Israel-Palestine 2023 War News

[bitter hollow]

I get an impression that it exploded above the roof and that fragments went from outside to the inside through the roof, based on how edges look around some of the holes.

[valid sapphire]

It's probably this location?
31°31'25"N 34°26'32"E

[fair magnet]

Most warheads/shells are elongated, so when it contacts an obstacle and detonates (assuming point detonating fuze) you're still going to have a good part of the warhead or shell above the point of impact. 120mm (585mm long), 60mm (300mm long) mortar rounds pictured.

[bitter hollow]

Would not holes from fragments be more elongated (because of the shallowness of the angle they impact the roof) if the shell exploded as soon as it touched the roof? (not an expert, asking to learn)

[fair magnet]

Some of the holes look elongated, and the size of fragmentation from a munition is going to vary

[fair magnet]

I don't think so. The roof of that pin looks concrete, and looks like a multi story building while the roof of the impact is sheet metal. This screen cap of Saleh Aljafarawi carrying a girl lightly wounded in the attack appears to be about right here 31°31'25.3"N 34°26'37.0"E

[orchid nymph]

Please spoiler with content warning for others sensitive to visible injuries.

[fair magnet]

Sorry about that. Here's it with spoiler.

[glacial leaf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdwKv3qcrJQ

[orchid nymph]

||https://vxtwitter.com/alihashem_tv/status/1723084463721037830?t=BVu5iHNeEZzOxH00VsWfNA&s=19||
What kind of munition is being used here??

[pulsar falcon]

think a spoiler tag would be good here

imo the cadence of explosions is too high to be standard airstrikes - assuming all the explosions are strikes then probably some type of large artillery barrage

however, it could also be secondary explosions from hitting a large munitions cache

from this video there's not that much to decide on tbh

[bitter hollow]

likely from the same event ("Indonesian Hospital", multiple explosions, people running, no injuries seen) ||https://vxtwitter.com/mahmoudem2000/status/1722656860824625615||

[red hinge]

I could be wrong but it looks like secondaries from exploding ammo. Can't say definitively without more information though.

[tight kernel]

No description was posted with the spoiler so I'll describe - some kind of munitions strike in/around an ambulance; no injuries seen

[tight kernel]

No description was posted with the spoiler so I'll describe - some kind of munitions strike in/around an ambulance; no injuries seen

[bitter hollow]

One more video from the same event, AJ says it is at "Indonesian Hospital in the northern Gaza Strip" (multiple explosions, people running, no injuries seen) ||https://vxtwitter.com/AJArabic/status/1722662835627405496||

[bitter hollow]

I do not know if those are secondary explosions or a lot of bunker busters or something else. But would like to know - I've seen similar sequences of explosions on Gaza skyline live streams.

[red hinge]

Upon closer inspection it could be artillery (or mortars maybe?), there's what look like projectiles in the air during the first second or so of the video

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1723098554204307764 reportedly another video of the event

[woeful jewel]

I'm nearly positive it's same, a fire belt bombing, blasts forming a perimeter or belt around hospital that is

https://vxtwitter.com/aldin_aba/status/1723099474963132616?s=46&t=ZHeS7rMUpmBPthnMp_vXgQ

[topaz oriole]

holy shit

Disclaimer, Palestinian TG ||https://t.me/a7rarjenin/81713|| TG Post edited <t:1699649580:t> 🛑 The condition of the paramedics in front of Al-Shifa Hospital now, west of Gaza.💔💔

[formal musk]

Link?

[topaz oriole]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqLav6DV1iY this stream is also getting more and more active

[glacial leaf]

Date, time, location?

[topaz oriole]

unknown, but it is VERY active around Al-Shifa hospital right now

[velvet bison]

I think that's what we're supposed to figure out here

Fwiw, the telegram message sent above says al-Shifa hospital and some of the people in the video have Palestine Red Crescent shirts on

[topaz oriole]

Time stamp on TG of that vid was <t:1699649580:t>

[thick shadow]

Al Awda Hospital last night per description: https://www.instagram.com/p/CzcBguytrdH/

[glacial leaf]

Check this alternative YouTube channel for more footage just to the east of the Chiosphotos.gr frame which shows the regularly illuminated part of Al-Shifa Hosptial. Comparisions here: #1160893738973929493 message

[topaz oriole]

Thank you

[velvet bison]

The tg must have had the location wrong

Yep, sorry

[glacial leaf]

looks like it's alternating in framing/zooming on both since they should both be the same

[topaz oriole]

It's getting reposted as Al-Shifa hospital then on TG atm.

[glacial leaf]

ok so which is it? Al-Shifa or Al Awda?

[velvet bison]

Unclear

[velvet bison]

https://vxtwitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1723161240040607756

[clear olive]

Story from @wissamgaza on IG about strike at Al-shifa. Seems to be about the same time as the video you posted https://instagram.com/stories/wissamgaza/3233328498088070974?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

(This stories disappear in 24h, so now 22h left...)

[fair magnet]

Why do you think it's a fire belt bombing? In this video #1160132507472244839 message, all the explosions seem to be relatively in a line/similar location. Also I do think it might have hit some ammo storage, as it sounds like there are small arms rounds popping off, at :08 - :09 you see a explosion on the right that resembles more of a "fireworks" type explosion than an HE, and at :28 - :29 you see a small fireball much smaller than the regular explosions.

[woeful jewel]

Honestly because I trust Aldin a lot as a source. But maybe it isn't

[fair magnet]

I'm just going based off the video I linked to whose POV shows the blasts, which they seem to be fairly concentrated, and appear to be causing some secondary explosions.

[woeful jewel]

Urgent | Reporter #الجزيرة : Communication with journalists inside Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza was interrupted

https://vxtwitter.com/AJABreaking/status/1723186991695528432?t=QQTUh2MlrcBSrZeeFulj1A&s=19

[glacial leaf]

NEW: Views from Within the Gaza Bombardment

In an exclusive view of frontline footage from the first few weeks of the bombardment of Gaza, we hear directly from some of those impacted - video contributed by @Mohamedelsaife2
.

Full story: https://unicornriot.ninja/2023/over-10500-killed-in-one-month-as-israel-continues-its-war-on-palestine/

Thread 🧵||https://vxtwitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/1723069306102046864?s=20||

[earnest gyro]

should prob spoiler that link

[clear olive]

Also MSF reporting on that in the comments under the video https://twitter.com/MSF/status/1723184714029179045?s=19

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/Mohamedelsaife2/status/1722978610749854112

[velvet bison]

Posted in #israel-palestine first but Israel's official October 7 death toll has been lowered from 1,400 to 1,200 #israel-palestine message

[hollow turret]

Yeah, this video at Al Awda was geolocated in the thread here: https://twitter.com/Amir_Intel/status/1722970000669950242

(also I shared a sync with the other Indonesian Hospital video -- fairly sure both videos caught the same set of blasts based off the audio: https://twitter.com/JakeGodin/status/1723017594435699053 )

[thick spruce]

https://vxtwitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1723331612719370436?s=20

[clear olive]

Report on besieged shifa hospital by Norwegian doctor who I believe was allowed inside Gaza but is in the south rn https://twitter.com/DrMadsGilbert/status/1723298615429304677?s=19

[thick spruce]

He worked at Al-Shifa for 16 years, I believe, but I would have to dig to find where I read that

Edit: has worked stints there, not permanently

[clear olive]

I just know he was waiting in Cairo for a long time to be allowed in and must have been allowed in this week

[calm harness]

I'm not sure he is in. Very green trees in the background.

[grand tapir]

Don’t want to get too much into it, but would take what he says with a pinch of salt. Has explicitly supported terrorism previously.

[clear olive]

Like what exactly are you referring to?

[grand tapir]

30th September 2001: “- Støtter du et terrorangrep på USA? - Terror er et dårlig våpen, men svaret er ja”
Translation: “- Do you support a terrorist attack on the United States? - Terror is a bad weapon, but the answer is yes”

https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/forsvarer-angrepet-pa-usa/65752046

[clear olive]

I wouldn't trust dagbladet much either though

[grand tapir]

It’s a direct quote from an interview. It’s not spin or a fabrication. It’s a direct quote.

He said that he supported terrorist attacks on the US just days after 9/11. At best that shows ridiculously poor judgment. At worst it shows someone who openly supports terrorism and Islamic extremism.

[valid sapphire]

https://unwatch.org/unrwa-tells-reporters-to-interview-norwegian-supporter-of-911-attacks/

Here it is

His few may be more than controversial, but that doesn't mean the report of him is false

[orchid nymph]

His scarf bears a common signature pattern familar to the Palestinian keffiyah. That's a sort of signaling. (Clarifying: not suggestingwhat he is signaling, that isnt my point here.)

[valid sapphire]

I have one in black and one in red. C'mon.

[thick spruce]

Quote from the director of Al-Shifa: “One member of a medical crew who tried to reach the incubator to lend a helping hand to the babies born inside was shot and killed.” https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/11/we-are-minutes-away-from-death-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-under-attack

[grand tapir]

Let’s not get into it too much. Reasonable people can support Palestine.

I would just caution on relying on the word of someone who has openly and explicitly supported terrorism. That is entirely different from showing solidarity with the Palestinian cause.

I think this is helpful to bear in mind, especially given much of the events surrounding Al-Shifa Hospital. Much of the commentary surrounding Al-Shifa and the Hamas HQ (which the US, Israelis and experts report lies underneath) uses his testimony as evidence that it does not exist.

[clear olive]

Eid_yara also reports bombarment around al shifa (she is in London but her best friend is stuck there ): https://www.instagram.com/p/CzgHEhoggmx/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

eid_yara

العنوان اول شارع عايدية من جهة الشفا
الفيلا الي حجر قدسي ببداية الشارع
الشارع الي انقصف فيه جامع الصابرين
رقم [phone]

I am on the phone with my friend and they are saying their final goodbyes… please please someone do sth please
They’re injured and bleeding

Likes

20165

Instagram

[orchid nymph]

I also have several as do members of my family.

I didn't say what it was signaling. Just that it is.

[orchid nymph]

That's not what I'm saying.

We are on the same page.

[grand tapir]

Ok great. There was a bit of ambiguity there, apologies for assuming.

[orchid nymph]

My mother speaks two dialects of Arabic and I grew up with a Koran and Kalil Ghibran's poetry.

I'm not adversary to that culture.

[clear olive]

https://twitter.com/MedicalAidPal/status/1723312812892606776?t=8MTVT_7VU-c3fZLKJ4_PAA&s=19

Medical Aid pal reporting on al shifa

[clear olive]

Yeah I guess there's really no real evidence he is inside Gaza. That's weird

[orchid nymph]

My mistake for leaving it open ended. Clarified original message.

I appreciate the civility.

[woeful jewel]

There are, for instance, olive trees in Gaza, this is very ambiguous though

[old rover]

Thanks again for the civil discussion, but please remember this is the breaking news channel.

[clear olive]

https://t.me/jnenjnen/126011

Google translated from Arabic "Red Crescent: Israeli tanks and military vehicles surrounded Al-Quds Hospital from all sides, in parallel with artillery shelling, the entire building was shaking, heavy gunfire at the hospital and a number of casualties whose number is not yet known."

Same report issued about an hour ago from @palestiniansrcs on X https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1723351807089402342?t=VQN2yYI1odmIEJLmwVu9VA&s=19

[clear olive]

https://t.me/mohmasri0/11725
Google translated from Arabic: "Today is the day of the war on the Al-Shifa Medical Complex, which is under heavy fire, and due to the ongoing violent bombing, the Ministry of Health today was not able to accurately count the number of martyrs and wounded."

[waxen forum]

He's not in Gaza, in this interview from yesterday he was in Jordan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpxP-de4bY
In his pinned tweet he says he wasn't allowed into Gaza https://x.com/DrMadsGilbert/status/1720561319412195507?s=20

I haven't seen Mads Gilbert claim he's in Gaza and as far as I can tell he's just repeating the same information coming from Red Crescent, MSF, and other orgs inside of Gaza. So it's probably all second hand

Mods said to cease Mads location talk but I thought it might be worthwhile to point out that he's not a primary source for news.

[glacial leaf]

At least quote him in full context. Dr. Gilbert has dedicated so much to helping the people in Palestine who have been under extreme oppressive, apartheid conditions. His work in hospitals, repeatedly, year after year when Israel is bombing children should not go unmentioned. He is not currently in Gaza likely because he can only enter through the Rafah border as he is banned in Israel who control all the the entrances/exits to Gaza. @grand tapir I detect you may have a malicious agenda when you are only offering smears of him but fail to mention his life saving work in hospitals in Gaza. Here is his full quote as used in his Wikipedia entry: "In a statement made to Dagbladet in the wake of the September 11 attacks Gilbert stated: "The attack on New York did not come as a surprise with the politics the West has followed the last decades. I am upset by the terrorist attack, but I am at least as upset over the suffering that the US has caused. It is in this context that 5000 dead has to be seen. If the U.S. government has a legitimate right to bomb and kill civilians in Iraq, the oppressed has a moral right to attack the U.S. with the weapons they may create as well. Dead civilians are the same whether they are Americans, Palestinians or Iraqis." When asked if he supported a terrorist attack against the US he answered: "Terror is a poor weapon, but my answer is yes, within the context I have mentioned."[55] (The citation is the Dagbladet interview.)

[orchid nymph]

Gentle reminder this channel is for news. Discussions to limited extent in #israel-palestine

[clear olive]

https://instagram.com/stories/abdullahobead/3233847186600406942?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

[thick spruce]

MSF doctor Tanya Haj-Hassan reads out a message from the director of surgery at Al-Shifa asking for safe passage for medical staff https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzgYGNnoxED/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/manniefabian/status/1723409570226217250?s=20

[woeful jewel]

Because it cuts it off:

[thick spruce]

Interesting, considering MSF is reporting that a sniper shot four patients https://x.com/MSF/status/1723397577016479823?s=20

[woeful jewel]

I would not know how or why that came about

https://fxtwitter.com/Yonatan_Touval/status/1723407416149053788?s=20

[thick spruce]

Okay?

[glacial leaf]

Dr. Salmiya, the director of Al-Shifa, says no such assistance agreement has been reached but that the IDF only is allowing them one hour to move patients but are not allowing ambulances and incubators for babies who need these in order to transfer. (as per interview with the doctor on Al Jazeera English.)

[short yacht]

Could you link to it please

[glacial leaf]

The interview just ended a couple minutes ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCNeDWCI0vo

Spoiler from the interview because there are dead bodies wrapped in shrouds in the upper right screen.

[raven warren]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-11/ty-article-live/israeli-army-fights-hamas-inside-gaza-city-denies-airstrike-against-al-shifa-hospital/0000018b-bc72-dea2-a9bf-fcfef8b30000?liveBlogItemId=1772655030#1772655030

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said at a press conference that he would not agree to relinquish security control of the Gaza Strip "under any circumstances."

Regarding the hostages, he said, "The cabinet’s decision is clear – there will be no ceasefire without the return of our hostages."

"Hamas has practically lost control of the north of the Gaza Strip. It has nowhere safe to hide. To the Arab leaders who care about the future of their countries in the region – you must stand up against Hamas. In the 16 years of its rule, Hamas brought disaster to Gaza and brought only two things: blood and poverty," Netanyahu said. 
When asked about "the day after" and the possibility of the Palestinian Authority entering the Gaza Strip, Netanyahu replied: "I repeat: total security control with the ability to enter whenever you want to eliminate terrorists who could re-emerge." ```

[woeful jewel]

Sounds like at most a West Bank model where Palestinian Authority has some responsibilities but IDF can be and is in there often

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/msf_canada/status/1723450373745062057

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1723432646150090762

[glacial leaf]

2 doctors killed by Israeli bombardment at Mahdi Maternity Hospital in Gaza as reported on Al Jazeera English.

[woeful jewel]

https://vxtwitter.com/TOIAlerts/status/1723530094445285577?t=PwmJ-mM2F1jxex62PLMu5A&s=19

[hoary wasp]

bad news for UNIFIL, an unidentified peacekeeper was shot and injured by an unknown party
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67385263?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6550b3e02ea49e2bc009ab51%26UN says peacekeeper shot in Lebanon near Israel border%262023-11-12T12%3A15%3A45.920Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:b4188aaa-57c3-4b4f-99e9-eb3e024f13b2&pinned_post_asset_id=6550b3e02ea49e2bc009ab51&pinned_post_type=share

https://vxtwitter.com/UNIFIL_/status/1723652811395645575?s=20

[pastel mountain]

I wonder what was his nationality. I think Lebanon has a lot of Finnish peacekeepers (I know a couple of guys that volunteered for a year there after their conscript services & passing one of the more demanding exams of the military)

[old rover]

There have been lots of nationalities involved over the years. If this were up-to-date, I'd say statistically it's morelikely to be an Indonesian or Italian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon?wprov=sfti1#Contributing_countries

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/DeItaone/status/1723692320346775608?s=20

https://fixupx.com/BarakRavid/status/1723701658436141357?s=20

[nocturne void]

that doesn't make much sense
is there a video of netanyahu saying that?
it goes against what he's promised before and military logic

[tight kernel]

Also interesting in that one quote is "Hamas refused it" and another is "hospital refused it"

[hoary wasp]

what is UNIFIL's mandate vis a vis military force? I don't want to get mired in the weeds of the UN's effectiveness but at what stage of escalation on the border will UNIFIL get involved, if at all? they're very well armed for a pure observer force but they're simply taking the hits...

if needed can take this to #israel-palestine actually

[tight kernel]

Yeah do that I think

[nocturne void]

and why would Hamas ever refuse to receive fuel
unless there were strings attached

[woeful jewel]

@nocturne void
@tight kernel

So the big picture according to Israel and US is Hamas defeat without unnecessary civilian losses. I think what's the implied dispute here is did Netanyahu really determine that provision of fuel to the hospital wouldn't undermine the war effort or is it a trick.

[tight kernel]

Yes. (Or the hospital). Finding the interview will help with understanding

[tight kernel]

Yes we know.

