NEC PC Engine / TGFX16

[zealous dock]

There are two of then

1992 and 1991

a think I need a pc engine super

[olive ferry]

I tested that the one on the left can start the game

Japanese "Super CD-ROM System v3.0" , Size should be 256 KB (262,144), md5sum : 38179df8f4ac870017db21ebcbf53114

[zealous dock]

thx @olive ferry

[grand moss]

That's right - there are several games which won't run on the American System 3.0 BIOS, so I tell people to use the Japanese one in order to prevent problems

Alshark, Bonanza Brothers, and a few others

[olive ferry]

For CD-GAME, can I only change \Cheats\TGFX16-CD*.zip to the same name as the game and put it into games\TGFX16-CD\ for use? It seems that HU-GAME with *.pce does not need to do this...

[grand moss]

I don't know how cheats would work on TG CD, I've never looked into the cheats code

Maybe somebody else around here knows

[shut walrus]

That is how it works yes

I dont have any great insight into changing it mind you

[coarse shadow]

Cheats for PC-Engine CD games seems complicated enough. A lot of the Gamehacking.org converted cheats for MiSTer won't work properly. I mostly use cheats patched directly into the CD Image, via hexeditor.

MiSTer cheats for HuCard games are mostly fine though.

[true flare]

You supposedly need a bios that is byte swapped.

I would have assumed that if this is true, having one that isn't would just fail completely, but that apparently is not true and I don't understand it.

[shut walrus]

I wouldnt know where to find something like that, but Id like to try it out

[true flare]

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=2323

[shut walrus]

So 3.01 is byte swapped?

[true flare]

There's no 3.01.

[shut walrus]

It isnt clear to me what the updater is currently downloading, if that is a byte swapped BIOS, etc

[grand moss]

If you're not using the Japanese BIOS, you're probably using the wrong one. That's not byte-swapped.

Japanese 3.0 is most universal

[true flare]

Is the byte swapped thing true? If it is, why would having it byte swapped work at all?

[grand moss]

The only thing that could be byte-swapped is that the American cards were reverse-order from Japanese, but that's a toggle on MiSTer, not something that you need to do. And the American System 3.0 Card has too many incompatibilites (because the Japanese games check for specific memory locations), so just use the Japanese card, and forget about byte-swapping

Most American ROMs out in the wild have already been byte-swapped anyway, so again you don't need to worry about it

[true flare]

So that thread is nonsense then?

[grand moss]

I have no idea where the byte-swapped thing came from

but then again, I don't use the cheat engine, so I don't know the specifics

[true flare]

According to the thread,the mister core readme mentions the byte swapping.

[astral valley]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/TurboGrafx16_MiSTer

CD-ROM images must be in BIN/CUE or CHD format, and must be located in the TGFX16-CD folder. Each CD-ROM image must have its own folder. cd_bios.rom must be placed in the same TGFX16-CD folder as the images mentioned above. Japanese Super CD-ROM v3.00 is recomended for maximum compatibility. Additionally you can use a different bios for specific games (for example from Games Express) by placing cd_bios.rom inside the game image's folder.

Do not zip CD-ROM images! It won't work correctly.

Attention about US BIOS: MiSTer requires original dump of US BIOS to work properly. It needs to be of 262144 bytes. If you can read copyright string at the end of US BIOS file, then it's not correct dump! It's already pre-swapped for emulators. While it will work on MiSTer, some CD games will refuse to start. Correct US BIOS file is when copyright string is not readable.

this seems to be the only place where any talk of byteswapped bios is written

[grand moss]

Japanese Super CD-ROM v3.00 is recomended for maximum compatibility.

In the first paragraph

[astral valley]

yeah I just think maybe some people are getting confused because the US BIOS talk right after

[true flare]

My confusion is to how a byte swapped bios could work but cause some games not to start. You'd think it would cause all games not to start.

[grand moss]

The reason some games don't start is because they aren't compatible with the US BIOS. (Games' fault)

several different reasons for this, but anyway, that's why we say use the Japanese bios

[true flare]

But the way that is written it sounds like they fail to start because it is byteswapped.

Also I saw a place which claimed Future Boy Conan doesn't work with a US bios. I had it and it absolutely does.

Unless there's just some obscure crash I didn't notice.

[grand moss]

Alshark, A.III, Bonanza Brothers, and some others.

[true flare]

I didn't have any of those.

[grand moss]

In any case, on MiSTer, backup RAM is created separately for each game, so there is no need to go into the backup memory manager, which I think is the only place I've seen Japanese text on the Japanese BIOS (which means there is no reason for users to avoid it). I hav to remind people to use that BIOS every so often because somebody comes to report that some game isn't working with the US system card (as would also be the case on real hardware)

[olive ferry]

Does the bios have a size limit that cannot accommodate more fonts?

[grand moss]

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish, or what issue you are talking about....

If we are talking about the System BIOS for PC Engine (or US TurboGrafx), there is no difference in the available fonts. Not sure why additional fonts would be helpful ?

[zealous dock]

I'm totally lost here hehehe

I think you just need rename the cd-rom bios

That works for me

[hoary quail]

Relative newbie to the PC Engine library, curious to ask those more familiar how critical you find turbo for PCE games?
Struggled to find old chat around the autofire rate of MiSTer being different, but wondering how critical this is? I've been looking at getting dshadoff's SNAC design to avoid issues, but don't know the library well enough to know how sensitive this turbo fire timing is

Was reminded of the topic in mylifeingamings recent video example with Legendary Axe, perfectly timed to keep a boulder back in that game.

[regal valley]

its more of an issue if you are used to it to play some ganes

[grand moss]

If you use USB controllers, I added an option to use additional buttons for the "correct turbo". One choice in the Hardware menu is Controller, which until recently was "2-button" / "6-Button". Now it includes 2-button turbo.
If you look at a SNES controller for reference, the buttons labelled A and B are "turbo low" if you press X and Y respectively; and "turbo high" if you use L and R.
You'll need to figure out whatever actual buttons those map to on your own controller (and setup); I'm using those as a basis for communication, since the SNES buttons are the ones used for reference during the controller setup on MiSTer.

[mellow crane]

That's funny

[hoary quail]

This sounds perfect. I'd completely missed this feature being added. To achieve the "turbo low" and "turbo high" buttons, do you define TGFX16 buttons for the III, IV, V, and VI buttons? Can't seem to work out how to get turbo high to work

[grand moss]

You can... I just use a SNES-type controller, and they're already defined. I don't spend any time remapping keys though.
The only thing I do is go into the Hardware menu and choose Controller: 2 Turbo

(It's not the default)

[hoary quail]

Maybe my mapping has overriden the turbo then.... I'll try and delete the config file

I am getting turbo, but I seem to get Button II Turbo at the same level using both SNES Y and R. Seem's like a "turbo low"

[grand moss]

Some games they are hard to tell apart

[hoary quail]

I think that was indeed my mistake. It is definitely doing something! False alarm. Thanks very much for this feature. Noticed it isn't listed as a feature anywhere in the GitHub main page for the core, or the help from what I could see. Really nice to have though

[grand moss]

Ah OK, I'll see if I can update the readme on the github repository tonight or tomorrow

[olive ferry]

There are some games translated in other languages ​​that seem to need to rely on the modded bios? Have some language characters been added?

[grand moss]

Oh, that was a BIOS I modified to add a function for more English characters.

That's basically a Japanese 3.0 BIOS anyway

When somebody wants to write a translation patch, they need to rewrite the print function.

[olive ferry]

Is the bios subject to size or other limitations that prevent it from being a multilingual bios?

[grand moss]

Part of that work requires a new font. Usually the game already uses a lot of memory, so it's hard to fit into the game. Putting it in the BIOS reduces that requirement on "game memory"

[grand moss]

Memory is tight on these old machines, so it depends which language.

French/Spanish/Italian... that's probably possible

Arabic, Urdu, Chinese - not really possible.

[olive ferry]

I forgot these old consoles had very little memory

[grand moss]

The Japanese BIOS already contains a few thousand Japanese kanji, which have some overlap to Chinese hanyu, but it's not sufficient for Chinese sentences.

[olive ferry]

Yes, some Chinese bios can no longer display Japanese characters, and some Japanese characters may have been removed.

[grand moss]

For which console ?

[olive ferry]

pc-engine

The recently launched analogue duo cannot use customized bios. Maybe it also affects the translation game?

[grand moss]

I've never heard of a Chinese modified BIOS for PC Engine... how can I learn more ?

About Analogue, translated games shouldn't be affected, although they may not be recognized if Analog has a "database".
There is only one game which requires my English font BIOS, and that should be OK if the BIOS is run from a multi-cart like the Everdrive

[olive ferry]

Some Chinese enthusiasts have translated two CD games into Chinese. Although there are not many Chinese characters, specific bios (chinese) are required.

[grand moss]

How recent is this ? And is there a link ?

[olive ferry]

This seems to be a recent thing, Castlevania: Rondo of Blood / Tengai Makyo - Ziria, but maybe it only has some Chinese fonts?

[grand moss]

It sounds intersting

Let me know if you can find a link to learn more

I would expect that it would use only a limited vocabulary - probably less than 2000 kanji were in the ROM in the first place, and they could all be replaced, but that probably wouldn't be enough for proper Chinese... maybe it's for smaller-vocabulary usage ?

Also, I assume this is simplified Chinese, not traditional ?

[olive ferry]

If there were suitable fonts, would it be possible to add more languages?

[grand moss]

I guess... but there would still need to be changes to print functions, and translated texts.

Translations take a lot of effort (and the hacking does too).

although if somebody is taking an English translation and re-translating it to another language, there may be less hacking work needed (because there is already a template)

[shut walrus]

From #general-banter good Hucard games: Dragon Spirit, Dragon Saber, Final Soldier, Genpei Toumaden, Gradius, Jackie Chan, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Legend of Hero Tonma, Maerchen Maze, Magical Chase, Mr Heli no Daibouken, Ordyne, Parasol Stars, Raiden, Sidearms, Soldier Blade, Super Star Soldier, Valkyrie no Densetsu, Vigilante, Youkai Douchuuki

[solar fjord]

thanks for posting it here too

[shut walrus]

Ill just type out some Super CD games too

[solar fjord]

awesome, thanks again

[shut walrus]

Akumajo Dracula X: Rondo of Blood, Cosmic Fantasy 2, Dungeon Explorer II, Exile/Exile Wicked Phenomenon, Fausette Amour, Final Zone II (Japan), Gate of Thunder, Ginga Fukei Denetsu Sapphire, Gradius 2, Hellfire S, Hyper Dyne - Side Arms Special, Image Fight II, In Magical Adventure Fray CD Xak Gaiden, Kaze Kiri Ninja Action, L-Dis, Lords of Thunder, NEXZR, Rayxanber III, Seirei Senshi Spriggan, Summer Carnival 92 and 93, Super Air Zonk, Super Darius 2, Sylphia, Valis 4, Ys 1 +2/3/4, Zero Wing

[solar fjord]

nice

[shut walrus]

There are more, but a good starter set to sift through and keep/discard according to personal taste

[stiff lotus]

but you didn't list Take it Egg

[shut walrus]

How could I forget that

[stiff lotus]

the best game

[shut walrus]

Thank you Robby

[stiff lotus]

lol Summer Carnival '92 is called Alzadick

also I had no idea those games existed, they look cool. thank you batty

[olive ferry]

When I was a kid, I used to play "Motor Roader" with my friends for 5 people. It was a nostalgic time.

[grand moss]

Imagine all the games that you ever saw were NES-level, then seeing some HuCard games and being reasonably impressed....

then put in Ys Book 1 & 2 through a stereo

or Super Darius

Totally different than cartridge games

[olive ferry]

Yes, so I have always thought that pcengine is a highly collectible console and game, with rich and interesting 2D GAME treasures

I will never forget the day when I put the amplifier on YS Street, and Tengai Makyo - Ziria, Ryuichi Sakamoto's music was amazing

[shut walrus]

Gotta play em all.. er hoard them all on my server

[grand moss]

Agreed. I don't think it would have the same impact today, but back then it was amazing (the CD music)

[shut walrus]

I find that particular era/media/platform of CD games really interesting and aesthetically pleasing. Its not FMV, its not digitized actors, its actual sprites and background layers imitating these things or anime cells with voice acting

So cool

[olive ferry]

Designers need to make amazing designs in extremely small bits, and I think many of today's high-resolution retro games don't really grasp these innovations.

[astral valley]

Ys Book I&II is still the only legit TurboCD game I own

I love it so much

[mellow crane]

It was amazing to experience back then

[solar fjord]

Ys is like an RPG game, right?

