#General deckbuilding Q&A and Short Discussion
spare marsh
mostly blink with a little of the others
it's kind of in wip state right now but this should be accurate to my paper list
think I definitely need a [[moonshaker cavalry]] at least and probably some other stuff, might throw my spare cathars' crusade in there
hollow latchBOT
coarse stump
interesting to not see [[The Watcher in the Water]]
but yeah, list looks solid, aside from all the aforementioned problems. thanks a lot!
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
I've seen some really interesting Ephara decks. There's one list I might be able to find online. I'll have to check.
rotund forge
I feel like there are probably a few commanders people are building that previously would have been ephara decks
[[Shorikai]][[The Council of Four]] and [[Heliod, the Radiant Dawn]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Artifact — Vehicle
, 
: Draw two cards, then discard a card. Create a 1/1 colorless Pilot creature token with "This creature crews Vehicles as though its power were 2 greater."
Crew 8 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 8 or more: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)
Shorikai, Genesis Engine can be your commander.
8/8
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God
When Heliod, the Radiant Dawn enters the battlefield, return target enchantment card that isn't a God from your graveyard to your hand.
: Transform Heliod, the Radiant Dawn. Activate only as a sorcery. ( can be paid with either 
or 2 life.)
"Compleat the faith, compleat the god." —Ajani Goldmane
4/4
Heliod, the Warped Eclipse
Legendary Enchantment Creature — Phyrexian God
You may cast spells as though they had flash.
Spells you cast cost less to cast for each card your opponents have drawn this turn.
"Compleat the god, compleat the plane." —Ajani Goldmane
4/6
rotund forge
@small lark What commander are you looking at in Rakdos that you're looking for artifact creatures?
real rune
Should I cut the ozolith and herald of secret streams? I'm not sure of those two
I don't think I care that much about how big the +1/+1 counters are, just to do a lot of X
rotund forge
I would keep them both if combat damage is a large part of your gameplan.
Ozolith and Simic Ascendancy also work really well together.
It looks like you're doing that or Torment of Hailfire/exsanguinate/ballista?
rotund forge
I probably would cut [[Capricopian]] first because it was a card that ate up a lot of time when I tried it.
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Goat Hydra
Capricopian enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
: Put a +1/+1 counter on Capricopian, then you may reselect which player Capricopian is attacking. Only the player Capricopian is attacking may activate this ability and only during the declare attackers step. (It can't attack its controller.)
0/0
spare estuary
I'm looking for a commander that fits a very interactive deck, with more of a focus on stack interaction than the board (I enjoy counter wars and complicated stacks with weird old cards).
Do you have any recommendations?
So far I have a [[Lier, Disciple of the drowned]] "technically not counter spell" deck and sometimes borrow a creatureless [[Mizzix of the Izmagnus]] that uses her xp counters from the control for banefires and comet storms.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Goblin Wizard
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell with mana value greater than the number of experience counters you have, you get an experience counter.
Instant and sorcery spells you cast cost less to cast for each experience counter you have.
2/2
round mist
I'm looking for a commander that fits a very interactive deck, with more of a fo...
I've used [[queza]] to good effect in that slot
hollow latchBOT
rare parcel
With [[lathril…]] as commander is [[parelle lives]] and [[doubling seasons]] worth the token doubling or are those cards better swapped for go wide options?
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Elf Noble
Menace
Whenever Lathril, Blade of the Elves deals combat damage to a player, create that many 1/1 green Elf Warrior creature tokens.
, Tap ten untapped Elves you control: Each opponent loses 10 life and you gain 10 life.
2/3
still hemlock
I wouldn't bother with either
gray mural
is mardu vampires expensive to build as i have recently picked up odric, blood cursed and floran, voldaren scion and not sure whether to build around them or get a mardu commander
graceful knot
Not since we just got a orzhov vampire deck that reprinted most of the really solid stuff
gray mural
Not since we just got a orzhov vampire deck that reprinted most of the really so...
yeah wanted to pick up the blood rites precon but the good precons sell out too fast at our local lgs so trying to pick up a cheap base and then look for the more expensive cards, what commander would you use to play both cards in the deck
graceful knot
Many options exist.
Solid ones include [[Licia Sanguine]], [[Dihada, Binder of]], [[mathas fiend]] and though I hesitate to recommend a £90 card, [[Edgar markov]] is the Classic (but also has a reputation.)
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Vampire Soldier
This spell costs less to cast for each 1 life you gained this turn.
First strike, lifelink
Pay 5 life: Put three +1/+1 counters on Licia, Sanguine Tribune. Activate only during your turn and only once each turn.
"I give my blood, my life, all I have in exchange for victory."
4/4
queen ivy
If you want to keep using Florian there’s also [[Evelyn the covetous]]
hollow latchBOT
queen ivy
For grixis vamps
gray mural
Many options exist.
Solid ones include [[Licia Sanguine]], [[Dihada, Binder of...
Thanks, I am new to the game and got quite a few decks being built slowly but wanting to do a classic vampires vs werewolves
graceful knot
Grixis (like evelyn) vampires is very solid too, but you definitely will miss having white.
gray mural
For grixis vamps
wondering how to keep both in the deck
still hemlock
4c is tricky, I would pick either mardu or grixis
Itll let you put a dedicated vampire commander in the CZ, which will help guide your game plan and deckbuilding
graceful knot
4c is tricky, I would pick either mardu or grixis
Both meaning Odric and Florian, so Mardu
still hemlock
Gotcha 👍
prime snow
I'm looking for a commander that fits a very interactive deck, with more of a fo...
[[talrand, sky]] is the classic one. Similary [[errant and giada]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Detective
You may cast creature spells as though they had flash.
Whenever one or more other creatures you control leave the battlefield, investigate. This ability triggers only once each turn. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
2/3
prime snow
neato card, doesn't work with E&G mind you, for anyone who might think otherwise
obtuse dagger
i like [[trostani three]] for interactive commander (in a different way)
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Dryad
: Target creature gains deathtouch until end of turn.
: Target creature gains vigilance until end of turn.
: Target creature gains double strike until end of turn.
Tangled in the heart of Vitu-Ghazi, they guard their secrets from eager ears.
4/4
queen ivy
i like [[trostani three]] for interactive commander (in a different way)
Selesnya beats with them is siiiick
Just swing in and have threat of activation allowing you through every time
rotund forge
I love that you can use it on opponent's creatures
The political angle involved there is sweet.
Person attacks in creature, opponent has a chump blocker. Pay to give them deathtouch and double strike.
queen ivy
It can be doubly powerful. Threat of activation on your turn, then entice others to attack each other and give blockers deathtouch
obtuse dagger
its extragood with stuff that already has first/double strike or deathtouch 😄
fantastic place for a seedborn muse too
queen ivy
All the ones that give you mana on other people’s turns are great includes
vivid pulsar
Has anyone tried building [[Ayesha Tanaka, Armorer]]? Was she fun?
hollow latchBOT
wheat glen
Heyo
I try to make a Galea voltron and I'm not sure if I should focus on Aura or Equipements or have the best of both
Choose one or the another mean that I can focus on specific support cards for aura or equips
Mix both have flaws but allow me to run the best voltron aura/equipements
But it means less consistency for support
Idk, what's optimal?
prime snow
Idk, what's optimal?
I mean in a casual format part of it depends on what you want to go for.
Doing just both means you can opt to have [[slippery bogle]] effects and focus more on commander damage.
hollow latchBOT
prime snow
Optimally, you probably just want to focus on one, and which one takes you on a different path.
GW care more about auras in general than blue, but blue likes artifacts (and white likes equipments specifically).
Generally most people running auras and enchantments are sticking to GW commanders since the commanders in those spaces are actually a bit better than our bant selection for enchantress decks.
Equipment lets you exploit stuff like [[colossus hammer]], and lets you also run the good artifact support like [[urza, lord high]] and [[Etherium Sculptor]]
hollow latchBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +10/+10 and loses flying.
Equip 
(: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
"There's only one way to be sure it's really dead."
Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
When Urza, Lord High Artificer enters the battlefield, create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with "This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control."
Tap an untapped artifact you control: Add .
: Shuffle your library, then exile the top card. Until end of turn, you may play that card without paying its mana cost.
1/4
Artifact Creature — Vedalken Artificer
Artifact spells you cast cost less to cast.
The greatest masters of the craft abandon tools altogether, shaping metal with hand and mind alone.
1/2
wheat glen
*Optimally*, you probably just want to focus on one, and which one takes you on ...
Trying to do both might be an issue?
prime snow
More that you can't have as good of support for one specific one
wheat glen
Yea, mmh but it would allow me to run the best of both worlds
Ofc no great support
Mmh
Meaning that focus on one is better overall
Prolly
frosty pike
With a Flip Tamiyo incoming in MH3, I'm looking forward to building an Oops all Tamiyos deck. What are some suggestions y'all have that are evocative of Tamiyo? Thinking that the deck will end up being some sort of UG proliferation/artifact shell depending on how the final card ends up.
still hemlock
rip [[tamiyo field researcher]]
hollow latchBOT
trim rock
Well you can always use her journal. [[Lunar Force]]
hollow latchBOT
frosty pike
rip [[tamiyo field researcher]]
No confirmations yet, but I'm already expecting to be sad to not be able to use her. WotC could always do a hybrid/activated ability to let her in
still hemlock
Did they confirm the flip walkers were an enemy colored cycle?
Or did I make that up?
frosty pike
not sure, but I'm expecting enemy colored cycle or a full 10 pairs situation
still hemlock
I do not expect them to make 10 planeswalkers
trim rock
Seeing as it's a MH3 set and a not a whole War of the Spark situation, I don't think it'll happen either.
obtuse dagger
Field Researcher is Love
young patrol
What kind of artifact-based mana scaling exists in UR-focused Grixis? I'm looking to cut Storm the Vault and I am not looking to buy an Urza, but I'd still like to be able to generate mana that scales with an arbitrary number of equipment tokens.
[[Forensic Gadgeteer]] unfortunately doesn't reduce equip costs to 0.
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Vedalken Artificer Detective
Whenever you cast an artifact spell, investigate. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
Activated abilities of artifacts you control cost less to activate. This effect can't reduce the mana in that cost to less than one mana.
2/3
young patrol
Clock of Omens 👀, but that looks just a bit too involved for my tastes.
Maaaaybe?? It does actually fit the theme of the deck to a degree...
young patrol
I think I'm pretty settled on Clock of Omens for now provided I can find a Sol Ring to target with it. It's also future proofing the list for crime enablers.
still hemlock
Why cut storm the vault though 🤔
young patrol
So this goes back to 2015 when I kept finding that I never saw Gideon in my Tajic deck.
Can't search for it, can't recur it, and it's not always good when I draw it so I chuck it for something else and then just never get to play with it.
