Oh, wait. I forgot I was removing innkeeper’s talent
#Ms. Bumbleflower: Communal Brewing
pastel agate
rough dove
Yeah innkeeper is definitely for a +1/1 build, not the dreamtide build
Mangara didn't really perform well for me tbh
solemn hamlet
Mangara is basically crept out by Ledger Shredder/Pollywog/TiP at this point haha
rough dove
So question, why Evolution Witness over Fathom Mage?
solemn hamlet
I'm experimenting with Noxious Revival/Skullwinder for further card recursion. I've often wanted to grab back an instant or sorcery but cant with Evo witness(I don't own a snapcaster mage)
rough dove
[[ojer pakpatiq, deepest epoch]] is something I'm trying to work in myself.
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — God
Flying
Whenever you cast an instant spell from your hand, it gains rebound. (Exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast it from exile without paying its mana cost.)
When Ojer Pakpatiq dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control with three time counters on it.
4/3
Temple of Cyclical Time
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Pakpatiq, Deepest Epoch.)
: Add 
. Remove a time counter from Temple of Cyclical Time.
, : Transform Temple of Cyclical Time. Activate only if it has no time counters on it and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec time. Ojer Pakpatiq gave them the tools to learn its lessons.
rough dove
Doubles up removal, gives "free" stuff to cast on your turn
Acts as pseudo ramp if killed as well
solemn hamlet
Oh I kinda like that
Helps you double spell super easily
Getting the double spell online right after casting Ms. B is sometimes a hit or a miss for me
My curve isn't very high either, but not like a cantrip build
rough dove
My thoughts exactly, its not a "win more" card in Bumbleflower, but another value piece that is more resilent than our other value tools
[[ojer kaslem, deepest growth]] has done great things for me as well
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — God
Trample
Whenever Ojer Kaslem deals combat damage to a player, reveal that many cards from the top of your library. You may put a creature card and/or a land card from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom in a random order.
When Ojer Kaslem dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control.
6/5
Temple of Cultivation
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Kaslem, Deepest Growth.)
: Add 
.
, : Transform Temple of Cultivation. Activate only if you control ten or more permanents and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec sacred lands. Ojer Kaslem brought them to life.
rough dove
Their midrange power and sticky nature makes them very nice.
solemn hamlet
Giving him flying pretty much means you'll connect somewhere
rough dove
Exactly, coupled with trample deals with one of Bumbleflower's weaknesses (lack of trample if against a flying oriented deck)
solemn hamlet
https://scryfall.com/card/lci/67/ojer-pakpatiq-deepest-epoch-temple-of-cyclical-...
Maybe [[six]] is better for this actually
brave folioBOT
rough dove
Ojer > Six in terms of value. I don't often have permanents in the yard in the earlier portions of the game, late game I'm drawing so much that I'm aiming to vomit more value out quick. Ojer Kas is a huge threat in allowing me to vomit an extra land and creature every turn it can connect. Basically reads "if this isn't blocked, play a creature and a land from your library". I count the two card thinning as minimum 2 mana + mana value of the creature. At two attacks it's paid for itself. If it eats a destroy spell, it's a crappy three visits that in 2 turns can become a creature again fairly easily.
Then as an added benefit, the 2 cards of thinning means the instants/sorceries I want to draw become more likely in the card pool.
Instead of Six where I have to worry about a key protection/removal piece getting yarded.
pastel agate
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
rough dove
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
(Ojer is ~5% weaker for your build because the planewalkers)
pastel agate
Yeah, I’m just thinking through some deck heuristics and philosophy
More foundational ideas
My deck isn’t necessarily planeswalkers, but control does do very well with planeswalkers as a way to finish out the game
Because ideally you’re keeping your opponents off your back so you end up easily building loyalty
Six is great for buying back permanents but tbh, I’d rather run evo wit over six since you don’t have to go card negative to get more cards
rough dove
Me :: "I'm going to try and combo Jin Gitaxis, Ojer Pak, and Perch Protection to give somebody 4 turns and have 16 32 birbs"
rough dove
I've won every single game I've played Perch Protection.
No joke, card is running a 100% winrate for me
pastel agate
You probably would have done better with a tef pro
Unless your play group just has no clue how to play against it
rough dove
You probably would have done better with a tef pro
The birds are what does it tbh
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Blech
rough dove
Spread on 4 flying bodies, yeah! Especially when you cast a board wipe into Perch. chefs kiss
nothing better than responding to everyone else's spells and then randomly on your turn in main phase two just blowing everything up and disappearing until your next turn.
pastel agate
I am glad it’s working for you then
rough dove
[[thundertrap trainer]] and [[Silundi Vision]] are nice top deck manipulation I've been tinkering with.
brave folioBOT
Creature — Otter Wizard
Offspring 
(You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, when this creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
When this creature enters, look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal a noncreature, nonland card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
1/2
Instant
Look at the top six cards of your library. You may reveal an instant or sorcery card from among them and put it into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
"Feel the current? Rough waters lie ahead." —Jori En, expedition leader
Silundi Isle
Land
Silundi Isle enters tapped.
: Add .
"From the hedron fields of Agadeem to the Faduun of Jwar Isle, the islands of the Silundi Sea offer one mystery after another." —Jori En, expedition leader
rough dove
[[valley floodcaller]] as a way to turn the enchantments into plays on opponent's turns
brave folioBOT
rough dove
And look at that hot synergy with perch protection! xD
(major sarcasm if you cant tell)
I'd honestly play leyline if I had it over floodcaller tbh
pastel agate
This is the kind of card that will either be actually dogshit like I say it is or I’ll look like an idiot later when it’s actually goated
Sorry, perch protection that is
I do like myself some MDFCs
My landbase is pretty tight but going down in basics isn’t something I’m against
rough dove
[[ondu inversion]] has come in handy for me
brave folioBOT
Sorcery
Destroy all nonland permanents.
"At first rumble you'd best hold on tight and pray to any gods you still hold dear." —Nys Dal, Sea Gate trapfinder
Ondu Skyruins
Land
Ondu Skyruins enters tapped.
: Add 
.
"It always seems so quiet in the aftermath of wrenching violence." —Nys Dal, Sea Gate trapfinder
pastel agate
I’m very against symmetrical board wipes tbh
I want to be ahead with all of them
No need to lose card advantage by wiping
rough dove
BUT
Would you rather have just a plains? Or a tap plains that can potentially be a symmetrical boardwipe?
😛
pastel agate
“Oh but it’s actually a land in a trenchcoat” yeah, but it’s either a tapped land or a card I don’t want ro cast
Plains enters untapped
solemn hamlet
I've won every single game I've played Perch Protection.
This is a bit surprising to me. I haven't had a chance where casting it would necessarily give me an out... it usually spells my doom after I phase back in
pastel agate
Both halves of inversion are things I don’t want
pastel agate
This is a bit surprising to me. I haven't had a chance where casting it would ne...
So we’re at a 50/50 on anecdotes now lol
This is interesting data to see though
rough dove
Depends on the build and pilot usage.
I don't play it every game I have it, but when I do, it's winning.
Take my last game for example. I made a deal with the Eldrazi player that he had to use annihilator swings on the blue player to cripple them. My turn rolls around with a protected freestrider, so I double approach for the win while using politics to cripple the only person who had the ability to stop the combo.
It's contextual of when to play it each and every game, and the biggest skill check is figuring out who to give the extra turn.
Ideally you want to use it once one person has been knocked out to force the other two to kill each other. Betting on which pony will win the race can be an interesting call.
In a sense, I use it as "psychological goad".
“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Don't phase out looking like you about to slap somebody to death with commander is a huge thing. Phasing out before you have the pieces together means you were playing from behind to begin with.
So knowing how the other players perceive your phasing is critical to success
"Oh they only has Bumbleflower as an 8/13 and branching evolutions. I'll be able to kill them after they phase in so I'm going to use this extra turn to kill my other opponent."
