#Daedalus's Deckbuilding Domain -- Help Appreciated!

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

static spire
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That's NEVER getting cut, card is so incredibly good 😂 best board wipe of them all

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You're honing in on the board wipes, though, and you might not be wrong

green plover
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Hmm now that you mention it, that is actually very true.

static spire
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I think my cut is Ajani, but lemme look at all the board wipes

green plover
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Maybe I should add it in one of my decks ^^'

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Probably Anikthea.

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Since she can best protect it with other Enchantments.

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And yeah, since several of your PLaneswalker have quite efficient target removal already as does your Commadner, board wipes might be less of a priority.

jovial tinsel
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what’s the intention? other than keeping abilities lol

static spire
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No way for anyone to EVER get back any creatures for any reason

static spire
jovial tinsel
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that’s fucked up in anikthea omg

green plover
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Well Mycosinth Lattice and something that turns them into artifact creatures would do the trick.

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Cause all PLaneswalkers would also become artifacts.

static spire
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Mhm...

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I just wish I had an effect similar to WotS Sarkhan 🤔

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I suppose it wouldn't really work anyway

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Since Kaya needs to copy a "creature card" in exile

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And the only walker who exists as a creature card in exile is Grist

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(Who I WISH I could run...)

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...okay, so, to summarize -- I've added new Kaya, new Teysa, Dovehawk, and Elenda, while cutting Ajani, Ashiok, Necro, and Promise of Aclazotz. That's swapping a 3/4/5/5 curve into a 3/4/4/4 curve, which I think is fine

green plover
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Yeah yeah.

static spire
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Before I finalize those swaps, lemme see if I'm overloaded on board wipes 🤔

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I currently run:

  • 3 mana: Toxic Deluge, Out of Time
  • 4 mana: Let's be honest, new Kaya's -2 is basically a wipe
  • 5 mana: Unstable Glyphbridge
  • 6 mana: Elspeth Sun's Champion -3, Eternal Wanderer -4, Tegwyll's Scouring
  • 8 mana: Ugin's -X

I think that Glyphbridge is definitely the weakest of these, but it's still good enough to be running it. 8 wipes is a decent amount, especially when only 4 are dedicated wipes (and the other 4 are a wipe effect on a walker I want to run for other reasons)

green plover
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Yeah since it also provides protection for your planeswalkers if you flip it over.

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I see why you wanted to keep it.

static spire
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But it's an option, and a relevant one

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It does make me sad that Eldrazi Monument only protects me from 3/8 board wipes

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I probably should cut Monument, and may someday

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But it's a pet card

lavish mantle
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thats a lotta board wipes sheeeesh

static spire
lavish mantle
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makes a lot of sense im usually bad for not putting enough removal in decks

static spire
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My commander is spot removal but at a sometimes hard rate ("three white creatures for your creature" is hard when a token engine isn't online), so a few board wipes definitely help

static spire
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Note to self -- need to acquire (italics from new set, strikethrough I should have somewhere):

  • Locust God: Mox Opal, Jeska's Will, Gemstone Caverns, Blasphemous Act, Kylox's Party Wagon
  • Evelyn: Jeweled Lotus, Vampire Charmseeker, Etrata Deadly Fugitive, Vein Ripper
  • Teysa: Nesting Dovehawk, Kaya Spirits' Justice, Teysa Opulent Oligarch
  • Avacyn: Assemble the Players, Agrus Kos Spirit of Justice
  • Yenna: Buried in the Garden
  • Wort: Battle Hymn, Undergrowth Recon, Commercial District, Analyze the Pollen, Aftermath Analyst, Archdruid's Charm
  • Hapatra: [needs full rebuild]
lavish mantle
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thats some juice youre looking to pick up oh my

static spire
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Changes to Evelyn -- CUT Pyre of Heroes, Bloodline Necromancer, Jet Medallion, Bolas's Citadel (total 15); ADD Vein Ripper, Vampire Charmseeker, Etrata, Kalitas (total 21)

zealous ferry
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Interesting on Bolas' cut

jovial tinsel
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@static spire can you explain your thoughts on Agrus Kos in a deck not built around suspect?

glacial cradle
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[[Vampire Charm seeker]] [[vein ripper]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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And if I wanted to test those two new high-cost vamps I wanted to cut something high cost to compensate and not raise curve THAT much haha

static spire
timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/201/éowyn-fearless-knight

Éowyn, Fearless Knight <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Human Knight
Haste
When Éowyn, Fearless Knight enters the battlefield, exile target creature an opponent controls with greater power. Legendary creatures you control gain protection from each of that creature's colors until end of turn.
"Am I not of the House of Eorl? I have waited on faltering feet long enough."
3/4

static spire
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I think he'll get cut in the end but I wanted to try and test him since I do love Agrus Kos in the lore

static spire
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Charmseeker is obviously horribly overcosted, but I'm hoping that maybe I can politic my way into "oh, you need that card to answer the real threatening player? I'll let you have the card if you pay 4 of the assist cost" or whatever

frail quarry
static spire
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I want to test anything which gives me passive advantage under stax and can be blinked to do it more often

static spire
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Now! Time to rework my Wort deck muahaha

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In light of the new stuff from MKM

frail quarry
static spire
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And I've also learned that Evelyn kinda just DIES to aristocrat decks since I can rarely outspeed them

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I ended up in a pod recently with Meren, Teysa Karlov, and Savra. Was an absolute beating.

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No more of that, please. It's Kalitasing time

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[[Vein Ripper]] theoretically is also for that purpose, but might be overcosted

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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It makes me sad that we got TWO mythic vampires this set, and neither is actually that good for Evelyn

frail quarry
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Ravnica traditionally has some decent vamps

static spire
static spire
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Okay, final set of changes after Wort's updates:

  • ADD: Aftermath Analyst, Analyze the Pollen, Archdruid's Charm, Battle Hymn, Commercial District, Undergrowth Recon, Underworld Breach, Rude Awakening (total CMC 18)
  • CUT: Xenagos the Reveler, Carpet of Flowers, Dragon Broodmother, Urza's Saga, Gruul Turf, Life from the Loam, Invasion of Kaldheim, Pair o Dice Lost (total CMC 21)
    ...but I did cut some ramp here, and cut a land, so let's see how it plays 🤔
zealous ferry
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[[Mirko, obsessive]]

timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/2/mirko-obsessive-theorist

Mirko, Obsessive Theorist <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Vampire Detective
Flying, vigilance
Whenever you surveil, put a +1/+1 counter on Mirko, Obsessive Theorist.
At the beginning of your end step, you may return target creature card with power less than Mirko's from your graveyard to the battlefield with a finality counter on it. (If it would die, exile it instead.)
1/3

static spire
zealous ferry
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I didn't check previews first

static spire
zealous ferry
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I posted the same pic you did

static spire
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Ah 😂

zealous ferry
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So obviously you'd seen it

static spire
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On a different topic, today's previews definitely gave me a lot of new stuff 🤔

zealous ferry
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The Clue cards in general?

static spire
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That, and a few other things from the base set yeah

zealous ferry
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Those clue cards were good enough I signed up for the clue launch party

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Because I haven't found other ways to get packs

static spire
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I don't know anything about how to get them honestly

zealous ferry
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The clue game has some

static spire
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Thoughts on [[Case of the Neglected Feast]] in Avacyn, Teysa, and/or Yenna?

timber mesaBOT
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No card found for “Case of the Neglected Feast”

static spire
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sigh

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Case of the Neglected Feast manaw
Enchantment - Case
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you gain 1 life.
To solve - You have gained at least 5 life this turn.
Solved - Sacrifice this case: Creature cards in your graveyard gain "You can cast this card from your graveyard" until end of turn.

zealous ferry
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Yenna is the one that may gain the most from it

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Because you can chain them

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Clone, sac 1, cast, etc.

static spire
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Yenna only runs 18 creatures, so I'm concerned I won't have enough creatures for it to matter, but any self-sacrificing enchantment is definitely my friend there. Especially since Yenna can guarantee I'll always have this around

