Nintendo 64

[wanton sun]

i guess we now have the computing power to even implement the findings of this research, so it's a real win

[orchid nimbus]

that are included on my website

And after @chrome quest verification

[chrome quest]

Appreciate the addition, but just to be clear, those are just files I found. My own questioning was hoping we could collectively work out what these are.
Some could be bad dumps.
Maybe there are several PIF versions for the various European consoles?
Found conflicting reports that JPN and US PIF files are the exact same......

[orchid nimbus]

https://vampier.net/N64/

put an asterisk on those 2 entries

[chrome quest]

Do you have sources for the other 3 then?

[orchid nimbus]

yup

you only need 1 pif file

[chrome quest]

What's the cause of the two NTSC files out of curiousity?

[orchid nimbus]

different dumps

no idea

https://n64brew.dev/wiki/PIF-NUS

see "console start up" part

[chrome quest]

I was thinking ahead for testing consistency. If there are several different but genuine workable PIF files for each region.... I guess hopefully they won't contribute to any errors

[worn delta]

Are there no others? We recently got that Brazilian one, or is that the third NTSC? Is there no Japanese one?

[orchid nimbus]

believe me - when we're ready for testing we'll know 😄

@worn delta I haven't looked into it too deep

I just gave a bunch of sha1 to get people started

[worn delta]

Ah right, this is why I am wondering if there is a comprehensive list of every BIOS file there is

[orchid nimbus]

we can figure out the rest later

[sharp beacon]

maybe support for different RDRAM manufacturers

just speculating

[orchid nimbus]

remember those pages are created to slap newbies that join here and start asking questions - we don't have to repeat ourselves over and over again

I did that with the PSX too

[worn delta]

I am trying to remember what happens when you turn on an N64 when there is no cart in it, do you get a message?

[sharp beacon]

no just black screen

[worn delta]

Cool

[orchid nimbus]

you should 😄 "dumbass" 😄

[sharp beacon]

pif keeps CPU/RCP in reset

[worn delta]

That would cut down on BIOS files then, they didn't need one for every major language

[orchid nimbus]

correct

load first 1mb into RAM - execute / handle reset

[worn delta]

I am now back home and have N64 - EverDrive 64 2023-05-15.7z slowly coming down from archive

[blissful plaza]

9174EADC0F0EA2654C95FD941406AB46B9DC9BDD is a NTSC Aleck64 PIF ROM, from the motherboard.

[worn delta]

Oh interesting

Worth chucking that in the Aleck64 folder I guess

[blissful plaza]

46CAE59D31F9298B93F3380879454FCEF54EE6CC is a PAL PIF ROM+PIF RAM dump from what I remembered.

[worn delta]

From a European console?

[blissful plaza]

You need to remove 64 bytes at the end of the file for removing the RAM data, and you have the other one which is verified.

[blissful plaza]

European console.

[worn delta]

Something that is probably worth documenting on your site Vampier is what BIOS for the Rest of World roms, so I would assume:
Asia = NTSC
Australia = PAL
Brazil = NTSC
France = PAL
Germany = PAL
Italy = PAL
Spain = PAL

[blissful plaza]

Japan and USA consoles have the same PIF ROM.

[worn delta]

Cool, thanks for confirming

[blissful plaza]

Brazil is a kind of hybrid between PAl and NTSC.

[worn delta]

Does Aleck64 work OK with the NTSC console pif?

[blissful plaza]

I don't remember if the iQue system have a PIF ROM dumped.

[worn delta]

Maybe we go with the Brazil BIOS for Brazil then to be safe?

[blissful plaza]

Only with Aleck64 games on arcade, the PIF ROM doesn't work on a console.

[worn delta]

There is also a single Unliscence game in the everdrive pack Ronaldinho's Soccer 64 (Brazil) (Pirate).z64
So that would use Brazil BIOS also

Hmm, so maybe we need to wait and see what happens with the Aleck64 games and try both NTSC console and Aleck64?

[blissful plaza]

Aleck64 is another system.

Like with the PSX arcade systems.

[worn delta]

My understanding was the dumps run fine on console with an everdrive?

[blissful plaza]

Never tried them.

[worn delta]

There is a folder in the everdrive pack I have

I think they just work as the hardware is the same

-as console

I don't think the files have been converted

[modest helm]

Yeah those are ports to the N64 from the Aleck 64 arcade system

Those Aleck 64 games shouldn't run natively on N64 hardware afaik

[blissful plaza]

Zoinkity should know more.

[worn delta]

Are you 100%? I am sure I read the dumped games would run

[blissful plaza]

I'm reading that at the moment.

Removed the link as there are games files with the explanation.

[modest helm]

I'm going off very old knowledge. Just read that they were ports to the N64 like 3 years ago when I ought my Everdrive. Could be wrong though

I read this on the Everdrive forum forever ago

[worn delta]

Be good to know if these are conversions or raw, and if they are conversions is anything removed/changed to make them work

[blissful plaza]

"Aleck titles use a unique CIC. The algorithm is the same as Diddy. The seed byte is 0xAC.
Depending on the boot address is how much data gets read in. If the address is 80100400 (actually 80000400) it reads in 0x3FE000 from 0x1000. Any other address reads the typical 0x100000.
LaC's bootloader can force the seed value, allowing you to boot the game off a flashcart."

The last sentence is important.

[worn delta]

Right, so Robert would need to add some sort of bespoke support for them to have the raw dumps load?

[blissful plaza]

The problem is that the Aleck64 is more powerful than the N64, like a Xbox vs. Chihiro system (more RAM).

36 Mio Rambus DRAM, to be precise.

We are talking about things where RSP and RDP haven't been processed and tested right now.
So, don't wait about anything at the moment.

[worn delta]

Hmm, if the board is more powerful then how do the roms run on an everdrive on a console?

[blissful plaza]

I'm checking some documentations.

The ROMs files have been prepatched for the N64 system (like with NAOMI ROMs working with Dreamcast).

[worn delta]

Got you

I wonder if there are sacrifices made somewhere i.e. they run slower or have less sounds etc.

[blissful plaza]

For the Brazil PIF ROM.
"It is true and it is called "PIF-NUS (M)". I believe the differences have to do with the interlaced video mode timings. PAL-M is 60Hz but it uses a different color carrier frequency to allow phase alternation on the video signal under the M system transmission spec."
(Leo Oliveira)

So, MPAL PIF ROM.

[worn delta]

Interesting...

I wonder which will be the best PIF to use then

for the Brazil games

[blissful plaza]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T4FpK0_A0vzAz9XIoBzMYgb7mK6lu6Ytd8u6KA7BikI/edit#gid=0
Courtesy of alexandrexlr (which dumped the PIF ROM too on last May).

[mellow raft]

NS1 and NS2 N64 models most likely

They changed some of the hardware with the NS2 revision

[worn delta]

Is the Brazilian PIF available to download somewhere (without directly posting it here and breaking the rules)?

[blissful plaza]

The PIF ROM wasn't changed on the NTSC systems.

The other ROM file is a RAW file which contains also the PIF ROM and the PIF RAM.

If I remove 64bytes, I have the correct NTSC PIF ROM - B7A0070CBE4B9BCAA08EC0B76B8C4955B2AE535A

On older dumpers, the two parts of the PIF weren't dumped separated.

[worn delta]

If you were going to put a PIF file in the Brazil folder, which one do you think would be the one to go with or do you think we won't know until the core is way along and we can check each one?

[mellow raft]

oh yeah. You need the PIF rom alone for MiSTer

Lol so someone just forgot to hexedit the RAM out

You could probably remove that imo or put a note @orchid nimbus

[blissful plaza]

So, end of the mystery on the SHA256 values.

For the Brazilian PIF ROM, it might be available somewhere.

[worn delta]

I'll go ask in the Gaming Alexandria discord and see if those peeps have a copy

[orchid nimbus]

@blissful plaza removed it from the webpage ( @mellow raft )

[blissful plaza]

Gotta go, I've done even 2H more than estimated.

[worn delta]

How does the PSX core handle BIOS again? Is it like other cores where we have NTSC in the NTSC folder and PAL in the PAL, or did Robery implement something clever? I can't remember now how it was set up, been so long

[blissful plaza]

d5edc21d
3a1d7f917ab310f583c1ce95b615e1497868c8e1650f11bb2b62b13ae45d2e8e

For the MPAL (Brazil) PIF ROM.
Just for reference.

[mellow raft]

Nope. boot.rom, boot1.rom and boot2.rom for the 3 regions. (The name is specific to the region)

It autoselects the correct bios based on the image you boot.

boot.rom = SCPH7001.BIN
boot1.rom = SCPH7000.BIN
boot2.rom = SCPH7002.BIN

[worn delta]

Ah Got you, I rememer now he did something clever

[mellow raft]

Based on update_all

[worn delta]

Would something similar be doable here or would that not work?

[mellow raft]

boot.rom = US
boot1.rom = JP
boot2.rom = PAL

I had to do some cross referencing.

[mellow raft]

Considering the games all boot on any pif I don't think so.

To my knowledge anyway.