[nocturne void]

but if shifa is the hamas command post (which I believe and which is definitely netanyahus position) then how would it not undermine the war effort.
also netanyahu has previously promised that no fuel would enter gaza, why would this suddenly change.
also again why would Hamas or the hospital say no

[hoary wasp]

probably recommend this be shifted to #israel-palestine as well tbh

[woeful jewel]

Sure

[fervent fable]

The IDF and Mossad do not seem to share you or Netanyahu's surety in that assessment, by the way: https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hamas-gaza-shifa-critical-1842857
There is vanishingly little evidence available to the media that a major Hamas operation lies underneath the hospital. It's possible that after it is taken by the IDF:

1. The claim will be vindicated and evidence will be provided.
2. There will be evidence of a Hamas presence near and around the hospital, or within the hospital, but it won't be major, or Hamas would have moved considering a decade of Israeli focus on Al Shifa.
3. There will be very little evidence provided that Hamas ever maintained infrastructure under the hospital.
   Lack of surety about Al Shifa from IDF intel sources makes me lean towards 2.

[fervent fable]

Interesting, I wonder if it just mean that the hospitals are run by Hamas (the civil administration of Gaza). According to past two days of reports, Israel controls the vicinity around the hospitals, I don't know that they'd need to negotiate with Hamas's military to get things in and out. There's still fighting nearby, so perhaps they do.

[nocturne void]

idk how u are reading all that in that article
from what I understood, one former military Intel officer believes that shifa might not be as big of a deal as it's been made out to be on the outcome of the war and that sinwar and deif might not be there
but he says there's tunnels under there and that "they may have left" which means he thinks they were at some point there which at the very least says theres a pretty high level military base there
regardless that's not the "idf and mossad" rather a single former idf and mossad person

[thick shadow]

The article you linked only mentions some ex-idf/mossad guy, nothing official or from current mossad/idf sources.

[tight kernel]

We've also seen Newsweek go downhill in #russia-ukraine-eastern-europe too

[woeful jewel]

I've spoken with a former Israeli journalist who stated that he would be very doubtful the top Hamas officials who had still been in Gaza wouldn't have fled several days ago, at least out of North Gaza

[valid sapphire]

Hospitals are protected u der international law. I know that there are voices saying in this case it isn't a war crime. Bibi faces international and inner critic for continuing and that might is the cause for several confusing statements.

[nocturne void]

that makes sense
but still there could very much still be a big base there
also keep in mind that it's not easy at all for hamas top brass to move around without getting airstriked and that hamas very likely did not expect Israel to get so far so fast

[tight kernel]

In case it was missed, we shifted here, and now we have parallel discussions re: the hospital and fuel

#1160132507472244839 message

[hot glade]

Full video of the interview is here, am watching it now https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-netanyahu-everyone-in-the-world-is-sitting-on-the-bleachers-197679685846

[tight kernel]

Can you repost in #israel-palestine ? Thanks!

[fair magnet]

Not a legal scholar, but this article mentions those protections aren't absolute. https://www.npr.org/2023/11/10/1212073968/israel-gaza-hamas-war-crimes-hospitals

[tight kernel]

I'm going to up the slow mode on this channel to give everyone time to move the discussion to #israel-palestine

[valid sapphire]

That's what I meant, thx

[woeful jewel]

I believe they like moving around via tunnels. However, many of these have probably been caved in via the massive bunker buster air campaign and thus we cannot necessarily assume escape was possible

[valid sapphire]

New in the ICD, Channel-Confusion

[tight kernel]

If people read from top to bottom it's not too bad...I think....

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/Faytuks/status/1723729259632480672?s=20

[woeful jewel]

Deleted

https://vxtwitter.com/Faytuks/status/1723717544622608886?t=_dhBUInXGI0Yf4czUv8lTQ&s=19

[fervent fable]

That's fair, though the article does not just "mention some ex-IDF/Mossad guy", it contains an interview with him. As for its officiality, it's not uncommon for former analysts to have greater latitude for criticism of policy than those currently in government, particularly if it could undermine a campaign. But that's just my speculation.

[thick shadow]

Thats right and they usually have less intel than current officials. I read Yossi Alphers words more like pushing against the expectation the IDF will get Deif/Sinwar there or the ground operation will end shortly after Al-Shifa is under israeli control. We’ll see

[thick shadow]

IDF statement on the fuel issue: https://fxtwitter.com/idfonline/status/1723747781792194820

Last night, the IDF coordinated to transfer diesel fuel for urgent medical use to Shifa Hospital. Early in the morning, an IDF force arrived near the hospital and placed 300 liters of diesel fuel for urgent medical purposes. Later, the IDF received evidence that Hamas officials prevented the hospital from receiving the fuel

[fervent fable]

Note that they say "Hamas officials", not militants.

[woeful jewel]

The main claim is it was diverted, regardless of it was the armed wing

[fervent fable]

This isn't the disinfo thread, I'm highlighting their wording not fact-checking the claim. If they did attempt to give fuel and it was indeed rejected, then the words "Hamas officials" likely refers to hospital staff.

[woeful jewel]

The last sentence sounds to me more like diversion than rejection

[grand fiber]

That seems speculative.

Both positions.

[woeful jewel]

There's purported intercepts IDF provides but they're in Arabic with Hebrew subtitles. I need translation

Same tweet

[fervent fable]

Several Israeli newspersons I've seen on X used the word "refused": https://vxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1723697309479829631?s=20
Unclear situation.

[woeful jewel]

Well good point, as to why we have grounds to dispute a diversion, on top of whatever else

[fervent fable]

That and the use of the phrase "Hamas officials" makes me wonder if hospital staff are refusing Israeli aid, but as you said other aources are stating "Hamas officials are not letting the hospital use fuel", which is more ambigious as to where fuel is ending up, if anywhere.

[woeful jewel]

@nocturne void

[thick shadow]

There is a recording of the conversation between IDF and gaza hospital staff (?) in the tweet. Reads to me (autotranslated) like hospital staff asked hamas/gaza health ministry about the fuel and they refused. maybe an arabic speaker can give a word for word translation? (https://twitter.com/idfonline/status/1723747781792194820/video/3)

[woeful jewel]

https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1723752097743593490?s=20

[fervent fable]

First audio: the IDF soldier in a heavy Hebrew accent tells them they're going to leave gallons of gasoline at the junction of Omar al Mukhtar and Nasser street. He says their forces will back up and to send an ambulance to pick up the gasoline.

Second audio: partially unintelligible to me. I cannot read the Hebrew subtitles. Is a short clip that provides almkst no context. First person mentions "there's a problem". The other asks "what happened?". First person says: "(Unintelligible) ...what's the amount? We will try to convince them."

[fervent fable]

Who "them" is may be clarified by this tweet. It seems the staff - who have reported several deaths to Israeli gunfire - are reluctant to get the fuel themselves.

[woeful jewel]

Yeah, I was discussing this with a Lebanese doctor and he said all it said was something about the amount. And so yes you're not really getting the whole conversation

[woeful jewel]

Is it possible it isn't even fuel mentioned? Yes.

[fervent fable]

Seems this perso has direct contact with hospital staff, from previous tweets describing calls with them. I was skeptical when they claimed so at first but then AJ calls to the hospital backed up what they said.

[woeful jewel]

Tirawi seems to have more Palestinian sources than anybody

[fervent fable]

Yes, first call fuel is mentioned, second call there's no mention of fuel I could hear. Furthermore it's not a call with the IDF so would have to have been tapped and recorded.

[valid sapphire]

300 l is a joke, but it isn't a typo?

[bitter hollow]

He specified the source of this info: "Per: Al-Araby TV"

[woeful jewel]

Reputable source in my experience

[fervent fable]

The video posted by Israeli sources shows a few large canisters, seems to track.

[orchid nymph]

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-hamas-sky-news-latest-updates-12978800?postid=6757378#liveblog-body

Sky news translation?

[umbral pilot]

In the video, it appears that the soldiers are carrying Jerry Cans. At around 11 seconds the camera shows the number of cans delivered to the hospital, which by my rough count, is 15, in two different colors. Volume wise, Jerrycans hold up to 20 liters of fluid, which would be 300 L of diesel, presuming that all of the cans are full of diesel fuel.

[grand fiber]

That is a strange claim. Some quick back of the envelope math shows that that would equal a power draw of at least 2-4 MW which seems very excessive.

(going with an efficiency of about 30%, which is the lower end for diesel generators)

[short yacht]

How're you calculating that?

[grand fiber]

(300L×38.6MJ/L×0.3)/15minutes
38.6MJ/L is the energy density of diesel. 0.3 is the efficiency of the generator.

You can just plug the formula into Wolfram Alpha for a quick calculation.

It's really just a rough ballpark number.

[short yacht]

I work on diesel engines so this is interesting to me. Curious what kind of generators they'd even be using. I imagine they are old and in various states due to lack of maintenance, etc. Probably Cummins or CAT

[velvet bison]

Isn't there a rule against doing math somewhere

[grand fiber]

I think there's an equal change that the generators are quite new and decent. Emergency generators are pretty easy to ship and install as foreign aid. Compared to other, more sophisticated medical machinery. Especially in an area with an insecure power supply, that seems like something that would be prioritised.

But that's just speculation of course.

[velvet bison]

That's what I was thinking too. Especially at hospitals

[short yacht]

What do the numbers look like of you plug in 15 - 30 hours

[grand fiber]

1.93-3.86MW

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/academic_la/status/1723763066133987636?s=20

(Meaning Lebanon)

[short yacht]

For some perspective perspective my Ford Diesel truck holds 150L in its main tank, and that's good for 650 miles (1050km) of travel

From: https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/content/Caterpillar/CM20171018-16608-06673

https://www.hfmmagazine.com/articles/1712-critical-features-of-emergency-power-generators

So if they have two in parallel and the generators are running 100% load mission critical output that's ~860 litres per hour

[grand fiber]

That would be 3.6MW power output.

[short yacht]

So really it depends on the model of generators, how old they are, how well they are maintained, what the average load on them will be for a given interval (assuming it's always above standby power), and other issues.

[thick shadow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/12/hamas-planning-terror-gaza-israel/
(https://archive.ph/1h4Nj)
*Hamas envisioned deeper attacks, aiming to provoke an Israeli war
Evidence gleaned since Oct. 7 shows Hamas terrorists prepared for a ‘second wave’ of assaults amid hopes of inspiring violence in the West Bank and beyond *

[short yacht]

Wouldn't it be 4.3MW? Or are you looking at continuous?

[grand fiber]

Do you mean 4.5MW?

I looked at the number that doesn't take power factor into account, because apparent power breaks my brain.

[short yacht]

Listen I can (barely) do differential equations but arithmetic isn't my strong suit lol

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1723774623282594132

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/YWNReporter/status/1723782428479627740?s=20

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/Faytuks/status/1723788189825908865?s=20

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/SecKermani/status/1723773833352487330

[grand fiber]

10,000L per day? That seems… implausible.

To be fair, I have no idea what the sustained power consumption of a hospital would be.

Okay, that's roughly in the 400L per hour range.

[short yacht]

One of those CAT gens running 75% continuous load would use 6184.8L over 24 hours

[grand fiber]

Especially if you prioritise, it should be easy to shed quite a lot of load from normal hospital operations. So 75% load still seems very high.

At least enough to keep life support equipment running for quite some time from 300L.

[short yacht]

It really depends. Would need a lot more technical information about the hospital to know for sure. I do think it can be said that it's not outright implausible given the available information.

[gusty breach]

A big power drain is going to be sterilization, especially when you’re out of disposable dressings and having to sterilize other things to use.

[short yacht]

Yeah autoclaves n such can use a lot of power if you're having to constantly run them

[grand fiber]

That's a good point.

[fervent fable]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/at-least-94-000-liters-of-fuel-needed-daily-to-keep-critical-functions-running-at-major-gaza-hospitals-who/3034513

94,000 liters of fuel per day for 12 hospitals. Al Shifa is the largest of them and is currently overwhelmed with injured. If divided equally between hospitals that works to 326 liters per hour per hospital if my math isn't insanely off.

[thick spruce]

Al Jazeera: Gaza deputy health minister from inside Al-Shifa https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzjrYwut6Rk/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Twitter, if you prefer: https://vxtwitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1723780982514360731?s=20

[gusty breach]

I found a study about modern hospital steam sterilizers that showed an average of ~150kwh per day with minimal use at night. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27075773/) A smaller autoclave is likely going be more than that, probably in the ~200kwh area. Sterilizing liquids takes more energy than fabric, but its still a lot of energy and they're probably running them constantly right now.

[glacial leaf]

How about negotiations for Israel to simply turn the elictricty back on? What a nightmare for any country to be dependent on another for such infastructure.

[bitter hollow]

Not sure that power delivery infrastructure is in good enough condition in Gaza city currently.

[fervent fable]

I wonder if the shooting at the ICU and staff is a consequence of the theory that the hospital is a Hamas stronghold or lies above one.

[grand fiber]

Not the place.

[thick spruce]

It seems like that’s the justification Israel is using for the focus on Al-Shifa, so yes, that would make sense.

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1723763992986849368

I wonder if that is regards to Al-Shifa? If so contrasts w/IDF:
https://vxtwitter.com/Channel4News/status/1723787815211721081

[woeful jewel]

https://vxtwitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1723796424888828275?t=K_tQ-4xGF9GBc3GZqmM0eQ&s=19

https://vxtwitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1723796608779759639?t=K_tQ-4xGF9GBc3GZqmM0eQ&s=19

https://vxtwitter.com/Apex_WW/status/1723822256885788878?t=YN3LwFdnvVR0n1ec9klZ2g&s=19

[tight kernel]

Political maneuvering goes into #israel-palestine (see pinned post with channel description). News about the hospital can stay.

[woeful jewel]

Noted and not a problem

[clear olive]

Could you explain what this is supposed to mean ?

[woeful jewel]

He spoke to them and doctors and nurses can't work at all anymore, basically

[clear olive]

Ah the world health organisation

[fervent fable]

Netanyahu's spokesman: https://vxtwitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1723802577094037875?s=20

He also liked then unliked of the responses is ridiculing the idea of independent verification by international bodies in the case that Israel states that it has found massive Hamas infrastrucuture under the hospital, as per the 3D video shared by Netanyahu:

https://vxtwitter.com/CraigGurianNYC/status/1723805526922834129?s=20

[woeful jewel]

Yes, the head official at WHO

[grand tapir]

Posted in #middle_east-north_africa but I think tangentially relevant here #middle_east-north_africa message

[glacial leaf]

What appear to be Israeli forces in Gaza City according to these Snapchat posts: https://map.snapchat.com/ttp/snap/W7_EDlXWTBiXAEEniNoMPwAAYY3R2ZXl6bW50AYu9gbm6AYu6a8ImAAAAAw/@31.550451,34.524438,10.08z; https://map.snapchat.com/ttp/snap/W7_EDlXWTBiXAEEniNoMPwAAYZ21mamRieGh2AYu9goXfAYu9goXTAAAAAQ/@31.550451,34.524438,10.08z; https://map.snapchat.com/ttp/snap/W7_EDlXWTBiXAEEniNoMPwAAYZ21mamRieGh2AYu9goXfAYu9goXTAAAAAQ/@31.550451,34.524438,10.08z; https://map.snapchat.com/ttp/snap/W7_EDlXWTBiXAEEniNoMPwAAYZmF4dHNya25kAYu9f_tgAYu9f_tXAAAAAQ/@31.550451,34.524438,10.08z; https://map.snapchat.com/ttp/snap/W7_EDlXWTBiXAEEniNoMPwAAYdHlza2x6bXRkAYvBJhykAYvBJhyYAAAAAQ/@31.515848,34.447841,11.66z

[hot axle]

https://vxtwitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1723850169454645428

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/or_bit_eye/status/1723906172644655142?s=20

[nocturne void]

sorry for the late reply
do u still need help?

[nocturne void]

second clip (according to subtitles)
now there is just a problem in shifa but be patient with me.
what's the story?
Abu rish (director of hamas health ministery) doesn't want the amount (the fuel), we are trying to convince him

[nocturne void]

I think the second call is a call with the idf
u can hear hebrew in the background meaning there's an Israeli there

[pastel mountain]

What's the latest on combatant casualty estimates? I remember hearing IDF at 46 a couple days ago which is remarkably low (though I suppose in large part enabled by aggressive pre-emptive fires at buildings on their way?)

[mellow sky]

https://twitter.com/qudsnen/status/1723761324201541867?s=12.

Hi, am new to OSINT but not to this conflict sadly. What would be needed from an OSINT perspective to help verify/disprove the claims in the link above? (Posted here as I’d consider it ‘news’). Thanks.

[formal musk]

If I were working on this, I'd:

1. Do a reverse image search of that picture to see where else it's popped up online
2. Find pictures of that school from before to conflict to see if it's the same

[grand fiber]

Note that there likely isn't a way to verify or disprove the part about them being civilians using open-source research methods. A quick reverse image search shows that this image is also being shared with the claim that it shows Hamas captives. It happens a lot in this conflict that both sides share the same media but with opposite claims. If you manage to find additional media and context, maybe. But just on its own, there's ambiguity.

[mellow sky]

Thank you both. There is a fairly detailed thread from an individual on Twitter claiming the men are relatives of hers and providing personal details on each. Could conceivably be false information I suppose. I imagine the only way to continue to prove/disprove would be through interviews or access to individual Facebook accounts etc. which I presume would lie outside the realm of open source research methodology . https://x.com/ShaimaZiara/status/1723554943167037518?s=20

[ember pond]

Just fyi, this photo was geolocated by @oblique brook https://twitter.com/happygibbon123/status/1723694747858960756

[pulsar falcon]

also fwiw it could be some true information (the IDF arrested the men that are relatives of them) mixed with false information (the IDF stomped the head of the cousin/using them as human shields)

imo this is out of the realm of OSINT

[fervent fable]

Worth noting that she posted reports of their detention before the image was posted. Probably true.

[woeful jewel]

QNN has spread disinfo before and has been discussed in here in the IP disinfo thread

[grand fiber]

It was in the context of the October 7 civilian casualty numbers.

And the helicopter disinfo.

[pulsar falcon]

I assume you mean October?

[grand fiber]

Yes, that's what I get for typing while being distracted

[pulsar falcon]

i can't say anything after the amount of times i confused the banks of the dnipro

[sacred bane]

https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1724055160471564623?s=20

trying to geolocate this atm, seems quite hard with the poor quality maps available on google and bing

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/UNRWA/status/1723992436270068200

[velvet bison]

I think it is indeed Quds Hospital

the entrace is in these shadows

the angle in the grayscale vid is really hard to read but I've looked at al-Quds before so I could tell the orientation

link on Bing https://www.bing.com/maps?q=quds+hospital+map&FORM=HDRSC4&cp=31.505519~34.430442&lvl=19.0&style=h&dir=-60

[sacred bane]

ty so much!

