#Daedalus's Deckbuilding Domain -- Help Appreciated!

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

static spire
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hm?

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We can dig until we hit one of several infinite mana combos, or until our reduction is for X>100, then cast Prosperity or whatever to kill everyone

knotty shard
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Ok that's more like it

static spire
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That's what I meant, sorry XD

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It tends to go "Wheel into Wheel into Chromatic Orrery into Prosperity for 43 into..."

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Plus there's some powerful mill effects stapled to X draw spells in there as well, like [[Drown in Dreams]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Sometimes we can discard Kozilek, and sometimes we just die to our own Prosperity, but that's worth it.

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Ending the game in a mutual draw is a victory in my books 😛

static spire
# knotty shard Ok that's more like it

Specifically, here's what I listed in my primer for wincons, combos, and powerful synergies (beyond "Aetherflux and/or forcing everyone to draw dead"):

  1. [[Displacer Kitten]] helps us maintain our colored mana sources while also generating massive mana with [[Palinchron]] or [[Peregrine Drake]].
  2. [[Cyclonic Rift]] + a wheel to wipe away all opposing threats
  3. [[Palinchron]] can go infinite alone, if we have 7 lands (or with some help from [[High Tide]])
  4. [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] is often a zero-mana kill in this deck, once we get wheeling, since we can dump all our rocks
  5. [[Alms Collector]] seems to oppose our main game-plan at first glance, but reducing all following spells by 3 is still absurd every time we cast a wheel... and it helps keep interaction OUT of our opponents' hands.
  6. [[Hullbreaker Horror]] is strong as a removal piece, but even stronger as an infinite combo with any two mana rocks once cost reduction is applied.
  7. [[Standstill]] is absolute gas in this deck: either WE pop it (and reduce all our spells by nine) or we wait for someone else to pop it and get three cards plus a reduction by six. Since we play at flash speed, we can be patient and wait to go off in response to our opponents' first spell after it triggers.
  8. [[Teferi, Time Raveler]] plus [[Displacer Kitten]] goes infinite with any mana rock as well (though only on our turn).
  9. Of course, [[Isochron Scepter]] + [[Dramatic Reversal]] generates infinite mana and storm, but both halves are also useful on their own!
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Oooh, I should include a mention of Smothering Tithe replacing our commander here

vast vale
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Do you have a thread yet?

balmy mantle
# vast vale Do you have a thread yet?

not yet, no. Wasn't sure how to handle it since its an official spoiler thats not coming out in paper for some time so I'm playing it safe. But I guess since a mod has a thread goin for a new legend i can post up a thread for it

vast vale
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That way we have all the mistakes in one place for mods, if action is required

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@balmy mantle so as long as is a official spoiler we are set

static spire
balmy mantle
static spire
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Also, this thread officially crossed 2000 replies today!

balmy mantle
knotty shard
vast vale
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To be fair daedalus is a very avid brewer

static spire
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I find it funny that this thread is longer than the "General Deckbuilding Q&A" one

vast vale
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Granted stagnation is one of the ways I justify deck is for parts xD

static spire
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The result of another one-hour deckbuilding challenge!

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Unctus vehicles, inspired by @zealous ferry and a local friend

zealous ferry
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Drake Haven is a nice inclusion. I keep forgetting about it

chrome dragon
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That name has made me nostalgic for Halo 3 and that alone is chef's kiss

knotty shard
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Looks fun

zealous ferry
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I'm glad I've inspired something other people are finding interesting 😅

static spire
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Minor update; I tested Goblin Engineer in Avacyn but he ended up being a little too "telegraphed". He never survived until summoning sickness wore off, in any of the games I played. Thus, I cut him to temporarily test OG [[Rule of Law]].

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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The other potential options for that slot were [[Settle the Wreckage]] (GOD, I want to Sunforger into that), [[Underworld Breach]] (just for value, though stuff like ROL shuts it down alas), or putting [[Rune-Tail]] back in.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Or [[Mage's Attendant]], I suppose. Blinkable thing which can create a self-sacrificing token to flip Avacyn.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Conclusions from my Avacyn games yesterday:

  1. Terror of the Peaks is a VERY solid card, and probably earned his slot, but he's a little redundant when Avacyn + Basilisk Collar is both more tutorable and more powerful. We shall see if he stays or not with more testing.
  2. People should not cast [[Possibility Storm]] against Avacyn. They handed me the game when I cascaded into Eidolon 😛
timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/34/possibility-storm

Possibility Storm <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Enchantment
Whenever a player casts a spell from their hand, that player exiles it, then exiles cards from the top of their library until they exile a card that shares a card type with it. That player may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then they put all cards exiled with Possibility Storm on the bottom of their library in a random order.

zealous ferry
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...

static spire
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I cast creatures and/or enchantments until I hit a Rule of Law effect and then I beat people to death

zealous ferry
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I have somehow never seen a possibility storm cast.

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Has it been the same person casting it?

static spire
static spire
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Hm. Should I run [[Warp World]] in my Wort deck?

timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/m10/163/warp-world

Warp World <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Sorcery
Each player shuffles all permanents they own into their library, then reveals that many cards from the top of their library. Each player puts all artifact, creature, and land cards revealed this way onto the battlefield, then does the same for enchantment cards, then puts all cards revealed this way that weren't put onto the battlefield on the bottom of their library.

static spire
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Or possibly [[Glimpse of Tomorrow]]?

timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/129/glimpse-of-tomorrow

Glimpse of Tomorrow

Sorcery
Suspend 3—manarmanar
Shuffle all permanents you own into your library, then reveal that many cards from the top of your library. Put all non-Aura permanent cards revealed this way onto the battlefield, then do the same for Aura cards, then put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.

static spire
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I have an extra slot, since [[Rootpath Purifier]] isn't really pulling her weight.

timber mesaBOT
chrome dragon
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isn't there a Warp World for self that came out in NEO?

static spire
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Is there?

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If that exists, I'm not familiar with it. Can you find it?

chrome dragon
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nevermind, I remembered [[collision of realms]] wrong

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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The closest I can find is [[Collision of Realms]], and that's quite different.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Jinx.

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Upsides to including Warp World:

  1. It's really funny.
  2. Since I often have 15+ lands and many tokens, I'm likely to flip into SOMETHING.
  3. I could re-trigger all my landfall effects if I hit them?
  4. It's not like I run any OTHER board wipes currently.
  5. I can do it twice with Wort.
  6. It shuffles Mountains back into my library for Valakut.
  7. It's really funny.

Downsides:

  1. If I have enough permanents to get value off this, I'm usually already winning.
  2. There's no guarantee I'll hit anything, and if I hit no landfall payoffs I tend to just lose off it?
chrome dragon
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go for it

static spire
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Oh, and the other downside is that I'll probably need to run some more token-makers as well.

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I mean, the other card which would probably take that slot is [[Underworld Breach]] 🤷‍♂️

timber mesaBOT
chrome dragon
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2 Warp Worlds can be (are) time consuming to resolve as well

rare mango
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[[over the top]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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oh no

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I didn't know that card existed

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Thank you Carson, you've turned every game into Judge's Tower now

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...but what if I cast that repeatedly with Underworld Breach, says the demon inside my soul, to turn it into [[Incoming]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Okay, here's what I'm thinking.

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Cut [[Retrieve]] add [[Underworld Breach]]. Cut [[Rootpath Purifier]], add [[Over the Top]]. Cut something, add [[Seed the Land]]. Cut a Forest, add [[Sheltered Thicket]] (to better fuel Valakut).

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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...also, cut something to add [[Thespian Stage]] (possibly followed by Vesuva)

timber mesaBOT
chrome dragon
static spire
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In terms of which is the hardest for ME to play, definitely Araumi. That deck is a (fun) nightmare.

chrome dragon
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Sounds messy…I love it

static spire
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I also cut [[Vivien's Stampede]] for [[Titania's Command]], since I want to tutor four nonbasic lands.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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...thank you for that suggestion @rare mango

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The first time I tested the new changes in an online game, I copied [[Over the Top]] with Wort.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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I flipped my entire deck into play, and hit Valakut, Ashaya, Ancient Greenwarden, and Dryad of the Ilysian Grove

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Did something like 300 damage instantly.

rare mango
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There ya go 🙂

chrome dragon
static spire
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I made a BUNCH of changes to Wort over the last two days, which I’ll upload in detail tomorrow — but the most critical is the removal of SIX basics in favor of Vesuva, Thespian Stage, and FOUR additional Mountain-Forest dual-lands (even the terrible ones like [[highland forest]])

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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While the additional “ETB tapped” lands are a pain, this makes my Valakut lines MUCH more stable

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And thus turns Valakut from a janky option to a lethal threat

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I also added both [[Titania’s Command]] and [[Hour of Promise]] — the ability to tutor a Valakut or Field of the Dead with the first copy, then tutor Vesuva with the second, was too strong to ignore

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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… every day I wish [[Primeval Titan]] were unbanned

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Well, not really — I saw what that card did in Standard, and pre-ban in EDH with Cradle — but dear GOD it would slap here

static spire
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Full set of changes --

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ADD:

Highland Forest / Sheltered Thicket / Wooded Ridgeline (these stabilize my Valakut lines, at the cost of ETBing tapped)
Dockside Extortionist (Eldritch Evolution a token into Dockside and Cobra is a HECK of a line)
Elvish Reclaimer (more ways to get Valakut and Field, then consistently trigger them!)
Hour of Promise / Titania's Command (first copy gets Valakut or Field, second gets Vesuva)
Thespian's Stage / Vesuva (you know what's better than one Valakut or Field? THREE of them!)
Underworld Breach (better than Retrieve, has some funny lines with stuff like Scapeshift)
Tunneling Geopede (I realized I should reconsider this, now that Awaken the Woods exists)

REMOVE:

4x Forest (swapping for dual-typed lands, although those dual-typed lands come in tapped)
Rootpath Purifier (ended up being disappointing, which saddens me, because I don't have enough BASIC tutors)
Vivien's Stampede (I never end up using it, honestly, and it was kinda winmore even when I did)
Divergent Transformations (cute, but never ended up being high impact)
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (I love having the "black" land in a green-red deck, but Vesuva was worth more)
Beast Within (I just never end up USING it, honestly, since this is essentially a land-storm deck)
Retrieve (I didn't realize it couldn't bring back instants or sorceries, so it's much less good than I thought)
Defense of the Heart (it's just too "generic good" and doesn't really synergize with my commander)

10 changes total, which is a HUGE number for a pretty stabilized and optimized deck. The goal here was to stabilize my Valakut lines, and increase the resilience to board wipes via having things like multiple copies of Field that can generate an army EVERY turn.

Just about the only card I want to include and haven't is Gaea's Cradle, because I think that might be a BIT too much power, heh.

glacial cradle
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I'm doing the math and something doesn't check out

static spire
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hm?

glacial cradle
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Oh

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You edited it

static spire
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Yeah sorry, I hit "enter" too quickly 😅

glacial cradle
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Lol

static spire
static spire
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Hmmmm. Should I run the meld Titania in Wort?

