NES/FC/FDS/Dendy

[grand jewel]

From MAME source.

[glacial turtle]

Weird, I wonder why these have stumped people and been undumpable.

[hazy marsh]

Question for you internet detectives: Can anyone tell me who developed Karakuri Kengō Den Musashi Lord: Karakuri Jin Hashiru! ?

I checked so many different sources and couldn't figure it out

[primal ether]

https://www.giantbomb.com/karakuri-kengou-den-musashi-lord/3030-37276/

Is that it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tose_(company)

[hazy marsh]

From what I can tell that's specifically the game boy version but both games came out the same year so I imagine the simple answer is they made both

[primal ether]

The GB page says NES too

No idea 🤷‍♂️

[ebon elk]

Dear GreyRoug NES core developer for the Mister FPGA,

I hope this message finds you well. I would like to express my deep admiration for your hard work and dedication in enhancing the gaming experience for the Mister FPGA community. It's evident that you strive to provide the highest quality possible in every aspect of your work, which is why I feel compelled to reach out.

I'd like to highlight a specific game that, despite not being officially licensed, boasts impressive quality and deserves consideration for inclusion in the library of games running on the Mister FPGA. I'm referring to Street Fighter IV for NES. While it's not an authorized version, its quality and the passion behind bringing a unique experience to players are undeniable.

One of the notable features of this game is its sound. With some digitized voices, it adds a unique dimension to gameplay, providing an immersive experience that is truly exceptional. However, there's a small hurdle preventing this brilliant game from being fully enjoyed on the Mister FPGA: the mapper.

I understand that fixing the mapper may pose a technical challenge, but I kindly request that you consider the possibility of working on it. Your skill and expertise are invaluable, and I'm confident that with your talent, Street Fighter IV for NES could be optimized to run flawlessly on the Mister FPGA, providing gamers with an unparalleled gaming experience.

The inclusion of this game in the Mister FPGA library would not only enrich users' experience but also further highlight your work as a developer. Your contribution to the retro gaming community would be truly valued and recognized.

Please consider this request earnestly, and know that I'm available to provide any support or additional resources that may be needed to facilitate this process. I look forward to seeing Street Fighter IV for NES come to life on the Mister FPGA and deeply appreciate your time and consideration.

Best regards,

[Vector78]

[glacial turtle]

I don't think Greyrougue is on Discord, but he is on the forum. If you post this in the Mapper Request thread he will likely see it:

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=5

[glacial turtle]

This is an interesting request. Would it be simple to implement?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/issues/373

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=7485

[fierce estuary]

no, I absolutely hate it

I've implemented it before, evaluated the results, and deleted the PR

it's a garbage feature that will just clutter the core with useless timings consumption and more code to maintain

[clever scarab]

Have you thought about adding jailbars?

[fierce estuary]

i've thought about adding jailbars to you

[clever scarab]

[solemn sedge]

What did you hate about it? Serious question, not critisizing. I've never had the chance to experience it but had considered the mod on a real NES before.

[fierce estuary]

I hate how all the sound effects are off-center

it's extremely distracting

like when you pick up a heart or whip it comes out of one side or the other, there's no way to center it

additionally some songs are stereo if they use triangle and one or more square, but if they are only triangle or only squares or prefer one or the other greatly, the entire music sounds off to the side

it's really crappy

[solemn sedge]

Thanks, that is good to know.

[urban meadow]

Yeah, generally stereo sound needs to be mixed by the artist who created the audio/soundtrack for proper separation.

[verbal holly]

people out there trying to add stereo sound to their NES, meanwhile the majority of my time playing SNES as a kid was on a crappy, tiny little TV with only mono sound

[steel flume]

I first played nes on a b&w tv an uncle gave me. Only had the 2 screws in the back and a tiny speaker in front

[wide void]

Anyone have a recommendation for a gamepad that has separate turbo buttons?

[granite pivot]

Joycard. Similar to the NES pad, but with turbo for B and A similar to the TG-16 controller. It was originally for the FC with the Hudson Bee on it, but NES got a grey version.

[clever scarab]

Like original controller or a new one?

[wide void]

@clever scarab either.

[clever scarab]

I like the 8BitDo pc engine controller. It’s NES style with two dedicated turbo buttons on top.

[wide void]

@clever scarab I guess I should clarify that I was looking for one that is wired and has the NES style connector. I got a Reflex with NES controller adapter

[urban meadow]

NES Max is the only one I can thin of.

Horrible "d-pad" though.

[median whale]

Advantage as well

there were some terrible 3rd party stuff back in the day

[granite pivot]

The one on the right has a Famicom plug, but there's a gray US version from Sansui that has a NES plug.

[wide void]

@granite pivot I am looking for a wired gamepad that has separate turbo buttons , not turbo switches

[viral halo]

I don't think there is one from the likes of Nintendo, Hori or Hudson.

There are some newer 9-pin ones on AliExpress.

What do you need this for? STGs?

[wide void]

@viral halo well I have a Reflex adapter and one of the NES controller plugs for it. I like using wired controllers that are meant for a real S
NES/Famicom

[viral halo]

As do I. Unfortunately, I don't know of any quality ones that have dedicated turbo buttons.

[wide void]

For now I just use my dog bone NES controller and turn turbo on and off

[dire lodge]

I tried out the Hori PC Engine-controller once on NES for Turbo - was pretty neat

[clever scarab]

Yeah, I actually prefer using the 8BitDo TG16 controller for all 8-bit games. Feels great and the built in turbo buttons are awesome.

[tepid umbra]

I prefer the nes modkit. Don't need no turbo buttons.

[clever scarab]

Sorry, not all of us are good at video games!

[tepid umbra]

You're not good at video games because you're great at video games! 🫡

[urban meadow]

That twist on the Robby formula!

[twin siren]

making them, anyways.

[clever scarab]

Damnit I thought there was something serious lol

[twin siren]

it kinda is. i want my five cents back.

jk, i didn't pay for the game

[coral pawn]

Hi all, I’m trying to use a guncon 2 with the NES core. I can see my crosshair and have calibrated successfully but cannot seem to figure out the trigger. No matter what I do the button does nothing. ☹️

[sweet sparrow]

https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/basics/input/#nes-lightgun-mapping might help

https://github.com/NolanNicholson/GunCon2-MiSTer#guncon-2-performance-on-mister
not certain if that's out of date, or if it guncon 2 still has issues with NES

[verbal holly]

it's out of date, I was able to use my GunCon 2 with the NES core just fine despite what that guide said

I did have initial trouble also though, can't remember exactly what it was, something with the controller port settings

in the core itself

I think it was needing to have the GunCon as the p2 controller, p2 set to zapper, and there was a specific setting for mouse/joystick trigger, needs to be set to joystick

[granite pivot]

Also, the core doesn't let you set where the expansion lines are at manually, which is problematic for some controllers. I understand that snac doesn't have enough pins for some controllers, but some controllers behave differently when they are plugged into port 2 than when they are plugged into the expansion port.

[coral pawn]

Thanks guys I got it figured out. Apparently I wasn’t making my way all the way through button mapping. I thought the UI used to specify that you could press space to skip a particular mapping but inside the core it didn’t say that. Once I realized that option works I ended up skipping my way through all the less used buttons and finding the mapping for the zapper trigger.

[fierce estuary]

not really

they are all the same pins, that go to the same two registers

the problem is there is not enough pins

you have 8 pins that somehow have to represent 15

you'd need some goofy abstruse and confusing option to cycle between which input pin does what and it would just be a useless terrible feature for some edge cases

[granite pivot]

I just want to force the expansion port for JP games. Not use all pins

Controllers actually work through the passthrough on the 3D adapter, but take the place of the first controller, even when a USB contoller is connected.

USB controller should be the priority

My point is that some controllers don't go to those same registers and act differently from port 2 (JP and US Arkanoid controllers are incompatible, but US Arkanoid Vaus works with US Arknoid from the expansion port. The reverse isn't true for JP Arkanoid and Arkanoid II)

and some controllers act like controller 1 when plugged into the expansion slot

and some of these features like FC multiplayer aren't even supported outside of snac.

Also, there's a FC adapter for SNAC/SNAX, but acts as an NES adapter, even for SNAX?

IIRC, port II in arkanoid II acts as a debug port if you try to use a JP Vaus controller with it.

IIRC, I get the same behavior when I plug the controller in the NES in port 2 using a FC to NES adapter.

If the problem was the pins, shouldn't it be behaving differently than how it does on real hardware when plugged into port 2?

Then again, the US controller only partially works from SNAC and has the range incorrect.

Even if it's not doable with snac, I would still like the option to use P3 and P4 controllers from the expansion port

and have the mouse as JP Vaus controllers only working on the JP version of Arkanoid

[granite pivot]

I just want to be able to use FC controllers without swapping ports

and the current options for FC devices are already confusing and different from how they work on actual hardware

What do extra pins have to do with the FC expansion slot being detected as a third controller port?

and why does that always get brought up when that's the main thing I'm trying to ask for?

Yes, I understand the expansion slot has more pins, but some 7 pin controllers still behave differently from the expansion slot than they do from port two.

and many FC controllers work as a regular pad when plugged in to the first port

and my point is not all controllers in the FC slot use the pins the zapper uses and wouldn't work from the zapper port

and some of these only use the standard controller pins

[twin siren]

you're an expansion slot

[granite pivot]

Too late. Other FPGA implementions have an expansion slot or FC controller emulator options and this core has two options for vaus, both of which apply to US and JP Vaus, despite them being different.

[fierce estuary]

im gonna have to gut and rework the input at some point

it's a total mess and I hate it

[granite pivot]

at least Zapper and 3D work. My mind is a mess. Thanks for the WIP Vs. core.

[tepid umbra]

Having a great time with zelda redux. I like the original but you borderline need a guide to find all the hearts.

[steep forge]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2685090/Ufouria_The_Saga_2/ this comes out tomorrow!

Steam

Ufouria: The Saga 2

Upyo! How's everyone been?SUNSOFT's Ufouria is back!- An authentic evolution of the original "Ufouria"!Rampage through the fluffy feltwork arts-and-crafts recreation of the world of Ufouria, with your trusty crew from the original game in this exploration-based action side-scroller. Of course, newcomers to Ufouria are welcome too!- Adventure in ...

Release Date

Feb 28, 2024

▶ Play video

[steep forge]

^ game is good, you guys should check it out if you like the original 👍

the art style is beautiful when you're actually playing it. the trailers don't do it justice

[lost plume]

Gonna have to play the original, started it a while ago and got sidetracked but from what I recall it was an enjoyable game and a sequel some 30 years later is crazy!

[lost plume]

Anyone seen the Famicom Disk games kinda mess up on the core, specifically on saving?
So an example is if I play Zelda, die and save, and then “Backup Save RAM” it is fine. However, should I then press the “Backup Save RAM” option again the game does some very odd things such as bouncing back to the FDS BIOS, game freezing and/or glitching out etc

[light summit]

Hello, I wanted to comment a bit on this: I went to a friend and we tried using his Vaus and Vaus 2 JP controllers in Arkanoid 1 and 2, japanese version. The famicom got a single plug for joystick, and while both controllers worked in the first game, none worked in Arkanoid 2 no matter what we did.
The game were run from an everdrive, no original cartridges.
I just got a spinner for my mister and I tried the game there, and I got the exact same behaviour: spinner works perfectly fine in Arkanoid, and is never recognized in Arkanoid 2.