Storm the Vault is generally pretty good in the minority of games that I see it, but it's JUST mana and sometimes mana doesn't do enough.
In this exact deck I'm replacing Storm the Vault with Saverok's Tome which admittedly is a much lower ceiling but fits the deck better mechanically
still hemlock
[[$urza lord high]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[Brudiclad]] works too
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
With [[saheeli, sublime artificer]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
Use her minus to turn an artifact token into a copy of any artifact or creature you control. Brudiclad can then make every token a copy
rotund forge
OH, so, Bobbleheads, and specifically [[Luck Bobblehead]]
hollow latchBOT
Artifact — Bobblehead
: Add one mana of any color.
, : Roll X six-sided dice, where X is the number of Bobbleheads you control. Create a tapped Treasure token for each even result. If you rolled 6 exactly seven times, you win the game.
rotund forge
I played with it last night with [[Dee Kay, Finder]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
I tried to go for it early (earlier than I should) when I had 11 artifacts out and I was able to do like 25 damage with the drain effect.
I was, at that point, getting between 2 and 3 6's for each set of rolls.
trim rock
TBH I'd love to try a deck with all the bobbleheads, just because it seems like a fun spin on an Artifact deck.
But I'mma just put that as a backup deck idea.
rotund forge
I used the Companion dice rolling feature to bulk roll the dice
I have all the bobbleheads in the list, my point is you probably want a commander that cares about dice rolling
The Luck bobblehead is great because it has such a low activation cost..
This is the list I made if people are curious: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/YDTlhpCUxk2hDxgOudE1Pg
trim rock
Appreciated!
rotund forge
Dee Kay, Mr. House or the Space Family Goblinson would be the ones that would work best with bobbleheads.
[[Space Family Goblinson]] counts each die rolled rather than saying "one or more" so rolling 11 die get 11 counters and trample.
hollow latchBOT
still hemlock
If you want a bobble head W you need to copy them
rotund forge
Yes, but a win is different than just value
rotund forge
[[Masterful Replication]] is probably the wincon of my Dee Kay deck
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
Either because it can make a LOT of Luck Bobbleheads or because it's an easy way to trigger [[Mechanized production]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
But, while luck bobblehead says win the game, the fact it's the cheapest way to repeatedly roll a volume of dice is probably the most important thing it does.
royal pewter
If I play [[pramikon]] and someone declares an attack on me can I blink pramikon to switch the attack direction and avoid the attack
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
I think #mtg-rules-questions would be able to answer that
graceful knot
If I play [[pramikon]] and someone declares an attack on me can I blink pramikon...
No, similar to cards entering attacking, you've missed the window to prevent the attack being declared, so they're still attacking you.
royal pewter
No, similar to cards entering attacking, you've missed the window to prevent the...
So could I still blink pramikon before they declare attackers preventing them from hitting me?
graceful knot
Yes, either at end of main phase or more likely beginning of combat you'll gain priority to do this
As long as you haven't reached "declare attackers" part of combat you're good
vivid pulsar
So here's a question for people here -- it's been about a year since Battles were first printed. Now that we've reached the 1-year mark, what do you think of them? And how many (and which) do you run in any decks?
spare marsh
I think they're cool but I don't run a lot
I only have 2 in decks at the moment - one copy of Ikoria in GW Selvala and one copy of Segovia in MAT Narset
need to get a couple more copies of Ikoria though because that thing slaps
wait
a year...
no...
don't do that to me
trim rock
vivid pulsar
I think they're cool but I don't run a lot
I feel like there's two categories of battles --
In the "front side is playable alone" category, we have:
- Invasion of Amonkhet -- just a solid self-mill card
- Invasion of Ikoria -- it's Finale, what do you want
- Invasion of Kaldheim -- just a solid draw spell
- Invasion of Tolvada -- reanimation and a solid back side later
Then conversely, in the "back side is SO good it twists the game-state like a pretzel" we have:
- Invasion of Gobakhan -- back side is fantastic protection and easy to flip
- Invasion of Segovia -- Caetus is a war crime of a card
Outside of these six, I'd need a very good reason to run one. Admittedly I do also run Invasion of Archavios because I can go infinite with it and Displacer Kitten, heh.
spare marsh
I think that's pretty true
I think [[Invasion of Mercadia]] is playable in the right deck too since it's a version of a spell that's already playable, with a backside full of upside stapled onto it
hollow latchBOT
Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of Mercadia enters the battlefield, you may discard a card. If you do, draw two cards.
Defense: 4
Kyren Flamewright
Creature — Goblin Spellshaper
, , Discard a card: Create two 1/1 blue and red Elemental creature tokens. Creatures you control get +1/+0 and gain haste until end of turn.
Inspired by tales of the legendary hero Squee, many young Kyren goblins strove to emulate his magical skill and courage in the face of danger.
3/3
vivid pulsar
I think [[Invasion of Mercadia]] is playable in the right deck too since it's a ...
I’m not sure I’d play Tormenting Voice when there’s several variants at instant speed, but yeah
spare marsh
that's fair, I've seen it in a Birgi deck which had like 10 versions of that effect and that effect was quite good there
vivid pulsar
Fair!
gray mural
Thinking of playing [[invasion of moag]] in a bant counters deck
hollow latchBOT
Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of Moag enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.
Defense: 5
Bloomwielder Dryads
Creature — Dryad
Ward (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
At the beginning of your end step, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
Against the implacable will of Phyrexia, the dryads of Moag raised a shield of living summer.
3/3
graceful knot
I feel like there's two categories of battles --
In the "front side is playab...
[[Invasion of Alara]] may be colour restricted but it is also very very good
graceful knot
Also abdel Adrian makes Invasion of Zendikar very goood
I played it in my GW blink list for a good while
Being able to hit it down, flip it, use the mana then blink it to ramp more was extremely cool
rotund forge
I use [[invasion of ergamon]] and [[invasion of ravnica]] in [[Niv Mizzet Reborn]]
rotund forge
They're more niche to it but ergamon being a hit and at base making a treasure is actually really good for the deck.
But if I can flip it, I can either find any land or removal (the invasion of ravnica) if I can discard a card
[[Invasion of kaldheim]] is a card I keep looking at
rotund forge
I just don't know if it's worth 4 to cast
Oh, others i use that haven't been mentioned [[invasion of new capenna]] and [[invasion of fiora]]
hollow latchBOT
Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of New Capenna enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice an artifact or creature. When you do, exile target artifact or creature an opponent controls.
Defense: 4
Holy Frazzle-Cannon
Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature and each other creature you control that shares a creature type with it.
Equip
"They're using my Halo stockpile for what?" —Jetmir
rotund forge
New Capenna is being used in 2 typal decks (Angel/Clerics and Phyrexians) and Fiora is the big board wipe in Ashnod.
rotund forge
Also abdel Adrian makes Invasion of Zendikar very goood
I need to think about putting that in Lagrella
graceful knot
new cap I play in Elenda, fiora is in Dihada
rotund forge
I’m not sure I’d play Tormenting Voice when there’s several variants at instant ...
There are variants that aren't at instant speed that are playable. But usually if you want them it's because of the secondary effect. Like [[Bitter Reunion]]
hollow latchBOT
Enchantment
When Bitter Reunion enters the battlefield, you may discard a card. If you do, draw two cards.
, Sacrifice Bitter Reunion: Creatures you control gain haste until end of turn.
The peace summit proved the grudge between Urza and Mishra could end only in blood.
rotund forge
Which is great if you're going to want to have the haste burst or as a way to build in additional sacrifice (though that's probably after [[big score]]
tranquil sail
Anything I should consider adding to this?
rotund forge
Thoughts on [[displacer kitten]] here as a suggestion?
hollow latchBOT
tranquil sail
Potentially. Displacer is one of those cards that seems really good in theory? Especially the ability to keep on flickering Shorikai with each cast.
rotund forge
It can also reset planeswalkers
tranquil sail
That would actually be really funny with Tez
prime snow
So here's a question for people here -- it's been about a year since Battles wer...
Neato concept but the formatting hurts reading them and they're not really worth running right now for any of my decks yet. In fact, I kind of forgot they were added, which shouldn't be a thing for a new permament type.
cyan wharf
Hey would this be the place I can post a deck to see if its good or not?
spare marsh
for general feedback sure
if you want to go more in depth maybe make a thread in the parent forum #1020353936592470147
cyan wharf
thank you!!!
spare marsh
speaking of feedback... posted #1216973795378860175 a little bit ago and didn't get anything, anyone able to give some quick feedback? I stopped picking up un-reviewed lists a while ago, I really just value the sanity check
shrewd kiln
https://archidekt.com/decks/7126091/girl_on_fire_inferno_version
threw together this Chandra deck and need a whole lot of advice
native kayak
Need help for optimising https://archidekt.com/decks/7119680/wolf_20
vivid pulsar
Here's a philosophy question for y'all
If you're building a color-cropped deck, where you're turning Grixis colors into Rakdos, which of these cards are "legal"?
- Spellskite
- Gitaxian Probe
- Fierce Guardianship
- Ashiok, Dream Render
Oh heck, another contender enters -- where does Toxrill fall here?
graceful knot
I'd be following the commander colour identity rules, so none of them
spare marsh
yeah that's the way (though I would be mighty tempted by ashiok, mmm hybrid mana)
still hemlock
I'd be following the commander colour identity rules, so none of them
This is where I am too. Mayyyybe Ashiok or Toxrill get a pass
eager axle
No matter what hybrid defenders say, most of them are very much both colors.
heady flare
Hey real quick can anyone reset my neurons? EDHREC suggests manlands for Beluna Grandsquall and I can't figure out why they consider they would be worth it to run in that deck
spare marsh
EDHREC is weird sometimes
round mist
yeah, I don't see much synergy there, tbh. My best guess is that they are there as they are from the same set, which tends to skew the data a bit in the first 12 months or so
reef yacht
Mind If i get some feedback on this deck? It worked neat when I played it as a token generator aggro deck with a few edits, so I leaned more into it with further edits.
vagrant stream
Reanimator kess on a budgetish. Good? Bad? See any glaring problems?
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/7171548/reanimator_kess_from_wish
distant fog
Guys I need your help I have a friend of mine introduced to mtg and she really loves it, but isn't invested enough to build a deck herself; she is really into fantasy stuff and loves eleves, Dragons and fairy tales; but also the greek gods. The latest deck she bought was the Doctor Who precon with the 10th Doctor, a deck she really enjoys because its kinda complicated and you don't always need to pay for your stuff. Now I got a mission from her: "build me a higher power commander deck." And thats it I have no idea where to start and what to do
rotund forge
She specifically isn't interested in another precon as a starting point?
eager axle
Guys I need your help I have a friend of mine introduced to mtg and she really l...
