mystic rose
Post all updates on the situation in Karabakh starting on September 19, 2023.
As this is a developing situation, special post rules are in effect.
Please always share links to everything that you're posting
Being first doesn't count. Being right does.
Absolutely no memes or dereails.
toxic holly
Reposting what I had in the older thread:
Azerbaijani press release. Like in their previous offensives, they accuse Armenia of shelling their troops. The wording (among other listed goals their operation is to "disarm and secure the withdrawal of Armenian forces", "eliminate military infrastructure", "restore constitutional order") seems to indicate they intend to take over the region
And Liveuamap is active
rugged root
Lots of drone footage of strikes on Turkish and Azeri TV channels, very similar to the 2020 war
slate ocean
https://x.com/canbackrasmus/status/1704084159172387195?s=61&t=7El9Jh9N_nxcMz_72gPBUA
"According to OC Media, residents of Nagorno-Karabakh receive text messages to head towards the Latjin Corridor.
This is the worst case scenario I investigated during my trip last week, that is Azerbaijan shelling civilians and telling them "the way out is on foot"."
Twitter
toxic holly
Armenian MoD repeats its claim from 2020 that it doesn't have troops in N-K. This is most definitely false as the N-K organic militia doesn't have anything like the equipment we are seeing Azeris target in the region, but like in 2020 the statement is diplomatically important for Armenia to make in order to limit the conflict to N-K & avoid escalation into its internationally recognized territory. This doesn't mean Armenia is abandoning the region or its inhabitants.
mystic rose
Post rules here for anyone who's just joining: #1153646648476565574 message
slate ocean
For context, Nagorno-Karabakh was under a blockade for 9 months and a total blockade (including humanitarian cargo) for 3 months.
rancid rock
Persian report (Mashregh News); includes three footages claimed to be regarding the Stepanakert operation
https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/1528090/آغاز-عملیات-نظامی-جمهوری-آذربایجان-در-قره-باغ-فیلم
mystic rose
Neil Hauer thread here: https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1704097300644036825
slate ocean
OC Media live updates link https://oc-media.org/live-updates-stepanakert-under-fire-as-war-breaks-out-in-nagorno-karabakh/
tall estuary
rancid rock
AZ army claims to have destroyed Armenian equipment: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7V5Beq2k01w
slate ocean
rancid rock
One of the footages shared by Tasnim shows missile launches. There is no caption on the footage.
https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1402/06/28/2958440/عملیات-نظامی-آذربایجان-در-قره-باغ-روسیه-مداخله-نمی-کنیم-ایروان-نیروی-نظامی-در-قره-باغ-نداریم-در-حال-تکمیل/
dark edge
fierce knoll
Russia seems to not want to get involved....
rugged root
Loudspeaker trucks driving around Yerevan (edited)
will record if I hear it on the stream again
slate ocean
https://twitter.com/prokaliptika1/status/1704104151985066381?t=nOGpnKJYnhB7qUjZiy7shA&s=19
No confirmation on whether or not this footage was taken today .
mystic rose
https://twitter.com/prokaliptika1/status/1704104151985066381?t=nOGpnKJYnhB7qUjZi...
If you take a screenshot of the first frame and do a reverse image search, that'd usually tell you if its new or not
slate ocean
If you take a screenshot of the first frame and do a reverse image search, that'...
Thank you - I had no idea. 🙈🤦
mystic rose
np! i you find something please let us know
slate ocean
Did reverse image search - it seems new.
silk nest
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/9/19/nagorno-karabakh-live-azerbaijan-launches-new-anti-terror-operation
Bit of context for the whole "Azerbaijan claims the entire RA army is in NK" thing, Azerbaijan has now apparently clarified they want ethnic Armenians gone (ie the ADF)
tall estuary
The authorities of Nagorno-Karabakh announced the first civilian deaths
According to Ombudsman Gegham Stepanyan of the unrecognized republic, there are two dead among the civilian population, one of whom is a child.
Another 11 people were injured, eight of them children, he added.
https://news.am/rus/news/781688.html
merry kiln
Did reverse image search - it seems new.
This seems somewhat similar:
https://spoooort.ru/32335/Azerbaiydzhan-otpravil-na-granicu-s-Armenieiy-novuyu-partiyu-voennoiy-tehniki/
slate ocean
Loudspeaker trucks driving around Yerevan (edited)
This is a common political rallying cry that has been present throughout the past weeks and months. Not a call for mobilization.
slate ocean
This seems somewhat similar:
https://spoooort.ru/32335/Azerbaiydzhan-otpravil-na...
Not sure how my image search didn't even see that! I probably did something wrong. I apologize
dark edge
rugged root
Oh did it go by again? Or did ya happen to find the call? Appreciate the correctio neither way!
slate ocean
Armenian PM-linked journal has published the allegation that the Russian side has leaked to Azerbaijan NK forces coordinates and positions.
mystic rose
Some hastags here to follow on TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@herbiden_1_az/video/7280502624053464325?lang=en
dark edge
Demonstrations in Yerewan, more footage on the same accoun
https://twitter.com/MeanwhileinCN/status/1704112168340230475?t=uMJ6jgMCNdidncgCrlHFig&s=19
merry kiln
Not sure how my image search didn't even see that! I probably did something wron...
Google and TinEye found nothing, but Yandex showed several similar images. In my experience, Yandex is often better in reverse searching images that are not exactly identical.
fierce knoll
Russian official propaganda blaming Armenia for being friendly with the US. https://www.google.com/amp/s/vm.ru/world/1080435-armeniya-gotovitsya-k-vojne/amp
limber basalt
slate ocean
toxic holly
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/9/19/nagorno-karabakh-live-azerbaij...
Not their words, Al Jazeera's words. As far as I can tell it's just a report/contextualization of their original press release linked above. Of course the implication is practically the same whichever wording you used, it's just diplomacy speak on Azerbaijan's behalf
nimble hazel
Russian official propaganda blaming Armenia for being friendly with the US. htt...
Yes, Simonian and Z-gnida channels are blaming Pashinyan and don't really condemn Azerbaijan, treating it as a kind of force of nature, from what I see online
slate ocean
The subtext of Pashinyan's speech is that Russia is trying to drag Armenia into war with Azerbaijan.
The pro-Russian opposition is protesting outside the government building. And Armtimes.com is publishing what can't be said directly. Armenian journalist, the current PM, Nikol Pashinyan was the long-serving editor-in-chief of Haykakan Zhamanak (Armtimes) from 1999 until 2008.
fierce knoll
The pro-Russian opposition is protesting outside the government building. And Ar...
I was shocked how many ppl in Armenia still supported Russia last year, when I was there, even after everything that happened.
silk nest
Not their words, Al Jazeera's words. As far as I can tell it's just a report/con...
Agreed on the diplomacy stuff. Still useful to make the distinction since so much of the info and disinfo swirling around now essentially depicts the RA and ADF as the same thing or that Armenia smuggled their entire military into NK in the last year
slate ocean
I was shocked how many ppl in Armenia still supported Russia last year, when I w...
Yes to some extent, if elections are a proxy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Armenia) pro Russian support is in minority. The current government can be hardly qualified as supporting Russia.
toxic holly
Agreed on the diplomacy stuff. Still useful to make the distinction since so muc...
Armenia has plenty of troops there unofficially (for well justified humanitarian reasons), though. The local militias absolutely do not possess the kinds of air defense systems etc. we have seen Azeris blow up today, for example.
rugged root
Armenia has plenty of troops there unofficially (for well justified humanitarian...
important to bear in mind the Azeri statement announced strikes beyond the line of contact and into the rear of Armenian lines. No idea of those Tor strikes have been geolocated yet but until they are they could potentially be Armenian army rather than NK. Spitballing here, if somebody knows more please chime in!
zealous swan
Glad to have you hanging out today Aram 
dark edge
MFA statement on Azerbaijan's aggression in Nagorno-Karabakh
19 September, 2023
https://www.mfa.am/en/interviews-articles-and-comments/2023/09/19/MFA_Statement/12203
white blaze
Has this been geolocated yet? https://t.me/Azerbaijan_MOD/18356
AZ attacked an AM radar station, apparently Russian peacekeepers may have been there.
silk nest
dark edge
Deleted my last post.
Footage of another hit of EW station
https://twitter.com/MeanwhileinCN/status/1704076161381179629?t=XBOIWn7KvsvR-3MKY9a3eg&s=19
toxic holly
The humanitarian side will likely be extremely difficult. As far as I've understood the blockade has left Stepanakert's hospitals with very little supplies
silk nest
Azerbaijan has also reopened the Lachin Corridor and is encouraging ethnic Armenians to use it to flee to Armenia, which will further complicate the humanitarian side
toxic holly
Based on Google Maps, the corridor seems to have very low capacity for masses of people even if opened. Curvy mountain roads
silk nest
And the Armenian side is plugged with aid trucks
slate ocean
"France condemns in the strongest terms the launch by Azerbaijan of a military operation in Nagorno-Karabakh with the use of heavy weapons, including against inhabited areas. ... France requests the emergency convening of a meeting of the United Nations Security Council. It is working closely with its European and American partners so that a strong response is provided to this unacceptable offensive, commensurate with the risks it poses to the security of the region."
nimble hazel
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/dossiers-pays/armenie/evenements/article/opera...
"Strong response" yes
slate ocean
rugged root
dark edge
slate ocean
clever bay
clever bay
slate ocean
https://twitter.com/LikaZakaryan/status/1704132742156538234?t=kv42dVeRVjxFug30Y_O5OA&s=19
A sight from a local. At the same time Russia calls on both parties to come sit at the negotiating table
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1704130903910601212?t=An1K6XvI4KXBPVow1hwMqQ&s=19
silk nest
Twitter
slate ocean
https://twitter.com/301arm/status/1704137848637579359?t=YxUr8D2s4hO9fSWmYwddDg&s=19
Report that the situation in Armenia at the government building is getting more tense.
clever bay
echo zinc
(Let me know if I'm reposting and I'll delete, I'm not catching much up with this today 😅 )
slate ocean
I’d highly suggest people checking NASA FIRMS and Zoom.earth too.
clever bay
rugged root
Livestream from Yerevan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M82g0xruVB8
slate ocean
slate ocean
https://twitter.com/mfankr/status/1704157266142773543?t=hfatInw0zmO8TJKdxmnKbw&s=19
Reports from inside karabakh vary - fighting may have gone down in the Twitter of the defence of artsagh - yet the mfa reports differently
Twitter
clever bay
https://x.com/NeilPHauer/status/1704156315990261919?s=20
Ya that one is up here too, #1153646648476565574 message
clever bay
Surrender and get executed?
Right?!?!
Probably tortured as well if they surrender.
As far as people / orgs in Nagorno-Karabakh right now, here’s a list.
https://x.com/aghavalyan/status/1704165971135492155
Twitter
pulsar spoke
Twitter
clever bay
clever bay
Casualty reporting from the Ombudsman of Nagorno-Karabakh
According to the information received from the medical institutions of Artsakh, as of 21:00, there are 138 injured people, among whom 29 are civilians: Stepanakert medical center - 112 injured peopl, the children’s hospital of Stepanakert - 11, Martakert’s regional hospital - 15.
It is impossible to establish connection with the medical institutions of Askeran and Martuni at the moment.
https://x.com/artsakhombuds/status/1704178700676161895
slate ocean
https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1704178573286817908?t=1YTUXsMat4-nT5SFmbaq_w&s=19
Situation getting more grim at in Yerevan.
Twitter
clever bay
So what’s the point of them again lol.
https://x.com/gabrielcsgavin/status/1704179970665234914
slate ocean
Twitter
https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1704178573286817908?t=1YTUXsMat4-nT5SFmbaq_w&s=19
Statement from a azeri news agency;
"The Administration of the President of the Republic of Azerbaijan states that our country is ready to meet with the representatives of the Armenian residents living in the Karabakh region in Yevlakh. However, in order to stop the anti-terrorist measures, the illegal Armenian armed groups must raise a white flag, hand over all weapons, and the illegal regime must release itself.
Otherwise, anti-terrorist measures will be continued until the end," the administration said."
Twitter
Oops wrong link, sorry!
https://report.az/xarici-siyaset/hikmet-haciyev-ordumuz-qarabagda-qanunsuz-quvvelerin-mudafie-xettini-yarib/ they also state that they took several strategic positions in Karabakh and is determined to take its "strategic goals".