The fact the same issue is shared amongst two widely different hardware setups makes my head spin, but I'm easily confused

[granite pivot]

IIRC, you have to press the button on the Vaus to start the game in Arkanoid II.

[light summit]

Oh my, in the literal hour we tried to get it working, I can't believe we never thought of using the button to start.
What a stupid decision though, the only NES game to not start with start ever, on a single weird condition on top of it XD

Thank you so much Brian

[viral halo]

What sort of spinner did you get?

[light summit]

The Egret 2 thing. Although it isn't weighed, I took my luck and it turns out it works quite wonderfully in the Mister after some setup. Mister never ceases to be amazing!

[viral halo]

Ah nice. I once considered that one, but figured it would better to hold out for the Ultimate Spinner, which is still out of stock.

[light summit]

Same, i just got discouraged

[lost plume]

Hello all, anybody know how the NES core handles FDS saves? For example I’ve saved TLoZ and I can see it in my MiSTer saves folder. Am I right in thinking when FDS saves a game it simply makes a backup of the disk with that save data, in the saves folder? And if so then presumably changing the .sav file extension to .fds turns it back into a standard disk image?

[main narwhal]

no idea but that would be neat to have as an option on some early computer cores

[tropic belfry]

https://youtu.be/XsBnlkQHkpA

[clever scarab]

damn, that looks really cool

[tropic belfry]

It's a cool game, I have the C64 game that was released several years ago.

[lost plume]

I tried changing the extension on a Famicom Disk System save from the core from .sav to .fds and it isn’t a valid FDS image. Does anyone know how to write the save .sav file back onto the .fds Rom file? Eg for use on an FDSStick etc?

[lost plume]

I think I’ve worked it out, opening the sav and FDS files in a hex editor showed the file header in the sav had some extra data before the header, removing said data and changing the file extension to FDS seems to have fixed it

[flat ridge]

@fierce estuary Would it be possible to apply these as optional enhancements to the NES core? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RrQrATnXXY

[fierce estuary]

no

[fierce estuary]

I actually resent that video quite a bit

it's pretty gross to say "perfect" when it detracts from audio quality

videos like that only serve to mislead randos into asking for things that aren't beneficial

[hazy marsh]

I tend to dislike "I made old thing better" videos

[tepid umbra]

Any estimate on when the nes core will get the fw update?

[flat ridge]

I agree 'perfect' is subjective, but a modern take on some old chips would be cool. Do a lot of randos come in here asking about that video?

Curious what makes it an impossibility

[calm jay]

Hope the mapper 99 can be included 🤞

Can’t remember the status of the beta code

[main narwhal]

it may be possible. But so much work nobody wants to bother with it

[urban meadow]

You look different today Robby.

[clever scarab]

@fierce estuary what’s a silly mapper that you’ve been asked to add, but it’s a bad idea?

[fierce estuary]

idk, scroll up

[glacial turtle]

Mapper 99?

[vestal blaze]

I’m honestly surprised no FPGA device has tackled Mapper 159 support yet, given that a Dragon Ball Z game is on that mapper. (Plus, that game has an absolutely banger soundtrack.)

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6CB14C1F9E98835D&si=7zPfoVVGmRDoWYWL

[clever scarab]

Maybe because it’s not well known?

At least I never knew about it myself haha

[vestal blaze]

Yeah, I’m surprised that it’s kind of obscure. The game actually got a full English translation, too:

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/647/

[vestal blaze]

It’s part of a trilogy that follow the events of the show/manga - the sequels work on MiSTer (they use a different mapper), but not the original game.

[clever scarab]

cool, thanks for the link!

[tepid umbra]

Now I want to play that... I hope the mapper gets added!

[fierce estuary]

it's not complicated other than the fact that it uses an eeprom which is annoying to implement

fwiw it is implemented other than the eeprom

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/blob/master/rtl/mappers/misc.sv#L106

[topaz moon]

module Mapper16(

[fierce estuary]

actually it looks like grey did add the eeprom support

does it actually not work?

[tepid umbra]

I just tested all 3, 1 doesn't boot at all, 2 and 3 boot fine.

[languid falcon]

i can boot all seven of the famicom dragon ball games.

[tepid umbra]

Including #1091056042667937944 message?

[languid falcon]

here running on mister.

[tepid umbra]

I didn't try the unpatched version

[vestal blaze]

I’ve tried both patched and unpatched; haven’t had any luck with either.

[languid falcon]

have you tried the nes2.0 headerd version.

here is the translation running.

[vestal blaze]

Yep, you’re right - fixing the header solved my issues with the title.

[tepid umbra]

How does one fix the header?

[languid falcon]

here is the files https://github.com/Kitrinx/NES_Header_Repair

[tepid umbra]

Now I wish I knew how Python works...

[tepid umbra]

I managed to get it to work now. Thank you.

[alpine meadow]

I am playing Famicom Tower of Druaga right now and it is kind of amazing

[tepid umbra]

Which versions of the dragon quest games on nes are recommendable? I've been eyeing the delocalized versions.

[dire lodge]

Versions... there's a lot of choices to explore depending on your preferences

[tepid umbra]

I'd like them to be as close to the original version as possible, though I really dislike the the English localization and would like to keep the battery save functionality.

[alpine meadow]

I have been enjoying Dragon Warrior, but I don't really engage with the text a lot

romhacking.net has a ton of variations and I think there you will find hacks that get you what you want

[shadow raptor]

Who is the best person to discuss the NES MiSTer core code?

[shadow raptor]

I'm getting desyncs on the NES core and I was wondering how stable it is. Is it possible to actually detect (without guesswork) the beginning and end of a frame?

[solemn sedge]

I believe that is generally @fierce estuary

[fierce estuary]

yes very

in fact I did a SHIT ton of coding to get rid of the extra pixel in that core, so it has consistent frame timing

NES and SNES naturally will have one extra pixel every other frame, when rendering is enabled. In our core, on frames that are lacking the extra pixel, it pauses the core for one ppu cycle to generate an extra pixel without impacting the accuracy of the core

consequently every frame has exactly the same timings, the only time it should desync is when you load a game

[shadow raptor]

Okay. Would you be willing to pair for a few minutes to try to figure out what's going on? I basically wait for 1 frame (calculated either manually by me or using the vsync value from the core's video settings), send the input, wait for another frame, etc. in a hot loop. When it works, it takes about 20-25 seconds to desync. I wait about 10 frames after loading the ROM to account for some startup timing issues, which helps but didn't correct it.

[shadow raptor]

I'll be in the voice chat if you want to pair

[fierce estuary]

maybe start by explaining what your goal is?

[shadow raptor]

TAS replay.

[fierce estuary]

I have an existing tas core for nes

somewhere around

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV3hDfgt5rY&t=11s

the proper way to do tas on NES is by controller signals btw

[shadow raptor]

I mean, through SNAC sure

[fierce estuary]

5.369318 mhz ppu clock

89342 dots per frame

60.09847552103154

[twin siren]

https://tenor.com/view/yuriatomoki-yuria-riku-tomoki-riki-japan-gif-26124719

[steep forge]

https://tenor.com/view/stick-beat-up-kung-fu-on-ground-loss-gif-17444309

[gilded idol]

https://youtu.be/VFAvBfXAKYU

[alpine meadow]

This is a must watch, thank you @gilded idol

[gilded idol]

heck yeah! looking forward to the rest of the series on famicom he does. Ken's videos are great

[alpine meadow]

as a fan of I AM ERROR it was a lovely video

[flat helm]

Very well done video. I'd still like to grab an original Famicom one day.

[fierce estuary]

they kinda suck tbh. the hard wired controllers esp. the av famis are better, but honestly, the original hardware for all the nes stuff is so old and gritty it's hard to go back to after mister

[tepid umbra]

It's hard to go anywhere after mister

[glacial turtle]

The OG Famicoms also only have RF out which is a pain, AV Famicom does composite with the same cable you use for SNES.

The design of the original is iconic though, looks good on a shelf

[clever scarab]

the NES is nice, has composite out

[granite pivot]

You mean composite? I thought it didn't support RGB? I haven't tried the HD Retrovision cable with it, though.

[primal prairie]

I’ve retired my original Famicom but it does feel nice having it on the display shelf.

[glacial turtle]

Sorry, composite not component, typo there

[vestal blaze]

I feel like FPGA technology is the definitive console killer. Recreating hardware in hardware allows for near-perfect compatibility with next to no noticeable drawbacks, and with seamless clean HDMI output without complex mods, scalers, or cable solutions.

It’s certainly put my NES and SNES on the shelf.

[twin siren]

https://tenor.com/view/drinking-wine-wine-country-wine-dance-gif-15085091

[dire lodge]

Sorta still wish we got an NES-core that reproduces the composite output more accurately than the current one~

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=2713&start=30

[tepid umbra]

The fact that it does all that AND can change into so many different configurations is so mind boggling to me. My chimp brain can't handle it tbh.

[twin siren]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-mind-brain-head-thought-gif-8141249

[granite pivot]

The moving trees in Contra have nothing to do with the composite output. They are only in the Famicom version, which uses a different mapper.

[dire lodge]

I know about that but I'm talking about this effect on static trees on original composite output:

https://youtu.be/rXWHq9i0EEQ?t=4m52s

[supple ermine]

FPGA probably isn't any more a console killer than emulation boxes. And alot of FPGA is essentially emulation, just in parallel. Only a few cores actually try to copy what the original circuits do.

[fierce estuary]

nes composite is terrible

even if I implemented composite generation though, there's no means to output a combined composite signal on mister

only split chroma luma

it's fairly easy to implement though

[clever scarab]

Can we also get jailbars?

[granite pivot]

So you basically want to emulate a poor composite signal that's only on some models of the NES?

[tepid umbra]

No he wants to go to jail because that's where he belongs.

[dire lodge]

I guess it's due how some of the earlier NES-games like Gradius used the cross chroma-luma composite signal for some effects like twinkling stars (while in cleaner signals they're static)

[clever scarab]

Yes, is that so wrong?

[fierce estuary]

no games use composite for effects because the timing doesnt really allow this to be done reliably

unlike, say, 7800

anything that happens is just serendipity at best

like the messed up rugs in gremlins is clearly just some serendipitous outcome that some dev thought was nifty

[vestal blaze]

I’d still be interested in seeing it as a toggle in the settings, especially if it could be implemented in a way that faithfully replicated the NTSC color generation of the original hardware.

NES RGB palettes have always been divisive, and being able to flip back and forth between a conversion of the original composite chroma and the palette RGB could be a good reference.

