Hidetsugu and Kairi definitely seem interesting -- if I didn't already have Roalesk and Araumi I might have built them
#Daedalus's Deckbuilding Domain -- Help Appreciated!
static spire
zealous ferry
And it even has an appropriate dominus, with the B one instead of Inquiry
static spire
And it even has an appropriate dominus, with the B one instead of Inquiry
Is that a deck which interests you?
zealous ferry
Indirectly but I think more my husband because Rite of Replication seems to be one of his favorite spells
static spire
Rite of Replication is hilarious in any deck with powerful death triggers on a commander for sure
I love resolving it in Roalesk, 10 counters and 10 proliferate
static spire
Updated the changelog, by the way
To tweak the land base and also fit in The One Ring
glacial cradle
Far, far surpassed the general thread
static spire
Far, far surpassed the general thread
I'm choosing to interpret that fact as "together, we do more deckbuilding here than the rest of this server combined" 😂
knotty shard
I'm choosing to interpret that fact as "together, we do more deckbuilding here t...
in that case, I am looking for advice on a deck idea lol
I want to build a deck with [[Baeloth Barrityl, Entertainer]], but I am having trouble finding a Background I like.
I want it to be:
NOT Black
NOT Raised by Giants
timber mesaBOT
knotty shard
I want to focus more on the second ability than the mass goad thingy
static spire
[[Noble Heritage]] maybe? It lets you grow Baeloth while also allowing opponents to fight each other with big things (and they want to get the counters to un-goad their stuff).
timber mesaBOT
knotty shard
yeah, that's the other "popular" choice, but I dont think it's waht im thinking
static spire
The number of backgrounds is somewhat limited. Do you have a preference for colors?
knotty shard
My kinda core plan is to use cards like Varchild and Varchild's War Raiders to give everyone lots of small tokens, which would be goaded without boosting Baeloth
static spire
I don't see any backgrounds which significantly interface with the second half alas -- unless you pick one of the sac outlet ones and goad your OWN stuff somehow? 🤷♂️
knotty shard
it is possible the background will just end up being for the second color 90% of the time.
static spire
Do you know what second color you do want? It always feels a little disappointing to pick a commander for colors alone — I don’t generally do that — but if we know which color you want it’ll narrow things down.
feral briar
[[scion of Halastar]] is neat card draw fixing + gives access to black but thats about it.
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
[[veteran soldier]] to get some extra tokens on your side?
timber mesaBOT
knotty shard
[[scion of Halastar]] is neat card draw fixing + gives access to black but thats...
got too many BR decks, which is why trying to avoid black
not sure why blue feels like it would be funny if I got it to work
plus a lot of blue spells leave opponents with small creatures like ravenform, pongify, etc..., plus transform effects will make them be coincidentally goaded also
feral briar
Feywild maybe? Also gives extra tokens the rest seem like they won’t do much for you
knotty shard
yeah, maybe
with blue I could also work in synergy with Treasures/artifacts
Urza and friends, Storm the Vault...
zealous ferry
Guessing also not [[Clan Crafter]] because that's the one he came with?
timber mesaBOT
Legendary Enchantment — Background
Commander creatures you own have "
, Sacrifice an artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on this creature and draw a card."
Trained by a dwarven master, you see the potential in every scrap of metal.
feral briar
YOU CAN FLICKER PORTAL TO PHYREXIA WITH ETERNAL WANDERER I DIDNT EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT
that’s all. Im wanderer believer now
zealous ferry
Yep, artifact or creature.
static spire
Guessing also not [[Clan Crafter]] because that's the one he came with?
It’s definitely good with him
knotty shard
I'm not entirely opposed to Clan Crafter
zealous ferry
I'm pretty sure my chat is lagging because the line about artifacts wasn't there originally. And it sounded like you (Nelynes) wanted to get something different than stock.
knotty shard
what was the name of the precon he came in?
zealous ferry
The dragon one... Firkrag. Trying to remember it
knotty shard
kk
zealous ferry
Draconic Dissent was the deck name
knotty shard
yeah, taking a look through, even if I picked Clan Crafter I think my deck would be like 90% different
most of the deck doesnt go into treasures synergies
297 decks for the pair on edh rec meet my "hipster enough" requirement
zealous ferry
Clan crafter is surprisingly unpopular for the blue backgrounds
But it's competing against "can't be blocked" and "draw a card on etb or leave"
knotty shard
I do use Candlekeep Sage, but it's for esper Astral Slide 😛
zealous ferry
That sounds fun!
static spire
Further swaps: remove Ledger Shredder and Tyrant Guard in favor of Bloom Tender and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar.
I want more ramp and draw power, and Ledger Shredder hasn't been behaving correctly for me here -- my playgroup is full of Modern players and they never feed the Shredder.
Shredder is also a little too "generic goodstuff" for me to enjoy in this deck. On the other hand: Tyrant Guard, while powerful, is less good than the counterspells I'm now running.
sage cloak
[[Tyrant guard]]
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
Neat
static spire
[[Ozolith the Shattered Spire]] or [[Hardened Scales]] for Roalesk?
timber mesaBOT
Legendary Artifact
If one or more +1/+1 counters would be put on an artifact or creature you control, that many plus one +1/+1 counters are put on it instead.
, 
: Put a +1/+1 counter on target artifact or creature you control. Activate only as a sorcery.
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
static spire
One mana more, but the cycling is a neat alternate option
I don't have any artifacts which really use +1 counters, but I could MAYBE use the two-mana activated mode with something like [[Incubation Druid]]
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Elf Druid
: Add one mana of any type that a land you control could produce. If Incubation Druid has a +1/+1 counter on it, add three mana of that type instead.
: Adapt 3. (If this creature has no +1/+1 counters on it, put three +1/+1 counters on it.)
0/2
glacial cradle
Why [[Bloom tender]]?
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Elf Druid
: For each color among permanents you control, add one mana of that color.
Beauty is a seed, waiting to blossom under her capable hands.
1/1
glacial cradle
and is [[Glen elendra archmage]] really useful? It seems more... annoying than powerful, but I might be missing stuff
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Faerie Wizard
Flying
, Sacrifice Glen Elendra Archmage: Counter target noncreature spell.
Persist (When this creature dies, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)
2/2
feral briar
One mana more, but the cycling is a neat alternate option
I like scales more. I feel like if you’re in a spot where cycling ozolith is better than casting it you’re probably in a bad spot regardless
static spire
Why [[Bloom tender]]?
Dork taps for two shrug
Could be a potential cut, I did add a LOT of dorks
knotty shard
man, working through this UR Baeloth list.... some interactions are so janky lol
I may play [[all-seeing arbiter]] XD
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Okay, we'll try new Ozolith over Bloom Tender, I suppose
sage cloak
I’d recommend Ozolith instead of scales simply because it’s a new card, but also it enables itself much better
And works with cards like seedborn muse too
Oh wait no it doesn’t ;-; sorcery speed is a stupid limitation
static spire
The new Ozolith card feels moderately nerfed
But sometimes you just want to run EVERY variant of that effect i guess
sage cloak
Oh for sure
static spire
Oh for sure
We're on, what... five cheap copies of that effect?
Hardened Scales, Pir, Benevolent Hydra, Kami of Whispered Hope, New Ozolith
Plus Doubling Season and friends if you go higher in cmc.
rare mango
how many copies do you need?
static spire
how many copies do you need?
🤷♂️ They're always pretty good?
I definitely felt like three was too few (since I run no tutors).
Five may prove to be too many. Six, in practice, since Tekuthal is kinda similar.
The question is which will prove the weakest. Pir (for affecting all counters), Benevolent (for being a cheap way to ADD counters too), and Kami (for the huge amount of mana, and curving into Roalesk really well) definitely feel amazing. The other two sorta fight for diminishing returns. I may cut Hardened Scales eventually in favor of some more card draw of some sort. We'll see!
static spire
...after some more tinkering and testing, and after comparing this current build to the previous one, I think I figured out the problem I was having before.
The problem was that the original build's mana curve was deeply misleading on paper. There were a LOT of low-cmc cards, but most of them were things like clone spells, which would only become useful after I'd cast high-cmc stuff (particularly Roalesk). I was looking at my curve and going "X number of lands is absolutely enough, the curve of this deck matches plenty of other decks where I run fewer lands with no problem, so what's going wrong??" -- when I'd get stuck with 2 or 3 cost spells in hand I didn't want to use when I had only 2 or 3 mana
So once I corrected my perception for that problem, my average CMC jumped WAY way up from the nominal value.
It's not a problem I usually face, since I have no other decks where the gameplan specifically relies on expensive stuff (which is also the reason I usually fail to enjoy Simic)
With this knowledge in hand, I think I like the way this new build functions quite a bit more. We'll see if future revisions are necessary to reduce this problem further?
TLDR: Today I have Learned A Thing ™️ about deckbuilding
It's not only important to measure practical CMC (ie, the amount you actually pay net -- Dockside and Chord are 0-mana spells in my book -- which is critical when storming off), you also have to incorporate the CMC of "precursor" spells in your internal calculations (which is critical when setting up).
This has been late-night deckbuilding rambles with Daedalus.
zealous ferry
That is an interesting way of thinking about it. It makes sense though, that you need to have your mana/ramp match what you need to get to, at minimum, for the wincon keystone
zealous ferry
I shared this with my husband and he says he feels it's more of a competitive mindset. That focusing that much ignores the whole.
static spire
I shared this with my husband and he says he feels it's more of a competitive mi...
How so? Can you expand on what you (and he) mean?
zealous ferry
I unfortunately can't get clarification from him atm but, I think he means that when he builds decks he ramps so he can cast everything.
And not the average cmc or a specific card
And it isn't that his deck doesn't have a plan or a wincon but "why is he putting it in the deck if he can't cast it" applies
static spire
And it isn't that his deck doesn't have a plan or a wincon but "why is he puttin...
Yeah, this is sorta the problem I bumped up against -- I was seeing a lot of cards I SHOULD be able to cast (on paper), but in practice I couldn't cast them because (even though I had the mana) I didn't have the prerequisite board state
zealous ferry
Yeah. He definitely builds towards something I've seen be called "inevitability" though I don't know if he does it intentionally.
His Veyran deck is probably a good example of that https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4ciZ4k8zX0CVIP2RG15Rzw he's aiming for the 6+ drops but the average without lands is 2.93
And he has the expansion/explosion ral combo
But everything is just supposed to work together in most orders rather than needing very specific sequencing (other than combo)
static spire
But everything is just supposed to work together in most orders rather than need...
That's generally my goal, I just hadn't realized that Roalesk violated that general deckbuilding practice
But I'm MUCH happier with the initial tests for the new build!
Also, [[Invasion of Segovia]] is hilarious for decks running countermagic
glacial cradle
I love that they gave the krakens trample
static spire
I love that they gave the krakens trample
It's also RELEVANT in Roalesk, I've already killed someone with tinky krakens on steroids
feral briar
Heavily considering taking Multiversal Mafia and adding green to it 👀…
static spire
Heavily considering taking Multiversal Mafia and adding green to it 👀…
Oooh, which commander?
feral briar
Vishgraz, the Doom Hive
I feel like you could some fun stuff between it, general token stuff, some blink stuff, and walkers
static spire
ooooh~
Well, the Multiversal Mafia has treated me really well overall!
It's one of my oldest decks these days
and I'm never tired of it
feral briar
I need to test ixhel some more still but currently its been feeling pretty underwhelming. Trying to play control in more casual pods, specially when no one else is, doesn’t feel great. Dealing with one board just means another will pull ahead while dwindling my own resources 🤔
feral briar
and I'm never tired of it
That’s basically gyrus for me 😩
But yeah I dig the mafia list a lot and think I could do something similar with Vish even if I’m losing the removal x sacoutlet in the zone
static spire
[[vishgraz]]
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
The triple tokens opens up ashnod altar lines with either [[Eldrazi Displacer]] or [[Nim Deathmantle]]
While its growing body means I have a threat on the command zone that can win through simple beats 👀 it also synergizes a lot better with [[Norns Choirmaster]] than Ixhel imo
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Eldrazi
Devoid (This card has no color.)
