Atari Jaguar

[sterile moss]

hey @dreamy hinge, any chance of getting your build with spinner support for tempest2k?

[halcyon surge]

Ok so Single core better than i imagined. Not sure there too much in the Jag Library that would make me upgrade to a Dual Ram setup. I see now why i was never fussed about getting a Jaguar back in the day lol!

But I must say Tempest2k is good - somehow better than in the psx core maybe. cant get Mutant Penguins to work, loads but goes to black screen when game starts

[sacred blade]

Tempest 2K is on the Saturn as well

[glossy iron]

But jaguar one is by far the best. The Saturn and ps1 ports got the controls and timings wrong.

[near aurora]

the most important part, and they goofed it

[halcyon surge]

Yup don't feel right. The best tempest imo is either T2K PSP or the switch game. Sadly not available on mister.

[glossy iron]

You mean TxK on Vita? Yes that's the best one besides the Jaguar T2k. Tempest 4000 on switch is based on TxK but has the same problems like the ps1 and Saturn port of 2k. The controls on 4000 are not that precise then TxK, controls in the bonus stages feel botched, badly translated from vita's gravity controls mapped on a joystick

[halcyon surge]

Yes that's the one

[gentle bobcat]

I have a Playstation TV (a Vita-as-console you hook up to a TV) and have TxK. It is indeed on-par with T2K on Jag. I have T3K on a Nuon but no game controller and just the DVD player remote so I've not gotten a chance to really play it but it looks good. I have T4K on PS4 and it is slightly better than the PS1 Tempest X3. Saturn T2K is better than the PS1 version. I think we pretty much agree on the ranking. 🙂

I'm not sure who wins between TxK and Jag T2K as that is very close. Probably the later for length of time I've been playing it and the fact that's where I started the journey.

[ashen spoke]

Tempest X3 wins because it’s on the PS1 and the PS1 is king!

[gentle bobcat]

@ashen spoke - You sir, are outside of the concensus. :P~~~

[mental briar]

King of POOP amirite u guys

[sterile moss]

System doesn't even roar at startup

[ashen spoke]

One day I'll actually compare the Jaguar and PS1 versions to see the differences lol

[urban mango]

There is a T2K mode unlockable in Tempest X3 but it’s still not quite the same IIRC, I still prefer the Jag one. Nice to see a fellow Nuon owner! Yeah the remote is really not good for playing.

[haughty crypt]

Guys, could you help me please. Been trying to download latest Jaguar core, but it's saying that I have no access to this Discord channel

[uncut atlas]

make sure you have the correct roles in id:customize

[haughty crypt]

Sorted, Thanks!

[glossy iron]

I have a nuon and 3k, also a controller. 3k suffers from slowdowns and some annoying enemy types, especially the pulsars. But 3k has the best soundtrack of all tempest games

[gentle bobcat]

@CD-i - I didn't even realize that T3K had an original soundtrack. Just pulled all 7 songs from YouTube and first listen, they seem fairly good... but less layers/complexity than the T2K soundtrack. TxK's soundtrack is a banger too. I'm sure as I listen to T3K's soundtrack, it'll grow on me.

I have the audio CD of the T2K soundtrack... autographed even by a few of the folks from Atari.

[gentle bobcat]

Ok, I did it. I bought a Nuon-to-N64 controller adapter. Songbird Productions only had 3 left so now I guess there are 2. 🙂 A bit pricey but I waited a long time to pull the trigger and with so few left not very safe to wait. Finally I'll get to play T3K. Turns out I bought my son 4 repro N64 controllers last Xmas so I won't have any trouble finding a controller.

With all of the mention of variations of Tempest, I broke out the Playstation TV and played a game of TxK. Then I looked at T3K on the Nuon. On the TV I have it hooked up to, man is it blury. I hope it isn't that way everywhere?!?! Then I finished up with one game of T2K on the Jaguar core.

Songbird Productions just announced a new game for the Jaguar named "Old Towers". I'm not down for buying fairly pricey carts and wish they had a digital option.

[glossy iron]

T3k is blurry all the way. Minter made it blurry on purpose. I feels like a fever dream

T3k ost is great. It's the complete 2k CD ost plus 7 exclusive tracks.

This is by far the best. Takes some minutes to get epic
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VNVLpNDKNE8&list=PL_CzRQkRTx309SAsyqWdPyJ1VsHh2rcwk&index=6&pp=iAQB8AUB

[grizzled mantle]

Great soundtrack

[quick bluff]

I would like to test drive the Jaguar. I've had the equipment since yesterday. And that's all I need to be happy

[gentle bobcat]

@quick bluff - Are you able to see the pinned items? That's where you can get the core as well as a BIOS with the MiSTer mascot rather than the Jaguar cube. If not, I think one of our Discord admins will have to flag something for you.

@quick bluff - You drop the .rbf into the _Consoles directory, make a games/Jaguar dir. Put the BIOS file in games/Jaguar and drop your game ROMs in the games/Jaguar dir. Then you'll see the Jaguar listed in the console menu.

[dusk slate]

Don't forget to name the bios to "boot.rom"!

[glad flame]

Been a month since we got a new build. Wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

[thorny swift]

ugh Nuon. Pickiest damn console ever

hates burns, wouldn't play Songbird presses...just would play OG games

[thorny swift]

Nuon is always blurry. It's N64 vaseline except with more polygons

https://youtu.be/T_1rWJbwQY4

that's off my NUON and component video

Toshiba SD-2300

[glossy iron]

Yeah the Toshiba sd300 doesn't work with CDR. The Samsung 50x are working fine with burned games

[thorny swift]

but sometimes it does. That T3K capture was off a burn

that reminds me I made one Nuon vid in 2022 and I forgot to air it and its still pending lol

[stone vault]

So what you're saying is we need a Nuon core?

[lucid oak]

nuon mister core confirmed?

[gentle bobcat]

The Nuon was/is basically the Jaguar 2.

[uncut atlas]

in no way whatsoever, but sure

[forest tartan]

Not many titles for the Nuon, I remember playing them in the emu, which was good, but sadly the author passed away. Currently the entire dumps are only 9 titles, the rest MIA or known to have been destroyed.

[thorny swift]

Some shared staff is why it always gets through of a a Jag 2

Also it failed so really there’s the connection haha

[ashen spoke]

lol this is like the one time that youtuber claimed the M2 came out

[thorny swift]

this makes me want to redo my teardown of NUON haha

[ashen spoke]

Oh you did one, damn can you link?

that's cool

[thorny swift]

https://youtu.be/ArBe2-0nbcw

https://youtu.be/CrrG5eHIVCY

https://youtu.be/T_1rWJbwQY4

https://youtu.be/AWSDpVCrY2w

all I did. They all did shit views

made it and abandoned it

I need a second channel "VGE videos VGE forgot about and are now too old to show but are still uploaded"

[gentle bobcat]

I would be very surprised if the Nuon was doable on the Cyclone V. It's 128-bit. The folks who designed the Jaguar for Atari did the Nuon. Not a lot of public information about the technical specs of it but Minter made Tempest 3000 and the Virtual Light Machine 2... and the founder of the project was from Atari as were a few other folks... so spiritually it was a successor to the Jag. I have no idea if it has any similar hardware design.

[ashen spoke]

I don’t think there is anyone out there who’d be remotely interested in creating a Nuon core even if the FPGA hardware were more than sufficient.

[gentle bobcat]

Well, come to think of it, Atari did have a prototype Jaguar 2 but I think it was basically a Jaguar with the CD player built-in. So maybe the Nuon would be the Jaguar 3. I, in no way, was asking for a Nuon core.

The Nuon would have major hurdles because it is integrated with various manufacturers' DVD players and relies on deep integration (I would imagine)

[thorny swift]

I wouldn't blame them

[thorny swift]

Jag 2 was a new platform. There was a combo unit in development but Jag 2 was an expanded spec

[gentle bobcat]

Songbird Productions has two new Nuon games (the first ones in 20 years) but they are fairly basic.

[thorny swift]

I had their reprint of Iron Soldier 3 and it would not boot on my Toshiba

but an OG copy is fine

dunno what is going on with their manufacturing

[gentle bobcat]

I was just checking out the VLM2 for the first time last night. I have the Toshiba SM2300 (or something very close to that) and it only has 8 VLM modes. One of the other players has 150 modes. I'd like to get me one of them.

They came out with an updated IS3 media that does work on the model we have.

And they offer free replacement DVD discs.

[thorny swift]

ahh good to know. I never really bothered finding out why

[gentle bobcat]

When I got my Nuon it didn't even have a remote and I had to hunt down a new-old-stock one but I finally got one. I didn't have any instructions and when you stick an audio CD in there, it doesn't start the VLM2 by default... so just got that figured out. Before when I was trying to do it without a remote, no way to engage it.

You have to push the joystick on the remote up once playing and it'll go to the first VLM mode... so if you haven't tried it yet, go for it.

I'd really like to find a PDF manual for this thing.

[thorny swift]

I have a USB to Nuon adapter. Makes life a LOT easier

[gentle bobcat]

On Monday I should have the Nuon-to-N64 adapter.

When I first got the Nuon there weren't any adapters available.

The DVD-Rs I burned from archive.org all work fine although I have to wonder how long the DVD/CD mechanism can survive.

Does the Nuonance(sp?) software emulator do the VLM?

I guess in a way, the Nuon is kinda like the CD-i except for DVDs.

In a review of the Samsung N-501 Nuon player the reviewer wrote, 'One thing that the N-501 has that no player besides the Samsung Extive N2000 has, is the VLM. If you're thinking, "What about the SD-2300's VLM?" I'll say this: Those measly 8 effects Toshiba has on the SD-2300 barely qualify. ' I kinda agree... but finding an N-501 seems impossible now (unless I think I can replace the drive mech) so I'll be happy with my 8-modes. 🙂

Just read that supposedly our lovely Toshiba model, even though it only has 8 VLM modes/effects, they are dynamically adjustable with the analog stick on a controller... which I'll hopefully to be able to try out on Monday night when the adapter arrives. I had a JagCD for about 6 months and really loved the VLM... and it would auto switch between modes and was very interactive.

