#Pell's Personal Deckbuilding Enclave

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junior meteor
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I'm congealing all of my personal deckbuilds here into one mass that may or may not be good for my health. This way, I only need to manage two places to look (one for the league library, and one personal one) and don't blow up #format-philosophy every time I have a good game.

Hi, I'm Pell! I build decks and I play decks and I enjoy decks. I mostly play Bracket 3, because I find the skill expression of having to choose game changers specifically and having to avoid illegal combos to be very rewarding. Currently, I play three main decks:

But I will add to this over time, I'm sure! Come and hang out! I'll have decklist links for these posted soon~

Moxfield
Team WAHOO!!! — January 2026 Edition - Commander (Satya, Aetherfl...

A deck created using Moxfield.

Moxfield
Long May She Hold the Reigns! 👑 (Bracket 3) — February 2026 - ...

A deck created using Moxfield.

Moxfield
Shark Week (Not a Euphemism, There's Actually a Shark) (Bracket 3) ...

A deck created using Moxfield.

silent girderBOT
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Long May She Reign! :crown:

thorny plinth
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Following this now if that's OK?

junior meteor
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Please do

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So, last night I had my first game since like 6 months after Thunder Junction with Marchesa. People didn't like it last time I played, because it was pretty hard control, but this time it was much better received.

silent girderBOT
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Long May She Reign! :crown:

junior meteor
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Some things I noticed from the deck:

  • The reanimator bits of the deck are much worse than the not-reanimator bits.
  • I probably need a bit more countermagic.
  • Lazav might actually be the best card in the deck that isn't named Mystic Remora or Rhystic Study.
  • Spinerock Tyrant is really fucking good.
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So I think I'm for sure dropping Sheoldred and Archon of Cruelty, and probably Persist and Twilight Diviner as well.

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Hullbreaker was great, Spinerock was great, so those get to stay.

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Some other things that performed poorly were:

  • Ral, Monsoon Mage was actually pretty dogshit. Both times he was in play he flipped on the first cast, making me empty the stack to keep going. I think he's probably incredible once you get going but if he just immediately flips he's worse than Nightscape Familiar or Goblin Electromancer.
  • Siphon Insight felt a little bad because I had to discard it pretty early as it was the worst card in my hand. I think if it was functionally 3 mana look at 4 cards and draw 2, it would be great, and I'm willing to give it another try.
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Oh my god, Ral transforming is optional. I'm a huge moron.

thorny plinth
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Did you make changes to the deck between then and now that you think makes it play less "hard control"?

junior meteor
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Yeah, let me show you the "before"!

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This is the old list! I think it is significantly worse than the current one in a lot of ways.

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Back when I built this I wasn't nearly as good at deckbuilding as I am now, and so I knew what good cards looked like but not what made a good EDH deck.

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One of the major changes you'll notice is that this actually entirely focuses on reanimator, it doesn't have Urabrask, it doesn't have Birgi, and it doesn't really have a lot of the good spellslinger synergies otherwise available.

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and the things i'm reanimating are mostly control bombs, not things that synergize with the deck itself

thorny plinth
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4 reanimate effects seems small for [[twilight diviner]]

static gustBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/ecl/122/twilight-diviner

Twilight Diviner <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Elf Cleric
When this creature enters, surveil 2. (Look at the top two cards of your library, then put any number of them into your graveyard and the rest on top of your library in any order.)
Whenever one or more other creatures you control enter, if they entered or were cast from a graveyard, create a token that's a copy of one of them. This ability triggers only once each turn.
3/3

thorny plinth
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Or am I missing them

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Sheoldred, reanimate, persist, animate dead

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Oh, I guess soul stone if you've activated it

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I do like this updated list

junior meteor
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Yeah, my current list I think is better than the old one lmao

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but i think we probably do cut most of the reanimation at this point

thorny plinth
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I know I keep referencing this with her but [[lost jitte]] is still one of the cheapest crimes you didn't include

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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yeah, my only concern is having to attack, a lot of the time i can't

thorny plinth
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It works on blocking damage too

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But yeah

junior meteor
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fair

thorny plinth
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And to creatures, not to players

junior meteor
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it might end up in but i'm not entirely sold

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but i think i'm not entirely sold on hearse in this either so

thorny plinth
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[[umezawa's jitte]] is the other obviously but 2 to play and 2 to equip feels almost too much

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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yeah this deck likes staying as cheap as possible in a lot of ways

thorny plinth
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But getting 2 counters instead of 1 is a big difference

junior meteor
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cheaper = more spells = more triggers = more sleight of hand

thorny plinth
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[[withered wretch]] is the funny crime but sadly costs 1 to do

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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idk, maybe i'll try it, i do think it's realistic that jitte might be better than hearse or something

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i actually hate spending mana to crime, this is why we hex parasite and spatial binding

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and believe me i hate spatial binding too

thorny plinth
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I kept looking at making her, [[rishadan dockhand]] was on my shortlist. I just am terrible at finishing Grixis lists

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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dockhand was something i had considered

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i'm ? on port but also people fucking hate it when you port them in upkeep

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and dockhand is obviously very similar

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main difference is it's a 1/2 with summoning sickness which is why i'm a little ? but at least it's not a 1/1

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Unfortunately since I'm at work I can only edit moxfield decklists at slug speed

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but im gonna remove a lot of the stuff from my considering list rn

thorny plinth
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Part of the reason I was looking at it was because of jitte and it potentially being unblockable because island walk

junior meteor
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yeah, very d&t adjacent

thorny plinth
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I don't think it's right for your list

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I'm just talking about where my reasoning was

junior meteor
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yeah i figured

junior meteor
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alright so what im gonna do with marchy is im gonna remove everything from my considering all at once, go to sleep for X hours, wake up and try to replace the cards i didnt like

junior meteor
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Current list, the things I cut are in the sideboard, the considering list is just the things my sleepy ass thought of once the old massive one was cleared, they should not and will not all go into the list.

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basically im cutting the entire reanimator package (maybe not entomb) as well as swapping out consign for a different counterspell to test since it underperformed

thorny plinth
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Does Unearth work with Valki?

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Like you can bring back tibalt?

junior meteor
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i do not believe so, no

thorny plinth
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It's late, my brain did a rules glitch

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I had Valki in Idris and have otherwise just not played it

junior meteor
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he might honestly be coming out but i do wanna try to keep him in as long as possible, having those win buttons available is really nice

junior meteor
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Aight, working on this for a bit.

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I took out 9 cards I felt underperformed, were bad fits, or could be better:

  • Prismatic Vista (I have two basics)
  • Consign to Memory (I love this card but I'd like to try a creature counterspell in this slot)
  • Entomb (Reanimate package, might stay in just for Lazav)
  • Reanimate (Reanimate package, might come back for Breach/PiF lines.)
  • Animate Dead (Reanimate package, not coming back)
  • Persist (Reanimate package, unlikely to come back)
  • Twilight Diviner (Reanimate package, not coming back)
  • Sheoldred, Whispering One (Reanimate package, don't need it)
  • Archon of Cruelty (Reanimate package, don't need it)
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I would like to focus on that grindy midrange-storm-spellslinger gameplay I'm getting when I play the rest of the deck. Obviously, I need to swap Prismatic for another land, but the rest of these can be focused on the weaknesses of the deck, which are the ways to get mana. I think Vivi is a good fit to start, as it helps get me the reach I need to win games as well as is a blue mana source.

junior meteor
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So I think Tendrils of Agony and Vivi are good fits.

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is [[Atmosphere Surgeon]] a bad pick?

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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i think probably because it's a sorcery, but being able to bank up targeting effects is pretty sick

junior meteor
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I should probably be running Valley Floodcaller before I run High Fae Trickster, I don't have that many creatures.

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And that's really the only upside to HFT

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if i do swap to floodcaller, i should probably be on retraction helix

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or some way to abuse the untap

junior meteor
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Here's a weird thing. Powerstone tokens can actually be used to pay for Marchesa's ability.

silent girderBOT
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Long May She Reign! :crown:

junior meteor
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They're only restricted from casting nonartifact spells, they can be used for abilities regardless, so I might look at some cards that incidentally make a Powerstone token.

thorny plinth
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Yep

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I don't know that you need to be on retraction helix

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You could have something that let's you tap a creature and commit a crime

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Like [[opposition]]?