[calm harness]

@oblique brook not sure about this one. Looks like too many steps in the concrete stairs? In the image from google maps it looks like two on one side. I count a minimum of 5 in the picture. - And the roof in the picture looks like it has some vertical parts? It feels a bit off to me, not convinced.

[real lodge]

this was probably already discussed on here (the source videos, not Preston's) https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8DFB4D1/ not the og source of the videos but the rockets in the scouting building are wild (which I think this X posting by IDF https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1721581716802855398?). i guess that facility is part of UNRWA?

[fervent fable]

Where do you read or hear its part of UNRWA?

[calm harness]

This is my suggestion: https://twitter.com/fdov21/status/1724122312197206141

[valid sapphire]

Can y'all share
https://fxtwitter.com/N_Waters89/status/1724124103911596099?t=klbHEs8Ua2WZoQgs5JcU1A&s=19

[woeful jewel]

IDF captures Gaza Legislative Council

[short yacht]

Do you have a link to the source

[woeful jewel]

Another discord server for now will see what else there is

[clear olive]

Mentioned here too https://t.me/ImshinJ/2409?single

[orchid nymph]

https://vxtwitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1723412695045537822

[woeful jewel]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-troops-inside-gazas-parliament-building-with-israeli-flags/

[fervent jewel]

Is it from the same info as that former UN rep from Israel tweeted?
(also wtf with the translated Hebrew from that????? is this a meme)

[clear olive]

I don't know. Its from that IG page and they have other posts which are disinformation like tha apache helicopters targeting Israelis that was debunked earlier.

[fervent jewel]

Yeah just assuming it's bunk

[clear olive]

A message from a hostage that puports to be on her behalf was released. She is now ||dead|| supposedly after an airstrike and they show images to prove that she is at the end of this video. ||https://t.me/Rasdd24/49671||

[velvet bison]

I would rephrase that to say someone released a message on her behalf tbh

[clear olive]

Ok

[velvet bison]

And honestly maybe say puports to be on her behalf, we have no idea if she gave authorization and she could have been under duress for that matter. It's semantics but those matter here

[clear olive]

Ok I can't find source on WhatsApp neither so I'm moving to disinfo

[oblique brook]

You're correct, yeah. I was confused by the perspective as well but assumed it was the angle of the camera

[stiff compass]

It looks like it https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/palestinian-people-who-left-their-houses-take-shelter-at-news-photo/1756751041

[sacred bane]

ty!

[velvet bison]

Thanks for getting a picture from the ground

[grand tapir]

(backup https://archive.li/I5ryX) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/13/israel-hamas-hostage-deal-qatar-talks/ https://fixupx.com/washingtonpost/status/1724227413847032083 https://fixupx.com/byheatherlong/status/1724244867730071957

[bitter hollow]

Is there some kind of official/agreed upon description of what humanitarian pause is and how it differs from a ceasefire?

[grand tapir]

https://fixupx.com/Yonatan_Touval/status/1724122434255695935?s=20

[bitter pulsar]

Did Netanyahu say or write this sentiment somewhere that we can verify?

[short yacht]

Iirc an Israeli journalist said this on a news program. I recall talk of him blaming the military/intelligence agencies

[bitter pulsar]

So, nothing firsthand then?

[bitter hollow]

"""
Facing a barrage of criticism, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu deleted a controversial social media post on Sunday in which he blamed the defense and intelligence establishment for giving him faulty assessments before the deadly Hamas attack on October 7.
The prime minister then published a new tweet. "I was wrong," he wrote, adding that "the things I said following the press conference should not have been said, and I apologize for that. I fully support the heads of [Israel's] security services."
"""
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-29/ty-article/after-drawing-fury-netanyahu-deletes-tweet-blaming-security-chiefs-for-hamas-attack/0000018b-7a77-d4a8-a3cf-feff35d20000

[bitter pulsar]

Is this tweet what it’s all based on? The statement is more in line with the “we weren’t told the attack was going to happen” messaging, and not so much an explicit “they threw me under the bus” type of argument. I suppose one could read between the lines though.

Apologies, I’m veering outside the scope of this channel. Please, no one reply to me here. See me here instead https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1047898195155492895... I think? It's so hard to know where it is appropriate to post what, mostly because shit is complicated these days. 😕

[thick shadow]

Nic Robertson otg at the Al-Rantisi hospital: https://fxtwitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1724271462079418382

[pulsar falcon]

Is there a map with what areas are under control of whom or is it too murky to tell?

[late kraken]

ISW has a map but I ignore how accurate it is https://vxtwitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1724261484996243598

[hoary wasp]

livemap.ua has a “map” with Israeli areas of control marked but it is horrifically inaccurate as is its Ukraine map

Frankly there’s just not going to be good info on the micro tactical situation because the information space has been deliberately blacked out for this very reason, the IDF does not want the public to know what is happening because that would benefit Hamas

Funnily enough the best indicators of Israeli movements is at the hospitals current under siege because they’re one of the few areas of Gaza with at least some communication with the outside world, hence why we know the situation in the immediate vicinity of these hospitals but virtually nowhere else

Another source is geolocated IDF official press releases but these are obviously older and carefully edited for the above reasons

[thick shadow]

warmapper also has one: https://fxtwitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1723386229675208739?s=20

[nocturne void]

Daphna Liel says in the video that there are some people that think that netanyahu blames the army

that's far from saying "netanyahu believes etc."

[woeful jewel]

Severe clashes between Palestinian fighters and Israeli soldiers around Al-Yarmouk playground in the middle of the Gaza city https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com//en/2023/14-november-severe-clashes-between-palestinian-fighters-and

[real lodge]

🤔 huh...look at that....all these battles in areas that I've been told by many on Bluesky that aren't supposed to have Hamas in because "something-something international law." and "they don't use human shields, they are freedom fighters!".

[glacial leaf]

They have a "battle map" too: https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/2e746151991643e39e64780f0674f7dd

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/MahaGaza/status/1724393360138395932

I've seen these kinds of statements from Gazan accounts. The IDF has troops along the corridors?

[hexed onyx]

Yes, at least one point along Salah al-Din Rd. (via @hollow turret https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1722334686247055851)

[short yacht]

Thank you

[calm harness]

And this, (Could be same footage? I haven't watched the complete channel4) https://twitter.com/itschicoloco/status/1721830173274788024

[hexed onyx]

Yeah that looks like it's around the same spot, which is where the Israeli strongpoint is: 31.4737, 34.4380

[umbral pilot]

Looks like Ukraine's UN page has a good glossary of these terms from March 14th, 2022 during the Ukraine conflict. I know they are two different conflicts, but the concept remains the same.

https://ukraine.un.org/en/174777-glossary-humanitarian-terms-pauses-during-conflict

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/IsraelRadar_com/status/1724472356242940137?s=20

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1724381525167280430

[thick shadow]

Any more information in the other statements?

[short yacht]

I'll try and look for them again. The ones I saw said things like you can't walk too fast or too slow or else you'll get in trouble/shot. You can't turn back, can't help people who have fallen. Again just going off memory.

[thick shadow]

its ok, i thought she talks about a specific incident of somebody being shot while evacuating.

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1724507040683360411

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1724507219952058873

[short yacht]

||https://twitter.com/alijla2021/status/1724504572683509895||

Content warning: photo of a person who has been shot, is deceased

Tweet author says: "This 75-year-old man was taken from his home, and then his family found him dead with a single gunshot wound. Later, his granddaughter saw his picture posted by the Israeli army, depicting how they treat civilians kindly."

I'm trying to find the IDF post/picture/video where the picture in the tweet came from. Reverse image search had no luck. EDIT Tweet author says the picture came from Israeli channels/media. Not official IDF accounts. If anyone recognizes it from press material they've seen shoot me a link.

[woeful jewel]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1724457130168631302?t=XKb8g23MKzFT6HIF4ZBI1g&s=19

https://vxtwitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1724504174443085853?t=IMgAHdQLRV9fbC2fRY56CA&s=19

[fervent jewel]

Gift article from Christiaan, new piece we just put out on Israel munitions at Shifa: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-al-shifa-hospital.html?unlocked_article_code=1.-Uw.6W3z.Gju91-fpfQSo

[orchid nymph]

did you find it? I found it on someone's twitter

[short yacht]

I haven't found the source of the first photo, no

[orchid nymph]

I think it was on this account: https://twitter.com/Israelkicksass

It might have been deleted? I have a screenshot

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/Israelkicksass/status/1724349354603844027 Still up. Thanks for helping me locate it

[orchid nymph]

Wow. This is probably not fruitful or allowed but this is absolutely disgusting.

[short yacht]

Seeing the "save Gazans from Hamas" narrative be constructed by the IDF/Israel in real time is quite something

[glacial leaf]

http://web.archive.org/web/20231114200119/http://web.archive.org/screenshot/https://x.com/Israelkicksass/status/1724349354603844027?s=20

[short yacht]

There is precedent for the IDF claiming misfired Palestinian militant rockets are the source of explosions seemingly caused by IDF fire: https://international-review.icrc.org/articles/breaking-the-silence-advocacy-and-accountability-for-attacks-on-hospitals-in-armed-conflict-915

[orchid nymph]

I do not know if the following message is appropriate for this channel or I should take it to Disinfo channel?

But stories like these do not make it to Western media. Barely.

I think Western media likes to think that they are neutral in this situation, but they are not, because they see everything from the wetern perspective.

Earlier this week, there was a protest at New York Times:

"NEW YORK (AP) — Pro-Palestinian demonstrators occupied the lobby of The New York Times on Thursday, demanding an immediate cease-fire in Gaza while accusing the media of showing a bias toward Israel in its coverage of the Israel-Hamas war."

"They remained for over an hour, reading off the names of thousands of Palestinians killed in Gaza, including at least 36 journalists whose deaths have been confirmed since the war began. They scattered editions of a mock newspaper — “The New York War Crimes” — that charged the media with “complicity in laundering genocide” and called on The Times’ editorial board to publicly back a cease-fire."

I thought this was absolutely amazing. This is the same for the Netherlands. The media here is so white they can not see beyond their white perspective, thinking they are neutral, and this is the same for our government. Plus add up lots of pressure of influential Israeli lobby.

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-times-protest-gaza-ceasefire-c1482efbb3f767a0898a3d20f9647bc2

[short yacht]

It's probably not appropriate for this channel. But I agree though, and more perspective along those lines is important on the way forward. [EDIT] gotta say rolling eyes at that is pretty disrespectful.

[old rover]

You can post it in https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1168282793495765022, it's there for this. Also, it would be great if you could add evidence. Otherwise you're just posting opinion on an old article.

[short yacht]

||https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5944||

Same content warning as above. Spoiler contains link to Euromed Monitor which is now reporting on this

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ur_ninja/status/1724532626810372464

https://vxtwitter.com/evanhill/status/1724539465899610262

[hexed onyx]

I think I may have geolocated the man and the soldier, curious if others agree: https://x.com/gbrumfiel/status/1724557486118560104?s=20

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/Faytuks/status/1724566792515752233?s=20

[old rover]

There’s no link in that tweet, though.

[woeful jewel]

I'm headed to AJ livestream rn

[old rover]

Finding the Al Jazeera report and then posting would be better.

[woeful jewel]

I'll see what else I have. Have been familiar with Faytuks for a long time and he's reliable

https://vxtwitter.com/AJArabic/status/1724565767037882711?t=00NhXtqk5JSWLeOJAreZrA&s=19

Al Jazeera is discussing it in live English newscast rn

[hot glade]

https://aje.io/u0xc67?update=2487062

[wicked nimbus]

https://fxtwitter.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1724568533416161295

Israel is likely procuring all of this via Foreign Military Sales, as the US only has $100 million in Presidential Drawdown Authority for FY24 until Congress raises the PDA cap.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-14/pentagon-is-quietly-sending-israel-ammunition-laser-guided-missiles

[glacial leaf]

⭕️ Press Statement

We strongly condemn and reject the claims made by the Pentagon and the White House which repeat the lies propagated by the Zionist occupation that Hamas uses hospitals to hide captured Israeli soldiers or as command centers.

These statements give a green light to the Israeli occupation to commit further brutal massacres targeting hospitals, with the goal of destroying Gaza’s healthcare system and displacing Palestinians to advance plans of neo-Nazi leaders such as Netanyahu and Smotrich.

We reiterate our call for the United Nations to establish an international committee to inspect all hospitals in Gaza and expose the falsehoods in the occupation’s narrative, a narrative endorsed by its ally, Washington. The United States bears direct responsibility for enabling “Israel’s” genocidal war on Gaza.

Islamic Resistance Movement - Hamas

Nov 14, 2023
Official website - Hamas movement

https://t.me/+kUoQCMfm8bI1NWE0

Steve on Agenda Free TV says the Israeli forces are going into Al-Shifa Hospital.

[hot glade]

https://t.me/alexmehacarmel/11752

Our forces are already inside the hospital.

[woeful jewel]

Operational Update:
IDF forces are carrying out a precise and targeted operation against Hamas in a specified area in the Shifa Hospital, based on intelligence information and an operational necessity.

The IDF is conducting a ground operation in Gaza to defeat Hamas and rescue our hostages. Israel is at war with Hamas, not with the civilians in Gaza.

The IDF forces include medical teams and Arabic speakers, who have undergone specified training to prepare for this complex and sensitive environment, with the intent that no harm is caused to the civilians being used by Hamas as human shields.

In recent weeks, the IDF has publicly warned time and again that Hamas' continued military use of the Shifa hospital jeopardizes its protected status under international law, and enabled ample time to stop this unlawful abuse of the hospital. Yesterday, the IDF conveyed to the relevant authorities in Gaza once again that all military activities within the hospital must cease within 12 hours. Unfortunately, they did not.

The IDF has also facilitated wide-scale evacuations of the hospital and maintained regular dialogue with hospital authorities.

We call upon all Hamas terrorists present in the hospital to surrender.

https://x.com/IDF/status/1724579353193754958?s=20

[woeful jewel]

https://fixupx.com/ytirawi/status/1724583328458695103?s=20

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i/APyvnA/foelg-utviklingen-live-angrepene-i-israel-og-gaza&utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=hovedlopet_row1_pos1&utm_medium=dre-655404c078c9dfb67374eee7?pinnedEntry=36939
Norewian newspaper siting Reuters

(Originally: #israel-palestine message)

[grand tapir]

Interesting

Presumably these are SOF not IDF regulars

[woeful jewel]

#1160132507472244839 message

[glacial leaf]

**CW: close up of injured person's bloody face. **I'm not sure the date/time of this snap but it's recent, like today. I don't know what he's saying because I don't speak Arabic, but I'm posting it here for others. It's location is "Gaza City" so maybe inside Al-Shifa Hospital? https://map.snapchat.com/ttp/snap/W7_EDlXWTBiXAEEniNoMPwAAYaXlsaGJ4dHR3AYvOwufmAYvOwufMAAAAAQ/@31.492555,34.368192,11.02z geo coordinates are in the url.

[woeful jewel]

https://vxtwitter.com/alaraby_ar/status/1724586364321014091?t=zWXRD972mEbg8rEWGBGzjQ&s=19

[glacial leaf]

This is the 3rd report I've heard of this now.

[woeful jewel]

Source is very reliable

[glacial leaf]

Report of Israeli tank on the courtyard of the hospital where the displaced are sheltering. (listening to Steve read reports on Agenda Free TV)

[woeful jewel]

academic_la on Twitter has some interesting claims about what's going on. Pretty pro Israel and I'm on the fence as to whether to believe it

Dunno. Deleted??

[glacial leaf]

That was posted on Twitter/X on November 9th so I am deleting.

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/gazanotice/status/1724586543782789150

Unsure how reliable this account is

[glacial leaf]

Here's a BBC report from 6 minutes ago: https://vxtwitter.com/Rushdibbc/status/1724600983198539836?s=20

[grand tapir]

Any news/confirmation on this clip?
https://fixupx.com/AimenDean/status/1724482751720485181?s=20

https://fixupx.com/ShehabAgency/status/1724602759142690838

Shebab News (Hamas affiliated News Source): Dr.. Ahmed Al-Makhalati, head of the burns department at Al-Shifa Hospital: The Red Cross is part of the collusion that takes place between the occupation and international institutions.

https://vxtwitter.com/kann_news/status/1724600199119585637

IDF spokesman in English to CNN: "We are entering Shifa Hospital for a local and precise mission to perhaps reach a place where we will defeat Hamas and release hostages"

[glacial leaf]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67400490

LiveLiveIsraeli soldiers 'storm' Gaza's biggest hospital

With updates from Rushdi Abualouf in Gaza; Paul Adams, Yolande Knell, Yogita Limaye, Nick Beake, Joel Gunter and Orla Guerin in Jerusalem; Jeremy Bowen and Mark Lowen in southern Israel; and Hugo Bachega in Lebanon

[short yacht]

For context: this is a Hamas affiliated news source

[grand tapir]

Yep. Thought it was worth posting given the direction of the narrative.

Israel must be pretty sure that there are hostages there to commit SOF in this manner.

[woeful jewel]

https://t.me/idf_telegram/7834

[bitter pulsar]

Is this (31.473536, 34.435744-ish) where you think the man was photographed while still alive? What leads you to think it was here? If so, it would be about 100 meters NE of where the car was fired on by a tank on or about the 30th of last month, if I remember correctly.

Whoops, I see that you clearly said "the man and the soldier". Ignore my first question in regard to which specific imagery.

[glacial leaf]

6 minutes ago: https://vxtwitter.com/NourNaim88/status/1724605320310251759?s=20

[short yacht]

Iirc Red Cross needs Israel's permission to enter the strip?

[woeful jewel]

ICRC? What about PRCS?

@short yacht

[short yacht]

PRCS is already in the strip, yes?

[hexed onyx]

You can see in the tweet thread but it’s an Israeli strongpoint that they’ve had journalists out to.

[woeful jewel]

Yeah just it seems like a ICRC affiliate I suppose he means they betrayed them though

[glacial leaf]

Do you know where the photo of the man who was killed originated? (The photo of him laying on the ground, dead.)

