#Canine Complications

37 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

narrow totem
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To continue the discussion on the topic of regulating dog breeds/ownership from #eu-uk.

final dirge
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Who let the dogs out, woof woof woof.

lusty rampart
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Continuing this discussion: #eu-uk message

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(Because when #eu-uk moves on to other topics it'll be harder to find.)

final dirge
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The UK has a surprisingly conclusive list of fatal dog attacks.

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In the United Kingdom, XL Bully dogs were responsible for half of all dog-related deaths between 2021 and June 2023, with a total of 10 people dying in attacks by the animals during the period.

halcyon orchid
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I've been following the original discussion in UK/EU and agree with the general thought that it's the type of owner that these dogs attract that is the problem. It raises to me another aspect of dog ownership and banning breeds, that of the current trend for small pug-type breeds that have been selectively bred to have squashed in faces that lead to inevitable breathing problems. A ban was requested I believe by the Kennel club but this was rejected by Government. I consider it is again a certain type of person buying these breeds, namely shallow, fashion led people who see them as status symbols and toys.

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This is of course a problem of human intervention harming the Dog a problem in many selectively bred types

tall bobcat
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The discussion about powerful dogs has many parallels with the discussion about powerful guns. Owners are eager to point out that if handled correctly and taken care of, both are very safe. But the problems start when the wrong type of people get hold of them. Also in both cases plain tragic accidents do happen in any case, and the results will be different Pitbull vs. Chihuahua, assault rifle vs. airsoft pistol.

halcyon orchid
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Handled correctly?, What is the correct way to handle an AR15, a semi automatic assault rifle designed for one purpose..killing people?

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This shouldnt be in here anyway, perhaps you should start a new thread

narrow totem
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I don't think it's necessary to open that particular can of worms.

tall bobcat
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I think what I said should absolutely be here, a thread about the issues surrounding big dog ownership. I'm pointing a parallel that I think is useful. The questions you posed about AR-15 ownership map pretty well to dogs bred for fighting. (Also to be clear - and this is off topic - I don't support owning assault weapons. I imagine correct handling to people who own them means fondling them time to time and shooting at the range.)

tall bobcat
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(I understand that the gun issue is a triggering (no pun intended) subject for people invested in it, but I'd say this is not bringing it up as a separate new thing, but as a justified side note to the main subject.)

whole nova
# final dirge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Yes, and there is probably an under reporting of bites from small dogs
who might be equally violent, but because they cause only small wounds no one is going to the media about them
Also, poor training in a dog might correlate with the type of owner. I wonder if it's possible that the type of people who buy these dogs for their image, and to look tough are also the type of people who wouldnt bother to properly train the animal, resulting in a higher number of untrained dogs specific to one breed
Obvioulsy the posibility for harm is much higher with these dogs and there should be extra responsibility involved for owning one.
Like how I can drive a car, but not a lorry as the posibility and potential for harm is much greater when driving a lorry therefore there is a whole level of training and licencing required for that

severe osprey
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In the case of the XL bully dog breed. This is a new breed first recognised as a breed in the US in 2004. It seems this breed was created with those "wrong kind of owners" in mind. The breed is not and has never been recognised by UK kennel club as a breed at all and it seems is unlikely to ever be.
It's known that part of the make up of the breed is American pit bull (banned in uk) but also staffordshire bull terrier (not banned in uk)
Because it's not recognised in uk as a breed, that causes confusion in banning it. The kennel club is not a government agency.
As I understand if a dog looking like an XL bully is confirmed as a pit bull cross it would be deemed illegal. Now as XL bully have been imported to uk and dogs can be shown to be breed from only american XL bullies there's a strong argument these dogs aren't pit bull cross even though they kind of are. How much pit bull is in an XL bully?
Now say we ban XL bully in uk we have to ban a cross which has a lot of Staffordshire bull terrier and that's a very popular dog in uk. So how do you word the ban on XL bully when XL bully is not a thing and an "XL bully" is a lot of a thing you don't want to ban.