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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Possibly, yeah.

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Oh, I guess I could just put mantle in

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Since I dont really go to combat, it is just fine, and would be a way to get blue mana midcombo

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[[Paradise Mantle]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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Does also filter my red to blue if I really need

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Also I was already thinking about swapping that spare fetch for an urza saga

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Bc i can put baubles in to get 1 mana draw 2 mill 1

thorny plinth
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I missed the baubles weren't in earlier

junior meteor
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yeah, i think baubles should go back in, i took them out when i made the new build by accident, but they should be in the deck

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so there's 5 slots easy; vivi, tendrils, bauble, bauble, paradise mantle

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oh, 6, urza's saga

junior meteor
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okay, i have 3 slots

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i'd like to get another counterspell, as well as something big enough to compete in combat that also benefits my gameplan

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I'm considering going with <some counterspell>, <big guy>, Sorcerer Class or Storm of Memories

junior meteor
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Okay, so I went with Flusterstorm for the counterspell slot.

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Big guy slot is rough.

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Here's the current considering pile on that.

  • Kess, Dissident Mage
  • Eater of the Dead
  • Kraum, Ludevic's Opus
  • Hraesvelgr of the First Brood
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I'm gonna go with Hraesvelgr for now, and if I don't like it I'll swap it out for Kraum.

thorny plinth
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[[Hraesvelgar]]

static gustBOT
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No card found for “Hraesvelgar”

thorny plinth
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[[Hraesv]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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@upbeat kiln sorcerer class or storm of memories

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last slot in the 99 i don't have any pifs right now

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but also with sorcerer class at 3 i don't need a pif to kill people

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[[sorcerer class]] [[storm of memories]]

static gustBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/afr/233/sorcerer-class

Sorcerer Class <:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397>

Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
When this Class enters, draw two cards, then discard two cards.
manaumanar: Level 2
Creatures you control have "manat: Add manau or manar. Spend this mana only to cast an instant or sorcery spell or to gain a Class level."
mana3manaumanar: Level 3
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, that spell deals damage to each opponent equal to the number of instant and sorcery spells you've cast this turn.

upbeat kiln
junior meteor
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true

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i think im gonna try sorc class and see how it goes, if i want the pif i'll swap something for a pif

junior meteor
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Alright, so I tagged everything finally, and there's a few things that I'm noticing.

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I have a bunch of cards tagged as card draw, but that's what my commander provides best, and it's as many as my mana ramp. Might be worth swapping one for Personal Tutor or something so I have another way to find Tendrils of Agony or Grapeshot.

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I do think I might look at putting Storm of Memories or Empty the Warrens in as well, at some point.

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i have 21 fucking pieces of interaction if you don't count Grapeshot

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One really important thing for Storm is that nearly all of the good storm cards are sorcery speed, so a [[Personal Tutor]] should probably be in here, if only as a 3rd copy of Grapeshot/Tendrils.

thorny plinth
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I remembered some more free crime!

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[[Faerie macabre]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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it is indeed a free crime, although it is kinda one-use

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might still end up in though

thorny plinth
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Is it one or two crimes if they're different graveyards?

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OK, the rule is "at least one"

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So still sadly only one crime

junior meteor
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A player can commit only one crime per spell or ability they control. Targeting multiple opponents, permanents, spells, abilities, and/or cards with the same spell or ability doesn’t constitute committing multiple crimes. (2024-04-12)

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yeah

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it's why im considering taking out Hearse, even though it's good; targeting 2 things is not actually all that valuable here since it doesn't trigger twice

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thinkin about replacing it with cauldron just outright

thorny plinth
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That would make sense

peak shuttle
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Also following this channel because you have great vibes and deck-building skills!

junior meteor
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Thanks!

junior meteor
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Alright, so I've swapped Hearse for Cauldron for now. Next up in consideration for this deck will be possibly replacing Cyclonic Rift with Mists of Lorien so that I can add a different gamechanger (I'd really like to have Breach in here, but I'm gonna wait for this change entirely until Monday just in case).

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I'd also like to find a slot for [[Waterlogged Teachings]] and [[Personal Tutor]]

static gustBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/261/waterlogged-teachings-inundated-archive

Waterlogged Teachings <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaub:292901509056692224>

Instant
Search your library for an instant card or a card with flash, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
The long-dead librarians are still on hand to recommend selected titles.

Inundated Archive
Land
This land enters tapped.
manat: Add manau or manab.
Moldering tomes line rotting shelves. Generations of priceless knowledge fade from memory beneath the waves.

junior meteor
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Oh, and possibly adding [[High Tide]]. I don't think it'll be good in this, but I'd like to test it.

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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Another card I like the vibe of and would like to test is [[Spoils of Evil]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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It's not Jeska's Will or anything, but it'll regularly go up on mana and it does trigger Marchesa as a ritual.

silent girderBOT
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Long May She Reign! :crown:

junior meteor
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Last time I built Wernog//Elmar, we didn't have Game Changers

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and now I am like "well which ones am i supposed to keep" rebuilding it

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im definitely running crop rotation at least

thorny plinth
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How many did you have?

junior meteor
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I had:
Natural Order
The One Ring
Worldly Tutor
Crop Rotation
Vampiric Tutor
Mox Diamond

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i think i'm gonna go down to crop rot, mox diamond, and go to smothering tithe?

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or maybe crop rot vampiric tutor smothering tithe

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i really dont need the mox diamond, it's there so i can play t1 wernog

thorny plinth
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nod

thorny plinth
junior meteor
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alright initial rebuild, i need 2 cuts

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i think im cutting surge conductor, the original deck was heavier on artifacts and this one's relatively light

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yeah, i cut that and infectious inquiry

junior meteor
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Feels weird, I think I forgot some important things in 2 years.

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Really hard to remember 98 cards from memory.

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might try to do it from scratch again instead of trying to remember everything

junior meteor
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I feel like I had a good way of putting [[Persuasive Interrogator]] into play before and I'm trying to figure out what it was.

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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One thing I'm thinking of, with this, is that it might be easier now to just run the artifact pingers, which does make it less enticing for me, i like persuasive interrogators

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since i last played the deck they printed two more of em

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Something like a creature set like this

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swaps me to being primarily naya instead of primarily jund, which gives me a few extra options

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And then I end up on Mutagen Man as well when he drops

thorny plinth
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I don't think it's worth it to run the artifact pingers

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Making the deck significantly less interesting defeats the point

junior meteor
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yeah

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i think it's stronger but definitely less fun

junior meteor
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Well FUCK ME

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now i need to look at if i can put lutri in my marchesa list

silent girderBOT
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Long May She Reign! :crown:

junior meteor
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[[Lutri, the Spellchaser]]

static gustBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/iko/227/lutri-the-spellchaser

Lutri, the Spellchaser <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaur:292901509010817024><:manaur:292901509010817024>

Legendary Creature — Elemental Otter
Companion — Each nonland card in your starting deck has a different name. (If this card is your chosen companion, you may put it into your hand from outside the game for mana3 as a sorcery.)
Flash
When Lutri enters, if you cast it, copy target instant or sorcery spell you control. You may choose new targets for the copy.
3/2

junior meteor
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I think these are all the playable ninjas in WB

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I am probably not playing all of these

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I think the 1-drops and Leo Sewer Samurai are pretty free, though

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and im positive we'll get another couple of ninjas in these colors to look at

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Actual gameplan though is warlock class wound reflection etc. type effects.

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5 ninjas is woefully easy with trigger doublers and token doublers and doublestrike

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So I wanna abuse those same doublers with some scam cards to get a lot of value and get the mana to get final chapter warlock or wound reflection

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It's "tokens" but actually those tokens never attack because I need [[duelist heritage]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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But by running those efficient doublers with tataru and lotho and tithe, the cost of reflection becomes actually realistic

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Should post the commander here

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[[Dark leo shred]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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Delney and doublestrike is immediately 3/4 of life gone

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Which i think if nothing else makes them much easier to kill after

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If you have 4 ninjas before combat delney makes it 15/16?

