Nintendo 64

[tender pine]

I mean being more than accurate enough for 99.9% of people while offering the best hdmi and analogue video out with numerous options to even tweak that to your heart's content.

[wanton sun]

There are FPGAs with enough internal memory for RDRAM, but super expensive. Otherwise you need external RAM that really fits the needs to be able to reach 100%.
Still, the design must be perfect and all details known, what is near impossible with gen5

[tender pine]

Just out of interest what exactly in GDP do you mean when you say super expensive or are you refering to compute cost?

[wanton sun]

GDP?
N64 would need 9Mbyte for RDRAM if you want the expansion pak.
List price for FPGAs offering this is around 4k$ for AMD and 7k$ for Intel.
Even in high volume with 20% of list price this is still expensive.

[tender pine]

Wow. I had no idea. That's uber expensive.

[wanton sun]

that's why you want appropriate external memory instead

[chilly ember]

That's what she said

[coral hill]

How much would that cost

And is it an option?

[slow silo]

That's what the DE-10 already has, issue is that it's shared with the CPU. We just need a few megs of memory that only the FPGA is allowed to access

I am guessing that this can't be solved with dual-RAM because the SDRAM would be too slow even if operating in a sort of dual-channel mode? And that we can't use DDR for the ram modules because the GPIO pins can't operate that fast realiably?

[wanton sun]

dual sdram would be enough to hold the lower 8 bits of RDRAM at 125MHz, but not 9 bits.

it's clear that it's possible to have memory to fulfill the needs, otherwise A3D and M64 would not exist, but probably hard to find that on a off-the-shelf eval board.

[slow silo]

9 bits?

[wanton sun]

yes, RDRAM is 9 bits wide with 500MHz clock. It reads 72 bit words with 62.5MHz internal clock

Dual SDRAM(each 16bit wide) could provide 64bits when running at 125 MHz.
To cover the 9th bit you need either higher bandwidth or another memory

The n64 core currently holds the lower 8 bit in DDR3 and the 9th bit in SDRAM, so they can be read in parallel

[jolly turret]

Does anyone how expensive it would be to to design and produce a custom board specifically for the Mister, so that it can fulfill all the needed requirements for the N64 core and also offer more logic elements?

Isn't this something that Taki is also working on with his Mister Pi 2?

[wanton sun]

Requirements can be quite different. E.g. N64 needs different memory than NES, SNES or GBA

Building something that is perfect for all systems gets more and more difficult

[upper pivot]

Is much known about Nintendo’s N64 emulation in NSO? Is the original ROM being emulated? Is it a dynamic recompiler? Or have they statically recompiled the roms or parts of them?

[blissful plaza]

ROMs are emulated. We could extract them rather easily (BNZ format to z64-compatible format).

[slow silo]

It splits both the DDR3 and SDRAM as the system memory?

[storm vessel]

What’s M64?

[tepid shuttle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COl-el6hwwI fpga n64 console using robert's existing mister core as a base

[turbid warren]

Mintendo 64

[ivory laurel]

Next one will be L64

[storm vessel]

Well damn that’s cool (and my googles only found Mupen64 etc)

Have we come full circle? From N64 hardware to emulators to FPGA core to hardware based on FPGA core. Feels weird but cool.

[iron wren]

I mean it’s an fpga still, it’s not hardware based on the mister core- it’s an fpga using a core just like mister

[zinc dew]

I think I found a bug with the N64 core. In Golgeneye the start menu seems to have glitches.

[tepid shuttle]

golgeneye isn't a real game, that might be your problem

[zinc dew]

Goldeneye sorry Mr smartey pants

[mossy vector]

It better not be about how the font is pixellated. You need all the vi vaseline at Original.

[zinc dew]

No it’s pretty obvious

I am a retro expert I would know the font

Yeah load up Goldeneye and you’ll see the pause menu glitch out randomly

[slow silo]

I'm trying to pause it but I keep making Bond check the time for some reason

[zinc dew]

totally broken

[weary palm]

I made this video. Sorry for the video quality. It's still an N64.
(...and I filmed it with my phone)
https://youtu.be/7Ei9LBcqiCM

[broken creek]

Love the performance mod+turbo core. It’s the Perfect Dark we wish we had back in the day.

[lean sable]

I just wish it could be applied to Perfect Dark + mod 😞

I love all the extra GoldenEye stuff added to that one

[zinc dew]

Anyone looking at the watch glitch in Goldeneye

[worn delta]

Can you get a video of this Robby?

[zinc dew]

Sure one second

@woeful grove can we get someone to look into this big

Bug

mapper bug

[wanton sun]

you really need to upgrade the watch, it's still using a beta version

[zinc dew]

OHHHHHHHHH, my bad

MiSTer wins again!

[magic girder]

Please start a YouTube channel 😂

[blazing knot]

@night saddle won’t be the only Mister YouTuber game in town. Watch out!

[blissful wolf]

how do I compile this witchcraft?

[mint shadow]

Don't need to, the 80MHz turbo core is avaialable on the n64 github repo, or through update alls Alt Cores.
The rom patch itself, the Perfect Dark High Performance (PDHP) patch might be archived somewhere on the internet if you search for it.

[blissful wolf]

ah people are not compiling the PDHP from source and just getting it from archive dot org

[upper pivot]

Wait was @zinc dew trolling?

About the 007 mister glitch?

[mint shadow]

Yes...
Assuming Robby is always trolling, unless he specifically says otherwise, is the safe way to go.

[green epoch]

Robby has the soul of a shit poster, but the heart of a human

[languid dune]

Everyone knows he has the heart of a fat baby.

💪

[zinc dew]

lol i try to put effort in my trolling to entertain people

[mortal panther]

You get an 'F' ||for Fantastic job!||

[lone geyser]

Robby's trolling isn't good

[languid dune]

It's great! ||Right?... ||

[lone geyser]

I've been bested. It's great, indeed

He hasn't done that in a while, though

[magic girder]

You mean the biceps of a fat baby

[verbal urchin]

Has there been iQue support added to this core?

[worn delta]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that... as in can it play dumps of iQue games?

[blazing knot]

Presumably. From what I can tell, iQue had enough differences in the hardware that games were fully rebuilt from source

https://retroactive.be/personal/ique/

The updated libultra used to re-build these games has new functions to access the modified hardware of the iQue, chiefly regarding savegames and real-time clock. However, to preserve compatibility, games still used the original graphics microcodes they were designed around.

So iQue game dumps likely wouldn’t just work out of the box

Custom NEC ASIC. Everything possible was consolidated into it. The CPU, RCP, PIF, etc are all in there, along with everything that is new. The R4300i is now clocked at 1.5x the speed it originally was, yielding a clock speed of 140.625 MHz.
Because a lot of N64 titles use the CPU counter register to determine timings, some games would run way too fast if ported directly, so the iQue's custom libultra includes a patch to correct all reads of this register to increment at the expected slower value.

this part is particularly interesting. Not sure what that means in terms of the current core ever being able to support iQue

But my guess is that it’s a no

[weary perch]

many decrypted ique dumps work without modification. i believe all of them work using Zoinkity's "unQue" patches, including the digital manuals. you do not get the performance benefits of the iQue, so they basically run very similarly to NTSC

(iQue games generally have marginally better performance all things being equal due to some superior hardware specs, which the core doesn't do)

[ivory laurel]

I was this close to ask for a message of yours from 8 months ago about iQue to be pinned 🤣

[weary perch]

but the core isn't 100% accurate with performance anyway so, basically - yes they do work

[blazing knot]

I stand corrected!

[weary perch]

recommended to use the unQue patches because the core doesn't attempt to emulate the flash memory stuff

unQue patches them to use SRAM iirc

[blazing knot]

Figured the different clock speed would cause problems

[weary perch]

notably several of the decrypted but otherwise unmodified dumps do not work, but this is also true on EverDrive-64 X7

i believe it is the same set that work/don't work

haven't tested on SummerCart 64 but i would lean toward assuming that is the same

so, not a core issue for the ones that just black screen, happens on real hardware for those too

but all of the patched versions work

[verbal urchin]

I’ll give you an example. When I would boot up the Chinese/iQue version of Paper Mario, it would say something like “Rom Type: ????” And I’m guessing its because it can’t detect the region but whenever I would play an iQue rom, it wouldn’t save, even after opening OSD

and that was months ago so I wonder if it got updated to where you can play iQue roms and save your progress

if not it’s all good

[worn delta]

These ROMs in no intro or HTGDB Everdrive pack?

[verbal urchin]

Uh well, it’s patched with RomKitty’s iQue hacks

I don’t think i got it from either of them. The U.S., JPN, and other romhacks of paper Mario 64 work just fine though

[worn delta]

We tested pretty thoroughly against those packs a few years back, but I don't remember at any point anyone bringing up raw iQue dumps. I am going to guess they are their own format and native support isn't possible on real hardware so likewise not on the core, but someone else will need to weigh in, I am not versed at all in the iQue format.

[lime topaz]

online talk in the NES thread made me wonder if folks here are aware of NetLib https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9aVrBq0aiY https://github.com/buu342/N64-NetLib

works on the SC64

[mild widget]

Hey guys just wondered if there's a way to fix the slow down when playing Resident evil 2?

[sullen harbor]

turbo core

[mild widget]

Cool cheers for the info

[jolly turret]

If I recall correctly the slow down should only or mostly only happen in the first few scenes at the beginning, after that it should be just fine and running smooth. Using the turbo core deals with all of these slowdowns though.

[oblique remnant]

nevermind it works fine now with a different controller 🙂 it works now must have a connection problem with my transferpak or 3rd party pad that wouldn't work

[zinc dew]

Omg are you the smartball? I love your SNES game!

[wanton sun]

transfer pak connection to controller is horrible unreliable. If i move mine once too often it's gone. Worked better 25 years ago.

One of the reason I only use the virtual transfer pak

[zinc dew]

I don’t think I really used it so what do I know but maybe the connections are slightly dirty?

[digital remnant]

i can only say transfer pak connection also was horrible 25 years ago 😄

[oblique remnant]

you're right it's really unpractical. I never played it back in the day and I bought one cheap years ago. not only puts it extra weight to the controller when it has bad connection it forces you to reboot 🤮

can you level pokémon in pokémon stadium and save them back to cartride or just hire them? I mean otherwise you just import and build your teams at first then get rid of that pak.

[iron wren]

Saving grace is you can use a different controller to hold your cartridge if you’re just doing the singleplayer stuff

[blissful wolf]

How tall is an N64 shell? been thinking if it would be neat to get one of those aliexpress shells and putting a mister pi inside it. Wire a SNAC to the controller ports.

