Thread for following the riots in France.
#French Riots
jagged holly
There are special rules in effect for this forum post. Please abide by the following:
- Use this forum post to share news of the riots
- Please share links. Always.
- Speculation, discussion, and debate can go in #eu-uk.
void moat
I think the footage speaks for itself. This is no ordinary round of trash burning.
molten iris
https://twitter.com/UNSAPOLICE/status/1674749283306749953?s=20 original post was a picture too but I think google lens should do the job on this one
Looks more or less OK, "nuisible" as a noun should translate to "pest" imo
sharp maple
https://twitter.com/alliancepolice/status/1674748244960632832 same post by this account although it outright says theyre at war
Today the police is in #combat because we are at war.
Tommorow we shall be the #resistance and the Government will have to take conscience of that
void moat
This is an incredible show of force by the demonstrators. This takes a level of planning and cooperation to pull something this sustained off.
https://t.me/nzona3/1386
(This is a nationalist group in Europe)
The link above contains nine (9) separate videos/locations of some serious damage.
void moat
Do we know if the riots are national or regional?
sharp maple
theyve crossed over to belgium
Call for riots in french-speaking part of Belgium too https://twitter.com/ClickActu/status/1674795790592806914?t=NYLLz-LpcFMSq5BleRRsSQ&s=19
allegedly
void moat
Do we have imagery of Belgian rioting?
sharp maple
Nothing I found with a quick search, but belgian social media appears to be worried about riots happening there
void moat
So it's still national.
sharp maple
Yea, just a hypothetical so far.
Parisian family sent pictures they took today, I can't share them because of that, but lots of destruction in Montreuil
^
ACADEMY OF STRASBOURG
Liberty Equality Fraternity
SITUATION POINT IN THE ACADEMY OF STRASBOURG
PRESS RELEASE
Strasbourg, 06/30/2023
On the night of June 29 to 30, 2023, some schools in the Strasbourg Academy were the target of intrusions and damage, some of them significant, mainly in the Cronenbourg and Hautepierre districts of Strasbourg.
The premises of the Marguerite Perey school and the Sophie Germain college are no longer able to accommodate students before the next school year.
In addition, the Alphonse de Lamartine college in Bischheim, and the Érasme college in Strasbourg, were also targeted and suffered degradations which do not call into question the normal functioning of the establishments by the end of the school year. .
Olivier Faron, rector of the Strasbourg academy, quickly visited the affected establishments, with Josiane Chevalier, prefect of the Grand Est and Bas-Rhin regions, Frédéric Bierry, president of the European community of Alsace and Jeanne Barseghian, mayor of Strasbourg. They commended the responsiveness and good coordination of the heads of establishments, the mobile security team of the rectorate, agents of the European community of Alsace and the Eurometropolis of Strasbourg, and the police and firefighters who enabled rapid and effective action to deal with these extraordinary situations. The rector expressed his full support for the staff, students and parents greatly affected by these acts of vandalism.
"Our school" is open to all, it is our common good. It is our collective responsibility to preserve it.
molten iris
Do we know if the riots are national or regional?
National but riots happened in various parts of the country, you can scroll https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/direct-mort-de-nahel-nouvelle-nuit-de-violences-dans-plusieurs-villes-242-interpellations-en-region-parisienne_5921420.html to find examples (Roubaix, Marseille, Rouen, Nantes, Metz...)
void moat
^
> ACADEMY OF STRASBOURG
> Liberty Equality Fraternity
> SITUATION POINT IN TH...
The places mentioned.
sharp maple
https://twitter.com/Steve_Laws_/status/1674728497552433152 fireworks were launched in this video, might be related to the one Jimmy posted above
far right is rallying around this event, as usual
sharp maple
The places mentioned.
map of violence in urban areas at night between 29th to 30th june
source: compilation from regional press, of amateur videos and AFP
-franceinfo
molten iris
Can't find confirmation of a burned down library, Alcazar in Marseille was damaged but not destroyed https://www.laprovence.com/article/region/19174776722846/bruler-des-librairies-est-un-sacrilege-elon-musk-reagit-aux-incidents-a-la-bibliotheque-alcazar-de-marseille
void moat
National but riots happened in various parts of the country, you can scroll http...
Erroneous Map: Deleted.
sharp maple
https://twitter.com/libertystrikes2/status/1674831908109262848 me throughout this whole thing honestly, having to sift through a lot of indian twitter messages
Found a Daily Stormer article praising the riots for raising ethnic tensions
molten iris
I see a Cayenne on your map and I suppose you got it wrong, there's a report of a man who died from a "lost bullet" in Cayenne, French Guyana
void moat
I see! It defintiely took me there, and I thought, really, noooo... My bad.
molten iris
Also Matignon most likely refers to "hotel de Matignon", office of the Prime Minister
void moat
You see. This is why I need French friends!
sharp maple
Was that man actually part of the riots in french guyana, or is it not linked whatsoever?
molten iris
Was that man actually part of the riots in french guyana, or is it not linked wh...
Was standing on his balcony
molten iris
I see a Cayenne on your map and I suppose you got it wrong, there's a report of ...
(this incidentally means the riots spread to Americas - while remaining national atm)
Also, let's not overblow this : the situation is serious but I'm currently walking in the streets of Lyon and they look pretty normal, the riots weren't even something we talked about today with my colleagues at the office
sharp maple
my parisian family is a bit distraught on my end
jagged holly
Is there a primary source for this?
sharp maple
they keep sending videos and pictures to our group chat, and I dont know enough about opsec to post them here.
sharp maple
Is there a primary source for this?
posted RUMINT and said the account isn't really that good to share, forgot to delete
jagged holly
No RUMINT please 🙏 RUMINT is a fancy word for "unsubstantiated rumour"
ebon elk
I see on the far-right-related things I cover a decent amount of stuff about the riots (you can imagine what they're saying), so I'd just reinforce to be careful with accounts we see. Clearly we already are, which is good, let's keep that way. A lot of good journos etc can fall in the heat of the moment for nonsense online.
void moat
No RUMINT please 🙏 RUMINT is a fancy word for "unsubstantiated rumour"
It's online slang for rumor intelligence, as in rumors. To be ignored is best.
ebon elk
I did see that transit in Ile-de-France is being shut at 21h00
sharp maple
yea but it sounds cool
void moat
I did see that transit in Ile-de-France is being shut at 21h00
Indeed.
sharp maple
I'm not allowed to link Daily Stormer here, right Michael?
sullen coral
RUMINT is the 
word for "gossip"
undone zenith
I live in France in Marseille if I can give you some informations
sharp maple
I live in France in Marseille if I can give you some informations
I've been seeing a lot of stuff coming out from there
void moat
https://vxtwitter.com/MLP_officiel/status/1674797339956097029
I don't very many of us speak French.
undone zenith
There are a lot of curfews in the big cities today
void moat
There are a lot of curfews in the big cities today
Are they all at 9?
undone zenith
I don't very many of us speak French.
Do you need a translation?
molten iris
https://twitter.com/N3RONEWS/status/1674817605386014720
Really not sure about this account : "haut du lièvre" seems to be where a library in Nancy narrowly escaped being burned down a few months ago https://www.estrepublicain.fr/faits-divers-justice/2022/10/25/incendie-dans-le-quartier-du-haut-du-lievre-le-centre-commercial-desaffecte-est-detruit-par-le-feu
undone zenith
Are they all at 9?
no in Marseille at 18h00
sharp maple
https://www.rfi.fr/fr/en-bref/20230630-emeutes-marine-le-pen-rn-demande-à-emmanuel-macron-de-recevoir-les-partis-réprésentés-à-l-assemblée-nationale this should be the article on whats in the video
undone zenith
Really not sure about this account : "haut du lièvre" seems to be where a librar...
no It is a disaffected mall
undone zenith
Are they all at 9?
in some cities 19h, 20h...
void moat
in some cities 19h, 20h...
I can see that. Some places making it earlier to keep things in order.
sharp maple
reposted from another discord:
https://twitter.com/prefpolice/status/1674827134383144966 police is allowing drones
undone zenith
I can see that. Some places making it earlier to keep things in order.
yes, because there are smaller cities than Paris
sharp maple
A prefectural decree (n°2023-00766) authorizes the capture, recording and transmission of images by means of drones by the @prefpolice
in several municipalities of departments 92 and 93 until Saturday July 1, 2023 at 6:00 a.m
undone zenith
reposted from another discord:
https://twitter.com/prefpolice/status/16748271343...
yes there are drones and light armoured vehicles
molten iris
no It is a disaffected mall
One of the pictures mentions the "médiatheque"
undone zenith
One of the pictures mentions the "médiatheque"
I will look it wait
void moat
@undone zenith Have you heard any live rounds?
undone zenith
One of the pictures mentions the "médiatheque"
they say the library was preserved, not burned
undone zenith
<@528640926101536771> Have you heard any live rounds?
I am near the center but not enough to ear the riot. However, I ear firemen vehicles.
sharp maple
https://twitter.com/emilykschrader/status/1674790068060553216 video is allegedly from yesterday's riots
gonna say RUMINT to cover my ass on this one. RUMINT
undone zenith
I am afraid to go in mainstreet " la canebière".
https://twitter.com/ColeStangler/status/1674798528114343937
I can explain or translate videos or articles if you want
void moat
I am afraid to go in mainstreet " la canebière".
https://twitter.com/ColeStangl...
Really appreciate the insight. Please be safe.
sharp maple
I speak french as well, although some dialect can be a bit confusing. I'm french-canadian
Be safe.
undone zenith
Really appreciate the insight. Please be safe.
thank you
undone zenith
I speak french as well, although some dialect can be a bit confusing. I'm french...
thank you
What is happening in Marseille : https://twitter.com/bleuprovence/status/1674835875190980608
It's "Belsunce"
A friend have seen an helicopter watching his neighboorhood
molten iris
I'd certainly stay away from traditional "meeting points" for protests or gatherings tonight
undone zenith
Press are talking the government is thinking to activate the state of emergency like during the 2005 riots : https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Archives/Archives-des-actualites/2015-Actualites/Qu-est-ce-que-l-etat-d-urgence
undone zenith
I'd certainly stay away from traditional "meeting points" for protests or gather...
take care of you
sharp maple
https://twitter.com/DamienRieu/status/1674834048881917973 more rumors of a priest getting assaulted yesterday at St Etienne
My feed is now 90% indian
ebon elk
I'm not allowed to link Daily Stormer here, right Michael?
We would prefer not haha
undone zenith
https://twitter.com/DamienRieu/status/1674834048881917973 more rumors of a pries...