I wonder what type of "strong response" from the internatiol community we will see.
International*
clever bay
https://report.az/xarici-siyaset/hikmet-haciyev-ordumuz-qarabagda-qanunsuz-quvve...
Ya I’m curious too. Supposedly France is working on a “strong international response.” I have yet to see anything from the US State Department. The EU did their classic “we call on both sides to stop hostilities” (they didn’t ask Ukraine to stop hostilities when Russia attacked them).
slate ocean
Seen the official statement come by on Twitter. (sigh) but have yet to see any type of action. Just seen a tweet that stated something along the lines of "EU might consider sanctions on Azerbaijan" , but that's about it.
slate ocean
Ya I’m curious too. Supposedly France is working on a “strong international resp...
On a side note - I think i've just seen your profilepic on Twitter replying to someone about the evacuation of civilians out of 6 towns. 🙈
clever bay
On a side note - I think i've just seen your profilepic on Twitter replying to s...
Ya that was me 🙂
He’s the ombudsman of Nagorno-Karabakh.
slate ocean
I started following him as well.. 🙂
spare pivot
https://twitter.com/301arm/status/1704137848637579359?t=YxUr8D2s4hO9fSWmYwddDg&s...
This has escalated: https://twitter.com/301arm/status/1704179606251577676?s=46&t=QzgcGom3zfs8mzRuqxetjg
pulsar spoke
Ya I’m curious too. Supposedly France is working on a “strong international resp...
I think if Azerbaijan had attacked the internationally recognized territory of Armenia, the response would have been similar to that of Russian aggression. With all the caveats in mind, the situation is different
clever bay
Yes, for now we play the waiting game. For the wheels of diplomacy turn slower than a mill grinding grains into flour.
fierce knoll
I think if Azerbaijan had attacked the internationally recognized territory of A...
They did just that a year ago. Response: nil.
slate ocean
clever bay
Well at least the US directly named Azerbaijan as the aggressor instead of “both sides” like the EU.
fierce knoll
Well at least the US directly named Azerbaijan as the aggressor instead of “both...
The US does not rely on their oil and gas
slate ocean
this statement names Azerbaijan
the statement from council is weak however https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/council-europe/eu-statement-nagorno-karabakh_en?s=51
clever bay
The US does not rely on their oil and gas
Only 5% of EU oil/gas comes from AZ
They had no problem condemning Russia when they relied on Russian gas and oil
fierce knoll
I may misremember but I think the US and the UK were also much more forceful on condemning Putin initially.
Than France and Germany
slate ocean
for context https://www.aei.org/op-eds/tolerating-azerbaijan-gas-shows-europe-still-isnt-serious-about-russia/
So - why is the international response so dim? I am not very well informed about the conflict that i know has been raging for a very long time already - but this actually makes me sick. Imo - if we go with the UN' PoC then how can we not open our eyes to what is happening to the civilians in karabakh?
frigid depot
No statement from DOS/WH? I see none.
slate ocean
So - why is the international response so dim? I am not very well informed about...
It's very disheartening, I found this article a good refresher that goes into some of the questions of normative international responsibility https://evnreport.com/politics/why-international-actors-are-responsible-for-armenians-in-nagorno-karabakh/
slate ocean
No statement from DOS/WH? I see none.
Blinken condemned Azerbaijani aggression. Few messages up.
slate ocean
Than France and Germany
Germany was as expected. Merkel s policy towards Moscow has never been different. Macron - i didnt see him as a very strong leader but i have come around on him a little. But you are right. The usa has been a lot more upfront about Russia than they are now about Azerbaijan.
slate ocean
It's very disheartening, I found this article a good refresher that goes into so...
Thank you - reading now.
pulsar spoke
Tom de Waal's Black Garden is a good read on the subject
slate ocean
The more recent Armenia and Azerbaijan: Anatomy of a Rivalry from Laurence Broers is probably a better book, but both can be read in dialogue.
clever bay
No statement from DOS/WH? I see none.
Blinken announced one not too long ago.
clever bay
Erdogan's statement in turkish, translated via Twitter.
Karabakh is Azerbaijani territory.
Imposition of a status other than this will never be accepted.
We supported the negotiation process between Azerbaijan and Armenia from the very beginning. However, we see that Armenia has not been able to adequately utilize this historical opportunity.
We expect Armenia to fulfill its promises, especially the opening of the Zangezur Corridor.
Our primary goal should be for everyone, including Armenians, to live peacefully side by side on Azerbaijani lands.
We support the steps taken by Azerbaijan, where we act with the motto "One nation, two states", to protect its territorial integrity.
https://x.com/RTErdogan/status/1704185051603210458?s=20
slate ocean
stronger statement by Secretary General of the Council of Europe Marija Pejčinović Burić
clever bay
I'm seeing people say there's a UNSC meeting scheduled for 9/21 but dont have confirmation yet. Anyone else have one?
snow raft
So - why is the international response so dim? I am not very well informed about...
one simple explanation is that Nagorno-Karabakh is just much smaller. The population of the whole region is 3 times less than just the city of Mariupol. Stepanakert is 50% smaller than Bakhmut. Kharkiv counteroffensive deoccupied 3 times the area of Nagorno-Karabakh.
toxic holly
So - why is the international response so dim? I am not very well informed about...
Ultimately the main reason is because (due to messy history dating back to the first world war, the Armenian genocide, the Russian civil war, and Stalin's nation policies) Nagorno-Karabakh is within the borders that practically all countries have recognized as Azerbaijan's territory. So Westphalian sovereignty is at play and you don't have an open and shut case for an UNSC intervention
snow raft
(I am not arguing that the response should be like that. But that's a simple explanation why it seems like people care less. It's a "smaller" war and it feels smaller for everyone not directly involved)
fierce knoll
If you look at Africa, eg Ethiopia, Eritrea or Sudan, far worse atrocities pass unnoticed
junior reef
Hi folks,
Sorry for off-topic, but if you know some charities or funds that provide humanitarian aid or help to evacuate people from Artsakh to safety - please share (preferably local ones so donations will reach them faster)
vivid topaz
If you look at Africa, eg Ethiopia, Eritrea or Sudan, far worse atrocities pass...
Hi, we always welcome people highlighting this. You could join in in one of the existing forum discussions, or start a new subject if you find something is not represented:
https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1134077971888607322
https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1099724243706589245
https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1087841116403011685
https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1054884622955184228
https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1115396100887679036
clever bay
Hi folks,
Sorry for off-topic, but if you know some charities or funds that pro...
I will ask some friends if they know of any.
junior reef
thanks
clever bay
clever bay
pulsar spoke
snow raft
Are there geolocated instances of Azerbaijan striking Armenia proper, not NK? They've done this before, is it happening again?
pulsar spoke
Are there geolocated instances of Azerbaijan striking Armenia proper, not NK? Th...
None yet, from what I observed and I don't think there is going to be. (At least at this stage)
clever bay
Are there geolocated instances of Azerbaijan striking Armenia proper, not NK? Th...
I haven’t heard or seen anything about AZ hitting AM proper.
Twitter
fierce knoll
Are there geolocated instances of Azerbaijan striking Armenia proper, not NK? Th...
Plenty from a year ago. But none now afaik
clever bay
Mayor of Martuni (Artsakh) Aznavour Saryan was killed as a result of shelling by Azerbaijani terrorist groups.
https://t.me/military_arm/19422
fierce knoll
clever bay
... so Russia was given advance notice then... 😒
Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova
"Information is being circulated in the media that the Azerbaijani side allegedly warned the Russian peacekeepers 'in advance' of today's 'anti-terrorist operation' in Nagorno-Karabakh. This does not correspond to reality. The information was communicated to the Russian contingent a few minutes before the outbreak of hostilities,"
https://www.barrons.com/news/russia-says-was-given-minutes-notice-of-azerbaijan-s-karabakh-operation-26ace6ca
slate ocean
https://twitter.com/Karabakh_MoD/status/1704341735600480527?t=ijx1UKkptwacZvg-78nF5w&s=19
... fighting continues
prisma ginkgo
The more recent Armenia and Azerbaijan: Anatomy of a Rivalry from Laurence Broer...
Second this.
De Waal is full of half truths and perceived events.
Also, he completely disqualified himself as an expert in the last few years. Just hours ago he wrote that "no one could see that this [attack] was coming", while everyone else knew that this would happen for weeks if not months...
clear drum
It's very disheartening, I found this article a good refresher that goes into so...
Excellent article. Thanks.
clever bay
slate ocean
Hi folks,
Sorry for off-topic, but if you know some charities or funds that pro...
https://kooyrigs.org/
https://www.armenianfoodbank.org/
https://www.voma.center/en
https://allforarmenia.org/
clever bay
toxic holly
In the military dimension, Azerbaijan has all the advantage here and absent Iranian intervention I can't really see them failing. This really goes to show that hastily thought out ceasefires can sow the seeds of further war
clever bay
In the military dimension, Azerbaijan has all the advantage here and absent Iran...
Iran gave their statement as well. Not too far off from those made in the west
Iranian MFA statement:
“The Islamic Republic of Iran considers Karabakh as part of the Republic of Azerbaijan and believes that its issues, including the rights and security of its residents, should be resolved in this framework and through dialogue,”
https://en.irna.ir/news/85233262/Iran-calls-on-Azerbaijan-Armenia-to-resolve-dispute-through
Sounds like that didn’t go so well for Blinken.
https://x.com/a_melikishvili/status/1704386647272333718
Almost like 9 months of “grave concerns” and “we urge both sides” weren’t an effective deterrent. Nor was “we won’t tolerate any military action in Nagorno-Karabakh” for that matter.
rancid rock
Iranian MFA statement:
> “The Islamic Republic of Iran considers Karabakh as par...
Must be a measure to vainly appease the Azeris south of the Republic, yet Iran and the Republic have strained relations.
Pro-Armenia Turkish paper Agos: 25 people have been killed in the renewed conflict yesterday
https://www.agos.com.tr/tr/yazi/29141/karabag-da-25-can-kaybi-var (Turkish)
toxic holly
Must be a measure to vainly appease the Azeris south of the Republic, yet Iran a...
As far as I've understood the Iranian Azeris aren't that ethnonationalist. For example Ali Khamenei is one
rancid rock
Yes Azeri unification isn’t very popular in northwest Iran/ The South, but the authorities still see threat in the movement
clever bay
Twitter
clever bay
pulsar spoke
Yes Azeri unification isn’t very popular in northwest Iran/ The South, but the a...
Unification is indeed not that popular, but the population has been heavily in favor of Azerbaijan (Which was highlighted by the 2020 war). And any aggressive measures towards Azerbaijan will spike heavy protests in that area.
rancid rock
Unification is indeed not that popular, but the population has been heavily in f...
Which also erupted in 2020 during the war
clever bay
clever bay
This whole thread by Broers is worth a read imo. https://x.com/laurencebroers/status/1704405873534157229
Thread starts here -> https://x.com/laurencebroers/status/1704405859961356554
rugged wadi
Twitter
clever bay
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1704400937018605569?s=46&t=SRRtkThpiVIz1bn...
Maybe they’ll kick the 3k Russian troops out of gyumri, leave csto and tear up their bilateral defense pact (both worthless anyway!).
prisma ginkgo
guess what, genocidal regimes can't be trusted https://x.com/301arm/status/1704406643537059868?s=20
Twitter
rancid rock
Protests in Yerevan yesterday: https://www.facebook.com/reel/698112838889403
slate ocean
My best guess is that as long as no actual international response comes, Azerbaijan will continue its hostilities. It kind of resembles Russia taking Crimea in this way; international response was lacking then. And international response has been lacking for a great deal of time since the renewed hostilities began. I believe Baku in some sort of way is "testing waters" and their objective to "riddance the country of the cancerous tumor" (as said by an azerbaijani lady live on tv) won't stop until actual measures are being taken by the international community. Russia is in no way able to play the role of peace keeping since they have their hands full in Ukraine.
I remember a certain point of view in "the next 100 years" by George Friedman that instability in some countries helpes others enhancing their power. Russia now facing a threat of war on two sides maybe helpes to a certain point the West, in this way that it causes instability in the region, hence explaining the lack of actual sanctions/actions?