I don't think you're gonna get elves/dragons/fairy tales/greek gods/free spells all in one, but there are options for each. :P
How high is higher power? For "high" but not cEDH, there's a lot you can do.
Dragons has a ton of support. Ur-Dragon, Miirym, Tiamat, Scion, etc.
Ramos is a dragon and can generate a bunch of mana to do whatever you want.
Kaalia can also do free Dragons (and Angels, and Demons which also fit fantasy).
Elves are also super well supported. The latest and greatest is Voja.
For greek gods, Esika can do God tribal and then you play all the Theros gods you want which are all Indestructible.
Eldraine has a bunch of fairy tale theming, but I don't know names off hand.
Also how much of a factor is budget? Going from precon -> high power custom deck can definitely be quite the price jump.
distant fog
Also how much of a factor is budget? Going from precon -> high power custom deck...
500$ or 450€ and it shouldn`t be a normal combat focused deck, more like I play solitair and after ... many turns I have a board to win with in 1/2 big swings. She likes a deck with a lot of synergy
distant fog
She specifically isn't interested in another precon as a starting point?
not really
distant fog
I don't think you're gonna get elves/dragons/fairy tales/greek gods/free spells ...
it hasn't to be a deck with all of them, one of them just should be the commander
rotund forge
Does she care about color? Like, going with another izzet or blue containing deck.
distant fog
Does she care about color? Like, going with another izzet or blue containing dec...
she is fine with any color
but idk about izzet or Jeskai deck, because she already has one
rotund forge
I don't think you're gonna get elves/dragons/fairy tales/greek gods/free spells ...
I don't know that I'd recommend Voja when Boss said didn't want combat
eager axle
I suggested it before they said that though. 😠
Though they also contradict that by then saying "win within 1/2 big swings".
rotund forge
I apparently am not able to read in sequence today.
distant fog
I suggested it before they said that though. 😠
Though they also contradict tha...
yeah but it shouldn't be a combo deck, but a deck taking its time doing stuff before ending the game, a deck not beeing agressive but just chilling doing little things putting a counter there and doing using this ability to draw cards...
eager axle
High powered and do subtle things over the course of many turns but suddenly win fast but without combo don't really go together. lol
rotund forge
[[Yasharn]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[Kutzil, malamet]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
Those are what come to mind based on that description
Not kutzil
[[Karametra, god of harvest]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[Sythis]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
Still... selesnya
eager axle
My first thought is boring BUG value goodstuff deck. lol
distant fog
High powered and do subtle things over the course of many turns but suddenly win...
don't tell me I'm asking because I have no idea putting this together
rotund forge
Sythis is basically assemble a value engine and then lock things down
eager axle
You're asking too many things and some of them directly counteract each other.
eager axle
Magic and EDH especially has basically infinite possibilities and you can do whichever things you want, and others can help achieve that want, but we can't pick the want. (And can't do all wants at once. :P)
distant fog
You're asking too many things and some of them directly counteract each other.
yeah ik but I'm trying on putting as many as possible together
rotund forge
Look into enchantress in general
distant fog
[[Athreos, Shroud-Veiled]] was something I found interesting, but idk how good he is
hollow latchBOT
eager axle
I like enchantress, but I've been struggling to figure out how to make it do anything interesting instead of just draw cards, cast win con.
eager axle
[[Athreos, Shroud-Veiled]] was something I found interesting, but idk how good h...
Too high mana cost, too slow for higher power. [[Athreos, God of Passage]] on the other hand.
hollow latchBOT
distant fog
[[Galazeth Prismari]] back to izzet again...
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Elder Dragon
Flying
When Galazeth Prismari enters the battlefield, create a Treasure token.
Artifacts you control have ": Add one mana of any color. Spend this mana only to cast an instant or sorcery spell."
3/4
distant fog
Too high mana cost, too slow for higher power. [[Athreos, God of Passage]] on th...
[[Will, Scion of Peace]]what you think
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Vigilance
: Spells you cast this turn that are white and/or blue cost 
less to cast, where X is the amount of life you gained this turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
"It's easy to cry 'For glory!' and charge those who disagree with you. But it takes finesse to turn enemies into allies rather than corpses."
2/4
eager axle
Sure, he could be good. I think I like him a little better in the 99, but cost reduction is always good.
rotund forge
I like enchantress, but I've been struggling to figure out how to make it do any...
My enchantress deck is [[Narci]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[Narci|CMM]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
eager axle
I barely even know sagas. lol
This is what I run: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uz26Bn3cEUuV9x61pZGFxA
This is hypothesizing splitting off just the Enchantress portion (I'd do tokens in a separate deck then): https://www.moxfield.com/decks/J91vEe-EzECi5Ki9wd78mQ
distant fog
Too high mana cost, too slow for higher power. [[Athreos, God of Passage]] on th...
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/W5cxDz8wCkqdr6oFYZysEA the strongest enemie deck
rotund forge
[[Athreos, Shroud-Veiled]] was something I found interesting, but idk how good h...
What about [[Ratadrabik]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Zombie Wizard
Vigilance, ward
Other Zombies you control have vigilance.
Whenever another legendary creature you control dies, create a token that's a copy of that creature, except it's not legendary and it's a 2/2 black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.
3/3
eager axle
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/W5cxDz8wCkqdr6oFYZysEA the strongest enemie deck
Ok, pretty strong, but not super high power. I think Athreos (small one) or Ratadrabik there would be a good match if you want to do the WB recursion plan.
distant fog
Ok, pretty strong, but not super high power. I think Athreos (small one) or Rata...
it wasn't for the plan just a theoros god
but I will ask her about the smat god
eager axle
Small Athreos is great. You usually build for a lot of sacrifice and recursion and people will pay the 3 life often early, but as their life totals dwindle, it's a serious consideration.
round mist
I think the easiest way would be if you first created an updated list that you like, and then, we can chime in with what you might have missed
round mist
Guys I need your help I have a friend of mine introduced to mtg and she really l...
Generally, all the Theros gods could be interesting places to start, depending on the kinds of playstiles they like, cards available and what you are planning to do. For example, Kruphix draw- go could easily be higher power, but less creature- focused - or you do Xenagos, and play all the big hydras and creatures with ward etc.
spare marsh
Generally, all the Theros gods could be interesting places to start, depending o...
seconding Theros gods, they're so fun
Iroas is one of my favorite decks at the moment
trim rock
I hope we get some new Theros Gods in MH3.
We've been teased about that hydra lady forever but we don't know if she's a god or a demigod.
queen ivy
Just copy paste the link to the decklist
vagrant gate
Fair enough just wasn't sure if every website embedded
graceful knot
Okay so like, I'm trying to build [[gandalf secret fire]] currently as part of an "oops all gandalfs" project.
I've been looking through YouTube decktechs with my morning coffee and I'm not sure how a single one of these actually wins a game. They all seem able to participate, but to seemingly no end? Jeskai spellslinger has always felt like combo or nothing to me, and as much as I want to avoid that I'm concerned I won't be able to.
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/aGoQB9npwUukyparvoZMlA
I think I am fairly happy with... this? Ignore manabase its placeholder. I'd ideally like to add more white to this but with it currently being somewhat functional I am slightly concerned about making further changes.
queen ivy
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/aGoQB9npwUukyparvoZMlA
I think I am *fairly* hap...
I think you could definitely do some kind of stormy list, or you could do extra turns via nexus of fate, or even just lots of goodstuff instants and sorceries and all the [[guttersnipe]] effects
hollow latchBOT
queen ivy
That list looks solid
You might swap out some stuff for things like [[fiery inscription]]
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
I honestly don't rate those effects super highly! Having played my share of them, the damage adds up sure but it just means people turn and kill you at around 10-15 because they don't want the risk
Same as [[Ingenious artillerist]] for rocco was left out because it forces aggro your way
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
I honestly don't rate those effects super highly! Having played my share of them...
I've worked out at this point If you put them in you're intending on comboing off within a turn.
You being the generic brewer
[[Blood artists]] that trigger off of everything and target have more wiggle room in how much additional threat they generate.
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
As opposed to [[zulaport cutthroat]] or [[poison tip archer]]
graceful knot
Death triggers are also boardwipe protection/dissuasion while artillerist effects are pure aggro bringers
rotund forge
It's part of why when I'm brewing [[vihaan]] I've got [[disciple of the vault]] in and not Reckless Fireweaver
rotund forge
I know you can combo off with him, but I'm a little more interested in asymmetrical punishment
graceful knot
[[Blood artists]] that trigger off of everything and target have more wiggle roo...
There's usually a lifegain player or somebody who's much higher and nobody faults you for pinging them
Even them!
They're just like "yeah fair enough"
But yeah, so I didn't want to include those except for Tzaangor because it has an additional effect that is also better with paradox haze and is a useful recycling tool
rotund forge
I highly suggest [[synthesis pod]]
hollow latchBOT
Artifact
( can be paid with either or 2 life.)
, , Exile a spell you control: Target opponent reveals cards from the top of their library until they reveal a card with mana value equal to 1 plus the exiled spell's mana value. Exile that card, then that player shuffles. You may cast that exiled card without paying its mana cost.
graceful knot
Really? Any particular reason?
I love the card, but I didn't see a lot of use for it here. I feel its best in theft decks and "cast from exile" decks, which while this has the capacity to be, it is neither
rotund forge
Or [[river song's diary]]
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
I have [[rod of absorbtion]] since it doesn't say "from hand" so can catch my spells that come from suspend, which diary cannot
hollow latchBOT
Artifact
Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell, exile it instead of putting it into a graveyard as it resolves.
, , Sacrifice Rod of Absorption: You may cast any number of spells from among cards exiled with Rod of Absorption with total mana value X or less without paying their mana costs.
rotund forge
Re pod It may have to do more with narset being included
Diary catches opponents spells too though.
And it let's you filter removal between them
Rod can also grab spells cast with river's book.
graceful knot
I want my narset spells to resolve usually but it can grab other peoples and pod I guess
rotund forge
Though... [[third path iconoclast]] or [[saheeli, sublime]] work well with sorcerer class and/or galazeth.
graceful knot
I do have diary spare
rotund forge
Since they give more bodies.
... I just thought of a really overly complicated saheeli deck...
graceful knot
Not running Gaz, we have one in our pod already and there's not enough artifacts I'd like to tap for mana. Saheeli I might include but not sure of a cut yet.
Saheeli has won me games before, great card.
I'd run pod in narset if she was the cz
But with gandalf in there it's a lot less certain I'll have options I want to exile for possible value
tribal sail
I use [[shorikai, genesis engine]] for my stax deck.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Artifact — Vehicle
, : Draw two cards, then discard a card. Create a 1/1 colorless Pilot creature token with "This creature crews Vehicles as though its power were 2 greater."
