https://ch.tetr.io/u/cbmko123 is apparently Z rank but with an RD under 100 and thus on the leaderboard. How is someone unranked yet on the TL Leaderboard?
EDIT: also affecting https://ch.tetr.io/u/rata
#Z Rank on the Leaderboard?
fair sapphire
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I suspect this has something to do with users completing their placement matches under some rare/unique circumstance, because I swear the anomalous user has almost never played more than 20 games, and hangs around very high RD, as demonstrated below with historical statistics:
fair sapphire
well rata has over 1800 games sooo
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yeah i know just saying this's the precedent
fair sapphire
so this has happened before, just under different circumstances
interesting
I wonder if this is somewhat related to the recent changes I've noticed to how TR works for me in the U/X inflation zone (which both of these players are in)
okay no it doesn't, DEATHIC and IMOKAY both have this glitch down at 23.4 which, unless there was a massive change (which there could well have been) is definitely not in inflation
mossy narwhal
@frigid hornet if you have time, also check if inflation systems are working exactly like pre-gm2 as per "recent changes I've noticed to how TR works for me"
mossy narwhal
I wonder if this is somewhat related to the recent changes I've noticed to how T...
wdym with "recent changes I've noticed to how TR works for me"?
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#tetra·league message / #tetra·league message related
fair sapphire
wdym with "recent changes I've noticed to how TR works for me"?
a) if I'm on a losing streak, I lose less TR than normal
b) if I lose then win, I get more tr than normal
for an example of b, look at how I just got +36 from a 23.4k
in the past beating a 23.4 as a 24.1 would be like 20 for me
mossy narwhal
you sure the tr display there is the same as whats on your profile?
fair sapphire
yes
mossy narwhal
oooh i get it lol
fair sapphire
I've been keeping my spreadsheet the whole time and it's not once desynced with my profile
mossy narwhal
looks like the inflation system is broken
its applying the change only to the TR and not to the underlying value
fair sapphire
😔 I was hoping it was an intentional change to make inflation zone less hellish
fair sapphire
its applying the change only to the TR and not to the underlying value
oh that's interesting
mossy narwhal
TR is only a display value, it's thrown away once you do another game
mossy narwhal
so what this does is make your TR just track around your base TR by a set amount, and it flips sides when you win/lose
fair sapphire
okay yeah that would explain it
mossy narwhal
when you win it flips over to "higher than real" side so thats what makes it feel good to flip around from losing/winning
fair sapphire
in general I've found it causes my tr to be generally higher than it would be otherwise? like, it seems like losing streaks are less loss than normal rather than flipping from win to loss being more than normal
mossy narwhal
hmm no, the third loss should be normal amount essentially
fair sapphire
losing as 24.2 vs. 24.4 used to be like 30 to 35 tr and it was only 23 against DOGGOMP3
(third loss in a row)
mossy narwhal
well technically the 2nd too
fair sapphire
anyway mayyyybe talk about the busted inflation system should be in a new thread since this one was intended to be for those odd Z ranks on the leaderboard
mossy narwhal
well, i know the issue now so 's ok
fair sapphire
nice
fair sapphire
well technically the 2nd too
can confirm second loss is also affected
-24 TR as a 24227 against MORI (24499) is still in less-than-normal territory
mossy narwhal
maybe MORI just won recently and since you just lost your TRs look further apart but the underlying ratings are not
not sure
fair sapphire
🤔
mossy narwhal
the rest of this code looks normal
fair sapphire
I see what you mean yeah
mossy narwhal
i do want to talk about what can be done to the TR system tho (not in this thread but yknow) cuz theres some issues
- it doesnt feel nice a lot of the time, i think letting TR sway away a bit from glicko can be good for the Mood, i think what you felt isnt a bad sensation (dampening and quick turnarounds of streaks)
- that U/X inflation zone is a meme and is literally not doing anything useful
- the TR curve needs to be adjusted to make the edges (esp. X) a little less cramped (which is what the U/X zone is for, actually - it's specifically meant to do that, but fails to)
fair sapphire
U/X inflation zone before the recent bug was just a depression factory for me and so many others
mossy narwhal
TR is essentially a sigmoid, it just needs to be less Steep
fair sapphire
the memeing is to hide the pain 😔
mossy narwhal
the idea of TR is that its a sigmoid whose steepness is defined by your RD, it becomes less steep the higher your RD (essentially pulling you toward 12.5K)
fair sapphire
the idea of TR is that its a sigmoid whose steepness is defined by your RD, it b...