[mellow crane]

Action RPG, yeah. Like Zelda but with bump n grind combat

[solar fjord]

So kinda like Hydlide then

[mellow crane]

Yeah. Fair comparison. But better imo.

[solar fjord]

Yeah, saw an AVGN review of Hydlide, I myself tried to play that, and yep, horrible

[mellow crane]

I never enjoyed it myself. Ys I and II have amazing music so that's a plus

[regal valley]

to add to the list I can suggest: Devil's Crush, Mesopotamia, Gekisha Boy (translated), Coryoon, Pacland, Splatterhouse, Adventure Island, Bonk 1/2/3, Air Zonk, Legendary Axe

The Kung Fu is worth playing just to get into a boss fight with kevtris 🤣

[shut walrus]

Hahaha I forgot about that

[plucky python]

Some of my all time favorite gaming memories are of getting the TG-16 and Turbo CD with Ys. One of my friends got it first and I was absolutely blown away by the music and anime cut scenes. I worked all summer to save up and bought it for myself Christmas of 1990 if I remember correctly. It became the show off toy anytime neighborhood kids came over or my family had company at the house. Good times. And yes, I had it hooked up to my stereo system. I still listen to the Ys soundtrack to this day.

[languid pagoda]

This chat reads like a Ys commercial, now I want to play Ys.

[astral valley]

yes you should play it

[languid pagoda]

Dunno what you're talking about.

😂

[regal valley]

the PC Engine soundtrack for Ys is really something else - even the intro is a banger

[olive ferry]

Feena、Reah and Lilia...

[hoary quail]

MiSTer is like the perfect Ys 1-5 machine. Never played the series until I tried the SMS Ys 1 a year or two ago. Now one of my all time favourite series

PC Engine versions are fantastic, as someone with zero nostalgia I also listen to soundtracks on repeat

[languid pagoda]

So for someone like me who never played Ys, which versions would be the ones to go for on mister?

[astral valley]

Ys Book I&II on turbocd

all the Turbo/PCE CD ones are great and then there's an alternate 4 on SNES and then 5 also on SNES

[languid pagoda]

4 and 5 are Japan only, right? So I'll have to grab a fan translation for that.

[hoary quail]

Think so. The 4 translation really is impressive. No idea how such things are done, but VO and all

[mellow crane]

I'd play 3 on Genesis for a smoother gameplay experience along with good music personally.

[languid pagoda]

Studying wikipedia I found out there are 2 different Ys 4 🤯

Is one considered to be the "true" ys4?

[mellow crane]

The PCE one

Actually, the most recent remake is canon

Memories of Celceta

Which is essentially a remake of 4 on the PCE

[hoary quail]

If you do enjoy the old ones, playing chronologically is fun due to these sorts of changes. Generally I think any remake becomes new "canon" but seeing the really obvious nods and changes since old versions like PCE is great. They do seem to care about the little details

[languid pagoda]

I never played an ys, but I enjoy the orginal versions of ff more than the pixel remasters and in general have a thing for old versions. So I'd start with the pce versions I guess. Remakes can be fun, but never replace originals imo.

[mellow crane]

Ys 8 is great if you want to play a modern one.

Just avoid Switch version if you can. Performance sucks

[languid pagoda]

Thanks for the heads up. It's always a shame when the switch version sucks, I like the flexibility of the system.

[limpid thicket]

Hi, i have some doubts about modeline core

It's correct 270x231 with 60.1hz?

I believed pcengine runs on 256 with 59.82hz

I see on rtype, another vce clock at 59.82hz for 3xx modeline. Just thinking if vce flexible clock it's implemented

[mellow crane]

Yeah and I'm ok with the limitations when there's no choice. But thankfully Ys 8 is available in more places.

[solar fjord]

Anyone agree that the Raw RGB setting makes the TG16/PCE look so good?

🙂

Just finished fully assembling my MiSTer, and the Raw RGB looks better than Original on TG16 core

[little prairie]

Try Bonks adventure as an example. It is so saturated his skin looks reddish using raw RGB. There is a reason why original is the default. It is the most accurate compared to the original console. Definitely try it with more games.

[solar fjord]

I see, ok

I need to experiment then

[plucky python]

@limpid thicket Doesn’t seem like my LG CX always shows this though. Not sure why. Maybe vsync_adjust=2 is causing it.

Ignore the light reflection on the top-left 😬

[limpid thicket]

@plucky python you are right, it's ok here as well

[stiff lotus]

You’ve got some video corruption on the top left

[random bloom]

PCE core doesn't seem to look in the cifs mount if it exists, expected behaviour?

[placid locust]

You're folder probably isn't named correctly.

[random bloom]

Yep, that was it, thank you.

[stiff lotus]

[stiff lotus]

Anyone play the Tengai Makyou: Ziria translation? If so, how is it?

[grand moss]

I'm in the process of playing it. Do you like Dragon Quest 1 ?

[stiff lotus]

I do

[grand moss]

It's very much a 1988/89 game mechanic, but the graphics and story are a step up from that

Not a huge step up though

But the translation itself is good

and the English text looks a lot better than the original Japanese, due to the way the translation changed the print function to variable-width font

[stiff lotus]

Nice!

[mellow crane]

Such an exciting release. I'm hopeful we'll see more PCE RPGs translated.

[grand moss]

Same here

[plucky python]

I have been playing it very casually...just grinding for the most part. I like it. Definitely a DQ1 vibe.

[regal valley]

so turns out there was a Rabio Lepus plush

its way too expensive tho (seen at auction for 60,000 yen)

[grand moss]

huh, cute. But I think that game/character was also in arcades, and maybe even other console ports.
Still, it's a memorable game on PC Engine at least

[true iris]

I have that rabio lepus plush. Bought it years ago. Still wrapped in plastic.

[grand moss]

It would seem that you're getting rich then

[regal valley]

I got one of these... maybe it runs 8 games😅

@grand moss I dont suppose it can work as a classic Mac mouse, its a different protocol I think?

[grand moss]

Very Different from a Mac mouse. There are several PC Engine game that can use it... maybe even a dozen

[regal valley]

I saw some of the games have translations, shall try that out

[regal valley]

I wonder if there is a way to put several Hucard games on CD, to make a burnable multicart?

[regal valley]

some of the Hyper Catalogue CDs seem to have a full version of Nectaris, at least

[grand moss]

Lemmings for example doesn't need a translation. But beware - the buttons probably aren't used the way you have come to expect. Don't ask me why.

[grand moss]

In theory it should be possible, but I haven't seen one with more than a couple.

[true iris]

Like so much of my stuff, there are high price tags and few buyers. I'm not getting rich, except theoretically. =/

[grand moss]

yeah I get it

Hey, Merry Christmas (already the actual day in Aus)

[regal valley]

Merry Christmas!

https://aetherbyte.com/aetherbyte-santatlantean_for_pc-engine_and_turbografx-16.html

[hoary quail]

Merry Christmas. Just got your SNAC design dshadoff in the post, now to find an old used controller. Never did have original hardware.

Searching I'd seen good opinions on the Shuttle Pad so that's the current plan

[grand moss]

Merry Christmas !

[wooden pasture]

Thanks for this! I mainly played the shmups of the pc but def lots of games here i never heard of! Oh and this triggered me to have a look at your mods and wow, gradius 2 is extremely good. (i do like my electric guitars 😄 )

[crisp elk]

I just got a Reflex adapter + PC Engine controller adapter. What are some recommendations for PC Engine game pads (not joysticks)?

[upbeat lintel]

For the most part, the standard 2 button pads are all the same with only cosmetic differences. Some early white ones don't have turbo switches, but turbo doesn't work with Adapt.

[crisp elk]

I'm considering a 3 button pad since the 3rd button can be an action button in some games

[regal valley]

the turbo switches are part of the experience. some games use them better than others

the Avenue Pad 3 is a solid choice, you can customize what the 3rd button does (even turn it off)

[crisp elk]

Yea I may just get an Avenue Pad 3

[upbeat lintel]

Hori Fighting Commander is my favorite 6/2 button control. Feels like a SNES.

[crisp elk]

@upbeat lintel yea I considered the Hori Fighting Commander but the Reflex adapter doesn't support 6-button games (but it does support 3-button games). It is really expensive though and I prefer an OEM PC Engine controller I have a different controller for NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Saturn and PSX along with a Reflex adapter for each

[stiff lotus]

Not sure if this helps but @restive wren sells a PC Engine adapter that supports turbo - https://misteraddons.com/products/snac-pc-engine

[crisp elk]

@stiff lotus oh OK now if it also supports 3-button and 6-button games then I am in for one of those

[stiff lotus]

I think so! Says it works with all known original controller hardware.

[restive wren]

Reflex Adapt supports 6 button pads. I just used one the other day.

It’s turbo that requires the special PCE SNAC for 100% accuracy. Everything else is close but not perfect. The games themselves need direct communication with the controllers which isn’t possible over USB.

[stiff lotus]

Thank you for the explanation!

[crisp elk]

@restive wren thank you for explaining. I may just get the SNAC adapter for Turbo then since it plugs right into the user port

[restive wren]

@grand moss designed the PCE SNAC adapter and it works great for everything.

[dapper bobcat]

While we're on this subject, I have an original TG-16 2-button pad, just picked up a Hori Fighting Commander 6-button pad, have Porkchops Reflex Adapt and dshadoff's PCE Snac adapter. My question, having never owned or used one, is there any reason to pick up the Avenue Pad 3-button controller? I assume the Hori will work with any 3-button compatible game, correct?

[crisp elk]

@dapper bobcat that's a good question since I considered the Reflex adapter and the SNAC. Since the SNAC adapter supports turbo, I would get the SNAC adapter + Avenue 3 pad since I don't care for SF2 on PC Engine. Now I am wondering if I get a Hori Fighting Commander, can I assing 3 of it's buttons to button I/II/II, and then the other buttons to turbo I/II/III since the turbo switches don't work with the Reflex adapter?

[hoary quail]

There's a controller mode that helps with turbo specifically (thanks dshadoff for adding a little note to the GitHub after my confusion some days ago);
"For 2-button 'turbo' joypad (sync'd as in original system), turbo fire is provided by alternate buttons : A, B (normal), X, Y (turbo 1 level), and L, R (turbo 2 level)"

So for the controllers with I/II/III, what you proposed would be possible, but only for I/II buttons it seems. Would you want it on III too?

[grand moss]

The 3-button pad doesn't add an input; it only makes the 'run' or 'select' more convenient for games that use RUN or Select in that way (i.e. Valis III, Forgotten Worlds, etc.). I never actually used a 3-button controller, and my life does not feel incomplete.
The Hori Fighting Commander 6-button for PC Engine is a really good 2 and 6 button controller. But it doesn't relocate RUN/Select to any of the regular buttons

[grand moss]

"Assigning" buttons was never possible before they put microcontrollers into those subsystems, some time after the year 2000. Don't expect to see that function on any peripherals from this console generation or the one that followed.

[crisp elk]

@grand moss OK good to know. Since I can't assign alternate buttons on this core to a 6-button pad, I will get a SNAC + Avenue 3 pad

[dapper bobcat]

Good info, thank you!

[stiff lotus]

Do any PC Engine games benefit from a 6 button controller? I guess besides street fighter.

[grand moss]

SF2 is the only HuCard. But the following CD games support 6-button in some way:

Princess Maker 2
Ys IV
Advanced Variable Geo
Battlefield '94 in Tokyo Dome
Emerald Dragon
Fire Pro Jyoshi - Dome Choujyo Taisen
Flash Hiders
Garou Densetsu II - Aratanaru Tatakai
Garou Densetsu Special
Kakutou Haou Densetsu Algunos
Linda Cube
Mahojng Sword Princess Quest Gaiden
Martial Champions
Ryuuko no Ken
Sotsugyou II - Neo Generation
Super Real Mahjong P II - P III Custom
Super Real Mahjong P V Custom
Tengai Makyo - Kabuki Itouryodan
World Heroes 2```

None of them require 6-button

[upbeat lintel]

I got about 90% through Ys IV in 2 button mode before I learned it supported 6 button.

[hoary quail]

100% with 2 button, didn't feel like I missed anything. Should check what the extra buttons do... item swap?

[stiff lotus]

Thank you! I guess I won’t be missing out if I don’t use it then, like the Genesis 6 button pad.

[regal valley]

you forgot Strip Fighter 2 🤣

(not that we are missing anything by forgetting it, its a kusoge)

and technically so does Adventure Island... turning on 6 button mode triggers a level skip cheat

(which I found by accident)

[stiff lotus]

I enjoy using the 8BitDo’s TG16 controller. The hardwired turbo buttons are great.