[dire lodge]

Huh, can you elaborate? NES being composite and even RF-only back in Famicom's launch sorta has me feel devs definitely experimented with some tricks from composite output with some earlier games + the NES-models at the time (such as Gradius-example I mentioned above)

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=27111#p27111

[granite pivot]

I get that and noticed it with the AV Famicom, but the trees in contra (not the moving ones in the FC version) didn't look like they were moving. Some trees did look like they become whole trees when you move, which is an odd effect. I was a bit confused becuase I know some older games use effects, but the shimmering trees didn't look like they were moving to me and the JP Contra has actual moving trees. I also some some pictures of really bad composite with artifacts and was assuming the effects were due to that and not just from composite.

[fierce estuary]

simplifying it a little, composite artifact colors are caused when you place pixels in a certain way to exploit blending or certain colors. To do this you need the clocks to be reliable multiples of the ntsc clock more or less. NES doesnt follow ntsc clocks, they used hacks to make it compatible, so you can't reliably place pixels in such a way

so the most you can do is kind of rely on some subsampling "smudging" which really isnt terribly different than just a gaussian filter

it's technically horizontal only, but who cares, the tv set is already gonna have massive bloom

[gusty stump]

I really love this NES core.

Looks so brilliant on my JVC D-Series.

Amazingly sharp.

Never experienced an NES like this.

Was using composite before haha.

[fierce estuary]

nes is extra interesting in that the composite is out of spec in a variety of ways

other than the even frame lengths and the off-spec voltages, it also does not subsample but instead produces 444 composite rather than 4:1:1. This means the interpretation and effects of it are even less defined and highly device-specific

on capture cards some of these off spec aspects can manifest as jagged edges

most analog filters on tvs will rectify this though

as an example of the undefined nature

so in a word, nes composite is hacky and horrible and has virtually no deliberate "enhancements" other than simple signal degradation

[nimble cedar]

is arcade support planned? not playchoice, the vs versions

so this has arcade support? it is not in the regular core

[nimble cedar]

ok. there is this to look at for now i guess

[fierce estuary]

I have a branch somewhere with some preliminary mapper 99 stuff

[calm jay]

Plz release

uwu

[fierce estuary]

eh

ill polish it up sometime, it's a pretty low priority

[calm jay]

Understandable

[fierce estuary]

the special palette aspect of it makes it a bit annoying

properly headered nes2.0 vs roms have palette info in them but who really uses those other than me and a handful of people?

seeing a bunch of annoying "the colors are wrong in vs castlevania" bug reports is almost a good reason not to have it

[calm jay]

If I remember correctly that was the pending issue?

[fierce estuary]

I made the four palettes for it, but you have to manually select the right one

but the pending issue was some parts of the actual mapper needed implementation

it's not a complex mapper

simpler than mmc1

[calm jay]

That sounds good

[fierce estuary]

it's not "just" a mapper though, it has some special hardware behavior with coin registers and things, but not much

[calm jay]

Control probably needs update to insert coin

[fierce estuary]

I think I dealt with both the dips and coins

[calm jay]

Cool

Do you load MRA files?

[fierce estuary]

the coin count register didnt seem to need to be added

no, no MRA's, those wouldnt work for this

[calm jay]

Ok so rom loading then

Cool

[fierce estuary]

yes, that's the format vs and pc10 take for nes, except for really garbage distros like mame stuff

they lack a lot of critical info though and really shoudlnt be used

they rely heavily on external databases to work

[calm jay]

You mention this. What exactly is left?

[fierce estuary]

some of the actual memory mapping registers

it's not hard

technically the defining aspect of vs is that it can actually be "vs" too which is of course a huge can of worms, the two linked systems

[calm jay]

If you happen to find time Kitrinx, I would happily test the mapper

[fierce estuary]

but we're ignorning that for now

for those i'd have to do something like robert did with gba, have two copies of stripped down versions of the core

the actual linking isnt too hard but that would also need the redone version of my ppu to work well

[calm jay]

Oh yeah, forgot about that

[fierce estuary]

it uses those 4 external bits that people exploit for the nes rgb kits if i'm remembering right

i'd have to look again but it uses not-usually-implemented registers

the ppu is a fun little basket of nintendoish quirks

the palette stuff is just copy protection, and has two special qualities

[calm jay]

Would it support increased sprite limit

[fierce estuary]

one is that it has more colors than a standard nes, 64 rather than 52

so you can't just switch around a regular palette

the other is that they are swizzled around to be in strange orders, just for copy protection. That could technically be automated

but it would rely on accurate headers

[calm jay]

Right

[fierce estuary]

and yeah the sprite limit doesnt have to change

the behavior is mostly standard nes

the rgb palette is unique, generating it was effectively the same as pc10 with just more colors and different orders

I used my desaturated pc10-better logic to make more accurate-in-spirit versions

like the pc10, vs cabs usually had specific crts and filters over them to make the colors less garish

probably what ill do is add one base palette directly into the core as a lut, then 4 swizzle luts, and require proper headers

my script im pretty sure makes them correct

and just force that palette for any vs games

there's literally no other loadable vs palettes in existence im aware of and they aren't subjective like composite-based ones either, as the vs games were defineable absolute rgb values

people are going to hate it so much

[nimble cedar]

seems simple to me using that rbf

works fine with the correct roms

[twin siren]

the palette named "kitrinx"

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doomguy-mug-meme-mug-doom-eternal-gif-23149506

[nimble cedar]

that one has a good color balance.. good daily driver

[steep forge]

i really like magnum especially for ninja gaiden. the blues are beatiful

[nimble cedar]

core just needs a tint knob like an old 80s set

blue, purple whatever

turn the knob and quit griping

[clever scarab]

Can’t you just patch the arcade games to run on a regular nes

[nimble cedar]

some people can

but the mapper assignment may or may not be changed

it is not just mapper 99 really

bit of a sticky wicket

[clever scarab]

I see, thank you

[nimble cedar]

oh yah you betcha

[rapid knot]

When playing the japanese rom of ninja gaiden on the core, I have very rarely graphical issues where part of the level are broken. Do you know if this also happen in original hardware ?

[clever scarab]

maybe bad rom

[rapid knot]

Checked the rom, the crc is verified at No Intro. I use headered rom.

[fierce estuary]

willing to bet it's a header issue if it's not original behavior

[nimble cedar]

https://github.com/Kitrinx/NES_Header_Repair

Oh look, its your script

[tepid umbra]

I just finished the nes version of dragon quest 1 for the first time. While it's a fun game I think unlike ff1 I actually prefer the remakes tbh.

[clever scarab]

yeah and even the NES version of DQ1 is an improved version of the original lol

[nimble cedar]

i think ff3 and dq4 are the about the best rpgs on the platform. theres a flood of them on there but almost all of them dont come close

[tepid umbra]

Mother 1 is still really good. I actually prefer it to 2 and 3.

[nimble cedar]

all i can say about mother is that its very grindy, but thats extremely typical of famicom jrpgs really

[tepid umbra]

Dq4 is the one dq I still haven't played at all... sadly there aren't good options available on mister. There isn't even a retranslation that gets rid of the old English as far as I'm aware.

[tepid umbra]

Dq1 is waaaayyy grindier

[nimble cedar]

tis

should be noted rebalance patches for these fc rpgs abound too

[tepid umbra]

The only one for dq1 I could find was 10 times gold and exp, which is waaaay to much

[nimble cedar]

yeah thats a pinch much

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/6209/

hmm

[tepid umbra]

Looks interesting

[dire lodge]

I had to power through that one with Exp rate booster patch during grinding- anyway yes I agree (I prefer the GBC-version the most, feels like keeping old-school look while importing the good stuff brought from SFC-version)

[tepid umbra]

I found a double exp hack for dw1 that works well with the delocalization patch.

Sadly the double exp hack doesn't work with the delocalization patch for dw2, as it either crashes the game when you encounter the enemy or makes the enemy give you tenfold exp

Separately they work fine.

[trim edge]

What was the original code base that the NES core was based on?

[nimble cedar]

https://github.com/strigeus/fpganes

[dry lynx]

New NES update?! 🤯

[fierce estuary]

someone just posted a license file for pedantic reasons, that's all

[dry lynx]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I hadn’t looked at the diff

[trim edge]

it's me, i'm miss pedantic

[fierce estuary]

it immediately made me want to find a way to fuck with the license

if I were more motivated i'd rewrite the rest of the core and license it in something better than gpl3

[calm jay]

That would be cool 🙂

[urban meadow]

Sending my motivating vibes!

[trim edge]

what is the clock rate of the nes controller

[supple ermine]

It's polled once per frame so 60 hz.

[trim edge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93kB70id6w

such a thing wouldn't be possible if it were only polled once a frame

[alpine abyss]

https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Controller_reading

seems like the controller can be read whenever for the current state of it

[rapid knot]

I just tested the real cart on a famicom AV, and I confirm having same rare graphical issues. So not an issue with the core.

[fierce estuary]

it has no clock rate, it's polled programatically

[fierce estuary]

thank you for testing

NES controllers are polled usually three times once per frame, but sometimes different permutations of that

the reason it's 3x is because there's an issue with DMA that can sometimes cause the reads to be corrupt

i've used draw-a-dinosaur on the nes core before though and it works, and that uses extensive input hacks

[inland blade]

Out of genuine curiosity, what's wrong with the GPL3 license from your point of view?

[fierce estuary]

this is a great question, and the main reason I dislike it as a license is how hostile it is to other work and other licenses. Like for example, the mister framework is GPLv2 or 3, and technically speaking it's an infectious license, which means any kind of other license that might have any other restrictions, such as non-commerical (which is hugely relevant in retro circles) are incompatible. In FPGA code in particular it's very debatable if it even applies at all being hardware designs, but given the nature of the pick and mixing of parts in this kind of code, it's very obtrustive. Second, as a license, it's just shitty in general. It's a way of making your work toxic to use in any kind of commercial project, which isnt the point in the licence. De facto, a commercial project wont go near any kind of GPL library, because it could jeopardize everything for them. It's not supposed to exclude it's use, it's supposed to keep the source open. If you want to exclude commercial use you should use a non-commercial license, which is what I tend to favor.

I like to share knowledge but I dont like people profiting from my work without a kickback

[supple ermine]

Guess I should mistrust Google. First hit claimed once per frame. Probably was only about a typical case.

[fierce estuary]

once per frame is the generic use case

but it's not always

it can be once per 3 frames, five times a frame, whatever

it's a matter of just reading and writing to a register programatically

[trim edge]

I realize, but I’m trying to determine the theoretical maximum thoroughput to determine what level shifter to use

Clock is like 250khz at 10 bits per frame, so that’s 2.5mbps

[fierce estuary]

I dunno divide the number of CPU clock cycles er frame by 9 or 10

[inland blade]

@fierce estuary Thanks for taking the time to do that very complete explanation, really 🙂

[gilded idol]

https://youtu.be/Ko6rGjNx2Ow?si=8B6mejSUDbS5tOCt

[alpine meadow]

So I am watching the thing that @gilded idol posted. Which version of the RP2A03 does the MiSTer core most closely resemble @fierce estuary ?