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On one hand, both of her "front" sides kinda suck. And she's very obviously telegraphed since she flips on upkeep, so people really want to kill her before she can meld.

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On the other hand, not only is the back side BONKERS, I did lose two very close games last night due to life loss and pinging from fliers (in circumstance where 6 or 8 more life would have won me the game), and while Titania's front sides both sorta suck, together they're a much more tutorable Splended Reclamation... 🤔

rare mango
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I don’t think she’s wort it tbh

static spire
rare mango
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Fr though, I think you’d have to work way too hard to force the backside

zealous ferry
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So, I run her in [[Soul of Windgrace]]

timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/220/soul-of-windgrace

Soul of Windgrace <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Cat Avatar
Whenever Soul of Windgrace enters the battlefield or attacks, you may put a land card from a graveyard onto the battlefield tapped under your control.
manag, Discard a land card: You gain 3 life.
mana1manar, Discard a land card: Draw a card.
mana2manab, Discard a land card: Soul of Windgrace gains indestructible until end of turn. Tap it.
5/4

zealous ferry
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I've gotten her to meld, but only because I was regularly discarding lands and sacrificing my own.

static spire
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I'm not too concerned about having 4 lands in graveyard, that's pretty trivial in this deck (it happens almost every game already, thanks to fetches and Harrow and Scapeshift and Elvish Reclaimer and Crop Rotation and...).

My concern is a bit more that 1) low card quality from both front sides, and 2) her getting killed on upkeep in response to the flip.

zealous ferry
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Yeah, there are reasons I run more things that can give hexproof or indestructible.

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Partially because of that

static spire
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...honestly I've always wanted to meld something, and never managed it. It's one of those things on my "Commander Bucket List".

zealous ferry
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And I've seen Wort land decks that more are about doing a big Valakut turn, and she's harder to time there.

static spire
zealous ferry
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I don't sadly. It's a person at my LGS

static spire
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When you next bump into this person, can you ask them for a link to their version?

zealous ferry
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I will try, he's there at most about 1/3 of the time I go.

static spire
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Speaking of Valakut

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I played 3 games with Wort last night, won one

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But I would have won those other two if very bad luck hadn't kneecapped me

zealous ferry
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I've been poking at goblins lands, but not with Wort. Mainly because I want to Goblin Guide with burgeoning.

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What happened?

rare mango
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Meld is a very cool mechanic

static spire
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Oh, both of those games I managed to get to 15 plus lands in play… then topdecked ten lands in a row. Worse, in one of those games I cast a copied Cathartic Reunion and discarded Moraug AND Ashaya… to draw into 6 lands. The whole table groaned.

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C’est la vie!

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The one game I DID win, though, I successfully got to Valakut everyone to death. So that was nice.

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I am seriously considering running [[Reincarnation]] in there though. Get back my best creatures when they inevitable get shot.

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
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That card is part of why I prefer exile...

rare mango
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Crossover with your question about good/bad luck in a game: played a Megatron game a month ago or so, t1 drew descent into avernus, then drew lands for the next 6 turns 😐

static spire
static spire
zealous ferry
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I go to a very weird store. [[Simulacrum]] gets played there

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Returning to the discussion about Titania, though

zealous ferry
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Yes

static spire
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I would love to have a second copy of [[Splendid Reclamation]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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But my only options are:

  1. Titania
  2. [[Mending of Dominaria]]
  3. [[World Shaper]]
timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
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Was going to ask about using those two

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World Shaper is less telegraphed but possibly more dangerous.

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If you can get her to flip and actually get her etb trigger she's highly worth it.

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I managed to [[scapeshift]] into her once and it was beautiful.

timber mesaBOT
rare mango
# static spire *youch*

Descent by itself did like 3/4 of the total damage in the game, but not having meaningful game actions to take was rough

static spire
static spire
zealous ferry
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Which is why I say he's dangerous.

static spire
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Like, people don't want to attack into him (for obvious reasons), and what sac outlets do I have?

rare mango
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I know one of my other cards was a vandalblast, which was funny

static spire
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Primal Growth, Natural Order, or Eldritch Evolution are really my only three sac outlets.

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Plus a few more if Ashaya is in play to make Shaper a land 😛

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Or I could Valakut her, I suppose, but that's a somewhat narrow possibility

zealous ferry
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[[Perilous Forays]] but it can be too expensive

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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I'm not running that because 1) basic count too low, 2) it's a pseudo-infinite combo which I wanted to avoid, 3) 5 mana is a LOT for something which only searches basics

zealous ferry
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It isn't basics

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It's basic land type

static spire
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...huh!

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I did not realize that, actually

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Might be worth the reconsideration, I suppose

zealous ferry
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So you can get triomes, etc.

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But yeah, 5 is a lot

static spire
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If it were a creature I'd run it for sure

zealous ferry
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But a lot of people don't know it's types when I play it in Maja, so it's not just you

static spire
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With that "land with a basic type" in mind, I'll try Perilous Forays over Underworld Breach

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My current "considering, but not QUITE earning a slot until I find a cut" list is:

Argoth, Sanctum of Nature + Titania, Voice of Gaea
Beast Within
Decimate
Life from the Loam
Seed the Land
The Mending of Dominaria
Underworld Breach
World Shaper
Wrenn and Six

static spire
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Okay, because I DO want to try messing around with Titania (mostly for memes) I've tried Titania & Argoth over Tunneling Geopede & Shatterskull Smashing

rare mango
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Glhf

static spire
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@proud fulcrum I'll just pull the discussion here

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I run a Wort landfall deck, which I adore

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But Cloudstone didn't end up making the cut

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RG

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(This is the channel where my rambling is quarantined)

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This is my Wort build

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I keep TRYING to shove Cloudstone in here

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But I don't really have much which gives me additional land drops per se

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I rely much more on instant/sorcery-based ramp spells

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The main reason I've considered Cloudstone here is so that I can reuse mountains (or Taigas) for Valakut

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I run 12 Mountains overall, so it's not THAT hard to get the ball rolling

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This deck is basically "secret commander partners, Moraug plus Ashaya"

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Since I can use any creature to-battlefield tutor to grab them both

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I mean, the deck functions fine without either Moraug or Ashaya

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But it's definitely fun going "Eldritch Evolution and copy it, grab those two, get an extra combat step, cast Skyshroud Claim and copy it, get four more extra combat steps..."

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Obviously we went in super different directions, but I'd love to see your Wort build

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There's some crossover and I'm always in the market for more draw spells

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We both run Xenagos, so more than ZERO crossover at least

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The current question for my list is whether I'm forcing Titania too hard

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On one hand, she's sorta mid, but the win-loss margin of this deck often DOES hinge on 2-3 life oddly often, and I DO need more things which can block big fliers for at least a turn

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I'm surprised to see Sokenzan in your list, since the tokens are colorless

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(I'd also highly recommend Jeska's Will and Delayed Blast Fireball, both are GREAT when copied)

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How has [[Change of Fortune]] treated you?

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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How does it usually play for you? Purely doubling your hand size?

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(I've also been a BIG fan of [[Seasons Past]] or [[Reap the Past]] over Wildest Dreams)

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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I'm slightly surprised to see Abundant Harvest here, did you find it good?

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I've personally preferred Return of the Wildspeaker slightly over Harmonize

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1 mana more, but trading the mana for instant-speed, sometimes draws a LOT more, and possible use as a BIG pump spell for the sudden out-of-nowhere combat wins

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It might with something like Stormkiln

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Though I'll fully acknowledge that I use it to "cheat" with something like Ashaya

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Even with just Wort, though, it's still 5 mana draw 6

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Comparable to Harmonize in terms of depth

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True, though the reduction in devotion can also be relevant (when considering that a lot of the best mana rituals only produce red)

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well YEAH, Shamanic is AMAZING lol

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I don't think anything will ever beat Shamanic, it's spectacular in every Wort deck lol

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Either way, I gotta run, but it's nice to meet another Wort enjoyer

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I might try Change of Fortune, it's an interesting idea especially with Regrowth effects

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Change of Fortune, double my hand size, cast Regrowth, quadruple my original hand size

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My last piece of commentary before I run

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I know that obviously you're not a lands deck

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BUT

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[[Crop Rotation]] into Cradle (and another land) is spectacular

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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Depending if you want to get "cute", you could also run something like [[Scavenger Grounds]] as an instant-speed piece of graveyard hate fetchable off Rotation

timber mesaBOT
static spire
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We're in the wrong colors to Cradle into Bog alas (though that trick always makes me laugh when I see it)

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I've got a Worldwake foil if you want to buy it off me lol

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Anyway, cya! Welcome to the server, btw

static spire
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Note to self

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After this discussion, I need to find two more cuts to Wort

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Added Summer Bloom, Change of Fortune, and Crucible of Worlds. Cut Dockside (to avoid easy loops with Cloudstone)

chrome dragon
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Retrieve has been entered twice in the considering section

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as has Wrenn and Seven

static spire
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I can still do Cloudstone loops with, like, Provisioner AND Cobra AND Ashaya AND a 1-drop creature

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But that's janky enough I wouldn't be frustrated about it

chrome dragon
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and life from the loam

static spire
chrome dragon
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ah gotcha

knotty shard
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I played @static spire's Vehicular Manslaughter deck yesterday, was pretty wild.

static spire
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That was one of my 1 hour deck builds so I’ve never actually piloted that one.

knotty shard
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I could have drawn my deck in multiple turns lol.

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But didn’t have a way to just win like that

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The funniest part was I was playing in the commander party event and I had Jin Gitaxias, and he gives all my creatures vigilance which was weirdly a nonbo lol

static spire
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Which Jin gives Vigilance?

knotty shard
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It's like a planechase deal

static spire
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Weird

rare mango
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I’d be interested in seeing the rest of those commanders

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Weird that blue is giving vigilance though 🤔

knotty shard
knotty shard
rare mango
knotty shard
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Play design team wanted something extra for blue in limited for combat, and blue has been able to tap and untap itself forever and if you think about it that's basically what vigilance is.

rare mango
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Is that written somewhere? Cuz part of it makes sense but part of it does not 🤔🤔

knotty shard
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Yeah check out maros most recent color pie update

static spire
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Returning to Wort, I tested Titania and I don't think she's good enough.

I also might cut [[Nissa Vital Force]] -- shocking, since that emblem tends to immediately let me win, but I generally can't defend against flyers at ALL -- and possibly Sylvan Library?

timber mesaBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/kld/163/nissa-vital-force

Nissa, Vital Force <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Planeswalker — Nissa
+1: Untap target land you control. Until your next turn, it becomes a 5/5 Elemental creature with haste. It's still a land.
−3: Return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.
−6: You get an emblem with "Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card."
Loyalty: 5

rare mango
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The emblem is ridiculous, but playing a walker for its ultimate is bad unless you have other ways to make that happen

static spire
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In this case it's not THAT bad, since the emblem is guaranteed if I can defend her for one turn

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I can generally defend her on the ground super easily

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It's the flying attackers that cause problems

static spire
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Huh, should I run [[Aerial Extortionist]] in Avacyn?

