7+X-Bag in TL

[peak jasper]

sorry first 10 pieces

[rotund cairn]

ive seen people do pco and stuff

[sharp condor]

no

[peak jasper]

yeah

me

[chilly robin]

theres' 2 possible ways to arrange the overlap between the pieces

[sharp condor]

try yourself

[chilly robin]

so you do divide by 2

[rotund cairn]

alright

[sharp condor]

hmm

[boreal drift]

We have now hit 3k

[long palm]

this is what i mean

[sharp condor]

perhaps i am mistaken

[spare sun]

are there any pc setups for this new bag

[rotund cairn]

idk havent done perms and combinations for while lol

[spare sun]

with good chances

[long palm]

well

[rotund cairn]

gl

[long palm]

2l rng

[sharp condor]

oh yea

you are right

[spare sun]

true

[peak jasper]

PCO and pco shapes work kinda

[peak jasper]

this

[long palm]

have fun labbing 16,480,800 routes

[rotund cairn]

yah just build boxes and pray

[sharp condor]

probably significantly less than 50%

[chilly robin]

^

[sharp condor]

pco itself is probably not buildable most of the time

[rare sequoia]

pc gang is researching a bit rn

[sharp condor]

like not even close

[peak jasper]

i would agree with that

i tried pco a couple of times and yeah some worked some didnt

but there are other solves now with this new bag

i feel that might be possible

[long palm]

its gonna be a lot of computer power

[sharp condor]

it's not that bad

[peak jasper]

one that worked.
and another that also worked with a small warped build of pco. idk what u call this

[long palm]

thats pco solve pattern stuff

[spare sun]

i feel like pco has better chance now

i mean not feel

i mean it does feel like it

im tripping

[long palm]

placebo

[peak jasper]

not more chances but different ones for sure

[sharp condor]

more likw low sample size

[peak jasper]

i feel like pco pattern + box shape might work

[long palm]

out of a couple million

[peak jasper]

the uh TZS pattern

[sharp condor]

huh

so like

pco

[eternal merlin]

I mean building pco like that and not split up already gives you less chances

[sharp condor]

the chances are identical

[peak jasper]

shutup sam let me do my side pco in peace

;(

[eternal merlin]

[spare sun]

how

[peak jasper]

side pco has a less of a chance of solve

[heady schooner]

i think it is just better to randomize starting boardstate than having to have players have to mentally adjust to new bag system since 7bag gets internalized

i remember tetragen just placed a couple random monominos at the bottom of the board without holes and it worked pretty well

[eternal merlin]

There’s a few funny 180 rotations that only works with it split up

[sharp condor]

how?

[sharp condor]

i would think it's the other way since you get wall

can you show me an example

[eternal merlin]

Nope

[spare sun]

like what

[eternal merlin]

Yeah I’ll try to find one

[peak jasper]

like with normal 7bag

[sharp condor]

i know it's normal 7 bag

[spare sun]

wouldnt you have one on both

[sharp condor]

no

wait

idek anymore lol

[eternal merlin]

@tired flame

Solve only works with split

[sharp condor]

[spare sun]

huh

[sharp condor]

pretty sure it works in both cases

oh

[peak jasper]

it does

[eternal merlin]

You are welcome to try

[sharp condor]

you mean the 180 exclusive solve

[eternal merlin]

Yeah

[sharp condor]

well in this case it's a redundant solve

do you have a case where it's not redundant

[tired flame]

why are you ping me this here

[eternal merlin]

Oh wait what

[peak jasper]

this works with the other side though

[eternal merlin]

Mixed you and cookie up mb

[sharp condor]

😭

do u have a non-redundant case

[eternal merlin]

@lament elm

Crazy knows more about it than me

[peak jasper]

lets talk abt the 7+X bag instead of the pco chances

[eternal merlin]

They’re the one that told me and showed me it

[peak jasper]

[sharp condor]

i've never ever heard of this before

[spare sun]

how does it work

what does the x stand for

[winged tartan]

X is a variable

[spare sun]

what does variable mean

[winged tartan]

that variable is described in the patchnotes:

https://tetr.io/about/patchnotes/#chlog_6_4_4

it means it changes from bag to bag until it's just regular 7-bag again

[spare sun]

why it so big

[winged tartan]

i feel like i've tried to link you to this before and you just aren't paying attention

it's in the pins, etc

[spare sun]

ive never talked about 7+x bag to you

[winged tartan]

[lament elm]

wtf
not here pls

[hushed oxide]

will this be a weekly thing

[spare sun]

but big link helps

i click it easier

[eternal merlin]

I mean you pinged osk and then zap replied

[spare sun]

besides that

i tohught it was a bug

but i wasnt linked to anything

[lament elm]

Wrong piece order

put Z last then maybe

IILZ

IILT

now I go

[eternal merlin]

~~it’s your screenshot ~~

[lament elm]

wtf im skill issu

im better now

[hushed oxide]

oyes

[peak jasper]

this will very much affect LST a lot

I wonder how pc gang and lst cult are taking this

[hushed oxide]

do 6-3

[peak jasper]

(and well all the opener mainers)

[cyan forge]

pco-likes are quite dependable

thats also why u see them in a lot of rng 10pcs

[peak jasper]

hi wyvr

[cyan forge]

hi

[hushed oxide]

why ver

[cyan forge]

idk

[peak jasper]

striders wont be affected as much

[hushed oxide]

of course

[cyan forge]

just plonk against stride

[hushed oxide]

for some reason

[long palm]

making 4w jokes

[hushed oxide]

i dont feel much

honestly

even though im not stride mf

[cyan forge]

wtf

ur weird'

[peak jasper]

really does limit things u can use

[cyan forge]

my whole first 70~120 pieces are fucked up

[hushed oxide]

before 7+1 vs after 7+

x

has done maybe

-1 apm

😭

[peak jasper]

so with openers and lsting gone (or weaker if that works) we have
striding and plomking and 4wding as the new meta i think

[cyan forge]

like my speed is limited to 2.8 pps only when i have 7+x on

[hushed oxide]

how

[cyan forge]

and then much much later it goes back to normal

[rotund cairn]

that makes sense

[hushed oxide]

how are you

so fast

wtf

[rotund cairn]

since the bag returns back to normal

[peak jasper]

7+x affects the first bags a lot so that makes sense

[peak jasper]

mhm mhm

[hushed oxide]

my pps is

1.5

[cyan forge]

lol

[tired flame]

do you know what variables are in math like algebra?