[worn delta]

Oh, I didn't know that

[mellow raft]

Ps1 games need their respective bios but the N64 can technically boot other region cartridges

Confusing N64 with SNES I think. Idk if cutting is even necessary with n64. But they do work.

[chrome quest]

Well spotted for the file size difference. I think there is still some duplication on the PIF numbers I'd listed earlier, I think there are only 2 verified hash values.
NTSC: B7A0070CBE4B9BCAA08EC0B76B8C4955B2AE535A
PAL: 15C23C3B671A8828302603F30C81D464B24A7FB1
Reading the https://github.com/hcs64/pif_rom_dumper notes; looking at these files I'd understand it to be TRIM UP TO BUT NOT INCLUDING "0x7c0 bytes"
Those other numbers I listed for clarification:

[mellow raft]

Yeah I don't think having anything but the pif off your own N64 will be necessary.

[chrome quest]

9174EADC0F0EA2654C95FD941406AB46B9DC9BDD is just B7A0070CBE4B9BCAA08EC0B76B8C4955B2AE535A without the truncation.
Same for the PAL 46CAE59D31F9298B93F3380879454FCEF54EE6CC is just 15C23C3B671A8828302603F30C81D464B24A7FB1 without truncation. Can remove those

[mellow raft]

You have to trim it because that and many dumpers dump the pif ram with the ROM, unseparated.

The ram is 64k

So it seems that the extra pal crc's are the same case as the NTSC @orchid nimbus

Yeah we found that out already earlier for NTSC 😛

[chrome quest]

Got it. So just two valid hash files from what I can see.

[mellow raft]

So... B7A0070CBE4B9BCAA08EC0B76B8C4955B2AE535A and 15C23C3B671A8828302603F30C81D464B24A7FB1 are correct?

[chrome quest]

Oddly I think the removed NTSC file was not the byte similar version though.... 3A23E4CCCCA2CAD62A83EEA8519C7184FE1F7BE2 is indeed a different similarly sized file. However, nowhere else I can see had listed that hash until I did. I found it alone, so I'd just leave that one unless a proper source materialises

[chrome quest]

Correct

[mellow raft]

64k would be the ram

the ROM is about 2.25MB I believe

[chrome quest]

My bad. For clarity, the PIF files matching the hash values other have shared go up to 0x7bf viewed in Hex

Avoiding what windows says the file size is!

[mellow raft]

you do know that Windows shows it in size of 1024 bytes, same as linux does with df -h right?

Linux shows filesizes with ls as 1000 bytes instead. lol

that's what ls -k is for

https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/11563/how-did-the-iec-decide-to-create-kibibytes

kibibytes is technically the correct increment (1024), but due to technology and terms spreading, the standards were split, and at this point changing it for everything would just be confusing

so ... Windows actually had it right :p

[chrome quest]

If I check properties; NTSC PIF: SHA1 B7A0070CBE4B9BCAA08EC0B76B8C4955B2AE535A: Size (1,984 bytes)

[mellow raft]

"math is weird yo"

not trying to sound like an ass sorry xD

[chrome quest]

No worries. Up to 0x7bf Hex at least avoids any confusion. Nice all the other hash values around were just variants of each other (ignoring the one odd edge case I found).

[mellow raft]

would be nice if we could dump them separately but... not easily doable with the method in this dump tool

It is nice to be able to dump with simply a flashcart

[orchid nimbus]

webpage updated

also a note in the source code of the page

[worn delta]

Can we pin your web page?

[blissful plaza]

3A23E4CCCCA2CAD62A83EEA8519C7184FE1F7BE2 is a raw dump of the NTSC PIF ROM+ PIF RAM.
Try to remove the last 64bytes (and not kilobytes as I've seen earlier) and you normally should have the same hash values as the NTSC verified one (B7A0070CBE4B9BCAA08EC0B76B8C4955B2AE535A).

For the MPAL PIF ROM, I don't know if the file is public or not right now.

[worn delta]

I haven't been able to find it, seems odd someone would dump that and not allow it to be released

[blissful plaza]

That is more regular than you think.

[worn delta]

But's it not a rare game, it's just a standard Brazilian N64. It's not like it has any special value that will go down if the PIF file is released

if someone was being really weird about it, presumably No Intro could just ask again for someone else in Brazil with an N64 to dump their console

Or just release it anyway and pretend someone else in Brazil sent them the same file

[chrome quest]

Thanks. They do have the same data. Viewing in Hex, the 3A23... file also had 212bytes of additional data at the start of the file too.
Whichever way it's formated though, the PIF data is still in there, the exact same NTSC version. Which is consistent.
NTSC PIF (US and JPN the same)
PAL PIF
MPAL PIF (not public?)

[chrome quest]

I think that's exactly what happened. At least 1 additional person seems to have verified. Briefly looking around the internet, the NTSC and PAL data was also updated around the same time in like May of this year.
Timely!

[worn delta]

Shall we all ask around anyone or any groups we think may have a copy, or do you think it will be made more easy to find soon?

[zinc dew]

Finally my collection of 172 N64 games will be useful!

[worn delta]

-insert witty put down from Rysha here-

[woeful grove]

That data is so much more colorful than just zeroing out a disc to securely erase it

there ya go

have a good day

or did you want me to put down a different statement?

[worn delta]

I was hoping for more along the lines of "To build a cardboard fort out of boxes for you to live inside while you play Robert's N64 core"

[woeful grove]

we're just going to find him starved to death in front of quest64

[zinc dew]

THE FORBIDDEN GAME

[elfin relic]

taunting us with your ability to say the word

[zinc dew]

I’m probably going to spend 5 minutes playing it and go, “yah still bad”

I mean good

Still good

[chrome quest]

Really looking forward to Dinosaur Planet. Will be a fun non-retail prototype to check functionality. Fun historical context of mid modification into Star Fox

[blissful plaza]

Dinomod Enhanced is fun.

[vapid hawk]

how good are those patches?

[marble cargo]

Holy Magic Century frustrates me in the sense that I can see a good game with what it's trying to do. It's not a technical trainwreck and it has some unique ideas going for it, but the execution is lacking.

The sequel being canned in particular feels like a missed opportunity to improve on the foundation from the first game.

[worldly quartz]

So I would like to ask, the demos that run don't have vaseline enabled?

[solid crest]

Not yet

[worldly quartz]

hope that's implemented last lol

[ocean lily]

as far as I'm aware, the only region lockout between US and JP were the tabs on the cart

[chrome quest]

Yeah, we narrowed it down. Figured that part out along the way

I could never wreck a console though! Same with other consoles, happy to leave it to MiSTer

[languid dune]

Yeah, one of my local video rental stores used to have japanese N64 games to rent, and they just sawed off the tabs on the cartridges. I remember renting Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon way before it released outside of Japan. I actually got pretty far into it even though I couldn't read anything in it.

[elfin relic]

I took the tabs out of my n64

same with cutting the tabs in my snes

play all the things

[worn delta]

If you have an NTSC N64, North American or Japanese, then you can now find a 3D printing file online and print off a new cart slop you can swap in (that isn't visible) that allowed both Japanese and North American carts to slot in

[zinc dew]

I just use a GameShark

[languid dune]

I just use the MiSTer core.

[elfin relic]

I just use putting my n64 on a shelf and being too lazy to hook it up

[ocean lily]

I just play Qυεsτ64

[mellow raft]

I really don't see why we need this this badly. As noted by others here. There was no "region lockout" besides the physical tabs on the cartridge for the N64. Having a separate pif serves no purpose.

For preservations sake, I get it. But there's not going to be a use for the mister or any flashcart.

[worn delta]

That's not entirely accurate, you can't play NTSC games on a PAL console and vice versa, even if you remove the tabs issue and plug it in

[mellow raft]

That's not because of the pif.

That's because of the refresh rate lol

[worn delta]

And Brazil seems to be some sort of weird 60hz PAL thing

[mellow raft]

50hz

[worn delta]

As mentioned Brazil may be some 60hz rather than 50hz PAL

But maybe it will all be moot and a single PIF will work just as well for every game from every region

[mellow raft]

Doing some research the pif may matter for pal vs NTSC. But there's not a lot of solid proof that that's actually the cause.

[blissful plaza]

NTSC PIF ROM allows NTSC-J and NTSC-U games (no PAL games as the clock oscillator is different). PAL PIF ROM allows PAL games only.

[mellow raft]

So I stand corrected on that.

So it's moreso because of the clock difference.

[blissful plaza]

That's why we need an UltraPIF which bypass also the CIC checks.
And which provides a dual clock oscillator.

[worn delta]

So we will need PAL PIF for PAL games, got you. And with these few Brazil games we will need to test when the core is at that stage

[mellow raft]

So would Brazilian games need the Brazilian pif is the question.

[worn delta]

Has anyone tried to make a universal PIF?

[mellow raft]

That's what ultrapif is.

[worn delta]

I think we will need to test Brazil when the time comes

[blissful plaza]

Yes, the UltraPIF project, ninja'ed.

[worn delta]

Is it finished and available?

[mellow raft]

So why is the pif never really needed for N64 emulators or flashcarts then?

