Nintendo 64

[broken creek]

It should. I have another steel bowl on the way I can try it out and let you know. Might be a couple weeks.

[vapid moat]

No fix for that anytime soon?

[broken creek]

Not sure. That's up to 8bitdo. I think some users here have been in contact with them but the firmware is still on its launch version last I checked. If you use Dinput mode there are no pairing issues, you just won't have rumble.

[lament escarp]

Last time I asked them they told me there are no plans to support more compatible modes like xinput or to make their own usb adapter compatible with the kit.

[obtuse estuary]

and in switch mode rumble is working with the MiSTer N64 core?

[lament escarp]

Yes, but you'll have to pair the controller again after disconnecting it.

At least the mapping stays intact.

[vapid moat]

Like a full-on pairing manually instead of it connecting to the MiSTer upon being turned on? That's cumbersome

[lament escarp]

Yes. It is. We tried different things for like a year and couldn't get it to work any better. You're welcome to ask the 8bitdo support to add xinput mode or at least make their own USB dongle compatible with the n64 modkit though.

Especially since their friggin description of the usb dongle says it's compatible with all 8bitdo controllers.

[vapid hawk]

presumably that doesn't happen on an actual switch and the issue lies in the mister BT stack?

[broken creek]

That’s my thought as well

[lament escarp]

No it doesn't. Shig tried several updates of the linux driver on mister and frankly I don't wanna bother him anymore.

[blissful wolf]

Gotten 3 levels into perfect dark and finally giving up….
How to I install the turbo core lol.

Is it manual file to install? Can it exist beside the normal core etc?

[tiny latch]

It's in the pins in here, but this is the link: #test-builds message

[blissful wolf]

Also how do you add cheat codes? I want to setup a save with everything unlocked but don’t see that anywhere in the cheat menu

[tiny latch]

you just put it in your mister's sd card under _console

[latent dagger]

If you are referring to perfect dark, then as was mentioned earlier it's a mod/hack you need to apply.
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/8251/

[mellow raft]

cheat codes would need to follow a specific cheat format: https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/cores/features/cheats/

They meant that the core build goes into _console

Cheats are placed in the cheats folder under the path of "cheats/[system]/[rom_filename].zip"

like cheats/NES/Taboo (USA).zip for example

[latent dagger]

I don't think that's what they were asking for. They simply said they looked through the cheats menu and didn't find anything that pertains to what they wanted, which implies that they have a cheats menu and it's working

[mellow raft]

I think "How do you add cheat codes" is pretty specific

but yes the mod/hack would work I suppose

but what if they wanted to do it in other games 😛

[latent dagger]

I read them saying that coupled with what they said right after to imply that they are under the impression that they need to add more cheats to the existing list of cheats in order to get the functionality they want.

[mellow raft]

Can you not add more cheats to existing cheats?

I mean yeah I get what you're saying. I was just providing an answer to their question 😛

[latent dagger]

Last I remember the cheats database list file text document whatever the heck is what it is.

[mellow raft]

yes which is explained in the link I gave.

[chrome quest]

Just experimented trying to make some Pokémon Stadium 2 cheats.
I've got a command address breakpoint, run to, then manually alter CPU (GPR?) Register V0 to a few values.
Eventually worked out how to do this in Project64, but no luck in my attempts to find these values floating about in memory to make a Gameshark code.
Making cheats can be hard work I guess!

[vapid moat]

How much mb of ram does N64's core use?

[mellow raft]

What's the context of the question? The memory is used for the rom but also is needed for running the hardware as well. This isn't a software emulator where everything is in RAM, it's also mapped hardware running in parellel in the FPGA

[vapid moat]

Trying to see if I can run B3313-hack (0.9 version) via trimming

[mellow raft]

I looked up a few things and it doesn't look like this hack ever had console compatibility in mind

The newer versions even explicitly state they don't work on console, so no I guarantee it won't run on MiSTer unless something made 0.9 console capable

[vapid moat]

In the server for the hack a new build for Unabandoned is trying to shoot for console compatability

[mellow raft]

Have they supplied a build for that yet?

[vapid moat]

Nope

It's in development

[mellow raft]

I wish them well. It's hard but props to them for going for it. We need more devs being willing to develop on hardware and not on emulators that tend to only work through tricks and hacks that original hardware doesn't allow

[vapid moat]

This is what they told me on their server:

0.9 apparently works on real hardware if you use a summercart and trim the rom by getting rid of the trailing zeros at the end of the hex code. The summer cart works because it has 64 disk drive emulation. So it can handle larger roms and things that require rtc.

[mellow raft]

N64 core doesn't support 64DD to my understanding, so I don't think that's a possibility then.

[vapid moat]

Hmmh

[mellow raft]

It's too much for the FPGA

The memory latency I believe was the ending limitation for furthering development on the core

It's just too complex

Memory latency on the de10 between the FPGA and the memory IIRC, so it's not something the community can fix

[last wraith]

not too big of a problem since you can already play the DD games on the core

[broken creek]

Looks like Sorg heard our discussion about the 8bitdo N64 kit.

[broken creek]

Wait that might be another issue. I see people from a few days ago talking about the division by zero bug.

[zinc dew]

Does the fix work?

[broken creek]

Not sure, I've actually never installed an unstable Linux kernel. Is it drag and drop of the zImage_dtb file in the linux folder?

[blissful plaza]

Yes.

[broken creek]

I can try it

[hollow rune]

I don't understand the implications of this

[broken creek]

Up above in the conversation there is discussion on the n64 8bitdo kit losing connection when in Switch mode.

My gut reaction was that this might be a fix from Santa Sorg, but maybe not. Have to test.

[vapid hawk]

i think the div0 thing was for something else, another pad that was maybe outright crashing mister?

still you never know

[broken creek]

On the forums the division by zero bug appears to crash linux when wired, so maybe a different issue.

I do believe it is this controller, the 8bitdo kit.

[hollow rune]

ok, I get that. I only use d input myself

[vapid hawk]

can you even plug that kit in wired?

i thought that funky barrel jack thing was power only

[broken creek]

I personally have never tried. I'm a wireless guy.

I think the forum user was trying to use it or charge it on their linux computer and it crashed their system

[vapid hawk]

huh

[vapid hawk]

weird

[raw oriole]

KP by USB? Embarrassing

[green epoch]

Just Linux things

[broken creek]

It was just interesting that this has been an issue for a while and I saw the unstable kernel drop a day after talking about the BT issues in Switch mode. I got prematurely excided. 🙂

Still have to test. Updating my mister and it is slow AF this morning. Lost power mid-update.

[hollow rune]

It works wired like any other 8bitdo controller. It doesn't have the weird connector like the NGC kit does

[vapid hawk]

oh right

[lament escarp]

Afaik the division by zero stuff was some extra crap that made the mister freeze when you plugged in the modkit via usb. We notified 8bitdo months ago about the issue but, alas, no update. I can test the reconnction issue when I get home anyway.

[broken creek]

New linux kernel did not fix the Switch mode BT pairing issue with the 8Bitdo N64 modkit. When plugging the controller into MiSTer in Switch mode the system didn't freeze so that's good. The controller wasn't usable wired in Switch mode though.

[green epoch]

it will be interesting to see what kind of controller 8bitdo offers for the 3D

[broken creek]

Probably why they're not in a hurry to fix the kit at the benefit of MiSTer users.

[lament escarp]

That's an enhanced image from the analouge 3d trailer where they teased the controller.

Looks like a brawler clone to me tbh.

[vapid hawk]

yeah i really hope that isn't anywhere near final

[lament escarp]

I tried the brawler and it just feels wrong

[vapid hawk]

i dont understand why people keep putting analog triggers on n64 pads

[broken creek]

Brawler is the worst N64 pad I've owned. Terrible stick, really bad D-pad (no center pivot), weird triggers, bad plastics. It's terrible.

I've seen people recommend it. Boggles my mind.

[vapid hawk]

yeah its among the worst pads i've ever used heh

[lament escarp]

That's why I really like the idea of the modkits, but sadly the execution is pretty hit or miss.

[vapid hawk]

i'm obsessed with the GC kit + blueretro just lately, but yeah it sounds like its not always such smooth sailing

[lament escarp]

I'm honestly suprised blueretro works so well with it, I read in switch mode you have no analog triggers and in dinput you don't have rumble.

[vapid hawk]

yeah i don't know exactly how they pulled it off but they did

[lament escarp]

I'm also amazed that the 1.01 update they sent me isn't public yet. Makes you wonder if only a few dongles are broken or if it's a common issue.

[vapid hawk]

it didn't work right away they did a specific firmware drop for it

i guess it makes sense since it's capable of the same functionality when connected to the 8bitdo GC dongle

[lament escarp]

I wish the n64 kit would support rumble in dinput, then (most) issues would be solved.

[vapid hawk]

i wonder if the n64 kit works so well on blueretro

maybe we could borrow a trick from there

[lament escarp]

Afaik only in dinput and no rumble

[hearty oar]

Yeah this doesn’t fix the disconnect issue, it’s a fix from upstream, I tried pre-porting it a while back and had @lament escarp test it (I don’t have the mod kit), to no avail

Probably should have got it committed back then anyway lol

There’s an issue thread here (in the total wrong repo, but that’s fine lol) https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/issues/856

We actually tried preporting all the fixes from upstream to that driver and it still didn’t help, at least at the time

[lament escarp]

I made my peace without rumble. I read moby dick in the meantime and learned not to chase white whales.

[ivory laurel]

The issue in Madden NFL 2002 is really funny (I think it is exploding polygons)

Looks like a vertex from the butt of the characters models get missplaced

[hollow rune]

You know, with an off-screen screenshot that is blurry and thumbnail sized, I was kind of like that looks like a next-gen Madden game.

But the eyes immediately find the crowd

[hearty oar]

Ooh yeah, looks like a classic vertex explosion, I wonder if this game uses custom RSP microcode or not…

[ivory laurel]

Looks really good actually, nice 480i use

[ivory laurel]

Read somewhere that they pushed it somehow to make that game. Will try to find the reference

[stone pilot]

I bet debugging this sort of thing is absolutely maddening

[hearty oar]

yeah, it's difficult enough debugging these kinds of issues when they come up in an actual game, especially if it's non-deterministic - is it something messing up the vertex buffer on the CPU side, is there a bug in our vertex shader, is the data itself coming in bad, is the index buffer instead, how is it bad, is it the stride, the offset, the length, and so on and so on...

and then yeah, add an emulator into the mix - is it a bug in the game itself, or something in the emulator?

and that's before the madness that is modern GPU-driven rendering...