[hushed oxide]

during the +x

[cyan forge]

variable means changing

[hushed oxide]

and then go back up to 1.6-1.75

after x

[cyan forge]

https://tenor.com/view/super-mario-bros-wonder-talking-flower-template-mario-wonder-meme-gif-7964213445666430726

just say what it is bro

[hushed oxide]

variables can vary

[spare sun]

i was kidding

cmon

[rotund cairn]

thats facts

[peak jasper]

able:
ok back to the topic

[hushed oxide]

able to vary

[cyan forge]

idk i won against this guy though

[rotund cairn]

👀

[hushed oxide]

all x rank

so pro

so

[rotund cairn]

i wonder what the avg app would be

[cyan forge]

laurent playstyle <2 app

so it must be doing something

[rotund cairn]

it probably would drop quite heavily since people get app carried by openers lol

[cyan forge]

even to just apm spammer

yea but laurent doesnt opener much

at least last time i queued

i think??

but maybe cause i was just under tr by like a few hundred

[peak jasper]

and LSting

[hushed oxide]

my app has taken a hit

[peak jasper]

mines hasnt i dont think so

[hushed oxide]

its only

.6 fr

[peak jasper]

freestyling is still a thing

[hushed oxide]

😭

.6 app after 7+x

[rotund cairn]

tetoranks x

o

wait

[hushed oxide]

bc no opener counterspike

1.2 app

so have been down to 0.65 --> .6

[rotund cairn]

oof

[tight harbor]

you can still lst

since midgame is the same

[peak jasper]

Yeah but waste t first few bags

Remmy will go ballistic

[tight harbor]

true

but like lst in opener phase isn't really that strong since ppl are ready to deal with high apm from opener anyway

midgame lst is one of my win conditions for a reason

[lament elm]

not now

[tight harbor]

[tight harbor]

true

[glad moss]

pain

7+X gave me a false sense of security

[vestal mantle]

The biggest issue with 7+x bag is that it makes downstacking mostly the only skillset which already was before, I'm not sure that this is a good idea because of the multiplied amount of rng there is already especially in garbage at high level. Trying to lower opener mains is a kinda nice idea, then you might rather do something such as PC sending only 6 lines (for example).
My conclusion is that this update can be nice for lower levels, where people aren't really opting for downstacking in general and just usually try the easiest way to send a lot of garbage and topout opponents who can't counter, while at high end where meta is more about who does infinite downstacking better, this is literally the worst idea by killing midgame t-spinning which you will be able to do on a more rng basis than it used be.

(lol things I just said are kinda unorganized but its oke)

[cyan forge]

everyones starting to get used to it LOL

[glad moss]

i can tell

i've been playing matches while listening to the discourse of this change via TTS

[winged tartan]

oh god i am so sorry for your hearing comprehension

[cyan forge]

LMFAO

id rather listen to 10 instances of tokyo.mp4

[glad moss]

even the part where people were legit trying to solve 7+X

[winged tartan]

yeah that math rant didn't seem very productive lol

[cyan forge]

SOLVING 7+X 😭

[glad moss]

IF THERE'S A WILL THERE'S A WAY AMIRITE

[winged tartan]

[vestal mantle]

⚰️

[tired flame]

if you can solve 7+x and make it work in TL then its deserved win tbh

[cyan forge]

https://tenor.com/view/super-mario-bros-wonder-talking-flower-template-mario-wonder-meme-gif-7964213445666430726

[winged tartan]

7+X=11

[cyan forge]

how about: do not attempt to opener

x = 21

[winged tartan]

you stupid

[vestal mantle]

7+X = 7+X

[cyan forge]

no i not

[tired flame]

according to a tweet by a senator 1+2 = 12

so 7+x = 7x

there solved

[hushed oxide]

genius

[glad moss]

in other words, that first win i got before that string of losses bumped me to my personal highest TR so far

[hushed oxide]

waow

[glad moss]

that was the false sense of security part

and then i very much got humbled

[cyan forge]

i just win in general now so im not the best indicator

[timid kindle]

Top 100 when

[cyan forge]

idk ill abuse 7+x to top 100

i need 24.9k first

[proven belfry]

7+x

[tough light]

played some games and I don't feel like it weirds out midgame

[proven belfry]

x = e

[sharp condor]

according to pcgang its like

[tough light]

but I wonder how it goes in even higher ranks

[proven belfry]

can x be 0?

[winged tartan]

yeah

[sharp condor]

1058400

[tired flame]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Tetris/comments/1ceuwgi/weird_bag/

[tough light]

lol

[hushed oxide]

[wet vine]

i agree with this, somehow the midgame doesn't feel the same as before, u can't build up momentum and b2b

[rare sequoia]

https://tinyurl.com/28ewxrad

made a 7+x opener

I piece can also be mixed in with the box shapes actually, should be pretty easy to freestyle

[severe spindle]

It feels very dead..

If u get what i mean

[wet vine]

yep

and it feels like idk what to do with midgame now lmao

[sharp condor]

agree

[lucid verge]

time to wait for 17 hours

[rare sequoia]

anybody have any thoughts? would like to hear

[lucid verge]

people already making openers for 7+x?

real

why does this looks familiar...

[rare sequoia]

i think there was a dubble that used that 1st bag maybe

[lucid verge]

hmm bongcloud hmmm

[lament elm]

GUYS, I propose 7+7 then 7 7 7 7

14 pieces to get out of opener

and okay the rng to get 2 normal bags for openers

but gets the midgame start earlier

[winged tartan]

🎰

[lament elm]

currently the 35 feels like a hard limit

[bright solar]

ok I ain't alone

[lament elm]

feels like a drag

[bright solar]

[lament elm]

move the limit down and maybe something good is cooking

[wet vine]

ik what to do now

but sitll feels weird

[bright solar]

[spare sun]

anybody else feel like 7+x helped with lookahead

cause i was used to 7 bag and this makes me have to actually look

[lament elm]

im the opposite

i mained pcs and openers so helped my lookahead, so i play weird queue finer

[hybrid depot]

ok you know what, 7+x isnt so bad LOL

[loud hazel]

7+x fucking sucks and annoying to play

worst change ever

[lyric heart]

#1234025885443686492 (1 message) was moved here.