Draw, pseudo-blink for my own stuff, pseudo-taxing for opponents, another ETB to synergize with Elesh, and an effect which gets VERY good with Drannith or Rule of Law? That could actually be a very nice package overall.

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
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I could see it working. It's been really disruptive in my husband's Preston deck

feral briar
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@static spire am here even though I need to wake up in 4 hours

static spire
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Interesting!

static spire
feral briar
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I read that as monowhite for some reason and was immediately thrown off by kaya lmao

static spire
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I've considered swapping to Tevesh / Tymna as my commanders for superfriends

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But that feels like it would just get boring, always having access to the same walker as commander

feral briar
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I kinda like Professor Onyx. The card selection + incidental life gain seems is pretty appealing

static spire
#

Professor Onyx is neat, and she kills the table with Plumb the Forbidden if you have enough tokens

feral briar
#

And I really wish I had a way to break parity on Braids, I like that card a lot

feral briar
static spire
#

I run a similar combo in my Kroxa list, though!

feral briar
#

Has the flexibility of Damn done anything for you or has it mostly just been a wrath of god?

static spire
#

It's mostly been Wrath of God, though I have single-targeted it very rarely. But I can't cut it, because I have a gorgeous misprint of the card 😂

feral briar
static spire
#

Teysa is fantastic, and she's one of my favorite characters in the lore as well, so that's a bonus.

feral briar
feral briar
static spire
#

She's a badass lady lawyer antihero, who walks with a cane and yet kicks ass.

#

I fell in love with her when I read the original Ravnica books.

#

She's one of the best-written protagonists in Magic, IMO -- self-interested and ruthless but still a hero most of the time

feral briar
#

I’ll check it for sure when I get back into the lore. Orzhov has a really cool aesthetic so if thats paired with great characters that would be peak.

#

How has luminarch ascension run for you? Its currently in my list but hasn’t really come up. I remember a couple@of years back it drew a lot aggro

static spire
#

@heavy needle I'd love to hear more about your experiences with the new Kaya, actually -- or any other white-black walkers you've found to be great.

static spire
#

Given that the deck is 80% self-defense against attacking, I've found it to be very solid

#

(Plus I just love the card, and love the foil appearance)

feral briar
#

Hmm I’ll keep it around for a while and get a feel for it then.

Alright, so Ill try to test an eternal wanderer and a Szat, keep an eye on maybe running Onyx (maybe over Apex? 7 is a lot but self protection with death touch, pinging other walkers, and lifegain on the creature kill feels like everything I could want)

#

Thanks! I really should pass out now though

static spire
#

Szat is best when you need bodies to sacrifice, for what it's worth

#

Or when you have creatures to easily sacrifice for consistent draw

feral briar
#

Hm. Using him to feed his own minus isnt that good then? Thats mainly how itd play out here I think

heavy needle
#

Kaya is honestly a little too expensive to be worth it. 7 mana is a ton of mana and WWBB is a pretty hefty cost.
Her -3 is really powerful and you can do some silly things with it, but the +2 is mediocre at best and 0 is good but expensive for 7 mana.

But still the Kaya, Luxior + Chain Veil infinite is still a dream worth having, so it'll have a spot in my deck.

The Eternal Wanderer has been as good as I expected it to be, with the +1 being way stronger than I thought it would be.

Been wanting to try out ONE Vraska, since proliferating would help with multiple walkers in play, and she's pretty much a strict upgrade to Ob Nixilis Reignited, but she's real pricy right now and so is Mondrak :(.

static spire
#

Especially since you have a chunky flying blocker

#

I'm just saying he's best when you have a way to immediately profit, so you don't wait a turn cycle for major value

static spire
feral briar
#

Aah gotcha

static spire
#

I think she's be great in a deck like Atraxa where you have consistent proliferation.

#

But I didn't think she was super great in a superfriends deck in my testing 😦

#

The problem I had is that her +1 is sorta just... meh, her -2 isn't particularly "hard" removal, and her ult doesn't DO anything unless you have some other card to synergize with it

feral briar
#

Vraska is probably one of the reasons I even thought about building my list. Seems to do everything I want in it 🤭 but im also playing with poison counters

static spire
#

Yeah, she seems VERY good in any deck which manipulates poison counters

#

Lemme rephrase a little bit 😅

#

I didn't find her to be great in my deck

#

Where I can usually make any planeswalker good (or at least survive)

zealous ferry
#

The -2 doesn't feel like it's supposed to only be removal though since it doesn't have to be an opponent's creature

#

But yeah, she's not something that's going to be great in all superfriends decks.

heavy needle
#

Yeah that makes sense. I'm already running the BFZ ob nixilis, so this is just an upgrade imo. The -2 also kills indestructible creatures / tricky death triggers, which is pretty neat.

feral briar
#

It also makes it harder for someone to recurr the creature outside of spending additional resources.

static spire
feral briar
zealous ferry
#

Yeah, I view it as a layaway sac payment.

feral briar
#

could hit them with a stony silence though and now they need a way to put in the grave or back in their hands, which is what I was thinking originally

static spire
#

Definitely good with Stony Silence or Karn the Great Creator

#

My aesthetic abhorrence of Universes Beyond aside, I might need to find a slot for The One Ring in Avacyn now

zealous ferry
#

Because card draw?

feral briar
#

Thats some cool design

static spire
timber mesaBOT
static spire
static spire
#

Hm. Are there any other legendary artifacts I want to run in [[Kroxa Titan]]?

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/thb/221/kroxa-titan-of-deaths-hunger

Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger <:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Elder Giant
When Kroxa enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless it escaped.
Whenever Kroxa enters the battlefield or attacks, each opponent discards a card, then each opponent who didn't discard a nonland card this way loses 3 life.
Escape—manabmanabmanarmanar, Exile five other cards from your graveyard. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its escape cost.)
6/6

static spire
#

In order to better leverage the board wipe on [[Mount Doom]]

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

Ugins Nexus would be a neat lil combo

#

Clear the path and take an extra turn

static spire
#

I'll definitely be running [[The One Ring]] there (flavor win!) but I was also considering [[Mask of Griselbrand]], [[The Celestus]], [[Hazoret's Monument]], or [[Eye of Vecna]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

I'm currently on one, which is [[Bolas's Citadel]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Could potentially screw around with [[Azor's Gateway]] as well, I suppose

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/rix/176/azors-gateway-sanctum-of-the-sun

Azor's Gateway <:mana2:292901509060886528>

Legendary Artifact
mana1, manat: Draw a card, then exile a card from your hand. If cards with five or more different mana values are exiled with Azor's Gateway, you gain 5 life, untap Azor's Gateway, and transform it.

Sanctum of the Sun
Legendary Land
(Transforms from Azor's Gateway.)
manat: Add X mana of any one color, where X is your life total.
As soon as Jace laid eyes on the great sphinx's chamber, the shards of memory began sliding into place.

glacial cradle
#

Celestus and Monument seem like excellent picks

#

Fill the graveyard, ramp, and can be thrown away.

The difficulty with the ring and citadel is that throwing them away hurts real bad.

static spire
#

Sometimes you need a board wipe more I suppose

zealous ferry
#

Mask of Griselbrand is fun, but you really want the creature to die instead of that just happening

static spire
#

Note to self

#

Put Ulvenwald Hydra in here? To attack people with Vesuva

feral briar
#

Ulvenwald Hydra is such an underrated creature

glacial cradle
#

[[Ulvenwald Hydra]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Some minor swaps to Wort -- remove Underworld Breach, Shatterskull Smashing, and Nissa Vital Force; add Explore, Valakut Awakening, Summer Bloom.

glacial cradle
#

I feel like I see Underworld Breach in every list of changes to that deck

static spire
#

It keeps going in and out

#

Nissa's ult is so ludicrously good, I'm loathe to cut her

#

But honestly I can't defend her in the air at ALL

glacial cradle
#

[[Nissa, Vital Force]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/kld/163/nissa-vital-force

Nissa, Vital Force <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Planeswalker — Nissa
+1: Untap target land you control. Until your next turn, it becomes a 5/5 Elemental creature with haste. It's still a land.
−3: Return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.
−6: You get an emblem with "Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card."
Loyalty: 5

static spire
#

all it takes is one flier, and she sits dead in my hand

glacial cradle
#

Mmmm, interesting

static spire
#

I'm hoping that, with the addition of [[Summer Bloom]], I can someday play Amulet Bloom in EDH

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Since I'm running Gruul Turf and all the variants of Amulet of Vigor (plus Cobra and Provisioner)

#

Or cast and copy it after drawing a bunch of cards and/or having Ramunap Excavator

glacial cradle
#

Why don't you throw in Amulet Titan as well /s

feral briar
#

Sylvan primordial would go great on an edh amulet titan build :p

static spire
glacial cradle
#

This convo has reminded me that I'm annoyed [[Tiller Engine]] is 2 mana

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Why?

glacial cradle
#

I have a keruga companion gates deck.

zealous ferry
#

That would do it!

glacial cradle
#

It's an issue for me specifically

static spire
timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
#

I am not, but I should be

static spire
#

Poor man's Amulet of Vigor

glacial cradle
#

Oooh, it can also repeatedly untap Baldur's gate when that pops off. Cool stuff.

static spire
#

Yeah, it's a funny card. Super fragile, though -- you'll get to storm off with it a few times, then opponents will go out of their way to pop that tiny 1/1 P/T

glacial cradle
#

Fragile is good, honestly. I worry about making mazes end wins too fast/difficult to interact with

static spire
#

Yeah, it's a fair concern. My landfall deck is focused on Valakut and Field of the Dead, which don't directly win the game, and I still have that same concern

glacial cradle
#

I really need to grab a Field. That deck is too one trick rn, I need another wincon.

feral briar
#

@static spire You haven’t had too many issues with people removing [[Out of Time]]? I kinda like it for ixhel cause I can probably proliferate the time counters lmao

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

(plus there's infinite combos with sacrificing and recurring Out of Time for the untap effect

feral briar
#

Hmm okay. Ill deff try to get one and try it out. Im also thinking of running conduit of worlds so even if it dies as long as i dont die that round theres a couple of ways to replay it

static spire
#

Hello again, I'm back for more tuning.

#

I want to tweak my Teysa deck further, to incorporate some combination of the following:

Battle Angels of Tyr
Eldrazi Monument
Hanweir Militia Captain
Ministrant of Obligation
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Orzhov Enforcer
Recruiter of the Guard
Seraph of the Scales

#

But cuts are super hard at this point. Help?

zealous ferry
#

What are those each bringing?

knotty shard
#

(unrelated, I also built a less extreme version of daed's oily Heliod deck, will report back Friday)

static spire
#

Battle Angels of Tyr: Consistent damage output, cool combat triggers, plus two extra tokens to sac and exile something each turn (by sacrificing one additional thing).