[fierce estuary]

do youmean 2C02? It's closer to the NES one with the delay but the differences in the 2A03 were very minor

I cant remember if it ever made it into the release core but there used to be a toggle for the famicom delay behavior and the nes delay behavior, but in practice it makes little difference to just always have the nes behavior. A few very old games, like donkey kong, can fail if used on the famicom style one, but nothing fails on the nes one and there's no practical processing differences

[runic sky]

Hello! Does the NES core intentionally allow the JAM/STP/KIL unofficial opcodes to let the CPU continue running after their execution?

I don't have a MiSTer myself, but I speedrun Castlevania and we have a few runners on MiSTer. Recently an ACE exploit was found that allows skipping to the credits early, but this setup involves the risk of running into one of those opcodes.
I've found out that emulators seem to be a bit 50/50 on the emulation of these opcodes. To my understanding (I'm not an NES researcher) on original hardware these opcodes are supposed to stop the CPU 100% of time time. But it seems like some emulators (like NESHawk and Nestopia) emulate that behavior, while others (like Mesen and puNES) just ignore the opcode. One runner used a test ROM on the MiSTer, and is seems like it's falling in the latter category as well.

[graceful field]

I tested with sbdwolf on v240408 of the core

[urban meadow]

Maybe Kitrinx could help on that? I have no clue myself!

[fierce estuary]

I actually have no idea. the 6502 implementation is complete and used in many mister cores so I assume it is functionally accurate

[runic sky]

Might help if I shared the test roms. I believe these were made by threecreepio and should be fine to share.

This is what I'm getting on an AV Famicom with an Everdrive N8 Pro

Meanwhile, looks like running these on MiSTer makes this test fail

Running these on various software emulators will result in different results, as I mentioned

[graceful field]

I just ran the 02 test but could run others if it would be helpful

[fierce estuary]

huh

[runic sky]

This is a bit beyond my knowledge as I don't fully understand how the instruction decoding process works, but I believe this CPU-halting behavior should be a general behavior of the 6502? - https://www.pagetable.com/?p=39

[fierce estuary]

yes, it seems it does not stop the CPU on those opcodes. Is this standard 6502 behavior or specific to the 2A03?

[runic sky]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe it to be standard 6502 behavior

Here's a forum thread discussing it in regards to "Commodore and Atari" for example (which is where I found that article) - http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1406

[fierce estuary]

yes, it looks like these opcodes are just supposed to shift T all the way and effectively put the cpu in a deadlock

[glacial turtle]

Is this something that should be fixed?

[fierce estuary]

theoretically yes, but it doesn't really have much practical impact

but it should be made accurate at some point

not many people intentionally break the cpu

[tepid umbra]

I noticed in dragon warrior 2 that there are still some flickering pixel when 5 people stand in a row even with sprite limit turned off. I know it's a hack but I was wondering why that happens.

[runic sky]

Should I open an issue somewhere, in regards to the KIL opcodes? Though I wouldn't know where, if this is an issue with the 6502 implementation itself.

[glacial turtle]

Yes that would be helpful, it's always good to log legitimate issues so they are documented, especially if there is a corresponding test ROM that fails.

[runic sky]

Got it, I'll open an issue on the nes core repo later today.

[fierce estuary]

the game is probably programmed to do it. some games are aware of the sprite limit and try to mitigate it themselves.

[glacial turtle]

Did the core fail any other tests that pass on real hardware or just this one opcode issue?

Is there somewhere you can download these tests?

[fierce estuary]

if you understand the nature of these opcodes you'll understand why they arent very important

using any of them makes the cpu basically unresponsive. it crashes the system until you cycle it

[warm galleon]

Sounds useful

[runic sky]

I posted the tests here - #1091056042667937944 message

[fierce estuary]

not respecting them might have been intentional

[runic sky]

I don't think any commercial games make use of these opcodes ever? It's not even like the SNES version of this opcode, which puts the console in a low power state. If one of these opcodes ever gets executed, in all likelihood something went wrong within the game's code. So it's pretty useless.

However, the one case where this is relevant is with some speedruns making use of ACE exploits, such as Super Mario Bros. 3 Any%, or more recently Castlevania Any% w/ ACE. In these cases, if an emulator allows the CPU to continue running after one of these opcodes, the ACE might still work in situations where it shouldn't on original hardware, thus creating an inaccurate advantage so to say. On speedrunning leaderboards, platforms that don't accurately replicate these opcodes are generally not allowed, at least for categories where this behavior is relevant (which is what we're looking to do with Castlevania).

[fierce estuary]

nothing CAN make use of them. they freeze the cpu.

it literally halts the system

if you use them, the system goes fizzzzz

the useable undocumented opcodes exist and function

the halt ones don't

it's a fairly easy fix

im wondering though if we should, because if a game is glitchy and accidently spits one of those out, it's better for the user that their game doesnt crash

[runic sky]

Ah, good to know. I was wondering about that, but a handful of licensed titles do use other unofficial opcodes, so I figured it probably would've been more apparent if their behavior wasn't being emulated.

[fierce estuary]

yes, it passes all the unofficial opcode tests

just not kil

[runic sky]

I'm not sure about that. If a game is ever encountering one of these opcodes, it usually means something went wrong and the Program Counter somewhere it shouldn't be. It might be preferable to stop the CPU before, for example, some save data could get corrupted.

[fierce estuary]

or it could just recover

like your "unfair advantage" glitches

[runic sky]

Yeah, it could. But I'd say at that point what's going to happen next is pretty unpredictable.

[fierce estuary]

yes

if it gets to the point it's trying to KIL things are out of shape, but, in NES games it's very easy to accidentally hit a glitch

i've spent a lot of times debugging "bugs" that are actually just original game glitches

[runic sky]

I don't know if this is something that's easy to implement, but one solution could perhaps be to leave this up to user configuration?

[fierce estuary]

it could, with a boolean port. im inclined to have original behavior default, but I also believe in ideal user experiences which is why i'm pretty warm to extra sprites

[runic sky]

Gotcha.

[fierce estuary]

since this CPU is used in at least 10+ cores though it should be fixed

[inland blade]

coming from people's reports? I have seen dozens of reports on the MiSTer forum about slowdowns and whatnot from people that doesn't seem to have played a NES back in the day, and for some reason they think the games were always running at rock-solid 60FPS, which is a VERY funny thing to think about the NES library 😄

[fierce estuary]

slowdowns, or one person thought a little glitch worked on some bosses that it doesnt on a real nes, someone found some glitchy slowdowns in super mario that was original behavior, various graphical glitches that were just part of the original system, etc

in all fairness a flickering line in the middle of the screen would be considered a bug by modern standards, but that's just how games were sometimes

[clever scarab]

It’s why I always try to ask bug reporters if they’ve verified on real hardware first. The MiSTer’s cores are accurate enough that you need to always reference the original behavior first.

[tepid umbra]

I'm getting close to the end of dragon warrior 2 and I don't understand why this is considered one of the not so great dragon warrior/quest games. It's a great sequel to the first dragon warrior and a natural evolution. What am I missing?

[clever scarab]

It’s a combination of western perspective due to how late it came out and because DQIII is better.

[dreamy marten]

I enjoyed it too. Critiques I've seen were that the grinding is brutal. I think that's true but I'm slogging through DQ V because of grinding too.

[clever scarab]

In Japan DQII came out well before FF but in the US it came out after FF, so that has a slight bit of impact too.

[tepid umbra]

I play without a guide, so I don't grind I just try to find my way which takes a while 😅

[clever scarab]

Also Japan didn’t get the improvements done for the U.S. release of the first Dragon Quest, so a lot of the accessibility and graphical improvements in DQII were a bigger leap.

TLDR; American perspectives has diminished its importance

Thank you for attending my Rob Talk

[dreamy marten]

Wow that sounds really fun and also hard.

[tepid umbra]

I did the same thing last year with all the final fantasy games. It's just a different mindset.

[warm galleon]

DQ1 is a simpler game that is already good and fun. DQ2 was definitely a big upgrade, but wait till you get to DQ3 and DQ4 and you'll see why it's kinda seen as lesser. The game is extremely grindy, grindier than DQ1 somehow, the game's balance is pretty bad, you go from one spot to the next and the monsters just ruthlessly destroy you if you haven't overgrinded in the previous spot. DQ1 sorta was like this, but not to the same degree. DQ2 had these ridiculous bad design decisions too like invisible doors, tons of random treasures invisibly hidden with zero clues.

The story is good and it's part of the original trilogy of 1-2-3, the Erdrick saga which is referenced and played on heavily way later in the series, so it's a fundamental part of the series that I think everyone should play.

It's a good game for it's time, but when compared to what came after it in retrospect it's definitely not as good as it could have been.

cool interview with Yuji Horii on the challenges with DQ2, he admits it had a lot of problems

https://shmuplations.com/dragonquestii/

[tepid umbra]

I think this is one if the reasons I like to play old games I didn't play before in order. DQ2 isn't getting worse because it's sequels are greater.

Hope I can finish 1-3 before the remake hits, if rumors are to be believed.

[clever scarab]

Damn @warm galleon coming in here to steal my thunder

[warm galleon]

exactly

[clever scarab]

and he one upped me

[warm galleon]

it's best personally to play them in order

especially everyone should play dq1-3 before playing the latest one because it does some powerful callbacks

the others merely have soft references the way ff series does

[tepid umbra]

I already played dq11, but I didn't play it in 2d yet!

[warm galleon]

ah

so you got that story element of dqxi without the backstory of the original trilogy. that's okay too, the game is still great

[clever scarab]

no I think he had a markedly lesser experience

[warm galleon]

for me i was in tears emotional when the tail end of the story of that one kicks in that directly relates to the original trilogy

[clever scarab]

He missed all the important story bits

[warm galleon]

meh, you still get them, but there's just kind of a big nod to the fans and the weight of it is cool

[clever scarab]

All the complex story bits

[warm galleon]

lol

[clever scarab]

I pinged you because I forgot it did a callback lol

[tepid umbra]

I got it Robby, my experience was ruined!

[clever scarab]

lol I’m kidding sorry.

I don’t think it matters

[urban meadow]

You could say that you "Robbed" yourself of the full experience.

[tepid umbra]

Holy cow, that took forever. Now I'm ready to finish this game!

[twin siren]

https://tenor.com/view/owen-lars-joel-edgerton-star-wars-gif-26185668

[alpine meadow]

I'm still working on the first one, lol

[tepid umbra]

I finished the 2nd by now.

[clever scarab]

I beat them all years ago you u slow pokes

[tepid umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokémon-slowpoke-glitter-sparkling-gif-9077674878617351176

[tepid umbra]

I'm starting dragon warrior 3 now. Too bad they only made 7 of those games.

[alpine meadow]

Have you all seen the GDQ of DQ1?

[warm galleon]

yeah, it's kinda nuts

[alpine meadow]

I love it so much

[clever scarab]

I love MiSTer so much

[warm galleon]

Oh yeah? Why don't ya put a ring on it?

[clever scarab]

to love MiSTer is to let it be free

🫴🕊️

[warm galleon]

Truuu

[tepid umbra]

No, I love MiSTer more.

[urban meadow]

I love MiSTer most. The mostest of the most.

[alpine meadow]

Wait I can marry my MiSTer? Is it possible in Germany? Denmark I bet for sure.