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Or roughly 2 life

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Wait, 40-1=39,-20=19,-10=9,-1=8,-4=4,-2=2

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Yeah 2

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Even if you only have 3 it's 4 life, not a huge worry

junior meteor
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Alright, so here's the start

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I definitely need more 1-drops and probably to look at things with Ninjutsu and Freerunning and Webslinging

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Okay, here's my 1-drops now

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@outer parcel

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wanted to get u in here so you can see this shit

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ascendant might come out i'm not sure how i feel about it but it's also very aggressive

junior meteor
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We've got 100 cards.

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You might say "pell this isnt a ninja deck" and i will disagree with you because there is a ninja in the command zone

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please ignore that my cavern of souls is going on human

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what is 36 / 2 / 2 / 2, this test hand had a fucking cracked opener of dark leo into delney into roaming throne

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18 / 2 = 9, 9 / 2 = 4

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the turn 4 "a player is at 4 life"

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honestly i might not even need the Wound Reflection effects, this is pretty fucking aggressive as it is

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and i could free up those slots for more things that actually get me there

junior meteor
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IT'S TURN 3 AND SOMEONE CAN NO LONGER PLAY SHOCKLANDS

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holy fuck man

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i know this is an outlier, but i kept the hand without sol ring

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on just roaming throne duelist heritage

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jesus christ i don't know if this is okay for bracket 3 man

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the worst part is like, leo's got deathtouch and doublestrike so even if they block they just lose whatever they blocked with

junior meteor
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I think I could use a Mox Amber in here probably, DL&S are 2 mana

junior meteor
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Gonna get to test this in an actual game, really excited

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😄

junior meteor
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I'm at the end of a very long game, but this deck felt fantastic

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holy shit i had a really bad start and im in the final 2

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took it home

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through thopter sword

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turns out halving someone's life 4 times in a turn every turn is really good

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Some things from this game:
Duelist Heritage AND Fireshrieker actually mattered, having the redundancy got me through a counterspell.
Roaming Throne is really good in this deck, shocking nobody.
Akroma's Will was great.
Imp's Mischief might be too cute, but I got to use it to counter a spell, so,
Enduring Innocence was incredibly solid as my only source of card draw the whole game.

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I have literally zero complaints, every card I saw performed exactly as it needed to. Everybody Lives even prevented my own death AND a boardwipe that was coming.

peak shuttle
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Bravo! I'm glad your Ninjutsu sealed their grim demise.

junior meteor
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(there are 2 ninjutsu cards and 1 sneak card in the deck)

junior meteor
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I'm thinking about putting Necro in Dark Leo & Shredder, just to help with how card-hungry the deck is. Unsure. I have a gamechanger slot available if I think I need it and can fit it.

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I'd also like to slot in Bowmaster since I think it's probably good in this, and I don't need Enlightened Tutor.

junior meteor
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A day later, some things I wanted to come back to. Skrelv was really mediocre. I wanted another Mom, but skrelv is a really bad 3rd since it costs life and my life total is a resource to get me to hit people.

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Additionally, Dark Leo is really card-hungry because it's just Deadguy again, so we're looking at different card draw engines. Right now, we're running:

  • Esper Sentinel
  • Commissar Severina Raine
  • Enduring Innocence
  • Welcoming Vampire
  • Elegy Acolyte
  • Staff of the Storyteller
  • Black Market Connections
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Some things I'm looking at putting in over various things, at some point, to test:

  • Agent Venom
  • Barrowgoyf
  • Loran of the Third Path
  • Tymna, the Weaver
  • Braids, Arisen Nightmare
  • Orochi Soul-Reaver
  • Bennie Bracks, Zoologist
  • Necropotence
  • Necrodominance
  • Caretaker's Talent
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I'm also looking at reducing the topend in terms of cmc, right now the topend is Elegy Acolyte or things I can cast for free, which puts me at 4 mana top end. I might be interested in a Serra Ascendant as well, possibly, as a result, but overall just trying to reduce the cost of creatures because this deck really likes to pay 3 or less for creatures.

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It may be worth putting this off until the full set for TMNT is revealed, though, just in case there's any ninja-based draw engines or something there I could use more easily.

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In terms of actual ninjas though, when I started building this I bought into the conceit that having some number of ninjas is important because of how much it speeds up Dark Leo's triggers, but obviously I don't want to run bad ones, so right now the ninjas I'm running are:

  • Changeling Outcast
  • Prehistoric Pet
  • Dokuchi Silencer
  • Azra Smokeshaper
  • Roaming Throne

And that's it, at the moment. Good ninjas in WB serve double duty, and these are the best ones I have access to right now.

junior meteor
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Okay I'm fixing the brain bug right now. I asked a lot of people for advice and got some... varying answers!

peak shuttle
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Any ones that have you really interested in them?

junior meteor
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Yeah. I do really wanna try Tymna in here. The rest is ??? atm.

thorny plinth
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But yeah, scam the angel for Leo/Shredder

junior meteor
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yeah

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wait, one of my scam cards does say "leaves", i think

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not dies

thorny plinth
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There are ones that trigger if it goes to exile yeah

junior meteor
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ah, the only one is kaya's ghostform, which i cut

junior meteor
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One thing I need to do is justify how this is functionally better than Arabella, what does black give me that red doesn't

thorny plinth
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[[bloodletter of aclazotz]]?

static gustBOT
thorny plinth
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[[warlock class]] those sorts of effects

static gustBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/afr/125/warlock-class

Warlock Class <:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
At the beginning of your end step, if a creature died this turn, each opponent loses 1 life.
mana1manab: Level 2
When this Class becomes level 2, look at the top three cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.
mana6manab: Level 3
At the beginning of your end step, each opponent loses life equal to the life they lost this turn. (Damage causes loss of life.)

junior meteor
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I actually took most of those out, because while I like wound reflection, it draws a ton of hate and also feels bad

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I think warlock class is probably justifiable still

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If only bc it's stapled to a draw spell

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[[Arabella]] is obligated to run low cost creatures and 1/1 tokens because she needs them for cavalcade

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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Leo is both the cavalcade and the token generator with a lower requirement

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You can probably understand why I am comparing them, as a result, they kinda do similar things

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Or rather want to play a similar game

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Does black/white have any cavalades

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Hmm

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We have [[within range]] and severina raine

static gustBOT
junior meteor
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Idk if there are more

junior meteor
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Unsure if I can even compete on that specific axis, mostly because this is the first set Ninja tokens are being printed and thus IDK how many ways to make them there will be.

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I guess in reality Black's specific strength in this deck is that it is the color that can provide me with the cards/mana that will make it capable for me to not just recover from being blown the fuck out, but also to keep me playing the game for longer

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compared to red which needs to be a lot more all-in as they do not have the tools for longevity

junior meteor
#

Thinking I might wholesale swap Enduring Innocence for Caretaker's Talent

#

[[Caretaker's Talent]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

I'm probably never levelling this up, but it is 1 mana to add a ninja, once.

#

Innocence is cool, and Delney can double trigger it, but it being a creature has the downside of being a path to exile target.

#

Being a creature also has an upside in this deck, though, which is that if i have to i can use it to sneak in my commander

#

i would prefer to never do that with Enduring Innocence since it costs 3, but it's an option

junior meteor
#

oh my fucking god you know what card i forgot

#

@thorny plinth i forgot [[maccready, lamplight mayor]] somehow on the considering list

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

my commander is also a 1/3

#

i totally forgot the lil guy existed what a guy

thorny plinth
#

I think he's the only character to return in fo4

junior meteor
#

God, I'm really considering if I want [[Ninja Teen]] and I don't know if I do

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

5 mana is a lot to give everything menace and that's really the mode I care about here

#

it would be cheaper to give everything flying probably lmao

#

Just checked and I was definitely wrong, I would need a number of enchantments lmao

#

maybe [[Behind the Scenes]] ????

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

everything's a 1/x what is blocking me

#

i have a commander that is a 1/3 deathtouch i seriously doubt anyone's gonna put 3 1/1s into blocking him

junior meteor
#

i think 8 1-drops is enough

junior meteor
#

I need 7 cuts, and some of them definitely need to be creatures.