Eldrazi Monument: It's honestly just one of my favorite cards ever, and the indestructibility lets my army build up even when chump-blocking.

Hanweir Militia Captain, Seraph of the Scales, Ministrant of Obligation, Orzhov Enforcer: Production of white-black tokens is the best kind of token production (since they're just fantastic with Teysa's ability and/or token doublers). Plus these are all 2-to-3-cmc human to be sacrificed to Pyre of Heroes, since I've got a LOT of super strong humans at 3 and particularly 4 mana.

Nykthos: Mana?

Recruiter of the Guard: Beyond being generally good, it fetches Arena Rector and I can then sacrifice Teysa-Recruiter-Rector to instantly grab a free planeswalker.

feral briar
#

God Battle Angels of Tyr seems so dope

knotty shard
#

It has been for me

static spire
#

Also, Seraph of the Scales and Eldrazi Monument also have beautiful arts in foil.

#

Which makes me want to run them.

static spire
feral briar
#

I havent seen the rest yet, but eldrazi monument I think would run great

zealous ferry
#

I mean I was reading 😅

static spire
#

[[Battle Angels of Tyr]], [[Eldrazi Monument]], [[Seraph of the Scales]], [[Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx]], [[Recruiter of the Guard]].

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/9/battle-angels-of-tyr

Battle Angels of Tyr <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Creature — Angel Knight
Flying, myriad
Whenever Battle Angels of Tyr deals combat damage to a player, draw a card if that player has more cards in hand than each other player. Then you create a Treasure token if that player controls more lands than each other player. Then you gain 3 life if that player has more life than each other player.
4/4

feral briar
#

Nykthos is probably fine, colorless at worst doesnt seem too bad

static spire
feral briar
#

Seraph I don’t like as much, im not a huge fan of afterlife

static spire
feral briar
#

Oh the art is super sweet, no doubt

zealous ferry
#

I don't like spirit sister's call here as much.

static spire
#

and since my commander is [[Teysa, Orzhov Scion]], I can sacrifice her and two things to exile a creature, get 2 white-black tokens and a white token, then sacrifice THOSE to exile another thing, and still get two white tokens out of the exchange. It's efficient to be sure.

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Recruiter may make a good replacement?

feral briar
#

Yeah but its four mana and the base effects aren’t really doing much imo :c

static spire
zealous ferry
#

I am up for being wrong

feral briar
#

I feel like there has to be a way to do something similar for less mana

#

Or with a better face body

static spire
#

I could cut [[Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet]] and [[Attrition]] back out again, that machine-gun is pretty mean, but... dammit, I want to use my foil Attrition, the deck was at least half built to use it 😂

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

[[Ministrant of Obligation]] does a similar trick for 1 mana less, but can't fly (and isn't black, so I lose out on one extra token from that)

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

(on the other hand, it's a 3-cost human for [[Pyre of Heroes]])

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

All the inklings at least are all w/b

static spire
zealous ferry
#

Sadly

static spire
#

But MAN, if Inkshield protected my planeswalkers... 👀

zealous ferry
#

[[Tzat's will]]?

timber mesaBOT
#

No card found for “Tzat's will”

static spire
zealous ferry
#

It just had been meh for some reason for me. And I know I spelled that wrong...

static spire
#

...you know, as a side question, I HAVE been needing better protection against flyers in Wort. Maybe Eldrazi Monument should live there.

#

I've found it to usually be a blow-out, honestly

#

Very often eat three commanders, then get 3-5 tokens too?

#

This is why the cuts are hard, pretty much every card has won me at least one game 😂

zealous ferry
#

This may just be a side effect of my lgs

static spire
#

Maybe Professor Onyx might be the cut. She's consistently been the worst of my walkers.

#

I find it funny that she can kill all opponents via 20 tokens plus Plumb the Forbidden, but...

#

So Kalitas, Attrition, and Professor Onyx on the short-list for cuts. I'll think on it further.

#

Which of the additions seems best?

zealous ferry
#

Angels of Tyr and recruiter feels like two

static spire
#

I was also — weirdly — thinking about cutting Bitterblossom

#

I know, I know… but it’s really slow in a four player format.

zealous ferry
#

I can see that

static spire
#

If I don’t drop it T2, it’s not really worth dropping

#

But black flying tokens are very rare

#

Bitterblossom is just starting to feel like one of those cards I’m running because “everyone runs that, you gotta”

zealous ferry
#

Have you ever tried [[Liesa|Mid]] in this deck?

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Or no because Kalitas

static spire
#

Bitterblossom is starting to feel like Sad Robot, which low key raises my hackles during card evaluation. Why should I trust other people’s analysis over my own experiences, especially when that hype is based on historical dominance rather than card text?

Most Magic players are bad at deckbuilding, in full honesty.

zealous ferry
#

I know that too well. 😅

static spire
#

Kalitas is definitely a better copy of the stax effect for me

zealous ferry
#

Also it's too bad [[Ria Ivor]] doesn't work here as well since she wants double strikers

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/one/214/ria-ivor-bane-of-bladehold

Ria Ivor, Bane of Bladehold <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Knight
Battle cry (Whenever this creature attacks, each other attacking creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.)
At the beginning of combat on your turn, the next time target creature would deal combat damage to one or more players this combat, prevent that damage. If damage is prevented this way, create that many 1/1 colorless Phyrexian Mite artifact creature tokens with toxic 1 and "This creature can't block."
3/4

zealous ferry
#

And mites are colorless (bad thing). I'm just trying to think through angles.

#

Am i wrong or does [[Pyre of Heros]] just have 3 creatures it can sacrifice to find 3 others

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

Assuming Kalitas is cut

#

Oh I guess party members

feral briar
#

Have you thought about [[edgar charmed groom]] instead of scales? Slower but w/b and turns into a bw bitter blossom

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/vow/236/edgar-charmed-groom-edgar-markovs-coffin

Edgar, Charmed Groom <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Vampire Noble
Other Vampires you control get +1/+1.
When Edgar, Charmed Groom dies, return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control.
"Our kind has taken my gift for granted. It is time to correct that folly."
4/4

Edgar Markov's Coffin
Legendary Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 white and black Vampire creature token with lifelink and put a bloodline counter on Edgar Markov's Coffin. Then if there are three or more bloodline counters on it, remove those counters and transform it.

zealous ferry
#

I forgot he made wb vampires

knotty shard
#

Made me think of daed

zealous ferry
#

I love that card. I think people are finally catching on though.

static spire
#

No idea how people don't recognize it.

#

It's fantastic tempo every turn, with card advantage.

#

The price is slowly going up, though, which implies that it's entering public awareness.

#

Speaking of Avacyn, I want to tentatively add [[Halvar God of Battle]] and/or [[Vanquish the Horse]] at some point.

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/khm/15/halvar-god-of-battle-sword-of-the-realms

Halvar, God of Battle <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — God
Creatures you control that are enchanted or equipped have double strike.
At the beginning of each combat, you may attach target Aura or Equipment attached to a creature you control to target creature you control.
4/4

Sword of the Realms mana1manaw
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+0 and has vigilance.
Whenever equipped creature dies, return it to its owner's hand.
Equip mana1manaw
It cuts through the Cosmos itself, carving new Omenpaths between the realms.

static spire
#

...Vanquish the HORDE 😭

#

So that's 3 total cuts I want to make. Damn.

#

For now, testing Vanquish the Horde over Spectacular Showdown, maybe?

feral briar
#

I like the bird, but grasp of fate seems better to me 🤔

#

Maybe I’ll grab one anyways jic

knotty shard
#

Every time you deal damage is a doozy

#

I once gave him double strike and it was hella gross.

feral briar
#

Dont think ill be able to try them today but grabbed an out of time and aerial extortionist

knotty shard
#

I grabbed like 40 Out of Times for 50 cents each

#

I'm hoping it pays off lol

feral briar
#

Ok nvm got them before the event started and already in the deck

feral briar
#

1 and 4.5

#

Respectively

static spire
timber mesaBOT
static spire
zealous ferry
feral briar
#

Yeah

zealous ferry
#

Being able to re-buy ETBs or change X's in spells can be huge.

feral briar
#

I believe currently the extortionist is my only ETB 😂

#

It could reset one of my walkers at worst, but I do think it might work fine in my list

zealous ferry
#

I'm just saying the flexibility is nice. Especially since you can flicker it to save something, etc.

static spire
#

Ahahahahahahaha

#

I'll share more details tomorrow

#

but I got to kill the table on T3 with no attacking creatures except for Mother of Runes herself today

#

120 damage from my Avacyn deck, done by Mother of Runes and nobody else, on turn 3!

#

I'll leave y'all to puzzle out how that happened. I only cast 4 spells total

feral briar
#

👀

zealous ferry
#

I'm definitely mystified.

static spire
#

I beat everyone to death with Mother of Runes, carrying Sword of Hearth and Home, blinking Dockside and cheating out extra combat effects 😂

#

On another topics, for bookkeeping purposes --

  1. I want to add Sword of Forge and Frontier and Cloudshift to Avacyn, so that'll need some cuts. Probably removing Lion Sash for the Sword, I'm never happy to draw it and I never tutor it. Could cut Brave the Elements, but I love that card... Clever Concealment is another potential add, but I'm leaning towards no, since I don't want to phase out my stax pieces.

  2. Teysa is adding the new Archangel Elspeth and Recruiter of the Guard, and cutting Welcoming Vampire (low impact in practice) and Professor Onyx (just felt overcosted, and was anticlimactic winning with this and Plumb the Forbidden)

feral briar
#

I forgot i was missing to look something up when I got home

zealous ferry
#

The Elspeth fits your Teysa deck well

static spire
#

is [[archangel espeth]] in Scryfall yet?

timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
#

I'm gonna guess yes.

static spire
#

It's not on Moxfield yet, though, so I can't add it to the decklist yet 😦

glacial cradle
#

Lol

zealous ferry
#

😆

static spire
#

Updates continue as new cards get spoiled...

[[Wrenn and Realmbreaker]], [[Glasspool Mimic]], [[Change of Plans]] into Roalesk; removing [[Marwyn]], [[Silkwrap]], [[Vivien, Monster Advocate]].