[uncut atlas]

Should we make a Nuon thread in some dark corner of the server?

the only thing it has in common with jaguar is the fact that the only interesting game for it is tempest

[gentle bobcat]

No. I think I've basically exhausted what there is to say about it. Sorry. 🙂

[uncut atlas]

otherwise it doesnt belong in this thread

[gentle bobcat]

@uncut atlas - As always, I appreciate you!

[ashen spoke]

I don’t!

[thorny swift]

and some employees

and it failed

and it sucks? lol (kidding)

[gentle bobcat]

Everything sucks. Some stuff just sucks less. (that harkens back to stuff Steve Jobs and his minions would say during the early development of the Mac)

[dusk slate]

Just upload them as unlisted, but share the links with us crazy people who will watch them!

[thorny swift]

True I can do that. I have some vids I’ll never air. Got outdated, etc

[manic yarrow]

Is the single ram core stable right now? I've noticed that mutant penguins crashes after selecting the player and level.

[dusk slate]

No. The focus is always on the dual ram core first. And even that is not stable yet.

[mental briar]

it’s in good shape, most things run. but yeah, penguins crashes, soccer kid, something else too. grey (the dev working on this) wants to focus on dual ram to start so we don’t have a complete single ram compatibility list yet

[ashen spoke]

Lights Out!

[gentle bobcat]

I think the Jaguar's T2K is much more polished and playable, by a country mile, than T3K on the Nuon.

[olive pagoda]

Jag's come a long way! Just finished Rayman, no issues beyond some slight lag when there was a whole lot on screen which seldom happens. Absolutely playable from start to finish.

[elder swallow]

Congrats man. That's a challenging game.

[jovial night]

Why can't I download the Jaguar core? I keep getting an access denied message.

[mental briar]

You need to change your role. Click on Channels and Roles and select “I want it all”

[jovial night]

Thank you!!

[jovial night]

Where would I find "I want it all" ... I don't see that anywhere. lol.

[mental briar]

should be at the bottom of the first tab. under “what topics interest you”

[jovial night]

So when I click on "Channels & Roles" I get a blank screen that says "There are no customization options yet." ??

[sudden palm]

not familiar with this bug , works ok for me on win and phone

[jovial night]

hmm. Okay, thank for your help anyways. Much appreciated.

[sudden palm]

single and dualsdram cores

[jovial night]

Hell yeah! Thank you so much!!

[sudden palm]

no prob

[mental briar]

@ashen spoke Can you fix @jovial night’s role?

[unborn steeple]

@jovial night Role should be sorted now, can you check in id:customize again to make sure you have access?

[ashen spoke]

I got all excited because I thought there was a new build when I came in from being pinged and saw the cores posted 😭

[mental briar]

I get excited whenever this room lights up.

[forest tartan]

@sudden palm Sorry, is it a new build? 23th Jan?. Many thanks.

[sudden palm]

no , it's build from section "test-builds" #test-builds message

[warm oasis]

I perk up when I see new posts here as well. I think Kitrinx is waiting on a PR from Zakk adding in spinner support so she can do some polish updates on controller/peripheral features, so expecting that will be the next update when the time is right. Is exciting to see this core getting so much attention recently. 🙂

[dusk slate]

I really need a spinner controller.

[mental briar]

Grey is also working on some stuff from what I have seen from his github. I love this core so much, so happy it's getting far more love than it probably deserves 🙂

[dusk slate]

Every console deserves our love! 🫂

[hidden blade]

Apple Pippin too?

[ashen spoke]

Nope, not that one

[grizzled mantle]

LOVE.ALL.THE.CORES!

[ashen spoke]

Ok fine, you win.

[grizzled mantle]

@ashen spoke .....Apple Pippin has a Densha game...

Densha Daishuugou: Driving Train

[ashen spoke]

Holy shit you aren’t trolling!

lol you’re two for two on schooling me today

[grizzled mantle]

Actually I was like "quick, look at Pippin software and find something that will get Robby on the train" (pun intended) lol

[hidden blade]

https://tenor.com/view/power-rangers-mighty-morphin-power-rangers-gif-18003522

And Power Rangers too!!!

[serene widget]

The people just want to see the full potential of the Atari Jaguar just, you know, without the original hardware.

I know emulation can save it, be it software-based (BigPEmu), or hardware-based (the Mister core right here).

[thorny swift]

lol even I struggle to advocate for a Pippin core

PC-FX when?

[hollow epoch]

there's so much lower hanging fruit for Mac than a Pippin core... we don't even have a Mac II core (first color display-capable macs) (1987) yet. most of the Pippin software runs on Mac anyway

[warm oasis]

Pippin would actually be a really nice core to get one day, as you elude to it is just a consolised mid 90s Mac. Popping discs apparently run fine on Macs from that era.

But we do have a good few holes in Mac coverage on MiSTer

Still not got a Lisa

[hollow epoch]

Lisa is interesting and important historically, but would be quite a lot of work for an exceptionally small software library

[uncut atlas]

pippin was effectively just a mac in a different shell wasnt it?

[hollow epoch]

more or less, yes

there are a few titles that can't be run on regular Macs, but largely it's just a Mac with some different bits

[warm oasis]

Would a Lisa be difficult? I thought we had all the parts already

[hollow epoch]

when i say "exceptionally small software library", i'm not kidding: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1STG0Le_8dMHRLf026x6YfXzRQm2hD0igeZVb2Hx0Lxo/edit?gid=0#gid=0

you'll note half of that list are unconfirmed and non-existent/lost

anyway, i wouldn't hold my breath for anyone taking it on, even if some of the components are already available

LisaEm is pretty great if you're curious about the machine

Apple III would be more interesting to me, I think, and certainly Apple IIGS, and the aforementioned Mac II would make an absolutely massive amount of software available

anyway! sorry for off-topicking about Macs! just couldn't resist the urge to comment on the idea of "pippin core" from '96 when we don't even have color macintosh support lol

[warm oasis]

I know Alan has mentioned being interested in doing a Lisa core in the past, so maybe he or someone else will look at one at some point. Under the hood it is another 68000 computer; I am no expert but looking at the spec nothing is jumping out as something we don't have or would be more complex than any of the other things that need to be done to get these old microcomputers working

But yeah, this is the wrong chat for Mac musing 🙂

[gentle bobcat]

Supposedly the software-based Mac emulator works well on the Amiga core. I imagine there is probably also a way to do it on the Atari ST but the primary Mac emulator for the Atari ST used a cartridge that you had to place your purchased macOS ROMs in... as it was sold as a commercial product. Seriously, some videos I've seen of Mac emulation on the Amiga have been pretty impressive. I don't know if I've seen it on the MiSTer FPGA minimig core or not. I'd be surprised if it ididn't work.

I realize that isn't as good as a FPGA core... but better than not having a core at all.

[hollow epoch]

some of those videos may have been mine, it's good, but. yes, what you wrote

it is surprisingly good, really

but it's too many layers of emulation such that any issue you encounter is like... well... it could be one of like 5 things

loses a bit of the MiSTer magic, for me, at that point - but i will no longer belabor Mac talk in this chat! lol

[gentle bobcat]

@hollow epoch - And that is a Mac II color system it can do? Obviously with Motorola 68000 or 10 or 20.

[hollow epoch]

yes, it is color

[gentle bobcat]

We have to keep going until Kitrinx politely reminds us to stay on topic. Now her ears are burning. 🙂

I have to run. Later.

[ashen spoke]

I can’t wait for Kitrinx to come and tell us the sky in Cybermorph is actually vermillion because of some arcane magic she wrought to deduce the color palette of the Jaguar.

[mental briar]

She would never say something so controversial

[fresh urchin]

Green at night, sailor’s delight. Green in morning, where did you learn to fly?

[unborn steeple]

There were a couple of years where the best Mac you could run was in emulation on an Amiga, which was a peculiar state of affairs

[uncut atlas]

oddly enough the least signficant bit of blue on real jaguars isn't connected

so there's fewer gradients of blue than the other two colors

it's connected in the core because it seemed needless to just make the colors worse for no reason

[ashen spoke]

you can’t respond to my troll with facts and logic. That completely undermines me!

[uncut atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/now-you-know-the-more-you-know-no-kidding-no-shit-obviously-gif-1342210079425559607

[thorny swift]

Basically yes

It has no real exclusives to point to

You can put a pippin disc into a Mac and run it so effectively that means it has zero exclusives

But someone make one anyway! I can point to plenty of good arcade boards that use a PPC 603

[fresh urchin]

You just want it for the m2

[warm oasis]

Inversely, can you run Mac games for this era on a Pippin?

[mental briar]

You know we desperately need a core update when the thread starts talking about the pippin…

[warm oasis]

Hah, can't argue with that

[gentle bobcat]

I sent "The Macintosh Librarian" (a YouTuber) a MiSTer FPGA sandwich system several months back hoping she would cover the MacPlus and the Apple ][ cores some. She has been enjoying the Saturn core. 🙂

If there was a Mac II core, maybe would get some coverage.

[mental briar]

Grey, save us

[warm oasis]

Any update on the spinner support @dreamy hinge ?

[serene widget]

I'm actually interested in knowing which GitHub repo is been used to work on the core.

Is it Grey's, or Kitrinx's?

[mental briar]

Grey's

afaik

https://github.com/greyrogue/Jaguar_MiSTer/tree/rework

[uncut atlas]

mister-devel's has stuff merged into it as well

[mental briar]

yeah, if you want to post issues, use the mister-devel repo

[dense ravine]

I’m actually a little surprised this was the direction you went. (Not a criticism, just surprised, since it diverges from original hardware)

But I agree it seems needless (in the absence of any technical knowledge here)

[tall musk]

That’s cool! I love her channel.

[gentle bobcat]

@tall musk Yeah, that Macie(sp?) side-kick Mac is amazing. I've tried to get her to reveal some of the secrets of how that works but she wants to keep it secret.

