Sega Mega Drive/CD/32X

[glass shale]

@warm falcon does this happen on your side too? https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/7

[warm falcon]

works fine in my test code

[glass shale]

Thanks for confirming! So it's probably something happening in the framework?

[old sierra]

If I get some time this week I will run through the unlicensed games on the new core, I did it a good while back on the old core, so can check to see if we have parity . There may be some odd mappers missing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lLPt6ZfYePgnsPkTbAszgHtF1dNiEa0Np9WRtGK5vUE/edit?usp=drivesdk

[warm falcon]

hm, it glitches sometimes when I reset though

like some trash data is written to VDP registers 🤔

[hard silo]

Maybe 68k bug?

[warm falcon]

yea, something to do with 68k interrupt mask state

[warm falcon]

should be fixed in nuked-md v1.3

[hard silo]

Thank you!

[glass shale]

Out of curiosity, how does this kind of issue happen on systems implemented from decapped chips? Human error when translating to HDL?

Thanks for the quick fix @warm falcon ❤️

[warm falcon]

yea, missed one transistor

[glass shale]

This is simply amazing! Thanks!

[glass shale]

Aaaannnd EEPROM support is added 😱🤣

Sorg is really on a roll

[glass shale]

Yep! EEPROM support works! Tried with the vanilla Monica game and it really saved!

[fallow dome]

lol that’s the game you decided to test eeprom with

[hard silo]

Can someone build latest MegaDrive with the PSG changes?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/commit/7977f622184e6f1731f493f740841af8f69f631e

[plain quiver]

Already in progress.

Gimme some time for finishing the build.

[pine crystal]

I had to stop the build process for the previous commit that was added. 😄

[glass shale]

My daughter loves Monica’s Gang! 😅

[plain quiver]

Same.

[knotty walrus]

So is there a build in progress or not?

If not I build

[pine crystal]

There are at least two here going.

[pine crystal]

Thanks. I'm still going with mine, because I always change the OSD color to gray on everything I build.

[pale plover]

So if adding turbo as an option to the current core isn't possible, would it be possible to make a separate core for that?

[knotty walrus]

Right now I will try to add Turbo to see

[hard silo]

There is already the Genesis core that has turbo

[hard silo]

@tidal python

This has fixes to PSG and audio

[fickle hemlock]

isn't the turbo on the genesis core a bit smarter than just speeding up the cpu clock or anything?

iirc it actually does something to the memory buses instead

[pine crystal]

I'm sure Sorg will get around to it eventually.

[fickle hemlock]

well if sorg can't do it its really impossible 😄

[pine crystal]

I would imagine he would at least like to get it feature parity with the previous one as much as possible.

[glass shale]

He will add the possible ones for sure

[manic ridge]

Oh it was Sorg? I thought you did it lol

[limber pine]

It's not?

[glass shale]

I don’t have the skills 😔

[manic ridge]

Hey it's okay I just saw your comment on the Github and thought "hot damn Bootsector, you did it!" lol

Sorg is truly on a roll

went right over from Neo Geo to Genesis

[fallow dome]

That’s a great segue since the Neo Geo is basically a souped up Genesis.

[manic ridge]

totally

[west sable]

Its all about the CPU. The Game Boy is just a souped up Master System after all..

wait

[manic ridge]

Yeah they're basically identical

[knotty walrus]

lmao

[pine crystal]

Just wish I didn't have to keep tearing the plastic shells off my AES cartridges to get them to fit in the Genesis.

[west sable]

The Famicom was originally going to have a Z80, but due to supply issues it went with the pared down Ricoh 6502 instead

[brittle geyser]

Same CPU in Neogeo and Megadrive (Motorola 68000) but it runs at a lower clock speed (7.6 MHz instead of 12Mhz)

[pine crystal]

See? Exactly the same!

[west sable]

And I mean by this same logic

[fallow dome]

Neo Geo:

CPU: Motorola 68000 @ 12 MHz
CPU co-processor: Zilog Z80
Memory: 64 KB of RAM, 84 KB of video RAM and 2 KB of audio RAM

Genesis

CPU: Motorola 68000 CPU @ 7.6 MHz
CPU co-processor: Zilog Z80
Memory: 64 KB of RAM, 64 KB of video RAM and 8 KB of audio RAM

Checkmate nerds!!!!

[west sable]

The Genesis is just a souped up Amiga

[knotty walrus]

The Amiga is just a souped up Atari ST

[west sable]

Anachronistic upgrade paths are the best paths

[pine crystal]

You don't need a CD32. Just add the Sega CD, and voila!

[fallow dome]

Programming languages are different you can’t do that

I am expert

[west sable]

Expert for nintendo ds programming

[pine crystal]

Universal translator... duh!

[fallow dome]

no!

This is not fantasy land

Neo Geo and Genesis, same hardware

One is souped up

reality!!

[knotty walrus]

No you need CD and 32X

[pine crystal]

Ahh... we have serious Robby this morning. I like yesterday Robby better.

[knotty walrus]

Because you need the CD part and the 32 part

[brittle geyser]

Same sound chip too : Yamaha YM2612 for FM synthesis but MegaDrive also has a Texas Instruments SN76489 (PSG)

[west sable]

Neo Geo and X68000, same hardware, just souped up!

.. wait

[fallow dome]

yes!!

[knotty walrus]

The Neo geo uses a 2610, no?

[fallow dome]

Oh damnit I can’t troll you

Fml

[pale plover]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[fallow dome]

It is, if the Neo Geo was a souped up SNES the games would look better!

[tall prawn]

Where's can I get the alternative MegaDrive Core manually ?

[fallow dome]

It’s downloaded as part of the regular update script. It’s called “MegaDrive”

[pine crystal]

You can't make SNES games look better. Nintendo tried. That's why they had to go backwards with the N64.

[glass shale]

Latest version is not released yet. But there’s a build here that you can download https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/files/12513901/MegaDrive_20230904.zip

[tidal python]

I'm going to run it through MDFourier within the next hour or two.

[old sierra]

As an aside we could do with someone running the Neo Geo core through MDF now that NG MDF is live and the core has been reworked, be good to see how accurate it is

[manic ridge]

hell yeah if there's anything it's still falling short in, now's a great time to squash it

[fallow dome]

As we established earlier, it should be a souped up version of the Genesis MDF

[west sable]

I dont usually stan for patreons. But Sorg does a lot of work for the project and I think it's a good gesture.

[fallow dome]

What she said!

#1096614378968727652 message

[old sierra]

Artemio was going to run it on the core but he's been busy, but I guess if he has the test results he can compare with his ones of his various units and see how the core is looking

-Neo Geo and NGCD that is

[frigid tapir]

Have I ever said how much I LOVE this community?

[hard silo]

Yeah true but we also need data from real hardware

[tidal python]

Nearly there, just needs a touch higher PSG gain. This is with no filtering and the YM2612.

Now let's see with the model 1 filter...

Hmm? MDFourier can't detect the pulse train.

Oh... PSG balance is worse now with the model 1 filter. Look at this:

Let me check the model 2 filter while I'm at it compared to both the VA3 model 1 and VA1.8 model 2.

Yeesh... I can already tell from the amplitude of the pulse train that PSG is going to be too quiet again.

Yeah, as expected:

[fickle hemlock]

thanks Ace seriously, you're the best for doing this stuff

[pine crystal]

I do like that model 2 filter.

Yeah, thank you for providing those.

[tidal python]

I'd only use it for the PCM channel, really. It murders the highs on FM instruments.

[fickle hemlock]

i think its the model2 that pings my nostalgia bone

like a slightly muffled tv or something

[tidal python]

I figured out why I was having trouble with the S/PDIF input on my sound card, please ignore the first two graphs with no filter and the model 1 filter. I will send new plots.

[pine crystal]

Funny thing is, I never owned a model 2 Genesis until many years later. For two decades all I had was a model 1 that I bought the day after they were first available in the US (first console I bought with my own money). I'm used to the more muffled sound of that one.

[tidal python]

^This one is with the issue I had resolved, so consider it valid.

[fickle hemlock]

i only ever played megadrive at a friends house and i'm not exactly sure what they had 😄

[tidal python]

No filter vs. VA3 model 1. A little more PSG gain and it's good.

Model 1 filter vs. VA3 model 1. PSG balance is definitely worse, and what is going on in the upper PSG frequency range? Seems like that's the filter which is supposed to fix After Burner II's high-pitched noise messing up the frequency response. This should probably be replace by a higher-order filter further up the spectrum.

Speaking of the high-pitched noise... it's still there.

Doesn't matter what filter settings you use.

[pine crystal]

Looks like maybe +1dB gain needed on 'No Filter', then it's golden.

[tidal python]

Thereabouts.

[pine crystal]

That is really odd behavior on the Model 1 filter...

[fickle hemlock]

can you work out what pitch the high pitch noise is ?

that might help sorg ? ( i know nothing about audio lol )

[hard silo]

Thank you @tidal python for providing the data. Could you please enlighten sorg with your findings?

[tidal python]

Will do, though I have some other things to do first.

And this was a test that I expected to fail because the actual hardware fails too: F-16 Fighting Falcon plays blind.

[knotty walrus]

The game of all time

[compact plover]

It appears EEPROM saving has been implemented on the latest build. Excellent work guys!

[manic ridge]

You're welcome. I opened the ticket so it's basically 100% my work

[compact plover]

All your credit are belong to us

[oak jungle]

can confirm that you can now save in Wonder Boy V, hooray

[manic ridge]

I got an email that you confirmed that you can now save

so are there any non-homebrew or whatever that are still having problems with the feature?

[glass shale]

Life on Mars, it seems

Oops. that's HB

[manic ridge]

right haha

[glass shale]

🙃

[manic ridge]

I was trying to avoid that specific game

[glass shale]

I'm replaying Pier Solar again because of this new core

[manic ridge]

also, you have to enable the feature and it has a weird name? BRAM or something?

[glass shale]

Working great so far

Already reached Goaman city

Which means mapping is working fine (and save too)

[oak jungle]

you can just set autosave to on like other cores and not have to worry about it

[manic ridge]

oh I thought it was a special option

from the way it sounded

[oak jungle]

well you still have to open the OSD to write out the save file of course

[manic ridge]

see this confuses me

[oak jungle]

I agree with the premise though, most users probably want that by default

[manic ridge]

but is this a new option?

I guess I should just get the core and look lol

[oak jungle]

no other cores have the same thing, can't remember if it defaults to on or off for those other ones though

seeing as I would have long since just switched it on

[manic ridge]

oh so it's just worded differently?

cause I never heard of no BRAM

lol

[manic ridge]

off, for strange reasons, unless they've changed it

[glass shale]

Sorg doesn’t like to stress out the SD with writes

He’s a little bit extremist on that IMHO though

[oak jungle]

I mean unless someone is just spamming the OSD open and close, and the game itself is constantly writing to the save ram it's never going to be an issue

[glass shale]

I mean

He’s too extreme on that lol

[manic ridge]

indeed, but I guess I'd rather have him safe than the opposite

[fallow dome]

Is that a good game?

