#Make combat and movement smoother and crispier

90 messages Ā· Page 1 of 1 (latest)

keen gull
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šŸ’” What is motivating this suggestion?

Both are alright, but should be improved if you want more player retention and wider audience. Running around feels like skating on oil, it also feels like you're glued to the ground by some strange force other than gravity. Vaulting, jumping have been discussed already. Leaning gets stuck on its own, maybe even by design, weird stuff happening with walls while shooting. Responsiveness while running is off, you can't tell where you will stop and what to expect. You need to play a lot to get used to the movement. It is a bad thing for new players to have to relearn walking, shooting, it is unpleasant and unnecessary.

Players who give more importance to the feeling and intuitiveness of the combat over the "meta" game of tactics, looting and surviving, will prefer shooters like Halo Infinite, Titanfall 2, Shatterline, DOOM, COD series, Fortnite, Rainbow 6 and even Apex. Because in Marauders it overall sucks in comparison, even if I enjoy some aspects more.

šŸ’” Proposal:

Study and apply what these games do right, by playing and analyzing all the nuances. How come a person who has never played these games can grab them for the first time and do more than alright, whereas if you play Marauders for the first time you're going to lose 80% of the fights until you get used to everything. There's a difference between learning how to be good at a game and learning how to play it. The latter should not take hundreds of hours, only a few, especially for those who are familiar with shooters.

It could be related to the sounds of your own movement, could be related to camera bobs, body animations while moving; or mannequinlike impression the models give; or the speed of leaning; impression of the weight of the models; jump gravity; animations and timing of moving, turning, leaning, aiming; recoil control intuitiveness; juicy killing animations and sounds(! might be the most important).

glass void
# keen gull šŸ’” What is motivating this suggestion? Both are alright, but should be improved...

Movement does need working canā€™t lie especially crouch walking where like you said it feels youā€™re being pulled by something. I disagree with the majority of the game suggestions you gave though as theyā€™re fast paced shooters Fortnite may be the only good example because it is under the ā€˜survivalā€™ genre the other games like I said are fast paced FPS so I wouldnā€™t apply those movements to a game like this

keen gull
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The real story: I got this game to 2 of my friends. Both left after first few hours. We have played all kinds of shooters and for long periods of time(, especially Hunt which I did not add to the list because its combat and movement are also unintuitive.) This has never happened before. After having some discussions about the game, I came into conclusion that the overall combat is off and they don't want to learn from scratch, especially when there's not enough meta-incentive yet. It is not satisfying enough, and it is not intuitive enough. Or maybe we can go further and say it is not truly fun (enough). It is a confusing mess most of the time, trying to hit shots, while trying to understand what is actually happening, where the enemy is, did you hit or not, is the enemy dead or not. After the last bullet sponge updates it has become even less satisfying to hit shots, because they don't matter, either you headshot or you die. Well unless your opponent misses everything or does not get time to shoot. Bear with this until you get stuck in walls or can't jump over a little bump in an important moment.

keen gull
keen gull
glass void
# keen gull Warzone has BR elements and it is also fast paced. Haven't tried it yet, maybe i...

The suggestion of what games they should look at. Marauders is a hardcore survival game you gave cod as an example, they already nerfed jumping shooting as they should have because people were getting into gunfights and jump shooting like cod and these games also like I said fast paced we need to be looking at other hardcore survival games for inspiration for movement if that makes sense ?

keen gull
# glass void The suggestion of what games they should look at. Marauders is a hardcore surviv...

Ah, I see what you mean. Well if jumping is the only issue it can be made useless, like they did with the last update, or make it drain a lot of stamina and things like that. If sliding is an issue it can be not added entirely as we have right now. The rest is the same shooting, same combat. Why not learn best from the best. I don't say learn how to improve the meta-game by looking at those, most of them don't even have any. I say learn combat from those who do it well. It's not only about combat, it's also about the overall feeling of your own presence and movement. I don't see how it can hurt.

keen gull
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If you want to learn from EFT and Hunt, or PUBG, or TCF they all suck at it.

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Like imagine if we had gore like in DOOM, popping heads with crunchy sounds. Proper thuds while running. Amazing camera movement like in Halo, The feeling of Weight and the Sounds of your equipment from Rainbow while moving. Leaning itself is done pretty well in Rainbow. In Marauders it feels like you're some plastic elastic gum.

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Could even learn some stuff for melee combat from DOOM. Like why not, the game is absurd anyway

fleet prism
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Obviously I want the devs to continue to work on core gameplay mechanics like movement, and they will continue to without me suggesting they should. But honestly, you lost me after the first paragraph as you then proceed to directly compare the game to fast-paced arcade shooters.

