god talk.

[exotic sentinel]

H

@formal cairn

So basically

[formal cairn]

3 year old timmy at the same place at hitler

[exotic sentinel]

The reason god is not giving you the results of your hard work is because he has better plans in the future

[formal cairn]

Thats why i stopped being religous

[exotic sentinel]

What did Timmy do 💀

[formal cairn]

He ate to much cake

Poor timmy

[exotic sentinel]

Why would he go to hell for eating cake

[formal cairn]

Its gluttony

[exotic sentinel]

How do you know he isn't forgiven?

[exotic sentinel]

So basically you think he went to hell for eating to much cake?

[formal cairn]

To be forgived u have to pray to god and never sin agian

[exotic sentinel]

Dawg

You will sin no matter what

That is in nature

[exotic sentinel]

And yes praying and repentance is needed

[formal cairn]

Why did god make nature sin?

[exotic sentinel]

He didn't

He gave us free will and look what we did

[formal cairn]

I sin daily tbh

Its an addiction

[exotic sentinel]

We all do it's our duty to stop sinning

As much as we can

[formal cairn]

But i have made some progress

[exotic sentinel]

It's inevitable but can be avoided

[formal cairn]

I took away a part of the sin

Soon il be hopefully sinless

[exotic sentinel]

You cannot be sinless

Only Jesus is sinless

But you'll be better in the eyes of god

You cannot hope to stop sinning forever but you cannot sin forever regardless

[formal cairn]

Ok so if u pray u whole lifetime go to church etc but still touch ur wienier u will go to hell

[exotic sentinel]

It's like this.

God knows we sin but he forgives us.

We avoid sin and he is happy and he rewards us.

We still sin but god knows that

[formal cairn]

and if u wat morw than u need

[exotic sentinel]

Not how it works

[exotic sentinel]

If we commit lust and repent we are forgiven

And we commit sin on a daily basis

[formal cairn]

90 percenr of teenagers lust

[exotic sentinel]

That's why we pray everyday

[exotic sentinel]

Exactly.

[formal cairn]

Hornyness is a gift of god

[exotic sentinel]

Weather it's envy lust or wrath it's inevitable

[exotic sentinel]

It's not

It's a curse of the devil

God did not make sin

We made sin

[formal cairn]

Ok so if i workout 24 hours a day i will be blessed by god

Bcs u said i will get results if i do that by god

[exotic sentinel]

Your hard work will be rewarded in time

[formal cairn]

Poor people aint building no muscle beceause they have no protein

[exotic sentinel]

What's your point?

[formal cairn]

They starve to death and even of they go to church they would die

[formal cairn]

If god exist why dosent he bless people who overtrain

[exotic sentinel]

Probably because they're over training?

To much of everything is bad

[formal cairn]

God loves hard work

[exotic sentinel]

Hard work and over working is two different thing's

[formal cairn]

Never seen that in the bible

[formal cairn]

Still same thing

[exotic sentinel]

dude it's moral law

[formal cairn]

Not god words

[exotic sentinel]

Hard working is working hard to achieve a certain goal over working is working to much that your neglecting yourself

[formal cairn]

Is theyre a limit how much u give to god?

[exotic sentinel]

God's words is to take care of yourself and stay healthy

[exotic sentinel]

No

Overworking is in the sense is working that your hurting yourself or other's by working to hard

[formal cairn]

Why do the same people who go to church and those who spend their whole life to god end up in the same place

[exotic sentinel]

Wdym end up in the same place?

What place?

[formal cairn]

Heavrn

The guy who spent their whole lifetime to god should be more blessed

[exotic sentinel]

There is no being more blessed than others there is no being more faithful than others there is only equality in god's eyes

[formal cairn]

So if jimmy looks at some girls butt he will end up in the same place as hitler

[formal cairn]

That is not equalty timmy dosent belong with hitler

[exotic sentinel]

If jimmy repents for what he has done and is ready to surrender his sins to Christ he can be forgiven

[exotic sentinel]

If Jimmy feels no remorse but lies he will go down

[formal cairn]

Some people have these addictions in there genes

[exotic sentinel]

Have you heard of the 2 thieves?

[formal cairn]

Its much harder for somr people

[formal cairn]

Yea

[exotic sentinel]

That's why you should overcome them

[formal cairn]

One had no god the other has god

[exotic sentinel]

That isn't an accurate description

[formal cairn]

Ok

[exotic sentinel]

The first thief said: if you are TRULY the son of god come down from this cross

The second thieve said: don't you fear god? We belong here but him he has done no wrong

Lord. Remember me in heaven.

And Jesus spoke and said

Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Can you see the difference?