you'd be surprised how many people I've seen who don't actually realize/understand that RD is factored into the TR calculation like that
mossy narwhal
...thats cool and all but while it makes a nice percentage value of change of beating an avg player if you give it the domain 0~100 but its not That nice as a stat
mossy narwhal
you'd be surprised how many people I've seen who don't actually realize/understa...
its pretty mild, its only there to tune it for that percentage value
after all, thats what the formula (original name GLIXARE) is designed for
to as closely approximate glickmann's own (incredibly slow) way of calculating % chance of beating all players as possible
fair sapphire
maybe MORI just won recently and since you just lost your TRs look further apart...
actually wait I have an even better example that would disprove this
I played 10E earlier while I was 24221 and he was 24788 and I straight-up lost 0 which has never, ever happened, even when I'm against 24.9ks as a 23.9 (which did happen once)
mossy narwhal
the real way is to just calculate win chance to every opponent possible and use that which isnt very .. doable so glixare approximates it
fair sapphire
the _real_ way is to just calculate win chance to every opponent possible and us...
I think glixare on its own does a decent-ish job at this but I've seen a few people who don't really get the whole point
I've even seen it said (can't remember where, sorry) that we'd be better off just showing the glicko
mossy narwhal
it does it well but that doesnt make it a nice number to play with
its a great statistic to order people by and create leaderboards from, moreso than glicko alone
glicko isnt the nicest to play with either, altho it makes player to player comparisons easier
when i say play with, i mean just from a game design and UI perspective, not a statistics perspective (im not a statistics person lol)
ive seen ppl vouch for displaying glicko before and i kinda do want to put it on the matchup screen when i redesign it
the redesign of it will show quite a bit of info so going into playercards wont be a Standard Thing To Do
fair sapphire
creating leaderboards with tr instead of glicko imo is a nice inventive for top players to keep playing more to keep their RD decently down, since there is a noticeable difference between someone with 90 RD and 70
just look at USAKI_NONO and OLDTALL, 21 glk difference but usaki comes out higher because oldtall is just barely ranked while usaki keeps a respectable 72 rd
fair sapphire
but this actually reflects the massive skill gaps in x rank
an ss might get a round or two on a low x, but a low x against diao? lolno
something more logarithmic in nature?
glossy fractal
this is how it works in like every other elo/glicko based game
mossy narwhal
mm i dont like the idea of TR not having a defined range
mossy narwhal
yeah thats my plan
i wont throw away the current sigmoid tho since it's useful as a % as i said
fair sapphire
Updates to the leaderboard Z ranks:
IMOKAY got ranked again by beating FASDFASDFASD last night
RATA got ranked again by losing to... well me lol I somehow matched them
CBMKO123 and DEATHIC are still affected, however. I have no clue whether anyone else is affected below U rank, and I have no clue whether any more of these strange occurrences could crop up in the future.
https://ch.tetr.io/u/aguywithout1 well another one did crop up
I think if someone gets an RD between 97 and 100 after their game, the game gives them ? instead of their actual rank?
either that or the game is only giving them their rank after they play a match if their RD was under 100 before the match, rather than after
from a coding perspective the second is much more likely
fair sapphire
either that or the game is only giving them their rank after they play a match i...
related(?)
my glicko and RD shown in-game on the tetra league menu are consistently from before my most recent match, rather than after.
mossy narwhal
ah, its a off-by-one issue that happens for one game after you dip below 100RD
will be fixed next patch run!
ill bump everyone who has the Z rank back up to 100RD when the patch runs just for leaderboard quality
lilac rapids
https://ch.tetr.io/u/imnotlikethat010 this bug is back again
somewhat significantly this user is last on the tl leaderboard
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well i banned them since this was beyond obvious throwing
here's all the remotely useful public API info you can get
in addition there's also
https://ch.tetr.io/u/northartemis
https://ch.tetr.io/u/ldiaz60
https://ch.tetr.io/u/crimsontiee (this one's at 98.65RD)
lilac rapids
all these have higher rd than the one you banned
but still under 100 hm
northartemis has rising rd but they were probably 98.38 beforehand since it's been 8 days since their last game
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yeah my guess is cancellation is, as it always has been, broken