Those games are fine, and do well for their objectives. But, Marauders is different for many reasons - but two stick out to me here:

First, to get it out of the way, this is a small dev team. Like, an actually small dev team. It's not really fair to start saying, "Be as good as CoD, but do it without the hundreds of millions that they spend somehow lol" because we need to be realistic about expectations here.

Mainly though - this game is not like those games. It's a game where your character has weight and you don't feel like Master Chief bunny hopping all over the map. Sure, there's elements of the game that are 'unrealistic' like basically any shooter, but it has much higher realism than those games. Moving is hard, jumping is hard, aiming is hard. And for this game, that's the perfect vibe in my opinion. Have you actually attempted to mantle a waist high rail or crouch in real life recently? Shit is tiring, dude. At least it is to me. It doesn't need over the top gore, it doesn't need arena shooter movement. It's the Hunt/Tarkov style of gameplay that drew me in this game in the first place.

I personally have no use for those arena shooters, they're for other gamers. If you prefer that style of gameplay, there's already a million titles filling that niche for you (you've listed a bunch of them yourself)

keen gull
# fleet prism Obviously I want the devs to continue to work on core gameplay mechanics like mo...

You're missing the point. It's not about the gameplay. It's about how it feels to control yourself. How it feels to run around and shoot. How it feels to do the most basic stuff. I never said you should Not have weight. I say let us Feel the weight properly. If the character is light, make the controls light. If the character is heavy let us feel the heaviness. Right now it is none of the above. It does not feel like we're controlling a human character and running does not feel right. Leaning does not feel right. Jumping does not feel right. Vaulting does not feel right. Getting stuck on bumps does not feel right. Same with standing close to walls, shooting, recoil control and many other things I have mentioned in the post. And to be frank I don't think you need a big team to tweak the numbers. All you have to do is test the movement on users and find the sweet spots on tuning speed, acceleration and gravity. Add some proper sound effects, maybe some visual effects and that's it. You don't need a huge team for that.

I pick those games for how well and intuitive they're made. The controls feels good in them. Regardless if they are fast-paced or slow-paced. Pace does not matter. And even if it did, Marauders has very fast movement, very fast leaning, fast aiming and shooting. Some of them might need to be tuned down actually.

Read attentively before looking for reasons to "lose me" after whatever.

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You actually run around and fight faster in Marauders than in some of those Fast-Paced shooters. Why not just let it feel as good?

If you want it to feel Heavy, go ahead. Add sound effects and heavy thuds like in Rainbow I mentioned. Add slower leans to match the heaviness. Add metal clanks, leather stretches. Make it feel heavy and slow, I am all for it. Just make it feel good and set proper expectations.

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I never say make everything lighter and faster. In some regards it can be good but overall it is not good for the tactical aspects of the game. What I say is, make it all intuitive and responsive. Make it all smooth and crispy. Study the games, learn their secrets and apply to improve the game, not make it worse deliberately. Take the good(for Marauders) from them, leave out the rest. Apply the applicable.

keen gull
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Combat is the climax and core of the game. It must feel good if you want to compete. You get top gear, you get top guns, you set all the traps, you make all the right decisions to have top advantage to then reach the amazing finale of epic fight.

But instead, when you reach that point, you start running around like an idiot getting stuck in walls, unable to lean out of a corner, unable to control your recoil to hit your opponent because you don't feel the gun, you make a quick plan to run to certain place and turn to shoot, but you stop too late and not where you meant to, you turn around to get stuck behind another corner. You try to jump off, vaulting does not work. You finally manage to hit some shots, the opponent keeps surviving, you don't know how many shots you hit, you don't know how many more shots you need to hit. You finally manage to get a kill, the opponent does not fall. The model stands right there. Then it falls and you're like.. Is that it? Was this all the buildup for? All this mess? What did I even do right to deserve this Win? Probably nothing, your opponent just had a harder fight with his keyboard+mouse and the game engine.

keen gull
keen gull
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Ä° don't understand all those who put thumbsdown.

You don't want smooth and crispy combat/movement?

ancient badge
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imo except for some stucks, like in leaning or sometimes the aiming not working for a second when beeing too fast with several keys, the movement and combat system feels pretty on spot for me. right now the game is highly skill2win based and I personally dont want that to be "changed"/to get risked.

keen gull
smoky moon
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sounds like you want space call of duty.