(ie. draw/dispatch indirect and or mesh shaders)

[broken creek]

No one noticed because it’s the first time Madden has been played on the core.

[covert bough]

i actually learned how football worked by playing madden 02 on the n64 back in the day

[ivory laurel]

I’m learning a lot with NFL Blitz

How bad I am at it that is

[covert bough]

nfl blitz is really fun. It's one I found in the arcade irl and was delighted there was a psx and n64 port to play on mister

it's also nothing like actual football

when I looked it up the wiki said the devs wanted to make the football equivalent of nba jam

and there is a hockey game with a similar jam energy I forget what it's called

[ivory laurel]

I like NBA Jam and Hang time too. Will try to get into Blitz on the weekend. The attract mode looks fun indeed

[rich warren]

Wayne Gretzkey 3D hockey - also from Midway

[covert bough]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Open_Ice#:~:text=NHL Open Ice%3A 2 on,equivalent to Midway's NBA Jam.

this is the one I played

[turbid warren]

BOOM SHAKALAKA

[kind solar]

might be worth holding out on any gc mod kits since nintendo seem to be teasing something new for nso - potentially gc. which could see new oem bluetooth controllers being made

[trail swallow]

Keep in mind, though, if that doesn’t happen, they’ll only release certain games.

If you like playing some obscure third party games, those probably won’t come to the service.

[kind solar]

i'm really more interested in the potential controllers

how many games used the analog triggers? that's the only reason to release a new controller really. sunshine and smash did

[hearty oar]

In both those cases you could probably fix it with the extra shoulder button on the pro controller/joycons

One for light press, one for full press

[kind solar]

i could still see nintendo make them and they would surely sell

[lament escarp]

I'm fine with my modded gc. Nintendo can keep nasty nso for itself.

[kind solar]

i only have 1 official gc controller (the smash ones with the long cable) so i might be tempted by some oem bluetooth controllers

think i'd prefer more smash controllers tho. charging controllers is annoying

[rich warren]

Lots of games used them to varying degrees of necessity.
F Zero GX really needs the analog triggers for later challenges.
Also liked them in Rogue Squadron for flight speed and changing to/from attack position in the X-Wing.
Capcom vs SNK 2 EO used them for hit strength in EO mode.
Wind Waker tap centers the camera while a click locks on.

[hearty oar]

I have so many GC controllers already, but I'm just dumb enough to buy whatever new variants they might put out

although yeah I'd hope they'd still be compatible with the original console, that was at least part of the appeal of the Wii (white) and Smash controllers for me

was pretty stoked to be able to pick up nice fresh controllers (even if the trigger design changed a little)

[kind solar]

i don't think i've seen the wii versions?

the smash one i have is good. much nicer than 3rd party controllers

[hearty oar]

this guy, was actually the precursor to the smash ones, so it has the longer cable and the slightly redesigned triggers

[lament escarp]

By now I have 1 gc controllers built from the best parts of 2 different controllers, 1 that's modded with the modkit (the leftovers of the bad parts) and a smash controller that's still in it's box and my old wavebird that's still in pretty good shape. Guess I'm fine when it comes to gc controllers for a while.

[kind solar]

pretty. never knew about that

[atomic stratus]

I was not aware that wireless GC controllers may be in the cards…guess Nintendo is gonna get more $ from me

[kind solar]

that's just me speculating sorry. they have been talking up the 3 year anniversary of the nso expansion pack, which has been pretty lacking tbh so not sure why they'd draw attention to it. they've also not added any new consoles to it for a while and they were asking for play testers recently for a new service to be added to it

[vapid hawk]

doesn't the switch not support analog triggers (for anything?) i wouldn't bet on nintendo to do the GC triggers correctly on a remake

[mortal panther]

I love that one... and yeah, that cable has quite a bit of length to it.

[chrome quest]

How was the trigger design changed? Never saw that mentioned elsewhere. Was the first (and only) GameCube controller I ever got, so was indeed great for the chance to get a new one that would work for original hardware too

[hearty oar]

They changed the length of the spring and removed the metal bar inside them

[broken creek]

When did those rereleases happen?

[hearty oar]

Wii era, then again for Smash 4 on Wii U, then again for Ultimate on Switch

shows how much I know, apparently there were a lot of subtle revisions to the controller over the years: https://gccontrollerlibrary.com/guides/gamecube-controller-internals-guide/

Triggers were the ones I really noticed though

[broken creek]

Damn, the Cube controller never really died then. Has to be the longest run of a controller.

I guess that explains the Cube controllers with Smash logos on them that I see from time to time. I thought those were custom shells.

[covert bough]

My brother has 4 of the smash gc controllers as most of our original controllers got destroyed from years of neglect. Will absolutely buy an nso one if they release one tho

[hearty python]

It has nothing to do with the ram. DD hadn’t also Not more space. It’s more like the core needs more work to get space free to implement it right. And that only for 10 more games? Could understand Robert not to do this.

[mellow raft]

become the Robert you always wanted to be

Or Robbie. But that's the offbrand

[hearty python]

I am happy with the n64 core we got.

[mellow raft]

That's the spirit!

[lament escarp]

I'm not happy with the n64 core.

I'm ecstatic!

[iron dove]

Hi ecstatic, why are you not happy with the N64 core?

I'll see myself out

[cerulean elk]

I am capturing F-Zero in the core @languid dune just for you lol

six first place finishes in a row baby

[finite quest]

https://x.com/analogue/status/1846567133788147838?s=46&t=A-CKnqbEQ0RWpaQUg75esg

Analogue (@analogue) on X

Introducing Analogue 3D. A reimagining of the N64.

In 4K resolution. Perhaps the greatest multiplayer system of all time. Analogue 3D is the worlds first 100% compatible with every original N64 game ever made. Region Free. Bluetooth LE. Dual-band Wifi. Four original-style

Twitter · Oct 16, 2024, 3:01 PM

[cerulean elk]

"100% compatibility. For the first time ever"

I guess Analogue forgot MiSTer exists 🤣

[ivory laurel]

Now that the core is perfect, they also perfected N64

[cerulean elk]

well ill order it and put it up against MiSTer

granted I wont expect it to arrive for a decade after they have my cash

well I will TRY. Assuming server gets crushed and its impossible

[plush summit]

Apple strategy sucka 😎

[finite quest]

I already forgot too

Friendship ended with n64 core, now Analogue 3D is my new friend

[cerulean elk]

"the first 100% compatible FPGA N64....in a case....from Analogue....no don't look over there...that's imaginary. Itll steal your wallet and knock your daughter up....no seriously MiSTer FPGA doesn't exist! FAKE NEWS. MAKE ANALOGUE GREAT AGAIN"

[mossy vector]

320x237 gloriously upscaled to 4K resolution.

[cerulean elk]

price isnt bad at least

[finite quest]

it's gonna be rendered at 4k

[glass walrus]

220k LE Intel Cyclone 10GX on that thing

the 8bitdo n64 controllers looks nice as well.. wonder if they will only be sold through analogue

[finite quest]

https://www.8bitdo.com/64-controller/

[magic girder]

Bluetooth? 🤢

[glass walrus]

looks that way... all my saffun controllers dongles died, need something more reliable

[cunning cradle]

I am not a fan of the N64 controller but it feels wrong playing Ocarina or Majora’s Mask with anything else.

[jolly turret]

Is there any good reason why controllers are still made with bluetooth connectivity instead of 2.4G?

[magic girder]

Lack of dongle required, wider support, average Joe knows nothing about latency etc

[tidal zenith]

compatibility without dongles

[finite quest]

convenience

I hate dongles

[cerulean elk]

also in big cities 2.4G can suck sometimes

[glass walrus]

wireless phones on 2.4... is that still a thing?

[calm anvil]

The early 2000s called

[rich warren]

not possible - that would require new code or an emulator running internally at 4k (see Golden Eye on the XSX). If this plays original games, it's scaling them up

[glass walrus]

looks like its just a physical n64 replacement with fpga guts, wonder if any other cores will run on it

[cerulean elk]

working on a vid for 4

[jolly turret]

I think the controller looks great, maybe someone will measure the latency to find out if it's performing ok. I'm also curious about the CRT display filters.

[rich warren]

@glass walrus right - might be a "cheaper" scaler then

[cerulean elk]

gonna poke a tiny bit of fun in a light hearted spirit

[finite quest]

what's the problem with the "new code"

they probably made it

[magic girder]

I would be very surprised if it was rendering at 4K

Upscaling/outputting, sure. Rendering seems unlikely though.

[finite quest]

no openFPGA support tho

[vapid hawk]

bluetooth can be fast, 2.4g can be slow. get mad about the slow pads not the choice of protocol

[glass walrus]

those playstation controllers are bluetooth right any they good latency i thought... just their layout sucks

[deft matrix]

yeah, it feels a little like people took that one 8bitdo m30 review and applied it across the board

[vapid hawk]

yeah sony makes possibly the fastest controllers

even on BT they're faster than a lot of 2.4g gear

[languid dune]

This is the controller that I used to play nearly 900 hours of Smash Ultimate with. 😅

[glass walrus]

is bluetooth mutliple controllers per dongle or like 2.4g and need 1 per 1

[vapid hawk]

multiple

up to 7

[languid dune]

10/10 video. Will watch again...and again! ||....and again!!||

[magic girder]

I should rephrase. 8bitdo Bluetooth controllers usually aren’t as fast as their 2.4G ones. But you’re correct

[cunning cradle]

I am not sure if they are slower but I have a lot of issues with the 8bitdo Bluetooth controllers disconnecting from the pocket dock. Zero issues with the 2.4g ones.

[static sky]

In this case, it might be for Switch compatibility. There's rumors of an N64 Eshop coming to that console.