[worn delta]

You have it in your N64

[ocean lily]

because it doesn't do much; an emulator just jumps to where it needs to start executing code from the cart

[mellow raft]

I should've left flashcarts out of that question. Me Dumbo

[blissful plaza]

I have one of my N64 modded with an UltraPIF, it's available for sure.

[worn delta]

But I don't think you can play NTSC ROMs on your N64 can you?

[mellow raft]

Yeah so the pif isn't so much a lockout but more of what's needed to boot the N64 itself?

[ocean lily]

well, it's both

[blissful plaza]

PIF sequence is mostly stubbed on older emus.

[mellow raft]

So then perhaps we would need all the pif dumps for mister.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[ocean lily]

the cart has a chip that talks to the pif and continuously authenticates the cart

[blissful plaza]

And on some older emus like Project64 1.6, the PIF challenge for Banjo-Tooie is literally some files with all the responses possible from the chip.

[worn delta]

We will definitely need an NTSC and PAL one and maybe Brazilian (or maybe a universal PIF will cover everything)

[mellow raft]

Wait... The chip that the cic talks to us the pif?

[ocean lily]

yes

[mellow raft]

I thought it was also called cic ¯_(ツ)_/¯

My mistake then. If I had known that's what the pif was I would have held back on all my statements. I know what the cic does.

Derp

Ultracic and all

I've watched mvg's explanation on how the security works.

Woops I remember him saying pif now.

[ocean lily]

I think some games like banjo can even manually challenge the pif and cic to detect copies

[mellow raft]

Yeah some games actually do cic checks during gameplay.

[blissful plaza]

Banjo-Tooie and Jet Force Gemini.

[mellow raft]

Yeah I was gonna say jet force Gemini will randomly make you walk speed only.

And you cant use your gun.

[worn delta]

I didn't know a thing about PIFs until recently and still trying to keep my head above water in this chat today, but nice to learn about this stuff but think we will need to do some testing to see what we need. Great to all get on the same page now though so we are ready 🙂

[mellow raft]

It was an attempt to trip cracking groups who would often release something as soon as they got it to boot, not checking if the game was playable or... Beatable in the case of spyro

[blissful plaza]

At least on RARE games - Mickey Speedway USA, Jet Force Gemini, Dinosaur Planet and Banjo-Tooie are protected.

Some need really tight accurate timings (like on PI -Peripherical Interface- DMA timings) or the game will crash in-game.

Dinosaur Planet needed even an internal dongle from RARE, as they used to protect their dev flash cards with that system.

[worn delta]

Quick side question, I am not on PC so can't easily check, but noticed the 64DD files in the Everdrive pack I have are all converted to .n64 and .z64, we have uncovered packs of the 64DD disks and the aleck64 arcade ROMs, don't we?

But we have clean dumps right?

[blissful plaza]

Clean dumps, no.
Bestest dumps possible for the moment, yes.

Some others are better for that part of the system.

In fact, sometimes there is a technical problem when doing dumps and game preservation, what format should be used and how far we should go for preserving the physical support.

It's a similar problem like the Famicom Disk System and so analog/optomagnetic technologies, we can't have clean dumps per se without having access to the original master files/disc.

[worn delta]

Ah, so it is more murky

What format(s) are unconverted DD files? .dsk ?

[blissful plaza]

I don't have the knowledge for responding on that question precisely.
The best way should be like for floppies and Zip disks - doing a raw flux magnetic capture at low-level.

[vapid hawk]

A pal n64 with an everdrive can totally play ntsc games at 60hz

The speed is only slightly off - you can fix it with a dfo- similar to psx

I’m

[worn delta]

Can a PAL N64 output 60hz?

[vapid hawk]

yeah

source: my n64 is pal

[hearty oar]

yep, the experience on an unmodified PAL N64 using an everdrive is pretty good

[vapid hawk]

its in the "only a problem if you're a speedrunner" kind of difference

[blissful plaza]

Not exactly, it's off by some ticks but nitpicking on my side.

[vapid hawk]

and a dfo will make it identical to ntsc

[blissful plaza]

I'm agree.

[hearty oar]

one of the few cases where I'm not annoyed that my childhood console is PAL

[blissful plaza]

I'm surrounded by speedrunners over the years...

[worn delta]

Does it not make games optimised for 50hz like the Rare games too fast or weird i.e. Goldeneye?

[vapid hawk]

n64digital mod has an integrated DFO so if you have one you're golden

it acts within 1% the speed of a native ntsc cart on ntsc console. without dfo

nothing you'd ever notice

[blissful plaza]

If you want to see more, that's the documentation on the MultiFile System used for representing the N64DD disks.
http://n64devkit.square7.ch/64dd/mfs/readme.htm

If you have troubles with insomnia (like me now), within 4-5 minutes you will sleep very well reading that

[worn delta]

That is Sahara desert dry and over my head 🙂

[ocean lily]

https://n64brew.dev/wiki/PIF-NUS

[worn delta]

OK some digging and no intro 64DD has files in format .ndd

[mellow raft]

well, the discs do. There's also carts that go along with them

[worn delta]

Like F-Zero retail N64 cart and the disk, or some specific carts just to work with the 64DD?

[orchid nimbus]

I like the DD part

there are only 10 official releases though

[worn delta]

Yeah not many at all. I still wish I could get one though, but too crazy expensive these days

[chilly ember]

The dd would be alot cooler if any of the games were worth playing

[worn delta]

Be fun to play Doshi the Giant on MiSTer

[zinc dew]

Dude, if you haven’t played Tinkling Toddler Liberation Front! Assemble! then you don’t know what you’re talking ‘bout

[orchid nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/toddler-eating-toilet-paper-gif-17603456

Todler64 - high on fibers

[zinc dew]

for the curious that toddler game is complete garbo

[chilly ember]

It's shit

Lol

[zinc dew]

64DD probably the worst hardware Nintendo put out. Even the Virtual Boy had a few games worth playing.

[worn delta]

All I will say is at least the Sufami Turbo is cheap to get 🙂

[wanton sun]

it might shock you as the n64 came out in the 90ths, but the PIF RAM is only 64 byte, not 64k.

the PIF rom needs to be exactly 1984 bytes long. Any padding bytes might work now, but when multi PIF is implemented maybe not work anymore. At least windows 10 can show the size of the file easily:

[proper ridge]

Could these "flashcart-like savestates" be easier to implement (as opposed to "normal savestates") into other cores as well?

[wanton sun]

probably, as they don't require the core to be halted. However, they are very specific to each system, so it's not so easy to write code for it. Maybe for some systems there is open source for that?

[proper ridge]

I guess such a solution would've been better than nothing... And if a user pauses a given game before saving, the compatibility would probably increase, right?

[wanton sun]

depends on the game and system. Such a function will modify at least the timing and might not be able to restore all register contents

[proper ridge]

I see.

[wanton sun]

it would likely work better for later generations like n64 than for e.g. NES

also FPGA cores can have some hybrid solution where you use the CPU to store/restore the state but can also save some additional things you could not reach with a flash card

[proper ridge]

For SNES there are in-game hooks on FX-PAK, maybe it is something that could help with the implementation for at least that system?

[wanton sun]

i don't know enough of snes to answer that at all, sorry

[proper ridge]

That's fine. :) Keep up the great work!

[zinc dew]

** Größe**

[oblique remnant]

Size matters

[zinc dew]

Größe?

[mellow raft]

I don't remember numbers properly. It's a curse. I had the ROM size completely wrong too

[orchid nimbus]

Wie ich sehe, haben Sie den Google Übersetzer aufgeruft

Wie ich sehe, hast Du die Google Übersetzer aufgeruft

ja ja ja

[inner bronze]

Rare gasten, die Duitsers.

[orchid nimbus]

eindhoven de gekstuh!!

[inner bronze]

Woenselllllll

[odd vector]

Da is ja gar nix Deutsch! 🔥

[orchid nimbus]

@inner bronze mafkaas 😄

@odd vector und was nun?

[odd vector]

Dunno

[orchid nimbus]

hehehe

hey my german isn't perfect - haven't used it in 20 years

[inner bronze]

If we're swamp germans it counts as german

[orchid nimbus]

sometimes here and there

you're a spare Belgian

I'm originally from a 'city' called Veghel

I'm no longer living in the Netherlands though

[inner bronze]

Lived in Eindhoven for six years

Wouldnt want to be caught dead in Belgium

[orchid nimbus]

it's not that bad there

and it's a buffer zone with France

[inner bronze]

But the roads, the governments, and the funny vocabulary 😮

Also the French

[orchid nimbus]

I have to agree with you there

who ever thought it was a good idea to have intersection on the freeway should be shot

[inner bronze]

Probably a Frenchman

[orchid nimbus]

I never really been to France

[inner bronze]

Avoid Paris

[orchid nimbus]

avoid Los Angeles

[inner bronze]

Theyre the source of the stereotypes

[orchid nimbus]

that's my motto

some tourist here called me a 'verdwaald boertje' 😄 (litle lost farmer) when her boyfriend tried to ask directions in his best English

(steenkolen engels)

I switched to English and told the guy that his girlfriend/wife would know the directions better than me

I was going to answer them in Dutch

[inner bronze]

Where was this?