[languid pagoda]

The bt one? Those turbo buttons aren't hard wired afaik, you can change the input mode and use them as extra buttons. ☝️

[stiff lotus]

oh nice, thanks for the info!

[crisp elk]

@stiff lotusI have this but got a Reflex adapter and I wanna get a real PC Engine controller. I may settle on an Avenue 3 pad since I am not convinced that I would ever need a 6-button pad

[stiff lotus]

That’s great, I have the same exact controller and I love it.

[slim yew]

The street fighter port for pc engine is incredibly impressive. Sure, you can play the original arcade version on the mister, but having the option to play through the port is always nice.

[stiff lotus]

Yeah, I’m a fan of a lot of console ports myself. Even a few that are objectively inferior. I grew up with them and they have that specific look+sound that I’m nostalgic for.

[crisp elk]

I'm probably gonna get an Avenue 3 pad and part with this one

[stiff lotus]

Ohhh what’s that?

[regal valley]

3 button controller

I have a few,I like it

it maps the 3rd button to Select or Run, and some games make use of that

I just got an extension cord to try it with my Duo (works fine on MiSTer with SNAC or Bliss)

[weak ivy]

Yeah that's nice. So you don't have to press start/run in the awkward middle of the controller.

[true iris]

The avenue 3 pad is huge and awkward, the dpad is stiff and feels like it has too many sharp edges. Not enough games make it worthwhile either. I never liked it. The hori 6 is sublime. Basically the perfect 2D pad.

The 6 button sold with the duo RX (same as the PCFX) is also a great pad, but it takes a bit of getting used to.

[clever bloom]

Does anyone know if the 5 player multitap is planned to be supported with snac? I have the USB style snac adapter which after filling about with different cable lengths works lovely but would love to have the multitap in there aswell

[regal valley]

its serial so it should work?

[grand moss]

SNAC, by definition, already has support for peripherals like this, because it is logically equivalent to the original port.
However, electrically, the signal transition time on the 'normal' SNAC circuitry is not fast enough for a lot of uses. I had designed a different circuit to support PC Engine/TurboGrafx signalling, but it is specific to that core and is not to be used with other cores.

[crisp elk]

How long is the cable for the Hori Fighting commander?

[plucky python]

@grand moss Quick question for you. I am using the 240p test suite 1.12 for Super CD-ROM^2 with mister.ini set to direct_video=1 for the RetroTink4K external scaler. I am using the test build for mister and the PC Engine core with DV1 support. I am on the latest RT4K firmware. I noticed that the grid tests show an extra line or two of black/blank at the bottom. Also, the 512x240 grid is not centered. Is this by design? (as-in native to the way the console outputs)

Also, can you explain the MiSTer OSD showing two resolutions? I thought one was for what the console core is outputting (the top resolution) and the other was for what is being packaged for HDMI (the bottom resolution). If that is the case, then the bottom resolution is possibly cutting off 2 lines (242 vs 240)?

[grand moss]

I don't have the RetroTink4K scaler, and don't know what this "DV1 support" is that you're talking about. I am not clear whether the latest RetroTink4K firmware includes the fixes discussed in here ( https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/issues/808 ) - it sounded like those would be coming out in a week or two.
I also don't know whether you are using the special-build of the TG16 core that Sorgelig made for the purposes of that discussion (it is not the public release version).

Having said all this, assuming that you have "Overscan" set to "Visible", the console should be outputting the correct number of lines, with the correct alignment if you are driving VGA. This much has been previously tested - but I'm always listening for regressions. If you are able to validate this against an original console and show that it isn't, there might be something to investigate.

The HDMI direct output is generated by the framework, and if there is a discrepancy between the VGA output and HDMI Direct, that is something that Sorgelig or some other developer might be able to help out with.... but it could just as easily be the Tink4K or the profile you are using on it.

When you say "DV1 support", are you somehow abbreviating "direct_video=1", and talking about what was discussed in that long issue thread ?

You might actually want to do a side-by-side between original hardware and RetroTink, using "Screen Dimension Tool" from Chris Covell, which can be found on this page: https://www.chrismcovell.com/creations.html

[plucky python]

My apologies for not being clear. DV1 is what the Retrotink dev calls direct_video=1 support. I am using the special mister build and the special PC Engine core build that support DV1. I only use HDMI and unfortunately I do not have original hardware. All the grids looks correct except for the 512x240 which is not centered. Just wasn’t sure of this was by design. I will see if someone on the Retrotink Discord can test as well. 😊

[grand moss]

I haven't played - on original hardware - with a version of 240 that does a 512 grid.... let me see if I can try that out on TurboEverdrive

[grand moss]

OK, on an original console, the 512 grid is centered, roughly the same as the 256 grid is.
There is however, some additional vieable area possible, depending on how the video display controller registers are set. I think I've seen it go as high as 540 or so.
MiSTer's HDMI output is also centered (if it goes through the scaler)

Also, I just tried the Y/C core going to my composite CRT.... the 256- and 512-wide grids are centered (same as generated by regular machine)

The 320 might be shifted a bit left on MiSTer though...

(a few pix)

So, I would say at this point that it's the Tink4K profile for 512 on MiSTer PC Engine core

I would actually question whether the profile for 512pix on regular console has actually been tuned (not that many games actually use 512)

[plucky python]

Thank you!!! I will make a post on the RT4K Discord in a bit. Do you know of an example game that uses that resolution? I would be curious if the game was not centered.

[grand moss]

I can't think of one at the moment.

But making sure that the capability works shouldn't be dependent on that. The number of games which have 512 pix is really more of a measure of priority/impact.

[olive ferry]

I did a test today, connected HDMI to "hdmi to vga adapter" (video_mode=rgb), and then output vga to the led monitor. After entering the game core, the picture is not in the center.
Instead, use (direct_video=1), and the picture Still not in the center, is it related to (vscale_mode), or does it require other settings?

[grand moss]

It is possible that the right edge of display may stop early - although this area would be well beyond the bezel of a regular CRT of that era. I recall seeing somewhere around 544 pixels as "possible to generate", but this is more than "possible to see on CRT".
This resolution is not commonly used on PC Engine, and the key point about whether it is "centered" would be for situations where split-resolution games have one resolution on the top of the screen and this resolution on the bottom of the screen - and ensure that they align properly. I can't think of any games that do this at the moment, but if you find one and those areas don't align properly, please let me know.

[regal valley]

I found about the existence of the "Develo box" in a PC Engine Fan cover disk CD

I wonder if there's any interesting homebrew from back then?

the doggy game on the CD is simple but cute at least

[stiff lotus]

https://github.com/dshadoff/PCE_ReDevelo 👀

[regal valley]

nice to see it preserved and modernized!

[dapper bobcat]

Hmm, need an MSX SNAC adapter. Then you could do: MiSTer 1 running pc-engine core -> snac -> develo box -> snac MiSTer2 running MSX core lol

[regal valley]

wonder if thats easier than using an emulator + flashcart... but maybe it gives you direct feedback on what real hardware would do

[regal valley]

does anybody have the PCEWorks collection? Does the back of the Hucards mention PCEWorks clearly or is it trying to pass for the originals?

[upbeat lintel]

I have their SuperGrafx cartridges. They totally make the PCEWorks logo obvious. (on the back of the cartridge)

[thorny pelican]

They didn't always. Their earliest effort was trying to pass off repros of Sapphire as "new old stock" iirc.

[upbeat lintel]

Yikes. That's no good.

[grand moss]

So, I was wondering whether anything changed on the RT4K side - I saw that a new firmware came out today with auto-crop which might solve your issue.

Over here, I did a couple of tests to check alignment between resolution modes on real hardware versus MiSTer

The first (only ?) piece of software I could find that does a split-resolution including 512pix mode is homebrew:
https://www.chrismcovell.com/splitres.html

I ran this on original hardware, MiSTer through HDMI, and MiSTer using Y/C composite output

I used the vertical lines to check relative alignment between resolution modes, and found:

1. there is no difference in alignment between MiSTer composite and MiSTer Y/C
2. MiSTer Y/C vertical lines appear a bit different from original hardware, and appear diffuse when taking photos
3. There are minor - and not material - differences in alignment between original heard and MiSTer, when judging vertical bar alignment on these different resolutions

First, here is the MiSTer, composite versus HDMI:

Completely different monitors. For comparison, check the vertical bars right at the left edge of the text

Since the composite is so hard to see (and I had to adjust brightness and contrast in order to get it even this clear), I will compare original hardware against MiSTer HDMI.... now that we can see that MiSTer HDMI and MiSTer Y/C have the same alignment

In these two photos, I've put a red line around alignment of a particular line, and how one resolution mode matches with the next

You can see that the interface between 512pix and 352 pix is exact on composite, but appears roughly 2 pix offset on MiSTer. I'll have to look into this one day. But I'm certainly not concerned about a discrepancy of this size

The interface between 352 and 256 seems even smaller - perhaps 1 pix

It might be that an oscilloscope trace may need to be taken, to accurately measure time from HSYNC pulse to start of data on both MiSTer and orig hardware for comparison.

[regal valley]

@grand moss which dev toolchain would you recommend for dabbling in PCE dev?

I see many versions of HuC, etc

[grand moss]

If you're comfortable in assembler, I recommend that over C

[regal valley]

I can certainly try

[grand moss]

Depends what you want to build anyway

I created a github organization a short time ago, and talked with several of the key people making tools and publishing information, and asked them to move everything to the organization (as I was also doing), here:

https://github.com/orgs/pce-devel/repositories

It's meant to a be a one-stop shop, but it's also intended to be fault-tolerant, in case something should happen to any of us, as did last year to Bt Garner.

So, no single-point-of-failure

If you're just starting out, use HuC from there... PCEAS (the assembler) is included

'elmer' has been adding a ton of examples as well

[regal valley]

thanks - yes this certainly helps

I don't have a specific goal - maybe write a litte game for fun; but I don't know what I can pull off yet if I do it in assembly

done some 80x86 asm years ago; nothing fancy other than some basic graphics routines for DOS mode 13h

[plucky python]

Thanks @grand moss !! I really appreciate you taking the time to research this. I know it might seem like a silly thing to fixate on by most. I just find it odd that all the grid tests look normal to me except for the 512 mode. I have noticed the Mega Drive has a similar issue (not as noticeable) in its 320 mode. Latest RT4K firmware still shows the same behavior and that camp thinks it’s a core issue. I will post my screenshot again. Just to reiterate, I am using HDMI (no analog in my chain and nothing abnormal like switchers or AV receivers in the path).

[stiff lotus]

please repost that in #general-banter and ask people to critique your CRTs geometry

[plucky python]

This is OLED…forgot to mention.

[stiff lotus]

I know, I just want to see people think it’s actually a CRT and you somehow stumbled onto the holy grail of picture geometry lol

[plucky python]

😁

[grand moss]

So, my thinking is this - although it would need to be borne out by timing analysis (which I won't do immediately):

• HSYNC pulse causes the scanline to retrace
• this is a non-zero amount of time
• The Video controller has a "HDS" parameter to allow for this and for stabilization and left overscan
• The Video controller then starts sending data, to the amount of the "HDW" register.

First, I don't know who (if anybody) is modelling the retrace time accurately. If HDS is set so low that it doesn't fully accommodate this timing, then the initial portion of HDW output will not even be on the scanline (as it would be part of the retrace and stabilization period)

Secondly, The initial portion of HDW could well be off-screen, for which some sort of "bezel crop" should be instated on the CRT emulator

Thirdly, because the transmission of scanline output does continue past the right bezel of most CRTs' capability, this cropping should also be instated....

Fourthly, the core may or may not be showing the full scanline output - the right edge might need to be extended, although that portion wouldn't be visible, just as the left portion isn't

And Finally, 240P suite took some numbers that appear appropriate on the CRT. You would probably feel better if HDS was one or two squares longer, and the width was shorter.. but that's not how the author wrote it

So in summary, I don't consider this a "bug" per se, but I do consider this something of a curiosity that I would like to investigate, though the amount of time required for the investigation versus the value of the data retrieved is pretty low. There are several higher-priority investigations to do first (especially related to CDROM/SCSI controller)

[plucky python]

Agreed …this is low priority, yet interesting. Thank you again and happy to test what I can. I will be the first to admit I am no where near educated on this stuff like most of you all are, but I enjoy learning as much as I can.

[dark osprey]

how good is Soldier Blade tho

[regal valley]

its great

[dark osprey]

it sure is

[crisp elk]

Is this a good controller?