I guess the USB hub would have to be removed and put on a wire extension. Maybe solder on wires to the reset/user/osd buttons too https://ae-pic-a1.aliexpress-media.com/kf/S91d205086e0a428bbb04bf0dc9822028A.jpg_960x960q75.jpg_.avif

dont have an n64 on hand anymore to check the actual size of the shell on the inside tho

[tepid shuttle]

maybe wait to see how the m64 looks :p

for all we know it could be a drop-in replacement that fits in a real n64 shell

[weary palm]

Talking about the TransferPak. Use some "DeoxIT" and shim it with some paper so it won't budge. 🙃 Or just blow in it.

[verbal urchin]

Why can’t Hori remake the Hori pad or do a re-release through Amazon or their website of the N64 mini pad :/

Darn ya modern maniacs

[tender pine]

Sorry, what?

[ember pewter]

I wonder what this AliExpress bootleg version is like
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0iMOaz

Edit: nvm just noticed that it doesn't have the cursed dpad location

[vapid hawk]

have you seen the tribute64?

[tender pine]

We've the NSO N64 controller. Why want for anything else new controller-wise for N64? It's just that damn latency...

[tepid shuttle]

the hori pad is alright but i always found it too small for my hands. joystick was really loose on all the ones i've tried as well

i still think the original n64 controller is the best for playing n64 games. if it's not your thing, a gamecube controller is functionally the same, so that's an option

[tender pine]

It's true. I like the Hori but while perfectly serviceable and cute it's joystick is entirely too sensitive. Hardly a major problem but definitely makes a good few games a lot more finicky.

You can fortunately still at present buy numerous OEM N64 controllers in excellent condition - essentially new - for less than their original RRP.

[tepid shuttle]

even with it's flaws, the oem controller is really good. perhaps someday someone can future-proof it by making a better, no-compromise joystick design

[tender pine]

Flaws? Honestly, what flaws? Like any controller you need a decent condition one but should you have that I genuinely don't see what flaws anybody would find.

[tepid shuttle]

the joystick having a plastic-on-plastic design that wears away with use is arguably the biggest issue for most people

i've bought a fair amount of used n64 pads and some have noticeably tighter thumbsticks than others

[tender pine]

That's a fair point but id argue any controller however good deteriorates over extensive usage and time all in their unique ways. I'm more talking a good/very good condition OEM N64 controller. It needn't be excellent even.

[tepid shuttle]

that is true. i've run into good condition ones more often than bad

it's a great pad either way, never understood the hate for it

[tender pine]

The hate - or certainly massive percentage of it - comes from dingbats and trolls who've probably only experienced one via a cheap clone playing Fortnite or something else crap with it.

[tepid shuttle]

i think people are put off by the fact that it has 3 grips, and they're confused by how it's meant to be held. i always felt it was pretty obvious; for 2D games, you hold the left and right grips, and for 3D titles, you hold the center and right grips (with some exceptions)

[mild widget]

I know it's convenient to have rumble built into the controller "thanks ps1" lol but i feel it was so much more aesthetic to have to plug in a device to your controller just a giant rumble pack sticking out "now I'm ready to play games"

[tepid shuttle]

honestly never really saw the appeal of rumble

as a kid i would always turn it off. just makes my hands feel funny

[unreal sundial]

I got the N64 NSO one but I find it so uncomfortable personally, holding the middle prong and the right one

it wasn't an issue when n64 came out, I assume personal expectations changed a few dozen controllers since 😅

[zinc dew]

I’d argue that the extra attachment and weight makes it more authentic.

[verbal urchin]

I mean I love Hori products, I have their N64 and GameCube controllers. I’m personally a huge sucker for mini controllers but I wish maybe they had re-released their older controllers on their website and other websites like Amazon

Retro Fighters is awesome too though

[verbal urchin]

These are cool! I don’t own one of these though

Already have the Hori and Tribute64 controllers

[verbal urchin]

I sold my OEM clear blue one, never looked back

The plastic stick drove me crazy

[mild widget]

Agreed 💯

[sullen harbor]

I wanted to replace the stick on my OEM with that metal one I saw around. Then I saw the metal stick n bowls prices and said I'd have to be a crackhead level retro enthusiast to spend like 400 dollars for that and bought that wireless saffun controller instead

[brittle mountain]

I think the saffun is just fine but I have held an official n64 controller in my hands like once 20 years ago so what do I know.

[spare meadow]

Anyone with the 8bitdo N64 modkit can help me with this update?

#controllers message

[digital remnant]

you can play pokemon with the GB tower on a gb software emulator for n64 🙂 your savegame will be saved to the cartridge of course. but you cant level with stadium battles

that was the coolest feature #1 for me as kid back then

[slow silo]

The N64's controller design wears out a lot faster than any other. Every single N64 controller I have ever had, all OEM, has a loose joystick now because of it. Meanwhile I still have serviceable PS1 dualshock controllers. It's very design had plastic grinding down on plastic, of course that would wear down quickly. Many current analog sticks have a resistive pad that rubs that can wear down too, but much slower, and some used hall effect which are immune to that kind of wear.

[slow silo]

That's definitely the case. I have seen many people make jokes that you need three arms to use it. Feels like most of those might have been from after the N64 era, since it was pretty obvious back then that you was never meant to use all of the controller at once, every manual showed how there was three ways to hold the controller. That's why the Z button exists, to basically act as a replacement to either L or R if you was using a grip that put one of those out of reach (which was any grip that made you use the analog stick)

[slow silo]

Only problem was games that supported both rumble and memory cards, you would have to keep swapping back and fourth, was annoying. Gauntlet Legacy was like this.

[slow silo]

I just got the 8BitDo hall effect replacement. Yeah, it's not 100% perfect, but it's close enough and I won't have to worry about it wearing down again.

[sullen harbor]

that's where I am too

[slow silo]

I can't believe modern controllers still use potentimeter sticks, even the Switch 2 after all the lawsuits over drift in Switch 1 controllers.... meanwhile we had hall effect in the Sega Saturn, Dreamcast, and I believe some versions of the DualShock... either 2 or 3

And now we have TMR that's even better

Also yeah, the price of those metal sticks is absurd

And you still have to use your original plastic gears which are also a wear part, and have to completely disassemble and reassemble your original joystick assembly to install them, it' s not like it's a drop-in replacement like said hall effect stick is

[mild widget]

I'm glad the dreamcast fixed this issue

[mild widget]

You can now get ones made from steel

[mild widget]

You can get a fully assembled module but those prices man...

[slow silo]

What? Not Platinum? 😝

[slow silo]

Yeah, that's absurd. You can get a N64 HDMI mod and installation service for it than less than that, and 8BitDo's Hall Effect replacemet was like $17

[mild widget]

For that price it should be 😂

[tender pine]

Two words I hate hearing. Hall Effect. People say this like it's some incredible truth and justice. Lump these people in the category of CRT bores.

[verbal urchin]

For that much??? No thanks

[mild widget]

I know right I don't even know who drumstick is 😂

[weary palm]

Magnets

My bike speedometer uses a hall effect sensor to detect when the wheel has completed s rotation. Must be really good and accurate.

[digital remnant]

dualshock were released a year after the n64 though, so sony could learn from Nintendos mistakes (again)

[weary palm]

Hating something people swear by and that some of them are fanatics... guess I should hate anime.

Why are there no optical joysticks though? A typical mouse sensor would give great resolution and accuracy.

But drift would probably be an issue, now even I think about it... Optics would work, but it wouldn't be that simple.

[raw oriole]

Friend of mine replaced his xbox pad sticks with hall effect ones. Turns out the triggers are also magnetic, and the dumb things interfere with each other - left stick is perturbed by left trigger being pulled in now. Very poor on whoever designed the replacements.

[vapid hawk]

the n64 stick is a kind of optical

[slow silo]

I mean, I only started caring about Hall Effect and TMR after seeing so much of my controllers with potentimeter sticks develop drift, even newer systems like my Switch. I am not a "fanatic" about it, but if I am trying to go for Hall Effect or TMR sticks now when possible, especially when getting replacement parts for a controller that started drifting purely to avoid the issue from developing again this quickly.

[weary palm]

It's just a silly thing to hate imo.

[slow silo]

The N64 WAS optical actually.

[weary palm]

I think audiophiles make poor choices. I don't hate audio. 😅

[slow silo]

Notice that this entire complicated assembly is just to spin those two wheels, which have a series of spokes on the edges

Optical encoders read those spokes to tell how the stick moves

It's actually quite accurate, problem is that the rest of the design wears out fast

[weary palm]

Yeah, You're right... it's optical. But I was thinking more of how a newer mouse works. But You're right.

[slow silo]

Also that ludicrisly expensive metal stick doesn't even replace those geared parts that are spinning the wheels, which also wear down, it only replaces the stick and bowl

[weary palm]

Yeah, they're super accurate of you ask me.

[slow silo]

And you still end up with parts scraping against each other, only now it's a plastic/silicon like nub scraping on polished steel

[weary palm]

Still find it easier to R-aim in Goldeneye 007 with a N64 controller. 😅

[slow silo]

Instead of plastic on plastic

I just find it absurd that with all the complaints about drift, all the OEMs are still using potentiometer sticks when alternate tech that has been around for a while and is cheap is avaliable. Only reason I can think is if they are intentionally doing it to make people buy more controllers

Would explain how much of a mess they are to repair nowadays with soldered wires holding them together

[weary palm]

I don't get how they can drift.

[slow silo]

Even more hair-pulling, the TRIGGERS on modern Xbox controllers are hall effect... but the sticks are not

[weary palm]

GameCube controllers should drift too then.

[slow silo]

The sticks use potentiometers, they are basically adjustable resistors, the level of resistance determines where the stick is. Problem is, they work by rubbing conductive parts together, this wears them out, which makes the readings start to become less accurate

[weary palm]

They must be bad quality then.

Did PSPs drift?

[slow silo]

It's just physics. There are definitely ones with worse quality than others, but all will drift over time from wear

Is the PSP's even an analog stick? It's more like, a tab you slide

No idea what the mechanics of that are

[weary palm]

Yes they are

[slow silo]

The Vita has analog sticks

It's not a stick though on the PSP, it's analog but it's more like, some kind of sliding mechanism, it dosen't tilt

[weary palm]

Doesn't matter. Still potentiometers.

[slow silo]

Yeah, looks like it

https://content.instructables.com/FXO/VKNA/GINORI1S/FXOVKNAGINORI1S.jpg

And apparently some people have had drift issues with them

[weary palm]

I guess miniaturization is partly to blame here. 🙃

[slow silo]

Not sure if it would be possible to use hall effect or tmr in something that low profile

Probably is though

Sadly not a drop-in replacement for most controllers either

[weary palm]

Turns out peoole have been experimenting with mouse sensors.

