https://www.moxfield.com/decks/QOzRO4ed3Ey1vRIjqyZi2g
needs cuts. please help.
#Surrak and Craterhoof
hardy moon
dusty cape
Some things I would cut personally:
-General Marhault Elsdragon
-Vigor
-Fauna Shaman
-Generous Patron
-Vizier of the Menagerie
-Radha, Heir to Keld
-Skyshroud Poacher
-Elvish Guidance
-Elvish Visionary
-Vanquisher's Banner
-Quirion Ranger
dusty cape
[[Raggadragga]] would be an interesting include to the deck considering all the mana dorks
cinder cryptBOT
hardy moon
hmmm, he would be interesting. so reason for cuts?
cause in defense
- not man non mono green elves and he's fun
- a general all around good value card, I use him in a LOT of decks but he IS a huge magnet at my LGS
- this card always does me a ton of good every time it's in play, very solid
- i got suggested to add this in another server cause it's a 3 mana elf body that draws me 2 cards. and drawing cards is good.
- I really like being able to play off the top of my deck
- again, not many good options for non monogreen.
- this one seems strong although i havent played it much
- hmm
- ya, it's not strong but it replaces itself.
- got better card draw option
- I kind of just run this cause it can also give me green or red and I like the old art.
dusty cape
hmmm, he would be interesting. so reason for cuts?
cause in defense
- not man no...
-General seems interesting and I admit I haven't seen this card before. However I think you already have multiple trample and +X/+X effects so he just seems like a win-more type of card.
-Vigor would be good against Blasphemous Act type cards for sure. It's just a bit clunky at 6 mana and he only buffs creatures on damage being dealt.
-Fauna Shaman is a good card overall but it feels less good and synergistic when you already have 9+ ways to tutor for creatures and you don't seem to rely on graveyard recursion much.
-Generous Patron only draws you cards if you put counters on creatures you DON'T control. So you could only draw a max of 2 cards off of Patron and you're buffing your opponents' creatures. It could be used politically in multiplayer but it doesn't have much synergy with the rest of your deck.
-It feels a bit redundant to have four types of top playing, especially if you're not trying to manipulate the top of your deck actively ([[Sensei's Divining Top]], [[Sylvan Library]], etc.). The other 3 are at least synergysitic with the elf theme, so as I see it, Vizier is the weakest out of the four and the easiest to cut.
-Radha Heir is okay, but you have to attack with her to get the 2 red mana. It can also be a green mana dork, but the other 2-mana dorks you have either get you more mana per elf (Priest of Titania) or allow you more color options without risking Radha in combat (Paradise Druid and Quirion Elves).
cinder cryptBOT
Artifact
: Look at the top three cards of your library, then put them back in any order.
: Draw a card, then put Sensei's Divining Top on top of its owner's library.
dusty cape
-Skyshroud Poacher is a 7 mana investment to get one elf creature that you actually want out of your deck. If you don't have haste you have to wait a whole turn to activate. Most of your elves are cheaper to cast than this as well.
-Elvish Guidance is a pretty strong card, it's just not on a creature. If you want to keep this card, I would suggest taking out maybe a Fyndhorn elves or similar low value mana dork.
-Elvish Visionary does replace itself but it doesn't offer much more value than that, especially later in the game. Most of your other elves already add value beyond ETB effect, especially for only one card draw.
-Quirion Ranger would be better if you ran more forests and land ramp. If you want to keep I would suggest taking out a 1 mana dork
hardy moon
I use Patron in my kenrith deck for insane amounts of draw. it's a corner stone in that deck.
in this deck however I am iffy on it, was a new suggestion i got elsewhere.
it's only two counters and in a craterhoof deck im willing to to give that away.
the only reason I have so many "play off the top" cards is cause honestly, even running 5 would mean i'd only see 1 every few games and I Really like that effect.
thanks for the reasonings, this will absolutely help me make some cuts now.
dusty cape
No problem Endalrin! It seems like a pretty strong elfball deck already, there's a lot of good stuff and it was hard to suggest cuts down to 100
hardy moon
Ya.
My biggest issue is I need a way to replenish my hand as I play out elf cards.
Having stuff like Beast Whisperer is what I want but the other two like it are SIX mana, and also not elves so they're honestly too damn slow. seriously. that's an effect you want EARLY game cause at 6 mana you've already cast a lot of other creatures.
my second issue is I think, I need more interaction.
dusty cape
Having stuff like Beast Whisperer is what I want but the other two like it are S...
Agreed on this. Beast Whisperer is a house
hardy moon
i hate to cut Heir to Keld cause she's got the only good Radha art. lol
but she is rather mediocre.
dusty cape
Yeah the card art is great
hardy moon
hmmm, do I want to cut Vigor. it's such a power house but it's also a removal magnet and six mana.