Damien Rieu is a far-right activist
void moat
Damien Rieu is a far-right activist
Which is a good idea why we shouldn't post rumors.
ebon elk
I also speak French fyi (non-native/Canadian/sloppy-but-univ-level)
(looking at English language far right extremist stuff on telegram, they really are convinced the entire country is burning down Camp of the Saints style)
undone zenith
(looking at English language far right extremist stuff on telegram, they really ...
They are waiting for a civil war, these silly men
ebon elk
They are waiting for a civil war, these silly men
they will be disappointed (not to downplay the severity of what is happening)
undone zenith
Yesterday, a man died in French Guyana https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Archives/Archives-des-actualites/2015-Actualites/Qu-est-ce-que-l-etat-d-urgence
sharp maple
this stuff is high octane fuel for theses groups. An ability to redpill normal people to the immigrant danger, the narrative of minorities being ultra violent is getting concentrated and is really taking off on twitter
undone zenith
they will be disappointed (not to downplay the severity of what is happening)
so true
sharp maple
A good time to look at what the accounts that have the most to gain from such rhetoric have to say right now
Twitter
Video games, individualism, social conditions... Macron and the others no longer know what to do to clear the culprit: immigration.
Twitter
ebon elk
Par for the course for the French right for how many years now
sharp maple
Last night, the foreign enclaves once again showed what they were capable of: #emeutes , attacks, fires, looting, ransacking of the public services that we have been funding by the billions for so many years.
As always, it's the submission that turns the criminals on. That of the government and the left has a huge share of responsibility.
Only firmness can restore order and peace. I demand the establishment of a state of emergency this evening.
#Nanterre
molten iris
(looking at English language far right extremist stuff on telegram, they really ...
Reminds me of 2005, international press coverage made it look like the whole country was in a civil war
sharp maple
https://vxtwitter.com/ClementLanot/status/1674850821429657612 Place de la Concorde, Paris
molten iris
Things are possibly worse today than they were in 2005, I live in one of the biggest cities in the country, and I haven't seen anything weird with my own eyes yet
sharp maple
have you been downtown yet?
molten iris
granted, as mentioned previously - I'm staying away from protests and gatherings, but still most French people will only see violence on TV or internet
sharp maple
I dont think theres a lot of riots in suburbs or in the housing districts
https://vxtwitter.com/Milleniumishere/status/1674852727745019917 video purporting to show a mayor "Francois" having his car burned down
molten iris
the last series of tweets looked like protests more than riots
molten iris
looks like most major cities shut down their public transport network before the night falls
but actual curfew are only enforced in a few cities as far as I can tell, like Clamart, Rosny-sous-Bois (both suburbs of Paris), Roubaix and Tourcoing (Northern France) https://www.bfmtv.com/paris/emeutes-le-centre-commercial-rosny-2-pille-un-couvre-feu-mis-en-place-a-rosny-sous-bois_AN-202306300684.html https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/hauts-de-france/nord-0/violence-apres-la-mort-de-nahel-couvre-feu-manifestations-interdites-les-mesures-de-securite-annoncees-2806007.html
undone zenith
the last series of tweets looked like protests more than riots
They called it "wild protests"
molten iris
because they were not authorized, I guess no protests at all were authorized today
ebon elk
Flashbangs/fireworks?
orchid folio
Fireworks vs bean bags?
molten iris
https://vxtwitter.com/ArnaultRaphael/status/1674869435054579724 far right activists with baseball bats on the streets in Angers (western France)
molten iris
flashback: in mid-April, just after he signed the law of his controversial retirement reform, Macron talked about "100 jours d'apaisement", 100 days of appeasement after the lengthy protests and strikes: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-macron-promises-government-action-plan-next-100-days-2023-04-17/ ... well.
it might take some time, but I guess there will be some analysis of how these riots are different from 2005 and what role social networks played
brittle oak
https://twitter.com/emilykschrader/status/1674790068060553216 video is allegedly...
"We're going to make a shoah"
brittle oak
spare root
Why are they targeting that Holocaust memorial?
molten iris
https://www.20minutes.fr/faits_divers/4043737-20230630-mort-nahel-paroles-prononcees-policiers-juste-avant-tir-ur-enquete the last words are definitely "dans la tête" and I understand "shoote-le" from the other cop too
https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/mort-de-nahel-javais-peur-quon-me-tire-dessus-le-passager-qui-a-pris-la-fuite-sort-du-silence-30-06-2023-2LGI4CKJYBD4ROACDHZQZFEF4E.php behind a paywall but here's what it says :
Dans la Mercedes jaune, Fouad était au moment des faits le passager avant. Pris en chasse par les deux motards de la Direction de l'ordre public et de la circulation (DOPC), alors qu'ils circulaient à vive allure le long d'une voie de bus, à Nanterre, les adolescents se retrouvent bloqués dans un embouteillage.
Selon le récit de Fouad, les motards mettent alors pied à terre. « Ils sont arrivés en courant. Ils nous ont dit de baisser la fenêtre. Nahel a baissé la fenêtre », affirme l'adolescent. Les deux motards se placent sur le côté gauche de la voiture, l'un à hauteur de la portière du conducteur, et l'autre au niveau de l'aile avant.
« Le motard qui était près de la fenêtre a dit : Éteins le moteur ! Et il a mis un coup de crosse à Nahel, gratuitement. Le deuxième motard s'est penché par la fenêtre, et il lui a mis un coup de crosse, lui aussi. » Selon Fouad, Nahel était alors « un peu sonné » et « paniqué ». « Il ne savait pas quoi faire. Il avait la tête qui tournait, il était vraiment traumatisé », glisse-t-il.
Selon Fouad, les policiers auraient alors « commencé à braquer Nahel ». Le policier placé près de la vitre conducteur aurait dit : « Éteins le moteur ou je te shoote ! » Le binôme du motard, placé à l'avant du véhicule, aurait renchéri, en disant : « Un truc comme : Je vais te mettre une balle dans la tête ! »
Toujours d'après le récit de Fouad, le jeune conducteur a « essayé de se protéger, pour ne pas se manger un autre coup ». « Et comme il était un peu sonné, son pied s'est enlevé de la pédale de frein. Comme c'est une voiture automatique, elle a avancé toute seule. Le policier situé près de la fenêtre a dit à son collègue : Shoote-le ! C'est là que le motard qui était à l'avant a tiré », retrace le jeune homme.
deepl translation:
At the time of the incident, Fouad was the front passenger in the yellow Mercedes. Taken in pursuit by the two motorcyclists from the Direction de l'ordre public et de la circulation (DOPC), while driving at high speed along a bus lane in Nanterre, the teenagers found themselves stuck in a traffic jam.
According to Fouad's account, the motorcyclists then dismounted. "They came running. They told us to roll down the window. Nahel rolled down the window," says the teenager. The two bikers positioned themselves on the left side of the car, one at the height of the driver's door, and the other at the level of the front fender.
"The biker by the window said, 'Turn off the engine! And he took a swipe at Nahel with his rifle butt, gratuitously. The second biker leaned out of the window and hit him with the butt, too." According to Fouad, Nahel was then "a bit stunned" and "panicked". "He didn't know what to do. His head was spinning, he was really traumatized," he says.
According to Fouad, the policemen then "started to point the gun at Nahel". The policeman positioned near the driver's window reportedly said: "Turn off the engine or I'll shoot you!" The motorcyclist's partner at the front of the vehicle added to this, saying, "Something like, 'I'll shoot you in the head!
According to Fouad's account, the young driver "tried to protect himself, so as not to get hit again". "And as he was a bit stunned, his foot came off the brake pedal. As it's an automatic car, it went forward on its own. The policeman by the window said to his colleague: Shoot him! That's when the biker in front fired," recalls the young man.
molten iris
important piece of context, a law was passed in 2017 that expanded the police's right to use firearms in cases of "refus d'obtempérer" (drivers that don't comply an order to stop) : https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/world/europe/france-police-traffic-stop-shooting-law.html
molten iris
unsurprisingly, there are calls for the revocation or at least revision of that law: https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/nanterre-lfi-depose-une-proposition-de-loi-pour-limiter-le-recours-aux-armes-en-cas-de-refus-d-obtemperer-20230629
sharp maple
yea I linked part of the statement of France Insoumise's proposition to solve the problem
well a regional council (I think
sharp maple
https://twitter.com/ZemmourEric/status/1674303699965837313
Also connected the dots yesterday
Zemmour is talking of "c'est la soummission qui excite les criminels", its submission that excites criminals.
Its a reference to this book
The novel imagines a situation in which a Muslim party upholding Islamist and patriarchal values is able to win the 2022 presidential election in France with the support of the Socialist Party. The book drew an unusual amount of attention because, by coincidence, it was released on the day of the Charlie Hebdo shooting.[7]
ebon elk
#NoItHasnt....there's a lot of people projecting their fantasies onto this
molten iris
https://vxtwitter.com/franceinfo/status/1675043302481985537 a new WTF moment : Fabien Roussel, head of the French Communist Party, says he wants to block social networks during a crisis
(the party hasn't really been relevant in national politics since the ... eighties I'd say)
they were an important political force in post-war France, but the last time they got more than 10% in a national election was in 1988
ebon elk
they were an important political force in post-war France, but the last time the...
yeah isn't melenchon essentially the left/far-left voice and leader these days?
molten iris
essentially, yeah, but he's getting old and a successor hasn't really emerged yet
could be François Ruffin
sharp maple
Macron has his work cut out for him, we've been seeing an increase in rightwing rhetoric from him theses past few years.
molten iris
for decades the power shifted between two "historical" parties : the Socialist Party (Mitterrand, Hollande) and a "classical" right-wing party that changed names a few times (RPR, UMP, now LR for "Les Républicains") (Chirac, Sarkozy), but in 2017 Macron shattered that
sharp maple
If he doesn't, its likely he won't get reelected. Ignoring the current problems is going to radicalize french politics more than they already are.
In American terms, he's the Obama before a Trump gets elected and promises to fix them, no matter how insane the solution
molten iris
Macron cannot get reelected unless the constitution changes
sharp maple
oh thats right, sorry
molten iris
he cannot run for a third consecutive term
sharp maple
but his brand of neoliberal centrism I mean
I have french citizenship, but I havent been keeping up with the politics there whatsoever unless we're talking about the major terror attacks, but thats a reactive outlook at the sociopolitical mess thats being generated there rather than an active one.