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On the other hand, it's not an aura, so it taps Yenna down 🤔

zealous ferry
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True

static spire
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I'm also curious, do you think Memory Vampire is good for Evelyn? On one hand, a 6-drop which only does something on combat damage. On the other hand there's at least one Turns player in my meta where I may just be able to turn Memory Vampire into Medomai lol

zealous ferry
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Yenna<-Avacyn<-Teysa is my guess

static spire
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...mostly I'm still just extremely hype for Afterlife Insurance in Teysa

zealous ferry
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My husband will when he sees it finally

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I'm both happy and annoyed that they said they under printed these

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Happy that they gave the heads up

static spire
zealous ferry
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Yeah

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But that's why I think the clue rares are more pushed

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They want it to sell out

static spire
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I'm considering this for Evelyn, not gonna lie.

zealous ferry
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That at least feels worth trying

static spire
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I think the question is what the best two are, among Memory Vampire, [[Vein Ripper]], and [[Vampire Charmseeker]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
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I feel like you want the charmseeker and memory vampire in the same deck

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At 8 mana that's most of the discover 9 evidence

static spire
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If I needed to cut two more cards from Teysa to add these:

Apothecary-White-CLU-672.jpg Afterlife-Insurance-CLU-672.jpg
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...what would be your choices of cuts?

zealous ferry
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Does Apothecary White fit?

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Maybe insurance instead of call the coppercoats?

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If you want her maybe she replaces call the coppercoats

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Just because she also makes w humans but doesn't need your opponents to have creatures?

static spire
# zealous ferry Does Apothecary White fit?

I think she fits decently -- swing with three tokens, make three food, make 3 tokens off her ability?

The next turn she'd make six tokens, and so on.

She feels like a slightly slower but more scaling version of Adeline, and Adeline's been pretty great.

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And she's another effect which quadruples if I control a token doubler (attack with three tokens, make six food, tap six food to make 12 tokens, and so on)

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I was thinking of cutting Unstable Glyphbridge -- you and others have correctly pointed out that I'm running a very large suite of board wipes, perhaps too large. And it's the worst of my 7-ish wipes.

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Maybe Lotho as my other cut

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I've never been happy with how he plays, and less Universes Beyond is better 😉

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(Also, further lowering my curve from 7 mana to 6 in those cards)

zealous ferry
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That new orzhov vampire, whisp drinker just kills the table right?

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With teysa

glacial cradle
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[[Wisp drinker]]

timber mesaBOT
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No card found for “Wisp drinker”

zealous ferry
static spire
zealous ferry
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I missed you weren't using aristocrat drains. But all of the 1/1s would trigger it.

static spire
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Ah! Yeah. But I’m trying hard to keep PWs as the central focus and major wincon haha

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Teysa as a pure token deck would definitely be stronger but it’s a little “normie” 😛

zealous ferry
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Fair!

static spire
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Okay, notes to self -- final changelog after MKM, pending testing. Italic = already tested and earned seal of approval:

  • Avacyn (4 swaps, MV 4446 -> 1244, Color 2W/2WR -> 3W/1WR):
    ADD Devoted Caretaker, Assemble the Players, Agrus Kos Spirit of Justice, Unexplained Absence
    CUT Olorin's Searing Light, Preston the Vanisher, Winota Joiner of Forces, Sun Titan

  • Hapatra (1 swap, MV 3 -> 4, Color 1B -> 1B):
    ADD Massacre Girl Known Killer
    CUT Braids Arisen Nightmare

  • Teysa (7 swaps, MV 1234555 -> 2344444, Color 2W/4B/1WB -> 2W/1B/4WB):
    ADD Afterlife Insurance, Teysa Opulent Oligarch, Kaya Spirits' Justice, Apothecary White, Dominion Scheming, Elenda the Dusk Rose, Nesting Dovehawk
    CUT Body Count, Lotho Corrupt Shirriff, Necropotence, Ajani Strength of the Pride, Promise of Aclazotz, Ashiok Wicked Manipulator, Unstable Glyphbridge

  • Wort (8 swaps, MV 01124455 -> 01223334, Color 2R/3G/3RG -> 1R/6G/1RG):
    ADD Commercial District, Analyze the Pollen, Aftermath Analyst, Underworld Breach, Audience with Trostani, Undergrowth Recon, Archdruid's Charm, Worldsoul's Rage
    CUT Gruul Turf, Carpet of Flowers, Magmatic Insight, Life from the Loam, Xenagos the Reveler, Invasion of Kaldheim, Dragon Broodmother, Pair o' Dice Lost

  • Yenna (2 swaps, MV 22 -> 34, Color 1W/1G/0WG -> 1W/0G/1WG):
    ADD Redemption Arc, Buried in the Garden
    CUT Darksteel Mutation, Fight the _ Fight

  • Locust God (4 swaps, MV 1234 -> 1134, Color 0U/3R/1UR -> 0U/3R/1UR):
    ADD Blasphemous Act, Lightning Bolt, Kylox's Voltstrider, Divergent Transformations
    CUT Firestorm, Goblin Bombardment, Dack Fayden, Invasion of Kaldheim

  • Evelyn (5 swaps, MV 22556 -> 34458, Color 1U/2B/0UB/2C -> 0U/3B/2UB/0C):
    ADD Etrata Deadly Fugitive, Dominion Scheming, Kalitas Traitor of Ghet, Vein Ripper, Vampire Charmseeker
    CUT Jet Medallion, Pyre of Heroes, Kindred Discovery, Bloodline Necromancer, Bolas's Citadel

static spire
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Oh god, I just thought of the dumbest combo.

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So if I have [[Aftermath Specialist]] and [[Ashaya, Soul of the Wild]]

timber mesaBOT
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No card found for “Aftermath Specialist”

static spire
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...if I have both of those, I can drop Vesuva and clone the Aftermath Analyst.

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Which makes a land which can sacrifice itself and instantly return itself tapped for four mana (milling 3 cards in the process).

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Which, okay, neat

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BUT

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if I also have a way to generate four mana off land ETBs -- such as Lotus Cobra plus Tireless Provisioner plus Ancient Greenwarden, for example

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At which point it becomes "mill my whole deck until I hit Field of the Dead, then get infinite Zombies"

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And, if I have a Regrowth effect, I can regrow [[Dryad of the Ilysian Grove]] and kill everyone with infinite Valakut triggers, due to my frankenstine'd Vesuva entering infinite times as a "Land Creature - Elf Detective Forest Mountain Island Swamp Plains" and thus infinitely triggering Valakut ETBs

timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
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Wow

static spire
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If you needed to add five of the 12 cards in the sideboard here, which would you pick? https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Vpiz7R8Rfk-0J7yX0AUQtA

A deck created using Moxfield.
Judgment Day: Avacyn the Purifier EDH [PRIMER] - Commander (Archang...

Avacyn's Creed

On Innistrad, the night was always dark and full of terrors. Humanity struggled against the monstrous forces that preyed on them, but were fighting a losing battle. However, with the help of the archangel Avacyn, they began to turn the tide and survive.

But now, due to the influe...

green plover
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Well Loran's is always useful as a Reclamation/Draw option.

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Argus can serve as functional control or a decent back-up voltron option if needed with the good keywords.

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Trouble in Pairs is excellent draw and can also prevent things like Time Sieve loops.

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Fable of the Mirror-Breaker is Fable of the Meta-Breaker

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And I know you were trying to make a cool alt art for Olrions Searing Light so I think you should use it and it is a very powerful burn spell and removal.

static spire
hazy nimbus
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oooooooooo

frail quarry
static spire
static spire
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@narrow zenith I've been playing Boros control in EDH for ~7-8 years now, this is the list I'm running

narrow zenith
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love the budget!

static spire
narrow zenith
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😛

static spire
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Woof, that's a higher number than it shows on my side

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Odd

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Not that this is a LOW number (though most of the cost is fancy foils etc)

Screenshot_2024-02-01_at_4.17.11_PM.png
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But 4K <<< 7K

narrow zenith
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probly this section

image.png
static spire
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Ah, yeah, that'll do it

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Anyway, when I click "update to cheapest set", it shows this:

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Not gonna say it's CHEAP -- though half of that is from lands, which could be replaced by basics

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But it's a super fun deck I've loved for almost a decade

narrow zenith
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either way trouble in pairs seem very strong

static spire
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For sure!