[orchid nimbus]

I live close to disneyland and there is no shortage of lost tourists

I still have an accent but people now think I'm from Ireland 😄

[inner bronze]

Someone called you a verdwaald boertje in the US? Lol?

[orchid nimbus]

yup Dutch tourist

[inner bronze]

Lawl

[orchid nimbus]

she sounded like she was from Den Haag

[inner bronze]

Snobsville, The Hague

[orchid nimbus]

yup - it was a stereotype meeting for sure

impromptu

[inner bronze]

Though you'd expect snobs to speak better English

[orchid nimbus]

i donnut knoooww

I've been here for 20 years - it was the funniest thing to be honest

also as much as I liked Eindhoven - I loved Maastricht more

[inner bronze]

Never been there

[orchid nimbus]

too bad - it really is a nice place to visit

[inner bronze]

I dont speak Limburgs but I love me some Limburgse Vlaai

[orchid nimbus]

if I had to choice between Amsterdam or Maastricht to visit I would pick Maastricht 99/100

Amsterdam seriously is what happens when you don't care about life anymore

[inner bronze]

I still have some Brabantish dialect but it mixed with my Zeelands and Im soon living in Rotterdam.

[orchid nimbus]

Den Haag is when you want to torture yourself

[inner bronze]

Yeah I worked there for a year...

[orchid nimbus]

Rotterdam isn't too bad - I personally don't like the place to visit - it feels sterile thanks to what the German's did to it during the war

but the times I've been there it wasn't too bad

and believe me - if I had a choice to visit LA or Amsterdam - I would sadly pick Amsterdam

😄

but this is based on how it was 20 years ago - not sure how much changed - never been back since I moved here

I might be a "persona non grata" 😛

[sharp beacon]

"Persona non grata" that's italian

🙂

[inner bronze]

Italy! Hows the weather?

Melting yet

[orchid nimbus]

It’s also Latin

[inner bronze]

Yeah latin makes more sense

You cant write hand movements

[orchid nimbus]

Let’s give @sharp beacon a pizza with pineapple 😉

[inner bronze]

I can do you worse

Pizza Zuurkool and Pizza Friet

[sharp beacon]

Nothern Italy today was stormy, center shouthern is still on fire

[orchid nimbus]

LOL - dude

Sauerkraut pizza is the worst

That’s probably why I never have seen it

[inner bronze]

Ive seen Frikandel Vlaai

[orchid nimbus]

Brb barf time

@sharp beacon I just checked - it’s around 34c now?

Feels like 39 with the humidity

[sharp beacon]

😱 hahaha

[sharp beacon]

yes it is terrible, even during the night the temperature does not drop

I live in the Milan area and this morning there were very heavy thunderstorms with hailstones the size of tennis balls

[orchid nimbus]

ouch

my airconditioning broke just before the heatwave hit here

we have the same weather as Rome has

probably a little less humid though

[sharp beacon]

yes probably

[hearty python]

For a German it is very crazy to read NL Newspapers 😂

[inner bronze]

Same the other way around

Very harsh sounds.

[hearty python]

Looks all wrong written 😁

[inner bronze]

ICH MÖCHTE GERNE ETWAS ERDÄPFELN BITTE

[hearty python]

Surprise is that not only the Germans travel there to buy things like coffe, the Netherlands people travel to us also to buy here Alkohol, bred and other things. 😂

[inner bronze]

Yeah its all cheaper

And stop digging trenches on our beaches

war is over

[hearty python]

My shool english isn’t so good 😊

[orchid nimbus]

Erpel 😄

[hearty python]

Fitze

[orchid nimbus]

Piepers

I'm using a dialect there to describe kartoffel

[inner bronze]

Same

[orchid nimbus]

potatoes 😄

aka Friet

(not pattat... )

[inner bronze]

I play a race of potatoes in FFXIV Im familiar with most potato puns

[sharp beacon]

Patata (singular)

[orchid nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/potato-aim-potato-potato-gun-gif-14043240

[sharp beacon]

Patate (plural)

[orchid nimbus]

@sharp beacon friet/patat is a long ongoing rivalry in the Netherlands what to call fries

[inner bronze]

The correct answer is Friet

I was raised below the rivers

[sharp beacon]

hahaha ok, i undestand 🤣

[inner bronze]

Vieze mof LOL

Also Obligatory

ITS THE NETHERLANDS, NOT HOLLAND

I say, currently living in Holland

[hearty python]

As child I got Holland Lutscher 🍭

I loved them

[inner bronze]

I dunno what that is

Lollypops arent a specialty

[hearty python]

Look old Soccer matches in tv, there was a Holland in old days 😂

[inner bronze]

Herring with onions on white bread is

[orchid nimbus]

Achterlijke Lutscher << this sounds like something a Dutch person would say to someone they don't like 😄

[brisk drum]

Lol @ european insults

Here in America we have more choice words lol

[inner bronze]

We curse with disease

[orchid nimbus]

@brisk drum I am an American 😄

[inner bronze]

Weve got the vocab

[orchid nimbus]

been since on since 9/11/2008 😄

(that's september 11 2008)

[inner bronze]

Eww

[orchid nimbus]

not november 9th

[inner bronze]

Go ISO8601 or go bust

2008-09-11

[orchid nimbus]

2008/09/11

yeah yeah

YYYY-MM-DD

[inner bronze]

Stupid Dutch and DD/MM/YYYY

[inner bronze]

To be fair DDMMYYYY would probably be great for a radix search approach

Not so much for linear search

[hearty python]

You live with that.

[inner bronze]

Big Endian vs Little Endian

Fight.

[orchid nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-yeah-indian-kid-weird-gif-5444474

https://tenor.com/view/no-yes-ok-yes-no-maybe-gif-14428545

why would those 2 fight?

[hearty python]

What is great in NL, is that a bicycle driver is more save than here.

[inner bronze]

Not Indian

Good roads

[orchid nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/frye-dyslexic-gif-4978104

fietspad

[inner bronze]

Bicycle and pedestrian first road design

Great bike accessibility

[hearty python]

Yes. That’s true.

[inner bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/toad-king-studios-frog-frogger-froggy-toad-gif-19484444

Pad

[orchid nimbus]

https://goo.gl/maps/aUMx81RYigghAfPs6 this breaks the American's brain

"why are the roads so narrow!" and what's with the "long sidewalk"

[inner bronze]

Im like, wheres the sidewalk

[orchid nimbus]

I've rode on my bike there more times than I can count

[sharp beacon]

I would also ask what those drawn stripes mean

[inner bronze]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LwyV9o5ILF0/maxresdefault.jpg

[inner bronze]

Speed bump

[orchid nimbus]

piano

[sharp beacon]

never seen before

[inner bronze]

Go autobahn speeds and you'll fly

[sharp beacon]

we use these

[hearty python]

Looks cool

[inner bronze]

https://www.dirkdebaan.nl/uploads/1/0/0/5/10059444/2129322_orig.jpg

[hearty python]

Here they do more often now things to reduce the Breite of the streets, often at entry points to smaller cities.

The reduceness is better seen

[bronze tree]

also from Brabant (Tilburg) and living in Rotterdam 🙂

[inner bronze]

Born near Oss

Houdoe!

[orchid nimbus]

Near Oss

Lith/Nistelrode/Heesch?

[orchid nimbus]

that looks like Belgium

[worn delta]

So as a PSA, the htgdb N64 Everdrive pack "N64 - EverDrive 64 2023-05-15.7z" unzips to be 26.9GB in size. It's taking around 2 hours to copy it over to my micro SD card plugged into my USB port of my laptop.

[twin barn]

Is that in the right format?

[worn delta]

I really hope so

007 - The World Is Not Enough (USA).z64

From Reddit: There are three major formats for N64 roms. They are called:

Little Endian (.n64)

Byte Swapped (.v64)

Big Endian (.z64)

[native mesa]

SD card transfers over USB are a pain.

I prefer Samba

[worn delta]

I assumed it would be better than over my network, but I was wrong, not making this mistake again

Big Endian .z64 is the format we want, isn't it?

[native mesa]

https://open.spotify.com/album/4dDF8bdOXfixMu86qtel4l?si=zsBB_YWSQpyMTwUfuWZRzA

[worn delta]

Good stuff, I was doubting myself there

[orchid nimbus]

it took a few minutes over my network to my NAS 😄

[hearty python]

Think it depends on the sdcard adapter and the usb speed.

[native mesa]

Do you guys like that Big Endian track? I made it 🙂

[quick arch]

if you reverse it, it will be little endian 😅

[inner bronze]

Nailed it on the first one

[inner bronze]

Ewww. At least use SFTP...

[whole zinc]

Always day month year.. who needs to read the year first everytime!? Lol

[inner bronze]

YYYY MM DD is easily sortable

alphabetic sort = chronological sort

[whole zinc]

When you read a document you don’t need the year first.

[vapid hawk]

i use ymd just because its unambiguous

i work with people all over the world - they all understand ymd, if i try and use dmy or mdy it can be misinterpreted

[native mesa]

Interesting I want to do that now

https://soundcloud.com/hmpoweredman/little-endian

[wanton sun]

little preview of the last 2 days:

first set of RSP tests passing. Of course only basic stuff

[vapid hawk]

nice congrats!

when you're developing do you pick a test to aim at? or do you do some work and see what tests-if-any work now?

