elder stream
the deck - https://moxfield.com/decks/n7ncMX3UIUGAprhOTVRaaA
This is my first time making a commander deck, mostly rummaged through other deck lists and stole what i thought was good cards. I dont know if this deck is even good honestly, I think it is as someone with next to none in experience lol. If anyone has any replacement suggestions that save a good bit of money id greatly appreciate it, or if this deck is just bad and you ways to improve it please do tell.
this isnt meant to be highly competitive or anything, just fun with friends
fierce dragon
good to see you posted a list, let's start cookin
mana and lands are the first place to start
we want to minimize the number of lands that only ever come in tapped unless they have some additional utility. thus first on the chopping block are forsaken sanc, orzhov guildgate, thriving moor/heath
[[caves of koilos]] and [[desolate mire]] are cheap lands that come in untapped all the time
[[sunlit marsh]] and [[snowfield sinkhole]] come in tapped, but have the benefit of having basic land types. this helps the snarl land, but also other ramp cards we'll look at later
viscid shoreBOT
Land
: Add 
.
: Add 
or 
. Caves of Koilos deals 1 damage to you.
After years of silence, the caves once again echo with the grisly sounds of Phyrexians preparing for war.
Land
, : Add .
Silence, the poetry of a whispering wind, the centurial fall of tar on pale sand.
Land — Plains Swamp
(: Add or .)
Sunlit Marsh enters tapped.
Even the poisoned land around the Stronghold blossomed with new life in the wake of the Great Mending.
Snow Land — Plains Swamp
(: Add or .)
Snowfield Sinkhole enters tapped.
"Young Vitima bellowed to the Cosmos, daring the gods to punish her hubris! Well, she got their attention, as you can see." —Iskene, Kannah storyteller
fierce dragon
here is a search i used to find these lands https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3Aland+fo%3A{W}+fo%3A{B}+usd<1.5+ci%3Awb&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
lastly, i would say secluded steppe can be replaced by [[orzhov basilica]], which functionally draws you a land while still hitting a land drop
viscid shoreBOT
Land
Orzhov Basilica enters tapped.
When Orzhov Basilica enters, return a land you control to its owner's hand.
: Add .
fierce dragon
looking at mana and ramp, white has access to some great catchup land ramp. [[knight of the white orchid]] and [[claim jumper]] can grab any plains, meaning it can get the dual typed sunlit marsh and snowfield we mentioned before or even grab a regular plains untapped. it is usually not hard to set up these cards to work, especially when there are green players at the table.
to find room for these, i would consider some of the rocks like mind stone and commander's sphere
fierce dragon
next onto removal and utility spells
the selected copy of swords to plowshares is a little pricey and you could probably find one for closer to a dollar
that said you could consider a more flexible and more on theme piece of interaction like [[angelic purge]]
viscid shoreBOT
fierce dragon
it's not quite as efficient and it is sorcery speed but the flexibility in hitting artifacts and enchantments as well is quite nice. it's also incredibly cheap price wise
plumb the forbidden is a fine card, but not strictly necessary as a sac outlet
[[deadly dispute]] is a little bit cheaper and functions as another copy of village rites
viscid shoreBOT
Instant
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice an artifact or creature.
Draw two cards and create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
"That's a pretty ring! Trade you my knife for it."
elder stream
Wow, thanks. This helps a lot
fierce dragon
here's a list of sacrifice outlets for under $1 that draw cards
huh idk why your copy of plumb is listed at $2
elder stream
There’s a lot of crap in there that probably gets cheaper, when I went to card kingdom all of it combined ended up at about 70-80 I think
fierce dragon
still, i think deadly dispute has its upsides gaining a treasure, though plumb being a flexible outlet is also neat
elder stream
I don’t know how to choose specific copies or what not
fierce dragon
i don't think this deck really needs dark ritual, you're not powering out some big combo usually
looking at your board wipes, damn feels a bit pricey
[[decree of pain]] is mana intensive, but draws you a ton of cards (also super cheap price wise)
viscid shoreBOT
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated. Draw a card for each creature destroyed this way.
Cycling 
(, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
When you cycle Decree of Pain, all creatures get -2/-2 until end of turn.
fierce dragon
single target creature only removal is lackluster, so i'd cut fell. i don't love bone shards or final veng either, but they're at least sac outlets which are on theme and vengeance also exiles which is valuable
finally your creatures
elenda is a tad pricey, but she's sort of irreplaceable for what she does
elder stream
looking at your board wipes, damn feels a bit pricey
Yeah there was only two I put in there I think, but damn seemed to sort of be good enough to warrant the price. Really valuable to have a board wipe that’s not dead in hand if you don’t want to wipe the board, right? Cause I mean, ideal scenario you shouldn’t have to wipe it
fierce dragon
your copy of carion feeder is a bit pricey, but i think i prefer [[bartolome del presidio]] anyway for an inexpensive free sac outlet
viscid shoreBOT
fierce dragon
here are some other options to consider under $2 https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Afree-sacrifice-outlet+otag%3Asacrifice-outlet-creature+ci%3Awb+usd<2+mv<3&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
elder stream
your copy of carion feeder is a bit pricey, but i think i prefer [[bartolome del...