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I'm still debating whether to run it in Avacyn

narrow zenith
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sense it can effectively trigger 3 times a turn if i read it correct

static spire
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(It might not be as good in Avacyn since I'm already on a bunch of [[Rule of Law]] effects, which shut off one source of the draw)

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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But I've already tested it in my Yenna list, and it was preeeeetty absurd there

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(Admittedly it was playing against a bunch of storm and turns players, so it was kinda the best-case scenario)

narrow zenith
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already have super hatebears so my boros wont be hatebear deck 😄

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but sweet deck

static spire
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Thanks!

thin kayak
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I do love checking the cost of my decks at times, having an ABUR dual skews it massively. Turned my $150 deck into nearly $1k, deck isnt great compared to most actual $1k decks.

static spire
static spire
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Three potential cards for my Avacyn deck already 🤔

pip-codsworth-handy-helper-v0-pnd0rr9clsjc1.png image.png image.png
static spire
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Some late-night deckbuilding on Yenna -- I have space for eight of the following.

1 Anointed Procession
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Jukai Naturalist
1 Parallel Lives
1 Sylvan Library
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Ethereal Armor
1 Redemption Arc
1 Strong Back
1 Well-Rested
1 Feral Hunger
1 Doubling Season
1 Ancestral Mask

...which means I need to cut five. Thoughts?

thin kayak
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Why do you need parallel lives? (benefits everyone else too)
Do you think doubling season is actually worth it? (I often cast this as a 5 mana do nothing spell and it usually dies before i get much out of it)
Sylvan Library is a must - card is too good.
Concordant Crossroads could enable someone else to go off? Thats my only downside to it.
Hall is a great card.
Anointed (see doubling season)
Strong Back is broken.
Redemption Arc seems ok? Not much to say on this one.
Jukai is just an ok card in enchantress.
Well rested is crazy strong.
Ethereal is ethereal, play it if you need more power.
Ancestral mask seems bad to me, 3 mana and its only +2/+2, 3 is a lot for an aura. It needs to do more than just buff power imo.

sage cloak
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
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Also token doublers are broke, and when they’re not super broke, they are pretty fun!

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[[yenna]]

timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/woe/219/yenna-redtooth-regent

Yenna, Redtooth Regent <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Elf Noble
mana2, manat: Choose target enchantment you control that doesn't have the same name as another permanent you control. Create a token that's a copy of it, except it isn't legendary. If the token is an Aura, untap Yenna, Redtooth Regent, then scry 2. Activate only as a sorcery.
"My people are both bloom and thorn."
4/4

sage cloak
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Not to mention, she makes two token copies of either parallel or anointed so the rest of your tokens are 8x

thin kayak
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My only gripe with all token doublers is, unless you get it for free or discounted it’s often way too high of a mana investment for no instant reward. Usually it’s hard to get the 4 or 5 mana investment out of the card the turn you play it.

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Token triplers however. That’s a different story, they’re worth trying to punt it and pray no one has removal, because that’s an insane amount of tokens.

sage cloak
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Ojer taq only works with creature tokens unfortunately

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At least with Yenna, she can immediately make two copies of a token doubler

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For 6 mana, making three parallel lives seems like a good deal

thin kayak
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If you have the mana open sure and if the token doubler resolves then ok

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My personal local meta, no one ever resolves/keeps token doublers. Not ever.

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They've seen what they do too often if left unchecked

sage cloak
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Sounds like you have too many blue players

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Time for [[choke]] and [[boil]]

timber mesaBOT
thin kayak
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Yeah then they'll counter those 🤣

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My meta does have too much removal lately

sage cloak
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That just means you can resolve your parallel lives! Ez lmao

thin kayak
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I used to complain there wasnt enough

sage cloak
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Could also do [[price of glory]]

timber mesaBOT
thin kayak
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I now have a deck thats got 37 pieces of interaction/boardwipes.

sage cloak
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lol. That is too much.

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I made a meme deck that had 46 and I thought that was ridiculous

thin kayak
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Its rough to play through, people dont let me play it often

sage cloak
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What’s the deck? Sounds like ishai nonsense

thin kayak
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Queza

sage cloak
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Even worse

thin kayak
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orcish bowmasters + peer into the abyss with Queza out

sage cloak
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Queza “oops, all removal” Is probably the biggest sleeper groaner of a deck

thin kayak
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its horrific

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I wont lie its heinous

sage cloak
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I think combos really bring out that kind of stuff

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Your win is condensed into a small pile of cards, so the rest can just be entirely value

thin kayak
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Its literally peer into the abyss, notion thief, orcish bowmasters, Sheoldred the apocalypse

sage cloak
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Exactly

thin kayak
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Then throw in the one ring for good measure

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The rest of the deck is just haha...what about no?

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But anyways back on track, I stand by most of my comments above about the cards Daedalus listed.

My opinion on token doubling is warped though because my experience is the cards do nothing.

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For me anointed procession reads: mana3manaw you may discard this card. Your opponent may point and laugh at your misfortune.

static spire
frail quarry
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Ancestral Mask is far stronger than Well Rested

static spire
timber mesaBOT
thin kayak
static spire
# thin kayak I play Kibo is my response to your first question. Ancestral mask is just an o...

Ancestral Mask also counts your opponents' enchantments -- it's pretty easy to have 10 enchantments in this deck, and +20 is a very different thing from +10 in my experience. The question, to me, is whether Strong Back gives enough upside to compensate for the lower power boost compared to Ancestral Mask (given that I actually... don't have as many auras as one might think that are cast on my own creatures).

frail quarry
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[[ancestral mask]]

timber mesaBOT
frail quarry
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(For reference)

thin kayak
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Unless your opp is playing enchantments too, the likelihood is that they have maybe 5 collectively. (or at least this is my experience in my local meta)

static spire
thin kayak
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Personally when im playing an enchantress style deck I often have more than 10 enchantments myself.

static spire
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I like Ancestral Mask because, if I can hit, it just obliterates someone. No ifs, ands, or buts -- accept no substitutes.

frail quarry
static spire
frail quarry
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It’s all enchantments too…auras, curses, enchantment creatures

static spire
frail quarry
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Also sorry if this seems like it’s dogpiling, obviously you have your own experiences and I’m sure you’re coming from a valid place

thin kayak
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Kibo + sting + well rested = draw 4, gain 8 gain +8/+8 per turn cycle.

static spire
static spire
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With regards to Well Rested, for Yenna, I can drop it on Yenna, immediately tap to clone it, then Yenna untaps and triggers both. So it's 4 mana draw 2 on the turn I cast it, then a passive "free" draw 2 every future turn if Yenna survives 🤔

thin kayak
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Also Kibo just wants to tap all the time to either activate for bananas or force people to sac stuff. So thats definitely triggering every single one of your turns at least.

thin kayak
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For me personally. I dont see ancestral mask as a great card. Maybe im wrong on this one but reading it makes it seem overcosted to me.

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Ill wait for the local voltron player to pick it up and see it in practice and maybe it plays better than it reads

static spire
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For the moment I'm thinking about cutting:

  • Anointed Procession
  • Parallel Lives
  • Ethereal Armor
  • Sylvan Library
  • Concordant Crossroads
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Compared to the online list: CUT Ethereal, Parallel, Anointed, Sylvan, Concordant (total CMC: 12)
ADD Ancestral Mask, Fight the Fight, Doubling Season, Strong Back, Well Rested (total CMC: 15)

thin kayak
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Cutting sylvan library seems wild to me

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the card is actuallly broken

frail quarry
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Listen I’m all for cutting anointed and parallel lives… in my experience they’re Win-More cards. Like yeah it’s a Timmy feeling of doubling tokens but I’d rather have something which draws less hate + is more useful outside of Just Tokens

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But yeah sylvan being cut seems wilds - card is cracked

static spire
thin kayak
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I dont really know what to say, imo thats arguably the most broken enchantment in the game.

static spire
frail quarry
#

Mm. That’s fair. I trust your play experience more than the flat value of the card. What hasn’t been working for you? Is the 3 cards a turn selection not worth it? Or is the life payment too much?

thin kayak
#

I forgot necro for a sec

#

Underworld is strong sure, but you can see that coming from a mile off, its a combo card

frail quarry
#

Would [[mirri’s guile]] be better for you? Or do you just find yourself wanting a different effect?

timber mesaBOT
thin kayak
#

but yeah ok Necro is the strongest enchantment and id say sylvan is probs second, then underworld breach. (again, my opinion)

frail quarry
#

I think I’d personally swap breach and sylvan in that order just because of the sheer combo insanity - because it is basically a yawgs will which doesn’t exile the cards. But those three being the best enchantments sounds right to me

static spire
# frail quarry Mm. That’s fair. I trust your play experience more than the flat value of the ca...