: Exile another target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control. ( represents colorless mana.)
3/3
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+2, has intimidate, and is a black Zombie. (A creature with intimidate can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or creatures that share a color with it.)
Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay 
. If you do, return that card to the battlefield and attach Nim Deathmantle to it.
Equip
static spire
Norn's Choirmaster is one of those cards I feel like I SHOULD be able to break somehow
Also, [[Far Traveler]] would do work for you here
timber mesaBOT
static spire
The lack of blocking from the tokens is a BIG problem though
If you want to do similar things to Teysa
feral briar
Also, [[Far Traveler]] would do work for you here
Yup! Thats something else I was considering, probably along with teleportation circle, though I feel like more than that (including displacer) might be too much
feral briar
The lack of blocking from the tokens is a BIG problem though
Yeah thats a big concern, that only the main body can actually protect the walkers
feral briar
@static spire Obviously too many cards, but something like this is more or less what I had in mind. I’ll probably take another wack at it in a month or so depending on how things go for ixhel. I uhh… hadnt noticed how expensive some of the token support is…
static spire
I'll be testing the new Roalesk build at the EDH night tonight, I'll keep tabs on how it goes 🙂
rare mango
Good luck!
static spire
So! We ended up playing Planechase commander, so there's less good data to share.
I got badly messed up by several planes -- in particular, we stopped by the mana doubling plane for everyone's turn except mine, and when we went to Strixhaven they always gave each other demonstrated copies of 6 mana spells for political reasons. With that being said, I still managed to squeak a win with Roalesk, juuuuuust barely, and (ironically) I only won because someone tried to cast Boros Charm in response to a Nev's Disk with Mycosynth out. The new changes are definitely more stable overall, I'm going to keep testing but I'm optimistic.
I lost with Teysa, but Battle for Tolvada is actually really, really, really good in that deck. It kept me in the game by gaining something like 40 extra life over the course of the match. I also enjoyed Defiler of Faith quite a bit, so he's staying for now!
Avacyn continues to be totally absurd, I'm a fan of how the current build plays. Might switch Rule of Law to some kind of protection spell now that we have Phyrexian Censor, because it's honestly easier to protect creatures than enchantments in the list (given Avacyn's abilities).
On a distinct topic, everyone in the club has begun putting [Cards Of Printer-Level Quality] (the forbidden p-word) into their decks... so I no longer feel bad swapping my (real) Gaea's Cradle between decks 😛
So that's going into Wort now 😍 Probably over Dockside for now, because I don't want to INCREASE the level of super fast ramp, but I do want to make fast acceleration more consistent (and I love using Crop Rotation as a massive ramp spell). And with Dockside gone, I can actually test out my masterpiece Cloudstone Curio in a landfall deck without instantly combo-ing off.
rare mango
[[battle for tolvada]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
[[Invasion of Tolvada]], sorry
static spire
So! We ended up playing Planechase commander, so there's less good data to share...
(Upon edits this comment got too long, so it's getting split in half.)
rare mango
Broken sky seems uh broken in that kind of deck 🙂
I might try that in urza actually 🤔
static spire
Broken sky seems uh broken in that kind of deck 🙂
The best part is that the tokens are black-white! So Teysa gets to double dip haha
rare mango
Or wherever my discarded BW token stuff from soundwave ends up
static spire
Initial changes resulting from yesterday's matches:
WORT:
Remove Dockside, Artifact Mutation, Summer Bloom, Khalni Heart Expedition, Kessig Wolf Run (sigh, my poor FRQ)
Add Gaea's Cradle, (newly reskinned) Pair-o-Dice Lost, Deeproot Wayfinder, Into the Fire, Cloudstone Curio.
ROALESK:
Remove Hardened Scales
Add (newly reskinned) Tyrant Guard
AVACYN:
Remove Rule of Law (alas, the OG has simply been out-moded by new ones!)
Add Underworld Breach, or Vanquish the Horde, or Aura of Silence? IDK, still figuring out.
KROXA:
Remove Infernal Sovereign
Add Chains of Mephistopheles
TEYSA:
Remove [to be determined]
Add (newly reskinned) The Golden Throne
static spire
I'm trying to add [[Anger]], some kind of board wipe, and [[Blood for the Blood God]] to Kroxa -- thoughts on cuts? https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wrJxpzO12kqucwccX086QQ
timber mesaBOT
Instant
This spell costs less to cast for each creature that died this turn.
Discard your hand, then draw eight cards. Blood for the Blood God! deals 8 damage to each opponent. Exile Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne.
static spire
Okay...
Adding: Damnation, Blasphemous Act, (newly reskinned) Blood for the Blood God, Wheel of Fortune
Removing: Containment Construct, Asylum Visitor, Words of Waste, Azra Oddsmaker
sturdy gyro
Why not using [[Doomed Necromancer]] or [[Archon of Cruelty]] with Araumi? Those are both great encore targets in my deck.
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Human Cleric Mercenary
, , Sacrifice Doomed Necromancer: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Many necromancers share the same last words—the ones that conclude the undeath ritual.
2/2
static spire
Why not using [[Doomed Necromancer]] or [[Archon of Cruelty]] with Araumi? Those...
Archon was too much mana in practice -- I cut all the high-cost encore targets because I was just winning before they ever became relevant. Doomed Necromancer is definitely a great card, but slots are tight... is there anything specific you'd cut?
neon shore
It's also target opponent instead of each
static spire
I finally got around to finishing a first draft of that convoke/background deck I was messing with a week or so ago -- any thoughts?
This is intentionally meant to be relatively budget, LOWER power, and as "fair" as possible
I want to be able to pilot this against precons or moderately improved precons
static spire
...okay so that plan lasted about four minutes
but still, help me figure out this 'full power' version, then maybe I'll downgrade 😂
The play pattern I'm really enjoying is to get out some form of convoke-granting effect (there's 3 in the deck) then chain X-costed token makers into each other
glacial cradle
Lol
static spire
Okay, I still need two cuts
Any thoughts? I'm gonna set it down for a while then come back
static spire
After testing them in this new deck, I strongly believe I need [[The Golden Throne]] and/or [[Wand of the Worldsoul]] in Teysa
timber mesaBOT
Legendary Artifact
Arcane Life-support — If you would lose the game, instead exile The Golden Throne and your life total becomes 1.
A Thousand Souls Die Every Day — , Sacrifice a creature: Add three mana in any combination of colors.
Artifact
Wand of the Worldsoul enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add 
.
: The next spell you cast this turn has convoke.
"May Mat'Selesyna bind our hearts as one." —Selesnya prayer
static spire
I'll think on those cuts in the morning 😅 https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3Vm_imDyY0ic0T-O14lbdw
feral briar
The golden throne is pretty solid.
Throne early game can at least mostly refund its cost if you already have something out for it to eat, and after is just a cheaper gilded lotus that also procs LTB triggers + saves you once from losing.
Wand seems a bit weaker early but giving anything convoke I think more than makes up for it later on.
static spire
The golden throne is pretty solid.
Throne early game can at least mostly refun...
I'm going to tentatively try Golden Throne over [[Chivalric Alliance]] -- Alliance is a better card, but it allows me to go infinite and I'm explicitly trying to avoid that. We'll see if I reverse the swap later 🙂
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment
Whenever you attack with two or more creatures, draw a card.
, Discard a card: Create a 2/2 white and blue Knight creature token with vigilance.
"I dub thee Syr Hellraker. For now."
static spire
Had a chance to play four back-to-back Kroxa games today
Apart from one where I lost instantly to the first player's T1 Workshop + Trinisphere, I won two others and nearly won a third.
High points: Waste Not remains a complete mistake, Invasion of Kaldheim is honestly spectacular in the list, The One Ring is SUPER strong (albeit risky), and no matter how much I try to make my (reskinned) Blood for the Blood God work it's still a terrible card 😦
glacial cradle
Mmm, still trying to figure out what to do with this Kroxa I opened in MOM.
static spire
Obviously come join me on the Kroxa commander train!
glacial cradle
It's such a sweet card but it needs a very particular deck and it's not the kind of deck I tend to build.
glacial cradle
Discard treads close to the feelsbad end of strategies that I'm wary of
Mmmm, I could try and make a budget brew for it. That'd be neat.
static spire
Also, while this is a tomorrow problem, I need to find a slot in Avacyn for Slicer
Now that I've made a reskinned version! (See #custom-cards )
glacial cradle
Yeah! I think that's your sweetest reskin yet for the record.
static spire
Yeah! I think that's your sweetest reskin yet for the record.
Ah, thank you! I'd probably rank it second or third overall
glacial cradle
Great flavor, fitting for the mechanics, awesome work.
static spire
This is probably my favorite overall, I just LOVE the elegant integration of mechanics, flavor, and art
(I'm not praising myself here, my fiancé came up with most of this one)
glacial cradle
That's also pretty sweet. It's cool seeing the different challenges of the wacky cards they've made lately.
Like, pair of dice doesn't... Have easy to work with flavor
static spire
Trying to reskin some of these drives me to madness 😂
static spire
Like, pair of dice doesn't... Have easy to work with flavor
yeah I really have to work HARD on some recent cards
glacial cradle
You've also reminded me how much I hate that some wild copyright law prevented them from having Transformers... You know... Transform.
static spire
Me, to copyright laws:
I've nearly reskinned every card I want from Universes Beyond / Unfinity
Except for [[Saw in Half]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Truthfully, I could keep the name identical, and even keep the flavor text (I don't think I can top that pun)
It's a cleverly designed card
But man, I want to find a Rakdos themed art and flavor for this
glacial cradle
Honestly it does seem like something straight out of Rakdos or Innistrad. Particularly older sets, when they were more willing to be gruesome with it.
static spire
Random Zombie Clown is so ugly
static spire
Honestly it does seem like something straight out of Rakdos or Innistrad. Partic...
If I could keep everything except the art, and swap the art to be Rakdos-esque, I'd be happy
glacial cradle
That reminds me that I really need to find a bunch of art for my custom card project. That's not gonna be fun.
static spire
That reminds me that I really need to find a bunch of art for my custom card pro...
yeah, it's the first (and usually hardest) step
flavor text is VERY hard too, though
if you want the final product to feel cohesive
glacial cradle
Mmm, fair
neon shore
If you’re willing to go Grixis, Saw in Half goes infinite with Cormela.
rare mango
Daedalus canonically prefers 2 color decks 🙂
feral briar
@static spire any plans to try Arch 👼 Elspeth?
static spire
<@254711002904526848> any plans to try Arch 👼 Elspeth?
She's currently in my Teysa list! She's solid enough, not amazing but not awful
static spire
I had a chance to play some more games yesterday to test the recent sets of changes. A few minor conclusions:
- Invasion of Gobakhan is amazing, and I need to add it to more decks, honestly.
- Teysa suffers against Night of Soul's Betrayal effects, I might add more non-creature removal. The Angel-Blood Altar (ie, The Golden Throne) was... fine? Not amazing, but solid enough.
- Mirari Awoken (ie, The One Ring) is really, really absurd in... a lot of decks? It's won me pretty much every game where I drew it, and also made things more exciting by draining my life total very fast.
- My attempts to make Alesha Earns Her Name (ie, Blood for the Blood God) work in Kroxa are doomed to failure.
- Traxos, Awoken Furnace (ie, Slicer) is hilarious in Avacyn, I got a Sword of Fire and Ice onto him and went to town.
zealous ferry
I've tried to convince more people to try Gobakhan because it really was playing that well for me too
feral briar
I like how you refer to your alt arts by the name you gave them and then use the correct name on the side 😭
rare mango
[[invasion of Gobakhan]]
timber mesaBOT
Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of Gobakhan enters the battlefield, look at target opponent's hand. You may exile a nonland card from it. For as long as that card remains exiled, its owner may play it. A spell cast this way costs more to cast.