[deft matrix]

there's already N64 virtual console

[sullen harbor]

The rumors are individual purchases not tied to nintendo's online subscription

[finite quest]

but why

[sullen harbor]

Along with the unveiling of possibly gamecube library

[deft matrix]

that doesn't seem likely when they can just bend your arm into paying a sub forever

i'd love to be wrong though

[sullen harbor]

Some complaints from partners. Its why that short release of Fire Emblem 1 was never put on NES VC

[finite quest]

It would still be cheaper than buying games individually

[sullen harbor]

For some

[deft matrix]

depends

[sullen harbor]

for others they just want certain games

50 bucks a year vs paying 20 for zelda

[finite quest]

yeah but you still have access to other systems

like GBA, SNES etc

[sullen harbor]

People don't think like that

People don't really care about libraries so much as individual titles

Gamepass creating a no new games tier is evidence of this

SaaS is a weird thing people dont realize is not nearly as popular as one might believe

[finite quest]

I'm fine with the subscription model

[wanton sun]

where do you have the information from? Can't really imagine that. Big but slow FPGA makes no sense for n64

[finite quest]

from Analogue

[deft matrix]

its on the product page

[glass walrus]

https://www.analogue.co/3d near bottom is tech specs

[wanton sun]

intersting. Have to look if the 10gx is for some reason faster than the other cyclone10 i know. These have been about the same speed as our cyclone 5

[glossy lake]

8bitdo 64 controller doesnt have the 64 controller style… no thanks

[glass walrus]

i could ignore that since it has the correct gate

and button layout

[glossy lake]

I hope the 8bitdo 64 modkit is supported…

[lament escarp]

That gate looks pretty octagonal to me

[lament escarp]

Without rumble

[glossy lake]

Would be nice if that issue got fixed

[covert bough]

this looks like the best 3rd party controller so far

[wanton sun]

speed grade is not known, so it's not clear.

• MLAB: 490/570Mhz vs 350Mhz (+40%/+62%)
• BRAM: 530/625Mhz vs 350Mhz (+51%/78%)
• DSP: 364/456Mhz vs 250Mhz (+45%/82%)
  Can't find LUT/FF speed currently, but probably in the same range. So yes, timing closure should be fairly easy on the FPGA

[glass walrus]

wonder if the gate will actually hit... its hall sticks

[lament escarp]

If it does I'll try and steal it's secrets.

[blissful wolf]

How?

[wanton sun]

I still don't understand why the FPGA is so huge? The mister core is not even half the size

[glass walrus]

says "4 years developing"

[quick light]

I thought like Open Fpga support. But on there website, the N64 analogue isn't supporting open fpga

[covert bough]

so youd have to use a krikzz cart or something to play everything

it is kinda too little too late, thanks to robert

[deft matrix]

or wait for the "definitely not official" exploit

[lament escarp]

Any console cores you could imagine running on that fpga that don't run on mister?

[deft matrix]

no other reason it would have a micro sd slot

well, maybe saves

[covert bough]

i will say the design of the shell is pretty cool, analogue is good at product design

[glass walrus]

get taki to slap that chip on his clones

[wanton sun]

not really. For dreamcast the fabric is probably too slow and for DS there is not enough internal memory

[lament escarp]

Aight so that 3d box is just a worse mister, got it.

[glass walrus]

seems like a cheap modded n64

[wanton sun]

maybe it really has higher res rendering, so the space is required for the additional pixel pipelines?

something like 2x internally (4 times size of RDP) could be possible with that size

[lament escarp]

Like yeah? One hooked up to a rt4k though. But it only runs one core. Which seems bizarre to any self respecting mister owner.

[grave jay]

could the extra logic elements just be for the 4K scaling?

[wanton sun]

not really, a scaler isn't that large

[covert bough]

i mean now that you can get a taki or qm clone for under 200 bucks....

[lament escarp]

Afaik the rt4k has a rather large fpga, rivalling the mister fpga in seize, or at least almost.

[covert bough]

youd have to be an N64 die hard who also doesn't have an original or modded system and not know about mister

[deft matrix]

one of my friends prefers "products", so I think they're interested. but also not in a mister

[wanton sun]

it has all kind of extra features, can take all kinds of external inputs and so on, not really comparable to a single device integrated scaler

[lament escarp]

I get not liking the acrylic cases, they look a bit cheap but the aluminum cases? They're sexier than any console product in the last 20 years imo.

[deft matrix]

I don't understand it either

[cerulean elk]

hey at least their graphic design is on point lol

I did put a few nods to MiSTer in there...like did Analogue forget it existed? 🤣

[glass walrus]

im more excited about the controllers than the console

[magic girder]

Analogue: retro game consoles when playing retro game consoles is retro

Next system is clearly a 2600

[cerulean elk]

MiSTer FPGA looking at Analogue "Am I a Joke to you"? lol

[glass walrus]

it can do something mister cant... load carts

[lament escarp]

At least I'm not the only one who is so thoroughly unimpressed...

[magic girder]

The list of things that MiSTer can do that the 3D can’t is rather longer

I don’t think it’s really a competition though

[jolly turret]

I'm actually quite curious about their display filters, if they implemented filtered audio and how well the controller works, both in speed and accuracy in terms of having correct stick inputs.

[spare meadow]

Maybe 64 DD?

[civic wind]

4K scaling/effects take a good chunk of that fpga

I’m assuming they’re using the same 4k video chip that the morph4k and tink use. Which wants either a double video pipeline, or more likely a quad video pipeline. Which isn’t just the functional video logic, but all the fan out required to get the source pixels everywhere

[sullen harbor]

I'm mixed on it

[civic wind]

Then again, since the n64 pixel clock is so low, they don’t have to 4x a lot of the effects like say HQX smoothing

[wanton sun]

i would have expected something like the mister scaler with double pipeline is enough, which would still stay below 10% of the FPGA

but the price is not bad for the huge part in the end, so maybe it wasn't that important

[hollow orbit]

Wait. Do we not have total fucking glory? I thought that was in the advanced menu?

How could you miss total fucking glory, @wanton sun ? What have you been doing?

[hearty python]

Mike J (replay2) thinks they got a good price to clear the old stock 😂

[hollow orbit]

Is it because my MiSTer doesn't have a glory hole and nowhere to put it?

I thought was why I bought a second RAM

[cerulean elk]

what other games do people want to see?

[versed cairn]

Golden eye might be a fun one!

[deft matrix]

i found the bilinear filter toggle earlier

game changing

[covert bough]

OoT

[jolly turret]

Mario 64

[vast delta]

lol, i came here to basically bash that... how can they blatantly claim original-style N64 gate if they don't even get the basic shape right?

[lament escarp]

C'mon at least compare fpga to ares. Comparing it to nso is like making fun of nso.

[cerulean elk]

haha I did Ares

I am doing a few games on NSO

Ares is boring...I just say "hey its near identical" over and over lol

[vast delta]

unless the renders were not updated (highly doubt it as marketing is their main strength), the stick will indeed be octagonal

heck, a no name wholesaler got it right and 8bitdo didnt

[civic wind]

My perspective might be skewed because pretty much every line buffer in the morph needs to handle 4000 pixels per line. Also if they want to do hdr you need some very large gamma/PQ tables, plus a 36-bit per pixel video pipeline

[lament escarp]

Only excitement I have for the whole thing is that they may or may not update the firmware of the n64 modkit which will may or may not fix some of it's issues.

[vast delta]

that a fair assumption

oh well, i got two of these xyab n64 sticks coming in today

hopefully they have good mechanical design, i plan on trying to improve the electronics

[lament escarp]

Nintendo will sue you for it. They will sue everything eventually, but you're skipping ahead in line. We should call them game karen from now on.

[cerulean elk]

lol like 10% of yesterday's audience just did NOT get the humor in them using emulation at their museum

nuance and humor are lost on 10% of my viewers

[deft matrix]

but what if they used cool in house accurate emulators made by nintendo 😱 i'd like to think they're using bsnes or something

[languid dune]

Wave Race 64 and Mischief Makers!

[lament escarp]

Sure they are. There is nothing moral about their whole emulation fit it's just them thinking they can enforce their eco system by using the legal system.

[languid dune]

Like the guy that was saying "What? What karma?" whoosh!

[wanton sun]

you could for joke include one game that is not available on NSO with a black screen for 5 seconds. No comment (i know, that is difficult for you 😛 )

[lament escarp]

Or make fun that pokemon stadium on nso doesn't have transfer pack support.

[daring meteor]

Pegasus emulation next?

[deft matrix]

adding pokemon rbygsc to the sub service and have it integrate with stadium 1+2 would be such a slam dunk

[magic girder]

MiSTer vs UltraHLE

[cerulean elk]

Haha you never know

[daring meteor]

MiSTer vs Nesticle

[magic girder]

If anything it would make an interesting video on how far we’ve come

[cerulean elk]

The old days. I remember them

[magic girder]

I wasn’t even born then. You’re all old

(I’m kidding)

[jolly turret]

I hlave never been more excited seeing two black boxes race on a track.

[cerulean elk]

Playing N64 via emulation on my laptop in the airport while traveling for work

Or playing cee lo at the airport with friends. We did some weird shit

[fair stump]

Bruh did you just admit to a crime?

[magic girder]

[static sky]

D'oh! Brain freeze on my part.

[lament escarp]

Yeah! Like mister does!

[deft matrix]

exactly!

i should try that actually, i can't be bothered to mess with transfer paks and putting batteries in my carts

[lament escarp]

I'm training all mons to lvl50 right now, 120h in. When I'm done I'll get that surfing pikachu in stadium.

[dusty tusk]

Doduo and dotrio mode were so good for grinding

[marble cargo]

It's simple logic:

Nesticle has a gross fat guy as a mascot.

MiSTer does not have a gross fat guy as a mascot.

The choice is obvious.

[daring meteor]

Exactly

[dense tendon]

An N64 on an fpga? How is this possible?
https://www.analogue.co/3d

[glass walrus]

wish they would make all consoles on fpga then they could sell them forever and never worry about failing parts

how big would some of these console libraries be if they had no end of life

[hearty python]

If there is a market we will seen this

[cerulean elk]

The first FPGA N64 core with 100% retail library compatibility*

(*please forget MiSTer FPGA exists. k thx)

[glass walrus]

i don't seem them mention "core" but what they do have is a nice n64 knockoff like a brazil model back in the day

with some extra perks

what did they call those systems? bootlegs?

[deft matrix]

something like that. I've seen those for MD but not N64

[glass walrus]

maybe bootleg n64 games will start coming out

[magic girder]

tbh I don’t even take issue with them saying it’s the first FPGA core with 100% compatibility if they really do have it. The fact that we need the patches and have to play specific versions of certain games does mean they could have a legitimate claim to that title - but I do suspect Robert would have gotten there first if the DE10 were a little more capable. (I’m also thankful that Ruleset created the patches so we can kinda get there)

But until people have put it through its paces, we won’t know if it really is 100% perfect

[glass walrus]

its probably not a core... seems like n64 is all it will do

[magic girder]

I think “core” just = something that can be flashed to the FPGA, in colloquial speak

[glass walrus]

its a pretty good option to replace a failing n64 if you don't want to go mister

[magic girder]

If it works as they say, definitely

[glass walrus]

i really dislike buying something new that is 30 years old lol... so its nice something is new again

[lean spruce]

Its nice for people with large cartridge libraries. For me even if I´m tempted I´m not sure why I would need one having MiSTer

[hearty oar]

No analogue out is a massive deal breaker for us tube people

[cerulean elk]

I mention that in vid

[lean spruce]

wont it work with their DAC?