I also I love my MiSTer so much. Don't even try to compete.

[tepid umbra]

It is. I am married to it right now.

[urban meadow]

I like where this conversation is going.

[verbal holly]

I now pronounce you Mister and Mister MiSTer

You may kiss the SBC

[warm galleon]

just gotta get a couple snac adapters and a link cable

[trim edge]

Someone married the Berlin Wall, soooo

She had to watch people rip her husband to pieces live on television, it was heartwrenching

[tepid umbra]

I get why you'd marry a pillow but why'd you marry a wall?

[dreamy marten]

For the fame

[main narwhal]

those broad shoulders

[sweet sparrow]

or if you want someone who will always beat you at tennis

[strong trout]

Has anyone managed to get "Doraemon" (1986) to run? All I get is garbage on the screen.

[low panther]

It's fine to me

[strong trout]

Weird; must be a ROM thing.

[sharp geode]

NES core ver. 24.04.08. Game Gun Sight (Japan) having one problem: one kill insta-death. Not even entering HARD password for enabling 1-hit death, i got insta-kill by one bullet shot. I don't know why, but it's weird

[sharp geode]

SHA-1 file is correct. Cheats not available

[fierce estuary]

sounds like a rom header problem, fix your header

[fierce estuary]

I really doubt this is a core bug from the sound of it, it's probably something wrong with the rom, can you test the same rom on another device?

[sharp geode]

lemme check on real hardware with everdrive

my guess is ok with the same rom

so, on console nothing wrong

it's like game checks on copyrights and if something wrong with PRG or CHR, game enabling Hard mode (Konami anti-piracy)

and how the game should actually works

[grand jewel]

I can confirm the issue too.
With a file freshly dumped from my JPN cartridge, the game is playing correctly on up-to-date Mesen2 and Ares.
iNES 2.0 header seems correct, mapper 5.
But the same file have a problem with the NES core (NES_20240520). The player is insta-killed with a single bullet.
The US version of the game (Laser Invasion) isn't affected.

[sharp geode]

entering password NAKA for stage 4 still having one hit death

[verbal holly]

interestingly the "Spiritualized" NES core on Analogue Pocket exhibits this same bug, which probably means the NT Mini has the same issue too, although I don't have one to test

or maybe not I guess depending on if it's an issue with the mapper emulation

but yeah definitely worth writing up an issue on github so this is tracked

[dry lynx]

For both cores to have an issue, that’s probably using some weird tricks

[grand jewel]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/issues/380

I've opened a ticket for the account of Death Devil, as it will be better documented there.

[fierce estuary]

it could be like initial ram values or something

damn where is that branch where i added an option to change ram values

[warm galleon]

yeah was gonna say, time to test on that hhee

[clever scarab]

Here’s a branch 🎋

[warm galleon]

https://tcrf.net/Laser_Invasion#Anti-Piracy

yeah it's known

at least a known "feature" of the japanese version

[blazing oracle]

🚨 CODE VIOLATION 🚨

You have violated rule #937 - talking about the Japanese version

[fierce estuary]

so it actually is just game behavior, that makes sense, I didnt expect it was a hardware bug with such specific impact

however, why cant it access that chr bank?

[warm galleon]

https://tcrf.net/Special:Contributions/Chiizo who is this chiizo person? their contrib history is filled with konami anti-piracy contributions there

they might have a good idea

does the japanese version of bucky o hare do the same thing?

looks like it checks it the same way

nvm bucky o hare is mapper 4 (mmc3)

[sharp geode]

no

game plays regular

[rare edge]

Please tell me, is it possible to run dumps with multi-game roms? For example, the Mesen emulator copes well with this.

[warm galleon]

Please don't attach roms here.

Even if it's a janky unlicensed game.

[rare edge]

Sorry

[warm galleon]

Some multi game roms work, some don't. It depends on if the mapper is supported yet or not.

[clever scarab]

If you think about it, the MiSTer is effectively a multi-game rom

[glacial turtle]

What carts are you trying to run and what mappers are they?

[sharp geode]

what kinda of multicarts you wanna try it?

[glacial turtle]

if you have a NES rom, what is the easiest way to find out what mapper it is?

[dry lynx]

I guess something to do with looking at the header? https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/NES_2.0#Header

[grand jewel]

NES2EDIT/iNES Header Editor should do the trick.

https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1352/

Don't forget to use NES 2.0 headers when necessary.

[glacial turtle]

Thanks chaps

Had a sidebar chat with @rare edge and the Mapper is 205 which we don't support currently

https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/INES_Mapper_205

Here are Disch's original notes:

= Mapper 205 =

Example Games:

15-in-1 (can be set via solder pad to show a 3-in-1 menu, with different games than the other 3-in-1 cart)
3-in-1

Registers:

Regs at $6000-7FFF means no SRAM

$6000-7FFF: [.... ..MM] Game Mode / Block

$8000-FFFF: MMC3

Notes:

These multicarts select the game mode by writing to $6000-7FFF, the individual games then use traditional
MMC3 style regs at $8000-FFFF. The MMC3 regs only swap to pages within the block specifed by the game
mode. This can be easily emulated by ANDing the page numbers written to MMC3 with certain values, and then
ORing them with other values, based on the selected block.

Chart below to illustrate:

Block PRG-AND PRG-OR CHR-AND CHR-OR

0         $1F        $00        $FF       $000
1         $1F        $10        $FF       $080
2         $0F        $20        $7F       $100
3         $0F        $30        $7F       $180

For details on MMC3, see mapper 004

[strong trout]

Is there an issue with mapper 118? I can't get "Armadillo" to work.

[grand jewel]

Pleae check your ROM dump.

Mapper 118 should work fine as I've played through Armadillo during last month.
And the core should have not changed since.

[tepid umbra]

Besides final fantasy, dragon warrior and mother, are there any other really good turn based jrpgs on nes?

[supple ermine]

Mother 1

Never mind, didn't see you said it.

Fire Emblem 1 and 2.

Also Megami Tensei.

Crystalis isn't really turn based.

[quasi gate]

I've never actually played through any of these but if you want some different flavors of rpg: lagrange point is sci-fi, glory of heracles is greece mythology, and adventures of musashi is ancient japan

you could also look at sweet home, although the rpg element kind of takes a back seat the further you get in the game. But it is a unique combo of horror / puzzle / rpg

[supple ermine]

Go to romhacking.net and search the NES fan translations for roleplaying.

[quasi gate]

metal max is also pretty unique

[tepid umbra]

I actually already finished fe1 on the core. 😅 lagrange point and Hercules look interesting though. For megami tensei I might opt for the snes remake, but not sure yet. I feel like nes rpgs are a bit hard to get into, but even harder to get out of.

Thank y'all for your recommendations.

[fierce estuary]

lagrange point has really interesting audio, it used an fm synthesis chip in the cart

kind of a mid game though

[supple ermine]

Actually I feel that Fire Emblem,at least of that era, is too hard to the point that you need to optimize your play too much to be fun. It also has too much "use a guide or you'll miss this character".

2 is actually not so bad because it's one of tge few FE games that lets you grind.

[tepid umbra]

I actually didn't think fe1 was too hard. Sure there are some moments you might lose a guy but that's normal for those kind of games.

[dry lynx]

What’s the best fire emblem to get started with? One of the new ones on switch?

[grand jewel]

Maybe Awakening on the 3DS for me.
Others could say Blazing Blade or Sacred Stones.

[tepid umbra]

Depends on which flavor you want. My favorite is fe6.

I also really liked path to radiance.

[lost plume]

I really enjoyed Lagrange Point but it is very, very unforgiving on the encounter rate

If you can look past it having to be turn based RPG I can also wholly recommend Radia Senki: Reimeihen which has an English patch

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/102/

[tepid umbra]

I don't mind random encounters. What's the game about?

[lost plume]

Lagrange Point is basically about a biohazard outbreak in space colonies after folks moved into space in the future, you basically go on a mission to find a dude and uncover what happened

[tepid umbra]

Sounds neat

[clever scarab]

@fierce estuary what’s your favorite Famicom game?

[fierce estuary]

that's tough. Maybe zelda. it really depends on my mood

I dont have a clear favorite

[clever scarab]

What’s your favorite unknown game?

[fierce estuary]

how unknown does it have to be to be unknown

because obviously I know it if it's going to be my favorite

like is crystalis known or unknown?

because i'd say crystalis if you just want a "not a blockbuster" game or solar jetman if you want a really obscure game

[tepid umbra]

Did you play the redux romhack? It's rather neat I think.

[fierce estuary]

i've played some

the zelda 2 one for sure

simons quest one

[lost plume]

Zelda 1 and 2 redux are nice for the QoL stuff they bring to the table and to mix it up for those that played the games to death, and making it more accessible for modern gamers isn’t a bad thing, but the originals just feel “right”, even if some elements drive you crazy

[quasi gate]

the redux patches for zelda 2 helped me get as far as I ever have in that game, I've always just kind of bounced off of it in the past. still never beat it though. Maybe one day

[clever scarab]

I beat it on the NES Mini thanks to save states. That Death Mountain gauntlet can be brutal.

[urban meadow]

I'm boring. My favorite NES game is Super Mario Bros. 3.

Other favorites of mine would be:
Punch-Out!!
Contra
Castlevania
Life Force
Mega Man 2
Metroid

[alpine meadow]

For me:
Castlevania
Super Mario Bros.
Tower of Druaga
The Legend of Zelda
Door Door
Metroid
Tetris
Goemon

It must be peak Konami with the NES and Famicom. Never again so many great games

[tepid umbra]

Woah the fact that nobody is even mentioning final fantasy. Or dragon warrior!

[verbal holly]

Gun-Nac, Super Mario Bros 3, Zelda, the rest is just Mega Man games

In no particular order

[dire lodge]

I tend to do casual/first runs with redux-patches, later runs on original rom for Retroachievements meanwhile...

[dire lodge]

Hooh, some favorites I might think on top of me head

• Castlevania 3 (JPN)
• Kid Dracula/Akumajou Special - Boku Drakula-Kun
• Quest of Ki
• Gradius 2 (FC)
• Nazo No Murasame Jo
• Magical Doropie ~~ (NOT KRION CONQUEST)~~
• Konami Wai Wai World
• Goemon 2

More mainstream ones: SMB2 + SMB3, Kirby's Adventure, LoZ1, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Mega Mans, Castlevania, Punch-Out!