Defense: 3
Lightshield Array
Enchantment
At the beginning of your end step, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature that attacked this turn.
Sacrifice Lightshield Array: Creatures you control gain hexproof and indestructible until end of turn.
The weight of Phyrexia crashed down upon Gobakhan, but the will of its people endured.
static spire
I've tried to convince more people to try Gobakhan because it really was playing...
Yeah, it -- along with Segovia -- are the only two Battles I consider primarily usable for the back side
static spire
I like how you refer to your alt arts by the name you gave them and then use the...
It's basically what I did in-game too. "I cast Traxos, Awakened Inferno -- you know, reskinned Slicer -- and attack with the giant dragon-mech"
feral briar
Im kinda curious about the gob invasion, but i kinda dunno how much I’ll get from the backside. Considering Toldova pretty hard though
static spire
Over the course of a Roalesk game, I drew 25 cards with The One Ring and lost 18 life (worth it)
feral briar
My real issue with the invasions, particularly in Ixhel, is that the creature im most likely to have is ixhel and she wants to hit players at least until they’re all corrupted
Uh wow thats a better rate than black usually gets
static spire
Im kinda curious about the gob invasion, but i kinda dunno how much I’ll get fro...
Tolvada is definitely amazing in Teysa. I'm not sure how often I'd suggest it to the average deck? But it's been consistently a huge positive swing for my deck specifically: I gained 60 life off it in a game
feral briar
Oh im also thinking about invasion of Ikora for the recurrable tutor that turns into a finisher
static spire
Oh im also thinking about invasion of Ikora for the recurrable tutor that turns ...
Invasion of Ikoria is probably the generically 'strongest' one, but the non-human clause made it hard for me to run
Kaldheim is absurd as well, as I've said a few times -- I used Invasion of Kaldheim to draw 40 cards recently
feral briar
Kaldheim im very likely to try in Gyrus. Swapping for a new hand than then being able to pitch lands for damage and draw? When I’m already on Life from the loam? Its more likely than you think
zealous ferry
Segovia is frustrating because it's warping how I'm looking at some of my decks.
rare mango
I had a great time with invasion of Ikoria in sealed. Pay 7, fetch skittles is real good turns out 🤣
static spire
Segovia is frustrating because it's warping how I'm looking at some of my decks.
How so?
static spire
Kaldheim im very likely to try in Gyrus. Swapping for a new hand than then being...
I keep being disappointed by the back side, but the front is sincerely playable alone.
I want to find an excuse to run both Life from the Loam and Invasion of Kaldheim in Wort.
feral briar
I feel like you dont need an excuse 👀green has so many tools for recursion that milling a couple of cards shouldnt be too bad in exchange of guaranteeing land drops or more (exploration/burgeoming) and there’s a good couple of good R cards in addition to kaldheim itself that let you get value out of the excess lands in hand 👀
static spire
I feel like you dont need an excuse 👀green has so many tools for recursion that...
The difficulty is more in finding cuts. What two things would you cut here?
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/tAfa8BYilU2tot1R3QfxnA
I can't cut Deeproot Wayfinder, that's a stand-in for... well, I can't talk about leaked cards here
But a certain card from Aftermath is taking that slot
feral briar
A fellow orcish lumberjack enjoyer pog
feral briar
The difficulty is more in finding cuts. What two things would you cut here?
http...
Oh man this looks pretty tight. Uuuuh I might go with like Hour of Promise and Sudden Reclamation.
You already have a lot of land search tutors and this one seems like the most expensive and worst of them.
Sudden Reclamation is basically a “”better”” lftl and can probably go pretty hard with the landfall cards, but I feel like I’d prefer the general consistency and utility of LFTL over it. I’d normally say running both is neat, but I do think you might get more value out of lft and since you can copy it I feel like there will be less chances for reclamation to be good if you draw it second.
static spire
Sudden Reclamation?
feral briar
Yuh
static spire
I'm not running [[Sudden Reclamation]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
...that feels like a risky plan, Splendid is one of the best cards in the whole list in my experience
I'll think on it, it's definitely a very tight list at this point
feral briar
Yeah, I just dunno how itd feel when you can already joink six lands at once with lftl.
Could maybe hit one of the expensive draw spells instead since Kalheim is only 4 mana, but you cant copy it with Worty
static spire
Yeah, I just dunno how itd feel when you can already joink six lands at once wit...
Lands going to hand is a very different thing than lands going straight to battlefield IME
Could definitely cut Return of the Wildspeaker I suppose
I've really really liked Valakut Awakening / Into the Fire in testing, though.
Don't want to cut those two.
Suppose I could cut [[Valakut Exploration]], it's never QUITE as good as I want it to be
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
Copied lftl into copied Valakut awakening 👀
static spire
Copied lftl into copied Valakut awakening 👀
the spice
feral briar
Well copying awakening wouldn’t necessarily do much but
static spire
Copying Awakening absolutely does a lot
feral briar
Ob yeah jt would
static spire
It's essentially going back to the Partial Paris mulligan
feral briar
You pick what cards to put back its not all
zealous ferry
How so?
So like, [[Elsha]]. It doesn't have a lot of creatures, understandably, but, even if it's just her or one or two of the 5 in the deck, it's still squeezing out little bits of mana
timber mesaBOT
static spire
"Put 6 on bottom, draw 7, pick my favorite 3 to keep, put 4 on bottom, draw 5" is a NASTY line
zealous ferry
[[Elsha of the Infinite]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
So like, [[Elsha]]. It doesn't have a lot of creatures, understandably, but, eve...
How is it warping your whole gameplan, I mean? Do you feel obligated to run more creatures to support it?
feral briar
"Put 6 on bottom, draw 7, pick my favorite 3 to keep, put 4 on bottom, draw 5" i...
Yeah i forgot that part 🤭 jesus
zealous ferry
Or at least thinking about more token generators.
feral briar
From 1 card (lftl) to 8 and are the best of the original 7 so you see up to 15 cards while refueling your land tutors
static spire
I think for now I'll cut Tireless Tracker, and... something
Maybe Far Wanderings? I haven't been able to hit Threshold as often as I want to, honestly
feral briar
Tireless could be good too, depends on how much you can actually draw off of the tokens
That seems good as well, if you aren’t hitting thresh thats kinda subpar at 3 mana
zealous ferry
I say warping because there were cards that suddenly have some more value. It's changing my weights.
static spire
I say warping because there were cards that suddenly have some more value. It's ...
Yeah, the biggest example of that in my decks recently was [[Tainted Observer]] / [[Blade of Shared Souls]] in Roalesk
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Phyrexian Bird
Flying
Toxic 1 (Players dealt combat damage by this creature also get a poison counter.)
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may pay . If you do, proliferate. (Choose any number of permanents and/or players, then give each another counter of each kind already there.)
2/3
Artifact — Equipment
For Mirrodin! (When this Equipment enters the battlefield, create a 2/2 red Rebel creature token, then attach this to it.)
Whenever Blade of Shared Souls becomes attached to a creature, for as long as Blade of Shared Souls remains attached to it, you may have that creature become a copy of another target creature you control.
Equip
static spire
Suddenly my proliferate deck needs to add a HUGE token subtheme
Just to work correctly with these two powerhouses
zealous ferry
nod
static spire
Or Elesh and blink in Avacyn
Or...
You know, that's interesting
I never really considered, but
The last few sets have printed SUCH powerful enablers for secondary strategies that nearly all my decks have picked one up
feral briar
God, MOM has been devastating for me. I didn’t expect a single set to have so much stuff I wanted to test
static spire
Most successful subtheme, you mean? Probably Avacyn's blink focus, yeah. It completely warped the deck.
Invasion of Segovia has cemented Roalesk's secondary token focus, though.
feral briar
What was avacyn’s theme before blink anyways?
Also why is slicer apparently so good? Cant people just smack you with it ala Karona?
static spire
Also why is slicer apparently so good? Cant people just smack you with it ala Ka...
It becomes goaded, so they have to hit an opponent
static spire
What was avacyn’s theme before blink anyways?
Before blink, it was a hybrid voltron-hatebears deck. Now it's a hybrid voltron-hatebears-BLINK deck 😉
It didn't really LOSE anything, but gained a lot from the change.
feral briar
[[slicer]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
I cut mostly enablers for the voltron strategy -- Akiri, Halvar, etc -- in favor of more blink support. The blink support lets me tutor more stuff to hand, though, which enables the other two strategies more effectively than stuff like Halvar did
[[slicer high speed]]
timber mesaBOT
Legendary Artifact Creature — Robot
More Than Meets the Eye 
(You may cast this card converted for .)
Double strike, haste
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, you may have that player gain control of Slicer until end of turn. If you do, untap Slicer, goad it, and it can't be sacrificed this turn. If you don't, convert it.
3/4
Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist
Legendary Artifact — Vehicle
Living metal (As long as it's your turn, this Vehicle is also a creature.)
First strike, haste
Whenever Slicer deals combat damage to a player, convert it at end of combat.
3/2
feral briar
Ooooh. It got played semi wrong against me. We never returned it to the owner/og player so I didnt understand why no one was swinging it back at them lmao
static spire
it goes back to the original player at end step anyway
feral briar
Yeh we didn’t do that. I thought whoever controlled it previously was keeping it and deciding to pass it forward and goad it
static spire
Yeh we didn’t do that. I thought whoever controlled it previously was keeping it...
Probably would have been a cooler design that way 😂
feral briar
Probably in that case 😂
feral briar
@static spire you only have, by my count, 7 etb creatures w/ most of them being tutors. Has that really been enough to justify the 3 or so blink cards? I feel like the answer is yes because like tutors and indestructible on demand is solid af, but still
Avacyn list btw
static spire
<@254711002904526848> you only have, by my count, 7 etb creatures w/ most of the...
I'd say yes? I have four sources of 'true' blink (Ephemerate, Cloudshift, Eldrazi Displacer, Sword of Hearth and Home) and one weaker source (Aerial Extortionist targeting my own stuff).
In terms of permanents with ETB effects, I have 7 creatures (plus my commander) and 3 other permanents. Reusing a tutor is one of the best things I can do with a blink effect, we adore the card advantage.
It's been enough in practice, doubly because Stoneforge tutors for Hearth & Home on her ETB then tutors for more stuff afterward. I can also use the blink effects to reset Avacyn to her front face, or to get indestructibility again.
feral briar
Yeah i think your commander being a blink target is already a huge upside
static spire
She's a blink target, but she's not a blink effect where doubling the trigger does anything -- so alas, Elesh Norn doesn't synergize with her innate blink effect 😦
I've also been running [[Terror of the Peaks]] until recently, and he's been good as well.
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
What about archon of emeria? Are you playing against any particular strat or has it just been generically good? I’ve felt pretty unimpressed with it at my lgs since I feel it slow down my opponents enough compared to how much it hurts me 🤔
Well, Elesh has the upside of not needing to double your triggers to be good :P
static spire
Archon is massively good in my experience
Locking down spellcasting is critical, given that my deck survives REALLY well under ROL effects (moving equipment lets me sink mana rather than waste it, plus I run a lot of instants and things with flash including my commander, and I'm happy to just beat people to death)
Blink also gives me a lot of value even when I can't cast additional spells (another reason that blink effects are good)
Forcing nonbasic lands to enter tapped is also fantastic -- it crushes fetches and makes my Winter Orb much more oppressive
Plus Archon has flying when it needs to carry a sword!
feral briar
Hmm okay that makes sense (also i hadnt see the wOrb lol)
static spire
Static Orb, too!
feral briar
I’m relying a lot more on static and sorc speed effects to keep the board in check unless I joink stuff from my opponents so it feels like I need to do more than one thing per turn
static spire
What deck are you trying to play Archon in?