The problem is severalfold.

I never want to put cards back, because then I have to draw through them -- also because I'm greedy in general. So I end up paying 4-8 per turn. But this deck is very bad at protecting its life total. There's just too many winnable games that I lose because of the life payments to Sylvan: it's not like I'm lacking other draw, I'm playing enchantress 😂 Sylvan can be nice because it lets me rebuild if I get blown out, I guess, but even then I'm paying too much life?

4 life per card is just not a good rate, in a deck running something like 20 massive draw engines, where I most often die to aggro.

Pair that with the OTHER big problem, which is its lack of immediacy -- if I draw Sylvan, I don't want to wait until my next turn to draw. I would rather draw any enchantress piece. Hence why I'm considering Well Rested as a moderately 1-for-1 swap over it: if I control my commander (which is, I'll admit, not a guarantee), it's an immediate draw 2, then an additional passive draw 2 each turn. Same mana cost as Sylvan but it "cantrips" immediately.

frail quarry
#

That’s all sound reasoning

#

Makes sense to me!

static spire
#

Like I said, it feels WRONG to cut such a famously powerful card.

#

But 95% of the time I draw it, I find myself wishing for anything else.

#

And I discard it reasonably often if I'm given the chance to loot.

frail quarry
#

At that point, yeah, its worth cutting

static spire
#

Even on turn 2, I'd rather be casting an enchantress or a land-untapper or a Fertile Ground or...

frail quarry
#

Yes it’s powerful, but if you don’t enjoy playing it, there’s no NEED to play it

static spire
#

(As opposed to Concordant Crossroad, which I keep dying to 😂 despite how useful it can be sometimes)

frail quarry
#

I’ve found I’ve enjoyed my decks a lot more building them in a way which I enjoy rather than following traditional standards of what “is good”

frail quarry
static spire
#

On the other hand: oh GOD I've cast it and gotten myself killed too many times.

#

The natural response is, of course, "don't cast it in those situations, then"

#

which is fair, but 1) then it's worse than a dead card, and 2) it can be hard to identify those situations

frail quarry
#

A card which sandbags itself more than it sees play is just not worth playing imo

static spire
#

The other card I was poking at was [[Case of the Locked Hothouse]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

But again, the problem is lack of immediacy

#

"waiting until my next turn" is a real big problem in a 4-player format

static spire
timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

I went with Doubling Season over Anointed / Parallel, since it's also got the combo with Three Blind Mice, and it helps with immediacy (seeing a pattern?) with some of my sagas. I think that's worth the 1 extra mana. Plus there's a TINY bit of other counter manipulation, I guess?

...but it does make me sad to cut Parallel Lives, since I have the Eldraine version which literally is flavored after the same group of were-foxes Yenna rules 😭

thin kayak
#

Can you link your yenna list again as I found my yenna and a pile of enchantress stuff from my old sythis and tom bombadil

static spire
# thin kayak Can you link your yenna list again as I found my yenna and a pile of enchantress...

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Z2ncRwIRXkCVlTemWtYo7Q

A deck created using Moxfield.
Foxen Before Moxen: Yenna EDH [PRIMER] - Commander (Yenna, Redtooth...

Reynard

Welcome!

This deck is a hybrid combo/control enchantress/elfball deck, centered around a were-fox (Yenna, Redtooth Regent ) and her kitsune GF (Light-Paws, Emperor's Voice – essentially our secret second partner commander).

You may like this deck if:

  • You enjoy complex sequencing, ...
thin kayak
#

That is a juicy list. Some pennies have been spent here

static spire
#

I hope they print another [[Overgrowth]] effect soon

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

We got [[Buried in the Garden]] recently, which was awesome, but I need more

timber mesaBOT
jovial tinsel
#

not sure how often you stack auras on one creature but could you consider this?

Strong-Back-extended-PIP-672.png
static spire
green plover
#

I mean I do think there may be another Overgrowth style effect soon.

#

The next set Spoilers aside might be able to.

#

What about [[Wolfwillow Haven]] [[Market Festival]] [[Find the Path]] [[Urban Burgeoning]] ?

timber mesaBOT
static spire
frail quarry
green plover
#

Ah X3

static spire
timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

But that one is a little too sketchy even for me

#

Since just about my only elf is Yenna herself haha

green plover
#

Awesome in certain matchups, average at most.

static spire
green plover
#

Ooh what about [[Nature's Embrace]]

timber mesaBOT
green plover
#

Always loved the art on it.

#

Plus you could use it twofold.

static spire
#

The issue is that it still has the “enchanted land gains T: add 2” clause rather than “whenever tapped for mana add additional”

#

So having two copies on the same land doesn’t do anything

#

And since a lot of my ramp rotates around “untap target land”

#

I’m trying to stay with the triggered ability ones

green plover
#

I get what you mean yeah.

zealous ferry
#

So, tangential to Tato farmer, how are you feeling about Rad counters especially since you have a proliferate deck?

static spire
#

Got replaced by Lonis creaturestorm

#

But if I still had it, I think rad would be fine but not broken?

#

Anything which places counters on players is hard to manipulate and win with. I mean, compare a poison counter to rad

#

Not to mention that filling GYs is often a positive benefit

#

It’s telling that the rad cards I most from this set are all cards which put rad onto myself

zealous ferry
#

Right, that was what happened to it

#

I want to put them on myself too

#

The zombie decks are the ones that I'd see the benefit of putting them on opponents just because you should be able to math it so that it at least kills all of them.

#

Between [[Feral Ghoul]] and [[Hancock]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

I think the only deck where I’d play Feral Ghoul would be Marchesa?

#

Since you could easily get him to 6 power every turn = 24 rad per turn cycle

#

Toss your opponents into the glowing sea

zealous ferry
#

Yeah, gravecrawler is obviously the obvious combo piece. (we did it...)

last atlas
#

Daedalus, being from the same set and both being mythic angels, would you say that [[archangel Avacyn]] or [[sigarda, heron's grace]] is more powerful/has more potential?

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/soi/5/archangel-avacyn-avacyn-the-purifier

Archangel Avacyn <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Angel
Flash
Flying, vigilance
When Archangel Avacyn enters the battlefield, creatures you control gain indestructible until end of turn.
When a non-Angel creature you control dies, transform Archangel Avacyn at the beginning of the next upkeep.
4/4

Avacyn, the Purifier
Legendary Creature — Angel
Flying
When this creature transforms into Avacyn, the Purifier, it deals 3 damage to each other creature and each opponent.
"Wings that once bore hope are now stained with blood. She is our guardian no longer." —Grete, cathar apostate
6/5

glacial cradle
#

I'd assume Avacyn given that's one she has a deck built around.

static spire
#

On a different topic, in Izzet colors, what creatures would you LEAST like to get hit by?

last atlas
static spire
last atlas
jovial tinsel
#

[[goldspan dragon]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Cephalid Constable]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Hellkite Tyrant]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Mist-syndicate naga]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Spawning Kraken]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Either of the ancient dragons

#

[[Balefire Dragon]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Balor]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Delina, wild mage]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[fleet swallower]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

I'm just going through my head and thinking of annoying attack/damage triggers in izzet

#

[[Ryan Sinclair]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/who/94/ryan-sinclair

Ryan Sinclair <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Human
Whenever Ryan attacks, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card. You may cast the exiled card without paying its mana cost if it's a spell with mana value less than or equal to Ryan's power. Put the exiled cards not cast this way on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Doctor's companion (You can have two commanders if the other is the Doctor.)
2/2

zealous ferry
#

[[Thundering Raiju]] [[Threefold Thunderhulk]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Utvara Hellkite]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

I think that's it

static spire
#

@zealous ferry I see we still share a brain cell, I also love Constable

zealous ferry
#

It's a weird card that I have and have never had the courage to put in a deck.

