Nintendo 64

[zenith orchid]

I'm quite pleased with the shelf space the MiSTer saves me. I don't mind using actual hardware for gen 6 and beyond

[iron wren]

Iirc the only “big” issue in the commercial library is a very slight rendering difference in some circumstances and slight timing issues that can cause very minor desync in specific sections of a small number of games

[zenith orchid]

like cutscenes and whatnot?

[iron wren]

Yes, in a small handful of games

[zenith orchid]

i remember oot used to have an issue with cutscenes playing faster than the music

[iron wren]

(Similar to the desync those same games get on emulators that run the game without the hardware slowdown)

[zenith orchid]

ohh

cool thanks for letting me know

[candid panther]

It's the final cutscenes that has the biggest issue if I remember right, and its pretty minor

[topaz otter]

until someone make a Mister cluster that uses a bunch of misters in parallel

and calls it something dumb like the Mister Cluster Pi

[candid panther]

Virtual Boy for me

Once I get Wario Land VB in fgpa I'll be satisfied

Or, more satisfied

Mister is unbelievable value as it is

[tender pine]

Softmodded 'New' 3DS is the ultimate way to experience Virtual Boy.

[candid panther]

Yeah I've got one 😄

It's awesome indeed

[zenith orchid]

nice to know the biggest issues are pretty minor 😄

[topaz otter]

I've actually never considered playing them on that thing in 3D

[mortal panther]

I hadn't either. That's definitely something I need to check out. I still love my New 3DS XL.

[tender pine]

Anybody even remotely interested in Virtual Boy and has a 'New' 3DS sitting about gathering dust should if nothing else give it a whirl. Huge caveat here being when I did attempt this I was extremely nauseous and dizzy for a good few hours after. I realise I'm likely in the very, very small minority, but it's definitely worth noting.

[mortal panther]

So in other words, authentic experience to the original... without the headache? 🤣

[covert bough]

If you really want to get dizzy try it out the meta quest

[topaz otter]

do you really want to let wario into your brain like that

[marble cargo]

Obey Wario, DESTROY MARIO!

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/nintendo-hypno-wario-hypno-mario-mario-land-gif-22916321

[drowsy lantern]

I’ll only try the Meta Quest 64 🧙🏻‍♂️

[covert bough]

I’ve yet to try emulators on mine but that Batman pack-in game is cool even if it puts a pit in your stomach to glide off rooftops

[tender pine]

Me with my Intel DE10 Terasic Nano looking down my nose at those with clone boards...

[zinc dew]

They’re just looking up going “what, we can play the same shit”

[tender pine]

Nah. That's why @wanton sun had to go back into the N64 core and tweak it for those peasants.

From my ivory tower...

[north lagoon]

My N64 Core is 24.11.09 version. There is more recent build of the core?

[zinc dew]

Yeah it’s in the pins

But he responded with this - #1096015979055697940 message

So that change won’t be committed

[jolly turret]

I suggest to just grab the most recent stable build. The newest test core is not working as intended.

[stone pilot]

firing up SignalTap to flex on people

[topaz otter]

a tower made of mister addon boards stacked to the sky

[elfin depot]

Oh is PCXT fixed now?

[rapid condor]

hi can someone help me with a sync issue on a crt? CRT says display out of sync and i have it on vysync adjust 2 on the ini

[neat sierra]

What IO board and what vga_mode to what kind of CRT (consumer tv vs PC monitor) and what input?

analog output doesn’t use Vsync adjust

[rapid condor]

Here are my settings 1 sec

[neat sierra]

Unless you’re using the scaler which you shouldn’t be unless it’s a PC monitor

[rapid condor]

i got a samsung 763mb.

only cores its showing out of sync is psx and n64

[neat sierra]

So you’re always using the scaler

[rapid condor]

im using an HDMI-VGA adapter as to the monitor

[neat sierra]

Oh yeah got confused by vga scaler being on

You’re using direct video

With scandoubler enabled

[rapid condor]

yeh sorry, new to this too

[neat sierra]

Which doesn’t work with PSX & N64 cores

Because they can’t do naive scandoubling due to have many resolutions

[rapid condor]

gotcha, is there anything i can change to make it work?

[neat sierra]

So you’ll need to add overrides for those cores that disable scandoubler and enable the scaler

[rapid condor]

do you have a copy paste i can throw into my ini?

or how to do it lol

[neat sierra]

Trying to find an example

[n64]
forced_scandoubler=0
vga_scaler=1
video_mode=640,480,60,cvt
vscale_mode=1
vsync_adjust=1

Hmm

Though for you with direct video I’m not sure how vga scaler plays

Try it

[rapid condor]

will do 1 sec

[neat sierra]

All that block goes at the end of your ini

That example is more for normal analog out

Not direct video which does some super rez hackery to get the output out via hdmi

But maybe it obeys the vga scaler setting the same way when in dv

I don’t mess with dv much, pure analog only babeeee

Anyway good luck

[rapid condor]

didnt work :(. i will play around with it and see what i can find online. thank you!

[latent dagger]

Any particular reason you aren't just using an analog board?

[rapid condor]

i never bought one for my mister since i didnt think i would get into CRTs. Would this not be an issue if i had it?

[latent dagger]

Correct

You can set custom VGA scaler settings to your hearts content with the VGA analog output on an analog board

It doesn't get cranky like direct video through HDMI does

[rapid condor]

gotcha, where is the best place to buy those now in the US?

[latent dagger]

And if you are fine with the previous version of the analog board, you can find them pretty cheap on AliExpress

Otherwise people like taki udon sell an updated Pro board with VGA output (He's usually out of stock though lol, and I can't remember who else is making decent quality ones). And then for the US there's also MiSTer Addons version of a pro board as well that's a little bit more overbuilt and fancy and cost a bit more though

[rapid condor]

thank you

[latent dagger]

@rapid condor
MiSTer Addons version which uses a saturn cable he also sells is probably the most expensive version at $65 currently discounted to $50
https://misteraddons.com/products/mister-fpga-io-analog-pro

Taki-Udon board is $40 (Sold Out)
https://retroremake.co/products/mister-av-pro-v9-2

Previous v6.1 board for like $14 from China
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807038815770.html

Just note that the previous board doesn't do 24bit color output and only goes up to 18bit, however when it comes to things like the N64 and PS1, 24bit was only for things like FMVs anyways, but if you want to get close to the look of 24bit rendering you can grab one of the PWM builds which essentially do some trickery to make the 18bit output look almost like 24bit.

also note that as mentioned above you would need the din10 connector saturn cable to use with MiSTer Addons board which he sells for $35.
There are cheaper chineseum din10 saturn cables and you take your chances with those when it comes to quality.

[rapid condor]

yea im going to give that cheap one a try, im tight on funds

[latent dagger]

My MiSTer is an older stack that uses the older board and I personally have no issues with it lol

[rapid condor]

cool thats good to hear

[latent dagger]

like I said, 24bit output is the only thing it doesn't do which if you want to be authentic about it, neither did the consoles you can run on the thing with the exception of FMVs

which is resolved by using a PWM build

[jolly turret]

Where are you located? I could send you my v6.1 analog board if you pay for the shipping, it might just get too expensive if you are located in the US.

[rapid condor]

I'm in the US, sent you a Dm

[green epoch]

So here is a fun one: I turned off VBlanks on the n64 core and now it crashes main every time it loads?

seems cool

here is the CFG if anyone is bored. confirmed it's the culprit by deleting it, loading the core fine, putting it back, and then crashing main by opening the core again

[marble cargo]

It does that over direct video on the initial boot. The HDMI mode has similar problems.

You can get around this by booting a ROM and then turning off the blanks.

[green epoch]

Aha.

The more you know… thanks, as always @marble cargo

[hushed nova]

what the shit. it doesn't crash main for me, but the menu stops being rendered?

[marble cargo]

I've complained about this multiple times in this thread, and got ignored everytime. So I just gave up.

[green epoch]

thats what happened to me

I didn't see main was running anymore

maybe I missed it in the list

SAM can't load any other games

[hushed nova]

I can 'recover' by blind navigating to the menu and changing the setting

[green epoch]

weird that sam stops loading games

[vapid hawk]

it's because with no rom loaded n64 doesn't render aanything, not even a black screen

you can also workaround it by defining a default rom to always load iirc

[hushed nova]

with no rom loaded toggling that setting often sends...interesting vertical size calculations to main

like '25'

or '189'

[vapid hawk]

yeah

rob said it needed a stabilizer like on gb/gba you know? but there's hardly any room

[iron dove]

other folks are doing stuff, im just sitting here appreciating that a setting called 'fixed video blanks' fixed video being blank 🙂

its dual purpose

[hushed nova]

is there some rom out there that just renders a blank screen? almost would be worth distributing one as a default

[vapid hawk]

yeah - well its not a blank screen

there's that one with the rotating mister logo

https://github.com/uberyoji/mister-boot-roms

https://github.com/uberyoji/mister-boot-roms/blob/main/Images/N64.gif?raw=true

oh you have to use an mgl i guess to load it? bummer

[green epoch]

To autoload a rom, you need to name it boot.rom, yeah? so it won't work with anything with bioses

[hushed nova]

you can autoload boot1.rom etc. goes by the index I think

oh yeah, but it has two hmm. interestingly enough without a bios/pif the core crashes main

[wanton sun]

if someone takes care of the loading part, i can easily provide a rom that just shows a 240p black screen which we could autoload

Unfortunatly I cannot reset the VI with 240p settings, because some game might depend on them being "invalid" when they boot

[hushed nova]

hmm, unfortunately all the autoloading stuff like boot.rom/boot1.rom/boot2.rom etc comes into the cores with an index like i<<6

so it would require actual core changes

[wanton sun]

or special handling in main?

e.g. after downloading the boot roms from main, it could trigger to download a standard rom (called bootGame.rom) if it exists?

[hushed nova]

hmm yeah. if I can somehow keep it mostly contained in n64.cpp Sorg may not even question it!

[magic girder]

Sounds like the attitude my parents took to my untidy bedroom when I was a kid. As long as the door was closed they didn’t care

[vapid hawk]

i think that would be a cool feature on a bunch of cores tbh

like a nice standard way to do it that isn't hijacking the bios/bootrom path, just a default game to load per core

[green epoch]

I’d love that. I’ve always wanted to use the boot roms, but having to load the core via mgl sucked

[zinc dew]

It’s a good solution for cores that don’t present any video information on boot. Some cores pop the core menu, which is great, but a lot don’t, so including a fanmade “bios” screen is a big win there.

Plus @amber mica does a seriously fantastic job, professional even. So that would enable him to eliminate any MGL workarounds and let everyone enjoy his boot roms.

[candid panther]

Just played through the single player missions in the new Goldeneye X patch

Much harder than in Goldeneye

Better AI for the guards

Pretty different vibe gunning down hordes of guards in Silo as they beg for their lives and scream though...