Only to cast nerd rage on bumbleflower when you have 9 cards in hand, using some removal to kill off any flying blockers, and swinging for 22 commander in the air.
I favor a bunch of deck thinning/manipulation value pieces because I have a goal of getting my overall game drawn/played ratio of cards to above 50% for an average (So I see 49+ cards out of the deck in any game by turn 10).
And when I give up on that, I'll grab seedborn muse and capsize and bring some much deserved payback to a person in my pod.
@pastel agate thoughts on [[portent of calamity]]?
brave folioBOT
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
Because that’s effectively the same thing
5 mana for a baby augury
Or 8 mana for a worse augury
rough dove
Run both, hit augury with portent for maximum profits.
pastel agate
Somewhere between those two numbers is where you wanna play that card
untold oxide
Probably very good if we spec into more scrying and higher mv spells with low pip counts
rough dove
I have two wolves inside me. One that says I should use the math to make Bumbleflower hyper optimized because it can be. The other side sees the amount of cards types and is like "why not toss 2 battles in and make it a clown show?"
untold oxide
I have two wolves inside me. One that says I should use the math to make Bumblef...
For. Real.
My head wants to optimise but I feel like I shouldn’t.
rough dove
I look at Umaru's planewalkers and kinda want to do "Oops, all tamiyos!"
Hell on my latest round of changes I tossed in [[morska]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Vedalken Fish Detective
You have no maximum hand size.
At the beginning of your upkeep, investigate. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
Whenever you draw your second card each turn, put two +1/+1 counters on Morska, Undersea Sleuth.
2/3
pastel agate
Tamiyo is an awesome character
Also, flip tamiyo is perfect for this deck
1 mana to trigger bunny and flips the turn it comes down if you cast it first
rough dove
1 mana to trigger bunny and flips the turn it comes down if you cast it first
It's just free real estate
Gotta take it
I think this weekend I'm going to crunch some numbers and figure out what my "power level 8" bumbleflower finalized list looks like. So to everyone who asks for my moxfield, soon.
Gotta work in Ojer Pak and test it in some games.
pastel agate
Based
rough dove
Oh, one card that has consistently been my 101st card that barely gets cut...
[[the pride of hullclade]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Crocodile Elk Turtle
This spell costs 
less to cast, where X is the total toughness of creatures you control.
Defender
: Until end of turn, target creature you control gets +1/+0, gains "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, draw cards equal to its toughness," and can attack as though it didn't have defender.
2/15
pastel agate
4 mana is rough for not-a-spell
rough dove
Its a pipe dream, but one day, I'll make that Crocodile Elk Turtle fly and smack somebody
This is my timmy card, because man, that value payoff of at least 15 cards drawn.
It doesnt kill people
It doesnt win on the spot
But its definitely funny
pastel agate
We don’t care about killing people, just drawing cards
Bunny will just let you win at that point
rough dove
Oh yeah, which is why this always gets cut because it almost never gets to draw >.>
For now it lurks in my mothman deck as a dummy thick wall
I regularly play against xenagos, so the need for high toughness is real in my local pod.
glossy fox
your actually adding it?
solemn hamlet
My head wants to optimise but I feel like I shouldn’t.
I think the best thing you can do is run optimal draw engines, a healthy amount of veggies then just flex some slots for fun stuff. Then you can hang a lot of the time because you'll at least have a very high chance of getting your thing going
pastel agate
Yeah, very high card velocity is important for bumbleflower
If you’re stuck with one spell in your hand then you’re in for a real bad time
solemn hamlet
Like my list is FAR from optimal but because I put most of the power into the draw engines I really am able to get going every game
I'm thinking of going up on hard interaction though. Maybe a Galadriels dismissal and I'm still missing an esper sentinel
pastel agate
[[galadriel’s dismissal]]
brave folioBOT
Instant
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Target creature phases out. If this spell was kicked, each creature target player controls phases out instead. (Treat phased-out creatures and anything attached to them as though they don't exist until their controller's next turn.)
pastel agate
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I wish it wasn’t just creatures
In this case I honestly prefer [[clever concealment]]
brave folioBOT
Instant
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 
or one mana of that creature's color.)
Any number of target nonland permanents you control phase out. (Treat them and anything attached to them as though they don't exist until your next turn.)
pastel agate
Beeg fliers usually don’t have to worry about getting through boards
glossy fox
[[talon gates of madara]]?
brave folioBOT
Land — Gate
When Talon Gates of Madara enters, up to one target creature phases out.
: Add 
.
, : Add one mana of any color.
: Put Talon Gates of Madara from your hand onto the battlefield.
solemn hamlet
I like the flex of it. Most of my important stuff is creatures and it can also be a fog or a combo stopper for an opponent
glossy fox
its not a mass phase out thing but its stil good
pastel agate
Talon gates is one of those cards that could get added to literally every deck
Which.. eh
glossy fox
Talon gates is one of those cards that *could* get added to literally every deck
fair
[[emrakuls messenger]] exists as well if your drawing more than one card each turn
brave folioBOT
Creature — Eldrazi Faerie Rogue
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Flying
Whenever you draw your second card each turn, create a 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature token with "Sacrifice this creature: Add ."
"Obey her will! Don't be a fool! Submit your mind to Emrakul!"
2/1
daring ether
Amphibian Downpour is still gas at storm count 1 right?
solemn hamlet
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/8612729/ms_b_stirs_the_pot
Played some games and adjusted Bunny Aikido.
Man I love playing Bumbleflower, it's such a puzzle every time with this list.
pastel agate
Okay so I’m just straight pulling the trigger
I need suggestions to make bunny as gross as possible
Nadu is going back in, so is smothering tithe
Deck is gonna be relegated to high power
She ended up making a very close game in a high power table which tells me I’m simply pubstomping casual tables
And don’t wanna do that but i don’t want to power down
solemn hamlet
You could go the combo route
pastel agate
Ehhh you’re right
solemn hamlet
Uba Mask, Ranger Captain of Eos, Aluren, Shrieking Drake, etc
pastel agate
Frankly I wanna keep the wincon the same
Not making it cedh
Just do more of the stuff I’ve been doing
solemn hamlet
Ahh
Probably a decent amount of free interaction still
Do you have Mockingbird in your list?
glossy fox
Okay so I’m just straight pulling the trigger
rhystic study
pastel agate
Do you have Mockingbird in your list?
I do yeh
pastel agate
rhystic study
Yeh it’ll get added
cursive egret
Went pretty hard in 2 games yesterday but the whole table got otk'd in each with Triumph of the Hordes and Spellpingers respectively.
Pir and Toothy were very good, my take aways were that I was begging for a board wipe both times and kept spending my mana every one of my turns so I'm considering a couple of the former and for the latter maybe SoFaF/Wilderness Rec
Thoughts on cheap MV wrath's vs 1-sided but expensive?
pastel agate
Thoughts on cheap MV wrath's vs 1-sided but expensive?
I’m extremely partial to 1 sided since the deck is extremely permanent heavy.
I’m partial to 1 sided anyway but yeah
At the very least, you want the symmetrical ones to let you exclude some subsection. That’s why I am biased on [[austere command]]
brave folioBOT
cursive egret
I’m extremely partial to 1 sided since the deck is extremely permanent heavy.
Yeah I agree with that, and the proportion of favour to Ezuri's Predation in this thread clued me in to that. It might just be super slept on but I think I see more support for it here than in the wild. Y'all might have turned me tbf.
can we get a White [[Mandate of Abaddon]] please XD
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
[[Willbreaker]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
Guys Willbreaker is SICK
glossy fox
Evil
zenith zodiac
Deck is gonna be relegated to high power
would be interested to see your high powered list
pastel agate
I’ll have to put it together! I’m still in the brain brewing phase
I have a list of cards I’m considering cutting so I’ll let you all in on that
pastel agate
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B8zzpDQtNkGBPXpSWrXH8w
@zenith zodiac, @untold oxide, @solemn hamlet, @cursive egret, @daring ether, @rough dove, @sturdy tiger
Here’s the updates
So my gameplan is basically still to kill with bunbleflower, for now
But I want to get to that big storm turn much quicker
daring ether
I don’t think we’re a pact of negation deck.
daring ether
Subtlety is alright. It’s low investment to run with how much draw we have.
pastel agate
you should have enlightened tutor too
I’m not gonna lie
I am woefully bad at building high pwoer
Cedh is ez because you just netdeck whatever looks good
Casual is ez because I’ve been doing it a long time
I suppose finale of devastation should be in
I am very much at y’all’s whim on this one
pastel agate
Homie we’re trying to cook, not burn it /s
pastel agate
Ah nah that one’s been on the block too
pastel agate
I see why on that one
solemn hamlet
That could go for more interaction
pastel agate
Does commander still do the rawdog [[counterspell]]?