[slow silo]

If the controller can't be recalibrated you can't replace potentimeter sticks with hall effect or tmr. I have some Xbox One controllers with drift, but I can't replace their sticks with anything other than potentiometer because of that, but Xbox Series controllers though can be recalibrated

Not sure how the N64 is a drop-in replacement, likely has something to do with how different it works

IIRC, if you had the stick at an angle when you turn on the console it will think that is the center right? I assume it has something to do with that rather than knowing where the center is regardless

[weary palm]

I would do it like that, but the other way around. A static sensor and a half-sphere at the end of the joystick.

Some consoles has key combos for recentering.

[slow silo]

I guess a mouse/optical sensor like that would work, though I question the accuracy. And I assume dust could interfere with it

[weary palm]

Sidewinder Precision Pro

Ancient technology.

[slow silo]

Yeah, like I said, it's not new tech, the Sega Saturn had it, and I doubt it was the first

The "HD Rumble" in the Switch's controllers is ancient tech too

Which makes it more ridiculus that OEMs are not using it over pot sticks

TMR might be newer tech but it's also not exactly cutting edge either

[zinc dew]

TMR TIL I DIE

[cyan dome]

i think you can lube good condition n64 sticks to make them last longer and have the plastic grind less

[blazing knot]

I’ve used small amounts of krytox 205 g0 around the analog stick an triggers on my Saturn 3D pad and my Dreamcast controllers and it really helps on those. Planning to do the same for my n64 pad as well

People (including me) usually use this stuff for mechanical keyboard switches but it works just fine on anything plastic

[vapid hawk]

n64 sticks age a lot better with even a tiny bit of lubrication

i'd say thats the most critical flaw of the design is they shipped it dry

also - mario party, that 1 game probably ruined more n64 controllers than any other, i'd argue without it the stick wouldn't have this rep

[magic girder]

[mild widget]

Wow Just testing out the turbo core and GoldenEye is so much more playable It now doesn't slow to a complete crawl once you go through the tunnel of the dam lol

I know you can get around the slowdown in that section by just looking at the floor but maybe I want to look at the blurry textures in the distance 😂

[vapid hawk]

play the xbla version at 60fps it'll melt your brain 😄

[mild widget]

I have a modded 360 I need to check that out ha

[vapid hawk]

100% do it, its incredibly good

i thought i'd give it a quick go just to see and ended up replaying the whole game multiple times

[mild widget]

Sounds like I'm definitely going to be doing the same thing then lol 😆

[vapid hawk]

its been patched / tweaked a bit by community since its initial leak too make sure and update

though it was already by far one of the most complete unreleased games i've ever seen leaked

crazy it was cancelled when it was this good

[mild widget]

Gotta love community projects

[tender pine]

Fcuk whoever fat cats and slimy beaurcrsts were behind the XBLA version of Goldeneye never getting an official public release.

[mild widget]

I think it was to do with the rights I would imagine

Maybe Microsoft didn't want to pay for them lol

[tender pine]

Exactly. Somebody somewhere didn't feel they were getting paid adequately.

Somebody bodies likely already sitting on a mountain of money still wanted more and more and more.

An essentially complete passion project getting shelved for this very reason is a sin.

Now all we have is that really, really crappy N64 port which released last year or the year before. I forget because it was clear from the first few levels with it nothing had been done to make the move over to modern hardware. It's was lacking in every department. A travesty.

[plush summit]

The fella who leaked the XBLA version was a....DOUBLE AGENT??? 😱

[tender pine]

It was a lass who leaked it. No fella.

[plush summit]

Joanna???

[tender pine]

You've already said too much...

These are indeed Dark days.

[covert bough]

Perfectly dark one could say

[mild widget]

Mhmmm preach brother

Damn TV glare... But the game looks really nice on my 4K oled with Deblur enabled

Personally I probably would get rid of all of the anti aliasing if I could but it loses the N64 "look" and a lot of textures just look awful without it because they're so low resolution and stretched

[slow silo]

IIRC it was Nintendo forcing the issue with some partial rights to it they own. It's the same reason that it's not on the physical version of Rare Replay and the XBox version does not have online even though the NSO version does. Nintendo is a real hardass about Goldeneye rights

[blazing knot]

Which is weird because they weren’t that way with other stuff Rare made like Banjo and Conker

[plush summit]

I can't say for sure, but knowing all the holders in contention, it was an impossible task at the time

Nintendo/MS not budging on which versions got what upgrades
MGM not being a fan of games in general
Activision

[mild widget]

It's damn shame as it deserved a remaster

[slow silo]

Yeah, I know the right are a mess, but apparently when others were ready to play ball Nintendo was being stubborn, and demanding their version be better

Hence how only they get to have online, and you can only get Goldeneye on the digital version of Rare Replay

[mild widget]

That doesn't suprise me with
shittendo

[slow silo]

Give it a month, they will parent games where you see things in first person, and shoot at things, and guns in videogames in general

[plush summit]

Shittendo? really?

You could've said Shitgeru Miyamoto

[mild widget]

Have you ever seen the angry russian dude review Nintendo consoles? Lol

"it's the shittendo shitcube!"

[slow silo]

Eh, I debate how much of it is Miyamoto and how much is other heads of the company, or even just their legal department on it's own

[plush summit]

its not supposed to make sense, just make a funny

[slow silo]

https://tenor.com/view/tmnt-ninja-turtles-teenage-mutant-ninja-gif-12689840059419728579

[blazing knot]

They moved shiggy over to help with the movies, which is probably a good thing after star fox zero

[slow silo]

Ah yeah, that game kinda pissed me off. They nutered what could have been a decent Star Fox game to make it a tech demo for their console's gimmick, despite it coming out late in it's lifespan.

[slender hawk]

‎ 🎩

🧿👄🧿 ✨
‎ 🫴

[slow silo]

Even ruining one of the most iconic lines to basically go "Hey! Did you know your controller has a screen?"

[turbid warren]

the funny thing is that Star Fox Zero doesn't even use the screen very well

[slow silo]

.... and then as soon as the Switch was announced suddenly went "You know what? Nobody likes the second screen" for BotW when Zelda was one of the few games that DID benefit from it... just so the Switch version would not be inferior

... yes. I am still angry about that, Pokken too, just about everyone has forgotten, I still have not.

[blazing knot]

I liked the gamepad, but it was best used as a second screen for UI stuff like the DS/3DS

[slow silo]

Yeah, it was great for map screens, ui, etc. For actual splitting the gameplay though it was VERY hit and miss, mostly miss

Also neat that it could function as a tv remote without needing ot turn on the console

[vapid hawk]

i kinda like how it let you play the wiiU without a tv

[slow silo]

For some games

[vapid hawk]

yeah

and it was only interesting because switch/steamdeck didnt exist yet

now it seems silly

[slow silo]

Switch wasn't even first to do what it did, the PSP Go kinda did just about everything the Switch did. Had a dock to make it output to TV and let you use a dualshock when docked.

There were later PSP models that had TV out too but it was a lot less simple to switch and use like that

Speaking of portable, was there ever a version of the Ique with a screen? Since they already fit the innards of the N64 in a controller by that point.

[blissful wolf]

why would you design the mouse sensor on the moving parts and not the other way around to prevent wear?!

[mild widget]

From experience yes the psp did drift lol

But that was more so from getting dust under the cap

Once you cleaned it out It was fine

[mild widget]

Yeah I'd rather just get a steel bowl and replace the stick every so often once it wears down

Apparently tho they are working on replacement gears too

[slow silo]

Great, so a full metal setup will cost $500 then

[zinc dew]

Cyborg controllers ain’t cheap

[stone pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/gaming-competitive-gaming-console-teen-titans-gif-9115263

[slow silo]

that's Cyborg controlling

[stone pilot]

using a Cyborg Controller

[weary palm]

Hey @wanton sun you need to implement this. j/k (It would be cool to see this demo running though. But it is probably easier to patch the ROM 🙃)
https://github.com/ares-emulator/ares/issues/1467

[wanton sun]

"This demo does an emulator check: it lowers the PI speed to the minimum and expects a read from ROM to fail at that speed."
I mean, that is easy to rebuilt, but a proper solution would mean to write a testrom to see at which speed the Cart access is going to fail.

Still I find it kind of surprising, because the first access to Cart is done at minimum speed, because it actually reads the cartridge speed from the cartridge at this low speed, then uses the true speed for all subsequent accesses.
That also why games all start with the same first 4 bytes.

[tender pine]

Anybody know if the N64 Mayflash controller adapter been tested for lag?

Looks a nice and simple off the shelf solution if lag is plenty low enough.

[slow silo]

So it's a downloadble demo with an anti-emulator check? Why?

[blazing knot]

The age old practice of gatekeeping?

[slow silo]

Oh I see, it's not a game demo, it's a tech demo... that's almost 15 years old. I assume it was because it simply did not run in N64 emulators from 2011 and checked against that

[wanton sun]

It would make sense if it would check against something it would need.
On the other hand, people will try it in emulator, it doesn't run good and then they blame the developer...

[digital remnant]

pretty sure that is why he did it, n64 emulation in 2011 was still crappy

i guess that demo will work fine on Analogue 3D, since marshall is lead dev there

[slow silo]

Usually from what I have seen most users woulden't even know about tech demos, much less care about them, and generally the imptessive ones are known to break emulators usually. I don't think most people that would run a tech demo would think it's the demo at fault if it runs wrong.

[digital remnant]

its not a tech demo, its a demoscene demo

its art

[slow silo]

I remember when the famous overdrive 2 demo on Genesis had the message "Grief counsling will be provided for emulator developers" or something like that in the end

[slow silo]

https://tenor.com/view/itsart-art-gif-4621521

I don't think they were doing it to avoid people complaining that it's broken, I assume they did it because they knew back in 2011 that it wouldn't run on any emulator so they just added a quick check that every emulator failed

[digital remnant]

but the overcame it and it runs fine on emulators now - fine on ares and i am pretty sure others as well

[slow silo]

Only in PAL mode

One of its effects breaks in ntsc mode

[digital remnant]

on hardware as well or emulator only?

[slow silo]

IIRC hardware as well

[digital remnant]

i looked it up and titan overdrive 1+2 is only supposed to run on PAL hardware

[slow silo]

But I don't have a Genesis everdrive to test it

[digital remnant]

so it works as intended i guess 😄

"Plans for the final version include lots of effect improvements and glitch fixes, a 7 MB ROM size for better flash cart compatibility, but no NTSC compatibility.

People often ask why Overdrive 2 is PAL only. That’s because most of us (and the demoscene in general) operates in PAL regions. PAL also offers a number of technical advantages (more CPU / graphics transfer time per frame). Although we could fix Overdrive 1 for NTSC, for Overdrive 2 this would just be impossible to do without either a major downgrade of most of its effects or a shrinking the screen size."