[hexed onyx]

No idea on that one.

[glacial leaf]

Odd detail that his sandals where put under his head.

[short yacht]

I get the impression he's talking about the larger red cross not the org operating in Gaza. need more context which we aren't likely to get any time soon

[short yacht]

Right that's not enough context IMO

[bitter pulsar]

Twitter threads are near impossible for me to read anymore since I deleted my account (because of you know who) about a year ago. I didn't realize that it was a thread. Sorry about that.

[woeful jewel]

Is it because he thinks they had something to do with Israel getting into the hospital?

[short yacht]

No idea. Like I said there's not enough information yet.

[grand tapir]

https://t.me/news_kodkodgroup/137584

[glacial leaf]

1 hour ago NBC reported that a 19 year old Israeli soldier held hostage has died. No further info

[stiff compass]

This? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-14/ty-article/hamas-publishes-video-of-israeli-soldier-held-hostage-idf-our-heart-is-with-her-family/0000018b-caba-dd30-a5ff-effb39210000

[glacial leaf]

Must be her

[woeful jewel]

Only confirmed dead hostage

[orchid nymph]

So its confirmed they entered al shifa or not at this stage?

[grand tapir]

Yes

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-15/us-frustration-with-israel-grows-as-gaza-civilian-deaths-mount

https://archive.vn/Ag3u3

[woeful jewel]

https://vxtwitter.com/lookner/status/1724643290950037617?s=20

[fair magnet]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1724649814497870293?t=ejDctTidCPD2ymxKpV207g&s=19

[mellow sky]

This relates I believe to the fact the ICRC has made very clear it cannot facilitate any evacuations from hospitals in the absence of security guarantees. More information here: https://www.icrc.org/en/document/information-people-affected-conflict-occupied-territories

[short yacht]

Thanks. Yes that's what I was remembering. I believe I heard about it when the ambulance was attacked; Gaza requested a red cross escort and Israel (seemingly) didn't authorize.

https://vxtwitter.com/malsaafin/status/1724613971045454203 This thread repeats in English a phone-call that was played on AJ Arabic. Would be good to have a copy of the recording.

[nocturne void]

freedom of press goes brrrr

also thinking that being against a cease fire and or in the Israeli lobby is having a "white perspective" is imo needlessly making this into a racial issue and sadly ignoring the fact that over half of Jewish Israelis are not ethnically white (and ofc the fact that there are Israeli Arabs - I don't think they're white - that are against a cease fire)

[orchid nymph]

I am not saying those things. But I think my post was a bit too opinionated and it is good to stick more to facts. So i will do that from now on.

[thick shadow]

https://twitter.com/yosefyisrael25/status/1724700029850427483

Testimonies from Shifa Hospital obtained by the BBC: IDF forces go from room to room and interrogate everyone, medical staff and patients. They are accompanied by Israeli medical teams and Arabic speakers. Gazans who came to the hospital to receive shelter are concentrated in the yard, some of them are interrogated. The event was well controlled by the IDF forces, with no shooting at the hospital.

[thick shadow]

IDF released videos & photos from Al-Shifa: https://fxtwitter.com/idfonline/status/1724728957881159985

[orchid nymph]

Nothing about the tunnels so far??

[thick shadow]

No, the operation is ongoing

[orchid nymph]

"The Israeli forces stormed in large numbers the al-Shifa Medical Complex in Gaza City earlier this morning, turning it into military barracks and a detention center, where patients, displaced persons, and healthcare professionals are subjected to different forms of abuse."

https://twitter.com/EuroMedHR/status/1724720219103387709

" The head of the emergencies department at al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza said on Wednesday that the Israeli army was “blindfolding, stripping and taking displaced people sheltering to an unknown destination”.

He also refuted Israeli army claims that any incubators and baby food were given to the hospital."

"He described the situation as “terrifying” as dead bodies begin to decay, as people have been unable to bury them."

https://www.middleeasteye.net/israel-palestine-hamas-war-gaza-live-invasion

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1724754369776881774

[hot glade]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/qatar-seeking-israel-hamas-deal-release-50-hostages-3-day-truce-sources-say-2023-11-15/

[hot glade]

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/exclusive-israeli-minister-says-temporary-ceasefire-in-return-for-hostages-will-happen/

[velvet bison]

this is one offiicial, is that the government's position...?

[hot glade]

I'm not 100% sure but it would seem that way. Looking into it more currently.

[velvet bison]

@hot glade I'm not doubting you at all but I feel like this would be at the top of every news website in the world if this was the official Israeli government position. Just odd there's not any more reports

[hot glade]

I agree completely

[velvet bison]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/qatar-seeking-israel-hamas-deal-release-50-hostages-3-day-truce-sources-say-2023-11-15/

Seeing a bunch of stuff about Hamas agreeing to a three day pause but nothing about Israel. 🤷 https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-qatari-official-says-hamas-agrees-to-release-50-hostages-in-exchange-for-3-day-pause/

[thick shadow]

the shin bet boss was in egypt yesterday for discussions about the hostages, looks like negotiations are ongoing but israels demands are not met.

[thick shadow]

not much from the israeli side on this, n12 has a short quote:

An Israeli official responded to the report: The mediators know that we demand a more significant deal
(https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-ffcf0a062f2db81027.htm?Partner=interlink)

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1724785332204539986

[glacial leaf]

This is indeed also a perceived racial issue. If we only look at the evidence provided in images and video footage out of Israel vs. out of Palestine, even a stranger to this crisis can see the pattern that Israelis (in general) are lighter skinned compared to Palestinians (in general) who are darker skinned. In addition, Israelis featured in media are more physically healthy appearing (signaling potentially better health care, food, hydration) while Palestinians featured in media appear underweight, dehydrated, and struggling with health issues. In interviews, Israelis tend to focus on more existential crisis (for example: "We are young people who just wanted to relax and enjoy ourselves") vs. Palestinians who tend to focus on more physical crisis (for example: "My home was bombed, my children have no food, there is no adequate medical care to treat injuries from the Israeli bombardments"). These details are indicative of power imbalances and in this case race, or at least skin color, is a factor that should not go ignored.

[short yacht]

Yeah you can't talk about an issue like this without having a mental check wrt the massive power asymmetry inherent in this situation.

[tight kernel]

This is an important convo but sadly I have to remind this is the breaking news channel and longer discussion is #israel-palestine

Further replies should take place there

[hybrid lintel]

Has this been geolocated? The building and the surroundings do not look like the ones in the video: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Palestinian+Legislative+Council/@31.5203578,34.4413109,837m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x14fd7f1673923d65:0xa971a99fd9772c59!8m2!3d31.5203533!4d34.4438858!16s%2Fg%2F11c1rf2rj4?entry=ttu

[short yacht]

Yeah it would be good to double check the claim

[clear olive]

Panflets being dropped in several locations in Gaza. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzrEjq1NCDy/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Instagram

[clear olive]

The original video (reposted by @translating_gaza) seems to be coming from here posted 4h ago
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czq1QOwqFxA/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

abomoaaz.25

تهجير بكل الطرق ❤️‍🩹🇵🇸

Likes

5930

Instagram

[thick spruce]

Eastern Khan Yunis specifically, according to Yousef Hammash, who is a Gaza-based staff member with the Norwegian Refugee Council according to AJ https://vxtwitter.com/YousefHammash/status/1724802339301970250?s=20

[clear olive]

That's in the south so... are there any western media outlets reporting on this ?

[thick spruce]

Just had a quick scroll through the live feeds of The Guardian, BBC and WaPo and couldn’t see anything about it

[nocturne void]

idk exact demographics for Israel but many ethnically arab Ethiopian Moroccan syrian iraqi Persian Yemeni etc people make up more than half of Israels population, but I understand that the fact that Moroccans and syrians are a few shades lighter than the people of gaza makes it a racial issue

[tight kernel]

#1160132507472244839 message

[grand tapir]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1724855282369540396

Seems like there’s a bit of a disconnect there

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1724856060291211594

[grand tapir]

MRI compound was not previously highlighted on IDF’s map

[short yacht]

... There's a box of dates on that table

[forest holly]

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro_mediterranean_human_rights_network_emhrn_/

[short yacht]

It's amazing how Hamas always seems to leave behind a few AKs, mags, grenades

[digital light]

Is ngo-monitor it’s self a reputable source?

[grand tapir]

Not really. But neither is Euro-Med Monitor tbh. Both have large biases.

[grand tapir]

I mean… that’s kind of what you’d expect in a Hamas weapons stash…

Either way it’s impossible to really tell one way or another unless IDF releases uncut footage. Hamas preempts anything by saying it’s planted, Israel releases photos of weapons not in their original position. It’s just an information black hole tbh.

https://t.me/Political_arena/115069

An IDF spokesman: "We entered the operation in Shifa at a time that was correct for us operationally and intelligence-wise, and also considering the evacuation of the hospital - there were many more people there before and it would have endangered our forces. Hamas wanted to obtain photos of the IDF harming civilians and the sick, and we did a focused and high-quality operation after careful preparation in advance. You have to give this operation time, there are still a lot of people there, and you have to manage it at the right pace...

[short yacht]

"Unique technological means of Hamas" in the MRI center per IDF via AJE.

AJE says they have only seen the weapons on the table, no other evidence provided by the IDF yet on larger claims.

[glacial leaf]

Is it reasonable to say that some Palestinians may own/possess firearms yet also not be a member of an organised military faction?

[calm harness]

FYI, not the building they claimed: https://vxtwitter.com/fdov21/status/1724836575740084276

[glacial leaf]

Posting some links to liveblogs here. Please lmk if I missed one you reference: The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/15/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-israeli-military-al-shifa-hospital-gaza-operation; Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/15/israel-hamas-war-live-israel-says-it-plans-to-raid-al-shifa-ministry; BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67423274; Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/14/israel-war-hamas-gaza-al-shifa-news/

[bitter pulsar]

That's what I figured. I can finally stop searching.
Thanks for sharing this.

[short yacht]

Interesting. I'm seeing the claim in Times of Israel and other outlets EDIT ah is see the tweet author is a TOI journalist

[thick spruce]

WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/14/israel-war-hamas-gaza-al-shifa-news/

[calm harness]

One would expect them to know how the Palestinian Legislative Council looks like. It's a 30 sec google search, and it's not even similar. But yeah..

[short yacht]

It's very confusing. Curious what building this is and why it warranted to be completely blown up.

[calm harness]

I think it looks like a school, but that's a guess.

[pastel mountain]

Weapons and especially ammunition are sort of expensive for a household scale in a developing country. An AK replica goes for a few hundred dollars in non-sanctioned developing countries; then factor in the blockade which means any units must be smuggled at huge risk through extreme border checks.
Not to say an individual can't own them in Gaza, but unless you are rich it takes a lot of resources.

[grand tapir]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzqhOkeIX-6/

yosephhaddad

BBC-
אם אתם לא רוצים להתנצל שוב ושוב על המידע השקרי שאתם מעבירים נגד ישראל- אולי פשוט תתחילו לשדר את האמת?

BBC-
If you don't want to apologize over and over again for the false information you propagate against Israel - maybe just start publishing the truth?

Likes

20543

Instagram

(Just the video, not the commentary) but what a clusterfuck by the BBC - misquoted Reuters that the IDF was targeting Arabic Speakers and Medical teams, whereas what the actual (corrected version) was that the IDF forces included Arabic speakers and medical teams. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[short yacht]

What indicates that? I'd think if it was a school google maps would label the building as such, but that might be expecting too much

[calm harness]

I don't trust google maps (for labels) on Gaza, even Bing is a bit better. I've been looking at a few schools for the other attacks. That's why I have that feeling. I'll have another look.

[pastel mountain]

Checked how much the blockades/sanctions affect this and saw an estimate of over $2K for an AK in Syria. Probably considerably higher than that in Gaza, considering it is under much more comprehensive blockade. Scaled for personal income I think it could be compared to a private person in USA owning a high end movie camera or another piece of govt/enterprise equipment in the ballpark of an entire annual income.
https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/8759/the-cost-of-an-ak-47-on-the-black-market/

[pulsar falcon]

There could be a few leftovers from pre 2006 or so but I'd write it off as a statistically insignificant amount considering Hamas purges when they took over

[glacial leaf]

https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2023/11/15/a-new-tool-allows-researchers-to-track-damage-in-gaza/

[clear olive]

This is on Osmand maps . It's next to buildings labelled as a school, a government building and a kindergarden

[orchid nymph]

thought it was meant to be a major command centre, that has to be a joke 😭

[thick spruce]

BBC quotes the IDF as saying they found "an operational command center and technological assets". Dunno what evidence they have for that, we’ll see, I guess https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67423274?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6555134025a3f53728285f3c%26IDF says it has found Hamas weapons and equipment in Al-Shifa hospital%262023-11-15T19%3A01%3A09.512Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:fe4dfdfb-ec7a-41de-a347-cf03860b8e2c&pinned_post_asset_id=6555134025a3f53728285f3c&pinned_post_type=share

Jeez, bbc, sort your links out

[short yacht]

To my eye these look like FN FAL magazines, firing 7.62 NATO

[clear olive]

This seems to be the fb page of that school nearby https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057358095126

[calm harness]

I'm not sure, can't really make the pictures fit.

I think this picture shows the front gate of the school (source: https://www.nawa.ps/ar/post/32156)

Trees and shape of the wall/gate seems to match. Harder to find something on the building in question. They have a landfill and it also fills the news, apparently.

[short yacht]

Also looks like the books above the radios are Quran

[pulsar falcon]

Iirc Hamas has a couple of M4s/AR15 pattern rifles

[short yacht]

M4/AR-15 is 5.56 NATO. Those two mags are 7.62 NATO it looks like, and they aren't M14 or G3. I highly doubt they have a 7.62 AR variant, and I don't see magazine catch hole on the side that the AR platform uses edit wrong side

[clear olive]

This is the wadi_gaza government building nearby . It shows a satellite image where that building which was destroyed is also shown https://www.facebook.com/wadi_gaza/videos/789793915379937/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

[pulsar falcon]

Israel did operate the FAL until the early 70s, Libya also had a lot of units

[short yacht]

Yeah they retired it because the design of the gun isn't accommodating to sand/dirt ingress. Was replaced with the Galil

The weird thing is in the arms they've shown, I haven't seen a FAL, 7.62 NATO rifle, or any non AK variant rifle.

[rugged urchin]

Could be the G3 as well.

[short yacht]

Not the G3. Doesn't have the distinctive retainer at the top of the mag

[rugged urchin]

On second glance you're right.

[short yacht]

https://texasshooterssupply.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/hkk-1477_1162_detail.jpg

[rugged urchin]

Either way not at all surprising considering the sheer number of conflicts that rifle has been circulated through over the past half century. I'd be more surprised to not see it pop up there.

[short yacht]

Yeah the FAL isn't exactly rare, just an odd to find in that circumstance. Iran uses the G3 I think, and it's a very reliable rifle, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it there.

And I'm not seeing a FAL amongst the captured rifles. They are all a specific under folding AK variant.

More 7.62 NATO

[atomic ridge]

Those cans back there look an awful lot like WD40.

[short yacht]

These look like AKS74U flash hiders. The magazine looks like a bakelite AK47 mag. The gun looks like a Zastava M92, shortened AK47 variant underfolder.

[umbral pilot]

Yeah used google lense to reverse image search the picture, and that's what Google was reporting. Might be some sort of generic/house brand of WD-40 though.

[raven warren]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1724837961835982979

[hot glade]

https://fixupx.com/academic_la/status/1724901932501020799?s=20

[pulsar falcon]

Libya gave a lot of FALs as their arsenal of Islam thing, could be from there

[short yacht]

https://www.calibreobscura.com/interesting-equipment-shown-in-palestine-islamic-jihads-recent-rally/

Yeah they mention the FAL here. Again the weird part to me is that there's a few magazines and individual shells of 7.62 NATO but none of those weapons in the pictures so far.

[wicked nimbus]

https://fxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1724900144808947883

[clear olive]

Interview on situation inside Al shifa according to MSF. Video interview for CBC https://twitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1724908780557902171?t=BtlIsBEyhJ2BJYylTMwS6Q&s=19

[bitter hollow]

Can this be what you were looking for? Taken from https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1724435965417005363 at 00:00:23.560

[short yacht]

That looks like a AR variant/M4 carbine in 5.56 NATO chambering (no).

[real lodge]

I thought you said that they were not allowed? Were you originally referring to Palestinians in Gaza or Arab-Israelis in Israel or Palestinians in the West Bank?#israel-palestine message

[idle crater]

https://vxtwitter.com/TreyYingst/status/1724914433653157991?t=bnk7gHruPUBQQPI2tPICAA&s=19

[glacial leaf]

I was trying to highlight the inequity of access to firearms and firearms training between Israelis and Palestinians.

[grand tapir]

The asymmetry in regard to civilians or armed forces?

[glacial leaf]

citizens in general regardless of affiliation

[glacial leaf]

fwiw, I've seen youth offering dates from these boxes to people waiting outside the hospital on the Khan Yunis feed. It's silly for the Israeli forces to offer this as some sort of evidence of a Hamas HQ.

[grim oak]

I see some 'OSINT' accounts spread info these dates are from California or something. I found that same box of dates on "Metro Market Gaza" facebook account
https://m.facebook.com/metromarket.gaza/photos/pcb.5852876844753185/5852865391420997/

[thick shadow]

bbc in Al-Shifa: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67436154

[thick spruce]

#israel-palestine message

[thick shadow]

weird, didnt find it via search. /edit: bbc uses two domains, .com and .co.uk..

[velvet bison]

Entire communications blackout in Gaza https://vxtwitter.com/IODA_live/status/1725173038671331613

Paltel had anticipated this would happen today #israel-palestine message

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/IntelDoge/status/1725181604178333881?s=20 bit of a spillover but relevant

[thick spruce]

Dr Ghassan Abu Sittah, surgeon currently at Al-Ahli hospital: Al-Ahli is out of anaesthetic and no longer able to perform surgeries https://www.instagram.com/reel/CztwjTss-fq/?igshid=NTYzOWQzNmJjMA==
PCRF: Tanks “besiege” Al-Ahli hospital (unclear what this means specifically) https://www.instagram.com/p/CztgmFpt0f3/?igshid=NTYzOWQzNmJjMA==

[grand tapir]

https://fixupx.com/shailevy6/status/1725216244935065644?s=20

Spokesman: The body of the abductee, the late Judith Weiss, was recovered by IDF forces from the 603rd Battalion of the 7th Brigade Combat Team from a building near Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip to the territory of the State of Israel. In the building where the late Judith was found, military equipment and means were also found Kalashnikov type combat and RPG missile…

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/MersihaGadzo/status/1725138458862072207

[atomic ridge]

Hard to find any more details about this - 'near Shifa Hospital' is so unspecific it could be blocks away. No comment on manner of death at all - I think we could all make a speculative guess but it wouldn't be helpful.