[cerulean elk]

4K and crt filters but no analog out

[hearty oar]

Doesn’t even look like they are going to pretend like they are bringing DAC support this time

[cerulean elk]

They’ve abandoned that thing

[lean spruce]

then I´m out lol

[deft matrix]

but there's a CRT on the product page

[remote hatch]

I'm interested in about 5 games from the N64 😂

[glass walrus]

i guess thats why its preorder instead of limited numbers

[deft matrix]

that's dumb

[cerulean elk]

I have a little fun with in the vid

Polite fun. Basically saying I’ll pre order it and I like Analogue…but they pretend MiSTer doesn’t exist

[hearty oar]

Which they use to show you how great their CRT filters are going to be in 4K lol

[deft matrix]

🤡

[magic girder]

I fully expected you to 😄

Contact analogue, they might give you a review unit tbf

[cerulean elk]

Im sure some comments will be unhappy

[lean spruce]

I think Analogue make great products though. Its good that they exist as they target maybe a different audience. I love Kevtris work

[cerulean elk]

I’ve never once heard from analogue on anything

So I don’t expect to hear from them this time either

That being said I don’t ask for things; people find me

[magic girder]

That surprises me. Within this community I’d imagine you’ve got good reach

[magic girder]

Fair

[cerulean elk]

I def do. I get contacted to review a lot of stuff. I just turn down almost all of it

[hearty python]

They are good for the fpga scene. They help to make the FPGAs popular.

[cerulean elk]

But I mean if analogue wants to send one haha. Analogue you reading the chat?

[lean spruce]

thanks to Analogue that I found out about MiSTer

[magic girder]

This. I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for Analogue. I’d never heard of MiSTer until looking into Analogue products

[magic girder]

@AnalogueCo hit up VGE and PCN with review units

[compact depot]

Shipping target date?

[cerulean elk]

Maybe I’ll send an email. Who knows 🤷🏻‍♂️

[hearty python]

Q1 2025 iirc

[compact depot]

AKA MiSTer with Robert’s core 🤭

[lean spruce]

I remember being scolded in the YT comments of an Super NT video where I stated that the Super NT was the best way to play SNES. Somebody corrected me and said MiSTer had greater compatibility. Thats how I learned about MiSTer

[cerulean elk]

Really I’d love to get on the emu handheld mailing lists. Those do views but I can’t just buy all that shit

[compact depot]

Before than MARS! Wow

[glass walrus]

it won't have all the tweaks

[cerulean elk]

I will say I don’t envy Analogue announcing an FPGA N64 in this current “Nintendo would sue your grandma and the pope if they could” environment

Even if they are in the clear stiff rough timing

[compact depot]

That would be some fun to watch lol

[jolly turret]

The 100% game compatibility was probably one of the marketing points Analogue thought they had an advantage over the Mister core.

[lean spruce]

they were very clear about it being legal and not using any bios haha

[hearty oar]

It’s alright, they use magic “no emulation” technology

[cerulean elk]

Nintendo loves to keep talking about “circumvention of protections”

[hearty oar]

…to emulate classic games…

[cerulean elk]

Sure but what about CIC? They’ve gotta deal with that

[compact depot]

That means nothing to Big N lawyers haha

[cerulean elk]

I’m not saying Nintendo had a case. I’m just saying Nintendo don’t give a FUCK if they have a case 🤣

[lean spruce]

true. Dont mess with the Ninjas

[hearty oar]

Yeah I don’t really think they had a case against Ryujinx either, but here we are…

[glass walrus]

offer they couldn't refuse

[cerulean elk]

Yuzu they had a case. The rest is just them flexing their legal muscles and threatening financial ruin to get people to bend the knee

[lean spruce]

I mean they knocked on his door in Brazil... if that doesnt freak you out I dont know what will

[hearty python]

There could do a database for it, the library is small

[cerulean elk]

Exactly. And if Big N gets spicy they could say “circumvention”

That’s their new legal argument. Circumventing protections

[glass walrus]

is cic used to decrypt?

[magic girder]

N won’t care cos it’s not emulation bro

😉

[cerulean elk]

It’s like a key based handshake. I don’t believe it’s decrypting anything. Basic call and response

[glass walrus]

so its basically an id

[cerulean elk]

https://n64brew.dev/wiki/PIF-NUS

Checksum values. So yes just a lock and key handshake

[hearty python]

The advantage is they used real original cardridges, so also the logo is original if it come from the module. Only bios could be a problem. But I guess that analogue is to clever to do a fail here.

[cerulean elk]

But you know if Nintendo felt like it they’d attempt to crush it with whatever argument de jour they have that day

[lean spruce]

as long as they dont come for the FPGA develepments

[hearty python]

I would assume than pocket was gone long ago. I feel more that Nintendo benefit from analogue

[cerulean elk]

They won’t. They want a case that can set precedent. That’s what Nintendo wants…a case their legal team tells them they have a good shot at getting new case law precedents set with so they can alter the trajectory of emulation

It’s a “all upsides, no downsides” situation; if they lose emulation still exists. Nothing changes. If they win they can change it all

[lean spruce]

in some ways its a blessing and a curse that no courtcase have been made against Nintendo and emulation

if they would loose the case, they would have a harder time bullying devs

[cerulean elk]

Nobody is big enough to take them on with an even playing field

[glass walrus]

without all these lawsuits they would just rerelease themselves out of business

[cerulean elk]

You’d need Sony / MS / Valve levels of cash to see a conclusion and those companies won’t end up in a situation where a case would arise in the first place

[lean spruce]

thats the problem, but if somebody did take them on with a cleanroom emulator. They would most likely defeat Nintendo

[cerulean elk]

I’m working on a vid on this

Keeping that Nintendo lawsuit series filled with content

[hushed nova]

clean doesn't matter if you circumvent protection!

and good luck getting judges/juries to view that particular subject with any nuance or sense

[cerulean elk]

Unless any of the circumvention provisions that ALLOW for it would be found to be permissible

That’s the problem with DMCA…24 year old law that walks back what it enforces from one paragraph to the next

[hushed nova]

so I guess the move is to only develop emulators for the library of congress?

[glass walrus]

so if the chip that does the protection is replicated in fpga is that really circumventing?

[lean spruce]

I mean in the end from my point of view, if you are not using Nintendo libraries or bios and you dont provide roms, then Nintendo shouldnt have a case.

[cerulean elk]

DMCA “don’t circumvent protections”

[hushed nova]

yeah well, the law is wiggly enough that your opinion is just that

[cerulean elk]

DMCA next damn paragraph “f) Reverse Engineering.—
(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.”

[hushed nova]

protection is 'ensures this is running on an original console'

[magic girder]

I’d be interested to know what the definition of “protection” is. E.g someone leaves a window open but locks the door, and you go through the window, is that circumventing protection?

[hushed nova]

please don't use metaphors

they're all bad

also fun legal shittiness

is a console game a 'computer program'?

[cerulean elk]

You can circumvent for reverse engineering for interoperability for “independently created computer programs” (emulators)

Or that’s how I read it and how many others do too. But until tested in court it’s just the “grey area”

Is it infringement? Is it allowed? Legal scholars, philosophers and English doctorate holders could read that and all decide something diff

[magic girder]

Literally all language is relating words to other words

[cerulean elk]

Hence why not having a concrete precedent is difficult

[hushed nova]

yes but weird 'if I leave window open....' metaphors in relation to this are just...useless

[cerulean elk]

Exactly. Now you are keying into how hard this is

[lean spruce]

I think its ridiculous that a content provider can sue a customer for what they do with the software they have bought. " It must only be played on our hardware" how is that legal? I buy something I want to be able to do the hell I want with it

[cerulean elk]

Is a video game a computer program? Now you need judges and juries to potentially decide that exact question

[magic girder]

Useless in your opinion, but not useless if you’re trying to explain something to a non-expert - which is kind of where we are here

[cerulean elk]

It gets to the minutiae of the court system; Nintendo even states on their website they don’t consider their games “software”

[magic girder]

Which is kinda the same point here

[hushed nova]

and is the analogue n64 effectively an illegal bootleg n64?

like the only reason it is acceptable is time, really

[cerulean elk]

This is why i genuinely LOVE the law videos and picking through the law itself; I just never went to law school because I couldn’t live life as a “lawyer”…no offense to anyone here that is

[hearty python]

Law is an allways living topic. What today is right, could be tomorrow wrong. Uniform jurisprudence will be ever a dream.

[north lagoon]

Do you think they use Robert's core?
https://www.analogue.co/3d

[cerulean elk]

No of course not

[remote hatch]

it's mazamars core

[plush summit]

People keep saying that, but I never seen a confirmation of it

[remote hatch]

then just ask him about it 🙂

[plush summit]

Did he confirm it himself?

[cerulean elk]

Analogue’s core was made by a dude from Austria. His name is Fobert. Goes by the username FPGAJoyStuff

(To anyone who doesn’t realize it I’m joking haha)

[remote hatch]

I do not know , that is why I write that if you have doubts ask him about it. What remains without doubt is that he made a fully working n64 core a long time ago.

probably everything will become clear soon

[plush summit]

Last I heard, he probed almost everything but still had ways to go, and he used a different board

Im pretty sure Analogue made theirs from scratch

[remote hatch]

But it is definitely not core from Robert 😄

[weak hill]

maybe cause the os done for that?

[cerulean elk]

Odds are half that part choice is down to BOM and what they had access to in bulk at good rates

[last wraith]

What are you guys telling saying that parallell to Robert’s work on the N64 mister core there’s been another dude working on a different N64 FPGA core?

That’s very interesting.

Especially to compare it to the mister core.

And if it’s 100 percent

[compact depot]

This one, allegedly: https://www.ultrafp64.com/

[hearty oar]

For sure will be benefiting from the research they’ve posted on n64brew, which is awesome

[karmic sequoia]

literally zero chance of nintendo ever taking action against analogue for anything comparable to the stuff they produce currently lol

like it sucks how zealous nintendo is overall at enforcing "IP" laws but they also have a good legal team which means they're actually pretty selective in their approach

[random girder]

Bit late to the discussion. Now that I have a MiSTer I have no interest in getting the 3D, but I do really like the design. They knocked it out of the park.

[karmic sequoia]

it's a solid product imo

[random girder]

MiSTer just plays so nicely with my PVM and RT4K that the 3D's 4K output seems like a downgrade to me. Dunno if that makes sense. Direct video seems like a better output.