Most far right parties campaign on an anti-immigration platform. I think its going to be less than half a decade before even the centrist ones start doing so too.
molten iris
you can add vx before twitter.com to make previews work (fxtwitter.com seems broken atm, not sure whether vxtwitter will continue to work if Elon keeps breaking Twitter's API)
but yeah, not surprised to see far right everywhere posting that kind of stuff (and showing they know nothing about the history of France - but that too isn't a surprise)
molten iris
about immigration to France, an interesting thread by journalist François Camé about the "zero ones" : people from Maghreb who were recruited by car manufacturers in the 60s and 70s, and didn't know their precise date of birth so just had "01/01" on their french documents https://twitter.com/FrancoisCame/status/1674364535795249154 (full thread at https://mem.ai/p/mw8UrD17oJj1yiNi6KjE, google translation looks OKish except for the translation of the indefinite pronoun "on" to "we")
void moat
Waking to this... So sad. To the French folks here. I'm so sorry this is happening to your people.
molten iris
again - let's not overblow this, there will be unrest for a few days, maybe weeks, but it will calm down
the underlying causes have been there for decades now so it's unlikely they'll be fixed in the near future but I can only hope some lessons will be learned
void moat
Having seen a video of the pointless destruction of an elementary school, I think things are peaking now, but yes, I agree it will simmer as things do.
"Riots have now spilled into Belgium 🇧🇪, with dozens of arrests being reported. France's Le Monde newspaper reports that 100 people were arrested in Belgium's Brussels on Friday, and another 30 arrests were made in Liege."
https://twitter.com/NMukherjee6/status/1675065893905383425?s=20
I tried to search for the press release in Le Monde to no avail.
orchid folio
Waking to this... So sad. To the French folks here. I'm so sorry this is happeni...
It is also being done by French people.
void moat
Yeah, just like the pointless riots in the states. Nothing new, but so sad.
molten iris
yep, it's a lot of self-harm and I've seen parallels drawn with riots in the USA : https://vxtwitter.com/Djame_/status/1674345275786240002
void moat
yep, it's a lot of self-harm and I've seen parallels drawn with riots in the USA...
I can't say I disagree with her, at all...
molten iris
"it's not ours, we don't own anything"
molten iris
"Riots have now spilled into Belgium 🇧🇪, with dozens of arrests being reported...
couldn't find anything about the arrests in Belgium in Le Monde, but belgian press does mention it : https://www.rtbf.be/article/100-arrestations-a-bruxelles-30-a-liege-rassemblement-de-jeunes-au-centre-ville-disperses-par-la-police-11221577
molten iris
It is also being done *by* French people.
I guess virtually all of the rioters hold french citizenship and were born in France, probably most of them have parents who were born in France too
I'm thinking of a song by popular songwriter Renaud called "Deuxième génération" about a 15 years old boy named Slimane in La Courneuve and the emptiness and despair in his life, with a chorus that goes "I've got nothing to win or lose, not even life, I only love death in that shitty life, I love what's broken and destroyed, I especially love everything that scares you, pain and night", it was released 40 years ago in 1983
(as usual with Renaud the song is full of argot and it's probably not easy to understand if you're not a native French speaker, automated translation struggles a lot too)
of course the point is not the song itself, but the fact that there was a song about these feelings in banlieue kids 40 years ago, and little seems to have changed
molten iris
you may come across this graph of people shot to death by French police https://vxtwitter.com/bastamedia_/status/1674080008187289608/photo/1 but the data and its interpretation has been questioned https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/de-basta-a-ligpn-et-liggn-le-difficile-decompte-des-deces-lies-aux-forces-de-lordre-20230701_3GCT6BQWK5ATZNURYF5X37573A/
sharp maple
video of police enforcing curfew
"rentre chez toi" go home
"il ny a rien a filmer" theres nothing to film here.
"pas la peine de me bousculer" There is no need to shove me
man the videos just keep pouring in, dropping them all here would be spammy
https://vxtwitter.com/afpfr/status/1675125330921619459 afp is reporting Macron is pushing his visit to Germany due to the riots
from sunday to tuesday
molten iris
video of police enforcing curfew
Aubervilliers isn't in the list of cities that imposed a curfew: https://images.bfmtv.com/y3Cf1t9QXZKHGhS3CkSuAHt2kwM=/0x0:1920x1080/1160x0/images/Au-moins-dix-villes-en-Ile-de-France-ont-mis-en-place-un-couvre-feu-ce-vendredi-soir-1666772.jpg
https://actu.fr/ile-de-france/aubervilliers_93001/on-n-est-jamais-en-colere-comme-il-faut-aubervilliers-face-a-une-nouvelle-nuit-d-emeutes_59800418.html this article says the mayor is considering curfew as an option, prompting ironic comments : "the guys are sawing poles with an angle grinder, do you think they'll care about a curfew?"
sharp maple
I see
is this the incident referred to in the article?
Au total, 12 bus ont été incendiés et entièrement brûlés dans ce parking annexe du réseau de transport francilien, situé non loin de la station de métro Fort d'Aubervilliers. L'incendie s'est déclenché aux alentours de 2 heures du matin.
I see fire and the video says it was filmed at 1:55 AM, so it seems a likely connect
molten iris
but I can totally understand the officers telling bystanders to go home at 2am in that context
location of the video : https://goo.gl/maps/ipE59gqRxi1XBAAN7
(extremely advanced osint skills of googling "coccinelle aubervilliers" 🙂 )
it doesn't look like the buses were parked there
orchid folio
How far is that farthest bus from the building?
molten iris
https://vxtwitter.com/PerkutMedia/status/1674930044127399937?s=19
this video seems to be from last night (fri->sat), the buses burned the night before (thu->fri), looks like the buses were actually behind the cyclist
sharp maple
unnecessary geolocation piggybacking off pierrot, but thats where the article is showing the burnt buses, the problem is chronolocation of the cop video
molten iris
probably "just" a car burning in front of the "coccinelle" shop
so I'd say it's very close geographically but it's not the same incident
sharp maple
that sounds right to me
https://vxtwitter.com/Valeurs/status/1674395837131005954
https://vxtwitter.com/retourdugoat1/status/1674585852318478338
"Mort aux porcs, mort au juifs" (Death to pigs, death to jews) yelled out once by a few kids
molten iris
I'd recommend caution when using Valeurs Actuelles as a source, it's very right-wing
sharp maple
Thanks for the warning 👍
molten iris
but the presence of antisemitism in some of the rioters doesn't come as a surprise either
maybe it's not the best comparison, but I'd say antisemitism in rioters is like nazism in the ukrainian army: it exists and it shouldn't be omitted or hidden, but it's not a central part of the story
brittle oak
but the presence of antisemitism in some of the rioters doesn't come as a surpri...
I mean, it’s riots in the banlieues, right?
It’s atrocious and unsurprising given the demographics (and polls on their opinions) within those communities.
sharp maple
I've only seen 2 incidents so far, and theyre worth sharing, but only the holocaust memorial one is truly noteworthy
EDIT: doesn't appear to be a memorial dedicated to the shoah specifically, but a "Mémorial des Martyrs de la Déportation" that honors all french people that have been deported by the germans to the holocaust.
brittle oak
I've only seen 2 incidents so far, and theyre worth sharing, but only the holoca...
Splitting hairs no?
The people deported were deported to be victims of the Holocaust.
sharp maple
Yes, but there is a difference to me between targetting a general memorial to all of the frenchmen that were deported, which is an attack on France's identity, vs targetting specifically jews.
https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/06/30/holocaust-memorial-in-paris-suburb-vandalized-during-anti-police-riots/ The jewish paper algemeiner reported that the "Another shoah" comment was sprayed on a nearby building rather than on the memorial itself. Most of the slogans sprayed on the memorial were anti-police. French flags were torn down
In other words, it becomes an issue of framing the situation. there is a case to be made that it was an attack on france's identity where the kids there didn't really take too much time to investigate what they were graffitiying rather than just another installation with a french flag
molten iris
The people deported were deported to be victims of the Holocaust.
I could agree it's splitting hairs, but the Holocaust is very specifically the genocide of Jews, Nazis (and local collaboration) in occupied France or elsewhere also deported other people they didn't like, eg members of the resistance, homosexuals, etc
brittle oak
It’s not just another installation, it’s not some blank concrete wall which has some unclear purpose.
brittle oak
I could agree it's splitting hairs, but the Holocaust is very specifically the g...
Okay, it’s a memorial to the victims of the concentration camps.
So instead of it being a memorial to 6 million people, it’s a memorial to about 19 and a half million.
And those groups are still covered as Holocaust victims.
sharp maple
I think its a memorial rather specifically to the french ones actually
but I havent looked at it in depth
brittle oak
You’re splitting hairs to find excuses though
sharp maple
Haha
sharp maple
I fully agree with you on this one
Might the slogan written on it have a double entendre to the rioters?
"To the martyrs of deportation and resistance" ?
molten iris
Don’t touch memorials to people murdered by the Nazis.
I think we'll all agree on this one, it's just a semantic point
brittle oak
72.500 of the 75.000 deported Jews were murdered. Of the 600.000 French STO slaves deported, I assume a number died (air raids, punishments, attempting escape), but I can’t find a number readily apparent.
So the martyrs of deportation are in most cases Jews.
sharp maple
I was specifically disputing the point that it was about the 19 million rather than a memorial for france's own jews that got deported, but I'd rather not continue a semantic conversation like this one thats rapidly getting out of hand
brittle oak
Yep, it’s conclusively a memorial to France’s Holocaust victims and France’s resistants, they graffitied it and anti-Semitic shit was scrawled nearby. That’s about it. Saying they attacked it for other reasons (it was flying their own national flag?) is besides the point.
sharp maple
molten iris
72.500 of the 75.000 deported Jews were murdered. Of the 600.000 French STO slav...
STO workers wouldn't generally be included in deportation figures, they were sent to work, not to concentration camps, actually (from the French Wikipedia article on STO) they were denied the right to be called "déportés"
brittle oak
The ones who were murdered in Germany were certainly martyrs of deportation.
Whether recognised or not.
molten iris
But anyway yeah, deportation martyrs are mostly Jews, and some members of the Resistance or other "enemies" of the nazis
brittle oak
Aka, Holocaust victims (and heroes of the resistance)
sharp maple
Rereading a bit, and I'm realizing how I'm coming across. In case this was not clear within the conversation, I am specifically not playing defense for the antisemitic comments displayed on the site of the memorial
brittle oak
It doesn’t matter what your cause is, don’t spray paint on a Holocaust memorial
sharp maple
Yes 👍
I was just raising the possibility that people did not know it was a memorial to the holocaust, and only saw a concrete wall that was easily graffitiable.
sharp maple
Especially as the majority of most of the comments written were anti-police, rather than the usual swastika garbage we find. I do not want to come across as dismissing of malevolent intent
hot kraken
In my experience from Germany, as soon as someone vandalises a Holocaust-related memorial, it's usually always a far-right/antisemitic background. Even if it is not obvious.
brittle oak
“Your honour, I didn’t know it was a holocaust memorial, I didn’t see the big letters on it.”