Not saying that I completely agree with George Friedman at all by the way - but I think it is an interesting train of thought to explore. (explorating without actually accepting the idea that is. )
queen matrix
i don't have any news to add, but damn this looks grim 😔
fierce knoll
Maybe they’ll kick the 3k Russian troops out of gyumri, leave csto and tear up t...
That requires someone - possibly the US - to replace them. Is the region important enough for them?
Pashinyan can do a lot more unpleasant things to Russia - eg nationalise Armenian infrastructure and factories currently in the hands of Russian companies, which if I'm not wrong they got their hands on under his predecessor.
But he needs a major world power to defend Armenia proper.
toxic holly
Due to the recognized borders, intervention now would likely come with the same benefits and drawbacks as the Kosovo one, except the ones complaining would be Azerbaijan and Turkey instead of Serbia and Russia
and it would directly impact fewer (1/8 or so) people, I think
prisma ginkgo
It's purely political, from a rights perspective azerbaijan always violated the right of these people's and therefore self determination was justified
clever bay
That requires someone - possibly the US - to replace them. Is the region importa...
I don’t see the US basing troops there. I don’t know who else would tbh. Unless it was a UN peacekeeping force or something. But Russia would just veto that resolution before it would be implemented anyway.
Agreed that Armenia could do better things a la nationalizing economic sectors.
Yes the prior pro-russian stooge regimes were corrupt af and sold a lot of stuff off to Russians.
toxic holly
I don’t see the US basing troops there. I don’t know who else would tbh. Unless ...
If against Azeri consent, it would cause a huge crisis with the Turkish relations. If with Azeri consent, well, they would never consent to anything sufficient to actually ensure peace (as seen with how weak the 2020 ceasefire proved to be)
spare pivot
Footage of people trying to leave: https://twitter.com/likazakaryan/status/1704410269668008441?s=46&t=QzgcGom3zfs8mzRuqxetjg
prisma ginkgo
Don't forget that azerbaijan is so unhinged they even targeted EU observers and azerbaijans ambassador to the EU threatened to kill them
clever bay
Don't forget that azerbaijan is so unhinged they even targeted EU observers and ...
Yeah I do recall those incidents. Quite ludicrous. The EU monitoring mission even tried to say their observers weren’t being shot at… until a video of them hunkering down in AM IDP came up and the monitors themselves said they were shot at.
prisma ginkgo
Twitter
slate ocean
It's purely political, from a rights perspective azerbaijan always violated the ...
I have some concerns in saying it is 'only' political, as i certainly dont believe that decisions are being made solely on that one single factor. I believe that things such as history, sociallogical timing, economic factors etc are all part it. Because - surely you cant explain the "why now" being solely political? Maybe I misunderstood what you actually meant though. 🙂
clever bay
https://x.com/TheScarmind/status/1704417623608324459?s=20
I guess we’ll stay tuned for what that means.
fierce knoll
If against Azeri consent, it would cause a huge crisis with the Turkish relation...
Given how Turkey has acted over Sweden joining NATO, I am not sure crises within NATO are anything new. The Turks would complain but do nothing.
It's all about whether the US thinks it's in their interests regardless of Ankara's opinions
merry kiln
I think any intervention (well, maybe except for Iran I guess?) is pretty much ruled out. Azerbaijan often commits crimes during their operations, but it's within their internationally recognized borders (even Armenia explicitly recognized Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan according to the EU statement from March this year) and I don't really see anyone willing to intervene militarily in this situation. Especially considering the war in Ukraine... We might see some humanitarian intervention though, like an evacuation agreement or something like that.
nimble hazel
According to local RL/RFE, local nurse says they can't evacuate people because AZ shells Russian peacekeeper cars for evacuation
https://rus.azatutyun.am/a/32600663.html
clever bay
merry kiln
Twitter
fierce knoll
I guess the Russians are expecting to stay on as peacekeepers and keep a foothold in the region that way
Not sure how well that'll work out for them
prisma ginkgo
Seriously doubt that they will stop their attacks
clever bay
prisma ginkgo
I have some concerns in saying it is 'only' political, as i certainly dont belie...
I mean that the reasons for non recognition are political. It checks all the boxes for self determination, remedial secession or whatever principle one would like to apply.
The most recent attack is yet another sign that az is not just disregarding their obligations towards these people but actively violating it
toxic holly
https://x.com/thomasvlinge/status/1704419787927883933
If this passes, I think this episode can be characterized as Azerbaijan winning the 100 year N-K conflict with finality. Specifically mopping up the last resistance after forcing Armenia to stay its hand in the 2020 ceasefire.
Or maybe not the 100 year conflict (can always flare up again depending on what sort of resistance keeps existing or whether Azerbaijan manages to create a semblance of coexistence), but at least the 30 year one during their independences.
mystic rose
Footage of people trying to leave: https://twitter.com/likazakaryan/status/17044...
Does anyone have the coordinastes for where this camp is?
prisma ginkgo
Russian base at the airport
clever bay
Does anyone have the coordinastes for where this camp is?
It’s the Russian base in khojaly
https://x.com/cavidaga/status/1704407662555771072
prisma ginkgo
39°54'03.5"N 46°47'40.2"E
mystic rose
39°54'03.5"N 46°47'40.2"E
ty
clever bay
toxic holly
I think the most likely immediate consequence is that instead of threatening taking over Nagarno-Karabakh (which it now did) Azerbaijan will use the rights of the inhabitants as hostages on the Zangezur negotiation.
prisma ginkgo
there will be no rights
NK was the most progressive and democratic de facto state and azerbaijan is one of the worlds worst regimes
this is just talk for the next stage
toxic holly
I think the most likely immediate consequence is that instead of threatening tak...
Well, it also already did use them as hostages during the blockade
I think any final ethnic cleansing will probably be preceded by a period when they use this status to coerce the corridor out of Armenia. Wouldn't make sense to give up that leverage
prisma ginkgo
Seriously doubt that they will stop their attacks
toxic holly
so predictable https://twitter.com/simonforco/status/1704425922655629627
https:/...
Russia did this same thing in Georgia back in 2008, and also in Donetsk in 2014/2015 after the Minsk agreements. They do this for the "oh, it seems some of our guys forgot to check their watches ;)" type winner's taunting
clever bay
Russia did this same thing in Georgia back in 2008, and also in Donetsk in 2014/...
Oh there won’t be any consequences of any sort for them.
slate ocean
Twitter
slate ocean
I think the most likely immediate consequence is that instead of threatening tak...
aligns with Russian interest as well
clever bay
https://twitter.com/Olesya_vArt/status/1704421070755762661?t=ruDKGuSVj3-0jgbch_l...
I did notice that and think it was a curious omission given their prior states goals.
pulsar spoke
The main issue is armed forces there in my opinion. The government of NK can be replaced( or dissolved and so on) afterwards when needed. (That was the goal of the war in 2020 in the first place). Especially if Baku is planning to resettle the Azerbaijani population to those areas that have been displaced in the 90s. (Not sure if all of them would want that though)
But of course the danger for the local Armenian population is real
toxic holly
The Azerbaijani population that has been displaced was mostly from the valleys to the North that were already captured in 2020, no?
pulsar spoke
The Azerbaijani population that has been displaced was mostly from the valleys t...
Mostly yes, but there is a certain amount that has been living in those areas as well. Not sure about the percentages though...
It's impossible to have a mono ethnic population in such areas, there used to be mixed ethnic families between Azerbaijanis and Armenians. So the mixing is natural
toxic holly
The Azerbaijani population that has been displaced was mostly from the valleys t...
I learned this from a suspiciously well edited cooking video that I saw on YouTube a while ago (it was completely silent and focused on the outdoors cooking and landscapes/atmosphere, except for one part where the CCs said that there were 60,000 Azeris expelled from that valley and "now it is in good hands again")
fierce knoll
There's actually a Guardian Live about NK. Previously the British media ignored the whole thing mostly
fierce knoll
The Azerbaijani population that has been displaced was mostly from the valleys t...
Khojaly.
hallow trellis
There's actually a Guardian Live about NK. Previously the British media ignored ...
This one also worth keeping an eye on: https://oc-media.org/live-updates-azerbaijani-assault-on-nagorno-karabakh-enters-second-day/
clever bay
Oh right! I completely forgot about that tragedy...
Understandable, there’s so many in this conflict alone 😦
clever bay
This one also worth keeping an eye on: https://oc-media.org/live-updates-azerbai...
Agreed. I’d trust/follow OC or JAM over Guardian for live coverage here.
Twitter
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silk nest
Seems odd they're demanding the ADF go to Armenia
Unless they're just maintaining the "the entire Armenian military was secretly deployed to NK" line for propaganda's sake
rancid rock
Azerbaijan confirms suspension of military operations in NK (RTVE)
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20230920/azerbaiyan-confirma-suspension-su-operacion-militar-nagorno-karabaj/2456409.shtml (Spanish)
clever bay
Unless they're just maintaining the "the entire Armenian military was secretly d...
Yeah, Azerbaijan believes the Armenian army is there. Even though in reality they left in 2021 following the 2020 ceasefire agreement.
silk nest
I mean, I'm sure they don't actually believe it, at least the government
but it makes for a better story than beating the small force of a literally starving area
rancid rock
Live protests in Yerevan State Medical University
https://youtube.com/watch?v=blMJ7wgvcm4
echo zinc
Azerbaijan confirms suspension of military operations in NK (RTVE)
https://www.r...
It's replicsting the statement of the Azeri MoD which was mentioned above with the announcement of the ceasefire. It doesn't mention the attacks that have been happening since.
I'd be very surprised if the Spanish public TV would have exclusive info form the Azeri gov 😅
slate ocean
Twitter
rancid rock
Live: protests near Government building, Yerevan in condemnation of events in NK
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HJ_H-jxdnRk
slate ocean
Twitter
slate ocean
toxic holly
For a very low effort "obvious" geolocation: this indeed appears to be Stepanakert's airport (building shape and roof color matches very well with the terminal, flagpoles in the right locations)
rancid rock
prisma ginkgo
a reminder that ICRC can work more freely in sudan or afghanistan than in azerbaijan, where they are de facto banned except for some media operations
spare pivot
"Meduza got access to a Russian state document, instructing the local media to "blame Armenia and its Western partners" for Azerbaijan’s attack on Nagorno-Karabakh." https://twitter.com/AvetissianAn/status/1704502029593215390?s=20
Twitter
rancid rock
I’m wondering if Russia and Iran have talked about NK as Shoygu is currently in Tehran.
toxic holly
For what it's worth, Iran has previously set its red line to having an unobstructed land border to Armenia
slate ocean
white blaze
Russian peacekeepers fired upon (reportedly killed, per other sources) in an area recently taken by Azeris https://twitter.com/aghavalyan/status/1704523077864878157
Twitter
Ru MoD just saying that they were fired upon by small arms, no casualty numbers yet. I've seen 2 killed in some very unverified reports.
frozen nova
Three TikToks in need of verification / geolocation:
One of someone spraypainting the symbol of the current military operation on a building: https://www.tiktok.com/@mrby_411/video/7280656044798364936?q=xankendi&t=1695214657883
Another that claims to show artillery fire towards Agdere: https://www.tiktok.com/@mmexwi/video/7264568864288066834?q=agdere&t=1695217051856
And a third here, said to be taken around Stepanakert. https://www.tiktok.com/@reis_.100/video/7280848356916727042?q=xankendi&t=1695224794530
clever bay
"Meduza got access to a Russian state document, instructing the local media to "...
Exerpts below
The text of the manual says:
Most likely, the Armenian Prime Minister was pushed to make this statement by his Western “partners”, who should fully share responsibility for the consequences with him. The decision of the Armenian leadership, which itself radically changed the status of Karabakh, became a signal for Azerbaijan to act; now Baku perceives the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh as its own.
The Kremlin recommends describing the status of Russian peacekeepers as “observant,” while pro-government media workers should be told about the peacekeepers’ assistance in “evacuating civilians.” Separately, the compilers of the manual advise mentioning that people find “shelter” in an Orthodox church located on the base of the Russian peacekeeping contingent.
mystic rose
Three TikToks in need of verification / geolocation:
One of someone spraypaintin...