[slow silo]

Well, it's still runs, just one specific effect does not work on ntsc. It also won't work on Mister if you turned off the borders

Which if I remember correctly is the default

[compact lark]

As someone with a multi-region CRT, the colors in PAL look different from NTSC. Dunno how to feel about it, but people do say PAL has superior colors over NTSC

[tender pine]

PAL has superior everything over NTSC. Please, don't point to 50 v 60hz as an example why not. That was solely to do with certain developers not optimising games correctly for PAL territories.

[cyan dome]

i dunno 60 is a bigger number of hertz than 50

but yes its 99% optimization failures from games developed in countries with a less robust color standard

better colors, higher resolution, in games where both refresh rates are taken seriously there is very little play difference between 50 pictures a second and 60 pictures a second

[blazing knot]

I’m gonna point to higher refresh rate anyways bc even the difference between 50fps and 60fps is noticeable to me

If I grew up with PAL i probably wouldn’t notice, but here we are

[lone geyser]

Yeah, 50hz vs 60hz isn't just an issue because of Sonic, it also leads to markedly fewer frames

[compact lark]

Yeah, PAL 50hz is more "flickery" to my eye, than 60hz

[tender pine]

40hz modes exist on some high profile PS5 games and most people appear in agreement it's very good. This is via sample and hold displays. 50hz property optimised on a CRT back in the day was an entirely good experience. Plus we had RGB and actual proper plugs with power, not svideo at best and weak AF plugs which looked like a bad experiment.

And performed equally as poorly.

[lone geyser]

"Entirely good experience" ≠ "superior everything"

Also RGB isn't PAL or NTSC. You're using it as a shorthand for European

Also also, the reason people like 40hz is specifically because it's much smoother than 30hz while allowing for better graphics than 60+. That doesn't mean there aren't visible benefits to increasing fps, which we already know extends well beyond even 60hz

[vapid hawk]

40hz with framegen is really shockingly good, i end up settling on that a lot (on pc)

[slow silo]

I mean, it's still a higher refresh rate, optimized or not. We have 120, 144, and 240hz screens now so higher refresh can make a difference

[weary palm]

24hz for that stuttery cinematic feeling.

[magic girder]

PAL

[blazing knot]

It’s a well known fact that the human eye can’t differentiate any refresh rate above 24hz

[solar slate]

Guys, do we have people here who would be interested in doing an actual SNES or N64 game?

[zinc dew]

I would but what are you thinking

[magic girder]

Doing… as in creating?

[slow silo]

Doing? As in developing one?

[magic girder]

SNES Doom: Robby edition

[slow silo]

Or are we talking candles and dinner?

[lament escarp]

I'd like to do an actual game.

[viral portal]

"Are there any girls there?"

[solar slate]

well I have assets for almost a full game at hand. It misses the last level material and the boss fights. Space Western mostly Contra style with several Mode7 stages.

could be done for N64 of SNES because 2D assets

[slow silo]

I am not a game dev, but you realize that the hard part would be the coding, not the audio/video assets. Especially since you havn't even narrowed it down to SNES or N64, which are very different platforms to develop for.

[weary palm]

Everytime I've made s game the graphics has been the hard part. Drawing sprites are hard.

[slow silo]

The limitations of sprites on N64 and especially SNES games are also going to be a big contributing factor. Pre-making the graphics on PC without any consideration for hardware constraints and THEN going "Ok, how do I get these on an N64 and/or a SNES?" is just asking to have to re-do everything from scratch.

[covert bough]

What kind of game is it?

I used to do snes styled pixel art. Those games were masterful at indication

[tawdry marsh]

Has anyone had any success using the transfer pak for Perfect Dark?
No matter what I tried it wouldn't work.

If you connect Perfect Dark GBC it unlocks cheats, you simply need to open the main menu with the pak loaded.

[mint shadow]

Just tried this and it worked just fine. Load GB-Transfer game, set Pad 1 type to Transfer Pack, load Perfect Dark.

[lean sable]

I load my pack saves using the 4 port snac adapter for PD though you're probably talking about something else nvrmnd

[slow silo]

Are you talking about using a real Transfer Pak or a simulated one?

[solar slate]

I started in the games biz in 99 and produced games until Nintendo 3DS. Also not everybody in the games biz is a coder or likes to code 😄 Before I go into any details for a game, I just want to know if we have people here who would be interested in general. The game could be made on N64 using libdragon. There was already a proof of concept using my material a few years ago. The game itself was envisioned as a "SNES style" game and draws from games like Contra 3 /Hardcorps or Rendering Ranger in terms of gameplay and from the Goemon Impact fights for the Boss fights. Doing this on SNES would be possible but requires me to convert all the GFX according the specs. But doing it on SNES requires one or two ASM coder. ASAR could probably be used. Not sure if there is a dev environment like libdragon for SNES. A SNES project probably goes much deeper technically, it is probably more exiting but also needs more dedication. (To compare, the wolfenstein uncut/redux took me and the asm coder almost 3 month full time. But that was very fun and no stress at all because we both knew what we wanted to do.) The N64 version would also require one better two C / C++ coder. There is also some C++ game source code available. that could be used. Also if everything fails with real HW versions, we also could just finish the Godot4.X version. It is all there. just needs to be finished.

[solar slate]

Most of the GFX is finished for that project but still requires several sprites and a full Level set for the last mission and the boss fight gfx. The development stopped before we were able to focus on anything regarding Boss fights.

[tawdry marsh]

A simulated one.

[solar slate]

here are some gfx examples

[tawdry marsh]

So you load the GB game before the N64 game? Maybe that's what I was doing wrong. I did 64, change controller and then load GB, although I did also reset the core.

[solar slate]

here you can see the N64 proof of concept using libdragon.

[tepid shuttle]

looks neat. i see the biolizard from sa2 there

[paper orchid]

holy hell that foliage. inspirational.

[slow silo]

For some reason those visuals remind me of Megaman8

To be clear I mean the style, not saying they are copied

[solar slate]

that is all Henk Nieborg material

the guy who did Contra 4 and now that Terminator game

[junior pine]

And The Misadventures of Flink, Lomax, Lionheart... the guy is a MASTER

[solar slate]

yep because of this we had hired him 🙂

[weary palm]

That helicopter reminds me of Super C.

sudden urge of having to get to the chopper

[broken creek]

Contra 4 😍

Would love to see this game on a DS core someday. Flip the monitor into Tate mode and blast away.

DS really had some stunning looking games. Great sprite-work on some of them.

[tepid shuttle]

mega man zx/advent is a personal favorite

[broken creek]

I haven’t tried the MM DS games. I’ll have to check them out.

[weary palm]

i hope roberts ds core fits the M64. probably not. xD

[tepid shuttle]

one can hope

[stiff pecan]

maybe off-topic, but anyone with a summercart64: does it get pretty warm/hot after playing for a while? I'm trying to figure out if mine overheated while playing F-Zero X

I've also tested playing an original cart of f-zero x in case n64s just get warm, but after playing a full circuit both the cart and console are very cool

[tepid shuttle]

i never noticed mine getting too hot

i imagine the fpga gets toasty at least

[stiff pecan]

that's what I was thinking, maybe needs some air holes

[tepid shuttle]

definitely

[stiff pecan]

it warms itself, and everything around the cartridge slot

[chilly ember]

Maybe it needs a fan

[stiff pecan]

at least, that's what I'm seeing

[tepid shuttle]

where did you get yours from?

[stiff pecan]

could also be that I bought from the wrong seller

[chilly ember]

Aliexpress?

[tepid shuttle]

the aliexpress ones are of greatly varying quality

[stiff pecan]

aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008596633109.html

[tepid shuttle]

xstation store lol

[stiff pecan]

not confusing at all

[weary palm]

Aren't those FPGAs made to operate between 20 and 80°C? I wouldn't worry about it.

Looked it up. +85°C.

(185°F)

[worn delta]

Is there room to put a small heatsink on the chip inside the cart?

[slow silo]

The only version endorsed by the creator looks like it probably does...

Hard to tell on the most common one an aliexpress that I assume is where most get theirs though

But like MMG2 said before, they can very widly in quality, and design:

You can't really trust that the same images have not been just copied from seller to seller and it's not the same version they have in stock, or that even a seller known to have a specific version won't start stocking a different version

(Like how the PCB is considerably altered in that image, and appears to use a BGA version of the FPGA put on a board to covert it to QFP

(Also... WTF is this image on some of the stores advertising it?)

[lime topaz]

i've been playing a ton of Mario Artist and leaving the SC64 on for several hours and it definitely heats up some. it has never crashed on me though. got mine from epicjoy on ali.

is anyone into Japan Pro Golf Tour 64? someone at the Randnet+ discord just put together a tourney using the "network tournament" feature, which was cracked in 2021 (https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1579/) but to my knowledge no one has actually used it. this requires no actual network features, just inputting a password on your end and then submitting another password with your encoded results.

[digital remnant]

if your aliexpress sellers claims 6TG chips + button on the back it should be recent enough and fine

dont buy the old ones without a button (may be old everdrive clones)

just do a "sc64deployer test" after your cart arrives, and if it passes, everthing is fine, if not return it

[stiff pecan]

I didn't know about the test suite until I was checking out their github, ran it on mine for a few hours and everything was passing, so I think it's a solid card

[slow silo]

Like I said, there is no way to know if a seller is actually selling the version they show/claim or just copied the images and/or description from another seller but has a different version, or that if a seller that you even know is selling a version dosen't at one point change their stock to a different version.

[weary palm]

Made this "patcher" of sorts for Ocarina of Time. Uses a newer version of Nintendo's Fast3D microcode and is compiled with a (much) more modern compiler. Hopefully some performance gains. Haven't tried that much.

I HAVE NOT MADE THIS "HACK", ONLY THIS TOOL FOR PATCHING ROMS

---> https://krullo.se/n64/oot/ <---

...

Here's a video about the microcode, for anyone interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xFOI6lMLh0

The collapse of Ganon's tower is quite laggy... perhaps I should do some small benchmarking there?

[weary palm]

I don't really have the means to do that. No capture card.

[wanton sun]

I'm curious how the cutscenes react to this change on original console: will they desync now that there is less lag?

[lament escarp]

Just film the screen with your phone and the n64 core fps overlay. 💪 😬

[worn delta]

Does anyone know if any of the N64 flash carts support .tas files? Seems they exist for N64

[weary palm]

OoT doesn't drop below 20 that often so perhaps thr gain is minimal. The fps overlay is pretty much locked at 20. You can see it drop to 10 for a few frames in extreme cases like killing several stalfos at the same time.

I'm not 100%, but I think this core lags a lot less during the tower collapse. the shockwave sounds are player several seconds after the shockwaves. talking about vanilla oot here.

