AI Got overtuned and needs a tonedown

[lusty tusk]

First of all, no, "get good" doesn't apply here. The ai is and was fundamentally broken before, buffing it now just exxagerates it's issues.

💡 What is motivating this suggestion : AI attempts shooting people through walls, perfectly tracking them and then prefiring them in the hands the nanosecond any pixel of their body is visible.

This is not a very big issue, for bots like raiders and prisoners, as their guns suck in most cases, but this issue is exxagerated extremely with bosses and marines.

Attached below, is a clip of me "fighting" the baron. Since all bots are calculated and directed via the server, they all have what is essentially 0 ping, meaning that the bots not only have the advantage of literal aimbot, but their reaction time is also literally inhuman, they shoot you the moment any part of you is visible to them, so the baron quadruple headshot me before i could even see his eyes.

💡 What is your suggestion :

This can be fixed in many ways. The most organic and difficult of which is to render bots as human like as possible, which is no doubt constantly in the works by the developers, but AI work is extremely difficult and fixing them to behave properly may take months or even another year of dedicated AI work, so, in the meantime -

-Give all bots a 0,3/0,4 second shooting delay. Once they spot you, they should mimic human reaction time + ping by just staring at you for a bit, sort of like they used to.

or alternatively

-Revert the changes you have made currently. Yes, reverting changes sucks as it is considered a waste of effort, but changes to impact the "difficulty" of AI should not be made untill that AI is "not bullshit and inhumanly able" to begin with.

Before anyone comes in here with "bro you just wanna remove bots from the game {skull emoji} fr fr no cappage"

No, i don't, bots aren't bad because they're too powerful, but because the way they achieve their power isn't through strategy or good pathfinding or good...anything, they are strong because they currently realistically simulate cheaters with walls and aimbot.

[tall obsidian]

I concur, some of the bots quite literally snap into place and down you within less than second (not just the baron).

Either OP's suggestion would suffice or remove the bots ability to headshot, or something more controversial, reduce the headshot damage multiplier.

[lusty tusk]

on a sidenote, yes, this game is "PVPVE"

But at the same time, I do not play it to fight basic bitch raiders, maybe this is a crazy concept, but i play the game either for the PVP or the loot, the lowly raiders that wear a sack bag and a leather jerkin are not of interest to me, i kill them just for the exp.

They should not provide the same threat as a raider boss or real player, the whole reason Tarkov, the grandfather of Exfil shooters, has scavs (the easy ai) is to facilitate pvp and add a layer of tactical decision making.

"Do i rush into the area filled with AI and make a bunch of noise that the players can hear because the AI shot their guns, or do I go the quiet yet longer/more exposed route."

This feels fundamentally misunderstood in marauders, basic AI is everywhere, which is good for pushing people into pvp, but now they're trying to make it lethal AND it is plastered practically everywhere, meaning there is no real tactical choice of avoiding it, you just gotta hope they don't see you to play "sneaky", which they will because they're on every POI and area/hallway you want to go to.

[upbeat marlin]

I agree npcs A.I. need an aritifial delay timer before they start shooting. Also with the recent bot overtune they also dodge bullets like Neo in the Matrix... literally

[zenith valley]

The idea that bots could have realistic human reaction times is something I could support, however I find that some bots currently seem to take time to line up shots before they start shooting and some don't fire as often or quickly as they could. This may be something that simply needs more adjustments.

I've played a fair bit in the last couple days and I haven't had any major issues with most bots reacting too quickly. It has happened a few times, but in most cases it does not. Usually if I'm using cover effectively to break line of sight the bots won't quickly shoot the next time they see me and I usually have time to fire a few shots and get to cover when I see them.

I think the bot changes will require some players to change their usual play style. They will have to be a bit more careful, use cover more often, break line of sight frequently, and stop standing still while mag dumping bots. I made some adjustments to how I was fighting bots and it's generally been working.

I believe that the bots in this game should generally be quite dangerous, they should be challenging enough that we can't just stomp around in the open and easily defeat them with little to no concern. I think we're at the point in the development cycle where the developers will probably keep making adjustments to he AI until they get it just right. Of course that perfect "very challenging but not punishing" balance can be hard to achieve so we have to be patient as the balance keeps shifting back and forth.

[lusty tusk]

Well again, if we want ALL bots to be challenging to kill, then they should be restricted to spawning in certain areas/ only some hallways. As of right now, every map has bots everywhere except for the immediate area around airlocks.

Because of that, fighting them is not a conscious tactical decision, and so they shouldn't be difficult to kill as that would detract from the pvp experience since everyone will have to deal with annoying AI that deals half your hp in damage before engaging real players, which is simply frustrating, especially when it wasn't the player's mismanaged decision that lead to the fight with the AI, but just the fact that they spawn everywhere and the fight is unavoidable

[zenith valley]

Yeah, I definitely would like to see the respawn locations to be changed. It's really unfair for them to spawn in right behind you, or in an area with zero access points that you've just cleared.

I have made suggestions about changes in another thread. Basically my idea is that any respawns should be from logical locations. Have them "breach" into breach points. Have them enter thruogh airlocks. Have them come in through hallways or doorways, kind of like what you're suggesting, that players can't access. Then give them a location to move toward, possibly moving in pairs, trios, or groups of 4, and if they see or hear players while enroute to their destination they can react appropriately and alter course. No more space magic respawns from thin air.

[stark willow]

I take more damage from bots than actual Marauders at this point, tbh.

[wind plume]

the issue is "make AI harder" Always transaltes to "make their aim bot more precise"