Prolly might be more I haven't thought yet about

[quasi gate]

It's not doing anything particularly groundbreaking but I always liked Air Fortress. Throw some Ninja Gaiden 1 in there as well, I always enjoyed the pacing it had when you blast through stages. Also always enjoyed playing TMNT 2, 3 and Double Dragon for some beat em up action

[lost plume]

Real guilty pleasure of mine is Fester’s Quest, always gets slated, but it’s pretty fun

[clever scarab]

That’s because it’s awesome but they made the game impossible hard

Communication issue meant they didn’t include any form of progression saving either lol

[lost plume]

Ahh but the bugs that were present in the NTSC version that made it hard were fixed for the PAL release, so I never understood why everyone moaned how difficult it was lol there’s patches to fix them on the NTSC version now too

https://youtu.be/eZc3S0gSEg0?feature=shared

This video covers it all really well

[clever scarab]

omg

I had no idea! 🤯

[lost plume]

It’ll change your life, never again will Fester’s Quest illicit feelings of anger and nausea

[alpine meadow]

Dragon Warrior is really good too. Not yet finished though

[alpine meadow]

I feel like I don't understand how to effectively play TMNT 3

[quasi gate]

Not sure that I do either, but it's been a long while since I've played it. Jump kicking seemed pretty effective

[urban meadow]

Honestly, I do love those games. And they were basically my gateway into RPGs back in the day. But it wasn't until the SNES that I really fell in love with the genre. Final Fantasy 4 (aka 2 at the time on SNES) was the game that turned me into an obsessed RPG fan!

[tepid umbra]

My first "real" rpg other than pokemon was golden sun and I get it's a bit hard to go back to the 8bit rpgs. But ever since I played through all the final fantasy games and now dragon quest games I simply can't stop playing them.

It's like the time I thought olives are kinda nasty but actually they are delicious and I've wasted all this time not eating them.

[urban meadow]

Yeah, I love playing early RPGs. Just played through the remake of Wizardry recently as well, and it was super fun.

[tepid umbra]

I'll wait for that one to drop in price.

[mellow dawn]

Add mapper 205 (Tested on 9in1) and mapper 208 (Tested on Street Fighter IV) and reworked nsf player posted in test builds. @rare edge

[rare edge]

this is a dream? I can’t believe it... thank you very much, I’m shocked)

[glacial turtle]

Great work @mellow dawn , always nice to see new Mappers being added 🙂

[glacial turtle]

Are you able to test the 3-in-1 game you were wanting to play and let us know if it is working as expected?

[rare edge]

Yes, everything works great, thanks.

[calm jay]

Thank you GreyRogue!

[glacial turtle]

I will update the spreadsheet I have keeping track of Mappers once this goes live

[waxen shoal]

Random video of me playing Megaman 3. Can you guess what is being used to play it?

[clever scarab]

IT’S MISTER!!!!!!!!!

[waxen shoal]

nope hehe it’s a real NES this time because In testing out this

[clever scarab]

DAMNIT, the one time I used that joke!!! 😂

Also that’s pretty cool. What is it a replacement cart slot?

[waxen shoal]

yes

[tepid umbra]

Dang and here I am playing nes on mister like a caveman. 😭

[clever scarab]

But like a caveman from the future, it’s very complicated

[tepid umbra]

No, mister is surprisingly easy to use, hugely versatile and fun for hours on end. At least I'm a happy caveman.

[waxen shoal]

mister is great

[tepid umbra]

Also nes and gameboy is best ||everything more than 8bit computation was a mistake||

[hazy marsh]

Run-ahead but for life

[urban meadow]

I was going to guess Robby's 🥧 5️⃣ that you stole by sneaking into his house during the dark hour.

[hazy marsh]

"You've got a 🥧5️⃣ in there?"

[tepid umbra]

Only thing a 🥧5️⃣ does that mister doesn't is play am2r. I'd love a am2r core. 😦

[lost plume]

Is that the LaserBear NES slot in a custom 3D printed sled?

This thing

https://www.laserbear.net/products/nes-slotmaster

[waxen shoal]

looks similar

[clever scarab]

Well that’s interesting

[languid falcon]

https://blueshell3d.com/products/nintendrawer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lpCNMxGW3s

[fierce estuary]

or you could just cut the leg of the cic chip thing

[clever scarab]

I bent all my pins back

[lost plume]

Did the same, popped the 72pin into a pot of boiling water on a rolling boil, then bent back the pins

Couple up with disabling the CIC chip and had no issues at all

[clever scarab]

Omg you boiled it? Were you making Nintendo soup?

[primal prairie]

That clear case NES is really tripping me out somehow. It looks so different than other skeleton systems I've seen.

[clever scarab]

NES modding is cool as hell. If I weren’t such a cheap I would totally have a slick clear case too

[fierce estuary]

delicious nes broth with hints of resistor and diode accenting a stew of fresh asics and wild-caught roms

[clever scarab]

Maybe boiling is easier lol. I just took a little dental pick and bent each one individually.

[clever scarab]

Do you have a cool tricked out NES?

[fierce estuary]

I have a famicom AV in my basement somewhere with an RGB mod

[clever scarab]

Damn that’s pretty cooo, mine just has ninja turtle stickers lol

[fierce estuary]

the mister core is a lot better than the real nes though, so it's retired

[clever scarab]

How would you know that

It’s not like you wrote the core

[fierce estuary]

I ran test roms and they said "Better than the real thing, baby" so I know it's good

[glacial turtle]

Another easy NES mod a lot of people don't know about is removing the region locking from controller ports. Bizarrely the NES controllers were region locked, so one sold in the US wouldn't work in Europe and vice versa. You just need to solder a jumper wire on the controller ports to make them accept any controller.

I suspect a lot of people in Europe will have picked up a cheap US controller over the years and assumed it was broken because it was unresponsive on their European NES

You can also do it on the controllers themselves incidentally and make those multiregion

[hazy marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/anton-ego-ratatouille-gif-6125867

flashback to shooting the duck hunt duck

[lost plume]

Haha I read years ago boiling it was a sure fire way to get it going, not sure if it does anything other than make it easier to bend the pins though!

[clever scarab]

If it works, it works! 🍻

[lost plume]

I’ve just got into the habit now of boiling any connectors on NES’s that don’t work right now, I think if nothing else it’s become one of those weird superstitions I’ve made for myself 😂

[clever scarab]

“Wow it smells so good in there! Are you making dinner?”

“No, just boiling some Nintendo pin connectors…”

Cheftendo

[native thicket]

Lol I grew up with this thing.

[urban meadow]

Whoa, for a second there I thought batty had returned to us!

[native thicket]

Lol

[tepid umbra]

I miss batty 😭

[tepid umbra]

What are the most popular improvement hacks for metroid on nes? Metroid Mother looks interesting but metroid plus saving seems also good. I know the game doesn't really need improvements and I can use savestates instead of saves but still.

Oh, and no one dare answer zero mission!

[hazy marsh]

Have you seen Metroid MSU1?

[tepid umbra]

That's just for sound though isn't it?

[hazy marsh]

I believe it had some other QoL features. I'm not sure if there's a good summary of it out there

[urban meadow]

It actually does a lot more than that. It adds a full map feature and inventory screen similar to Super Metroid.

[verbal holly]

have you considered just playing Zero Mission instead

[tepid umbra]

It's not canon and not historically accurate I'm afraid.

But I will acknowledge the fact that it had the original game as an unlockable, which all remakes should have tbh.

[fierce estuary]

zero mission is a better game than the original

but the original gets a nod for being first

it hs a lot QoL shortcomings though

sitting there killing enemeies spawning for 20 minutes to refill your health, for instance

[tepid umbra]

I wouldn't say it's a better game per se. I actually prefer nestroid and played zero mission first. Yeah there are a few minor things that could be improved, that's why I asked for opinions. I'm now giving metroid mother together with the full life at start patch a whirl. Took me some time to get used to the sprites, but it's definitely a great game.

[clever scarab]

I got Metroid mOther patch and Zero Mission. They both rock. 👍

[tepid umbra]

Don't forget the mother 99 patch

Makes you restart with 99 health when you reload your game.

[alpine meadow]

I do like the map on the SNES port

That goes a long way

oh wait, that is what @hazy marsh is talking about

lol

[steep forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyQSb_tC0Fg

[urban meadow]

Radical dude!

[granite pivot]

Nice! I like how he talks about the US model NES, as well as Famicom. Surprised to hear mention of Silver Surfer and definitely agree it has incredible music.

[steep forge]

i like how he explains what the channels sound like too. also that jab at people that never played nes games lol

[granite pivot]

FDS sound channel is interesting. Some games make better use of it than others, but Doki Doki Panic uses it mostly for sound effects.

Dracula II's music seems rushed. Other Konami games like Gyruss made much better use of the FDS sound channel.

[fierce estuary]

I find metroid, zelda, and that miracle baby game to be some of the best uses

[tepid umbra]

They're also some of the best use of your time.

[warm galleon]

Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa!! such a good game

[alpine meadow]

It looks cool. Need ot plaz it

[fierce estuary]

it does odd things with the FDS channel, it was a game I had to test a lot implementing the audio

[shy plinth]

https://youtu.be/bsvVcDj85vA

Nothing makes me more nostalgic for the NES than early 2010s electropop

[calm jay]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/pull/386

New fixes for the NES core

[timber lava]

Yeah I will close my issue ticket for the mapper 210 🙂

[grand jewel]

Compilation in progress.

[sharp geode]

nice, will check it later

which one should download: unstable or this one?

nvm, Gun Sight works properly now

@grand jewel you can close issue

[grand jewel]

I forgot to close it earlier, thanks.

[supple jasper]

Tested NWC as working. Legit stoked about it. Got the worst score and couldn't be happier about it.

Wish I knew enough to code the mapper support for Campus Challenge

[fierce estuary]

I thought CC already worked

[supple jasper]

It didn't work for me, quick test after I verified NWC working, so not thorough. Will test again here soon after work.

[rare edge]

Please look at the game on famicom - Heisei Tensai Bakabon, personally it doesn't work for me...

[calm jay]

Is your rom from no intro set?

Doesn’t work, as in, doesn’t launch?

[rare edge]

artifacts and freezing

[glacial turtle]

What Mapper is it using?

[rare edge]

the game from the no-intro collection started working, why?

[glacial turtle]

So you have a ROM that is in no intro that isn't working for you?

[rare edge]

no, everything is fine, I just don’t understand why the roms from the goodnes assembly don’t work?

[glacial turtle]

Header issue maybe?

[sterile wren]

Is there a way to use the dipswitches in the core or no?

[fierce estuary]

it's not impossible to add them

there's ample bits now and it can be made to be selective based on mapper

[timber lava]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/pull/387

[clever scarab]

Awesome! Thank you!

[warm galleon]

so currently it's handled within MMC1 and not a new mapper module?

would probably want to detect the exact rom and unhide the DIP switch option conditionally

counter[28:25] <--- this needs to be variable based upon the dip switch setting in that mmc1_nesevent module

would change this --> assign irq = (counter[29:25] == 5'b10100); to something like this --> assign irq = (counter[29:25] == {1'b1, nwc_dips[3:0]});

might have a test build for ya in a jiffy here... lemme see if i got it right

@fierce estuary do the mappers have an output that i could use to detect if it's using that mapper?

first time mucking about in the mappers in nes

trying to get a hide signal for the osd

[fierce estuary]

of course

[warm galleon]

oh shit

[fierce estuary]

but I mentioned it to paul already

[warm galleon]

well there is an enable input hrmm

okay well paul can see my diff here and use it if he wants to

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/compare/master...birdybro:nwc_dips

something like this sorta

[fierce estuary]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/blob/master/NES.sv#L843

[topaz moon]

.mapper_flags    (downloading ? 64'd0 : mapper_flags),

[fierce estuary]

it's part of those im pretty sure

[warm galleon]

ahhh okay, there's a whole different ecosystem with the nes core that i was trying to thumb through lol

[fierce estuary]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/blob/master/NES.sv#L1476

[topaz moon]

assign mapper_flags[7:0]   = mapper;

[warm galleon]

thanks!