Sean is an editor at Bellingcat btw, I haven't given him hte role yet, will do so now
fierce knoll
clever bay
Aliyev is doing a live speech. Covid Aga is live tweeting translations.
https://x.com/cavidaga/status/1704533640795820439
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I doubt that very much lol but w/e
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Context there: NK’s more pro-west president was forced to resign in august, replaced by a more pro-Russian president under martial law by the parliament. The opposition candidate (pro-west) was deemed ineligible because he didn’t reside in NK for 10 straight years (he lived in Armenia for a time of that)
Twitter
Twitter
fickle summit
There are several detentions of activists in Azerbaijan because of their anti-war posts. Following post is about latest detention of two activists (sentenced to 30 days) . Independent Azerbaijani journalists reporting detentions of activists since yesterday. One of the activists told the media that there are more people detained for anti-war positions, but because they are not activists it has not been reported on media: https://x.com/ulviyyaali/status/1704512919575089414?s=46&t=6moFV6-XVqfceKXQGrdNwg
https://www.facebook.com/AbzasMedia/videos/1115705803150231/
clever bay
On that note Sarah,
https://x.com/canbackrasmus/status/1704509294022967706
Twitter
Linked article by Rasmus’ https://blankspot.se/the-persecution-of-azerbaijani-oppositionists-is-escalating/
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fickle summit
Also this happened few days before : https://x.com/arzugeybulla/status/1703335068121366658?s=46&t=6moFV6-XVqfceKXQGrdNwg
Twitter
clever bay
Meydan is an Azeri opposition outlet too
fickle summit
The hacked outlet is not Meydan
It is Mikroskop Media (has been hacked it’s website)
clever bay
Twitter
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Yeah ok no they don’t at all. But w/e
Ie the border clashes in 2021 and 2022 where AZ took RA territory.
Twitter
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fickle summit
fierce knoll
prisma ginkgo
Twitter
it really seems to be a yugoslavia situation
https://twitter.com/ianaavanesian/status/1704538903720378653
clever bay
it really seems to be a yugoslavia situation
https://twitter.com/ianaavanesian/...
Well at least in Yugoslavia there was an international intervention. I don’t think the artsakhcis are so lucky.
I don’t even know what to make of Borrell’s response.
Underwhelming doesn’t do it justice
prisma ginkgo
clever bay
Twitter
clever bay
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prisma ginkgo
clever bay
Twitter
clever bay
clever bay
clever bay
clever bay
Azerbaijani representatives have handed over to the Nagorno-Karabakh authorities a roll-call list of people to be handed over to Baku before the opening of a humanitarian corridor to Armenia.
Among them are former leaders of the unrecognized republic, as well as state and military figures, the Armenian newspaper Hraparak reported.
https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1704526013277888881?s=20
prisma ginkgo
https://twitter.com/Sukiasian_Narek/status/1704761355868176463
https://twitter.com/ianaavanesian/status/1704760242284663060
Twitter
clever bay
Artillery arc explosions were also heard in the vicinity of Stepanakert around 11:40, according to the available preliminary data at least 3 explosions were heard.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100001217227861&story_fbid=6879936782056828
mystic rose
<https://t.me/reartsakh/18899>
link pls?
clever bay
Twitter
rancid rock
Armenia MoD: On September 20, at around 10:50 p.m., Azerbaijani Armed Forces units discharged fire from small arms against the Armenian combat outposts near Sotk (Gegharkunik Province).
https://www.facebook.com/100068194255328/posts/pfbid0wF2BogR4C3BEaFyPp5aJ7DCn5zL8M5efxotFMHbamyZWXmu3zhDYKbAF6UDoLGmSl/
clever bay
Armenia MoD: On September 20, at around 10:50 p.m., Azerbaijani Armed Forces uni...
EUMM said today they stepped up patrols near Sotk after last night.
https://x.com/eumarmenia/status/1704764597830311984
mystic rose
clever bay
Twitter
prisma ginkgo
clever bay
prisma ginkgo
Twitter
mystic rose
mystic rose
https://x.com/thatcheffendi/status/1704786819269755368?s=61&t=7El9Jh9N_nxcMz_72g...
deleted?
slate ocean
mystic rose
slate ocean
the srebrenica scenario is getting more plausible by the second 😞
clever bay
posting for the pointer to a telegram channel, it’s empty right now
The Anush video haunts me. 😢
slate ocean
Twitter
mystic rose
good reminder https://x.com/maximedwards/status/1704788461721374839?s=61&t=7El9J...
Also this one from our colleague Narine
https://twitter.com/narin_kh/status/1704790187115495899?s=20
Twitter
slate ocean
clever bay
Readout from phone call between Aliyev and Putin 14 mins ago
http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/72312
prisma ginkgo
rancid rock
Smells like Kabul 2021 D:
slate ocean
Twitter
clever bay
Twitter
merry kiln
Twitter
clever bay
https://x.com/cavidaga/status/1704797243847373030?s=20
I wonder if he’s in Martakert since it’s encircled.
slate ocean
posting for the pointer to a telegram channel, it’s empty right now
the telegram id for this channel is @khacherubka_18
does anyone know of a tool that I can use to archive media from telegram channel automatically?
spare pivot
This might help? But you'll still need to copy the links: https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2022/09/22/preserve-vital-online-content-with-bellingcats-auto-archiver-tool/
vivid topaz
Telegram links are sequential, perhaps that helps? Would it work to copy the first link you want to archive and then pull down?
clever bay
Twitter
clever bay
slate ocean
Baku has handed over a draft peace agreement to Yerevan and is waiting for the reaction of the Armenian authorities, said Aliyev’s representative for special assignments, Elchin Amirbekov.
nimble hazel
Baku has handed over a draft peace agreement to Yerevan and is waiting for the r...
Is the draft public?
fierce knoll
https://x.com/cavidaga/status/1704805375415848965
It seems the other casualties were young conscripts, drafted into the Russian army as part of their compulsory service.
slate ocean
Is the draft public?
don’t see it anywhere
prisma ginkgo
Twitter
merry kiln
gusty hare
I learned this from a suspiciously well edited cooking video that I saw on YouTu...
I know this guy. Is he a rich azeri who built like a barn in the mountains and cooks like whole animals and drinks tea?
Like outdoor cooking channel or something
slate ocean
spare pivot
nimble hazel
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1704827219942515012
Reactions from Russians
cites Z-gnida channels
merry kiln
>Reactions from Russians
>cites Z-gnida channels
Well, Fighterbomber says pretty much the same thing, and this channel is somewhat realistic about the war in Ukraine, so I would guess it can probably be considered a genuine Russian reaction, at least as far as military circles are concerned.
nimble hazel
Well, Fighterbomber says pretty much the same thing, and this channel is somewha...
The same Fighterbomber that used to say that Ukraine lost all of its aircraft early in the war, and has a history of misinformation.
They're's from the same Z crowd, can be honest sometimes, sometimes not. As they performatively cry about lost peacekeepers now, they will forget the next week, especially if its upsets some cops or whatever 🤷
Even Simonian does that on social media. "That's outrageous" to no problem at all
merry kiln
I mean... yeah, you have to take everything with a grain of salt, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't see why we shouldn't trust them that they're upset about it, I'm well aware that they're not going to do anything about it and it's going to be old news in two weeks. But that doesn't mean that it's not their current more or less true reaction.
silk nest
And makes it a bit more difficult for Russia to be as supportive of the attack and Azerbaijan as they've been
clever bay
Twitter
rancid rock
Sounds like Srebrenica D:
nimble hazel
https://x.com/JoeKassabian/status/1704860655172391281?s=20
Is there any evidence so far?
slate ocean
Is there any evidence so far?
other than a few similar accounts - no
rancid rock
Headline:
"The Azerbaijanis entered the village, beat up the husbands in their house, and then the son who came after the parents." Resident of Vardadzor
https://mediatime.am/?p=7212
nimble hazel
other than a few similar accounts - no
Some international observers would've helped
slate ocean
Some international observers would've helped
fierce knoll
This is quite an unprecedented divergence between the info coming out from Yerevan and Karabakh.
clever bay
Some international observers would've helped
I don’t think they could get in due to the lachin corridor blockade by Azerbaijan
But yes, would be nice.
subtle cobalt
https://politik.am/am/arcakhum-erku-anchapahas-erekha-en-glkhatel-turqery-hraparak
Source of the above.
slate ocean
for the record documentation of war crimes from The Program on Peacebuilding and Rights (PBHR) at Columbia University’s Institute for the Study of Human Rights
https://www.humanrightscolumbia.org/peace-building/atrocities-artsakh-nagorno-karabakh
clever bay
On Telegram, Azerbaijanis are circulating these photos and threatening to rape and murder the people in them.
(For their safety, we have obscured the faces of these individuals in this post).
Under the photo of the young woman, someone has offered $500 to anyone who delivers her to him. He is going to give her as a birthday gift to "Murad."
Above the photo of the children, someone was written, "Children of whores should clean toilets and work hard in mines for pennies."
Below the photo of the children, someone comments, "They are lost. Whoever finds them, rape them, cut them into pieces and give to dogs as dinner."
cloud light
https://politik.am/am/arcakhum-erku-anchapahas-erekha-en-glkhatel-turqery-hrapar...
What does anyone know about this source?
subtle cobalt
From what I can tell it's a local Armenian news-site. But the beheadings do track with past actions committed against civilians by the Azerbaijan armed forces.
rancid rock
fickle summit
clever bay
Twitter
merry kiln
mystic rose
summary of some of the events of the last two days and some context from expert comments that our editors tracked down
clever bay
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023/09/21/chaos-and-crisis-as-azerbaijan-attack...
Great article. Good job!
EU statement condemning the military operation by Azerbaijan against the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh.
Note they also said this bit before AZ attacked NK…
The EU stands ready to take appropriate actions in the event of a further deterioration of the situation.
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/azerbaijan-statement-high-representative-developments-nagorno-karabakh_en
pulsar spoke
https://x.com/neilphauer/status/1704888223514702103
Is there a source of this video?
slate ocean
Is there a source of this video?
This is what I could find
I'll try and find that telegram channel
clever bay
Thanks @slate ocean I was just about to post that. I don’t have a keyboard to manually type the telegram channel in to get a link to the video itself.
slate ocean
Thanks <@456226577798135808> I was just about to post that. I don’t have a keybo...
I use Google Lens to select the text in the screenshot image, copy past in telegram 🙂
clever bay
I use Google Lens to select the text in the screenshot image, copy past in teleg...
Nice. I’m going to have to remember that.
vivid topaz
At first I thought it was the same white van as the next post. It’s not, but this claim is concerning, whether it’s true or not:Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan: An ammunition warehouse was discovered at a civilian site in the village of Gozlukerpu. (…) It was also established that the specified ammunition was delivered to the territory of the state farm by ambulance.https://t.me/zangezuravtonomia/44943
clever bay
At first I thought it was the same white van as the next post. It’s not, but thi...
I don’t see any ambulance / medical related markings on it, am I missing something?
slate ocean
https://t.me/MaidenTower/41309
"Armenian media report that ICRC vehicles carrying food for Armenians living in the Karabakh region of Azerbaijan passed through the Lachin border checkpoint.
If the information is confirmed, then we can say that Baku is fulfilling the request of representatives of the Armenians of the Karabakh region of Azerbaijan, which they expressed at the meeting in Yevlakh. Next step is for the separatists."
lusty bison
https://x.com/NeilPHauer/status/1704868337962881292?s=20
Is independent verification really needed when the perpetrator has a history of publishing their crimes themself?
vivid topaz
I don’t see any ambulance / medical related markings on it, am I missing somethi...
Nor do I, but the claim opens up a whole lot of possible horrors.
vivid topaz
Is independent verification really needed when the perpetrator has a history of...
Yes.
slate ocean
“Photos of Russian peacekeepers and their car shot by Azerbaijanis were published” https://t.me/HAYELI_am/19089
slate ocean
https://t.me/zangezuravtonomia/44967
The group is discussing how they have encircled all cities
clever bay
rich tree
https://t.me/zangezuravtonomia/44940?single
Possible geolocation for these vids around 40.141875, 46.343242. Buildings appear to match up pretty well.
slate ocean
Possible geolocation for these vids around 40.141875, 46.343242. Buildings appea...
Well done, bro.
slate ocean
Possible geolocation for these vids around 40.141875, 46.343242. Buildings appea...
Nice work!
quartz sapphire
Possible geolocation for these vids around 40.141875, 46.343242. Buildings appea...