#

Because I know full well if I do I'll make it huge and instantly it will be taken and I'll be killed with it.

static spire
zealous ferry
#

More than you'd expect.

#

Last time I played my Hylda deck she got zealous conscripts'd the third time I cast her and then she attacked me and flung at my face after combat

#

The main theft commander I see is [[Yasova Dragonclaw]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

The Zealous conscripts commander was [[Orthion, Hero of Lavabrink]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/334/orthion-hero-of-lavabrink

Orthion, Hero of Lavabrink <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Human Soldier
mana1manar, manat: Create a token that's a copy of another target creature you control. It gains haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step. Activate only as a sorcery.
mana6manarmanarmanar, manat: Create five tokens that are copies of another target creature you control. They gain haste. Sacrifice them at the beginning of the next end step. Activate only as a sorcery.
3/3

static spire
static spire
#

You know

#

I was looking back through Fallout

#

and realized how good [[Grim Reaper's Sprint]] might be for Avacyn

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Since I have self-sacrificing creatures, etc

#

But now that means I need to reskin another thing 😂

#

It also means I need to find another cut

#

What would you cut from here?

zealous ferry
#

The split second equip spell didn't work?

static spire
#

I need to figure out the exact name and potential flavor text

#

but the idea of "get an extra combat step for cheap, if a creature died this turn" fits the trial of zeal VERY well

zealous ferry
#

True!

jovial tinsel
static spire
jovial tinsel
#

yeah i get that, but it sort of flops on the go fast hit hard part

#

use it if you want, i don’t have a better piece in mind ¯_(ツ)_/¯

static spire
#

I think it just needs a perfectly fitting name

jovial tinsel
#

that would help tie it together better yeah

zealous ferry
#

I'm reading the list and my brain is coming up with wrong answers only like Mana Vault

#

[[Inventory management]] is the equip spell

timber mesaBOT
static spire
green plover
#

Ooh lemme help!

zealous ferry
#

It may be that I'm reading it wrong. It basically is "rearrange all your auras and equipment" right?

#

It's not just piling on a voltron

static spire
#

I didn't end up including it though

#

as neat as it could be

zealous ferry
#

I couldn't remember what your reaction was to it.

green plover
#

Name Ideas: Fervent Dedication, Protector's Instinct, Hazoret's Rally, Final initiation, Reaching the Top, Highest Honor, Dutybound

static spire
#

name tbd, obviously, but I really, really love how this art looks in this frame

Grim_Reapers_Sprint_Hazorets_Zeal.png
zealous ferry
#

There's a phrase with Jeanne d'Arc that fits and I'm trying tonremember it

green plover
#

Name Idea: Remembered By, Closing the Arc, Off To Glory, Trasncended Existence, Life After Death

static spire
#

How dare [[Glorious End]] already be taken lol

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Inspiring martyrdom?

static spire
#

Hm, that feels even closer...

#

"Zealous End"? or something?

#

"Die in Glory" is punchy

green plover
#

Name Idea: Lived a Dream, Attained End, As the World Turns, Legends Are Made

static spire
#

Those are a liiiiiiittle flowery -- not that I mind flowery if it fits right, but those sorta diverge from the focus I'm aiming for

green plover
#

Ah XD.

#

Ok so more straightforward MTG.

static spire
#

slightly more straightforward 😂 I do like off-beat suggestions if they feel sufficiently Hazorety/Zealous/Amonkhety

zealous ferry
#

[[Gloria's charge]] also frustratingly a card

timber mesaBOT
green plover
#

Recognized By Gods, Mortality Realized, Peak of Humanity

static spire
#

(oh HECK -- for the previous card, "Ikaros of Waxbound Wings" is such a kickass name, gotta change that now)

static spire
timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Oh, is there any lore related to Glorybringer and relationship to the gods?

#

Glorybringer's Gift?

green plover
#

Stepping Into Eternity, Becoming a Legend, Hazoret's Gratitude

zealous ferry
#

Amonkhet is one of my patchy places

green plover
#

Well name aside, I have an idea for the flavor text.

static spire
static spire
static spire
zealous ferry
#

To explain the cut I suggested. Cutting a tutor feels wrong and the creatures are a mix of tutors and control/removal pieces

green plover
#

"She trained us to live for our death and be immortalized for our zeal and fervor. I see how she is the last God standing."- Surviving Initiate

static spire
zealous ferry
#

Mana Vault.

#

So like, maybe steelshaper's gift because it's the most limited tutor even if it's cheapest?

static spire
#

gonna have to sell me on cutting Vault ngl 😂

zealous ferry
#

Precisely

static spire
#

yeah, the list is... very tight

zealous ferry
#

You're shaving millimeters here

green plover
#

Decimal points

zealous ferry
#

Maybe the mom that is just instants/sorceries?

#

Ugh.

static spire
zealous ferry
#

Yeah

#

I love her as a card too.

static spire
#

ooooh

#

"Worthy Death"

#

Perish in Glory
Worthy Death
Die a Legend

Okay, I think it's slowly coming together. All of these are very close to my intention.

green plover
#

Awesome!

static spire
#

In Avacyn, tentatively I'm cutting [[Cathar Commando]] and [[Cloudshift]] for [[Grim Reaper's Sprint]] and [[Flicker of Fate]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

The idea of being able to blink Grim Reaper's Sprint seems hilarious

#

plus it lets me recover from theft effects, should they occur

#

(or politic by allowing reuse or protection of enemy creatures and ETBs)

jovial tinsel
static spire
#

Okay so, I've had a thought

#

Grim Reaper's Sprint turns Sunforger into a 1-card kill, I think

#

Pull Sunforger to cast Enlightened Tutor, use it to fetch Grim Reaper's Sprint then draw it.

#
  • Re-equip Sunforger. Cast Sprint in first main phase, hopefully for 1R thanks to my various self-sacrificing creatures. Swing for 10, then another 10 (since Avacyn has vigilance).
  • Pull Sunforger in second main phase. Tutor Flicker of Fate. Blink Sprint.
  • Swing for another 6.

That's 26 commander damage for ideally RW+3+1R+RW, split over two turns.

#

It's even easier if I have something like SoFaF/Reaver Cleaver/Professional Face-Breaker/PIP-Boy 3000.

#

...it's also making me want to put Winter Orb / Static Orb back in 🤔 since my meta is getting stronger.

last atlas
static spire
frail quarry
static spire
last atlas
# static spire how so?

Arms race as they said, which leads to more spending. When there is less restriction the line between competitive and not is blurred

static spire
last atlas
#

Distinction between casual and cEDH is not real anyways

ocean tree
#

I’d love to see Daedalus finally take the weights off and take the list into full-bore cEDH

static spire
#

Hey, can anyone help me find one cut for Avacyn?

timber mesaBOT
deft crypt
static spire
deft crypt
#

That's why I asked how you would feel about it, varies from experience to experience laugh I'm going off not playing the deck before I'll look through some more

last atlas
deft crypt
#

Is rose your only reliable source of Junk tokens?

static spire
static spire
deft crypt
#

Hmm I might recommend Rosie, yes you are getting rid of a card draw instance and Mana gain theirs some downsides to it that your deck has in it that a control player could take advantage of laugh

#

I'd sideboard her probably

glacial cradle
#

[[rosie]]

timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
#

[[rose]]

timber mesaBOT
#

Multiple cards match “rose”, can you be more specific?

frail quarry
timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/pip/66/rose-cutthroat-raider

Rose, Cutthroat Raider <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Artifact Creature — Robot
First strike
Raid — At end of combat on your turn, if you attacked this turn, create a Junk token for each opponent you attacked. (It's an artifact with "manat, Sacrifice this artifact: Exile the top card of your library. You may play that card this turn. Activate only as a sorcery.")
Whenever you sacrifice a Junk, add manar.
3/2

static spire
deft crypt
#

If a player comes in and copies or takes control of [[Drannith Magistrate]] then Junk tokens actually become more of a hazard than a boon especially if someone runs [[Overencumbered]] now. Outside of that you have [[Phyrexian Censor]] and Archon of Emeria. Unless I'm misunderstanding the effect that would make junk tokens inefficient to use due the effect being "play from exile".

timber mesaBOT
static spire
green plover
#

So what cards are you eyeing as things to possibly remove?

static spire
# green plover So what cards are you eyeing as things to possibly remove?