[grand tapir]

Yep. Waiting to hear more

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1725230439307128995
https://fxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1725230634379976994?s=20

[bitter pulsar]

It looks like they made an entrance to the tunnel with earth moving equipment. If Hamas uses the streets around a hospital, does that make the operators of the facility complicit? The surrounding streets are travel ways in proximity to a a given hospital on the X and Y axes; tunnels are similarly close, but on the Z axis.

[glacial leaf]

I'm talking about the big cardboard box with dates in them - no brand name or brand packaging.

[glacial leaf]

The Israeli forces brought in bulldozers yesterday to dig around/near Al-Shifa Hospital. They are clearing streets with these bulldozers in Gaza including destroying civilian vehicles which are in their path. Videos published by (I think) NBC shows a recording from inside of one bulldozers doing this with an occupant of the bulldozer laughing in the background.

[bitter pulsar]

They're been famous for doing that over the years.

[glacial leaf]

yes

[waxen forum]

Worth considering the tunnel could be a "concrete cable duct". The location of the duct, generator room, and hospital doesn't make sense to me though
https://x.com/WaheidiSaad/status/1725257254176465260?s=20

[proper mantle]

FYI to you and @grim oak, if you see anything that says they're from California based on the word Zahidi, that is almost certainly false. Zahidi is a type/variety of date, not a brand. (One of these tweets came through my timeline this morning.)

[woeful jewel]

Israel making a big push towards Al-Ahli Hospital

https://vxtwitter.com/Suriyakmaps/status/1725276566345703458

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1725272566640656793

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/AstroLoay/status/1725365845403340888

[atomic ridge]

Uh... What could be the justification for this?

[short yacht]

I think it's due to their Jenin raids?

Haaretz has it on their site but no real details

And there was this days ago: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/10/middleeast/palestinians-killed-west-bank-jenin-israel-incursion-hnk-intl/index.html

[thick spruce]

There’s a few posts about the hospital raid on the AJ live updates feed but not a lot of info
https://aje.io/2jzuwp?update=2493495
https://aje.io/2jzuwp?update=2493498
https://aje.io/2jzuwp?update=2493532

[atomic ridge]

Yeah, just trying to understand the reasoning. No Hamas in jenin, but they claim to be taking out terrorist infrastructure. (And apparently destroyed the home of a single terrorist)

[bitter hollow]

Here is a little expanded story about the mentioned 13-year-old boy https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-demolition-militants-explosion-jerusalem-court-b05977502bc2c40e61eb68ab733653b4
"On Feb. 13, two weeks after seeing Israeli police mistakenly shoot and kill his teenage friend for brandishing what turned out to be a fake gun, Mohammed tried to stab an Israeli police officer before being wrestled to the floor. A private guard protecting the officer fired toward the young assailant but accidentally hit and killed his own colleague. Mohammed remains in juvenile detention, awaiting trial on murder charges."

[thick spruce]

This too #1168794877304254494 message

[earnest gyro]

Lions Den have been quite proactive the last few years, both Jenin and Nablus tend to get a lot of attention as a result, I'd imagine the Gaza incursion has them pretty riled up.

[thick shadow]

Hamas and other factions operate in Jenin.

Several of the dead wore green or black headbands, signifying their allegiance to Hamas or other militant factions that Israeli forces had targeted. With 14 dead, the battle around Jenin’s refugee camp on Nov. 9 was the deadliest in decades.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/13/jenin-west-bank-violence-palestinians/

[thick shadow]

In the coming hours - trucks with fuel are supposed to enter the Strip. The fuel is also intended for UNRA trucks, for humanitarian needs, and for communication needs - that is, the operation of the generators of the Palestinian communication company.
According to reports in the Arab media, it is about 10 Egyptian trucks with 150,000 liters of fuel
https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1725470717137780790

[thick shadow]

nytimes visited al-shifa: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11/17/world/israel-hamas-gaza-war-news?smtyp=cur#the-israeli-army-escorted-times-journalists-to-al-shifa-a-focus-of-its-invasion

[stiff compass]

Al Jazeera: Witnesses have told Al Jazeera that dozens of people have been killed and another 100 people injured in an attack on al-Falah School in the Zeitoun neighbourhood south of Gaza City. We still do not have firm casualty numbers. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/17/israel-hamas-war-live-thousands-in-danger-of-death-amid-hospital-siege

Location of that school: 31.50248, 34.45467

[calm harness]

I'm interested in footage from that incident, if it surfaces.

[hybrid lintel]

Second body of a hostage found near Shifa hostpital according to Israel: https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1725399996277620765 (first one was Yehudit Weiss)

[nocturne void]

there is hamas in jenin.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/12/resistance-defiancee-hamas-funeral-parade-jenin-israeli-raids-west-bank

[nocturne void]

https://www.jns.org/idf-kills-five-terrorists-in-jenin-others-fled-to-hospital/
https://t.me/amitsegal/29545

[orchid nymph]

This media organisation does not seem very legit in my opinion.

Well at least they are clear in their focus

[nocturne void]

Amit segal is the political commentator of n12 And a political columnist in yediot ahronot
he's considered pretty reputable

[nocturne void]

obviously

[hot glade]

What are you basing your opinion on?

[nocturne void]

and even Al Jazeera quoting the idf
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/17/israeli-forces-raid-jenin-surround-hospitals-in-occupied-west-bank

[thick shadow]

anything outside of your opinion you can back this up with?

[grand fiber]

Hey, please remember to always post links, not just screenshots. That way, others can verify what you are posting.

[hybrid lintel]

They are probably biased (as are we all here in one way or another), but their bias by itself is not a reason for dismissal

[velvet bison]

It's the same as posting any anti-Israel aligned media here. Read everything critically.

[thick shadow]

its hard to discuss or argue with opinions which are not backed up or explained, is what i wanted to say.

[velvet bison]

Fwiw, this is probably best suited for not this forum post since this is where news goes. We can discuss this source in #israel-palestine

[orchid nymph]

Ok I can place my reaction there

[atomic ridge]

Don't recall seeing this posted...
https://vxtwitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1725179974896767389

interested in if anyone has geolocated anything in this video?

[valid sapphire]

That's disgusting. I think I have an idea where this is. Will check later.

[bitter hollow]

Israeli ex-PM claims Hamas command centre is in the south of Gaza not al-Shifa Hospital
Thread (Shona Murray/Euronews) with a linked article and a video interview in the article: https://fxtwitter.com/ShonaMurray_/status/1725460753748992229

[velvet bison]

This is what they said on October 27
https://vxtwitter.com/IAFsite/status/1717917111828296083

Just to remind everyone

[bitter hollow]

EDIT: Read the next message first.

Close to the end of the video in the article, shitty and weird (I do not think I misunderstand what I quote below, but maybe I am, I do not think this quote is out of context).
"These Arabs, these inferior Arabs, what do they know? What can they do? Are they going to be a match for us? We, the Israelis, the startup nation, with all sophistication, with all the brains, with all the courage, with everything. They proved to us that they are equal to us. They are serious. They are sophisticated. They are just brutal. We will have to destroy them."

No, sorry, this really was out of context. This part: "These Arabs, these inferior Arabs, what do they know? What can they do? Are they going to be a match for us? We, the Israelis, the startup nation, with all sophistication, with all the brains, with all the courage, with everything." Is likely him expressing how current Israeli government/military felt before the 7th October.

[thick shadow]

yep, imo he speaks how israeli "decision makers" are complacent & thought about hamas capabilities.

[tawdry apex]

hey, does anyone have a link handy to the osint doc of documented israeli equipment losses on october 7?

[bitter hollow]

Possibly this, but no idea how reliable:
https://twitter.com/ArmadaRotta/status/1710726203714281510
https://www.armadarotta.com/2023/10/israel-at-war-tracking-equipment-losses.html

[umbral pilot]

Don't want to get in too much of a discussion here regarding my reasoning on his statement. As it is worthy in the other channel due to the political nature of it. But I would take his statement with a healthy grain of salt, as there is a very good chance that Olmert is just saying that to "troll" Netanyahu. He was Israel's previous PM and just at the surface ( i.e. Wikipedia and recent news articles before the war) and I'm pretty confidant that there is a ongoing feud between Olmert and Netanyahu.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-wins-defamation-suit-against-ex-pm-2022-11-21/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Olmert

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/evanhill/status/1725543952382628073

[thick shadow]

there may be some evacuations from al-shifa of people who cant leave on their own in the next hours: https://fxtwitter.com/TreyYingst/status/1725583349521981834

[glacial leaf]

Really good thread by Evan Hill. His reporting has been solid.

[glacial leaf]

Her death was reported a couple/few days ago, but it is just after the announcement of Weiss's death & body discover that I have seen any reports of where Marciano's body was found.

[fair magnet]

Quick look makes it seem like the destroy counts might check out, but I wouldn't go by the capture counts, especially for the tanks/apcs. I believe there was only evidence of Hamas taking trucks/humvees back across the border, not the tanks and apcs that this list counts as captured. Those captures seemed like short lived control while they held the IDF bases.
I don't think any of the Hamas released videos showing strikes since the IDF invasion have show post blast damage of claimed strikes against Tanks/APCs.

[thick shadow]

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/17/politics/hamas-israel-drones-hostage-negotiations/index.html

[tawdry apex]

thats the one thank you

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/mhdksafa/status/1725607025210528224

[old rover]

https://vxtwitter.com/ajenglish/status/1725620988094853397

[velvet bison]

if that picture is what I think it is, it needs a serious trigger warning

[glacial leaf]

I do not believe the babies are dead in the pic itself.

[old rover]

No, I'm sure I've seen it before.

[velvet bison]

Gotcha

I wasn't sure

[old rover]

However this is a very sensitive subject for many people. So let's be very careful what we say and cite.

[glacial leaf]

Israel is conducting drone airstrikes in the West Bank now. Please post any WB news in the WB channel: https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1168794877304254494

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/eyeonpalestine/status/1725622349003678098

[glacial leaf]

All patients in the ICU at Al-Shifa Hospital have died. (Al Jazeera English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCNeDWCI0vo)

[velvet bison]

Times of Israel confirming strikes in West Bank #1168794877304254494 message

[velvet bison]

https://vxtwitter.com/JehadAbusalim/status/1725693699361849723
Not the best source but posting for the video

You can't see them but you can hear constant strikes here
https://www.youtube.com/live/NTo8Tb46GZI?si=1h59ZZP9DcFs3BMT

[thick shadow]

AJ reporting evacuation of al-shifa hospital has started https://x.com/AJABreaking/status/1725791679305634198

Urgent | The Director General of the Ministry of Health in Gaza told Al Jazeera: Until this moment, we have walked a distance of 2 km, and the area is completely destroyed

[thick shadow]

IDF statement:

This morning, the IDF responded to the request of the director of #Al-Shifa_Hospital to allow Gazans who were displaced to the hospital and wish to be evacuated from it towards the humanitarian corridor in the Gaza Strip, through a secured road. We confirm that the IDF did not request the evacuation of patients or medical staff, but rather confirmed that if a request is received to coordinate a medical transfer, the IDF will work to allow this and transfer the patients to other hospitals. Medical teams will remain inside the hospital to serve patients who do not intend or are unable to evacuate. In addition, last night the IDF continued to provide food, water and humanitarian aid to the hospital
https://x.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1725795894165905685

[thick spruce]

According to AJ people are being directed to leave along Al Rashid, not Salah Al Deen https://aje.io/vx4bwb?update=2495607

Info regarding the route by AFP:

“Hospital director Mohammed Abu Salmiya told AFP Israeli troops instructed him to ensure "the evacuation of patients, wounded, the displaced and medical staff, and that they should move on foot towards the seafront".“ https://www.barrons.com/news/israeli-forces-order-shifa-hospital-evacuation-in-next-hour-afp-2c9d9837

AJ: Approx. 120 patients unable to be moved. Hospital director, four doctors, and a small group of nurses remain with them until a UN delegation is dispatched to care for them. https://aje.io/vx4bwb?update=2495828
Edit: WaPo has info saying that the UN staff are to assist in relocating the remaining patients https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/18/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-palestine/#link-VKE53LS32NDSHIZVP4OSGNAVMM

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/nour_odeh/status/1725794217564197173

[thick shadow]

i dont see the gunpoint quote reported on AJ or anywhere else.

[glacial leaf]

Was wondering about that. I'm just now reading about this. There's no other hospital by the sea where they're being directed, right?

[thick shadow]

i dont know, sounds like they are led to the corridor going south. there are different claims about who evacuated the hospital, only displaced or also patients.

https://fxtwitter.com/Rushdibbc/status/1725819340816089496

[valid sapphire]

was it you asking for a AJ person on the hospital? I found one on Instagram. @hamdaneldahdouh

[thick shadow]

i dont recall, but always good to have sources otg. his newest post is from khan younis, though?

[thick spruce]

Hmm I saw something about gunpoint on AJ I’m sure, but I’ve also been trawling a bunch of live feeds. BBC has a journalist in Al Shifa according to this post, Khader Al Zaanoun: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67446662?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=655880f625a3f53728286364%26Journalist at Al-Shifa says many people have now left the hospital 'carrying white flags'%262023-11-18T09%3A22%3A09.176Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:110c481e-deac-454d-a1f4-e2eaa22125f3&pinned_post_asset_id=655880f625a3f53728286364&pinned_post_type=share

[valid sapphire]

looks like. i found him over this one..have to switch devices..

||https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzyALWeKb-k/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==||

eye.on.palestine

Scenes from Al Shifa Hospital following the Israeli occupation forces order to evacuate everyone from medical crews to injuries and patients. 18.11.23 Via @hamdaneldahdouh

Likes

67570

Instagram

[thick spruce]

The gunpoint quote is on a couple of the AJ live updates. Attributed to head of ortho here https://aje.io/vx4bwb?update=2495849 and hospitals director here https://aje.io/vx4bwb?update=2495874

[thick shadow]

thanks, only looked on the arabic aljazeera page. are these two different organizations, arabic and english al jazeera?

[thick spruce]

Yep, tailored according to audience is my impression

[thick shadow]

earlier IDF offered to organize a medical transfer of patients: https://twitter.com/AJABreaking/status/1725829827276460103

Urgent | Director of Al-Shifa Medical Complex of Al-Jazeera: We demand that the wounded and sick be removed from the hospital as soon as possible

[thick spruce]

Sorry, where does it say the IDF agreed? The tweet is just of the director asking.

Medical transfer ≠ one hour to evac

[thick shadow]

nobody said the idf agreed, but they offered it in their initial statement:

if a request is received to coordinate a medical transfer, the IDF will work to allow this and transfer the patients to other hospitals.
#1160132507472244839 message

[thick spruce]

Right, was just confused by your post, all good

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/1725851710155870612/video/1

[oblique brook]

Caption of this is 'IDF surrounds a school housing the displaced in the al-Sabra neighbourhood, west of Gaza'

Could we geolocate this? I've tried but I'm struggling. There is what appears to be a spire in the background, so I've tried using mosques, but also no luck.

[brittle arch]

I checked for “al-Sabra” neighbourhood in Gaza; the map in the Wikipedia article locates the neighbourhood south of Jamal/Gamal Abdel Nasser St.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra,_Gaza

[brittle arch]

The school in the location is “Al Falah Primary and Preparatory School for Refugees” (مدرسة الفلاح الابتدائية والاعدادية للاجئين) (https://www.google.com/maps/place/مدرسة+الفلاح+الابتدائية+والاعدادية+للاجئين،+غزة+عسقولة+شارع+الدهشان‭/@31.5027842,34.4544735,17z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x14fd7f706a5ae603:0x21a2bca2d25bff3f!8m2!3d31.5024826!4d34.4546794!16s%2Fg%2F11cr__q_kx)

Trying to search for coordinates of the image shared. Blue gates are the markers

Blue rails in the uploaded image and the images of the school such as in the embed are also present, but there could be other schools with blue rails as well

Meh I could be incorrect. This Sabra neighbourhood might be more accurate

[woeful jewel]

Makes the most sense in context

[calm harness]

Got the source for this Image?

[calm harness]

I think it is here: 31.500771, 34.448782 - I'll draw

[ember pond]

You're too good @calm harness :)

[nocturne void]

important context
the beginning of the video says "nova gaza we have started, the festival season in gaza has opened officially, the Israeli people live, together we will win "
it's supposed to be a tribute to the hamas massacre at the nova festival (hence the flag) and many Israelis wish to make a nova festival in gaza
far from dancing on graves
as to the words, its 2-3 fire, which is the sound of a drone operator firing on hamas targets which has gone viral locally
https://t.me/TheBigBadShadow/73181

[oblique brook]

Awesome, amazing work. It was shared on various Telegram channels, this is the one I copied the image from; https://t.me/hamza20300/183496

[calm harness]

Thank you.

[atomic ridge]

Deleted my previous message... haven't seen this posted here yet? Maybe not looking in the right spot.

Lots of graphic video being posted of bodies at al-Fakhoora school (which was being used by UN for refugees), some folks claiming 150-200 dead. Looks to early to be making guesses, but AJ says 'dozens'.
https://vxtwitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1725845126902383044

[short yacht]

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5957

[warped river]

AJ live feed says there were two attacks? (Spoilered bc it's a live feed, may contain graphic content in the future but doesn't now afaik) ||https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/18/israel-hamas-war-live-conditions-worsen-as-another-baby-dies-at-al-shifa||

[atomic ridge]

There were a lot of badly burned bodies in the initial October 7th attack - was there some sort of confirmation of what caused the burned bodies (and the burned out cars we saw)? There was a statement two days ago from an Israeli gov't spokesperson about the downward revision of the Oct 7th casualties, and he said: "There were actually bodies that were so badly burnt we thought they were ours, in the end apparently they were Hamas terrorists."