Of which has been made already, just play that.

keen gull
smoky moon
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that you want advanced movement which doesnt fit this genre?

keen gull
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Because as of right now everything feels clunky and rubbery

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some of those games actually have less advanced combat/movement, and for a reason

fleet prism
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As I say, I want them to and expect them to tweak the mechanics over time. But I still think we've got different ideas about what this game should be. Agree to disagree. I've said my piece.

severe ore
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Based on what I read in the suggestion, while I think that the criticism is a bit much I do agree with the desire for better feeling movement.
Making the player feel as heavy as they sound, adding (for the player) more noticeable sounds to leaning, vaulting, etc., would be nice.
Iā€™m not sure that those things are really what is hurting new player experience though, I think thatā€™s due to a combination of other factors

keen gull
keen gull
# severe ore Based on what I read in the suggestion, while I think that the criticism is a bi...

It is not very noticeable but it played its part with my friends. It is an issue for me too, but I can look past it because of the other things I am more interested in which the game has. And it's getting more and more annoying over time.

What do you mean by other factors? If you come from another shooter, which has intuitive gunplay, and you find the same here, would you have any problems, especially with such low TTK?

fleet prism
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Whereas I feel like you're being unnecessarily inflammatory. Seems most people don't agree with you.

keen gull
fleet prism
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Buddy - 80% of this thread is you rambling to yourself, that's just math. You've said as much as you can for people to consider the suggestion. Respect the process, let people vote how they like - and try not to be so dismissive of other's opinions. You've got a bit of an attitude.

keen gull
fleet prism
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Okay dude, whatever. Good luck with that idea you have that no-one agrees with, despite your persistent berating.

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Good use of 10 minutes of editing and re-editing your reply, by the way šŸ˜„

keen gull
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I take my time to think before writing something, to make it understandable for those who are keen to assume and misjudge šŸ˜‰

smoky moon
severe ore
# keen gull It is not very noticeable but it played its part with my friends. It is an issue...

Well, you mostly mentioned movement in your post.
I think the movement could be improved, but that the main factors to do with the feel of combat are more tied to things like damage, multipliers, damage resistance, accuracy, reloading animations, etc. And since this suggestion is mostly focused on movement and there are many other suggestions regarding those other factors, well, I just mentioned movement stuff.

wheat adder
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It feels like Iā€™m playing in ice sometimes , wouldnā€™t mind if that stopped happening

keen gull
# smoky moon dudes just salty that nobody wants this to become space cod

You're the salty one for being unable to put up any valuable argument against what I said, and now you're trying to get back at me with irrelevant ad hominem comments.

Most of what I say is the truth, if not all. Combat is clunky, movement is bad and those games I've listed are better at that. They're far more intuitive and have more satisfying combat & movement. These are just straight-up facts. And these issues should be improved if the developers want their game to be able to compete or draw-in bigger audience.

I get frustrated because these are such obvious things, and yet people want to act as if it's not the case. I bring in valuable insight into the game's potential problems, and yet I am ridiculed and mocked by some children, which can't even understand what I wrote. I am surprised and disappointed by the immaturity of the community.

I ask, "Wouldn't it be awesome if the game was more intuitive, had smoother movement and combat?"
And most are like "No!", "This is not space COD! Go play something else!", what the hell does that even mean? Why is it either COD-level action, or Crusader Kings point and click tactics? Can't we have something in the middle? Can't we look for the sweet spot, where you can have both tactical-strategic and enjoyable intuitive smooth combat?

keen gull
# severe ore Well, you mostly mentioned movement in your post. I think the movement could be ...

I try to focus on the basics of the basics. First things you deal with, which give you the overall feeling of the game controls in combat. 1. You move around, 2. You lean, 3. You aim, 4. You shoot and try to control the recoil 5. You somehow manage to get a kill in best case scenario. Each of the phases feels weird and not responsive in the ways you'd expect. I can't tell exactly why, but I believe suspect they're related to the numbers these factors were tuned with. Hence the things I focus on in the main post. Reload animations can also improve the feeling of the game, but are not as important as the fundamental things.

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Numbers of speed, acceleration, durations, periods, weight, inertia etc.

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Maybe I am terrible at explaining myself, hence the strange reaction from the community, but I try to be as precise as I can.

smoky moon
keen gull
# smoky moon youre literally comparing casual arena shooters to something totally different a...

I am hostile towards ignorance in general.

I don't like any of the games I have mentioned, it is not about me or you, what we prefer or not. I speak objectively, these games have better movement and better combat. I don't like and don't want to play any of them, I compare only the movement and combat aspects. And those games have them more intuitive and smoother. I am sure you have played some of them, you should be able to understand what I mean.

smoky moon
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I mean you obviously want to play them when youre trying to bring mechanics over from them. Ive played every mentioned game, theres a reason I dont want their style brought into marauders.