[uncut atlas]

Well it's noted in the code

[fringe gazelle]

Hey folks quick question, is there an early version of the core available for testing and is there a site available to support the people behind it?

[fringe gazelle]

Oh wait so it's done? 😮

[sterile moss]

it's in the pins (if on mobile, you need to click the thread title up top, then settings, then it shows the option to view pins)

still WIP but it runs many games

[fringe gazelle]

Okay great thanks 🙂

I know it's got to be irritingt for everyone to ask about this probably daily. Just trying to make sure I have all my info stacked and up to date for a project I'm working on. 😄

[sterile moss]

nah not at all, ask away

[mental briar]

The dual ram core boots and plays everything. There are a couple of dances you need to do (like you can't boot flip out unless you boot AVP first), but everything runs

single ram core isn't the focus right now, so it's rougher

[sterile moss]

yeah the dual SDRAM core has better compat. if you your mister has 2 sticks installed

Single SDRAM build is newer and more limited

you need to copy the BIOS to /games/Jaguar/ as boot.rom also

[mental briar]

bios is pinned too (it can be distributed since it's open source)

or non-commercial? I dunno hasbro was like "please, jesus, someone do something with this"

[sterile moss]

I just know I got the OK to post the full thing instead of a bps patch 🙂

[mental briar]

ya, it's ok to distribute (and prettied up by duck)

[uncut atlas]

he jag bios appears to be okay to distribute

I feel like it would be acceptable to tidy up a thing or two and do a release of it soon tbh

@dreamy hinge you ever gonna commit that spinner code?

[dreamy hinge]

the PR is sitting there, perhaps even in the correct repo

[sterile moss]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Jaguar_MiSTer/pulls 🙏

https://tenor.com/view/beetlejuice-tim-burton-movies-michael-keaton-tim-burton-halloween-gif-2448417825086532941

[tropic rock]

Thanks Zakk. Merged.

[dreamy hinge]

I wish there was some sane way to have a "core" menu item that could just tell main to do something. main has much better granularity of spinner throttling

[warm oasis]

Should someone just put the MiSTer Kun Jag BIOS in the core release folder in GitHub if we are going with that one?

May be worth a line at the bottom of the readme stating the BIOS code is open sourced

[ashen spoke]

Hey, your call but “appears to be okay” is still dicey to me.

No reason not to continue asking people to acquire their own bios or rely on update_all which is external to the MiSTer project.

[warm oasis]

I think in this instance it is fine, as they have explicitly open sourced the code including the BIOS code, which has been adapted to add the MiSTer Kun. Worst case scenario is Hasbro somehow find out, interpret their open sourcing differently somehow, and request it be removed from the GitHub, none of which seems likely.

We do bundle open sourced BIOS with other cores already so this isn't a new thing.

I guess someone could write to Hasbro asking them to confirm the open source status and if it includes the Jag (and Jag CD BIOS) but if you do get a response it will almost certainly be from someone who doesn't understand what is being ask and the actual status, and probably doesn't even know what a Jaguar is and that they own it.

[uncut atlas]

if the copyright holder asks us to remove it we will

[ashen spoke]

Whoever that is these days

[warm oasis]

Hasbro I think

[mental briar]

everything i have searched up about it says that they public domain'ed it in 99

[warm oasis]

As an aside it would be a good wider retro community project to write to the various copyright holders for old systems and ask if they will publicly open source them. For example I can't imagine Casio care about the Loopy, or VTech the Socrates and CreatiVision. Would be good PR for them if nothing else.

[mental briar]

the problem is that anything like that would likely require a lawyer to sign off on, and that probably just isn't worth their time

[warm oasis]

Unless they saw it as good PR

[dreamy hinge]

even more annoying, it requires someone that can determine if they used any external source code they licensed and how to deal with that

[mental briar]

Would be amusing to see if anyone at modern Casio even knew what the loopy was

[ashen spoke]

All of this will continue to be in legal limbo because no money can be made from it and therefore no one will want to spend the money to ascertain who actually owns the rights.

[dreamy hinge]

maybe we'd get lucky and they'd just pull a winamp and release source code with a bunch of licensed libraries

[warm oasis]

With Casio Loopy , the American lady Rachael who has best documented the system actually went to the Casio HQ in Japan and talked to people there about the system. She wrote about it, and they were utterly baffled anyone cared and dug out all the Loopy stuff they had in a cupboard and gave it all to her

[ashen spoke]

I would do the same honestly.

“You care about this old stuff that no one here knows about and our grandpas worked on? You deserve this more than us!”

[warm oasis]

I might ping her an email and see if she is interested in asking them about it, since she has contacts there already and they clearly don't care. With these old systems just being able to distribute the BIOS files without fear of getting a copyright strike would be a nice thing.

If you don't ask you don't get.

[dreamy hinge]

this is where you find out they dont' have any of the code

[warm oasis]

Yeah, almost certainly the code for these things is long gone, but being able to distribute BIOS would be a benefit if nothing else.

[stone vault]

or money to pay the lawyer to sign off on it for "good will" unfortunately.

[warm oasis]

I can't imagine the access to lawyers would be an issue, these are all big companies with stacked internal legal teams.

When I have been involved in open sourcing discussions at different jobs, the main issue is getting all the right people in a room so people know what the ask is and if there are any potential risks, and what the effort is.

The legal side is firing off Jenny or whoever in legal an email, then waiting days for the "Sorry, been busy! Looking at this now, I have some questions..."

Will be different in different firms obviously, but it is always a lot more mundane than you might expect

[tawny warren]

i work in a large company and "access" to lawyers isn't a problem, it's getting them to do anything at any speed where i'd not be dying of old age by the time they're done

[ashen spoke]

TRUUUUUE

[tawny warren]

i work in technical pre-sales so whenever the word "legal" or "lawyer" comes up i'm like, um.. how about we do something else or approach this in a different way. Because as soon as we engage legal, the deal is dead.

[uncut atlas]

with copyright violations, to do more than request removal you have to demonstrate harm generally

there's no real legal case for most ancient bioses that are freely available with a google search causing harm so it's really just a matter of taking it down if they ask

and my understanding is that they said all the jag stuff is free to use

so it's not even that, it's not a bad faith situation

[warm oasis]

Yeah, we are risk adverse with stuff like distribution of BIOS files, and it is good to play safe, but at the day all the old system bios files (and game ROMs) are sitting there on archive, and easy to find in Google, and none of these big companies seem to care.

It is a weird dance that we all do.

[ashen spoke]

Rather do a weird dance and have no concerns

plus the weird dance is cool

get to be all vague and h igh and mighty about it

"no no, we don't distribute that riff raff here"

[gentle bobcat]

Speaking of archive.org, they have been going through quite a bit of litigation both related to print/digital books and, I think, software too. I believe they have lost most of them... so I forsee most of the ROMs being taken down in the not-too-distant future.

[fringe gazelle]

I have to wonder...

Who actually 'owns' the Jaguar stuff now?

IP/rights

Huh...

https://www.atariage.com/Jaguar/archives/HasbroRights.html

Public Domain declaration?

So does that mean the BIOS files can be legally exchanged?

[uncut atlas]

Beverly, MA (May 14, 1999) - Leading entertainment software publisher, Hasbro Interactive announced today it has released all rights that it may have to the vintage Atari hardware platform, the Jaguar.

Hasbro Interactive acquired rights to many Atari properties, including the legendary Centipede, Missile Command, and Pong games, in a March 1998 acquisition from JTS Corporation.

This announcement will allow software developers to create and publish software for the Jaguar system without having to obtain a licensing agreement with Hasbro Interactive for such platform development. Hasbro Interactive cautioned, however, that the developers should not use the Atari trademark or logo in connection with their games or present the games as authorized or approved by Hasbro Interactive.

"Hasbro Interactive is strictly focused on developing and publishing entertainment software for the PC and the next generation game consoles," said Richard Cleveland, Head of Marketing for Hasbro Interactive's Atari Business Unit. "We realize there is a passionate audience of diehard Atari fans who want to keep the Jaguar system alive, and we don't want to prevent them from doing that. We will not interfere with the efforts of software developers to create software for the Jaguar system."

Hasbro Interactive, Inc. is a leading all-family interactive games publisher, formed in 1995 to bring to life on the computer the deep library of toy and board games of parent company, Hasbro, Inc. (ASE:HAS). Hasbro Interactive has expanded its charter to include original and licensed games for the PC, the Playstation(R) and Nintendo(R) 64 game consoles and for multi-player gaming over the internet. Headquartered in Beverly, Massachusetts, Hasbro Interactive has offices in the U.K., France, Germany, Japan and Canada. For more information, visit the Hasbro Interactive Web site at http://www.hasbro-interactive.com.

Keeping the jaguar system alive

(against my better judgement)

anyway I feel like that's an extremely clear statement that they absolute do not give a shit

[ashen spoke]

Nice, that means I own it now

[uncut atlas]

is the aspect ratio of a hardware jaguar really funky?

[warm oasis]

I thought it was standard, although there are PAL and NTSC models if that plays into it

Hmm, meandering conversation here about it

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/238563-screen-resolution-of-jaguar-games/

[slender umbra]

how do i get access to the jaguar core to download?

[warm oasis]

Check the pins

[slender umbra]

do i need to be patereon to get the link?

[mental briar]

no, but you need to have the cycle accurate role. check the Channels and Roles at the top of the channel list. Click "I want it all" and that will give you access to the test-builds channel

(nothing here is locked behind patreon or any other payment link)

[slender umbra]

sorry i cant see the i want it all option

are we talking about this channel or the mister channel?

ok found it

thanks

how do install the core? are there instructions?

[mental briar]

The core (.rbf file) goes into /media/fat/_Console. Make sure you grab the right one (if you have one stick of ram, grab the single ram build - 2 can use the dual ram). Check the pins here for the bios. That will go in /media/fat/games/Jaguar. Games go in that directory as well.

[slender umbra]

great thanks!

[dusk slate]

A new member of the Jaguar collective! 🫡

[ashen spoke]

I’m so sorry!