[loud hazel]

time for the 4w era of tl woooohooo

it will be so fun

thanks osk

[glad moss]

oh i love tetris battle

[winged tartan]

i tried watching like 4 arbitrary replays and i didn't really see many people resorting to 4w lol

[loud hazel]

game feels so much more rng dependent now

smth like sdpc c spin and opener pcs are still possible with a little bit of freestyle

just way more rng dependent

do we seriously want people in tl relying on rng

[solar anvil]

guys what on earth is 7+x

ah i see

[lament elm]

that's because they havent figured it out

minimal contact to community

gives it a few more hours

4w will become like the TKI

[grand topaz]

omg is it only today?? how long is the change up for, i need to get in on this but will only be able to play later

[hybrid depot]

i mean i used it a few times. it's not a problem YET, but i fear that people will start using it more like me

i kinda wanna avoid 4w cuz i dont know if its disrespectful... but also i can just say its for science

[lament elm]

"then "today" ends <t:1714341600:R>"

by zaptor in ping

[solar anvil]

honour is long gone in TL

[hybrid depot]

welp guess im maining 4w tomorrow if i play tl

[dusk forge]

its stupid

[lament elm]

then vote

[loud hazel]

ive already seen 3 widers

wtf

[wintry fable]

c4w main : 7+X? so what? 🤣

[hybrid depot]

i WILL say that 7+x felt better today. maybe because it was a real tl game or something i have no idea.

but i will still stand by my argument that 6-3 every round is not the most exciting

[loud hazel]

true

[dusk forge]

if opener game is that op i will be in 24.9 rn with my 4.5 pps dpc
if opener game is that op i will not spend 6 month in u rank before getting to x rank
this is my opinion

[loud hazel]

openers are easy to counter

[wintry fable]

plonkers :

[dusk forge]

i even lose to some u rank even tho i use dpc

[lament elm]

for higher ranks

[loud hazel]

git gud

[lament elm]

Opener is dreadful for lower ranks

[loud hazel]

i used to bitch about openers too

[lament elm]

wtf i gud

[loud hazel]

when i was on low ranks

[loud hazel]

no im not talking about you in particular

[lament elm]

but avg players dont wanna learn counter against opener

asides from opener

so gg no getting good

[loud hazel]

its not an opener problem its a person problem

[dusk forge]

implemented it just for lower rank, dont make me quit this game after 4 years of playing

[loud hazel]

if theyre not willing to learn how to counter them

then its not the opener's fault

[dusk forge]

i my self even as the opener main know how to counter opener, even tho its a 5050 chance

[severe spindle]

honestly one of the better ways to balance tl is by giving better match ups for example dont pair a 24.5k with a 24.9k

[dusk forge]

funny enough now im seeing a s rank play and they still die from 2 wide

[loud hazel]

not enough people

also

i think there will be a good chunk of people that will quit for something like jstris if this gets implemented permanently

(including myself and many people i know)

[dusk forge]

Count me in, no longer intrested in league if they implemented it there

And might as well you implemented it to custom rolm,blitz and 40l if that happend

[wintry fable]

though i'm opener main,

i think 7+x-bag is necessary in S+ or below

but not SS or over?

just my opinion

yeap

[lament vortex]

agree

[lament elm]

it doesnt have to be 7+X for the lower ranks

[hardy beacon]

AS A misdrop player i think its fair to put ctrl z in tl

[lament elm]

wtf

the truest cooker

[severe spindle]

Agreed

[loud hazel]

true

[severe spindle]

In the higher ranks i feel like without opener the game doesnt feel right anymore

[loud hazel]

imagine diao without tki + lst

[severe spindle]

Lmao

Diao will find a way 2 5pps freestyle tspin

[loud hazel]

true

wait hold on

[lament elm]

diao very well rounded

[loud hazel]

7+X is a wumbo buff

[lament elm]

he would have no problems

[loud hazel]

yeah im just joking

[severe spindle]

Lmao

[lament elm]

can wumbo 4pps 4w

[wet vine]

will still have a bit of problems for top players but they can adopt fast

[lament elm]

i think there's faster folks

[wanton mulch]

People who disagree 7+X is because they dislike the change itself, not because of the lack of opener phase

[wet vine]

nah lmao, but like it would be nice if it's another mode of tl instead of changing the bag permanently (rn temporarily)

[wanton mulch]

I imagine people would start making openers for 7+x bags soon
The strength would be weaker than the 7bag system, but if we had enough time eventually someone would start going 6pps pc loop blitzing anyway

Just a speculation, based on nothing

[grand topaz]

Me waking up every morning hoping 7+X change is permanent

[loud hazel]

me waking up every morning hoping every 7+X enjoyer shuts the fuck up

okay that might be a little bit too much

[mortal scroll]

whenever i wake up to 7+x in tl i always get a splitting headache that incapacitates me for the rest of the day osk pls fix...

[grand topaz]

I do wonder hmm

[boreal drift]

7+x just makes it more impractical for people to just spam openers whenever

[grim ether]

7+x should be an annual thing at least

[hardy beacon]

JUST REMOVE THE T PIECE - all problems solved

[grim ether]

True

[loud hazel]

no t spin openers if no t piece

[rotund cairn]

facts

tl turns into sprint

[hardy beacon]

the t piece is the ultimate piece actually lets remove the brick

like forget it

[winged tartan]

gonezo

[grim ether]

Only and

[vast matrix]

i think my main problem with 7+x is that with it being ft5 but no threat of dying to opener, games feel way longer which is less fun for me specifically

idk if anyone shares that feeling

i also wouldnt like if 3 out of 3 of the main tetris games would have their own annoyance (7+x feeling weird for tetrio, no players + lag for ppt2, zone + clean garbage making the games actually last forever for tec)

[vast matrix]

this is the only one with both a good playerbase and fun gameplay, so this would make it worse, but again i'm just one player

just wanted to give my feedback on this

[wanton mulch]

feeling the same, but at the other side there could be people who enjoy openering and win

[sage plume]

I feel like the 7+x system also messes with stacking a good amount

I do have a couple of observations that may or may not be 100% accurate. At least from first impressions, With the extra x pieces, it seems to make:

• LST harder to use due to needing to deal with x extra pieces to put in the stack, increasing the rate of overstacking and being much less sustainable.
• Counting to 4 is harder due to needing to place extra pieces to avoid covering garbage hole, leading to overstacking that makes B2B downstacking more unviable.
• Downstacking and powerstacking isn't really affected as much, although can't fully confirm that.

So if the observations are correct then we are gonna see more powerstacking and cheese as stuff like B2B gets nerfed.

I think it would need more investigation tbh. Curious about other people's insight.

[lament elm]

for now in TL, after 7+3 7+2 7+1 bag goes back to normal (7 7 7 7...) so midgame is unaffected

[winged tartan]

yeaaah

i mean having an extra shuffled in somewhere arbitrary does mess with parity

[lament elm]

hmm, any thoughts on having the order of 7+X separate...

[hardy beacon]

the open bag echoes thru the whole game tbh

[lament elm]

sth like mini bag in-between

[winged tartan]

you mean like 7+2 then 7+3 or like the extra pieces are always at the end?

[lament elm]

at the end maybe a bit too passive

[winged tartan]

well the latter has a feature request #1233972737576276040

[lament elm]

put it in the front

[swift pilot]

pc is the best opener now. you hit them with a ton of garbage while they are dealing with an unfamiliar bag. plus the potential to go longer between each I piece makes it harder to deal with tons of clean garbage early on.