[wanton sun]

have to completly redo the rsp-dmem. This memory is insane. You can read or write 128bit in a single clock cycle. That alone is outstanding. But even worse you can write with any alignment to it, so e.g. the addresses 1021,1022,1023,0,1,2,3,4 with 16bit each in the same clock

if they would have put the same amount of engineering power to the rdram interface, the console could fly...

[vapid hawk]

is that an internal cache of the rsp?

[wanton sun]

it's a 4kbyte internal memory

[vapid hawk]

ah

fits in bram?

[wanton sun]

the rsp can only execute instruction from IMEM(4kbyte) and only load/store data from/to DMEM. Both memory can also be accesses by the CPU and DMA. DMEM can also be accesses by the RDP

[vapid hawk]

ooh spicy

any locking model or just free-for-all?

[wanton sun]

it would fit easily in BRAM, but due to this insane structure of unaligned access and 128bit/cycle, it will require 16 times the amount of ressources that it really needs to map to in a good way to bram

[vapid hawk]

ouch

can it be done out of ddr3? thats only 64bit isn't it, but maybe has enough headroom on clock?

[wanton sun]

we have plenty of bram, so it's no issue to spend 64kbyte instead of 4, i'm more concern about the multiplexer logic to manage this monster. It will cost a lot of logic ressources

no, it has to be bram because it's single cycle delay. Also ddr3 also cannot do unaligned wrapped accesses

[vapid hawk]

interesting stuff

[wanton sun]

will try it tomorrow how large it will be. Hopefully not more than 2-3% of the total logic

[vapid hawk]

is this the only memory in the n64 thats like this?

[wanton sun]

texture mem is also kind of like this, but only 64bit per cycle and only 16bit chunks, while RSP DMEM is 128bit and 8bit chunks, so potentially 4 times logic size of the Texture mem

[wanton sun]

i just took the CPU, trimmed it down to 32bit and removed everything not needed. Then checked with one of the easiest instructions (ADD) if it works

[vapid hawk]

oh right i forgot RSP is so similar to the cpu

[wanton sun]

the pure RSP without memory interface and vector unit is only 2% of the FPGA, but i fear those missing parts will make it very big

[hollow orbit]

Given you know this stuff I assume your day job is an engineer and I wonder how the hell you have time to do that and build an n64 core I can’t even find the time to watch tv and I’m just a dude who writes python

[wanton sun]

i spend too much of my spare time on it 😅

[hollow orbit]

But I have adhd and poor time management skills

You could be freelance earning sick money instead I assume

[wanton sun]

i have a nice job without stress and only 32hours/week. Would not give that up for the quest of finding people that want to pay me

[vapid hawk]

your day job isn't even fpga related is it?

[hollow orbit]

Yeah that’s pretty well priceless. Plus I have a sneaky suspicion you love doing this stuff and it’s relaxing.

[wanton sun]

not anymore, unless there is some legacy stuff i worked on years before. Probably 10% of my time max

[inner bronze]

Thisssss. I abandoned making a NES FPGA around 2010 so often

[wanton sun]

having a job without stress is the key to even do a hobby that takes that dedication. Before i switched the department i was constantly thinking about work in my spare time. There was no space left for such a hobby

[vapid hawk]

i do software engineering for a living but i also do it at home because its nice to work solo on a thing without annoying constraints of legacy or customer requirements 😄

[hearty python]

I asked me while reading your comments, if that was Nintendos decision to choose RDRAM, or if they had to follow the path of SGI ? I don’t know if SGI ever used RDRAM in their workstations.

[wanton sun]

I don't know. The RDRAM isn't that bad in the end. It's the sharing for all the components(7 different) and the overhead/latency due to that that kills it. Pure bandwidth is higher than all PSX memories together

[hearty python]

Thinks it was perhaps a cost’s driven decision in combination with the timeline. N64 was long delayed

[ocean lily]

doubt it was cost since rambus wasn't cheap at all

[hearty python]

By splitting it, they need more ram controller /connections for the chips. They could not reduce the size, but they had do splitting it

The design is like today, same type of memory for the hole thing in uma design.

[ocean lily]

ah yeah; it tried to be modern with a unified memory design but the latency and throughput just wasn't there to keep everything fed

[hearty python]

Is a miracle for me, how Nintendo has done it. For PCs the 4MB RDram was much more expensive as a Nintendo game with the 4MB expansion.

[ocean lily]

I mean, when the n64 came out, plenty of PCs only had 8-16 megs of ram in total; 32 megs in 1996 was high-end

so when you drop in the expansion pak, you had as much ram in your n64 as many PCs of the time

[vapid hawk]

if you've never read about rdram history check it out

they had an extremely aggressive marketing team and like dto sign exclusive deals

[ocean lily]

yeah, add in the collusion with intel

[vapid hawk]

they tried their best to sink intel

they were basically just patent trolling too, half their shit was stolen from what eventually became the ddr forum

[ocean lily]

AMD came along and used DDR instead, while the Athlon already ran circles around the P4

[hearty python]

But what make it so expensive? License or fabrication?

[vapid hawk]

they were trying to secure a monopoly on memory production, worldwide practically

[ocean lily]

Monopoly

[vapid hawk]

one single manufacturer

so yeah it was expensive

due to lack of competition

[ocean lily]

And admittedly, it was good

Until DDR came along and steadily trounced it in performance while also undercutting their price

[vapid hawk]

not that good, ddr closed the gap then started trouncing it fast

at like a quarter the price

which meant your amd server could have 4x the ram of your intel one

thats a massive deal in the server market

[ocean lily]

I was a field tech back then and came across a p4 box in like 2004 with 4 gigs of rdram

I don't even want to know what that box cost

[vapid hawk]

probably worth its weight in gold lol

[ocean lily]

my dual Athlon with 256 megs lasted me all the way until windows 7

[vapid hawk]

this is when AMD got a foothold in the server market, before that they were a joke

so yeah, they were very bad for intel

[ocean lily]

I wouldn't say they were a joke, just not so well known

[hearty python]

Thought at that time edo was the competition, Thought ddr came much later.

[ocean lily]

My k6-III box at 450mhz ran circles around my parents 1.4ghz p4

[vapid hawk]

i think the stuff right before ddr ram was just called sdr ram

edo was on 486s

[ocean lily]

before the Athlon 64, memory controllers were on the Northbridge, so the CPU didn't care what memory was used

[vapid hawk]

apparently ddr was around even in pentium3 times, earlier than i thought

[hearty python]

I think is was more a not thrusting

[vapid hawk]

its like that "no-one ever got fired for buying ibm" thing

but it was intel, for servers

[ocean lily]

and that's still the case today

[vapid hawk]

we're pretty much back to that again yeah

but still amd are more entrenched in the space than they were in the early 2000s

[ocean lily]

by all rights, Intel should have been bankrupt soon after Athlon 64 launched, cause it just mopped the floor with intel

[vapid hawk]

they really coasted on their brand for like, idk 6 or 7 years?

from the pentium3 recall through to core2duo launching

[ocean lily]

the p4 was such hot (literally) garbage

[vapid hawk]

remember BTX?

"we made our cpu so hot lets change the entire paradigm of computer cases to compensate"

[ocean lily]

then for the core series they said "what if we take a p3 and stick it on a p4 bus?"

and thus the current generation of Intel cpus was born

[vapid hawk]

it had been kicking around as a laptop chip project in the background the whole time

they've been using it ever since too right

2023 intel chips basically draw a lineage all the way back to pentium pro ?

[ocean lily]

kinda; the p6 architecture was great, but kinda only good for 32bit software, so the pentium2 fixed a lot of that, then the pentium3 optimized it into something pretty amazing

then the pentium m/centrino/core solo was literally a pentium 3 on a pentium 4 bus

then the core 2 made it 64 bit again

then the modern core i3/5/7 brought back SMT

[hearty python]

Today that do the gpu cards 😂

150w CPU but 450W gpu

[ocean lily]

those are the 4 slot cards that don't fit in most cases, need special PSUs, and/or are watercooled

[hearty python]

Perhaps i should make big passiv heatsink to heat the room in winter 😂

[elfin depot]

heat your pool!

[ocean lily]

pull a Linus and use it to heat your pool

[hearty python]

I saw a modded ps3 as a grill

[little socket]

we living in the holy magic century yet?

[worn delta]

Right testing gang, I've updated the sheet with what is all in the most recent htgdb Everdrive pack, so we are all on the same page.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H4KYg0gsOWGayioXKSETtlM7d7g3Tk4w0QXqtXvugG8/edit#gid=1540797342

[quick arch]

Tonic Trouble shows something great !

[worn delta]

What section is that in?