[slender umbra]

got it working thanks!

[ashen spoke]

Sorry!

I’m kidding, I unironically love this core lol.

[fresh urchin]

Looks like you can play doom with music now (supposedly a bit slower) https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/149966-jagdoomex/

[stone vault]

That's pretty cool

[thorny swift]

Def could use the music

[warm oasis]

Anyone tried it on the core yet?

[mental briar]

It's on my list for today

[mental briar]

It "works" but all of the audio drives the struggle bus. Very jumpy/garbly until it gets loaded into memory, then it's fine until a new sound has to be loaded

[warm oasis]

That's interesting, I wonder how it holds up playing off a flash cart on real hardware

[mental briar]

yeah, I wish I could test that.

If someone here wants to test that, I know a guy with the rom

[warm oasis]

Would be good to know who here does have an OG Jaguar and a flash cart, would be very helpful for verifying issues

[gentle bobcat]

If you have trouble, I also have a physical Jag with GameDrive... but I'm not that keen to dig it out.

[frosty oracle]

I have a jaguar but no flash cart unfortunately.

[mental briar]

Yeah, I’m in the same boat

Someone here has one hooked up. Rancid maybe? I’d have to scroll up and look

[tall musk]

I have a Jaguar and a flash cart, and it can easily be hooked up.

HMU

[mental briar]

I knew we'd pull you in eventually

https://tenor.com/bsVJw.gif

[mental briar]

Assuming my patched rom is good, the game drive + original hardware sounds exactly the same

[thin sky]

I have a physical jag, what are we doing

the doom thing?

@mental briar DM me whatcha got and I'll go test it tonight

[mental briar]

Tim tested it but you're welcome to test it too if you want

[thin sky]

I see how it is

[mental briar]

oh i wouldn't deprive someone of this

jag doom is love

[warm oasis]

Ah, so it behaves exactly the same on the core as it does on original hardware?

[thin sky]

Shoot it over to me and i'll see

[mental briar]

I sent you a dm 20 minutes ago 😉

[thin sky]

Sorry was playing some VR 🙂

Assuming should test with the dual ram mister build?

[mental briar]

I tested on dual ram

But I think it should be the same on real hardware

It’s kind of sad. It’s trying so hard to play the music and the other sound effects

[fresh urchin]

Person also worked on 32x resurrection and that project worked miracles.

[mental briar]

yeah, it's entirely possible that I patched the rom wrong

or the rom it wanted wasn't the one I had

[mental briar]

Looks like I was using the wrong rom. I need to find Doom - Evil Unleashed (1994).j64

[ashen spoke]

is that different from regular DOOM on the Jaguar?

[mental briar]

I have no idea. I can't find anything that mentions it outside of that forum post

if you search for that file name, that forum post is literally the only hit.

[frosty oracle]

Have you found it?

[mental briar]

nah dude. that's the only reference of that particular file name

[frosty oracle]

I've checked my usual places (My Cupboard wink wink)

And I've only saw 2 other mentions of that filename. Not sure if it's j64

[mental briar]

It does seem like jag doom might have ben called "Doom - Evil Unleashed" in some regions?

maybe?

[frosty oracle]

Hm, not sure. Unfortunately there isn't a region listed

Doom - Evil Unleashed.zip

That's the only thing I've found

Il send you a dm

[gleaming echo]

I am new to Jaguar, is CD functionality working on the core?

[tranquil cape]

nope - may not be feasible either

[glad dome]

How is the core game compatibility using dual ram? Most games working now? I was waiting for an official release but if things are good now I might start exploring the library.

[tranquil cape]

Very good! Single ram is good too - just a little more slowdown.

[tropic rock]

I am reasonably certain CD is feasible.

[ashen spoke]

By the power of GreyRogue!
He has the powwwwwwaaaah!

[glad flame]

Big day for Baldies fans.

[ashen spoke]

That CD exclusive?

[glad flame]

It was originally for the Atari Jaguar CD, but was ported later to other systems.

[ashen spoke]

Oh nice, I’ll have to add it to my JaguarCD folder.

[mental briar]

Grey's in the lab!

[gentle bobcat]

@tropic rock - So, is that a screenshot you took with a development core that can boot a CD game? If so, how about that Virtual Light Machine?

[gentle bobcat]

@GreyRogue - Well, you know where to find testers. 🙂

[tropic rock]

It is unstable and not user friendly right now

[gentle bobcat]

@tropic rock - What were you playing? What form did the audio CD take? I was trying to figure out how to convert audio CDs into a single file and I guess dd grab should work?

[tropic rock]

Right now I have to manually load bin files. It would be nice if mister main had a generic cd function I could use, but they are all core specific. I have never compiled it before so that is something that needs to be done still. My understanding is cdi is the generally accepted format for JagCD.

[gentle bobcat]

Just to clarify, I'm differentiating between a game CD and an audio CD. Honestly, I don't know much about the technical differences. While I've ripped audio CDs to various audio codec files, I've not really tried to create a single image file. I wonder if any of the other cores that support cdrom image files offer some sort of audio CD playback? Probably not or I think I would have heard of it. I'm not sure what original hardware might have offered that? PSX? Saturn? MegaCD? TurboCD? CDi definitely did.

(almost forgot NeoGeo CD)

[sterile moss]

Pretty sure PSX does, bin/cue of an audio cd

Or CHD, so technically FLAC on mister 🙂

[tropic rock]

JagCD uses only 2-session audio cds. The game data is actually coded like audio data in the second session. It can play audio from single session cds and cdg (karoeke) cds.

Any method getting it to the core would work, but like I said, that code in mister main is not coded yet.

Hence why I have to manually load bin files for the data and binary cue files for the TOC.

[gentle bobcat]

Thanks for sharing the info. Very informative.

Being fairly ignorant about MiSTer Main and the "framework", the concept I've had of it is that the framework provides common features needed/used by most all cores. Given there are a number of cores that support optical discs, I wonder if common code for optical discs would be beneficial for current and future cores... or if the formats used by the various systems are different enough that they need their own unique implementations. I know some folks see the MiSTer framework as potentially bloated (maybe not a preferred word) and provide their own, alternative framework.

[dapper lava]

I'd die for VLM with arbitrary audio input. I just want the visualizer era back.

[gentle bobcat]

I do loves me some VLM but I'd not use that phrase.

[mental briar]

yeah, that's what grey is saying, I think. All the CD cores currently have to add their own CD reading logic to main. I think that means that, until Grey does a PR for the cd logic in main, he will have to cook a custom main for this

It's what we had to do for CDI

[tropic rock]

Pretty much. Looking through the cores most do copy protection or something. This needs only generic cd functiins to read the TOC and spit out generic audio data like any standard cd player.

[sterile moss]

looks like redump are in bin/cue, htgdb is jcd format (for gamedrive)

[tropic rock]

The VLM part is already pretty stable as is. It is just not user friendly to get data to it.

[gentle bobcat]

I know that DVD video playback has a number of patent/royalty related issues (I'd love to be wrong about that), but audio CDs have been out for so long that hopefully there aren't any non-technical issues blocking support.

[tropic rock]

I think all the needed dvd patents expired a couple years ago.

[sterile moss]

nice

[gentle bobcat]

I know Atari was pretty stoked back in the day by supporting some proprietary variation of the avi format... can't seem to remember the name of the codec.... but I would also imagine that's post-patent as well.

[tropic rock]

I think most of the dvd stuff was done by 2018.

[gentle bobcat]

I think Raspberry Pi might still charge for hardware accelerated h264 / h265 support... but neither of those are used in DVDs... strictly mpeg I believe.

[tropic rock]

Google says the trademark stuff just lapsed.

mpeg2

[gentle bobcat]

cinepak I think was the codec Atari was pushing.

[tropic rock]

AI Overview
Learn more
The DVD Format/Logo License, including the DVD-Video specification, expired on December 31, 2024. The DVD Forum, which created the specification, terminated the licensing program on the same date.

cinepak is correct. Have a document about it open in front of me.

But it doesnt really matter for data loading on the core. It is still on the disk as audio data.

[gentle bobcat]

From what I've read about the JagCD, I don't think it had any added functionality nor any special compression/encode/decode hardware... so I assume the software (game CDs and VLM) provides all the needed support... and there would NOT need to be any FPGA implementation for JagCD support?

I believe you've addressed that 2-3 times already (they're all audio CDs with either 1 or 2 sessions)... but I'm slow. 🙂

[tropic rock]

There is nothing complicated in butch. It just sends/recieves commands to the CD. Data can be read from a small fifo (I think it is 16x64bytes) or sent over i2s directly to jerry. There are some interrupt handlers and registers. The CD can run in single or double speed.

It also has some subcode handling for the TOC and CDG support

Anything complicated done with the data is done by tom or jerry

[gentle bobcat]

Well, I'm here for all the moral support I can muster. If there are any additional methods of support you can recommend, I'll consider them.

[tropic rock]

VLM loads a small program into jerry to do fourier-like analysis on the data. Most of the cinepak stuff is done by tom.

[gentle bobcat]

I think it is kinda sad that none of the Jaguar core devs/contributors have any original hardware. For Kitrinx, I think they prefer it that way. 🙂

[uncut atlas]

i'd pour a milkshake on it

[gentle bobcat]

@tropic rock - Would you be interested in any original hardware?

@uncut atlas - But then you'd not get to drink your milkshake.

[uncut atlas]

It's sad, but sometimes sacrifices need to be made

[gentle bobcat]

I feel you.

[tropic rock]

I don't think I need hardware at this point.

[gentle bobcat]

Well, if that changes, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

I don't have a JagCD and those things cost more than most cars I've owned. But I do have an original Jaguar that I bought new when it was in the retail pipeline.

[tropic rock]

What model is it? Do you have the early toshiba version or the later motorola?

[gentle bobcat]

How do I tell? Serial number?