It's definitely not a card you can just jam into a random list and expect it to work well
feral briar
The walkers help a lot but still feels like I play worse with it in play
Ixhel, Junk Control
static spire
The walkers help a lot but still feels like I play worse with it in play
Ixhe...
Your deck will always function a little worse under Archon. The trick is ensuring that your opponents' decks function FAR worse 😉
feral briar
Your deck will always function a little worse under Archon. The trick is ensurin...
Oh yeah. Just hasn’t felt the case so far 
it would have been great on Tuesday since there were two Marwyn decks but often its been people who just cast one or two spells a turn anyways. I may retry it again at some point since there are some spellslinger/cascade decks running around but dunno 🤔 most players seemingly have like six decks so im coming in each week pretty blind
static spire
(Reminder to self: Wort added Invasion of Kaldheim, Life from the Loam, Shatterskull Smashing, and [REDACTED], and cut Deeproot Wayfinder, Far Wanderings, Thespian Stage, and Seasons Past
feral briar
Nooo seasons past 😔
static spire
Nooo seasons past 😔
I recently added Genetic Memory (ie, Pair of Dice Lost), which kinda does the job better 😅
Since it automatically grabs back every land, so I can pitch 'em to Pyre of the World Tree
feral briar
[[generic memory]] (ie [[pair of dice]])
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
Ooooh thats pretty good. And its instant speed 🤔
static spire
feral briar
@static spire any reason for no battle angels in avacyn?
static spire
<@254711002904526848> any reason for no battle angels in avacyn?
[[Battle Angels of Tyr]]?
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
ye
static spire
I just don't think the card is very good 🤷♂️
I mean, it's not BAD to be clear
But it doesn't serve my goals here
(Also, I often have the most cards AND life AND lands once I get rolling, but that's secondary)
I think that Battle Angels is a low-key overrated card. Even beyond that, in this deck, Battle Angels doesn't serve the stax, voltron, OR blink plans. It's dead for my main strategies, and doesn't provide enough value to just earn the slot on pure power levels.
(It has been in and out of Teysa, though, since I can sacrifice the extra tokens after they hit.)
It fits in White's "if I'm behind I try and catch up" space, but that space doesn't really WORK well for Avacyn -- not least because stax locks down a lot of the ways other people get ahead. I don't run any white "catch up" cards, excluding Land Tax (which is leagues above the others).
Put another way, Avacyn is a VERY aggressive deck. I don't play the "catch up if I'm behind" cards -- Avacyn's philosophical motto can be summarized as the following 😂
feral briar
Okay, yeah that makes a lot of sense
static spire
I had a chance to test the new Wort build a bit.
I'm indecisive on whether Life from the Loam fully earns its slot, it's a little dead on its own...
But Invasion of Kaldheim's back side is lethal with stuff like [[Pair o' Dice Lost]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
And the front side is pretty fantastic as well.
I am also adoring [[Valakut Awakening]] / [[Into the Fire]] in the deck.
timber mesaBOT
Instant
Put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your library, then draw that many cards plus one.
"My ancestors reshaped the world to their vision. I have a few ideas of my own." —Tars Olan, stoneforge mystic
Valakut Stoneforge
Land
Valakut Stoneforge enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add .
"I can hear the echo of their hammers, long stilled." —Tars Olan, stoneforge mystic
static spire
Putting stuff like Cavalier of Flames on bottom (to be tutored later) is honestly a great way to balance the curve issues I've encountered in that deck, and it's amazing to copy those "mid-game mulligan" spells and reshuffle my hand while keeping what I like best.
The new [REDACTED] from Aftermath is also amazing and I'm so happy to have another copy of that effect.
Tireless Tracker remains the problem child for Wort: I keep cutting it, then instantly regret when I no longer have a green creature I can tutor to refill my hand
It's so mediocre... but there's not a BETTER option for green, land-related draw
I also picked up an [[Invasion of Ikoria]] recently, and I'm vaguely considering testing it out?
static spire
It irks me that I can't copy it with Wort, but maybe it's worth it as another pure tutor...
I'm also considering [[Invasion of Ergamon]]!
static spire
The front side is just generally solid. And IF I can flip it, I can tutor Cradle/Valakut pretty easily. On the other hand, I could just run [[Sylvan Scrying]] if I want a way to get those lands into hand and skip the damage 🤔
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
I feel like you can just skip it. UR for a ritual and conditional draw is decent enough, but if what you really care about is the land fetch then just 1G while being able to keep hitting your opps seems better
static spire
I got to play my new Esior / Prava token-convoke-background-battles deck for the first time today
Initial conclusions:
- I would have absolutely lost the game IF my opponents had been skilled enough to pilot their own decks correctly.
- Veteran Soldier isn't QUITE as good as I'd been thinking, but it's still pretty great. Same for several other backgrounds.
- I need more interaction. Desperately need more interaction to remove things that stymie combat. Especially ways to wipe the board.
- Deck is very punchy and casual, I think it could be a good addition to my decks on the lower end of the power spectrum.
- The deck has some fun play patterns, but it's not quite... cohesive yet. It needs a LOT of refinement, and the first step is figuring out what I want to do.
static spire
I encountered one problem specifically: Veteran Soldier requires my commander(s) to attack.
And creates the tokens tapped and attacking -- usually they'd die, but Prava gives +4 toughness, so they'll usually live.
Except, Prava isn't THAT big herself, so she'll often die in combat (and then the tokens will die once her boost disappears)
rare mango
[[veteran soldier]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Eh, I'll come back once I've taken some time to think, but I need to find some cuts here: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/hWhVNLFspEephYZjIoADSQ
static spire
@ocean tree -- continuing here so we don't clog up poor Ferret's thread. Avacyn is built like a cEDH deck, but it's a bit too midrange-y to really survive in the current meta unless there's other stax decks sitting down.
My actual cEDH stax decks are here:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/1i1MiqHaG02oBWsFfh7Vow
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/oMX-AtE6ykayd98MqtpOzw
static spire
I'm purely and solely interested in jank
If it's on the cEDH database I don't want to build it 😂
static spire
I've got something like a 65% winrate with Hapatra in cEDH pods, people just... don't quite know how to interact with it. It exists on a rather different axis
zealous ferry
Hapatra is frustrating, partially because of that
static spire
Hapatra is frustrating, partially because of that
Hm? What do you mean?
Also! I got to play seven back-to-back games last night at my university's EDH night -- won four, lost three. Definitely some good data to be drawn from the experience:
-
My recent changes to Kroxa were (broadly speaking) a mistake. Some individual cards there were good (The One Ring, etc), but the top-level direction I went was all wrong. Too many cards are dead too often. I'm going to make another sweeping round of changes there soon, stay tuned. I won both Kroxa games I played, but they both were flukes where I won T3 off VERY lucky top-decks.
-
There is now a turbo-fog Progenitus deck in my meta (I can see Carson's ears prick up!), and several of my decks just DIE to Fog effects -- even beyond preventing me from winning via combat, it messes up my sequencing. Even Avacyn tends to suffer pretty badly on that front, since she relies reasonably heavily on combat damage triggers. Not sure how to patch this, or even if I should (given how it'll dilute my main focuses).
-
Wort really needs more ways to recur Cradle, it's becoming a consistent problem when it gets blown up. Wort also needs more removal and interaction in general. In parallel to bullet point 2, I also want to see if there's any non-combat ways to win in a pinch: Valakut CAN work, but I eventually run out of Mountains. I've been forced to resort to Dryad of the Ilysian Grove + Awaken the Woods + Valakut as a kill line several times, but it is clunky as heck. I've also been considering Warp World as a way to re-use my landfall triggers, but it might be win-more??
-
I might need more anti-artifact stax/hate in several decks, there's a Karn deck that keeps kicking me with things like T1 Workshop --> Trinisphere. Or T1 Chalice on 1, which just kills Avacyn in particular.
glacial cradle
There's a few 'damage can't be prevented' effects that are pretty solid inclusions.
static spire
There's a few 'damage can't be prevented' effects that are pretty solid inclusio...
Got any suggestions? The problem is that there's only a single deck which runs those effects, so I'd want any anti-prevention cards to pull double duty.
I could also just run Grand Abolisher (or Myrel) and get the same result.
zealous ferry
Hm? What do you mean?
When other players don't know how to interact with a deck threat assessment gets even worse
glacial cradle
Questing Beast in green, as you said Myrel and Grand are good for this, Bone crusher and Insult to Injury
static spire
I also suppose I could run [[Conqueror's Flail]] in Avacyn since it's tutorable.
timber mesaBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each color among permanents you control.
As long as Conqueror's Flail is attached to a creature, your opponents can't cast spells during your turn.
Equip
static spire
This was the outcome of the games in a little more depth.
This also made me wonder whether I should run Ragavan in Avacyn?
I do have an extra Ragavan sitting around 🤔 But then I'd need cuts.
feral briar
Bonk
glacial cradle
Ragavan is a very solid card
static spire
Ragavan is a very solid card
The Dash is also very relevant after a board wipe. Dash, equip things, hit people.
static spire
> Bonk
So I have three cards I want to try and fit into Avacyn: Ragavan, Surge of Salvation, and Conqueror's Flail.
Ragavan can probably replace a land since he's essentially a red Llanowar Elves.
But what about the other two cuts?
Help 😭
glacial cradle
How often are Basilisks collar and Unezawas jitte relevant
Also, how's invasion of Gobakhan been treating you?
knotty shard
Collar is kinda nuts when avacyn flips
static spire
How often are Basilisks collar and Unezawas jitte relevant
Frequently! Basilisk Collar lets me turn Avacyn into a flat board-wipe which often gains me 45+ life, and Jitte is just really handy as removal (or occasionally to pump things into a 1-hit kill).
Invasion of Gobakhan has been very solid! Information and taxes on the front side, anthem and powerful protection on the back. I'm pretty much never sad to see it.
I was thinking about cutting Sword of Forge and Frontier, though.
knotty shard
Invasion of Gobakhan has ranged for me between great and "cracked in half" depending on the deck
static spire
Sword of Forge and Frontier has been less relevant than I hoped 😦
glacial cradle
How about [[Komainu Battle Armor]]?
timber mesaBOT
Artifact Creature — Equipment Dog
Menace
Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and has menace.
Whenever Komainu Battle Armor or equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, goad each creature that player controls.
Reconfigure (: Attach to target creature you control; or unattach from a creature. Reconfigure only as a sorcery. While attached, this isn't a creature.)
2/2
static spire
The "use it or lose it" nature of the card advantage is ROUGH in a ROL-centric deck.
static spire
How about [[Komainu Battle Armor]]?
That's currently in the sideboard, it's very amusing but somewhat conditional.
glacial cradle
Forge and Frontier does seems like a pretty solid cut
Oops, missed the sideboard label lol
static spire
I could possibly cut Akroma's Will for Surge of Salvation?
...Akroma's Will is legitimately crazy though.
Weirdly, I could cut Commander's Plate.
It's never QUITE as good as I expect it to be.
I'll come back to messing with this, I'm currently at 103 cards.
Decided that I also want Mindcensor and possibly Aura of Silence back in
To deal with that pesky Karn deck
I could cut Fiery Emancipation again, it's always the card I initially cut then want to stick back in 😂
glacial cradle
What does Eldrazi Displacer do for the deck?
static spire
What does Eldrazi Displacer do for the deck?