Or this? Trying to decide on which controller since I have the Reflex adapter (and I know turbo won't work)

[languid geyser]

I heard the avenue 3 is pretty great since you can use that 3rd button as run/select when games use them

[regal valley]

I have both, the 2nd one (Avenue 3) is more useful for some games

the 1st one is a nice controller but it's just a new shape over the original one

[spark osprey]

Was playing Sapphire on the TG-CD core yesterday and was getting corrupted graphics in the intro and in-game. Interestingly, I can’t reproduce the issue today. I’m using CHD…maybe it was just a fluke, but I do wonder what might have caused it 🤔

I was switching cores a lot more yesterday, so maybe that had something to do with it

[proven portal]

Yeah so if you switch cores via the cores menu then that could happen

Basically the sdram doesn’t get flushed

[spark osprey]

ahh so it’s that issue, I see. I thought it had been “fixed” quite a while back. It must have mostly fixed it, because I do remember that issue occurring much more frequently a few years ago compared to now where I almost never see it

[crisp elk]

How do you have your PCE pad connected to your MiSTer?

[regal valley]

Blisster

and SNAC

[crisp elk]

Can you navigate the MiSTer menu with that?

[regal valley]

yes, Blisster (and similar e.g. their GamerPro adapter) is a USB adapter

but with SNAC you can't use the menu

[pseudo rivet]

fwiw, the TG16 USB pad from the TG16 Mini works great ;p

'course that'd mean having a TG16 mini.. which had a retail life of like 1.5 hours

[regal valley]

the Mini is nice and i like their menu... but I can't get over the lack of options vs. MiSTer and response feels a bit off

(yes I've become a lag snob)

[stiff lotus]

I love the TG16 Mini but yeah I just game on the MiSTer. Shame no one ended up hacking it.

[crisp elk]

I considered using this for PC Engine Duo core wired but I got a Reflex adapter recently and I may wanna use that + Avenue 3 pad

[stiff lotus]

I bought that for the TG16 Mini and use it on my MiSTer now. I enjoy it a lot for the 8-bit systems since the top two buttons are hardwired as turbo.

[pseudo rivet]

Yeah no one is suggesting the mini consoles would come anywhere close to a MiSTer... or original consoles for that matter of course.

although.. sometimes I just end up going to them or another emulation route just so I can use save states

which I dont get on my original consoles, Analogue Pocket, or MiSTer despite them playing the games better ;p

[stiff lotus]

The visual aesthetics and menu interfaces are a big reason why I love the mini consoles. It may not be perfect emulation and they have input lag but for most people they’re good enough. They certainly were for me before I got a MiSTer.

[pseudo rivet]

what i love is that they're mini models, and official ones at that 🙂

but yeah going back to the TG16 usb pad, I can't tell the difference between that and the real deal.. granted it's been ages

but, the turbo switches seem pretty darn accurate as far as how I remember it'd spink Bonk in the air for example, at settings 1 & 2

[left merlin]

Wha? You can change the turbo levels on the 8bitdo like the original controllers? 🤯

[thorny pelican]

#controllers message

You can do a lot with that controller. 4 button mode is fun for creating custom button combos.

[covert sinew]

My Mini is my way of legit owning all those great games 🙂 it’s still in the box since have Mr

Of course I also have OG Duo

[stiff lotus]

I don’t and I think that’s awesome that you do. The TG16-Mini was my first deep dive exploration into the software library. Dude it’s such a cool console!

[regal valley]

I love the PC Engine. I recently completed my collection of all Japanese game hucards (loose) and been trying them all

I havent gone after the CDs but there's also great stuff there

[stiff lotus]

Holy shit, @regal valley is the man spoken in legends!

[regal valley]

I need to take pics but been too busy playing 😅

[pseudo rivet]

I haven't bought a TG16 game since...ever since

[regal valley]

these were the harder to get... all are great games, I encourage all to play them however they can (Mini, emulator, MiSTer, everdrive...)

[stiff lotus]

Magical Chase isn’t good

It’s great!!

[pseudo rivet]

I always hear that, but I’ve never tried it for some reason

I don’t recall ever seeing it for sale either

[dark osprey]

I've never tried it either, that can change the next time I get to sit down in front of my MiSTer I guess

[thorny pelican]

It's really fun! Weird regional graphic differences. The first stage especially.

[hoary quail]

Finally got PC Engine Shuttle controller in today's post, feels nice. First time even seeing any PCE hardware IRL, so thank you very much @grand moss for the SNAC design with turbo that inspired my purchase. Working great. I've got a lot of games to try out!

[plucky python]

Why did NEC use "HE SYSTEM" (Hudson Entertainment System?) and "HuCARD" (Hudson Card?) branding on the PC Engine? Pretty sure this branding was used on some of the TurboGrafx-16 hardware as well. Just always seemed weird/confusing to me from a marketing perspective. I think Hudson Entertainment was the original designer of the system right?

[grand moss]

Yes, Hudson created the hardware and shopped it out to NEC, who built it and sold it. History tells us that they would have flubbed it without Hudson

[plucky python]

So was it technically known as the NEC PC Engine Hudson Entertainment System?

Oh wait..I think I understand now. It is the Hudson Entertainment System, but as you said, NEC built it for Hudson and called it the "PC Engine" in Japan and the "TurboGrafx" elsewhere.

I am assuming Hudson designed the successors which NEC built and named as "SuperGrafx" and "PC-FX" as well? I wonder what the internal names were from Hudson? Super HES? 😄

[grand moss]

I'm not sure how much input Hudson had into the PC-FX. It apparently had a different CPU when the project started, and it was changed to a NEC CPU at some point. There could have been some strain on the relationship

But actually, aside from the SuperGrafx, all the other PC Engine machiens were just respins of the original PC Engine and CDROM

Even the SuperGrafx was the same chips, but one more video processor

[grand moss]

And the PC Engine was likely known as the "Hudson Entertainment System" before they pertnered in with NEC, and insisted that various components have HES on them and others HuCard.

[dark osprey]

Can confirm this game is pretty fun, and not too hard what with how it lets you continue with your powerups 😄

[crisp elk]

How does that PC Engine Shuttle controller feel? Is the d-pad not to stiff? I like that it is larger and wide.

@dark osprey nice PVM!

[dark osprey]

It needs some work, unfortunately, developed some slight convergence issues at the edges since I last moved it

[hoary quail]

Never seen nevermind held any other PCE stuff IRL, so limited opinion.
Feels nice to hold for me, not got the largest hands.
Find myself slightly holding Dpad side not rigidly in like a claw grip as if it had shoulder buttons to hit. I go off a little, and the sloping edges around the bottom make that more comfy than if I tried to do similar with say an NES controller.
Dpad is what it is I imagine. Seems a good condition I think. Not necessarily stiff. Eh, kinda mushy even at times? Less easy to go left -> down -> left and such compared to the M30 I have. Probably just takes getting used to. Still felt fine. Only played so far Bonk, Legendary Axe and Ys. Only even thought about the Dpad at first roaming in Ys, then I sort of forgot about it

[abstract cradle]

CREST OF WOLF (JP) does not seem to be working properly. How is it in your environment?

[regal valley]

@grand moss by any chance would you know where I can find any develo box programs? or pdfs of the books/mags about it?

I found the hardware box at a nice price and got one

[olive ferry]

Has the controller been switched to 6 buttons?

[grand moss]

Do you have MSX or PC-98 machine ?

[abstract cradle]

Yes, I changed it to 2 buttons and it worked fine when I tried it! Thanks!

[regal valley]

I have access to both (not mine but I can use them)

friend of mine collects Japanese computers

[grand moss]

The original connections are meant for those computers, not a Western PC... The develo box requires both a COM port and a parallel printer port (for the PC98), or the user port (for a MSX). The COM and LPT ports on the PC-98 are at different I/O ports on PC-98 than in the west, so if you're using the develo box, it kind of needs Japanese host computers

[regal valley]

yep

I just need the cables - we have a few MSX2 and at least one PC98

[olive ferry]

PCEngine's 6-button controller can only be used in special games. If used in 2-button games, the direction will automatically go up and down.

[stiff lotus]

Damn, Far East of Eden: Ziria is fun as hell. This must’ve been such a mind boggingly massive improvement in ‘89, when it came out. It released before FF3 and DQIV and features animated cutscenes, voice acting, gorgeous (for the time) artwork and backgrounds too. It’s definitely an 8-bit style RPG but it has such nice presentation.

I can’t get diagonal walking to work though.

[stiff lotus]

Damn I love the MiSTer

[left merlin]

I played Ys I&II way back then and it was mind blowing how much the gaming world changed just with CD audio, cut scenes, voices, etc. Had to convince my friends to try it cuz they thought the graphics were crap.

[regal valley]

I like it but it gets repetitive. Luckily I just unlocked the 2nd character

the battle music is a crime though. I guess the guy was busy designing the game instead!

[night breach]

Hi everyone - anyone know what this “split-screen” game is? It apparently is not working properly. Not sure if I am just shooting from the hip and not realizing this is some in-Dev game

[grand moss]

I don't recognize it from those pictures. Got a name ? (I mean, you must have a ROM or CDROM files - what were they named when you got them ?)

Also what does "apparently not working properly" mean ?

[night breach]

Yeah I’m just a messenger, trying to get the title and what his exact issue is. His first words was “PCE core” is whack -_-

He said it is suppose to be 4 screens split or something

[grand moss]

No, there are no 4-split screen games

[night breach]

Yeah that’s exactly what I thought.

[grand moss]

That looks like Youkai Douchuuki which doesn't work properly if you are using 6-button controllers or if multi-tap is enabled.

Plus, there's a translation for it:
https://www.romhacking.net/translations/3607/

[night breach]

Ahh looks very close.

Maybe his definition of “split screen” is the status bars. I’m gonna call him an idiot….

[grand moss]

hahahah. Be my guest.

[night breach]

But still gonna try to get his exact issue

[grand moss]

But anyway, if you insert cards in a specifc wrong way on original equipment, there is a weird video mode that shows 4 mini-screens in the corners, but they're all the same and unreadable

[naive stump]

Being the inbetween for issues on the mister is always fun

[grand moss]

Pretty hard to recreate, and it's bad in any case

yeah, even when you're not, and all that is said "something's not working properly"

[night breach]

Yeah he called it 4-player split screen.. when they appear to be your typical HUD/status screens/ etc

So I’m gonna just leave it at that for now. Thank you for putting up with me 😅

[stiff lotus]

PCE core is perfection incarnate

[grand moss]

there are still some minor things, but nothing to interfere with gameplay in any serious way.

[regal valley]

yep that's Youkai Douchuuki but the colors look weird

[night breach]

Ok (just a messenger again) so there are apparently 3 games that have different screen modes (ie. high resolution 320 mode?) that can be activated by a code:

1. Youkai Douchuuki
2. Sprigan
3. Honey in the Sky

And apparently the PCE core can’t display them properly. Has anyone heard of this?

https://necretro.org/Youkai_Douchuuki/Hidden_content

Or perhaps it only works in analog mode, or requires some mode one setting to switch resolutions properly.

[stiff lotus]

weird

[stiff lotus]

@grand moss I can confirm what was posted above. I tried out the Honey in the Sky code with the English patch.

Code is “SPECIALSCREENMODE”

Supposed to look like this on a 512x240 display:

Looks like they fixed it for the Analogue Pocket port of the MiSTer core - https://github.com/agg23/openfpga-pcengine/issues/8

What an absolutely bizarre hidden feature. Why and how would you use it?

[night breach]

I think it was done for “shits and giggles”. Never intended to be used.

But resolution change stuff was more frequent during the 32-bit era (ie. Chrono Cross, noctourne of the midnight, etc.)

There have been speculation on YouTube videos, forums, etc. about using the 320 res mode in SHMUPS to be closer to TATE mode arcade gameplay.

[stiff lotus]

I see, thank you for the explanation!

[night breach]

Don’t take my word for it of course 😅. I think the developers loved experimenting during those times

[grand moss]

Yeah, so I said something above about this - "But anyway, if you insert cards in a specifc wrong way on original equipment, there is a weird video mode that shows 4 mini-screens in the corners, but they're all the same and unreadable"

what is happening here is that the video processor is being hit with some out-of-spec values that make it misbehave in a particular way

It's not a resolution thing; it's a mismatch between resolution, virtual mapsize, and screen aperture.

[stiff lotus]

ohhhh

[grand moss]

Maybe sometime this week I'll take a look on Mednafen to see what values it sticks in the VDC registers.

It's not a bug that's worth fixing, but I sometimes think about the edge cases on the VDC and how many of them are working versus not working.

[stiff lotus]

why would they include this as a password? Just for fun?