I was told to cut nullmage sheperd but, I really dont have many removal options right now.
I cant cut fauna shaman though, she's done me too good.
i could have sworn skyshroud poucher was more expensive, hmm, anyway I had one lying around so I figured I'd use it. but that IS a massive investment of mana.
oh ya, elvish visionary doesnt even tap for mana. what was the other one.
llanowar visionary. not sure if I should cut or keep that one.
dusty cape
That one might be worth a cut over Fauna Shaman
dusty cape
The lifegain is nice but it doesn't help too much with the board state
hardy moon
maybe I should cut proud wildbonder. im always trying to run him but he always gets cut
dusty cape
It seems like the card you would play after you resolve Craterhoof or Ezuri
dusty cape
Yeah probably not
hardy moon
although I am also running questing beast to get around fogs.
im tempted to run regal force but I need consistent draw not draw dumps.
dusty cape
I did notice QB, I figured it was for that
hardy moon
ya. in a casual table top game I once Finale of Devastations a Craterhoof onto the board
and then got fogged by spore counters.
i was... SO MAD
dusty cape
Oh yeah lol the worst case scenario
hardy moon
you know, I should run Genesis to pair with fauna shaman
hmmm, last march of ents.
i am still tempted to split this deck into mono green elf ball and make surrak a different deck but, maybe in the future after I finish other lists.
dusty cape
im tempted to run regal force but I need consistent draw not draw dumps.
Skullclamp?
dusty cape
Great Henge?
hardy moon
but I have a bunch of lords.
you know, I HAD that in here, but I cut it. I got 4 back when they were 17 and I might have needed it for another deck
I need to refigure out which decks get one.
well, down to 104 as I made some of the suggested cuts. still think I want to try Vanquisher's banner, it's 1 more than beast whisperer but it's also a lord and dies to less removal.
dusty cape
Sounds good
hardy moon
Ghalta, Kenrith, My modify deck, and a Marisi deck that's on hold cause I need to rethink it.
so it would have to either go into Marisi or Surrak.
hardy moon
I may also need to add some counterspells perhaps.
dusty cape
If you want to add a potential combo piece, [[Intruder Alarm]] could be interesting with the high volume of creatures and mana dorks
cinder cryptBOT
hardy moon
hmmm, that's, an interesting choice. im not sure that would work great for me though.
dusty cape
It requires some setup but if you have multiple draw effects in play and cards like Priest of Titania out, you could play out your entire deck and win the game on the spot. It's not something you would play early though, since it can help your opponents out too
hardy moon
OOOO WAIT A MINUTE
i get it now.
keep reusing mana dorks.
alright, im down.
oh man, 3 great arts.
dusty cape
If you do put it in I would suggest taking out Mobilize. I like a permanent with repeatable effects over a temporary effect
hardy moon
i need to learn the lore from this set, i keep seeing this dude.
well i have instand and sorcery speed mobilize,i always like redundancy for an effect.
dusty cape
Yeah I would keep Vitalize
dusty cape
Looks awesome
hardy moon
im on the fence with [[edric, spymaster]]
cinder cryptBOT
dusty cape
He's pretty good consistent draw if you attack a lot
I've never played him in a deck but from what I know of his reputation he is a prime removal target
hardy moon
hmmm, my local group doesn'
t know too much about hot targets unless they seem them get used locally pretty well so, i might leave him in.
dusty cape
Yeah you can politic with him too
hardy moon
but i feel like I just want to build up until I can do one big payout, not swing here and there.
ya. there's a few cards im iffy on, last 10 cuts are always the hardest
and then new cards pop up. uhg.
dusty cape
How do you feel about Yeva, Nature's Herald?
hardy moon
shes a flash one right? flash is good?
good for dropping down mana dorks on end steps when you dont have haste enablement.
dusty cape
Yeah she might be fine. You can build up your board at flash speed
hardy moon
ya my main goal is hand replenishment when im tryojg to build up my board.
dusty cape
Maybe you could go down a lord effect? If the plan is to Craterhoof/Ezuri it out
Craterhoof just requires lots of creatures, it already gives a huge buff + trample
hardy moon
perhaps ya.
i think champion is the only lord that's acceptable to cut cause the rest do other good stuff.
could probably cut paradise druid too. hmm
dusty cape
Sounds good
hardy moon
i hate when I have to cut a card with art I really like lol
Elvish Champion is gorgeous.
dusty cape
Yavimaya land and Elvish Champion is a pretty good combo though
hardy moon
true. true.
love making damage unblockable even if its way overkill.
voice of many seems mediocre.
dusty cape
On it's own it's a bit mid
hardy moon
could maybe cut [[immaculate magistrate]]
cinder cryptBOT
Creature — Elf Shaman
: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature for each Elf you control.