[zinc dew]

wtf

[candid panther]

http://n64vault.com/pd-multi-levels:goldeneye-x

New version released last month

Has quite a few single player Goldeneye missions ported to perfect dark now

Works great on tuuuubro core

[zinc dew]

That’s cool, thanks for linking

[candid panther]

You can also now use all the perfect dark weapons in multiplayer unless I'm mistaken

[vapid hawk]

oh neat i hadn't heard it had single player content

[candid panther]

Yeah it's new, taken loads of work it looks like! 8 years since the last version

[vapid hawk]

very cool

[candid panther]

Only the missions with objectives are fully ported

[vapid hawk]

i guess the decomp helped?

[candid panther]

Pretty sure subdrag is involved in it

He's been the Goldeneye guru for decades, literally

[vapid hawk]

does goldeneye have missions without objectives?

[candid panther]

No

I remember when the hidden cheat unlock codes were first unveiled in a world first - sent into N64 Magazine in 2000 or so by Subdrag and Icemario

Pretty sure they used an action replay pro with the parallel port to debug and hack

[topaz otter]

This is how James Bond is in my fan fiction

Barbara broccoli still won't call me back

🙄

[twin barn]

i've had this happen like one time in a core randomly and never could reproduce it lmao

[green epoch]

Copy my cfg and you too could have it happen every time!

[amber mica]

This is indeed unfortunate 😭

[green epoch]

Maybe zakk will save us

[daring pike]

may I get more info on this ?
Context : I'm replaying all my pokemon games on original cartridge, and wondering whether I should stick to real hardware or my mister when it comes to pokemon stadium.
What exactly is the missing RTC for proper use of the transfer pak features of Pokemon stadium 2 (afaik, only mystery gifts could be concerned ?) Does that mean that Pokemon stadium 2 on the mister core cannot handle mystery gifts, or there is more to it ?

Looking at the pokemon stadium games PCB, it doesn't seem to be using any RTC (I see no battery on the motherboard)

[worn delta]

The missing RTC is for the GB carts

[vapid moat]

See my following tests:

#n64-dev message

#n64-dev message

But yeah, what moondandy said - RTC doesn't get updated from the Gen2 Carts to Pokemon Stadium 2 (mainly for Mystery Gift)

You can use Pokemon in battles and Kids Club and also edit your house, but playing the game on GB Tower is no go + Mystery Gift won't work at all after using it once

Pokemon Stadium 1 meanwhile is fine though - but I suggest sticking to Stadium 2 until some day when we get a new FPGA to finish the whole N64-core incase Robert ever wants to return doing so

[daring pike]

Not sure I got this correctly : is the N64 supposed to track the time by itself (using an internal RTC, since the Stadium 1 and 2 do not have an RTC onboard), or is the gameboy game dictating the RTC to Pokemon stadium 2 ?

[vapid moat]

Since you said there's no RTC on Stadium 2's boards, then it's definitely the latter

@wary lake

Can you give full verdict

[daring pike]

ok so you tried to get mystery gifts (and the poliwhirl clock looks wrong seemingly), and it never allowed you to get a new one after getting your first one ? with a real cartridge connected through SNAC + TP

[vapid moat]

[vapid moat]

Not through SNAC, instead through GB cartridge rom + saves support inside the N64-core itself

I wonder if someone else has tried with SNAC though regarding Pokemon Stadium 2 + Gen 2-cartridges

[daring pike]

ah I see, so it might still work if the real hardware is just limited to the N64 (+TP+real gameboy cartridge)

I can try it, I just need to buy the SNAC adapter for N64

[vapid moat]

I'm hunching it still won't work through them, since I'm feeling it's specifically about the N64-cartridge having any output method on reading the RTC from GBC

[daring pike]

I'm quite familiar with the RTC issues on gen 3 games, for gen 1 (if there is any, actually, I don't think so) and gen 2 though there shouldn't be any to my knowledge

[vapid moat]

Gen 3's RTC issues are different kinda beast tho - but yeah

[daring pike]

so unless if there is an emulation issue regarding the gameboy tower in stadium 2 (no RTC while playing through it?), or no RTC support in the gameboy core, I'm not sure where the issue you discovered could come from

do you happen to have a battery in your mister for RTC @vapid moat ? apparently it should be supported on the GBC core, not sure when playing through gameboy tower though (this could even be true on real hardware).

[vapid moat]

I'm using RTC through ethernet cable and tested through that few times

Also there was @chrome quest checking this out too IIRC

But as I said, @wanton sun knows best about this since they built this core

[daring pike]

I see, thanks for all the info

just to make sure, did you then play your gen 2 game through the GBC core before seeking a new mystery gift again, or did you solely played through gameboy tower through the N64 core ?

[chrome quest]

The N64 core has no RTC for Gen 2 at all. If you play a Gen 2 game through a GB core save with stadium 2, it will let you get one mystery gift alright, but will forever be stuck on that day as far as the N64 core sees it.
IIRC, I tried going back to the GB core and using the RTC cheat to change the Gen 2 game forward a day, but it made no difference. The N64 core can't get a day to progress

[daring pike]

really weird. N64 has no RTC to my knowledge. It should be carried by the game cartridges themselves. And to my knowledge only Animal Crossing (どうぶつの森) has one in the entire N64 library.

[chrome quest]

Just reading a little of the chat....
The N64 core not implementing any RTC is the issue. As noted above, if in real hardware the N64 cart has no RTC, then you'd almost think the core would not need it. But of course, in full emulation, it is also emulating the GB side of the TPak at the same time, hence the issue.
Also no GB Tower in the Gen 2 games in the core for the same reason

Not including SNAC that is. If you use SNAC, then you can play Gen 2 games with full compatibility. Get Mystery gifts each day, play the GB Tower in Gen2, all works fine with real carts and SNAC only.
Otherwise, thankfully it can get teams to come through from GB core saves, and you can speed up on the GB core.
All you really miss are; Mystery gifts from Stadium 2, Trading between TPaks

#n64-dev message

#n64-dev message

(Searched for 2 images only to find the 2nd was right under the first 🤦‍♂️ )

[daring pike]

ok, given what you say, that is the only hypothesis that makes sense to me :

• You played your pokemon gen 2 on the GBC core, RTC works as expected.
• You moved to Pokemon stadium 2, got a mystery gift using god knows which RTC (or the gameboy game's save's own RTC value, but that doesn't make sense to me) to assert whether you could receive a new one. Surely if you never received a mystery gift, it doesn't even check any RTC. There is no RTC going on on N64's/Stadium 2 side anyway afaik (excluding the Transfer pak).
• At this point, the only thing that makes sense to me to have such a bug is that the Transfer Pak emulation doesn't get the proper RTC, if that's even part of the Transfer Pak protocol. It could be returning the same RTC value to the N64 core everytime.
• [Optional] You move back to the GBC core, play again, RTC moves forward.
• You come back to the N64 core, attempt to get a mystery gift, but the N64 core, through TP emulation, still sees the same time has passed, ignoring the one in your save data (real hardware might just do this, in fact, I don't see why it would check for any RTC value in the save data as that simply won't work unless you re-save on your own game) so no new mystery gift

[chrome quest]

It's been a while if I get the particulars wrong, but the main point is that the N64 core does not have any RTC implemented for GB games. What does occur for experimentation is the N64 Stadium 2 game shows "a certain time" when you go to the mystery gift menu. I believe that time is always the same, as the core doesn't have RTC implemented. Robert might have a better idea of what happens, but ultimately it is a condition where the core does not have RTC implemented at all. What occurs is at least better than the game crashing!

[daring pike]

thanks for all the info, only thing that makes sense to me would be indeed that the TP emulation doesn't implement RTC properly. If TP isn't supposed to do that, I would be very curious to know how the the actual N64<->TP protocol works, or how Nintendo did it on original hardware. It **has ** to rely on the Transfer pak and then the game boy game's own RTC

[chrome quest]

I think the GB core time is already doing things off hardware to get RTC to work. GB core saves append normal GB saves with RTC data I believe. A save pulled from my GB cart is 32.0 KB. In the core they are 33.0 KB, so you can imagine to implement RTC in the core to align with the GB core, it would need to read that data from the save into the TPak implementation, and have RTC within the N64 core working with that data. I don't recall if the way main pulls GB saves gets the data. I think maybe it does, still needs the core to use the data though of course

[chrome quest]

Yeah, it does use the game boy RTC. I would mystery gift on hardware with 2 TPaks and the time will change when you go to each cart for a mystery gift, respecting the time of each GB game seperately

[daring pike]

I've read through github repositories that a lot of emulators just do that, indeed

[chrome quest]

Just checked online, you can see an example of time changing a whole day between carts in this video;
https://youtu.be/QMhf2h4f97U?si=9_GQhxUOWnYccg8L&t=93

[daring pike]

thanks a lot, now I wonder if I should go for a N64 snac adapter or real hardware for the time being (I already have an NTSC N64 + TP + N64 Everdrive, but although I mostly play my games in japanese, the pokemon games I'm doing right now are the french ones from my childhood, so it's PAL, so I need a PAL N64 to get the proper colors and not the gray scale output for PAL games on my NTSC N64...). The only advantage being that I could connect multiple transfer paks as you mentioned, it's not really related to any N64 core limitation actually

[chrome quest]

SNAC adapters are great, N64 one is not too expensive either

Also just in case I misunderstood your message, the N64 SNAC also gets around the multiple TPak issue, as somewhat uniquely the N64 SNAC can have all 4 ports in one adapter

[worn delta]

Just incase anyone is wondering why RTC isn't supported in the core for the Pokémon carts, it is simply that there isn't any room left. I imagine when the time comes for a successor board to the DE-10 Nano then the core will have it added then when space is no longer an issue.

[daring pike]

good catch, at this point we can safely assume it's a bug in the current virtual TP. From my understanding the TP is mostly free to access memory on the GB cartridge, that's how it fetches the RTC. Here, whatever is missing on the gameboy / TP emulation side related to the RTC side is causing the issue.

[chrome quest]

Exactly. Though as moondandy noted very importantly, it is not a bug so much as a full feature not implemented yet for reasons of space

[daring pike]

oh wow, that is great ! I guess I'm not buying a PAL N64 then.

[worn delta]

There are some other GB mappers that aren't supported in the core for the same reason that there isn't room left, but would presumably be easy to port over from the GB core if there was the space.

[manic basin]

https://youtu.be/UK9TIngf1pg?si=gYHIj4FHZD9z1oQg

Sadly, the core pops a lib dragon error on this game jam collection. But it looks really cool. 3rd place is very neat looking!

[worn delta]

Oh, I thought all of lib dragon was implemented?

[daring pike]

somehow when I load pokemon stadium, the controller 1 defaults to TransferPak despite me having set it to N64Pad or anything else (except snac which I didn't test). I always saved settings after changing the controllers configuration, and they do work, but as soon as I load pokemon stadium 1 or 2, it defaults to TransferPak for Controller 1

[green epoch]

I believe there is an auto detect pak option in the settings

[vapid moat]

Got back rn - so wait, SNAC takes care of TP RTC-related + GB Tower side-a things? Intriguing~

Maaybe I should consider getting it..