Apologies, I didn't see your message until now!

At present I think I'm gonna try this set of changes:

ADD: Crop Rotation, Sylvan Library, Enlightened Tutor, Abundance, Marsh Flats, Stony Silence, Worldly Tutor

CUT: Aura of Silence, Hall of the Bandit Lord, Bear Umbra, Alseid of Life's Bounty, Jukai Naturalist, Redemption Arc, Strong Back

This lowers the total CMC, adds a bit of ramp and tutoring power, and slightly tightens up the stax options. If Abundance doesn't work out, that's the lowest priority among the current adds. I'm also skeptical on Sylvan Library here (as I think I've mentioned before), but I want to do the wombo-combo with Abundance 😂

static spire
#

...also ugh, I think I might finally swap over to Darksteel Mutation > Reprobation. It's a shame because Yenna actually wants the creatures to die, so I can re-copy the aura, and an indestructible creature discourages my opponents swinging at each other. Plus I like being contrarian with my card choices.

But now that I'm cutting Redemption Arc, I need at least one sneaky way to grant indestructible + hexproof to Light-Paws when needed...

green plover
#

Yeah I agree I think Alseid should go.

#

Also indestructible and hexproof you say...?

#

What about [[Join Shields]]?

timber mesaBOT
static spire
# green plover What about [[Join Shields]]?

Too much mana, unfortunately -- I wanted a tutorable way to do it with Paws' innate ability! But I can do so, by combining an indestructibility aura (previously Redemption Arc, now Darksteel Mutation) with Canopy Cover!

green plover
#

Ah! Thats's good!

static spire
#

Admittedly it does eventually turn off Paws's ability, but that's fine once she's giant and protected lol

zealous ferry
#

[[Shield of the oversoul]] is too much?

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

oh wait that just does both for like yenna

#

So what about [[Sigarda's Aid]] though now? You have a lot of auras that would like having flash

timber mesaBOT
static spire
zealous ferry
#

Hmm

static spire
static spire
glacial cradle
#

How often do you run into fixing issues?

#

Like, not having the right color at the right time?

#

If it's usually fine, I'd think about cutting one of your typed tapped duals. Maintaining your basic count is relevant for this deck, and those seem like the lands doing the least.

#

Uhhh, as for my bad advice, cut sol ring

static spire
static spire
glacial cradle
#

My figuring is you have like, 7 or 8 of them? So cutting one might be reasonable.

zealous ferry
static spire
zealous ferry
#

So, the only potential cut I could see is [[Carpet of Flowers]] and that's heavily dependent on how often it makes you more than 1 mana before t3.

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

And I'm not talking about you get it regularly by then, but in terms of the games you play, if you would get a copy of it, how often would it be mana postitive.

#

Because I still play at a store where it's a very large chance that, even at the higher tables, it's, at best, neutral.

#

On stripmine in Wort, how has [[Woodland Guidance]] played?

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

I'm not suggesting it as a cut. It's just interesting as one of two regrowth cards.

#

[[Tempt with Discovery]] is probably my suggested cut but that's because I'm at a store with people who never take the temptation.

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

My substitution for it has been [[Pir's Whim]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

I know it gets it into play untapped, which is huge.

#

There's just something frustrating about being the person opponents are always good about paying their taxes for. (though nice because it means I don't feel pressured to run rhystic or tithe)

glacial cradle
#

I've seen so many 3 or 4 land tempts

#

I did tutor out demolition field once when the gate deck played tempt with discovery, but they voidslimed it.

static spire
static spire
static spire
static spire
static spire
#

On a different topic, has anyone tried building [[Ayesha Tanaka, Armorer]]? Was she fun?

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/29/ayesha-tanaka-armorer

Ayesha Tanaka, Armorer <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
Whenever Ayesha Tanaka, Armorer attacks, look at the top four cards of your library. You may put any number of artifact cards with mana value less than or equal to Ayesha's power from among them onto the battlefield tapped. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Ayesha can't be blocked as long as defending player controls three or more artifacts.
2/4

frail quarry
#

I brewed a list online a couple of weeks ago which seemed sweet, but goldfishing online only does so much. I can share it with you if you'd like?

zealous ferry
#

I keep poking at her. the one problem has been making sure opponents have enough artifacts.

zealous ferry
static spire
frail quarry
frail quarry
zealous ferry
#

That does look pretty sweet

frail quarry
#

The idea was to run a critical mass of artifacts - equipments, artifact creatures, artifact lands, etc to ensure a large hit off of Tanaka's ability, with a voltron subtheme and general support cards

#

I also tried to keep the curve pretty low - obv there are ways to buff Tanaka's power but she starts at 2, so if a large chunk of your artifacts have mana value ~2, you could theoretically draw 4 cards per attack, and that's ~basically~ Pako and Haldan level lol (i know it's not close, but still)

glacial cradle
#

Tempt has a really complex resource assessment that comes with it. I do think it's only worthwhile if your deck has lands good enough to spend 4 mana on.

#

Like Field of the Dead, Maze's End, Gaia's Cradle

zealous ferry
glacial cradle
#

Cradle is way outside of what people around me play, so it doesn't come up in my mind much. Field of the Dead and Valakut can also be wincons in a heavy ramp deck tho.

zealous ferry
#

Yeah, and Valakut and Field don't matter if they come into play tapped or not. Which is why the whim works as a substitution for me.

static spire
zealous ferry
#

That's one of the best ways to do it.

frail quarry
zealous ferry
#

Stuff like [[aqueous form]] and [[Attentive sunscribe]] too

timber mesaBOT
frail quarry
static spire
#

Am I missing something great about Sunscribe?

glacial cradle
#

I mean it can be timed to happen right before the trigger

#

Which I guess is the thought process

#

Cuz you attack with both of em and make use of that scry

frail quarry
#

I dunno, is there another 1mv artifact which provides similar value? [[wishing well]] maybe?

timber mesaBOT
frail quarry
#

Oh wait [[candlestick | mkm]]

timber mesaBOT
frail quarry
#

I like that a lot better than sunscribe lol

static spire
vast vale
#

Not related to cuts but...

image.png
#

Sera of the scales

static spire
#

(or a glitch)

vast vale
#

Ngl its almost too funny

static spire
# vast vale Sera of the scales

But she's so pretty 😭 and for one mana more than Ministrant of Obligation, she flies and she's black (so she makes another white token for Teysa) 🤔

vast vale
#

Sera of the scales seems eh, personally would run the vampire version of sun titan you got in the side board

#

True

#

Ngl I thought the double deaths was the teysa in the zone

static spire
vast vale
#

Hmm

#

[[Rout]] vs [[Tegwyll's Scouring]], I assume you want the bodies but why not both?

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Rout as a 7-mana wipe isn't exactly what i'm aiming for

vast vale
#

The comparison was instant speed

vast vale
#

[[Final showdown]]

timber mesaBOT
thin kayak
#

Yo final showdown kinda rocks. 7 mana definitely kills everything at instant speed regardless of what it is.

frail quarry
timber mesaBOT
thin kayak
frail quarry
#

Spree is additional costs you pay each time you would cast the spell

thin kayak
#

oh cool so instead of one white you can reuse it over and over for 2 mana +spree costs

#

That sounds..... fun for my friends

frail quarry
jovial tinsel
#

that’s so cool

static spire
sage cloak
#

Alright, Daedalus - new marchesa.