The second thieve didn't say he deserved to be in hevean

But only said to Christ to remember him

Meaning he knew the sins he has committed

And feels remorse and repented to the lord

[formal cairn]

Ok what if u commit to god but u only do it to get in heaven

[exotic sentinel]

Then you will not be accepted

[formal cairn]

I respect god

[exotic sentinel]

Good

To get into heaven is through the love of god and through the way you love him.

Love god and love his way's you will spend Paradise with him

Love him unconditionally

[formal cairn]

Dosent it say that if u dont repent from ur sins u will suffer eternal hell

[exotic sentinel]

Yes

[formal cairn]

Ok

[exotic sentinel]

I literally just explained this through the 2 thieves story

[formal cairn]

Ty for the talk tho

[exotic sentinel]

My point is I'm not trying to win the argument

I'm trying to tell you how god forgives and how god love

[exotic sentinel]

Ur welcome bro

And remember what I said and Take it to heart bro

[grand tusk]

Who lied to you?

[exotic sentinel]

One sin doesn't make you automatically go to hell

[formal cairn]

Ohhhhhj

[grand tusk]

Wym its doesnt?

[formal cairn]

So repenting is just loving god

[exotic sentinel]

Well yes through repentance you show love

[grand tusk]

Anr TRYNG to change your ways
Its not ok to sin
But tryng to make a change matters

[exotic sentinel]

Basically the first context is Jimmy is eating to much and dies

Gluttony yata yata and I had to explain it

[grand tusk]

Gluttony refers to addictions
Like food
Or drugs
Or alcohol

[exotic sentinel]

Yep

[formal cairn]

Well what if somone just do it to go ro heaven

[grand tusk]

Its normal lol

[exotic sentinel]

If they don't feel remorse or repentance whatsoever then you go down

[exotic sentinel]

Yeah we sin all the time lol

[grand tusk]

You cannot know God with out knowing love

[exotic sentinel]

We just avoid it

To be better

Hebrews 10:26-31
English Standard Version
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This a pretty nice talk so far

@formal cairn if you have any more questions just ask @grand tusk

Cause I gotta do something

[whole mason]

He was born a Jew, immediately deserving of hell.

[whole mason]

Most faiths see it like a set of scales - do more right than wrong and you're on the right path.

[whole mason]

Well that's bs. If we were being equal, the righteous pagan and and the saints would have the same standing, which is not the case.

2 Corinthians 12:2 (ESV), I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.

[whole mason]

Why would God care what I think of him? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a benevolent God to demand adoration.
If I die having lived a good, honest life but do not embrace Him then surely He wouldn't cast me aside for something as petty as not being religious, no?

[grand tusk]

Where did that came from?

[grand tusk]

Most
But not Christianity

[grand tusk]

Why would a parent care for his Childs view on them?

Also

ON WHOS judgement you lived a Good life?

And did what was good?

[whole mason]

Just a joke

[grand tusk]

Honestly
I saw too much Anti-semetism to even know at this point

[whole mason]

Most Catholics certainly but I can definitely think of some protestant sects with that view. Depending on how pedantic you want to get, Mormon subsets could also be included. Christianity is one very, very big umbrella.

[whole mason]

Fair

[grand tusk]

Any Christian who went thru the Bible knows that only the Sacrifice of Christ
The Son of God and the Son of David
We can reach heaven
The bible makes it clear that our deeds dont get us into heaven
And multiple times encourages us to seek Christ with confidence

Literally the Old Testament says the same before Jesus was even born

[whole mason]

A fair point, but what parent would abandon their children for taking the wrong path? I for one don't get along well with my father but I know damn well he would never do so unless I diddled a kid or worse. Not saying my father and God can be equated but you get the point - it takes a lot for a parent to disown their children and I struggle to believe He would do so when there is any hope of saving them. He has eternity to redeem them!

[grand tusk]

God is our Father but also the Judge

If your dad was your judge and heard you killed someone
Or diddle a kid he would put you în jail as its fair
So why shouldnt God
The creator of our Wolrd not punish you for not following the law HE gave you to follow?

[grand tusk]

Btw most Christians that believe this also didnt read the bible
I know personally becaus i used to believe the same lol

[whole mason]

Well one could make the same argument about anything. Regardless of the origin, there are some base moral and ethical standards that the vast majority set. I don't think there's much need for any specific definitions here, I doubt we would difer much in beliefs there and we'd just be talking semantics anyway

[grand tusk]

Yes
But God sees more than you can see
If God (a being who sees things beyond what you Will never see)
Tells you "hey dont do this or later someone Will get hurt "

Whos fault it is you decide not to listen

[whole mason]

Our deeds must matter. If our deeds can get us into hell, how can the same not apply to heaven? The bible also says that only 144,000 people will be saved when the time comes, do you believe that to be so? Very few truly believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and I would be inclined to believe that is not how it is intended.