#

And one needs to be a gamechanger

#

I think I'm comfortable with changing Necropotence to Necrodominance if I need to

#

Bowmasters and Tithe are great, so it's either run Necropotence with no Enlightened Tutor, or Necrodominance with Enlightened Tutor.

#

2 left, still gotta go down a GC. I might go down Avwrath since it fucks my tokens up, and I'm thinking I might just drop the Enlightened Tutor.

junior meteor
#

Unsure I'm gonna sleep on it and then just pick two things

peak shuttle
#

Yeah sometimes you don't really need a tutor.

#

Especially if it'll typically go for the same enchantment most of hte time.

#

Though Tithe also is a card that really makes you a kingslayer quite early on too.

#

So it depends on how you'd want your threat assessment to be.

junior meteor
#

I'm not too worried about being assessed as the threat for having Tithe out, but I have basically three camps here:

  1. I drop Enlightened Tutor and Avatar's Wrath. I don't like this one because being able to tutor for either Necropotence or Smothering Tithe depending on what I need is extremely powerful, but more importantly Enlightened Tutor is another way to grab Fireshrieker or Duelist Heritage or Roaming Throne, all of which are very important pieces of the deck.

  2. I change Necropotence to Necrodominance and drop Avatar's Wrath and Authority of the Consuls. I think this one's probably fine. If I can't go up to 9, I don't need as much lifegain, but the Blind Obedience effect will be sorely missed, and the difference for me between Necrodom and Necropotence is minimal.

  3. I change Smothering Tithe to either [[Smugglers Share]] or [[Monologue Tax]], drop Avatar's Wrath and some other card. I kinda like this one the best, but Share is notably worse than Tithe and Monologue Tax, and is more likely to generate cards than mana for me.

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

Okay, I swapped out Smothering Tithe for Monologue Tax, removed Avatar's Wrath for now, and canned Starfield Shepherd for now.

peak shuttle
#

Great!

junior meteor
#

This might be what I'm playing for the league next month.

#

very minimal tutors, i can't search out food chain, etc.

junior meteor
#

I think this is downpowered enough to not be an issue. I specifically did not include [[Glacier Godmaw]] so that Natural Order doesn't have a haste outlet.

static gustBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/eoe/188/glacier-godmaw

Glacier Godmaw <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Leviathan
Trample
When this creature enters, create a Lander token. (It's an artifact with "mana2, manat, Sacrifice this token: Search your library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.")
Landfall — Whenever a land you control enters, creatures you control get +1/+1 and gain vigilance and haste until end of turn.
6/6

junior meteor
#

If it's not strong enough, I'll just put Godmaw in.

#

I should also probably include Thousand-Year Elixir but it's not in rn

#

the thing with godmaw is because most of my infinite lines make infinite dryad arbors

#

which means they just all get haste as soon as they enter

#

and if i'm able to dig enough, there's always intruder alarm which leads to glacier godmaw killing people with infinite number of infinite power arbors

#

i do think i need a little more card draw in here, most of my draw is rhystic mystic

#

like a sylvan library would probably go crazy

junior meteor
#

@short flare wanted to get your opinion on this since it is ostensibly a land combo deck, it's just also a control deck.

#

Some things I kinda want in here are Sylvan Scrying (because the UG manland is a fucking beating) and Thousand-Year Elixir so that Jyoti tokens immediately tap for mana.

#

[[Restless Vinestalk]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

this fucking thing

#

very notably it doesn't give a fuck how it got animated so if kyoshi turns it into an 8/8 it still turns something else into a 3/3

short flare
junior meteor
#

I'm also looking at putting Icetill in here but I kinda just don't need it in this, I think.

short flare
#

I'm very high on icetill

junior meteor
#

I think it's probably good but things that mill are pretty dangerous

#

2 of my main pieces are enchants i can't search and only have a couple of ways to get back

short flare
#

We're trying to be turn 6 and earlier?

#

Later*

junior meteor
#

yeah.

#

Turn 6 or later, which I think we're at currently.

short flare
#

The one i'm working on is going too fast, I need to cut the tutors probably

#

Give me a second to take in the list

junior meteor
#

Take your time!

short flare
#

Notable ommision, eldritch evolution

#

Since on an arbor it gets cub/kinnan

junior meteor
#

Yeah, eldritch evo turns an arbor token into a badgermole, that was something I'd thought about

short flare
#

It turns jyoti into kodama too

junior meteor
#

yeah, and that's similarly very good

#

especially bc you typically want to cast him twice anyway

#

(it's why Natural Order's even in here)

short flare
#

Yeah

#

Notable inclusion, wash away, thats fun

junior meteor
#

Yep, it's something I put in anything control-heavy.

#

It's just too important, commanders win games so often and if I can keep someone off of their commander it makes sure I can spend the time I need to get going.

#

I was also on Disdainful Stroke last time I played this, for similar reasons.

#

[[Disdainful Stroke]]

static gustBOT
short flare
#

I play a lot of disdainful stroke

junior meteor
#

Yeah, I think it's pretty good in this deck, even a couple of turns of extra time is extremely valuable

short flare
#

Okay, and what opinion do you specifically want?

junior meteor
#

Do you think this is missing anything obvious that wouldn't push it over the edge, and do you think I'm running enough interaction?

#

Godmaw is really tempting but I think the second I put it in I am dedicating my entire gameplan to the combo

#

whereas this can actually play a very reasonable fair game

short flare
#

If i'm understandign the godmaw situation right, he's functionally just a tutororable crossroads, right?

junior meteor
#

yeah

short flare
#

I wouldn't dedicate two slots to the effect, but I think cutting crossroads for him isn't literally insane

#

I don't think a hybrid control deck wants to play two copies of the final enabler though

junior meteor
#

yeah fair enough

#

just whether or not I want godmaw or crossroads

short flare
#

Cause like you said, thats going more in on the combo

#

At which point, commit

junior meteor
#

i think godmaw is objectively better

short flare
#

I think so too

#

Probably

#

Tutorable is BIG

junior meteor
#

it's searchable, it's a natural order target, it triggers my nantuko for nantuko combos

#

because it makes a lander token

short flare
#

I think the deck looks pretty balanced, but there's definitely some quirky stuff you could be playing

#

The flares are pretty good in decks like this for example

junior meteor
#

I still like the idea of finding a spot for Eldritch Evolution and a spot for Thousand Year Elixir

#

the problem with the flares is i rate flare of cultivation pretty low and i dont have very many blue permanents for flare of denial

short flare
#

Yeah the color restriction is tough

#

Fair

#

I think i'm not 100% seeing the vision on this town aint big enough

junior meteor
#

and i don't wanna go like, neoform, because neoforming an earthbended land doesn't get me anything other than like

#

tamiyo

short flare
#

And maybe summon valefor i'm confused about too

junior meteor
#

this town's just a really efficient removal spell that lets me recast cub

#

or like

#

if i natural order for nantuko, god forbid

#

i can this town it back to hand to remove something

short flare
#

Yeah I do get all that

#

I'm a bit of a 2 cmc removal hater

#

I'm just gonna be all like "it costs two times as much as sleep with the fishes"

junior meteor
#

summon valefor is mostly "this is a beater that always trades mana positive"

#

there's like no scenario where im casting summon valefor and not returning 5 mana worth of creatures

short flare
#

Mhmm

junior meteor
#

i do think i would be better served by like

short flare
#

I'm not at all saying these cards are bad, just maybe not as on theme

junior meteor
#

Jill or something more surgical

short flare
#

And yeah, im not a fan of imprecise tools at all

junior meteor
#

yeah

#

i think [[jill shiva's dominant]] might just be better in the slot

static gustBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/fin/58/jill-shivas-dominant-shiva-warden-of-ice

Jill, Shiva's Dominant <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Human Noble Warrior
When Jill enters, return up to one other target nonland permanent to its owner's hand.
mana3manaumanau, manat: Exile Jill, then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery.
"I'm going to help you. To give you what you need to protect us all."
2/2

Shiva, Warden of Ice
Legendary Enchantment Creature — Saga Elemental
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I, II — Mesmerize — Target creature can't be blocked this turn.
III — Cold Snap — Tap all lands your opponents control. Exile Shiva, then return it to the battlefield (front face up).
"I will be your monster no more."
4/5

junior meteor
#

especially since it can bounce a rhystic or whatever

#

and similarly lets me recast or reset things if i have to

short flare
#

Cold snap!