[karmic sequoia]

i think "owning a RT4K" is the exact precise situation that makes it very hard to see value in this device for a mister owner lol

unless you really care a lot about N64 save states, i guess

[random girder]

I guess it's kinda an elitist take from me, like many people would be happy with a 4K N64.

(But they should stop being peasants and get an RT4K haha)

[karmic sequoia]

i think many people will in fact be very happy with it. someone in the platforms channel suggested it won't sell out immediately and that's a crazy crackers suggestion lol

[random girder]

I'm going to order the controller. I doubt it will sell out, but hoping to get one either way.

I imagine they'll make a retro receiver for N64 soon.

[karmic sequoia]

the controller at least is gonna assuredly stay in production for a while. i will absolutely get one... and use it on MiSTer lol

i own so many friggin 8bitdo controllers, good lord

[random girder]

Same. I don't even want to count at this point.

[cerulean elk]

Haha I mention that in the vid

Basically said “or for basically a grand…” and show it all on screen

Then said something along the lines of “but I bet everyone likes $250 more”

[karmic sequoia]

i think i am at: a 2.4G ultimate on my PC, a bluetooth/2.4G ultimate on my mister, two pro2s hooked up to my PS2, another pro2 hooked up to my kid's PC, a lite synced to the switch, and two ultimate cs that aren't hooked to anything (though those might go to the switch too if i need more pro controllers at some point ig)

[hushed nova]

it's a shame the 4k situation is kinda crap for anything 'open source'. makes it more expensive

[karmic sequoia]

it really sucks yeah

[karmic sequoia]

i gave my count to the friend who got me onto them in the first place and she listed her inventory:

I have one of every controller they’ve released, and then duplicates from when they released hall effect updates, and each color of the sn30 pro+ and pro2

[spare meadow]

I think Robert’s N64 core achievement 100% compatibility last Christmas

[karmic sequoia]

tbf they almost surely planned out this whole campaign before the mister core was close

[random girder]

I'm tempted to get a hall effect SN30 Pro.

[karmic sequoia]

do it

i am resisting the temptation to replace EVERYTHING i have with hall sticks but the temptation is certainly there

[finite quest]

From https://www.analogue.co/support/resource/3d-faq

Can I use the original 64DD with 3D?
The 64DD disk drive cannot be directly mounted to 3D.

[hearty python]

I could assume that they have taken a look 👀

[cerulean elk]

go see the mister jokes on #share-media

[finite quest]

we already know everything

[ivory laurel]

Quake 2

[finite quest]

Mario Tennis

[trail swallow]

Wow, the difference in JFG really looks night and day

[cerulean elk]

NSO loves that "improvements via emulation" route

[eternal ravine]

PSX and N64 can really benefit from SW emulation

I think I've also seen 2x scaling for Saturn?

[trail swallow]

I saw a video of someone plaging Burning Rangers in 4K on Yabause once

I still prefer the original res with scanlines, though

It’s really nice having all the deblur features on the N64 core

[eternal ravine]

N64 and PSX are where SW emulation gets pretty appealing to me

[trail swallow]

PSX emulation can benefit from eliminating texture warping

[eternal ravine]

[trail swallow]

The N64 really was the best graphically of the three, if you remove the vaseline smear

Saturn has its issues due to being rushed out the door and Sega hastily adding a 3D chip, but I think its 3D graphical capabilities are underrated. A lot of people say it “couldn’t do 3D,” but looking at a comparison of the first Need for Speed game on Saturn and PS1, I honestly prefer how it looks on Saturn.

[deft matrix]

i like texture warping

[eternal ravine]

Popping and locking

https://tenor.com/view/chappelle-poplock-breakin-gif-8624270

[hearty oar]

It had what is essentially a programmable vertex pipeline, hardware T&L, mip-mapping, anti-aliasing, yeah it was vastly more forward looking than anything else at the time, no question of that

[cerulean elk]

You mean 3DO M2 I think lol

[hearty oar]

Who could forget lol

[cerulean elk]

All those features plus mpeg decoding and 700k polygons with all effects vs the N64s 150k average baby

[hearty oar]

(…me, I forgot about it completely)

[cerulean elk]

lol I’ll sneak M2 convos in anywhere

[hearty oar]

How about of consoles that actually released then, lol

[finite quest]

dat ass

[deft matrix]

excellent removal of the Nintendo Logos there

[finite quest]

bootleg

[hearty oar]

bootleg for a bootleg clone console

the most premium of the famiclones

[storm vessel]

Are you only using HDMI direct?

[cerulean elk]

Huh?

[cerulean elk]

No analog is def a bummer

[finite quest]

that's why it's "only" 250$

[last wraith]

I just wish there were more 2D games released on the N64. It had good potential. Just look at Wonder Project J2. Instead what we have is mostly 3D games that have aged pretty badly

I can’t honestly count many games that I would say have aged really well graphically on N64. But there are several on PSX and Saturn

[magic girder]

Personally I think the N64 games have often aged better than the PS1

But it's a smaller library, so it makes it hard to get a high absolute number of amazing looking games

[neat sierra]

N64 in 4k

[mortal panther]

"...and here's how much it will cost."

[short shell]

my biggest issue with the n64 is 90% of the library being like 18fps

[magic girder]

You need to slow your eyes down

I played perfect dark on the stock core for the first time the other day, after hearing how bad the framerate was. Didn't see a problem. You've all been spoiled by modern framerates 😉

[fair stump]

If you don't want the authentic framerate then just emulate it on pc at 120 fps

[last wraith]

lol it’s awful choppy

[magic girder]

I appreciate the option of the turbo core, but I often prefer to use the stock just for authentic slowdown. Same reason I don't enable turbo on other cores either. Maybe I'm weird

[fair stump]

That's me too usually

[last wraith]

It’s a fun game. Too bad they didn’t release it on the GC instead. Which was just around the corner

[magic girder]

Slowdown on master system sonic has caused deaths on many occasion and frustrated me - but that's how it was back in the day

It also often acts as a warning that an enemy is about to come onto the screen 😅

[neat sierra]

Nah me too, it’s not weird it’s why I use mister and not software emus. If I want to play a fantasy system I can do that anywhere

[hearty oar]

I too am a sucker for authenticity

...he said, plugging his MiSTer into his PVM via RGB, exactly like we all had back in the day

[neat sierra]

Right on settles back into his chair with a wireless controller

[magic girder]

Yeah, there's no way I can use a wired controller nowadays

[cerulean elk]

Good thing Bomberman Hero has a great framerate

[magic girder]

Every time I skip past it on my list of games, I think of you 😂

[trail swallow]

I think most age quite well visually, if you remove the Vaseline smear. The framerate is the area where I think a lot of games don't age well visually, but that was true for all three 5th gen consoles.

[weak hill]

diddy kong racing

[trail swallow]

And thankfully, the N64 turbo core fixes that

...mostly

[weak hill]

coult it be resolved with good result with a hdmi to svideo converter?

[trail swallow]

Unfortunately, for some games, the devs applied this trick that makes you move faster when the game slows down. DK64 is the most well-known example IIRC. So, when played overclocked, some segments are quite a bit more difficult. Like those two beetle races. However, I'd still take that over slowdown, personally.

[storm vessel]

Meant so say, are you only using the core’s direct HDMI non-filter feature (whatever the name is)

[bitter fjord]

The Morph4K works for this usecase too and is more affordable

Not that I don't like the Tink4K, but if your only goal is to upscale Direct Video from MiSTer, it makes more practical sense as far as value/price per features go

The Tink4K starts making sense if you also use the analog inputs imo

[bitter fjord]

I think they probably meant over software emulation.

But yeah, the n64 core on MiSTer has been boasting 100% compatibility for a while

Though some games had to be manually patched until recently

[bitter fjord]

They can just implement their own custom PIF code, nothing too fancy

[cerulean elk]

Sure but even then if Nintendo felt like being assholes they could take umbrage with that as “circumvention”…just because it’s a crappy worded law and isn’t anything “circumvention” if you look at it from the right (Nintendo’s) angle

[bitter fjord]

I am guessing the FPGA handles both the n64 core and the 4K scaling at the same time.

The fact that you can't run custom cores is a huge waste imo

[bitter fjord]

Except "copy protection" is done by the CIC. That's on the cartridge

So if you are using original carts, you aren't circumventing anything

And if you use a flashcart, that's not really Analogue's problem

[cerulean elk]

Oh I agree. I’m just saying…if Mario is mad he just makes shit up to ruin your day

[bitter fjord]

Obviously they can just send a mountain of lawyers and drawn you in legal fees

I don't think they'd care too much about n64 though

[cerulean elk]

3DO wins again

[bitter fjord]

I'd buy a 3DO M2 FPGA clone 🤡

[karmic sequoia]

yeah as i was saying earlier, nobody who does law for Nintendo is going to let them start a fight over this

[bitter fjord]

To be fair though, an Hyper Neogeo 64 core would be neat for preservation alone

[compact depot]

Hey @bitter fjord 👋

How’s Paprium dumping process going?

[bitter fjord]

To be fair though a 220K LE FPGA that can only run a n64 core is pretty much glorified e-waste to me, there could have been so many possibilities/features it could have, but no, they had to lock it down, probably so they could sell a ps1 system next with the same FPGA or something...

[bitter fjord]

I haven't worked on it in the last few months, I had killed my only megadrive. I managed to get a couple more from YAJ but I haven't had the time to resume work on this

[compact depot]

Hopefully you can get back to it soon

[karmic sequoia]

oh you're doing paprium stuff?

[compact depot]

In Math we trust! 🙏

[bitter fjord]

I wanted to glitch the stm chip to bypass the security bit check, but it requires double glitching it seems and if I do it wrong I blank the chip

And I only have one cart xD

[compact depot]

What level is the lock?

I know that level 2 or something is unglitchable?

[bitter fjord]

Nothing is unglitchable xD

[compact depot]

Thats my man 🤣

[karmic sequoia]

curious to hear more about this in uhhg #games-and-patches i guess if you are interested in sharing a bit about what you've done

[compact depot]

Oh, a piracy channel! Lovely!

[bitter fjord]

In fact, if I had about 20ish carts to sacrifice, I would have the code right now. I programmed a batch of STM32 and I could get successful glitching on the 14th attempt

Which also means I blanked the 13th previous test chips xD

Given how paprium carts are kind of unobtainium, the success rate is kinda too low to my tastes

[compact depot]

Is the stm only for the advanced audio or is it responsible for any critical stuff?