[glass shale]

It’s awesome

[fallow dome]

Ah great!

[cloud otter]

Yeah, it's a solid RPG. With amazing music.

(both CD and FM are great)

[prisma hill]

Do mega CD games load on the new core?

[manic ridge]

No

it remains to be seen if that can be transferred over, sounds like there might not be enough space

[pale plover]

Tried out the unofficial build with the EEPROM saving, and now I want to play Wonder Boy in Monster World again.

[oak jungle]

I definitely will be

[prisma hill]

Ah yea didn't think about that. Well if it ends up not fitting I'm still very pleased with how it currently runs 🙂

[brittle geyser]

😍

[limber pine]

Is this like what happened with Genesis-core (separate core made for MegaCD) or is this implying even that can't be done?

On that end, Ecco The Dolphin's title music still sounds like one of it's channels is lower in volume than others - is this accurate to the real hardware?

On Genesis-core the music sounds more "louder"

[manic ridge]

Ace is checking the volume levels against MDFourier and everything is still getting tweaked I believe

[harsh iron]

I was out for a while

what about this new core?

how are the testings doing ? any real hardware comprovation to do ?

[hard silo]

I did VDP test

Passes all

Also we need to verify audio

Ace has provided some results

[harsh iron]

fantastic !

[hard silo]

Sorg is going to push new release soon with audio fixes. It would be nice if you could give the core a round

[fallow dome]

Am I crazy or did you post it failed the other day?

[hard silo]

Ah no

[fallow dome]

Sorry, my bad.

[west sable]

VDP stands for Very Dumb Poster in Robby's case

[fallow dome]

[fallow dome]

this is why I own a Super Nintendo, they love and appreciate me in #1096636309679919136

[west sable]

I will slowly make my way over there, as much as the 3mhz clock speed will allow anyway

[graceful tulip]

Is there more information somewhere about this choice? "Nuked MD currently targets NMOS 68k, NMOS Z80 and FC1004. No real mega drive used such combination, but Model 1 VA7 would be closest (CMOS 68k, NMOS Z80 and FC1004). Other variants possibly will be emulated in the future."
I would like to read more about why they target NMOS 68k and not CMOS 68k.

like does it matter and are there real changes we can see in games?

[oak jungle]

My totally uninformed guess would be “these are the decapped chips they had access to”

[graceful tulip]

i dont know much about megadrive hardware but i guess its not that hard to find one with a CMOS variant?

[knotty walrus]

My guess is because they wanted VA0

Hmmm

Wait no

Potentially it being a chipset made it easier?

[graceful tulip]

yes maybe that could be a reason. I just got a friend that asks and claims hes a bit underwhelmed that the Core is basically something that never existed in reality. So maybe it does not matter if its NMOS or CMOS for the core idk

[fallow dome]

I’d ping @warm falcon himself with your question

[pine crystal]

That would be my guess as well... decapped and fully documented, so those are the ones that were used.

[graceful tulip]

thanks ill ask nokey later

[warm falcon]

for 68000 and z80 I picked NMOS versions because high quality die pictures suitable for reverse-engineering were already available

as for custom chips (VDP, FM, bus arbiter/io/tmss), MD2 variants were easier to reverse-engineer compared to MD1 chips

[oak jungle]

Hah, I guess I was right lol

[fallow dome]

Thanks for your answer! @graceful tulip ^

[graceful tulip]

thanks for the Answer!

[pine crystal]

Thank you everyone for your answers!

[versed rapids]

During the intro of Gouketsuji Ichizoku, when we saw the face of the old woman after the intro text we have some kind black dots I don't have the real hardware to test

[glass shale]

Anyone can check this on real hardware? https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/10

[frigid tapir]

Has this been confirmed with Real Hardware yet? I can with my Japanese Model 1

[glass shale]

I don't think anyone checked that against OG hardware yet

[frigid tapir]

Does not happen in Real HW. I have seen on the Core James Bond has glitchy pixels around him. Not on my Real Japanese MD.

[glass shale]

@warm falcon do you know what that could be? 🤔

[glass shale]

What about this one, @frigid tapir ?

[frigid tapir]

I will have to "Obtain" that ROM 🙂

Real HW

The Core with corrupted graphics around Bond

[old sierra]

He certainly looks stirred rather than shaken

[frigid tapir]

Gouketsuji Ichizoku on Real HW

In Core

Where is the issue?

[glass shale]

@versed rapids

[frigid tapir]

Left Core, Right with the OSSC OSD is my Real Japanese MD

[versed rapids]

it is just after the face of the old woman disappear it happens time to times not every times

it is very brief

[glass shale]

Oh I think they are like screen transitions in Demons of Asteborg? Not sure if those happen in real hardware too, but it used to happen in the Genesis core.

[frigid tapir]

They look identical to me 🙂

[hasty void]

The transition is different

[frigid tapir]

Is it? It looks like it flashes white in virtually the same way on both?

[versed rapids]

when i tried to capture it on video with my phone or screenshot it is too quick ... so I can't show it like I see it ...
Yes i think it is transition

[hasty void]

The transition is more smooth on real hardware

[frigid tapir]

Slowed down to 0.25x and I still can't see a difference between the 2 of them?

Ok on the Real Hardware it stays on a White Screen for longer from my Frame by Frame Analysis.

Left Real HW, Right Core

[versed rapids]

maybe a scaler issue

thank you for the test against realhw

[frigid tapir]

Anytime 🙂

If I can help with the Core Accuracy (like I tried to do with the PSX Core), I am all for it. Mega Drive is one of my favourite consoles of all time.

[versed rapids]

can I use your video for opening an issue we will see if it is a scaler issue ?

[frigid tapir]

Yep 🙂 feel free too

[hard silo]

@frigid tapir do you have a neo geo?

[frigid tapir]

Regrettably I do not 😦

[hard silo]

Ah ok

[glass shale]

Genesis core is dead! Long live the Genesis core! https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Genesis_MiSTer

[hard silo]

Ouch

I get the point

The new core fixes many issues

[glass shale]

Yeah! It does make sense to focus energy on the new core

[pine crystal]

Time to update my names.txt file.

[fallow dome]

I saw this coming a mile away, already transitioned everything of mine to the new MegaDrive folder

[pine crystal]

Yep

[oak jungle]

Haha yeah people are out here making symlinks for the game dir, meanwhile I just renamed mine

Figured there wouldn’t be a compelling reason to go back

[pine crystal]

I never used the features that are 'missing' from the new core, so I had no trouble switching 100%.

[fallow dome]

What’s even missing that’s noteworthy?

[pale plover]

Turbo and sprite limit

[fallow dome]

Ohhh nice. Those are good QoL features.

[hard silo]

And adaptive composite

@earnest coyote please save us

[pine crystal]

I definitely didn't use that feature.

Too inconsistent with regards to what it applied the blending to.

[hard silo]

I used it 95% of the time

[fallow dome]

The only thing I’d personally like is savestates. But I’m not holding out any hope.

If it happens then great. if it doesn’t happen, also great.

[earnest coyote]

Sprite limit has pretty limited benefit and breaks Sonic 1's title screen a bit. I really only did that feature as a way to learn FPGA dev.

And it gave me an excuse to learn more about the VDP

[pine crystal]

Don't get me wrong. I really like the Composite Blend feature. I'm glad any feature is present, because I'm all about additional options for people who use and enjoy them. It's just that the Adaptive implementation wasn't for me. It's either all or nothing. View this full screen, and for Adaptive notice how the blending is not applied to the checkered pattern on the roof of the building or half of the mountain shadows on the ground. That's what I meant about being inconsistent.

[plain quiver]

The only futile option that I wish for would be the support for custom boot ROMs.

[oak jungle]

I found adaptive blend would eg. unnecessarily blend the text in some hud elements in some games, and then yeah it wouldn’t blend eg. the dithered light shafts in Streets of Rage, which seems like it would be the use case for that

[pine crystal]

Just load the Sega CD BIOS, and toggle between all 3 options. Adaptive does strange things to the large white text against the black background above and below the logo animation.

The only game where I couldn't find any noticeable negative side effects of Adaptive was Crusader of Centy. It seems to work perfectly as intended.

[oak jungle]

No knock on the feature though, it’s no doubt really hard to implement, and I’d love to see it implemented and perhaps even improved in the new core

[pine crystal]

Definitely. I appreciate the effort that went into it. That's why it's hard to be critical, out of fear of it being taken the wrong way. I don't think it's crap... I just wish it was better. Then I might actually use it. I think it's a very clever solution. 🙂

[limber pine]

Better get all the old features in then, pronto

I need my Turbo back

[pine crystal]

Rename the feature Blast Processing in the new core.

[limber pine]

Adaptive composite needs a major rework imo - like how one (presumably MIA) beta developer experimented with a more "Smart" blending that was quite promising:

#1096614378968727652 message

Otherwise I'll stick to using my Grundig Davio CRT + MikeS's Y/S-adapter for my composite blend-needs

[limber pine]

Funny thing, that's what build I found above does

[pine crystal]

I see that now. LOL

[limber pine]

Same thing happens with Sonic 1 where the waterfall effect blending works, but the shield stays same

[earnest coyote]

Which dev?

[limber pine]

None of an official ones, that is - some guy who called himself "kalachx"

https://github.com/kalachx/Genesis_MiSTer_FM_Overdrive

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=41511#p41511

Btw @carmine pine this is that guy's github

(The one who said people weren't ready for the source code yet)

[carmine pine]

that's not futile, just needs to support looking at boot1.rom which should be a fairly simple fix

[carmine pine]

yeah i thought that was pretty funny lol. it's one thing to say "i'm not ready to release it since it's not ready" etc... it's another to say "the world isn't ready for this source code" which is lol

[pine crystal]

"I want the code!"
"You can't handle the code!"

[carmine pine]

i feel like this could have been done with a generate statement --> https://github.com/kalachx/Genesis_MiSTer_FM_Overdrive/blob/bce904c4f6f79765bbf44de4dcbee1db2e7f0a1c/rtl/jt12/jt12_logsin_hd.v

hrm maybe not...

but taht is a massive LUT, definitely took some effort

[earnest coyote]

I hope that was generated hehe

[lofty steeple]

people, was there any information about savestates or is it impossible?

[carmine pine]

since the core wasn't made with savestates in mind then it will be harder to add savestates to it when compared to ones that are developed with that in mind. that's the generic (and true) response for pretty much every core that was not made from the ground up by Robert Peip (FPGAzumSpass) currently. the two cores that do have savestates that weren't designed for it took a lot more work to implement (and savestates were added ot them by Robert as well).

[lofty steeple]

understand, thanks for the reply

[pale plover]

So will the old core be pulled from the official core distribution script? Seems redundant to have both.

