too bland and boring for an archetype that should be creative. Some of the coolest spells on this class are the windwall, force push, and whirwind, but the last two have insanely long CDs (extended with the cards), and Windwall has no scaling. Not to mention the 60s cooldown for Windstrike, the only reliable damaging ability. (Also the cards on this ability, I use Pummeldillo for PvE and Mysticap Mushroom for PvP/single target, neither of which scale very well, as Pummeldillo hardly does any splash damage and is certainly not usable in PvP at the current ratio of splash damage, and the other is so minimal that the devs had to add to the write up how, it was working, but the numbers were so insanely low that no one could notice. LOL! What a card!)

[waxen sun]

So please just nerf protection instead lol… its waayyy more op than spiritual

[sacred leaf]

so, after yesterdays duel tournament dont you guys think that party recovery is a little bit overtuned?

a little

[fallow pine]

One skill allowed the fight between two Arcanists to be neverending - yeah, could see some tweaks.

[young thunder]

I am just going to leave this here 😂 😂

[sacred leaf]

it does nothing

[young thunder]

Give Spiritual Anti-heal. Problem solved!

[sacred leaf]

you haven't watch any of these duels didnt you?

[young thunder]

Or take it into rift with you! To maximize BUGGIES 😄

[sacred leaf]

I just want to say that if skill point rework ever comes to ravendawn and for future of ravenquest, party recovery has to be nerfed because on rifts with blue cards and upgraded pt recovery to max it works as a legendary card with 30% less cooldown

[young thunder]

First off, we are listening to someone who cheats on rift using poisons. But, on the topic. The game's maximum health cap is extremely punishing, so there are no tanks. The healers are the tanks. Below is an image of Shielding based on my Weapon Power open world build. Where the shielding more than exceeds an entire health bar. If graphically, they added a visual shield bar ontop of the HP bar to show the power of shielding, it would be nerfed tomorrow.

[waxen sun]

Its crazy which u guys trying to do with spiritual 🤣 lets be protection the mostly broken archtype for 6 months 🤣, we only seen arcanista because we re overcapped, otherwise hex warden would be WAAAYY better, the healers are the tankest because protection not spiritual lol

[young thunder]

Like, if you wanted to be a melee without protection, how would you play the game PvP? The Arcanista doesn't do very well on Light Blade PvP, but as soon as Scepter (/w magic wand), it is like you can exceed to cap on HP, or even double it, while gaining ranged attacks. I do not want to derail the conversation. You guys have said a lot of interesting things in here about 300+ Wisdom PvP, and mage vs mage. Like my perspective is coming from Dark Knight on Rift, where arcanist is killable and Spellbreaker on open world, where I am just a tank, because I am a melee that does not RMT, so I have no other choice, but to use this archetype with protection

I believe healing has counters, while barriers do not.

[sacred leaf]

who's doing that and is it even possible? cause it feels like accusation, and I've never seen you on rift

[waxen sun]

Kinda has, break def instead of damage, and when the shield go down do the damage, has dispel as well to do so