[bitter fjord]

It's just for the fancy audio tracks

In fact you could probably bypass it entirely by implementing your own custom decoder

[compact depot]

I would say screw the fancy audio and let’s play the vanilla rom haha

[bitter fjord]

Pretty sure that's been dumped by multiple groups

[compact depot]

Do you have the rom dump already?

[bitter fjord]

You just need to remap it properly

Which nobody did publicly

[compact depot]

Hopefully the rom gets in the wild soon so we can give some fun to our talented rom hackers around here 😁

[bitter fjord]

There are multiple ways to dump the rom, the easiest is just too sniff the cart bus as the game is playing

You could probably read the chip directly too

But afaik it's been dumped already so I didn't bother

[cerulean elk]

I can get you access to some if you really need it

[bitter fjord]

I would rather not kill perfectly functional cartridges if I can help it xD

[cerulean elk]

I gotta remember who it is that has them lol. Dig through messages

[topaz otter]

whats the appeal of bomberman

he's a man and he plants bombs, is that it

[civic wind]

Bomberman 64 4 player is fun

[cerulean elk]

So was the Unabomber. Look how that turned our

[topaz otter]

wow Awbacon, just wow

https://tenor.com/view/owen-wilson-wow-marley-and-me-smooth-hd-hq-gif-977282450591946462

[cerulean elk]

I’m sick. I’m in a mood 🤣

Wife gave me her damn cold

Too many DayQuil and gin shooters for VGE today

[trail swallow]

Naw, I’d love to hear a VGE talking about how Super Bario 64 and Jet Force Jebini compare on the MiSTer and NSO.

I hope someone got my joke

[cerulean elk]

I did 😂

I’m surprised nobody noticed in the analogue 3D vid. My voice was starting to give up

[mortal panther]

I just received e-mail from Analogue approximately 30 minutes ago telling me "The Future Is Here"... but it feels like the past now.

[trail swallow]

Well, look at that

[hearty oar]

The future is now old man

[trail swallow]

It’s funny, the 3 servers I’m active in are all shitting on Analogue today

[twin barn]

Analogue platform discussion in #fpga-platforms please

[kind solar]

He’s finally doing it

I’d like to see Mario kart though just bc that’s what made me realise how much better the mister core looked and played

[last wraith]

Quake! That game got in game toggle for a filter

[weak hill]

do you think analogue 3d has turbo function hidden? hahahaha

like the turbo core?

i read a comment, saying that if it will stay 15 to 20 fps, its not worthy, specially you guys that have tried the turbo core, is just better experience i guess

[worldly quartz]

I'm just glad this core exists or I might have considered gettingg the 3d

[vapid hawk]

is the 3d going to have openFPGA on it?

[twin barn]

Analogue3d discussion in #fpga-platforms please

[worldly quartz]

so does t he core really have 100% compatibility/can finish all games at this point?

Awbacon's video claims this has 100% compatibility

[twin barn]

No, I think there was just one mahjongg game that is unplayable.

[worldly quartz]

yeah that's the one I know that still crashes

[twin barn]

Other than that everything else is playable now.

Afaik

And a couple games still need patches maybe

[worldly quartz]

yeah at least I've mostly ditched my n64 for this core

[vapid hawk]

there's that rare crash on rayman2, its still completable though

[worldly quartz]

well plays dreamcast version via vga

[vapid hawk]

probably better all round yeah

i find it one of the most technically impressive n64 games though

its actually got a decent framerate

[worldly quartz]

all though is rayman 1 worth finishing

game got hard quickly

doesn't help I was playing on a fucking palm m130

[vapid hawk]

lol

play on the psx core with save states or cheats 🙂

[worldly quartz]

or worse gba

[odd walrus]

What other servers besides this one are shitting on them? I'm curious now

[trail swallow]

The RetroTink server, and another server for a YouTuber I watch.

[odd walrus]

Oh the retrotink server, that makes sense

It's just interesting to hear people's opinions and reactions to this news

but I'll shut up now, I know I should be talking about this in a different channel

[tender pine]

Hi. Could somebody help me? I've heard great things about the N64 Saffun controller. Had anybody got or familiar with it?

[last wraith]

The deblur is game changer in some games

[tender pine]

Wireless N64 Controller, 2.4GHz mit USB-Receiver N64 Empfänger, Remote Gamepad Joystick kompatibel mit N64 Konsole, Windows PC MAC Raspberry PI Switch (Grau) https://amzn.eu/d/boaIQEl

Also. This isn't going under the name Saffun but looks identical so was wondering/hoping if it would perform identical. Anybody?

[last wraith]

I havent tried the Saffun but I've only heard good about them. There are some complaints though regarding the joystick

[vapid hawk]

has anyone checked if you can swap the stick on the saffun for a real one

[last wraith]

I dunno why they are having such a hard time replicating the stick

[tender pine]

Nobody then know if the linked controller is the Saffun one in all but name?

[tender pine]

Because it was and still is genuinely special.

The N64 stick/controller used optical sensors. Smooth AF.

[chrome quest]

I don't have one, but my recollection is that there are a bunch of similar looking controller listings on the various Amazons of the world, that are theoretically the exact same thing....?
Best bet might be searching on the Discord search.

[tender pine]

Discord search @chrome quest ? Forgive me being a noob here.

[chrome quest]

I think it may be a case of perhaps no-one else making quite that form of controller. But Amazon being Amazon, at some point you get a million knock of listings

Yeah, just search for saffun, with media links say. It's come up very often. You may luckily find the same one referenced

Unless someone else answers now in chat in the meantime

[tender pine]

Nobody is answering. I think actually I'm just going to stick exclusively to OEM controllers via snac or raphnet. Least then I know I'm not compromising.

P.S those 8bitdo controllers to be released alongside the Analogue N64 look bloody awful.

[zinc dew]

I have a Saffun clone. In actuality there’s no “original” variant of that controller. I think the NSO manufacturer sold development schematics to a bunch of third parties and they all make variants off that. That’s extremely common with Chinese manufacturing.

[last wraith]

but the NSO dont have any replacement stick atm right?

[zinc dew]

Don’t think so

[last wraith]

ITS ALL a SHitter

[glass walrus]

They work good. Both the recievers died on mine and i wasnt able to find replacements without getting more controllers

[tender pine]

Yeah. That seems to be the gene consensus. Great controllers but lousy receivers. I think having done research I'll stick with OEM controllers via snac/raphnet interface.

[weak hill]

cant enter to that discussion room, why?

[twin barn]

check your channels and roles you signed up for

it's part of off-topic

[weak hill]

im in now, thanks

[vocal storm]

Oof. Got that to look forward to, apparently. Amazing so far, though.

[last wraith]

@cerulean elk release the video already ffs

[cerulean elk]

What video?

[last wraith]

The blur comparison on n64 games

Thought you were planning one yesterday

[cerulean elk]

I’m working on stuff for the future

I have seven vs NSO comparisons made. They will start rolling out soon

First one probably Sunday

[lament escarp]

Pls call Nintendo "game karen" at least once. I want to make it stick.

[cerulean elk]

I have one more VO to do so I’ll try to fit it in

Sick currently so holding on VOs

[lament escarp]

I gotcha. I'm a bit irritated by Nintendo currently so I want to take my impotent revenge by calling them names.

[elfin depot]

I gotchu

[random girder]

I'm playing an actual Pokemon Red cart on MiSTer via N64. What a time to be alive.

[obtuse estuary]

Interesting. It seems that you can run the Analogue 3D faster. But no classic overclocking. Seems more like the technical approach of the iQue which I’ve never heard before.

For iQue context: https://retroactive.be/personal/ique/

MiSTer N64 Turbo Core is OC?

[native mesa]

I am pumped for the cotroller. https://www.8bitdo.com/64-controller/

[fair stump]

At first glance I don't get why they didn't go with the three prong style

That was a big difference for me when switching from a normal controller to the saffun

But maybe I'd think this is fine since they've copied the layout of the a,b, and c buttons

[random girder]

I think it will never feel authentic, but hopefully it's good in its own way.

[fair stump]

The n64 really has a spectrum of how authentic a controller you want to use

[vapid hawk]

is that controller really noticably more exciting than the brawler64 that already exists ?

i don't really get why people are excited about it its the most boring default n64 pad you could imagine

[random girder]

For me it is. I can't stand the weird angle of the A and B buttons on the Brawler64 haha.

[vapid hawk]

hadnt noticed that difference, fair. (for the record i actually hate the brawler so the more differences the better)

[glass walrus]

is brawler64 usb or bt?

[last wraith]

i wonder if that overclocking is just mumbo jumbo from Analogue or if it will really work the way its described. That company can never be trusted after the Pocket DAC DISASTER

[manic basin]

There are both, but the original BT/USB is discontinued I believe. Last I checked. So the NSO compatible one is their flagship and you can run it wired or BT. However, the instructions are kind of awful in the box, so go to the website for the more updated, slightly less awful ones.

It also supports Pro and N64 mappings with a button press, which is nice on Switch.

[trail swallow]

Keep in mind, the Brawler64 doesn’t really have the most accurate analog stick reading. It’s unfortunately the case with 90% of third-party/aftermarket N64 controllers.

[vapid hawk]

assuming 8bitdo does better yeah thats a good point

was it good on the n64 BT kit they made

[trail swallow]

The StrikerDC, their Dreamcast controller, is weird. Some games, like Sonic Adventure, holding straight up makes your character veer slightly to the left. However, Toy Story 2, which is pretty much impossible to control with the OEM controller, is entirely fixed with the StrikerDC.

[trail swallow]

I’m sure they will. Judging from the 2 Retro Fighters pads I own, they tend to have analog stick issues, and feel kinda cheap and plastic-y. Like you could break them if you squeeze too hard.

Oh wait, I have 3

Their PS3 controller is really cool, mainly because DualShock 3’s are a huge pain in the ass to maintain.

[vapid hawk]

we all saw how long it took us to get the n64 stick right and we're highly motivated, hopefully 8bitdo is too

8bitdo make a ps3 controller?

[trail swallow]

Retro Fighters

[vapid hawk]

oh nice, they've been on a streak lately

their xbox pads are nice aswell

[trail swallow]

8BitDo always makes really quality-feeling controllers. I think I have 5 of them.

So, I’m optimistic about their new N64 pad.

The main issue with a lot of third-party N64 controllers, is they don’t account for the range of motion not being an equally-sided octagon.

I assume Nintendo made the stick like this so diagonals are easier to do.