[carmine pine]

i don't believe archived repos get pulled by the update script

we have a few and they don't currently get pulled, i haven't tested since this got archived though

[night cape]

Is it possible to implement what the Mega Amp does to the genesis and Megadrive cores?

[carmine pine]

Technically it already kinda does that. The mega amp has the permanent options of a bypass (this is similar to the "no filter" option in the core). It also has clean audio since it's not "limited" by the physical hardware potentially introducing noise.

The sound might not be the same as a va0 or va2 like the target of the mega amp, but if someone wanted to they could probably make filters for that.

[warm falcon]

some DMA issue I think. I guess game tries to do DMA from ROM area and sdram is not fast enough, afaik games usually copy data to 68k RAM and do DMA from there, so they work fine
EDIT: nvm, a lot of other games this too, so new theory is z80 & vdp dma clash

[fallow dome]

@warm falcon congrats on being the official MegaDrive / Genesis core! Thanks for doing such a wonderful job converting it to FPGA.

[manic ridge]

would it be weird if I asked @warm falcon to marry me

[west sable]

Much as Jim Lahey is the liquor, nukeykt is the core

[fallow dome]

I want him to sign my update_all

[manic ridge]

Dammit there aren't any "sign my baby!" GIFs from the new TMNT movie yet lol

[cloud otter]

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExb3N0bmJyMDk2M2c1cDEyMTM5cWZ2M2IyeTByNGs4MnNxMmxudXNtbCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/J2DZtFDr5TLM9wesqe/giphy.gif

[manic ridge]

How?!

[cloud otter]

Hehe.

And I still have about 300 bucks in Amazon credit due to a motherboard return a couple years ago. :/ But yeah, I hate digital usually however I bought this the second it came out. I'll get the disk too. I really liked it.

[manic ridge]

I buy the codes in facebook group so I generally wait a little bit and they're cheap

[cloud otter]

That's smart.

[jagged sage]

While I am glad we have a new core, I definitely appreciate the work that went into the OG core and the countless hours of fun it provided.

[shell compass]

agreed. I would see it apply to odd things all the time that weren't dithered at all. would change the look of various background elements like cave walls in some games, and text would get screwy in other games.

[hard silo]

@frigid tapir Demons of asteborg on the new mega drive core has some graphical glitches on top of the screen during developer splash

Could you please check if this happens on real hardware?

[frigid tapir]

Yep will check this out later on for you

[frigid tapir]

ROM is too big for me to test (unless I am not getting the right one). It 14MB

[glass shale]

It's that big

[jagged sage]

Does the new core require a boot.rom? Update_All does not seem to pull one down. It did just however pull down a new one for the Genesis core and named it boot1.rom

[pine crystal]

That's the TMSS BIOS for copy protection that was added to the newer models. It is not required.

Without it, the TMSS option in the OSD is not selectable.

[jagged sage]

It downloaded it to the Genesis folder, not the MegaDrive. That’s what I thought was strange

My MegaDrive folder does not have a boot.rom or boot1.rom

[frigid tapir]

I have got one of the OG EverDrive's which can't flash ROMs bigger than a certain size.

Don't worry about TMSS 🙂

[manic ridge]

If you want physical it makes more sense to buy the pack, but for just digital the prices in the groups are much cheaper, so it's nice

[simple apex]

I'd probably buy more digital content if it wasn't drm'd to shit

[manic ridge]

I know right

[manic ridge]

I have the Everdrive Pro I can give it a try?

[simple apex]

this is a bad example because of what came to light a couple years later... but when louis ck released content for money but it was just regular ol files, no drm, I was pretty happy to pay the fee for it

[manic ridge]

Is he somehow uncanceled now

I see him doing specials

[simple apex]

yeah I haven't figured that one out yet

anyway, my point is please let me pay for content and own it

otherwise I will keep finding other means

[manic ridge]

I agree, I'd pay for ROMs if the price was reasonable and there was no DRM

[simple apex]

exactly

[light mist]

But how will nintwndo get that generational revenue then?

[simple apex]

someone should just tell nintendo that like 1% of people know wtf to do with roms and the other 99% of their install base will just continue to pay

I see enough issues with people who simultaneously know that both roms and emulators exist, but they can figure out how to mash to the two together to play games without help

you'll be fine nintendo, no need to leave any luck to heaven

[hard silo]

Ah yeah the OG might not support asteborg

I remember it working on my Mega everdrive x5

[fallow dome]

Where does that leave me. I know what to do with roms and I also continue to pay lol

[simple apex]

it means you a suka

boom gottem

[frigid tapir]

How is it on BlastEm (Demon's of Asteborg) as BlastEm is meant to be quite accurate?

[glass shale]

007 james bond game issue seems fixed from last changes from @warm falcon https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/10

Thank you @warm falcon ! ❤️

[frigid tapir]

Confirmed tested and looks good now 🙂

Does it also fix the issue @hard silo mentioned earlier?

[shell compass]

Just played through and recorded a Shinobi 3 video with the new core. Had one noticeable issue in the game, having to do with sync being lost/garbled on my consumer trinitron briefly as the first stage boss exploded

checked the video afterwards and it didnt effect hdmi output at all

sound seems to peak ~2db higher than the old core also, probably related to @tidal python 's findings before

[glass shale]

Isn't analog susceptible to garbled screens when screen is too white? I think I remember seeing this when I used to play on a CRT back then with a Wii.

[shell compass]

i played through shinobi 3 several times on the old core in the past week and had no such issues. first time playing through on the new core and that occurred

[sharp river]

I play shinobi 3 like once in a month or two (yeah, I love it). Never had any problem like this on mister or a real console. Going to play it on the new core to test 🙂

[shell compass]

just played it my first time this past month! its really fun!

[shell compass]

I loved exploring the environments for secrets. rewarding level design without being fatiguing

[glass shale]

Shinobi 3 is amazing!

@warm falcon do you have a Patreon? If you don't, please consider having one? 😄

[hard silo]

Let me try

[frigid tapir]

I could still see some glitching when I tried it but don't know if thats the same as before?

[glass shale]

Demons of Asteborg has some horizontal lines during screen transitions mainly. I got that with the old core too. It's probably the same with OG hardware

[frigid tapir]

Just wish I had a more capable EverDrive. I have had mine since about 2011

[shell compass]

Do y'all play Shinobi 3 with the 6 button code or stick with normal controls?
( @storm yew also)

One bit of advice I have if you go 6-button, is to not use the Game Genie/Raw code in the cheats menu. It's a broken implementation of the 6-button mode if you do, and Raw doesnt seem to work at all.

[oak jungle]

whoah, I didn't know that was a thing!

I only just played through for the first time not long ago though

definitely going to try again in that mode now

[manic ridge]

I only recently learned of it so 3 button I guess lol

[pale plover]

Shinobi III was always fickle with that six-button support. It was added at the last minute, which is why it's treated as a "cheat".

[old sierra]

Just wondering, do cheats work on the new core?

[shell compass]

the controllers werent available yet as far as I understand, so they didnt include it as an official option

i had no issues with it when using the proper code via the 2nd player controller. cheat mode implementation makes it not work correctly though

[shell compass]

i dont think so. its greyed out for me

maybe just waiting on a db update on the cheat website's side

prolly will work just by renaming the cheat zip file to MegaDrive? didnt try that

6 button mode with arcade stick was how I've been playing though. loved the flexibility

[pine crystal]

For what it's worth, I tried that a while back already. I renamed my Genesis cheats folder to MegaDrive, and the option is still disabled.

[shell compass]

In the video I posted today (timestamped: https://youtu.be/Lai78mOoeQI?si=ebpqZ6IpMWk7q2oa&t=1441), boss flickers black multiple times when he is forming. In my older video I used for test footage (timestamped: https://youtu.be/_2sNLAr7l5s?si=_p3rs8Oz-O0a0cGl&t=1495) there is just one brief flicker and it seems quicker/not as noticeable. Wonder how the original console looks here? Guessing like the nukeykt core.

Only other thing I noticed was a slight difference in balancing in the title/intro music, and the previously mentioned brief de-sync on CRT when defeating the Round 1 boss.

[glass shale]

@shell compass I think it’s worth it to open a github ticket for this issue!

[jagged sage]

Now all we need is a digital version of Paprium that works on MiSTer

[glass shale]

Soon™️

[jagged sage]

Has there been movement by the team to sell us one? I know they have been rather sticky about it in the past

[shell compass]

not without confirming original console behavior first

[cloud otter]

I have to clean up a megadrive anyway. I guess this gives me a reason to. I'll give it a go and see what I can see. Dunno how long it will take, but I'll try to get it as soon as I can.

[shell compass]

sweet, thanks! was pretty easy to spot on CRT while I was playing

[cloud otter]

OK, I'm up and running without a case while it dries. Hehe (it was in a house with a chain smoker for 30 years, so I had to scrub it).

Let's see if I can get to that boss.

[oak jungle]

scandalous

[cloud otter]

OK, real hardware the flicker was more noticeable than your second capture but less noticeable than the new capture. Like....right in between. But when it happened, it was the blackout flicker like in the new capture.

It happens 3 times in your new capture, but for me it only happened on the first piece every time. I burned up all my continues playing it over and over and it wasn't super consistent. But nothing was ever as egregious as your capture.

I don't have any means to capture off of the Genesis right now as I only have composite cables for it, sadly. I saved a state on my terraonion though, so I can repro it if I can get some cables I can injgest footage from.

OK, because I'm a moron and now realize I have save states, I was able to repro it just as in the new core. Same intensity and frequency, but it's not consistent. Sometimes it's worse, other times it's better.

If anyone else has real hardware with a TerraOnion and wants to try, here's the state right at the beginning of the fight.

Apologies as I forgot I had access to save states until AFTER I'd burned up most of my continues. I think there's one left.

[cloud otter]

I also just realized this Genesis has the EXT port that was never used in the US. Neat!

[hard silo]

@cloud otter maybe you can also verify demons of asteborg

#1096614378968727652 message

[cloud otter]

On it! I love that game! I haven't bought the new one yet, though. I should.

[cloud otter]

Yes, I see glitches. At the top and bottom of the screen (small white lines).

[hard silo]

On the developer splash screen?

[cloud otter]

Yeah.

[hard silo]

Great!

Thank you for verifying

[cloud otter]

NP

This is the Nuke core and yeah, identical to what I see on the 1601. I just want to double check that's what you're talking about.

[frigid tapir]

Yes that is what I saw.

When I test the Same ROM in BlastEm... my god it HATES it and goes crazy with graphical glitches.