Flips Avacyn to her front side repeatedly, allows me to blink her in response to removal or her own board wipe, allows me to reuse Recruiters, Dockside, Solitude, etc. It's very solid in my experience
also lets me remove blockers
if necessary
Okay, changes for now (I lied about going away to do actual academic work):
ADD: Mindcensor, Surge of Salvation, Conqueror's Flail, Ragavan
CUT: Sokenzan, Sword of Forge and Frontier, Vanquish the Horde, Fiery Emancipation
I'm definitely going to mess with some of these changes later, but I think it's a solid start.
glacial cradle
Well, I hope I helped in some small way
static spire
Well, I hope I helped in some small way
you did for sure!
glacial cradle
Maybe I'll start a thread like this, mostly just to encourage myself to log my thought process more. I do a lot of deck fiddling.
static spire
Maybe I'll start a thread like this, mostly just to encourage myself to log my t...
Yeah, I like chatting through my ideas here! It's also very nice to have a record when I want to go back and figure out WHY I did something.
Speaking of which!
I currently have six open slots in Kroxa.
Which 6 cards would you add? Either from the sideboard, or additional suggestions.
static spire
Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion
Dark Confidant
Sheoldred / The True Scriptures
Unmarked Grave
Dragon's Rage Channeler
Cabal Ritual
I'm tentatively thinking these six for the inclusions? I also want to maybe find a slot for [[Tasigur's Cruelty]]
timber mesaBOT
Sorcery
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for .)
Each opponent discards two cards.
The cruelest tortures leave no mark upon the flesh.
feral briar
I like the first six inclusions. But tasigurs cruelty feels a bit meh? Its fine for 1 mana but dunno about relying on the delve. Wouldn’t maybe some of the discard Lilianas be better if you dont already have them?
Forgot to press send lmao
Oh the list was right there. Yeah I think id do something like [[liliana waker]] instead of the cruelty
timber mesaBOT
static spire
I like the first six inclusions. But tasigurs cruelty feels a bit meh? Its fine ...
I don't have any ability to protect planeswalkers unfortunately, though... 🤔 Otherwise I'd run them as continuous value.
knotty shard
Bob seems bad
Would rather have black market connections or even PArena if the goal is +1 card in upkeep
static spire
Bob seems bad
Hm, how so?
static spire
Would rather have black market connections or even PArena if the goal is +1 card...
I also have Black Market Connections lol
knotty shard
Also why is worldgorger and dockside set to 0 mana
I see the why on the rest
Your average MV is closer to 2 without your discounts, seems high for Bob even at 8/10
static spire
Also why is worldgorger and dockside set to 0 mana
I tend to set cards to zero in display if they can only be reanimated (ie, will never be cast) for better analysis of practical mana spent
Or, in Dockside's case, if he's always mana-positive 😛
static spire
Would rather have black market connections or even PArena if the goal is +1 card...
The goal is ways to keep my hand full in general without giving advantage to opponents -- do you have a better suggestion to replace Bob in that vein?
knotty shard
Do you need actual cards? Does impulsive draw not work for this deck
Because Jeskas Will and such
static spire
Do you need actual cards? Does impulsive draw not work for this deck
It doesn't work as well, since I tend to be pretty mana-constrained outside of combo turns, but if you've got powerful impulse draw I'm game
static spire
Because Jeskas Will and such
I tested J-Will here and it, uh
it sucked
For three reasons
First, I don't consistently have my commander on the battlefield
Second, I can't sink red very well at ALL, the deck is very, very heavy on black devotion
Third, casting it for purely impulse-3 almost never let me cast the cards in practice
Because I rarely have 6+ mana available (again, outside of combo turns)
knotty shard
Do you not like the draw 2 for 2 black spells?
static spire
Do you not like the draw 2 for 2 black spells?
shrug I'm not hugely hype on them? I prefer to have continuous sources of draw to continue giving gas if turns stretch long
knotty shard
What's the average critical turn for a 8/10 deck in your meta
static spire
What's the average critical turn for a 8/10 deck in your meta
Tricky question for Kroxa in particular. I want to either win or shred everyone's hand (often including my own) by T4 or so
knotty shard
Yeah so Bob on 2, you will be at turn 5 before you net positive on your 2-for-2 spells
static spire
A lot of the best discard effects are symmetric, though. So it's important for me to actually have a way to rebuild my own hand after I cast something like Mind Rake.
static spire
Yeah so Bob on 2, you will be at turn 5 before you net positive on your 2-for-2 ...
I'm not actually bugged by that, my Kroxa games either 1) end on T3 on a super fast hand, or 2) stretch to T10-12 with everyone topdecking
Kroxa can be grindy if the combo doesn't pop up
knotty shard
Ok so t12
Bob on 2 will be 10 cards for 20 life.
PArena on 3 will be 9 cards for 9 life
And do you want to take T2 off to Bob over kroxa?
static spire
And do you want to take T2 off to Bob over kroxa?
I often don't cast Kroxa T2, but I'll concede that I have a LOT of things I'd rather do on T2 than Bob: Chains, Waste Not, various tutors, etc
You've convince me that Bob probably isn't worth it here
What would you add instead?
From the sideboard or in general
The "default" option is probably Anje's Ravager
knotty shard
Looking a bit
static spire
But that card has caused me occasional problems by discarding stuff like Breach or Citadel one turn before casting it would win me the game 😂
knotty shard
I have not been impressed by Containment Construct in my discard decks
static spire
I have not been impressed by Containment Construct in my discard decks
Likewise, I cut it for that reason
I expected it to be so good!
It was not
I expected [[Asylum Visitor]] to be good as well, but it really was not
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Vampire Wizard
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player has no cards in hand, you draw a card and you lose 1 life.
Madness (If you discard this card, discard it into exile. When you do, cast it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard.)
"The ravings of the mad are laced with eldritch knowledge."
3/1
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Or even [[Necrogoyf]] for that matter
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Lhurgoyf
Necrogoyf's power is equal to the number of creature cards in all graveyards.
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player discards a card.
Madness (If you discard this card, discard it into exile. When you do, cast it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard.)
*/4
static spire
I'm going to tentatively try [[Tectonic Reformation]] in that slot, to see if it helps when I top-deck lands
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment
Each land card in your hand has cycling .
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
Alone in the charred desolation of her kingdom, she regretted many things—most of all not acting sooner.
static spire
...I lied, I'm going with [[Bone Miser]] because I want to pair that with [[Chains of Mephistopheles]] lol
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Zombie Wizard
Whenever you discard a creature card, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.
Whenever you discard a land card, add .
Whenever you discard a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.
4/4
zealous ferry
What's the problem been with the construct for you both? Just meh or worse?
static spire
What's the problem been with the construct for you both? Just meh or worse?
For me, at least, I rarely have enough mana to CAST the thing I discarded. If it let me cast until the end of my next turn, it would be spectacular
zealous ferry
I can see that. I think I've just managed to be lucky with it then
static spire
Also, I swapped Uchuulon out (since Sheoldred does Uchuulon's job better) in favor of Anje's Ravager, and Invasion of Kaldheim out in favor of Hymn to Tourach (Invasion didn't help me rebuild my hand if I get hellbent, and Hymn raises my FRQ while also decimating the first person to recover a bit of a hand)
glacial cradle
[[Hymn to tourach]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
[[Hymn to tourach]]
rare mango
I got to play with invasion of tolvada last night in limited. I can see why you like that card, holy shit
Most cards are blank for me until I get to draft with them 😂
knotty shard
Tolvada and Gobakhan are my top 2 battles
static spire
I got to play with invasion of tolvada last night in limited. I can see why you ...
It's pretty amazing, yeah 😂 It's won me every game where I drew it in Teysa.
I consider it probably 4th-best, it's on the border of A and S-tier for me?
Tell me more, how did it play out for you?
static spire
Tolvada and Gobakhan are my top 2 battles
The five I think are best -- Gobakhan, Tolvada, Kaldheim, Segovia, and Ikoria -- I'd personally rank like this?
- Segovia (completely cracked once it flips, holy heck)
- Gobakhan (extremely efficient little spell, on both sides, and easy to flip)
- Kaldheim (just a really solid draw spell honestly, the back side is... fine)
- Tolvada (powerful reanimation, great back side to stabilize life total)
- Ikoria (it's another Finale, but just so boring tbh, and the non-human can be bad)
I'm curious if there's any more that I'm not ranking highly enough.
static spire
(Also, @torn vigil , this is my Araumi list -- https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Cx0f3NJkDU203YLF6K3kqQ -- I'd love to compare notes at some point)
static spire
But I agree with this for generic decks
Are there any that you think are great for specific narrow builds?
I'm just curious to see what I'm not paying enough attention to.
knotty shard
Yeah like, Tarkir for dragon decks
static spire
I'm unsure if Tarkir is amazing for dragon tribal tbh 😂
2-mana sorcery-speed kill spell is... fine, but not amazing
The back side is pretty solid overall, but you don't get dragon tribal things like cost reduction etc
torn vigil
(Also, <@275712444909748234> , this is my Araumi list -- https://www.moxfield.co...
Definitely at a higher power band than mine!
static spire
I know that a few of my friends who play Ur-Dragon have described it as "fine enough, but not spectacular" after testing
Might be better in dragon decks with less colors?
knotty shard
I know that a few of my friends who play Ur-Dragon have described it as "fine en...
Right but it's actively bad elsewhere lol
static spire
Yeah, it feels like [[Invasion of Ravnica]] in that way.
knotty shard
I think invasion of Ravnica may be OK in some weirdo specific build
static spire
Ravnica is the wild-card for me, yeah -- I don't know quite what deck it's good in, but my deckbuilding instincts tell me that it's going to be amazing somewhere
knotty shard
Probably in Niv Mizzet Reborn decks and not much else
But im ALMOST thinking of playing it as plain removal in colorless
Seems good compared to [[introduction to annihilation]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Definitely at a higher power band than mine!
I'm curious how Sundial has treated you. How many of the things you reanimate have you wanted to keep around, vs ones which are useful primarily for ETB/dies triggers?
I would highly recommend the blue Zubera and Undead Augur, they're very cheap to acquire and can both give you a 2-mana draw-9 with Araumi 😄
static spire
But im ALMOST thinking of playing it as plain removal in colorless
It's definitely less good than All is Dust, 8-mana Ugin's minus, and 6-mana Ugin... but 4th best is certainly not bad in colorless
How would you rate Invasion of Ravnica vs Scour from Existence or [[Titan's Presence]]?
timber mesaBOT
rare mango
It's pretty amazing, yeah 😂 It's won me every game where I drew it in Teysa.
...
I won every game where it resolved. Always worth flipping, even with a single knight token and just a few incubators. Deck was mostly white, with a black and red splash
Ended up only 3-3, two losses I got stuck on mana and the third they countered invasion of tolvada 🤣
static spire
I won every game where it resolved. Always worth flipping, even with a single kn...
Yeah, that tracks. It's kept me alive by gaining me 15+ per turn in Teysa, every time I got it.
...I kinda want to find a way to use it in a life-payment deck.
rare mango
I also had TWO invasion of ravnica, which felt nutty in limited
static spire
I also had TWO invasion of ravnica, which felt nutty in limited
Was the back side ever relevant? Or just the front side being super good for limited?
(Two of the same mythic is hilarious)
rare mango
Back side was just a vanilla 5/5
Pack 3 picks 1 and 2 even 🤣
I think I only flipped it once
static spire
I suppose that "4 damage: earn a free 5/5" is a good rate overall
rare mango
5 mana exile target thing is good enough on its own
static spire
I'm glad you've joined me on hyping Tolvada though 😂
Were any others good in limited? Either from your own pool, or opponents'.
knotty shard
I suppose that "4 damage: earn a free 5/5" is a good rate overall
kinda, giving up 4 damage to the face is big cost (in limited)
static spire
I haven't played any limited with MOM, so honestly I have zero idea if people defend battles very hard.
Do people tend to defend battles very actively, if they'd lose blocking creatures?
static spire
kinda, giving up 4 damage to the face is big cost (in limited)
the battle damage is a larger hurdle than I thought in EDH, too, though obviously less than limited
knotty shard
I feel it's the same as if they were attacking face. They will block you if it's a favorable trade, and not if its not
feral briar
I need to get me my battles 😩
rare mango
Invasion of dominaria is a solid draft uncommon. I haven’t played with/against too many, but [[invasion of capenna]] was pretty scary
timber mesaBOT
Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of New Capenna enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice an artifact or creature. When you do, exile target artifact or creature an opponent controls.