Edit: anyway that's kind of the argument I read and the jist I got from a few articles however I think it's slightly more complicated than this. I put too much emphasis on ancestry. When there's a cross or doubt about what kind of dog a dog is police can do an assessment (even if they don't know a lot about dogs) police take might be if it behaves like a pit bull unless the owner can prove otherwise it is a pit bull.
Of the one XL bully type dog I knew about that the owner called an American bulldog, a number of neighbours complained about the dog and the police took it away deciding it was a dangerous breed.

final dirge
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What’s the situation in your countries regarding what happens after a bite, even if nobody dies of course.

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Here they just go through this process: #eu-uk message

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I know in some countries if you get bitten, you’ve a right to insist the dog is euthanised immediately, or otherwise there’s 2-3 strikes system.

severe osprey
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I think in the UK it's down to a police assessment of the dog.

  1. do they believe the dog is a banned breed. Looks and behaves like banned breed, owner can't prove otherwise.
  2. has the dog attacked someone in a serious manner.
  3. after a report of a not so serious incident do they think the dog is safe. Do they think it's likely to do the same again.

I stand to be corrected if anyone know better.

whole nova
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I think you can be prosecuted for having dangerous dog

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regardless of the breed?

final dirge
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https://vxtwitter.com/rishisunak/status/1702630698178236756

vxTwitter
It’s clear the American XL Bully dog is a danger to our communities. I’ve ordered urgent work to define and ban this breed so we can end these violent attacks and keep people safe. 💖 372
Rishi Sunak (@RishiSunak)

It’s clear the American XL Bully dog is a danger to our communities.

I’ve ordered urgent work to define and ban this breed so we can end these violent attacks and keep people safe.

💖 372

▶ Play video
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Two Bully XL dogs it seems.

severe osprey
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The reporting is becoming a little bit sensational now. All seams based on reading from bulllywatch.link website.

Note Gloria Sigmund from @bullywatch https://bullywatch.link (both registered July 2023) appears to be a pseudonym. (Scientist?)
However I can't say the research isn't good, just surprisingly detailed. They've got a proper bellingdawg operation going on there.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/killer-kimbo-xl-bully-half-of-uk-pets-descended-one-us-dog/

Bully Watch
Bully Watch

Raising Awareness of the Scale of Large Bully-related Dog Attacks in the UK

LBC
How half of all XL bully dogs in Britain are descended from ‘notori...

Half of XL bully dogs in Britain are descendants of an inbred pet from the US linked to multiple deaths and violent incidents, it has emerged.

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I can't really see what research opportunity there is here other than after today's announcement from Rishi Sunak of a ban by Christmas anyone in continental Europe might want to check their popular pet buying and selling web sites.
Those pups gotta go somewhere.

rare sigil
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I just don't understand why the UK specifically exempts breeds like the Rottweiler from dangerous dog regulations. These laws make no sense

severe osprey
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I think UK 1991 dangerous dogs act was aimed primarily at Pitbulls following a spate of attacks by pitbulls. The other three breeds didn't really exist in the UK but it seems we're added to prevent them being brought in as a replacement for pitbulls.

whole nova
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As often happens, laws are passed in reactionary circumstances after specific situations

severe osprey
barren quest
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Walking my doggo, a scrappy girl, on her lead, and a family with a large staffy off lead walk past me. Dad is closest to me, mom had baby in her bjorn.
I quickly picked up my dog, as their dog came galloping over, and I looked visibly scared. It's because my dog will not like being approached by their dog and I don't want their dog to kill her in reply.
Dad calls me a F** B** and tells me off, when I told him to apologise to his family for his awful language, he really let lose. I filmed the argument, I'm a little embarrassed to release it! It ended by him telling me I'm a racist. This is a white English man in his early 30s , he said its because I don't like staffies.

Obviously, I'm not a racist.

I think there's a need that white English men have, though, to be seen as oppressed, to be 'karen-ed', to cast everyone atoms them as malevolent & hyper judgemental. That means they never need to change, or be considerate to those around them, because they're oppressed.
For the record, I walked my neighbour's staffy almost every morning until she died. Great mates with my dog. His staffy was unknown, off lead, and didn't listen to their commands.

severe osprey
severe osprey