[rustic crown]

Hi everyone - can the core imitate different PPUs? Like I have a VS tent and if I put the wrong PPU (including bootleg ones) I get funky Colors

[fierce estuary]

VS uses special palettes as copy protection and is an RGB system

technically those palettes exist somewhere in this thread, I made them the last time this topic came up

#1091056042667937944 message

[twin siren]

wrong color on the background sky

they're VS blue colors and not the blue i grew up with

[calm jay]

mapper 99 merged to main core wen

[sand leaf]

was going thru the games that use 3d glasses

looks like this one has a bug
Highway Star (j) (fmg pirate)

odd not sure why that one was bugged

found an alt version, runs fine

[fierce estuary]

rad racer?

i'd ask you test it to make sure the header and game itself actually work

[grand jewel]

Highway Star (j) (fmg pirate) is known to be a corrupt dump.

Classified as 'baddump' on some databases.

[granite pivot]

I have the cart of Highway Star. It uses the Famicom 3D glasses and looks much better than the red/blue 3D of Rad Racer, partially because Square didn't adjust the cues properly for the non-shutter 3D glasses.

FC glasses work great with mister via SNAC too. Definitely more comfortable than the SMS glasses thanks to the strap.

[alpine meadow]

My red blue glasses don't work with Rad Racer for some reason. They work with other stuff

[fierce estuary]

I wonder how much palette choice impacts those red/blue glasses

[dry lynx]

Why not just pick the same colours as original hardware?

(Don’t answer that. I’m messing with you :D)

[granite pivot]

The reason is the developers not adjusting the 3D properly.

https://tcrf.net/Rad_Racer

[alpine meadow]

Thank you so much. That makes perfect sense.

[tepid umbra]

I think the kitrinx palette is pretty much what the colors are internally before the analog out makes them wonky. Personally I like the kitrinx saturated palette best.

[dry lynx]

I use the Kitrinx palette too. I was messing around with her because we chatted a few weeks back where she explained the challenges of designing the palettes 🙂

[lost plume]

Not got around to testing this yet

#unstable-nightlies message

Am I right in thinking the FDS fix is to stop that random garbled mess that occurs when backing up the save game to SD?

[glacial turtle]

Not sure if this is useful to anyone

https://x.com/furrtek/status/1826268659720831091

Furrtek (@furrtek) on X

Nintendo MMC5 Famicom/NES mapper.
A mixed signal custom chip from NEC (uPD6319) featuring RAM, a 8x8 multiplier, and thanks to the single metal layer, the clearest standard cells I've ever seen.

Twitter · Aug 21, 2024, 2:42 PM

[wet moat]

Hello, I cannot seem to get past the title screen on Nintendo World Championships 1990. Has anyone dealt with this and maybe have a fix? Could it be a mapper issue?

[timber lava]

you need to swap the controller

on the OSD

[wet moat]

Huge thank you for that!!

[timber lava]

it is the 2nd controller that can start the game

[wet moat]

really appreciate the tip, never knew!

[timber lava]

I learned it lately 🙂

[wet moat]

New issue, same game. Once I beat the super mario 50 coins and the screen says beat the stage in rad racer, it goes black and stays that way until the 5 minute timer is up and it shows the score total for all 3 games. no button presses on either controller does anything after going to that black screen. No way to play this one?

[timber lava]

Maybe if you could make a save state before the game goes to black screen we could opened an issue ticket

[wet moat]

Seems like there already is. posted in there - https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/issues/211

[timber lava]

I see normally it seems to be fixed with the last unofficial update regarding last comments of this ticket.
The unstable build
#unstable-nightlies message

[wet moat]

oh, I had no idea. I'll grab and try it after mowing the lawn.

[wet moat]

Okay, was able to test the latest unstable core and it works perfectly now. Thanks again @timber lava

[thin gale]

I feel like this is a question that I already know the answer (no), but just in case I'm missing something: is it possible to get a Virtual Boy controller working over snac? Like, reading the extra buttons.

I think a grand total of two homebrew games (one of which is physical only as far as I know) use it, so not a huge loss if not. It just would be neat if did work.

[glacial turtle]

As in NES games that use the VB controller?

Or do you mean for a theoretical VB core?

What connector type did VB controller use out of interest?

[warm galleon]

Unless the virtual boy controller uses the same protocols as an SNES or NES then it's probably not currently possible.

Until there is a vb core

[fierce estuary]

SNAC is just wires. It uses the original NES way of communicating with those wires

if you can use a vb controller's extra buttons with an original NES, it'll work. If you can't, it won't work.

[thin gale]

I'm using the VB adapter that the Reflex adapt uses plugged into a SNAX. It definitely works as a SNES controller in the NES core (ABXY diamond mapped to the dpad, as its supposed to according to this: https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Virtual_Boy_controller).

The one game I found that works with a VB controller (Candelabra - Estoscerro by sly dog studios) just doesn't seem to detect it as one. Or... has a bug that resets the option in the menu back to NES controls when saved, who knows! I certainly don't have a way to test it on real hardware.

Ah well, not a big loss: I'll just play it with the other control scheme: two NES controllers.

[thin gale]

Okay, I looked into it more (and by that, I mean seeing if anyone in MisterAddon's discord asked about it) and I guess the game requires a special adapter and physical modification to the controller itself. That answers that.
It still works as a SNES controller though. Might be useful for something a la Smash TV, I guess. If anything like would ever exist on the NES...

[fierce estuary]

it's just the nes controller protocol

if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't

[thin gale]

Okay, I found a raw input tester for NES, and yep, it does indeed read all the buttons on a Virtual Boy controller via SNAC. Either its the game or I'm not saving the settings right.

[solemn sedge]

IIRC candelabra requires modding the VB controller itself. I think I fell down this rabbit hole last year. Decided it wasn’t worth hacking up the controller.

[thin gale]

Yep, I read your post on the Mister Addons discord. Now that I read it closer, I think what you linked to was just so you could use the A/B button as A/B buttons instead of using the diamond right dpad, but it's hard to say if the game expected it be that way. Especially since I don't think the game dev ever posted the modification video he promised. Either way, the game def. does not seem to want to switch to VB controls even though the SNAC adapter does work and all inputs are being read by the core.

[verbal holly]

IIRC some homebrew games make use of the extra buttons on a SNES controller, which should work via SNAC at least

[thin gale]

Yep, Full Quiet is one (wouldn't use the extra buttons with a VB controller, but does with a real SNES controller).

Nova the Squirrel too (does work properly with a VB controller although using a DPad as ABXY isn't great)

[fierce estuary]

what a useless game hack

if it's really that bad I can add some controller modes in the future

but I find game hacks like this distasteful

[hidden isle]

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask this or not, so if not please point me in the right direction. I've noticed that when loading a different rom from the OSD menu while already playing a game, (e.g., changing from rom A to B) if there is a .sav file for B on the system it will be used, but if not, the .sav for (or equivalent data, I guess) for A will "persist" into the boot to B.

Is this intended behavior?

[fierce estuary]

it doesn't clear ram

it's sort of intended

the real system has a lot of different behavior for the initial state of ram, but not many things (if anything) requires it being clear

some things do benefit from it being "dirty" though

really it should be an option

like clear: 0xFF, 0x00, Random, None

[heady valve]

Does Pac-Man championship edition work for anyone else? I just get glitched graphics, I swear this used to work.

Nvm that I apparently had a bad rom, I was like 100 percent sure I’d run this before though. Oh well happy to get it going.

[hidden isle]

thanks Kitrinx!

I guess follow up question, does a soft reset on the NES core act the same way as original hardware wrt ram?

[clever scarab]

Don’t thank her, it’ll go to her head. You gotta say “it’s about damn time!”

[dry lynx]

it’s about damn time!

What’s about damn time?

[clever scarab]

I dunno lol

But whatever it is we’ve been waiting long enough!

[dry lynx]

One RAM clearing method by Christmas?

[fierce estuary]

can you be more specific? which ram?

chr ram? prg ram? system ram? OAM ram? Palette RAM? which mapper?

the timing with the ram is used is accurate in all cases, the initial values of ram are accurate in some cases. RAM decay of OAM isn't implemented because it's kinda pointless. Usage patterns are accurate.

a lot of cases the initial value isnt really known (or cared about) because the game properly initializes it when it boots

only a few sloppy games dont and that's where it can matter

some RNG in games is based on initial ram values and it being "dirty"

hopefully somewhere in that meandering answer I have covered your question

there's a particular battletoads game where initial ram values will break it if they aren't 0xFF

but im pretty sure we added a thing to fix that

[clever scarab]

** 𝐂𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐃𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐨𝐩𝐞𝐫 **

Core By - @fierce estuary
-# ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎↳ With support from @fallen brook & @tame flame

Patreon - [LINK]

(please consider joining the MiSTer FPGA's Patreon to help support development)

[hidden isle]

I can't, unfortunately. I guess I just mean whatever ram you were referring to by "it doesn't clear ram".

[fierce estuary]

prg ram in that case (the battery backed sram for saving)

[hidden isle]

your meandering did hit a few of the points I was wondering about, but I'm not sure if I understand yet. The game I found this in was the legend of zelda

I do speedrun attempts on the mister, and therefore one question is will resetting at different places in the run/gameplay affect the state of ram in different ways

and if so, is this behavior consistent with original hardware

[dry lynx]

I can’t speak to this example specifically, but usually with MiSTer, the answer is “yes, unless proven otherwise”, especially on more mature cores like the NES

That might not be the case with newer cores that are still in very active development, like the Saturn, for example

[fierce estuary]

soft reset should be very accurate to the original system

loading a rom is hard to define "accurate" because the original system had no particularly defined behavior for changing carts

some cart ram had defined behavior

the behavior of reset vs power cycle is different

[hidden isle]

thank you!

[wide void]

Really digging this new Mario 3 hack

[clever scarab]

Yeah it’s legit amazing

[granite pivot]

The standard ROM works, but the safe overscan hack doesn't. It used to work, though. Some other hacks that work on real hardware like some of the arcade Gradius hacks also have issues with the latest NES core.

[fierce estuary]

"work on real hardware" is pretty dubious with hacks, are they using headers? what are the correct headers for these hacks?

[granite pivot]

I think that's the issue since they have 1.0 headers. They aren't in the database and the header fixer doesn't detect them. I'll try editing the Pac-Man CE header to match the non-hacked version.

odd. I got the same behavior in Mesen when I changed it to match the header of the non-hacked version.

a few of these hacks use mapper 19

Actually, I think all of them use mapper 19

[granite pivot]

I'll try some non hacked Mapper 19 games to see if they still work.

The gradius AC hack that doesn't use mapper 19 works. The Twinbee and Mappy hacks with mapper 19 work.

and non-hacked mapper 19 games work

[fierce estuary]

namco mapper, it has several submappers

that's a messy mapper

it's probably an assumed ram issue

that would be my first guess

it's using the mapper with an odd ram configuration

is it really 19? why use that? for the sound?