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
I just wouldn’t know what to slap in for council
solemn hamlet
I'd say, maybe straight up Silence. You can slam it on your storming off turn and just cast spells without sweating for other people's interaction
solemn hamlet
Well if you're running finale of dev Ranger captain is nice
pastel agate
Why specifically because of finale?
Also is there a tutor targer we could include for captain?
solemn hamlet
Mockingbird's there
pastel agate
Ooooh yeah!
Could even copy captain lmao
One aggressive silence and one protective
solemn hamlet
Homie we’re trying to cook, not burn it /s
I would like to revist this 🤣 There's a pretty big value proposition to having access to the flash immediately, and potentially turn zero... With high power leading to quicker games I really think Heliod may be a dead card a lot of the time
pastel agate
Maaaybe, but imagine the stonks
Okay so here’s an idea
Okay nah nvm my idea was dumb
I was thinking going all in on Nadu
Get him, and basically just ride him to victory with bumble, but also include a few pieces thag work primarily with Nadu
solemn hamlet
👎
pastel agate
Yeah lol
daring ether
It definitely works, but that’s more of a Derevi thing.
pastel agate
Ah that makes a lot more sense
solemn hamlet
I think... You could do with an emergency combo button too if you have Silence effects. But it could end up being a bit too pushed although idk your high power meta
daring ether
Hullbreaker Horror maybe?
pastel agate
Hmmmmmmm, bounce combo you think?
daring ether
Hullbreaker + Cloud of Faeries mills the table.
pastel agate
Problem is bunny would feed the table all of their interaction
solemn hamlet
Well
daring ether
And leaves them with 0 cards on board while you do it
solemn hamlet
That's why you have ranger captain and silence
Those inclusions kind of love having a combo
pastel agate
Ah true right
But this being a, like, 5 card combo doesn’t sound fantastic
Cause you got silence, hullbreaker, two rocks, and some way to dig?
solemn hamlet
Well it's Hullbreaker+Bumbleflower+Cloud of Faeries then a silence effect
pastel agate
[[cloud of faeries]]
brave folioBOT
Creature — Faerie
Flying
When Cloud of Faeries enters, untap up to two lands.
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
1/1
solemn hamlet
3 cards without that protection unless I'm missing something
pastel agate
Yeah, how am I winning with that
solemn hamlet
[[hullbreaker horror]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
That’s on cast is it not?
solemn hamlet
Does that not work
pastel agate
Yeah I was like uhh
pastel agate
You’d need faeries and peregrine drake
solemn hamlet
Right
pastel agate
Yeah, fast mana is probably the way to do it
solemn hamlet
If you bring back in Evo Witness all those combo pieces do something meaningful without each other anyways
pastel agate
That is true. Thoughts on what to cut?
solemn hamlet
That is true. Thoughts on what to cut?
Well if you also add the silence effects you'd have Lotus Petal, Shrieking Drake, Evo Witness, Silence, Ranger Captain of Eos in.
Let's see... Just by cruising through the list a bit I come to Monk Class, Council of Four, Peerless Recycling, Gluntch, Everybody Lives as potential cuts
Lotus Petal = "ramp", gets less value than Monk class yes but it'll be fine imo.
Council, you have enough draw let's be real.
Peerless, easy switch to evo witness for recursion
Gluntch, I'm not too crazy about it if we go to high power. Ranger Captain can take its spot.
Silence, I thought maybe get rid of one of the protection spells since silence can be pseudo protection (from other combos)
Just my hard and fast reasoning there
pastel agate
Those are all pretty reasonable
echo kiln
Holy mess y'all are coookin in here. I need to backread some
untold oxide
If you’re going high power I think it’s time to drop all of the pet cards, go way down in creature count and become a true control deck utilising ms bumbleflower to replenish your hand. Then go for an aluren+bounce creature line after a silence effect to just make people deck out.
The high power list imo should look very very different.
turbid fossil
solemn hamlet
[[Veilstone amulet]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
Funky
pastel agate
Card is nuts in reactive decks
amber pawn
So how strong is the deck with $50 thrown into the precon?
sturdy tiger
it's pretty fricking strong
amber pawn
Cause my group now is against my budget yuriko deck… so I’m 0/2 on decks I picked to play
And I need something that they can’t bitch about
Will my group get mad at this too?
amber pawn
Well then idk what to play
daring ether
You could lean heavily into the counters aspect
amber pawn
I understand the hatred of hyper budget gitrog. But they don’t like my budget yuriko that doesn’t have any combo wins or tutors because “can’t interact, has counterspells, steals cards, and can’t block”
So what do people complain about for group hug?
daring ether
The complaint is usually that group hug decks tend to make the good decks just win harder. Because the group hug decks were constructed poorly and let everyone benefit equally.
And good decks benefit more from drawing extra cards and playing more lands.
Bumbleflower gets around this by letting you choose who benefits to prevent this, but there is definitely a stigma around group hug. They’ll learn though. You just have to be deliberate with the hug effects.
amber pawn
So if my group hasn’t experienced group hug. Is bumbleflower a better intro for them?
And if you just help good decks win, how does that help you then?
daring ether
It doesn’t. A lot of people build group hug decks incorrectly.
The precon is a good introduction to group hug because outside of a few cards that I’d cut, all the group hug effects are effects that you get to control and you get to benefit more from than your opponents.
solemn hamlet
It's really easy to transistion her precon out of group hug yeah
daring ether
Leave in a few hug cards to lull them into a false sense of security. Then drop multiple [[hardened scales]] effects and beat face.
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
I understand the hatred of hyper budget gitrog. But they don’t like my budget yu...
They're upset because you run counterspells? Why
amber pawn
They're upset because you run counterspells? Why
I counter everything they try to do to stop my ninjas. If I don’t. They die and the deck doesn’t work. So obviously the solution in blue is to play counter spells. I got some of the ones that have alternative cast costs because that’s what the deck needs. Nothing crazy or expensive. They dislike the combo of all the things that are considered “unfun” or “disliked” mechanics
daring ether
What if instead of Yuriko ninjas you played [[Satoru, the Infiltrator]]?
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
I take it your deck tries to get going early then, and youve got stuff like misdirection and whatnot
amber pawn
They probably wouldn’t hate that as much. I could also modify it to be the one that gives all cards ninjitsu
amber pawn
I take it your deck tries to get going early then, and youve got stuff like misd...
I’ll link, one sec
I can delete after since this isn’t the best place for this
But I am interested in the bunny
solemn hamlet
Bumbleflower gets around this by letting you choose who benefits to prevent this...
Going back to this, yeah. They will learn if they have a negative feeling towards group hug. You can play it very different from like a winconless chaotic group hug deck, you will reach a critical mass that will become really hard to deal with
daring ether
If your friends complain about everything, skip adding Nadu to the deck. Its not worth the argument. Bird bad upvotes please.
amber pawn
Going back to this, yeah. They will learn if they have a negative feeling toward...