[tropic rock]

I think they are labelled k or m

[gentle bobcat]

(me goes and grabs it from the closet)

[tropic rock]

To be certain you have to open and look at the chips, but I think if it is an m it is motorola

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/209274-jaguar-bios-revisions/

[gentle bobcat]

Serial number starts with a K

[tropic rock]

Do you have a gamedrive?

[gentle bobcat]

yes.

And 17 original carts.

[tropic rock]

I have wanted to know if this gives different results on k vs m

No rush though

Mostly just curious

[gentle bobcat]

I'll download the file now and likely find time to hook up the system sometime tomorrow.

I can just copy the .rom file to the GameDrive and it'll show up in the menu? I haven't used the GameDrive in a while.

(me plugs in the GameDrive microSD card into dowdle's laptop)

[tropic rock]

I assume. Never seen/used one myself. Just prints a few numbers

[gentle bobcat]

I copied the file to the folder with cart roms in it. While you are here now... I'll go hook it up and see if it'll provide something.

I'm probably way behind on GameDrive firmware as I've never gotten JagCD games to work.

BRB

Hey that worked.

I think someone was wanting a Doom patched game tested yesterday? Ya'll get that all figured out? If not, I'm ready to try it.

I think the GameDrive said something about a firmware update when it first turned on but it went by so fast no way I could fully perceive it.

Now to attempt a GameDrive firmware update...

[mental briar]

I'm pretty sure I either have the wrong rom or it doesn't work as good as they say it does

[gentle bobcat]

Got the GameDrive firmware update done. I was about 6 versions behind. Still won't play any of the JagCD files I have but maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Anyhoo... off topic.

But if the MiSTer FPGA Jaguar core got support for JagCD, it'd be the first time I've played in any JagCD games since about 1996 when I briefly owned a JagCD unit.

I think I only had access to the 3 or 4 titles it packed in... so the rest of the small CD library, I've never played before. Not missing much I'm guessing but hey, I'm sure it'd be good for some brief enjoyment.

I've tried to play JagCD games with BigPEmu but for some reason that doesn't work for me. I did get the VLM working in BigPEmu. I'm using the Linux build of BigPEmu... so again, maybe I'm doing it wrong.

[dreamy hinge]

there's no common cdrom code in main because...no one did it. the cores often receive data differently so there will always be some differences. there's probably some value in unifying the CUE parsers but that risks breaking a bunch of cores and you're going to be in a lonnnng cycle of discovering little weird things each core did and having to compenstate for it

the chd parser/reader is common tho

also I see there are redumps of jag cd games. I would encourage you to see if those work

[urban mango]

I have a GameDrive - IIRC it was a bit of hassle getting the cd images to work, but it’s been a while. One quirk was that they need to be contiguous files so you had to start with a blank sd card, copy the cd images on first, then everything else.

[ashen spoke]

wat

[warm oasis]

Great to see signs of life on Jag CD! What will the BIOS need to be named as GR?

[tawny warren]

i think he is right? i'm not up to date on license fees but they're there for h246 / h265

i think its like patent fees or something not necessarily license fees

[ashen spoke]

Oh sorry I wasn’t doubting him, I was just surprised lol. I had no idea that was a thing.

[tawny warren]

yeah i'm pretty sure it spurred on vp9 as a free alternative but unfortunatley it didn't get the adoption

[sterile moss]

The fee was for mpeg2 hw decoding on older pi models, h264/5 is enabled as default

[outer veldt]

Would like to see JagCD. one game - vidgrid

[thorny swift]

Cd eh. Fun

[mental briar]

Soon™

I'll hit the bacon/PCN/Lu button if it I see it before y'all

[thin sky]

@mental briar - Man finally got around to testing out Doom, sorry about delay life was lifeing. It is the same on both Mister and OG hardware, sounds like shit and runs like it as well. Let me know if you wnat a video.

[mental briar]

Nah, I think it’s clear I either picked the wrong rom or it’s garbo. Either way, the fact it runs the same on both is 👍

[ashen spoke]

lmao awesome

[warm oasis]

Incidentally there has been an unlabeled Jag CD tab on the testing sheet in anticipation of support being added

[dusk slate]

It sounds rancid!|| ||

[mental briar]

https://tenor.com/vAcs.gif

[thin sky]

I see what you did there

[uncut atlas]

that's what I got when I updated the cpu to a different model of 68k

[grizzled mantle]

Not immediately MiSTer related, but cool bits of info on Jag VR: https://x.com/mindthreat/status/1904735041709642197

🔺MindThreat🔺 (@mindthreat) on X

Here are the internals of the Atari Jaguar VR prototype with dual IR sensors for tracking. Insanely compact for what it was for an early 90s HMD!

X · Mar 26, 2025, 3:19 AM

[stone vault]

That's pretty wild

I was just reading about the SEGA VR add on for the Genesis the other day.

[ashen spoke]

I had an old coworker who worked on that project as part of their PR team

[stone vault]

It seemed really promising. It probably would've flopped since it was gonna cost $200 though.

[gentle bobcat]

I believe Missile Command 3D works with that.

[kind blade]

Yup

[glossy iron]

It does. Played it in 2007

But it's a different rom called missile command VR

[warm oasis]

Has this Jag VR thing been emulated?

[gleaming echo]

I think with todays possibilities, it should be doable to rebuild/emulate/simulate both JAG and SEGA VR

[glossy iron]

Yes. If you have a PC VR headset you can use it with the BigPemu Jaguar emulator. The emu supports jaguar VR

The same Dev also wrote a genesis VR emulator

[warm oasis]

Ah, interesting

[lime comet]

Quick question: Someone knows what delay, type and index should be used for Jaguar .mgl files?

[ashen spoke]

Uhhhh I do but I’m not at home lol

[lime comet]

No problem! I can wait 😏

[ashen spoke]

    <rbf>_Console/Jaguar</rbf>
    <file delay="1" type="f" index="1" path="/media/fat/games/Jaguar/game.j64"/>
</mistergamedescription>```

[lime comet]

Thanks!

[dusk slate]

Dang it Robby, you're not supposed to be helpful!

[stone vault]

What is nuked?

This more April fools stuff? I need to make a point to just stay off the Internet on this day

[keen zealot]

Kitrinx updated the core with Nuked 68000 version, the core works faster now.

(That's a real core update, NOT an April's Fools)

[fallow salmon]

you're going to have to post it again tomorrow if you want anyone to test it i suspect

[stone vault]

Yeah someone posted a 3DO test core in test builds. Not even gonna waste my time

[keen zealot]

That's why I don't like April's Fools, I'm not here to do some bad jokes, but to work and share.

[stone vault]

Thank you for that

I'll download your core then but I swear if it's a joke... 😂

Run the core and lemon party appears on my MiSTer

(if you know you know, if you don't know...you'll regret googling it) 😂

[keen zealot]

I fear to understand.

[stone vault]

Hahaha trust me if you don't know you're better off never knowing 😂

A friend of mine and I used to disguise links all the time and get each other with it 😂

It probably doesn't even exist anymore

Nope nevermind the site still exists lol how has that lasted like 25 years?? 😂

[mental briar]

OOOOOO

@thorny swift @small sail @cunning wyvern Not april fools

[thorny swift]

fancy but holy shit am I backed up with content this week

ill take a look tomorrow for the weekend. But my videos on topical shit is basically full through Sunday

lost F Zero data sound, CvS 2 2001 translations, lost Mega Man Legends game found and translated, etc etc

[small sail]

Thank you as always.

[mental briar]

ping @warm oasis so he knows to put it in the WIP depot

[uncut atlas]

oh you built my code

[keen zealot]

Just wanted to test it a little bit.

Seems to work faster on Rayman at least.

[uncut atlas]

the netlist based 68k has some extra signals that are more helpful with a netlist-based jag simulation, and it's more idomatic too

it matches the real jag's HWInfo3 pretty much exactly

however it's not compatible with the Turbo option

so that had to be removed

there's currently one frustrating mystery

// FIXME: ee_di should be e_dbus[0]. The schematic very clearly shows that the eternal bus is
// connected to the cart slot and thus the EEPROM. However, when the eeprom's address is put onto
// the address bus to trigger jerry's GPIO pins, it triggers tom to disconnect the external bus. I'm
// uncertain how this worked on a real system, but I can only guess there was some kind of delay in
// the eeprom's latching of DI.
assign ee_di = dbus[0];

[keen zealot]

I've also seen the image on Rayman seems to be off-centered quite a bit on my LCD screens, but not on other games (like Kasumi Ninja and AvP).
Like, the image is stuck in the bottom right, with black bands on the left and top.
Is it something already known ?

[uncut atlas]

not something i'm aware of. is it actually a bug or just how it worked?

I know there's some hackery for the sake of the DV people

[keen zealot]

I will check later, thanks for the replies (and confirming that's not an April's Fools joke).

[uncut atlas]

I don't see the issue with rayman

This is from a real HW jag:

// H/W NTSC:
// 68000: 2101   GPU Internal: 10545   GPU External: 11057

vs the nuked cpu on mister:

dow did one recently too #1055574003810578503 message

it's slightly random on the latter numbers, so im going to say that's effectively perfect

[dusk slate]

Need to use a laxative to clear that backup. Too much VT cheese I suspect! 🧀

[thorny swift]

🤣 some weeks nothing happens. Other weeks everything happens

[dusk slate]

Dang, a serious answer. It really is April Fools Day!

[keen zealot]

On my 4/3 LCD TV screens.

No change with the fullscreen and crop options.

[mental briar]

Zet, is that present in other builds? I know a couple of the games are not centered properly

[keen zealot]

I need to check that within the next couple of hours.
Always been like that on the Single RAM core, at least.

[fleet helm]

i knew it was a joke but tried it anyway. its funny

[uncut atlas]

my guess is that's just how that game renders and anticipated the low quality of CRT displays to hide it

if someone has a chance to compare to real hardware it would be good though

[warm oasis]

Is there much else in the new code/core? Does this have spinner support?

[tranquil cape]

Image looks down and to the right on my CRT too

Tempest 2k feels much better on the new core (single ram)

[uncut atlas]

the off center is probably just some minor stuff from how we're diging out the blanks

kinda low priority

[keen zealot]

There are already so much games to do on the MiSTer anyway.