[grand tusk]

They do
But Good deeds dont get us to heaven no matter how much you think they do
Also show the verse for the 144000 thing

[whole mason]

But is the breaking of every law an equal offense? I, for one, cannot see how an otherwise good man who doesn't believe is on the same level as a murderer or rapist who was otherwise "good"

[whole mason]

I shall grab my Bible and find it when I get through the rest of this. It's midway through Revelations.

[grand tusk]

Do you think there should be a timer for how much we stay in hell?
Like "you killed a man 10 years
În hell
You were a junkie ... 5 years"

[whole mason]

Most Christians who believe anything didn't read the bible. Hell, I spent most of my school time at a private Catholic school where the only people I could discuss specifics with were the priests... Even among those who do, there are those who simply place less emphasis on it. All Catholics, for example, by definition, believe the church has greater authority than the bible.

[grand tusk]

True lol
Only reazone I started to learn about the Bible was becaus I was a Atheist for like 2 years untill I got slowly curios
And I asked one of my Christian friends on discord to answear me some questions

[whole mason]

Ours, it is true, but if God forgives all but the worst sins in life then why would he choose not to forgive in death? It is certainly presumptous to ask these questions but if we are destined for an eternity either way then it seems utterly strange that those who made poor decisions for a finite period are deserving of an infinite punishment.

I just don't see how God, if He is truly good, could do such a thing. If second chances are so very integral to everything He chose to present to us of his expectations for us then it just doesn't seem likely that He would revoke that the moment you die

[grand tusk]

Becaus God does not allow sinners in heaven

All sins are meant to be punished

You think something is small and not important
But at the same time you dont know how much later on its affects the world

God knows all the effects of our sins
All the rezults
For you the sin is small and not important
But its still ends up doin more dsmage than we can fanthom

[whole mason]

If I were to be the one deciding I would not have a timer, but simply let everyone move on when they've become someone worthy of it. Though it doesn't really matter for this conversation

I'm not saying that what I believe would be best needs to be what happens, just that I don't think it is likely that God, being good, would utilise a system that is antithetical to all of his other actions. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking, but I prefer to believe that the human interpretation or altercations to the bible are simply wrong than that this eternal punishment is the case

[grand tusk]

Trust me
Everyoe wishes

[whole mason]

Sorry I'm typing these out so much slower than you btw, I want to present what I'm saying perfectly

[grand tusk]

But The thinh with Truth is that
Most times we never like it and we try to deny it
Or even silence it

@whole mason remeber what Jesus Christ called Himself to be? (Exept the Son of God)

[grand tusk]

Its ok lol

[whole mason]

For me it was the opposite. As a boy I wholeheartedly believed what my teachers and peers said, it was only through my own study and, ironically, the priests at the school I mentioned earlier that my beliefs shifted away from Christianity.

[grand tusk]

Mainly I see becaus its looks too Harsh for the Ideia of God you have in your mind

[whole mason]

Ah but again that raises the question of why have an equal punishment for unequal crime? As well, the punishment will always outweigh the crime. Eternity is always going to be a larger deal than whatever you've done wrong

[whole mason]

I can recall several monikers, but I presume you're looking for "the way, the truth and the light"?

[whole mason]

What do you mean?

[grand tusk]

Ok we gotta look a bit becaus currenty we are stricking multiple topics at the same time

[grand tusk]

God is Truth righ
So why do you think Ultimate truth
Will always be something you agree with?
If God never once said something that you dissaprove of
You are not thinking of God you are thinking of yourself as a being who knows better
So ofcorse for us ultimate Punishemnt seems a lote
But God the one who commands us to follow Him
It is not
All crime is equal for God becaus He knows the consequences of our sin
That we May never actually know

Lets look st this thru a different Angle shall we?

[whole mason]

Revelation 14:1-5. Mine is CEV but all translations refer to the 144,000

[grand tusk]

We already talked about this dude 😭

[grand tusk]

.

[whole mason]

Yeah I know, I was just putting it there since I didn't earlier

[grand tusk]

Ok

[whole mason]

Sure.

How can I know what is the true God's truth? From my point of view, all I see is a great number of different interpretations. I could accept it if I know, for a fact, what the truth is. But it is not clear. What's the parsing process here; whose rules should I follow?

[grand tusk]

Its hard lol
No one said youll get truth on table as eazy as we wished
Ussually thru time and study we get closer to God

Well

@whole mason
2 tips I can give to you since currently its 4 am lol and I need my rest
1 Truth Will hurt most times and
2 I suggest try a prayer

[whole mason]

Sleep tight, bro. Good talk

[exotic sentinel]

Nahh my point is someone's faith is no greater than another's faith

But a person can be closer to god

Than other's