[vapid hawk]

they were the only ones who went for a gated stick and they stuck with it up through like...wii?

though i think the shape of the octogon changed from pad to pad

[junior pine]

I've seen many pics like this on the channel (some kind of N64 analog joystick test I guess?) and I ALWAYS think it's a picture of Elite on the BBC Micro until I focus on it 😄

Don't tell me it doesn't look like Elite... it does

[trail swallow]

Never heard of this, but yeah, it really does look like that lmao

[junior pine]

You have an excellent BBC Micro core on the MiSTer so you can enjoy the game today, sir

[trail swallow]

It’s a homebrew software that lets you measure your analog stick’s movement, to see how accurate it is. Also helpful for worn-out OEM controllers.

[trail swallow]

Sweet

[junior pine]

Yep, that was more or less my guess

[trail swallow]

I had no idea the BBC licensed a computer holy shit

[vapid hawk]

it was part of a big computer education drive

[junior pine]

Yes it did, there's a VERY interesting story behind the thing, and in fact the whole ARM architecture begun on a BBC Micro expansion

In fact, ARM = Acorn Risc Machines, where Acorn are the makers of the BBC Micro

[vapid hawk]

computer in every classroom, computer lessons broadcast on latenight tv and stuff too

[junior pine]

There's a docu-drama called MicroMen on the BBC Micro story that's really goofy and good at the same time

[worn delta]

Anyone of a certain age in the UK has fond memories of the excitement when it was your class' turn to get the big BBC wheeled into the class for a few days. I remember when I was about 7 in the early 90s and I got to play the text adventure game versions of The Worst Witch and Stig Of The Dump.

[vapid hawk]

did you have that drawing thing too

it was like a robot you put a pen in then programmed it to drive around drawing

it could do basic loops so you could get it to draw like spirals and stuff

[thin vault]

It was, then it was briefly Advanced RISC Machines, and now it's just "arm"

The BBC Micro was a very popular computer in schools in the UK, followed by the Acorn Archimedes machines

You can still run the Acorn Archimedes operating system on a modern arm SBC, like a Raspberry Pi

https://www.riscosopen.org

[quick light]

There's also a port of Elite on the NES too.

I picked up the cartridge a few years ago when I saw that game on some documentary.

[weak hill]

interesting

[topaz otter]

I have a hard time believing this dude

but I'm willing to give him a shot if he can deliver

but this "we made a magic overlocking button for N64 games" smells like snake oil gimmickry

because as I understand it, the two main bottlenecks are the latency of the Rambus ram and the the buffer fill rate in the Reality Co-processor

[mossy vector]

They made the bus wider is my guess

[topaz otter]

I mean I guess when you think about it, its virtualized hardware at the end of the day right, its not real. One approach is to do like Robert did and come as close as you can to the original hardware barring the limitations of the fpga platform you're on.

and I guess the other approach is what if we had unlimited time, money, and resources and a platform that is significantly more powerful. So we'll "fix" the limitations of the original system.

this is where its going to divide people I think. This is just the emulation argument all over again, half of people are going to say make it as close to the original experience as possible because of nostalgia, and the other half are going to say why can't it run in HD resolution at 60fps if we have the techonology to do it

this is just the ship of theseus. You aren't playing the original N64, when all the parts are changed you're playing frankenstein's monster

[plush summit]

I have better faith that the MiSTer core will still be consistently improved and maintained better than the 3D

[hearty oar]

it sounds like they are taking a similar approach, which is accuracy for the original experience first, then an optional improved experience (ala the turbo core for MiSTer), which is a good thing

[weak hill]

have they done that, in previous console releases?

[hearty oar]

they typically are known for the former at least

this is probably the first system they have attempted where the latter would even apply...

[topaz otter]

judging from a lot of the comments on this board, analogue has a reputation for ripping people off

[hearty oar]

haha, that too

100% compatibility is a bit of a bold claim too, given their track record (accurate, but not that accurate, they usually have a few bugs when they release, and yeah a few longstanding ones IIRC)

although yeah, I should probably stop harping on Analogue in this channel, it's more of a topic for #fpga-platforms

[lilac portal]

Are Kevtris cores for the various platforms as accurate as the MiSTer implementations?

[plush summit]

Well, Analogue cores work fine but MiSTer cores are constantly getting improved

[hearty oar]

I would rate MiSTer's more highly just because yeah, if you find something that is actually inaccurate on real hardware you can communicate to the core developers and they will most likely actually look into it

Analogue is an impenetrable corporate wall, you'll never hear back from them even acknowldeging if something is missing/wrong

[plush summit]

Yeah, Analogue doesn't need to improve their NES/SNES/MD cores if retail games "work"

[weary beacon]

Controller looks interesting, think I'll wait until some people get it in their hands first though before ordering though.

[wanton sun]

seems a bit strange. Overclocking will improve performance for sure. He already knows himself that only improving rambus speed will not help with every game ("which is often the bottleneck"). The turbo core on mister does both: overclocking all relevant internal chips AND the ram interface. Because overclocking the ram interface is rambus speed 🙂

[lament escarp]

I'm actively trying to change my view of the analouge 3D. Instead of being thoroughly unimpressed because it does nothing we already have I take it as a baseline and try to be even more impressed on what Robert achieved on MiSTer. Thank you for the countless hours of fun and nostalgia you blessed us with @wanton sun

[trail swallow]

After looking more into the 8BitDo N64 controller, I unfortunately found out the octagonal gate is equal on all eight sides. So, it will have the same issues the majority of third-party controllers have with movement range. The only third-party controller I can think of that stayed true to the N64’s gate was the Hori pad.

If you notice, the diagonal corners are slightly more outward, giving it an almost square-like shape.

[vapid hawk]

i think the tribute64 2.4g also gets it right (its inspired by the hori)

[trail swallow]

Part of the reason people started thinking Super Mario 64’s controls weren’t great was because they were playing on the Wii Virtual Console, and the Classic Controller, while a great controller, doesn’t quite handle N64 games properly. This got even worse with Wii U Virtual Console and the Gamepad’s circular gate.

[trail swallow]

It actually doesn’t! It’s really shocking they tried to replicate such a famous controller, but didn’t get that one thing right.

One thing I will give 3D All-Stars credit for, is the devs actually tweaked the controls in SM64 to make them work properly with modern controllers.

So, you’re actually much better off playing that version than playing it on NSO (albeit, it is the Shindou version…).

[storm vessel]

Wait, so the 8 directions aren’t the same length? 🤯

[wanton sun]

well, to be honest, it's sometimes frustrating....working for months to make things run as close as possible and then someone comes around the edge who doesn't have these hardware limitations and doesn't have to spend all that time to work against and just tells you: i'm better.
Even worse: many will only see the end product and agree

[storm vessel]

Is there a chance that their 4K output is actually true 4K?

[chrome quest]

That frustration is relatable Robert, but I hope it's fair to say your contributions will ultimately matter a lot more to people for example in the preservation scene too. Your core is amazing, and you've fed back all that open source knowledge. Hopefully you are really proud of all you've done with core. Thank you so so much

[lament escarp]

And we tell you "you're better". The analouge 3d may or may not have the edge when it comes to n64, but what about psx and gba? Not to mention all the other cores by other devs. Also, mister being entirely open source keeps the product assholery of many corporations out. So thanks not only for the great core, but also for being a great dude, just having fun with us and hanging out.

[trail swallow]

Yeh. I believe it’s so you can reach the diagonals more easily.

[storm vessel]

New N64 knowledge, nice 😃

[vapid hawk]

you've beaten analogue to market twice now despite them having a head start both times, i wouldn't feel bad

actually 3, or 4 times ? i forgot lynx/wonderswan

[wanton sun]

Thank you 🙂 You know I'm personally more than happy with the result and also with the great response here in the channel from everyone, so I wouldn't let this bring me down.

[ivory laurel]

There’s a page where Mazamars have some details on his core (which I’m assuming is what Analogue is shipping). He mentions lots of architecture changes and some overclocking figures

http://www.ultrafp64.com/

I’m very pleased with your core, Robert. Matches original hardware and improves a lot on top of it

Having played a lot on the original console back in the day, it feels right at home doing it on Mister

[magic girder]

You absolutely smashed it! The fact that you did so on such an underpowered board is a massive achievement

Also… MiSTer doesn’t have a marketing budget so it can’t shout about how accurate so many of its cores are

[storm vessel]

Every time analogue has said it’s 100% perfect, it never has been. They make nice stuff but it’s never exactly as advertised.

[storm vessel]

Your cores are awesome and have brought so many people so much joy. Thanks again 🙏😃

[random girder]

Yeah, Pocket still has bugs in GB games. Not sure if they ever claimed 100% compatibility though.

[storm vessel]

Can’t be bothered to go to their site but they like to toot the 100% on a lot of things on their products. One that bothered me a lot was a sound effect in Chrono Trigger.

[random girder]

Fun fact, the sound being messed up in Densha de Go for GBC means that Analogue is using a GBA sound core for GB/C games.

It’s also messed up on real GBA hardware.

[willow linden]

Unless people have a decent N64 cartridge collection, won't they have to also buy an everdrive? That alone will drive up the overall cost of someone getting the Analogue from scratch

the entire reason I learned about the mister and went all in with it was when I was about to pull the trigger on getting an original N64 console/everdrive/retrotink

that was late last year when the core was really taking off

so for the same price i now have basically the entire history of gaming up to n64/ps1/saturn at my fingertips 😄

[kind solar]

no way better. they've had to design this console around the n64 not use off the shelf parts anyone can buy. and you beat them to it

does anyone have this controller? does it work with the core?

[last wraith]

Question is if it will be possible to play the games directly from the SD memory?

[hearty oar]

This is the frustrating thing with Analogue…the answer is probably, thanks to “jailbreak” firmware, but you never know for sure

Ie. a while back a significant update released for the mainline Super NT and Mega Sg, but it took a while for the jailbreak firmware to catch up, and it wasn’t clear if the jailbreak firmwares actually would, at least for a time

They never announce these things ahead of time so it would be bad to buy one on the assumption that it might eventually let you do that

[last wraith]

doesnt the Analogues PC Engine allow for booting games from SD memory?

[kind solar]

it will probably be >3 years before it's both released, not sold out and the jailbreak is available

at which point maybe we have a cheaper rt4k or a even a mister successor who knows

[last wraith]

Wait so the launch date isn’t out yet?

[compact depot]

TIVOized N64 core wen

[compact depot]

They just need the time to adjust Robert’s core to their hardware. Taking 3 years for that only proves their technical incompetence

[zinc dew]

I’m the target market for the Analogue N64, with over 200 N64 carts

[compact depot]

Shameless Robby!