[grand moss]

They programmed some mistake in the VDC registers, and the 4-screen thing happened and then they thought it looked cool. But unplayable. So they hid it

Incidentally, about a dozen of those passwords were never found until 2021

They were stuck in the game, then never advertised, and then forgotten.

Some weird Japanese hacker guys did exactly what I would have done, and embarked on a journey to hack the passwords

[stiff lotus]

hahaha

I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t care if the core supports it. Seems like a useless “feature” lol.

[grand moss]

Yeah, sometimes people search for differences. There are other more important (yet still meaningless to game-playing) fixes to make in the video display controller

Like this affects appearance in the case that the invalid values are sent to the video registers, but it wouldn't affect how the game acts. I know a couple of things where timing is off by a few cycles, and could affect how a game acts, although no known games fall into that category.

[granite sinew]

https://vxtwitter.com/turboxray/status/1759629215056732206?s=20

I love this example. And that the MiSTer core was the first to express this in the digital domain.

[worldly drum]

snac question

does the multitap worth with this revision?

[signal quarry]

I guess that depends on whether you have any friends.

From memory, the one based on the design by @grand moss works with the multitap.

[abstract cradle]

When I zoom in and out on Dragon and Tiger Fist (JP), the screen flickers. Is there some setting I need to do?

[grand moss]

What game is Dragon and Tiger Fist (JP) ? I've never heard of it, and I own all the games on the system.

Are you talking about "Ryuuko no Ken" which is also known in English as "Art of Fighting" ?

http://www.pcengine.co.uk/HTML_Games/Art_of_Fighting.htm

If so, there is a scaler issue which shows up when resolution changes - but only affects scaled output to HDMI monitors:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/TurboGrafx16_MiSTer/issues/178

[stiff lotus]

Sounds like you own every game but Dragon and Tiger Fist (JP)

[grand moss]

Turns out that's not it. "Ryuuko no Ken" -> Ryuu = Dragon, Ko = Tiger, and Ken = Fist, when you look at the individual kanji characters. This was an anglicization of a Chinese reading of the Japanese original title; that's why it was confusing.

Turns out that "Ryuuko" is an idiom - it isn't literally "dragon and tiger" here, but rather refers to "two mighty rivals"

[stiff lotus]

I can’t keep trolling if you spit interesting facts

[olive ferry]

That's absolutely correct. The word dragon and tiger in Chinese means two opponents of equal strength. You know Japanese, Chinese, and the Japanese transliteration into English very well.

[grand moss]

I know a bit... but it takes work to understand.

[abstract cradle]

Sorry, I meant Ryuko no ken.

[grand moss]

Yes, for that one, if you output to RGB (or composite, etc.), it is fine

Changing resolutions can be difficult for scalers.

[abstract cradle]

We recognized that this is a scale issue due to the HDMI output. Thanks. Sorry to hear that, but it can't be helped.

[grand moss]

Sometimes communicating titles is difficult, because they use a completely different name in different places

Movies are like that too

(Sometimes movies even have different English names in different English-speaking countries)

[regal valley]

The X-Files was originally called "At the frontier of reality" in France

when it got popular they adopted the English name

[left merlin]

In Japan, they often give literal names to movies. It’s peculiar. Like the Pixar movie, Up, was called Old Man Carl’s Flying House, something like that.

And on PCE, Winds of Thunder was called Lords of Thunder in English, sounds cooler.

[languid pagoda]

It's "Akte X" in Germany, which literally translates to "file x" 😄

[regal valley]

to be fair, with that name the fart jokes write themselves

[left merlin]

Broken Winds of Thunder 💨

[regal valley]

"by the team that brought you Toilet Kids"

[night breach]

So here is an interesting video of someone playing with this 4 screen thing. https://youtu.be/-B-_XcS2M8g?si=Hhavle0xyhxE8y8O

Yes meaningless overall, but I see some “haters” using this as a reason to say “FPGA inaccurate and sux0rs rofl”

[grand moss]

Uh-huh. Well, maybe those people should look at more important things.

I suppose that the FPGA is not a perfect recreation of the internals of the 6270. But oh well. Best we've got. Maybe one day sombody will be able to map out the standard cells from the decapped 6270 and then we'll be sure.

In any case, haters are the least persuasive people.

[regal valley]

how is that different in FPGA? is it not working there?

[grand moss]

6260 controls HYNC and VSYNC; 6270 produces the background based on video register values. In this, it seems that they've made the visual aperture of X small enough that it 'wraps' twice, and same for Y. As I recall, TG16 core does this on the Y axis, but I don't think so on the X axis. These are undocumented values, and playing with these registers outside of normal ranges generally makes a TV have a twisted screen that collapses due to loss of sync.

[stiff lotus]

The core is so accurate it fixed a bug with the original hardware that allowed for that.

[thorny pelican]

Folks gotta chill. Like bobby.

[winged isle]

Is this core complete? Running without bugs?

[grand moss]

The PC Engine/TG16 core ?

Yes, it's pretty darn close to perfection.

Every so often, something is noticed as a divergence from original hardware though.

Very rare

[winged isle]

Sweet.

What happened to the Sharpe x68000 core? Has it been abandoned?

[grand moss]

I don't think anybody who can work on it has enough knowledge/information (or vice-versa)

There was a person in Japan (puu) who had been working on it, but it seems like he wanted to start other cores before completing that one (or maybe he was satisfied with how far it got, and stopped)

[stiff lotus]

There were glitches with CDDA playback?

[grand moss]

Are you talking about today's pull request ?

[stiff lotus]

Yeah, sorry for lack of context

[grand moss]

Well, there was one issue known a few years ago, in issue #146 . I put a fix in at that time, and that addressed all the games I was aware of. It turns out that Rayxanber2 still had an issue (I wasn't aware).

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/TurboGrafx16_MiSTer/pull/206

The fix has already been put in

[stiff lotus]

Wow, amazing ear for detail.

Thank you

[grand moss]

This wasn't fixed by me

But I checked that the issue was real

I'll probably go back and improve my previous issue

[stiff lotus]

Wasn’t fixed by you but you’re still following through. So you’re still awesome. 🍻

[grand moss]

Thanks

[placid locust]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-yes-nod-nodding-ofcourse-gif-17105506

[regal valley]

has anybody seen this before? any clue of what's inside

there's a super common Super CDROM2 disk (which this does not seem to be)

saw it on auction but it's a bit pricery for an impulse purchase. Yet if nobody has ever dumped it, might be worth it

[left merlin]

No idea. It just says it's a Hudson sample disc for stores.

[grand moss]

Yeah, I don't recognize the label, but I'm pretty sure the contents would be familiar.

I would assume it's the Super CD 3-in-1 Japanese version, with just a special label printed on the disc

[regal valley]

I found a dump but it's of a PC Engine Fan Catalogue CD, so not sure if it's accurate

the dump is labeled as Super-CD Demo2 - but it seems odd it would have that branding if it's direct from Hudson

[grand moss]

Well, I don't know what to say. Some of the in-store demo discs were abbreviated games (playable demo), and some were the actual game, but with different printing on the disc. Either way, they seem to be popping up with high prices, and don't have any "new" content - just possibly a different revision of existing content.

[regal valley]

true. not worth getting it at the asking price

[jovial jackal]

For y/c composite, do you still set colors: original for more authentic look?

[grand moss]

I don't recall what the choices are named, but I use the one that's not strict RGB (which is probably original)

[jovial jackal]

Ok cool thanks. Original is what I use. I should actually dig out my duo and compare

[grand moss]

Yeah, give it a check. Anybody who has real hardware has noticed that some games don't look right in the RGB of emulators. But anybody who has only played emulators doesn't know what the original games looked like

That's why, back in 2020, we set out to correct the palette

Multiple layers of how it's different, but I won't go into that.

[slim yew]

Worse than just rgb of emulators though. One of the reasons mister doing that work is so great- the mister output is more true to intention than the output I use on my coregrafx

[grand moss]

Not sure I understand what you are trying to convey

On your CoreGrafx, are you using composite output, or did you get a RGB mod ?

[slim yew]

I use rgb output, so I do not get the intended colors.

Therefore, the work done to map the composite colors gives me a better and more developer intended experience than on my actual console

[grand moss]

Gotcha

[regal valley]

its hard for me to unsee the warmer composite palette, so now I play my real PC Engine on composite😅

[olive ferry]

It should only have an RGB color palette, but it is actually displayed as RGB to YUV. I know many admirable brothers have studied this conversion rule and established another accurate output color palette based on this rule.

[grand moss]

Yeah, it's internally tracked as though it's RGB, but at the very least, those values cannot be considered to be on a linear scale (which all emulators do). Internal to the HuC6260, there is a lookup table which has a similar but different decode to YUV which makes the range more viewable (no colors crushed at either bright or dark end), but also uses a more linear luminance scale.

But the composite palette we created also tries to simulate the slight skew introduced by the analog output stage which mixes and amplifies the signal

[regal valley]

that palette, plus boosting the chroma on my CRT makes for some really nice result

[pseudo rivet]

only RF from the TG16 is good enough for me!

[random bloom]

Fwiw, the YC output on the Turbonanza has the correct colour mapping. Looks great.

[stiff lotus]

I don’t get it

Ohhhhhh, it’s the Nintendo logo

[languid pagoda]

It clearly says mister. Can't you read?

[stiff lotus]

no : (

[upbeat lintel]

I need that in a shirt, but nobody I know would get it. They would probably say, “Well, hello, Mister F—- the PGA (Professional Golfers Association)! Not qualify for the tournament?”

[stiff lotus]

Better than my acronym lol

[summer lintel]

That's the problem with all the MiSTer shirts especially if it didn't have the FPGA part

"So you're into.... guys?"

[languid pagoda]

True, when I told my friends how happy my mister makes me they all made fun of me if I don't want to marry him... yes, I do want to marry my mister...

MiSTer body pillows when, @restive wren ?

[summer lintel]

Redbubble has pillows at least lol

[pseudo rivet]

Mister FPGBTQ

[random bloom]

Random Q, anyone know what rating the original PCE fuse is? Need to replace mine.

[grand moss]

Console5 says 1A for PCE; 1.25A for SuperGrafx and TurboGrafx

https://console5.com/store/fuse-1a-250v-glass-with-leads-pc-engine-main-fuse.html

https://console5.com/store/fuse-1-25a-glass-with-leads-tg16-main-fuse.html

[random bloom]

Thank you kindly!

[summer rivet]

Anyone have any “must play” CD game lists?

So far my list is: Rondo of Blood, Bonk 1-3, Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, Star Parodier, Ys 1-4. A short list, but i’m sure there are others

[stiff lotus]

What do you want to play?

[summer rivet]

Really I’m just looking to understand the library. So anything that is considered representative of the library

(But it’s the CD games where I’m not super familiar)

[hasty flicker]

Dynastic Hero

[stiff lotus]

Download 2

Ane-San if you want to play girl Kunio

[naive stump]

Air Zonk

[stiff lotus]

Kaze Kiri for some ninja action

The Far East of Eden translation is super cool

[summer rivet]

Thanks guys 👍🏻

Will check those out

[grand moss]

All bomberman games (HuCard), Ys 1-2 on CD to start.

[summer rivet]

Heh, I was playing Bomberman 93 when I posted the original message 😎

[grand moss]

Lots of good games on the system

Blazing Lazers(aka Gunhed), Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Raiden

Super Darius

Depends what kind of games you like, but PC Engine has a little bit of everything, and a lot of shooters

[left merlin]

Trying to get cheats to work on CD games (I have the cheats downloaded) and I found a post that says you need to have Data Cache off for them to work. Can't find that option. Where would it be? Or is the issues something else?

@faint dagger The CDmage to bin/cue then chdman trick worked. Thanks so much! 😄

[faint dagger]

Neato!

[true iris]

PCE CD: Nexzr is hard to beat. Ai Cho Aniki is a head melting fun time. Monster Lair is a really accurate conversion (especially compared to the MD version, with sprites that were probably drawn from memory, not references).

[stiff lotus]

@summer rivet I'm finally on my PC so here's my list. I haven't played it all but I grabbed what people recommended or in the case of translations, what was available.