The blind graffiti artist strikes again!
molten iris
Especially as the majority of most of the comments written were anti-police, rat...
They wrote "on va vous faire une shoah" on that wall
hot kraken
In the context of antisemitic conspiracy theories, the police are often seen as the enforcers of whoever is in charge. Especially in the weird, murky areas, just short of neo-Nazism.
molten iris
Those who wrote that knew exactly what they were doing
brittle oak
https://vxtwitter.com/eurojewcong/status/1674498765707702295
That’s literally video of two women in the crowd trying to stop these fools
Because even they could see it was wrong
sharp maple
I think Jerusalem Post reported that as people trying to prevent the man from burning the french flag
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-748407
According to The Algemeiner, a protest last Thursday saw a man trying to set fire to a French flag that flew over the monument, but not before being pulled away by other protesters. The gathering that day saw an attendance of 6,000 people.
It could be a seperate incident though
brittle oak
It’s all the same incident lol. The graffiti, the trying to burn the French flag, it’s all desecrating the monument.
ebon elk
switching gears: any updates or news on curfews, transit shutdowns tonight? hopefully the trend of downward arrests/disturbances continues, if that indeed it the case
molten iris
Transit shutdowns continue tonight
sharp maple
5 additional units will be deployed in Marseille and Lyons
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/live/message/64a/059/b1a/37a/440/153/fa6/919.html
ebon elk
has the funeral already taken place?
molten iris
Yes, this afternoon
ebon elk
gotcha, cheers
brittle oak
Let me get a source one sec, read it on Twitter earlier before it completely stopped working for me.
ebon elk
oh twitter is basically useless today with 'rate limits' etc
molten iris
"Les obsèques avaient débuté dans la matinée au funérarium de Nanterre dans un climat de forte tension entre des groupes de jeunes et la presse, dont la présence n'était pas souhaitée par la famille, ont constaté des journalistes de l'AFP."
brittle oak
Yep, there.
molten iris
There were tension between the attendance and the press, apparently the family didn't want them there
ebon elk
I had read the family did not want journalists there
as long as the forte tension did not escalate into any acts of violence
molten iris
The article doesn't mention any of that
molten iris
Actually, the article quotes a witness describing the ceremony as peaceful ("très calme, dans le recueillement et sans débordement)
sharp maple
Are there any videos of the belgium protests that do not come from Jackson Hinkle retweets?
using tweetdeck and it feels like its only him and Jim Ferguson thats sharing them
rare quartz
https://vxtwitter.com/AFP/status/1675385174744518656?t=1IZHkw_AIal888RtziBSyQ&s=19
Any real footage of this?
molten iris
this seems to have been the most notable incident of the night
from what I read in the press, this night has otherwise been less violent than the previous one
sharp maple
This is the same mayor who wrote about putting barbed wire around the town hall a few days ago
void moat
...the new French resistance?
brittle oak
This is the same mayor who wrote about putting barbed wire around the town hall ...
Seems like a good idea given that the rioters attacked his town hall.
And obviously now after people attempted to assassinate him.
Rioters have stolen a Lanceur de balles de défense 40 (LBD-40) riot gun.
void moat
The number of small arms in use is increasing. IEDs too.
brittle oak
This is the same mayor who wrote about putting barbed wire around the town hall ...
Did a pretty effective job at stopping them, protecting public property from mindless and needless destruction.
Let's also not forget that the scum who did the assassination attempt at the mayor's house also injured his wife and children.
void moat
https://vxtwitter.com/ReaActuelle/status/1675455522818891777
What a good call to put the obstacles up. Win!
brittle oak
The LGBT bar "Happy Café" closed its doors hastily on Friday evening in Brest. He had been identified as a priority target by some rioters on social networks.
These messages, discovered on Friday June 30, 2023 by Erwan Kerinec, the owner of the "Happy Café", a bar on rue Jean-Jaurès popular with the gay, trans or queer community of Brest, are unequivocal: "Guys, priority Happy Coffee. We burn the PDs. Let them die in hell”. "Zero pity", "Explode the Happy coffee, we must respect our religion"...
Anti-semitism, homophobia, attacking a car with family (with a baby in it) for 20 minutes, stealing weaponry, attacking a mayor's home and injuring his wife and child.
Disgraceful behaviour, no excuses for this crap.
void moat
It seems like these riots are giving everyone with a dash of hate within them, a way to cause more suffering.
brittle oak
It seems like these riots are giving everyone with a dash of hate within them, a...
And exposing long standing hatreds by the communities within the banlieues.
I don't think it's surprising you're reading "Explode the Happy coffee, we must respect our religion."
And likewise long-standing antisemitism within that community.
Arson by the rioters put a man into a coma.
An armory in Marseilles has been broke into, four rifles were stolen.
ebon elk
An armory in Marseilles has been broke into, four rifles were stolen.
i did see somewhere, i think, that the rifles were recovered? tho can't be sure
brittle oak
i did see somewhere, i think, that the rifles were recovered? tho can't be sure
One person was arrested with one rifle.
ebon elk
One person was arrested with one rifle.
ah, well then.
brittle oak
A police officer was shot by a rioter overnight on Friday/Saurday, saved by his bulletproof vest.
molten iris
Arson by the rioters put a man into a coma.
haven't found anything about a coma after that fire
brittle oak
https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/auvergne-rhone-alpes/rhone/lyon/temoigna...
See here @molten iris
Listening only to his courage, he still went up to the 6th floor of the building "to see if other people needed help". The young man is a 29-year-old man, with a fierce desire to help anchored to the body. "Farès put his life in danger to help others, I don't know if he was aware of it". But, the toxic fumes got the better of its resistance. He inhaled too many fumes, his lungs couldn't resist. "When he came down, he suddenly collapsed," concludes Lazim.
Immediately taken care of by the emergency services, the young man was evacuated in a desperate state to the Edouard Herriot hospital by the SAMU. Conclusion: a life-threatening prognosis . Plunged into a coma since his act of bravery, Farès had still not regained consciousness this Saturday afternoon, according to his family present at his bedside. His vital prognosis is still engaged at the time of writing.
molten iris
ok I missed it
brittle oak
The twitter link is from the article above it.
And the article says the man is in a coma.
molten iris
"Son immédiate évacuation vers l'hôpital est malheureusement passée sous les radars. Au moment de l'incendie, le bilan fait état de "quatre blessés légers". Nulle mention du jeune homme évacué un peu plus tôt." that's why, initial press reports didn't mention it
drifting dagger
I dont understand why youre focussing on the gross but ultimately incidental and above all in this context irrelevant expressions of anti-semitism and homophobia. @brittle oak
This is exactly the type of frames the far right employ to further their own white suprematic agenda, and to obscure from the actual causes of these tragedies
brittle oak
I dont understand why youre focussing on the gross but ultimately incidental and...
Incidental, meaning people threatening a LGBT cafe on social media networks as part of the riots?
jagged holly
There is a nicer way to say exactly that same thing Sara
brittle oak
Please delete his allegations against me so.
He's accusing me of being far-right.
I very much am not.
drifting dagger
No intention of allegations
brittle oak
Edit your commentary so
Make it clear you aren't.
I take issue with people daubing their stupidity on Holocaust memorials and threatening gay people.
jagged holly
I do too! I hope no one here is arguing in favour of vandalizing holocaust memorials
brittle oak
One persons here response to an assassination attempt on a mayors family
which injured their wife and child
was to post something that suggested they had goaded the rioters
Literal victim blaming
I get some people here have an agenda of painting the rioters in a good light.
I'm providing context that bad shit is happening as part of these riots.
And yet again, I ask you to clarify your comment to ensure it's clear that you're not alleging I have some connection to the far right @drifting dagger
drifting dagger
I get some people here have an agenda of painting the rioters in a good light.
How is this different from you accusing me of you being far right?
brittle oak
How is this different from you accusing me of you being far right?
Clarify your comment
hot kraken
I do too! I hope no one here is arguing in favour of vandalizing holocaust memor...
There were some misunderstandings here in that direction where one person accidentally left the impression that they were denying the antisemitic nature of vandalising a Holocaust memorial. That is how this tangent on the antisemitic and anti-LGBT views of some of the rioters started.
jagged holly
Friends, if we can't engage in a discussion without accusing each other of being the bad guy, I suggest we all log off and take some time offline to cool off
sharp maple
What a good call to put the obstacles up. Win!
Cant believe I thought thoses measures were a bit excessive then
brittle oak
Please clarify your comment @drifting dagger
jagged holly
Or otherwise take the interpersonal discussiona to DMs and work them out there please, that's really not what this server is for
brittle oak
I'm not bothering to continue this conversation anymore, but I think you can understand that I'm not pleased with underhand suggestions that I am far-right/have an affinity with them. So I request they are edited to clarify.
drifting dagger
I am saying that these riots are the climax to decennia of oppresion and violence against mena people in western europe, and while attacks against both holocaust memorials and gaybars are absolutely disgusting, they are incidents in the context of why these riots take place, and focussing on them in favor of lets say the police brutality weve seen over the past days is problematic.
mental hinge
Sara, I understand how you feel, but please, solve this privately so the conversation doesn't derail any further from the purpose of the channel
brittle oak
So you've no intention of clarifying, perfect.
brittle oak
Your comment wasn't edited?
sullen coral
I'm not bothering to continue this conversation anymore, but I think you can und...
For what it's worth I did not read the comments as aimed at you.
jagged holly
Objet also added this in response #1124378020724088983 message
brittle oak
I am going to continue posting about the bad shit that the protestors get up to
sharp maple
I'd like to clarify once yet again, that I was not suggesting that defacing a holocaust memorial is any way less disrespectful than it is, and never argued that it wasnt otherwise.
Are you guys scouring twitter for riot info?
I've ended up taking my news from french OSINT discords like Little Think Tank
proven plaza
maybe a new thread about antisemitism in france would make sense? didnt see to much interest in that before the riots but it seems like it could defuse the situation here?
jagged holly
Ok great, so I think we all agree that this thread is for sharing news related to the events, and if anyone wants to take swings at anyone else, there is no place for that in this thread, and you should instead do that via DMs or otherwise alert a mod if a server rule is being broken
sharp maple
This has derailed really badly
jagged holly
maybe a new thread about antisemitism in france would make sense? didnt see to m...