junior meteor
#

last mode on shiva is like, the easiest way to kill a problem player

short flare
#

Yeah, its like a silence

junior meteor
#

yep

#

and it can also make the 8/8s from avatar kyoshi or whatever unblockable

short flare
#

What is special about springleaf drum here, over a mana dork say

#

I might be missing something

junior meteor
#

unsure actually

#

that might be my elixir slot

short flare
#

Actually if I have any critique, its that you have a sort of low amount of natural dorks for a deck with cub+kinnan. Not wrong per se, but it is worth noting

junior meteor
#

i really don't like 1 health dorks so the options are not high

short flare
#

Ah gotcha

#

A land for a delighted halfing sir?

junior meteor
#

locally i see a lot of lava dart, gut shot, and darkblast

#

we got a halfling in here i thought

short flare
#

Oh we do

#

Its the one

junior meteor
#

the only real answers are like

#

rustvine cultivator, gene pollinator, goose, or jaspera sentinel?

short flare
#

Yeah

#

So goose

#

Is the only option

junior meteor
#

oh and loam dryad which is the same thing in a better type actually

short flare
#

And thats tuff

junior meteor
#

i do want to avoid elves and elementals because i like nissa getting me endurance

short flare
#

Yeah I feel you

junior meteor
#

i love that utility

short flare
#

I wouldnt mess around with stuff like rustvine or gene pollinator or whatever

junior meteor
#

rustvine is so tempting if i had literally any proliferate in the deck

#

but i do not and so it's 🙁

short flare
#

Gene polinator maybe actually

junior meteor
#

pollinator's just a better springleaf in a lot of situations, yeah

#

honestly i know this is maybe stupid but like

#

my commander costs 4

#

maybe i look at 2cmc dorks?

short flare
#

I was thinking that

junior meteor
#

i actually don't know what the options even are in these colors

short flare
#

not awful not great

#

fanatic of rhonas

junior meteor
#

oh fanatic

#

i fucking forgot he existed

short flare
#

Hornithopter I guess

junior meteor
#

i do just make 8/8s a lot

#

but i guess at that point i dont really need the dork

short flare
#

Sanctum weaver 😉

junior meteor
#

okay hear me out here

#

[[great divide guide]]

static gustBOT
short flare
#

Wait

#

Sanctum waever maybe actually

junior meteor
#

this fixes my mana AND is a mana dork

#

sanctum weaver is a big Hmm as well

short flare
#

Sanctum weaver intruder alarm is a bit of a vibe

#

I dont like 2 mana dorks

junior meteor
#

i dont like them either

#

the reason i was like maybe great divide guide is it makes my other creatures also tap for mana

#

including kinnan or the cub themselves

#

oh wait they're not allies

short flare
#

Yeah

junior meteor
#

FUCK

#

is kyoshi an ally SCGbigsad

#

[[avatar kyoshi]]

static gustBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/tla/186/the-legend-of-kyoshi-avatar-kyoshi

The Legend of Kyoshi <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — Draw cards equal to the greatest power among creatures you control.
II — Earthbend X, where X is the number of cards in your hand. That land becomes an Island in addition to its other types.
III — Exile this Saga, then return it to the battlefield transformed under your control.

Avatar Kyoshi
Legendary Creature — Avatar
Lands you control have trample and hexproof.
manat: Add X mana of any one color, where X is the greatest power among creatures you control.
"Only justice will bring peace."
5/4

junior meteor
#

that's not it you bastard bot

short flare
#

Shes an avatar

#

A human avatar

#

lol

junior meteor
#

oh right

#

she is an avatar

#

man i was so excited because one of the issues the deck has sometimes is just like

#

not having enough blue pips

#

so being able to have a guy that lets me fix that is really nice, but also it doesn't work the way i want

short flare
#

Cultivator colossus is another card that I am high on in decks like these

#

Great divide guide is a card that has let me down a bit 🙁

junior meteor
#

what creature type is cultivator

#

[[cultivator colossus]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

ok that was a concern but actually we're fine

short flare
#

I find it to be the best generic tutor target

#

But im not sure the cut for it, if anything

junior meteor
#

yeah, right now when i natural order i'm getting kyoshi or kodama

#

depending on if i have combo or not

#

and both of those are very, very good in this deck

short flare
#

Yeah for sure

#

Do you have a tutorable way to interact with artifacts/enchantments?

junior meteor
#

nope

#

there's options just none in here atm

#

i think generally i like the uhhhh

short flare
#

Yeah im not sure its worht it

#

I have [[insidious fungus]] as my generic option ATM

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

i like insidious fungus or caustic caterpillar

short flare
#

Same

#

Im a little higher on fungus ATM

#

But I often run bith

junior meteor
#

i wouldnt run caterpillar before fungus but it's like, a nice 2nd

#

i also like the artifact creature

#

can't think of it but that's less tutorable

#

since you can't gsz for it

short flare
#

Same

#

Haywire mite

#

not green yeah

junior meteor
#

yeah haywire mite

#

big fan of that card

#

if i could gsz for it i would probably just include it

short flare
#

Same

junior meteor
#

i might still, honestly

#

being able to exile the one ring sounds very nice

#

and it might still be better than Pick Your Poison, if only because i can pay for it off of food chain mana if i have to

#

but i like pyp a lot

short flare
#

Pick your poison is really good, I should run it over nature's claim more

junior meteor
#

yeah, it not targeting is crazy good

#

and also not being destroy

short flare
#

Is food chain our only sac outlet?

junior meteor
#

so im swapping:

  • Summon Valefor for Jill Shiva's Dominant
  • Concordant Crossroads for Glacier Godmaw
  • Springleaf Drum for... ??? Thousand Year or Gene Pollinator
#

Food Chain is an exile outlet but yes

#

other than natural order and disciple of freyalise

junior meteor
#

Oh, I'd also like to find a slot for Reality Shift

#

because I think that card's crazy good

junior meteor
#

I might be dropping Earthbending Student for the Eldritch Evo

#

i think it's incorrect but i can't think of anything else i wanna cut

short flare
#

I almost suggested cutting earthbending student

#

I do think its a hard cut though

junior meteor
#

i think student's very good in the deck with jyoti in the cz

#

and it is very hard to cut something like that

#

i could just drop a forest

short flare
#

In my playtesting I was surprisingly underwhelmed by Kodama but maybe the draws didnt line up

junior meteor
#

go down to 35 lands + 3 mdfc

short flare
#

I do think you're a little land heavy

junior meteor
#

i like being a little heavier on lands

#

but i could just drop a forest to put evo in and keep my earthbending student

#

kodama combos could come out for a bit more interaction

short flare
#

I found myself wanting to tutor for a value piece a lot

junior meteor
#

yeah

short flare
#

Kyoshi seems like a good default for sure

junior meteor
#

that's what i mean, i think she's a really really good default natural order or sylvan tutor target

#

what am i even cutting if i cut kodama

#

is it just tireless provisioner

short flare
#

I wouldnt cut tireless

#

Its a second cobra

junior meteor
#

oh you're right

short flare
#

Thats part of why I was underwhelmed by Kodama

#

I often just had a hand full of spells

junior meteor
#

yeah that was a thing

short flare
#

And no second part of the combo

#

If I had the second part I would be getting springheart anyways

junior meteor
#

i think you're right, maybe it's just kodama out for something

#

and a forest out for evo

short flare
#

I still think another big splashy value/engine drop type card is good though

junior meteor
#

whats that manifest dread card

#

[[abhorrent oculus]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

can i support this?