[atomic gorge]

after playing around with it a bit i definitely think it’s a welcome change

early game is actually quite interesting with the freestyle setups

i still despise extra T tho we need to nuke that from orbit

[lament elm]

imma become old cz with the waste T

[grand topaz]

mid-game setups decrease that gap. Fractal quad best, but STSD/c-spin also help a lot

[mortal scroll]

most tetrio players cannot not set up those reliably

[vast matrix]

i'd say most players in general not just tetrio xd

mid game setups are usually both harder to learn and harder to see because you're not seeing those at the start of the game everytime 100% of the time

[severe spindle]

ok what if

a specific day every month is set so that its 7+x

and the rest is 7bag

alternate

[wet vine]

or just nerf b2b

and pc

[atomic gorge]

i think the fundamental issue that the game is going to run into regardless of what changes you make to bag is that speed is overweighted and op

b2b is not actually that broken but when you blitz it out fast it’s op

[severe spindle]

yea

[atomic gorge]

pcs are not broken either but with speed they are an issue

[wet vine]

opener?

[severe spindle]

this doesnt really solve the problem tho

i can still opener

and ive gotten pc spammed into oblivion in tl

[wet vine]

yep, 7+x just somehow buff 4w and pc..

[severe spindle]

yea...

and +

[atomic gorge]

honestly 4w is just not that threatening in this game

even at low level most players aren’t good enough at it to be a real threat

[severe spindle]

i feel like this change would cause like 1/3 of the community to just quit

[atomic gorge]

and b2b cancels it easily

[wet vine]

still temp, but if permanent, maybe

[severe spindle]

ive seen b- 2w

[atomic gorge]

keep in mind 1/3 of players are below like A-

[atomic gorge]

2w yea ive seen that

i dont think 7+x is some kind of panacea that will fix every problem in this game

i think it helps to alleviate one particular issue

[wet vine]

yeah but without something to counter.. u just get tons of cheese, im bad at countering 4w without my opener lol

[wet vine]

looping?

[severe spindle]

but also at the same time there is no real counter to something like 6-3 stride

[atomic gorge]

lol that’s fair

[cinder vapor]

Alright. I've got some porridge so I can sit down and type. I've yet to open TETR.IO so keep in mind everything I'm saying rn is just theory.

What are the immediate changes?
So, The obvious change that 7+X will bring is that your typical opener mains are going to be dead (for now, potentially.) 4-wide will become buffed due to it's non-reliance on bag order alongside it's checks (certain opening types) being unviable. Common stacking styles (such as 6-3) will likely rise in popularity as it's a simple setup to perform and is something people can immediately adjust to. More technical stacking styles that can be flexible with piece usage and bag order (such as LST) may also see a rise in usage. PC mains will likely see some success albeit some more labbing may need to be performed to bring it's reliability back.

What changes could be expected with future research?
Things I would predict is that either new or adapted openers would be created to deal with the randomness of the extra bag pieces. Like mentioned above PC spamming would likely become more common once it comes back to full strength. Adjustments to other stacking styles may also appear though I can't imagine them gaining any huge benefit from this. 4w will obv still be strong until an adjusted opener can re-check it's pressure.

Is one day enough to properly analyse this change?
In my opinion, not a chance. All one day will do is analyse people's kneejerk reactions to drastic changes. People who already understand the initial changes will thrive and people who relied on openers will just not play TL for the day. Considering there is no punishment for not playing TL for a day (thank god) it seems like the obvious choice for them. A change this large to core mechanics would likely take months to properly analyse shifts in the meta and player's strategies.

I'll likely hop into TL and give things a try alongside noting down my findings later on. It sounds like an interesting change though we'll need more time to see what kind of effect it may have on the game as a whole.

[atomic gorge]

extreme dependence of lower-level players on memorized openers rather than organically learning to play the game

[atomic gorge]

i will say i think you highly underestimate how difficult it is to reliably loop pc on this

[wet vine]

hmm yeah fair but for those who are used to 7bag, it kinda messes up with the mind, even after 4 bags, where it became normal 7bag, i still find it diff to get back to "normal" midgame

[atomic gorge]

it’s definitely possible if you get a little lucky but if ive learned anything from my college statistics classes the number of possible bag permutations is going to be a LOT worse

[cinder vapor]

That's why I'm saying some adjustments would need to be made on "spare [pieces] bags"

[severe spindle]

i went and played rounds of 7 after 7+x

its pretty hard to adjust

[atomic gorge]

adjustments can’t be reliably done though for PCs since you need 10 pieces max to pc

[wet vine]

oh fuck i should get back to normal 7 bag lol

[severe spindle]

and also wont the opener community just find new openers..

[vast matrix]

yeah some games i can get to b2bing and some other games it feels like i cant ever fix my stack lmao

[severe spindle]

it doesnt really fix the underlying issue

[atomic gorge]

can you imagine how hard this is

like actually think about it how do you opener on this

[severe spindle]

variations

i can still dt pretty consistently

[atomic gorge]

you have literally 10000x+ more variations

[wet vine]

it'll take awhile or something, some openers can work but very luck based

[atomic gorge]

dt is doable because it’s a midgame setup lol

[severe spindle]

tru

[atomic gorge]

if you’re good enough to freestyle it obviously you can build anything

[severe spindle]

pcs r buffed tho

[atomic gorge]

i really don’t know if pcs are buffed man

it’s not easy to build more than one

[wet vine]

i find this one funny

[cinder vapor]

I wouldn't say they are buffed right now. Though they are less nerfed than most openers

[wet vine]

rtx is built diff

[severe spindle]

rtx has rtx vision

[atomic gorge]

this i can agree with

yea rtxile is actually good at pcinh

[wet vine]

4090, he's upgrading to 5090 soon

[atomic gorge]

if a top 100 player can still build pcs idrc tbh

[rare sequoia]

but the ones who would care enough to quit wouldn't be the people new to the game and who the change directly benefits, it'd be those who invested the most time into the previous one

[atomic gorge]

i can pc on this too but i’m not representative of the playerbase

[atomic gorge]

yea thats true, definitely agree with the idea that people should weigh their opinions

[severe spindle]

this also doesnt nerf stuff like 9-0 or 6-3

[wet vine]

all i know is that im fucked... back to inf ds playstyle...

[severe spindle]

same

[wet vine]

yep, tried 9-0 sprint and it's quite good

[severe spindle]

my stats r slightly worse then my ss stats rn..