Defense: 4
Holy Frazzle-Cannon
Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature and each other creature you control that shares a creature type with it.
Equip
"They're using my Halo stockpile for what?" —Jetmir
static spire
I feel it's the same as if they were attacking face. They will block you if it's...
Good data, thank you. (In case I ever play limited MOM lol)
rare mango
I only draft on arena 😂🤷♂️
static spire
Invasion of dominaria is a solid draft uncommon. I haven’t played with/against t...
yeah, it feels pretty nasty for any kind of tribal build
rare mango
Turns out there’s a few good important creature types in the set
knotty shard
and not just Phyrexian
rare mango
I said a few 😂
knotty shard
although WB is the right colors for phyrexian
static spire
Oh? What tribes are relevant in MOM apart from Phyrexians?
glacial cradle
Knights
rare mango
UW has a knights subtheme
knotty shard
yup
rare mango
That’s the biggest other one I can think of
torn vigil
I'm curious how Sundial has treated you. How many of the things you reanimate ha...
Oh sure. Zubera makes sense. Sundial has not come up much. If I wanted to tubro charge this I'd definitely add back orb
rare mango
If they can flip [[invasion of ulgrotha]] it can get nasty, but I’ve been lucky most of the time and have removal in hand for that 😂
static spire
I have a friend who's SUPER hype on [[Invasion of Karsus]]
static spire
I generally trust his card analysis skills, but I'm not fully convinced on this one
rare mango
I could see it in non-u spellslinger decks
glacial cradle
I only recently realized [[Invasion of Fiora]] says one or both
feral briar
It seems alright. 4 mana 3 damage is below rate but not terrible. 2 damage per spell after seems solid
static spire
Yeah. 6-mana boardwipes need to be pretty good though, to outvalue stuff like Farewell or Austere Command
glacial cradle
Mmmm, fair
static spire
My question for Invasion of Fiora is whether the back side is any good
...I wonder
Marchesa
Hah! We are free from the bot here
I'm curious how often Marchesa's "remove all counters" mode is relevant
It murders a couple of my decks, and does nothing against the others
rare mango
I feel like that’s for limited
More than any constructed format
Marchesa is pretty bonkers though. 6 toughness, menace and deathtouch is tough
static spire
It can assassinate planeswalkers, and it would WRECK my Roalesk build obviously
static spire
Marchesa is pretty bonkers though. 6 toughness, menace and deathtouch is tough
It's nice to have the monarch draw as well, I suppose
knotty shard
@static spire Invasion of Fiora is pretty cracked for Legendary matters decks
they already have other options like Urza's Ruinous Blast and such but
static spire
Yeah, duplication is good for narrow themes
knotty shard
and Marchesa is sometimes a banger
auto wipe a walker or a loaded The Ozolith is dope
glacial cradle
If you're legendary matters, you can prolly crack the battle same turn too
Wipe non-legends, give to someone who only had non legends, hit with your legends
knotty shard
I feel Invasion of Shandalar can be kinda busted with something
like, if you get your three best cards, flip, get 1-2 triggers and you then somewhow bounce it back to your hand to recast
knotty shard
like, in an enchantress deck or something
glacial cradle
Maybe
It's tough to find decks that want recursion in this quantity that don't already have it as a theme or commander
But enchantress could work
knotty shard
Theros is also pretty good for enchantress as you expect
Eidolon of Blossoms is sometimes the best enchantress, and Ephara gets you another copy of it
or you may just not have access to G
glacial cradle
Getting a copy of Theros has significantly increased my chance of building a theoretical deck I've been considering
knotty shard
og Bruna, attack with Ephara out seems delicious
glacial cradle
I have tested a build of Zur, Eternal Schemer and it has been incredible, and Theros slots in easy
knotty shard
yeah, likely both zurs
glacial cradle
I also got a copy of OG zur in a dmu pack
So maybe I'll slot him in when I build new Zur
timber mesaBOT
Legendary Creature — Rabbit Wizard
Whenever another nontoken creature enters the battlefield under your control, if it wasn't cast, create a token that's a copy of that creature, except it's a 0/1 white Illusion.
, Sacrifice five Illusions: Exile target nonland permanent.
2/5
static spire
I’m already running the new Elesh Norn and she’s been fantastic
He’s another way to double up after blinking, and I’m already running a lot of blink
rare mango
seems like a pretty good blink piece, what's your worst existing blink card?
static spire
Hmmmmmm. Blink enabler or blink payoff?
rare mango
worst of each? 🤷♂️
static spire
Worst blink enabler is probably Cloudshift or Eldrazi Displacer (but both have been solid)
Worst payoff, uh… not certain! I already cut Terror of the Peaks, who would have been my previous answer
feral briar
The rabbit does require it to not be cast so it would only work with cloudshift, ephemerate, displacer, and the sword in your case right?
static spire
Also with Teshar and Warsinger
feral briar
[[warsinger]]
timber mesaBOT
feral briar
With warsinger it seems tougher but it could be worth and is tutorable with one of the recruiters
static spire
With warsinger it seems tougher but it could be worth and is tutorable with one ...
Yeah, he's tutorable with Imperial Recruiter and he can survive an Avacyn flip naturally 🤔
What I really need is a 1-mana 1/1 creature which says "sacrifice: blink target permanent you control"
feral briar
Could certainly be tested out at least. Something like recruiter into stoneforge into blink sword into getting the rabbit seems pretty fun
soon ™️
static spire
Could certainly be tested out at least. Something like recruiter into stoneforge...
Yeah, it's a thing I already do with some consistency tbh
static spire
Hey, if people want to help with more sorta-Daedalus deckbuilding, check out #1102813870340448266
static spire
A friend of mine needs some help with his first deck, I think we could all do that 😉
static spire
Hmmmm, I might build this guy.
Are there good ways to make him nonlegendary, apart from Helm of the Host?
I also really want to make token copies of [[Anointed Procession]] / [[Parallel Lives]]
glacial cradle
I feel like I'd just use his second ability to copy like, [[All that glitters]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Ugh, I might finally have to shell out for a [[Doubling Season]] 😂
timber mesaBOT
static spire
since both halves of his ability interact with it
glacial cradle
Copying [[Snake Umbra]] is just solid.
timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
Running him to get as many token doublers as you can, and they make a million of some basic auras seems sweet
feral briar
Are there good ways to make him nonlegendary, apart from Helm of the Host?
the classicsz [[mirror box]] [[mirror gallery]]
static spire
Those don't make him non-legendary alas
feral briar
OH i shoulda read the card first lmao
helm might be the only thing then sadly
we need a new weak/meekstone that removes legendary
rare mango
I think helm is the only way in gw
glacial cradle
Looks like it's that and frickin [[Hall of Mirrors]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Looks like it's that and frickin [[Hall of Mirrors]]
I have standards 🤮
glacial cradle
You don't wanna fish for your one relevant attraction and then successfully visit it and then have a bunch of other creatures to turn into Calix and then make a token copy of him?
(Also, nbd but I don't like being referred to by honorifics)
static spire
(Also, nbd but I don't like being referred to by honorifics)
fair enough!
static spire
You don't wanna fish for your one relevant attraction and then successfully visi...
...no, that sounds like the WORST thing lol
feral briar
tne best worst thing
glacial cradle
So yeah, copy plan prolly won't work very well, but he does still seem like a fun commander, especially with doublers.
feral briar
5c Ømnath w/ Hidden Commander Calix
glacial cradle
Secret Commanders always feel too janky to be interesting to me
static spire
Secret Commanders always feel too janky to be interesting to me
I've built several secret commander decks, but the trick is to make sure the deck still functions without them
rare mango
Copy plan is great if you add red or blue to the deck 🙂
You defs don’t need WUBRG to make it work||brg||
static spire
Okay SO
I've built an initial draft for Calix
Holy CRAP
this deck SLAPS
(Elemental Mastery will become Leyline Immersion)
zealous ferry
aside I need to remember the Calix non-legendary shenanigans idea for Bant enchantress.
I can see why you'd like it with the Light-Paws crossover. Did you look at [[Bramble Sovereign]] in the list?
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Dryad
Whenever another nontoken creature enters the battlefield, you may pay . If you do, that creature's controller creates a token that's a copy of that creature.
Life runs wild amid the tanged branches.
4/4
zealous ferry
That can do some interesting things with the constellation triggers, token enchantments and Myth Unbound.
Magical christmas land being pay 1G to make 3 token copies of Calix, sacrifice 2 copies and the original.
static spire
I can see why you'd like it with the Light-Paws crossover. Did you look at [[Bra...
I don't feel like I have enough non-legendary creatures for it to really work 🤔
But I'll consider it, thank you! I'm also trying to see if I can make space for, like, Overwhelming Splendor
Let me overwhelm everyone!
Calix Curses sounds like a very fun build as well, honestly.
zealous ferry
Well, I was thinking even if the legendary copies die you have enough constellation triggers that you at least will get that benefit
In the same way your Roalesk copies dying do something.
But the tokens should see each other and they'd each put x counters on something
static spire
Fair! I don’t have as much constellation as you might think though
Most enchantress stuff is casting unfortunately
zealous ferry
nod I get that it's probably too cute. But I'd probably also be running [[Femeref Enchantress]]
timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
Which has the problem of being RL
but I got it when it was in a bulk bin [[$Femeref Enchantress]]
timber mesaBOT
static spire
I may run it, depending on how often people kill the creature carrying the auras!
Having more two drops (or even better, 1-drops) among my creatures would be fantastic, since then Calix can come down and I get his trigger immediately
zealous ferry
nod
static spire
Are there any 1-drops you find valuable in enchantress?
I included Esper Sentinel since he's very funny with cheap auras like Rancor
rare mango
[[generous visitor]][[helm of the gods]]?
timber mesaBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each enchantment you control.
Equip (: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Its blessings are as numerous as the stars of Nyx.
sage cloak
Are there any 1-drops you find valuable in enchantress?
[[Exploration]], [[Burgeoning]]
sage cloak
All that draw lets you have a ton of lands in hand
static spire
[[Exploration]], [[Burgeoning]]
Sorry, I meant 1-drop creatures specifically.
sage cloak
Ah. Well, your classic suite of one drop mana dorks can’t hurt to get Calix out t2
static spire
[[Alseid of Life's Bounty]] was the big one I had considered.
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment Creature — Nymph
Lifelink
, Sacrifice Alseid of Life's Bounty: Target creature or enchantment you control gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
"Dawn-kissed, he nourishes the golden grain." —Psemilla, Meletian poet
1/1
zealous ferry
[[Vigilant Martyr]] is the weird enchantment protection
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Human Cleric
Sacrifice Vigilant Martyr: Regenerate target creature.
, , Sacrifice Vigilant Martyr: Counter target spell that targets an enchantment.
1/1
static spire
I've considered [[Generous Visitor]] as well
timber mesaBOT
static spire
If I wanted to add Alseid, what would you cut here? https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Z2ncRwIRXkCVlTemWtYo7Q
(The "enchant land" auras are amazing here, by the way. Calix's trigger is fantastic when it generates a permanent extra mana post-combat)
zealous ferry
nod
static spire
The deck feels a little disjointed, still? But I can feel it coming together. Cuts are getting hard 😅
zealous ferry
I hate that there's an easy cut for me for my LGS 😅 since carpet of flowers is still dead more often than not.
static spire
I could cut Nyxbloom, I suppose, but oh MAN when I manage to drop it and copy it, it's so absurd
Could cut Jaheira, she's only good if I'm already doing a lot with Calix
Hold on, lemme add a few things, then we can talk cuts
zealous ferry
Huh... I forgot [[Mirage Mirror]] can copy enchantments
timber mesaBOT
Artifact
: Mirage Mirror becomes a copy of target artifact, creature, enchantment, or land until end of turn.