#

Can I suggest non-instants and sorceries that are rakdos/izzet?

#

Because a couple of the rakdos cards fit super well here

#

Or are just big beaters with value

static spire
#

I'm brewing as we speak

sage cloak
#

Oh shoot, so this allows mono colored cards

#

But yeah - [[Rakdos’s Return]] should 100% be in for a control list

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Same as [[mind twist]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

The reason this deck is three-color is because i haven't decided on how to color crop yet lol

#

Black gives reanimation and some better wincons (and Bowmasters)

#

blue gives better spellslinger and better control

sage cloak
#

Oh

#

Okay I’m getting it

static spire
#

and I definitely want red because [[Urabrask]] is just TOO COOL with her

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/169/urabrask-the-great-work

Urabrask <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Praetor
First strike
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, Urabrask deals 1 damage to target opponent. Add manar.
manar: Exile Urabrask, then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery and only if you've cast three or more instant and/or sorcery spells this turn.
4/4

The Great Work
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — The Great Work deals 3 damage to target opponent and each creature they control.
II — Create three Treasure tokens.
III — Until end of turn, you may cast instant and sorcery spells from any graveyard. If a spell cast this way would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead. Exile The Great Work, then return it to the battlefield (front face up).

sage cloak
#

Same as birgi and Storm-kiln artist

static spire
#

Urabrask's ability is also a crime itself, admittedly

sage cloak
#

Oh wait…

static spire
#

also, wait, is [[duelist of the mind]] limited to once per turn?

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

That’s infinite

static spire
#

Dammit

static spire
sage cloak
#

Wait no I’m stuoid

#

Dw about me

#

So color cropping - that means to only use two or one of the three colors?

#

Ooh - ground rift is sweet

static spire
sage cloak
#

So I should note, if you’re gonna do a color crop I’d recommend essentially turning her into rakdos control. You’d do blue for spellslinger nonsense and card draw but if you want it to be a control deck you want to have black in your pie

#

That way you get all the super efficient removal

#

Without it being counterspell.deck

#

She shores up the issues with card draw

#

Then for your finishers you can use big-ass dragons and demons

static spire
#

but there's a few really cool blue cards I'd be sad to lose

frail quarry
timber mesaBOT
frail quarry
#

Or were you talking about Rakdos the legendary demon

static spire
timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/otj/220/marchesa-dealer-of-death

Marchesa, Dealer of Death <:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Human Rogue
Whenever you commit a crime, you may pay 1. If you do, look at the top two cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the other into your graveyard. (Targeting opponents, anything they control, and/or cards in their graveyards is a crime.)
"You should have folded when you had the chance."
3/4

frail quarry
static spire
green plover
#

Huh, I didn't think new Marchesa was going to be built so quickly.

#

Very interesting to see what you put together.

static spire
#

I’m still in progress with it TBF

sage cloak
#

I just looked through your deck - Jesus Christ marchesa is broken

#

There’s so many little one mana target abilities

vast vale
#

[[Touch of darkness]]

timber mesaBOT
vast vale
#

Or is that only one trigger(?)

frail quarry
static spire
#

I'm really liking how this deck is coming together

#

Anyone able to help me with the last few cuts?

sage cloak
#

The new Rakdos seems out of place here

#

You’re not necessarily wanting to sacrifice, no?

zealous ferry
#

Checking Toxrill is just control piece here and not for crimes (because it doesn't directly)

#

I want to recommend one of the imp creators over Toxrill, but that doesn't help with cuts

#

[[Zurzoth, Chaos Rider]] or either judith

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Your decks have the problem of having a mix of really impactful creatures and compelling synergies which makes suggesting cuts more difficult.

#

I also think the problem this deck is having is you've converted the one you were working on with Rakdos.

#

And some of the things it's doing are focused on Rakdos being on the battlefield.

#

For full value of the sacrifice subtheme, etc.

#

[[Hoarding Broodlord]] is a tutor that lets you cast spells with convoke from exile but Rakdos is the only other impulse piece.

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Back of birgi and tiny bones (surprised ragavan isn't in this list)

#

I always forget her back

static spire
static spire
static spire
sage cloak
#

Fair enough

static spire
#

It’s just crazy good value when reanimated

static spire
static spire
#

There’s a lot of aristocrats who commit crimes which was, in theory, the unifying theme rather than just “haha crimes I guess”?

#

The theory was a mix of aristocrats and reanimator to all loop crimes when possible

static spire
sage cloak
#

I would definitely want to go a more control/permission route but I think this is a neat idea too

zealous ferry
#

I linked it before

static spire
static spire
sage cloak
#

Let me check something

zealous ferry
#

On phone with an injured arm so will be slow/less descriptive

sage cloak
#

[[counterbalance]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Ah dangit

static spire
static spire
#

You know what DOES target though??

sage cloak
#

I don’t know for certain off the top of my head, but mostly a lot of targeted removal

static spire
#

[[Kozilek the Great Distortion]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Lmao

zealous ferry
timber mesaBOT
#

Multiple cards match “Urza's glasses”, can you be more specific?

sage cloak
#

As much repeated removal as you can ideally

#

OOH

#

[[Tetsuo Umezawa]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Perfect

zealous ferry
#

Sorry, [[glasses of urza]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Lmao

#

That’s awesome

static spire
sage cloak
#

But yeah, youre mostly going to want a lot of two-for-1s, repeated (targeted) discard, ripping hands and stomping permanents

#

Well, you’ve got the counterspells

#

Offer you can’t refuse, fierce guardianship, deflecting swat, swan song

#

Then you’ve got one mana removal like bolt, flame slash, cut down,

zealous ferry
#

It's too bad you're doing rakdos

sage cloak
#

Like I said before, [[rakdos’s return]] and [[mind twist]] are great here

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

If you can rip an opponent of as much card advantage as possible it’ll work out really well

jovial tinsel
#

[[molten collapse]] you can descend for 1 mana if you commit a crime in a turn

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Orcish Bowmasters

zealous ferry
#

[[Dismiss into dreams]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Lmao

#

Yeah

#

The crime-committing engines you have like eater and hex parasite are sick asf tech though

#

I didn’t think of those

zealous ferry
#

[[Deathpits of rath]] are too symmetrical

timber mesaBOT
jovial tinsel
#

[[red death]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Ooh. Yeah

zealous ferry
#

Again, problem is U

sage cloak
#

[[phyrexia portal]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Nope

#

Uhh

#

[[gate to phyrexia]] fits in with the sacrifice theme

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
static spire
sage cloak
#

You’re right, that got pointed out to me later

#

[[perplexing chimera]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Dang!

static spire
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

I’m trying to find any that are like “when a player casts a spell” and targets the spell every time

sage cloak
static spire
timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/135/brasss-tunnel-grinder-tecutlan-the-searing-rift

Brass's Tunnel-Grinder <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Artifact
When Brass's Tunnel-Grinder enters the battlefield, discard any number of cards, then draw that many cards plus one.
At the beginning of your end step, if you descended this turn, put a bore counter on Brass's Tunnel-Grinder. Then if there are three or more bore counters on it, remove those counters and transform it. (You descended if a permanent card was put into your graveyard from anywhere.)

Tecutlan, the Searing Rift
Legendary Land — Cave
(Transforms from Brass's Tunnel-Grinder.)
manat: Add manar.
Whenever you cast a permanent spell using mana produced by Tecutlan, the Searing Rift, discover X, where X is that spell's mana value.

static spire
static spire
static spire
sage cloak
#

Right

sage cloak
zealous ferry
#

[[Defiler of instinct]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
static spire
zealous ferry
#

I didn't see it? When I looked. I may be blind

static spire
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

[[aria of flame]]?