Also get this flash cart for TP-needs specifically

https://bennvenn.myshopify.com/products/mbc3000-rtc-gbc-cart-v4

[wanton sun]

the libdragon tests and games I tried work, but that doesn't mean that any must work. Each game can still do things that the core has trouble with

could also be that libdragon was updated and now does even more weird things than the previous version

[amber fjord]

Snac allows you to use real hardware transfer pak and gb(c) carts

And that being actual and hardware etc in cartridge works fine

Tested with pokemon crystal

(Also I still have the last few extra n64 Snac adapters I made on eBay)

[latent dagger]

I'm still debating whether or not I should go the route of an original controller, a cheap aftermarket controller that's "good enough", a cheap aftermarket then buying replacement parts to spruce it up, or a modern wireless option like the Saffun

I think I will ultimately be getting something like the saffun because eventually later this year I will get the superstation and when I do I think I will be selling off my MiSTer stack and I will lose out on SNAC.

[weary perch]

i have 2 saffuns and both of them developed problems. one doesn't seem to hold a charge properly anymore, the other one has some kind of input issue where things aren't detected properly. they are cheap and work great until they don't haha

hoping that 8bitdo 3d thing is decent

[latent dagger]

There's also a wired USB option that's cheaper lol.
I'm still pretty sure the "Saffun" is just the same no name branded mass produced controller everyone else is selling and they just throw their name on the box

[weary perch]

yeah whatever you want to call them, those things are not particularly reliable

[latent dagger]

and I could probably save some money by getting one of the other ones that isn't sold by Saffun

[tender pine]

I'm always baffled how much emphasis, time and effort is made talking 'Saffun' controllers. It's not a particular great controller, particularly when you can pick up a NSO one for next to the same price and get a far, far more 1:1 experience under far better quality control. Even then I'd easily recommend picking up a used OEM controller before a Saffun. Many still exist on eBay and the like still with good sticks. Don't fall for the notion anything other than a new stick isn't going to get you good results.

[green epoch]

Don’t need a Nintendo switch online sub for the saffun controller

[latent dagger]

I just picked up a Nintendo 64 snack adapter and a couple of official controllers. Wasn't able to test them, but everything about them felt really good and the sticks are in really great condition too. Only the slightest bit of looseness and not enough that I think is going to actually be a problem at all. I'm almost home though, and I'll be able to properly test them then.

[latent dagger]

One of the two is insanely good.
The other one seems functional but I could feel it a little bit that I need to open it up and clean it and relube it. Gonna do it for both regardless

I paid $30 for the two of them. I'd say good deal 🙂

[latent dagger]

I love how I don't even need a controller pak. Whenever I need to save I just change controller type from snac to pak then save and swap back.

So after a little research I think what I need is this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Lube-3-oz-Tube-Synthetic-Grease-with-Syncolon-PTFE-21030/202932687

[tender pine]

I hear that but go on eBay and people are now practically giving them away. Certainly by eBay standards. £30-40 and you don't need to worry about will it or won't it.

[blissful wolf]

maybe NSO controllers might be available in NA but the rest of the world they definitely don't go for the same price as a saffun

[latent dagger]

people typically want like $70 for their NSO controllers used

from what I've seen

here in the US

[tender pine]

NA? I'm in the UK and picked up my NSO controller on eBay 'new' for £32.

[turbid warren]

32 pounds, that's a heavy controller

[lament escarp]

I have the 8bitdo modkit and hope every day that the driver gets fixed.

Maybe I should just get the anal 3d controller and give up on 3 handedness.

[mortal panther]

Yes, the official Nintendo Switch Online N64 controllers are routinely $70-$80 new on eBay in the US.

[zinc dew]

The Saffun clone I bought was half the cost, had a dongle that worked on the N64, less input lag, and didn’t require me to rebind every time on boot.

For me, it was a better option, and I own two NSO N64 controllers!

For full visibility I work for Saffun

[topaz otter]

what are you going to do with this?

[candid panther]

I've got the anal 3d controller on order

Looks like an 8bitdo ultimate controller (my default pc pad) with an N64 layout. What's not to love

Apart from it should be translucent

Otherwise happy with my 8bitdo modkit pad and my official original N64 asciipads with snac

[tender pine]

I'm not saying everything you've said regarding the Saffun vs NSO controller is incorrect or misleading. In fact I'm always likely to believe what anybody tells me unless I know or find out otherwise. But - and you'll need to forgive me - I'm even skeptical those reviewing products and/or games who've been sent 'free' as opposed to using their own money. As for working for the company in question...I'm hesitant.

[zinc dew]

Sorry, I was making a bad joke. I was making fun of myself for being so positive on them.

You're right though. The NSO N64 is the best, imo. I am just too lazy to buy a new bluetooth adapter lol.

One thing that isn't covered is the Saffun offers a full analog range of motion (and there's that deadzoone issue). Fortunately thhe MiSTer core corrects all analog ranges to be a perfect but that's not the case on an actual N64 for PC.

[lament escarp]

Yeah, everybody knows Robby doesn't work.

[tender pine]

LOL that's egg on my face. Told you I was naive, even gullible.

[zinc dew]

Not at all, it wasn't a funny joke and I shouldn't be pretending to be an employee of anyone.

Thank you though for being patient with my shitty jokes lol

I know you know this but posting for others: a full analog range isn't good for N64 emulation. The stick uses a much smaller range than modern devices.

[candid panther]

The test I use is f zero x

27 years of muscle memory doesn't lie

[languid dune]

The patch we all deserve.

[lone geyser]

Maybe you missed it but Shin-Etsu is just a bit better regarded. You can get it from Honda dealerships and apparently eBay

[latent dagger]

I'm good. Paying $20+ and waiting for something in the mail vs $7 and going down the street to a home depot has me not caring about an ever so slightly better lube. 😂

I'm not chasing perfection. I was just looking for what was the correct and appropriate product to use for my controllers

[atomic stratus]

@latent dagger there is also that RockerGaming guy on Twitter that seems to be developing some new replacement sticks that’ll supposedly be more OEM-like…he’s been sharing updates the past couple weeks saying there’ll be updates “soon”…I’ve been waiting a while to see what they’ve been cooking

[latent dagger]

I'll bookmark his etsy in case I do ever need replacements.
As it currently stands the range and response/tightness of the sticks I have seem good right now, so as long as I just clean them out right now of any plastic gunk shavings and whatnot, then lube them up and keep them maintained they shouldn't go to crap on me

[zinc dew]

I have it, it's quality is far above what's needed. You are absolutely covered with what you bought and then some. Shin-Etsu is just arcade junkie hype, which while fantastic for automative and other industrial applications, is a complete waste of money for lubing a controller.

[latent dagger]

I tried playing Turok last night.... sucks ass. no way to invert the control stick in settings lol. I wonder if there's a rom hack that does it for me lol.

they way I see it with lube like that is: both have the same quality in terms of their purpose and function, but one lasts a bit longer before you need to reapply

[zinc dew]

https://tenor.com/view/improvise-adapt-overcome-bear-grylls-gif-10468556

[latent dagger]

I can't even begin to understand how I wrapped my child brain around the camera control for up and down back in the day

[zinc dew]

Because that was the original and the standard

[latent dagger]

I don't have a problem if it's third person but in first person I need forward on the stick to be "up"

because in my brain as it stands now, if it's first person, I'm moving the head and eyeballs.
but in third person I'm rotating a camera around an object

the directions translate to being different depending on which it is in my brain lol

in third person I'm not looking to the left, I'm moving the camera to the right physically so I can then look left

[zinc dew]

modern accessibility is pretty great

[latent dagger]

I used to have a bunch of emotes. then one day some shit got all out of whack and I lost most all of them

that emote used to be part of 4 emote chain I could throw out there where the first one is the most zoomed out, and by the time you got to the fourth one it was all zoomed in on the eyes and nose

[zinc dew]

yeah, that's a fair point. I guess Shin Etsu lasts a super long time so that's a nice perk.

[latent dagger]

ok well, daylight is burning. I gotta throw on some actual shoes, go to home depot, get the lube, then come back home, use the headlight restoration kit I bought a few weeks ago to actually do up my headlights, then clean and lube my sticks

😫

[candid panther]

I still can't deal with anything other than invert Y

Never going to change

Pains me that it's not the default anymore

[mossy vector]

How controversial is it for me to claim that the N64 has two MIPs CPUs, but for marketing and perception reasons Nintendo used the "microcode" half truth? Limited dev tools meant two CPUs were deemed hard to program for and keep busy, like on the Saturn and Atari Jaguar.

[mossy vector]

I guess what prompted this is to demistify microcode in system architecture explanations. I'm trying to understand why YouTube commenters got vicious. Microcode is a chunk of instructions that run in the second mips CPU that sits closer to the display processor/triangle rasterizer. Does that make anyone's brain glitch out like YouTube commenters?

[topaz otter]

I'm no expert on the mips cpu by any means, but I am an expert on youtube commenters and I can tell you right now that they will defend their ignorant opinions like a rooster guarding a henhouse

[mossy vector]

Yeah. It feels like a determined commenter can use an orbital laser cannon of sorts. I wonder what set of scripts or programs they use, and there must be a pool of accounts for hire.

[atomic stratus]

I think youtube commenters are missing a mips CPU in their brain

[wanton sun]

it HAS two MIPS CPUs. You could make the main CPU set some basic things, then crash it and run a game run from only the RSP. It would still be faster than the PS1.
The microcode however was not just marketing. At the start of the console, the details of the RSP have not been open, so while you could use the general MIPS OPcodes, all the vector opcodes would have been unknown, so you had to use the existing microcode or reverse engineer it.

[mossy vector]

Do you think the RSP details were kept secret as a trade secret? Or do you think (like I do) that it kept the commands consistent so that internal technical support was easier?

[mossy vector]

@wanton sun I have another burning question... Given your embedded DSP background, how unique is this method of division? https://github.com/ares-emulator/ares/blob/b2251305c05dfbba8cdf06b4ff93de9189e0a2be/ares/n64/vulkan/parallel-rdp/parallel-rdp/shaders/perspective.h#L62 The Ares code comment here either is acting like it's nothing special, or the author is being dryly sarcastic. I've never seen this done before. My real question is, is there a big book of Digital Signal Processing you find useful or university reference material that you were able to rely on at your day job?

[simple olive]

// Classic approximation of a (x * rcp) >> shift with a LUT to find rcp.

[wanton sun]

I would guess they assumed no one wants to invent a "microcode" for each game, so they better provide what they had for their own games anyway as it seemed natural and easy to use.

Building a fast division using a LUT isn't something strange, I have used that myself in the past when i needed divisions within few clock cycles. I don't have any reference book for that, sorry.

[zinc dew]

If they’re arguing on YouTube comments, they’re not an intelligent person. Don’t waste your time,

[blissful wolf]

I am gonna be real with you dawg, just play the remaster. It still has the vintage art style but now you have a view distance beyond 2 meters https://store.steampowered.com/app/405820/Turok/

Steam

Turok

Turok is back and no dinosaur is safe! When it was first released in 1997, Turok introduced gamers to a world teeming with cunning enemies, traps, puzzles and deadly weapons all within a vast 3D environment ready to explore. Now the classic game has been restored and enhanced with a new visual engine and exciting new features to sink your teeth ...

Price

$5.99

Recommendations

2910

▶ Play video

[zinc dew]

Yeah, he’s right.

Remasters are where it’s at.