So maybe there is something with that ROM which would do the same on a Real Mega Drive? Unfortunately I don't have an EverDrive that can handle a 14MB ROM file

[hard silo]

@warm falcon Did you see this?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/11

[warm falcon]

hard to tell, I don't have any means to capture video of nuked-md and real consoles to do frame by frame comparison. on my md1va0 it fades to black pretty much immediately

[hard silo]

Yeah true. in the core there is a slight delay

[frigid tapir]

I timed the 2 clips up so the transition starts at the same frame on both. I use an Early Model 1 Japanese Mega Drive in my setup.

I had to slow the clips down to 0.25x in VLC because it happens so quickly you can't tell. Others were saying "The Transition is smoother on Real HW"

[warm falcon]

mister probably has tearing because hdmi output and mega drive core are not perfectly synchronized

[hard silo]

Good point

[glass shale]

Wondering if the vsync_adjust setting in the MiSTer.ini file will make any difference there?

[shell compass]

great! thanks for checking

[worn lake]

I tried my physical DOA cart on a MultiMega and there are similar small lines above and below logo anim at times

[frigid tapir]

Awesome 🙂 Thanks @worn lake

[sharp river]

Just finished Shinobi 3. Not a single out of sync issue 🙂

Also noticed that the core have a SNAC port 3 option. This is for the EXT port?

[glass shale]

According to sorg, yes!

[hard silo]

New build with psg fix

#unstable-nightlies message

@tidal python could you please verify if you have time

[sharp river]

Cool!

[hard silo]

@fallow dome Sorg fixed your mgl issue

[tidal python]

I can verify this either tonight or tomorrow.

[fallow dome]

He is the best!!!!!

Also thank you for the update @hard silo, very nice of you.

[glass shale]

Someone checked the last unstable build sound and:

[pine crystal]

Much better.

[alpine compass]

PSG filtering still seems a bit strong at the high point.

[glass shale]

Wondering how that gets with the Minimal filtering preset 🤔

[hard silo]

Is the whistle in afterburner gone?

[glass shale]

Isn’t the dropping yellow line at the end an issue? Sorry, I don’t know how to read this (need to read up on MDFourier docs)

[glass shale]

I can’t hear that. Probably because of my tinnitus? 🤔

[carmine pine]

Human hearing is roughly 20hz to 20khz. Ideally you want them the same but if the drop off is after 20khz I doubt anyone could hear it. But yeah it probably could be fixed further if that curve is still what it looks like on the latest build.

[glass shale]

I think I can’t hear anything higher than 14Khz

[pine crystal]

That's starting to deviate and sharply drop off around 5,000-7,000 Hz though.

Granted, I have no idea how to fully read and interpret those graphs... so I'm not sure what's correct/incorrect.

[glass shale]

Sorg asked to change the volume and re-check. Maybe it's something more complex than that, like a filter that kicks in around 5-7Khz-ish?

[pine crystal]

Ah, wait... I now remember Sorg mentioning that he used a 8,000 Hz PSG pre-filter to try to address the Afterburner II issue. Maybe that's what that drop-off is.

[glass shale]

If that filtering is happining before whatever filtering the "Model 1" filter preset does, it could be that

He should probably get rid of that pre-filtering for the tests

[pine crystal]

Looks like the latest volume change is spot on.

[hard silo]

How do you even read that graph?

[glass shale]

Same question haha

How do you know that the volume is right?

[carmine pine]

it's a comparison between the two samples at the bottom middle

the differences are these lines

so if they were perfectly identical (impossible, since it's a recording from an analog system) it would be a perfect flat line in the center for all 3 colors

the yellow fall off is the quick workaround sorg did with the 8khz filter to get rid of the whistle in afterburner

[glass shale]

Thanks for the explanation @carmine pine ❤️

It makes sense and I see the difference in the volume now

[carmine pine]

you can see in this one that Noise and SPSG are slightly quieter than FM (when compared to real hardware) because 0dB is the 1:1. this was before

now the blue line is up more along the FM so the sound is balanced (at least compared to a MD1VA3 system)

[pine crystal]

Thank you very much for explaining that. 🙂

That helped!

I was mostly there, but now I'm all the way there. 🤣

[alpine compass]

It's technically still there, just less noticeable.

There is a constant background noise.

[carmine pine]

interesting, yeah it's before the filtering then like sorg is saying, hrm wonder why

[hard silo]

So the yellow line at the end should be flat?

[pine crystal]

Thinking it should trend upwards with the green line without the filtering.

[pale plover]

Man the Mega Drive is so anal with sound I swear.

[alpine compass]

Yes, it was on Genesis core.

[frigid tapir]

It does differ depending on which Motherboard Revision you have.

2 Model 1's can sound quite different.

Model 2 to me sounds really bad.

[alpine compass]

Correction, the background noise I'm hearing in Afterburner2 is not in the 20khz range, I know because I can't hear past like 16Khz or so. Just commenting on your github post.

It's totally clean on the archived Genesis core.

[hasty void]

Look at the bottom of the screen. There is Black block Line on the bottom during some frames.

[carmine pine]

the filter is from 8khz on up and gets more strong of a filter (limiting more volume) as the khz increases

[pine crystal]

That is a pretty steep roll-off.

[carmine pine]

it's a workaround to make it so you can't hear the afterburner whistling as bad, until the root cause is figured out

[pine crystal]

One heck of a sledgehammer approach for one game.

[glass shale]

🔨

[carmine pine]

you shouldn't really be able to hear it much

[carmine pine]

yeah listening to it my sensitive ears can hear it quite a bit just like @alpine compass says

but i'm like wearing audiophile headphones and turning it up a little louder than i usually would

not bad though now that it's filtered

[alpine compass]

It's definitely improved over the initial release.

[frigid tapir]

I have noticed another difference between the Core and Real Hardware albeit this one isn't going to set the world on fire.

Sonic 3 USA Version, Competition Mode, Time Attack, Azure Lake.

On the Core you get a flickering line (as you do on Real Hardware)... however the flicker behaves differently even though I am in the exact same spot with Sonic on both Devices.

The flickering happens underneath the little Item Box on the Core but this never happens on Real Hardware (at least with my Japanese Model 1 or Genesis Nomad consoles it doesn't).

[fallow dome]

Could be random chance of that happening on real hardware?

[frigid tapir]

Possibly so but odd that both my Japanese Model 1 and Nomad both didn't exhibit the line in that way? yes it flickers but it never appears in that position.

Again appreciate this is tiny details etc 🙂

[pine crystal]

Oh, I agree. It doesn't sound bad at all. Quite excellent, actually. But when it comes to FPGA, especially if you're going to put such an emphasis on using MDFourier to match the core audio with the original hardware audio, it should be as close to 1:1 throughout the entire frequency spectrum as much as possible as default. I'm a 'warts and all' kinda guy.

[frigid tapir]

I agree with the Mantra of MiSTer is Hardware Accuracy 🙂

[pine crystal]

But I do understand the move to pre-filter in an attempt to address a strange issue. I don't expect that to be permanent.

[fallow dome]

Unfortunately my MGL issue persists. Using set name in an MGL with the MegaDrive core doesn’t load the game. 😢

[glass shale]

Did you install main unstable?

[fallow dome]

No! Thanks for catching that.

[fallow dome]

Ah we’ll still didn’t work. That’s ok, I don’t think I’ll really be playing those 5 Sega Genesis light-gun games much lol.

[warm falcon]

seems happen on md1va0 🤔

[cloud otter]

Confirmed on my model 1 (NA) as well. The artifacts appear. (On my genesis they are distinct from the line flashing and are reddish, specifically under the box at that part of the level).

And prior to loading the course graphics, they're very apparent on the black background for a split second.

But appears under the little box after graphics load.

[glass shale]

Amazing!

[hard silo]

The core is in a very good shape

Audio needs adjustment

[west sable]

https://youtu.be/VdjkoHZU8CU?si=Yva2jN_KGQUkWFdS

[glass shale]

Who was the developer who fine tuned the old Genesis core audio back then?

We’re gonna have to put that person working together with Ace on that

[frigid tapir]

Fantastic, wonder why I was seeing the difference with my Nomad, Model 1 Japanese MD and the Core?

[cloud otter]

The common factor is NTSCJ right? Since the Nomad was a ....Jet something underneath? For Japanese planes?

Mega Jet

I remeber hearing that the JP1 console has jailbar issues on some NA tvs. This is all grasping at straws. Just throwing out possibilities.

[warm falcon]

md1va0 was japan only

first us model was md1va2

[frigid tapir]

I will have a look at my Japanese Motherboard to see what Revision I have.

[pine crystal]

https://consolemods.org/wiki/Genesis:Genesis_Model_Differences

If that helps...

[frigid tapir]

Wow mine is a VA5!

So I kept thinking it was an early model. Its not

[pale plover]

So I was playing Arcus Odyssey earlier, and I noticed that when the scenes transitioned during the intro, there would be junk graphics inbetween for like a frame. Sort of like what happened with Space Harrier II.

The rest of the game plays pretty flawlessly, but I wanted to double check to see if the junk graphics are a glitch with the core or not.

[cloud otter]

I can take a look today. I'll let you know. I really need to pick up a scart so I can capture off of the real hardware.

[hard silo]

This is 32x core. It hasn’t been updated

It did happen for me but I haven’t verified recently

[pale plover]

The Knuckles Chaotix issue still happens to me on the most recent core.

I just skip the intro cutscene, and it runs fine.

[pale plover]

I did some testing, and I think I found the root of the Arcus Odyssey issue. I think it's a bug related to resolution changes, as I noticed that it also occured in Battle Mania Daiginjou too.

I noticed the old core does that too, so maybe it's actually intentional? Don't know.

[cloud otter]

Which part of the intro?

I'm trying both real hardware and the core and I don't see any junk graphics.

[pale plover]

Maybe it was just a random memory bug on boot? Because I'm struggling to replicate the exact glitch I saw in the intro.

Maybe just a false flag then.

[cloud otter]

No worries.....it's awesome how fast this community is at testing and iterating!

[hard silo]

What vsync do you have?

[limber pine]

Making a quick check - is Sega CD-core working for folks atm?

[plain quiver]

Working normally.

[limber pine]

OK - somehow I can't get mine to work - keeps freezing for me during booting into the BIOS-menu

[plain quiver]

With the latest untable MiSTer build.
And the lastest core version.

Did you tried to redo your options on the core ? Reinstalling your BIOS files too ?

[limber pine]

I did the latter - I guess I have to try wiping the options

[fallow dome]

It's staying MegaDrive. I'll let @stone citrus know that the Genesis core has been officially deprecated and to move all SEGA MegaDrive functionality to work with the new core.

[pine crystal]

Still wondering why Cheats is still disabled even though I have them in the Cheats/MegaDrive/ folder. If it's listed as a menu option, I'm assuming they're supported.

[compact plover]

Does the Menacer light gun work on the MegaDrive core? Couldn’t get it to work on my build

[frigid tapir]

Possibly SNAC hasn't been implemented into the Core?