So what does the deck do that’s so bad? Idk what they’re going to hate so far
rough dove
So what does the deck do that’s so bad? Idk what they’re going to hate so far
I've commited crimes against humanity with Bumbleflower
solemn hamlet
I mean... You can go crazy drawing a ton of cards which gives you a lot of interaction in turn. And throw in a Seedborn Muse/Wilderness Reclamation then you're cooking
rough dove
[[perch protection]] has been the biggest chaotic win con that nobody sees coming.
brave folioBOT
rough dove
So what does the deck do that’s so bad? Idk what they’re going to hate so far
Bumbleflower wins by building assymetrical advantage by using any part of her ability. You can build around +1/1, forcing others to draw, or your own personal draw (or a resilent middle of the road of all three) while being packed with counterspells and fogs.
amber pawn
Hmm very interesting. What’s the biggest wincon in the precon then?
solemn hamlet
There's a bunch of alternate Win cons. [[Triskadekaphile]] is probably the easiest one to get off.
brave folioBOT
Creature — Human Wizard
You have no maximum hand size.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have exactly thirteen cards in your hand, you win the game.
: Draw a card.
She's always willing to lend a hand. It just won't be her own.
1/3
cursive egret
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/CcKb0_4PCEuF2jwpEizKBA
K I'm super happy with the region this list is in at the moment BUT, 4 cuts to make. I don't own any of the cards in the 'Sideboard' section but I'm open to including any if there's a cut to make for them. Initiate and Mockingbird seem like the least impactful creatures, but I also think I could afford to cut some ramp
I know people weren't loving Growth Spiral / Planar whatever, but I feel a bit short on instants without them
glossy fox
My friend got this precon
Did not do much when he played it
Just gave everyone card draw
With [[kwain]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Rabbit Wizard
: Each player may draw a card, then each player who drew a card this way gains 1 life.
"Why so slow, why so slow? Hurry up! You never know what you'll find."
1/3
glossy fox
Too bad he got blown up when I cast [[forced march]] x=2 to get rid of all token creatures and token generators
brave folioBOT
amber pawn
Did not do much when he played it
Were they knowledgeable about how to play the deck?
glossy fox
Were they knowledgeable about how to play the deck?
It was his first game with it
I think
amber pawn
Ahhh ok
glossy fox
He knows how scary she is tho
amber pawn
I’ve just heard good things. But I also assume it’s the type of deck that if you don’t play it right it just kinda sits there
untold oxide
Yeah bumbleflower is kinda rough if you aren’t sure what the plan is
glossy fox
Yeah bumbleflower is kinda rough if you aren’t sure what the plan is
Game wasn't going top well for him either
Too
formal ruin
Played first two games with this deck last night and won them both, middling kind of level of decks but the more equal game was close
solemn hamlet
Nice 😁
I'm going to my first Commander FNM tomorrow, I'm bringing my Bumbleflower and Queen Marchesa
untold oxide
Sadly didnt get to play bumbleflower tonight
I was playing with 2 relatively new people and the 3rd person likes battlecruiser magic so stuff like bumbleflower just wasn't appropriate. Sad about it.
amber pawn
I was playing with 2 relatively new people and the 3rd person likes battlecruise...
Why do people like battlecruiser magic? That’s what my friends like and I’m trying to play decks that are interesting to me. But they don’t like infinite combos. So basically all combos
pastel agate
Why do people like battlecruiser magic? That’s what my friends like and I’m tryi...
It’s just a fun silly time, people like scrapping it out in combat. I just like doing the work of winning the game via combat and enticing others to join in
untold oxide
I don’t mind combat in edh, but I don’t want build-a-board workshop where no one really does anything
pastel agate
The artist is currently unsure if they’re going to do APs btw
So unlikely we’ll get any, and if we do they’ll likely be JP-only
amber pawn
Would you consider this a good pet deck? That can get new cards pretty often
formal ruin
Would you consider this a good pet deck? That can get new cards pretty often
its certainly "A deck of all time" being that you are always doing stuff with the table
every game will be different in the choices you make
and theres certainly different angles you can take it
counters, planeswalkers, staxy effects
pastel agate
Would you consider this a good pet deck? That can get new cards pretty often
Yeah, it’s got a lot of directions it can go
amber pawn
Ok. I just want a deck that I can kinda change out some things depending how I’m feeling. But keep the core deck the same
solemn hamlet
Played a bunch with my playgroup yesterday
The aikido build was soooo successful in the games I played her. Psychic possession is absolutely insane
The highlight of my night was getting Nils out on our guy playing Hakbal. I gave his Hakbal Bloodthirsty Blade so he had to keep swinging with it. This either forced him to give me another card with my Smugglers share out or not ramp out with the extra land drop Hakbal gives. The game ended when I got it big enough to take with Reins of Power and kill him with it. I casted Reins of Power, and he had a counter for me. I countered that with Dovin's Veto and was able to give it flying with Bumbleflower before Reins of Power resolved.
Punched through with combat damage bunny in another game with Dueliists Heritage and Berserk
pastel agate
We love to see it. I do think the Aikido route is one of the better casual builds for sure.
I’m contemplating making a +1/+1 counters build soon
solemn hamlet
They told me at my critical mass that it was terrifying and confusing to fight lol. I would just feed me and one guy a ton of cards and pass with mana up. Then if someone tried to mess with me I'd usually have an aikido card in hand to send their way
echo kiln
What's the flavor behind Bumble's mechanics anyway? Does she feed everyone pastries and scones then leaping crane kick you in the jaw?
untold oxide
She makes food and hands it out to everyone while also eating some of the feast herself.
Look a that stack of food
echo kiln
Yeah but why does stuff get flying? And why does she hit you if she's giving out snacks? Is it a metaphor for high cholesterol?
untold oxide
The flying part I dunno, but she doesnt have to hit you. We just choose to do that.
pastel agate
We’re choosing the violence
solemn hamlet
Drugs
echo kiln
New lore: "bumbleflowers" are what the good people of Bloomburrow call opium poppies, and Ms. Bumbleflower is the #1 hookup
pastel agate
The flying part I dunno, but she doesnt have to hit you. We just choose to do th...
The flavor is that she hops into the air iirc
untold oxide
Bumbleflower confirmed Uber delivery driver
boreal schooner
New lore: "bumbleflowers" are what the good people of Bloomburrow call opium pop...
[[!food coma]]?
brave folioBOT
echo kiln
That's adorable
boreal schooner
It was just a picture of bumbles asleep in poppies so seemed relevant
solemn hamlet
The Bumble Flower!
daring ether
Yeah but why does stuff get flying? And why does she hit you if she's giving out...
rabbit go hop
untold oxide
Are you crazy?
formal ruin
im not in the best mind right now with other things going on in my life
untold oxide
Its nice dont get me wrong, im just never paying above $200 for a newer card.
formal ruin
solemn hamlet
Oh wow sweet
And if it makes them happy and they can afford it all the power to em
formal ruin
I cant really afford it, but im just pissed at life right now and need a pick me up
pastel agate
Damn sure hope it does pick ya up, nice bling! I’m very jealous
pastel agate
Its nice dont get me wrong, im just never paying above $200 for a newer card.
[[$ms bumbleflower]]
brave folioBOT
pastel agate
It’s, uh… a bit more than $200
formal ruin
I already got this on the way for the deck
untold oxide
Well whatever stuff you're dealing with I hope it gets better soon.
formal ruin
thanks, im gonna have to not save this month but, its better I have something nice in my life than not at all
untold oxide
putting all your money away and not doing anything you enjoy is a surefire way to end up depressed.
Spend some of your money each month and do something you enjoy or get something you enjoy. Even if its small it will make a huge difference.
formal ruin
luckily I have around £300 of "fun money" a month that isnt accounted for
all other things are really
I got one of these recently too
its not that cool but its in my necrobloom deck now 🙂
echo kiln
https://scryfall.com/card/blc/3/ms-bumbleflower
Good lord. Why won't they stop going up
I want both the bunnies but they keep going up
pastel agate
Good lord. Why won't they stop going up
It has! It’s been hovering around the $350 mark for a couple weeks now
echo kiln
Nice now just keep it dropping by 4 dollars a day
pastel agate
Nice now just keep it dropping by 4 dollars a day
It would only take 3 months of that to make it free!
formal ruin
about £235 or $309 dollars
pastel agate
Still muy espensive
echo kiln
I don't even like raised foils, literally just give me that art on a nonfoil. I'll still pay exorbitant prices, just not that much
formal ruin
when baylen was spoiled I knew I was going to get one
pastel agate
Bad news y’all, the artist for the raised foil isn’t certain they’re going to do APs
formal ruin
but since yeah, thats the only one with that art, have to get it
there surely is an extremely limited amount of raised foils out there
I think its possibly its sub 500
(or in boxes that will never be opened)
echo kiln
Bad news y’all, the artist for the raised foil isn’t certain they’re going to do...