[granite pivot]

yes, these hacks use the namco sound chip

The Gradius hack uses it for a recreation of the AC boot up screen.

[fierce estuary]

it looks like the licensed games it's used for arent very popular so it might be an issue with the mapper or an unexpected non-standard usage of it, or an incorrect header usage for it

[granite pivot]

Actually, the boot screen is literally all the Twinbee and Gradius Mapper 19 hacks are used for. Main gameplay is standard NES sound. Both have hacks without the boot screen.

[granite pivot]

I got the Pac-Man CE hack working. Just had to patch the Pac-Man CE rom with the correct header and it carried over.

TBH, those Gradius Hacks are a mess to sort out. From a Japanese page that gives you links to multiple patches.

Pac-Man CE hack is just for overscan, but it makes a difference on CRT.

[fierce estuary]

mister is 100% reliant on headers, so it stands to reason

we dont really fudge it with some things that seem harmless

[granite pivot]

I'm glad your header fixer exists. Thank you

[rigid sedge]

Just tried out the NES core for the first time today and having some issues with audio. I get video but no audio at all. I’m sure it’s a setting I’m overlooking. Running my audio from the 3.5mm jack. Anyone got a good place for me to start looking?

[fierce estuary]

check the volume?

[warm galleon]

Yeah, check the volume slider in the menu

[gray narwhal]

Having issues with Pac-Man Championship Edition Demake after core update. I'm wondering if anyone else is having the same problem. The game is now unplayable.

[glacial turtle]

If you download the previous .rbf does it still work for you?

[gray narwhal]

Game works perfectly on NES_20240408.rbf. When I update to NES_20240912.rbf it's unplayable.

[granite pivot]

Are you using the overscan hack? It's a header issue with Mapper 19 games. Kitrinx's script fixes the rom from the Namco Museum Archives with a 2.0 header and I used the online patcher at romhacking.net to make a patched overscan ROM with the NES 2.0 header

checksum doesn't match the one with the online patcher, but it does put out a rom with a 2.0 header that works on mister.

The games still work, but the core is now more sensitive to poor headers

[urban meadow]

Whoa yeah, it's busted for me too.

Definitely worked previously.

No clue what version of the game I have since I've had it for so long. All I know is that it used to work, but now it doesn't.

Okay, so I downloaded another version, and that one works. So yeah, some version out there does not play nice with the latest core. Was easy enough to "fix" at least.

[mellow dawn]

The change is probably this one

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NES_MiSTer/commit/6bcb353e8e90faa098b7b4be4ffbe974fdf79535

It requires the header be more accurate for mappers 210 and 19

[vapid tusk]

can you post the checksum of the one that worked for you?

[urban meadow]

I...don't know how to do that.

[granite pivot]

CRC32: 39E8AE60 from the Namco Museum Archives with fixed 2.0 header - works on MiSTer

CRC32: D29874B6 Pac-Man CE with overscan patch that works on MiSTer

[vapid tusk]

no worries

[vapid tusk]

thanks!

[gray narwhal]

Downloaded that patch and now it works. I didn't even know this hack existed, thank you. This hack fixed my OCD with this game on a CRT, the overscan on the scores up top always bugged me. I wish I knew about it before I made my physical cartridges.

[gray narwhal]

I saw that, so the header is the issue

[hasty river]

https://x.com/somethinnerdy/status/1841568560185012317?s=46

Something Nerdy Studios (@SomethinNerdy) on X

@DiniertoDesigns Re: MiSTer

We are willing to work with MiSTer devs a little while after the game releases to implement MXM-1 on it which would then allow Former Dawn to run on it.

But not until then, because of the predictable increase in piracy that would occur if we did.

Twitter · Oct 2, 2024, 7:58 PM

[calm jay]

Well, it’s good to know they are willing to work with mister devs

[urban meadow]

So is MXM-1 some custom chip in the cartridge?

Stuff like that always makes projects like this feel less impressive to me since they couldn't have been done back in the day on the hardware. I get that a lot of NES games used specific chips to enhance them back in the day, but those chips were designed at the time that the hardware was still on the market. A custom chip designed 30 years later just makes it feel a lot less impressive than it does at first glance.

Regardless, the game still looks fantastic on its own merit. And I'll be happy to pay them for a rom that I can play on my MiSTer some day in the future.

[hazy marsh]

As a mister enthusiast I'm all for chip gatekeeping

I would also gladly buy the game if it turns out as good as it looks

[dreamy marten]

Yeah i bought a xenocrisis rom a couple months ago for mister and it's pretty old.

Not interested in buying a full cartridge though

[fierce estuary]

tbh that mapper is pretty uninteresting to me

it's kind of like the atari arm things

i'm much more impressed by Micro Mages

like if you want to make a game that needs all that power just make it for snes

we have better systems for that

[hasty river]

https://x.com/somethinnerdy/status/1841819172398907577?s=46

Something Nerdy Studios (@SomethinNerdy) on X

@AndreaBogazzi @DiniertoDesigns Yes; we're doing something similar to what @theurquanmaster did for the Children of Infinity KS campaign.

I.e. we will release everything, including MXM-1, under permissive open source licenses.

If we meet the stretch goal, we'll release MXM-1 before the game comes out.

Twitter · Oct 3, 2024, 12:34 PM

[dreamy marten]

I went to their website to see if they had an explanation of why they are creating a new mapper and it might be in the 100,000 word essay talking about their process but idk who is going to read that.

I did catch that "Therefore, the only way to play Former Dawn properly on a toploader NES will be to mod the unit."

Which seems insane to me.

Oh, they have a tldr; It's an audio expansion thing.

[fierce estuary]

yes

basically it's like a feature bloat mapper

the game will only play properly on original famicoms or modded nes

it seems to be a mapper more complex than the nes itself

seems like it kind of got away from them

[dreamy marten]

Oh boy

[verbal holly]

I'm morally opposed to adding crap like this to emulators, people will ask for it for sure but like, I don't think it's fair for developers to continually be chasing whatever insane add ons people wind up cooking up...

some stuff is ok I guess, like hombrew games/rom hacks that use slightly bigger roms, or yeah stuff like MSU-1 for SNES that is at least a standardised thing that is shared by a bunch of hacks and games

but yeah random bespoke mappers and add ons like this are kind of silly

[stuck mulch]

Adding it to the emulator just means preservation of the homebrew scene. It's not really different from games like Hayazashi Nidan Morita Shougi 2 on SNES that had a one of a kind enhancement chip for the game's AI, except it's more recent by devs who want to see how much they can push the console.

[verbal holly]

I mean it's very different, the former released during the actual system's lifetime and therefore we know it was feasible for the time, you could whack any modern hardware that you like in a modern cart and be wildly out of spec, even if you try to write an entire essay to try and justify to yourself that it isn't cheating...

not that I don't think that stuff isn't fun or cool, but it's a hardware project at that point

[clever scarab]

I don’t consider it an NES game myself. It’s the same with 32X, it’s reliant on hardware far beyond the capabilities of the base Genesis that we don’t consider them Genesis games.

But we don’t have any classification of games that go way beyond original hardware so it’s just easier to say it’s an NES game.

Like the Atari carts with ram chips.

[granite pivot]

What do you think of Blazing Rangers? That game uses mapper 0 and it's one of the better NES homebrews I have played. I found Boulder Dash to be one of the more impressive 2600 homebrews. Uses a bigger cart than bitd, but doesn't use the ARM and the demo works on mister (full version probably does too, but game is only sold physically with no digital version of the full game being sold).

[fierce estuary]

I respect that

I just dont see why we need to make up big fancy mappers when things like mmc5 exist

if you cant make a game with mmc5 you probably shouldnt make it for nes

you aren't "pushing the system" making bigger mappers, you're just using the system as a pass through for some big powerful modern chip on the cart

[terse grotto]

i think the distinction they draw about processing makes sense, tho

all the actual computing is happening on the NES same as with any older game

it's closer in some ways to being a "real" NES game than a SuperFX or MSU-1 game is to being a "real" SNES game

[hasty river]

I just wanna play the game, sounds like I can do it on consoles and PC though

Still there's something nifty about playing it on MiSTer as dumb as it sounds

[solemn sedge]

I disagree with that logic, or that example rather. We call Star Wars Arcade a 32x game because it 'requires' a 32x to be played. This new homebrew, requires a Famicom(or modded NES) to be played. So to me, it is a defacto NES game.

Not asking any MiSTer dev to support it. Just adding my opinion here. I get that it's new and modern, but the argument thata it isn't a insert-system-name- here game because it utilizes hardware beyond original system doesn't sit well with me. By that analogy, StarFox is not a SNES game because it uses the SuperFX. Virtua Racing is not a Genesis game of the Sega Virtua Processor. And most every NES game is not a NES game because of the different mappers.

^Not meant as an argument or debate, just adding different perspective.

[clever scarab]

The argument sits well with me!

[fierce estuary]

I hate MSU-1 quite a bit as well. It's a matter of scale though, and mostly likely the majority of the processing is not done in the 6502 but rather only basic fetches of pre-processes information. On the atari arm "mappers" for instance all the physics of the game are done in the 75mhz arm chip and the system is simply used bluntly as a paintbrush.

that's not really a co processor as much as a whole alternate system

[clever scarab]

I always thought the MSU-1 was supposed to be a “what if the Nintendo PlayStation was real”

[terse grotto]

in this case they specifically talk in their blog post about the limitations they put in place for the project and doing 100% of the computation in the 6502 was one of the main ones

like, i agree that games that just use the underlying platform as an output pipe are pretty badly missing the point but there's at least a specific attempt on this one to not do that, whether or not you agree the spot they fell accomplishes it

[fierce estuary]

in this case it's being highly anachronistic and simply replacing the system. It's like taking a hand screwdiver and gluing it to the end of a drill and saying "Look I made this using only hand tools"

like just freaking use the right tool for the job

dont play stupid games

[terse grotto]

sort of, but IIRC the way it approaches the content it loads is pretty anachronistic in a way that i have always thought is neat but not very faithful

that said i have a new appreciation for it ever since people used it to more effectively simulate the BSX games

[clever scarab]

It’s pretty cool, I like it a lot.

[terse grotto]

i'm trying to think what i've actually used it for in practice

FF6 T-Edition has an MSU-1 soundtrack pack purely to get around bugs the author introduced into the music playing over time. that's fine by me inasmuch as T-Edition is an insane Frankenstein's monster held together with spit and prayer

the BSX stuff again is a very neat and appropriate use

i made a hack myself of Final Fantasy C2 (this is a hack of FF4 to implement a version of the FF2 storyline) to insert FF1+2 music in place of the FF4 stuff, but that was purely as a personal exercise lol

[clever scarab]

The Killer Instinct MSU-1 patch adds in FMV and music from the arcade game. It’s this weird ass amalgamation but it’s absolutely awesome.

[terse grotto]

the tokimemo MSU-1 version is also neat on a similar level, since it pulls in stuff from the superior PC version

[twin siren]

you're a weird ass amalgamation