This should open some new combo lines with Wren's emblem, particularly any counter-based mana generator plus a clone infinitely recast from GY via Wren's emblem 👀

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/217/wrenn-and-realmbreaker

Wrenn and Realmbreaker <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Planeswalker — Wrenn
Lands you control have "manat: Add one mana of any color."
+1: Up to one target land you control becomes a 3/3 Elemental creature with vigilance, hexproof, and haste until your next turn. It's still a land.
−2: Mill three cards. You may put a permanent card from among the milled cards into your hand.
−7: You get an emblem with "You may play lands and cast permanent spells from your graveyard."
Loyalty: 4

#

https://scryfall.com/card/znr/60/glasspool-mimic-glasspool-shore

Glasspool Mimic <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Shapeshifter Rogue
You may have Glasspool Mimic enter the battlefield as a copy of a creature you control, except it's a Shapeshifter Rogue in addition to its other types.
"When I touched the Glasspool, I tasted infinite possibility." —Ashen Wal, Akoum Expeditionary House
0/0

Glasspool Shore
Land
Glasspool Shore enters the battlefield tapped.
manat: Add manau.
"Past and possibility come together in the vastness of infinite reflection." —Ashen Wal, Akoum Expeditionary House

#

https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/24/change-of-plans

Change of Plans <:manax:292901509082120202><:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Each of X target creatures you control connive. You may have any number of them phase out. (To have a creature connive, draw a card, then discard a card. If you discarded a nonland card, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature. Treat phased-out permanents and anything attached to them as though they don't exist until their controller's next turn.)

#

https://scryfall.com/card/iko/175/vivien-monsters-advocate

Vivien, Monsters' Advocate <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Planeswalker — Vivien
You may look at the top card of your library any time.
You may cast creature spells from the top of your library.
+1: Create a 3/3 green Beast creature token. Put your choice of a vigilance counter, a reach counter, or a trample counter on it.
−2: When you cast your next creature spell this turn, search your library for a creature card with lesser mana value, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
Loyalty: 3

static spire
#

Should also help give me more resilience against board wipes if necessary 🙂

#

Not Silkwrap, I mean [[Silkguard]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Next task: finding two cuts in Kroxa for Black Market Connections & The One Ring

#

...Help? 😭

#

For now, it'll probably be Shadowheart and... Anvil of Bogardan, maybe?

#

Might as well cut Anger and add [[Cabal Ritual]] while I'm at it

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

Oooooooh i like the wrenn

#

I had no idea [[florian voldaren]] existed

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mid/223/florian-voldaren-scion

Florian, Voldaren Scion <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Vampire Noble
First strike
At the beginning of your postcombat main phase, look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the total amount of life your opponents lost this turn. Exile one of those cards and put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may play the exiled card this turn.
3/3

feral briar
#

[[shadowheart]]

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

[[anvil of bogardan]]

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
static spire
static spire
#

Couple things!

#

First, I'm considering swapping my Teysa superfriends list to instead become [[Brimaz, Blight of Oreskos]] -- but that would be a HUGE set of changes, and I'm trying to figure out if any planeswalkers really have strong synergy with this new oily kitty.

(I also just love Teysa as a character, which makes this choice hard.)

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/moc/2/brimaz-blight-of-oreskos

Brimaz, Blight of Oreskos <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Cat
Whenever you cast a Phyrexian creature or artifact creature spell, incubate X, where X is that spell's mana value. (Create an Incubator token with X +1/+1 counters on it and "2: Transform this artifact." It transforms into a 0/0 Phyrexian artifact creature.)
At the beginning of each end step, if a Phyrexian died under your control this turn, proliferate.
3/4

static spire
timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Third, I really need to give Roalesk a solid rebuild. The deck is SUPER fun when it works right, but it tends to get mana screwed badly, and fall apart if my turn-3 play gets killed.

#

I would love thoughts and insight on all three of these topics!

feral briar
#

What would be the upside of oil cat vs teysa? It really seems like a whole new deck but one I don’t get 😔

zealous ferry
#

Teysa to Brimaz feels like it would take a lot of work.

#

Like, barely see how they overlap levels.

static spire
zealous ferry
#

I understand with the proliferate for the planeswalkers. But, what you're casting other than planeswalkers is what I'd expect would change

static spire
#

But Teysa has gotten so tuned over time that it would essentially be a full rebuild

zealous ferry
#

I agree there, that it would need the rebuild to get there.

feral briar
#

Hmmm the blockers and proli is neat, but brimaz also really wants to be casting really specific things and asking you to pay 2 to actually make them blockers

zealous ferry
#

Brimaz has really interesting synergies for me with living weapons and modular creatures

feral briar
#

I kinda see him more as an orzhov glissa traitor than a superfriends commander

zealous ferry
#

Like cat/living weapons

zealous ferry
#

I'm sorry. I think you can do it. I have a migraine...

knotty shard
#

I've always been a proponent that if you need Maskwood Nexus either the creature type you are building is not supported enough to have a good deck in edh, or you are trying to do too much in a single deck.

glacial cradle
#

I run Maskwood in [[Evelyn]], cuz I steal a lot of enemy creatures and I want them to play into my synergies

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/snc/184/evelyn-the-covetous

Evelyn, the Covetous <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaub:292901509056692224><:manab:292901508872273920><:manabr:292901508939382784>

Legendary Creature — Vampire Rogue
Flash
Whenever Evelyn, the Covetous or another Vampire enters the battlefield under your control, exile the top card of each player's library with a collection counter on it.
Once each turn, you may play a card from exile with a collection counter on it if it was exiled by an ability you controlled, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast it.
2/5

static spire
glacial cradle
#

(Also party decks)

#

(for obvious reasons)

static spire
#

I'm also low-key messing with a [[Tura Kennerüd, Skyknight]] convoke list

timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
#

Huh

static spire
#

Because I really want to use [[Invasion of Segovia]] in a deck, that card tickles me

timber mesaBOT
#

No card found for “Invasion of Segovia”

static spire
#

sigh

#

Does anyone have better ideas for a white-blue or red-blue deck that can use Invasion of Segovia?

knotty shard
#

Seems good in [[the locust god]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

I had a Locust God deck so long ago

#

Took it apart from the one-two punch of "Paradox Engine banned, Sage of the Falls printed"

#

Maybe I should look back at it. Any other thoughts on decks where it could be good?

knotty shard
#

My first thought was that UB vampire guy that cares about krakens and serpents and such

#

Runo

#

But he's not the colors you wanted

static spire
#

Yeah, I already have a fun blue-black deck.

#

...could maybe try [[Kari Zev and Baral]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/218/baral-and-kari-zev

Baral and Kari Zev <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Human
First strike, menace
Whenever you cast your first instant or sorcery spell each turn, you may cast a spell with lesser mana value that shares a card type with it from your hand without paying its mana cost. If you don't, create First Mate Ragavan, a legendary 2/1 red Monkey Pirate creature token. It gains haste until end of
turn.
2/4

static spire
#

Does [[Mirror Box]] apply to tokens?

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

👀

knotty shard
#

Sure

static spire
#

Are there any good ways to draw a card off a token entering, apart from [[Kindred Discovery]]?

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Hm. Follow-up question: how would I get cheap instants and sorceries from GY back to hand repeatably?

knotty shard
#

Usually it's done by blinking stuff like Archaeomancer with kitten or such

static spire
static spire
#

I would want to run Kitten in there anyway, to untap mana rocks

knotty shard
#

Probably.

#

Skullclamp for the monkey (rip)

static spire
#

My concern is running out of spells I want to cast from hand, very fast

static spire
#

"Here, Ragavan, I bought you a special mascot hat!"

#

squelch

#

"Now moving on to Ragavan number 44..."

knotty shard
#

B&K can probably use Future Sight effects too

#

Casting from top of library is effectively a cantrip on every spell

static spire
knotty shard
#

When you cast the top spell, the next one is available

static spire
#

Ah, gotcha.

#

I have no idea how to balance the curve of this deck to ensure I have cheaper spells in hand to cast

#

It seems like it would tilt towards running a lot of 2-cost and 1-cost instants?

#

I've never built something quite like this before, it's stumping me a little

knotty shard
#

Yeah they are odd because they are also require to share a card type

#

So my guess is you'd want to build them all-in for one of the two

#

Probably instants, if you want to do the schtick on other people's turn too

static spire
#

oooh

#

Time Warp, cast Reiterate from hand?

#

Or something like Frantic Search, cast Narset's Reversal from hand, bounce Frantic Search?

knotty shard
#

Yeah. Remand too

static spire
#

any 1-cost sorcery could free-cast [[Ancestral Visions]] or [[Wheel of Fate]]...

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/52/ancestral-vision

Ancestral Vision

Sorcery
Suspend 4—manau (Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay manau and exile it with four time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.)
Target player draws three cards.

#

https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/198/wheel-of-fate

Wheel of Fate

Sorcery
Suspend 4—mana1manar (Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay mana1manar and exile it with four time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.)
Each player discards their hand, then draws seven cards.

zealous ferry
#

Izzet at least gets you third path iconoclast for "until you can cast locust god"

feral briar
static spire
zealous ferry
#

Would [[Neera]] work? (resetting using the kitten bounces)

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/288/neera-wild-mage

Neera, Wild Mage <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Human Elf Shaman
Whenever you cast a spell, you may put it on the bottom of its owner's library. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonland card. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all revealed cards not cast this way on the bottom of your library in a random order. This ability triggers only once each turn.
2/7

zealous ferry
#

and [[thousand year storm]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

@obsidian sorrel introduced me to the idea of [[Hoarding Broodlord]] plus [[Saw in Half]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

And while I could run that in several decks, I've realized that it opens up a NUTTY combo line in Araumi.

#

Hoarding Broodlord --> Saw in Half --> exile Entomb and Reanimate.

Put Scholar of the Ages in graveyard, Reanimate it for zero with convoke. (Or just cross into a Razaketh line.)

Recur Saw in Half and Reanimate back to hand.

Reanimate the Hoarding Broodlord.

Fetch Sacrifice, cast Sacrifice for zero with convoke, go infinite with the Scholar/Saw/Ritual line.