[tranquil cape]

For sure - Just wanted to show an example on a TV. These updates are awesome!

[mental briar]

Cybermorph now boots consistently. Flip out still needs AVP loaded first before it boots

Ok, that seems to be the only difference. Updated the testing page

[uncut atlas]

what is flip out?

homebrew?

[mental briar]

I don't know. It's in the pack on archive in the normal folder (but there are some homebrew titles in there too)

Rayman crop is identical between cores

[uncut atlas]

the avp needing to be loaded before thing is interesting

I wonder if it's a register or ram that is being assumed to default a certain way

[mental briar]

Same thing if you want sound in Hyper Force - have to load AVP first

It's not just AVP though - iirc, some of the other big games would work too

[uncut atlas]

hmm

well, that's almost definitely something that defaults to a certain something on real hardware

like RAM that maybe defaults to FF or something

could be some jerry registers

the bootrom initializes a lot of stuff

[mental briar]

I assume single ram testing still isn't helpful, yeah? Focus is still dual

[regal tapir]

I'm doing some quick tests here and Attack on the Mutant Penguins still doesn't work after the character select screen. Notice some more slowdowns in some games like Kasumi Ninja, Tempest, Avp and Atari Karts. Pitfall runs way worst than previous build. Singel ram here, comparing with previous Turbo cpu speed

[tropic rock]

I would expect minor variations of these values when the dram refresh cycles happen. Also K (early) vs M (late) versions I think are likely to have minor variations.

[uncut atlas]

yeh, but the 68k cycles seem pretty consistent at 2101

[tropic rock]

I agree that timing looks to be in the "correct" zone now for dual ram.

[mental briar]

Single ram is still going to be rough - focus is on getting dual ram working 100% at the moment. I think the plan is to optimize single ram (as best they can) once Jaguar CD is out the door

[regal tapir]

Got it. Good to know.

[mental briar]

But I wonder if Atari karts still has the empty kart bug for me...

[uncut atlas]

I didnt look at single ram numbers at all

[mental briar]

The car is still empty - rip duck

[glossy iron]

Flip out was a normal 1995 retail release

[mental briar]

Normal doing a lot of work in that sentence

[ashen spoke]

Ok cool, updated pins to point to Zet’s new cores

[broken hound]

I love the new Jaguar core. Is there a reason that sometimes cores are only posted in the threads here and not on #test-builds or #unstable-nightlies? It would be nice to have all cores available on those two channels. I constantly feel like I am missing something.

[mental briar]

unstable nightlies means they are part of the unstable repo, and not all devs want to put their cores there right away. I think this build didn't show up in test builds because Zet built it and I don't know if he has access to post there

[broken hound]

I see so it is a permission issue. I get it.

[mental briar]

I could be wrong - just a guess

I think grey and Kit are reluctant to put it in the unstable repo because then more people will play Jaguar games...

[ashen spoke]

It’s up to the core devs. This is why I make pins for channels, to help people keep on top of builds.

[keen zealot]

I don't have permission.
And these are just a few cores I build from time to time, when I see something interesting to share.
After a few quick checks on my systems, I made sure nothing was broken.

[mental briar]

Totally. And we appreciate it :). I figured that’s why it hadn’t made it to #test-builds

[twilit wave]

Are there people here who can get T2K working with single SDRAM? For the longest time every time I've run it I just get a black screen with music. No change with this latest core.

[grizzled bloom]

Are spinner controls supported in tempest? I saw that being mentioned once. Is that what the mouse control is?

[dreamy hinge]

spinner is supported in tempest

go to settings screen, then open core menu and use the "P1+P2 Pause"

that'll enable the secret menu. go in it and set controller 1 to rotary

[mental briar]

Do any games work?

[grizzled bloom]

Oh no wonder I never saw it. Thank you!

[grizzled bloom]

It works for me.

[mental briar]

Same

[grizzled bloom]

I’ve tried two different mice (trackballs, could be the issue) and every time I move the ball it resets back to the title menu in tempest

Or sometimes the game will just go black, depending on the position of the ball. Very strange behaviour

Yeah it just acts erratic in whichever port I set the mouse to, or how fast I set the spinner speed to.

[twilit wave]

I have had a few working, with the pre-nuked core dated 250123 I was able to play Super Burnout, Power Drive and Wolfenstein without (obvious) issue and boot a few others (NBA Jam had graphical glitches I think) but nothing from Tempest 2000. I wonder if it's timing sensitive like that certain era of Saturn unstable cores were, where only the high quality SDRAM modules could boot up titles like Sega Rally.

[brittle zinc]

T2K has worked for me with pretty much every build. I've got a taki de10 and ram if that makes any difference but think most have had it working more than any other game

[urban mango]

Yeah I tested the same ROM on hardware, and currently the SFX are pretty glitchy unless you turn the music off.

[mental briar]

On the nuked core, do you get the jaguar bios screen?

Or is it a black screen when you load the core?

[thorny swift]

Just captured for a vid. Seems to def be faster. Had zero issues loading any games

[urban mango]

Did a quick comparison of Hardware to Core for the picture position.
Core is slightly further right for me.
Apologies for the rough photography

Performance of T2K seems comparable core vs hardware

[mental briar]

If you have it set up still, can you check arena football?

the crop on that seemed real bad

[urban mango]

Sure. The position does look different to Rayman, both on HW and Core but still slightly further right in core

[keen zealot]

Like I said yesterday.

I was intrigued.

[mental briar]

weird, the crop is the same (or very similar) core to core, though - I looked at that yesterday

[graceful sierra]

The first one is single core right ?

[keen zealot]

Right.

[twilit wave]

I get what I assume is the BIOS screen... just a Jaguar splash with a red static background. And booting all games looks to show the Jaguar startup (spinning cube, off-key orchestral stab)

[mental briar]

and then nothing?

[halcyon surge]

Is the latest Nuke the pinned one?

[glad blade]

Just saw the video @thorny swift don't know how you produce so much so quickly

Internet busiest video game nerd. Anthony fantano's got nothing on you

[thorny swift]

haha I like to keep busy

[glad blade]

Got to try the core myself last night

[thorny swift]

I am working on more stuff as I type this

[glad blade]

I only had my single core unit set up at the moment but everyone can rest easy knowing NBA jam looked fine

Side note

Ridge racer on switch 2

Unrelated

Just im excited

Speaking of being busy, look forward to seeing coverage on that one, aside from literally everything else

[keen zealot]

Yes.

[thorny swift]

haha I love that Ridge Racer managed to dig itself out of its grave to be ANOTHER system's launch title

just exported a Switch 2 vid for 4....talking about game key cards

[thorny swift]

I cant be CERTAIN in the video but the fact Nintendo does not write "AND YOU CAN GIVE YOUR KEY CARD TO A FRIEND FOR THEM TO PLAY" 100% sounds like they've locked that shit down at the account level

like you have kids @ashen spoke if you buy ONE key card game...and you have two kids with two Switch 2's...is that shit portable? or is it DRM'd into anti-consumer insanity

plus the preservation factor

wait...this is Jaguar chat not share media 🤣 ignore me

[glad blade]

Everything I've seen points to switch 2 and game cards being the end of physical game collecting on Nintendo platforms

Sorry

I got things off topic in here

I'm just hyped on many fronts today

That being said, jaguar was among my many distractions last night and this morning

As I'm literally heading out the door for cuba, lol

I can't stop myself

Gotta finish packing but I keep eyeing discord for fresh sores

https://tenor.com/view/you-got-any-gif-26357631

[ashen spoke]

I can run it down if you like but this is what it means.

Game Key Cards is Nintendo trying to add “value” to games that are download only. So instead of an empty box now, it’ll include a game card at the smallest file size.

Honestly it’s no different than how a game ships for the PS5/XB1 with a massive day one patch. People are reading too much into it or forgetting that a lot of modern AAA games are basically just patch downloaded on a disc now anyways.

As for Game Sharing, I’m expecting it to function like a regular physical game where you just lend the game to a friend and they have to download the whole thing and have the game card inserted in order to play. Since it’s not fully digital, you won’t be able to lend the game digitally to a friend, you’ll need to give them the game card.

[thorny swift]

but the fact Nintendo hasnt SAID its "portable"...makes me feel like chicanery is afoot

their page on it does NOT say that, and the omission feels like the answer. But who knows...fun vid at least to make

[ashen spoke]

Yeah definitely, I think speculation is warranted because it needs to be talked about and scrutinized.

Nintendo is in hubris mode lol

[thorny swift]

Nintendo has created that sentiment around them to expect the least consumer friendly solution possible

[ashen spoke]

I think it depends on perspective but I do agree that’s the general sentiment. I think they’re very pro consumer since they still are sticking to physical and making big commitments to it with their new game card manufacturing.

The single card multiple systems is great to have for families.

I also think the digital game sharing is a great new addition.

But also I may not fully understand the options that Sony or Microsoft give me tbh

As a comparison point

Man sorry this is off tooic

[thorny swift]

haha yeah it is...but its Jaguar chat lol

[ashen spoke]

I know I’m definitely in the minority here on being optimistic with Nintendo and clearly I’m biased. But I think the backlash is great honestly, even if I don’t agree with all of it, I think it’s awesome that people are taking notice and speaking out about decisions they don’t like.

[thorny swift]

for me its just the key cards; price? game price? The market will decide if that can be tolerated or if sales are flat

I will say though their pricing is haphazard; new DK platformer $10 cheaper than re-releases of Switch games? Makes no sense

[ashen spoke]

I know why all that is and it’s really dumb

[thorny swift]

Nintendo looks foolish getting $80 for a game that started on Wii U while asking $70 for a ground up Switch 2 exclusive developed game

DK likes the key cards though lol

[ashen spoke]

That’s a good thumbnail lol

[thorny swift]

dont lick it DK...its bitter!