Crew 8 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 8 or more: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)
Shorikai, Genesis Engine can be your commander.
8/8
pale monolith
? Does anyone know of all the catds that give you something unless ure opponent pays to stop it like smothering tithe and that
prime snow
[[otag:rhystic]]
hollow latchBOT
still hemlock
[[otag:rhystic]]
scryfall bot sadly not that sophisticated
vivid pulsar
... I just thought of a really overly complicated saheeli deck...
Hey, now is the time to buy all the cool Saheeli things, since Fomori seem to be mechanically focused around artifact clone tokens 🤔
rotund forge
Pretty much
rotund forge
Fwiw idea was realizing how silly [[senator peacock]] is with [[academy manufactor]] and any artifact token maker. Yes, it means you don't get the original token because of the replacement effects but it's funny.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Advisor
Artifacts you control are Clues in addition to their other types and have ", Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card."
Whenever you sacrifice a Clue, target creature can't be blocked this turn.
3/4
distant fog
How do you playtest decks for yourself?
I mean before you play with your friends
And if moxfield gices you only 0land hands and you play 37?
eager axle
Moxfield. And if I get 0 lands despite playing 37 I mull ||and think about all the decklists I see with <35 and how they must cheat or just be okay with taking the total coinflip on games. :P||
rotund forge
How do you playtest decks for yourself?
To start, I spam draw a hand a few hundred times to both think about what hands I think are keepable and which aren't. I adjust things if it feels like less than half of those hands were keepable.
Then I start trying the hands that I think are keepable and see how accurate that has been. That's when I start trying to learn how to mulligan the deck.
vivid pulsar
Has anyone tried building [[Ovika, Enigma Goliath]]? How was she? I'm considering swapping my Locust God deck to become Ovika, especially with the new plot mechanic!
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Nightmare
Flying
Ward—, Pay 3 life.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, create X 1/1 red Phyrexian Goblin creature tokens, where X is the mana value of that spell. They gain haste until end of turn.
6/6
reef yacht
Has anyone tried building [[Ovika, Enigma Goliath]]? How was she? I'm considerin...
I have one built but I just made it focused with a million mana rocks and a ton of janky shit
opal roost
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/bND7m7dN-USVsK_qRSjumA
Can somebody look over this Amalia soul sisters list? I appreciate any help I can get.
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Vampire Warlock
Menace
Whenever you gain life, you may pay 
. If you do, return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Some Strixhaven study groups are more welcoming than others.
3/3
trim rock
[[Marshland Bloodcaster]]
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Vampire Warlock
Flying
, : Rather than pay the mana cost of the next spell you cast this turn, you may pay life equal to that spell's mana value.
Blood magic is more artery than science.
3/5
trim rock
Mmmmmm... I see that you have 31 lands but no mana rocks.
While it can be reliable to use Amalia's Explore ability to get lands, it IS crucial to also have other sources of mana to more quickly cast useful and versatile spells or in case you no longer have Amalia out on the field. Relying on something like Lotho to make Treasures won't always happen every game.
[[Even a Pristine Talisman]] can trigger Amalia's ability and also make additional mana for you.
hollow latchBOT
Artifact
: Add 
. You gain 1 life.
"Tools and artisans can be destroyed, but the act of creation is inviolate." —Elspeth Tirel
trim rock
I also think you should add [[The Gaffer]] it works with Delney and since you will be aiming to gain a lot of life, will definitely be a consistent draw engine.
hollow latchBOT
trim rock
Also the other two cards above were possible suggestions to add to your deck.
Overall though you have a very strong gameplan set in stone in this deck and I appreciate the good amount of protection and recursion you have to ensure it runs smoothly but mana is Magic and it might not hurt to add even just a Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, Talisman of Hiearchy and the like to ensure consistency. @opal roost
opal roost
Ooh Veinwitch Coven is spicy
eager axle
31 lands and almost no card draw is definitely a risky choice.
modest birch
Hi, I see frequently Araumi of the dead tide in Obeka brute chronologist. Does the latter makes the encore cost permanent?
queen ivy
[[araumi dead]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
, Exile cards from your graveyard equal to the number of opponents you have: Target creature card in your graveyard gains encore until end of turn. The encore cost is equal to its mana cost. (Exile the creature card and pay its mana cost: For each opponent, create a token copy that attacks that opponent this turn if able. They gain haste. Sacrifice them at the beginning of the next end step. Activate only as a sorcery.)
1/4
queen ivy
Yes
modest birch
Thank you 🙂
eager axle
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/AykKvvfxCU-34gYlRVRXgQ - Looking for 1 cut immediately, open to thoughts on additional future cuts.
I have some in mind but curious what others think.
round mist
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/AykKvvfxCU-34gYlRVRXgQ - Looking for 1 cut immedi...
I'd probably cut Narset, as you don't have many good ways to protect her, or abuse her in your favour
graceful knot
Manabase will see some minimal changes, but what do we think of this for Atsushi Voltron? Not trying to combo, just trying to do a fairly casual but somewhat early (my groups early game is T1-5, very much a "first relevant card will be turn 4" kinda vibe) threatening punchy atsushi list.
I'm sad [[!command Plate]] has gone up so very much or it'd be a great addition.
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
[[$command plate]]
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
Like, yeesh
queen ivy
Jesus christ wtf? Last i looked it was $20
graceful knot
I forgot it kinda just... hasn't been reprintes
And now won't be until the next Commander Premium set because its too expensive for precon reprint equity and doesn't fit anywhere else
rotund forge
This is an interesting list. Thoughts on [[Ganax|CLB]]?
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Dragon
Flying
Whenever Ganax, Astral Hunter or another Dragon enters the battlefield under your control, create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
Choose a Background (You can have a Background as a second commander.)
3/4
graceful knot
Thought about it, not enough dragons to make it work.
If I retool for dragons its on my board in
rotund forge
Yeah, it triggers for all the copies/tokens.
I need to put nesting dragon in my Ganax...
graceful knot
The copies aren't reliably findable in a given game, or I'd be more up on it. Also, going exactly +1 in treasure on specific events isn't enough to justify the slot to me honestly
Not at 5 mana anywah
If I went into dragons I'd be on like, the new MKM mythic dragon, Dragon Cultist, nesting, valkas etc.
But I don't like Kindred decks generally
So tried to focus on strategy over Kindred supporting options
rotund forge
It's my combo-loving brain more than typal strategies
graceful knot
This is an interesting list. Thoughts on [[Ganax|CLB]]?
I was surprised to see so little on the voltron strat for atsushi. He pays his own tax or gets card draw in red, has evasion AND trample, appropriate stats in an aggressive colour
rotund forge
Ganax and any cycle of Atsushi means you get 4 treasure total.
rotund forge
It was Orthion that made me think about it
graceful knot
I'll combo off in the next deck list I promise 😅
Huh. Orthion with [[draconic destiny]] and [[faces of the past]] could combo off in an izzet dragon list
hollow latchBOT
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has flying, haste, and ": This creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn." It's a Dragon in addition to its other types.
When enchanted creature dies, return Draconic Destiny to its owner's hand.
rotund forge
I just use really bad combos.
rotund forge
Huh. Orthion with [[draconic destiny]] and [[faces of the past]] could combo off...
That's... actually really funny
graceful knot
I've been working on Wizards under [[gandalf the grey]] as a faces combo list, I'll maybe tag you in a post for that later.
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
And it plays into the nascent idea my brain has had for a bit with "they might be dragons" for [[Sarkhan|MAT]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Shaman
Dragon spells you cast cost less to cast.
Whenever a Dragon enters the battlefield under your control, you may have Sarkhan, Soul Aflame become a copy of it until end of turn, except its name is Sarkhan, Soul Aflame and it's legendary in addition to its other types.
2/4
rotund forge
or [[Goro-Goro and Satoru]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Goblin Human
Whenever one or more creatures you control that entered the battlefield this turn deal combat damage to a player, create a 5/5 red Dragon Spirit creature token with flying.
: Creatures you control gain haste until end of turn.
3/4
reef yacht
So I got Stroke of Midnight and Cataclysm for this deck. So now I need help in cutting cards for those.
obtuse dagger
i've had very little succes with VATS. idk if you wanna keep it in for flavor but for me the card didnt do much so far.
rotund forge
I think you could do with one or two more. I don't know how I feel about Gale in this list
I know it isn't a wizard but [[baral and Kari zev]] or the new [[lilah]]?
rotund forge
[[Lilah|otj]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
With gale you have to pay the mana for the spell you cast from your graveyard
round mist
on a related note, [[wild magic sorcerer]] should be clutch here
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
on a related note, [[wild magic sorcerer]] should be clutch here
Eris doesn't exile though?
The cards I was mentioning were suggestions instead of [[gale of waterdeep]] that weren't in the deck.
rotund forge
[[Gale, waterdeep prodigy]]
hollow latchBOT
round mist
Eris doesn't exile though?
doesn't plot exile? and cascade?
rotund forge
Yes, there are just only 9 cards in the list that exile to cast combined? One does it repeatedly (Stella)
There are a lot of effects that mean you don't cast from your hand though. If you're OK with UB [[The twelfth doctor]] would copy the first spell not cast from your hand
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
Demonstrating [[high tide]] is now a goal...
hollow latchBOT
Instant
Until end of turn, whenever a player taps an Island for mana, that player adds an additional .
"Close the walls! Retract the docks! The homarids are coming!" —Benson, Argivian sentry
rotund forge
Yes, I would like 3x high tides in a turn for 1 mana expended.
worldly river
Hello!
Whats the difference between posting a deck here or making your own post at this channel?
graceful knot
Here is generally for shorter easier questions or reviews, while making your own post is usually better for multiple decks, longer discussions
But also some folks find the post board irritating and hard to parse (very fair imo)
So having this place too is nice
eager axle
I think of here for general non deck-specific questions or deck questions that don't require much discussion. e.g. Looking for 1 cut
vagrant gate
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NbA0uLJV-keODYAdk49W2Q
I'm so conflicted what to get rid of
please help
round mist
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NbA0uLJV-keODYAdk49W2Q
I'm so conflicted what to ...
I would say, you have to make a decision whether to prioritize the vampires or the blood tokens. If you want to prioritize the vampires, cut most of the non- vampires and cards that exclusively care about artifacts or tokens; if you want to ptioritize the tokens, cut the vampire and vampire cards, except for the most impactful ones
vagrant gate
I would say, you have to make a decision whether to prioritize the vampires or t...
so either make it a vamp big buff priority deck or a artifact deck that prioritizes blood token artifact generation?