This is a kill for manab, 15 life, and two untapped creatures, once I reanimate Broodlord. I could also lose zero life by doing this with Persist instead of Reanimate, if I have one additional untapped creature.

feral briar
#

[[scholar of the ages]]

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

Whats the ritual?

static spire
#

[[Sacrifice]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Or [[Songs of the Damned]] or [[Culling the Weak]]

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

Wait, whats the out then? 🤔

#

Just inf (i think) tokens?

obsidian sorrel
#

You get infinite mana as well this way. Then you can just pull the Saw on the dragon whenever you please to pull out whatever win you want

feral briar
#

Hmmm. I might run this on Tasi. Scholar and Sacrifice seem like the weakest pieces of the combo, but 3/4 mana to get back two inst/sorcs or 2 mana for 7 mana in the worst cases doesn’t seem super bad

obsidian sorrel
#

If you're in GB, you open yourself up to pull out the Chain of Smog/Witherbloom Apprentice combo. That requires 8 mana and 3 creatures on the board to start with, minus 1 mana for each additional creature

feral briar
#

Mmmm maybe. But smog and apprentice fit less. I imagine after establishing that loop I will probably grab like Hullbreacher or Dusk Mangler

static spire
feral briar
#

Jesus

obsidian sorrel
#

Yea its a real nutty card

static spire
#

You may need to tailor the line to your own build! But I'm realizing that Hoarding --> Saw lets you "bootstrap" into just about any other combo you want.

obsidian sorrel
#

It also makes for an easy line into Food Chain

#

Hell, you can convoke your food chain because why the hell not XD

feral briar
obsidian sorrel
#

If you run enough ETB effects, it probably is

feral briar
#

I havent built the list yet so I dunno. Its mainly going to be a controlish reanimator deck with more 7 drops than I should probably run

obsidian sorrel
#

I myself am considering going with Dinah and Zimone, with Intruder Alarm shenanigans

#

That opens me up to even more stupid combos

feral briar
#

But somewhat more on topic @static spire this seems like it would be a good fit for your deck then

static spire
#

Oh yes, but now I need to find a cut 😭

obsidian sorrel
#

Gib list

static spire
#

Actually, I'll post several lists with new MOM cards:

Teysa needs 3 cuts: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3Vm_imDyY0ic0T-O14lbdw
Roalesk needs 3 cuts (and probably a full rebuild): https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gE66z099oEOHY1Efdtw3RQ
Avacyn needs 2 cuts: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Vpiz7R8Rfk-0J7yX0AUQtA
Araumi needs 1 cut (for the dragon): https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Cx0f3NJkDU203YLF6K3kqQ

A deck created using Moxfield.
Multiversal Mafia: Teysa EDH - Commander (Teysa, Orzhov Scion)

A deck created using the deck building website, Moxfield.

A deck created using Moxfield.
Lesk is More: Roalesk EDH - Commander (Roalesk, Apex Hybrid)

Deck restrictions: no "easy" infinite combos (ie, no Sage of Hours and friends), and every single card in the deck must interact with counters in some manner. No exceptions!

Here's some synergies I've found so far! Cards in the sideboard are not included for budget reasons, until I can trade to...

A deck created using Moxfield.
Judgment Day: Avacyn the Purifier EDH [PRIMER] - Commander (Archang...

Avacyn's Creed

On Innistrad, the night was always dark and full of terrors. Humanity struggled against the monstrous forces that preyed on them, but were fighting a losing battle. However, with the help of the archangel Avacyn, they began to turn the tide and survive.

But now, due to the influe...

A deck created using Moxfield.
To Drown the World in Death: Araumi EDH [PRIMER] - Commander (Araum...

What do you get when you cross reanimator, aristocrats, spellslinger, and dredge? You get THIS monstrosity!

This deck does not depend on Araumi to function (for the most part), but she makes the deck play very very smoothly if she sticks around on ba...

feral briar
#

Cut a land SheldonPogChamp

obsidian sorrel
#

Hmm, for Araumi, I'd say Glimpse?

static spire
obsidian sorrel
#

Can't really think of other options tbh XD

feral briar
#

Is there a line for the brainfreeze?

static spire
feral briar
#

Whats ludicrously good about it? 🤔 I rarely if ever see it played outside of cEDH and that’s basically just for the combo

static spire
#

Also, I may cut [[Founding the Third Path]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/50/founding-the-third-path

Founding the Third Path <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Enchantment — Saga
Read ahead (Choose a chapter and start with that many lore counters. Add one after your draw step. Skipped chapters don't trigger. Sacrifice after III.)
I — You may cast an instant or sorcery spell with mana value 1 or 2 from your hand without paying its mana cost.
II — Target player mills four cards.
III — Exile target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard. Copy it. You may cast the copy.

static spire
#

I hate cutting self-mill spells, but... 🤷‍♂️ Not many good options for cuts, the list is very tight.

feral briar
#

Either way if you need it I kinda feel like founding might be the “worst” card

#

Oh

#

Lmao

static spire
#

Got any thoughts on the other lists I need cutting help with? 😂

#

Darkblast is another potential cut in Araumi.

feral briar
#

Ive never been a darkblast stan, but it will mill you more and can snipe small things/fix trades

#

I can give the other lists a look after dinner

glacial cradle
#

[[Darkblast]]

timber mesaBOT
glacial cradle
#

huh

static spire
#

I love the fact that I can go “Upkeep cast Darkblast, dredge Darkblast, cast it again during main phase” to mill 3 and kill a 2-toughness creature

#

Huh

#

It’s also possible to pull off the Hoarding Broodlord line at instant speed, using [[Wake the Dead]]

timber mesaBOT
obsidian sorrel
#

How are you flashing in the Scholar then?

static spire
obsidian sorrel
#

Ye but...you still need to get it in your GY first. The dragon loop doesnt work that way, right?

#

Unless of course you mean having both of them in your GY, and then wakeing them both

static spire
#

You cast Entomb to PUT it into graveyard

obsidian sorrel
#

Yes but then you're still on the first part of the loop on sorcery speed

static spire
timber mesaBOT
obsidian sorrel
#

Yes but you said the dragon fetches entomb no?

feral briar
#

I think the idea is to actually do the loop instant. The dragon comes in say sorcery speed, and then you hold the combo to do instant

feral briar
#

@static spire

Teysa:
I don't really love Pile On tbh. I feel like there's better creature removal that doesn't depend on your boardstate and that you're already a token deck so if you can tap them to cast it you can probably just kill walkers.
I'd probably swap Spirit-Sister for toldova, or Sorin

Roalesk:
See double seems like it could be swapped easily for either Quasidpublicate or replication technique
I might take out Toothy for Tribute to the World Tree
Kami of Whispered Hopes seems like an easy 1-1 for Heronblade Elite unless you want both effects

static spire
feral briar
#

What about Pir then? They have the benefit of buffing all counters, but same cost and doesn't produce mana

static spire
#

For Teysa, I just love any form of zero-mana removal, but you may be right. I could also cut Swords for it.

feral briar
#

Swords could be good, I just worry about the requirement of having creatures vs just having a single mana. If you don't think thats an issue then I'd go for it, no life gain 😏

static spire
#

Okay, to summarize current MOM-related additions here (plus a few other tweaks):

KROXA (ready to test):

ADD Black Market Connections, The One Ring, Mount Doom, Infernal Sovereign, Invasion of Kaldheim, Sheoldred, Imperial Seal, Mountain;
CUT Anger, Shadowheart, Anvil of Bogardan, Dragonskull Summit, Mindslicer, Sensei's Divining Top, Village Rites, Smoldering Marsh.
(I've also been oscillating back and forth re: Zurzoth or Morbid Opportunist here, stay tuned.)

ARAUMI:

ADD Hoarding Broodlord, Gilded Drake, and Invasion of Amonkhet;
CUT Darkblast, Founding the Third Path, and Body Launderer.

STILL NEEDS SLOT: Infernal Sovereign

TEYSA:

ADD Battle for Tolvada, Archangel Elspeth, Recruiter of the Guard, Marsh Flats, Chivalric Alliance, Defiler of Faith, Monastery Mentor, and Westvale Abbey;
CUT Luminarch Ascension, Swords to Plowshares, Professor Onyx, Maze of Ith, Welcoming Vampire, Kalitas, Spirit-Sister's Call (potentially reverse), and Clever Concealment (potentially reverse).

AVACYN (ready to test):

ADD Battle for Kaldheim, Battle for Gobakhan, and Phyrexian Censor;
CUT Halvar, Aven Mindcensor, and Akiri.

ROALESK:

STILL NEEDS SLOT: Kami of Whispered Hope, Tribute to the World Tree, See Double, Wrenn and Realmbreaker

LIGHT-PAWS (cEDH build, ready to test):

ADD Phyrexian Censor, Surge of Salvation
CUT Rebuff the Wicked, Replenish

feral briar
#

Oh shit they both left anyways. Drake is kinda gross with araumi

#

[[araumi]]

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/267/araumi-of-the-dead-tide

Araumi of the Dead Tide <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
manat, Exile cards from your graveyard equal to the number of opponents you have: Target creature card in your graveyard gains encore until end of turn. The encore cost is equal to its mana cost. (Exile the creature card and pay its mana cost: For each opponent, create a token copy that attacks that opponent this turn if able. They gain haste. Sacrifice them at the beginning of the next end step. Activate only as a sorcery.)
1/4

feral briar
#

[[cut in two]]

timber mesaBOT
#

No card found for “cut in two”

feral briar
#

[[saw in two]]

timber mesaBOT
#

No card found for “saw in two”

feral briar
#

Shame its the controller who gets the tokens and not the owner, that would make it even funnier

zealous ferry
#

[[Saw in Half]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

With regards to the Teysa changes, I'm curious whether Battles will be any good in commander. We shall see how aggressively people block for them! Battle for Tolvada seems great, and Battle for Innistrad seems... fine? Honestly I just want to explore this new card type, and Teysa seems like a great place!

It feels heretical to cut Swords, but my commander already does that trick really well. I think that @feral briar is right that trying to include Pile On is too greedy (though Lethal Scheme still makes the cut due to the card advantage). Luminarch Ascension is a crazy strong card, but it tends to draw a little too much hate (and removing it now ensures I have truly zero infinite combos, which is a goal here).

feral briar
#

Yeah I ended up cutting ascension as well. Its great in the early turns but after that you just become an aggro magnet 👀

static spire
#

Ascension is SUPER strong (and dammit, I adore Zendikar foils...) but it just doesn't serve the rest of the deck. I never want to pay the 1W, so it's 1) an aggro magnet, and 2) kinda a waste.

...also, I keep choosing hands JUST for a T2 Luminarch, then getting blown out.

zealous ferry
#

That does sound like it warps your approach

static spire
static spire
#

Could also cut [[Aven Mindcensor]], I haven't been super happy with it.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

The flash is nice, since it can innately dodge Rule of Law, and I like having a flying attacker to carry Swords when needed.

#

But people in my current meta just don't tutor THAT often.

feral briar
#

Makes sense. My friend running my ixhel list is cutting archivist for a similar reason

static spire
#

Okay so!

#

Played some games today with the changes to Avacyn and Teysa

#

Conclusions:

#
  1. I really like Invasion of Kaldheim! It’s a solid wheel effect, hilarious with Elesh Norn, and the back side is decently relevant as well. I never drew Phyrexian Censor, but I’m familiar with the strength of that effect so I feel confident on its inclusion.
#
  1. Of my Teysa changes, Invasion of Tolvada is pretty solid, but Invasion of Innistrad is pretty bad unfortunately 😦 I badly lacked lands in both games I played (one win, one loss) so I may just swap the battle into a land -- most likely Westvale Abbey?
#

Battles are rarely something I feel like I want to throw combat damage at (so far, in these first tests)

#

Non-combat damage is pretty easy to throw at them though, and feels good when trying to flip

#

Also, THIS monstrosity was my board at the end of the Avacyn game

static spire
#

I'm also realizing how important a low-toughness Battle can be

#

So I'm now looking at [[Invasion of Gobakhan]] as one of the potential best

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/22/invasion-of-gobakhan-lightshield-array

Invasion of Gobakhan <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of Gobakhan enters the battlefield, look at target opponent's hand. You may exile a nonland card from it. For as long as that card remains exiled, its owner may play it. A spell cast this way costs mana2 more to cast.