[severe spindle]

it is

[rare sequoia]

lst is decent as well

[severe spindle]

yea

[wet vine]

i can't lst for the love of tetrio

[atomic gorge]

lst is decent if you’re good at it

[severe spindle]

but if u get 2 ts or 3 ts in a row ur screwed

[atomic gorge]

but i do not see a problem with rewarding fundamentally good upstack

[rare sequoia]

I made an opener that can consistently lst in 7+x I think

[severe spindle]

o

[atomic gorge]

especially since it’s genuinely very hard for most players to pull off

[rare sequoia]

and can also 6-3

I posted it already

[wet vine]

wer

[rare sequoia]

lemme find

[atomic gorge]

6-3 is definitely the strongest way to open from what i’ve seen

rarely kills though so i don’t think it’s really an issue

[rare sequoia]

https://tinyurl.com/28ewxrad

here u go

[severe spindle]

tki also doesnt work 2 well anymore either

[wet vine]

i can't even 6-3 properly in sprint

[rare sequoia]

needs a bit of thinking but if you want lst it works

[severe spindle]

yea

if this becomes permanent it may be a heavy blow to the community

[wet vine]

ngl a 2nd tl mode would be fun but idk if they will or even thought of it

[atomic gorge]

idrk how you’d gauge this but i suppose i’m curious why this would be

[rare sequoia]

2nd TL mode has problems

[atomic gorge]

i can’t think of many players who love openers so much they would quit over a change

[wet vine]

lack of player

[atomic gorge]

mind you i love my openers too (mko?)

[severe spindle]

lmao

[wet vine]

[mko copypaste here]

just imagine it

[severe spindle]

yep

[carmine drum]

Mko could be usable

[atomic gorge]

no man it’s not 😭

[rare sequoia]

definitely not

[atomic gorge]

it is not usable 😭😭😭

[wet vine]

ok... i can't opener now

[severe spindle]

yep

[wet vine]

vince and summer did mko lol

just the first part

[severe spindle]

i mded my openers like crazy when i was playing in 7bag

[atomic gorge]

i mean if you get lucky you obviously can

but you need insane rng

[severe spindle]

i also lost 1 pps

on openers

[severe spindle]

not really no

[atomic gorge]

for mko?

[severe spindle]

i was able to pull on mr tspin pretty quickly

[rare sequoia]

cab do you have any thoughts on my opener, nobody has given any feedback

[atomic gorge]

you can dm me or ping me in a different channel haha

[rare sequoia]

alrighty didn't wanna be a bother

[severe spindle]

also 2l pcs r a lot more common now

[atomic gorge]

yea this is gonna be pretty meme i admit lol

[rare sequoia]

sometimes you'll get a normal bag in 7+x, I barely messed around with it and got mr tspin and dt (dt is pretty easy tho)

[atomic gorge]

mko is easy to get the first bag for

[severe spindle]

dt is very common

[atomic gorge]

but if you want any followup other than 3-6 stacking you gotta pray

[severe spindle]

also theres like 90 ways to build it

for dt-

[rare sequoia]

isn't that what MKO does anyway? I thought it's whole purpose was 6-3

[wet vine]

yep, 2nd bag and more is hard or impossible

[severe spindle]

yea

[atomic gorge]

have you seen my gameplay before haha

[rare sequoia]

I have yeah

[severe spindle]

yea but ur caboozled pie(god of mko)

[rare sequoia]

that's still possible right?

or maybe not ig

[atomic gorge]

the way i do it with the floats is definitely no longer possible

[severe spindle]

yea

[rare sequoia]

I see, no way to maintain 3w height diff?

[atomic gorge]

and the pc followup think is doomed

[atomic gorge]

there sometimes is a way but to even get to that setup is pretty bag reliant

[rare sequoia]

Mko 4l was always scuffed

[atomic gorge]

by pc followup im referring to the one i invented btw

[rare sequoia]

ohh do you have a link anywhere? Idk if I've seen it before

[severe spindle]

ive seen it on stream i think..

[atomic gorge]

https://youtu.be/oHT17T0aJ4Q?si=8fOo2X_3qJr9x4z1

10L pc at around 1:50

[rare sequoia]

tyty

oh

10 line pcs are never reliable

[atomic gorge]

yea

[rare sequoia]

ah nvm i have seen that one before

anyways sorry for derailing

[atomic gorge]

yea anyway

[rare sequoia]

I still feel like some alternatives should at least be considered before adding this to TL for real

[atomic gorge]

im gonna go to bed but feel free to ping me if you have any questions or need anything

[atomic gorge]

i agree with this

definitely don’t want to rush a permanent change

[rare sequoia]

have a good night

[atomic gorge]

since i know that even though osk wants a more dynamic game the precedent just isn’y there

anyhow gn o/

[wet vine]

gn

[winged tartan]

frankly i think they underestimate how difficult it is to loop PC, period lol

let alone without absolute 7 bag reliance

and in a versus setting too, no less

[severe spindle]

maybe a poll to see if this shouldbe added in or not?

[rare sequoia]

I think it's too much for just a poll

[winged tartan]

i still don't agree with the people who say 4w is particularly buffed
i know how not having openers effects it, but is everyone forgetting that tetr.io's popularity from 2020 was founded on the core concept of making 4w unusable???

[rare sequoia]

but then again idk how much osk is gonna read and how much people are gonna have to say bar the same things over and over again

[winged tartan]

the only counterpoints i've gotten are two particularly low quality recordings of moments against people who didn't seem to really do openers before this change

[rare sequoia]

I mean I've already said what I've had to say in this thread but I don't think many people have seen that because at the time me, baron, and zhun were pretty much the only active people discussing it

[atomic gorge]

ok sorry i lied im not asleep yet

4w is buffed, if anything just by virtue of counterpressuring without openers being difficult

openers are a good counter to 4w because they are similarly braindead to blitz out fast

actually freestyling pressure takes a lot of skill

[rare sequoia]

yeah this whole change is mostly for the lower ranks as well, who would have a considerably harder time building up a counter than say high u to x ranks

[winged tartan]

sure, but back then we didn't have extremely high caliber openers like stickspin and the like

and the measures still prevented people from dominating with 4W and nothing else

[stone leaf]

make it so you cant get two Ts in first bag and 7+x would alot better

(only complaint)

[wet vine]

what i said yeah, not literally buffed but with other opener being nerfed, it's hard to counter

wow cabz lied being asleep

[lyric heart]

#1234075433184788520 (0 messages) was moved here.

[wet vine]

lmao

[still mica]

can we have no infds day, so clean garbage will be more challenging?

[wet vine]

@night glade it's only for today, 7+x is the bag

[winged tartan]

they were already mentioned into the thread

that's what the merge command does

[night glade]

thanks, didnt know about that

[wet vine]

look they still didn't know 😎

[fossil forum]

they don't read this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/696095920248455229/1234049285155328071/image.png?ex=662f5175&is=662dfff5&hm=b44d248c82237ce26d76ee76d5ba59452db96d3af145fe8f8585c4dd0ed8f922&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1200&height=64

[wet vine]

yep

can be easily missed ngl

[night glade]

ooh yeah i see it lol

mb :3

[fossil forum]

I proposing a solution:

[wet vine]

or a pop-up when u press enter mm for the first time

"It's 7+X bag today, enter at your own risk"

[wanton mulch]

"It's 7+X bag today, your time to shine"

[warped steeple]

I'm enjoying this feature quite a lot! :D 👍
I like playing with this little bit more variety from the usual openers.