I mean i could also build two separate versions of the deck
vagrant gate
I'll make up my mind ty!!!
still dew
So… I was building a Gyome deck when I was looking at an interaction between [[Chatterfang, squirrel general]] and [[Peregrin Took]], and I was thinking that they could cause an infinite. Since if I create a food token, I would create a food token with took, and then a squirrel token with Chatter, which would cause took to create a food, then chatter to create a squirrel, and so on and so forth.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Squirrel Warrior
Forestwalk (This creature can't be blocked as long as defending player controls a Forest.)
If one or more tokens would be created under your control, those tokens plus that many 1/1 green Squirrel creature tokens are created instead.
, Sacrifice X Squirrels: Target creature gets +X/-X until end of turn.
3/3
Legendary Creature — Halfling Citizen
If one or more tokens would be created under your control, those tokens plus an additional Food token are created instead. (It's an artifact with ", , Sacrifice this artifact: You gain 3 life.")
Sacrifice three Foods: Draw a card.
"Sam! Get breakfast ready for half-past nine!"
2/3
still dew
I will not be surprised if I am completely wrong on this point, but I just want to know other people’s opinions and viewpoints
still hemlock
tldr: it doesn't work that way
both peregrin took and chatterfang apply a replacement effect to a "create X token" event, but each replacement effect can only apply once to a single event. So if you create some amount of tokens, you would also create that many squirrels and an additional food token. That's it
still dew
Ok thank you
still dew
So this is the deck list I have now for my Gyome deck, and I just want any suggestions/insights for how I could upgrade and change the deck to make it better, without being too expensive
opal roost
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/p3qyWMhtdEKA7_RQpT1v1Q
Your link isn't working.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/q-5jPOFcUUasvIKmqqt71A
Can somebody help me make 7-9 cuts or suggest good cards I'm missing for new Breeches? Goal is to cast big X spells so even if I miss the coin flip, I still get to dome somebody for a lot of damage anyway.
round mist
Ok thank you
you know what does work, tho? [[pitiless plunderer]]
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Human Pirate
Whenever another creature you control dies, create a Treasure token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
"Shame to let good gold go to the grave."
1/4
opal roost
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/p3qyWMhtdEKA7_RQpT1v1Q
what's the deck's plan to win the game?
craterhoof getting there?
I'd add [[arcbound ravager]] and as a free artifact sac outlet and [[extruder]] as a second one that buffs the rest of your board before dying next turn. you have a lot of damage on token leaving, which is good, but no way to sac your tokens for free multiple times per turn. [[krark clan ironworks]] is way better at this, but it's also 40 dollars so it may be out of budget.
hollow latchBOT
Artifact Creature — Juggernaut
Echo 
(At the beginning of your upkeep, if this came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay its echo cost.)
Sacrifice an artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
As the invasion drew closer, Urza's means began to resemble Phyrexia's end.
4/3
Artifact
Sacrifice an artifact: Add .
All the junk, refuse, and offal of the Krark Clan is diligently collected, melted down, and made into more junk, refuse, and offal.
opal roost
If you want more of this effect, [[rusted slasher]] is the next best one, followed by [[thermal navigator]] as the worst one that still fulfills the role of sacrificing artifacts for cost at instant speed without any mana cost attached.
opal roost
also you should probably go to 36 lands to be honest.
[[maraleaf elder]] falls between the ones I think you should definitely add, but before those other two.
hollow latchBOT
opal roost
This one helps when you have to push for lethal.
opal roost
anyway, I need help making cuts.
still dew
Ok thanks
vivid pulsar
Hello y'all, I need some help reinvigorating my commander suite and filling out my set of ten two-color pairs! I'm trying to find several new commanders to fill in gaps among my current decks, and I'd love opinions or experiences 😄
A few restrictions:
- Each proposed commander must be either two or three colors (to fit into the "gaps" below).
- Any proposed commander must be from Magic's own universe (ie, not from a Universes Beyond set)
- The commander must be available in at least one non-precon foil printing.
- The deck must be of an archetype at least reasonably different from my four "forever" decks (bolded below).
- I strongly prefer non-male commanders when possible (ie, they should be either female or of unclear gender), at least for humanoid or sapient characters.
- Ideally, any proposed commander would not be in the top ~150 of EDHRec's popularity ranking.
- I strongly prefer commanders who can helm strong decks without any clean, 1-card combos with the commander (so something like Stella Lee is out, unless you can suggest a build not relying on untap spells).
- I strongly prefer commanders who don't win by "haha I just do value and goodstuff, I'll get there eventually somehow..."
- Lower mana values are a plus.
Got any thoughts, under these restrictions? 🤔 I'm eager to hear anything y'all can suggest!
- WU: ????
- WB: Teysa Orzhov Scion (superfriends & tokens -- not being replaced)
- WR: Archangel Avacyn (blink & stax -- not being replaced)
- WG: Yenna, Redtooth Regent (enchantress -- not being replaced)
- UB: ???? (might become Araumi?)
- UG: ???? (might try and rebuild some kind of proliferate-storm)
- UR: ????
- BR: ???? (if the new Marchesa doesn't work out)
- BG: ???? (currently Hapatra, but she might get taken apart soon)
- RG: Wort, the Raidmother (landfall & storm -- not being replaced)
still dew
Maybe you could build a deck around [[Veyran, voice of duality]] for Blue/red
hollow latchBOT
trim rock
I think I'd consider trying [[Hanna, Ship's Navigator]], [[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade]], or [[Errant and Giada]] for Azorius
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
, : Return target artifact or enchantment card from your graveyard to your hand.
"I never thought I'd spend my life fighting. I'm a maker, not a destroyer."
1/2
trim rock
As for Simic proliferate storm. The best ones would be [[Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres]] (But he's a Compleated guy) or [[Verazol, the Split Current]] (Hard to know if they are a gal or not XD)
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Elf Warrior
When Ezuri, Stalker of Spheres enters the battlefield, you may pay . If you do, proliferate twice.
Whenever you proliferate, draw a card.
"Ah, my old friends. Have you decided at last to stop clinging to the past and join me in the grand pursuit of perfection?"
3/3
spare marsh
does CLB count as within Magic's universe?
because I will always shill for [[Shadowheart, Dark Justiciar]] and a background of your choice (I personally play [[Cloakwood Hermit]] but [[Master Chef]] also seems solid)
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Elf Cleric
, , Sacrifice another creature: Draw X cards, where X is that creature's power.
Choose a Background (You can have a Background as a second commander.)
"Shar's will shall be done. As sure as night will fall."
3/4
rotund forge
WU is being so annoying while looking for options
Non-UB and a non-commander foil printing are apparently really hard
And, much as I love Hylda she's 142
On UR, I've heard good things about where [[dalakos]] is now
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Merfolk Artificer
: Add . Spend this mana only to cast artifact spells or activate abilities of artifacts.
Equipped creatures you control have flying and haste.
His imagination soars from the depths of the sea to the heights of the heavens.
2/4
rotund forge
Because of the influx of living weapons last year
still dew
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/p3qyWMhtdEKA7_RQpT1v1Q ok so I made some cuts to this deck, anymore suggestions?
Should I add more removal/board wipes to the deck?
round mist
UR artifact tokens are a thing, with [[brudiclad]] or [[saheeli, sun's brilliance]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
, : Create a token that's a copy of another target creature or artifact you control, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types. It gains haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
What began as a single gift for Huatli became a battalion of automatons unlike anything ever seen on Ixalan.
2/2
round mist
BG has a lot of werd typal options, plus grindy- stuff. [[nemata, primeval warden]] or [[the mycotyrant]] might be worth a look.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Treefolk
Reach
If a creature an opponent controls would die, exile it instead. When you do, create a 1/1 green Saproling creature token.
, Sacrifice a Saproling: Nemata, Primeval Warden gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
, Sacrifice two Saprolings: Draw a card.
3/4
rotund forge
I just checked, I was sure that brudiclad was above rank 150 on edhrec, but no,
prime snow
Hello y'all, I need some help reinvigorating my commander suite and filling out ...
[[Zethi, Arcane Blademaster]] for WU perhaps
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Soldier
Multikicker 
When Zethi, Arcane Blademaster enters the battlefield, exile up to X target instant cards from your graveyard, where X is the number of times Zethi was kicked. Put a kick counter on each of them.
Whenever Zethi attacks, copy each exiled card you own with a kick counter on it. You may cast the copies.
3/3
rotund forge
Zethi doesn't have a foil version
THe only foil is the Chun-Li so it fails the non-commander, non-UB foil restriction
opal roost
You could build [[Hylda of the Ice Crown]] even if you don’t like it the deck is dirt cheap.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Warlock
Whenever you tap an untapped creature an opponent controls, you may pay . When you do, choose one —
• Create a 4/4 white and blue Elemental creature token.
• Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.
• Scry 2, then draw a card.
3/4
opal roost
[[Esior]] and [[Yoshimaru]] is a pretty competent voltron partner pair.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Bird
Flying
Spells your opponents cast that target one or more commanders you control cost more to cast.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
1/3
rotund forge
You could build [[Hylda of the Ice Crown]] even if you don’t like it the deck is...
Hylda is too high on the EDHRec ranking
vivid pulsar
Hylda also has two (more or less) 1-card combos thanks to Junk Winder and Opposition, which is what caused me not to build her when she came out (since I'm willing to forgive a lot if I could finally find a fun WU deck after all these years)
rotund forge
Hylda also has two (more or less) 1-card combos thanks to Junk Winder and Opposi...
I really did spend a lot of time thinking about WU commanders that fit in your category and it's basically [[Ayesha|DMC]] and [[Lavinia|CLU]]
rotund forge
The limited event version was in foil
Otherwise it's a combo of: easy combo; no non-commander foil; UB, or no foil
vivid pulsar
Otherwise it's a combo of: easy combo; no non-commander foil; UB, or no foil
Yeah, I've kinda accepted that I may have to color-crop something into Azorius
Maybe [[Elsha the Infinite]] into Azorius or something idk
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[Rigo]] maybe?
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[Rigo, streetwise]]
hollow latchBOT
silent marten
Heya I'm relatively new to commander and MTG, I need some help with my [[Intet, the Dreamer]], with a special surprise of Forbidden Orchird and Faith's Reward, any advise considering this the first tribal-ish deck I'm planning to do... https://www.archidekt.com/decks/7391436/intet_deck
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Dragon
Flying
Whenever Intet, the Dreamer deals combat damage to a player, you may pay . If you do, exile the top card of your library face down. You may look at that card for as long as it remains exiled. You may play that card without paying its mana cost for as long as Intet remains on the battlefield.