Is there speculation about what Hamas would have been using that burned so many Israelis, cars and also themselves?

(not just burned them, but burned to the point that identification was very difficult - Israel had previously said they were having difficulty in identifying remains because they were so burned and mutilated - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/31/israel-attack-victims-forensic-identification/)

(also weird that this report is from October 31st and they were saying there were 200 unidentified remains... then two weeks later, they basically said "Yep, they were all Hamas.")

This may be too speculative and discussion-based for this thread, just wasn't sure where to ask... seeing it a lot on social media today, wondering if this was something that had been dug into before.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/bbcworld/status/1725633574798242247

[woeful jewel]

Petrol fires in a dry environment will be very destructive. I've seen the results in a huge forest fire in my home state. Some Hamas could have been overcome by smoke inhalation from their own fires.

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/AMokhallalati/status/1725806166637236289

[grand fiber]

That seems to contradict this claim.
#1160132507472244839 message

[short yacht]

The post above seems to be from a doctor at Al Shifa. Account was created in November 2023 which is suspect, but could also be explained by the imperative felt by Palestinian doctors to communicate to the world what is happening. Also the LinkedIn in bio is more detailed

I think the claim you linked to was elaborated upon to say a certain number had died and the rest were expected to die soon from fatigue and, you know, lack of proper incubation

[short yacht]

In this one

[south cairn]

I made the experience multiple times in this conflict, that people don’t communicate clearly what they meant and this causes conspiracy theories. It is unclear if all 200 bodies were Hamas fighters. || Maybe they also found body parts and thought they were multiple people when in fact they were from the same person. Also Hamas did set a lot of houses on fire with the inhabitants inside, or burnt people alive. ||

[mellow sky]

Statement from WHO on its mission to Shifa hospital today. https://www.emro.who.int/media/news/who-leads-very-high-risk-joint-humanitarian-mission-to-al-shifa-hospital-in-gaza.html?format=html#

[real lodge]

there is very graphic video floating around of Hamas starting fires using fuel and ||using home appliances against families and children in houses, homes all of which have plenty of combustible things in them||. I don't recommend seeking it out. I don't think it will further any understanding. I think it will take months to get a full forensic accounting of it. ZAKA is involved in a lot of this. You could start with them.

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/NoonanJoe/status/1725811872790614331 it looks like this physician is Irish-Palestinian

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/alihashem_tv/status/1725902747352846786

It's hard to keep track of how many journalists the IDF has killed

Didn't see this earlier by UNRWA commissioner general: https://vxtwitter.com/UNLazzarini/status/1725961224515416164

[tight kernel]

CPJ keeps a list
https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/

[umbral pilot]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/18/us-israel-hamas-reach-tentative-deal-pause-conflict-free-dozens-hostages/

Gift Link: https://wapo.st/47XGmLF

Embed isn’t working, but per the Washington Post, Israel and Hamas have reached a tentative cease fire agreement brokered by the US per sources

Edit: fixed spelling, thanks autocorrect

[woeful jewel]

Says tentative

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/michaelh992/status/1725942244832616635

[short yacht]

Well that didn't last long

[glacial leaf]

This was posted about 7 1/2 hours ago on Twitter.

[woeful jewel]

Yeah and otoh wapo article about 20 min old

[short yacht]

So a little pause then back to the new normal. Sounds fine.

[velvet bison]

If the deal actually happens, it's unclear who is actually policing the terms of the conflict. It says they'll use aerial surveillance, but which party does that? The US?

[atomic ridge]

Some suggestion the WaPo reporting is wrong
https://vxtwitter.com/academic_la/status/1726065733166342604

US NSC confirmed no deal (yet) https://vxtwitter.com/NSC_Spox/status/1726064620387897370

[glacial leaf]

"Israel killed journalist Sari Mansour a few hours ago. His colleagues carry out his funeral procession." **CW for close up of deceased journalist including some blood and head injuries. ** ||https://x.com/AlnaouqA/status/1725990581090894186?s=20||

[woeful jewel]

https://vxtwitter.com/SCMPNews/status/1726071878815490525?t=aBK6z1dwxXHv_EG8Vs3M7A&s=19

[bitter hollow]

Reuters article itself: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-palestinian-authority-should-ultimately-govern-gaza-west-bank-2023-11-18/
With some extra bits.

[glacial leaf]

"Video showing Arieh Zalman Zdmanovitch) ID # 0010185791, who underwent intensive care, returned to his detention, and died as a result of panic attacks caused by the constant Israeli bombing around his detention location." Content Warning: Close up of captive attached to a medical device followed by a body in a white shroud. https://x.com/localfocus1/status/1725236607588991191?s=46&t=a8ZjE5kWJv6nAliWrfS35w

[dire summit]

If there is a content warning, the link is probably better spoilered.
In this case it is moot because the link is dead but just for future reference.
Thank you!

[glacial leaf]

Odd, the link should work. I edited to link to the first tweet in the thread. Info about the hostage is down in the thread.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/msf_canada/status/1726061176449015828

[unborn nymph]

What happened, do we have more details?

[thick spruce]

https://www.msf.org/gaza-msf-condemns-deliberate-attack-convoy-transporting-staff-resulting-one-death-and-one-injury

[old rover]

https://vxtwitter.com/palestinercs/status/1726210188552638826

[valid sapphire]

Here's a video of it
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz1GqaRsFvj/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

hamdaneldahdouh

نقل 31 طفل خُدج حديثي الولادة من مستشفي الشفاء بغزة الي المستشفى الاماراتي برفح و وفاة اثنين منهم صباحا قبل نقلهم 31 premature newborns were transferred from Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza to the Emirati Hospital in Rafah, and two of them died in the morning before they were transferred. #غزة#غزة#فلسطين#gaza#gaza#palest#save#save#free#isr

Likes

62416

Instagram

[real lodge]

this is great news....https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-red-crescent-un-agencies-evacuate-al-shifa-premature-babies-2023-11-19/ but I think it contradicts earlier claims they all passed away.

I also saw reporting earlier that Israel offered advanced NICU equipment but it was rebuffed by the Gaza Ministry of Health and Hospital staff. So I'm really happy the children got out safely.

[hot axle]

There is new news, see #israel-palestine for conversations https://vxtwitter.com/JSchanzer/status/1726285470651298059

[woeful jewel]

What I heard was some of the babies died and everyone in ICU did

Though I do recall conflicting reportage

[real lodge]

yes it's very hard to parse what is going on. I'm trying to find the article and the source where it said the remaining hospital ministry director demanded that they only drop off one NICU component and some oxygen and batteries at the front door and nothing else. I'll post it when I track it down. Also there is some audio of the negotiations and of course the UNRWA rejecting everything even if it's a piecemeal solution, which is odd frankly. so many actors with different objectives and motivations when speaking publicly.

I'll post it all if it hasn't already been in either channel.

[woeful jewel]

Pretty sure the incubators didn't have what they needed to keep working although a premie won't necessarily die immediately without one

[tight kernel]

Al Shifa is a massive hospital and it's entirely possible to talk to someone who works at the hospital but yet hasn't actually witnessed what happened - think of the big medical centers you know that are several city blocks etc

[real lodge]

good point. probably one of the best things to do is archive the articles I find. I'm kind of surprised how often I am the first archiver on wayback on many of them.

[nocturne void]

IDF Spokesman: Noa Marciano was murdered in cold blood by Hamas at Shifa Hospital

Here is the full message

Joint announcement to the IDF and Shin Bet spokesmen:

New findings revealed by the IDF and the Shin Bet prove that Shifa' Hospital was used as a terrorist infrastructure where Hamas terrorists took hostages on October 7; new details about the circumstances of the death of the late Corporal Noa Marciano*

In the documentation revealed with the help of the General Security Service, Hamas terrorists can be seen on Saturday, October 7, forcibly transporting hostages, a Nepali citizen and a Thai citizen, who were kidnapped from Israeli territory. In addition, military vehicles that were brought from Israel during the murderous massacre can be seen inside the area of Shifa Hospital.

These findings prove that the terrorist organization Hamas used the Shifa hospital on the day of the massacre itself as a terrorist infrastructure.

These findings join the proofs we showed earlier, which prove that the terrorist organization Hamas uses the hospital area as an infrastructure for its terrorist activities in a systematic and ongoing manner.

Attached is documentation from Shifa Hospital from the day of the abduction, October 7, 2023, between the hours of 10:42 and 11:01 a.m. in which abductees from Israeli territory are seen surrounded by armed Hamas terrorists. One of them is injured and is being carried on a hospital bed and the other is walking. These are the abductees, a Thai citizen and a Nepalese citizen, and a message about the found documentation was given to the relevant authorities.
A few days ago, the bodies of the late Yehudit Weiss and the late Corporal Noa Marciano, who were kidnapped on October 7, were returned to Israel. Acting on intelligence information from the Shin Bet, IDF forces located the bodies of Noa and the late Yehudit. Each of them was found in a different building near the Shifa Hospital.

https://t.me/amitsegal/29664

videos of hostages being taken into shifa hospital and pic of idf vehicle in shifa complex on 7/10
https://t.me/amitsegal/29661?single

[real lodge]

here's the article that led me down that this path. according to a pediatric doctor it would help. just incredibly strange the workers in the facility and/or the person running it refused them and only wanted one dropped off at the front door. just very strange to see public declarations (from various sources) saying all passed but then hour later the opposite with rejections for aid. ||https://web.archive.org/web/20231119183831/https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-health-ministry-says-no-objection-moving-babies-no-mechanism-do-so-2023-11-14/|| spoilering for senstivity to the subject. I'm looking for the source material referenced in this article.

[short yacht]

Wait what? Where does this show hostages?

[grand fiber]

The claim is that the injured person in the first video is a hostage.

[short yacht]

I'm assuming they are using some kind of facial recognition to determine that? Because just from the video there's no clear indication

[grand fiber]

I think it's a pretty weird framing. Of course you'd bring an injured hostage to a hospital.

Hostages are worthless when they are dead.

[grand fiber]

The video appears to have the identity redacted.

[short yacht]

Well and the hospital would naturally say yes to treating them because... they're a hospital.

I thought released hostages have said Hamas has their own medics and medical personnel present?

[tawdry apex]

the man on the stretcher has a blurred face but the other man appears to be being taken in under duress and they have something wrapped around his head and face

[raven warren]

i think that's just his shirt being pulled up over his body as he is being pushed etc.?

[calm harness]

To me it liks like he is forced.

[raven warren]

or maybe not, it does look like something stiffer

[tawdry apex]

hamas response: https://t.me/hamasps/17869

[real lodge]

don't ascribe to much to what released hostages say when other hostages are still being held captive. what a released hostage says could be detrimental to the safety and wellbeing of a current hostage.

[raven warren]

kinda interesting that the same guys are handling both hostages within the span of 2 minutes

[short yacht]

Does the guy in the red have a gun slung around him? I can't tell.

Yeah it looks like the person in blue shorts could be forced or under duress. It could be explained as people rushing someone with an injury in (head injury that effects balance or something), but I would expect blood or for the people to carry them. Contextually yeah it looks like someone being forced in.

Also the medical staff guy in black throwing his hands up seemingly in frustration at the people not acknowledging/listening to him

[short yacht]

Could you copy/paste the text or a translation? Not loading on my device it says

[real lodge]

"Hamas
⭕️ Izzat Al-Rishq:
Member of the political bureau of Hamas

Regarding what the spokesman for the terrorist enemy army said about the arrival of prisoners of the occupation to Al-Shifa Hospital, we said early on that the resistance transferred many prisoners of the occupation to hospitals to receive treatment and undergo surgical operations, especially after some of them were injured as a result of the occupation’s aircraft bombing them. We risked our fighters to guarantee the injured prisoners the best treatment."

[short yacht]

The you

[raven warren]

seems like it

[short yacht]

Honestly that explanation tracks more with the available evidence than Israel's "nexus" explanation.

[short yacht]

I don't see why a released hostage, who was very descriptive and forthcoming in their recounting of their experience, would lie or make up having medics on hand

[tawdry apex]

slightly fuller version:

Izzat Al-Rishq, a member of the political bureau of Hamas, made the following statement:

"In response to the comments made by the spokesman for the enemy army regarding the arrival of occupation prisoners at Al-Shifa Hospital, we stated early on that the resistance transferred many prisoners to hospitals for medical treatment and surgical operations. This was particularly necessary as some of them sustained injuries from airstrikes by the occupying forces. We took significant risks to ensure that our fighters provided the best possible treatment for the injured prisoners in hospitals within the Gaza Strip.

We have extensively documented this through numerous pictures. Now, their army spokesman presents it as if they have made a groundbreaking discovery.

The statements made by the spokesman for the occupation army completely condemn them. Caring for prisoners, providing treatment, and offering necessary medical care are points in our favor, not against us."

[real lodge]

"points in our favor, not against us". this is a game to them. 🤮

[short yacht]

The claim of documentation is interesting.

[short yacht]

That passage is just saying the act of taking hostages to receive medical care isn't the "gotcha" that Israel is trying to sell it as in their messaging. Hamas is saying "This is a sign that we are treating the hostages well".

The rhetorical "game" for public opinion is real, as sickening as that is.

[short yacht]

It could be they brought them in one at a time?

[stark oak]

Al Jazeera published this article on the Oct 7 incident a bit ago https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/18/hamas-had-not-planned-to-attack-israel-music-festival-israeli-report-says

Does anyone know where I can have a read of the preliminary police report mentioned or any other coverage of the report?

[nocturne void]

and the man in a light blue shirt in the second video

[astral topaz]

the man in the red shirt might have a gun, the guy in the black shirt clearly does

could be hamas, could be hospital security

[nocturne void]

The Israel Police clarifies that the initial investigation focused on the heroism of the police officers who operated at the scene and the performance of the Israel Police in stopping the massacre committed by Hamas. Contrary to the publication, the police investigation does not refer to the activity of the IDF forces, and therefore no indication was given of harm to civilians as a result of aerial activity at the site
https://www.srugim.co.il/866041-באופן-חריג-המשטרה-מגיבה-לכתבה-בעיתון-ה
https://x.com/Dovrut_Police/status/1726273269647695883?s=20

[short yacht]

I would think hospital security would have clear uniforms but idk. Have seen them mentioned but haven't seen them yet.

[astral topaz]

yeah hamas is more likely, but like you said, taking an injured hostage to a hospital is not proof the hospital is a command hub

[plush sun]

Why would hamas hand off hostages to some kind of hospital security which existence isn't proven so far afaik?

[short yacht]

I think the hospital security force definitely exists in some capacity because that's pretty standard for a large hospital complex

[plush sun]

Unless they are also hamas

[stark oak]

So Haaretz did publish police findings, but I am going to assume that the helicopter claims is mostly conjecture from Arab sources?

[astral topaz]

who said anything about hostages being handed off to the security, the unarmed men could be hamas, the security could insist they didnt bring weapons into the hospital - im just saying the video isnt proof in itself of anything

[short yacht]

With Hamas putting out the statement they did it seems likely the video shows them bringing hostages in for medical treatment

[pulsar falcon]

fwiw i think its very plausible the festival was targeted as a target of opportunity - they crossed over and saw another group they could attack

[plush sun]

There are some older pictures of uniformed hamas members sitting at the hospital entrance

[astral topaz]

i can find you pictures of idf soldiers hanging out at hospitals, it doesnt make the hospital their HQ or a legitimate military target

[short yacht]

If you could find some source for this would be appreciated

[stark oak]

True, the initial Hamas infiltration was quite wide ranging wasn't it?

[short yacht]

It seems like it did not go according to plan based on current information. Quickly went out of control in the extreme, both on the part of Hamas, the other militant forces, and random people who participated

[grand fiber]

That is speculation.

[plush sun]

The festival was relocated to that location just a week or so before so hamas probably only learned on the day of the attack of it.

Regarding hamas ar the entrance . Here is one picture of Hamas at the gate. https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2023/10/AP20239361549202.jpg image text :Hamas terror group members guard the entrance of the Shifa Hospital, in Gaza City, August 26, 2020. (Khalil Hamra/AP)

And this one from 2014: https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725058971193545052. ( not displayed below)

[grand fiber]

Everyone, please remember to check the pinned post on the purpose of each channel. This channel is for breaking news. Discussion (to some extent) can go into #israel-palestine.

[short yacht]

I'll have to do some research later and collect sources. While it's not directly supported by evidence, circumstantial and various sources lead me to say that. I guess I'd call it informed speculation, but yes you're right.

[hot axle]

https://vxtwitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1726328186370408674 https://VXtwitter.com/IDF/status/1726319791865016493

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/MSF_USA/status/1726336247009091622

[glacial leaf]

Any evidence to support this claim: "IDF Spokesman: Noa Marciano was murdered in cold blood by Hamas at Shifa Hospital"

In other words: Is there any evidence to conclude the cause of her death?

[short yacht]

I thought it says they were found in buildings near the hospital?

[pulsar falcon]

don't believe that's possible to conclude with current available data (maybe there's some security footage from the day but it still hasn't been released+don't think it fits the scope)

it's the same as the shani louk situation imo - there's no reason to dispute the idf here

[short yacht]

You mean to say "dispute"?

[pulsar falcon]

yeah my bad

[short yacht]

No worries. I'd say there is reason, but it depends upon whether you find the IDF to be credible. Personally, if a hostage was killed as a result of bombing, I would not expect the IDF to be forthcoming with such a cause based on their track record.

[glacial leaf]

Yeah, I think there's every reason to dispute the IDF. Best to have evidence backed claims.

[sonic ridge]

UAE Emirates Red Crescent has processed some Medvacs.

https://twitter.com/emiratesrc/status/1725946764362969480?t=kfbSpSLqeF9po1S7coMh1w&s=19

31 Premie Babies made it to the Emirates Hospital in Rafah within the last 24 hours.

https://twitter.com/MiddleEastMnt/status/1726308968207704259

They await situation improvement, at which they will be transferred to Egypt.

[short yacht]

https://twitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1726211628633579749

National security minister. Should this go in the West Bank channel or is this good?