[scenic slate]

I just have to say I disagree with implementing this into tl

maybe make it a choice, only do it if both players agree

[cinder vapor]

I mean I may be biased though idm the new change

[opal hamlet]

They couldn’t handle it and forfeited?

[cinder vapor]

yup lol

[opal hamlet]

lmao they must be an opener main

Mad they can’t do it anymore

[loud hazel]

7+X in tl will create a huge split in the community

and modern tetris is already a really fragmented community

tetrio with 7 bag is like the definitive modern tetris game and 7+x will just make it harder for new people to start enjoying modern tetris

because when they come in they wouldn't know which game to play and what to learn

[lament elm]

I agree.

The bag system should be left unchanged for main competitive modes.

[loud hazel]

cuz jstris will have 7 bag, teto 7+x, tec the zone and the score attack, ppt the whole puyo puyo part

[odd dew]

7+x should be official lol (not biased!!!!)

[lament elm]

But I'm surprised by the amount of chatters that are playing badly without their openers.

I've seen like 3, 4 peeps that are bragging about climbibg

[rare sequoia]

up to a certain level openers can really inflate your tr

or maybe they didn't read the sign and tried their normal openers idk lol

[odd dew]

I was doing ms2 onetrick until I reached U when I realized openers do nothing on that rank

[loud hazel]

considering that this is an update catered towards newer players, it will make things even more confusing for them

[lament elm]

That or most chatters that do interact with the community are the one that will learn of the existence of openers

ig

[loud hazel]

we shouldn't look at tetrio in a vacuum, we need to look at the general modern tetris scene as a whole

[rare sequoia]

Openers do plenty in U rank, it's just that at that point you need to also have a bit of other skills as well

[odd dew]

yeah but they can counter them very well

I thought maybe playing faster was the key but I reached my speed limit

[loud hazel]

many people including myself in that rank can comfortably 100 apm spam 6-3, the only thing openers do is give them that seamless transition into the nidgame

[odd dew]

how about we make 7+x a few days a month

[loud hazel]

and taking away that transition will screw people over at start

but then people will adapt

and the game will become a boring 6-3 infds stall fest

[grand topaz]

Funny argument but new players just get opener mained and leave

[odd dew]

lol

[hardy beacon]

tetris isnt meant for everyone

[tough wagon]

people acting like new players actually use queue

[hardy beacon]

changing the bag appeal to the type of player who play item room on tf

[loud hazel]

or the people who complain about the lack of items in competitive smash

[tough wagon]

i personally dont think 7+x is that bad of an idea in something like a season, but if it's gonna be 7+x forever then i dont really like it

[odd dew]

when i was new I play till lvl10 then get in tl, then closed the game when I got down to 500tr

[grand topaz]

7-bag moves to the custom rooms lol

Tbh I like that this would differentiate tetrio more

[loud hazel]

7+X bag moves to custom rooms lol

[odd dew]

I don't think there's anyone using openers under that rank

[grand topaz]

Already been and it was sad

[rare sequoia]

Is that always a good thing though is the question

[loud hazel]

yall had the option to play it there

why force it on everyone

[grand topaz]

Bro there's stickspin 2 pps in B- into D stacking on md

[grand topaz]

7-bag was forced on everyone by default

[tough wagon]

imagine gambling 50% normal 7 bag 50% 7+x

[rare sequoia]

Sometimes games are similar because it works and that's what people want

[odd dew]

that wasn't what I remembered lol

[grand topaz]

That's how it is now

[hardy beacon]

7 bag is a human right some ppl never played a tetris without it since the gameboy

[grand topaz]

I watch many replays and streams

[loud hazel]

srs spins is forced on everyone by default

[odd dew]

I remember opponents dying themself

[loud hazel]

t spins are forced on everyone by default

[grand topaz]

It's SRS+ and I'm sure some would like SRS-X

cool 180 spins there

[tough wagon]

tetrio doesnt follow guideline anyways

[loud hazel]

hold piece is forced on everyone by defaut

[tough wagon]

not spins, not 180, not attack table, not handling settings

[rare sequoia]

It's not forced you chose to play a guideline esque game which utilizes these things

[tough wagon]

none of those are guideline

[loud hazel]

wrong reply

[loud hazel]

my man, its the basic modern mechanics

i remember coming into tetrio a year ago

and complaining about t spins

[grand topaz]

Ok but why would tetrio need to be guideline

It already has SRS+ and 180

[loud hazel]

"im playing tetris wraaah why do i have memorize stupid hard setups to do the better attack"

its the same argument all over again

[tough wagon]

when did i say that tetrio needed to be guideline

[grand topaz]

I figured part of the argument is that 7+X bad because not guideline

[tough wagon]

read more messages also that one was a reply to someone who deleted their message

[grand topaz]

Ah

Sorry I'm busy eating ice cream

Can't read fast

[rare sequoia]

??

[hardy beacon]

the fact the op says its more fair and more skill based is totally laugable

its more rng and less skill based besides cheesing to be honest like its the most unwarranted uneccessary change of gaming history

[grand topaz]

The whole point is less exact repetition of the exact same pattern

[grand topaz]

it's just less SDPC more gaming

[hardy beacon]

im a cheese missdrop player like the bag change would benefit me and i hate it

[tough wagon]

it's as fair as previous

[odd dew]

less sdpc is definitely better

[tough wagon]

theres always gonna be meta playstyles

[lament elm]

Then is shifting the meta the way to do things ?

[rare sequoia]

Honestly I still stand by nerfing opener attack being the way to go

[lament elm]

In a game more focused on person vs person more than units or decks

[tough wagon]

me personally i think there should be different seasons of tl, or a second mode like tl where the game mechanic changes

honestly idk

[hardy beacon]

a news flash: openers are fair anyone can do them if they try

[tough wagon]

i dont actually think 7+x is bad but i just feel opener should be part of the game

[lament elm]

I mean even though I don't crutch openers, I really like the idea of being able to kickstart a clean and volatile game right from the get-go.

[tough wagon]

it's a whole big mechanic of tetris being removed

[lament elm]

Besides, defense also feels more exhilarating against big pressure.