I searched the village name on duckduckgo images...is this the same building?
https://www.diarioarmenia.org.ar/armenian/շահումեանի-շրջանի-բազմազաւակ-ընտանի/
rich tree
Looks like the same style/build, but seems like there are a few of those red-roofed buildings in the area so could be a different one?
slate ocean
clever bay
For those interested, the UNSC meeting on Nagorno-Karabakh is starting.
https://media.un.org/en/asset/k1t/k1ti94chwd
lusty bison
slate ocean
yes, I was typing up the translation, that’s easier
prisma ginkgo
There’s what, 38 more waiting iirc
as ICRC always tweets about their work and considering that there was nothing today, it's probably true
lusty bison
yes, I was typing up the translation, that’s easier
You can run images through Google translate/lens and then check and correct the translation.
subtle cobalt
Yandex works better for images in my experience.
rich tree
https://x.com/war_noir/status/1704921933509177702?s=61&t=7El9Jh9N_nxcMz_72gPBUA
That video stitch is missing the middle video where the person filming shoots at the house.
slate ocean
Considering there are about 120k people there - this kind of explaines why not much is coming out.
clever bay
<@&709754742414377053> <@&941484701632307232> Can I pm someone about a telegram channel I found
shell badger
Yes, available
pliant kernel
Thanks Glib, let me know if any assistance is needed archiving it
nimble hazel
Is it some nasty war crime channel?
shell badger
Yeah, proper nasty
zealous swan
Thanks for passing that onto staff vs. throwing it in the discord. We appreciate it
subtle cobalt
<@&709754742414377053> <@&941484701632307232> Can I pm someone about a telegram...
Is it the telgram channel that I've seen talked about on twitter?
shell badger
We’ll take a better look at it tomorrow. But at least one video is from 2020. Unsure if the others are recent
clever bay
The screenshot (that led me to the channel) was from today but the video was 2020.
I’m not sure what telegram channel is going around Twitter unfortunately so I can’t verify that.
clever bay
Twitter
Photos of the targeted Russian peacekeeping vehicle accidentally targeted by Azeri forces killing 5 peacekeepers during the military operation in Nagorno Karabakh. Open sources say it appeared to be an ambush, with the personal belongings of the victims stolen.
Warning, pics in tweet contain pixelated graphic images.
https://x.com/nkobserver/status/1704926207966376409
clever bay
Thread covering the UNSC hearing on Nagorno-Karabakh today.
https://x.com/garmascardona/status/1704931687128596592
zealous swan
https://x.com/avetissianan/status/1704951851605721290
Could you spoiler the second link since there are bodies, and give a description? I know they are pixelated but it would be best with a spoiler and warning. Let me know if you don't know how to spoiler and I'll help you out!
clever bay
Could you spoiler the second link since there are bodies, and give a description...
Done, none of the other pics (2-4) showed up for me so I assumed it was the same for others.
zealous swan
Done, none of the other pics (2-4) showed up for me so I assumed it was the same...
Thanks!
dull torrent
Just a general warning, there are some particularly nasty videos circulating including one of a beheading of a civilian.
Take care of yourselves when researching the current situation and be please mindful of what you share here..... rules # 2, 3 and 4 apply and any graphic material needs to be spoilered with an appropriate content warning..... or indeed, ask yourself what is gained by posting anything extremely graphic in nature.
Thank you 👍
clever bay
frozen jewel
Just a general warning, there are some particularly nasty videos circulating inc...
Here's an article that maybe helps you and turn off the audio when looking at videos first.
https://gijn.org/how-to-maintain-mental-hygiene-as-an-open-source-investigator/
clever bay
Twitter
dull torrent
clever bay
Twitter
clever bay
I hate to say it but I’ll believe it when i see it.
For one, he also claimed there was no lachin corridor blockade for the past 10 months and that Artsakhcis had freedom of movement through the lachin corridor in both directions, etc etc.
clever bay
ABOUT 25,000 PEOPLE
They spent that night in the open air, not far from the airport. The delegation that went to the negotiations promised that after returning from Yevlakh they would solve the problem and people would return to their homes.
But the negotiators came and went, there was no solution. Now our compatriots, like this, in these field conditions, simply gathered in one area, do not know what to do.
It is reported from the scene that they are demanding a meeting with the authorities of Stepanakert. People have no one to answer and they don’t understand what to do or how to act. They just gathered in one place in uncertain conditions.
In addition to this, our inadequate Varchapet said yesterday that nothing threatens the residents of Artsakh🤦
https://t.me/ArmenianEye/11207
Twitter
Azerbaijani media report that Baku sent trucks with various food and hygiene items to Stepanakert.
https://t.me/zartnir/45279
@mystic rose can I shoot you a PM?
toxic holly
I saw a screenshot from that Azeri telegram channel :(
(it wasn't graphic but they gave a bounty to do something specific to specific people)
clever bay
I saw a screenshot from *that* Azeri telegram channel :(
(it wasn't graphic but...
Yeah 😦 be careful on that channel…
It’s absolutely horrible
I left it and deleted it from my recent. (After reporting it to staff)
toxic holly
The text was in Russian, though, which was kind of strange
mystic rose
<@527611127576920075> can I shoot you a PM?
yes
clever bay
Not uncommon though. A good percentage of folks in AM and AZ are bilingual at least, Russian + Azeri or Russian + Armenian. Especially any older generations.
pulsar spoke
I saw a screenshot from *that* Azeri telegram channel :(
(it wasn't graphic but...
Are you talking about the "zloy mamed" channel? I saw Neil repost it. Started checking, as the Russian language did seem suspicious (as the fact that the first post is around March). Also the fact that the whole channel is just hate in every post is mind boggling. I asked some of my acquaintances from Azerbaijan about it, they said the channel admin is someone from Russia and they are trying to take it down.
gentle sphinx
I forgot about this thread for a couple of days and now theres 500 new messages
clever bay
Are you talking about the "zloy mamed" channel? I saw Neil repost it. Started c...
Could be that it was posted in different telegram channels too. the one you mentioned wasn’t the one I saw it in though. 🫤
pulsar spoke
Could be that it was posted in different telegram channels too. the one you ment...
Ah I see. What is the name of the one you saw?
clever bay
I left it and deleted from my recent..
vivid topaz
Let's not advertise it.
clever bay
Possible geolocation for these vids around 40.141875, 46.343242. Buildings appea...
Anush Ghavalyan (journalist from NK but in Yerevan currently) confirmed your geolocation 👍
https://x.com/aghavalyan/status/1705158804214632597
Twitter
Good thread by Thomas de Waal.
https://x.com/tom_dewaal/status/1705154820041027924
Twitter
slate ocean
https://twitter.com/301arm/status/1705165554116399613?t=8eV8zbD3FyVZPraVRPv-qQ&s=19
Protests continue in Yerevan
rancid rock
123 rights defenders from Turkey called on international organizations to take an active stance for the security of the Karabakh people.
https://www.agos.com.tr/tr/yazi/29164/turkiyeli-hak-savunucularindan-karabag-icin-uluslararasi-orgutlere-cagri
rancid rock
From a user on LinkedIn, reporting sexual assault against children (covered as topic is distressing) ||https://www.linkedin.com/posts/armen-b-87b67078_this-is-what-azerbaijan-is-doing-to-the-armenian-activity-7110683353191759873-y6J5||
zealous swan
From a user on LinkedIn, reporting _sexual assault against children_ (covered as...
Sexual assault of children is distressing enough to warrant a spoiler and warning
rancid rock
Sexual assault of children is distressing enough to warrant a spoiler and warnin...
Censored, thank you for the advice
toxic holly
Also, honestly for the time being there's far too much fog of war that we (IMO) need to raise the bar for posting anonymous reports. I'd rather focus on named reports and footage that we could actually geolocate (like the video some time ago)
mystic rose
Also, honestly for the time being there's far too much fog of war that we (IMO) ...
Yeah I agree -- I had the same thought
toxic holly
We also have to remember, this is a pivotal moment in Caucasus politics and everyone is scrambling for the window of opportunity. For example Russia currently wants to create widespread panic in Armenia in order to force Pashinyan out. So this is an especially good time to be skeptical of rumors!
mystic rose
I think it's important to be aware that these reports are being made, but the focus of the server and this channel in particular ought to be on verifiable content
slate ocean
https://t.me/zangezuravtonomia/45024
Reportedly abandoned Armenian position
rancid rock
Situation in Stepanakert as reported by an Observer for France 24, published around 3 hours ago: https://observers.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20230921-nagorno-karabakh-civilians-fleeing-ceasefire
clever bay
https://x.com/canbackrasmus/status/1705190861183549830
Thread aside here’s his article.
https://blankspot.se/genocide-scholar-it-is-an-ongoing-genocide/
Twitter
slate ocean
clever bay
Min long video showing conditions for Armenians inside of the Russian Peacekeeping HQ
Forcibly displaced Artsakh residents at the RMK headquarters are in inhumane conditions, while Russian resources are broadcasting about how peacekeepers are “saving civilians”! Defeated Artsakh is not able today to take care of all the citizens deprived of their homes. The issue of their placement must be resolved immediately.
https://t.me/reartsakh/18955
slate ocean
Deleted my message as a lot of dead bodies are also been shown in that telegram channel.
clever bay
That video itself would’ve been a good video to get geolocated too I think. (Taken from heights overlooking Stepanakert)
opal spear
General reminder for everyone to follow the guidelines outlined in rule 2 in #rules in situations involving graphic imagery.
slate ocean
There was nothing graphic in that video itself, however the channel does contain graphic videos, i noticed only later. My apologies.
clever bay
Video of 15 Russian peacekeeper trucks going from Armenia (Goris) through lachin corridor to Stepanakert.
https://t.me/ArmenianEye/11248
slate ocean
I found some Facebook groups of people inside karabakh, situation indeed seems dire, i came across a couple requests to find lost family members (including children) and also some requesting blood donations.
clever bay
Six ICRC vehicles from Stepanakert drove towards Martuni to pick up the seriously wounded.
https://t.me/reartsakh/18956
ICRC staff transported 9 wounded in their cars from Martuni to Stepanakert, reports military correspondent David Torosyan.
https://t.me/reartsakh/18961
David Torosyan primarily posts on Facebook iirc
Twitter
slate ocean
clever bay
slate ocean
rancid rock
I don’t know if this has been shared here
https://twitter.com/agbu/status/1704887491105284164
clever bay
I don’t know if this has been shared here
https://twitter.com/agbu/status/170488...
Not sure either,
the top 4 handles are actually in Stepanakert. Top 2 are freelance journalists. Next 2 are current and former NK ombudsman. @geviskajyan is also in Stepanakert he’s with the ANCA organization’s artsakh chapter
Neil is a Canadian freelance journalists who has lots of connections in Armenia/NK, Georgia and Ukraine.
I’m not familiar with Tatevik unfortunately.
Tigran the bottom handle is from NK but in Yerevan now, he’s former Artsakh opposition party who’s now an analyst so he has lots of connections.
nimble hazel
Huh, Z channels are spreading videos of allegedly Russian peacekeeper base being bombed
mystic rose
Huh, Z channels are spreading videos of allegedly Russian peacekeeper base being...
Link?
silver gate
Link?
Think this one but this just an aggregator account https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1705492969292267704?s=20
mystic rose
Thank you
nimble hazel
Link?
This for example, posted earlier
https://t.me/voenkorKotenok/50740
slate ocean
https://t.me/bagramyan26/52184
Apparently a state duma deputy made remarks about how Armenia will "cease to exist".
rancid rock
There’s no verifiable content here though, but the woman in this video mentioned a name of the village attacked by Azeri forces: Sarnaghbyur. Her details are gory and mentioned organs, so I will be censoring this (click with care)
||https://www.facebook.com/100010023765244/posts/pfbid02V4nLtg7L5rnLQPXhQSWcj8ZSS6tMMoczuG8VQNQ621niyGBsLD4tgmZphr4Hs1jpl/||
clever bay
clever bay
Huh, Z channels are spreading videos of allegedly Russian peacekeeper base being...