#

i probably can't

short flare
#

Probably not

junior meteor
#

yeah, im mostly worried about just

#

having 6 things in grave to exile LMAO

short flare
#

Graveyard count

#

Yeah

#

Its not gonna be consistent, i've been down this road

junior meteor
#

also with will of the sultai in deck i can't really afford to burn lands on it

#

the whole point of that card being in the deck is for it to be a ritual so if i start exiling them it goes downhill fast

short flare
#

Yeah

#

I analysed all my hands as if kodama were cultivator collosus and it wasnt really as good here as I expected, I wasnt really sitting on a lot of lands in hand

#

So I don't think thats the answer per se

junior meteor
#

yeah im thinking but im not too positive

#

[[summon titan]] what does this do

static gustBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/fin/204/summon:-titan

Summon: Titan <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment Creature — Saga Giant
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I — Mill five cards.
II — Return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
III — Until end of turn, another target creature you control gains trample and gets +X/+X, where X is the number of lands you control.
Reach, trample
7/7

junior meteor
#

ah it doesn't animate a land

#

thought about maybe mill 5, reclaim, and then animate a land being good enough

short flare
#

Yeah

#

Im always borderline on this thig

junior meteor
#

but this just kinda falls short

#

is it just aesi

#

it can't actually just be aesi

short flare
#

Aesi and cultivator are the two big drops I have in wanderig minstrel

#

Aesi is a little bit of a liability in this deck perhaps

#

Its not a may effect, is it?

#

Aesi is quite good though

#

So is tatyova

#

Aesi obviously better

junior meteor
#

yeah

#

i was just thinking aesi actually does make jyoti draw cards

short flare
#

Actually yeah

#

And its a 6 drop for eldritch evo still

junior meteor
#

yep

#

it's probably just aesi

short flare
#

Thats kinda fun actually

#

Evo for aesi into jyoti

junior meteor
#

yep

short flare
#

I think I might be back on crossroads over the 7 drop guy, or on both

junior meteor
#

also, it makes the jyoti + nantuko thing draw a card every time it activates

short flare
#

The more likely we are to be playing a mediu size value jyoti the better crossroads is

#

Im not really 100% sure still

junior meteor
#

i'm pretty ambivalent between godmaw and crossroads

#

but i do like godmaw being searchable

short flare
#

Yeah

#

I havent had either come up in testing, so i'll reserve a full opinion

#

I wish there was a real tutorable sac outlet

junior meteor
#

wait why

#

oh, so you can sac jyoti to recast?

short flare
#

Yeah

#

I think its pretty easy to be in a spot with 2 cubs

junior meteor
#

i wonder if there's a good way in these colors to do that

short flare
#

There isnt really

junior meteor
#

yeah, just bounces

#

which don't super do it

short flare
#

Well

junior meteor
#

Here's a question, actually, is Clever Imp > Sakashima of a Thousand Faces better here

short flare
#

Does sabertooth

junior meteor
#

sabertooth does it

short flare
#

Do we have it already

junior meteor
#

doesn't increase jyoti's count

#

we don't

#

very notably they decided that jyoti was the only card in mh3 they considered balancing

short flare
#

Yeah I guess the Jyoti number needs to x=3 to break even with a single cub, eh

junior meteor
#

so he does say "number of times you've cast it from the command zone"

short flare
#

A little loose

junior meteor
#

yeah, i don't know if sabertooth is worth it

short flare
#

Na

junior meteor
#

i like the idea of it but also i dont want to cast sabertooth in 2026

short flare
#

Nah nah

#

I think a cheap sac outlet would be

#

A real one that was also a good card, and tutorable

#

We dont have it, so meh

junior meteor
#

yeah, closest is like

short flare
#

The phrexian guy

#

hahahaha

junior meteor
#

what phyrexian guy

short flare
junior meteor
#

there's always [[barrin master wizard]] haha

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

you need 2 cubs for this to go positive

#

but it does go positive at 2 cubs

short flare
#

Impressive stuff

junior meteor
#

it also goes neutral at 1 cub

short flare
#

Its not good

#

I think

junior meteor
#

oh, actually, zopandrel is like

#

not a bad choice

short flare
#

Im not really hating it

junior meteor
#

i don't think it's good but it's like

#

an option

short flare
#

I think a sac outlet is good here, this one is just so clunky

junior meteor
#

if only jyoti were a land

#

it would be so much easier

#

i will not be playing any of the ways to cause this but if he were it would be convenient

short flare
#

Were you on muddle, I forget

junior meteor
#

nope

#

i don't super like muddle and the deck weirdly struggles on blue a lot

short flare
#

Its not weird, UU is hard to produce

#

Pips are a real struggle

junior meteor
#

not green ones

#

this deck prints green pips

short flare
#

Yeah

junior meteor
#

but the blue ones are very hard

short flare
#

My TWM deck is like 80% green pips lol

#

All my lands produce green, it was a clever way to make the manabase playable

#

That being said, muddle is probably good here tbh

#

I do hate fighting pips tho

junior meteor
#

maybe needing to sac jyoti is a good reason to run flare of denial

#

i dont think it is but maybe

short flare
#

Its an unfair card, its just not a powerful one

#

I like it generally

junior meteor
#

again if i was making more blue creatures to sac i would like it more

#

it's just tough

short flare
#

Yeah

#

Flare of cultivation calling your name 😉

junior meteor
#

it is an option

#

okay here's a thing

#

clever imp > sakashima

#

specifically because you can copy jyoti and sac the real one to legend rule

#

??

#

is this anything

#

maybe flare of cult is correct but im unsure

#

i'll try it at some point over will of the sultai or something

junior meteor
#

Yeah okay so the clever imp line is big

#

any haste enabler + intruder alarm + clever imp is infinite mana

#

as long as you have a manland that's blue, which is not hard

#

which means that's also just a kill because you make infinite 1/1s with haste

#

clever imp being jyoti means you just sac the real jyoti

#

same with glasspool mimic, if i had a 3rd clone that wasn't sakashima or spark double that works too

#

literally any clone that doesn't make it nonlegendary and doesn't change its name

#

i know it's not hard to go infinite with intruder alarm but like, still!

short flare
#

Okay yeah, thatts good

#

No thats good

junior meteor
#

if i think im not doing the thing often enough i might throw a 3rd clone in

#

idk what clone #3 is though

short flare
#

Drift if phantasms looking better and better

#

UU i know

junior meteor
#

hmm, i could go with [[gigantoplasm]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

actual reason is that jyoti does have text

short flare
#

Mockingbird?

#

Tough gigantoplasm is actually quite cool

junior meteor
#

and just making him like, a 4/4 or 5/5 means he pumps the board for +4/+4 or +5/+5

#

could go with mge

#

[[machine gods effigy]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

being able to tap for blue is like, not nothing

#

it actually means you'd only need MGE + Intruder Alarm + haste

#

oh wait, no, that doesnt work

#

if jyoti's an artifact he doesnt get untapped from intruder alarm, false alarm

#

could just be a phyrexian metamorph moment

#

holy fuck, wait, hear me out, this is really fucking stupid

#

[[Renegade Doppelganger]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

not only does this work on the jyoti loop, it also gives an extra cub or whatever until end of turn whenever i play those, i don't think this is good but it's very funny

#

it's probably actually just a mirror image or phyrexian metamorph moment or whatever but sometimes we can dream

short flare
#

MGE would be good if it was a creature type

junior meteor
#

yeah

#

the fact that it changes it to an artifact ruins it

#

bc then you can't intruder alarm with it

short flare
#

What do you have know, just spark double?

junior meteor
#

no

#

spark double actually doesnt work

short flare
#

ER not spark double

junior meteor
#

since it would make it nonlegendary

short flare
#

The 2 mana snake head guy

#

And glasspool

junior meteor
#

that doesnt work either!

#

jyoti is a 2/4 😛

#

i have Clever Impersonator and Glasspool, yeah

short flare
#

Flesh duplicate?

#

UU

junior meteor
#

flesh dupe works but you are indeed on a timer

#

and UU is hard

short flare
#

Its probably just phantasmal image

junior meteor
#

phimage is rough since the combo gets shut down on gutshot but it's probably still correct

#

i actually think i just prefer metamorph

#

more flexible

short flare
#

I think if you want to play around that its metamorph or duplicate

junior meteor
#

1 more mana for safety and flexibility is kinda worth it to me

#

and honestly as long as it's cheaper than jyoti it's fine

#

i accept the cost of UU on impersonator becuse it's just

#

so flexible

#

and the point of these clones isnt necessarily to enable this specific loop, that's just a nice byproduct

short flare
#

There's still mocking bird

junior meteor
#

there is, i kinda fucking hate that card but it is also just 1 mana copy ragavan and give him wings

short flare
#

Its one of the best generic clones now

junior meteor
#

and i take that prospect 100% of the time

#

yeah

#

if i made more creatures outside of the combos i would do omnichangeling

#

since it's 0 mana

#

but AGAIN

#

my fucking creatures!