6/6
graceful knot
Man I really just can't play spellslinger. Not cause its hard, but because theres exactly zero joy in it for me. I just cannot find a variant of "cast instants and sorceries" thats fun and its driving me a little insane
I have been trying for like, two years now and have never managed to have one built for more than a week because I never like them for reasons I find nebulous and unhelpful when it comes to changing them to be "fun"
queen ivy
What do you like to do?
graceful knot
the unhelpful answer is play permanents
I like setting up opaque value engines that can chain together to either win the game through taking lots of actions (sorta like storm) or casting a never ending supply of 5-7 drops that warp the game with their powerful effects
it doesnt seem like spellslinger should be difficult and yet
Im gonna sit down and try windgrace and failing that veyran
maybe ill get somewhere
queen ivy
the unhelpful answer is play permanents
Could try [[bria riptide rogue]]
hollow latchBOT
queen ivy
She was fun when I tried it I just don’t like spellsligner that much
graceful knot
moood
still hemlock
Man I really just can't play spellslinger. Not cause its hard, but because there...
Then why try to force it?
Don’t play archetypes that don’t bring you joy, it’s that easy 🤷♂️
graceful knot
So many cards in the archetype I adore that arent really playable elsewhere, storm kings thunder for instance
shrewd kiln
yeah, I think Bria and the go-wide prowess decks are your best options here
queen ivy
You could always do the tried-and-true [[kykar]]
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Bird Wizard
Flying
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, create a 1/1 white Spirit creature token with flying.
Sacrifice a Spirit: Add .
"The raging gale fans the flames of righteous wrath."
3/3
graceful knot
I had kykar for a bit, cool guy
queen ivy
All your spells come with permanents
There’s a million and a half ways to build him too
graceful knot
I've cobbled together a Veyran but testing will have to wait till after work
shrewd kiln
build the [[Monastery Mentor]] deck
hollow latchBOT
shrewd kiln
"my cantrip increased my total creature power by 12. good luck!"
still hemlock
So many *cards* in the archetype I adore that arent really playable elsewhere, s...
I do love storm king’s thunder
graceful knot
It's just such a cool card
But it really requires a quite specific deck
Honestly I'm tempted to build a deck that specifically Storm King's the prisoners dilemma. Force people to play it morally (never snitch) or simply die
Ah well. On another topic, I'm doing [[slogurk]]/[[clearing cutter]] on the side currently, using mill and land recursion to do stuff
What would be your favourite flashback/disturb/spells that can cast from graveyard and fit the vibe of simic land-grave stuff?
graceful knot
[[Bonny pall]]
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
Currently working with things like [[genesis]] and [[River kelpie]]
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Incarnation
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Genesis is in your graveyard, you may pay . If you do, return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Not dryad, centaur, or avatar but life itself.
4/4
graceful knot
[[trackers insight]] vibe basically
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
[[Trackers instinct]]
hollow latchBOT
Sorcery
Reveal the top four cards of your library. Put a creature card from among them into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.
Flashback (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
royal pewter
does anyone have any good techs or includes for [[caesar legions emporer]]
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
Id be sold on [[anim pakal]]
hollow latchBOT
hollow latchBOT
Artifact Creature — Gnome
Threefold Thunderhulk enters the battlefield with three +1/+1 counters on it.
Whenever Threefold Thunderhulk enters the battlefield or attacks, create a number of 1/1 colorless Gnome artifact creature tokens equal to its power.
, Sacrifice another artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Threefold Thunderhulk.
0/0
reef yacht
Quick question. I need a 2cmc Rakdos Removal for this deck. I have a floating slot I need to fill.
Or something that would synnergize
spare marsh
[[molten collapse]] ?
hollow latchBOT
reef yacht
Anything for instants?
queen ivy
Quick question. I need a 2cmc Rakdos Removal for this deck. I have a floating sl...
[[infernal grasp]]
hollow latchBOT
still hemlock
[[zoyowa's collapse]][[bitter triumph]]?
still hemlock
[[zoyowa's justice]]
hollow latchBOT
reef yacht
So i just ordered a copy of The One Ring. What card should I cut for it in the deck since I bought it for this deck specifically? I was thinking on cutting Well of lost dreams but I would like feedback.
graceful knot
Well is sooo good too though
Serras guardian is uh, kinda naff
Likely wouldn't miss it to run two powerful draw effects like those
reef yacht
trying to not cut creatures. For some reason in this deck thats all about creatures I end up only seeing like 8 of them in any given game
reef yacht
i can see that. Someone else also suggested cut Archivist of Ohgma which I also think I should cut cuz is relevant in 0 games I've played it in.
still hemlock
oh yeah then there you go
reef yacht
Thing is, If I cut Archivist, I would like to add either another support creature or another angel that slaps
I have quite a few in my collection, but IDK which one I would end up adding. Thinking on adding [[Radiant Archangel]]
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
Huh. I knew Radiant must have an older card, but that's way stronger than I thought
rotund forge
Radiant's really cool and underappreciated.
reef yacht
Radiant's really cool and underappreciated.
Should I re-add her?
vernal spear
Trying to pick between Eldrazi and Dragons for my [[Isshin]] deck because I want it to have a theme. Any suggestions?
hollow latchBOT
graceful knot
Hm. Hard pick honestly
They're both strong, high cmc archetypes. I think dragons end up stronger overall but eldrazi will not be far behind and are maybe a little more oppressive.
Getting access to the Flicker eldrazi is really nice too.
prime snow
Trying to pick between Eldrazi and Dragons for my [[Isshin]] deck because I want...
Samurais are starting ya in the face with the "attack alone" theme, plus exalted.
Stuff like [[Sublime Archangel]]
hollow latchBOT
vernal spear
Samurais are starting ya in the face with the "attack alone" theme, plus exalted...
Yeah, but I already have a lot of Eldrazi and a full set of the ancient dragons from the D&D sets.
prime snow
[[Ancient gold]]
hollow latchBOT
prime snow
Yeah, but I already have a lot of Eldrazi and a full set of the ancient dragons ...
Ancient dragons won't be doubled by the effect
vernal spear
ZAMN😭 Eldrazi it is…
vernal spear
Struggling again, sorry for back to back posting. Should I go for Artifact/Stax theme on [[Tameshi]] or should I go for vehicles or should I go for sagas? I know this probably sounds a little overdone but I want somewhat high power on a somewhat low budget and I want to use the Kamigawa showcase cards if I can.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Moonfolk Wizard
Whenever one or more noncreature permanents are returned to hand, draw a card. This ability triggers only once each turn.
, Return a land you control to its owner's hand: Return target artifact or enchantment card with mana value X or less from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
2/3
graceful knot
Struggling again, sorry for back to back posting. Should I go for Artifact/Stax ...
The classic high power low budget for tameshi is artifact combo
vernal spear
👍😼Thanks!
graceful knot
But enchantments are strong and never bad (you can continually bring back [[standstill]], fuckin ew)
hollow latchBOT
vernal spear
But enchantments are strong and never *bad* (you can continually bring back [[st...
Yeah for enchantments so far I had Standstill, Remora and the seals but that’s it.
graceful knot
i really like that it incentivises using things like claim jumper and archeomancers map and whites other catchup ramp
quiet knot
But enchantments are strong and never *bad* (you can continually bring back [[st...
I have standstill in my [[Leela sevateem]] deck, lol
hollow latchBOT
shrewd kiln
https://archidekt.com/decks/7428503/hand_me_downs
so uh this is a pile of cards I need help adding a whole lot to
https://archidekt.com/decks/6340214/spectrum
also needing help in trimming down this deck once I've added all Gate support known to man
primal canyon
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/szS4Eb0jqk27UoeotgUrCQ can some one help me steer In the right direction to make this deck better I'm trying to make a token deck kinda like white weenies thinking about proliferates and populate cards
round mist
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/szS4Eb0jqk27UoeotgUrCQ can some one help me steer...
So, this seems to still be quite thematic and close-ish to the 40K-Precon. How much rebuilding are you envisioning? Just switching out a couple of cards, or a hard rebuild from the ground up, but keeping as many cards as make sense?
primal canyon
I'm trying to switch out a few cards so the deck stays on the token building theme
I was thinking of mixing some cards from fallout like [[vault 76 overseer]]
hollow latchBOT
primal canyon
Some proliferate to take advantage of counter buffing and ramping cards like eve flowing chalice I do have a black market was debating if that would be over kill
round mist
I'm trying to switch out a few cards so the deck stays on the token building th...
Cool. Give me a bit of time and let me see what I can come up with. Generally, speaking, of course, you could just throw in a couple of token doublers or counter doublers, but I want to see what what makes sense without diluting the overall deck too much
primal canyon
Amazing that's exactly what I was concerned with
royal pewter
Hmmm. My Tasigur Volrath list would be better off as Kydele & Tevesh.
eager axle
Kydele is the opposite of what my Volrath deck usually needs. Please stop topdecking only mana from turn 7 onward 😭
royal pewter
Apparently Volrath is the opposite of what my Sultai deck needs. 
queen ivy
Hmmm. My ~~Tasigur~~ Volrath list would be better off as Kydele & Tevesh.
Kydele + Tevesh sounds like a nasty combo
Get kydele, at the very least use her to cast tevesh and make 2 tokens, then sac token draw cards and drop a fatty
royal pewter
Yep
Dropped on my head like a coconut as I walked under the palm trees of inspiration.
queen ivy
… interesting description but I’ll take it
round mist
I was thinking of mixing some cards from fallout like [[vault 76 overseer]]
Here you go: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fQWzKklkHUKMBuDHzrhQDA I only added 10 cards so you don't have to change too much, and tagged what I put in (assuming you started out with the precon). Put on a very light touch, so the deck hopefully still feels like the precon with slight upgrades. As of now, I primarily tried to make it flow better. Generally speaking, you could cut some of the squad- creatures for more synergistic pieces and payoffs- but unfortunately, there isn't too much other stuff which both fits the 40K-theme and brings you forward.
primal canyon
Here you go: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fQWzKklkHUKMBuDHzrhQDA I only added ...
Thank you so much
still dew
Hey guys, could you guys please give some advice to what I need to cut in this deck. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/pxNTRrKdIEWUv_p_LoGneA
rotund forge
Hey guys, could you guys please give some advice to what I need to cut in this d...
What are you looking to do with it?
Because you're at 100 cards
still dew
I was thinking of any cards I could cut and then add other cards to make the deck more consistent
rotund forge
What sort of play are you looking to go to? How do you feel about combos, etc.
I've never had much luck with [[deadbridge chant]]
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[Mesmeric Orb]]
hollow latchBOT
still dew
What sort of play are you looking to go to? How do you feel about combos, etc.
I was looking to go for a going wide strat, where I can mill alot of cards and gain value from that
*mill
And then either sac then for value or pump the tokens up to win the game
I was just seeing if there are any other cards I could consider in adding to the deck
round mist
I was just seeing if there are any other cards I could consider in adding to the...
Well, you could consider using the GY more proactively with cards like [[genesis]] or [[phyrexian reclamation]]
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Incarnation
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Genesis is in your graveyard, you may pay . If you do, return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Not dryad, centaur, or avatar but life itself.