May have to take matters into my own hands
formal ruin
(dont get me started on that)
pastel agate
Sure could
pastel agate
I think its possibly its sub 500
It’s definitely not sub 500
echo kiln
Tcgplayer said it averages 118 sales a week. Unless a bunch of copies are just getting traded back and forth by speculators and then it's got to be a lot more than 500
formal ruin
other bunny has been got for £145, finally
gonna have to tune my jinnie deck so its less bad now
echo kiln
Baylen is the one I really want
formal ruin
been desperately trying for over a week for all 3 of them, so is not just a day thing
sadly
untold oxide
It’s just not my kind of commander it seems very linear in how it’s built with the effects printed on it.
I like things that you can take off in a different direction and make weird interactions happen
echo kiln
Idk, what do you imagine the deck does?
formal ruin
could make a baylen stax deck ez pz
pastel agate
“Make token, draw card” is basically all baylen does
And do thing, draw card is still the most boring shit on the planet
formal ruin
boring = / = isnt fun, tho
heck ive seen recent videos on the topic of boring isnt bad too
formal ruin
think so
is tatyova boring? it is to msot people
I find tatyova very fun because I get to do my landfall thing and enjoy each game because its got multiple routes to get what I want out of the game
pastel agate
I think you’re conflating your fun for other people’s
untold oxide
Yeah, tatyova is boring. And this is from a big tatyova player
pastel agate
Boring is synonymous with unfun linguistically
formal ruin
no not really, fun is what people enjoy or what people make of stuff they do
untold oxide
I like mine because every card is shiny af, and it has a crap ton of interaction.
pastel agate
Not necessarily hand in hand, but definitely synonymous
untold oxide
But the landfall and tatyova aspect of it is boring.
pastel agate
Sure, the concept is boring, but the execution isn’t, or you wouldn’t be playing it
I’m just being a bit pedantic there
untold oxide
Sure, the concept is boring, but the execution isn’t, or you wouldn’t be playing...
Yeah, basically this.
formal ruin
I dunno, I like playing land and getting value
never boring to me
lots of different things you can do with lands
untold oxide
I play too much landfall tbh. Mechanic is just too strong and people can’t interact with it because of the social code. It’s like legally cheating.
pastel agate
Basically, for your opponents tatyova is both boring in concept and execution. For you, the concept may or may not be boring but the execution is where you enjoy it and that’s where it matters
echo kiln
I've had all sorts of interactions I've found fun in my Baylen. They do involve doing a thing and drawing cards but I'm not just making three tokens at a time and tapping them to draw cards every turn. Getting outlets like Ashnod's altar, convoke cards uhh... Storm cards, sometimes
pastel agate
I play too much landfall tbh. Mechanic is just too strong and people can’t inter...
It is also a decent amount of work to MAKE work. At least, it would be if they didn’t print a few insanely powerful payoffs like tatyova
untold oxide
I've had all sorts of interactions I've found fun in my Baylen. They do involve ...
My point in calling it boring is that you are just a tokens deck and those are a dime a dozen in the last few years. It’s just more of the same “blah” is what I’m gonna call it.
formal ruin
I've had all sorts of interactions I've found fun in my Baylen. They do involve ...
baylen would certainly make a dockside sooo much better
pastel agate
Yeah. Every token deck is conceptually boring to me nowadays
Execution could be pretty fun but wow am I burnt out on them
untold oxide
I used to absolutely love tokens. And then wotc were like oh? You like tokens now? Want 8448378494 commander cards that involve tokens
echo kiln
Baylen's the only tokens deck I've ever built. I think I've scraped up every Naya tokens legend into the 99 tho, so I'm kinda playing all the other ones too
pastel agate
I think I’ve probably made over two dozen token decks in my deckbuilding career, and I enjoyed them, but now I can’t see a “shiny new token commander” without groaning
untold oxide
Like….no….i enjoyed my janky tokenfest and now you’ve made it a mainstream thing that everyone just incidentally does. It’s boring to me now.
echo kiln
I think I’ve probably made over two dozen token decks in my deckbuilding career,...
Shiny new token commander? Boring
Bunny new token commander? Exciting, adorable
pastel agate
Baylen's the only tokens deck I've ever built. I think I've scraped up every Nay...
Naya “oops, all legendary token commanders” would be funny to do
Just like naya legendary equipment commanders
echo kiln
Make it have lots of tokens-matter cards and next to no token producers
pastel agate
Make it have lots of tokens-matter cards and next to no token producers
Yup
echo kiln
"OOOOOO boy you better watch out for when I draw Raise the Alarm. I'm gonna go off then"
pastel agate
It’s all token commanders and a single [[sprout swarm]]
brave folioBOT
Instant
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for or one mana of that creature's color.)
Buyback (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, put this card into your hand as it resolves.)
Create a 1/1 green Saproling creature token.
echo kiln
Can you... make that infinite with three token doublers?
echo kiln
We broke Sprout Swarm
pastel agate
Pair it with a [[thermoalchemist]] and you can win outright
brave folioBOT
Creature — Human Shaman
Defender
: Thermo-Alchemist deals 1 damage to each opponent.
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, untap Thermo-Alchemist.
"Madness can't touch a mind ignited by genius."
0/3
pastel agate
Which you can also use to pay for sprout swarm itself which is neat
solemn hamlet
Bad news y’all, the artist for the raised foil isn’t certain they’re going to do...
:C
pastel agate
Yeah, i was big sad when i saw that
solemn hamlet
I feel like I should make one more deck
echo kiln
Something mono green
pastel agate
I put it in my deckbuilding thread but I made a deck around the original design for Nadu
solemn hamlet
I was thinking maybe Xyris
pastel agate
Xyris pump spells is really funny
solemn hamlet
Yeah I saw a video on that and it seems interesting
untold oxide
Ive been playing xyris pump spells on an ultra budget
The deck is hilarious fun
Last I checked the list was €14-15ish
solemn hamlet
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/27YwjQm7dk-k7XFzMNLxZQ
I think I literally have 90 percent of this deck in paper already 🤣 maybe I'll give it a whirl
untold oxide
Its not powerful, I will preface the discussion with that. So go in with low expectations. Maybe add a bit more ramp if you can, mine only has nothing because its budget.