[ashen spoke]

MK World has been in development for a CRAZY long time and Nintendo has spent a lot of money on it to make sure it’s the killer Switch 2 app

[thorny swift]

I was nice in the vid...basically said "if the key cards are portable...cool. Every time I put a 2TB CFExpress card in my camera I am inserting a $500 bill....so storage is expensive compared to blu ray"

[ashen spoke]

So they hiked the price up accordingly

That’s it

[mental briar]

As with everything else, software piracy will be the only way to guarantee preservation

[ashen spoke]

The average consumer doesn’t know or care how much they spent to make it or how long it’s been in development. They just see the game being $10 more than everything else and going “why?”

[thorny swift]

but I do want to know what happens when the servers shut off / if that key is tied to the account and THAT Switch. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo says "oh you lost your Switch 2? Sorry you need to buy a new key card"

[ashen spoke]

Well we have history of that happening. You lose your game if you didn’t back it up locally.

[thorny swift]

the average consumer has their head so far up their ass they could check the backs of their molars for cavities

[mental briar]

I just send this to anyone who is complaining - tbh, this price hike should have happened long ago, Microsoft and Sony are just cowards

[thorny swift]

nobody wants to pay. I tell people my day rate and they think I am committing armed robbery of a bank

[mental briar]

they aren’t paying devs 30% less than they did in 2005, they shouldn’t charge 30% less either

[thorny swift]

extra digits have been added to my day rate and project rate recently because the market can handle it and Ive gotta eat

[stone vault]

I'm not paying more money for Nintendo games that really isn't that much different than the prior two generations

[mental briar]

Thank you for your feedback

[thorny swift]

we do know and I am sure @ashen spoke can attest...dev wages are NOT keeping up with "real" inflationary issues in the world

[mental briar]

not at all

[ashen spoke]

yeah game prices haven’t matched inflation in a realistic manner

[mental briar]

so you want more spider-man 2 level games, you have to start charging more

[ashen spoke]

No they are not

[mental briar]

and it should have been a gradual increase

but it wasn’t so here we are

[thorny swift]

now if we find out Nintendo is charging MORE while also paying some of the worst salaries in the industry (which they are)...then it stinks of shit

[mental briar]

frankly, if there is a company that can get away with it, it’s nintendo.

[stone vault]

Of course they'll get away with it

They always di

[ashen spoke]

not with Wii U they did lolol

[stone vault]

Nintendo is the master of releasing something 5 different ways

[ashen spoke]

Or more accurately N64

[mental briar]

@ashen spoke I imagine there is some relief in the dev community seeing those prices

[thorny swift]

I quoted a project last week; pre-pro through deliverables...15K. They came back and said "We didn't this would cost more than three grand"...🤣

[stone vault]

Oh hey here's how we should've released it the first time

[ashen spoke]

PS1 stomped them partly in due to cd prices

[ashen spoke]

I don’t know but the truth for most devs is that increase in game prices does not necessarily correlate to increase in pay

At least in the AAA space

[thorny swift]

no its 100% correlates to increases in pay

problem is only if you are a C suite prick

[ashen spoke]

lolol I knew you were going there

[thorny swift]

SOMEONE is getting paid more haha

[ashen spoke]

it’s true

[mental briar]

capitalism BAY BEEEE

Y’all need to unionize

[ashen spoke]

Honestly man, I want shit to be as cheap as possible too

So I like my $60 games lol

[thorny swift]

my best advice is everyone better get REAL GOOD at living the Mad Max lifestyle because we cant be too off from full feudal combat for our food

[ashen spoke]

But I have no problem paying $80 for MK World

[mental briar]

Yeah, I’m excited for the switch 2, now that I’m over the sticker shock

[thorny swift]

no game hardware ever seems expensive when you have to regularly buy camera hardware

[stone vault]

We're a few other reasons away from that too

[thorny swift]

I have pieces of machined metal that hold up ONE accessory that cost what a damn Switch 2 costs...and I hate it

I mean shit that monitor is a Switch 2 to my bank account

[stone vault]

I've never been a big Nintendo guy so for me it's an easy decision to pass. I feel bad for the Nintendo diehards though that will have to pay up

[ashen spoke]

Same, but it did definitely dampen the mood a bit

Also people being upset at the price have every right to be so I think it’s awesome they’re being very vocal

[glad blade]

Only thing that'll get me to buy in on s2 is if it reduces input lag on switch 1 shmups

Confirm that and damnit im in

[ashen spoke]

Yeah? Is it bad because of hardware, screen, or emulation?

Genuine question

[thorny swift]

its because "we" know the BOM on that isn't bad. New Tegra bought in mass quantities from a vendor (NVIDIA) that is only in the gaming space because of Nintendo when AMD has the lions share...they must be getting a great rate on the chips

[supple finch]

What channel is this?

[thorny swift]

strap a monitor and the rest on...$450 is STEEP

[glad blade]

Seems like a combination of all of the above imo but I'm not electric underground

So idk

[thorny swift]

NinTari SwitchJag 2

[ashen spoke]

Yeah sorry man. I should be better about shifting the conversation over elsewhere. What about the Jaguar do you want to talk about?

Let’s jump right to it

[thorny swift]

the fact we know you can share carts without paying again 🤣

[supple finch]

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt, just couldn't figure out why the Jaguar channel was blowing up. I expected to find some big news.

[thorny swift]

although the Tramiel's loved to sue people too so...very Nintendo like

[ashen spoke]

lol happens to me too

Especially the 3DO channel whenever there’s a conversation there

@supple finch if you weren’t aware there’s been an update to the Jaguar core - #1055574003810578503 message

[stone vault]

In a couple years someone will release a switch 2 emulator. 😂

[ashen spoke]

Those changes will eventually get merged back into the main repo but its improved perf for the core and has made it much easier to continue core development

[ashen spoke]

I’m serious!

[thorny swift]

so is Repo Man

that's who does the merges

[ashen spoke]

Oh shit, sorry. Never saw that movie lol

[thorny swift]

wasted a good joke on you!

[warm oasis]

Anyone hoping for Wind Waker remastered finally coming better keep holding on to their Wii U, the fact they showed off the GC version in their presentation was so bizarre. Who wants to play the old 4:3 SD version when they already remastered it years back?

Oh wait, this is the Jaguar channel...

[fossil lintel]

Come on, they deserve some activity

Even if false positive

[gentle bobcat]

Have you played Atari today?

I had to do work at 5AM this morning, so the answer for me, so far is no. But I'm looking forward to trying the updated "Nuked" core ASAP.

I hit like and subscribe... and cracked my monitor.

[thorny swift]

It’s it’s anything like their N64 NSO offerings it’ll be less reliable and technically sound than the Jaguar core is right now (kept it on topic 🤣)

[midnight robin]

Wow, that's a STRANGE movie... I like it but wow

[small sail]

This might be your best thumbnail yet

[thorny swift]

we shall see how it goes

[small sail]

Expect good things

Btw, I'll be streaming Jag in an hour

[mental briar]

seems like a TOS violation...

[small sail]

I'm lost

???

[mental briar]

nothing, it was a bad joke

and it won't be funny once i explain it 🙂

(assuming it was funny from the start)

[small sail]

no worries, one day I'd love to get a joke, or be on the inside.

My day will come.

Anyone have any suggestions for some new HB games?

[stone vault]

For jaguar? How bout that tower 2 enhanced edition

The one Jag game I wanna play but can't find a rom for anywhere and I don't think they sell it as just a rom

So if perhaps you're lucky and have a rom give that one a go

[fading anchor]

hello everyone. noob question..where can i find the current jaguar core?

[keen zealot]

Hello, please see the pinned messages.

[short acorn]

I would also like the newest jaguar core.

[small sail]

Thanks. The stream is finished now. I'm not sure if I have that game or not.

Great core.

There are very few games I like in the system though.

[limber jay]

Which folder do we put the Jaguar Games in on the SD Card

[stone vault]

Yeah I'm not a huge Jag fan. But I appreciate it being preserved because I love video games, and it's part of my favorite era of gaming. And someday I do wanna try out every game for it

My buddy and I wanna make pizza n wings, get some drinks, and I er the course of a weekend pick a console, and spend a few minutes trying out every game released on whatever console we pick.

[gentle bobcat]

Jaguar game files go where all of the rest of games go... under the games directory. Make a directory named Jaguar and put them in there.

[small sail]

It's definitely entertaining to go through them.

[hexed hatch]

Single Ram

[pure oracle]

Trying to catch up here, did nukeykt release a nuked-jaguar core?

[mental briar]

No, Kitrinx integrated nuked’s more accurate 68k into the core

[pure oracle]

Thank you!

[thin sky]

Been sick past couple days, looking forward to checking it out and see how much closer we are to full speed

[pallid jasper]

Mazamars312 is not baking a core on his side?

[ashen spoke]

I don’t think anyone is actively working on it except for GreyRogue

[mental briar]

I haven't seen anything out of Maz since PCN's video. Grey and Kit are the devs on the MiSTer side

The pocket core hasn't been released either

[small sail]

I spoke to Maz a few days ago. Life and work keeping him busy.

[mental briar]

Yeah, that was my assumption - he’s a busy dude

[warm oasis]

Mazamars and GR were sharing code awhile back, but GR has taken the MiSTer core a lot further than either were when Mazamars showed off what he had. I expect he will just focus on porting what GR has over to his work on a Pocket version.

Hopefully he gets his Star Wars Vector Arcade core finishes up, that would be nice to finally play.

[mental briar]

And the for forbidden Virtual Boy core

[warm oasis]

I think if it has taken this long and he still hasn't finished up his SW arcade core I wouldn't hold my breath for a completed VB core from him.

I suspect someone will pick that one up in the not too distant future. There are a few big Devs who will have projects wrapping up in the next wee while, would not be surprised if one of them picks that one.

[mental briar]

I wish someone would pick up the x68k core :/

[warm oasis]

We have seen a few things ported over from Puu's core which is good to see. I don't know if there is much else in his core that could be ported over still.