4/4
Enchantment
, Pay 2 life: Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Death is no excuse to stop working.
round mist
also, I could see [[death tyrant]] coming in really clutch, or [[scourge of nel toth]]. Also, [[meren of clan nel toth]]
hollow latchBOT
Creature — Beholder Skeleton
Menace
Negative Energy Cone — Whenever an attacking creature you control or a blocking creature an opponent controls dies, create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.
: Return Death Tyrant from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
4/6
Creature — Zombie Dragon
Flying
You may cast Scourge of Nel Toth from your graveyard by paying and sacrificing two creatures rather than paying its mana cost.
"May all the cairns of Jund be toppled." —Meren of Clan Nel Toth
6/6
round mist
oh, and [[tortured existence]]
hollow latchBOT
Enchantment
, Discard a creature card: Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
"There are terrors lurking in the unseen corners of us all." —Crovax
young patrol
Is it possible to make Second Sunrise do work without also making it go infinite?
hollow latchBOT
young patrol
I want it to be a big powerful play in my Sun deck and I'm not sure how much support that would require. I think the best I am coming up with is being able to recur a bunch of clones of Ao after chaining through them to find more clones.
hollow latchBOT
round mist
@young patrol I mean, you could always do things like [[scapeshift]] or [[plumb the forbidden]] or [[arcbound ravager]], and pay that off with etb-or death-effects
stable bison
Putting this together. Took some inspiration from Sheldons Pheldegrif deck but I wanted to turn it into more of a big creature deck. Does it look flashy enough? I'm liking where it is but I'm open to suggestions.
*decided to forgo the usual ramp sorceries for creature ramp.
rotund forge
I'm sadly bad at judging flashy decks
zinc minnow
best 5 colour group hate commander?
queen ivy
[[child of alara]]
hollow latchBOT
round mist
Putting this together. Took some inspiration from Sheldons Pheldegrif deck but I...
How fast is it? Because a 5- mana creature isn't super flashy on turn 6, but on turn 3, it's a different story. Thinking [[kydele]] and [[will, scion of peace]] etc.
hollow latchBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
: Add for each card you've drawn this turn.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
She bears the greatest burden of all: that of knowing.
2/3
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Vigilance
: Spells you cast this turn that are white and/or blue cost less to cast, where X is the amount of life you gained this turn. Activate only as a sorcery.
"It's easy to cry 'For glory!' and charge those who disagree with you. But it takes finesse to turn enemies into allies rather than corpses."
2/4
stable bison
How fast is it? Because a 5- mana creature isn't super flashy on turn 6, but on ...
I meant more or less the bombs in the 99. The commander is very much there cause it's jankier (or at least from what I'm used to). Overall the deck is not too fast but there are ways built in to "cheat out" the higher casting creatures.
round mist
more bombs are always good 😄
sacred flame
it would be really cool if someone could look at the sideboard of cards I own to upgrade my basically precon ezuri claw of madness.
round mist
it would be really cool if someone could look at the sideboard of cards I own to...
I would add cancel, negate, essence scatter, coiling oracle and relic crush for sure, and all 2- mana mana dorks probably. Possible cuts (for me, again) would include any creature with power 3 or greater as well as the equipment (excpt boots) and some of the more expensive sorceries
eager axle
At the very least, cut creatures with power 3 or greater that don't do other things. e.g. Caller of the Pack, Arbor Colossus, Chameleon Colossus, Archers of Qarsi. Ezuri would rather see a vanilla 1/1 in hand than any of those. You can at least make arguments for things like Bane of Progress and Prime Speaker, but not those.
sacred flame
Thanks for the pointers, updated the list ^^
now I only have to hope people will let my Ezuri live
graceful knot
Please don't add Cancel
Add Cancel With Set Mechanic
There are 100 options and they're just as cheap and always better (and more interesting)
graceful knot
The OTJ cancel is incredible
Can confirm, it's SO good
opal roost
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/XQlPFU_kpkmYJvXPPoA1tQ
Anything cool I could be running in Calamity that I’m not already?
round mist
Please don't add Cancel
there was a limited pool to choose from, otherwise, I would totally agree
sacred flame
Please don't add Cancel
Feel free to suggest something from the sideboard to swap it our with. ^^
eager axle
I'm not really sure any in your sideboard are any better, but keep an eye out for anything that's Cancel + a bonus effect.
sacred flame
Okay, I will!
royal pewter
hey guys im building a wubrg commander deck
was wondering about general guidelines and ratios
how much ramp, interaction, lands to run , etc
im building Ulalek
also do I need draw spells?
i have walking ballista as my main wincon with infinite mana/ heliod
i want the rest of the deck to be goodstuff/eldrazi stuff
budget is of no concern
graceful knot
hey guys im building a wubrg commander deck
was wondering about general guidelin...
This is referencing an unofficial leak, we can't talk about those here
royal pewter
aight just pretend im building an eldrazi morophon deck
graceful knot
But you can ask this question if you remove the specific references :p
royal pewter
But you *can* ask this question if you remove the specific references :p
done
my main issue with building wubrg is theres not enough deck space lmao
how do i decide which of each is enough
i have a feeling 30 artifacts is too much
but i need colorless mana so idk
if u can give me some generic ratios to start id appreciate it
eager axle
If your main wincon is Walking Ballista/Heliod, what are the 5 color Eldrazi for?
royal pewter
they are for card advantage
like sire of stagnation
and blink effects
and scion token ramp
idk how to build good wubrg decks tbh i usually build mono colors
my main issue is running out of card space lol
eager axle
It's a bit of an odd setup, because optimizing 5c Eldrazi and optimizing Walking Ballista/Heliod are two very different goals.
royal pewter
hmmm
i see
i thought i could just slap heliod / ballista in
since im making infinite mana with basalt anyways
and i run a lot of tutors
eager axle
But then the 5c and the Eldrazi serve no purpose except to bait and switch your deck's purpose. lol
quiet knot
and i run a lot of tutors
This doesn't make your deck less jank, it just means you're gonna have more consistent jank
royal pewter
idk i kinda wanna build the new eldrazi commander but not sure if i can actually win with eldrazi creatures
since im targeted by 3 players
kinda makes winning hard
should i just put stax and focus on swinging for dmg
i was thinking maybe slowing the game down with stax might make eldrazis work
eager axle
Running a bunch of tutors to get 2 card infinite combos will definitely get you targeted a lot more than Eldrazi.
royal pewter
funny enough the kind of players i play with are fine with tutors
but not eldrazi
makes no sense lol
how do u recommend i go about building this optimized deck then
i also included karn lock
with mycosynth
i think my main issue is focusing on the deck theme
its all over the place lmao
@eager axleare there some general guidelines for good ratios i can start with? for cardtypes
eager axle
The main thing I would think is pick one direction and focus on it more. If you want to do Eldrazi, focus on how you turbo ramp up to high mana and start slamming terrifying Eldrazi. If you want to jam efficient combos and win with those, every single Eldrazi card is a waste of a slot.
royal pewter
so pretty much its better to build it as stax/goodstuff than combo
makes sense
i do like big eldrazis lol
royal pewter
The main thing I would think is pick one direction and focus on it more. If you ...
the main problem i have is i need to cast the eldrazis
so cheating them out with planar is not viable
only thing i can rlly cheat is emrakul world anew
with madness
i should probably load up on interaction too
i noticed ppl like destroying my basalt monolith
which is a problem
what's ur opinion on including the cedh staples like notion thief, opp agent, drannith....etc
eager axle
You don't have to cheat them out necessarily. Run all the lands that create 
, run even some of the bigger mana rocks like Thran Dynamo, you have green for the best ramp spells, etc. I would look at some of the existing colorless Eldrazi decks for reference of what's available. Of course your removal can also be one sided with things like All is Dust, Ugin, etc.
royal pewter
i did look at colorless decks for reference
the problem is that leaves no space for color interaction pieces
notably counterspells
and staple removals
thats why i was asking for a generic ratio
i can start with
or is that not how deckbuilding works for wubrg
not to mention blue/red draw spells
which i feel are needed
also is it risky to focus all my ramp in artifacts?
hard to search for colorless lands with green ramp spells
eager axle
I think you might be thinking a little bit too much about the WUBRG part when Eldrazi is a very abnormal WUBRG (and card type in general with the focus on high mana costs).
royal pewter
I think you might be thinking a little bit too much about the WUBRG part when El...
i just want to ensure my deck is resilient (i die to boardwipes especially artifact hate)
eager axle
I think you kind of best of both in that case. Use the optimized landbase for your colors, but still thrown in all your 2 mana colorless lands.
royal pewter
all?
i only know about ancient tomb
or u mean the urza mine /tower/
forgot the last one lol
i feel like urza lands are bait
also is 35 lands good enough?
i think i need to start thinking about slot eff right
only include cards that do a lot of things at once?
man this is hard
eager axle
Urza's might be a bait in 5c. lol But there's [[Eldrazi Temple]], [[Shrine of the Forsaken Gods]], [[Eye of Ugin]], Temple of the False God, and other lands like [[Sanctum of Ugin]] too.
hollow latchBOT
Land
: Add .
: Add . Spend this mana only to cast colorless Eldrazi spells or activate abilities of colorless Eldrazi.
Each temple is a door to a horrible future.
Land
: Add .
: Add . Spend this mana only to cast colorless spells. Activate only if you control seven or more lands.
The gods known to the merfolk as Ula, Emeria, and Cosi were nothing more than false memories of a monstrous trinity: the Eldrazi titans Ulamog, Emrakul, and Kozilek.
Legendary Land
Colorless Eldrazi spells you cast cost less to cast.
, : Search your library for a colorless creature card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
An eye closes. A race awakens.
Land
: Add .
Whenever you cast a colorless spell with mana value 7 or greater, you may sacrifice Sanctum of Ugin. If you do, search your library for a colorless creature card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
royal pewter
oooh
good picks thx
how do u feel about adding dramatic reversal isochron
makes infinite mana with basalt/grim
also is one ring an auto include or actually bad
feel like it will burn me if i get too greedy with it
eager axle
I'm pretty combo-adverse in general so I tend to avoid them almost always. :P I think generating infinite mana isn't bad in this instance, but if I were doing so in this case, I'm doing it so I can cast the biggest meanest Eldrazi.
royal pewter
also i "technically" dont need to play only eldrazi creatures if i run maskwood nexus
royal pewter
I'm pretty combo-adverse in general so I tend to avoid them almost always. :P I ...
i thought u needed combos for a deck to be optimized?
at least the easy 2 piece combos
eager axle
Combo decks are the best most powerful way to win. But most EDH games don't require the best most powerful options.
royal pewter
I'm pretty combo-adverse in general so I tend to avoid them almost always. :P I ...
yeah i usually try to be able to cast ulamog
turn 5
from hand
theres also fist of suns/timeless lotus
which makes the cast free
royal pewter
Combo decks are the best most powerful way to win. But most EDH games don't requ...
i dont play casual matches
only optimized
or is it impossible for eldrazis to be actually optimized?
i was thinking it could work if i focus on stax
like rule of law/flash
or is playing a subtheme too greedy in eldrazis
eager axle
I think if you're playing in a high power environment where combo is king, Eldrazi are too slow and mostly don't contribute towards comboing nor stopping them.