If I were to build it better id add more protection for xyris and more ramp to get off the floor faster.
formal ruin
there are real humans out there on ebay still 🙂
boreal schooner
If you don't do a lot of volume eBay feels like the best way to sell a high priced card if you're just a random person. Just because it has the protection built in for buyer/seller and will be higher than what a store offers.
untold oxide
there are real humans out there on ebay still 🙂
That was pretty cool of them to work with you.
boreal schooner
So I'm not shocked there was a person on the other end and am happy for you.
formal ruin
this was the other one I got
pastel agate
It helps when you come in nice about it
Some people are just like “give it to me for $48.50 or I’ll curse your bloodline you dumb fuck” like “okay now I won’t even sell it to you for $200”
formal ruin
Woah bun bun
solemn hamlet
Noice
untold oxide
Tef is pretty good
formal ruin
yeah the untappy one?
the other tef one lets me draw the 2nd card for the turn for other different triggers on other stuff
and spawns in +1 counter creatures that the deck is based around for wincon wise
very cool
solemn hamlet
Had to cut Doppelgang and Open the way from my list because every game I played so far, I haven't had a turn where I could reliably tap out on my turn 😭
daring ether
Imagine running cards that aren’t combat tricks and auras.
formal ruin
anyone else on a walker bumbel
daring ether
I like it as a subtheme but not as the whole deck
People do not politic they just hit the walker in the face
solemn hamlet
I just don't like planeswalkers 🤷
formal ruin
I just don't like planeswalkers 🤷
solemn hamlet
frog
pastel agate
anyone else on a walker bumbel
Mine has quite a few, though it’s not built around them
sand island
You guys still playing Bumbleflower?
sand island
How much are you leaning into +1/+1 counters in yours?
formal ruin
fuck me the person i brought from is requesting cancellation
sand island
formal ruin
they are apparently on vacation
sand island
I've been really happy with [[Sergeant John Benton]] in my Bumbleflower deck
brave folioBOT
sand island
they are apparently on vacation
At least it's just delayed then!
formal ruin
At least it's just delayed then!
well they tried to cancel it because of the vacation, they havent replied to me denying the cancelation tho
i sent them in a message in spanish saying:
Hey there, just to let you know I'm fine with waiting a few days or a couple of weeks for it, no issues for me
Hola, solo para hacerte saber que puedo esperar unos días o un par de semanas, no hay problema para mí.
solemn hamlet
https://scryfall.com/card/who/157/sergeant-john-benton
Yo... Xyris at home
sand island
I feel like he's less scary than Xyris
Xyris and his effects are both really cool though
pastel agate
You guys still playing Bumbleflower?
Yes, we’re still extremely based
sand island
pastel agate
Also he’s way scarier than xyris
He just doesn’t appear that way
People shit the bed about tokens way too much
But 3 mana is rough
sand island
Yeah, he sneaks under the radar because you don't see the tokens
Purphoros potentially existing with Xyris is very scary too
pastel agate
Eh. Big swing with John will end games super ez
Plus you’ve got [[snakeskin veil]] style effects that make it impossible to kill John
brave folioBOT
sand island
I mean, they both can end games with a big swing
Just that Xyris has that token angle which is scary because it's so visible. And has various token creature synergies.
solemn hamlet
I'll have to pick up John
formal ruin
had to get one from the UK
formal ruin
is finally on the way, had to get one locally
now I am happy
is gonna be so pretty
solemn hamlet
I've seen it in person and it is quite amazing
formal ruin
crystal quest
Lived the energy dream today w [[metastatic evangel]] and [[primal prayers]] making Bumbleflower enormous very quickly
brave folioBOT
Enchantment
When Primal Prayers enters, you get 
(two energy counters).
You may cast creature spells with mana value 3 or less by paying rather than paying their mana costs. If you cast a spell this way, you may cast it as though it had flash.
When Gaea speaks, all of nature falls silent.
sand island
Leaning heavily into the +1/+1 theme?
crystal quest
Somewhat. Running this mostly as a janky shrieking drake combo but it works w walkers and +1/+1 too
sand island
[[shrieking drake]]
brave folioBOT
formal ruin
https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/35/metastatic-evangel
Oooo is this better than thrummingbird
Or is both good
crystal quest
I haven’t played w thrummingbird so I’m not sure. Probably depends on your creature count and density
pastel agate
Oooo is this better than thrummingbird
Also, you should be running the white thrummingbird over the blue one
sand island
You mean [[whitemane lion]] ?
brave folioBOT
sand island
[[thrummingbird]]
brave folioBOT
sand island
Oh nvm, I had assumed it was another shrieking drake effect
glossy fox
has anyone kept [[tempt with bunnies]] in their decks?
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
I put in Seregeant John Benton instead
daring ether
Yes but only because the precon is my designated low power slightly modified precon and there are a lot worse cards than 3 mana elvish visionary that sometimes has more benefit.
glossy fox
Yes but only because the precon is my designated low power slightly modified pre...
But bunnies
daring ether
I run it. It’s okay. It’s a tempting offer card somebody might actually say yes to.
glossy fox
I run it. It’s okay. It’s a tempting offer card somebody might actually say yes ...
My playgroups would say yes
daring ether
I had a playgroup that would say yes to [[tempt with discovery]] then all search [[strip mine]] with it.
brave folioBOT
Land
: Add .
, Sacrifice Strip Mine: Destroy target land.
Unlike previous conflicts, the war between Urza and Mishra made Dominaria itself a casualty of war.
glossy fox
Do you guys run pillowfort?
sand island
Yeah, I run both propaganda and ghostly prison
and maze of ith, in addition to fog type effects
And [[Sokrates]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Advisor
Defender
Sokrates, Athenian Teacher has hexproof as long as it's untapped.
Sokratic Dialogue — : Until end of turn, target creature gains "If this creature would deal combat damage to a player, prevent that damage. This creature's controller and that player each draw half that many cards, rounded down."
0/4
solemn hamlet
Went up against Sakishima and Talion clones
Absolutely deranged game
Also got John Benton out tonight and yeah he's amazing
sand island
He's actually so so good
Unassumingly so
Fits with the bumbleflower theme of choosing who gets cards too
[[sakishima]]
brave folioBOT
sand island
Anyojne run [[Narset]]?
brave folioBOT
sand island
[[Narset, parter of veils]]
brave folioBOT
sand island
I figure that would increase aggro way too much
daring ether
I do in my voltron version but only because you want to cast more than 2 spells for lethal pushes sometimes
solemn hamlet
No because my draw engines are built off people drawing too
sand island
That's fair, same
Smuggler's Share, trouble in pairs, faerie mastermind, etc?
Running Wedding ring?
solemn hamlet
Nah. Psychic Posession is much better
daring ether
I’m against wedding ring it punishes you for playing on your turn
sand island
Yeah, but you can propose to your friends
solemn hamlet
Spiked in price though <:NotLikeLain:635462319278784513>
Ah dang fr? Can't be more than Wedding ring though right?
sand island
That's what it's listed as on tcgplayer, but it's wrong
Since things aren't being sold for that
sand island
If you try to add them, it errors lol
solemn hamlet
Ahhh
sand island
So I assume they are old entries
solemn hamlet
Damn
sand island
First actual listing is $8 though, so it's going back down
Bumbleflower's release spiked it lol
sand island
Which direction haven you taken your bumbleflower deck?
solemn hamlet
Which direction haven you taken your bumbleflower deck?
sand island
How are you liking kros?
solemn hamlet
Love him
He sows chaos
And can pass around some huge damage
His minimum is decent but is amplified a TON with Ms. B
sand island
Yar, hmm I like your deck. Maybe I'll ditch my +1/+1 counter subtrheme too
I've been mostly planning on drawing my whole deck
solemn hamlet
I think I need to add Kutzil, because in endgame when I'm popping off, if my last opponent has mana open, I'm playing with fire
Like usually I'll be able to back up the win attempts but the extra insurance of Kutzil might be what I'm missing
sand island
I just cut him from mine
solemn hamlet
Why's that? Cuz you can draw into your interaction easy?
sand island
Yeah basically, didn't find I was attacking as much as he'd require to be useful
I'm mostly an alt wincon deck though
solemn hamlet
[[Kutzil]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
[[Kutzil, malamet]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
I forgot it draws cards too 🤣
sand island
Ahh, just for the protection against instants
that's fair tbh
I forgot he had that static ability lol
solemn hamlet
On my final turns my opponents are usually drawing 15-20 cards lol
solemn hamlet
Testing out the Second Doctor for a sweet way to finish with Sword of War and Peace
Ans also if that works out well I may add in Storm Seeker too
brave folioBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and has protection from red and from white.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, Sword of War and Peace deals damage to that player equal to the number of cards in their hand and you gain 1 life for each card in your hand.