Apparently that was “4 days ago” per Covid Aga too. (As opposed to being recent.)
https://x.com/cavidaga/status/1705506309653614971
vivid topaz
It even says "on 19 or 20 september" here. #1153646648476565574 message
prisma ginkgo
nimble hazel
Apparently that was “4 days ago” per Covid Aga too. (As opposed to being recent....
geolocation in thread btw
https://vxtwitter.com/ian_matveev/status/1705589439643230356
clever bay
🧵 by South Caucasus & Nagorno-Karabakh conflict expert Laurence Broers.
https://x.com/laurencebroers/status/1705632539979788786
Some snippets from the 14 part thread.
https://x.com/laurencebroers/status/1705632548167032915
https://x.com/laurencebroers/status/1705632552076091472
https://x.com/laurencebroers/status/1705632558682095810
slate ocean
Im extremely worried about the area s that currently not a lot of news comes out from
clever bay
Im extremely worried about the area s that currently not a lot of news comes out...
Same, lots of yet unverified accounts from villages outside Stepanakert. 🥺
slate ocean
Azerbaijani telegram channels keeps sharing updates about the territory currently under their control, but there is close to nothing coming out from areas outside of the capital
prisma ginkgo
that's quite the admission what they are doing everywhere else
https://twitter.com/Khkonul/status/1705550124842172558
clever bay
that's quite the admission what they are doing everywhere else
https://twitter....
That was my exact thought when I saw that tweet too
clever bay
Question for <@&709754742414377053>, I’ve seen a few posts like this on Twitter the past day or so, and folks are commenting saying to send the videos to Bellingcat (and others who can do something with them). Are you receiving any of them or have you already collected some of this content?
(Adding spoiler for description in tweet)
||https://x.com/vardpatrik/status/1705598489634193660||
mystic rose
Question for <@&709754742414377053>, I’ve seen a few posts like this on Twitter ...
as far as I'm aware, no
And specifically that tweet
As far as I know, no one has sent that in to us or contacted us about it
Its possible that one of us got tagged in a tweet with the video but we haven't realized it
clever bay
Someone posted censorsed (pixelated) pics of alleged new war crimes on Twitter, they said they have the uncensored videos. Myself and others suggested they send them to y’all (and other orgs too) for documentation/investigation.
I can send the link in a PM if staff would like.
mystic rose
Someone posted censorsed (pixelated) pics of alleged new war crimes on Twitter, ...
Yes please, thank you
clever bay
Neil Hauer’s piece, The fall of Nagorno-Karabakh
https://www.intellinews.com/the-fall-of-nagorno-karabakh-293875
zealous swan
I'm going to remove this link as the content it shows is in violation of the Discord community standards and there's quite a lot of gore. However I will send it to Bellingcat staff.
clever bay
clever bay
prisma ginkgo
the complicity of the media is insane. It is already ethnic cleansing and in no way "voluntarily" or whatever.
clever bay
slate ocean
echo zinc
the complicity of the media is insane. It is already ethnic cleansing and in no ...
With these issues that are more obscure in the West, with very little reported conducted and strongly relying on state agencies, they tend to get downplayed.
Not excusing it tho, I think that if we can tell then news agencies absolutely can if they put more effort and resources to get a better picture, but that's my understanding of why it happens
mystic mirage
Twitter
clever bay
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1705935206069248385
Twitter
clever bay
nimble hazel
Huh, does anyone speak the language?
https://vxtwitter.com/DylanBurns1776/status/1705927002975359069
west talon
Seeing the baby stuff left behind is heartbreaking
clever bay
clever bay
charred linden
15 years ago now that I started learning about these frozen conflicts. Totally surreal that the largest of them will be 'resolved' by outright ethnic cleansing.
clever bay
power is restored in Stepanakert
https://x.com/abaghyan_a/status/1706012782867440053?s=20
prisma ginkgo
clever bay
https://x.com/GabrielCSGavin/status/1705920694666555739?s=20
https://x.com/GabrielCSGavin/status/1706023755871371308?s=20
https://x.com/GabrielCSGavin/status/1706029215022190947?s=20
Twitter
clever bay
Twitter
nimble hazel
As I understand it, situation is next:
charred linden
Thanks for the summary
clever bay
clever bay
clever bay
clever bay
fierce knoll
Twitter
silk nest
https://armenpress.am/eng/news/1120410.html
For the corridor thing, Azeris have sort of rewritten and reinterpreted the original agreement to be "we get a strip of territory through Armenia" as opposed to "we'll both open to cross-border traffic".
Not that that will stop them from threatening more war
frozen jewel
mystic mirage
are there any reports on where the populace of Azerbaijan stand in regards to the attack on NK? any protests or other anti-war activity?
charred linden
What's the point of asking? Any protestors would be about as popular as anti-war protestors in the U.S. during WWII
frozen jewel
What's the point of asking? Any protestors would be about as popular as anti-war...
2020 same shit different year there were protests
charred linden
Very hard to protest against total victory though
mystic mirage
What's the point of asking? Any protestors would be about as popular as anti-war...
i dont really understand the question, i am generally interested in autocratic regimes and their interaction with society.
silk nest
I think any protests would be about the subsequent expulsions of the population, though the Azeris did preemptively arrest several anti-war activists in the days and weeks before the 19th
charred linden
My point is that we shouldn't make the mistake of viewing these breakaway state conflicts through the lens of Ukraine. It's not just some senile dictator with imperial delusions dragging his country to war here... restoring the lost territories is a complete societal consensus. It's been a popular issue for three decades.
mystic mirage
My point is that we shouldn't make the mistake of viewing these breakaway state ...
this is the context i asked for, do you happen to have some sources? and who wants to see this through a ukraine lens?
i mean its an important distinction if an autocratic regime is commiting warcrimes against the will or with full acceptance of their people.
silk nest
I don't have any evidence and it's kind of a difficult situation because any official polling coming out of an autocratic regime like Azerbaijan or Russia is inherently untrustworthy. However, there are indications like social media, marches in support (though those could easily be astroturfed), and civilians joining in with the crimes that at least a large chunk of the Azeri populace is in favour of any war crimes inflicted on Armenians.
charred linden
Suffice to say, restoring control over Karabakh is popular. About as popular as any political cause can possibly be. Opposition to doing so would be a completely marginalized viewpoint, and this state of affairs long predates Aliyev's rule...
Trying to slice and dice this obvious fact in terms of 'support for war crimes' is going to muddy the waters significantly.
And you don't need any polling data here. We're talking about the most basic, surface-level understanding of the conflict. These countries (Georgia as well) want to retake their lost territory and send their refugees back. It's one of the central aspects of their statehood and post-independence political culture at this point.
mystic mirage
i dont really follow, was just asking for some resources to read up on azeri society.
charred linden
This book would be a good resource; it's been long enough that I don't have easily digestible material on hand without refreshing my memory:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Garden
untold sedge
https://lefteast.org/anti-war-statement-of-azerbaijani-leftist-youth/ an anti-war statement from 2020: "They have been intolerant of any political dissent, severely oppressing dissidents through their massive security apparatus... They have been diverting resources from essential sectors, such as education, healthcare, and social welfare, into the military, making profits for our capitalist neighbors with imperialist aspirations—Russia and Turkey.
Strangely enough, every single person is aware of this fact, but a sudden wave of amnesia hits everyone as soon as the first bullet gets shot on the contact line between Armenia and Azerbaijan."
fierce knoll
The only protests likely to happen in Baku are if people feel the government is not sufficiently tough with Armenia
untold sedge
https://lefteast.org/anti-war-statement-of-azerbaijani-leftist-youth/ an anti-wa...
In their words, "very little anti-war activity"
clever bay
Even Azeri opposition is pro-war w/ Armenia. The vast majority of Azeri war dissent is from western sympathetic expats who live abroad.
fierce knoll
And the situation was identical on the other side. Before 2020, very few people in Armenia stood for any sort of concessions to Azerbaijan.
toxic holly
What's the point of asking? Any protestors would be about as popular as anti-war...
specifically anti-war protests on the day this picture was taken:
https://static.life.com/wp-content/uploads/migrated/2017/06/life-kisses-09-806x1024.jpg
clever bay
And the situation was identical on the other side. Before 2020, very few people ...
Take the 1997 (or 1998 I forget which) international peace plan that was backed by Azerbaijani leader heydar Aliyev and Armenian President Levon Ter-Petrosyan. LTP was forced to resign for backing it.
mystic mirage
there was a small number arrests for criticising the war: https://oc-media.org/azerbaijan-arrests-anti-war-figures/
charred linden
Anyways, this headline is disgusting. Armenians fleeing the credible threat of further atrocities and deliberate starvation IS ethnic cleansing.
(Or at least it will be as soon as Azerbaijan predictably doesn't let any of them return.)
clever bay
Here is a thread on Azeri opposition.
https://x.com/cavidaga/status/1705218141154943080?s=46
Twitter
Cavid responding to “Where are the #Azerbaijani-s who were talking about peace ? Where is the peace feminist collective ? Where is the 1”
https://x.com/cavidaga/status/1705153932039733269?s=46
Twitter
rancid rock
From Turkish-Armenian paper Agos:
Erdogan: We expect Armenia to take steps
-Aliyev brought the Zangezur corridor back to the agenda
-The number of Karabakh Armenians who took refuge in Armenia approached 7 thousand
https://www.agos.com.tr/tr/yazi/29188/erdogan-ermenistan-in-adimlar-atmasini-bekyiz
Plus another image of the evacuation from Karabakh:
silk nest
Anyways, this headline is disgusting. Armenians fleeing the credible threat of f...
"Wow, I sure am glad we dodged an ethnic cleansing by having all the people of a targetted ethnicity leave the area."
charred linden
"Wow, I sure am glad we dodged an ethnic cleansing by having all the people of a...
And it's the perennial narrative dodge of all ethnic cleansers. "The Palestinians/Georgians/etc left of their own accord; we had nothing to do with it."
But the BBC has always sucked at calling a spade a spade. Must have been 100,000 dead Syrians before they apologetically started calling it a 'civil war' instead of a 'conflict.'
toxic holly
And it's the perennial narrative dodge of all ethnic cleansers. "The Palestinian...
Yep. This also happened a lot in WW2
especially right at the end
rancid rock
But the BBC has always sucked at calling a spade a spade. Must have been 100,000...
Syrians though call it less of a civil war and more of simply a war, due to heavy involvement of foreign powers
nimble hazel
In their words, "very little anti-war activity"
People at large aren't anti-war with wars that are short and victorious even in democratic states, it's like the oldest trick governments do to boost incumbent popularity, it just doesn't always end with victory
prisma ginkgo
https://twitter.com/LikaZakaryan/status/1706331486339625179
E: this video is old, 2nd tweet is supposedly new
frozen jewel
Oh no
charred linden
Syrians though call it less of a civil war and more of simply a war, due to heav...
In the first years, not so much involvement though
prisma ginkgo
https://twitter.com/Aeternum7/status/1706332619980394738
any idea where this is exactly? Tried to find it, but i'm not good at this
unborn phoenix
Twitter
Idk who needs to hear this but this account is very Azerbaijan biased. Take their reporting with massive salt.
Proof: https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1706309807672586265
"voluntarily left Azerbaijan"
Many of my mutuals are following them
prisma ginkgo
yep
unborn phoenix
Jfc
fierce knoll
Why are you surprised? The Azerbaijan propaganda machine online is impressive. Many bots, many paid Western voices.
There was a guardian article about it a few years ago but I lost it
prisma ginkgo
not allowing any aid, once again showing their true face https://twitter.com/ArtsakhOmbuds/status/1706362395822579769
prisma ginkgo
clever bay
Idk who needs to hear this but this account is very Azerbaijan biased. Take thei...
Yes it’s pro-AZ propaganda.
clever bay
Rasmus is a Swedish journalist in Armenia and has been covering the conflict a long time. He recently got back in Armenia to cover it again for which he catches a lot of hate. Here’s his tweet.
Today's love messages. I blurred the pictures of war-crimes and passport details.
Putting spoiler in the tweet due to graphic language used towards him, but he blurred the pictures himself.
||https://x.com/canbackrasmus/status/1706295334446432743||
silk nest
His followup messages make it clear that he knows they're leaving because they fear massacres but he thinks because there haven't been any yet, it's just people leaving of their own accord for no reason whatsoever
And thankfully a lot of people responding by saying "that's literally the definition of ethnic cleansing"
ashen peak
"""""leaving on their own accord"""""
In the same way that those Canadian villages that evacuated before the wildfires arrived did so "on their own accord"
rancid rock
123 rights defenders from Turkey called on international organizations to take a...