[quick arch]

USA just checking this excel sheet

[worn delta]

Tried loading Rayman 2 PAL with just the NTSC bios/PIF in top folder

So yeah, we need a PAL BIOS in the PAL folders

[quick arch]

you can use symlink for the tests 🙂

[worn delta]

I'll just find a PAL BIOS and chuck it in the folder, not sure how to do symlinks

[quick arch]

maybe MGL file is more easy

and N64PAL directory with the dedicated pif rom

[worn delta]

PAL roms are all in folder "2 Europe - A-Z"

This is weird, why are these .pif files impossible to find? They don't seem to be in any BIOS packs or N64 packs...

[old vortex]

The No-Intro pack has the Brazil, Europe, and Japan/USA PIF files in it, FYI.

[worn delta]

Oh, thank you!

Hmm, not seeing any listed in the archive no intro files

[chrome quest]

Seems to only be in byteswapped

Hmm. Perhaps I am not resourceful enough, but what I am currently looking at has different SHA1 hash values. Hopefully someone else can give a better pointer

[inner bronze]

An active fan on it wouldnt heat your room any less.

[chrome quest]

Of course, it's just the byteswap. Just need to flip that

[woeful grove]

@neat sierra testing the electric fence eh?

[neat sierra]

I was!

I’m like the velociraptors in Jurassic park

[woeful grove]

clever girl.

[neat sierra]

Well I was thinking it would be funny if you just turn it off at some point and everyone is going out of their way when they could just write it

[woeful grove]

it could happen

and then when you least expect it.. majora's mask, GONE

[neat sierra]

clacks toe claw on tile floor

[woeful grove]

just remember what happened to the raptor at the end

it got t-wrecked

[neat sierra]

They became licensed real estate agents

Oh right

[hearty oar]

is there any interest in kernel drivers for the official WiiU/Switch GC adapter, for use in this core? I was messing around with some as yet unaccepted drivers from upstream a little while back, pretty much all I did was just merge the patch in to the MiSTer linux branch as-is and it appears to work just fine

there's also a user space driver but I figure it would be cool if the adapter just worked out of the box without needing to run a script

anyway if anyone wants to try it out I can upload a zImage_dtb for you to try

[worn delta]

One of these guys?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GameCube-Controller-Adapter-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B00O9QW4JQ

[hearty oar]

that's the one

[worn delta]

I think I have one of those somewhere... Could be a cool thing for MiSTer to support if there isn't a big cost (I don't know if supporting like this takes up space, or has a high cost)

[hearty oar]

I don't think so, it's more just these are relatively untested drivers that haven't been accepted upstream yet

[chrome quest]

Would be cool. I've tried that before. Got an original firware Nintendo adapter, and a Dolphin custom firmware mayflash version. Happy to test if I can.

From memory, official did nothing, the dolphin firware mayflash was picked up, no rumble though EDIT: Rumble does work. Mayflash needs to be set to PC mode

[worn delta]

Would be a nice way to use the GC controller

[hearty oar]

yep, there are drivers for mayflash already in the kernel, this driver is for the official adapter

[inner bronze]

I have an official one if you need testing at some point. Didnt even know the mayflash had different drivers

[stone pilot]

It works on Dolphin - https://dolphin-emu.org/docs/guides/how-use-official-gc-controller-adapter-wii-u/

[chrome quest]

Needs custom firware though. The mayflash has a WiiU/PC toggle. I can test now, can't fully remember what the switch does on MiSTer

[hearty oar]

yep, Dolphin uses a userspace driver as well

anyway, if you want to give it a try, navigate to the linux folder on your SD card, rename your existing zImage_dtb to something else just so you have a backup and then paste this one in there:

[stone pilot]

Kudos for going through the pain to compile the MiSTer kernel

[hearty oar]

oh and yeah this was compiled against head,so your MiSTer main most likely will need to be up to date as well, so run update_all if you haven't already for a little while - beforehand, obviously, as I imagine the script will stomp your linux back to the release version...

[chrome quest]

Mayflash indeed fine on PC mode, vibration too. Nothing on WiiU setting.
Updating MiSTer now. So if I swap this file out... will my linux revert or something?

[hearty oar]

I'm fairly certain the update script will just grab the latest release version if you run it afterwards, but I've never tried, probably safer and easier just to have a backup on hand for when you want to revert like I suggested above

[chrome quest]

This is a linux change. Not something I can swap out while the MiSTer is turned on and I remote in I assume

[sonic kiln]

Open a PR for Sorg, a driver for a new controller will easily be accepted

We added support for the kernel in unstable nightlies so any update will automatically trigger a build for zImage_dtb as well for people to use

[chrome quest]

Still worth me testing this works? Currently delayed by taking the opportunity to copy files onto the SD card while I make the change

[hearty oar]

only if you want to, otherwise yeah I'll just go ahead and open a PR as suggested - also yeah it's totally fine to just rename your existing zImage_dtb while live, paste in the new one remotely and cold reboot

[chrome quest]

Just tested.
GameCube controller with official adapter and firware worked. D-pad, analog.... just no vibration (tested in the PSX core)

Compared to the Mayflash set to PC mode which can pass vibration.

@hearty oar ping just incase this effects the PR

[vapid hawk]

rumble on mister is a bit hit+miss as to what pads are allowed to do it

[hearty oar]

thanks for testing, yeah I wasn't sure if the rumble was working or not, I have always had trouble testing that in the PSX core

[chrome quest]

I just map something to L3/R3 and test with the padtest rom.

[hearty oar]

right, I assume the pad needs to be set to DualShock and in DS mode for that to work?

(in the PSX core settings I mean)

[chrome quest]

yeah

Getting ahead of ourselves, but incidentally, if anyone needs to check N64 rumble I did find a good homebrew for it (maybe some games have handy setting menus too?)
"Mind Present", on n64squid. Has a rumble test mode to dynamically change the rumble oscillation moving the analog stick

Raphnet N64 adapter had working rumble with Rumble Pak on PSX core too. Although the strong/weak confused it and it just rumbled non-stop. I'm guessing it's the difference in implementation of new controllers with variable motors, and the Rumble Pak using on/off osciallation

[native mesa]

This is good timing https://shop.8bitdo.com/products/8bitdo-mod-kit-for-original-n64-controller?variant=42721361920177

[old vortex]

They’re in the BigEndian and ByteSwapped sets, which are both up on Archive.

I just double checked.

[hearty oar]

@chrome quest turns out I am a silly person and compiled without FF enabled (the original patch makes it optional for whatever reason). Updated image if you want to try:

totally got it to work this time in the PSX pad test iso

[chrome quest]

Sounds good. If you tested yourself I'll not get mine out. Getting late here and just put everything away. Glad you worked it out though. Will be handy.

[hearty oar]

no worries, thanks for your help

[hearty oar]

anyway PR is up, sorry for derailing this thread with something only tangentially related...

[hearty python]

Cool, the Original Adapters are quite cheap . Hope they will not raise now 😂

[polar raft]

Nice, I've got an official adapter that isn't being used at the moment

[lament escarp]

My kb sticks just arrived. Boy was my old stick nasty inside. Explains a lot.

[worn delta]

How many controllers will MiSTer recognise through the adaptor?

I.e. just 1 or 4 if 4 GC pads are plugged in

[solemn maple]

Exciting patreon post, Robert 😊

Can't wait to hear some intro music from the core 🎶

[hearty oar]

it should work with all 4 controllers at once in theory, although I only have 2 on hand to test with

[chrome quest]

Only 2 controllers here too, but port 4 did work at least

[formal mural]

I don't have a mister yet, but has anyone tested smash 64/smash remix?

[deft tree]

Not ready yet

basically no games are really playable yet

[brisk drum]

I don’t think you are allowed to be on this server if you do not own at least one DE-10

Security!

https://tenor.com/view/security-sehcohrity-lol-lmao-lmfao-gif-4657116

[remote hatch]

3x nano and you may pass

[brisk drum]

I don’t think you should be allowed to speculate on a core unless you are a power user

I wasn’t referring to you specifically, I figured you were a power user

You better buy that water not that fountain shizz

[inner bronze]

You're not allowed to discuss games involving Brian unless your name is Brian.

[zinc dew]

I hope everyone here is enjoying their Saturday. I’m just here listening to my favorite album:

[devout leaf]

I didn’t see the 64 at first

Was about to recommend Jurassic 5 lol

[zinc dew]

My favorite track from that album is “I may be banned but I still kick it”

[oblique remnant]

babylon bloodclart

[stoic parcel]

@woeful grove circumvention of banned words

[woeful grove]

In the end, none will escape judgement

[golden ocean]

Is Castlevania 64 bad? 👀

[zinc dew]

No, an easy way to verify game quality is by looking at the “64” at the end of the title. That can be viewed as a sign of quality.

[golden ocean]

Seal of 64lity

[neat sierra]

Q
U
E
S
T
6
4

[zinc dew]

Ok honest answer is, it’s not bad. I wouldn’t call it great either but it’s a fun game with gameplay issues.

When it was released it was being compared to games that made fantastic transitions to 3D and the recently released Symphony of the Night which was a beautiful 2D and gameplay powerhouse.

It was unfairly maligned at the time and it’s worth revisiting if you’re curious. Legacy of Darkness, the pseudo sequel but secretly the finished version of the game, is the one to play,

[golden ocean]

I was always curious about both but too lazy to actually emulate... So maybe if we get a working core it will be finally time to play them

I like 3D Castlevania games but it seems they're not that popular with those who love the metroidvanias. I personally liked the 2D action ones more.