[compact plover]

Don’t know. Not using SNAC, but am testing the light gun via a DualSense via the analog stick. Yea I know I’m a heathen lol

Never mind. Got the light gun working

[compact plover]

Found an issue with the MegaDrive core. All peripherals seem to work fine except the 4-Way multitap doesn't recognize player 4's inputs. It does recognize player 4's inputs on the Genesis core. Gonna create a Github ticket

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/15

[alpine compass]

A user GHogan did the filter work.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Genesis_MiSTer/commit/17494f9263a3ed32097b6d1a5ed2131d3977dd61

[fallow dome]

If Crusader of Centy is so good then where’s the sequel?

[vital idol]

It came out at the end of the consoles lifespan. That is when sega decided that any game that was truly good on the genesis would get no more sequels.

[versed rapids]

A kind of sequel existed on Saturn named Linkle Liver Story

[fallow dome]

Yesssss!

[light mist]

I think you haven't learned anything from ragnacenty

[visual temple]

Some part of me can't help but feel like this is some kind of Engrish thing going on here

Are we sure it shouldn't be Wrinkle River Story or something?

[visual temple]

@magic harness

[versed rapids]

The game was released just on japanese and have a japanese title.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkle_Liver_Story

[visual temple]

I just don't see how Livers are relevant

okay so im not alone

[carmine pine]

The whistling in afterburner is happening before the filtering anyways, regarding filtering discussions. I think the change might even have to be traced down to ym7101.v possibly? Not too sure.

[compact plover]

Hey guys. Regarding the latest Mega Drive core update, ran into some issues. 4P support isn't working with some 4-Way games. For example, NBA Live 95, Coach K College Basketball and FIFA 95 don't respond to 4P's inputs but these inputs work on the Genesis core for these games. What's even more curious is that NBA Live 96-98 have 4P support working perfectly. Just want to see if anyone else is running into this issue using latest unstable

Btw this issue is only with the 4-Way adaptor. All other multitap games are working up to 5P (Team Player and J-Cart games)

Haven't tested all the multitap games, but these 3 are the ones I haven't gotten working

[carmine pine]

do you mean the latest unstable build that just came out a bit ago?

@glass shale @alpine compass how does this sound btw? let me know if it helps or makes it worse

[carmine pine]

also, are you using a real multi-tap with SNAC? if so, make sure you mention that to sorg in the issue you opened

[compact plover]

No. Using the multitap option in the core menu and plugging in 4 DualSense controllers

[carmine pine]

okay just checking 🙂

[compact plover]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/15

We're going back and forth in the comments. Is the RBF you posted the one that sorg just posted in unstables? That's the one I was trying

[carmine pine]

no

i'm messing with the psg

[compact plover]

Ok thanks. Let me try that

Unfortunately, the latest build doesn't work :/

If someone else can test this, just want to make sure I'm not insane lol. Just 3 games I know don't work are NBA Live 95, Coach K College Basketball and FIFA 95. Using 4 USB controllers with 4-Way option selected and player 4 isn't recognized

[carmine pine]

i don't have 4 of the same controller that is bluetooth unfortunately, i have 3 dual senses

but all of yours are usb, nvm hrmm

[frigid tapir]

So does it have to be all 4 USB? can I connect up 4 Bluetooth controllers?

Or can I use 1 USB and 3 Bluetooth?

[carmine pine]

@tidal python Can you do an MDFourier comparison with this test core for me por favor? My hdmi capture is being stupid and lame. Trying to see if it impacts output in any negative way, it was a somewhat impactful change but I can't hear any difference.

i think i'm getting old lol

also, in case anyone can't hear it, this is a hearing test for the frequency of the after burner II whine 😛 i can hear it still in isolation, but not when other stuff is going on. hearing warning, this probably isn't good to listen to at high volumes, hearing warning.

the whistle just sounds like old school tv interference, the two tallest peaks on the right are the frequencies where it's happening, the rest is probably junk noise from my hdmi capture being dumb today

[glass shale]

I barely can hear this. But I'm 43 and I do have tinnitus, so of course 😛

In order to hear it I have to use headphone and put the volume in the maximum

My 4 years old daughter yelled at me when I had this though the speakers (and I didn't hear shit lol)

[cloud otter]

I'm 46 and it instantly drove me nuts. But that's because my hearing is going out in the middle. Where it's actually useful 😦 Voices? Nah. Mosquito tone? Sure, why not!

[glass shale]

This thing is probably pretty close to the frequency of my tinnitus, this is why I almost can't hear it

[carmine pine]

lol yeah i can hear it when the game is too loud basically

[fallow dome]

@warm falcon do you have a Patreon we can link to?

[tidal python]

Seems like multiple frequencies well within the audible range:

[carmine pine]

below 80 db shouldn't be audible i thought

it's all relative anyways because i have to turn it up i guess

[tidal python]

After Burner II has low overall volume, don't forget.

[carmine pine]

yeah good point, so to turn it up loud enough to hear other stuff, these quieter probably unnoticed sounds are there

but going from game to game not messing with the volume i don't hear it in other games. maybe something is getting "stuck" in particular with after burner II, since i'm not hearing it anywhere else

[carmine pine]

I don't believe he has one, I looked around, nothing linked on twitter or github. The other contributors to the project who did decaps and tracing also don't seem to have patreons.

[fallow dome]

Thanks, I was going to ask that next. You are good people. 🍻

[frigid tapir]

So I am a complete n00b when it comes to FPGA development and what I am about to ask I am sure will sound stupid.

But, if the Core has been developed from Decapped Chips so a greater understanding of how the various Chips / Circuits work, why would there be an Audio related issue? Is it due to how you have to "Re-create" the logic that makes those chips work and any associated components (like Audio Amplification / filtering)?

[fallow dome]

If the question is from seeking knowledge, the only stupid thing is to not ask it. You’re in good company here, friend. 🍻

[frigid tapir]

Thanks Robby as this stuff fascinates me

[pine crystal]

I think Robby just called us stupid... 🤔

[frigid tapir]

I would love to learn how these Cores come together.

[fallow dome]

LMAO I didn’t mean to, omg I’m sorry. I meant to say there’s a ton of brilliant people here.

[livid spire]

Nah, I had the exact same thought but never asked. Figured I was missing something too obvious to ask. I'm glad you did!

[pine crystal]

No, no! Calm down! I was just joking. I didn't mean to...
Wait... you're trolling again. You did mean to do that! I knew it! 😏

[glass shale]

There’s always the possibility of failure (human or not) when converting netlists from decapped chip images into actual HDL code.

That’s what I understood from nukey when he explained what was missing that led the 007 game to have graphical issues

There was a transistor missing in that case 😅

[frigid tapir]

Ah so it can come down to Transistors / Resistors etc? Some code that relates to a particular function that might not be quite right (a value might be off) and thus you get the After Burner II issue?

[glass shale]

Yep. If you miss a single transistor, issues will likely show up haha

[compact plover]

My 4 DualSense controllers are USB for my testing

[alpine compass]

Background noise in Afterburner 2 is still there. No better or worse from what I can tell.

[carmine pine]

yeah

[alpine compass]

Yep that is basically what I'm hearing. It's only that game I hear it in.

[frigid tapir]

What has the Dev Nukey said they think it might be?

[glass shale]

My theory is that the chip is really outputting that noise. Real hardware is equipped with analog filters that could easily take care of that noise

[alpine compass]

Its definitely difficult to hear it when in the actual game, but man does it drive me crazy during the intro.

[glass shale]

I will put headphones and open the intro hahaha

[alpine compass]

You gotta crank it up because that game's volume is super low for some reason.

I mean its true to real hardware, so the actual volume isn't a core issue, just that noise.

[glass shale]

Is there a way to capture audio from real hardware bypassing the analog filters?

[carmine pine]

can you hear it on og hardware?

like go to the options screen where there is no sound and just turn it up

[glass shale]

Just to confirm the noise coming from the game/chip

[carmine pine]

the analog filters are being basically replicated already, in an even more extreme curve than real hardware

there is an 8.5khz lpf there

[alpine compass]

I'll check.

[alpine compass]

It's clean on real hardware.

No background noise.

[glass shale]

How to confirm there's no analog filter filtering out the noise?

[glass shale]

Yeah, I can hear the whine with headphones at a higher volume

It happens since the sega logo

Can’t hear it with the old core

[brittle geyser]

it could depend on on which hardware. there are lots of megadrive hardware variants

also re: afterburner high pitch, I found this very useful link that could be related: it says ```
After Burner II uses LVD to even out the volume mixing, which was fixed in the YM3438. Certain songs have instruments that become inaudible or too quiet on a YM3438, with Red Out using a high pitched sound that gets muted.

[glass shale]

I hear it even when changing to the YM3438

But it looks like a great clue! Thanks @brittle geyser

[brittle geyser]

The main thing is that there's a high pitch sound that's reproducible and recorded on the new core but not on the old one so worth looking into even if just for a QOL fix if not for harware accuracy.

[pine crystal]

Great post. Wow... and I thought I had it bad with the C64 and differences in 6581 SID chips.

[brittle geyser]

yeah C64 sid chips are a whole different ballgame with FPGA devices (like the Ultimate64) even having slots for plugging in real hardware SID chips due to analog quality differences between chips..I'm not sure those sound chips can ever be accurately recreated in FPGA devices..I've often wondered if Megadrive is in the same boat

[pale plover]

Oh no, Mega Drive will never sound correct because what is "correct" is subjective. That's why there is the constant debates over whether the model 1 or model 2 sounds better. There's no clear answer to what sounds "correct" to you.

[fallow dome]

Model 1 came out first, wouldn’t that be correct?

[oak jungle]

wasn't there a game where the music totally breaks depending on what revision hardware you play?

or did I dream that?

[brittle geyser]

yeah, Model 1 hardware configurations:

• VA0-VA2 - Loud games suffer a little when they get loud. All models are prone to background mains hum with stock AC Adaptor. Uses YM2612.
• VA3-VA6.8 - Different lowpass, loud games no longer suffer. The most common model 1 audio circuit and probably the best model 1 stock circuit. Some models are prone to mains hums with stock AC Adaptor and others are kind of prone to picking up video sync noise (around 15 KHz). Uses YM2612.
• VA7 - Bad stock sound circuit. Uses ASIC YM3438.
  Some of that was fixed with some Megadrive Model 2s but even for those there were different configurations depending on which Megadrive model 2 you have

[brittle geyser]

yeah a few games where the timing and pitch breaks almost completely. According to the link I posted above "Hellfire and Earthworm Jim have a strange bug from system to system that alters their note timings and tempo. The chip responsible isn't what caused it: rather it's the system itself? It's strange."

[fallow dome]

Wow you’re kidding, even within the Model 1 there were variations?

[brittle geyser]

yeah according to this: https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/genesis-mega-drive-sound-chip-comparisons.41312/#post-1023753

[pale plover]

Oh you don't even want to get into the rabbit hole that is Mega Drive revisions. There's a lot

[fallow dome]

Thanks, I had no idea! I’ll just keep my mouth shut and let the adults do the talking lolol.