Federation of Eurasian Turkic Associations chairman Ismail Cengiz labeled the Turkish scholars ‘Armenian-loving mankurts,’ according to Once Vatan news outlet.
“The 123 Armenian-loving mankurts must immediately be stripped of citizenship,” Cengiz said in a statement cited by Once Vatan. He said that after doing so the scholars must be sent to Armenia.
clever bay
prisma ginkgo
that's not just denying help but actively trying to kill even more people https://twitter.com/NKobserver/status/1706555756852494589
clever bay
Medical team and supplies depart by helicopter for Stepanakert to aid explosion victims
https://news.am/eng/news/783305.html
rancid rock
Long file of vehicles leaving Karabakh. The music bothers me though.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=EXiesZxuzzQ
clever bay
Up to 19,000
https://x.com/evn_report/status/1706652829241291234
clever bay
clever bay
Biden envoy troubled by reports of ‘violence against civilians’ in Nagorno-Karabakh
Asked by POLITICO (the author asked her) whether she agreed with warnings from Armenia’s Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan that the exodus reflected “ethnic cleansing,” Power — a former genocide scholar — declined to use the term.
https://www.politico.eu/article/joe-biden-samantha-power-nagorno-karabakh-violence-against-civilians-humanitarian-aid-armenia-azerbaijan/
Let me check dictionary.com here… yep, this is the textbook definition of ethnic cleansing…
fierce knoll
There are rumours around the Russian Telegram that the peacekeepers were killed intentionally because they walked in on massacre of civilians.
Any reliable info on that?
vivid topaz
Hadn’t even seen the rumours. Got any examples?
charred linden
The contrast to peacekeepers killed in South Ossetia is amazing
fierce knoll
One moment. It's all over the Armenian alt media
clever bay
Hadn’t even seen the rumours. Got any examples?
It’s been going around telegram a few days now. Even been linked in this channel before. (Although maybe it got removed at some point? Idk)
fierce knoll
clever bay
Any reliable info on that?
I’ve yet to see anything verified on it yet.
vivid topaz
One moment. It's all over the Armenian alt media
Thanks. And sorry, I was thinking more about it getting picked up by mainstraim Russian channels. Just scanning headlines I hadn’t noticed anything anyway.
ashen peak
*Biden envoy troubled by reports of ‘violence against civilians’ in Nagorno-Kara...
thoughts and prayers appears to be the response by the US and EU
In case you missed it: https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1706289607078207540
rancid rock
Oof @fierce knoll I think you have to enclose the two links in < > and put spoiler tags as well….
zealous swan
Yes spoiler this with a description
I did not want to see that
This is also extremely disturbing and should be spoilered with a warning
I'm going to delete those two posts but you may repost them with spoilers and descriptions
zealous swan
Oof <@707574962700943370> I think you have to enclose the two links in < > and p...
Feel free to ping me if you see this sort of thing anywhere on the server
rancid rock
Feel free to ping me if you see this sort of thing anywhere on the server
Alright will do
clever bay
There’s a lot of absolutely disturbing screenshots and videos out there from literally such a small timeframe of just these past few days. I don’t get it at all. Such absolute hate and somehow it’s normalized??? It’s not like one incident of a rogue guy with a mental illness (not that that’s ok either). It’s institutionalized and they brag with their buddies over it and stuff. Absolutely sickening.
frozen jewel
Agree, it's terrible what human mankind is able to do. So short time, so much death and hate.
rugged root
A lot of it is like a supercharged version of the toxins that allowed American soldiers to abuse prisoners at Abu Ghraib. They thought it was sanctioned from on-high, a legitimized unleashing of the illegitimate. And so they engage in atrocity.
It's also been an encouraged hatred since 1991 for most Azeris, as the nation-state of azerbaijan is as new as 1991. Armenians had a historical legacy of some sort of statehood prior to 1991, so it was easier to rely on older stories and traditions to build a new state. Azerbaijan's unifying narrative was opposing and fighting Armenians. That's not to condemn the people of Azerbaijan as cruel by and large, but rather to point out how the bad actors are able to act with such freedom.
slate ocean
rugged root
Found out today that my cousin was in the explosion
He's been pretty severely burned on his arms, but will survive. We're getting him out as soon as we can, to Europe or the US for advanced treatment for his burns
echo zinc
Sorry to hear that, hoping he is safe and recovers as quickly as possible 😦
prisma ginkgo
Twitter
frozen jewel
rugged root
clever bay
https://www.civilnet.am/en/news/752403/france-to-open-consulate-in-armenias-syun...
France will also be staffing a defense attaché at their Yerevan embassy going forward.
rugged root
France and Armenia have a storied diplomatic past, but this is still big news!
live-feed from Kornidzor (syunik)
clever bay
Would be amazing to see a bilateral Franco-Armenian defense pact like France announced with Greece 2 years ago.
rugged root
And the live on that just ended lol
rancid rock
That would further complicate the already-strained Franco-Turkish relations
Remember 2020? The mediterranean, Samuel Paty and the Second Karabakh War? All were points of contention by Macron and Erdogan
rancid rock
The number of Armenians from Karabakh who took refuge in Armenia exceeded 42 thousand
https://www.agos.com.tr/tr/yazi/29176/42-bini-askin-karabagli-ermeni-ermenistan-a-sigindi
The number of people who lost their lives in the fuel tank explosion in Karabakh increased to 68. 168 injured people were brought to Armenia.
https://www.agos.com.tr/tr/yazi/29190/karabag-da-yakit-deposunda-patlama-68-kisi-hayatini-kaybetti
Erdogan: “Azerbaijan solved this issue itself. Now, who’s in Khojaly? The real owners of Khojaly… We pray for Allah’s mercy to all the martyrs. Azerbaijani Army entered Khojaly to bring peace and tranquility, not chaos, blood, and death. They did not enter there like the Armenian bandits did years ago. They weren’t going there to kill people. They entered Khojaly to ensure the peace and tranquility that it deserved. They entered their own land with the good news of victories behind them. Now is the time for constant peace and tranquility for both Khojaly and Garabagh under the sovereignty of Azerbaijan. Armenia's duty is to be on the side of peace to establish and protect this peace.”
https://apa.az/en/foreign-policy/erdogan-now-whos-in-khojaly-real-owners-of-khojaly-412769
frozen jewel
Ftg
clever bay
The number of Armenians from Karabakh who took refuge in Armenia exceeded 42 tho...
Already up to 47,115 as of an hour ago too.
https://x.com/avetissianan/status/1706962179197374942
Twitter
I’m glad folks are able to get aerial medevacs out of there given the dire situation at the Stepanakert hospital.
prisma ginkgo
rancid rock
I don't know where in Interfax Azerbaijan The National found the 125 people killed; the latest values in the Armenian Health Ministry website is at 67.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/2023/09/26/nagorno-karabakh-explosion-armenia/
prisma ginkgo
https://twitter.com/raphaelbossniak/status/1705862627702837392
https://twitter.com/CanbackRasmus/status/1706968408552599687
so for some reason the water is now contaminated
toxic holly
https://twitter.com/raphaelbossniak/status/1705862627702837392
https://twitter.c...
TBH given there was a blackout that stopped the water pumps for a few days, especially with older infrastructure there can be quite a bit of accumulated residue from the pipes that will come with the water until they are flushed for a while. At least our blackout/disaster preparedness info packets here mentioned this
if this continues, though, then there's something very wrong with the water
slate ocean
rich tree
https://x.com/aworldunited2/status/1706760573235388559?s=61&t=7El9Jh9N_nxcMz_72g...
Yeah, when I looked at this video before it seemed like it was near where the other convoy/shooting videos were taken at ~40.140420, 46.345065 (the position on Google Earth appears to match up pretty well with where the old monastery building would be in relation to the bridge/road)
clever bay
Caucasus Heritage Watch said it was “the 13th century Charektar monastery” as well.
https://x.com/caucasushw/status/1706826914009157724?s=46
The Charektar Monastery is one of the best-known monastic complexes of the Martakert region. It is located on a hill, on the right banks of the Trtu River. The origin of the monastery’s name is unknown. The Holy Mother of God Church of the monastery was constructed in 1260. There are khachkars and gravestones with historically-significant inscriptions in the vicinity.
https://en.armradio.am/2023/09/27/footage-shows-azerbaijani-soldiers-shooting-at-13th-century-charektar-monastery-in-artsakh/
slate ocean
He's been pretty severely burned on his arms, but will survive. We're getting hi...
My heart is with you and your cousin, bro.
rugged root
My heart is with you and your cousin, bro.
thank you fam ❤️
fierce knoll
toxic holly
... maybe find a source for the video without the islamophobia? Good to document looting by Azeri soldiers but I don't think it's worth it to platform this
rugged root
... maybe find a source for the video without the islamophobia? Good to document...
I'll go further and say, as an Armenian, it actually hurts our cause/the cause of justice to share this sort of stuff uncritically. Not saying that's how it was shared I just mean like, the optics and whatnot.
Like I've seen people (NOT HERE obvi) retweeting Kevork Almassian and he's super not a great dude
zealous swan
This point is discussed a lot in regards to Kadyrov's people in the Russian invasion. If I see any of that islamaphobic/racist shit I unfollow
slate ocean
Like I've seen people (NOT HERE obvi) retweeting Kevork Almassian and he's super...
Kevork Almassian is an Assadist pisscat, yeah
fierce knoll
I'm going to delete those two posts but you may repost them with spoilers and de...
OK, I am now going to learn how to use spoilers.
||https://twitter.com/rahimsaliyev/status/1706758529296531816|| Azerbaijani veteran makes claims of carrying out mutilations of Armenians
||https://twitter.com/404Intel/status/1706247152945488125|| Blurred out image of an Azerbaijan soldier cutting off an ear.
I hope that worked.
fierce knoll
I'll go further and say, as an Armenian, it actually hurts our cause/the cause o...
As I understand it, we are not here to promote a particular cause. But to comment on veracity of various claims being made.
I will however try to read the text more carefully next time.
rugged root
As I understand it, we are not here to promote a particular cause. But to commen...
Oh I don't think you did anything egregious I just meant some people might read it wrong and attack ya for it if you don't put like, a visible disclaimer 🙂
slate ocean
Well if there’s any cause I support it’s the Azeri’s getting the f out of Nagorno-Karabakh.
But then again I tend to be a non-neutral fella who always supports the victim more than the murderer. I mean who doesn’t, lol,
zealous swan
OK, I am now going to learn how to use spoilers.
||https://twitter.com/rahimsal...
it worked fine, DM me if you ever need help with anything like this!
charred linden
Well if there’s any cause I support it’s the Azeri’s getting the f out of Nagorn...
The Karabakh Azeris got ethnically cleansed 30 years ago
slate ocean
The Karabakh Azeris got ethnically cleansed 30 years ago
Yep. That justifies what is happening today.
Ofcourse there’s history but what I am looking at today, makes me know that Aliyev forget what it feels like to be punched right up the chin.
toxic holly
The Karabakh Azeris got ethnically cleansed 30 years ago
Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind
(and the 90s cleansings were another "eye for an eye" for the Baku pogrom etc, and this goes even further back than that)
slate ocean
We’re still living in the neanderthal times.
clever bay
(and the 90s cleansings were another "eye for an eye" for the Baku pogrom etc, a...
Yeah, if only the ussr had approved the numerous pleas from NKAO over the decades to place them under the Armenian SSR. 😦 or if Stalin had drawn borders with considerations in the 20s to avoid ethnic conflicts instead of promoting instability in the Caucasus SSRs
toxic holly
He liked a good poison pill
it made the idea of breaking off of the USSR much more unappetizing
clever bay
Yeppers
charred linden
That's in hindsight, anyway. The notion of either country leaving the USSR was quite unimaginable at the time, and some minor ethnic conflict would be regarded as a footnote compared to the larger ramifications of secession.
austere vapor
Yep. That justifies what is happening today.