I don't see that as a loss... xD

[tepid shuttle]

timings in the n64 core aren't 100% accurate. many games run too fast, and some too slow

[digital remnant]

i doubt its possible that a cartridge emulates controller input? normally you use something like tasbot to replay tas files on real console right?

[weary palm]

i've only seen an old nes tas core by @woeful grove

[woeful grove]

depends if they write to the data bus or not

the controllers

like you could hijack the register or whatever n64 uses to poll them maybe? I have no idea how controller reading on n64 works

it's funny you mention that though because I was just reviving that tas feature as something I was going to implement

[weary palm]

there are tases that goes way beyond sending one conroller state per frame

[woeful grove]

smb3 ACE stuff yeah

[weary palm]

i used it a few times

it was fun 🙂

you made this recenty?

[woeful grove]

it beats smb3 in 5 microseconds

yes, yesterday in fact

[weary palm]

Princess Toadstool didn't even had time to realize she was abducted.

[weary palm]

Awesome!

some older tases are made for less accurate emulators so they desync. if i remember correctly.

that was the annoying part. finding tases that were "console verified".

[woeful grove]

yes

most of them were made for fceux

which isnt super accurate

newer ones are made for bizhawk which is a lot better

[weary palm]

i'll keep that in mind

[woeful grove]

https://youtu.be/oYjYmSniQyM?t=761

this little video kind of spurred some things

neshawk

bizhawk?

[weary palm]

doesn't nintendo know that emulation is bad?

[woeful grove]

maybe

[weary palm]

oh wow. nesticle 5/125. a miracle that it played most games i threw at it.

[zinc dew]

It just demonstrate that passing these tests isn’t really the important for enjoying the games.

[woeful grove]

it takes surprisingly poor scores to be a functional (somewhat) emulator

[zinc dew]

It’s more of a scientific curiosity than any actual application.

[woeful grove]

kevtris's nes core got a 93

[weary palm]

the one used in Analogue mini or whatsitcalled?

[woeful grove]

83 sorry

that's nt mini noir

[weary palm]

long since i heard anything about him

i feel like we're in the wrong channel xD

[woeful grove]

yes

sorry

[zinc dew]

YEAH KEEP ON TOPIC!!!!

[weary palm]

KEEP THE SILENCE!

[woeful grove]

Robby how many times have I told you to stop derailing topics?

[zinc dew]

[woeful grove]

You're going to have to ship up or shape out, mister!

[weary palm]

robby has a condition

[worn delta]

Oh, for some reason I thought you could run tas files off of flash carts for NES and SNES, but I really know very little about it

[green epoch]

MiSTer* stay on brand

[slow silo]

Huh, are links to archive not allowed here? Posted a link to an archive of Nintendo's old legal page

[zinc dew]

They aren’t bo, but I can post that link for you and take credit

[slow silo]

Har har 😛 Can you see the deleted message?

[zinc dew]

Look at this cool link I found to an archive of Nintendo’s old legal page - https://web.archive.org/web/20191218012228/http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

I found it, it was me

[weary palm]

pats on head

[slow silo]

But yeah, like I was saying, it looked like it was written less by a lawyer and more by some Nintendo fanboy decrying emulators. It was up from like, I think 2009 to 2020 or 2021 where they finally changed it to look more professonal

[slow silo]

^ And it was in reply to this

[weary palm]

what kind of law denies a user to make copies of something they own for own consumption?

[slow silo]

The DMCA for one, technically you are not allowed in most cases to make a copy even if you are legally entitled to do so if you have to break DRM to do it

[weary palm]

it's a bit strange to me.

i don't see the harm.

[slow silo]

The harm is to the multi-trillion dollar corporation's bottom line if it makes it harder to re-sell you things you already bought or to stop reselling of stuff they already sold

[weary palm]

why would i buy a second copy of a game i own

[slow silo]

It breaks, it's on a different platform, they disabled it somehow....

[weary palm]

the percentage of people who do that must be negligable.

[slow silo]

You would be surprised

[weary palm]

fuck capitalism. 🤣

[slow silo]

"Oh, your cd/cart of that game broke? Too bad, buy another. NO YOU CANNOT MAKE A BACKUP! That's illegal because...because we literally said so!"

[weary palm]

should be illegal to play games at a friends house. millions of "potential" monies gone.

[slow silo]

The only reason it's not illegal is because there is no real way to enforce it, they are already trying to do something like that with streaming by limiting accounts even at the same household

[weary palm]

perhaps that's why they make so much money on handhalds

[slow silo]

Nah, those have the "make the same game, but make two copies with some content locked out on each" scam, a.k.a. pokemon

Honestly, the game card thing nintendo added is almost shocking that they are letting you do it, considering how much everyone else wants to do the opposite

[weary palm]

imagine taking a picture of a nice house or car. i can enjoy it without paying a dime! the car salesmen lose quadrilions!

making the worst anolgies

[zinc dew]

I honestly don’t think that was intended to scam anyone. It was built to encourage trading amongst kids.

Adults who felt they had to buy two copies probably felt like they were being taken advantage of but that was their choice to not play the game with friends.

So I get that perspective. It would be annoying if I wanted to be a completionist.

[slow silo]

I've got some bad news for those people that argue I wouldn't download a car... https://i.imgur.com/VmJR1oC.jpg

[waxen oyster]

I don't think it was a 'scam' persay, but I really think they knew exactly what they were doing with the double dipping potential. Nintendo has done it with Fire Emblem, Zelda Oracle games, on top of trying to sell old games on their new platform to consumers who already owned them digitally on the previous platform.

[weary palm]

i like the trend with surprise bags right now. like labubu. kids need to learn to gamble at an early age.

i lied. i hate it.

[zinc dew]

I think originally the intent was genuine. At least I’d like to think so.

[slow silo]

Fake casiones and slot machines in games that in no way whatsoever use real money and only use in-game currency are banned.... things that use actual money like loot boxes and gachas are not....

[zinc dew]

I don’t know about Fire Emblem, genuinely not familiar with it, but I loved the whole dual game Oracle thing.

[weary palm]

https://tenor.com/view/melken-marco-kraats-milking-gif-13621530

[slow silo]

The Oracle games are two full seperate games that let you link data to do a final combined boss, not really the same thing as how Pokemon does it

[zinc dew]

I really liked those games

[slow silo]

Yeah, I finally played them like 3 years ago XD

[waxen oyster]

They're separate games, but you can only get the true ending by playing both

And I did love them

[slow silo]

Yeah, but they are still full games, Pokemon is the same game with a handful of different on-rom content locked out on each

The current ones have a few other differences these days, but it's still mostly the same thing

[zinc dew]

I think with how easy it is to trade online it’s kind of silly to keep the dual copies thing going

but I guess it still encourages trading

[weary palm]

it adds a scary social element to the game... unless you buy both.

[waxen oyster]

I would agree that Nintendo definitely seemed more pro-consumer when those games came out. It's easy, in retrospect, to look at those games and try to apply modern critique to past decisions. But just because B came after A doesn't mean they're connected or that they were done for the same reasons.

[weary palm]

has bowser quit his job now?

[slow silo]

That's probably why they started changing a few other things, but even with that, you are unlikely to have all of them at once without giveaways, becaus nobody would give up the version legendaries for something common

[slow silo]

But then you also need two systems

[zinc dew]

Oh truuuue

[slow silo]

Oh, guess with Pokemon Home you can trade with just one system

[weary palm]

you don't have to "catch them all" 😂

it's a lie

[zinc dew]

lol like the only way to get Jirachi was to preorder a game at GameStop that came with a bonus disc that required you to have both a GameCube and the GB link cable adapter

something like that

[slow silo]

You can't anymore anyway

[slow silo]

What about the original way to get mew?

[zinc dew]

Oh I don’t remember, was that bad?

[slow silo]

You had to win a contest, I think there was like, 10 winners? maybe 100? And then you mail them your cart, and it gets mailed back with a mew

[weary palm]

In Sweden you could mail it to our main distributor of video games, "Bergsala AB". You got it back with a Mew on it.

[slow silo]

Did you see that guy who made a "virus" for Pokemon Red/Blue?

[weary palm]

oh no. now i'm asscociating "mew" with some treny jaw exercise...

how cursed.

[slow silo]

No, cursed are the original sprites for the Japanese versions of Pokemon

[weary palm]

i think they're funny

[slow silo]

At least that trend of making them THREE games died fast

[slow silo]

Cursed

[weary palm]

Mew and Mewmore

[viral portal]

Fast how?

[slow silo]

As in before Gen 1 even came out in the US

Pokemon originally had a Red, Blue, and Green in Japan, when it came out in the US it was consolidated into just Red and Blue, and it's been that way ever since

[viral portal]

I thought they had Red and Green and released a Blue later

It was 8 months later, haha

[slow silo]

Is that the original blue or a re-release?

The original Japanese versions were on 512KB carts, the US versions were on 1MB carts with many enhancements

I don't recall if the US versions got re-released in Japan

[viral portal]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_games_by_release_date
Just looking here

[slow silo]

Seems like Pokemon Blue in Japan was possibly the US version?

[viral portal]

Probably so

[lone geyser]

They used the updated code from Blue(J) but the exclusive lists from Red(J)/Green

(Also the updated sprites, which were overhauled AGAIN for Yellow)

[bright lotus]

Just curious

Can you actually get good framerate using high res mode in Castlevania Legacy of Dorkness in 80mhz core?

[latent dagger]

Yes

[bright lotus]

Sweet

[latent dagger]

https://youtu.be/MSYnhD9-REQ?si=RG8coY-cm4WyRsPM&t=840s

[bright lotus]

Cool, but owie, it's 480i

[latent dagger]

He shows the most basic example for the how smooth it's running here. I've played it though and can confirm it runs good

[latent dagger]

Well yeah. That's what's high res is on a CRT lol. The alternative is 240p

But you can enable 480p mode in the osd if you're playing on a modern display

Then enable the high res mode

It "should" just work

(I play on a CRT so I don't do that)

[bright lotus]

Where is that

I don't think I am seeing it

On the current turbo core anyway

Did you mean Video Out > Clean HDMI?

[latent dagger]

yes

sorry. forgot it's not called 480p like on PSX

[bright lotus]

It's a bit of a dithered compromise but sure, thanks

[woven olive]

Cleaning out my SD card. Are there any lingering roms that still need to be patched to run on the core?

[mint shadow]

No, everything is patched automatically by the core at runtime. Patched roms are not required.

[woven olive]

Perfect. I haven't updated my games on this card since before a public release.

Zipped roms work now too, correct?

[mint shadow]

I believe so, yes

[hasty musk]

n64 turbo core via update all ?

[broken creek]

There should be an option in Update All to pull turbo cores.

[dry oak]

Is that alt cores?