[vocal storm]

The remasters are wonderful, but I still feel drawn to the crunchy, low res look of the original, especially with the Turbo core to smooth out the frame rate. N64 games always look terribly unnatural to me at a very high internal resolution

Fantasy is a decomp that boosts performance and expands control options and visual settings on original hardware (…MiSTer)

[zinc dew]

Yeah same, haha.

I did really enjoy the remasters and recommend it to people. But id much rather play the original on an N64.

[lament escarp]

I'd rather play them on mister.

[zinc dew]

Oh uhhh, that’s what I meant

[vocal storm]

Speaking of Turok, was there ever discussion of the core having an inverted Y axis option baked in for games that don’t provide that option?

[zinc dew]

wat

[mossy vector]

I didn't see it come up. Do you want the osd menu inverted too?

Joking on that last part, but any ingame menus would be backwards too. It's probably doable.

[vocal storm]

I imagine it would be messy that way, but I realized how prevalent that was as a standard, and without options to correct some of the time

[civic wind]

maybe a rom hack could fix it?

[vocal storm]

I just recently spent too much very dumb time trying to use a combo of in game options and OSD settings to make Turok a dual analog game

That thing it already is if you spend 6 dollars on a modern platform

[mossy vector]

Maybe something you want in this mess? https://github.com/jombo23/N64-Tools/tree/master/Analog Controls Mod

[vocal storm]

That’s fascinating - thank you!

[mortal panther]

I want inverted X axis.
I like a challenge.

[blissful wolf]

use that #1212527493169414266 setup and stream the remaster onto the misterfpga from your pc at 480i

[topaz otter]

i think the nightdive remaster has all that

you can change it back to the original n64 look and resolution

in fact that remaster has so many options it would take too long to list them in this convo

[latent dagger]

I'll check out the decomp ROM.

[tender pine]

I am Turok!

[latent dagger]

Can't find anything by using terms "turok, N64, fantasy, hack"

[tender pine]

Decompilation > Recompilation > Remaster > FPGA emulation > OG hardware > software emulation.

Fo' sho'

[latent dagger]

Before and after cleaning the second controller

Left seems to be a little iffy, but I noticed in the live test it responsds with full tilt by pushing a little harder on it but I'm not gonna do that while actually using it lol. I'd say it's still in good enough shape.

[latent dagger]

Seriously, I cannot find anything for the first turok game. The only thing I see on the internet right now is a decompilation project of turok 3. I don't see any decompilations nor do I see any ROM hacks for the first turok other than one that exists supposedly for analog control modification in the turok forums and it was back in 2015 and it's a link to the Golden eye vault which is no longer valid.

[topaz otter]

yeah I don't think there is a decomp for turok 1

but the source code for it got leaked a long time ago

and nightdive ported the entire game to the Kex engine

[mortal panther]

I think it was one of the first released... if not the first. But yeah, I can find nothing about the first Turok. Only Turok 3.

[vapid hawk]

https://github.com/jombo23/N64-Tools/tree/master/Analog Controls Mod

they have like 12 turok variants one must surely help you out 🙂

[hushed nova]

that readme is like a recipie website, jeez

[vapid hawk]

(searched n64 - invert controls patches)

also, dont we have an invert stick option in the core OSD or did i dream that

i thought people were using it for starfox

@latent dagger ^

[mortal panther]

I was specifically referring to [this](#1096015979055697940 message), nothing to do with inverted controls. The link you posted, Haggarman posted the exact same link just a few comments above yours.

[vapid hawk]

oh sorry should of scrolled up heh

[zinc dew]

@jolly turret given any thoughts on adding your N64 audio filters to the official MiSTer repo? They’re fantastic!

[topaz otter]

I remember trying to jump on tiny platforms suspended over nothing turok 1

and they kept geting smaller

then at the end of the game it expects you to jump on like 99 of them to get the extra life thing on that one part

wasn't worth it

[jolly turret]

I ultimately decided against it for the reason that I discovered an underlying issue in regards to how the framework deals with outputting audio, as well as running into limitations with the current audio filter system, which both prevent me from reaching correct and authentic audio reproduction and continuing to work on creating additional filters for other cores due to the limitations that I'm running into.

I have been completely silent about it because it was not apparent until somewhat recently if a solution or improvement could be found and implemented for a seemingly incredibly complex issue, which I have been testing, researching and working on in most of my free time since last summer, and I hope to have some good news to share somewhat soon.

[zinc dew]

Sounds amazing, thank you so much for your hard work!

As an audio plebe not knowing the intricacies or details, your filters are awesome and I've been using them ever since you posted it.

[jolly turret]

Thank you, I really appreciate your support. I really like my filters as well. I have put so much of my time and energy into developing these, I believe it took approximately 18 months of research and work to develop these filters, partially also because there is no official documentation and code available, and ultimately I could only finish them with the support of several key people who kept supporting my work.

But unfortunately, instead of reaching a point from where I could just focus on developing additional core audio filters, I had to take a large step back and focus on the encountered issues first.

[latent dagger]

I don't think that option if it exists works for snac

I'll take a look at the GitHub

[tender pine]

It's simple.

The top 10 N64 games of all time.

Mario 64, Wave Race, Lylat Wars, Doom 64, Sin & Punishment, No Mercy, Mario Party 2, Paper Mario, Ocarina and Goldeneye.

Don't go getting confused...

[lament escarp]

You don't get to decide that!

[weary beacon]

calling it lylat wars
opinion invalidated

[topaz otter]

doom 64 doesn't count because its doom

I can play it on every device ever made including an HP printer and a roomba so its not original to the N64

if anything it should be replaced with turok

turok was highly original, had a great soundtrack, and is a blast to play

[lament escarp]

Turok is just dinosaur doom.

[deft tree]

Doom64 is actually its own completely different game, generally I agree with you about Doom console ports

[tender pine]

Why would I call it anything other living in a PAL territory?

[vapid hawk]

doom64 was an n64 exclusive until like, 3-4 years ago (when nightdive remastered it)

[tender pine]

Doom 64 and OG Doom...two entirely different games. Also I'd argue Doom 64 is better while OG Doom is obviously the heavier weight.

[topaz otter]

its good but I wouldn't put it on a top ten list of the best N64 games

maybe in the top 20

[zinc dew]

I’ll take credit for that!!!

I pushed that game heavy

[topaz otter]

number one, its a third party game, number two its based on an existing property

number three, its fun but it wasn't a killer app making N64s fly off the shelf like ocarine or goldeneye

because most of us played doom and doom 2 on the 486 anyway

[weary beacon]

neither was mischief makers but i'd put that in a personal top 10

[green epoch]

someone of culture

[tender pine]

Blasphemous id argue but using my head over heart id strongly suggest it's the best FPS on the console, certainly single player. My heart says Turok and Goldeneye, my head, Doom 64.

[green epoch]

I can't believe y'all would do South Park dirty like that

[vapid hawk]

its also the doom game you're most likely to be surprised by since it was so obscure for so long

[topaz otter]

I'm just saying that its only mind blowing if you never played doom before, but by 1997 most of us had played doom to death

[tender pine]

Mischief Makers in a fun game, but it's never making the top 20 even. Top 30, maybe.

[green epoch]

not someone of culture

[topaz otter]

trey parker and matt stone have disowned those games lol

[green epoch]

the shooter? did they really? makes sense

[tender pine]

I'm just no hipster.

[topaz otter]

yeah they didn't even want to make any of those south park games

and most of them turned out bad

[green epoch]

Oh they were all bad

until the stick of truth

[topaz otter]

its the reason they didn't make any more until like twenty years later

the south park game that looked like a clone of the simpsons hit and run actually looked pretty good, it was in development right after the movie

but it got cancelled

[tender pine]

That's why I said OG Doom will never be topped for it's influence and impact. Take that away however, Doom 64 is easily it's equal if not it's better half.

[zinc dew]

I don’t like that I’m agreeing with the king of wind demons and pestilence

And he just gave me a thumbs up. Which I’m concerned just marked me for death

[tender pine]

Not marked, but certainly a closer eye...

[zinc dew]

I’ve got my own personal top 10 but if someone gave me the N64 games you listed and said i could only play those I don’t think I’d complain

[tender pine]

Don't get me wrong. Some I needed to cut in order to keep it a top 10 hurt like mad. I feel however the games I picked could never and will never be discounted.

Beetle Adventure Racing is a personal favourite of mine...

[zinc dew]

Perfect Dark > Goldeneye

[tender pine]

Oh I can't agree. Goldeneye still plays better imo. Perfect Dark PC port however, running at high resolution and 120fps. Now that is a thing of beauty.

[zinc dew]

we will fight

🤺

[tender pine]

On guard!

[zinc dew]

** 𝐑𝐞𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝐨𝐧 𝐁𝐮𝐠𝐬 **

If you’re seeing issues in games then do the following:

• Ensure you have the latest core by running update or update_all.
• Double check you don’t have multiple versions of the core and delete older ones.
• Check your core config to make sure everything is set to default or simply delete your config and try again.
• Test against real hardware (if you can) to make sure it’s not a bug with the original game/hardware.
• If you’re playing a fan-made patch, then check the original game first as patches may introduce new bugs.
• Finally, look on GitHub to see if the issue was already reported - [LINK]

(the N64 core is mature enough where most issues are already known and anything else is likely a bug with the original game/hardware or you’re doing something wrong)

[tender pine]

Clean!

[latent dagger]

Bruh, the multiplayer for South Park was the best. Running around getting specialty weapons like the cow launcher was fun as heck

[green epoch]

I played a lot of SP multiplayer

[candid panther]

Lol just remembered this classic commercial

Caused loads of controversy back in the UK when it released.

https://youtu.be/XMPcwfM9S7w?feature=shared

I still got the game that Xmas, aw yeah

[latent dagger]

Turns out, most gamer girls were probably better at playing the game than you were 😂

[candid panther]

Nah I had finished it by new years eve, I remember being at the forest temple on boxing day

My sister sucked at playing it

However that's only because I was on it all the time 🤣

She is way better at mario kart than me

[daring pike]

so I got my SNAC adapter and tried Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 with a real N64 controller/TransferPak/Pokemon cartridges, and it works perfectly (up to mystery gifts and all)

though as usual the N64 controller / TransferPak and cartridge itself needed perfect cleaning with deoxit otherwise it's finicky, and even then you need spare controls to leave the cartridges into those so they don't move whle you use your main controller separately

[candid panther]

Yeah I remember having issues when I got the transfer Pak brand new

Back when Pokémon stadium released

I have no idea why it's so temperamental

Used to take a few goes before it worked sometimes, back then just blowing it worked lol not that I do that anymore

[chrome quest]

It's very cool to get N64 Stadium 2 SNAC working.
Get all those mystery gifts!

(WARNING: some gifts are "stadium 2 only" but impossible to obtain due to how the RNG is generated. There's a hack to get them. Hoping one day it could be turned into a cheat code on the core so you could get them on real hardware)

[lament escarp]

The MiSTery box decorations are pretty tricky appearently, I'm not even aware of any romhacks that managed to get them in.

[candid panther]

There's a patch to allow the GB tower in Pokémon stadium 2 to run other Gameboy games via the transfer Pak. I played through a fair bit of Zelda on it, and the speed up options work!