#

they're not blue!

#

they're usually colorless or green SCGbigsad

#

idk im gonna sleep on it

#

it's past midnight i work in the morning

short flare
#

same

thorny plinth
#

[[Deceptive frostkite]] is cheap but very limited

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

I mentioned this above, but I can't run that.

#

Jyoti is a 2/4.

#

For some reason haha

#

(it's because if he was a 4/4 those dryads would be fucking dangerous and Jyoti is the only card in the set they felt like actually putting any time into balancing)

#

Recommander recommended a couple of things for Dark Leo I had totally missed. The big one is [[Cover of Darkness]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

naming ninja on this does just make dark leo unblockable against a pretty huge number of decks

#

It also suggested Sheltered by Ghosts (another banger), Blind Obedience, Call of the Ring, and [[Brilliant Wings]], a card I've never seen.

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

Call of the Ring is cheaper phyrexian arena that eats more life but gives a creature skulk, so it's pretty solid

#

it also suggested Trouble in Pairs and Land Tax, which are neat options.

#

The creature stuff is uninteresting, it'a all stuff that's too expensive (like Grim Hireling) or stuff I've already tried and are taken out for now.

#

It also suggested [[split up]] which is interesting and would bypass the main drawback of Battle of Bywater

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

Another very interesting recommendation is [[Invasion of New Capenna]]

static gustBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/238/invasion-of-new-capenna-holy-frazzle-cannon

Invasion of New Capenna <:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When this Siege enters, you may sacrifice an artifact or creature. When you do, exile target artifact or creature an opponent controls.
Defense: 4

Holy Frazzle-Cannon
Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature and each other creature you control that shares a creature type with it.
Equip mana1
"They're using my Halo stockpile for what?" —Jetmir

junior meteor
#

it has weird anti-synergy, though, in that it's really hard to flip it without being deliberate and also the buff from Holy Frazzle-Cannon would miss the new tokens Leo's putting in

#

A bunch of stuff for Jyoti, although I've heard it struggles with giving good recs to combo decks.

#

how the fuck did i forget An Offer You Can't Refuse

#

it's usually the first card i put in after sol ring arcane signet command tower

#

notlikesinclair one of the first things on the enchantment section is Sylvan Library I'm cooked

thorny plinth
junior meteor
#

its ok 😄

#

Other notable inclusions it suggested:

  • Wan Shi Tong, Librarian (yeah)
  • Tiller Engine (interesting but i don't really do it like that)
  • Enduring Vitality (not sure how i forgot the fucking deer)
  • Sylvan Safekeeper (already in the considering pile but hey)
  • Seedborn Muse / Nyxborn Ancient (another solid topend to natural order into, although I don't think I get a ton out of Muse)
  • Phyrexian Metamorph (the only recommended clone!)
  • The One Ring (wow no shit)
  • Amulet of Vigor (just a bad recommendation, I have basically nothing that comes in tapped)
  • Amphibian Downpour (i forgot my homie pensivecowboy)
  • Walk-in Closet//Forgotten Cellar (didn't know they stapled yawgwill to a crucible)
  • Retreat to Coralheim (weirdly I think this also works with Jyoti, a clone, and a haste enabler? i'd have to do the math)
  • Concordant Crossroads (yeah)
  • Wilderness Reclamation (extremely funny)
  • Legolas's Quick Reflexes (probably worth including if for no other resaon than protecting a cloned jyoti)
  • Sylvan Scrying (yeah i still want this maybe)
  • Invasion of Ikoria (yeah okay it's just another copy of gsz)
#

Math on Retreat to Coralhelm:
Cloned Jyoti, Forest Dryad Token, animated Island, Concordant Crossroads, Retreat to Coralhelm in play.
Cast Jyoti for mana4manaumanag. Jyoti enters. Jyoti ETB trigger goes on the stack, Jyoti dies to Legend Rule.
Jyoti ETB on the stack, tap the animated island and dryad arbor token. manaumanag in pool. Jyoti ETB resolves, creating 2 dryad arbor tokens.
Two Retreat to Coralhelm triggers go on the stack. Tap both Dryad Arbors for managmanag. Coralhelms target a Dryad Arbor, making back managmanag.

#

Nope this doesn't work, I'm going down 2 mana on that first loop already.

short flare
#

I noticed it was missing at some point

junior meteor
#

i think i still like Aesi over nyxbloom ancient

#

and i would definitely never cut any of the existing GCs for seedborn

junior meteor
#

well, spider sense comes out for offer for sure

short flare
#

Thoughts on leyline of abundance

junior meteor
#

in this i think it's probably not great

#

but maybe worth trying at some point

#

im actually very into the idea of just having another way to double my dryad arbor mana

short flare
#

I think its probably very good when naturally drawn at any point, but its hard to say

junior meteor
#

This is, I think, the entire list of things I want to try out

#

ignore the 2 lands i'm just swapping one of each basic for them

short flare
#

Does [[supportive parents]] do anything

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

i don't think so but maybe

short flare
#

Yeah probably not

junior meteor
#

i think the card is really good but most of the creatures i will have every game already tap for mana

junior meteor
#

Well, building Dark Leo is on hiatus until after TMNT previews are done. Looks like they've got a few tricks after all!

#

[[splinter shadow master]] [[the last ronin's technique]] [[ninja teen]] [[splinter's technique]] [[karai future of the foot]]

static gustBOT
#

No card found for “splinter shadow master”

#

https://scryfall.com/card/tmt/151/karai-future-of-the-foot

Karai, Future of the Foot <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Ninja
Sneak mana2manawmanab (You may cast this spell for mana2manawmanab if you also return an unblocked attacker you control to hand during the declare blockers step. She enters tapped and attacking.)
Whenever Karai deals combat damage to a player, return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand. If her sneak cost was paid this turn, instead return that card to the battlefield.
3/3

junior meteor
#

[[shredder shadow]]

static gustBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/tmc/20/shredder-shadow-master

Shredder, Shadow Master <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Ninja
Whenever Shredder attacks a player, for each other opponent, create a token that's a copy of Shredder tapped and attacking that player, except it isn't legendary. Sacrifice those tokens at end of combat.
Whenever Shredder deals combat damage to a player, that player loses half their life, rounded up.
5/5

junior meteor
#

Good news is that Jyoti doesn't have this same issue, and I think literally nothing will change the deck at all.

#

Satya, similarly, probably won't change since the deck is heavy on legendaries and he does not like those

junior meteor
#

deleted the old list for dark leo, just adding the things that are guaranteed to be in the deck and starting a new considering list

#

i have the old decklists as images

junior meteor
#

just looking through otag:gives-evasion f:c id:bw and [[criminal past]] is so fucking close

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

if it didnt give the +x/+0 buff it'd actually be perfect

#

the problem is that will definitely push leo out of delney range

thorny plinth
#

I just noticed something with Dark Leo. [[leonardo, sewer samurai]] lets you sneak it from your GY.

static gustBOT
thorny plinth
#

It lets you cast it normally too, but because sneak is still a cast it should be available in combat during declare blockers.

junior meteor
#

Yep.

#

Similarly I believe [[Lurrus]] does too.

static gustBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den

Lurrus of the Dream-Den <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manawb:292901509044109312><:manawb:292901509044109312>

Legendary Creature — Cat Nightmare
Companion — Each permanent card in your starting deck has mana value 2 or less. (If this card is your chosen companion, you may put it into your hand from outside the game for mana3 as a sorcery.)
Lifelink
Once during each of your turns, you may cast a permanent spell with mana value 2 or less from your graveyard.
3/2

junior meteor
#

Yep.

junior meteor
#

Here's where we're at right now.

#

If it wasn't for the fact that this deck really wants Bloodchief Ascension, can you imagine how crazy Mindcrank goes in this

#

make someone lose 19 life, they immediately mill 19 cards

#

I also didn't realize I had other options for doublestrike

#

Fireshrieker might not be the play in this

#

[[Flaming Fist]] is pretty great.