Sure, we also have #far-right-monitoring for that sort of thing
brittle oak
If it happens during the riots it's also applicable here.
sharp maple
Does islamism count as far right?
proven plaza
maybe a antisemitism thread without the far-right context
molten iris
mmm that's probably not "far right" antisemitism
void moat
Cant believe I thought thoses measures were a bit excessive then
That's funny. I thought so too.
mental hinge
Does islamism count as far right?
I would say yes but it's not the focus of what far right researchers in the server look into
jagged holly
I would say yes but it's not the focus of what far right researchers in the serv...
Yes Michael C is the expert, please direct your questions to him
sharp maple
Whats the number of injured police officers now?
I think its climbed to 300+ but I dont know the exact number
brittle oak
Yes, especially when at least 3 rifles stolen in Marseille are now in the wind.
Plus various police equipment and weapons.
sharp maple
Thoses rifles are bean bag rifles arent they? Montreal protests dont usually turn into situations where police needs to shoot them, so I dont know how problematic sublethal arms are
molten iris
well, let's not be naive: there already are weapons in the banlieues (drug trafficking and other stuff)
sharp maple
They might be kept as trophies rather than weapons
molten iris
not sure 3 rifles will significantly change the situation
brittle oak
Thoses rifles are bean bag rifles arent they? Montreal protests dont usually tur...
No, the rifles are actual firearms stolen from a civilian gun shop.
void moat
not sure 3 rifles will significantly change the situation
It only takes one.
sullen coral
Thoses rifles are bean bag rifles arent they? Montreal protests dont usually tur...
There's probably a lot of US based research on sublethal (called in the US "less-than-lethal") weapons, police use them all the time here. Short answer: they can be lethal when struck in the head, you can lose an eye, etc
molten iris
there have been a few incidents where protesters lost an eye in France too
drifting dagger
jagged holly
Yeah I wrote my PhD comprehensive exam on protest policing. It was a 60 or so page literature review. And yes, tons of research put there on police forces killing and injuring protesters, and otherwise violating all sorts of human and civil rights in the name of "restoring the peace"
drifting dagger
I find the statement from the two major police unions quite worrying
sharp maple
Lots of fake info is getting thrown around, gov doc asking to not spread them
sullen coral
I find the statement from the two major police unions quite worrying
I only have the US to compare (possibly not helpful) but police unions here say really inflammatory stuff
jagged holly
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.barrons.com/amp/news/french-police-union-calls-...
Yeah there's no way to decouple that from racist language and thinking towards non-white folks
sharp maple
Oh this is the same document we linked before
I think vermin is too strong a word
Its nuisances
Or pests
jagged holly
Reminiscent of narratives to justify "tough on crime" approaches in Canada and the US that disproportionately target Black people
small maple
Nuisibles very much has connotations That can be translated to "pest"
sullen coral
I think vermin is too strong a word
You mean the French to English equivalent, right?
jagged holly
Ehhh what about "savage hordes" 
molten iris
"nuisible" does have connotations but not as much as "vermine", at least in French
sharp maple
Today police officers are at the front line because we are at war," the Alliance Police Nationale and UNSA Police unions said in a statement echoing far-right turns of phrase
"Now is not the time for industrial action but for fighting against these 'vermin'," the union statement released soon after said.
Oh theres another one apparently
jagged holly
Lol. I mean, forget the vermin/nuissane thing, "savage hordes" is right there in the first sentence
small maple
What the hell do the police, who are employees of the state think they are doing putting out statements "declaring war" anyway ???!!
brittle oak
The personal private home of the mayor of La Riche was attacked by rioters with arson.
jagged holly
It's unfortunately the sort of rhetoric and thinking thats been tried and tested in lots of places, including the US
sharp maple
They released a text right after this
"Explaining our previous document for dummys"
drifting dagger
Besides the vermin statement —almost seems same old same old— isn't the document also declaring a stance against the state in case the state doesn't comply with their perspective? My french isnt good enough to be sure
small maple
First translation that comes to mind for me, or appears in Google is definitely pests
It means unwanted and destructive fauna
brittle oak
jagged holly
I won't derail more but I can share the bibliography from my comprehensive exam on protest policing in #academia if anyone is interested in reading more about this topic
brittle oak
Grand mother of Nahel in a statement to BFMTV called for the riots to end.
molten iris
and I guess the government can't really react to that, at least not right now
they cannot afford being seen as not supporting the police
sharp maple
sharp maple
ALLIANCE
POLICE NATIONALE
US Police
ommuniqué
Text explanation for dummies
C PRESS
Paris, June 30, 2023
Alliance Police Nationale and UNSA Police protest against the distortion that certain politicians may make of the remarks used in their press release dated 30/06-2023 << Now that's enough... >>
Alliance Police Nationale and UNSA Police protest against the stigmatization suffered by police officers and their responsible and representative trade unions.
Alliance Police Nationale and UNSA Police tell these politicians that they are wrong
combat, and that these two organizations will no longer accept being insulted and slandered by
the type.
Some text explanations for evil spirits: “We are at war” is an image relating what our colleagues suffer every day in the field. We are facing an urban guerrilla and no longer facing urban violence, so it is against an urban war that our colleagues are fighting to win.
This colorful expression was used at the time for another subject, that of the Covid, by President Macron himself and few rose up!
When our organizations evoke resistance. We are talking about union resistance, union fights to come, resistance shown by our colleagues in the face of the wrath of those who want to sow chaos. Chaos wanted by the harmful, those who want to harm the values of our republic.
Alliance Police Nationale and UNSA Police will continue the fight to defend the values of the Republic, defend the institution and protect the police against the lightning of those who want to destroy them.
No offense to our slayers, our organizations will continue to fight for these values that are dear to us..
National offices Alliance Police Nationale and UNSA Police.
sharp maple
https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/culture/article/mort-de-nahel-macron-evoque-les-je...
was super funny ngl
brittle oak
In Vénissieux, a man has been arrested for noting down the personal car registrations of police officers. In addition, a group of men parked in a car near the police station, equipped with a baseball bat, tools such as screwdrivers and cans of gasoline, were also arrested
molten iris
there has been a reaction to an even more inflamatory post by a minor union, but I don't think Darmanin could confront Alliance at this moment (at least not publicly)
sharp maple
you'd think this conversation would have died by now
brittle oak
you'd think this conversation would have died by now
What conversation? I'm posting stories about the riots in the forum post for the riots?
sharp maple
no no, the whole video games thing
That video games are the cause of violence for youth
brittle oak
Okay, thanks for the clarification.
One of the four elected officials present was hit in the head by a stone and transported to the emergency room of the Montluçon hospital center.
Attacks on elected officials are common during this time, that's at least four cases I've posted today.
Six firefighters attacked in Mulhouse.
Reminds me of the quote "No one ever sang the song 'Fuck the Fire Department.'"
mental hinge
Macron blamed videogames in case anyone missed it
Kind of ironic considering he set up a Minecraft server for his campaign last year 😅
molten iris
the exact sentence was : "on a le sentiment parfois que certains d'entre eux vivent dans la rue les jeux vidéo qui les ont intoxiqués" => it sometimes feels like some of them are playing out the video games that have intoxicated them
sharp maple
molten iris
Reminds me of the quote "No one ever sang the song 'Fuck the Fire Department.'"
unfortunately firefighters getting attacked is not unheard of, even outside of crisis like this one
brittle oak
Common, but should always be called out.
sullen coral
I'm wondering how many incidents of police/first responders being injured is going to turn out to be true. In the incident I'm most familiar with, which is New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, there were tons of initial reports like this, and a non-significant percent turned out to be rumors etc
brittle oak
Can't be a rumour if there's a picture of it.
small maple
CNews is a pretty dodgy source so I'd be careful with it sometimes
small maple
It's inflamatory opinion news media that promulgates far right talking points
molten iris
cnews tends to be the french foxnews indeed
brittle oak
Can you show me the attack didn't happen?
small maple
Yeah that's the perfect description
drifting dagger
small maple
I'm not saying they didn't I'm just saying to be careful with CNews as a source
brittle oak
Otherwise, the fact the first source that comes up is the one I share, is irrelevant.
small maple
To take it with caution
brittle oak
I am aware.
sullen coral
I wasn't, so thank you.
brittle oak
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/30/france-racist-police-viole...
This forum is for news on the Nahel death/ensuing protests and riots
"Ok great, so I think we all agree that this thread is for sharing news related to the events"
That's an opinion article.
sharp maple
https://vxtwitter.com/Exactweet/status/1675529434575536128 looks like a good video to geolocate
drifting dagger
This forum is for news on the Nahel death/ensuing protests and riots
Seems to me like context is relevant. But if the mods agree ill keep that out
jagged holly
This forum is for news on the Nahel death/ensuing protests and riots
SaraL, it seems to me that you personally do not agree with how some media is covering these protests by focusing on systemic racism and police violence rather than indiviaul incidents of violence against police and others. But that framing is precisely the context that we need to have in this thread and in others in order to have an informed, intelligent discussion about this.
proven plaza
Seems to me like context is relevant. But if the mods agree ill keep that out
yep, if people want to understand the riots a little context for french society and its history of police brutality certainly helps
jagged holly
If that's your personal opinion that's perfectly fine. But stifling discussion, including links that provide important context for what's happening, is not going to prove your point.
sharp maple
"Ok great, so I think we all agree that this thread is for sharing news related ...
is it not? I was about to share this
https://vxtwitter.com/Q17NCSWIC/status/1675531026875990018
Which isn't related to Frances riots, but rather a protest in Italy calling for justice
brittle oak
Like stifling discussion on what Im posting.
If previous stuff is important as context
sharp maple
Just showing how theses protests went out of the national sphere of France and Belgium
brittle oak
I think the dark shit they get up to is also important as context
brittle oak
I couldn’t care less about how media covers it. But if we are going to talk about it, and we say we want full context, then the more news we post about the riots is better. Right?
drifting dagger
also some reports of theses riots spreading to switzerland
And bruxxeles. I wonder if it will hit the netherlands. Not unimaginable in Rotterdam
jagged holly
I couldn’t care less about how media covers it. But if we are going to talk abou...
I'll respond to this later in #academia to not derail the thread further. Im also trying to enjoy my Sunday evening.
That opinion piece explaining the context from @drifting dagger is fine. Thanks for sharing it.
brittle oak
I'll respond to this later in <#810331796960444466> to not derail the thread fur...
I'll be continuing to post incidents related to the riots in the French riots forum.
Otherwise, what is this forum post for.
sharp maple
https://vxtwitter.com/MorawieckiM/status/1674855346387537920 might be better suited for #far-right-monitoring
molten iris
I'd say it's a question of proportion, homophobic and antisemitic incidents should definitely be pointed out, but it should not be the only thing we read about (and so far this is not the case so I'd say we are OK) or it could give the impression that it's what these riots are about
sharp maple
prime minister of poland:
Our plan is Europe of Secure Borders - security and public order - these are the values from which everything else begins!
jagged holly
I'll be continuing to post incidents related to the riots in the French riots fo...