Lightshield Array
Enchantment
At the beginning of your end step, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature that attacked this turn.
Sacrifice Lightshield Array: Creatures you control gain hexproof and indestructible until end of turn.
The weight of Phyrexia crashed down upon Gobakhan, but the will of its people endured.

static spire
#

for now, I'm going to test IOG over Akiri

static spire
#

Hm. What would you cut in Araumi for this?

feral briar
#

Golgari thug maybe? Im not a huge fan of the mostly dredge only cards. Which it isn’t necessarily but eh

zealous ferry
#

I agree on Golgari Thug as a suggestion this time

#

getting the creature (or three) is good for when it dies though.

#

I guess it depends on it vs stinkweed imp. If the one additional dredge and creature loop vs "deathtouch"

#

It makes me so sad to see that reassembling skeleton doesn't have any card that's really an improvement over it.

feral briar
#

Oh I didnt see the Imp

zealous ferry
#

I had to look again because I realized I'd have wanted stinkweed or both.

feral briar
#

I’d probably hit the imp myself, then. Dredges more but its only one more card, higher cmc, and imo a less useful ability

static spire
timber mesaBOT
static spire
static spire
static spire
#

Had a chance to do some more testing at EDH night this week!

#

Conclusion 1: The current build of Avacyn absolutely slaps. Just, holy hell. The deck feels smooth as silk these days.

#

I've never played a Boros deck even close to this level of fun, and I've never seen any other similar one either.

#

The incorporation of Elesh and blinking lines has revolutionized the deck, now it's carefully balanced between three themes -- blink, voltron, hatebears. Elesh ties things together by serving all three lines (given the number of ways to get Stoneforge, and the fact that Stoneforge can now grab the blinky sword).

#

I had a T3 today which went "Dockside for 5 treasure, Elesh Norn, Ephemerate for 10 treasure, go absolutely berserk"

#

As an addendum, [[Aerial Extortionist]] keeps getting better every time I play it as well.

Even beyond the passive draw and resetting of counters, commanders, etc -- I got to exile my own Rule of Law on combat damage each turn. I then cast a bunch of spells in second main, and finish my turn by recasting the Rule of Law.

I'm also excited to use it to reset Battles in the future!

It's an amazing way to break symmetry for sure. And it's essentially a repeatable blink spell in a pinch.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Conclusion 2: I need to regularly practice my Araumi lines, or I'll get super rusty. I haven't played the deck in a month or two, and it's probably my most complex individual build. I had to halt and think for a solid five-ten minutes.

Also, the new Hoarding Broodlord lines are as completely absurd as I expected, and it really helps me leverage a Spellseeker line into an instant combo win.

Honestly, I'm almost of the mind to SWAP Razaketh into Broodlord. It's legitimately that good -- requires less setup, though Broodlord can't protect your wins with free countermagic, so there's plusses and minuses.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Conclusion 3: Teysa is powerful and VERY fun when it works, but it exists in a somewhat frustrating state?

It's the "fairest" of my decks, in the sense that it functions purely through the medium of the board. You will die to combat, or not die at all. It also telegraphs the win, since it has to build up a big board of tokens before it can do anything, and that takes several turns in nearly all cases. There's very rarely a "win out of nowhere", which I enjoy as a contrast to all my other decks, where I often DO have that explosive potential out of nowhere.

However, while it's amazing at shutting down any kind of creature-centric deck (to the point of frustration at times), it really struggles to face any kind of spell-related deck -- I consistently lose to non-creature combos, when they show up at the same table. I wish it felt more interactive in that way.

I wish more white-black walkers had relevant anti-spellslinger static abilities. We need a walker with a static ROL effect.

And yet, the only ways to fix that problem would involve adding some powerful stax like [[Contamination]], which isn't a direction I want to pull the deck. I suppose I could stay on-theme and run Karn the Great Creator, but... 🤷‍♀️ I don't want to?

Hm. Maybe I just need to accept that my particular colors and strategy (white-black superfriends) sometimes faces terrible matchups...? Suggestions appreciated on this connundrum!

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Conclusion 4: Kroxa fizzled out hard (due to land-screw and some VERY well-timed enemy removal spells), but threatened a very early win nonetheless, then rebuilt into a second win attempt.

I did successfully strip my opponents' hands. BUT, things took a downhill turn when all three opponents topdecked powerful card draw.

I think I need to bite the bullet and get my hands on a Chains of Mephistopheles, in truth, since nothing else manages to shut down hand rebuilding quite the same way. When I do that, I'll need to stick [[Shred Memory]] back in (for Breach, Waste Not, Animate Dead, and Chains) OR just run another tutor (perhaps Grim?).

Speaking of tweaks, I didn't draw any of the new cards, but I think I may reverse a few of the recent swaps (and add a bit more reanimation). I feel like it's lost some of the explosive potential and the benefits of Kroxa itself (though I do enjoy the more midrange-y feel). Stay tuned for further tweaks.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Conclusion 5: Roalesk needs a complete and total rebuild. It's just too glass-cannon and reliant on 3-drops, and opponents have discovered that shooting my 3-drops is enough to knock me out of the game. And I often fail to hit my first four land-drops, which also knocks me out of the game even when opponents ignore me.

(It's utterly crazy when it DOES go off, though!)

I'll do that rebuild soon, would love help.

glacial cradle
#

I'd love to help. One of my favorite builds so far has been Vorel, which has some similar themes, if different philosophies, to your Roalesk

rare mango
#

sounds like roalesk isn't running enough lands 🤔 😉

static spire
static spire
feral briar
#

@static spire i would not bite a 1k$ bullet for a chains.

Its a lot more expensive mana wise but maybe [[Painful Quandary]] can do what you’re looking for?

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

Or maybe [[damping sphere]] to at least limit how much they can cast after a big draw

timber mesaBOT
static spire
feral briar
static spire
#

I don’t want to make Teysa staxy, unfortunately. It’s meant to be more casual-ish.

rare mango
#

ISH 🤣

static spire
#

I’m just trying to figure out if there’s any cards in white-black which 1) don’t ruin things for “fair” or lower power decks, and 2) still align broadly with a token and planeswalker theme to not dilute the deck with goodstuff

static spire
feral briar
#

Maybe one day we’ll get a BW card that reads something like “{1}, sacrifice a creature: counter target spell unless its controller pays {1}” 🤭

But at least nothing comes to mind and thats probably an issue I’m going to have in Ixhel as well if I do end up cutting RoL

static spire
#

If I didn’t already have TWO Rule of Law decks, I’d probably run those effects in Teysa lol

#

Because those DO interact well with planeswalkers and generally don’t harm fairer decks too much

feral briar
#

I haven’t been enjoying RoLs too much in casual because they’re too fair. The curve there is fairly low to the ground so unless I’m playing against URx it feels like I’m kneecapping myself because everyone else is only playing one, maybe two, spells per turn anyways 😩

static spire
#

Arguably, that’s the ideal design for a stax effect (from WotC’s point of view, and from the point of view of decks that don’t want to pubstomp)

feral briar
#

Welp. Was gonna suggest ranger captain of Eos to silence the spellslinger for at least one turn, but teysa doesn’t have any targets it looks like :p

feral briar
static spire
#

I’m running all six white ROLs in Avacyn right now (and like I said, that deck is currently in a WONDERFUL place — albeit a higher power sphere than I want Teysa to inhabit)

static spire
static spire
#

(There’s a reason I’m on so many 3-cost humans, including my commander)

feral briar
#

Like the impression I’ve gotten so far is that like unless the URx decks are at the table RoL actively hurts Ixhel more than anyone else. That said I did finally get most of the cards I was missing, so we’ll see how it plays now that I’ve got some onboard removal like Jitte, Grim Hireling, and liliana. Still missing Wanderer and Grist though

feral briar
static spire
#

I'm still waiting for a 4-cost human with powerful reanimation of some sort, so I can supercharge that particular line.

#

(I suppose I could run Hero of Bladehold as another 4-cost option, but...)

#

Or good old [[Sengir Autocrat]] 👀

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Okay, wait. [[Whisper, Blood Liturgist]] -- I could swap Teysa into Whisper with Pyre of Heroes, then (the following turn) swap two tokens BACK into Teysa, then sac Teysa again with Pyre every turn 🤔 That could be spicy.

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

This is how teysa becomes a WB sac and recur deck instead of a token superfriends deck SheldonPogChamp

#

Wait is the conniving creature not a human?

static spire
feral briar
#

Oh nope [[Body Launderer]] is an ogre

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

I don't have many non-token creatures anyway, so I couldn't profit off the first ability very well

feral briar
#

Yeah true

static spire
#

I think I just did the dirtiest play of my life, in an online game today.

#

I had [[Ugin, the Spirit Dragon]] at 10.

I ulted him, and he died.

Upon drawing the 7 cards, I dropped [[Invasion of Tolvada]] and Yawgmoth.

I returned Ugin to battlefield with the battle, proliferated 3 times with Yawgmoth, and ulted Ugin AGAIN.

Everyone conceded. It was glorious, in the most evil-laughter sort of way.

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/241/invasion-of-tolvada-the-broken-sky

Invasion of Tolvada <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of Tolvada enters the battlefield, return target nonbattle permanent card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Defense: 5

The Broken Sky
Enchantment
Creature tokens you control get +1/+0 and have lifelink.
At the beginning of your end step, create a 1/1 white and black Spirit creature token with flying.
Angry ghosts poured through and pummeled the Invasion Tree, filling the heavens with the rhythms of war.

static spire
feral briar
#

Ugin dying:

glacial cradle
#

Invasion of Tolvada seems sweet. [[Obdezats aid]] but with a pretty sweet potential reward attached and on a permanent.

timber mesaBOT
#

No card found for “Obdezats aid”

glacial cradle
#

[[Obzedats aid]]

timber mesaBOT
zealous ferry
#

That's not dirty, that's great

static spire
knotty shard
#

I'm probably trying out my powered down version of @static spire Phyrexian Heliod deck tomorrow

static spire
static spire
#

@obsidian sorrel so, we were chatting commanders for convoke?

obsidian sorrel
#

Yes. GAAIV.

static spire
#

Let's look into other options 😂 Not least because an OG foil GAAIV is, uh, a lot of money

#

I'm open to potentially using a 3-color commander and color cropping down, if it's a good fit

obsidian sorrel
#

Well Italian they're a bit cheaper 😛

#

And the Judge Reward Promo isnt very expensive either

#

You could look into [[The Council of Four]], which gives you some drawpower and extra bodies to convoke with.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Hm, that's definitely a possibility.

balmy mantle
timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/moc/9/saint-traft-and-rem-karolus

Saint Traft and Rem Karolus <:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Spirit Human
Whenever Saint Traft and Rem Karolus becomes tapped, create a 1/1 red Human creature token if this is the first time this ability has resolved this turn. If it's the second time, create a 1/1 blue Spirit creature token with flying. If it's the third time, create a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying.
Whenever you cast a spell that has convoke, untap Saint Traft and Rem Karolus.
3/4

static spire
#

I was screwing around with [[Elminster]] at one point.