That was using a real console, but it works with the MiSTer fine

[vapid hawk]

finally a decent way to play GB games on mister

i've been using an emulator on ao486

thats really cool though! it could actually be uniquely useful if you were using snac right

use your real cart on mister

[zinc dew]

👀

[candid panther]

I wonder if Pokémon Pinball's rumble will work when using it via GB tower

I'll try later if I find a spare aaa

[lament escarp]

Certainly works on the gb core.

[candid panther]

Yeah this would be using an actual cart via snac, I imagine it'd be like a really shitty rumble pak

[knotty zealot]

imagine living in bronx just casually renting videos in 95 and then you pick up rumble in the bronx... but then you feel an earthquake. just a thought.

[zinc dew]

That’s the movie where the kid was playing a game gear that didn’t have a cartridge!!!

[knotty zealot]

yes, lol

[lament escarp]

Stop leaking the next dx violet update! 😭

[mortal panther]

He can't be captured...

[knotty zealot]

can we talk about the quality of that cutout? is it done by AI or what

[neat sierra]

ROBBY uses Apology

[mortal panther]

Manual erase of the background in Paint.net.
Spending that much time rubbing on Robby is something I'd rather not reminisce about...

[knotty zealot]

you zoomed in like 400% and meticulously removed the pixels

[mortal panther]

Pretty much. It was rather traumatic.

[knotty zealot]

i can see the rounded edges of the brush along the shirt up to his armpit

this is FINE craftmanship

i've been in the trenches

wait! A FLAW

zoom in and look to the left of his left arm

YOU MISSED THE EDGE

i'm appauled tbh

[zinc dew]

can u plz increase my muscles

[mortal panther]

No can do. You should have taken that picture after arm day. 😄

[topaz otter]

being able to put a mister into an actual N64 case with a real cartridge connecter and using real cartridges

I'd pay money for that

[lament escarp]

Can you make them thin like sticks?

[tender pine]

We've gotta hear something from Analogue regarding the 3D before the month is out...no?

I mean, surely. Otherwise I'm gonna be getting real nervous.

I want my A3D.

[vagrant ivy]

#fpga-platforms

[lament escarp]

Only thing halfway interesting about analouge 3d is the controller. For use on mister. ☝️

[tender pine]

Nah. If delivering on the promise it's the overclocking which is most interesting. In theory allowing for locked and/or steady frame rates in games that vary wildly.

[zinc dew]

Do the pins answer everyone's questions about using the core?

[zinc dew]

pins updated

[stone pilot]

"Why are there so few good games on this system?"

[topaz otter]

Does anyone really know what time it is?

[languid dune]

It's tool time!

[bright lotus]

Not bad

The stick is still a bit over sensitive (Mario runs at full speed at 80-90% tilt)

Okay yeah, I can easily pop off headshots in Goldeneye now

[zinc dew]

Did you use the N64 core to test it?

[narrow dirge]

Quick question would a n64 controller to usb adapter all work on a mister as well as a PC or would I be better off getting a snac adapter for mister and a separate adapter for pc.I am assuming the pc adapter would also work on the mister but would it be picked us as n64 controller or just a generic one.I take it a snac adapter wouldn't work on pc emulator

[chrome quest]

Correct, SNAC won't work on PC.
A USB controller on MiSTer is always generic I suppose, but for N64 I've not found any issues at all using the Raphnet USB adapter. The core and MiSTer framework is pretty clever in how it can remap the shapes of analog sticks into N64 convention. Whatever way a modern USB adapter views the N64, the translation on the core makes it work flawlessly in my experience at least. Can't think of any other downsides, unless you want SNAC for odd peripherals like TPak, or Microphone

[narrow dirge]

Thanks will just get a pc one

[chrome quest]

Not sure about all adapters, but some can also work on PC to load/save GB saves via the Pak, or similarly for any saves on Controller Paks you might have, which can be nice if you have any other old N64 hardware around

[bright lotus]

This IS a MiSTer

[zinc dew]

Not sure if you're aware but the N64 core auto clamps any values over the preferred max that the N64 should do. That being an original joystick probably doesn't apply but thought I'd mention it.

[bright lotus]

Oh, that's right

Dammit

[zinc dew]

It shouldn't matter for OG sticks but it fixes ones with crappy weird ranges like the Retro Brawler ones

[atomic stratus]

I have that stick too and I really love it with the core. I should probably update another controller with it so I have a P2

[teal citrus]

https://youtu.be/U8CvmHzGE8Q

[green epoch]

That's a gracious way of saying "bad"

[thorn flax]

That's a bad way of saying "hidden gems"

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/blqFI.gif

[lament escarp]

Everything is a hidden gem according to metaljesus.

[green epoch]

Some gems are not worth finding

[zinc dew]

Some gamer’s trash is another’s nostalgia.

think about it

[thorn flax]

3deep5me

[lament escarp]

I watched a multiple hour video on why aidyn chronicles is actually really good and I wanna try it some time.

[marble cargo]

You know a game is good when there is a twenty hour video dedicated to talking about it.

[green epoch]

I played and beat MK Mythologies on the N64

I'm not proud of it

[turbid warren]

now beat the Mortal Kombat Mythologies bootleg for Genesis 🙂

[green epoch]

Not until someone makes a video about how much of a hidden gem it is

[potent stream]

is there any way to choose how the calibration for the n64 stick works? It's calibrating my values to this which isn't full diagonals. I imagine it's because I'm usin gan adapter to a wii classic controller, but I feel like a lot of people would have non-n64-using-raphnet setups that could all have different ideas

not the end of the world but I feel like a lot of people would want the ability to choose bewteen a few different heuristics

oem and hori at least

this is like hori shape with OEM cardinal values

[zinc dew]

No way to choose and the core auto clamps the stick range to desired values.

[potent stream]

ah so it would be an enhancement, maybe I'll look at the github and make a pull request or something

[zinc dew]

That would be awesome of you, friend. And if not you could always file it as an issue with “feature request” in the title.

[potent stream]

yeah I will if I give up. I imagine the code is all there, just need to add a menu choice and a few different magic numbers

it's impossible for the core to know what IRL controller is plugged into some random adapter people could be using

[wanton sun]

you cannot simple add a menu entry as the stick recalibration (limiting values to what a n64 controller would be able to do and make it octagonal) is done in main, not in the core

main can read menu settings, but at least it's a little bit more complicated

the shape in the image doesn't look too bad to me, but it's hard to say if you are not on the page that compares with the real controller

code is here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/blob/master/support/n64/n64_joy_emu.cpp#L53

[potent stream]

OEM mapping for this would look like this:

I can't find my controller tester rom that has the diagonals but this is hitting 60s instead of 50s

[wanton sun]

i see, yes, probably noticeable

[potent stream]

hell yes I'll poke around. The SM64 speedrunning community has recently been talking about extending their supported emu platforms and I think your core would be a great addition to that, especially if it can choose any gate preference

it happens that mario can still run at full speed on the diagonals so competitively there is no issue with the current calibration, however it is a bit strange to get used to. Maybe even BETTER honestly, but different

hmm the built in calibration is dead on for n64 oem -> raphnet adapter. Definitely the users would need to choose which gate they want as the default is going to be by far most common preference

best solution for me I think is to edit the firmware for my wii adapter to calibrate teh diagonals differently methinks

[surreal bay]

If there is a solution out there for adjusting this, I’m very much interested in this for competitive smash bros. We get around this by using snac but adjusting this for usb controllers would open up more controller options for the community.

For smash people physically mod their controller sticks for higher range (above 80 in the corners).

[bright lotus]

dumb question - does the click even have any functionality or it's a holdover?

it feels great

Yeah, the result is significantly better on actual hardware

Wish I could de-adjust it on MiSTer

Mario is still a bit oversensitive but it feels so nice

[atomic stratus]

oh like stick itself being able to be pressed down? I doubt it has any functionality

[bright lotus]

Yeah

[bright lotus]

There was a talk about lacking game library but I highly recommend any games by Eurocom

Especially 007 TWINE and Duke Nukem Zero Hour

[latent dagger]

I thought it only did that with USB input through MiSTer main though, and has no effect on snac

[bright lotus]

The readings are pretty different on Mimi with og hardware compared to snac

#1096015979055697940 message #1096015979055697940 message

[latent dagger]

I don't have og hardware to test myself

[bright lotus]

First time playing RE2 on CRT with expansion pak

Half the time I can't tell WHEN it switches to 480i

[latent dagger]

It's easy if you look for the flicker

[bright lotus]

I can't

if there is it's barely noticeable

[latent dagger]

What CRT you have?

[zinc dew]

Yeah, you’re right.

[bright lotus]

Aperture grille Toshiba that does up to 480i

Filtered PS2 games look pretty crisp on it

[latent dagger]

I wasn't aware that Toshiba ever made an aperture grille

pretty sure Toshiba was in direct competition and wouldn't dare pay Sony money to use their tech

[bright lotus]

Well, okay, I don't know, vertical scanlines CRT?

[latent dagger]

there's no such thing. scanlines are the lines of the image being drawn and they are always drawn from left to right top to bottom.
a lot of people use the term to refer to the gaps between the lines though but that's still horizontal.

if you are experiencing vertical phosphor lines that's different and is a byproduct on some (not all) earlier aperture grilles and slot masks (slot mask is what Toshiba used)

But regardless of all that, I was more curious about the model because you say you don't experience noticeable interlace flicker so wanted to look up the set.

[bright lotus]

29VH36G

[latent dagger]

oh I see. it's a PAL set?

[bright lotus]

yeah

the only time I saw flicker was Ridge Racer V but that game is just raw

[latent dagger]

Based on what I can dig up on this set it has a lower tvl count and not super fine dot pitch which helps with not seeing the flicker a lot.

My set has a little higher tvl and finer dot pitch so I can see the flicker a bit easier

[iron dove]

it's pretty accurate for an NSO n64 controller also

[potent stream]

interesting! I'd think people would go to hori to do that. My wii classic->raphnet adapter has 3 settings to choose from so I wonder if the weird box shape is for you guys haha.

this is my wii->bluetooth dongle and in testing it seems very obvious what's going on: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/780562188419072005/1344139661722783836/image.png?ex=67bfd31c&is=67be819c&hm=0497578208679f57e90bce9a6bd8adeab530c2769c5d25d36012f8e25a424a5c&

values are being clamped to the cardinals and diagonals, which is a good general solution for sure -- I'd say even an ideal solution for sm64 if it weren't for a few tricks that require precision becoming significantly harder (but not impossible). Maybe I'll mess with the values on this line and see what happens. It would help both of us @surreal bay

static constexpr int MAX_DIAG = 69;

I don't know how we'd do a general solution of choice though. I'm not sure what calls this class

[surreal bay]

Yeah I think in general what I found with my Raphnet and hori pad is that the sensitivity felt the same as on SNAC but the maximum input value was clamped at 69 at the corners. If that diagonal value could be clamped at 80 or 85 it would probably work fine if it doesn’t change the sensitivity. I am not really savvy enough to figure out how to change these values though so if you figure out how to change it id be very interested.