[glacial leaf]

I haven't found anything specifc yet, aside from this post on the Times of Israel liveblog which just states again that she was murdered in Al-Shifa Hospital by Hamas but they don't give any evidence. You can read the post if you scroll down a ways to 9:03 pm.They've also included a general map of where the bodies were found in relation to Al-Shifa Hospital. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-november-19-2023/#liveblog-entry-3157794

[glacial leaf]

https://t.me/ignis_fatum/7927

https://t.me/ignis_fatum/7928

A few more details in these Telegram posts.

https://vxtwitter.com/PalinfoAr/status/1726269006943027439 "Gaza Government Information Office publishes a poster for 60 journalists who were killed as a result of the Israeli attacks in the Gaza Strip" (from LiveAUmap)

[short yacht]

Here's the press release by the IDF where they claim hostages were "brought to Shifa and executed within" https://youtu.be/lhbquMxABRU

(I don't see it on IDFs channel, hence The Sun)

[clear olive]

So this source is not necessarily reliable or it doesn't necessarily even exist? How can Haaretz make this up, and why would it? How is Haaretz perceived in Israel?
"According to a police source, an investigation into the incident also revealed that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there."
https://t.co/ccj4J9I3bo

[short yacht]

Haaretz is a high quality source imo

[clear olive]

Ok. Maybe there will be sthg more said about it in the future, in case this "police source" exists.

[bitter hollow]

Here is an English version of that article: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000
First archived version https://archive.is/YkVV5 , last archived version https://archive.is/ofO8X (they have moved "According to police, 364 people were murdered at the festival."
from right after the "IDF combat helicopter that arrived to the scene and fired at terrorists there apparently also hit some revelers."
to right after "Hamas terrorists who committed the October 7 massacre didn’t have advance knowledge about the Nova music festival held next to Kibbutz Re’im, and decided to target the party spontaneously.")

[proper mantle]

I don't follow this. Are they really claiming that Noa Marciano was held in a building near Al Shifa, then taken to the hospital and executed, and then her body was taken back to the building where the IDF found it? (I guess the Q is also whether the same sources are claiming this, or there are two different versions of the story.)

[short yacht]

This video shows the press release where that claim was made.

[proper mantle]

Oh thanks, sorry, I just reflexively ignored The Sun!

[short yacht]

Yeah for some reason the video isn't on IDFs YouTube last I looked

[proper mantle]

OK, so...he is saying that she was 1) held near the hospital and 2) taken to the hospital and killed. He doesn't actually say her body was then taken to one of the spots marked in red on the map behind him, outside the hospital grounds. But that's the implication. Seems like a lot of schlepping, but what do I know.

[short yacht]

I think the person's body wasn't reported as found in the hospital

So it sounds like person was held near hospital, sustained non life-threatening injuries in an airstrike, person was taken to hospital and executed... And evidently moved back out.

[proper mantle]

This seems v complicated! But I don't run a hostage-taking operation.

At least it's more plausible than the "Shani Louk was beheaded" story they were pushing for a day or so.

[short yacht]

I also don't get why they would kill a hostage who wasn't badly wounded... They are the "bargaining chip" as disgusting as that is to say.

[bitter hollow]

I think it is possible that persons body was moved outside the hospital if he have died in the hospital. But moving that person to the hospital to execute him does not sound likely.

[short yacht]

IDF is claiming "conclusive evidence they were executed, and didn't die from the airstrike"

[real lodge]

the haaretz article is the sole journalistic source of the helicopter claim. no other evidence of the claim exists as far as I have found. any other articles mentioned it consistently lead back to that haaretz article that the author Josh Breiner wrote. if someone can find an article that doesn't source Josh's article I'd like to see it if you come across something. i think it's interesting that the fake helicopter X post on Nov 9 that went viral over the course of several days is followed on by Josh's article on the 18th. https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20231113-disproving-claims-that-israeli-helicopter-fired-on-their-own-civilians-at-nova-music-festival

[short yacht]

Interesting in what way?

[real lodge]

Things that go viral sometime bleed into journalism. (think USL letter recently, it was nothing at first, then yashar made it go viral, then early scoop oriented low fact checking media picked it up and said it was viral because of the og content and not yashar broadcasting it, then finally media caught up and said wait, it really wasn't that viral prior to Yashar making it so).

Without the original author revealing the source of the helicopter claim or more details of his claims it's plausible either the journalist or the source he's citing might have been influenced by this. Just a theory. That's why I really want to see more journalists investigate Josh's claims. If more can corroborate his sources claims it would have more weight. If someone finds other articles that don't cite the haaretz article that would be constructive.

[bitter hollow]

Yes, I have not seen other respectable source except for that Haaretz article for this claim (but I have not looked into it).
Alternative explanation for why that article appeared after the fake supporting video evidence - that journalist might have started looking into it only after he have learned about that claim supported by fake video evidence.
Anyway, I have not seen data that can be used to verify in any way the claim in the Haaretz article.

[real lodge]

i think this Reuters article summarizes the chain of events as best known well https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-says-55-metre-fortified-tunnel-found-under-gazas-shifa-hospital-2023-11-19/

[real lodge]

also plausible. we do have details about the original helicopter firing claim as mentioned earlier in this channel much farther north (geoconfirmed, et. al).

[short yacht]

I would think that if Haaretz is reporting it it's well sourced. I've been reading them for a long time and it'd be out of character. Mistakes and misjudgements happen though

[proper mantle]

Ah, forgot about this video, of a soldier showing where her body was found: https://vxtwitter.com/YaariCohen/status/1726333795693920329?s=20

[proper mantle]

I haven't watched all of this yet, but it seems potentially useful for visual reference -- a documentary called Group Number 9 (مجموعة رقم 9) made for Al-Jazeera about the 2014 Al-Qassem Brigades attack on Nahal Oz, with lots of footage in the tunnels. Someone has independently added English subtitles: https://peertube.it/w/1Ma9kb7hWoAp99hEWgwuW1

This is the original tweet by the person who translated it: https://x.com/meowsandry/status/1726366416159301986?s=20

And someone in the replies points out a discrepancy between the tunnel doors in the documentary and the "blast door" in the IDF's Al Shifa video from earlier today. (I did not personally compare, and apologies if this repeats something previously noted here - I haven't been following the Al Shifa digging videos really) https://vxtwitter.com/jfdjydckykx7/status/1726391403985469867?s=20

[short yacht]

This is probably the most convincing evidence that the hole isn't Hamas made. I used to help pour concrete as a child and had a stint as a job cost estimator at a concrete pouring firm (family trade type deal).

Pouring 10ft tall, thick concrete columns would be a major project and require proper excavation, framing, vibrating to remove air pockets, setting. It's a big, loud, expensive, obvious project. The images I've seen of known Hamas tunnels use pre-cast pieces fitted into place vs large cast on site stuff.

[stark oak]

So they would be there the moment Al Shifa had its foundations laid down?

[short yacht]

Oh I have no idea. Just that it would be a noticeable construction project.

That amount of concrete you'd need a mixing truck on site

[dire summit]

Hi amigos
I hope you're all doing ok considering....
I've noticed over the past couple of days there has been an increase in chatter in this channel.
As per the message in the pins above:
"This is for videos, images, geolocation, and information that is breaking. SPOILER SENSITIVE CONTENT AND ADD A NON-SPOILERED DESCRIPTION. USE THE SEARCH BAR. "
If we can try and keep the conversation to #israel-palestine that will make things tidier and much easier to navigate.
Thanks 👍

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/TomWhiteGaza/status/1726475290723938610 <-Director of UNRWA Affairs in Gaza

[nocturne void]

a pathological report
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-774083

[short yacht]

That's not a report. That's R.-Adm Hagari saying a pathology report indicates that.

[nocturne void]

true. I thought the question was does the idf claim to have evidence so I shared what the idf says it's evidence is

[thick shadow]

I dont understand the argument, why would hamas need to do that discreetly? They run the gaza strip.

[short yacht]

Ah sorry, I misinterpreted.

[pulsar falcon]

Also it could also be the reported Israeli built bunker they have repurposed

[dire summit]

This channel is for videos, images, geolocation, and information that is breaking. SPOILER SENSITIVE CONTENT AND ADD A NON-SPOILERED DESCRIPTION. USE THE SEARCH BAR.
The message immediately above asks you to take any conversations to #israel-palestine but you choose to ignore moderator directions.
We shouldn't have to keep iterating this.
Please take note.
Thanks.

[clear olive]

Dr ghassan abu sitta, who is now in Amman, Jordan, describes the types of weapons that might have been used based on the injuries he saw. Aljazeera clip. At the end of the clip he describes seeing ||blast injuries (shrapnel, multiple fractures, soft tissue torn away from the body), white phosphorus burns, burns from incendiary bombs where there's a fireball. When he was at al-ahli he saw gilhotine-like injuries with serrated edges in the wounds, that happens at mid-thigh or mid-arm and not at the joints (cluster bombs? "The missil is composed of multiple layers of shrapnel, like an armadillo...will release this disks causing horrendeous amputations"). Also saw quadcopter gunshot wounds in the patients that were trying to come to the hospital. || https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz11TrLIjnD/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

lamabazzari

“For me, what has made this war different than all of the other wars...is the way that the destruction of the health system has been the main thrust of the military strategy, with the goal of ethnically cleansing Gaza. More than 800,000 people in Northern Gaza now have no access to healthcare,” Dr Ghassan Abu Sitteh.

Interview with Dr. Ghassan...

Likes

19058

Instagram

[grand fiber]

Could you please add a short summary of the relevant information? The embed only contains political commentary.

[clear olive]

It's at the end of the clip. She asks him what sort of injuries did you see this time around.

[grand fiber]

No, I mean adding the relevant information to your description (with spoiler tags). It saves people a lot of time if they don't have to watch the whole video for a small section.

[grand fiber]

Thanks!

[thick shadow]

seems like hezbollah is stepping up its attacks, no reported casualities:

https://fxtwitter.com/alihashem_tv/status/1726550879904600473

[fervent jewel]

I don't think all blast doors are identical. I think there may be some merit in thinking that this shaft was not dug just for a Hamas tunnel, and the tunnel was dug at the bottom of it. But I'm no engineer!

[bitter hollow]

Just published Houthis helicopter assault on an Israeli owned cargo ship "Galaxy Leader".
No killing, no injuries, some screams and taking of hostages in the video.
||https://fxtwitter.com/army21ye/status/1726640362071248948||

[atomic ridge]

Is this the ship the Israeli government said is from Turkey and has no Israelis? https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1726242707763564828

[bitter hollow]

Should be: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/20/yemen-houthi-rebels-seize-cargo-ship-galaxy-leader-red-sea-israel

[thick shadow]

some reports about israel accepting hamas conditions in the hostage negotiations: https://fxtwitter.com/kann_news/status/1726662062774915216/en

[atomic ridge]

Some video released of IDF going into a mosque that appears to have been deserted and used by Hamas, including a tunnel going down... a lot of weapons shown, not sure how clearly.
https://vxtwitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1726674243541499961

[thick shadow]

hamas denies: https://fxtwitter.com/alqudsnewspaper/status/1726684643817410710/en

[thick shadow]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/20/hostages-families-clash-with-israeli-politicians-over-talk-of-death-penalty

[real lodge]

So the Houthis have trained pilots who can operate a MI-17? Is this the same ship? https://www.marinevesseltraffic.com/vessels/GALAXY-LEADER/CURRENT-POSITION/9237307/311408000

If it is it and the AIS is still accurate at last location thats about 650 km from Yemen, unless the helicopter left from Sudan.

[pulsar falcon]

i believe it's the same ship and yes - the houthis have trained pilots. no idea if theyre local or mercenaries but at the very least we've seen 3 mi-8/17 flown (plus a bonus f-5)

https://vxtwitter.com/JoshuaKoontz__/status/1704846294571745327?s=20

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/JehadAbusalim/status/1726672485515702654

[random birch]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-advocacy-group-accepts-news-outlets-had-no-prior-warning-hamas-attack-2023-11-10

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/NourNaim88/status/1726692062295474527

And another one https://vxtwitter.com/hzomlot/status/1726738856446206240

[sonic ridge]

I had thought that this footage was confirmed to have been near the border?

That is to say, the footage was from a helicopter on that day, but, the circumstances were not stated (i.e. at the music festival).

https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1726688013873213482

[bitter hollow]

Yes, that that helicopter footage is unrelated to what is claimed in the Haaretz article, to my knowledge.

[valid sapphire]

https://fxtwitter.com/QudsNen/status/1726914885634728364?t=LWQhr6EAm6ldtUgPpfeMCA&s=19
Three more journalists killed

[random birch]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/several-idf-deaths-in-gaza-were-the-result-of-friendly-fire-security-sources/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-strikes-kill-family-members-journalist-targeted-by-death-threats-2023-11-20/

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/pressfreedom/status/1726687668942364717

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1726957507040735573

[mint comet]

yes they have, most of the pilotes are trained in Iran, soldiers, hmn ... not so much, very poor techinque, pointing gun into their buddies,...

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/michaelh992/status/1726987068067201399?s=20

[tight kernel]

https://vxtwitter.com/lcmporter/status/1727014805306056968?s=19

https://vxtwitter.com/KenRoth/status/1727012582400147922?s=19

And more hospital evacuations (screenshot cause live thread here
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/21/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-latest-news-on-gaza-conflict.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.PostToTwitter

[valid sapphire]

There's no hospitals left then

[tight kernel]

I remember there was one with "Turkish" in the name (maybe Turkish Friendship?) - is that no longer operating? RL has been intense for a few weeks

[valid sapphire]

I will look

[tight kernel]

@hollow turret with the geolocation https://vxtwitter.com/JakeGodin/status/1726994006612295808?s=19

[hollow turret]

Seems likely it was a Spike munition from the IDF as well, as per Marc Garlasco's initial assessment https://vxtwitter.com/marcgarlasco/status/1726997680864579821

[tight kernel]

This has more video of the area if needed (doubtful with the existing geolocation but there is some panning) and does not show any strike.
https://vxtwitter.com/mayadeenlebanon/status/1726885825169019162?s=19

[calm harness]

I saved 11min from the livestream, ping me if interested. - The aftermath part where they walk around and show craters etc.

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/michaelh992/status/1727030981973164035?s=20

[mellow sky]

There are 13 hospitals in the north/ Gaza city. See page 5: https://reliefweb.int/attachments/09e52bf3-1266-40af-9d88-d828f426b70a/Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israe..31.pdf

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1727044479977439265

[clear olive]

3 more doctors killed today when Al Awda hospital in Northern Gaza was hit on 3rd and 4th floors https://twitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1727015878951370752?s=19

[proper mantle]

Speaking of hospitals in N Gaza, none of them show up in Google Maps when you "search nearby" for hospital (or مستشفى as I just tried). If you zoom in, the pins for Ahli, Shifa, Indonesian, etc are still there. They just don't show up in search. Did anyone happen to run this same search earlier in October, say, and get more results? Or does anyone have any insight into Google Maps' search function that might shed light on why this is happening for a not-creepy reason?

[clear olive]

I got this results searching for hospital in English just now. They seem to show.

[proper mantle]

OK, thanks. I wonder if it's an app vs. desktop difference.

[clear olive]

But only 18 are showing, and I think there are 35

[proper mantle]

I noticed that all the hospitals, north and south, are flagged with an "Info alert" ("Information about this place may be outdated"), so a generous, not-creepy explanation could be that the ones in the north are suppressed in search (for me anyway) on the logic that they can't help you with your medical problem at this time.

[proper mantle]

This discrepancy might be due to some of them not being tagged "Hospital" in English. (That was why I searched in Arabic. When I search "hospitals" nearby in English, I get only two results in the whole strip.)

[proper mantle]

Actually, I think I see: it's the difference between using "See nearby" and just searching "hospital" (or the Arabic) and clicking "Search this area." So maybe on the "See nearby" search function there's some kind of filter for "See nearby [that can actually help you at this moment]."

[clear olive]

Yeah with the Arabic word I see more and if I zoom in a see even more

[proper mantle]

Thanks for walking through that with me!

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/ErinBanco/status/1727088502230466744

At best disregarding this info while targeting, at worst using this info for targets

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/elonmusk/status/1727050649400123686

[late kraken]

If he keeps his word and is transparent (lol, I can dream right?) it means we would get a value of how much he makes from that. Sounds like a couple hundo

[velvet bison]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-21-2023-39f5ae0bdb4e32f0e69115aa43446132

[velvet bison]

waiting on Qatar to make the formal announcement https://vxtwittercom/Bsamuels0/status/1727142711315386386?s=20

[velvet bison]

more details

Media reports ahead of the vote said Israel would free some 150 Palestinian prisoners and allow additional humanitarian aid into Gaza as part of the deal, but the Israeli statement made no mention of either of these elements. It was not clear when the truce, brokered by the U.S. and Qatar, would go into effect.

[tight kernel]

Good, each life saved is worth everything to someone

[velvet bison]

Indeed

[tight kernel]

The cease fire would not begin before Thursday because the Israeli judiciary must approve
Israel and Hamas Say They Will Uphold Cease-Fire for Hostages to Be Released https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11/21/world/israel-hamas-gaza-war-news?smid=nytcore-android-share

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1727243813809434643

[thick shadow]

https://fxtwitter.com/guyelster/status/1727276430634172842/en

[thick shadow]

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/22/hamas-hostage-deal-mossad-intel-barnea-qatar

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/letsgomathias/status/1727180700863095211

[stark stream]

More war footage from Hama/AJ ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCLOt5mDs1U|| Has some potential signatures for geolocation.
Spoilered due to volence and intent [particularly the last scene]

[tight kernel]

Can you tell us the setting, etc - any nonviolent details so we know the context?

I don't want to watch it but if a person comes looking for a certain video I like to know where to point them

[stark stream]

Yeah apologies, its war footage of Hamas using RPGs to ambush tanks, particularly of note is there is one scene were a shop placard can be seen which would allow for geolocation of troop movements.
The final scene is Hamas fighters preparing to ambush some Israeli soldiers

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/splcunion/status/1714710978732995057

[atomic ridge]

A lot more footage of unearthing tunnels and tunnel entrances in/around Shifa
https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1727386017328758951

[calm harness]

One-shot tunnel walkthrough: https://videoidf.azureedge.net/3a8884a0-370a-4f58-bfc5-7ea59e92b88b

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/atRachelGilmore/status/1727378729654235333

Not entirely sure how the Canadian legal system works; is this like a civil suit in the US?