Equip
sand island
sand island
One day I'll hit the forced fruition - fractured identity dream
sand island
I've used it once or twice
and it's been my favorite card each time
It's such a good play experience for the whole table
solemn hamlet
It typically leads to just insane things happening
I had an issue with my games being really spooky to a point where if I tapped out I'd basically be inviting a world of pain my way so I've had to trim down on high cmc cards
Maybe I need more ramp but it's a hard call to find cuts atp
sand island
Yeah, plus you're really incentivised to run low cmc to get the 2 spells/turn
Still iffy on things like torrential gearhulk and open the way in mine
solemn hamlet
At least gearhulk does the 2 spells automatically
But yeah I had to cut Open the way from my list
Just could never use it for the value
sand island
Think of the value though
Ah lol
yeah tapping out is just letting everyone bully you
solemn hamlet
Like I've held onto it several times and went "yeah I can't even cast this"
sand island
Leyline of anticipation has been fun
solemn hamlet
I've had my eye on it
sand island
Damn, looks like I want a bloodthirsty blade too
solemn hamlet
I think Valley Floodcaller Is real good though
sand island
You have so many instants as is
solemn hamlet
Even for just making my sorcery ramp castable at instant speed
sand island
Yeah for sure
solemn hamlet
3 drop to make most of my stuff in my hand flash is nice on paper. Haven't cast him early yet tho
sand island
It only has 18 hits
solemn hamlet
It can lead to some neat tricks like flashing out a Redemption arc before declare attackers or flashing a Power Matrix
solemn hamlet
Maybe i should just put Leyline in
I initially cut it because 4 drop and I didn't like the idea of pregame dropping it and looking scary from turn 0
sand island
I haven't played with himin yet
So I don't know how good he'll be
Good to recur leylines when it gets sniped turn 1
solemn hamlet
Also I thought it may have not been worth it but I think ppl should run both Shrieking Drake and Whitemane Lion
The cantripping with Ms. B is too good
sand island
Yeah I've been thinking of using it, but definitely will now
That counter that untaps lands is nice too
solemn hamlet
Yeah, rewind and Unwind are both good
sand island
Untapping bounce lands 
solemn hamlet
Yup I did that tonight
solemn hamlet
Shrieking Drake is admittedly dead if you don't have Ms. B out, but I at least have Ledger Shredder to connive with it and Loran to bounce if I need more interaction potentially
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
Thinking of this funny card
sand island
lmao, interesting
solemn hamlet
I think it'll totally backfire though
solemn hamlet
I just have a vision of screwing over go wide and casting Mirror Strike on the fractal
sand island
Good point
1 creature is often much easier to deal with
Even for me, sokrates or a maze of ith is plenty to deal and even profit off of it
solemn hamlet
Oh my god Socrates with that
sand island
Just thinking about it and I need to change my underwear
Trying to think what the average would be, like 20 or so?
solemn hamlet
If you've got a go wide player in your group for sure
sand island
Are you boardwiping if a player has less than that?
solemn hamlet
To be honest I literally have one board wipe in the entire deck
Two if you count Comeuppance?
But that's conditional
sand island
Yeah I'd consider that more in the fog category
Dang, thinking I'll ditch my +1/+1 stuff and start running more cards like that
solemn hamlet
Oversimplify also deals with dumb broken creatures with broken abilities
Buy unfortunately we also run those...
solemn hamlet
Real
sand island
Shrieking drake and whitemane are so versatile for that
solemn hamlet
Yeah you could also Drake and then oversimplify
There is just a scary turn after that unless you have a trillion mana
Well I guess you can chump at least one fractal
Err ok I need to make a cut
I'm totally trying out Oversimplify
solemn hamlet
THE STRUGGLE
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
My favorite innocuous looking card
sand island
Bumbleflower oneshot?
solemn hamlet
I have done it with Berserk and Dueslits Heritage on field
solemn hamlet
[[Berserk]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
A berserk bunny? Sounds like something out of Monty Python
Pretty much the same bunny
Duelists heritage also gives JOHN double strike
sand island
Cheaper though
solemn hamlet
Someone here posted a hyper budget Xyris deck that actually looked really neat
sand island
Yeah, Xyris seems sweet too
solemn hamlet
If you're going the bunny aikido way you must add Selfless Squire
You can give that thang flying
sand island
Oh true
Yeah I think I'll ditch my +1/+1 things probably
Who cares about hardened scales
Ehh I don't know though. I have gotten very close to winning with simic ascendancy
solemn hamlet
Personally not a fan of alt win cons
I just love when people at a new table have no idea wtf is going on against my deck
sand island
I like them so far, but I have only played ~15 games with ms b
And I play in the same group each time
solemn hamlet
It do get boring. My friend plays Gluntch and every time I see approach of the second sun I die inside
sand island
lmao
solemn hamlet
If it works and ya like it though then 🤷 no point in not running it
sand island
I haven't won with approach yet. Just lab man/jace and twenty toed toad
[[glen elendra archmage]] is one that I just added that might be of interest
brave folioBOT
Creature — Faerie Wizard
Flying
, Sacrifice Glen Elendra Archmage: Counter target noncreature spell.
Persist (When this creature dies, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
2/2
sand island
So you do
solemn hamlet
I tried real hard to make the Ms. B deck not outwardly threatening until a certain point in the game or until someone tries to send their best in at me
sand island
That makes total sense
solemn hamlet
Glen elandra would just run counter to that
In a higher powered list though slam dunk
sand island
Makes sense.
solemn hamlet
Well I'm off to bed send that list over if you do edits I'd like to see where it's going 👀
sand island
Will do. Have a good one.
solemn hamlet
😭
formal ruin
going rate is at least $300 or $330 on ebay, and cardmarket for EU has basically lost all listings
solemn hamlet
Honestly it's kinda crazy it managed to outpace even Chatterfangs raised foil
I hope they go down at some point :b
formal ruin
ngl bumbeflower is much more casually friendly than chatterfang and 1,000% more cute
solemn hamlet
That is true
formal ruin
I got the baylen one and this one because I'm gonna be playing both those decks for a long time to come because they my jam
I dont think the other ones are that popular no?
echo kiln
I hope they go down at some point :b
I think Bumbleflower is going to crash and Baylen will stay up
formal ruin
untold oxide
nice
formal ruin
its so heckin pretty
sand island
solemn hamlet
Fantastic
formal ruin
is anyone on [[abzan falconer]]
brave folioBOT
Creature — Human Soldier
Outlast (, : Put a +1/+1 counter on this creature. Outlast only as a sorcery.)
Each creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it has flying.
The fastest way across the dunes is above.
2/3
pastel agate
Don’t think you’d need to be tbh
glossy fox
is anyone on [[abzan falconer]]
real great card
solemn hamlet
Definitely not
glossy fox
Definitely not
but flying forever
solemn hamlet
My creatures have flying whenever I need them to :b
sand island
I don't see much use for the falconer, yeah. You'll have flying turn of bumbling
formal ruin
[[lonis genetic expert]]
brave folioBOT
formal ruin
this playable?
solemn hamlet
[[Fathom mage]]
brave folioBOT
daring ether
Ooh I forgot about Fathom Mage that’s a respectable one.
sand island
I have it in mine. I haven't played it yet though
echo kiln
Anyone have suggestions for easy cuts from the precon? I think I might actually buy a second one to keep stock, and then do the upgraded precon thing with the one I have now
sand island
FDisher's talent, broken wings, baird, ghirapur, hoofprints, intellectual offering, jolly gerbils, mr foxglove, steelburr champion, sunscorch regent, realm-cloaked giant, peerless recycling, rites of flourishing. bloodroot apothecary
octomancer
solemn hamlet
Jolly Gerbils, Mr Foxglove, Steelburr Champion, Sunscorched Regent, Fishers Talent, Hoofprints of the Stagg, Rites of Flourishing, Ghirapur Orrey, Intellectual Offering, Sphinx of Enlightenment
sand island
🤝
sand island
solemn hamlet
Like realm cloaked could just go for a better board wipe
solemn hamlet
And I think any group hug stuff should just go
echo kiln
I'm aiming to be less group hug and more beatdown where the cost for me is my opponents draw cards sometimes, if that makes sense
solemn hamlet
[[Sergeant John Benton]]
brave folioBOT
sand island
Agreed with grouphug going. Targeted card draw is another thing.
solemn hamlet
He's here.
sand island
The king is here.
echo kiln
How many gift cards are in the precon?
echo kiln
5, and 2 of them are just bad
solemn hamlet
Lol it would be op in the deck if that were the case
sand island
Yeah for sure
echo kiln
Or if Jolly Gerbils cared about tempting offer and other similar effects
solemn hamlet
I wish 😭because the Gerbils are cute
echo kiln
Fisher's Talent is no good?
sand island
You have like 1 way to create fish
And it's a mana sink for basically no payoff. Despite the frog being so cute.