[potent stream]

your needs are quite simple, literally just edit that 69 to an 85. I think my issue is because the code is only reducing values to get things to fit, assuming all controllers are larger than the ideal. However mine is larger for cardinals, but matched for diagonals, so it's getting reduced in the diagonals unnecessarily.

I think it's possible that my fix would be a net positive for everyone, but yours would not and would require users choose what they want, which is a whole can of worms. I think probably there is definitely a benefit to having at least 3 different gates for n64 since there was OEM, Hori, and S64's thing you're discussing (probably raw gate clamped to a square 85)

@surreal bay

I think what I'll do is see if I can rewrite this class to suit my needs and make sure it is a superior general solution, then publish a separate two classes for the other two needs and put in a request to main to see if someone that knows how to integrate that could use the classes I've made

[surreal bay]

Yeah I think it would mostly be for the small community of smash bros players who really are just using mister for that one specific use case

[potent stream]

yeah and in that case we could just fork main for you all and just use the 85 and not even wait for general adoption

you'd be stuck on the version we forked but if the mister is only being used for n64 I wouldn't personally be bothered

I'm actually very curious what kind of raw values non-n64 controllers have. I bet there are a couple out there that would be in the same boat as me -- ps4 controllers and such

[surreal bay]

Yeah some of the 3rd party ones are hyper sensitive which makes them unplayable in most games

[potent stream]

yeah the math doesn't seem to help sensitivity either, just limits the highest values which doesn't actually fix sensitivity -- might be my controller though

[surreal bay]

I think when I tried an Xbox 360 stick I was roughly like 3/4 to the end of the gate before it reached the range limit so it’s probably somewhere around 100 max

Yeah I think the sensitivity is actually feels correct. At least with a Raphnet controller

[potent stream]

yeah that's exactly what mine is doing, however if the controller is sending a "100" for 80%-100% then nothing we can do

[surreal bay]

*raphnet adapter

[hushed nova]

just fyi, you can run a specific mister binary for just one core

[potent stream]

main core != mister binary?

if they're the same thing that's perfect for us

[hushed nova]

so if you decide to modify a private copy, you can just name it like MiSTer_n64 and setup your ini to run that mister binary just for n64

[potent stream]

I thought main was a separate core for the menu when the mister boots up, and the mister binary was the kernel?

[hushed nova]

no, main is /media/fat/MiSTer which is just a linux program that handles input, i/o, fpga management etc

[potent stream]

ahhhh, that makes the fork idea super seamless then

[hushed nova]

in your ini if you do something like

[n64]
main=MiSTer_n64

it will run that instead of /media/fat/MiSter for just that core

[potent stream]

yeah like groovy has to do

awesome, thanks for clearing that up -- I had thought of that but thought it wasn't relevant. I could try out like 7 different ideas at once now

just make a bunch of copies of my n64 core

@surreal bay can you give me a screenshot of stick values that would be ideal for smash 64

no rush -- I won't get to this until the weekend at earliest

[surreal bay]

Ah all good yeah I have to leave for work but I’ll take some screenshots when I get back. But yeah the game itself reads a range of 80/-80 as max so anything over that doesn’t make any difference.

[wanton sun]

a copy of the core will not help, as not the filename is used in the .ini but the synthesized header string

Easiest to test is to have a ftp or smb connection at hand

[hushed nova]

oh, I thought they were just changing the analog input 'shape' limiter in main

[tender pine]

Anybody got a controller recommendation should you want to play games such as Killer Instinct and/or Mortal Kombat comfortably?

[latent dagger]

since they are fighting games get a fighting pad

if you don't want to use an actual fight stick mapped to controller inputs then and want ergonomics get a retrofighters brawler perhaps

[thorn flax]

the xbox and playstation buttons are the real mortal combat

[latent dagger]

test your might

[topaz otter]

I actually borrowed this from someone when I was in school

in turn I let him borrow link to the past

I gave him back sub zero because it was bad, just plain bad

he gave me back link to the past and said it was the most disgusting game he'd ever played

[latent dagger]

lol

[topaz otter]

he didn't elaborate either

[green epoch]

You have to wonder what they saw...

[topaz otter]

it was weird because his favorite game was links awakenening

which is literally the same game

[lone geyser]

The clamping values used for diagonals are (±69, ±69). Main is supposed to track observed cardinal and diagonals and clamp to whichever is the least aggressive (see graphic in linked comment). 69 was pulled directly from some other reputable source (I think ares?).
https://discordapp.com/channels/647909397477195803/1096015979055697940/1161358839287914497

I'm not a dev so I try not to make comments like this but if there's a compelling reason to use some number other than 69 its a trivial fix

[simple olive]

static constexpr int MAX_DIAG = 69;

[lone geyser]

You can see that the diagonal is probably the limiting factor in this image because you hit 69 in the DL position and don't hit 85 on any of the cardinals

That graphic also shows how making the diagonal better for some controllers will make it worse for others

Usually, if there's an issue with not being able to run diagonally, it comes from different lengths for the different diagonals because the stick isn't good, so one diagonal will properly push the edge while another, shorter one will not

[potent stream]

yup that's the same line I singled out lol

[potent stream]

thanks, saved me hours of confusion LOL

I think my fix will require significantly more logic actually. To have a smooth normalized path from 0-85 values, you'd have to know each controller's individual range and then scale it. Users would need to spin the stick to get proper calibration, but would likely happen across doing that. If this code is static and can't store values (MAX_OBSERVED_UP_RIGHT for example), then I don't think what I'd ideally want is possible

[lone geyser]

Seriously, haha. There was so much discussion around how best to do it

[potent stream]

yeah I don't doubt that at all

[lone geyser]

If you want to see how it's being handled in main, it's max_cardinal and max_range in input.cpp. It's sharing the max values for all cardinals and all diagonals, but it is checking them all at the same time

Easiest way to 'fix' it would just be to bump up the outer deadzone

[potent stream]

yeah I mean could definitely observe what I'm specifically getting and then alter it just for me, but hopefully a better solution would be possible, we'll see

my guess is that all regular octagonal gates are affected the same way mine is (gcc, hori, wii classic, etc)

also tbh I don't think non speedrunners would care so definitely not worth compromising the current solution which is quite generally good

[tender pine]

While that's lovely, I'm not nearly into Mortal Kombat enough.

[vapid hawk]

https://bsky.app/profile/quest64official.bsky.social/post/3lj4oow2bhs2u

Quest 64 Official (@quest64official.bsky.social)

Reposts

804

Likes

2006

Bluesky · Feb 27, 2025, 12:56 AM

[potent stream]

whelp, good news for me and bad news for everyone else I guess lol. I was able to edit my santroller wii->usb adapter firmware to limit the values to -22,000 -> 22,000 and that's the sweet spot for the native mister code to not clamp me much at all -- mapping is basically perfect now, only issues are issues with my physical controller which is obviously fine b/c that's what accuracy is. I might still try to contribute, but I will be honest, the motivation is going to be hard to come by

at the least I'm going to list all competitive preferences from sm64 as that knowledge is very niche. I'm asking Kally what he thinks of my list before publishing it here if anyone uses it in the future

[zinc dew]

Hey, friend, happy you got your stuff figured out. Contribute or don’t, whatever works for you, your availability, and brings you happiness.

[potent stream]

Kally-approved list:

"Narrow" OEM - 85 cardinals, 44 degree diagonals (WK towards wall every time notches)
"Wide" OEM - 85 cardinals, 46 degree diagonals (no WK towards wall, wk every time to the left/right)
"perfect" oem - 85 carindals, 45 degree diagonals (lakitu cam symmetrical everywhere)

Hori - 100/110? (I forget the values they get) -- 45 degrees

Smash 64 - 85 cardinals AND diagonals

[weary perch]

this is cool info. is this accessible anywhere else? maybe could be cool to post a resource or forum thread on the SM64 src page

i can't quite parse the "wall kick towards wall every time notches" notes but i assume they'd make more sense if i ran SM64 😄

[potent stream]

so in SM64 if you jump against a wall you will walk kick if your angle to the wall is less than 45 degrees. If your angle is DEAD ON (the mister default) then you will NOT wall kick. Only wr runners would care about something like this, but they are also the ONLY people that will care so really they are all that matter for the decision options.

if you know for a fact that your notch is <45 degrees, you can just use the notch and not worry

[weary perch]

super helpful explanation, thank you! wasn't thinking about the angle between mario and the wall, just the diagonal length

[potent stream]

mario will run at full speed at 55 in any cardinal direciton (I'd have to break out my calculator to give you the diagonals lol), so the values are largestly irrelevant except for sensitivity (values of 100 would feel more sensitive than values of 80). After that you want values to all be as equal as possible (no sensitivity on left side, lots of sensitivity on right side). THEN you care about angle, which has 3 preferences, but honestly I'd say only maybe 5 people in the world know and care about that part.

[vapid hawk]

mister often relies on those exact 5 people to find and resolve its bugs so we love them all

[zinc dew]

What’s the diagonal of Mario’s nose when I stretch it into his mouth?

[ivory laurel]

You stretch what into Mario’s mouth?

[hushed nova]

mario, no

[candid panther]

I remember when I first played mario 64 back in 1996 in a toys r us at the demo kiosk. The queue went back to the front of the store.

I vividly remember the kid in front wasting time just fucking with Mario's face. And then crying when he got forced to move on

I remember playing it, mind blown, then the guy behind me came up and said dude there's a button under the controller!

Mind totally blown

Kids nowadays will never know how magical that warehouse of dreams was

[green epoch]

Finally, biblically accurate mario

[atomic stratus]

so true. I remember playing it at the kiosk there as well

[topaz otter]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/832513928835838006/ADFC862E3FE24FF486779D85735F43FC295EE36E/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

[topaz otter]

it wasn't a house of bargains though

I remember when they were chargin 89.99 for mario brothers 3

[mortal panther]

I still remember the retail price of many new N64 cartridges being quite the shock back then.
$60-$75 being the new normal was a tough pill to swallow... but, you wanna play, you gotta pay.

[latent dagger]

The fact that N64 games cost $70 to $80 in the 90s is ridiculous to me

What's even more ridiculous is that the cost of games all this time later stayed around the $60 mark and only recently increased a little bit

[iron wren]

Cost of distribution went way down but cost of development and marketing went way up, so my theory is they balanced out somewhere in the middle

[mossy vector]

I've never paid $70 for a n64 game. They were generally 50-60 in my area.

I recall Tonic Trouble at K-mart selling with an attached expired microwave popcorn package for $30. They didn't think that thru, it'd have been worth more without it.

[candid panther]

I remember December 2000

Majora's Mask: £49.99
DK64 with expansion Pak: £59.99
World is not enough: £39.99

£280 when adjusted for inflation today. Three games.

I got F Zero X as a players choice release for £20 - that's £37 today

[lament escarp]

Unlike modern games those games are actually good and worth the price.

[candid panther]

They are fantastic but there are a fucking ton of incredible games released nowadays, just avoid the mass market shite

Games are far more reasonably priced now than they ever were

I can buy a range of fairly new titles in a steam sale for a fraction of the cost of a crap N64 game back in the day. I can get a range of classics for the price of one Carmageddon 64

Nintendo have been firing on all cylinders with the Switch - it's by far got the best library of any console, I'd argue, hands down.