[warped river]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-22-2023-d12c1728cbae0ff74a69cc9cc3e8a646

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1727216854836347304

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ramijarrah/status/1727585818426982753

[shut ocean]

i geolocated before the same place in 00:16 near mosque https://fxtwitter.com/ja31ck/status/1726370491139600642?s=20

[nocturne void]

#1161401676943609907 message

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/shlomo_karhi/status/1727677351083827432

[bitter hollow]

Twitter bio: "Minister of Communications, Member of Knesset on behalf of the Likud faction. Doctor of industrial engineering and management, accountant, married and father of eight. A resident of the Gaza Strip envelope" (do not trust Google translate)

[nocturne void]

it should be translated as cessation of advertising not cessation of publication

in other words they're not shutting down haaretz or anything like that, just stopping advertising by government bodies and users that are in state service in haaretz and cancelling idf police and government offices subscriptions to haaretz

[nocturne void]

and it says תושב עוטף עזה (resident of otef aza) which is not a resident of the gaza strip

(please try confirming what I assume is autotranslated or ai translated words with speakers of the language since they many times make crucial mistakes 🙏)

[bitter hollow]

Thank you very much, I did not expect google translate to make that bad of a mistake.

[proper mantle]

Yes, thanks! I was looking at that guy's account a couple of days ago for some reason and was very puzzled by that phrase.

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/AJENews/status/1727636288592093367

[hot axle]

https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1727692407997714602

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/themermacorn/status/1727701031314690280

Maybe more clarification on this: #1160132507472244839 message

Another source should be found for this. Don't know if this Twitter account is reliable

[rugged urchin]

Considering not too far down from that one they're quoting a tweet that paints a Al-Jamāʻah head as a martyr and innocent victim of CIA relocation I'd be hesitant to take anything posted by the account at face value.

[short yacht]

Probably not but that's why a closer source should be found

[rugged urchin]

Ye.

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/jeremyscahill/status/1727753379772875197

[hot axle]

https://VXtwitter.com/IDF/status/1727791887166157199

[hot axle]

https://VXtwitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/1727787531075244495

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/YunaLeibzon/status/1727814500286394423

[hot axle]

https://vxtwitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1727821041731604917

[short yacht]

https://www.ft.com/content/277573ae-fbbc-4396-8faf-64b73ab8ed0a?shareType=nongift

[velvet bison]

Ceasefire has officially begun https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-23-2023-fae556c7bdcc5d120b7617d72238b26e

It appears someone isn't respecting the ceasefire #1160893738973929493 message

[velvet bison]

IDF: The IDF has completed its operational preparations according to the combat lines of the pause; Earlier this morning, IDF troops destroyed the terror tunnel that was revealed in the area of the Shifa Hospital

The IDF has completed its operational preparations according to the combat lines of the pause.

Earlier today, IDF troops destroyed a route of underground tunnels and a number of tunnel shafts in the area of the Shifa Hospital.

Over the last day and night, IDF troops on the ground, in the air, and at sea continued to strike terror targets, operate in different areas to locate suspicious structures and engage with terrorists. In addition, the forces struck a terror tunnel route, which was identified over the past few days.

https://t.me/idfofficial/5452

[velvet bison]

Footage
https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1727930962430840912

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1727919092001112140

[hybrid lintel]

Red Alert shows rocket attacks 15 minutes after: https://x.com/tzevaadom_/status/1727919119524077640

[tight kernel]

This thread about that is interesting
https://vxtwitter.com/wesleysmorgan/status/1727927532471587044?s=19

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1728053053536759882?s=20

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1727981396839330286

[hybrid lintel]

First group of hostages has arrived to Israel: https://vxtwitter.com/israelwarroom/status/1728094938204610904

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/ICRC_ilot/status/1727949700240724039

[neat edge]

https://vxtwitter.com/Laura_E_Adkins/status/1728091995111903690

Thread worth following of the released hostages.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/m_alsanusi87/status/1728117777553052012

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/MairavZ/status/1728147932422000921

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/beltrew/status/1728114890844295226

[short yacht]

https://vxtwitter.com/CFWIJ/status/1727950610182361307

[short yacht]

https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-forces-fire-tear-gas-at-west-bank-crowds-celebrating-release-of-palestinian-prisoners-13015246

[calm harness]

https://t.me/eyeonpal/5862 - Video: Looks like the IDF actually left Shifa, and destroyed the entrances to the tunnels before leaving.

[nocturne void]

notice the hamas flags

[neat edge]

https://vxtwitter.com/i24news_en/status/1728530918770459106

Her father was the man who did the highly emotional video about how (when he was told she was dead) he was relieved as it was better than her being in Hamas captivity.

https://youtu.be/ZdlTEwdd_tI (warning: that this is heartbreaking)

Some positive news, I suppose. Hope the poor child is alright.

[outer prawn]

Israel "kidnapped" her! Israel is a democratic state so it doesn't kidnap people. She was arrested for trying to kill a border guard with a knife.
There is a prison sentence for any person attempting murder in democracies.

[nocturne void]

there's literally a list of the reasons every one of the terrorists being released were in prison

[hybrid lintel]

Tbf there is an argument to be had regarding lack of due process, but yes, the framing of this issue as „Israel kidnapping Palestinian children for no reason“ is misleading

[astral topaz]

This isn't news or information, it's speculation and opinion

[nocturne void]

saying a prisoner charged with attempted murder is kidnapped is disinformation so it's quite important and relevant to news and information

[pulsar falcon]

in this case id say its better in the #1161401676943609907 channel

[brittle arch]

IDF: Five senior Hamas commanders killed before ceasefire went into effect.
https://vxtwitter.com/idfonline/status/1728754921242349798

[brittle arch]

“In a statement, the military wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, said Ahmed Ghandour, the commander of its northern Gaza brigade; Ayman Siam, the head of Hamas’s rocket firing array; as well as Wael Rajab and Raafat Salman were killed.
The Israel Defense Forces had previously said it had targeted Ghandour and Siam, but did not confirm they had been killed. After Hamas’s announcement, the IDF confirmed it had killed Ghandour, Siam, Rajab, Salman, and Farsan Khalifa, another senior member.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-confirms-senior-commanders-killed-in-earlier-gaza-fighting/

[valid sapphire]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/26/israel-hamas-war-live-hostages-ceasefire-gaza-palestinian-prisoners-truce

[orchid nymph]

She was 16 when arrested, many of these arrested children do not get a fair trial. There are thousands of Palestinians in Israeli jails under "administrative detention", meaning they do not get any process or any trial, and can be kept in jail for as long as they want. So to Palestinians these people are as much hostages as the Israeli's being kept by Hamas.

Many human rights organisations are writing about the extremely unjust treatment of Palestinians in Israeli jails, like in this article:

"The children are often subjected to physical and psychological torture, according to child rights groups. They are interrogated without the presence of a parent or lawyer, and critics have accused Israel of exploiting their detention to turn them into informants and to extort their families financially by forcing them to pay huge fines."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jails

[grand fiber]

Everyone, please keep in mind that discussion goes in #israel-palestine. This channel is intended for breaking news only. Check the pinned posts for additional information about the channels.

[real lodge]

Sadly, Avigayil Idan, the 4-year old Israeli-American won't be meeting her parents on her return. Both her mother and father were murdered by Hamas. Her 9-year old brother, Michael, also survived and was not kidnapped, but he no longer communicates, and is looked after by their grandfather Carmel. I hope they find healing. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67538443 this leaves the current number hostages at 184.

[brave marsh]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/armed-individuals-seize-israeli-managed-oil-tanker-gulf-aden-us-official-2023-11-26/

https://theatlasnews.co/conflict/2023/11/26/uss-mason-detains-five-pirates-after-attempted-tanker-seizure-japan-helps-china-does-not/

[tight kernel]

You can crosspost this to #1164712839206936688 if you've not seen the thread yet (I know there's a lot to keep track of!)

[brittle arch]

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-775242

[real lodge]

https://web.archive.org/web/20231127050109/https://www.thedailybeast.com/hamas-needs-to-find-40-missing-hostages-to-extend-truce-qatari-pm?ref=home?ref=home trying to get the FT article this is sourced from.

[glacial leaf]

Your casual use of the term "terrorist" is concerning.

[formal musk]

Please continue this conversation in DMs if you all want

[glacial leaf]

I definitely don't.

[formal musk]

Great, then let's all move on and help keep the server running smoothly

[glacial leaf]

I see it spilled over into #israel-palestine before I checked that channel.

[upbeat tulip]

https://fxtwitter.com/alexcrawfordsky/status/1728474884919947633

[pulsar falcon]

I can get the article for you

[pulsar falcon]

https://on.ft.com/40T1h01 (gift link)

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1729148494886432925?s=20

[real lodge]

Thank you!

By my understanding the current ceasefire agreement adds a day for every 10 released, so with 184 hostages that's 19 days. With 184 hostages of Hamas/PIJ/Etc. released and 552 Palestinians detained by Israel released along 3800 relief trucks entering Gaza over 19 days. I worried about the closer we got to the end of the current ceasefire that the agreement would break down as it seems like a lot of it relates to whom is released from what I have read. Glad it's holding and more will be released. Seems like each deadline period it's going to go down to the wire. Also glad that the hostage that PIJ claimed just early this week that were killed in IDF airstrikes are indeed alive and were released. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-2023-11-21/card/hostage-hanna-katzir-was-released-alive-after-militants-said-she-was-dead-RUerbMZ4OMRSGb0WQh9E

[real lodge]

I'm really glad you shared this. I don't think the other outlets that are picking up on it are even quoting the most interesting parts like this part “Talking about the day after as the killing and the massacres is ongoing is just like endorsing this war,” Sheikh Mohammed said. “The amount of anger and agitation in the Arab population in the region is unprecedented when they see these images, and nobody is stepping up to stop it.”

[glacial leaf]

It doesn't work to build credibility as a media outlet when they use the term "terrorists" for Palestinian prisoners.

[late kraken]

It's a very pro-Israel source.

In any case independently of the credibility and bias of a source it's always good to see if a second independent source also reports on it

[real lodge]

https://web.archive.org/web/20231127200842/https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-11-27/ty-article/.highlight/0000018c-11e6-d2ae-afcf-35f6e9390000 i’m reluctant to share this given the reaction in the past on here from some anons has been conspiratorial and unproductive. Omri Marian on Bluesky summarized it as thus “Haaretz's Amos Har'el reports that several IDF's elite 8200 Intelligence Unit WOs reported several times recently (and as late as August) that Hamas has completed training for massacres in the Gaza Envelope's Kibbutzim, explicitly refereeing the planned murder of civilians. They were ignored.” Anyone find a good full translation to English?

[real lodge]

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-no-longer-has-youngest-israeli-hostage-kfir-bibas-f8od4ay3 9 children under 18 year olds still are hostages. The youngest is 9 months old. His brother and mother and father are all held as well. It's unclear if the father is alive as he was last seen with a serious head wound. The Israeli government has a list of the current hostages for release on Tuesday as well and 33 Palestinians, unclear the ages so far, are being released. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article-live/hamas-seeks-longer-cease-fire-as-sides-enter-final-day-of-swap-39-israelis-freed-so-far/0000018c-0ef1-d679-abdc-9ef9589f0000?liveBlogItemId=525209545#525209545

[broken gorge]

https://themessenger.com/news/red-cross-refused-to-bring-medicine-to-israeli-hostage-on-verge-of-death-report I've seen Israeli twitter accounts be angry at the Red Cross recently. This source is very right wing

[glacial leaf]

Is there a direct quote from a Red Cross personnel or statement from the org about this?

[hybrid lintel]

Red Cross commented earlier on their difficulties in visiting the hostages (as cited by Times of Israel): “We cannot do this alone; agreements must be reached that allow the ICRC to safely carry out this work.”

“ICRC cannot force its way in to where hostages are held. We can only visit them when agreements, including safe access, are in place,” she said.

[glacial leaf]

I'm mostly interested in evidence (or lack of) the Red Cross expressing refusal to provide medications. There is a difference between refusing to provide meds and the sheer inability to.

[hybrid lintel]

The criticism on the RC is that they are not doing enough to ensure that the hostages are properly taken care of; whether it is true, or whether they are indeed doing their best under the circumstances is up to interpretation. They also faced very similar comments from Ukraine for their inability to protect the Ukrainian PoW from being mistreated/killed in Russian prison camps.

[glacial leaf]

OK so it sounds like The Messenger article/accusation should go in Disinfo.

[hybrid lintel]

Not really, the article does not mention the reason for RC refusal. In absence of further information, one can at most say that the article is lacking the context of RC not having access to the hostages in general.

[glacial leaf]

The article is lacking evidence that the Red Cross refused to provide medications to this captive. Emphasis on the word "refused"

[half panther]

‏It’s an interpretation of the statements made by her children. They blame the international organizations, and specifically the ICRC, for not doing enough and abandoning the hostages.
‏You can see the video and partial transcription here (Heb):
‏https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bjze60zra

‏A more accurate but also partial transcription here (Heb):

‏https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-11-27/ty-article/.premium/0000018c-10c2-d679-abdc-96fa2fb10000?gift=502380a9d89a405bae9e018e9e29c3ce

‏The relevant part: "She was abandoned twice. She was first abandoned on Oct 7 and she was abandoned for the second time by all the organizations that were supposed to save her and prevent the condition she’s in. […] My brother went to a meeting with the ICRC representative and tried to give [them her] medications, they told him ‘no, we cannot take the medications’. A few days later we were in a demonstration of all medical teams in front of the ICRC building, again we met there, again we were rejected, at the entrance: ‘you came again with her medication?’ My mother shouldn’t have returned like this [i.e. reached this state]"

‏The statement made by Dr. Davidovitch who participated in the meetings with the ICRC also suggest that the ICRC was unable to reach the hostages and that not enough is being done to allow them access:
‏“The fact that Elma reached such a state at the hands of Hamas is a badge of shame to the world. No one should reach this state. […] The Israeli government, the US government, the leaders of Qatar need to make every effort to bring back the hostages now or at the very least to allow the ICRC in to give them life saving medications"

[tight kernel]

"suggest that the ICRC was unable to reach the hostages" is what I had read last night while looking into this

It looks like being able to visit them may be part of the truce deal
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-signals-red-cross-will-visit-remaining-hostages-in-gaza-backing-israeli-assertion/

[half panther]

Sorry for the right-to-left. Can’t seem to edit it on my phone. If it’s too much of a bother I’ll try to fix later

[tight kernel]

It's totally fine!

But to me it seems like the family wasn't in the loop about the actual capabilities of the Red Cross. I'm not surprised they wouldn't take someones medications/items when they don't have access to that person. Maybe they will issue a statement after this

[nocturne void]

https://x.com/pozailov1/status/1729117675308175479?s=20
Alma Avraham's children, whose life is in danger: she was abandoned twice. Once on October 7th and a second time by all the organizations that had to save her. We brought her medicine to the Red Cross representative by hand and she refused to accept it.
A few days later we were at a demonstration in front of the Red Cross building. We were rejected again. The only reason we expose ourselves is to save those who are left there. For someone to move the Red Cross and the women's organizations. What are they there for?
We don't leave them until everyone comes home. It is critical that aid gets there. My mother is proof of the insane cruelty of this organization. All the international rescue organizations must do everything, Israel must do everything to make the help available as quickly as possible. Every hour is critical. If she would have arrived after another day - she probably wouldn't have.

[half panther]

I agree. Many people have misconceptions about their actual capabilities. I say this from my experience from a few years back, trying to coordinate visits in immigration detention centers. Although they have periodic visits and they will except requests to visit specific individuals, they will only make interventions vis-à-vis the authorities and are not allowed to disclose any information to families/NGOs. The explanation provided is the obligation to remain neutral in order to ensure the continued cooperation of all sides, but nevertheless it causes a lot of frustration because most people think of they are some sort of Médecins Sans Frontières

[hybrid lintel]

More reporting by Jpost on the story: https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-775395. In particular this part is concerning: „“No one from the international organizations bothered to create a list with the medications she required,” her daughter continued“. I get RC not taking medications given their inability to reach the hostages at the moment, but at least getting information from the families about special needs of the hostages would make sense?

[half panther]

Can you send a link to a video of the statement where she mentions the Women Organizations? Because I translated from the video in the Ynet article and there’s no mention of it there.

[half panther]

@nocturne void see the vid on Ynet

[stark stream]

Something that is confusing me and maybe others is What capabilities the international red cross has and what capabilities the international red crescent has. Do they collaborate or do they have different lines of interest and one is favoured over the other and so forth? Or are they the same institution with different names depending on the national religion interest.

[true stream]

AFAICT, there's an international umbrella org, and national local orgs, but not always adequate oversight, compliance checking etc.
It's led to bad optics for the ICRC a number of times before.

[stark stream]

Because something I noticed was many of the trucks taking former hostages were red cross I wonder if that's for Optics reasons or whether there is a large distrust between many organisations,which has led to the situation as it currently stands. I suppose the next question is are each red cross in country intiative seperate for example does the Gazian Red cross mission have to report upwards and so on.. Because it may be that the local red crescent/ red cross is trusted and the international one is not. [ This is really showing my lack of understanding of the company makeup of the red cross]

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/no_itsmyturn/status/1729485308767371607?s=20

https://vxtwitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1729489312092180726?s=20

[stark stream]

I haven't seen any formal ceasefire agreement so I don't know whether planting IEDS formally breaks the ceasefire.
EDIT:Set of large fires currently burning in Gaza:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrZMFJwlq0k no strike sounds so potentially evidence of IED

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/michaelh992/status/1729495609206267956?s=20

[real lodge]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-28/ty-article-live/11-hostages-freed-from-gaza-israel-receives-list-of-10-more-to-be-released-on-tuesday/0000018c-1405-dd2e-a5ae-d74f01bf0000?liveBlogItemId=584012315#584012315 this is sickening

[stark stream]

Okay yes then that:https://youtu.be/PrZMFJwlq0k?t=54581s | 2023-11-28 | ~15:06:22 UTC+2 | Reuters is approximately when the results of IED occurred. They then mount a recovery: https://youtu.be/PrZMFJwlq0k?t=55013s | 2023-11-28 | ~15:13:34 UTC+2 | Reuters

[valid sapphire]

So it could be that all hostages had to watch it?

[real lodge]

If that is the case that is awful. Subjecting any child to that is horrifying. Especially given what they were forced to witness first hand on 10/7.

tbc not your comment/question that is awful.