I kept [[Octomancer]] in my deck for a while because I added [[Faerie artisans]] and wanted to live the dream. But I ended up cutting them before I saw the combo 😔
solemn hamlet
Fisher's Talent is no good?
Not really imo
solemn hamlet
I kept [[Octomancer]] in my deck for a while because I added [[Faerie artisans]]...
Yeah I was thinking of a little token subtheme with that, Faerie Artisans, Fractured Identity, Doppelgang, Bramble Sovereign, and See Double. May try it out again sometime
sand island
Same. If I end up ditching my +1 counter subtheme I might add those instead
[[See double]]
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
It kind of followed the aikido theme but I ended up not really having enough room
echo kiln
You have like 1 way to create fish
Being itself?
sand island
I thought it was a couple cards more, but yeah just itself lol
echo kiln
It does just always draw you an extra card tho, right?
sand island
and it's so slow and unlikely to hit, it's not even close to worth the mana and card slot
Yeah, but 4 mana is pretty steep for that effect imo
When it has no synergy
solemn hamlet
For that mana you could be casting TiP or Psychic posession
echo kiln
Probably belongs in another thread but is anyone looking at Mr. Foxglove? Seems possibly busted in half
sand island
He didn't seem too interesting to me, since he didn't really synergize in the precon at all
Could be interesting to cheat things from hand though, yeah
formal ruin
Probably belongs in another thread but is anyone looking at Mr. Foxglove? Seems ...
I think the play pattern isn’t that great after watching gameplay of it
pastel agate
Just for the record, we’re approaching 3,000 messages in this thread!
As of this message it’s 2913
glossy fox
As of this message it’s 2913
Only?
solemn hamlet
Impressive
pastel agate
Only?
Well, the highest # of messages in any thread is a bit over 10k in https://discord.com/channels/675113113934364683/1033991244877148200
sand island
We can beat it. Praise the bumbleflower.
daring ether
How do you feel about [[whiskervale forerunner]]?
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
How do you feel about [[whiskervale forerunner]]?
Surely [[nadu]] is just better?
brave folioBOT
untold oxide
Like in every single conceivable way
formal ruin
[[ripples of potential]]??
brave folioBOT
solemn hamlet
Big fan of ripples
Though I'm running Galadriels and March of Swirling Mist so I felt I didn't need another protection spell
formal ruin
I think I'm going to add this in
formal ruin
Though I'm running Galadriels and March of Swirling Mist so I felt I didn't need...
whats this one?
untold oxide
[[galadriels gift]]
brave folioBOT
brave folioBOT
Instant
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Target creature phases out. If this spell was kicked, each creature target player controls phases out instead. (Treat phased-out creatures and anything attached to them as though they don't exist until their controller's next turn.)
formal ruin
thats one I need
pastel agate
How do you feel about [[whiskervale forerunner]]?
It’s a slam dunk if you can support it. If you’re doing some kind of little dude build it would be insanely good
brave folioBOT
Instant
As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may exile any number of blue cards from your hand. This spell costs less to cast for each card exiled this way.
Up to X target creatures phase out. (While they're phased out, they're treated as though they don't exist. Each one phases in before its controller untaps during their next untap step.)
sand island
[[vanishing]] has always caught my eye
brave folioBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant creature
: Enchanted creature phases out. (While it's phased out, it's treated as though it doesn't exist. It phases in before its controller untaps during their next untap step.)
"Careless, like a child with fire, so was I with time." —Teferi
sand island
Telegraphed and not instant though. I'm running it in my pauper deck at least!
sand island
[[Haystack]] is somewhat interesting for single target phasing too. But you don't really want to do single target phasing.
brave folioBOT
Artifact
, : Target creature you control phases out. (Treat it and anything attached to it as though they don't exist until your next turn.)
"Search the area! He can't have gone far!" —Palazzo guard
formal ruin
taking my bumbleflower deck to WNM
I just realised this is an incredibly budget list for me
I think theres like 6 cards that are over 50% of this decks total cost lol
daring ether
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/acjL0TjDNkiD7fT7Tc-D4g
you forgot to include my friend
formal ruin
he aint going in
not yet at least
its currently a pretty budget +1 counters deck with elements of giving enemy cards
untold oxide
I mean its like $350-400 list ignoring your commander, i wouldnt call that budget tbh. most decks fall somewhere between 300-600
What id consider to be budget is like $100 or less.
formal ruin
budget to me
there is precon and there is 200 euro and there is 400 euro and there is 600 euro max for me
untold oxide
My decks range from 13 euros to 3000, I dunno. i think my average is about 1000 though. (RL cards are kinda nuts)
solemn hamlet
[[vanishing]] has always caught my eye
Oh man I used to run that in my Yenett deck lol
sand island
I have it in my ninja pauper deck, haven't seen it yet. (Only 3 gaems played with that so far)
I may try to slot in haystack or [[smokebomb]] in my bumble deck though lmao
brave folioBOT
sand island
Pretty bad protection though
sand island
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/acjL0TjDNkiD7fT7Tc-D4g
Pretty similar to my list. I run more alt wincons though.
Played bumble last night, and had an 8/10 John Benton. He always surprises me by how good he is.
solemn hamlet
Ever since you showed me him I'm convinced he's busted
sand island
Yeah, I saw him on a Commander Clash episode where they played him as a commander and I figured Ms B would be a fitting place for him
cursive egret
Had a blast today, played vs Zedruu, Henry Wu and Mabel. Had SoWaP out super early and got clapping, ultimated bunny tamiyo only to end up looking really scary but had mostly lands in my hand. I probably shouldn't have ult'd but a) never done it and couldn't help myself and b) probably would've been stopped in the next turn cycle. I had to be the target of every one of Zedruus vicious shadows triggers (from blas act) for being such a threat and died gloriously!
sand island
Zedruu and Ms B together in a game seems wild
sturdy tiger
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/acjL0TjDNkiD7fT7Tc-D4g
I pulled off the Danny Pink + Dreamtide Whale combo in a game the other day, drew like 10 cards per turn, it was nuts.
sand island
Realistically, how many creatures do you have on the battlefield at a time? 3 or 4?
That's a lot of cards still
sturdy tiger
3-4 is about the average, but if you get down some early dorks, especially ones that scale with counters, you just go off
formal ruin
I pulled off the Danny Pink + Dreamtide Whale combo in a game the other day, dre...
yeah I had danny pink but it got eldrazi cyc rifted back to my hand
sturdy tiger
It do be like that
formal ruin
yeah I kinda feel I was a budget deck at the table last night
same game featured emrakrul the promised end
and like sakasihmas student
which copied the new energy steal card
sand island
[[emrakul, the promised end]]
brave folioBOT
Legendary Creature — Eldrazi
This spell costs less to cast for each card type among cards in your graveyard.
When you cast this spell, you gain control of target opponent during that player's next turn. After that turn, that player takes an extra turn.
Flying, trample, protection from instants
An enigma as vexing as life itself.
13/13
sand island
Ah, thought that was the banned emrakul lol
formal ruin
ye
this game took 2 hours
and we had to kingmake to end it
it took two hours because my deck had its best draw cards stolen
:)))
sand island
[[Marina Vendrell's Grimoire]] Thoughts? Lmao.
brave folioBOT
sand island
Seems like a meme card, but funny
boreal schooner
Lich cards are meme cards yes
They have such a long history as a premier glass canon method
formal ruin
[[reluctant role model]]
brave folioBOT