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because run slide run slide, wall ride, vault a railing, run slide is fucking stupid, looks like shit, and is not actually fun. outside of the zoomer generation, but the names there for a reason.

keen gull
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I never said you should implement Everything from them

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Just study the games, learn why they feel good, and apply the applicable!

keen gull
smoky moon
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"Players who give more importance to the feeling and intuitiveness of the combat over the "meta" game of tactics, looting and surviving, will prefer shooters like Halo Infinite, Titanfall 2, Shatterline, DOOM, COD series, Fortnite, Rainbow 6 and even Apex. Because in Marauders it overall sucks in comparison, even if I enjoy some aspects more."

"It could be related to the sounds of your own movement, could be related to camera bobs, body animations while moving; or mannequinlike impression the models give; or the speed of leaning; impression of the weight of the models; jump gravity; animations and timing of moving, turning, leaning, aiming; recoil control intuitiveness; juicy killing animations and sounds(! might be the most important)"

Those are your words man. those are all very high speed arena shooters that use advanced movement and jump spam

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also you dont have to "learn how to move in those" because you play mostly those, for people who are not into the twitch shooter scene they have to learn the movement dynamics of those games, especially cod and doom

keen gull
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These are my words and I stand by each one of them. Where do you see sliding, wall riding, run slide-whatever?

smoky moon
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Hey be more like this thing

But we dont like the thing that makes that unique

I dIdNt SaY tHaT

keen gull
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I can invoke them for any reason, and I said the reason. I never spoke of their gimmicks and special moves. I spoke only about the overall feel and intuitiveness of the movements. Not about any of the tricks

smoky moon
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all of those things are what make those games have their feeling!

keen gull
smoky moon
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MW movement sucks without the advanced movement and more or less unlimited sprints.

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that is the opposite of games like this for a reason

Youre used to a very different style of game, and thats ok, but dont try to make everything feel like cod.

keen gull
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Launch Titanfall run around, don't use any wall-rides, grappling hooks or anything, don't jump. How does running and shooting feel? Same with Halo, ignore everything which does not relate to Marauders

keen gull
smoky moon
severe ore
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I think better comparisons would be shooters like Battlefield, Enlisted, and similar.

keen gull
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I never said it's great. I said it does it better in general. The overall feeling of movement and combat is obvious from the first seconds.

severe ore
keen gull
severe ore
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Their movement is generally simpler, and contains the same scope of movement as Marauders.

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I think the earlier COD games, like the first MW, are still an alright place to look for that ā€œfeelā€ of movement without it being too gimmicky

smoky moon
keen gull
keen gull
keen gull
# severe ore I think the earlier COD games, like the first MW, are still an alright place to ...

Maybe I should've made it clear in the post that this is not about the things those games have this game doesn't, but the things all the games have in common and those I listed do better. I thought it's obvious when I mentioned the overall feel and intuitiveness numerous times, which apply to all of the fps games and not only.

We look only at the basic movement, basic aiming and shooting. This post is not about slides, bunnyhops, grapple-hooks, jetpacks, wall-runs, slide-jumps, parkour, building constructions, putting traps, climbing into windows, jump-shotting and other peculiarities some of the listed games might have. There's a reason I did not mention any of them, but only certain other specifics.

But this small freedom to misinterpret and misread my post should not have led to such misunderstandings.

fleet prism
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My mans, you need to let this thread die šŸ˜„

keen gull
keen gull
# fleet prism My mans, you need to let this thread die šŸ˜„

I want to see if I can turn this around, because the truth is on my side. And the more attention this post gets the better chances for my input to be noticed and hopefully used to better the game. I don't want any of this to be wasted because some kids don't know how to read.

fleet prism
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Dude, 90% of my comments are 2% of this thread, and you're at about 94%. I'll be unequivocal here, nothing to refute:

  • In my personal opinion, they've struck the balance right for this game
  • The sluggishness feels right and more real than those other games you've described - to me
  • There are glitches with movement currently, absolutely, and I hope and am sure they'll be worked on over time
  • However, the overall speed to ADS, lean, jump, move input delay, etc. etc. gives me a particular vibe that I enjoy for this
  • Because of this, I disagree with your suggestions
keen gull
fleet prism
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Fair, I saw the highlight and thought it was at me. My bad. The only apology you'll get from me though, you're one of the most infuriatingly pompous people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting online.

keen gull
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Fair points though, it's totally fine to disagree for those reasons.

keen gull
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I don't know where you get that from. Must be because it's all written.

smoky moon
keen gull
severe ore
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was wondering about the ghost ping but I guess that explains it

smoky moon
keen gull
smoky moon