Most mirrors show your reflection. Others show your potential.
static spire
[[Dawn Evangel]] could be funny.
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Build-my-own-commander with Light-Paws
Shame that Calix isn't two mana 🤔
Okay, so I'm definitely adding [[Warbriar Blessing]] and [[Alseid of the Harvest]]
static spire
[[Alseid of Life's Bounty]]
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment Creature — Nymph
Lifelink
, Sacrifice Alseid of Life's Bounty: Target creature or enchantment you control gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
"Dawn-kissed, he nourishes the golden grain." —Psemilla, Meletian poet
1/1
static spire
which means I need two cuts!
Low-key considering [[Weathered Wayfarer]] as well, since he can grab Serra's Sanctum
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Human Nomad Cleric
, : Search your library for a land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle. Activate only if an opponent controls more lands than you.
1/1
static spire
Maybe cut Myth Unbound? It's hilarious if I copy it, since I'll never need to pay commander tax and it dis-incentivizes killing my commander, but...
Bleh, I need 3 cuts 😅
glacial cradle
What does Nyxbloom do here? I don't see a clear mana sink or way to cheat it out
static spire
What does Nyxbloom do here? I don't see a clear mana sink or way to cheat it out
I do have a few ways to cheat it out -- Pattern of Rebirth, Defense of the Heart -- and the mana is theoretically just sunk into casting more spells since enchantresses generally keep my hand full? Or Finale, lol.
I just really want to copy Nyxbloom for nine-fold mana 😅
If we're cutting Nyxbloom, could also potentially cut Mana Reflection?
glacial cradle
Prolly
Also, I totally get wanting to copy Nyxbloom. I just tend to approach your decks from an effective power perspective
static spire
I'll pitch Mana Reflection for now, see if I desperately need to add something over Nyxy boy
...maybe I should cut Nyxbloom for Open the Armory?
Feels bad, but
...probably another land, actually
glacial cradle
Lands are important
static spire
Lands are important
Okay, I cut Nyxbloom and Mana Crypt for two lands
I've realized that I don't really have many ways to sink colorless XD
glacial cradle
Cutting mana crypt for a land is classic
Damn, Sterling Grove is crazy enough to make up for it, but sucks that it stops you enchanting Calix
Well, I guess aura copies he makes can still attach to him?
static spire
Damn, Sterling Grove is crazy enough to make up for it, but sucks that it stops ...
It's not as big of a deal as one might think, since -- when possible -- I want to enchant other stuff
glacial cradle
Mmmm, fair enough
static spire
The inability for Calix to place a counter on himself via Constellation is a bigger problem
static spire
Well, I guess aura copies he makes can still attach to him?
Yep!
This deck makes extensive use of that loophole
glacial cradle
Checks out
static spire
Also, Esper Sentinel? Absolutely dirty.
Calix's constellation quickly makes his tax utterly unpayable
and he's a good aura carrier in the early game
ideal opener is T1 Esper, T2 All that Glitters, T3 Calix swing Esper make another All that Glitters onto Calix this time
glacial cradle
Jeez
static spire
Mark of Sakiko is pretty sweet too!
glacial cradle
I like Esper Sentinel. It feels so much fairer than Rhystic and Mystic, but can go crazy if you Voltron it up
static spire
Update: I put Mana Crypt back in, but kept the extra land (I think I want to stay at 32), I cut [[Myth Unbound]] instead
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment
Your commander costs less to cast for each time it's been cast from the command zone this game.
Whenever your commander is put into the command zone from anywhere, draw a card.
There are precious few names that echo throughout the Multiverse.
static spire
Am I missing any good tutors that can get Light-Paws?
I suppose I should probably be on GSZ for Sythis and Sanctum Weaver, even if I can't fetch Paws
sigh Another cut!
sage cloak
Always fun, looking for a cut and end up with 2 cuts to find
sage cloak
Am I missing any good tutors that can get Light-Paws?
Haven’t looked at the deck yet but [[Invasion of Ikoria]]
static spire
Haven’t looked at the deck yet but [[Invasion of Ikoria]]
Yep, that one is in there!
I skipped Eldritch Evolution and Chord since I didn’t think I had enough creatures to reliably make it work
sage cloak
Evo does say x or less, can always sac calix lol
static spire
Evo does say x or less, can always sac calix lol
It does, but I’d prefer not to do that if possible
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
[[Congregation at dawn]] can get two enchantresses and light paws at the same time
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
Cast enchantress, cast enchantment, draw light paws
static spire
Ooh, true
Eidolon of Blossoms comes down, immediately draws Sanctum Weaver, Weaver draws Paws…
How dare you, now I need to consider another cut 😂
sage cloak
Hah you asked for tutors for light paws
static spire
What would you cut at present?
sage cloak
I haven’t looked at the deck I won’t lie
Got a link so I don’t have to scroll for eternity
static spire
If I wanted to add Alseid, what would you cut here? https://www.moxfield.com/dec...
Here’s the link
static spire
Who said this was casual?
sage cloak
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Meant non cedh in general
Weaver of harmony seems largely cute, but it could be more effective than I’m picturing
static spire
Weaver has proven fantastic honestly, especially since Calix can clone him and he triggers the enchantresses
sage cloak
Gryff’s boon just seems kinda fine too
Especially at 4 mana
And doesn’t trigger the “cast” enchantresses
And I don’t think you need Keen Sense in an enchantress deck
static spire
It’s there for the extreme efficiency of 1-mana flying to get combat damage triggers
static spire
Drawing cards is not an issue that needs shored up
In general I agree, but I do need a critical density of 1-cost auras: both for Paws and also to ensure that I can have an enchanted creature doing damage to trigger Calix
sage cloak
Season of growth is spicy
static spire
Season of growth is spicy
Even spicier when I clone it multiple times lol
sage cloak
Maybe defense of the heart? Not a huge fan considering you’re spending 4 mana to get like… 4-5 mana worth of creatures
When you can tutor three creatures unconditionally at instant speed
To the top, but when you crack that mini doomsday pile you end up with light paws and two enchantresses
static spire
Defense is also something I can copy with Calix though… 🤔
I think I'd cut Pattern of Rebirth before I cut Defense. With that being said, those two DID low-key rely on having Nyxbloom as a giant thing to tutor...
...maybe Benevolent Blessing, actually.
Benevolent Blessing is an all-star in my Light-Paws builds, but it's no longer as necessary here since I can just... fetch full hexproof with Canopy Cover.
Okay, so here's the plan I think. Cut Benevolent Blessing and Pattern of Rebirth, add Convocation at Dawn and Mantle of the Ancients.
We keep the same density of auras that can tutor Sage's Reverie (which, by the way, is another absurd cloning effect when Calix goes off), but trade a (less) useful aura for another way to get Paws.
I don't have a consistent way to kill the thing I'd enchanted Pattern to, so I think this is an upside.
static spire
Weaver of harmony seems largely cute, but it could be more effective than I’m pi...
oh wait, I thought you were talking about Jukai Naturalist. Yeah, Weaver is more "cute" than "amazing", but I do like having the option to clone Calix, aura ETBs, Defense, etc
also, he's a snake! with a cute little HAT
how can I not love himb
sage cloak
True true, it’s just the question of “how desperately does this deck want an enchantment version of a trigger copier”
glacial cradle
Its like, the only way to get multiple Calix triggers on his second ability
Wait
I... Does that actually work? I'm not sure that actually works.
Cuz he's worded as 'do this only once each turn'. Nothing stops him from triggering multiple times, just actually using those triggers
Damn
static spire
I... Does that actually work? I'm not sure that actually works.
It does work!
"Do this once per turn" is implemented by "this ability does not trigger if you've already done it once this turn", but copying the trigger itself is fine
If [[Weaver of Harmony]] said "Calix triggers an additional time" it would do nothing -- similar to how double strike doesn't work with him -- but "copy target triggered ability" works fine 🙂
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment Creature — Snake Druid
Other enchantment creatures you control get +1/+1.
, : Copy target activated or triggered ability you control from an enchantment source. You may choose new targets for the copy. (Mana abilities can't be targeted.)
2/2
static spire
True true, it’s just the question of “how desperately does this deck want an enc...
Given that he's an enchantment himself, and thus is ALSO copiable by Calix (and triggers all the enchantment synergies) I think it's fine
glacial cradle
I'm not sure on that. I think what you described would be "this ability triggers only once each turn". Calix can trigger multiple times, but you can only choose to copy something once per turn.
ocean tree
[[calix guided]]
timber mesaBOT
ocean tree
Seems pretty good yeah
static spire
I'm not sure on that. I think what you described would be "this ability triggers...
603.2i. A triggered ability may have an instruction followed by "Do this only once each turn." This ability triggers only if its source's controller has not yet taken the indicated action that turn.
The "once each turn" limitation is tied to the ability triggering. Hence, something like Panharmonicon won't help, but something like Weaver of Harmony will work!
zealous ferry
Yeah, you're copying what happened because of the trigger and not the trigger itself
glacial cradle
But, that... Doesn't make sense for Calix? He triggers multiple times already and they all go on the stack at once.
Wait, that shouldn't stop Panharmonicon either by that description, cuz the action hasn't been taken until the trigger resolves, right? Am I going crazy?
glacial cradle
[[Nykthos Paragon]] ruling. Is copying the ability on the stack different from multiple instances going on the stack at once?
timber mesaBOT
sage cloak
[[Nykthos Paragon]] ruling. Is copying the ability on the stack different from m...
Yes
It’s basically copying the text of the ability
glacial cradle
I'ma stop taking up this channel to get some thoughts in #mtg-rules-questions cuz this is perplexing me
static spire
Yep, you were right.
So, @glacial cradle , what do I fit into that slot now?
Maybe [[Starfield Mystic]], he's a "ramp" piece who lets me curve T2 Mystic into T3 Calix, an aura, and swing.
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Human Cleric
Enchantment spells you cast cost less to cast.
Whenever an enchantment you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on Starfield Mystic.
"The realm of the gods opens before me!"
2/2
glacial cradle
Yeah that's seems like a solid pick. Not an enchantment himself, but takes on the role. Do you have any of the Kamigawa flip sagas already?
static spire
Yeah that's seems like a solid pick. Not an enchantment himself, but takes on th...
Not yet! I was concerned that I'd lose value, esp since I didn't think any sagas had fantastic first-chapters, did you have one in mind?
glacial cradle
Michiko's reign of truth, Restoration of Eigango, and Jukai something something are the ones that come to mind.
Mostly Michiko's, as a temporary all that glitters that survives removal. None of them are great to copy with Calix, but they synergize with his first ability and other constellations quite a lot.
static spire
I've stuck [[Battle Mastery]] back into the list.
timber mesaBOT
static spire
It's a bit of a non-bo with Calix's innate ability, of course – it doesn't do anything when copied, and Calix can only happen once per turn. But it turns out that it's still super lethal, because:
- Light-Paws can pair-tutor [[Ancestral Mask]] and Battle Mastery, and instantly become a one-hit.
- Double strike is great for more combat-related hands, because Calix uses the first hit to clone a pump aura like [[All that Glitters]], and then power is significantly boosted for the second strike. Or copy an aura with an effect on combat damage.
static spire
I'll admit, I'm increasingly tempted to run [[Mortal Obstinacy]], it's such an efficient little card.
timber mesaBOT
static spire
On a more humorous note, I've accidentally killed myself several times by drawing dead.
static spire
LOL
someone reminded me
[[Calix, Guided by Fate]] doesn't say "creature you control"
timber mesaBOT
static spire
So [[Generous Patron]] is another enchantress here!
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Man, that card continues to be bonkers in every deck I build.
Of my four green/X decks, it's an all-star in three.