I think I put both in there
fierce dragon
oh so you did, must of missed that
in the category of "do stuff when things die", we just got another printing of [[blood artist]] so it should be cheap
viscid shoreBOT
elder stream
I didn’t think that blood artist and similar cards were too good
I specifically avoided target player loses 1 and kept to each player loses 1
I might be wrong idk
It just feels weak to me
fierce dragon
it adds up fast and it's only 1 mana
you're getting double triggers from teysa, etc
old galleon
looking at mana and ramp, white has access to some great catchup land ramp. [[kn...
Also [[sand scout]] with arid archway
viscid shoreBOT
elder stream
it adds up fast and it's only 1 mana
I guess, another question though, how many sac outlets/pay off like that should I even included?
Cause mid way through building the original list I had a kind of epiphany that I was adding so much pay off and so little fuel
old galleon
Also good if you're running lazotep quarry still
fierce dragon
quarry is slightly on the pricier end for a pure budget list, but yeah it's good
fierce dragon
I guess, another question though, how many sac outlets/pay off like that should ...
i don't have a magic number off hand, but you generally want more fodder than pay offs
things that can do both are particularly valuable like [[woe strider]]
viscid shoreBOT
Creature — Horror
When Woe Strider enters, create a 0/1 white Goat creature token.
Sacrifice another creature: Scry 1.
Escape—, Exile four other cards from your graveyard. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its escape cost.)
Woe Strider escapes with two +1/+1 counters on it.
3/2
elder stream
Yeah idk I might have to go back and look at the distribution of fodder : sac outlets : pay off
fierce dragon
yeah that's the delicate balance in aristocrat decks
with a bit of tuning you might be able to fit in [[teysa orzhov scion]], which performs triple duty of sac outlet, removal, and token generator
viscid shoreBOT
elder stream
I think I already have that in the list as well
fierce dragon
oh lol i should read the full list lol
yeah honestly at this point it will be hard to trim the last few expensiveish cards since they're uniquely good
though carrion feeder should be like $1 instead of $3.50
elder stream
yeah honestly at this point it will be hard to trim the last few expensiveish ca...
Yeah it sucks that I couldn’t get this deck any cheaper
I like the price of the cheaper precons but don’t enjoy their commanders lol, the enjoyable commanders to me are in the more expensive ones
Spending $70 on cardboard + $15 x 2 for sleeves + deck box hurts
old galleon
15 x 2 for sleeves?
old galleon
Oh gotcha, yeah 😔
elder stream
Ik the sleeves weren’t exactly 15, more like 13 or something
fierce dragon
i think we trimmed at least like $10 with the swap and acknowledging you have expensive printings in here
elder stream
I think when I originally put the deck in card kingdom I ended up with around a 80 dollar price so yeah the cuts were nice
Still at $70 afterwards though lol
fierce dragon
and we could say the basics are functionally free if you scrounge around, so that's another couple bucks (idk moxfield counts them in the total price)
fierce dragon
i guess another strategy is to just see if people at your LGS have bulk they're willing to get away
and you'll probably find some of these cards
the cost will then be in time lol
elder stream
Maybe
Tbh I don’t even know of a card store near me
Me and my friends just play in school and at his house
They might have some crap to spare
old galleon
They might have extra basics and such
elder stream
Yeah
old galleon
I mooch off of my friend's basics all the time
elder stream
This hobby has no right being as expensive as it is man….
old galleon
Your deck is around hte price of a AAA game, that seems somewhat reasonable to me tbh. That's roughly a precon price too.
I agree on the whole though
elder stream
It just depends on how much use I get out of it
Ik a triple A game I can easily play for hundreds of hours
10 hours a day for weeks in a row
I know damn well I’ll be dropping $100 on deluxe mh wilds for example and I will have zero regrets
So when I compare the $100 total spent on the deck + accessories to that
I don’t feel good
It is what it is though no use in complaining
fierce dragon
there is the option of just playing digitally or proxying all the cards
print your own deck for like $10-15, don't even bother with sleeving
and at that point you can go hog wild with card value
near sonnet
Hello! I was interested on this some days ago, and someone gave me that one: https://archidekt.com/decks/6563886/wear_black_teysa_karlov_55
how do you see it?? @fierce dragon Do it got "easy" upgrads?
fierce dragon
Hello! I was interested on this some days ago, and someone gave me that one: htt...
probably stroke over midnight over disenchant. being able to hit creatures is probably worth the extra mana and making a 1/1
besides that there's a lot of fine cards in there. at this point you'd had to test to see how it performs in your pods and what cards you do or don't like
near sonnet
well, im about to buy it, so its hard tot est
not sure what should be the starter "price" to be able to check and after that upgrade
change things
fierce dragon
well the original list in this thread was around $50-60. the list you posted has some super expensive printings so if cost is a concern you could swap those out
fierce dragon
teysa naturally lends herself to aristo so most lists will lean in that direction yeah
near sonnet
And if we talk about "expensives" card, that could be worth, do you got some on mind?