JAPAN:

• Ai Chou Aniki
• Ane-san
• Asuka 120% Maxima - Burning Fest. Maxima
• Download 2
• Faussete Amour
• Flash Hiders
• Fray CD - Xak Gaiden
• Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire
• Gradius II - Gofer no Yabou
• Kabuki Ittouryoudan
• Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman 3 - Ikai no Princess
• Kaze Kiri - Ninja Action
• L-Dis
• Mad Stalker - Full Metal Force
• Mugen Senshi Valis - The Legend of a Fantasm Soldier
• Seirei Senshi Spriggan
• Spriggan Mark 2 - Re Terraform Project
• Star Parodier
• Sylphia
• Valis IV - The Fantasm Soldier

PATCHED:

• Castlevania - Rondo of Blood (Translated)
• Dead of the Brain 1 (Translated)
• Far East of Eden - Ziria (Translated)
• Galaxy Fraulein Yuna (Translated)
• Galaxy Fraulein Yuna 2 (Translated)
• Might and Magic (Translated)
• Private Eye Dol (Translated)
• Sorcery Saga I - The Fiery Kindergarten Graduation (Translated)
• Startling Odyssey II (Translated)
• Ys IV - The Dawn of Ys (Translated)

USA:

• Beyond Shadowgate
• Bonk III - Bonk's Big Adventure
• Buster Bros.
• Cosmic Fantasy 2
• Dragon Slayer - The Legend of Heroes
• Dungeon Explorer II
• Exile
• Fantastic Night Dreams - Cotton
• Forgotten Worlds
• Gate of Thunder + Bonk's Adventure + Bonk's Revenge
• Godzilla
• J. B. Harold Murder Club
• Last Alert
• Lords of Thunder
• Splash Lake
• Super Air Zonk - Rockabilly-Paradise
• Valis II
• Valis III
• Ys Book I & II
• Ys III - Wanderers from Ys

I'm sure I have a dud here or there or I'm missing a cool game. Please let me know if that's the case!

[summer rivet]

That’s quite a list - thank you! Will add it to all the other recommendations and take a look 🙂

[grand moss]

I think those are all CD games... There are also a bunch of good HuCards

[stiff lotus]

Yeah, they were specifically looking for CD games. Also I missed "must play" so I dunno if most of those fall into that category, lol.

[grand moss]

OK, it's a good list

[stiff lotus]

Well you're definitly the expert not me. I'm just a tourist going "wow look at all this cool shit" haha

[grand moss]

covers all the bases... sort of depends on preferences which ones in that list are better than others

[summer rivet]

Yeah - I have no shortage of HuCard games, it’s specifically the CD part of the library where I’m less familiar

[jovial jackal]

Bazaru de Gozaru no Game de Gozaru is my fav hidden gem. Translated.

Future Boy Conan is good. Beautiful big size anime cutscenes and songs which is key to many pce CD games.

Fun to just browse games for nice cutscenes and songs

Oh also can't ignore huge genre defining games like Tokimeki Memorial.

[summer rivet]

Oh man, the PC Engine ports of the various arcade games of the day seem so much better than the versions on the other consoles

[grand moss]

Yup, the translation itself wasn't so difficult, but virtually all the text was actually graphics, so they needed to be edited as graphcis (and I'm no artist !)

[grand moss]

Yes, this was a huge part of what interested me in the system back in the day. R-Type was the first one that caught my eye

Super Darius too

[summer rivet]

R-type is insanely good on the PCE

Can’t understand why it wasn’t more popular at the time

(The console, I mean)

[grand moss]

It was, but only in Japan. In the USA, they really didn't push its strengths

[summer rivet]

Was it just too expensive, or poor marketing, or something else?

[grand moss]

bad decisions times 1000

[summer rivet]

Ahh, they SEGA’d it before SEGA

[grand moss]

There was no reason to redesign the console. The artwork on the game covers was terrible. They chose mostly poor games to bring to North America

[grand moss]

Yeah, they were ahead of their time !

[summer rivet]

Such a shame, given the potential

Fantasy Zone is also a great port

[jovial jackal]

It's super lovely translation work. Much appreciated.

[grand moss]

I just realized that my first PC Engine translations were over 20 years ago

You might also like Mottekke Tamago

[jovial jackal]

R-type CD is well worth checking out just for the end of intro cutscenes. Xenomorph talking is hilarious.

There are so so many gems yet to be translated.

[grand moss]

It's true

I'm really impressed with all the stuff that Supper/LIPEMCO is doing too

[jovial jackal]

Yeah totally. Seeing big games like Ziria translated was kind of shocking and gives high hopes.

[grand moss]

Yeah, I never know what they're going to do next, but it's always a beautiful game, and they do a beautiful job.

[jovial jackal]

Top of my wishlist are the rest of tengai makyou games and popful mail

[grand moss]

Yeah, those are top of mine too

I'd say Snatcher, but there's a translated version of that for Genesis (also Popful Mail for Gensis)

[jovial jackal]

Oh yeah snatcher for sure, especially since pretty much all the other versions are translated

[grand moss]

The biggies which one day I hope to play (translated) include Legend of Xanadu, Seiya Monogatari, Tenshi no Uta (both of them), and Cosmic Fantasy 3 and 4a/4b. Cosmic Fantasy may actually be released in English officially on the Switch, but we'll see if that actually happens.

[covert sinew]

Anyone working on those?

[covert sinew]

Off the beaten path, there are some mini game shmups that have been extracted and are really cool: Force Gear, Cycho Rider, Twinbee Returns

You can find them on a certain site that’s into “romance” and CDs

[left merlin]

I love that those have been extracted for solo play 👏

@covert sinew Presuming you’re the one with the same YT name, nice videos 👍

[grand moss]

Xanadu has been a project for many years; the translator wanted to also do a dub because of the amount of spoken language in the cut-scenes, and how important they are to the story. That part of the project has taken a long time.

Seiya Monogatari has been extracted and is looking for a translator (must be experienced because the script is not raw text, but includes a lot of special codes which must remain intact - trigger effects during speech, etc.)

Tenshi no Uta - I think these are also extracted, but at least partially understood.

Translators are usually the missing part

[left merlin]

In my own experience, it’s not just missing translators, but people who are willing to do it and keep at it, that and the person who is coordinating the entire transaction between various people on the project. That’s not a joy to deal with

[grand moss]

Well, in these cases, the hackers are doing the interstitial parts

When you say, " it’s not just missing translators, but people who are willing to do it and keep at it" - of course, that's expected of the translator - to complete the work. Otherwise they're not performing the role.

The hackers in the above cases have been around in that scene for years, and built tools to get to the point of being able to extract. And of course testing is required of every team member. But I can't imagine a person who translates a thing without actually actually play-testing it to re-evaluate context (or that their work doesn't just crash)

[covert sinew]

Haha, not me on YT. I can’t even keep my crappy website updated

[covert sinew]

Wow, I can only imagine the additional challenges. Thanks for the rundown on the various projects

[signal quarry]

There's an English fandub for Ys IV by the way.

[grand moss]

Yes, that one was put together over the course of a few years too

[regal valley]

I love Wizardry I for the PC Engine. has its own unique soundtrack (usually they are based off the NES OST)

Riot Zone / Crest of Wolf is also interesting to play (Final Fight clone)

[signal quarry]

I didn't get to spend much time on it, but my first impressions are that it is quite charming.

I believe it was mentioned that they were going for a 'Working Designs' style in their approach.

[granite sinew]

We have the arcade original of that on MiSTer also, Riot City. Somewhat Jank beat em up that can be fun for 2 players for a playthrough. kinda monotonous though lol

[regal valley]

yeah its interesting. it's obviously trying to be FInal Fight but in less good. The music is nice at least

[night breach]

Question: is there such thing as replacement HuCard boards for the original PC engine? Someone gave me a butchered one where I think someone tried to follow some Doujin-dance style regionfree mod

[grand moss]

you're talking about the daughterboard with the scratchpad RAM and the HuCard socket, inside of PC Engine (white) and CoreGrafx machines ?

I don't know of any, but they aren't particularly complex

there are HuCard connectors available, but I don't know if they're a 100% match

https://jt-studios.com/product/38pin-pc-engine-connector/

Maybe cosam has the daughterboard done; they were working on the main board a while ago

https://github.com/Board-Folk/PC-Engine

Seems to be just the main board

[night breach]

Yeah the whole board + the actual HuCard slot with the 38 L-Pins. Thank you for the links will check ‘em out.

[grand moss]

You might want to reach out to the people who did that main board, to see whether they can do a daughterboard (especially one suitable for that newer connector)

It should overall be much simpler than the work that they already did

[true iris]

All that said, how bad was the damage that you can't just fix it, @night breach ?

[night breach]

i mean its definitely fixable, but the time spent isn't worth it. I mean... PC Engine is like what, $60-90$ on eBay?

But yeah the OCD in me definitely says to fix it.

[true iris]

I have no idea. I just like fixing things. My balance of money vs time may be different from yours. 😊

[true iris]

Well that's just horrifying. Ye gods. I'd fix it just to return some order to the universe.

[random bloom]

Try and find another faulty PCE, most of them probably just have blown fuses. That said, it doesn't look that bad, they've destroyed some of the traces but can just bridge with wires direct to the connection points, there's only what, 6 that need doing? I had to cut and resolder the entire ribbon cable on mine, that was a pain in the ass.

[night breach]

Yeah I’m doing it with short wires. I am using a working Core Grafx by probing to confirm what goes where. Does anyone happen to have the schematics?

[stiff lotus]

Camp California is The Beach Boys game I never knew I needed

[slim yew]

Of all the beach boy games, it is one.

[stiff lotus]

one of two, I guess three if you count Surf City for the CDi

[slim yew]

I somehow got on the nec mailing list, and I got a few vhs tapes advertising turbografx games. I remember one had camp California.

Even then, it didn’t look very fun 😄

[stiff lotus]

Yeah it’s not lol, it’s neat though.

[night breach]

Order restored. Flux is your friend.

[true iris]

Outstanding work, I love to see it. 🙂

[left merlin]

Is there a free uploader site that I could use to upload something for anyone to check out a PCE wav file? Anyone who regularly or used to regularly listen to the PCE CD music in CD players or on their PCs would be appreciated

Just wanted to see if anyone would be willing to check out a single wav from a game to see if it sounds fine on their systems, a 1.5 minute track

[regal valley]

what game is it from and whats the problem?

[jovial jackal]

You can post here in chat

[left merlin]

Oh, that's convenient 😅 didn't know we could

Lords of Thunder, opening theme, how does it sound on your speakers, system, PC, or anywhere you listen to music or play games?

It sounds like the levels are too high. Are they?

[jovial jackal]

This is cd rip?

[left merlin]

But you'll know if it sounds weird within 15-30seconds

CD rip plus altered EQs

Pure CD rip audio levels are really low

[jovial jackal]

Ah yeah there are mods of louder cd audio

Cd audio out of consoles also not as clean

[left merlin]

Trying to find one that sounds good, not just cranked up

Did you listen to the track?

[jovial jackal]

Yeah but hard to tell without comparison. Do you have rip of original?

[dark osprey]

pretty sure there is an option in the MiSTer core to boost CD audio, which I always leave on

[left merlin]

Don't have the original handy, sorry.

[jovial jackal]

CD audio boost is nice option. Doesn't clip

[left merlin]

the audio boost supposedly made DracX sound effects muted so I've left it off since then.

[left merlin]

did the track I upped have clipping in it on your side?

[jovial jackal]

I'm not great at hearing clipping unless it's really bad...

see any clipping in wave form?

[dark osprey]

yeah I probably wouldn't notice either...

[jovial jackal]

I think those audio boost mods are not clipping

[left merlin]

I was just trying out the various audio boosts within the core and damn, I'd been wasting my time trying to find mods of louder CD audio when it was here all along in the core. Thanks for such an awesome feature @grand moss

and thanks @dark osprey and @jovial jackal for the thinktank on this 😄

[dark osprey]

Haha cool yeah I wasn’t sure if you were using it yet or not 😄

[left merlin]

I had tried it but then I read how it could drown out sfx in games and so I stopped using it. I try to be as console accurate as possible but if genuine improvements like this are available with only benefits, why not use’m

[grand moss]

Actually the boosted CD audio was probably Kitrinx

I think the increased volume levels overwhelm the sound effects, and especially the ADPCM.

I myself generally play with either default volume levels, or with amplified ADPCM only.

[left merlin]

@warped blade boosted audio 🙏😎

[left merlin]

I really only want to use it on the two Thunder series games. But it’s so worth it

[warped blade]

Isn't that already implemented? I could have sworn I added that at some point

[upbeat lintel]

And we love you for it ❤️

[grand moss]

Yes, you did. You were being thanked for it

[steel ibex]

It would be insane to get a dubbed version of R-Type CD similar to how Ys 4 was done. The cutscenes in that version are wild.

[jovial jackal]

Ha yeah that would be wild. Bring back people who did vo for Black Hole Assault. That english dialog is pretty funny. It's too bad they mellowed it down for sega cd version.

[pseudo rivet]

i had absolutely zero idea Rtype CD had custscenes.. will check it out!