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Pretty similar to Urabrask

jovial tinsel
sage cloak
#

[[bothersome quasit]]

timber mesaBOT
jovial tinsel
sage cloak
#

Ooh. [[chandra dressed to kill]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/vow/149/chandra-dressed-to-kill

Chandra, Dressed to Kill <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Planeswalker — Chandra
+1: Add manar. Chandra, Dressed to Kill deals 1 damage to up to one target player or planeswalker.
+1: Exile the top card of your library. If it's red, you may cast it this turn.
−7: Exile the top five cards of your library. You may cast red spells from among them this turn. You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a red spell, this emblem deals X damage to any target, where X is the amount of mana spent to cast that spell."
Loyalty: 3

sage cloak
#

Pays for itself

static spire
#

I'm happy I get to do the 'ol "did you know Spellskite can target ANY spell" shenanigans

#

from Judge's Tower

sage cloak
#

Yeah spellskite is sweet

zealous ferry
#

[[Barbed servitor]] is the cheapest stuffy doll

timber mesaBOT
static spire
sage cloak
#

lol. [[kaervek the merciless]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

[[mastermind plum]] could be good

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Corrosion]] has the upkeep problem

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/vis/128/corrosion

Corrosion <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397>

Enchantment
Cumulative upkeep mana1 (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a rust counter on each artifact target opponent controls. Then destroy each artifact with mana value less than or equal to the number of rust counters on it. Artifacts destroyed this way can't be regenerated.
When Corrosion leaves the battlefield, remove all rust counters from all permanents.

zealous ferry
#

Lol [[court of locthwain]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/woc/23/court-of-locthwain

Court of Locthwain <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment
When Court of Locthwain enters the battlefield, you become the monarch.
At the beginning of your upkeep, exile the top card of target opponent's library. You may play that card for as long as it remains exiled, and mana of any type can be spent to cast it. If you're the monarch, until end of turn, you may cast a spell from among cards exiled with Court of Locthwain without paying its mana cost.

static spire
#

Okay, here's a different question

#

Whenever possible, I want 0-mana interaction here

#

Beyond the obvious, it means that I can still crime by holding up only one mana

#

I'm currently on Deadly Rollick, Deflecting Swat, Lethal Scheme, and Snuff Out

sage cloak
#

[[fireblast]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Heh

static spire
#

Off the top of my head, theoretically there's also [[Pile On]] and [[Slaughter Pact]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

What else am I missing?

#

I suppose that both [[Fury]] and [[Grief]] are 0-mana

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Ye

static spire
#

and can be reanimated and/or sacrificed 🤔

sage cloak
#

[[mandate of abaddon]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Oh wait dang

#

It’s not exactly like the wording for the white one

#

Thinking of a board wipe you can commit a crime with

static spire
#

[[Fire Covenant]] is the closest I found

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

but that costs a lot of life lol

zealous ferry
#

[[Sorrow's path]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/me3/211/sorrows-path

Sorrow's Path

Land
manat: Choose two target blocking creatures an opponent controls. If each of those creatures could block all creatures that the other is blocking, remove both of them from combat. Each one then blocks all creatures the other was blocking.
Whenever Sorrow's Path becomes tapped, it deals 2 damage to you and each creature you control.

static spire
#

LOL

#

As funny as that is, I cut [[Desert]], which is strictly better for what I need

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

[[arcbound]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/dst/96/arcbound-fiend

Arcbound Fiend <:mana6:292901508780130304>

Artifact Creature — Horror
Fear (This creature can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or black creatures.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may move a +1/+1 counter from target creature onto Arcbound Fiend.
Modular 3 (This creature enters the battlefield with three +1/+1 counters on it. When it dies, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact creature.)
0/0

sage cloak
#

Oops

#

[[arcbond]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

[[arcbond]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Ye

static spire
#

Hm

#

My issue with that card is that it's veeeeeeery hard to control on command

sage cloak
#

[[blight grenade]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Ewwwww UB /s

sage cloak
sage cloak
static spire
sage cloak
#

Isn’t she a 3/3?

static spire
#

I'm realizing that I don't really want many things which are ONLY useful for crime triggers

sage cloak
#

Hmm [[Chandra bold pyro]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

She goes positive 1 mana

static spire
#

"1 mana, draw 1 then mill 1" is not BAD by any means, but it's not something I want to sink all my mana into every turn because it doesn't efficiently push me toward winning

#

I want to make my crime triggers either VERY cheap (0 mana GY hate, etc) or VERY impactful (like Attrition)

#

or on creatures which I can reanimate

#

this COULD be good 🤔

forsakenminer.png
sage cloak
#

[[too greedily too deep]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Reanimate + crime + board wipe

static spire
#

...huh 🤔 intriguing

zealous ferry
#

[[Pit of offerings]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Pyrokinesis]] is like fury

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

[[Street urchin]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Street Urchin is a GREAT idea

#

(now I'm pissy that Marchesa doesn't have deathtouch, she totally could)

static spire
#

I'm already on Bojuka Bog, I don't think I need another (esp since the deck's mana base is already messed up to support the single blue pip in Marchesa's cost)

zealous ferry
#

Yeah

static spire
#

if it came in untapped, though 🤤

zealous ferry
#

Does ward count as a crime?

static spire
zealous ferry
#

Was looking at other backgrounds and saw [[Cultist of the absolute]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

But it doubles her size and gives her flying and deathtouch

#

If ward caused a crime to happen on top of that.

#

But it's a trigger and not an activation

static spire
#

Unfortunately it doesn't 😦 that would be VERY cool alas

zealous ferry
#

I meant to ask you. Teysa

#

Is the new Kambal too combo for her?

#

For reference and apologies for google translate text

Screenshot_20240328_093326_Google.jpg
static spire
zealous ferry
#

Yeah, the first part is cool the second is "I've sneezed and combo"d"

static spire
#

the fact that the second ability says "one or more" keeps it from being actually a primary wincon here, I think

zealous ferry
#

The second isn't once per turn.

static spire
#

the second only triggers once no matter how many tokens though

#

once per batch of tokens

zealous ferry
#

Yes

#

But if a second batch happens, etc.

static spire
#

yeah

#

by "here" I meant "in Teysa"

#

not "in general"

zealous ferry
#

(Re: arm, don't hurt your rotator cuff in your 20s and then have to deal with it in your 40s)

static spire
#

oof

zealous ferry
#

I'm skipping several words 😆

static spire
#

In terms of 0-mana interaction and removal

#

[[Mogg Salvage]]!

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Yeah, that's what I found for not having to sac a mpuntain

static spire
#

Yeah, nearly everything is either "sac a mountain" or "exile a red/black card from hand"

static spire
timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

[[Faerie Macabre]] as well

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Oh, this isn't 0 coat but I've loved it as an option to ditch cards [[bitter triumph]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
zealous ferry
#

Huh... [[argentum masticore]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

I need to remember that for rakdos

static spire
#

Huh, that's... actually pretty good 😂

#

Now I'm looking into curses and other auras

#

[[Trespasser's Curse]]?? [[Curse of Opulence]]??

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

[[Nurgle's Rot]] 🤔

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

[[Curse of Vengeance]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
timber mesaBOT
#

No card found for “into seneschal”

sage cloak
#

Oh cmon

#

[[inti seneschal]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

They’re pretty mid

static spire
#

oh HELL (pun intended) -- [[The Abyss]] / [[Magus of the Abyss]]

timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
#

It's so weird that those target

static spire
#

Seems I may be building ANOTHER deck here 😂

static spire
sage cloak
#

That is hot as fuck

static spire
#

Also, hello new Teysa friend

sage cloak
#

Man they’re PUMPING orzhov tokens

zealous ferry
#

I saw a tweet from a person saying they were never going to be able to finish the thalisse deck they started

sage cloak
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Also, please for the love of god please indulge me by playing [[call of the skybreaker]]

timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
#

Aw dammit

zealous ferry
sage cloak
#

I just read

From your hand

static spire
static spire
#

HAHAHAHAHA

finite heart
#

Monoblack storm is eating good, this should be stupid in Krikk

static spire
#

This is stupid good, no question

#

I think it goes into... ALL my black decks, pretty much

finite heart
#

Do you play many crime decks? cause for me half my black decks dont really do crimes that often, like you got the spotremoval but you dont want a card that just reads "if you destroy a thing do a thing" so unless you have a very high density of crime i wouldnt say so

static spire
finite heart
#

3 mana old teysa?

static spire
#

Yep!

static spire