[brittle geyser]

lol I don't think you'll find any of those here..we're all here to embrace our inner gaming child

[brittle geyser]

besides, someone great once said " If the question is from seeking knowledge, the only stupid thing is to not ask it. You’re in good company here, friend." 😉

[oak jungle]

thanks, Hellfire was the one I was thinking of

it was like, one of the Toaplan shooters lol, which doesn't narrow it down at all on Mega Drive...

[fallow dome]

lmao you used it against me!

this is why fans are the best

[carmine pine]

I had a model 2 when I was young 😏 but I prefer md1va3 or md1va6 typically.

[alpine compass]

Model 1 with the YM2612 chip. It's either a VA6 or VA6.8. I can't remember.

[alpine compass]

Do you notice any differences between VA3 and VA6?

[carmine pine]

Not much to my ears from what I can remember. It's 2 of the 4 systems I have now. You can use MDfourier on the samples provided on the website to see how they are different.

If you listen to the langrisser 2, story of Thor (aka Beyond Oasis), or shining force 2 soundtracks from the 16-bit audiophile project you'll hear how it sounds.

Those were my only contributions there.

It's like punchy and clean but not as ear bleedingly crazy as the earlier models

[versed rapids]

Hi @frigid tapir is it possible to redo your capture for this ticket ?
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/11#issuecomment-1712605285

thanks !!

[cloud otter]

Off topic, but I love your github image....adorable little dinosaur you have there!

[frigid tapir]

When you say redo? 🙂 what would you like me to do?

Happy to do it as my setup is all rigged up to a switcher with the Capture Device attached to that.

[versed rapids]

It is linked to the comment of @carmine pine to test if the behavior is the same with the last unstable version of the core

[frigid tapir]

Sure so you want me to capture that same intro sequence with the latest Core release?

[versed rapids]

yes !

[frigid tapir]

Ok what is the latest as I have lost track? 🙂

[versed rapids]

#unstable-nightlies message

last unstable !

thank you ^^

[frigid tapir]

side by side comparison again?

[versed rapids]

yes please

[frigid tapir]

On it now

wow!!! this looks pretty much spot on now!

Check this out 🙂

Left Real HW, Right Core.

[versed rapids]

so we can close the issue 🙂

thank you !!!

[frigid tapir]

I will say yes as to my eyes it looks pretty much the same 🙂

Where before you could see a clear difference.

[versed rapids]

Great !

[plain quiver]

The sole frame I've seen with a difference in the video.

[frigid tapir]

What would the cause of that be?

[versed rapids]

it is the issue I spot at the begining but difficult to get

it is not happen all the time

[harsh iron]

Ill test in real megadora later

And let's see if there is something wrong wit gouketuji ichizoku.

[manic ridge]

Was supposed to be in response to him calling us stupid but Discord killed the reply lol

[glass shale]

It’s always in context anyways 🤣

[manic ridge]

I was thinking the same lol

[harsh iron]

I dont see anomalies in gouketsuji

But an interesting thing

No CRAM dots

And real system has cram dots

Real sys. I put in 16:9 for see the cram dots

Mister

[frigid tapir]

I get CRAM Dots at the SEGA Screen in the Core, but they don't appear after that.

[glass shale]

Maybe CRAM dots behave differently between console revisions?

[frigid tapir]

Quite possibly.

[old sierra]

Saw this linked on the Gaming Alexandria discord, might be of interest to some people here. I imagine none run as they have special mappers

https://www.smspower.org/forums/19789-KoreanSMSMulticartsGalore3

[edgy ruin]

Real hardware seems to be running at 50Hz (larger visible top/bottomborder on CRT TV) while Mister core looks to be running in 60Hz mode.

[frigid tapir]

Thats the one. Putting the Core into EU Mode shows the CRAM dots beyond the SEGA Screen 🙂

[edgy ruin]

CRAM dots related to palette changes during vblank will be more visible in 50 Hz mode due to more visible borders

[frigid tapir]

Which is why most of us in PAL Land are very familiar with them.

[pine crystal]

New EEPROM-enabled build ready. 🥳

[glass shale]

Hopefully it doesn’t screw my Pier Solar save!

I’m at level 15 already

[versed rapids]

by default cram dots are set to Off. I have cram dots on my side

[frigid tapir]

I have CRAM Dots and Border on for the extra authenticity 🙂

[harsh iron]

I think I have these activated

Later will take a look

[frigid tapir]

GOEMON, is your Real HW PAL rather than NTSC?

[mint ruin]

Can somebody also check a little bug (or not) I found. In Ristar when I enable CRAM dots there are some flickering pixels on the water surface if you just watch attract mode on the second level where he swims underwater. They disappear when this option is off.

[frigid tapir]

Let me just fire up my Real Mega Drive as that looks familiar.

Happens on Real HW too

I will show you a picture

Taken from my VA5 Japanese MegaDrive. Not a bug with the Core,

[mint ruin]

Ok thank you! Very Interesting

[frigid tapir]

Yep so some weird bug with the game.

[manic ridge]

We should tell the devs

[carmine pine]

they aren't supported yet in genesis plus gx either afaik

[carmine pine]

how do the SMS video modes in the Megadrive core look to you on PAL by comparison? just curious

[carmine pine]

well this attempt was fun, still learning how this filtering works. it gets rid of the whistling for the most part, but the dropoff is so steep that now SMS sounds kinda bad... however, how did SMS sound on a real genesis with a power base converter anyways? was it muffled on the high end or was it ear bleedingly high pitched like the original sms console? i don't know the answer to that. i brought back the 16khz iir filter sorg had at the original commit and then switched the cegen's outclk to use the same clock as the z80 (which is 1/15'th the speed of the master clock which is used as the input). it made the after burner II whistling sound very hard to hear, so it's an improvement. there is now a little imbalance, but that can be adjusted later. i gotta go to bed, didn't realize what time it was lol.

anyways I do think that the filter should use the clock enable that is based on what the clock input speed was for the real genesis. i looked at the filtering in the tgfx16 core and the psg filter is done this way, it's using a ce from a divider of the master clock.

i'll mess with it more later if i remember... but it looks like that last pole hits too hard and don't really know how to mess with the values to fix it

just to emphasize how much this stuff varied from model to model, this is og hardware, md1ujva7 vs md1utva3

that being said the md1va7 is usually not great

[narrow panther]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYz_lFYJbV0
This looks good!

[dark notch]

Will SegaCD, 32x, and SMS be merged with the new megadrive core? I just learned that the genesis core has been deprecated

[pale plover]

SEGA Master System backwards compatibility on a Mega Drive is more spotty than the original console, so there is still value in having the Master System/Game Gear core.

SEGA CD and SEGA 32X will likely stay separate, due to limitations with the FPGA. That's also why there hasn't been a core with both the SEGA CD and 32X in it for the few games that required both.

[pine crystal]

I'm guessing the SMS compatibility with the new Mega Drive core should (closely) mirror the compatibility rate with real hardware using a Power Base Converter?

[pale plover]

Yes that is the idea, the issue is that not every Master System game works right on a Mega Drive.

https://segaretro.org/Power_Base_Converter#Incompatible_games

[nocturne glacier]

So is the new games folder going to permanently be Mega Drive? I was waiting to move things until it was decided.

[pine crystal]

Yeah. Rename the Games/Genesis folder to Games/MegaDrive and you're good to go.

[dark notch]

Understood. But will the megadrive portion of the segacd core be updated to the latest decapped core?

[pine crystal]

Not sure. Hope so.

[pale plover]

If they want to improve the SEGA CD core, it would also require decapping and reverse engineering the SEGA CD itself.

The SEGA CD was not just a disc drive like the TurboGrafx-16 CD, it had extra processors in it that allowed for stuff like more sound channels and more complex sprite scaling not possible on a stock Mega Drive.

Same deal with the SEGA 32X.

[carmine pine]

This is unlikely for now as the Megadrive core is substantially larger and has more timing issues as a result of it being essentially a netlist. It's a more accurate model by far though, so hopefully it could be used one day, if not at least for the bus arbiter.

[limber pine]

I've ended doing the mgl-file route for now until the directory name changes get to take place from Remote + Search-scripts

[limber pine]

Latest unstable MD-build crashes for me upon booting - earlier one works

[versed rapids]

Same the build is not good I think I will try to compile it

[versed rapids]

Information of the compilation / The build is ok and no crash

Fitter Status : Successful - Mon Sep 11 18:46:20 2023
Quartus Prime Version : 17.0.2 Build 602 07/19/2017 SJ Lite Edition
Revision Name : MegaDrive
Top-level Entity Name : sys_top
Family : Cyclone V
Device : 5CSEBA6U23I7
Timing Models : Final
Logic utilization (in ALMs) : 34,040 / 41,910 ( 81 % )
Total registers : 51759
Total pins : 145 / 314 ( 46 % )
Total virtual pins : 0
Total block memory bits : 2,891,298 / 5,662,720 ( 51 % )
Total RAM Blocks : 438 / 553 ( 79 % )
Total DSP Blocks : 56 / 112 ( 50 % )
Total HSSI RX PCSs : 0
Total HSSI PMA RX Deserializers : 0
Total HSSI TX PCSs : 0
Total HSSI PMA TX Serializers : 0
Total PLLs : 3 / 6 ( 50 % )
Total DLLs : 0 / 4 ( 0 % )

[plain quiver]

Thank you @versed rapids

[glass shale]

Oh, so is the latest unstable from #unstable-nightlies broken?

[pine crystal]

Seems that way. It didn't work for me either.

[glass shale]

@fallow dome could you please remove the latest unstable MegaDrive core compilation from #unstable-nightlies ?

@novel compass any clues on why it was corrupted?

[novel compass]

Here are the logs: https://github.com/MiSTer-unstable-nightlies/MegaDrive_MiSTer/actions/runs/6147596578/job/16679440467

[glass shale]

I don't see any errors

[pine crystal]

Very interesting...

[fallow dome]

Following-up, is this definitely corrupted and this is the link to remove?

#unstable-nightlies message

[pine crystal]

Yep, that's the one. The latest MegaDrive unstable.

It's not working for several people so far... for some reason.

[fallow dome]

Is it working for some users?

[pine crystal]

Not sure. No one complains with things work right. 😉

[fallow dome]

LOL true

I would test but I’m at the office. Would be great if we could get someone to verify if it’s functioning for them.

[pine crystal]

Agreed

Thinking something happened during the automated build process, even though the logs say everything is okay.

wark and I compiled our own, and those are working for us.

[fallow dome]

Fascinating

[shell compass]

ill check it in a minute

[fallow dome]

Kitrinx added a comment which I think is the best course of action.