I cut [[Congregation at Dawn]] for Generous Patron, Congregation was just kinda awkward. By the time I had enough mana to use it effectively, I was already winning.
timber mesaBOT
static spire
I'm also cutting Mana Crypt for now because I realized I don't, uh... I don't have an extra 😅
[[Incubation Druid]] instead, since he can curve into six mana T3 with Calix's innate ability
timber mesaBOT
Creature — Elf Druid
: Add one mana of any type that a land you control could produce. If Incubation Druid has a +1/+1 counter on it, add three mana of that type instead.
: Adapt 3. (If this creature has no +1/+1 counters on it, put three +1/+1 counters on it.)
0/2
static spire
Also, hahahahaha, I think I've had my best opener of all time in Calix.
T1: Mana Crypt, Plains, Light-Paws.
T2: Forest, Leyline Immersion on Paws, tutor Sage's Reverie, tap her for 5, cast Calix, cast All that Glitters and tutor Canopy Cover.
T3: Plains, Ancestral Mask tutors Battle Mastery, Daybreak Coronet tutors Ethereal Armor. Swing for WAY more than lethal on someone, and draw an additional 8 cards by copying Sage's Rev on combat damage 😅
I'm cutting Crypt so it won't happen again, at least for now. But STILL!
zealous ferry
So [[Generous Patron]] is another enchantress here!
Also fun with Fall of the Impostor or messing up power/toughness calculations
static spire
[[fall of the impostor]]
timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
Oh, and [[Nils]]
timber mesaBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
At the beginning of your end step, for each player, put a +1/+1 counter on up to one target creature that player controls.
Each creature with one or more counters on it can't attack you or planeswalkers you control unless its controller pays 
, where X is the number of counters on that creature.
2/2
static spire
I'm feeling a strong need for [[Instill Energy]] here? Offbrand haste and vigilance, essentially.
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can attack as though it had haste.
: Untap enchanted creature. Activate only during your turn and only once each turn.
static spire
I want a tutorable way to let Light-Paws slap people silly, on the same turn she comes down, and this would do that.
It's also pretty silly when combined with [[Leyline Immersion]]!
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant legendary creature
Enchanted creature has ward and ": Add five mana in any combination of colors. Spend this mana only to cast spells."
When Nissa tapped into Zhalfir's leylines, she was shocked to feel not a piece of Dominaria, but a plane all its own.
static spire
But now I need another cut... 🤔
static spire
...the discussion in #official-previews made me realize I'm running Llanowar and friends in Roalesk but NOT BOP
I have no idea how I missed him
sigh Cutting time!
And on a sadder topic, I realized that one of my classic Light-Paws auras -- [[Shield of Duty and Reason]] doesn't actually work right in this new deck, since I'm attaching green auras. Should be obvious, I know, but...
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Well, at least that gives me a natural cut for [[Instill Energy]]!
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can attack as though it had haste.
: Untap enchanted creature. Activate only during your turn and only once each turn.
static spire
While I'm at it, I might as well try cutting something for [[Eldrazi Conscription]] -- just because I've always wanted to run it in a deck, dammit
timber mesaBOT
static spire
And this deck is definitely capable of ramping enough
static spire
Hey, can I get some thoughts on something?
I'd really like to hear thoughts on [[Dawn's Reflection]] / [[Market Festival]] in this new Calix build (the low-key secret commander Light-Paws one).
static spire
In general, auras like [[Wild Growth]] and [[Overgrowth]] have been absolute MVPs, because I can cast them on an untapped land, swing with Calix, and get immediate double value the same turn.
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant land
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, its controller adds an additional .
If you stop to listen, you can hear it grow.
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant land
Whenever enchanted land is tapped for mana, its controller adds an additional .
"Let the forest spread! From salt, stone, and fen, let the new trees rise." —Molimo, maro-sorcerer
static spire
However, I'm concerned that I won't have four mana plus an untapped land as easily, and also cuts are getting tight.
On the other hand, these two allow me to tutor [[Sage's Reverie]] with Light-Paws, which just goes absolutely bonkers out of control when it happens.
timber mesaBOT
static spire
Do you think they're worth it, and what would you cut?
static spire
It's worth mentioning that, unless someone else has a better idea, my most likely cuts would be [[Anointed Procession]] and [[Parallel Lives]].
static spire
I’m not a fan of 4 mana ramp, period
In general I totally agree, but building Light-Paws has made me very intrigued by 4-cost auras
Since there's a plethora of silly options like Sage's Reverie or Leyline Immersion
ocean tree
I think I’d embrace the Ben Wheeler Principle here:
“Don’t play bad cards to make your good cards better.”
Have you felt like you’re getting stuck on mana at all?
static spire
Have you felt like you’re getting stuck on mana at all?
Stuck on colors occasionally
Stuck on actual AMOUNT of mana? Much more rarely
ocean tree
Then you should be fine
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant creature you control
: Untap enchanted creature. Activate only during your turn and only once each turn.
Tap enchanted creature: Untap target artifact, creature, or land. Activate only if enchanted creature is white and untapped and only once each turn.
static spire
I knew about this card's existence before
But I've never played it in a deck before, and oh my GOD
static spire
I really wish that [[Instill Energy]] granted true haste, though.
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can attack as though it had haste.
: Untap enchanted creature. Activate only during your turn and only once each turn.
static spire
Okay, so lemme ask a different question.
In white-green, are there any enchantments (or combinations of enchantments, or cards which synergize with enchantments) which allow me to instantly win the game if I have infinite mana and infinite draw? Long story short, I'm trying to find a way to actually WIN off drawing my deck with infinite mana, without making that winning outlet dead in "normal" games.
Aetherflux is as close as I could think of, since that's at least valuable if I have a lifelinking aura like Daybreak Coronet? 🤷♂️
Possible cuts: Compost, Incubation Druid, Eldrazi Conscription, Mantle of the Ancients?
I'm too tired to make good deckbuilding decisions right now, I doubt I'll even remember this post tomorrow.
ocean tree
[[blind obedience]]
timber mesaBOT
Enchantment
Extort (Whenever you cast a spell, you may pay 
. If you do, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain that much life.)
Artifacts and creatures your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped.
"By the time your knees have worn through your robe, you may have begun to learn your place."
ocean tree
Easy answer
static spire
Easy answer
Great idea, thank you.
Okay, I think the deck is finally at the stage where I’m properly happy with it
Once I finish this academic essay I’m going to write a primer and do some play testing
static spire
To give an idea of how this new Calix deck plays, here's an above-average-but-not-exceptional hand that happened today in an online game.
T1: Land, Chrome Mox, Herald of the Pantheon
T2: Land, Calix, Mark of Sakiko (and two counters) on Herald, clone Mark of Sakiko onto Calix when Herald hits, cast Worldly Tutor for Eidolon of Blossoms, cast Canopy Cover on Calix, let the last G dissipate.
T3: Land, Eidolon of Blossoms (draw, counter on Calix), swing and generate GGGGGGGG. Make another Eidolon on hitting (draw 2). Cast Sylvan Library (draw 2) and a Wild Growth on my untapped land (draw 2). Hit Crop Rotation into Serra's Sanctum. Tap Sanctum to cast Eladamri's Call into Light-Paws. Cast a random 1-drop aura and use Paws to tutor Nature's Chosen (draw 4). Tap Light-Paws to untap Serra's Sanctum. Tap Sanctum for Careful Excavation (draw 2). Bounce the Wild Growth and stick it onto Serra's Sanctum (draw 2). Go to infinite mana and draw, via bouncing and re-casting Nature's Chosen, to untap Sanctum each time. Bounce my two Eidolons when I get too close to decking. Drop Blind Obedience with infinite white mana and storm count. Drain all opponents to death.
zealous ferry
So how are you feeling on Calix vs Lightpaws?
ocean tree
That
Is an “above average but not exceptionally hand?
My sister in Christ
You won on turn 3
You did get lucky tho
Both with the opener and then also hitting Worldly, Crop Rot, Excavation, and Eladamri’s
Some pretty cracked draws
static spire
Both with the opener and then also hitting Worldly, Crop Rot, Excavation, and El...
See, that's the thing!
I DID get lucky for sure, but IMO the real luck was more in "nobody stopped me with instant-speed removal, and nobody had a Rhystic/Fish/stax", because nobody realized the deck's level of danger yet.
Once the deck gets rolling, it FINDS what I need really really fast (via Light-Paws, enchantress draw, tutor effects, etc), since I've got about twenty interlocking combo lines.
If it hadn't been Crop Rotation into Serra's Sanctum, it would have been a land-aura on a random land plus Cloudstone plus Nature's Chosen, or Leyline Immersion on Paws plus a set of untapping effects, or Concordant + Cloudstone + Sanctum Weaver, or...
The long story short is that I really like the deck 😂
As an addendum: when I said “above average but not exceptionally", I mostly meant my opener itself. I started on five with pretty much just Chrome Mox and Worldly Tutor, everything else in the hand was relatively mediocre. I bootstrapped the win from the draw that Worldly --> Eidolon gave me, with definitely an element of luck. I think I've goldfished one or two T2 combo-kills, but T3 is generally as fast as I can go. I was just very surprised I won fast off a hand that -- at the start -- looked comparatively mediocre to me.
static spire
So how are you feeling on Calix vs Lightpaws?
They're similar in some ways, but feel different to pilot.
Light-Paws in command zone is better at protecting herself and less vulnerable to removal. It's a bit faster (on average) to kill the FIRST player, but slower to actually close out the game since I need to actually whack each opponent to death sequentially.
Calix-Paws is more explosive, packed with draw, and wins out of nowhere (since combo is the main plan, and voltron is the still-viable backup). However, it feels more vulnerable to stax and removal, especially when at instant-speed.
One big problem is that when Light-Paws (in CZ) is on the path to winning you'll know it for a turn or two beforehand, because I have to commit to battlefield HARD. Calix often vomits fifty permanents onto battlefield, to be clear, but can accomplish that with very little initial setup and win the same turn.
I like them both, but for now I think I'll be building Calix in paper over Paws-in-Zone? Since they overlap on a lot of expensive cards 😦
static spire
(Also, before I forget -- BOP in, Crypt out for Roalesk. Not sure why I forgot Birds of Paradise there!)
(This is so I can steal the Crypt to build Calix in paper.)
static spire
Heh. Another funny sequence I just bumped into, in a different online Calix-Paws game.
T1 Land, pass
T2 Land, Chrome Mox, Calix, pass
T3 Land, Leyline Immersion on Calix. Tap him for 5 mana. Finale on X=2 to grab Paws. Use the last mana and cast Flickering Ward. Tutor Instill Energy, swing Paws with 'haste'. On combat damage, I cloned the Instill Energy over to Calix, then used it to untap him. Now I have another 5 mana to use.
(I did lose this game, because I got unlucky and drew 5 lands in a row off an Eidolon, but it was close.)
vast vale
@static spire Bit of an odd ask but what software do you use for reskinning existing cards in your playgroup???
static spire
<@254711002904526848> Bit of an odd ask but what software do you use for reskinn...
What do you mean? Like, what software am I using to generate the various reskins I've posted in #custom-cards ?
vast vale
That is correct
static spire
Ah! I'm using a local build of Cardconjurer, along with a bunch of tweaks, edits, and touchups in Krita (knockoff free photoshop)
In general I use Cardconjurer for the text and kerning, the raw image files for the frame, and Krita to stitch it all together
What are you trying to do/make?
static spire
I had an Avacyn game last night which went:
T1 Plateau, Crypt, Slicer. Swing and flip him.
T2 Dockside, Sword of Hearth and Home, equip.
Everyone conceded 😂
Slicer earned his slot. Ragavan, however, definitively has not.
I'll be cutting Ragavan out of Avacyn in favor of a basic land.
Also, I've picked up nearly all my Calix pieces! I'm excited to test that IRL soon.