[zinc dew]

Yes

[verbal urchin]

dude I don’t trust saving in this core

It’s a me issue for sure but there’s time where i forgot to click on the OSD, and it didn’t save 💀

[zinc dew]

What I recommend is to get into the habit of exiting to the main menu every time you’re done playing. Just always quit back to the main menu like it’s required.

[latent dagger]

I was literally about to say the same thing. Get in the habit of soft resetting the system back to main from the OSD whenever you're done for the day

No different than how you quit your games on PC and such before putting the system to sleep or shutting down

[mellow raft]

Honestly a better habit is pressing it whenever you pause. Helps you save a lot of time and then it just honestly becomes muscle memory and you don't even think of it anymore

Technically you can use it as a pause if the core supports pausing when the osd is up

[latent dagger]

Ok but, that doesn't help you save your pak if you save your game then turn around and just unplug or press the reset/power switch on your MiSTer

[mellow raft]

Oh... Pak saves

I see

[latent dagger]

Yeah, the method 90% of games used on the N64 lol

[mellow raft]

Well... Not most the good ones anyway

🤣

I legit somehow grew up with an N64 and never played a game that needed one lol

[latent dagger]

It's better to just open OSD and reset cuz it covers all your bases and ensures a save right as you're done so you don't miss any potential progress with your cart saves either

Saving every time you pause or just periodically helps if you are prone to losing power in your place a lot though.

[magic girder]

On the PSX where saving is an affirmative action, I open the OSD as soon as I save - can’t remember how it is on N64 games, but I also open it regularly and before turning off. I don’t go to the main menu, but I treat opening the OSD as if it’s preparing the machine to turn off 🙂

[amber fjord]

People turn their Mister’s off? My stays on 24/7 behind tv

[magic girder]

https://tenor.com/view/greta-climate-brat-how-dare-gif-15135262

[little socket]

people who leave their mister on 24/7 most likely do it with other things as well, so the sum of the negligible low draw is not that low anymore.
Then again here it is 35 ct/kWh

[lament escarp]

I turn my shit off when I don't use it. If you're having an issue with savedata getting lost just return to main menu before you turn it off. I also have the habbit of hitting the osd button on the mister before turning it off.

[magic girder]

It’s also worth saying that you probably need to make sure autosave is enabled (and save your core settings if changing that) so that “open OSD” is all you need

But yeah, it catches everyone out exactly once when we first get the MiSTer, and then we learn

[blazing knot]

It’s a right of passage

[lament escarp]

Happened to me on the first day of having my mister. 2 hours of breath of fire kaputt.

[magic girder]

And now you’re one of the biggest MiSTer apologists there is!

[lament escarp]

*cultists

[magic girder]

#NotACult

MiSTer did you a favour - you got to experience those two hours twice

[cunning cradle]

Lunar for me. Rough learning lesson that happened again shortly after on a different core. I then realized I needed autosave set on all of them lol.

[lament escarp]

I have an everdrive gbx3 which also requires you to hit the reset button before you turn it off to write the savegame to the sd card. Sounds annoying but I'm used to it from mister and it doesn't require a battery therefore, so it cuts down on maintenance.

[abstract slate]

https://bsky.app/profile/mrtalida.bsky.social/post/3m2zewdypx22s

MrTalida (@mrtalida.bsky.social)

I've extracted the 3D models for all 145 NPCs that exist in the Quest 64 ROM data, and I've put them into a tidy little .zip file of named .fbx models with their memory addresses labeled!

Just the geo for now; hopefully animations & textures in the future.

Grab it here: archive.org/details/Ques...

Bluesky · Oct 12, 2025, 6:57 PM

[neat sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-park-scientist-gif-23592987

[slow silo]

Time to 3D Print them and have a Quest64 Chess Set 🙂

[mellow raft]

This scene has so much more meaning now that we did actually bring back a dead breed of wolf

[neat sierra]

Pissfingers

[slender hawk]

‎ 🎩

🧿👄🧿 ✨
‎ 🫴

[green epoch]

I sometimes say his name like peter gabriel sings the chorus of slegdehammer

probably just me tho

[amber fjord]

When you have a home lab server rack, a mister doesn’t add much to the always on bill haha

[blazing knot]

Unless your rack is full of misters 🤔

[worn delta]

Wow, that's really cool, I didn't realise that was possible. Has anyone done this for the Zeldas? That would be really nice to have models of all those characters

[abstract slate]

That would be great. People would have a fun time painting them too.

[quaint otter]

Any of y'all ever transfer a save from ares' n64 core to mister's n64 core? I've tried a few ways but nothing's worked so far.

[slow silo]

Not sure if I have gone ares to mister, but I have done the reverse

There is that online save converter that can help, but I recall I have had to use a hex editor sometimes to convert saves, usually for Bizhawk

https://savefileconverter.com/#/mister

[quaint otter]

Yeah I gave that a go on a couple games but it didn't work. No idea if it's user error or if it won't work and I'll have to bust out the hex editor

[slow silo]

N64 can be a bit of a mess because on top of memory cards there was like 4 or so different ways games could save to cart

[lean spruce]

I might rememeber this wrong but I think Robert have made the save file combined for savepak and cartridge save. Maybe thats why. I could be wrong and confusing this with another core...

[quaint otter]

The saves I was trying to transfer from ares were the same size as what's on the mister, so I don't think so

[lean spruce]

#1096015979055697940 message

this is what I remember but maybe Robert should clarify because it could have changed later 😅

[weary palm]

It was like that before. Concatenated. But I made changes in MiSTer main that split the data into eep/srm/mpk files etc. Long time ago.

[lean spruce]

Do you know why ares saves don’t work in the core?

[weary palm]

Which kind? All of them?

Allihopa ellör??

Send me the save file and I'll look

[wanton sun]

if they are same size, it's probably big/little endian swap that is needed. Sorry, can't point you to a tool that can do that right now

if you are able to run something like python or so, AI can easly generate a script that does that

[quaint otter]

roger, I'll check

[quick arch]

@weary palm if you have time could please merge my PR for N64 database i have opened some weeks ago ?

[weary palm]

I don't want to add that because it will break the "Advanced Homebrew ROM Header" functionally.
"ED" is a special case used for many ROM hacks and such. If you want you check byte 0x3f and check that bit 4-7 is equal to 3, 256kbits (32kbyte). Maybe it's the header, maybe it's my header parser. I hope you understand. 🤓

https://n64.miraheze.org/wiki/ROM_Header

...or what was the issue with this particular ROM?

[quick arch]

it is based on SM64 rom and some new memory settings are required to save and also rumblepack

[digital remnant]

https://fxtwitter.com/modretro/status/1978624889721417828

ModRetro (@modretro)

One year ago, we debuted the first playable Chromatic at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo.
︀︀
︀︀This year, we’re returning with the first playable M64.
︀︀
︀︀Come plug in the memories with us at booth 601.

**💬 28 🔁 106 ❤️ 400 👁️ 38.6K **

FxTwitter · Oct 16, 2025, 12:51 AM

i hope someone will provide footage 😄

[dry oak]

I wonder why it was called M64? U64 would have been cool

[vapid hawk]

M for modretro

[dry oak]

Ah how did I miss it 🫣

[plush summit]

Just announce the DD implementation and make the 3D obselete

[digital remnant]

why didnt they rename their company to Uodretro instead 🙁

[digital remnant]

i mean every n64 console can do it via summercart64 emulation, so not much to gain

compatiblity to connect a original 64DD would be awesome though! 🙂 but no mention of that at all and you would need the expansion port for that

[lament escarp]

I'm more interested in whether they will publish Games like they did for the chromatic.

[iron wren]

Father 3 as an homage to the cancelled n64 mother 3?

[unreal sundial]

#fpga-platforms message (I tried finding this but didn't easily)

[lament escarp]

This would be so sick.

Though my understanding is the game boy homebrew community is somewhat stronger than the n64 side?

[weary palm]

The header should contain these settings.

[quick arch]

Ok thank you I will close my PR !

[digital remnant]

would be awesome!

but developing gameboy games is like 100x easier than n64 unfortunately

[plush summit]

fair, but the whole point of the core (for MiSTer anyways) is to not rely on extra hardware

[digital remnant]

can the mister n64 core can play 64dd? i thought it couldnt (except conversions)

[plush summit]

not intentionally no, but the door is always open in the future

[digital remnant]

https://www.analogue.co/announcements/analogue3d-october-16th-update

Analogue is a joke

fpgazumspass please save us

[mossy briar]

This is the worst Oct 16 announcement in the history of the company, yeah?

[digital remnant]

yes

they didnt even release firmware updates to rename AnalogueOS to analogueos

[mossy briar]

Well at least ModRetro celebrated by revealing the M64.

[digital remnant]

i hope they didnt, looks kinda strange tbh 😄

what are these buttons supposed to be

and can you insert a controller pack behind the cartridge slot??

[zenith notch]

Buttons are likely power on and reset, the other slot for an expansion pack.

[plush summit]

Why need an expansion pak? its built into the core

[digital remnant]

yeah that would make no sense at all, except for a gimmick. its just 4mb ram versus 8mb

[zenith notch]

Well, thats very likely what it's for.

[digital remnant]

sure, but what kind of buttons are these supposed to be? these are huge and dont resemble the original ones

[zenith notch]

So it's not their intent to resemble the original ones, but still
provide the same functionality.

[iron wren]

They’ll allegedly have a hands-on working model at the Portland retro game con, wish I could go

[latent dagger]

@zinc dew can we delete this please thanks 🙏

Unless I'm mistaken and these are not ROMS

But better safe than sorry

[zinc dew]

Hey friend, I know you meant no harm but please no posting of copyrighted materials in this Discord.

[quaint otter]

are saves copyrighted?

[zinc dew]

Uhhhhh

Yes

I’m on my phone I can’t access save files lol

[quaint otter]

oh lol, you're good

[hushed nova]

see what happens when you listen to users, Robby?

[latent dagger]

Saves are also comprised of copyrighted code unfortunately.
Save states are fine though

[zinc dew]

Yeah sorry about that lol

[latent dagger]

But I didn't type fast enough to question whether or not that were ROMs. It looked like ROMs to me

[quaint otter]

I looked at them in a hex editor if anyone's curious btw, I'm like 90% sure it's just endianness. Haven't tried putting them back on the mister yet

[latent dagger]

Trying to cross over saves is always a pain lol

[vapid hawk]

We’ve never treated saves as copyright material on here

[latent dagger]

I used to do it going between emulator and PSP back in the day and even that was annoying despite being far more doable

[quaint otter]

knowing nintendo's litigation practices I wouldn't be surprised if they've tried to sue someone over save collections lmao

[latent dagger]

I give it another 10 years at most before all these game companies change their tune because everything comes back to blow up in their faces

[quaint otter]

so for oot, it was just a simple endianness fix. Not for doubutsu no mori though... no idea what's going on, I'll have to keep digging

[weary palm]

Save file trouble?