[odd dew]

when will openers for 7+x be invented

[rare sequoia]

Openers are a core part of modern tetris

[tough wagon]

agree

[tight harbor]

agree

[rare sequoia]

I've already made one and posted it in this thread

it's nothing amazing but it's consistent

[lament elm]

tbh, outside of soft openers, nothing much probably

so many possibilities for 7+X

well there's congruents ig

but idk

[rare sequoia]

Yeah

[odd dew]

this is like when fortnite added no build mode
though tetrio doesn’t have enough players for making 7+x a separate mode

[rare sequoia]

queue times through the roof

[tough wagon]

i mean one of the reason why a lot of players become inactive is because the game is the same with no changes

adding a second ladder with changing rulesets would be interesting to me

[rare sequoia]

I agree there should be changes but I don't think this is the right one

charsys is also coming around eventually

[odd dew]

maybe i’m crazy but how about voting for the mode before the game start

[tough wagon]

what if 1 to 1

💀

[odd dew]

random

lol

like two players told each other not to do openers

[rare sequoia]

idk about you but I don't think I'd wanna load up a ranked game just to maybe play the mode I want

[tough wagon]

i personally would just ask for 2 tls, one defualt and the other changing, allow option to queue for both at the same time gg

[hardy beacon]

why does tetris need to change honestly like i think the reason why alot of ppl play it is cos its the perfect game

it doesnt need changes like overwatch

[hollow mist]

still doesnt solve the problem

[tough wagon]

it's a good game but it gets stale for the long time players

[hollow mist]

what if the new player gets screwed over by rng

[hardy beacon]

im got 1500 hour of tetrio like i never once wanted a change

[tough wagon]

the game is still largely decided by skill

[hollow mist]

no as in like

the point of 7+x was to stop opener maining at lower tr

[lament elm]

Having luck is one thing, but you need skill to capitalise on them too.

[hollow mist]

so new players can still get screwed over if it were randomised

[tough wagon]

u act as if new players use the queue

[little harbor]

ok but we could have a mode be just that and annother where we get fun stuff like 7+x

[lament elm]

Before it was no skill no luck, memorisation and fine enough queue usage.

[hollow mist]

opener mains?

definitely

[grand topaz]

the worst, gimmicky part of modern tetris

[loud hazel]

nuh uh

[rare sequoia]

do you just want to play classic

[hollow mist]

this might be a terrible idea, but what if it was only implemented at lower ranks

[little harbor]

i disagree

[tough wagon]

how to scroll all the way up to view the original feature request post on mobile

[hardy beacon]

if a low player gets destroyed by an opener and quits so what

if they love tetris they can learn and do their own

[loud hazel]

name a single competitive game where a beginner wont get destroyed at first

[little harbor]

such a wierd mentality tbh i think tetris should be accessible to everyone and as much as i love openers you do have to recognise they do push away alot of people from the game esp lower ranks

[loud hazel]

its up to the same exact beginner to either quit or grind their way onto being better

[hardy beacon]

it is acceicible

its totally even playing field

[tough wagon]

rock paper scissors

[hardy beacon]

if u get matched and lose a game maybe u might win the next one

[tough wagon]

best game no cap

[tight harbor]

it is competitive?

[hardy beacon]

it doesnt mean the bag needs to change

[tough wagon]

yes, one of the most

[tight harbor]

[hollow mist]

why tho

[merry breach]

wtf 7x league

[loud hazel]

ive played a lot of competitive games in my life and i think the part of getting beat down at first is necessary

[hollow mist]

the point was to stop low rank players from opener maining new players

right

[hardy beacon]

the ranks sort themself out

if a player gets better they rank up eventually

[tight harbor]

tho I feel like it unnecessary because rank sorts out anyway

[little harbor]

i mean i guess in that aspect it would work but the core gameplay switching once you get a certain rank is iffy

[tight harbor]

and if an opener main is stuck at the rank and you can't counter then

it's honestly a skill issue

[hollow mist]

but when u get to a certain point its not a crutch any more

its just smth to start ur stack

[merry breach]

they gotta get to that certain point tho

[loud hazel]

and?

[hollow mist]

thats kind of what ive been talking abt

7+x at lower ranks

[merry breach]

no dont get me wrong im not saying this is a good idea

but its an idea

[hollow mist]

so that when they do eventually get to the point where they have a solid midgame, they can learn openers

[merry breach]

fair

[hardy beacon]

if someone does an insane opener in a low rank just promote them to s+ if it matters so much

[little harbor]

7+x being a togglable second ladder still seems like the obvious here so that newer players can learn the game without getting bullied and then go to normal ladder once they’re good enougg

[tight harbor]

they will go up in rank if they win

it's shrimple

[hollow mist]

thats not rlly the point

[rare sequoia]

Would higher rank or lower rank take priority if one who could use openers matched with one who couldn't yet

[hollow mist]

good point actually

[loud hazel]

i think that the proper mindset people should adopt is not "i lost - the game is broken" but "i lost - im not good enough"

[merry breach]

^^

[little harbor]

higher rank like how if an a rank fights an s rank its a ft5

[hollow mist]

i mean

[tight harbor]

getting obilerated by stuffs you don't know is part of the fun of being a beginner imo

[hollow mist]

it would only be a problem if it was actually implemented

[loud hazel]

one of the best ssbm players of all time, mew2king once said "if youre not frame perfect 99 out of 100 times - you're not good enough, i am not good enough"

[loud hazel]

yes

[hollow mist]

so as long as theres nothing wrong w the basic idea everything else can be figured out later

[hollow mist]

not when all 10 of ur rank up games are against sdpc loopers

[charred walrus]

we need to study the relationship between vs/apm and approval of 7+X

[rare sequoia]

so true

[hollow mist]

yes

based

[tight harbor]

I was also C rank once ik

it's fun

[loud hazel]

my first ever teto experience

is getting beat down horribly by my friend who was an ss rank

[hardy beacon]

at wat rank vsing some overwhelming opener is it bullying

[hollow mist]

u cant base an entire case on one example

[hardy beacon]

lets break this down

what rank does it stop the alleged bullying problem

where is the line

[loud hazel]

instead of quitting, i decided to become better, as good as him

[long palm]

SS is a definite

[loud hazel]

i was a complainer at first though

[hollow mist]

once again thats not the whole picture

[charred walrus]

openers are too easy to execute meaning ppl just crutch them

[tight harbor]

A rank kinda

[hollow mist]

the game devs have to consider the larger community trying to get into the game

[hardy beacon]

i just dont understand

[tight harbor]

that's where you start to encounter lotta opener mains

[hardy beacon]

i been a ss to u player for years and to even consider changing the bag like makes me physically sick

[tight harbor]

so most of the ppl are starting to know how to play against them

[rare sequoia]

The problem isn't that they're too easy it's the fact that they give too much for too little

[hardy beacon]

i played thousands of ss games never felt bullied

[tight harbor]

without any explicit guide

[hollow mist]

thats bc ur not a new player trying to get into the game

[charred walrus]

yes, you just have low ranks where their only goal is to opener as fast as possible

[hardy beacon]

a new player who gets ss is into the game

[hollow mist]

playing against some a rank w a 2.5 pps sdpc

[tight harbor]

it will get sorted out anyway

what are 1 or 2 losses going to do

[hollow mist]

so u started off as an ss rank?