Elves of the immaculate class weave flora into living creatures—sometimes to endorse an elite warrior, sometimes to create a breathing work of art.
2/2
dusty cape
It's not terrible when paired with Temur Sabertooth though
Magistrate may not be the best for this deck, it helps for going tall rather than wide. It has great synergy with [[Joraga Warcaller]] though
cinder cryptBOT
Creature — Elf Warrior
Multikicker 
(You may pay an additional any number of times as you cast this spell.)
Joraga Warcaller enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each time it was kicked.
Other Elf creatures you control get +1/+1 for each +1/+1 counter on Joraga Warcaller.
1/1
hardy moon
ya... Joraga is good but he kind of screwed me over once lol
that was my first lost and fifth game with this deck.
made all my stuff big enough to get pinged by a 1/1 recursion deck
might have been Meren
no.
[[Shirei]]
cinder cryptBOT
hardy moon
if I hadn't tried to politic out of losing Joraga I wouldn't have gotten so messed up by this lol
I had a strong start but no card draw so I was nearly top decking and started losing my board fast.
but the deck is at 100 now, maybe needs more tweaking but I think I can move on to my next list, you've been most helpful, thank you very much.
dusty cape
No problem Endalrin! Best of luck to you
hardy moon
thanks!
hardy moon
There's a few more cards I'm iffy on, labeled them to cut, don''t know how they rate exactly so I may just leave them until I play again.
hardy moon
Added a Rhystic Study and Sylvan Library to the list.
Gotta make 2 cuts now. Oi vey.
hardy moon
found some new enchantments to play with, might need help with some cuts, we'll see.
hardy moon
SO I still need to make 5 cuts to this deck.
hard. I think I need to cut some redundancy.
if I could get 7-10 suggestions it would make it a lot easier.
hardy moon
so, I got a list elsewhere.
Nullmage Shepherd
Questing Beast
Quirion Elves
Radha, Heart of Keld
Seedborn Muse
Temur Sabertooth
Quest for Renewal
Wood Elves
Elvish Warmaster```
wondering if there's any others I should consider.
on my current list im looking at
```Quirion Elves /c
Wood Elves /c
Nullmage Sheperd /k (not enough other removal so I feel like keeping this one.)
Temur Saberooth /k (nice combo)
Ascetism /?
Gensis /c
Kindred Dsicoery /?```
real spade
This an elf deck, a combo deck or?
fallow flicker
Asceticism is largely not helpful at 5 mana
hardy moon
its a Craterhoof deck, the elves just get me there. I think I got it good now but any upgrade suggestions are welcome.
hardy moon
okay, so, this thing honestly needs 2 things.
- way more revomal/interaction.
- more haste.
fallow flicker
Any creature that doubles as interaction will surely work better for you
fallow flicker
I recommend bane of progress, [[cresting saur]] [[exocrine]] [[cyclone summoner]]
cinder cryptBOT
Creature — Dinosaur
Emerge 
(You may cast this spell by sacrificing a creature and paying the emerge cost reduced by that creature's mana value.)
When Cresting Mosasaurus enters the battlefield, if you cast it, return each non-Dinosaur creature to its owner's hand.
It preyed on anything it could sink its teeth into.
4/8
fallow flicker
[[jin-gitaxias]] and [[vorinclex]] are good too
cinder cryptBOT
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Praetor
Ward 
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell with mana value 3 or greater, draw a card.
: Exile Jin-Gitaxias, then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery and only if you have seven or more cards in hand.
5/5
The Great Synthesis
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — Draw cards equal to the number of cards in your hand. You have no maximum hand size for as long as you control The Great Synthesis.
II — Return all non-Phyrexian creatures to their owners' hands.
III — You may cast any number of spells from your hand without paying their mana costs. Exile The Great Synthesis, then return it to the battlefield (front face up).
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Praetor
Trample, reach
When Vorinclex enters the battlefield, search your library for up to two Forest cards, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle.
: Exile Vorinclex, then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery.
6/6
The Grand Evolution
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — Mill ten cards. Put up to two creature cards from among the milled cards onto the battlefield.
II — Distribute seven +1/+1 counters among any number of target creatures you control.
III — Until end of turn, creatures you control gain ": This creature fights target creature you don't control." Exile The Grand Evolution, then return it to the battlefield (front face up).
fallow flicker
Both are basically board wipes on their backside
Though Jin is kinda useless on the front
hardy moon
im looking for ways to deal with commanders and non creatures. without loosing all my elves.
fallow flicker
Bane of progress is good for that, though temur mostly deals with creatures. Best bet outside that is counterspells