[quaint otter]

yeah, trying to get ares-> mister

I included a save with very little progress from mister to help diagnose what's going on

[latent dagger]

Can't you just cross over the save state instead?

I thought that was a workaround for things. To load the save state instead then save that to virtual on the core

[quaint otter]

huh, didn't think about that. I'll try

[latent dagger]

Unless I'm mistaken and N64 core doesn't have save states..

God I need to just turn on my MiSTer and re-familiarize myself with things

[wanton sun]

Save states probably contain more legal critical stuff than saves.
It contains the whole RAM which often has assets loaded into it

[latent dagger]

Makes sense

[wanton sun]

But then screenshots and videos are also critical

[quaint otter]

nintendo's stance on gameplay footage is wild to me

[lament escarp]

Is there anything about gaming that's legal?

[latent dagger]

Nope

You don't even own your games anymore

[weary palm]

Is it the vanilla rom or english patched

I own games. I have Yahtzee.

[latent dagger]

I've got Nightmare Before Christmas Monopoly

[quaint otter]

it's vanilla

[latent dagger]

I want a donut now.

[quaint otter]

me too, man

[iron wren]

In 2040 we will only be able to pay for games, but never play or look at them

[latent dagger]

Nice. The steam library collection process perfected

[quaint otter]

I generally buy stuff from gog nowadays for that reason

[cunning cradle]

Same, but then I don’t play those games either.

[quaint otter]

tell me about it, silksong has been left 30% finished since day 2 after launch

[latent dagger]

That's cuz MiSTer is more interesting

[weary palm]

Is the. flash file the original ares file?

[quaint otter]

.pak and .flash are from ares

I'll double check that I didn't mix anything up accidentally

nah it's correct we're good

[weary palm]

the .fla and the .flash was identical. no problem.

[quaint otter]

yeah that's what I found too, with the pak as well

but when I rename them and drop them on the mister, nothing

[mossy vector]

It matters when you copy over the file.

I'm probably over explaining, but it would read the save file when the ROM is loaded. And it would write the file every time the OSD menu is opened with autosave on.

[quaint otter]

I'm pretty sure I accounted for that, but I'll double check

nope, I don't think that's it

[bright lotus]

Didn't work on either bigendian or byteswapped roms

[quaint otter]

I think I know what I did

I think maybe I saved the mister save wrong in that zip

sorry I've been renaming files all morning it must've gotten mixed up

[bright lotus]

Do you have to buy a bed to save progress?

[quaint otter]

It takes a minute, you have to greet all the villagers

I'll just go ahead and do it again on the mister so I'm sure it's the right one this time

[weary palm]

i managed to load the save file @quaint otter

that dog is complaining about the real time clock, i think. but if you set the time the file loads. it's a simple endianness swap.

Totakeke 😅

[bright lotus]

Were clocks already set when game was produced?

[weary palm]

OH NO! That Resetti got mad at me because of this issue!!

[quaint otter]

thanks for all your help man, sorry about that mixup

[bright lotus]

I thought that was a req to fill out current date and time

[quaint otter]

it's always a dumb error you make early on that ruins all your troubleshooting fr

[weary palm]

He's going to kill me.

Ares saves RTC data to a file. We don't do this.

Is Animal Crossing the only game with a real-time clock?

[digital remnant]

Yes

And no support in the mister core for rtc

[weary palm]

not worth the effort

[quaint otter]

yeah it's not that hard to just change the clock each time

plus 99% of the mister community is eng speaking

[weary palm]

but there's an english patch i think

[languid dune]

You better not turn on your Switch 2!

[lament escarp]

[weary palm]

perhaps there a north korean console that is ok to game on.

[quaint otter]

If anyone else is searching through the chat logs months from now trying to convert their ares saves: everything looks like just an endianness swap, here's the perl script I used:

perl -0777 -pe 's/(.{4})/reverse $1/ges' $FILE_IN > $FILE_OUT

[quaint otter]

perl also gives me all kinds of ailments

but it is very good for this kind of thing lol

[weary palm]

gibberish.

but if it floats a boat, the boat is afloat.

[weary palm]

The header used in this hack doesn't have the controller type set in the header so perhaps we should add it to the database after all, but using a checksum instead. you had this approach first, right?

[quick arch]

yes I could use md5sum I will reopen the ticket and changes to use checksum!

[weary palm]

will you do for version 1.1?

[quick arch]

yes it is the last version of the hack

[weary palm]

you could add all of them if you want:
1.0 => 1ed9253297ba537b0c3f86824c59405b
1.0.1 => 01d211cec041905a4acd75822cee5cf1
1.0.2 => 5e333c7e24f119ff8f733d698e508407
1.1 => e541597c8e3eeeec81ae02e31eae77a8

we did that for portal

[quick arch]

thanks for getting md5sum for all versions 🙂

[weary palm]

np

that's what i do

they called me "the checksum kid" back in collage

[quaint otter]

man, $9 capture cards doing 480p60 yuy2 not terribly, what a time to be alive

[weary palm]

https://tenor.com/view/borat-borat-very-nice-verynice-thumbs-up-gif-17258096266802987535

@quaint otter are you from Japan?

[quaint otter]

Nope, just bilingual

[bright lotus]

Is it still outputting in mjpeg?

[weary palm]

mjpeg. i haven't heard of that codec since the cold war.

[bright lotus]

I've burned a couple of mjpeg dongles before getting an elgato

[weary palm]

i reopened the pull request @quick arch , so go ahead and add what you feel like. 😅

[quick arch]

yes tomorrow soon night time 🙂

[quaint otter]

nah it's yuy2. You can have it use mjpeg but it's noticeably worse

[bright lotus]

Oh, I forgot what yuy2 was

It's definitely better

[quaint otter]

here's a side-by-side. you can especially see it around the hearts (the top one's mjpeg)

the minimap also gets all kinds of messed up

[slow silo]

Ha! Jokes on you! I can't afford one!

[placid quiver]

Has anyone gotten the rumble to work on the 8bitdo modkit for an original controller with this core?

[latent dagger]

I think you're supposed to use the official adapter or something so you can put it in S (switch) mode and rumble works?

[pliant valve]

Also fan translations violate copyright, even if you only distribute the patch. Which a lot of people don't realize.

The text is copyrighted. The translated text is still copyrighted, and the patch contains it.

I would argue that a save state is fair use, same as copying it into memory in the first place is fair use. But you gotta tell the judge that.

[unreal sundial]

and laws differ, eg Japan is way stricter, I think they don't have fair use

[lament escarp]

So when I buy a console from Nintendo and a game from Nintendo it's technically still illegal but friendly Nintendo chooses not to press charges. For now. Did I get this right?

[pliant valve]

I don't know why it is legal to copy a program into memory in Japan. I assume it is.

Actually I'm not sure if temporary copies into RAM are legal as fair use or some other reason. The EFF has a document.

[lament escarp]

Would be fun if Nintendo HQ got raided by the police for facilitating all this crime.

[pliant valve]

https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/temporary_copies_fnl.pdf

[magic girder]

Isn’t the point about copying whether it’s authorised? Pretty sure Nintendo or others could easily argue that copying data into RAM through their own code/hardware is entirely authorised, but you taking dumps of that memory isn’t

Just in the same way that a manufacturer making the original copies isn’t going to get sued

[lament escarp]

Imagine taking copyrighted dumps.

[magic girder]

I guess yours are free use?

[blazing knot]

TMI take that to #1327740812951289990

[lament escarp]

I did.

[plush summit]

@cerulean elk screenshot credit where its due

[cerulean elk]

the best mario

[mellow terrace]

Without Robert, we’d have no “No Face Mario” or “Three Eyed Pikachu”. 🐐

In all seriousness, it was so much fun following along as he developed the N64 core and hit various milestones

[lament escarp]

I liked it best when people popped in this thread and asked what we're doing since they had heard that N64 is utterly impossible on mister and we told them we're just roleplaying that there is an N64 core for the fun of it. 😅

[woven olive]

I swear I've recently read comments of people saying that is is fake still and that they read in the discord it was an elaborate roleplay.

[lament escarp]

Omfg 🤣 we did it! We broke their brains! 😂

[turbid warren]

[green epoch]

The flip side to this is that the N64 broke people's brains in the other direction.

"The dreamcast isn't possible on the de10"
"That's what they said about the N64!!"

[lament escarp]

"A mans reach should exceed his grasp." I think there is always room for dreams and I'm convinced we could at least a DS core if we put some Potara earrings on Robert and SRG320.

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/buuSW.gif

[mellow terrace]

Dont forget the DS!!! 👀

[lament escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/believe-spongebob-gif-5640347

[mossy vector]

Good news. The beta 5 firmware 1.04 for the 8bitdo 64 Bluetooth gamepads finally fixes the initialization vibration problem. Basically in S mode it would shake on max intensity whenever the mister menu loaded, and when a core first loaded.

[green epoch]

that was the best part (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[slow silo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu-9Xi1uCh4

[digital remnant]

https://youtube.com/shorts/2x4Gt55-Zws

https://youtu.be/dp4cZviPmkk

In production to ship already

[latent dagger]

I love how we can never stay on topic in this channel lolol. Like we always end up just using it for everyting BUT talking about the core

I think it's neat it's open source and that you can develop/port other cores onto it so it can run more than just N64

[digital remnant]

I mean it shows 70% of the core right there 🤣

[neat sierra]

Roberts involved so I’m sure it will be perfect now there’s enough hardware to pull it off

But perfect N64 is still an N64 😜

But yeah if he ports his other cores to it may as well pick one up

[plush summit]

it would be hilarious if everyone randomly flocked to that board

[weary palm]

I'm excited for the M64.

[plush summit]

damnit, they really are pushing porting cores

kinda leaning onto picking one up

[green epoch]

What’s better than one next generation mister?

5 next generation misters

[plush summit]

well the early bird pricing is just an email, doesnt hurt to get in

[green epoch]

Oh I’m getting one. I need to complete the mister 2 infinity gauntlet

[tender pine]

Holy fcuk that 8bitjoystick guy is an annoying and ignorant piece of sh1t. Here he has Palmer Lucky talking the M64 and all he wants to do is interrupt and hear his own voice. Say what you will about Palmer Lucky - many do - but clearly before and listening to this short 'interview' he clearly knows his stuff. Very impressed.

[green epoch]

thank you for censoring shit

[neat sierra]

You’ll never collect mars & replay2 gems

[tepid shuttle]

this is pretty exciting. if it runs mister cores i'll definitely be in

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/HnrA.gif

[hushed nova]

"if it runs mister cores" stares at analogue pocket

[weary palm]

They're pretty good at interrupting each other, if you ask me.