(But perhaps people who play high power more than I do would have a different opinion)
royal pewter
maybe i can try looking at a cedh stax deck for inspiration and use that as a shell?
those usually slow the game down enough for big creatures to be viable
royal pewter
I think if you're playing in a high power environment where combo is king, Eldra...
indeed thats why i was trying to abuse wubrg interaction
eager axle
If you just want to play [Redacted Leak] and not full Eldrazi typal, you can probably pull off 5 color goodstuff with a few cheap Eldrazi and use its ability to make combos happen, but that's a bit out of my wheelhouse.
royal pewter
hmmm that may be the way to go
just play it like a weird jodah deck
do u know any notable goodstuff creatures that might help that strategy
eager axle
If the leak is true, I think we'll see a lot of people brew it.
royal pewter
i think ill run the protection/stax ones
royal pewter
If the leak is true, I think we'll see a lot of people brew it.
true but im trying to get ahead of the curve by testing it online
eager axle
(I actually really don't like good stuff so I'm the wrong guy to ask. haha)
royal pewter
lol
do u have any lists that i might use as a base for my deck?
im not a stax/wubrg player
any idea would help at this point lol
eager axle
Alas, I also am not much of a stax/wubrg player. :P
graceful knot
Some definite inclusions would be [[torpor orb]] type effects, since eldrazi tend to have on cast rather than enter the battlefield triggers, so you can shut down a LOT of powerful creatures that rely on etb value.
hollow latchBOT
eager axle
Casual-Mid power theme decks. Hence I could've been moderately useful for Eldrazi typal, but am useless for high power wubrg. lol
Fwiw, I have mill, lifegain, tokens, -1/-1 counters/poison Phyrexian, and my latest builds are Myrkul (closest thing to a combo deck I have) and Magar.
royal pewter
Some definite inclusions would be [[torpor orb]] type effects, since eldrazi ten...
oooh good idea
would this be a good start? https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/wubrg-aggro-stax-myrs-revenge/
i just want to include the stax pieces only
graceful knot
There are approximately 6 or so versions of the effect, pick your favourite two or so
royal pewter
and use that as a shell
or should i look at cedh stax lists for inspiration?
@graceful knoti didnt know torpor orb doesnt stop eldrazi effects
thx for pointing that out
graceful knot
It'll stop some, but almost none of the important ones
royal pewter
do u have any idea on general ratios i should stick with when building the deck
like how much interaction to run
how much ramp
etc
graceful knot
I wouldnt look at the urtet list too hard, it is still an urtet list and so very focused in on his ability to untap for mana (something eldrazi don't really have the luxury of) to break stax parity. Your version of doing that is going to be torpor orb or things like [[trinisphere]] and [[damping sphere]]
hollow latchBOT
Artifact
As long as Trinisphere is untapped, each spell that would cost less than three mana to cast costs three mana to cast. (Additional mana in the cost may be paid with any color of mana or colorless mana. For example, a spell that would cost to cast costs to cast instead.)
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
A Thran relic, it has spent ten thousand years doing absolutely nothing.
graceful knot
do u have any idea on general ratios i should stick with when building the deck
Honestly? No. Ratios go kinda out the window when you start doing stax because it isn't your usual deck focus, and stax pieces kind of are interaction, and are especially meta dependent too
eager axle
Does Eldrazi really want Damping when they want to run 2 mana lands?
royal pewter
@graceful knot I see
How do you feel about abusing rule of law
My deck can include flash enablers to compensate
graceful knot
Does Eldrazi really want Damping when they want to run 2 mana lands?
They can survive paying more colourless (and generating it) better than other decks, its a deckbuilding choice you can make but don't have to
eager axle
Fair. I guess at worst for you it just turns 1 or 2 CC lands into C.
graceful knot
How do you feel about abusing rule of law
Rule of law is really really good, don't bother trying to do flash things unless its a wide ranging choice (it's just running bad cards to make a good card slightly better)
royal pewter
Rule of law is really really good, don't bother trying to do flash things unless...
Well I can't spoiler the ability but I really need my spells to be flash
It has synergy with the rest of the deck
Especially since it combo's with seed borne muse
Plus it's like 3 card slots wasted
Is that bad?
graceful knot
It feels like you have a decklist already. Have you posted that anywhere? Otherwise we're making suggestions into the aether here.
graceful knot
Yes, many
royal pewter
Good or not worth
graceful knot
Linvala is good, but Drana and Linvala exists
And is literally the same but better
graceful knot
Stax pieces need to be somewhat meta tailored or you're going to end up with dead cards. What are the usual sort of decks you play against? Like, how do they win, what do their engines look like?
royal pewter
Hmmm it's all over the place since I test for online first
But mostly combo players going infinite
Rarely see jace or thoracle
Just some weird combo's in optimized
So a wide variety
graceful knot
U seem to know a lot about Stax
Not quite stax but hatebears was my second ever deck, so it was sorta my opening into playing commander properly.
royal pewter
Ah I see
I'm a mono colored sheoldred spammer
As u can tell it rarely has Stax
Got a hate bear list I can look at to see the good stuff in it ?
I think it can work if I pick the most slot efficient Stax pieces to slow the game down
Also should I do a variety of card types for the effects I need to use ? I feel like focusing all my Stax on artifacts and enchantments makes me rlly weak to boardwipes and artifact hate
graceful knot
Since you're in a fairly wide open high powered meta, the most slot efficient ones are going to be those that hit the most decks/cards. This means things like torpor, anything that affects mana generation is strong but you need to have a way to break parity or already be ahead or you're just gonna make everyone miserable AND lose, rule of law effects, and probably something like [[lavinia azorius renegade]] to kill cascade/free spells
hollow latchBOT
royal pewter
Oh damn I misread
That's rlly op
What's ur opinion on the Karn lock
Worth trying?
graceful knot
It's one sided.
Killing off things like fast mana into Big Spell, as well as shutting down free counterspells is good, but bear in mind it's a double edged sword. Somebody playing a combo that doesn't care about it suddenly can't be stopped by free interaction, and most players are greedy enough to just not leave that mana open rather than play cautious
graceful knot
What's ur opinion on the Karn lock
It's fine. It's also expensive to pull off and only one of the cards does anything for the rest of your deck (karn is a good stax piece by himself)
royal pewter
Nice what other Stax pieces could you think of
the cost isnt a big issue since i have infinite colorless mana combos in the deck alr
is ashiok dream render good?
or is opp agent enough
graceful knot
I think you should watch some stax decks play online first, you've got a general idea of the sort of things you want the deck to do but I don't want to build the deck for you, nor do I think you'll have any success if you don't learn how those decks tend to want to function.
I like ashiok personally because it's also gy hate, but it's not really massively relevant at highest power levels due to being sorcery speed on both cast and gy hate functionality.
royal pewter
damn
graceful knot
I play beneath the level it becomes sorta bad, so I like it
But I wouldn't recommend it here I don't think
royal pewter
what are some good stax lists i can try to get used to the playstyle?
most lists i find on moxfield suck
i play optimized usually
btw how do u feel like about armageddon+teferi's protection
its one of my favourite combos to run
good counter to landfall players
graceful knot
I'd check the cedh database for stax decks. They're mostly bad in the current cedh meta and the changes for optimised are going to be mostly land bases, extreme ends of fast mana, and more compact efficient wincons.
Winota, most monocolour lists, tayam and tevesh svat//(most options) others all have stax lists.
royal pewter
oooh ok thats the closest to what im looking for then
graceful knot
Some have combos, depends
royal pewter
how many removal spells do u recommend
is 10 overkill or needed
assuming i play all the best most expensive ones
graceful knot
As I said, I don't do ratios usually for hatebear/stax lists. "However much you feel is enough" is probably right though
You play in that meta more than me
Let your experience guide you
royal pewter
i see
makes sense
will do thx
i do assume cantrips/draw spells are needed right?
i thought about relying on wheels as my draw spells
but it seems risky to give my opponents new hands
narsett/notion thief combo not always reliable
tho wheels are nice to recycle resources back into my deck with shufflers (most eldrazis are)
graceful knot
You always need draw :p but it's form is up to you, whatever works with the core pieces of the deck (wheels good for gy stuff, cantrips good fit for storm etc)
royal pewter
i still dont know if i like or hate the one ring
the burn gets brutal lategame
maybe ill do brainstorm like effects for now
do u know of any cards that have the same effect of seedborne muse?
unwinding clock only works for artifacts
opal roost
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/XQlPFU_kpkmYJvXPPoA1tQ
any suggestions for this list?
rotund forge
do u know of any cards that have the same effect of seedborne muse?
Nothing is as widely applicable as seedborn. [[White Plume Adventurer]] is one of the better ones
hollow latchBOT
rotund forge
[[quest for renewal]] [[drumbellower]]
royal pewter
can someone give me their opinion of this list
took me a while to make it
commander not included in the card count
graceful knot
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/AGS6Ez5hH0OlXDgS-twXfw
How do we think this looks? I tested an earlier version with more mill and those cards felt dead. This is where I've landed for a casual Smeagol with a GY-Lands subtheme.
Not running the dunedain combo because it is bad lol
It played a solid game as the first draft (I punted it by not full swinging vs the 2 remaining players, it felt capable)
round mist
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/AGS6Ez5hH0OlXDgS-twXfw
How do we think this look...
it definitely looks solid for casual, if a bit heavy in the 5-drop slot and a bit light on the instant-speed interaction. One thing to look out for is how you win. I could see you adding more recursion or more finishers eventually, but can't definitively speak to that without having tested the deck. On that note, how deep were you in said game before you were attempting to win by swinging?
graceful knot
Sod knows, I did not keep track but it was a long one
It did feel heavy on 5 drops, but when testing I've rarely had any issues getting to those land counts since I'm on 40, plus whatever smeagol steals
I don't feel huge on moldervine but I'm not yet sure what I'd swap in
round mist
well, I didn't see [[eternal witness]] or [[meren]] or [[the mycotyrant]] or [[world shaper]] or [[horn of greed]], so either of those?
round mist
@graceful knot
graceful knot
World Shaper is in my pile somewhere, and I do not have a mycotyrant though it is both cheap and a nice beater that makes bodies
dire remnant