[pine crystal]

Nah. Delete the build and her comment! 😏

[shell compass]

@visual temple confirmed the build is broken. core doesnt even load to OSD and completely locks up MiSTer for me requiring a full power cycle to restore function

never seen that happen before lol

[pine crystal]

Yeah, that's really strange.

[visual temple]

Hmm ok

[fallow dome]

Wild!

[visual temple]

I removed it and left a note as a placeholder to avoid confusion

[limber pine]

and guessing, kind of WOODY

[carmine pine]

output [23:0] md_addr he's not using this new output from cartridge.sv yet in the emu module. looks like it's a work in progress

[carmine pine]

if you delete any boot.rom files does it work?

[shell compass]

i didnt try that & wont be able to for a while today

[carmine pine]

no problem

if it's doing it for everyone completley then it might be something else, but if it works for some people and not others, i'm willing to be that's what it is

i'm compling a test where i cahnge the assign for md_addr back to a wire and comment out the output since it's unused anyways, that might fix it, and i'll just let sorg know since maybe it's a WiP thing anyways

also he added sdram ports to the emu module's instantiation of the cartridge module, but didn't add equivalent ports to the cartridge module. it's almost certainly work in progress then. this is the root cause, nvm.

[alpine compass]

Can you make a build without the filter being applied to the PSG, or would that require too much work?

I know you can switch unfiltered in the menu, but then that removes all the filtering.

[carmine pine]

without the filter it just makes it extremely loud whistling

and Phantasy Star SMS's ringing artifact in the intro comes back

before any filtering the PSG is oscillating out of sync with the mister audio out module it seems. you can hear how it would sound basically if you just select "no filter" in the options for what model system

nukey said after burner ii does 223khz rate audio samples on the psg, and i think he described that this is being resampled down to 48khz which is causing the ringing. the filtering just makes it less apparent before it gets to the audio out module

[dark notch]

Are we losing virtua racing support due to old core being deprecated?

[simple apex]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer

[dark notch]

Nice

[carmine pine]

The only things missing are a couple minor features.

[limber pine]

Still waiting for Turbo/"Blast Processing"

Wonder will Adaptative Blend be explored again by anyone

[manic ridge]

I hope so

[torn dome]

imagine the Sega Saturn with adaptive blending 😩

[limber pine]

Maybe it'd have dithering like PSX -core but yeah

🥺

[pine crystal]

Ugh...

[carmine pine]

this is not likely to happen

the core uses a clock that is twice as fast as the genesis core because the design is different

[old sierra]

What is left to be added for parity? Cheats
Composite blend
Mike's S-Video/composite stuff
Obscure mappers
?

[limber pine]

Huuuh - guess I'll keep the old one around for certain games (bummer though turbo's possibly out of question)

[limber pine]

You can copy-paste the parameters yc.txt file from Genesis as "MegaDrive" for same results regarding S-video/Composite:

#1096614378968727652 message

I'm guessing a later revision to yc.txt will change the name of the core to transition on the current one

[mint ruin]

ANd how about sprite per line limit

[limber pine]

On Adaptive Blend though, I hope it gets reworked to apply for more complex/moving checkerboard patterns - the one we had in deprecated core seemed to work simpler checkerboards and vertical lines mainly

Bummer still about that one guy who happened to have a more improved version on adaptive blending in his FM Overdrive-centric fork of Genesis-core but didn't fully release it or share the source code

BTW haven't ever shared that core here before for others to try - though in links I posted long prior you could get them there:

[pine crystal]

Cheats are working on the new core. I was a dummy when I checked earlier, and didn't have a game loaded yet. That's why the option was disabled. 😄

Composite Blend is there, too... but no Adaptive.

[old sierra]

Oh nice, not much missing at all then

[carmine pine]

he did release the source code later

https://github.com/kalachx/Genesis_MiSTer_FM_Overdrive/commit/bce904c4f6f79765bbf44de4dcbee1db2e7f0a1c

[limber pine]

Huh, guess I missed that

[carmine pine]

or this might only be the overdrive, not sure if it has the adaptive blending alternative lemme read the code real quick...

ah he just did an alternative color lut, that's the only graphic differences there, and he disabled medium turbo in the core

for some reason added a chinese region switch in the osd but it doesn't do anything

and then the ultra-turbo-overdrive-fm-to-the-max thing he did or whatever 😛

i wouldn't call it a sound quality fix like he said ti was, it's very different sound than the original system and if there is a game with loud FM sound it would have too much distortion

[fallow dome]

I figured out a fix to the adaptive dithering, use yer filters!

[carmine pine]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Genesis_MiSTer/commit/a117f53ceb82f57916434bb49f5e0b384a77e7dc So the way to turbo was added can be seen here. Sorg had to basically double the video clock (which was generated from a divider of the main clock). The current core's double speed clock could probably be used for this and the same divider used, just double the numbers, but I think the problem is that these clock divisions are not handled at the top level anymore, they are probably handled in nukey's core which is made to be an accurate model and sorg won't be touching his code in there to do any workarounds. It would be up to him if he wanted to add that kind of feature to the primary source.

the other issue is that the biggest timing issues happen from the vdp <-> something else each time i compile it at least, so I would assume that adding turbo would just make it even less stable and more difficult

[limber pine]

If you're talking about the old Composite Blend-ones from years ago,they don't seem to work the way they're intended to?

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=3345#p3345

[pine crystal]

They may have been like that at one time, but the way composite blend works now, anything with a small enough checkerboard pattern like that is smoothed out, averaging the two colors nicely.

[carmine pine]

the polyphase filters and shadowmasks won't take the place of what genesis core's adaptive blending did

but personally it had a lot of instances where it created buggy graphics, so i never used it much

[pine crystal]

I completely understand the desire for an adaptive blending mode like that... pseudo-transparency effects only where desired without any of the blurry drawbacks on the rest of the image. It just looks very un-CRT-like to me. It was either all or nothing. Composite blended them, of course, but RGB A/V cable to my Commodore 1084 monitor back then showed the checkerboard patterns as well.

[carmine pine]

the way it the adaptive blending has to be done in FPGA won't likely be able compete with software emulators' equivalent of it btw. software emulators that do the equivalent have a framebuffer and can run over the frames multipel times and use complex code to handle it

[glass shale]

Adaptive blending wasn’t consistent, so removing it or not implementing it should be considered a bugfix! 😌

Me runs 💨

[carmine pine]

hehe

the code to add it require a rewrite of some portions of the VDP in order to work, so it probably won't be coming to this core

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Genesis_MiSTer/commit/1ffbda5b76ac138b3ce668ff678aec51bd2a0b8e

[pine crystal]

I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented 'properly'. I'd consider using it then. Again, not trying to crap on the accomplishments of anyone who was responsible for or contributed to that code. It's more than I did. 😉

I still think it's a clever idea. Just wish it worked more consistently.

[simple apex]

just slap composite blend to on and after a while genesis just looks wrong when it's not blurry af

[carmine pine]

or leave it off and get used to it, like i did haha

all the dithering, all the way

[pine crystal]

True. After playing with it enabled for a couple of minutes, it just kinda starts to look... correct. 🤣

Brings back memories of playing via composite on my 27" Trinitrons for years.

[fickle hemlock]

something about the fullscreen composite blend option in the genesis core really just nails the look

[pine crystal]

That ended up being my last non-S-Video holdout console.

[fickle hemlock]

is it half-chroma resolution but full luma or something? i can never get filters to look the same

[pine crystal]

I think it's doing some color interpolation on adjacent horizontal pixels.

Could be wrong, but it's what it looks like to me.

[fickle hemlock]

its like instant nostalgia when i turn it on heh

only the dumb fullscreen one though, i don't actually care for the adaptive modes

[pine crystal]

I really like the color palette enhancing characteristics of it. By taking areas where only two colors exist, and interpolating/color blending, you end up with an additional color that wasn't there previously... like the light and dark brown areas of the plateaus. Now there is a medium brown as well. Or the white checkerboard pattern on the building. There is now a lighter shade of gray that wasn't there previously. Or the grass... etc...

[pale plover]

I remember Cosmic Fantasy on the PC Engine did a similar trick with the composite blending. The first area in the space ship had these stripped patterns that would blend together into a new shade of brown when the picture was blurred.

[pine crystal]

It's a very clever trick of the trade they came up with to get the most out of what they had to work with at the time. I can't help but admire and respect that.

[pale plover]

https://twitter.com/ColumbusCircleC/status/1701778283547988037?s=19

コロンバスサークル公式 (@ColumbusCircleC)

【新作発表🐉】
『(MD/MD互換機用)焔龍聖拳シャオメイ』
⇒【2023年12月中旬】新発売🎉✨

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👇詳しくはこちら、
https://t.co/oP8BAJaNOa

Likes

146

Twitter · Sep 13, 2023, 2:02 AM

Cool a new Mega Drive release is coming soon.

[west sable]

Looks like a Spartan X clone..yes it does

[split moth]

Ahh interesting I didn’t know that. I guess not having a turbo/overclock option on the new core kind of stinks since we know that it can really help some games a lot (ex: Sonic Spinball)

[odd turret]

Looks great

[carmine pine]

i'm willing to bet that rom hackers could achieve the same effect with this game

the turbo mode actually led to a good chunk of false positive bug reports with the core that were annoying

[split moth]

oh for sure, that makes sense

I will probably keep the old core on my sd card just in case I ever want to go back and try a game with Turbo

hell, maybe I’ll just leave turbo on by default for the deprecated core

[finite quarry]

Since games of the era were developed using composite monitors (maybe with some rare exceptions where more expensive PC hardware was employed) it's very easy to assume (probably correctly) that the graphics were designed with composite blending in mind, perhaps not even intentionally but just as a characteristic of how the hardware worked back then. Having written retro graphics edit tools for 8-bit, I found a significant difference in quality when the editor itself used NTSC emulation to show simulated graphics rather than "pure" RGB-style graphics with crispy pixels.

As we said back then, NTSC = Never the same color. 😉 The color fringing side-effects you get are exploitable to get all kinds of pseudo-color possibilities beyond the official "palette". Some exceptionally clever examples of this are the 8088 MPH and Area 5150 demos. 😄

[frigid tapir]

But Turbo is not true to real hardware. Its more of a "Hack" to feed a different Clock Speed to the CPU.

I am aware with Real Hardware you can overclock the CPU with an Oscillator, I did it with a 10MHZ and 12MHZ crystal with a switch to select from 7, 10 and 12 MHZ which is great but that did cause issues in some games.

[pine crystal]

Yeah. It kinda goes against what this newer core is attempting to achieve (or seems to): 'perfect' accuracy. It wouldn't bother me if it never gets added back.

[stone citrus]

It was a cool feature. Shame to see it go

[versed rapids]

Maybe someone will make an unofficial port like Neogeo with Turbo mode

[fickle hemlock]

the genesis core isn't just clocking up the cpu iirc it does a few different things

[fallow dome]

Genesis core removed from the official distribution yet?