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/274/elminster

Elminster <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Planeswalker — Elminster
Whenever you scry, the next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn costs manax less to cast, where X is the number of cards looked at while scrying this way.
+2: Draw a card, then scry 2.
−3: Exile the top card of your library. Create a number of 1/1 blue Faerie Dragon creature tokens with flying equal to that card's mana value.
Elminster can be your commander.
Loyalty: 5

obsidian sorrel
#

I don't know how many artifacts your deck would contain, but [[Malcator, Purity Overseer]] also ends up providing bodies

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/one/208/malcator-purity-overseer

Malcator, Purity Overseer <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Elephant Wizard
When Malcator, Purity Overseer enters the battlefield, create a 3/3 colorless Phyrexian Golem artifact creature token.
At the beginning of your end step, if three or more artifacts entered the battlefield under your control this turn, create a 3/3 colorless Phyrexian Golem artifact creature token.
1/1

static spire
#

Could also try Taigam, since he just got that great new showcase

#

[[Tura Kennerüd, Skyknight]] was another I was messing with, but... she's bad

timber mesaBOT
obsidian sorrel
#

Could also look into two cheap partners, just for their bodies

static spire
#

Or cut down [[Elenda and Azor]] to white-blue I guess

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/moc/6/elenda-and-azor

Elenda and Azor <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Vampire Knight Sphinx
Flying, ward mana2
Whenever Elenda and Azor attacks, you may pay manaxmanawmanaumanab. If you do, draw X cards.
At the beginning of each end step, you may pay 4 life. If you do, create a number of 1/1 black Vampire Knight creature tokens with lifelink equal to the number of cards you've drawn this turn.
6/6

static spire
obsidian sorrel
#

Would open up [[Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

I also had a Raffine deck from a while ago, I could try and tweak that?

obsidian sorrel
#

Perhaps [[Errant and Giada]] can do work?

timber mesaBOT
obsidian sorrel
#

Or [[Tobias, Doomed Conqueror]], again with the bodies.

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

[[Rigo Streetwise]], could be an option

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

Encourages me to have many small creatures, and gives me three cards drawn per turn (in theory)

#

And notably he's castable for purely blue-white

#

In truth I probably should just do Kykar and use mana rocks to generate the red

obsidian sorrel
#

[[Oji, the Exquisite Blade]] can blink your convoke fuel

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

but he's just so... common

obsidian sorrel
#

Yea if I were in your shoes

#

I'd go with The Council of Four

static spire
#

I'll add that to the queue of possibility

#

If we try the idea of partners, the best options are probably Prava, Sakashima, Esior, or maybe Yoshimaru

#

I could run [[Far Traveler]], [[Feywild Visitor]], and [[Veteran Soldier]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

...okay, I DO like this idea, hold on

rare mango
#

council of four RULES

#

Sakashima does not rule 🤮

static spire
#

I was thinking [[Esior]] and [[Prava]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
balmy mantle
#

[[Soundwave]] maybe?

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/bot/14/soundwave-sonic-spy-soundwave-superior-captain

Soundwave, Sonic Spy <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Artifact Creature — Robot
More Than Meets the Eye mana2manawmanaumanab (You may cast this card converted for mana2manawmanaumanab.)
Whenever one or more creature tokens you control deal combat damage to a player, exile target instant or sorcery card with mana value equal to the damage dealt from their graveyard. Copy it. You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost. If you do, convert Soundwave.
5/4

Soundwave, Superior Captain
Legendary Artifact
Whenever you cast a spell with an odd mana value, convert Soundwave. If you do, create Ravage, a legendary 3/3 black Robot artifact creature token with menace and deathtouch.
Whenever you cast a spell with an even mana value, convert Soundwave. If you do, create Laserbeak, a legendary 2/2 blue Robot artifact creature token with flying and hexproof.

static spire
#

The first rule of Daedalus's deckbuilding thread is that we do not talk about UB Commanders lol

balmy mantle
static spire
#

I think it could be actually kinda cool

#

But I'd need to reskin it first, and that's really hard with transformer cards

rare mango
#

I've tried soundwave a bit, it is really hard to make him worthwhile

#

mill + tokens work well, but it's so hard to get exactsies damage

static spire
#

...oh, ew, "equal to the damage dealt"

#

not "less than or equal"

rare mango
#

yuuuuup

static spire
#

never mind, I retract the "kinda cool" take XD

rare mango
#

he's so close to being kinda cool though 😭

static spire
#

Anyway, though, I actually want to experiment with this partner idea that @obsidian sorrel tossed out!

#

Backup plan is Council of Four

#

...though if I used Yoshimaru and Esior, I could call the deck "Pet Shop"

obsidian sorrel
#

Get some boys in there, and you can Go West, New York City Boy. It's A Sin Being Boring, so go for it.

#

(And that reference DEFINITELY dates me)

balmy mantle
#

My mind goes to [[Shorikai]] for token gen and card draw...the pilots dont HAVE to crew

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/nec/4/shorikai-genesis-engine

Shorikai, Genesis Engine <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Artifact — Vehicle
mana1, manat: Draw two cards, then discard a card. Create a 1/1 colorless Pilot creature token with "This creature crews Vehicles as though its power were 2 greater."
Crew 8 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 8 or more: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)
Shorikai, Genesis Engine can be your commander.
8/8

obsidian sorrel
#

The most played Azorius commander...feels a bit overdone even for a deck like this 😛

static spire
#

I really really like the idea of partners exploiting double token-making backgrounds though

balmy mantle
#

[[Abdel adrian]]//[[Feywild Visitor]] make a BUNCH of tokens for convoking with

timber mesaBOT
balmy mantle
#

Mostly brainstorming here tho

static spire
#

I think I'm gonna try Esior/Prava for now

#

Cheap blue flappy boi, and a token-maker

balmy mantle
#

ye seems like a good pick

static spire
#

Could also go with Keleth, since several of those backgrounds require attacking 🤷‍♂️

#

[[Keleth Sunmare]]

timber mesaBOT
#

No card found for “Keleth Sunmare”

static spire
#

[[Keleth]]

timber mesaBOT
balmy mantle
#

Prava is so great for the passive buff in my Neyali deck I deadass for got it can generate tokens

rare mango
#

[[inspiring leader]][[veteran soldier]]

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

We lose out on the best one of all ( [[Cultist of the Absolute]] ) but...

timber mesaBOT
static spire
#

[[Candlekeep Sage]], [[Far Traveler]], [[Feywild Visitor]], [[Inspiring Leader]], [[Noble Heritage]], and [[Veteran Soldier]] all seem very playable

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/35/noble-heritage

Noble Heritage <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Enchantment — Background
Commander creatures you own have "When this creature enters the battlefield and at the beginning of your upkeep, each player may put two +1/+1 counters on a creature they control. For each opponent who does, you gain protection from that player until your next turn." (You can't be targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by anything controlled by that player.)

static spire
static spire
#

I'll mess more with this later, but I think it could be a neat idea!

static spire
#

White-blue token aggro with a side of battles and Convoke

static spire
#

I'm leaning into soldier tribal as I mess with this further

feral briar
#

Soldier Girl Spring

#

Oh geez, the cmc of Complete the Circuit

#

Whats [[Chief Engineer]] for? You only have 4 artifacts

timber mesaBOT
feral briar
#

I like everything else though, seems pretty neat!

static spire
neon shore
#

I was also inspired to build this based on Edric

static spire
feral briar
#

@static spire I’m considering the possibility of turning Ixhel into a tokens deck w/ the doom hive if I end up not liking how the deck is working out (or maybe I’ll do it anyways and have a couple of Junk builds). Has stuff like Wanderer’s minus ability worked out well even when its blowing up your tokens?

knotty shard
#

If you have Heliod plus a win con (one game I had shark typhoon) it feels almost unfair unbeatable.

#

However, without Heliod out or when it was answered, it sputters quite a bit. Felt durdle-y in a bad way.

feral briar
knotty shard
#

I'd rather do anything else than try to keep up with the upkeep on Cathar's Crusade

static spire
feral briar
static spire
feral briar
static spire
#

Goals are threefold:

  1. Tighten the available lines. Remove some of the jankier lines in favor of ramp and draw.
  2. Reduce vulnerability to opposing spot removal (via adding further protective interaction).
  3. Increase land count and/or ramp, since most of the critical spells are at 3 mana.

I also don't want to incorporate any 1 or 2 card combos. Every combo must involve 3+ cards.

static spire
#

Current VERY tentative set of changes:

REMOVE (I was at 103 previously)

1 Benthic Biomancer
1 Replication Technique
1 Change of Plans
1 Wrenn and Realmbreaker
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Walking Ballista
1 Cankerbloom
1 Park Heights Maverick
1 Ledger Shredder
1 Kodama of the West Tree
1 Deepglow Skate
1 Nesting Grounds
1 Simic Manipulator
1 Lighthouse Chronologist

ADD:

1 Swan Song
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Mana Drain
1 Pact of Negation
1 Force of Will
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 The One Ring
1 Invasion of Segovia // Caetus, Sea Tyrant of Segovia

#

This set of changes HURTS a bit; I'd be cutting several powerful effects. But I need more to do in the first few turns, and I need more ways to protect myself. We shall see which of these changes stick...

feral briar
#

I like these changes, though I can tell why they hurt

#

its some pretty neat effects in exchange for more consistency

static spire
#

I'm excited about trying Invasion of Segovia here

zealous ferry
#

In Roalesk? It's a card that seems like it should be really cool if you can flip it.

static spire
#

I think I can flip it; my commander defeats the battle in one turn.

#

(Also, Swan Song over Heroic Intervention, since Farewell is a common board wipe I want to avoid.)

zealous ferry
#

Moving back the one thing I messaged about [[Hidetsugu and Kairi]] seem to be having some people approach it in a way that reminds me of your Roalesk

timber mesaBOT
#

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/228/hidetsugu-and-kairi

Hidetsugu and Kairi <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Ogre Demon Dragon
Flying
When Hidetsugu and Kairi enters the battlefield, draw three cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library in any order.
When Hidetsugu and Kairi dies, exile the top card of your library. Target opponent loses life equal to its mana value. If it's an instant or sorcery card, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.
5/4

static spire
zealous ferry
#

A lot of clone effects, rite of replication, et.c

#

Ways to make sure it dies as many times as possible.

static spire
#

Makes sense! I hope they end up trying [[Blade of Shared Souls]] in that strategy, it's AMAZING for that

timber mesaBOT