And best of all, you can pay the cost of less than three N64 titles cost back in the day to get a mister and own them aaaaalll

[lament escarp]

Trying to think of switch exclusives on the level of majoras mask and the only game I can think of is astral chain. And I'm not so sure about that one.

Given, I prefer the more simple and focused design of older games in general, which is probably also why I enjoy nes rpgs so much.

[latent dagger]

Links Awakening Remastermake

I liked it anyways

I also enjoyed Metroid Dread

And Luigi's Mansion 3

[lament escarp]

Links awakening remaster is an atrocity and the devs should go to jail imo. Dread was solid but felt way weaker than any 2d metroid before. Except for that metroid 2 remake abomination.

Only ever played luigis mansion 1, so won't judge that one.

[latent dagger]

What complaints do you have about Links Awakening?

[candid panther]

Links awakening is a fantastic reimagining. Plays perfectly with the blur effect removed and stutter fixes in an emulator for smooth fps

The entire story is a dream, and the game feels like a dream

[latent dagger]

When I first played it I was experiencing some issue with stutter when loading shaders and stuff going between some areas, except I found out that that was only because of the read speeds on my SD card. When I switch to internal memory the issue went away, and I corroborated with others who own physical cartridge copies of the issue was not present on the cartridges either

[candid panther]

Speaking as someone who got Links Awakening in 1995, so I grew up with it

I did play with an actual SNES pad though, I didn't like analog stick forced movement

The dungeon maker was also silly fun

[lament escarp]

It's a creepy pasta version of a great game and the scrolling camera messes with the game design of the original and wasn't adjusted for that. I won't give it point's for the amazing game links awakening is at it's core. And don't mention the qol improvements or I'll mention the performance issues.

[latent dagger]

Idk about performance issues my guy. I experienced none when I played it after moving it to internal storage

[candid panther]

One game that comes to mind is mario Wonder - the most fun I've had with a 2d mario game in decades, I've played through it three times now (alone, with a mate and with my daughter)

[latent dagger]

So you're on your own with that I guess

[candid panther]

And I enjoyed a silky smooth 60fps 4k throughout (Ryjunix)

Lol

I did play it first on the switch at launch and didn't notice any issues but my switch was overclocked back then

[lament escarp]

Saying it's not so bad when playing on emulator or a modded switch is like my saying Pokemons double dipping version exclusives isn't that bad since I modded that shit right out.

Also, links eyes are the black pitch of hell!

[candid panther]

Yeah he's a creepy little doll

It's like the majora's mask statue dolls

Uncanny

[zinc dew]

Yeah, this generation has been mostly hot garbo. Switch has been carrying.

[neat sierra]

Yeah still no PS5/Xbox for me but Switch2 rubs hands creepily in disturbing anticipation

[turbid warren]

i got a ps5. don't recommend

[candid panther]

First playstation I've not had a remote interest in

Got a pc, Nintendo and MiSTer. Don't need anything else

Switch 2 is a must buy for me because Nintendo has games worth buying

[zinc dew]

Guys, I really think Nintendo is going to go third party. This is it.

It didn’t happen with the N64, GBA, GameCube, DS, Wii, 3DS, Wii U, or Switch. But trust me bros, they’re going third party now.

I’m a game journalist bro, trust me.

[candid panther]

Sega went third party though so Nintendo obviously will eventually

Ignoring the reserve cash Nintendo has that rivals a small country's gdp

[mortal panther]

There have been so many remasters/remakes over the last few years, they should have called it the RePlayStation 5...

I absolutely love the hardware, especially the DualSense, but the utilization of the hardware has been pretty lackluster.
...and as much as I love the PS5 Pro, I would have a very hard time recommending it to anyone else. It currently seems to have a hard time justifying its own existence, unlike the PS4 Pro when it was released.

...and I'm a bit of a PS5 fanboy. 😏

[neat sierra]

You’re more of a commodore fanboy with a side fan gig as a PS5 boy

[zinc dew]

People really gotta stop buying remakes

[mortal panther]

I agree... for the most part. Shadow of the Colossus would like to have a word though.

[timber sun]

That is a great C64/Amiga collection, damn

[candid panther]

Those shelves had better be sturdy enough to hold the ps5s! Protect the Commodores!

Awesome lineup

[zinc dew]

y u got so manee keybards

[cunning cradle]

Yeah, it’s mostly just been like a ps4 super pro for me. Ps5 Pros biggest selling point for me is Rebirth and being able to play the Resident Evil games in fidelity mode without them turning into slideshows.

[mortal panther]

The PS5 is still the best PS4 you can buy. 😉

[cunning cradle]

If only it could play PT

[mortal panther]

I still have it installed on my launch base model, thankfully.

[potent stream]

why buy a ps5 when you could buy a ps3 (that can play ps1, ps2, ps3 with component output to a crt), a wiiu (wiiu, wii, gamecube natively to crt), a taki misterfpga, and a nice bowl of ice cream (native ice cream at full resolution)

[lament escarp]

For ps4 games.

[mortal panther]

I bought PS5s because I already had all those other things... and I like buying stuff.

[lament escarp]

True.

[latent dagger]

A PS3 does whack ass scaling and filtering to PS1 and PS2, and unless you have a launch model with the EE chip in it, PS2 is emulated and compatibility is kind of crap, and games tend to run poorly, and have graphical issues

[thorn flax]

https://tenor.com/view/smite-atlas-guardian-titan-gif-1458129283519060414

[latent dagger]

Wii and GC via virtual Wii on a Wii-U also has it's caveats

[thorn flax]

the wiiu ports carrying the switch

[latent dagger]

Lolol

One of the first launch games for the switch was a Wii-U port lolol

[thorn flax]

i went to a pre-launch event for the Switch and yes, Mario kart was the first thing we played on it

“oh they added confetti to the starting line”

[latent dagger]

I was referring to breath of the wild lol

[mortal panther]

It's funny... because those games couldn't carry the Wii U.

[thorn flax]

maybe not carry, but kept it limping along to the emergency landing

[latent dagger]

I feel like the Wii-U deserved better though. They really shouldn't have called it a Wii-U

[mortal panther]

iWii

[thorn flax]

new nintendo 2wii xl

[latent dagger]

Not only did they put Wii in the title of it, they even made the console still kind of look like a Wii just curvier which did not help with people's assumption that the Wii-U was just the touch screen add-on thing to a Wii and that it was just a Wii.

[thorn flax]

bums me out because that dip in market success probably put Iwata into an early grave

he was the best of that company

[topaz otter]

he actually programmed balloon fight I think

[turbid wigeon]

This probably bores you'll out of your mind but is return to Yoshi's island unstable on the n64 core

seems like every time I enable anti-aliusing I find a new crash

This one actually hit the core's error handler

[nimble needle]

Aw man. Had the 5th C64 from the left as a kid. And that tape loader underneath. Jesus I can hear the ocean loader song for Head over Heels in my head now 🥹

And them c64 games costing £4 in the late 80s- 90s. Great times

[mortal panther]

They cost money? 😏

[turbid wigeon]

everything involeing technology costs someone something

[mortal panther]

Well, I guess they did.
Blank disks weren't free... 😄

[turbid wigeon]

blank disk cost, time to duplicate if you had a bootlegger, phone minutes if you had network, eleric to keep the device saveing the disk/tape running

[nimble needle]

Wasn’t rich/posh enough for dem fancy c64 disks. Tried to cog tapes using a dual cassette tape player, worked as well as you’d expect 😂

[topaz otter]

I just tossed a commodore plus 4 in the dumpster yesterday along with the monitor

now before you fry me, it was totally dead

I spent two hours trying to fix it with my dad, I think the CPU was toast

it had been sitting in the box untouched since like 94

the monitor was also one of those that just had RF out and was also dead

[mortal panther]

I believe it. Those TED chips were notoriously prone to failure.

[mossy vector]

Your uncanny ability to crash RTYI makes you an ideal candidate for bug checking that game. It also crashes in real hardware, and in Kaze's own live demos. But, can you find a repeatable method to cause the crash? That's a skill.

[shut canyon]

Are there specific hacked roms for the turbo core?

[zinc dew]

No

[magic girder]

I bought Doom 2016 which is just a remake of Doom 1, right?

[mortal panther]

GOTEM

[turbid warren]

no, it's the 2016th doom. just like Doom 64 is the 64th Doom 🙂

[zinc dew]

Uhhhhhh yes

[lament escarp]

All remakes are bad

[green epoch]

It’s not a remake. It’s the sequel to doom eternal which is the sequel to doom 2. I see you all need to be educated so here you go https://youtu.be/g5OdQYASIPQ

Have I thrown away 3 hours of my life to watch that? Absolutely

[zinc dew]

It’s funny to see someone do that when I was just throwing out random shit in a meeting room a few years ago

[green epoch]

you should watch that video. the leaps it takes are funny

but if you blur your eyes a little bit, it all makes sense

https://tenor.com/bLLEy.gif

[zinc dew]

I guarantee you he’s thinking much harder about this than everyone on our team combined.

[green epoch]

oh absoooolutely

[zinc dew]

“Why is he the DOOM 64 marine? Cause DOOM 64 rocks.”

Done, moving on!

Also I wanted the Unamker

[green epoch]

Hugo did not strike me as a man who has any interest in the lore beyond "this is the doom marine, he is a bad ass, the demons are afraid of him"

[zinc dew]

Because we wanted a hidden weapon and that gun’s spelling was super close to Maykr

[zinc dew]

That’s changed.

[green epoch]

he cocks the shotgun on the final beat of the intro music

[zinc dew]

That was Marty

Marty was the one driving the tone and style from the beginning

[green epoch]

god doom 2016 was so good

[zinc dew]

It wasn’t good until we got confident and we didn’t get confident until Quake Con 2014

[green epoch]

Was that the quakecon where you didn't broadcast it and no one could see it?

[zinc dew]

And even then there was a lot of bullshit to fight against. There was a big contingency of people who kept wanting to make a sequel to DOOM 3 and it was a constant battle to shut them the fuck up

[green epoch]

(outside of quakecon)

[zinc dew]

And our marketing team at Bethesda were the most tone deaf fools who has no clue what the game’s style was.

thanks guys for giving us a Halo space marine box art

The head of marketing got fired when we had to do his job for him for that game

Anyways

We were literally fighting everyone to make that game dude

Even our internal playtesting department tried to sabotage us by convincing Bethesda upper management that no one wanted a game without a story and used Prey as the shining example of what people wanted.

First of all, what the fuck.

Secondly, Prey absolutely bombed horrifically and we want on to sell gangbusters.

[topaz otter]

but how does the doom comic fit into this timeline

[green epoch]

I think the coolest thing about doom 2016 is how it went from people dismissing it because "id hadn't made anything great in years" and "they didn't even send out review copies so 100% this game sucks" to "holy shit, this is incredible"

[zinc dew]

That was on purpose because a lot of media outlets wanted us to fail because of Bethesda playing hardball with them.