[left merlin]

They were old school CGI scenes IIRC

[night breach]

Is it true that S-video is the most accurate colour representation for PC-Engine?
can a SCART with Sync-on-Luma do the job that S-Video can do?

[olive ferry]

You need to mod your pcengine (TurboNanza
), you can get s-video output, and its color palette is indeed correct.

[night breach]

Yep I installed the turbonanza 🙂 just wondering if these SCART cables with Sync on Luma is the same as an S-Video cable. Or maybe there is a palette on the PCE core

[olive ferry]

Probably not, very few devices can receive svideo signals in scart (rgb-input), and it only has luma, usually using saturn-svideo cable, turbonanza's svideo performance is very outstanding

[grand moss]

Summary:

1. PC Engine's composite output is already excellent to start with, for two reasons: a) all possible pixel clocks are aligned to NTSC frequencies, either as direct harmonics or half-harmonics, b) the B-Y and R-Y outputs from the color generator chip are already modulated within the chip, so the signal is clean

2. S-Video modification should be as good as it gets because the R-Y and B-Y signals are already modulated; the S-Video mod simply amplifies them separately from luma (on the original console, they are all mixed together). The color outputs are derived from an internal lookup table in the chip, so there is a difference between S-Video/composite colorspace and RGB.

3. On MiSTer, a lookup table was implemented to simulate the composite/S-Video colorspace as closely as possible.

I don't know anything about the SCART cable you are referring to, though

[olive ferry]

I have a scart cable like his. My scart can switch between svideo luma/csync synchronization (it uses the Y signal of svideo as synchronization). If I want to use compoistie synchronization, I will use the 6xRCA interface instead.

[random bloom]

The Retrotink 4K will take any of those SCART variants, but that's a pretty big hammer. Run the svideo from the Turbonanza into it and it's very close to RGB quality but with the composite palette.

[jovial jackal]

On my setup, composite via analogue io vga -> active y/c adapter, original palette mode on mister is still more saturated than my duo. But I don't know if my duo is optimal. I had it recapped by someone few years ago and they did a pretty shoddy work...

[grand moss]

Probably the active y/c adapter

[jovial jackal]

Yeah that's my guess

[grand moss]

have you tried MikeS's modulated composite ?

[jovial jackal]

Hmm... don't know what is

[grand moss]

well, I should probably ask - when you say "active y/c adapter", where did you get it from ?

[jovial jackal]

Oh, misteraddons

[grand moss]

Oh, OK, then you are using MikeS's composite

[jovial jackal]

Using y/c adapter via direct video adds even more saturation

It's all fine at the end of the day. I'm very happy with y/ ccomposite

y/c

Definitely prefer original palette

[grand moss]

Yeah, I think it might be slightly more saturated.... but that might also be because the normal DAC is 6-bit

[jovial jackal]

Was there official svideo out for pce?

[grand moss]

No

[jovial jackal]

Ah so just rf and composite

[grand moss]

There also wasn't an official RGB out

right, just RF and composite

but it was a good composite, among consoles

[jovial jackal]

Yeah definitely

[grand moss]

Kind of depended on your TV whether you could appreciate it though. I had a near-top-class Zenith back in the day, with an awesome comb filter.

[jovial jackal]

Looks pretty damn nice on my old ass 13 inch consumer trinitron heh heh

Another thing is y/c adapter composite is generally a bit blurrier but is cleaner in motion because of that.

[grand moss]

It's quite good for being done on the FPGA

[jovial jackal]

Yeah really nice

I used to use wii for emu on crt. It has great composite

[covert sinew]

Your details on composite made me hold off on a video mod. Just going to get my TurboDuo recapped and call it a day 🙂

[grand moss]

Yeah, if you were going to have a mod installed, I would advise the Turbonanza, because it adds S-Video as well as RGB

(and it retains composite)

I much prefer the composite palette, though there are some games where it doesn't make a huge difference

[stiff lotus]

lol “Turbonanza” is a pretty good name

[covert sinew]

That’s the one that caught my eye

[ember anchor]

Well, the PC Engine I own is now up for sale because this core is literally perfect.

[olive ferry]

The quality of the RGB output is of course excellent, but the wrong color plate conversion seems not only to cause color errors, but also to lose the details reflected in the picture. This was captured using pc engine console, not Mister (pictured: composite/svide/rgb) It cannot restore the original colors and details through adjustment.

[grand moss]

I ilke the console and I like MiSTer, and the goal is to recreate everything possible on MiSTer... could you be more specific about what you think is missing on MiSTer ?

[olive ferry]

I ilke the console and I like MiSTer, my favorite console incorporates the pc engine, I'm happy with the core of the Mister, especially the clean HDMI output, but I'm not sure if my proportions are quite right...

[regal valley]

I love the composite palette... I makes it hard to play my RGB modded Duo-R and SuperGrafx; I ended up getting a CD unit for my CoreGrafx

[true flare]

Anyone played the Sailor Moon fan translation?

I get missing voice lines on both Mister and an emulator. The image has the correct checksum.

[night breach]

It’s been fine for me. Could be your SD card. I personally run off of a NAS (cifs_mount)

[grand moss]

Another thing that some people do (which messes up games sometimes) is to set the CD seek time to have no delay. (though I don't know if that's what is going on here)

[true flare]

My CD speed in retroarch is set to 1x.

CD seek on Mister is set to Normal.

And I doubt the SD card on my Mister and my emulatiin handheld have identical problems.

Lines are not missing until way later in the game. I have a save file of it.

[grand moss]

RetroArch shouldn't be considered to be a good emulator for PC Engine

Right now, Mesen 2 (from the past 2 months) or my Mednafen fork from 2024 would be better for compatibilty.

But if it's the same problem, it seems like it might be related to the game image

[true flare]

Checksum was correct.

[left merlin]

I used Magic Engine back in the day. It seemed like it worked exactly like my Duo but idk it’s been a real long time

[grand moss]

I don't believe in checksums on CDs. There's too much going on to put into a single number. And whose "master" is the so-called "correct" one ?

The table of contents could be slightly wrong on one track

Was this game patched ?

If the checksum came from Supper's patch program, then it's probably good

Maybe you could show an easy-to-find example of a missing line, and I'll check it when I get home

[upbeat lintel]

Magic Engine was awesome and the author used to do a lot of really cool contest giveaways of sealed games.

[covert sinew]

That was my first emulator way back in the day, many fond memories

[stiff lotus]

I actually never bothered with TG16 emulation until I bought the TG16 Mini

Then I went over to the MiSTer

[signal quarry]

I used Magic Engine to play through Ys I, II and III. It was good.

[steel ibex]

In my opinion, the TG16 Mini is the best of the mini consoles that released during the mini console boom! Fantastic UI, a great lineup of games (that many people missed out on) including a ton of Japan exclusive releases. It also didn't have the issues that the Genesis Mini had (insane audio lag) and the SNES Classic (short cables).

I actually still use the controller that came with it to play TG16 games on my MiSTer.

[stiff lotus]

SNES Classic had rewind tho, it sucks that no one followed that up

Also yeah the Genesis Mini audio lag was pretty disappointing

[left merlin]

I bought a few extra for that exact reason 😎

My muscle memory for certain games necessitates the actual controller or it just doesn’t feel right when playing

[jovial jackal]

CD spinning sound when loading cd games is Gold.

[stiff lotus]

Yeah, I took a few sound bytes from the TG16 mini to use for boot up sounds lol

[pseudo rivet]

Agree 100% And yes the controller is an awesome recreation especially with the turbo switches

on the MiSTer I basically use the TG16 Pad and a PS5 pad, depending

oh and also a USB 2600 joystick for VCS games ;p

[night breach]

Hi - does anyone know if SNAC works with 6-button controllers (ie Duo-RX pad and Avenue pad). It doesn’t work for me but I am thinking it is because I maybe have an older obsolete SNAC board

[grand moss]

It would be related to the SNAC board. PC Engine polls very quickly - faster than the open-drain I/Os on the standard SNAC board can switch. I designed a special PC Engine-specific SNAC board for that. I don't sell them, but I'm sure somebody around here does.

[knotty skiff]

Quick one: is there a way to have the core automatically load say the arcade card for those disc games that need it? Would putting a copy of the card rom in the game folder do this?

[grand moss]

It's a core setting on the menu

Under "Hardware"

[true iris]

If anyone's looking for something weird to play, I dug up an old article I wrote (25+ years ago!) about Ai Cho Aniki, which is better (IMO) than most people give it credit for: https://nfgworld.com/old-post-ai-cho-aniki/

[covert sinew]

Very cool. Love the layout. I agree that this series is underrated. Just so off the wall that it’s unique and fun

[weak ivy]

When you said "hori 6" is that the same as the fighting commander / mega commander?

[grand moss]

Yeah, he's talking about the Fighting Commander. I don't think Hori made any other 6 button controllers for PC Engine (may not have made any 2-P controllers either)

[weak ivy]

I wonder if the mega drive and snes versions are basically the same? They are cheaper.

[true iris]

They are the same in every way but the console comms.

One of the best pads ever.

[weak ivy]

oh awesome. I'll get whichever is cheaper then.

[torpid moat]

Can someone check if some of the character portraits in the game “Fighting run” look like this on Og hardware ?

Sorry for the shit pic

[grand moss]

Ehh.... on any game, you're always going to get a better response if you describe an easy way to get to that screen, and assume that nobody else has ever played that game and got to that screen.

And if it can only be reached through game advancement, then you would need a game save and a description starting from the game save point

[coarse shadow]

You can check this easily. Go to "Edit Mode" and select Runner1 or Runner2 and browse through the portraits. Yes, they look fine on a real PC-Engine. Guess we found a bug here.

[torpid moat]

It’s right at the character select. Just load up the game and go through the different opponents you can choose from, remember you can choose different levels and both the initial
Levels have different opponents and look at all of em

[torpid moat]

Yay I found a bug!

It only affects certain character portraits .. and it’s a shame cause the art looks good .. probably the best feature of the game lol

[torpid moat]

🐛

[coarse shadow]

Yep, the game is complete trash.

[coarse shadow]

Ingame graphics seems broken too, with wrong colors fo the robots when the action starts. Also for the left and right energy bars (i guess that's what they are). There are colored in red, blue and green. Totally off, they should have green gradients on the left bar and blue on the right. Probably the same issue.

[grand moss]

Hmm... I could have sworn that this was working in the past. Can you check old versions of the core ?

[coarse shadow]

Sure, how old should they are?

Tried some older ones, the same color glitches.

TurboGrafx16_20220326.rbf
TurboGrafx16_20230102.rbf
TurboGrafx16_20230224.rbf
TurboGrafx16_20230627.rbf
TurboGrafx16_20231204.rbf

[coarse shadow]

Ok, this one (which already had direct video support) works. The ones before too as it seems.

TurboGrafx16_20200212.rbf

[torpid moat]

Good work!

[grand moss]

Are you able to find the first non-working version ?

(This is good detective work, by the way !)

[coarse shadow]

The last working one could be "TurboGrafx16_20200326.rbf". I can't test TurboGrafx16_20200526.rbf, TurboGrafx16_20200519.rbf, TurboGrafx16_20200517.rbf, the controller seems broken in this releases for me. In core "TurboGrafx16_20200529.rbf" the controls are working again, and i get the color glitches.

[grand moss]

OK, that's interesting

That corresponds with srg320's massive rewrite to support CDROM

But I think I understand what might be at issue - This game is possibly the only game in the whole library to use 4-color sprites (as opposed to 16-color sprites)

[coarse shadow]

Ah, ok. Never seen this in other games (HuCard or CD-ROM). You could be right.

[true iris]

Game devs did bizarre things.

[grand moss]

Well, it's a valid format - just basically unused.

[grand moss]

OK, I've done some digging, and put all the tech info into a GitHub issue.
I took a look at the code, and it's not something I can just fix quickly - the way it's written is a bit confusing to me

So maybe srg320 will take a look and fix it.

[grand moss]

Can you folks maybe test a fix I made ?

#test-builds message

(for the Fighting Run issue)

It fixed the issue that I was able to see - but that's all I tested. Would be nice for somebody to go further in the game and check more things to see that nothing else broke.

[naive stump]

Before and afters from the edit mode. I don't know the game but it looks way better to me

Shout out to Michael Keaton there

[grand moss]

So in-game play is also looking better too ?

[naive stump]

I used the Destroy Opponent in One Hit cheat to play through the 1p mode and nothing stood out as broken

[grand moss]

awesome, I'll make a PR

[naive stump]

Thank you for the excellent work!

[weak ivy]

I am thrilled to say that I'm going to be joining the hori commander family.