Ok, but please keep in mind that no one here is attacking you personally.
sharp maple
point out every single incident that happens
but also dont stray from what we see as the riots main goals and rage by derailing the conversation to something more comfortable
ebon elk
I think we need to screenshot tweets now yrah
ebon elk
I've seen this one since yesterday on intl far right telegram. Can't vouch for veracity, people involved but has definitely made the rounds
molten iris
from this article, the incident in Angers seem to be far right activists attacking protesters : https://www.liberation.fr/societe/police-justice/a-angers-les-fantasmes-miliciens-de-lextreme-droite-se-concretisent-20230630_6E5BEEJKAZH55F3ZJ2TBMW5U6E/
ebon elk
Ah yes ok I had seen that group name mentioned
sharp maple
https://www.jns.org/israel-news/antisemitism/23/7/2/299383/ if anyone cares about his opinion
drifting dagger
What an insane statement
ebon elk
Instrumentalizing antisemitism to use against Islam is a now classic trick
sharp maple
“In recent days, we have witnessed criminal assaults against Jewish targets. We strongly condemn these attacks and support the French government in its fight against antisemitism,” he added.
Oh I mean, I've read stories about jewish shopkeepers having their stores getting destroyed, but if it was targetted because of their ethnicity, I do not know
ebon elk
I had seen several far right channels sharing yesterday a video purporting to show a man with his hands cut off by rioters. Obviously not sharing. But I assume it is not correct, based on not seeing anyone else talking about it
ebon elk
> “In recent days, we have witnessed criminal assaults against Jewish targets. W...
Very possible
sharp maple
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-july-2-2023/ relating in fact to Israel's own fears of a repeat of the civil unrest in Lod and Ramla like there was during the Gaza war
Since Arab-Israelis historically have not joined into palestinian violence, but ethnic tensions have spiked massively since 2021.
The French riots are going to be studied by the police there
a gofundme for Nahel's mother
not a gofundme, but a donation basket rather, I'm not sure what we call theses things
molten iris
there's even more money for the cop who shot the kid: https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/mort-de-nahel-une-cagnotte-de-soutien-au-policier-auteur-du-tir-depasse-les-200-000-20230701
molten iris
ebon elk
In general, was the situation last night calmer than the last few? Relatively, at least.
sharp maple
far less videos on twitter found on my end as well
but that might be because of elon
void moat
Has anybody here compiled all the geolocations done by people on the riots?
molten iris
Has anybody here compiled all the geolocations done by people on the riots?
There would be so many dots on that map
https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/angers-49000/violences-impliquant-lextreme-droite-a-angers-enquete-ouverte-pour-attroupement-arme-cfacb06c-18d1-11ee-a274-cd245df77ae9 the police are going to investigate the case of the far right activists with baseball bats in Angers
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/carte-mort-de-nahel-visualisez-l-ampleur-des-emeutes-en-france-lors-de-cette-troisieme-nuit-de-violences_5921783.html France info compiled a non exhaustive map for just one night
See also : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_diagonal
molten iris
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/violences-urbaines-des-couvre-feux-dans-de-nombreuses-villes-partout-en-france_5926418.html a list of cities that enforce curfews tonight (some only for kids under 16 or 18)
most of these cities are suburban, the only big(-ish) city with a curfew (for unaccompanied minors) is Saint-Etienne
Paris, Marseille, Lyon and Toulouse shut down their public transport early tonight - all of it for Marseille, subways were still operating in the other three (presumably it's harder to burn an underground train than a bus or tram)
void moat
Wagner supporters in France
molten iris
(if anyone is wondering, NOB is Newell's Old Boys, a football club in Rosario, Argentina, this sticker probably has nothing to see with the others)
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/violences-apres-la-mort-de-nahel-l-hay-les-roses-charleville-mezieres-pontoise-quels-maires-ont-ete-directement-cibles-par-des-emeutiers_5925800.html a list of attacks on mayors
I really wonder who's showing support for Wagner these days in France
mental hinge
Wagner is recognised as a terrorist group in France too
molten iris
are these people against Putin? against Ukraine? against both? do they even know what they are referring to?
for all we know, these stickers could have been put there by a single person
maybe while we were busy looking for Prigo in SPB or Minsk, he was in Paris all along
molten iris
that would be even more unexpected than their march on Moscow
mild lance
Meanwhile, Russian propagandists call on using „sleeper agents“ to escalate the riots into a civil war, hoping that Europe will not have the capacity to help Ukraine then: https://t.me/ossinoe/10561
drifting dagger
This is straight out of fsb and surkovs playbook. Wild speculation but maybe fun to look into
drifting dagger
Ill be in paris next week, might check if the stickers are actually there atleast
void moat
CROSS POST: #far-right-monitoring message
No matter how we swing it, that's about a company-sized formation of rage.
https://t.me/ActiveClubXIV/5267 (Right Wing/Nationalist Source)
Moreover, there's a call. I mean, considering the situation, how many "Active Club France" are there — touting:
"Defend your neighborhood, defend your city
Defend your neighborhood, defend your town"
https://t.me/ActiveClubFrance/685 (Right Wing/Nationalist Source)
void moat
"The far right in the streets of Lyon tonight"
molten iris
they're shouting "bleu blanc rouge, la France aux Français", a typical far-right rallying chant
small maple
Lyon apparently has a significant far right activist movement
small maple
CROSS POST: https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/813082873862160384/1...
That's the place des terreaux I believe
The video
I lived in Lyon
Very conservative city
molten iris
depends on what you call conservative, the mayor (Doucet) is EELV (ecological/left party)
small maple
They usually put on a show like this when the time comes
molten iris
but yes there is a significant, well-known far right activist movement
small maple
depends on what you call conservative, the mayor (Doucet) is EELV (ecological/le...
True true
I'm not being very precise when I say this, I was sort of describing a general vibe
I think they were often LR / UMP beforehand, but they do have a significant far right, I've encountered them in certain districts, and LGBT people I know have often had bad encounters there
A gay friend of mine got beaten up once by skinheads on a night out
molten iris
before Doucet, the mayor was Collomb (former socialist who defected for Macron) for about 20 years
before that mostly classical right wing yes
small maple
My brother who loves rap music likes to point out that they haven't produced a single famous rapper, despite being almost the size of Marseille, for him this is a clear symptom of their conservative mentality :p (tangent )
molten iris
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/un-pompier-de-24-ans-meurt-dans-un-incendie-en-seine-saint-denis-sans-lien-avec-les-emeutes-selon-les-sapeurs-pompiers-de-paris_5927501.html a firefighter died tonight but the incident is not linked with the riots atm, the fire took place in an underground parking lot
mental hinge
depends on what you call conservative, the mayor (Doucet) is EELV (ecological/le...
You can still have a left leaning mayor being elected in a very conservative city. A good example of this you can find it in the Spanish city of Zamora, which has a very rural and conservative demographic but for their municipal elections they have been electing a hard leftists mayor for three times in a row now.
I ignore the politics of Lyon, but I bring this as an example that people may elect mayors of a different ideology if they perceive they do a good job
small maple
It's complicated, when I lived there just perceived the general vibe to be sort of culturally traditional, there's a pride there of being the "real France" with the long-standing culinary traditions for example, and a bit closed off, in opposition to the other large cities of Paris and Marseille, which are very multicultural and open.
mental hinge
Yep, I think that's conservative, by definition
molten iris
My brother who loves rap music likes to point out that they haven't produced a s...
some will say they'd prefer not producing a single famous rapper rather than producing Jul :p (and I'm conscious this sounds conservative!)
small maple
No matter what you think of Jul Bande organisée was a banger and no one with any sense can deny it (I suggest we take this to chitchat if we continue, feel bad for derailing :p)
small maple
molten iris
You can still have a left leaning mayor being elected in a very conservative cit...
conservatism takes many forms, in the first round of the presidential election Le Pen got 20.9% and Zemmour 11.1% in Marseille vs 9% for Le Pen and 7.7% for Zemmour in Lyon, yet I completely understand why Lyon would appear more "culturally conservative" than Marseille
small maple
I am interested in the profile of the policeman, it says in the article above that he is ex military, 38 years old, a father and was decorated for good service on several occasions.
I would be really interested in finding a social media profile of his if I could
Given his age, possible he is on facebook
molten iris
the far right activists in Lyon have been known for years, their association "Génération Identitaire" was banned but they kept operating and the bar "La Traboule" is known as their HQ https://www.rue89lyon.fr/2021/03/04/dissolution-locaux-identitaires-toujours-ouverts-lyon/
orchid folio
I am interested in the profile of the policeman, it says in the article above th...
Please check #rules number 6.
molten iris
I would be really interested in finding a social media profile of his if I could
the article says his name and address leaked on social networks, it's virtually certain all his social network accounts are deleted or closed by now
small maple
Apparently a guy with the same name as him has been receiving hundreds of threats https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/mort-de-nahel-un-homonyme-du-policier-mis-en-cause-porte-plainte-apres-avoir-recu-des-centaines-de-menaces-de-mort_5920421.html
edgy estuary
Hi all, I was wondering has anyone seen any French newsstories about violence against journalists during the riots?
molten iris
molten iris
https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/live/2023/07/03/emeutes-urbaines-en-direct-le-maire-de-l-hay-les-roses-lors-d-un-rassemblement-de-soutien-c-est-la-democratie-elle-meme-qui-est-attaquee_6179556_3224.html?#id-1025853 more on far right activists in Lyon
deepl translation:
Two armed far-right activists arrested near a hospital in Lyon
The case has police worried. Two individuals aged 33 and 39, considered to be close to Lyon's ultra-right movement, were arrested on Saturday evening, July 1, in possession of a weapon and 12-gauge ammunition, near the Femme Mère Enfant hospital in Bron. Aboard a Peugeot 308 equipped with false number plates, they caused a collision with a car occupied by a father and his 7-year-old daughter, at the entrance barrier to the hospital parking lot.
After the swift intervention of a Hospices civils des Lyon security guard, the police managed to arrest the passenger on the spot, and later found the driver of the car. In the back seat, police found a 12-gauge shotgun, loaded with three cartridges, and a box of 111 12-gauge cartridges. They found two category C and D shotguns and several boxes of ammunition at the home of the passenger, in the Ain region, who is known for provoking discrimination and damaging property, and is prohibited from carrying weapons.