[onyx minnow]

i assume you mean the later "Prey"? The early one on xbox360 was kind of a fun playthrough

[green epoch]

watching brad and jeff realize in real time that doom 2016 was something special is one of my favorite giantbomb moments

[zinc dew]

The level of internal politics in games media is absurd and extremely frustrating.

[zinc dew]

The later Prey is an awesome game too

[green epoch]

prey 2014 is very good. and it's a shame it didn't do better

but that's definitely not what you want doom to be

[zinc dew]

Still kind of annoyed that Brad was shit at the game and then complained about it

[topaz otter]

I agree that doom 3 didn't need a sequel, but what you guys should have done is made a remake of quake 1 which I've been waiting on for 25 years

[bright lotus]

Prey 2017 is the closest thing to "System Shock 3" we ever got

[green epoch]

I really thought you guys deserved GOTY that year - I thought you'd get it from them too. But Hitman was too stronk

[topaz otter]

and I'm still waiting, you guys are wasting my time with this doom crap lol

[zinc dew]

We won GOTY from multiple outlets

[green epoch]

yep

[zinc dew]

So we did win lol

[green epoch]

there were no other outlets then, only giantbomb thx

[zinc dew]

oh lol

[green epoch]

it was my GOTY for sure

[topaz otter]

also wheres the sequel to quake 4

[zinc dew]

If you want Quake then you better get on buying those remakes/ports

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-4095597578532971838

I'm not falling for that anymore

[zinc dew]

then you get jack shit lol, don’t know what you want me to tell you

[topaz otter]

lolo

[green epoch]

no bullshit: the quake shit that machine games released a few years back is very good

[zinc dew]

I want it too but if the remakes sell terribly then how am I going to argue with a publisher’s data team

[topaz otter]

I've been buying remakes\reimaingings of doom since 2003

[green epoch]

both the quake and quake 2 campaigns

[topaz otter]

and yet I still have no quake

[zinc dew]

There’s not enough of “you” doing that

[candid panther]

Quake 64 is awesome

But doesn't it miss out on the NIN soundtrack

I've been playing quake 1 in vr and the soundtrack is essential to quake

Not played the N64 one in yeeeaars

[topaz otter]

as a person who has listened to the quake soundtrack by nin very recently on vinyl, you aren't missing much

[zinc dew]

Yeah but it’s got the the other dude’s atmospheric soundtrack which is much more applicable to the game imo

[topaz otter]

its two or three real songs and then 9 tracks of just ambient noise

[candid panther]

Ah yeah it's not a traditional soundtrack, it's just ambience

[topaz otter]

which is great for a videogame

[zinc dew]

Also Reznor is a bastard to deal with

Like an absolute prick

[green epoch]

seriously, if you guys own quake and quake 2 on steam, play the machine game campaigns. they feel like proper followups. the quake one in particular feels like what quake 2 would have been had they stuck with that world

[candid panther]

I can imagine,I know the 90s stories about reznor

[topaz otter]

did you fist fight him robby, tell us the truth

you punched him in the face didn't you

[zinc dew]

No but I’m biased

Because I got stories told by Bethesda and of course they aren’t going to paint themselves in a negative light

[green epoch]

He also wrote The Fragile, so we forgive him

[zinc dew]

haha true

[candid panther]

Broken is the best

[green epoch]

negative

[topaz otter]

just listened to all of the downward spiral, still isn't very good

[candid panther]

Followed up by pretty hate machine

[topaz otter]

with teeth in my opinion is his best album

I can listen to it over and over

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/dGPlOjWxrKO.gif

[candid panther]

Witha teetha

[green epoch]

I think you're trolling

[zinc dew]

Who are the quake 3 music dudes

[green epoch]

because no human holds that opinion

[bright lotus]

Aubrey Hodges does great work but I can't unhear his slowed down country songs

[topaz otter]

see the animal in his cage that you built, do you know what side of the glass you are on

deep

[bright lotus]

Or whatever the daaaaaangittt allllll is

[candid panther]

I have broken, downward spiral and the remaster of pretty hate machine on vinyl, need to get the fragile

[topaz otter]

sonic mayhem

no thats quake II

[bright lotus]

Sonic mayhem did tracks for q3

[topaz otter]

I'm legit not

I love with teeth

[candid panther]

Need to pick up more N64 soundtracks on vinyl, I have an ocarina of time one (orchestral covers), not sure if any else are out there

[mortal panther]

Confirmed: DOOM (2016) Lead Project Director is Pepe Silvia

[bright lotus]

I need to replay Doom 64 so bad

Now on og hardware too

Er, I mean MiSTer

[green epoch]

I don't kinkshame. it's not my favorite record, but it's an important one - it's the first record he did after kicking heroin

[mortal panther]

Same thing. 😉

[topaz otter]

didn't he also get divorced and then make that album

it sounds like a formerly divorced guy writes an album album

@zinc dew whats the deal with the trent reznor sound pack for doom 3

its unfinished, did he get bored and walk or what

[green epoch]

took too long

(at least, that was what I already read)

[topaz otter]

https://preview.redd.it/tuoktqq13oa91.jpg?auto=webp&s=f1528eea16cc468ece541986a700a34d4692216d

[candid panther]

Totally mad combination of people

[topaz otter]

it still want the truth on whether or not doomguys hairy fist is actually robin williams

and they just photographed his hand

[candid panther]

Trent's attire slightly reminds me of Trey Parker at the Oscars when tripping on acid

He's hairy enough

Or was at least

[topaz otter]

this is still the funniest thing I've ever seen

[candid panther]

Such a magical evening

[topaz otter]

matt stone didn't even know what planet he was on

[zinc dew]

You know I thought about this. I am 90% sure I can handedly take him out but I wouldn’t lay a hand on the guy out of respect.

[candid panther]

Robin Williams related too

As they were coming down as he performed blame Canada, hoping to god they didn't win

[topaz otter]

yeah the dudes a rock star, the attitude comes with it

[zinc dew]

Even if I can physically take him out, I’m pretty sure his legal team can morally and fiscally take me out and that’s way worse lmao.

[candid panther]

Well Trent isn't as pumped as he was before

During with teeth days he was huge

[topaz otter]

if he comes into this discord chat just ban him, you have the ultimate power

[candid panther]

Wouldn't fight him then

[zinc dew]

Nah I wouldn’t touch the guy just out of sheer respect

[candid panther]

I did chat with reznor before on oink, the private music tracker years ago. He was alright, if I remember

But obviously very different environment heh

[bright lotus]

Ran Quake 64 recently and surprised how well it holds up

[green epoch]

So I’m glad we are all on the same page: Doom 2016 is the best Doom game and The Fragile is the best Nine Inch Nails record. Great work everyone

[bright lotus]

It's also a rare N64 game that lets you strip VI screen filter in options

[zinc dew]

I prefer Eternal lol

[green epoch]

It really is kind of wild the split on that. I wish I could get into the combat loop of eternal. I tried real hard

[zinc dew]

You either play the way the game wants you or you don’t. It’s an extremely tightly knit design loop that demands high skill from the player the further you get in.

[knotty zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/little-girl-throw-up-gag-puke-dont-like-gif-16783503

[zinc dew]

some people don’t jive with playing it the way the game tells you and that’s super fair

And that’s not skill related either, some people just want to do their own thing and I respect that

[bright lotus]

Sorry, you can't super shotgun everything in it

[zinc dew]

But in order to push the combat as far as we could with the amount of variety we have, you play it the way it’s designed.

[knotty zealot]

"you guys go make a good game. - I - on the other hand will create a disney on-rails extravaganza."

[zinc dew]

Yeah, we fixed that lol

To an extent

[candid panther]

I finished eternal and the dlc on hard and I had to be in a zen like trance for most of it

This was before the difficulty in the dlc was adjusted

I don't think I could do it again but it was fun

[zinc dew]

Did we make it easier?

[candid panther]

I dunno! I swear I heard it somewhere

I'm not putting myself through it again though 🤣 that dlc was brutal

[green epoch]

i think if i had found the flow of eternal i would have loved it

[bright lotus]

Gun 1 - Gun 2 - Gun 3 - Maybe some shoulder tools - chainsaw the fodder - repeat

[green epoch]

What I wanted to do and what the game wanted me to do never synced up, so I felt like I was driving without power steering all the time

[zinc dew]

what did you want to do?

[green epoch]

meanwhile, in 2016, every time I opened up a gore nest it was like the lobby scene in the matrix

[green epoch]

there was like an order of operations mismatch in my brain versus the game. If I want health the game needed me to do a+b but my brain was like “c+d it is!”

[zinc dew]

Ohh ok

[green epoch]

totally not the fault of the game. I tried very hard to find the flow. I think the amount of systems also felt overwhelming

I feel like if you’re still teaching systems 2 hours into a game, you may have too many

[zinc dew]

fair!

Doom 64 rocks

[green epoch]

doom 64 is very good

[zinc dew]

I didn’t like it when it launched because I had already played it on PC and the enemies were sprites and I thought that was lame

But was a silly kid

[candid panther]

I didn't like it because I rented it and couldn't see shit

[zinc dew]

TRUE

[candid panther]

Now I can see and it's great

[zinc dew]

thanks some moron producer at Midway for that. The team submitted the brightness value at half way and he thought that was max value and set it that way RIGHT BEFORE MANUFACTURING

[bright lotus]

I tried on CRT and the game is still a shitty mirror

Yeah thanks

[zinc dew]

one of the first things I asked Kevin Cloud when I joined id lmao

[candid panther]

It's like castlevania circle of the moon on the GBA. Got it at launch and couldn't play it 🤣

Only in direct sunlight. We don't get that in the uk

[bright lotus]

I like to think Final Doom is canon and it takes place right after Plutonia

Hunted and Go 2 it would give anyone hell ptsd

[candid panther]

There's an amazing patch for the N64 version that ports it to a new engine, adds a ton of cool stuff and actually has decent brightness

Works nice on mister

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/7897/

Ah it wasn't a new engine, but they added huge improvements

[bright lotus]

Sweet, thanks!

Unfortunately doesn't seem like there's an option to turn off Y Axis on the stick

-# for weirdos like me

[candid panther]

Hm might be worth just trying something like an 8bitdo pad with stick remapping. You can set a profile to invert

If you have one

I can't play with anything other than invert-Y, can't remember what doom 64 has as default

[zinc dew]

You don’t have vertical aim in DOOM 64? Am I crazy?

It’s been so long

[candid panther]

Yeah I don't think you do

[bright lotus]

You don't, you move on y axis

[zinc dew]

Oh, wait you want to invert that?

Pull back to move forward?

[candid panther]

You definitely do in the vr mod, which changes it up a bit as a result

[candid panther]

Wut

[bright lotus]

Vertical movement gets in the way way too often whily trying to aim on X axis

[zinc dew]

Not invert, turn off

My bad

[candid panther]

Ohh

[zinc dew]

Ignore me I’m blind

lol

[candid panther]

Doomguy is now an airplane

[bright lotus]

The only time there was vertical aim is in unofficial older kex engine builds

-# and maybe some doomsday and gec recreations

[zinc dew]

Man, that rom hack really improved the game in every way right?

I can’t see a reason to play the vanilla version

“I can’t see shit” shouldn’t be something someone is nostalgic for