[zinc dew]

I know this is silly sounding but if you play the games and just enjoy them for what they are, I think they’re fun. Certainly not for everyone.

I agree though as I prefer the 2D action ones, especially the amazing run of games we got on GBA/DS.

[stoic parcel]

I've cleared CV64 and LOD several times.

Are they as bad as their rep suggests? No.

Am I itching to play them again? Not especially.

[zinc dew]

oh that’s right I forgot you’re the Castlevania expert

yeah @stoic parcel’s opinion I trust implicitly when it comes to Castlevania

[stoic parcel]

LOI and COD arent amazing either if Im being honest, but Ill play those over the N64 titles generally if a gun is held to my head.

[zinc dew]

Yeah I liked them

[golden ocean]

COD is secretly my favourite 👀

[stoic parcel]

It's fine, a bit too many long empty areas or hallways with nothing in them, and running for minutes on end for my tastes

[golden ocean]

Idk it just feels right. I liked the system with the familiars. The world design felt connected enough to feel like a true metroidvania

[stoic parcel]

And yes your call of doody jokes have not gone unnoticed

[golden ocean]

Yeah and I feel that's a PS2 thing. Felt similar to DMC3 to me, I wanted it to be more designed I guess

[stoic parcel]

I think I played that one on the old betamax deck sized Xbox

[golden ocean]

There was a leaked prototype for a 3D Dreamcast Castlevania or am I imagining this?

[stoic parcel]

There was IIRC

Just nothing to write home about

[golden ocean]

It's gonna be exciting to try 64 then

I just want a new 3D Castlevania 🥲 give it some newer Doom arena designs + FromSofts world design

[ocean lily]

Castlevania 64 was almost as good as Qυesτ64

[deft tree]

I put a few hours in it recently and it’s pretty lackluster

[languid dune]

Yeah, it was the one with Sonya Belmont (the main character from Castlevania Legends on the Game Boy).

They yeeted her out of the series canon pretty quickly.

[maiden lintel]

I never understood why - did you read anything about it?

I used Sonya as my avatar for a bit when mister was still young

[hollow orbit]

Probably so they could change the Belmont origin for Lament of Innocence

[maiden lintel]

Did it really have to exclude her completely?

[hollow orbit]

Maybe they thought it would be weird to keep her while making everything she did and that happened invoking her non canon

[maiden lintel]

Usually they just retcon

[languid dune]

Well she had a baby with Alucard, which made for an awkward situation where the Belmonts would be related to Dracula by blood. It was weird.

Like Trevor Belmont going to kill Dracula and being like "hey gramps, I'm here to kill you! I also teamed up with my dad Alucard (or grampa? who knows).

[maiden lintel]

Well I mean Alucard is going to commit patricide

[languid dune]

They probably just thought it would be weird for the Belmonts to have vampire blood in them, and still be able to use holy weapons like the cross and whatnot.

[maiden lintel]

Yeah ok that’s fair

[native mesa]

Gio Gio had vampire blood and he was good

[cold pollen]

Why do I keep getting hives when I hold this thing

[lament escarp]

I exchanged my n64 stick with kitsch-bent parts, but its still a bit lose. Never had a new n64 controller, is that normal?

[marble cargo]

From my experience, a fresh controller should have some resistance with the stick. Used ones are more prone to being loose, in extreme cases the stick can't center.

[lament escarp]

So whats left to replace? I replaced the bowhl, gears and stick itself. Only thing I could imagine is the the spring.

[viscid nebula]

Yes, the 64 suffix replaced the SUPER prefix as a sign of superiority

[whole zinc]

Maybe 3rd party parts have a bigger tolerance?

[hearty oar]

This is why Super Mario 64 is the best

[viscid nebula]

🤣

[native mesa]

Link to kitch bent one?

[native mesa]

I would have replaced the whole assembly

This is what I got. It's not great but it's better than what was in my controllers

[languid dune]

They wasted their chance to replace Super with Ultra for everything!

[solemn maple]

Can the bowl get bad from wear and tear or is it always just the stick?

[hearty oar]

Maybe that’s what the U in Wii U stood for all this time…

[native mesa]

Well N64 was inferior to Super Nintendo

That's why they didnt

[zinc dew]

N64 > SNES

[viscid nebula]

You big bitch

[zinc dew]

at 3D graphics

Can’t tell me I’m wrong

[whole zinc]

Bowl usually goes first.

[maiden lintel]

Starfox 64 > Starfox

[zinc dew]

Thank you!

[hearty oar]

uncontroversial take

[zinc dew]

yeah sadly that was the high point of that series

[languid dune]

This is true. Though the SNES game's soundtrack is way better.

[maiden lintel]

I can’t remember but that might be right

[languid dune]

Give me a Starfox 64 mod with the SNES game's soundtrack.

[maiden lintel]

Will someone make N64MSU1?

[languid dune]

Come on kando, why haven't you done that already?

So lazy.

[zinc dew]

oh lord, that actually makes a lot of sense

[maiden lintel]

N64 has shared memory so a lot of games sacrificed the audio quality

[zinc dew]

someone replacing the N64 Tony Hawk 1.2 and 3 compressed/reduced soundtracks with the PS1 versions

[languid dune]

I saw the mistakes in your edited posts! They have been burned into my memory for all time.

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-yes-gif-11132867

[maiden lintel]

Sorry almost every post from me has at least one edit 😦

[languid dune]

||Me too...👀 ||

[cold pollen]

Kept waiting for games to be "Cubed" but that never happened

[oblique remnant]

Simply go with the dreamcast versions 😀

[zinc dew]

Yeah you’re right there lol

[deft tree]

THPS3 is meant to be played on PS2 or bust

[languid ore]

THPS2 was peak. No reason to play 3

[brisk drum]

But 3 has bam Margera

https://tenor.com/view/neversoft-logo-game-game-logos-hmm-gif-19142019

Or was that thps 4 ?

[deft tree]

Hard false. Reverts were critical.

[solid crest]

@zinc dew does this mean you can talk about THE FORBIDDEN GAME now?

[zinc dew]

maybe?

LOL NOPE

[lament escarp]

https://store.kitsch-bent.com/collections/replacement-parts/products/n64-joystick-bowl

[lament escarp]

I mean its way better than it was, that stick was completely lose. I've been meaning to test it against the hall effect stick from 8bitdo when that gets here, so I guess thats already a point for the hall stick.

[modest helm]

Technically the Xbox version is best because it had an exclusive skeleton character and the Oil Rig stage was exclusive as well

[deft tree]

PS2 version had netplay

[modest helm]

Fair point. Xbox version had system link. Can’t go wrong with either 🙂

[deft tree]

i played a shit ton of it online

[modest helm]

I played THUG online on the PS2 a lot. Great memories

[deft tree]

3/4 were my peak but I still played a good bit of online thug

Used to play with AndyTHPS and he was always just on another level from everyone else, and then around thug or thug2 I forget which, he got hired by neversoft to do level design lol

[hearty oar]

I spent hours messing with the park editor in THPS4 on Xbox

[zinc dew]

Quest64

[woeful grove]

[hollow pebble]

Well that’s disappointing.

[zenith orchid]

Instant regret

[languid dune]

https://tenor.com/view/shang-tsung-it-has-begun-windy-gif-12038108

[wanton sun]

would be great if the RSP was really 50% complete and not just passing 50% of the tests. Unfortunatly the vector part is much more complicated than the normal processing that i could inherit from the CPU.

(just in case : E100 = bit 8 = RSP operation not implemented -> all vector instructions currently trigger it)

[quick arch]

Thank you !

[remote hatch]

❤️

[lament escarp]

Whats the name of the test rom for n64 sticks?

[sharp beacon]

controllertest

https://github.com/sanni/controllertest/blob/master/N64-Port/README.md

[hollow pebble]

That's the one!

[lament escarp]

Thanks a lot!

[sharp beacon]

you're wellcome 🙂

[elfin depot]

And record for the shortest time as a moderator goes to....

[thorn flax]

just saw a YouTube thumbnail that unlocked a memory

I remember seeing this at a store as a kid

the first time I ever saw an n64

[zinc dew]

The controller ports are blinding

[thorn flax]

the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming n64

[pure ocean]

"wrong according to n64brew, should always update, systemtest proves otherwise!" 😆

[wanton sun]

that's why i prefer executable tests over documentation. Not only can it be wrong, also it could be understood wrong. A test that works on hardware cannot lie. In worst case it tests garbage

[native mesa]

Headlight imagery is an interesting choice

[broken viper]

btw what do you guys think of the batteryless rumblepak? I heard because it draws more current than expected from the controller ports you shouldn't use multiple of them but do you think 1 would cause any damage? I don't know if one controller with a batteryless rumblepak would draw more current than 4 controllers but I'm hoping it is safe.

[weary palm]

I prefer the ones with battery, because they have stronger rumble.