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

only reason im leaning on it is that equips are more easily searchable

#

and im for sure already running at least Silver Shroud Costume and Brotherhood Regalia

#

I do like this core creature list though

#

very lean

dapper mortar
#

I was in the other thread because I didn’t realize you had this

junior meteor
#

ahaha it's ok

#

[[turtle lair]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

[[endless foot assault]]

static gustBOT
thorny plinth
#

Endless foot assault may almost be too good

junior meteor
#

yeah

#

god, you know who loves that though

#

marneus calgar

#

who suddenly gets to ancestral every combat

dapper mortar
#

Nah

#

I don’t think

#

[[marneus calgar]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

oh it's one or more

dapper mortar
#

Oh wait

junior meteor
#

nevermind it's only one

dapper mortar
#

You’d at least draw for each squaded enchantment

junior meteor
#

yeah

dapper mortar
#

Like if you squad this twice, you’d ancestral each turn

junior meteor
#

what i need is a way to put the enchant back in my hand

#

is there any way to do that in BW

#

bc im liable to just go 1 drop -> dark leo -> endless foot assault

#

but later i might want to be able to squad it

tranquil onyx
#

I am here now too because apparently I wasn’t

tranquil onyx
dapper mortar
static gustBOT
dapper mortar
#

yeah

#

And [[blood clock]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

yeah, those seem fine but they're a little weird, even like a whitemane lion i think is preferable

#

[[whitemane lion]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

not this exact card but you know the effect

short flare
#

They've printed this one a LOT

junior meteor
#

yeah, i just gotta find one im happy with, preferably that is not mandatory

#

in case i need to just drop a creature for sneak

#

[[nuturing pixie]] is like, probably actually the answer

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

has flying, it's 1 mana, hits anything i need to bump to hand other than lands?

#

other answer is [[sunpearl kirin]] but i dont like this one

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

Current rebuild.

dapper mortar
#

Fank yew

#

So this is, what - ninjas and general attacky stuff?

#

Where the hell my Breena at

junior meteor
#

not really ninjas

#

the ninjas that are in there because they're also just good cards

#

rather than inclusions for being ninjas

#

they get some points for increasing the ninja count for dark leo, but if they weren't good they wouldn't be in

dapper mortar
#

Right

junior meteor
#

dark leo produces ninjas fast enough on his own that it's not super relevant

dapper mortar
#

[[skrelv defector]] is another good mom

static gustBOT
dapper mortar
#

Also has a secondary win con if relevant

#

Any care for some double strike?

junior meteor
#

i dont really like skrelv, i tried him with the old build and he felt bad

#

i actually already have some, but im waiting on doublestrike

#

because there are a few options and i wanna make sure im not self-investing in ones that i could do better otherwise

dapper mortar
#

Oh the deck’s at 59 cards

junior meteor
#

like [[flaming fist]] is pretty good but if i end up running shredder it'd rather have fireshrieker

static gustBOT
dapper mortar
#

I saw 24 lands and had a stroke

junior meteor
#

yeah it's a rebuild

#

it's going up to 32ish probably + mdfcs

dapper mortar
#

Yeah, however many mdfcs you run I highly recommend st least 34

junior meteor
#

it's a low-to-the-ground deck so

dapper mortar
#

Probably only max 2 that always enter tapped

junior meteor
#

if i run shredder i might go up some

#

i honestly kinda don't think i want him though

dapper mortar
#

2 mana shredder is good. Like good good

junior meteor
#

5 mana shredder is 🙁

#

he does a thing i like

#

he does not do it at a price i like

dapper mortar
#

Ye

junior meteor
#

and he's WAY harder to make unblockable

#

you can't skulk him, you can't give him ringbearer, you can't use access tunnel

dapper mortar
#

[[super shredder]] fwiw

static gustBOT
dapper mortar
#

This card slaps

#

Like fucking rip to tarmogoyf for sure

junior meteor
#

he might end up in, im a little worried about my ability to actually capitalize on him

dapper mortar
#

Got fetches, tokens, treasures, mutagens, etc

junior meteor
#

i might be on skullclamp

#

i dont know

#

if i am, i'm also on [[cloud midgar mercenary]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

because that combo is fucking hilarious

#

extremely cheap hand refill and i get my engine? fuck yeah

#

which then means i might want fireshrieker since it's an equip

#

but also, it's the most expensive doublestrike option

#

by a lot

#

flaming fist, duelist heritage, battle mastery, and twinblade blessing are all 3 mana

dapper mortar
junior meteor
#

im not, but i probably am on him if i run skullclamp, for the cheap draw 4

#

double white is rough but the deck's always gonna be white-heavy

peak shuttle
#

[[Tegan Jovanka]] or [[Hardened Survivor]] maybe?

static gustBOT
#

No card found for “Hardened Survivor”

peak shuttle
#

[[Hardened Escort]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

I don't think those are really where I want to be on things

junior meteor
#

To add more context here, they don't really provide anything outside of the indestructible, which with such a cheap commander I'm mostly unbothered, and they have an issue where they can be functionally blank if I have any other +1/+x effect because Delney, the most important card in the deck, won't double my commander's triggers if he's got more than 2 power.

#

I do, however, think Nuturing Pixie is potentially extremely good, especially with Delney, as being able to pay for it with Mox Amber, drop it to pick up Endless Foot Assault AND Mox Amber, have a 3/3 flyer, then recast Mox Amber sounds very good. Even outside of that, picking up other ETB targets or things like Karai is pretty great.

#

[[Nuturing Pixie]]

static gustBOT
junior meteor
peak shuttle
#

Niceu!

junior meteor
#

Lost tonight on Jyoti. Some concerns if I pick it for my deck for the first month:

  • Rounds are timed. This deck doesn't win fast unless I draw food chain. I'm probably drawing every single round.
  • Holy fuck am I soft to any boardwipe, I forgot how bad it is.
#

I was like, chilling on Evendo and a Sol Ring as my only real ramp and after the 2nd boardwipe I could no longer cast Jyoti, had 2 cards in hand, and there was just no recovering.

#

I do think I made a mistake at one point, I eldritch evo'd a disciple of freyalise into avatar kyoshi, but i think it'd have been better to go into Aesi.

short flare
#

When does the first month start

junior meteor
#

March 1st.

#

I'm thinking I might just build something relaxing like [[Pashalik Mons]] but i will not enjoy it particularly well

static gustBOT
junior meteor
#

not a ton of points of interaction in goblins usually

short flare
#

Just turbo snoop or what?

junior meteor
#

idk about turbo

short flare
#

I think a second color benefits cobbos a lot

junior meteor
#

it's still b3 so

short flare
#

Turbo is relative

#

ALways

junior meteor
#

turbo meaning t6 snoop yeah

#

i like pash in the cz since it lets you play the grindier games more easily

#

obv i'd like to avoid them but pash still has value in turbo too, since infinite dudes (even if they're tapped) are still infinite damage with pash in the cz and a prospector

#

i really don't love turbo though, but with there needing to be timed rounds i also don't think i should be playing anything that slow

short flare
#

I think grindy combo is the place to be

#

Im a little worried about the turn timers too if I join, ive been thinkig about it

#

I do think goblins are a good place to be by the way

#

They're fast and have cheese potential

junior meteor
#

yeah, i think so too

#

I'm just worried with like Auntie Ool or whatever that I'll add in the good black goblins cards that happen to also combo with half of the goblins that have ever existed and just be too much

short flare
#

Thats my fear too

#

In my B3 fast goblins decks i've only tested up to snoop + kiki, but not with harbinger/gamble/recruiter/etc etc

#

I've always been scared that it would be too fast

junior meteor
#

sylvan and worldly tutor too

short flare
#

Yeah

junior meteor
#

i mean if im in goblins im gonna be on recruiter, i simply cannot not

short flare
#

Yeah, but then recruiter is a crazy fast solo goldfish

#

Im not saying its impossible but it scared me

junior meteor
#

yeah, it's literally turn 2 cast recruiter t3 draw snoop

#

well, even then, it actually has to live a round

short flare
#

Yeah

#

See my fear isnt that its gonna literally play too fast, my fear is that im going to be stuck sandbagging

#

Because realistically thats a super weak to interaction (sort of) line, but forces them to have it by 4 (sort of)