We all agree that Aliyev deserves….well, let’s call it justice, but for you to write: ”if there’s any cause I support it’s the Azeri’s getting the f out of Nagorno-Karabakh” is just an incredibly untactful thing to say about people who were ethnically cleansed from the area in relatively recent times.
fierce knoll
Agreed. This is why those conflicts are so complicated. The tragedy of the situation is that both sides are in their own way right. Armenians see a dictatorship whose soldiers torture and mutilate people in ways that would make even hardened terrorists blush, and want to be safe from them. Azerbaijan see an invader who not only occupied 1/6th of their country for 26 years, but expelled everyone living there, preferring the land to be empty instead. This could have only been resolved with a Bosnia'-type solution, defining clear areas and policing the internal boundaries, however nobody cared about the region enough to actually impose one.
slate ocean
We all agree that Aliyev deserves….well, let’s call it justice, **but** for you ...
Oh yeah it was untactful but given the lack of international response for the past 9 months and to many other situations, I’m less kind lately.
But I’ll shut my mouth on this topic, given I’m monkey brains and prevent this place from becoming less nice.
clever bay
Twitter
rancid rock
In case this has not yet been shared:
https://news.am/eng/news/783545.html
clever bay
The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic will be formally dissolved by the end of the year.
All government agencies are ordered to be disbanded by January 1, 2024, according to a decree issued Thursday by President Samvel Shahramanyan.
https://www.civilnet.am/en/news/752521/nagorno-karabakh-republic-to-be-formally-dissolved/
toxic holly
That's in hindsight, anyway. The notion of either country leaving the USSR was q...
At the time that happened, they had both just left the USSR for a couple years before being reconquered (it was right after the civil war)
frozen jewel
rancid rock
Turkish outlet Türkiye Gazetesi accuses Iran of colluding with Armenia
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-S144wt9IJo
charred linden
At the time that happened, they had both just left the USSR for a couple years b...
Not the USSR but the collapsing Tsarist empire
opal spear
I think this debate is a good reminder to focus more on the open-source research aspect here and less on historical and opinion-based discussion.
clever bay
Twitter
clever bay
US to announce disaster response team for South Caucasus amid Karabakh crisis
The US deployed a Disaster Assistance Response Team in the South Caucasus region to coordinate the U.S. humanitarian response.
The team will assess the situation, identify priority needs to scale up assistance, and work with partners to provide urgently needed aid.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-announce-disaster-response-team-south-caucasus-amid-karabakh-crisis-2023-09-28/
subtle cobalt
Oh yeah it was untactful but given the lack of international response for the pa...
It doesn't help that bit of persecution, as heinous as it was, was in response to over a century of larger pogroms, massacres, and ethnic violence against the people that expelled them The only reason that Azers were there in the first place was due to mass murder and genocide.
So you can debate until the fucking stars die out on this particular topic from multiple angles, and never get a morally sound answer other then stop being assholes
prisma ginkgo
clever bay
https://twitter.com/azatuhi/status/1707429845209174514/photo/1
I saw earlier Armenian govt sent 40 buses to Stepanakert. Hopefully they get there soon to help get folks out of there.
Another reason it’s taking so long… a lot of cars are running out of fuel along the way.
https://x.com/gabrielcsgavin/status/1707345273926693277?s=46
Twitter
prisma ginkgo
clever bay
RIP Artsakh, 1991-2023?
Yep! If we’re talking Armenian self rule in Azerbaijan it extends to 1923-2023 from NKAO + Artsakh
clever bay
clever bay
“The government of Azerbaijan and the UN have agreed on a mission to the region. The mission will take place over the weekend,” spokesman Stephane Dujarric told reporters on Friday.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/29/un-to-send-mission-to-nagorno-karabakh-for-first-time-in-30-years
fierce knoll
clever bay
Whoops posted this in the wrong forum post. 🤦♂️
Censoring the worst bits. The tweet has a 1.5 min video with audio of the NK refugee speaking in Armenian (I presume) if there are any Armenian speakers here who would care to translate it?
A forcibly removed refugee from #Artsakh recounts the horrors in Verin Hoghatagh village, where at least 6 disabled ppl, including his brother, were massacred. A woman named Anush was ||raped, mutilated & killed||, reminiscent of #Sumgait & #Baku massacres. @UN must visit to witness!
https://x.com/marokochinyan/status/1708625477827506463?s=46
fierce knoll
||https://twitter.com/araratpetrosian/status/1708789061521936638|| new claims of POWs shot last month (graphic)
clever bay
echo zinc
Another consequence of these events: https://twitter.com/euronews/status/1709144551791718596
Twitter
clever bay
Another consequence of these events: https://twitter.com/euronews/status/1709144...
Russia big mad too 😂
clever bay
Azerbaijan renamed a street in Stepanakert “enver pasha street”. Gee I wonder why Armenians don’t want to live under such a regime.
https://x.com/khankendi/status/1421849534049759238?s=46
toxic holly
Azerbaijan renamed a street in Stepanakert “enver pasha street”. Gee I wonder wh...
This is one of the most disgusting things I've seen in a long time
fierce knoll
Is it possible to complain to Google about this? You would not I imagine have streets named after Nazis on Google maps
clever bay
More warcrime footage. the entire video is blurred.
Terrorists from Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 viciously executing a wounded POW from Artsakh🇦🇲 while his still alive and is pleading with the terrorists to not kill him #AzerbaijanIsATerroristState
#Nagorno_Karabakh
Clear video too graphic to post
https://x.com/aworldunited2/status/1708930791865045085?s=46
zealous swan
Remember that audio can also be traumatic and if you watch this sort of thing (I don't see value in it) to watch it muted
gusty hare
Oh yeah it was untactful but given the lack of international response for the pa...
Agreed I get that maybe it’s SOP here but let’s not act like this is gentlemanly combat between two equally protected countries with a conflict that exists in a vacuum. Im also coming in a few days late so im sorry but like
Man why do the Azeris after the last even two years, given internal armenophobic propaganda deserve some level of just totally neutral ground to play on
clever bay
Man why do the Azeris after the last even two years, given internal armenophobic...
Yeah it's astounding to me that the open Armenophobia combined with war crimes perpetrated by Azerbaijan are not more widely covered in the media. Russian war crimes in Ukraine are widely covered outside of Ukraine. But it seems like only a very small segment of the media covers Azeri war crimes at all (thank goodness Bellingcat is among them imo)
clever bay
EU, US and Russia held secret talks days before Nagorno-Karabakh crisis
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-us-and-russia-held-secret-talks-days-before-nagorno-karabakh-crisis/
prisma ginkgo
That's their 3rd refusal in a row after agreeing to the western format
https://x.com/GabrielCSGavin/status/1709504979373826147?s=20
https://twitter.com/achopkins1/status/1709562108231201229
clever bay
That's their 3rd refusal in a row after agreeing to the western format
https://...
Azerbaijan says they won’t take part in any future talks with France as a member again due to agreement on arms sales w/ Armenia announced yesterday (mentioned in #caucasus-central-asia ). So… does that mean Armenia can block Turkey’s involvement in talks for providing arms to Azerbaijan?
slate ocean
clever bay
https://twitter.com/zelenskyyua/status/1709582921781190778?s=46&t=6Sn-YGNglfw_u6...
Fighting one genocidal dictator while thanking another genocidal dictator. 🫨
slate ocean
Fighting one genocidal dictator while thanking another genocidal dictator. 🫨
Such a bad take, yea.
Especially the bit about territorial integrity.
opal spear
To be fair, it is a consistent position to hold. It might be bad for only focusing on the legal aspect and ignoring the humanitarian and ethical side, but arguing from the perspective of international recognition of territorial claims does make sense in his position.
slate ocean
To be fair, it is a consistent position to hold. It might be bad for only focusi...
I know why he does it. Doesn’t make the take less bad, imo.
opal spear
Oh, I just mean that the territorial integrity is the least bad part of the take. Which is still a bad take overall.
slate ocean
Oh, I just mean that the territorial integrity is the least bad part of the take...
👍🏼
nimble hazel
To be fair, it is a consistent position to hold. It might be bad for only focusi...
Well, Ukraine doesn't recognise Kosovo either for that matter
opal spear
It's consistent 
clever bay
The European Parliament on Thursday adopted a resolution condemning Azerbaijan and the EU’s handling of the Nagorno-Karabakh crisis
Lawmakers called for the EU and its member countries to urgently reassess the bloc’s ties with Azerbaijan and pushed to suspend “all imports of oil and gas from Azerbaijan to the EU in the event of military aggression against Armenian territorial integrity or … attacks against Armenia’s constitutional order and democratic institutions.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/european-parliament-condemns-azerbaijan-eu-over-nagorno-karabakh-attack/
silk nest
> The European Parliament on Thursday adopted a resolution condemning Azerbaijan...
The sentiment's good but Azerbaijan's already occupying chunks of Armenia proper from the attempted invasion last September
clever bay
The Guardian made a short 12 minute documentary about the few days before and after the fall of Nagorno-Karabakh. Their reporter and cameraman were in Yerevan and Goris during that time.
https://youtu.be/tlW5tUew-dE?si=j4fwHZXw7tBe9vSo
mystic rose
If anyone happens to come across videos involving churches, could you share them here please and/or tag me?
clever bay
If anyone happens to come across videos involving churches, could you share them...
The one I’m aware off of the top of my head is the video of the Charektar monastery being shot at. I think it was posted back around 20 or 21 September. Here it is again if needed.
https://x.com/theusarmenians/status/1707033610530742357
mystic rose
Thank you
fierce knoll
If anyone happens to come across videos involving churches, could you share them...
I found a couple on Telegram will try to fish then out
.
fierce knoll
https://t.me/izlednika/633. The channel is somewhat Islamophobic.
fierce knoll
clever bay
https://vxtwitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1710724905837244421
Image is from 2015 it looks like.
https://fxtwitter.com/azconsulatela/status/615640056229814272
zealous swan
jason jay smart should stick to being mediocre about ukraine
dull ore
jason jay smart should stick to being mediocre about ukraine
I agree, but he's just messenger for a telegraph at this point
clever bay
@mystic rose can i send you a video?
mystic rose
<@527611127576920075> can i send you a video?
Yes
unborn phoenix
I'm blocked, sadge
prisma ginkgo
You really shouldn't as this guy is full of lies
clever bay
How a community fought for survival amid Azerbaijan's bombs by Olivia Katrandjian and Siranush Sargsyan
Content warning: Written descriptions of violence and death.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/nagorno-karabakh-azerbaijan-attacks-evacuation/
opal spear
Theiner (apart from his general unreliability) has pretty horrific views on this conflict and is strongly biased.
echo zinc
"Strongly biased" is quite the euphemism considering what he has said (wishing the death of Armenians, for instance)
dull ore
You really shouldn't as this guy is full of lies
I've heard his lectures and have full transcripts. Lead me to any area/event and I'll look it up. Nothing unreasonable or out of historical evidence that I've caught
dull ore
"Strongly biased" is quite the euphemism considering what he has said (wishing t...
I'm only relying on what I've heard him say across 5 sessions or streams and of which I have transcripts of.
zealous swan
I read his Twitter posts for 90 seconds and went, "I don't like this man at all and his takes lack nuance", also he's retweeting Visegrad24 lol
Oh man he retweets them nonstop, no wonder his takes are so bad 
rugged root
Yeah he seemed to think that Azerbaijan wouldn't ever attack Armenian (republic) territory cuz they'd be condemned but uh...they already have done that. And I thought Feb 24, 2022 proved to people to stop with the "that's not in their best interest" approach to international politics
I wanted to say something to him about bookmarking his tweet to remind him when the war starts of how wrong he is, but he'd probably hand-wave that as "just an angry diaspora Armenian"
slate ocean
Blinken warned lawmakers Azerbaijan may invade Armenia in coming weeks
He also said State isn’t planning to renew a long-standing waiver that allows the U.S. to provide military assistance to Baku.
clever bay
A 55 page report was released by the Ombudsman’s office of Armenia on the displacement of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians.
Here’s a screenshot of it’s table of contents. There are graphic descriptions of events, but no graphic pictures.
https://www.ombuds.am/images/files/e76a3b67b4a56fadb3271705e33eeec5.pdf
fierce knoll
Allegations of torture https://twitter.com/301arm/status/1715027499908796901
clever bay
Side note regarding 301 arm. If I recall, 301 arm is backed by the former Armenian PM Kocharyan and ARF so they tend to put out sensationalist statements/pieces in an effort to discredit the current Armenian administration. Like hyping up the protests against Pashinyan/the administration in September.
prisma ginkgo
while 301 is not a good source, this really is going around armenian media
https://news.am/arm/news/787750.html
dawn minnow