[zinc dew]

honestly if I didn’t have a mister I’d probably buy it

[lament escarp]

If I didn't have a mister I'd buy a mister.

[tender pine]

Can I make a suggestion? It's just a suggestion and something I have been thinking on since Analogue announced pre-orders for it's N64 product.

I won't lie. Said announcement turned my head. The disposable nature of our society which we are responsible. Myself included.

Anyway, my suggestion is instead of whatever money you are willing to throw at Analogue next week as pre-orders open, instead consider using said money and contributing to @wanton sun via his patreon.

This is a guy who has given us not just said impossible N64 core but PSX and GBA as well, also never locked it behind a pay wall.

[neat sierra]

The patreon stopped accepting donations a while ago, nice sentiment though. Supporting open source projects with the code available is actual preservation unlike any closed source cores or ecosystems which have other motivations

[zinc dew]

ok true 😂

[errant steppe]

The n64 theyre releasing is cool and all. But it’s $250-300 for only an n64. There wont be any support for more cores, and it doesn’t have analog output. To me thats dead in the water. I have a pocket for the handheld form factor but i would never consider the 3D over the mister

[zinc dew]

I am not convinced it will be as good as the MiSTer core

[lament escarp]

I'm also curious on whether it will support the transfer pack. I reckon only via snac or whatever they call the original n64 ports on that thing. But I doubt it will be as robust and fluent as on mister between the gb and n64 core.

[green epoch]

Even in the (unlikely) event it is, they won’t care about it like Robert cares about the core, and that is worth a lot more.

[wanton sun]

yes, no Patreon for me currently as I'm not activly spending lots of hours on the cores so I don't think it's fair to still collect money.

instead please support the active developers if you can and like 🙂

[lament escarp]

Robert never released a ugly ass brawler clone controller for his core. Sooo... that's a plus.

[zinc dew]

For transparency my comment isn’t a criticism of Analogue’s efforts, rather that I think Robert did such an incredible job that I think it’ll be hard to match.

Additionally the community support for the core is also amazing and has seen meaningful contributions to the core.

[lament escarp]

The analouge 3d reminds me of the dendy somehow.

[last wraith]

Say what you want but I personally think that the biggest achievement of any core is the possibility to play 2 player link mode on the GBA core. It’s mind boggling that it even works

[zinc dew]

Yeah that’s super cool wish my kids were interested in playing two player with me on that

[last wraith]

I’ve played a lot of Kirby and Mario kart in link mode with my kids

[zinc dew]

Damn Kirby might be the trick, thanks for reminding me!

[quick light]

One thing that stood out for me was your stance on the clone boards having issues with your N64 core. You could've turned round and said "buy a real de 10 nano" or "I don't support clones". Yet you fixed the issue. You took the time out of your schedule, to adjust your core that worked fine on the de 10 nano to work on the clones. (Also it was great to see the community as a whole try and find what the issue was).

That leaves (good) lasting impressions on people.

[wanton sun]

thank you. For me it's always important that people can enjoy the things i worked on, so it was no question for me to spend at least these few hours. Thankfully the solution was easy enough.

[quick light]

I'm just glad you was able to find the fix. Even if it was as easy as you said.

A lot of people will be able to enjoy that N64 core on there QMtech and mister Pi.

I for one can't wait to play some RE2 on the N64 core when I get my mister pi. I also want to check out that weird 40 Winks Piko interactive port aswell as Nightmare Creatures.

[deft matrix]

I'm loving the N64 core with bilinear filter turned off, it's better than my 64 with deblur

[surreal bay]

I’m sure one of the reasons the mister pi sold out in minutes is because of this core. This is definitely the only reason I got into misters.

[quick light]

I'm also interested in comparing the N64 turbo core with my RGB n64 + ossc.

[weak hill]

because of your n64 core, im so exciting to get (i hope soon) a taki clone, its an amazing work, thank you for that.

[junior pine]

The thing here, Robert, is that you overcome limitations and did something for us all: you published the core, you gave the community the hardware description that reconstructs the N64 workings in an open form.
What "they" have done is only for their own benefit. It's as if Shitendo would have re-released the N64 today: no PUBLIC advance would come from it.
You core, the fruit of your effort, belong to us all: it's PUBLIC, it's for all humanity to enjoy, inspect, learn and enjoy, be it on the MiSTer or in another board.
Their closed product is DEAD, your core is ALIVE FOREVER, because it's open and public.

In other words: when their closed FPGA vanishes from collective memory, when it fails, when it ages... it will be forgotten and disposed.
Your core, Robert, is again what will prevail forever because of it's OPEN and PUBLIC nature.
Or yet in other words: your core is the ONLY true N64 "hardware" that lives forever, the only living N64 implementation. Closed = Dead on Arrival.

[gilded whale]

It’s not like analogue is going to stock this thing long term anyhow. Their whole model is based on fomo, plus this is a dedicated device just for n64 with no openfpga. The install base is going to be low for this thing compared to your core which will make its way to every mister, every clone and possibily every future mister board.

PLUS they say 100% yada yada yada. However they have never been good about circling around to fix old issues in the past. Super nt and such have had a lot of the same issues for years with no fixes to my knowledge.

[glass walrus]

can openfpga be developed for by anyone or just a clever marketing term?

[simple glacier]

Yes, anyone can develop and distribute openfpga cores for the Pocket. Analogue provides some basic sample projects and docs, and you can use the free version of Quartus to build your own cores.

[green epoch]

but the pocket fpga is limited compared to the mister

[random girder]

I kinda find it bizarre that they introduced openFPGA and then limited it to the Pocket. Like why develop a framework and then limit it to one SKU.

On top of that, they introduced the framework but don’t offer any community support. They could have a browsable list of cores on their site if they wanted.

[jolly turret]

@wanton sun what you have done for this platform and the community is very close to a miracle. Your N64 & PSX cores are absolutely fantastic and they allow me to re-experience these systems in an authentic and enhanced way through the Mister platform, which I will be forever grateful for.

I'm already supporting other core developers and Sorg via Patreon, you might want to offer some kind of donation platform, even just a PayPal link, for whenever you are more involved and active for people to have the ability to send you some bucks as a sign of appreciation for your work and continued support.

[cerulean elk]

Simple; they will do an OpenFPGA console once they have every stand alone out

They want to sell an FPGA N64/Saturn/PS1 and once the sales well has run dry that’s when you see an OpenFPGA console

[lament escarp]

Mister kinda does it the other way around. First all in one box and then that taki psx thingy

[cerulean elk]

I’m sure marketing / accounting said “you are going to be able to sell a handheld for every handheld ever made. People don’t buy them all”…hence an OpenFPGA handheld with a dock. Because it can’t run the consoles they haven’t yet exhausted…namely PS1/N64/Saturn

[green epoch]

Analogue Jaguar When

[cerulean elk]

Haha I was just playing Jaguar. AvP

[green epoch]

I should take mine out of storage

to play AVP

because that and Wolfenstein were the only games released for that system

sadly 😦

[elfin depot]

If they did it would be kick ass to use the repurposed dental mold, re-released as a jaguar, full circle of life

[green epoch]

god bless technology

what cores does the dental mold run tho

[elfin depot]

Pain

[green epoch]

the best core

sweet relief

https://tenor.com/bFJZt.gif

[cerulean elk]

My dad had that at his office. I wish I knew back then. I’d have taken it when he closed his practice

[cerulean elk]

Send it to me. I need a Jaguar

For on camera shot

[quick light]

I'm missing that keypad overlay for AVP and doom.

[green epoch]

If you need it, I’d be happy to meet up somewhere and let you borrow it. (Please don’t make me drive into the city)

[cerulean elk]

Oh you close to Chicago?

[green epoch]

Naperville

[cerulean elk]

Oh wow. Close

[random girder]

Makes sense!

[cerulean elk]

I may take you up on that. I’ll lyk

But if you come into the city @green epoch I’ll bring you to my fav dive and buy you a couple Malorts

@manic basin knows how delicious it is

[gaunt star]

Hello neighbor

[random girder]

I want to go too.

[cerulean elk]

Anyone from Chicago or the burbs I can set a bar hang in my hood. Malort for all. But you gotta be able to keep up

[green epoch]

I’m no tourist. This ain’t my first rodeo :p

[cerulean elk]

I mail Andy D Malort and MiSTer parts. Plus Besk when I feel like pivoting. I also made @wild rampart drink the nectar of the gods

[random girder]

What if we're from a little outside Chicago?

[cerulean elk]

Haha this Jan I’ll pick a day and we can have a MiSTer discord server Malort and old style party

[wild rampart]

Syrup? We're talking about Syrup right

Oh, Malort

[cerulean elk]

Malort. But I bet you could add syrup to it

[wild rampart]

I would NEVER do that to syrup

[random girder]

I'm only 13668 km away.

[cerulean elk]

Country miles worth

[random girder]

If I start walking now maybe I'll be there in Jan.

[fossil umbra]

Are we throwing local core developer tribute parties? I'll happily rig up my MiSTer Pi and some controllers at a Seattle barcade if so

[topaz otter]

I played mario 64 on the nintendo ds with that stupid thing that goes on your thumb

https://preview.redd.it/ss8gqei60ba81.jpg?auto=webp&s=874321ab7c70420e3afef6d2db3feed83cfba871

nothing is worse than that

being tethered to that thing was like prometheus being chained to the rock

and using it to play mario was like pushing that same rock uphill

[lament escarp]

There is a mod for sm64ds that lets you use the circle pad of the 3ds. But yeah, pretty stupid how it was a launch title for the ds and they clearly noticed it not working well with a dpad and thinking of such a bad solution.

[rich warren]

At least making 2D games was more acceptable on the DS, except for Nintendo themselves on their major properties other than Pokemon. Would have been awesome to have the final batch of sprite based games for Zelda, Metroid, and Mario titles be on the DS.

[lament escarp]

Dread was planned for ds afiak.

[random girder]

Who needs an Analogue 3D?

[lament escarp]

Not this guy, that's for sure.

[paper orchid]

nice SNAC, where'd you get it 👀

I only ask because the case for that may've come off my printer rofl

(I actually don't remember if I printed black with white pips?)

[random girder]

It's from misterfpga.co.uk

[paper orchid]

Ahh, nvm then

I did a bunch of dual-color prints for someone in the area

[random girder]

It's a really nice adapter.

[paper orchid]

I've got one that I...think I did the assembly on? I forget

I know I printed the case rofl

I should actually use it more tbh

[trail swallow]

I tried playing like that, I couldn’t

[topaz otter]

using the dpad to move and the Y button to run honestly is the better way

its fully playable like that