I appreciated the Genesis cheat menu update to MegaDrive

[frigid tapir]

But if you were to keep it to what you do with Real Hardware with an Overclock, all you are doing is changing the Clock Frequency from 7mhz to 10mhz or higher.

[fallow dome]

If we clock the MegaDrive core any higher might as well call it the Neo Geo core

[light mist]

But colours and sound!

Got to have megacd and call it module powered neogeocd

Though that would only enable sound and scaling..

[split moth]

It’s true, but it was neat to have

[pine crystal]

I believe so, yes. The repo was archived a little while ago, so I guess that's what it means.

[fallow dome]

@novel compass hey dude, sorry to bug ya but do you know if the plan is to eventually remove the Genesis core from official distribution?

[carmine pine]

Not all. Especially Genesis. It depends on the company. Many games were not developed on the Genesis, they were developed on a separate dev system which often would hook up to professional video monitors or even just computer monitors via VGA.

[carmine pine]

That's the plan yeah. Once a repo is archived the intent is to remove it from that distribution.

[novel compass]

Sorg will remove it from the wiki once he finishes the new one.

The distribution gets what stays in the list in the wiki

[pale plover]

Any word if the changes to the Mega Drive core will be promoted to the latest official build soon?

[carmine pine]

In order to do this they would have to modify the netlist style code of nukeykt's core. Unlikely someone will be able to do this anytime soon.

[carmine pine]

Be patient. Sorg is working on it. 🙂

[pale plover]

Okay. I can still wait since I can just use the unstable builds for now.

[carmine pine]

Yepper

[fallow dome]

@carmine pine / @novel compass thank you for answering my question 🥳

[pine crystal]

Hey, I answered too, and all I got was a beer...
🤔
I'll take it.

[carmine pine]

Take another beer on the house

[versed rapids]

so lot of works ...

[pine crystal]

These mods are awesome. Get the users drunk to pacify them.

[versed rapids]

@carmine pine do you think there is enough space on the de10nano to use the new implementation of MegaDrive core for MegaCD Core ?

[frigid tapir]

Someone would need to do the Decap process on the MegaCD Chips I would imagine. Then some kind of interconnect between that and the Mega Drive chips.

[fallow dome]

sorry, thank you as well

[bold basin]

Is it possible to run MD+ patched games?

[west sable]

I think the best way to sum that up would be "No, and probably not ever." for reasons I won't get into here ||(this is much larger than me, Im just saying dont get your hopes up)||

[carmine pine]

highly doubtful without significant modification, taking things out.

the original genesis core is a little over 51% logic utilization, the current megadrive core is 81%

[versed rapids]

yes I saw it when I compiled it for the last update so my concern

[carmine pine]

the netlist style of heavily structural code forces the compiler to not create it's own simplified logic from inference, BUT it's a good thing because you don't get a bunch of undefined behavior randomly (which you can write behavioral code to account for this and keep it from being a problem, it's just two different coding styles). The style of the megadrive core is to basically represent the physical structure of the logic on the actual chip, versus defining what the chip does. it also has ALL of the behavior of these chips as a result, instead of only the minimum known needed to make the system work. the problem with the latter (behavioral and more emulation-y) is all of the weird undocumented side stuff that crops up is hard to figure out over time.

the benefit of the behavioral style is you can read it like code and modify it a lot more easily if needed, and the compiler can be more efficient at synthesizing it to fit and achieve timing, generally speaking. this isn't at all a criticism of the structural style, they each have benefits.

[versed rapids]

thanks for the explanation !

[west hare]

Speaking of enhanced audio, anyone play the MSU version of fireshark? I was trying out a bunch of games and (after renaming the rom) was able to play them all and indeed notice enhanced music, but for Fireshark i just heard the Sega voice (which normally indicated the patching was succesfull) and then to me it sounds exactly like the stock music?

[carmine pine]

is that an msu-md patch?

[dry spindle]

It's an arcade soundtrack, as far as I can remember. That and the original Mega Drive version are similar sounding

Arcade: https://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/fire-shark-toaplan-1
Mega Drive: https://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/fire-shark-mega-drive-genesis

[west sable]

Generally speaking the Genesis versions of Toaplan soundtracks are better than their arcade counterparts

See Fire Shark, Hellfire, Truxton, Zero Wing, etc

[west hare]

Ok! Zero wing at least was noticeable, on short first impression i feel i prefer msu. But so far castle of illusion and SOR2, were my faves. Although sor2 vanilla is also great!

[west sable]

Arranged sountracks tend to be kind of scarce for a lot of the MSU-1/MSU-MD/MD+ hacks, so you'll often just get a arcade OST or something else available.

Zero Wing has an MSU-MD with the PC Engine CD AST, if that's of interest.

My archive.org has some personally curated (and volume balanced/region patched) MSU-MD hacks ready for MiSTer with the roms renamed to cart.rom if you are looking for suggestions (link in my discord profile)

[west hare]

And truxton msu has the advantage of the correct speed. I tried a (non msu)romhack to correct that, but that one felt off.

[west sable]

I still need to volume rebalance the Sonic 2 MSU-MD with the Sonic 2 HD tracks, but the rest are up there

[west hare]

Yeah i did saw that, on my to check list 🙂 but thanks for sharing and pre patching and renaming!

[west sable]

my favorites are MUSHA, Monster World 4, and TMNT

[west hare]

Yeah musha was def good altho…not the biggest compile fan :S mw4 haven’t tried msu yet and turtles i may try but generally i (dare i say it here?) on team turtles in time. Still cool to try at least.

[west sable]

I volume adjusted Sonic 2 MSU-MD and uploaded it to my archive

[tidal python]

Is there an MSU-MD release of Sonic 3 & Knuckles yet?

[west sable]

There is not no. Did you have a good arranged sountrack?

[tidal python]

I tried to make one with the Roland SC-88Pro. 😉

[west sable]

Oh, from the PC port midi files?

[tidal python]

Heavily edited to take advantage of the SC-88Pro, yes (the MIDIs were made for the base SC-88 and are... honestly pretty lame even on the proper hardware).

I can DM a sample to you if you want to have a listen (you might have to wait a bit as I'm in the middle of updating games for my gaming PC using my workstation PC as the gaming PC needs a new install of Windows 11).

[west sable]

You might be able to mod the midi ost into Sonic Origins Plus or another port, if it uses streaming music. i havent looked into that too much just yet since it's still locked down with denuvo.

Sure, go for it

[tidal python]

Sonic Origins is the reason for me doing this in the first place, but its playback of the compressed HCA files SUCKS!

[west sable]

Interesting. I've been working on an AST mod for Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 for a while, the quality on those files was pretty decent IMO.

[tidal python]

It absolutely murders my Sonic & Knuckles Collection OPL3 recordings because of the virtually non-existent filtering on the SoundBlaster 16 CT2290 I sourced the recordings from.

So does MegaMan Legacy Collection 2 stream its music for all games? I might look into recording the PlayStation 3 soundtrack for MegaMan 9.

[west sable]

Yes, it does. Even 8 which used sequencer/samples originally streams its music. Im just about done modding in MET's guitar playthrough versions for 8 and 9, will do 10 as well

You just need to run a patch on it's "disc" file to break the password, its just a zip file with no extension

[tidal python]

Fun. I'll look into this.

Man, these updates are taking forever... and I only have one SATA to USB thing, so I can't plug in the hard drive I have those SC-88Pro recordings on.

[pearl scarab]

When I use the downloader script, it downloads the Genesis core and the MegaDrive core. I can't find any combination of filters to download only the MegaDrive core.
megadrive
megadrive !genesis
!genesis megadrive

[finite quarry]

New megadrive core does a perfect job of Titan Overdrive II, including the "No Borders Allowed" part in the middle (which you have to enable borders to see it drawing successfully in all sides of the border) -- Great job on the core! 😄

Given all the other weird abuses of undocumented video registers (particularly the sky in the part where the ship is crashlanding in the rain) it is absolutely perfect as far as I can tell.

[frigid tapir]

Interesting 🙂

So with TMSS Enabled, the Sonic 2 CENSOR Prototype doesn't boot (shows a Black Screen) which is likely the TMSS doing its "thing".

With TMSS Disabled, it boots fine 🙂

I will have to dig out a Mega Drive 2 to see if that is the same behaviour.

[pine crystal]

It's nice that the TMSS option is there, for completeness (since it was eventually part of the original hardware)... but I really don't see a reason to enable it.

[frigid tapir]

So you can replicate the behaviour of a Model 2? or a Later Model 1?

I am all for it.

I think its fine 🙂

[carmine pine]

it's solely there to show you that littel boot message. the tmss "bios" (if you can call it that" basically does nothing important

[frigid tapir]

It locks out Pirate Carts 🙂 it locked me out of Sonic 2 CENSOR Prototype 😉

[weary blade]

Hi, I've just noticed I'm getting a very weird speedometer in Virtua Racing with the last Megadrive release. With an older one e.g. 9/9 it was displayed correctly.

[frigid tapir]

Can you show a screenshot of it so we can see the weirdness?

[frigid tapir]

ohhh that looks all kinds of wrong

Yep can confirm its broken. Does the same for me as well.

Virtua Racing NTSC-U version

[glass shale]

Time to open that github issue then!

[frigid tapir]

I will do that now.

[weary blade]

same with EU version

[frigid tapir]

So the needle of the Speedometer is completely glitched... 🙂

[pine crystal]

My point was, considering what it's for, I see no good reason to enable it in MiSTer.

[split moth]

That’s fair. The only reason I’m gonna enable it is because my childhood Genesis had it

[glass shale]

My Japanese model 1 had it too 😍

[final pebble]

Does the new MegaDrive core work via composite out? I have Antonio Villena's adapter and the colors are all messed up on mine, but fine through HDMI. The previous Genesis core works fine on the CRT.
It actually works okay when playing SMS games, but not MD ones.

[fallow dome]

New core still WIP

I assume it’ll get addressed at some point

[final pebble]

Ah okay, thanks.
I just wish the updater didn't move all the cheats out of the old one 😭

[fallow dome]

Cheating is bad! Just kidding. You can use symbolic links to get it back. Have your Genesis folder be a sym link to the MegaDrive cheats folder.

[manic ridge]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/MegaDrive_MiSTer/issues/6#event-10389144707

We did it! Yaay!

[wary flame]

I didn’t like the updater moving the cheats either. Now I don’t have the demons of asteborg cheats anymore.

[fallow dome]

It’s in cheats/MegaDrive

[wary flame]

They worked on genesis core. Tried on mega drive since they were moved and weren’t in there. I’ll have to look on my computer.

That sym link was a good idea Robby. I’ll be doing that. Thanks.

[pale plover]

So any issues with the core with the latest unstable build? Not finding anything obvious.

[fallow dome]

The new MegaDrive core is better and more accurate. There shouldn’t be any need to continue using the deprecated Genesis core.