One stated that he had been intoxicated, with no violent intent. The other explained to police that it was a question of " getting blacks and Arabs ", in response to the riots. The two individuals were referred to the public prosecutor's office, with the opening of a criminal investigation for possession of weapons, with a requisition for a committal order. For the investigators, the circumstances are both unclear and worrying, in a context of heightened tensions. On Sunday evening, a group of around a hundred activists gathered behind Lyon's city hall. After posting photos on social networks, they were quickly dispersed by the police.
molten iris
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/direct-mort-de-nahel-emmanuel-macron-recoit-les-maires-de-220-communes-apres-une-soiree-plus-calme-sur-le-front-des-violences_5929571.html the trend continues, fewer incidents than the previous night
Not quite "back to normal" yet, but still, so much for the "fall of France"
molten iris
https://vxtwitter.com/index_ngo/status/1675938622078349315 I need to see the full sequence, apparently France 2's news bulletin used the work of INDEX on the audio but showed subtitles that were not in line with either the witnesses testimony or the conclusions of INDEX (well, they basically said they couldn't conclude for now)
void moat
https://vxtwitter.com/index_ngo/status/1675938622078349315 I need to see the ful...
Is France 2 affiliated with a movement left/right/nationalist etc?
brittle oak
Is France 2 affiliated with a movement left/right/nationalist etc?
France 2 is one of France’s public broadcasting channels.
void moat
France 2 is one of France’s public broadcasting channels.
Do they politically lean in a certain way?
It seems sloppy to make media production this way. Cherry picking and all.
brittle oak
Do they politically lean in a certain way?
I think it’s hard to say r.e. European public broadcasters, certainly not openly political, but you often have allegations of being too likely to side with the government. But in a lot of cases, and in France’s case, the government involvement is at arms length.
void moat
I think it’s hard to say r.e. European public broadcasters, certainly not openly...
I see. So whatever media production sloppiness we see is likely in house sloppiness, personality driven, as opposed to some larger, state-affiliated messaging scheme.
mental hinge
Yep, think of it as France's equivalent of the BBC/RAI/TVE/etc, it's government funded but it's no voice of the government, it's meant to have a centrist/neutral status. There are going to be some issues and biases every now and then but it's rather down to individual/organizational elements rather than, say, government intervention
I think PBS has that role in the US? I never had it clear tbh
void moat
I was going to mention them. Yes indeed.
molten iris
https://vxtwitter.com/infofrance2/status/1676209426452078594 they did take a few seconds today to say the subtitles represented the police's version, not the ngo's
https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/030723/mort-de-nahel-les-conclusions-trop-rapides-de-l-emission-telematin-propos-de-l-enquete-igpn but it doesn't look like either the IGPN or INDEX actually have a conclusive "version"
void moat
Hi all, I was wondering has anyone seen any French newsstories about violence ag...
Can you guys help Georgie out?
void moat
Hi all, I was wondering has anyone seen any French newsstories about violence ag...
I personally have not, and I've been actively watching what I have access to. Have you?
orchid folio
Specifically French? the Figaro one that was the first post after her request.
small maple
Do they politically lean in a certain way?
They're pretty balanced, quite straight news, well rated by fact checking orgs
void moat
Friend of mine showed me a video of Muslims France calling for an Islamic rule of France, so a Muslim president as justice or payback for all France has done. Would mean implementation of sharia law
Mainly due to police officer shooting Algerian Muslim ^
sullen coral
Friend of mine showed me a video of Muslims France calling for an Islamic rule o...
Hi, we can't rely on stuff like "my friend showed me", because we can't see for ourselves to assess the video. If you have a link to the video you can post it, but we can't really work with any of this
jagged holly
Hi, we can't rely on stuff like "my friend showed me", because we can't see for ...
Yes please! Absolutely no room for this in this server. Either link to the evidence to support your claim, or don't make the claim.
molten iris
what the hell "Muslims France" even is
to me it just sounds like something accelerationists of any side would like to propagate
ebon elk
yeah that's a vid I've seen on far-right telegram with no context or supporting information so it should be treated not particularly seriously until there's something to back it up
void moat
Let's never forget how many trolls there are here, working hard to undermine progress and serious inquiry.
brittle oak
Likely replica/airsoft "firearms" but certainly very dangerous to be introducing into the situation.
molten iris
https://www.marianne.net/societe/police-et-justice/un-tir-de-lbd-a-marseille-a-lorigine-dun-troisieme-mort-durant-les-emeutes a man died in Marseille, apparently after being hit in a chest by a "sublethal" weapon while he was riding a scooter, they list him as the third riot-related death
I guess the other two are the man who was killed by a stray bullet on his balcony in Cayenne and the kid who fell to his death in a shopping mall (but it's still unclear this one is actually related to the riots : https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/faits-divers-justice/un-jeune-de-19-ans-meurt-apres-avoir-chute-du-toit-d-un-supermarche-au-petit-quevilly-8659026)
brittle oak
And the firefighter that died, right?
past sage
I guess the other two are the man who was killed by a stray bullet on his balcon...
« The authorities are not currently making a link with urban violence related to Nahel's death. » so apparently unrelated
molten iris
And the firefighter that died, right?
the firefighter's death was apparently not connected to the riots either https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/un-pompier-de-24-ans-meurt-dans-un-incendie-en-seine-saint-denis-sans-lien-avec-les-emeutes-selon-les-sapeurs-pompiers-de-paris_5927501.html
sharp maple
Let's never forget how many trolls there are here, working hard to undermine pro...
We have trolls?
past sage
And the firefighter that died, right?
He likely died of a cardiac arrest (and might’ve been first hurt by an explosion). Pretty unsure about the last one ; investigation’s ongoing
https://www.midilibre.fr/2023/07/03/pompier-mort-dans-un-parking-sous-terrain-bidon-dessence-retrouve-circonstances-du-drame-le-point-sur-lenquete-11317802.php
molten iris
Any link with the riots?
According to a police source, no link has yet been established between the fire on which this firefighter was responding and the urban violence that has been unresting many French towns since the death last Tuesday in Nanterre (Hauts-de-Seine) of 17-year-old Nahel, killed by a police officer. "We shouldn't make any links with the urban violence until we know for sure. We have to be careful, we know absolutely nothing" about the circumstances of the fire, said this source. "That would be going too far. A priori that's not the case, it's not a neighborhood affected by urban violence", agreed another source.
I can't access the Marianne article behind the paywall, so I can't tell who the other two are for them
past sage
https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/faits-divers-justice/grenoble-le-pillage-du-centre-ville-etait-organise-selon-des-temoins-4046354
TL;DR at least 40 shops impacted by thieves in the center town, on Friday. Of course, a lot of showcases have been damaged.
« Jewelry, clothing and shoes, mobile telephony, etc. The testimonies converge: the looting had been prepared in advance. »
molten iris
https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/mort-dun-pompier-intervenant-sur-un-incen...
just judging by the picture this indeed doesn't look like the typical suburban, "grands ensembles" rioting neighborhood (obviously not a proof it's not connected, but a clue)
(no need to geolocate, the address is known : 87 rue du Landry, St Denis)
void moat
May I ask, who are the "BRAV M."
small maple
May I ask, who are the "BRAV M."
They are a police division that were created around the time of the Yellow Jacket protests, they are given motorbikes to make them mobile during protests and batons. They are controversial and very criticized as being particularly violent, there have been petitions to parliament to have them disbanded. They are seen as successors to the infamous "Voltigeurs" which were created just after the May 68 protests who inspired particular fear because they would hit people with batons as they drove past. The voltigeurs were dissolved after they killed the student Malik Oussekine. In contrast to the voltigeurs, the Brav-M are not allowed to hit people while they are driving and have to dismount before they engage. It is somewhat believed that they were created to play on the fear that the voltigeurs inspired, in any case the psychological effect was real, as during the Yellow Jacket protests (I went to them to observe) I saw that when they appeared people were all shocked and commonly referred to them as "voltigeurs".
void moat
Social media is being blocked?
small maple
what do you mean ?
orchid folio
Social media is being blocked?
Can you elaborate? Do you have a source?
brittle oak
Macron said that he doesn't rule out the French state blocking social media in a crisis.
void moat
They are a police division that were created around the time of the Yellow Jacke...
Thank you.
"The BRAV M would be moving in the streets of Paris
Who has info!?
brittle oak
Can't see any reporting on it being blocked.
void moat
https://www.bfmtv.com/tech/actualites/reseaux-sociaux/en-cas-de-crise-emmanuel-m...
Thank you.
orchid folio
They discussed the possibility, but it should not be decided in the heat of the moment. So no.
acoustic night
Social media is being blocked?
Not in general I think, but considering one guy got 18 months in prison for doxing the muderer to like 50 people, there is probably a lot of aggressive scrubbing going on
void moat
"French Senate on Tuesday introduced a bill that says social media companies will have to deliver identity information of platform users and handle removal or blocking requests by the French government in two hours at most in cases of highly sensitive content spreading and encouraging "violence."
With the new bill, Paris will have the power to get the personal data of social platform users "manifestly inciting riots, violence against persons vested with public authority, damage to public buildings or installations or intrusion into them" in times of riots or social movements "that undermine public order or public security.""
"Negotiations on the bill in the Senate will continue on July 5, 6 and 7."
void moat
They discussed the possibility, but it should not be decided in the heat of the ...
My understanding is that they leveraged their control over social media during the riots of the early 2000s too. When I think of how fast technology advances, as do users, I think this will cause more harm than good, because like most governments, they are stuck in the past while "the people" live in the present. Just my observation, from a civil liberties point of view.
orchid folio
My understanding is that they leveraged their control over social media during t...
Perhaps it would be better to lead with the link, not a question.
acoustic night
Guy getting 18 months in jail for two snapchat posts within a day of making it: https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/mort-de-nahel-un-homme-condamne-pour-avoir-devoile-des-informations-sur-le-policier-sur-snapchat_AN-202306290859.html
void moat
Guy getting 18 months in jail for two snapchat posts within a day of making it: ...
"A 20-year-old Internet user posted on Snapchat the name and city of the police officer who shot Nahel. He was tried in immediate appearance on Thursday.
Social networks are not a lawless zone. This Thursday, a 20-year-old Internet user was heard in immediate appearance by the courts. He was accused of having shared on Snapchat the contact details of the police officer implicated in the death of Nahel , hit by a fatal shot during a traffic check.
In question, two stories shared on Wednesday evening. "See you all at 11:30 p.m. avenue Pablo Picasso" in a premiere. And, in a second, a photo of a post-it on which was written the identity and the city where the policeman lives, with the following comment: "it is the name of the city or the FDP that killed our brother lives". Result: he was sentenced to 18 months in prison including 12 months of probation for 2 years."
molten iris
(in case you wonder, FDP stands for "fils de pute")
void moat
(in case you wonder, FDP stands for "fils de pute")
ouch!
molten iris
My understanding is that they leveraged their control over social media during t...