[charred walrus]

you can argue about whether thats good for the game but personally i think opener main is kinda silly

[hardy beacon]

i started on tetrio at ss

but i played alot of tetris friend before this exists

[hollow mist]

yea so thats not a complete beginner

[odd dew]

i started as d with 500tr

[hollow mist]

i started at c

and i can tell u for sure

getting opener mained every game was not fun

[tight harbor]

I jumped right away to TL after getting lvl 10 so I started at C+

[hardy beacon]

but its not a problem with the bag

cant u go practice and just overcome it one way or the other without the game changing

[tight harbor]

every game is hyperbole

[rare sequoia]

Even in SS it was a bit rough sometimes, and that was a year before sdpc and ms2 got popularized

[hollow mist]

the top 1000 blitz hardstuck ss players

they were a nightmare

[long palm]

i am an sdpc user with high blitz on my profile, but being dead honest, i was planning on improving my ds efficiency anyways

[hollow mist]

problem is no A rank even knows what ds efficiency is

let alone improving at it

[rare sequoia]

honestly Tetris games in general need a tutorial

When I first started I didn't even know what caused garbage to appear or that clearing garbage sent lines

[hollow mist]

anyone else got more opinions on this?

might be worth letting someone know

if yall think its alright

[winged tartan]

yes i'm sure osk is aware of the idea

[signal crypt]

7+x introduces even more nuances on top of the fundamentals they need to learn

[odd dew]

that just mean only high ranks can do opener

[winged tartan]

yeah that's a little janky

[hollow mist]

fair ig

[winged tartan]

it'd be a hard edge where the ingame mechanics suddenly just act differently (yes i know there's a FT difference in the ranks)

[odd dew]

ft is fine

[boreal drift]

Here's your obligatory announcement that we're closing in on 4k messages

[odd dew]

it doesn’t change game mechanics

[rare sequoia]

hm I guess you also have to consider a lower ranked player being used to 7+x and it feeling weird when it becomes 7 bag as well

[winged tartan]

yeah i'm just bracing for someone to correct me

[hollow mist]

but doesnt that allow them to develop better fundamentals

[tight harbor]

server is active

[hollow mist]

so wouldnt going to a fixed set of 7 pieces be easier

[boreal drift]

Moreso this thread itself

[winged tartan]

what do the fundamentals mean if the round's over in 8 seconds?

[signal crypt]

even in U ranks rounds can end at 8 seconds if the bag favors the opener

[rare sequoia]

in x rank as well

[hollow mist]

isnt that the point of implementing 7+x at lower ranks?

[winged tartan]

yeah i know it sounds stupid but just 4 days ago we were looking at matches like this

[hollow mist]

to prevent that from happening?

[winged tartan]

this is at a higher rank

[hollow mist]

ah right

its not a crutch any more tho

at higher ranks

[winged tartan]

i'm not deriving any implications from this matchup, just using it to illustrate that this is still an issue at higher ranks lol

[rare sequoia]

Zap do you think osk is considering alternatives to 7+x?

[odd dew]

just kill openers

[winged tartan]

i know as much as you do, osk's message history is public and we haven't discussed anything behind curtains

[rare sequoia]

gotcha

[boreal drift]

Uhhhhh

[hollow mist]

at the end of the day it doesnt rlly affect me tbh

just no more tki

[boreal drift]

Yeaaaaaah

[hollow mist]

and pco 5-4

[signal crypt]

the issue we are dealing with is the lower rank getting absolutely bodied with opener

while i think that if you want to climb the rank highers, you need to counter the opener, disrupting the opener phase also makes lower rank gameplay less monotonous

[odd dew]

pco works fine with 7+x

[tight harbor]

dull opener phase
less ping pong

[hollow mist]

rlly

[odd dew]

yeah just other boxes

[boreal drift]

Sometimes

[hollow mist]

u can do pco w 2 s pieces and 2 z pieces?

[signal crypt]

any pc works fine if you know how to solve

[hollow mist]

enlighten me

[rare sequoia]

yeah every game opening with 6-3 is a bit unappealing

[winged tartan]

loong pco

[hollow mist]

yea but the t piece is gone

ykw cab is right

[boreal drift]

Supposedly it promotes creative play but like how the regret system in 5m blast went, people'll find other ways lol

[odd dew]

the whole pco is just a box with not a box

[hollow mist]

just keep the t piece consistent

everything else is fine

[grand topaz]

no I like the next queue and the hold and the t-spins and the rotation system (except the I piece, something is wrong with that lmao)

[grand topaz]

I mean if you want player retention then you don't really want them to quit

[tight harbor]

pls fix I piece

[rare sequoia]

sometimes your messages make it sound like you dislike guideline in general

[winged tartan]

here's the thing you need to know about PC, you place this many pieces and you can technically solve this with all available information

even with 7+3, the chances are just stupid high most of the time

(solve looks like this)

[charred walrus]

Its just the s z spin right

[grand topaz]

goodbye SDPC-spin-to-win

[hollow mist]

i mean yea i can still pc

[charred walrus]

Oh

[hollow mist]

but when i get 2 s pieces and 2 z pieces at the start

thats when i struggle a bit

[hardy beacon]

the better player will still win 99 % of the time with the bag anyway

[grand topaz]

correct, I even see DT into TST Tower, but MD and suddenly it's C- stacking

[hardy beacon]

so players who lose and get upset will still be that way on any bag

[grand topaz]

I like that the game rewards building patterns rather than repetition

[loud hazel]

this game i had rn is the prime example

[hollow mist]

C- stacking is crazy lol

[loud hazel]

thats a random ss that matched up against me

opener or not the better player will always win

[grand topaz]

👍

[grand topaz]

it is actually the problem of the 7-bag predictability

[winged tartan]

i was trying to get a practical example but it's proving difficult lol

[hollow mist]

not at c rank no

[grand topaz]

Always been

[winged tartan]

would love to see a replay because more often than not the pc solvers humble you and i hate perfect clear solvers

[loud hazel]

c deez huge nuts

[hardy beacon]

honestly

i dont understand like literally my tetris brain cant compute

[winged tartan]

it's like, always possible, always
practical? i don't think so, but still

[loud hazel]

gottem

[hardy beacon]

wat exactly is an opener below say s- rank like lets be real

like why is it an issue exactly

[boreal drift]

[grand topaz]

I feel bad for the low rank streamers who are told "you wanna win? Have you learned SDPC-spin" and then the game is always SDPC-spin, people say it's variety but it's really not. Every piece is predetermined for 4 bags

[rare sequoia]

?

[boreal drift]

Yada yada someone spends time memorizing a setup and sends a 30 spike to the other player

The other player quits and boom tetr.io loses another player

[odd dew]

😦

[hollow mist]

sounds abt right

[hardy beacon]

these players "bullying" with openers are either smurfing or going to rank up anyway

so wat exactly is the problem

[grand topaz]

this is A+ rank on the right

[hardy beacon]

lol

that guy on the right is goin places

[tight harbor]

this tbh