[hushed nova]

a slightly annoying interview -> what an ignorant piece of shit. lol

[weary palm]

That's how it works, don't you know that? Bad interviewing skills = horrible person.

[neat sierra]

It’s old man Mario, we should show him some slack for all he’s done for the mushroom kingdom

[tepid shuttle]

i don't watch many interviews, but i didn't think it was that bad for an off the cuff thing

[tender pine]

I think Lucky Palmer was just eager to talk about this products and length. The interviewer had he any social skills should have just allowed it, not constantly wanting to butt-in with a trite question.

[magic girder]

Leaning more and more into picking one up

[lament escarp]

Because of the 4k?

[magic girder]

No. I don’t even own a… oh, wait

No, just the increased accuracy

[lament escarp]

I have an rt4k so my mister already does scale to perfect 4k.

[magic girder]

If I’m playing 240p games, I don’t care if they’re at 1080p or 4k really

[vapid hawk]

wonder if they'll do psx next

[magic girder]

That would be an obvious step 🙂

[tender pine]

M64 isn't 4K. I don't say that as a slight, it's just doesn't. 1080p 'only' to my knowledge. Personally I think 1080p is more than good enough and scales nicely on most 4K screens.

[lament escarp]

I didn't see the interview but Robert confirmed that it's 4k60 #fpga-platforms message

Also the 4k part is nice for filters and scanlines. The more pixels to work with the more accurate it can be.

[tender pine]

Don't get me wrong if and indeed it is native 4K that would be even better. Perfect even. Even the Analogue 3D however being advertised as 4K I always felt like maybe they meant upscaled as opposed to native.

Yeah 4K really lends it's hands to CRT filters and the like but I'm more into clean, sharp and essentially the rawest video output.

[lament escarp]

What would native 4k even be? Render the 3d parts in 4k? Would look like shit. I think clean upscale to 4k to allow for clean crt effects ect is the best use of the resolution.

[tender pine]

Native meaning no upscale tech like for example what your TV does when you send it a 1080p image. I didn't think what I said was anything less than clear.

Native meaning 4K. Not 1080, 1440 or 1800 for example. How you gonna take what I said and try and twist it??

[lament escarp]

Sorry, my bad. There is a lot of talk in gaming right now with native resolutions vs upscaled via pssr, dlss ect.

[magic girder]

I think you’re being a little aggressive here. I still don’t have any clue what you mean

[tender pine]

Wait. You guys related??

[lament escarp]

Yes, he is my sister.

[tender pine]

Mister sister more like it.

[magic girder]

The original console outputs at something like 240p - so if you’re outputting at 4k, it has to be upscaled

[pliant valve]

Are you... chicken?

[magic girder]

Unless you’re rendering at 4k, which is exactly what @lament escarp said

[lament escarp]

Don't argue with the man on the internet, Mom will get mad again!

[tender pine]

Yes. Obviously. Clearly. Like with MiSTer. Outputting at 1080p and resolutions round about it. That however is why scalers such as the Tink 4K and Pixel Morph exist, to reach that clean native 4K.

[magic girder]

You know what those devices do?… upscale

[tender pine]

IF both Analogue 3D and Modretro are doing that without the need for external scalers...all the better.

[magic girder]

That’s what they are both saying they do

[tender pine]

That was my point. That was so obviously my point.

[magic girder]

Upscaling internally so you don’t need an external scalar

[tender pine]

Yes. Outputting a native 4K image. It again as I need to keep repeating, native 4K.

Round and round and round we go...

Like a UHD film in comparison with a Blu-ray.

[magic girder]

The difference is what the output resolution is, that’s all

[tender pine]

Yes. Yes. Yes. That's what I have precisely been saying from the get go. You for some unknown reason have tried twisting it into I was saying something different or indeed didn't understand what I was getting into.

[magic girder]

I haven’t twisted anything

[tender pine]

You have a way of taking a perfectly obvious statement and reading it as something else. Congratulations.

Precisely.

[tawdry marsh]

Y'all so cranky.
If you wanted to explain what you mean you might have said the difference is what resolution the signal post-processing (filters, scanlines etc) is performed at.

Obviously the console output will need to be up scaled to 1080p, 4K etc, but if you're viewing on a 4K screen and you are rendering at directly rendering in 4K then the additional pixels used during post-processing might yield a tangible benefit that you wouldn't get if the internal resolution was lower.

[worn delta]

Just cool it guys, this isn't worth getting heated over.

Keep it civil.

[tender pine]

Mr mediator. Thank you.

[little socket]

congratulations, you summoned a wall of text

[worn delta]

The end issues for most people likely comes down to how good their 4K TV is at scaling from 1080p to 2160p (4K). That is going to vary from TV to TV. We are making an assumption that the scaler inside the unit, be it Tink, Morph, M64, 3D64, whatever is going to do a better job at scaling from 1080p to 2160p than all TVs. That is obviously a complete unknown and will vary from device to device and TV to TV.

It seems likely that these devices probably do a good job on that last step of scaling, but again, on your home set up... You will have to find out yourself.

It does seem a truism that lag could be added by TVs upscaling a 1080p signal over it being done inside the device, but again, who knows and will vary between devices and TVs.

The one clear benefit seems to be around scanlines, for people who use those.

In short, I am not losing sleep over the 4K output thing. So many variables and unknowns.

[lament escarp]

I would like to add that you usually use direct video with an external scaler on mister, so you scale directly from 240p to 4k and avoid any weirdness due to double scaling from 240p->1080p->4k.

[worn delta]

That being said, if Robby wants to send me the Morph that they sent him he can't stop reminding us about, I would t say no. 😉

[lament escarp]

I would send the the rt4k I spent a lot of money on but I spent a lot of money on it so I won't.

[worn delta]

I am still using my old Framemeister with my newish 4K TV, and for all I use it for, it seems fine. Maybe one day I will upgrade to something newer that outputs 4K and makes it redundant, but not any time soon I suspect.

[lament escarp]

Afaik the only thing the framemeister kinda shits the bed on us switching from 480i ->240p and back.

[magic girder]

That’s upscaling though. It’s not native! 🙄

[lament escarp]

Pls start punching each other or stop bringing it up.

[little socket]

Indeed, over all the available reasons to escalate, you chose 4k

[magic girder]

Ultimately we’ll just wait and see what the devices do when they come out. I’m going to guess based on “4k output”, that it’s internally scaling to 4k and then applying filters etc - basically equivalent to a MiSTer on DV mode + a rt4k built in

[magic girder]

Did you miss the great VRR and OLED wars during the Switch 2 release?

We take our pixels very seriously in these parts

[little socket]

Nope, but those are generic(ish)

But I guess the other available options might be too spicy

[magic girder]

Too spicy? Like PAL?

[little socket]

Almost, POL(itics)

but I sense a wall approaching, so lets keep it at that

[worn delta]

On the native/no-native 4K discussion: if we are talking about films as an example, if something was filmed in 1080p or 2K, then is released on 4K UHD then that is not considered native 4K, it is an upscale. So by this standard, no old consoles can ever be "native 4K". The N64 is native 240p/480i

[lament escarp]

That's what I meant by saying that you could only render the 3d parts in native 4k, as some emulators can and it looks bad.

[magic girder]

Bad here is probably a matter of personal taste, but I agree

I think increasing the rendering resolution probably starts to look good during the Dreamcast/PS2 era onwards

But for the MiSTer supportable consoles, I’d rather have the original resolutions. Too much mixing with 2D art at that time

[worn delta]

So for example, anyone who recently bought the UHD discs of Tron and Tron Legacy, the original Tron was filmed on film and scanned at like 8K, so that 4K disc is native 4K. However, Tron Legacy was filmed on 1080p and then effects finished in 2K, so that UHD is not native 4K, it is an upscale.

Although I guess you could argue that Tron is a downscale, but that seems silly

Anyhow, you get my point

[little socket]

What if you replace the gpu with an enhanced revision which magically renders at sexdecuple the og resolution?

[lament escarp]

Tldr: the age of tube men is over, the time for scaler boys has come!

[magic girder]

That’s the Quirrin argument

[worn delta]

Then it isn't an n64

[lament escarp]

Who dat?

[magic girder]

Sorry, Chicken McNugget

Does anyone in here prefer playing N64 games at higher rendering resolutions?

[worn delta]

If you put a Ferrari engine inside a Lada, so it goes at 220mph, is it still a Lada?

[little socket]

But what if my uncle who worked at nintendo told me that they had such a revision and just did not release it because the plebs would not be able to afford it?

[lament escarp]

My uncle, Hans Miyamoto confirmed this.

[magic girder]

It’s an interesting thing to consider whether the devs would have preferred to render at higher resolutions if they could, or if they designed assets designed around the low resolutions. Kinda like the dithering/composite blend arguments

[lament escarp]

Death of the author also comes into play, who cares what the devs wanted?

[magic girder]

The gen after, you’d see more games ported to PC, so it wasn’t unusual for the console versions to look worse and the PC versions (at higher resolutions) to look better

[little socket]

more resolution > more computation needs > simpler modelling > work ends at 1pm

[lament escarp]

I think any resolution higher than 480p was a mistake.

[magic girder]

But look at e.g. MK64 if you increase the resolution. You end up with pixelated drivers on a very sharp track

[bright lotus]

Sharp grainy 240p line doubled to 4k is hella underrated concept and I prefer that over inconsistent sharp polys over pixelated UI

[magic girder]

I don’t think anyone will disagree with you on that

Maybe they will

It’s the internet 😄

[lament escarp]

I won't.

Time for Nuggies.

[magic girder]

McDonald’s or McQuirrin’s?

[little socket]

discounter's choice

[lament escarp]

It's not the best choice, it's the discounter's choice.

[lean spruce]

Hopefully we will get Woozles morph scaler IO board for mister.

[mossy vector]

It wouldn't be a N64 RDP anymore, but with a huge FPGA I have an idea for upscaling. The 3D triangles are drawn with a series of horizontal spans. Vertically the Y axis is stepped with 4 times the vertical screen resolution. This is normally for the Edge AA. Ultimately the widest span of the 4 is picked to set up a given line's span draw parameters.

With a new method, up to 4 parallel texture rasterizers could be tasked to draw the span instead of just one. Giving a 4x boost. So 240 x 4 becomes 960 vertical. Awareness of the top and bottom of the triangle would trigger only the relevant spans. Being closer to the internal precision, some drawing artifacts that high level emulation causes could be avoided.

The limitation is that 2D bitmaps like text or portraits would still be standard resolution because it's a separate kind of memory to memory copy function.

[cerulean elk]

McDowells or GTFO

[tepid shuttle]

i was never under the impression we would see higher rendering resolutions for games on any of the current or upcoming fpga n64 devices. that sort of thing seems better suited for software emulation