I don't think social networks (as we know them today) were relevant in these events, Facebook was not really a thing in France in 2005
sure we had MSN or Yahoo messenger or IRC for really geeky people, but it's not the same scale
void moat
sure we had MSN or Yahoo messenger or IRC for really geeky people, but it's not ...
Fuel to the fire.
small maple
Somebody reporting on the current courtroom cases pursued against people charged in Marseille, I didn't know the account previously, at a glance it seems okay.
It sounds like the judgements pronounced are unusually expeditive and harsh
molten iris
heard this morning France Info (public live news radio network) listing the man in Marseille as the second (not third) riots related death
past sage
https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2023/07/05/emeutes-urbaines-l-igpn-saisie-apres-une-mort-suspecte-en-marge-des-violences-a-marseille_6180556_3224.html
Apparently he has been hit by a flashball while driving a scooter. IGPN (police’s police) opened an investigation
molten iris
https://twitter.com/canardenchaine/status/1676508790772867072 according to Le Canard enchaîné, the attack on the mayor of L'Haÿ-les-Roses looked like a "professional" job, and investigators are considering it could a revenge by drug dealers rather than an improvised action coming from rioters
molten iris
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanterre/emeutes-apres-la-mort-de-nahel-la-circulation-des-bus-et-tramways-pourra-reprendre-normalement-partout-en-france-mercredi-soir-annonce-le-ministre-des-transports_5932004.html a step towards "back to normal" : buses and trams should operate tonight
void moat
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/adolescent-tue-par-un-policier-a-nanter...
Do you think french society is ready for back to normal. Has the situation calmed at all?
molten iris
most of french society just wants to go on with their life
the inherent causes are still there, but they've been there for decades
void moat
most of french society just wants to go on with their life
I see
sharp maple
https://vxtwitter.com/CartesDuMonde/status/1675901853417058309 MapoftheWorld listing what the foreign press wrote, quite interesting
void moat
Twitter
void moat
is twitter fixed?
Apparently.
molten iris
it's still Elon-owned, there's no immediate fix for that
but integration and reading without an account seem to work, for now
https://www.liberation.fr/politique/couper-les-reseaux-sociaux-lelysee-oblige-de-temperer-macron-20230705_OSAMYZ4FDVGWBPKHV27ST46BSE/ blocking social networks during a crisis: Macron's staff backpedaled and downtoned the president's stance
molten iris
https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/les-dernieres-images-filmees-par-mohamed-b-tue-en-marge-des-emeutes-a-marseille_VN-202307050546.html the man who was killed in Marseille was apparently not taking part in the riot but filming an arrest, the last video he took was published by BFMTV
void moat
https://www2.assemblee-nationale.fr/scrutins/detail/(legislature)/16/(num)/2141
"After the Senate, the National Assembly adopted article 3 of the Justice bill which authorizes the authorities to remotely activate the cameras and microphones of telephones or other connected devices without the knowledge of the persons concerned. 80 votes for, 24 against. ( ballot )"
molten iris
that vote isn't linked to the riots, the law passed the upper house (Sénat) a month ago https://www.publicsenat.fr/actualites/politique/justice-le-senat-autorise-lactivation-a-distance-des-telephones-portables-pour-certaines-enquetes
void moat
So this is an extension to current law?
molten iris
it's a new law, but that's been in the works (and controversial) well before the riots started
void moat
it's a new law, but that's been in the works (and controversial) well before the...
It's good timing on the part of the government, I'd say.
I can't believe such methods are law in "democratic" societies. All I know, what happens in France tends to happen in the US, or some form therein. Thanks for the update.
sharp maple
molten iris
It's good timing on the part of the government, I'd say.
I can't believe such m...
the only "good timing" part is there's something else in the news so there is not as much controversy as there could have been, but this law was in the plans for months now and it was absolutely certain it would pass since the right wing parties supported it. it's still not entirely clear to me what the law changes exactly, to remotely activate a microphone or camera you need some kind of backdoor or trojan, maybe it's legalizing the use of something like Pegasus instead of planting a tracker or a microphone, but I suppose the details are classified
void moat
the only "good timing" part is there's something else in the news so there is no...
Believe me when I say. "Good timing" is sarcasm of the highest order.
molten iris
riots themselves have all but disappeared from the headlines, still a few articles about the causes and consequences
much to the dismay of some alt-right propagandists, it looks like France has not fallen after all
proven plaza
so, no police reforms in sight?
molten iris
I certainly hope lessons will be learned, but there is nothing "in sight" atm, this morning Laurent Nuñez (head of the Paris police) said there was no institutional racism in the police, that they only discriminate against delinquents... the usual denial https://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-radio/8h30-fauvelle-dely/violences-urbaines-racisme-dans-la-police-ce-qu-il-faut-retenir-de-l-interview-de-laurent-nunez-sur-franceinfo_5904971.html
molten iris
cover of today's Le Monde
void moat
More police violence in France
Content Warning: Police Violence https://t.me/vorposte/43551
sharp maple
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-749141 slightly editorialized title, but JPost expresses annoyance at the fact that none of the anti-jewish hate speech and violence that occured during the riots were covered by anything but jewish or israeli papers
If you rely on newspapers like the New York Times or the Guardian, or the websites of CNN or the BBC for the entirety of your information about the riots in France – even if you combine all four aforementioned sources to make sure you get a comprehensive picture – you will be completely oblivious about the incident, and anyone mentioning antisemitic riots will sound like a paranoiac to you.
molten iris
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-749141 slightly editorialized title, but J...
it is an opinion column, not actually a JPost article, but it raises a valid point
in the French speaking press, it was not completely left out, but often only mentioned, very few articles specifically about this incident: this one in Marianne https://www.marianne.net/societe/police-et-justice/memorial-de-la-deportation-tague-slogans-antisemites-le-desarroi-des-juifs-francais-en-marge-des-emeutes, this one in a local press outlet because the monument was designed by a local artist: https://www.sudouest.fr/pyrenees-atlantiques/biarritz/nanterre-le-monument-cree-par-le-basque-eric-couprie-vandalise-apres-la-mort-de-nahel-15775741.php
apart from that, the only articles I found were either in jewish outlet, or, ironically, in far-right outlets (valeurs actuelles, fdesouche)
void moat
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/08/france-protesters-plan-marches-pol...
Unbelievably sad. Thank you for the insight. As a US American, I find it hard to envision France like this. Neivity, I suppose. We're taught from a young age that without France there would be no USA, and so freedom and democracy here is a reflection of French ideals too.
"The annual march in memory of Adama Traoré, a 24-year-old black man who died in police custody in 2016, was to have been held in the Val-d’Oise, north-west of Paris, but was banned by the authorities, a decision upheld after a court appeal.
The organisers announced it would take place instead at Place de la République in the capital. However, on Saturday morning the Paris police prefecture banned the second march saying it had not been given sufficient notice to mobilise enough officers to ensure it passed off peacefully."
proven plaza
Unbelievably sad. Thank you for the insight. As a US American, I find it hard t...
i suppose french colonialism in north africa isnt taught much? it helps understanding the current situation
acoustic night
@sharp maple I think you made a good case for why antisemitism might even have been secondary (behind anti-french sentiment) in the attack of the memorial itself, and clearly the start of the riots had nothing to do with jews so the antisemitism isn't able to explain most important evens in the story, and thus it is dropped for space. No real mystery here.
Honestly, I'm not sure the attack against the monument is even able to explain the opinion piece itself, which seems most concerned with scoring points in a culture war against liberal newspapers, but maybe that's just my overly quick reading and prejudice based on where this guys writes.
sharp maple
I'd like to table that particular discussion, the specific motives dont matter as much as the actions and repercussions of the event do
void moat
i suppose french colonialism in north africa isnt taught much? it helps understa...
In the US, heck no. That would mean having to speak about our own past, which is taboo in this nation. But on a good not, anyone who furthers their education here is sure to broaden their understanding of our global history, imperialism, colonialism, etc. And some people are just too curious and distrusting of the US education system to sit idle while having half truths and lies shoved down their throat, and so they search for truths on their own in books.
proven plaza
i suppose french colonialism in north africa isnt taught much? it helps understa...
recommendation for cinephiles, quite the experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd5Pz8KJeU4
https://www.colesmithey.com/capsules/2016/08/the-battle-of-algiers.html
void moat
recommendation for cinephiles, quite the experience. https://www.youtube.com/wat...
Nice! I recently saw this a few weeks back, and boy oh boy was it a good film. There was so much to glean from regarding insurgencies and counterinsurgencies, and the heartfelt sentiments of all concerned. Good recommendation!
proven plaza
indeed, BFI (+ Kael) summarize the essence & impact of the movie well:
“Probably the only film that has ever made middle-class audiences believe in the necessity of bombing innocent people – perhaps because Pontecorvo made it a tragic necessity.”
Pauline Kael, New Yorker, 1973One of the cinema’s great political masterpieces, as important as Eisenstein’s Battleship Potemkin 40 years earlier, The Battle of Algiers charts the history of Algeria’s national liberation movement from its inception in 1954 to the country’s independence in 1962.
The film is no dry, detached documentary, however much the grainy black-and-white cinematography makes it look like a newsreel. Individual set-pieces are as gripping as any ever filmed, with Gillo Pontecorvo’s determination to give both sides a fair hearing leading to constant moral ambiguity when both sides commit tit-for-tat atrocities. Although there’s no doubt where the film itself stands (it was independent Algeria’s first production), the most richly drawn character is the French Colonel Mathieu (Jean Martin), aware that he’s on history’s losing side but still required to go through the motions.
Initially banned in France, Pontecorvo’s film has been used as a morale-booster by both the Black Panther movement and the 2010 Algerian World Cup team.
Films directly influenced by The Battle for Algiers include Z (1969), Michael Collins (1995) and Munich (2005). Pontecorvo went on to make Queimada! (1969), about a fictional Caribbean insurrection.
(https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b6f24787d)
void moat
More police violence in France
Content Warning: Police Violence https://t.me/vo...
Lmfaoo that push on the lady 💀
Seems like some police officers are just looking for any reason to be aggressive, but that does not mean every French policeman is like thins
void moat
Lmfaoo that push on the lady 💀
I wouldn't call it a laughing matter, but then again, I'm not a fan of police beating on the people they're called to protect. Cops are like the organization they serve, they emulate the culture of their group. Institutional practices and culture, good or bad, feeds the mindset and actions of the ranks. No, definitley no laughing matter.