[languid dune]

https://tenor.com/view/scrubs-jd-deer-in-headlights-truck-gif-16885840

[thorn flax]

https://tenor.com/view/salute-lick-fall-out-boy-pete-wentz-gif-7342495

[final walrus]

One is safe for sure. I modded my original rumble pak to be batteryless and it’s never caused any issue from what I could tell

[deft tree]

2 is the issue according a YT vid I watched

The game store kiosks had non battery modded ones

[vapid hawk]

i'm not certain anyones really tested that assertion

its all just based on the kiosks having two

its certainly plausible though!

[deft tree]

I’m pretty sure the vid I watched did some testing on it and modded a regular 64 too

[vapid hawk]

what happens if you use 3 or 4?

the psu is fused so i guess worst case it pops one

[deft tree]

https://youtu.be/_Ck13GnUYwQ

[worldly quartz]

I've done that mod

Annoyingly, one of my paks is finicky. I don't know if it's because of the pak or it was defective in the first place. Like it doesn't work all the time even if the joints are ok

I feel that more than 2 would just reuslt in super weak vibration at best

[hearty oar]

wasn't aware this was a thing, but I play so infrequently that just putting AAAs in and out each time isn't a big deal...

[worldly quartz]

Personally, have suffered batteries randomly leaking, so would rather not risk it

like less than 3 months it leaked

and I rarely play with other people

[hearty oar]

right yeah, I would never leave them in, and yeah there's a risk of forgetting to take them out...

[devout leaf]

Rumble Pak just weighs the controller down so you go slower.

[worldly quartz]

yeah, thankfully it's a 360

so you can get cheap battery thing replacements

[hearty oar]

I ended up just replacing the battery terminals on a wiimote a while back after yeah, I accidentally put it in storage with the AAs still inside

it was so gross

[worldly quartz]

yeah, I've bought some wiimotes from ebay and they were gross

I really should work on my gun4ir

Although, is there a mod to let the n64 controller port supply enough current for 4 modded rumble paks?

[ocean lily]

surely there's a reason it used batteries if it could have been powered by the port itself

[broken viper]

That is great info, I didn't know that.

[broken viper]

Thanks!

[worldly quartz]

It can only work with 2 ports max is the belief

[ocean lily]

ah ok

[worldly quartz]

Nintendo didnt plan rumble most likely and used batteries as a way around power limitations

[broken viper]

I assume the console drawing more power than it is rated for would shorten its lifespan, or at least the lifespan of certain parts. But if we are talking hours, days, weeks, months, or years was uncertain.

[ocean lily]

guess there's some power circuitry to the controllers that's limited, since it could power the 64DD without an extra power supply

[worldly quartz]

Probably nintendo trying to make n64 as low power as possible. So they limited the amount of power it uses

which is kind of strange since their competitors allowed their controllers to draw more power

[marble cargo]

Asking how the Nintendo 64 was designed just raises more questions I swear.

[hearty oar]

it was kind of forward thinking in a way, at least from a graphics perspective - the fact that it has what is essentially a programmable geometry pipeline is kind of crazy

[zinc dew]

N64 is awesome

[hearty oar]

obviously we've had vertex shaders (as well as geom and tesselation) for a long time now, but people are also starting to break free of the fixed function parts of the graphics pipeline and instead use the more flexible mesh and task shaders or even roll their own in compute

[worn delta]

I bought a battery charger and rechargable batteries on Amazon to use with rumble packs and controllers that need batteries. It is a pretty cheap solution.

[broken viper]

I have this ocd thing about batteries in my controllers where I am constantly paranoid they are going to die on me at a crucial moment.

[native mesa]

Is a game ever 'that' crucial?

[hearty python]

I am more afraid that a cheap Akku will fire 🔥 up my house 🏠 😱

[hearty oar]

Crucial is relative - I was pretty annoyed last time I was fighting a difficult boss in Monster Hunter and my controller died

[cold pollen]

Doesn't it usually pause the system and tell you your controller is dead

[broken viper]

My most played game is a mmorpg called Runescape that used to have a system where you lost everything on death which could include items you had to save up for months to buy. It has left me with a permanent distrust of all battery operated devices to the point where I can't enjoy a game because I'm constantly being nagged about it by my own inner voice. But that's also my ocd lending a helping hand.

[hollow pebble]

🥹

My last hurrah.

[zinc dew]

@hollow pebble that was hilarious, you’re too kind

[hollow pebble]

I enjoy the name of the sticker.

[zinc dew]

LOLOL

[hollow pebble]

Oh well

[topaz otter]

What game is this

[zinc dew]

Quest64

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/bane-no-banned-and-you-are-explode-gif-16047504

[zinc dew]

I FELL FOR IT!

[native mesa]

64

[woeful grove]

I will let you keep the 64

[marble cargo]

Quest

[woeful grove]

I stand behind my moderators. Just like that "always has been" meme.

[wanton sun]

So Robby really became moderator just to be able to write the name of his favorite game? That's real dedication, impressive

[languid dune]

Robby's entire gambit here has been to earn the admin's trust after all this time. Earn the mod title. And ban himself only to never return. The ultimate troll play!

[wanton sun]

some baby steps twords the vector unit...2% more tests passed 😅

[vapid hawk]

yay

[wanton sun]

but the first vector instructions work, so it's good 🙂

[vapid hawk]

2% better everyday

adds up fast

[lament escarp]

So it'll be finished in 50 days. :p

[quaint rune]

One small step for unit, one large leap for n64 core

[wanton sun]

more like 25 days as 52% is already there. That would still be in august. would be fine 🙂

[lament escarp]

What I've been meaning to ask, when the rsp is finished and work on the rdp begins, will we be getting lots if beautiful abominations because the graphics start working but not really?

[worn delta]

Great work Robert! Do you think any games might load further now, or is this an all or nothing piece of implementation?

[wanton sun]

yes, expect all kind of janky things then 🙂

[lament escarp]

Thanks robert, this makes me happy:)

[wanton sun]

unlikely. Unless the game is happy with calculating garbage 🙃

[quick arch]

I tried last commit of yesterday and more demos playing sound but no visual for the moment

do you think some games could play sound before the work of RDP starts ?

[native mesa]

Rude 8(

[golden ocean]

I don't understand any of this 😬, but thanks for what you do

[wanton sun]

could be, but not before most of the RSP is done

[quaint rune]

Rdp sounds like such a cool chip

I mean like the actual name itself sounds awesome. Reality dream processor.

[native mesa]

https://youtu.be/R1t6iNG28zI

https://youtu.be/eKlbx5niBu8

[lament escarp]

Isn't it reality display processor?

[quaint rune]

Yeah you right. My brain is just going to crap.

[lament escarp]

It's still a cool name. But I like the reality signal processor better. It's processing singals, from reality!

[vagrant ivy]

Cool Q U E S T 64 is a banned term

[lament escarp]

If too many people knew about brian 2^6 nobody would use any of the other cores anymore, thats why.

[deft tree]

grumplestiltskin admin hates fun

[vagrant ivy]

Time to revolt against the opression of @zinc dew ! Burn the Heretic

[deft tree]

admin not moderator

[vagrant ivy]

still can burn Robby

if just for fun

[zinc dew]

It’s pretty special we get to share in and celebrate @wanton sun’s progress on the core.

Obviously everyone here wishes him the best of successes but I also wanted to say how much we appreciate you coming here and giving us update on your progress. Thank you for your hard work.

It will be really exciting times once the awesome team here starts crunching through games and play testing.

We band together to make it happen.

[quick arch]

it is a Quest 🙂

[grim spindle]

Q̌üëśŧ６４ even

[vagrant ivy]

Join the Quest 8 x 8 times

[topaz otter]

https://tenor.com/view/bamboozled-gotcha-tricked-tricked-you-got-you-gif-12466791

[inner bronze]

Is Questy4 banned-banned or we-just-trolling-banned because sometimes its hard to tell

[neat sierra]

Quite a few people enjoy N64. Usually people born in the early 90s but plenty of others. Exploring the library you find many genres including rpg. Some people think it’s light in that regard but there are exceptional games. Titles that surprise and delight with creative gameplay and storytelling. 64.

[topaz otter]

I think its wordfiltered, brians adventures are too exciting for todays modern audience

[inner bronze]

Yeah I know it is, its the why :p

[lament escarp]

Thats why.

[inner bronze]

Its a shame we dont have DS or else itd be all about Lost Magic.

[lament escarp]

Wouldn't it be about infinite space though?

Wait, that ones genuinely good.

[inner bronze]

Almost like you're implying Brian 1<<6 isnt good

[zealous hull]

If I understand the process well enough, I think you need to repeatedly bring up a bad game until they mod you.

Superman 64

Superman 64

Superman 64

....

damn

[desert crow]

if you say his name three times he might show up

[lament escarp]

Who would win, brian or superman?

[inner bronze]

Superman

But then the world rejects Superman for daring to beat up such a nice kid.

[topaz otter]

https://media.retroachievements.org/Images/043078.png

we tell kids that superman died on the way back to his home planet

its easier than the truth

now that I think about it, everything that Titus ever programmed was garbage

these jokers made that xena game

superman 64

and carmageddon 64, the worst carmageddon game

how did they do it bros, how does one achieve such legendary badness