Got a good price on a mega commander yesterday.

[spark osprey]

using cheats for testing purposes is something I never think of, gotta remember that

[stiff lotus]

If you use cheats you’re not just cheating the game, you’re not just cheating yourself, but you’re also cheating your MiSTer!

[naive stump]

You are right. I have shamed myself and must leave these lands just as werner herzog's penguin did

[earnest blaze]

Transition from Hank Hill to Mike Brady is complete 🙂
"Jan, a real friend likes you for who you are, not what's on your face. If you judge your friends for passing judgment on you, you're not only judging yourself you're judging your friends for judging you. And that would be using bad judgment."

[stiff lotus]

Thank you @grand moss and @torpid moat

[torpid moat]

4 WHUT?

Oh wait nvm … you are welcome bruhh! And it’s @grand moss who did all the work , I just did what I do best and played the core lol

[proven portal]

Something similar happened on a real hardware but it was a different game. It was a while back...

[grand moss]

Thanks for finding the issue @torpid moat

[torpid moat]

No need to thank me I’m Just doing what I do best .. playing everything a core has to offer lol Ty for the work!

[grand moss]

BTW, another person found something in Mednafen related to the SCSI I/O which I will put into the core at some point. The important fact that he found was surrounding SCSI abort signals.
Let me know if you ever see a CDROM game hang during load; there may be a fix

[left merlin]

Presuming we’re talking anything longer than 30 seconds for a hang in loading as I can’t recall any game taking much longer than that.

[grand moss]

I've received one or two reports of a hang at the load of a level in Panic Bomber I think. And there is an open case about Tanjou Debut (both are intermittent)

I think the Panic Bomber one was fixed though

[left merlin]

Somewhat peculiar that seemingly no other Super CD games have had load hangs, especially these two don't seem taxing on the system like late system releases sometimes can be

[grand moss]

Well, these don't either, most of the time. The operating theory is that there may be something around handling SCSI that is different. In particular, one of the things that was found to be implemented incorrectly in Mednafen (and likely MiSTer) was how to deal with the SCSI Abort command.

Anyway, I'm not saying that somethig is broken - it's actually the opposite: despite inconsistencies in the SCSI implementation, the games all seem to work. I'm just asking you to keep your eyes open for oddities

[stiff lotus]

I’m using the new core and playing TG16 games like normal just to see if it’s all working solid and so far so good.

[weak ivy]

I switched to the new core last night. So far so good. Although my attention span for Fighting Run is very limited.

No issues on that or other games so far.

[grand moss]

Good to hear

[torpid moat]

Was playing Cadash and noticed that the sound levels are noticeably higher than all other games ?.. just an observation .. any particular reason?

[steel ibex]

Probably just the game. Even modern games struggle to agree on standardized audio levels. Some games are really quiet and then I'll boot up another game on the same console and it's like they want to blow out my ear drums!

[proven portal]

Pc engine core has been mdfourier certified

[torpid moat]

Word , pc engine games in general seem to be extra quiet

[clear kelp]

it's been a while, but I did end up having a hang issue with riot zone loading between levels. It's been quite a while though so I'll need to test again

[grand moss]

Let me know if it happens again.

[weak ivy]

I did a scientific poll in #general-banter message of pc engine vs snes and pc engine got all the votes somehow. Congrats everyone! You did it!

[grand moss]

And you didn't need my help. 😉

[weak ivy]

You did it!

Thanks so much for your work! I have been playing a bunch lately since I got a pce controller and hori commander. Lots of fun.

[narrow tide]

I have found this text problem in the last unstable, but the problem is in the official release too. This is in the intro of Mugen Senshi Valis. The game itself has no problems.

[proven portal]

This happens on real hardware as well. If you switch to japanese bios, it will be fixed

[narrow tide]

ummm I think I'm using the Super CD japanese bios. I will check

[prisma torrent]

Wait a minute... This isn't Rondo of Blood!

[left merlin]

…what is it?
Remind me of the syscard1 intro level a little

[prisma torrent]

If you swap to a 1.0 or 2.0 pce bios, you get a crazy mini level with prerendered 3d graphics.

You can just get the same effect by sticking that bios rom in your game folder and calling it cd_bios.rom

[worn spindle]

Developers used to hide easter eggs in PC Engine CD games if the game detects compatibility issues, like unique illustrations or messages.

Similarly some of them also have hidden messages if you put a game into a CD player and try to play the first audio track.

[prisma torrent]

Yeah, the cutting room floor has a ton of info on stuff like that

[left merlin]

I don’t recall ever seeing that Castlevania screen tho. I thought it just loaded directly into the level.

[prisma torrent]

That's what happens when you walk to the end. You can walk and jump around with Maria

[plucky python]

I remember the 1st or 2nd track of Turbo CDs would blowout your ear drums (and possibly speakers) 😬
I seem to remember a recorded warning.

[left merlin]

Yup
All first tracks are the warning
Then
Data AKA human ear death
And lastly
Wonderful redbook audio
If you can still hear anything

[true iris]

I never had a CD player that would even try to play track 2.

Also, for a fun track, try the warning on Panic Bomber.

[grand moss]

I had a CD player that would play track 2. It was noise, and loud - but not the end of the world (if you knew enough to turn down the sound beforehand)

[grand moss]

Well, ACKSHUALLLY.... there are a small number of games which omit the warning track, and are basically all 1 data track. The Sherlock Holmes games are examples.

[grand moss]

I just tried. I didn't quite understand the second voice, but the two other voices were good.

Very much like Popful Mail's

Actually, would be interesting to find all the variations. Probably 80% of games used the same track though.

Urusei Yatsura is unique too

You can pretty tell which are the "usual" track just by looking at the size of it

Oh, Tenchi Muyo is a good one too

[left merlin]

I suppose luck of the draw that I never had a game setup like that.

[left merlin]

That’s interesting. What brand and year make was the player?

[grand moss]

I think he was implying that was the case with mulitple makes. From my perspective, I have a vague memory that only the oldest players (pre-1986) would not mute the digital tracks

[true iris]

Yeah, what @grand moss said. Many different players.

[left merlin]

Ours were early 80s to late 80s with only a few from the 90s. Denon, Sony, and Yamaha were the most common ones but I can’t recall all of them.
Everything “played” the data nice and crunchy.

[barren plinth]

Hello everyone, I try to play two player with two usb pads, when I start the core the first on shows the p1 popup and if I then use the second a p2 popup appears but in game only the p1 controller controls both player 1 and 2. Any idea what could be the issue?

[grand moss]

You have to Enable Turbo Tap. The original system had one controller port, and required a "tap" device to be able to split it out to more controllers.

[barren plinth]

Great, thanks a lot!

[cosmic wasp]

Does anyone know if this graphical glitch in the water of Rondo of blood stage 2 is a known issue in the turbo core? Or is it just my rom?

[stiff lotus]

Does it happen on original hardware?

[cosmic wasp]

Can’t confirm myself but I don’t notice it in this YouTube video of the same area on og hardware

https://youtu.be/cTQ814dW5Xw?si=IYAu92hKYd3cWtg4

I can confirm that it’s not present in the psp/ps4 port as well

[stiff lotus]

I wonder if using a CRT somehow hides the error. @grand moss knows the TG16 inside and out.

But thanks for doing the proper due diligence.

[cosmic wasp]

I have no CRT to test but if any of you guys have one and can get to alt path stage 2 to see if it’s noticeable I’d appreciate it

Not that it probably matters but I tried out every filter available on the mister video settings and it never went away

[stiff lotus]

That’s a good test too

[grand moss]

That looks similar to the effect that they were using on level 5 to make the water's surface shimmer

I can't say one way or the other whether real hardware does that, but I do expect that if I remove this, it would also remove the shimmer on the suface of stage 5

So basically, I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too

[cosmic wasp]

Interesting. I’m curious now if the analogue duo produces the same result

[stiff lotus]

Their core isn’t as accurate as the MiSTer one so be aware as you do your comparison.

[naive stump]

💪

[summer rivet]

Are any of them? 😇

[cosmic wasp]

Update: Tried a different dump and am getting the same issue. So it’s either a bug in the core or part of OG hardware that’s just not noticeable with a CRT

[thorny pelican]

Confirmed on original hardware. Rest easy now. Any excuse to play one of my favorite games. 🙂

[cosmic wasp]

Thank you so much!

[stiff lotus]

You two are awesome!! 🥳

[thorny pelican]

The fact the glitches are accurate speaks volumes for the quality of the core.

[summer lintel]

I was gonna say everything I read has been telling me this is one of the most accurate cores so I'd be surprised if that wasn't on OH

[thorny pelican]

I own multiple PC Engine consoles. I still prefer playing on the MiSTer. 🙂

This and the Neo Geo core being so accurate keeps all that hardware in their respective plastic tombs.

[steel ibex]

Any time I bring out the old Sega Genesis, I say "Wise from your gwave!"

[cosmic wasp]

For curiosity sake is there a list/video of the differences in the 2 cores?

[grand moss]

Me too. Though I don't play as much anymore

[grand moss]

Last I heard, they (Analogue Duo) were still making fixes to their firmware, but the differences were basically too many to list at that time

Maybe it's settled down a bit, but I don't know

At the time, the unofficial Pocket core (ported from MiSTer) still had a few things to fix, but it was miles ahed of the Analogue Duo product

[cosmic wasp]

Kind of insane to pay mister prices for a worse core and way more limited hardware

[grand moss]

Yeah, but it really had appeal to its core public.

Andmaybe they got most/all of the issues fixed by now. I really haven't been watching

[cosmic wasp]

I would hope so

[grand moss]

Hmm.. most recent is v1.3, from 2024-03-29

[cosmic wasp]

The big one that I know about is the unpatchable issue of the hucard slot being too small to fit an everdrive without unscrewing it and exposing the board

[summer lintel]

that's not patchable? lol

[cosmic wasp]

They need to send a shrink ray in the next firmware update

[left merlin]

Couldn’t you remove the top half of the Analogue Duo, flip it over, use a dremel tool to shave off about 1.5mm of the card slot?

[faint dagger]

I also had some problem with the CD tray being on my system, after the disc being ejected.

Too many problems and defects on that kind of products for me.
But I see people buying them like an Apple product and defending them (like with Apple).

[left merlin]

Aside from the MiSTer core being as good as it already was when the A.Duo was coming out, already having a few variants of original HW, seeing their design with a slot loader was my sign to avoid it.
I’ve seen slot loader trouble before and I wasn’t gonna risk my PCE discs to that potential problem.
Wasn’t there an issue where its drive scratched up discs originally? Something like that… Until a FW update resolved it.

[faint dagger]

Too late for me and that should be something quite easily checked on QA way before the initial run.

[pseudo rivet]

Duo was the first Analogue Console i took a pass on

That said, I love playing TG16 on the Pocket 😄

[dark osprey]

MiSTer PCE core is so good, hard to recommend grabbing the Duo when what we already have is so close to perfect

Love their shell design as always though

[dark osprey]

I imagine this is mitigated by the “jailbreak” firmware that just lets you load rom files…

[pseudo rivet]

my Turbo Everdrive from Krikzz came naked anyway. But yeah it's odd they didn't account for that

[cosmic wasp]

That’s because analogue products are NOT for playing copyrighted roms silly.

[stiff lotus]

But they advertised the new pocket colors with the resident evil prototype which can only be played as a copyrighted rom. Oopsie

[pseudo rivet]

That’s from those pesky jailbreakers

[thorny pelican]

GOT EM!

Sheriff Robby strikes again.

[crisp elk]

Anyone here use this controller on the PC Engine/Duo core and can comment on how well it works? I have a Reflex adapter and trying to choose a controller

[thorny pelican]

@weak ivy ☝️

[weak ivy]

It works great with reflex. It's much bigger than the normal pce controller. Both turbo speeds work but i dont know how accurate they are compared to a real pce. the III button is a mirror of either select or run. The switch lets you choose.

[crisp elk]

Thanks, I will probably buy one since I have a PCE Reflex adapter

[regal valley]

seeing your new handle I take it you have played Bazaru de Gozaru 😅

[true iris]

I think it's an awful pad. The size of it makes it unwieldy, it feels square and awkward in the hand. All the 6 button pads are far better.

[stiff lotus]

Haha you’re right but I forgot about that. De gozaru is samurai speak so I thought it was extra weeb-y lol

[faint dagger]

De arimasu is weeb-y too.

[regal valley]

oh I see, its like a fancy desu

[naive stump]

Del Tiramisu is the Italian version

[pseudo rivet]

I use the USB pad from the TG16 Mini

a shame they aren't available in other ways aside from getting a TG16 Mini