[uncut atlas]

68k is pretty unpleasent to work on

not just because all the documentation and software is in japanese, but because the author completely ignores the changes made by anyone else

[warm oasis]

Do you know if his one has stuff not in our one? I know recently some things were ported over. It's a frustrating situation though with Puu not using GitHub and ignoring what is done by others.

[uncut atlas]

no idea, it diverged too much and I just gave up

zip blobs are useless for collaboration

[mental briar]

yeah, I think that’s the frustrating thing from the sidelines - even if enough interest in drummed up, working on it without Puu seems silly, and working with Puu isn’t possible. But to answer your question, Dandy, there are a bunch of DMA fixes in last year’s Puu beta that haven’t made it over

(that’s what thera said anyway)

[pallid gulch]

Normally all DMA fixes have been ported.
I'm checking an update (not present on MiSTer) of Puu-san regarding set IPL Interrupt on restart (seems to follow the Inside 68K doc) but my tests don't show any new programs or games working better and no regression so difficult to make a PR in this case.
There is plenty of changes of D88 floppy part not ported but both codes are too different so not sure it will better or worse 😦

[mental briar]

so aside from the d88 stuff (and the IPL interruption), we have everything in the current unstable?

[pallid gulch]

I think so

[ashen spoke]

How do you pronounce Jaguar? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/jaguar

[halcyon surge]

It makes me lol to hear how some folks pronounce Jaguar in YouTube vis or what ever. 🤣
I'm not saying it's wrong but I was born not far away from the Jaguar car plant and always pronounced JAG-YOU-ARE

But mostly just abbreviated to Jag.
You can't go wrong with Jag...or Jaaaag as Jeremy Clarkson would say 😆

[graceful sierra]

I always pronounce it like
Jagger ...Adon from Streetfighter Alpha Series teachd me with his mighty Jaguar Kick

[ashen spoke]

I say “JAGWHAR” because I am cool and also the authority on English pronunciation.

[outer veldt]

The weirdest pronounciation of the word by some American youtubers is 'jagwire'. How the hell do they get that from jaguar?

[ashen spoke]

lol you’re not supposed to give me a thumbs up, you’re only encouraging madness

[ashen spoke]

I dunno, language is weird

Like why do I say JAGWHAR when looking at the word, the British pronunciation looks to be the obvious correct choice

[graceful sierra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pgaBeDfGrM

[mental briar]

I say “jagware” because it’s the middle ground between American and incorrect.

[fresh urchin]

Etymologically, it comes from yaguára, so shouldn’t the j be silent?

Robby needs to change his pronunciation to “Yag-wha-rah”

[ashen spoke]

damn I didn’t know

That sounds more fun to say too

[south locust]

Jaguar /khagwár/ in spanish.

[dusk slate]

Sometimes I say this. Sometimes I say jagwire. Good stuff.

In all seriousness, I find it silly, and honestly a little insulting, when people make fun of others for how their local dialect pronounce words. Different cultures speak in different ways. Doesn't mean it's wrong. I find it interesting to discover how people around the world pronounce Jaguar! It's fun! Not something to be made fun of or insult.

[forest tartan]

Correct, MAR-E-O 🙂

[glad flame]

Mayreeoh

[dense ravine]

Jag-you-are!

🇬🇧

[dense ravine]

Marlo

[dusk slate]

Mar L Zero

[halcyon surge]

I didn't mean to cause offence btw. I understand that there are a million ways things are pronounced. If I have offended anyone I apologize and this was not my intention.

[forest tartan]

Look, Martin Brennan did the most excited new Spectrum Loki, Amstrad took over, and sacked everyone, he kept on developing the tech, info the flare 1, flare2, Konix, Atari PAnther, then the Jaguar. He's english, Jaguar. Simples.

[dense ravine]

Saul Goodman

[unborn steeple]

Don’t worry btw, these are silly people being silly and no-one is taking any offence. Plus you’re right.

Jag you are

[ashen spoke]

That’s a cool JEG WILEY

[mental briar]

I love Pumas

[unborn steeple]

Big cats are cute cats

Met this one on Friday, just stalking around his/her enormous enclosure

Checking for prey

[mental briar]

I do love big cats.

Especially when you see videos of them doing decidedly cat things and you're like "holy shit, you are just a fucking cat"

[unborn steeple]

Lions in cardboard boxes

My mistake. Giraffes in cardboard boxes.

[frigid dock]

Wait is this what Schrodinger cat looks like

[mental briar]

https://tenor.com/kBLeQDtsROu.gif

[near aurora]

ehem

jah-goo-arr

guar is easy to say

ja is also easy

but if you move the g across to the 1st syllable it makes everything else weird

[tranquil cape]

Always say "JigAWah" like Cartman

[leaden locust]

I have never played the jaguar before and I'm struggling to find decent games in the library. Any recommendations? And for homebrew as well?

[ashen spoke]

Club Drive!

[keen zealot]

DOOM, Rayman, Tempest 2000

[mental briar]

Wolfenstein is real good on jag

[ashen spoke]

Fight for Life!

[fossil lintel]

does the power-off button work yet?

[uncut atlas]

thumbs down to doom on jag. I never tried the romhacked version but the base version is lackluster

tempest is probably the big draw

the fact that doom has no music on jag makes me gloomy

[graceful sierra]

Tempest and AvP were my only reason why i owned a Sahq u are back in the days.

[dense ravine]

Tempest, Wolfenstein and AvP would be the three I’d most like to play. Rayman, I could always play on the PS1 or Saturn - although I don’t know if the Jaguar original is different in any meaningful way

[low dome]

There're actually many differences on the Jaguar version of Rayman which is worth a play through if your fan of the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjJV0iOYASU

[tranquil cape]

Iron Soldier and Skyhammer are pretty cool for some 3D mech stuff

[low dome]

I also think that NBA Jam: TE on the Jaguar is the best cart version compared to 32x, SNES, and Mega Drive. It just feels more polish than the other version, even against the Saturn and PS1.

[gentle bobcat]

I'm sure this has been posted elsewhere, but srg320 posted a YouTube video showing progress on the 3DO core:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5GQkE7UmFk

[mental briar]

https://tenor.com/sZrM.gif

[leaden locust]

Thanks! Imma go those a try

[gentle bobcat]

Contrast the 3DO version of Doom to that of the Jaguar. Of course, that is a classic story that many know already, but the Jaguar version, for its time, was considered quite good. Of course when the N64 and Playstation came out after that, they smoked the Jag version.

Yes, the 3D0 version was ported from the Jag... and the 3DO version has music... but they had to make the play area significantly smaller. Shown in video about 20 minutes in.

[gentle bobcat]

Hhm, is it three dee oh, or three dee zero? That is, is that an O or an 0?

[keen zealot]

Three Dimensional Objects

[dusk slate]

Yeah, Doom without the rocking soundtrack just doesn't feel right.

[gentle bobcat]

I think back in the day, with the PC version of Doom, you could put an audio CD in your optical drive and it would play tracks from it.

[uncut atlas]

well fortunately, after death and taxes, a Doom port is the third inescapable reality

[dusk slate]

Ironically, N64 never actually got a port of the original Doom! Doom 64 is basically Doom "3" before Doom 3 was a thing. I love Doom 64 though, even if I don't like its ambient style soundtrack.

[mental briar]

I could never get the romhack to work. I'll have to find some place else to play doom with music I guess

[gentle bobcat]

I also like the Doom 64 on PC that runs fine on Linux with Steam/Proton.

BTW, just finished up a Tempest 2000 session and I beat my all-time-high. It was a start-on-the-first-level game and while I didn't quite make it to the highest level I've ever been to... it was very satisfying.

The Nuked DS core does definitely seem more responsive.

[mental briar]

Wild that the core is in as good as shape as it’s in

[dusk slate]

Ship it!

[mental briar]

It is incomplete. There are at least 7 CD games that yearn to be experienced

[gentle bobcat]

A month or more ago... someone had a Jag CD for sale on eBay with several tens of CDs. They had like every CD collection ever made for every JagFest, Demo disks, samplers. They were asking $27,000.00 for it.

[mental briar]

Lordy

[tropic rock]

Is this one of the 7?

[mental briar]

Move over Dino Rex, there is a new sheriff in town

I guess i need to look at redump jag cd images..................dot dot dot

[gentle bobcat]

Primal Rage

[deft spruce]

All the boomers with ones growing up called their cars “Jag Wires” so I’m going with that

[gentle bobcat]

The original JagCD library was 13 titles. There have been a few independent releases over the years I believe.

Baldies, Battlemorph, Blue Lightning, Brain Dead 13, Dragon's Lair, Highlander, Hover Strike, Iron Soldier 2, Myst, Primal Rage, Space Ace, Vid Grid, and World Tour Racing

[fervent ingot]

Ultra Vortek has a song called DRUNKICIDAL so that has to be the best Jaguar game pretty much scientifically

[spiral roost]

I guess you now realize why the Jaguar failed.

[leaden locust]

Yep I tried all the recommendations and the only enjoyable game was tempest

[spiral roost]

Wait until you try out the CDI core

[leaden locust]

Is it booting games now?

[spiral roost]

Yeah. It booted everything I tried. I mean....the games are shit .....but they work.

[leaden locust]

I'm in the mood for some mid gaming, thanks!

[ashen spoke]

lol did you try my recommendations?

[leaden locust]

I did, it had decent music but the rest.......mmmmm

I did like the jpeg city background lol

[gentle bobcat]

Battlesphere is a really good game but it is quite complex, the controls take a while to learn, and it really shines as a network multiplayer game... so it isn't suitable for casual game play. AvP is pretty good... but people expected to be a FPS and it is more quest/goal oriented.

The entire Jag game library probably cost less to produce than a single PS1 triple A game. 🙂

[ashen spoke]

Yeah I was trolling lol.

[gentle bobcat]

Atari management were used to the 2600-7800 development days... and thought that one or two people should be able to make a game in 3 months or less. Their development tools assumed game devs were proficient at assembly language and used to doing everything from scratch. I got that info by listening to a few interviews with mid-tier management from Atari from the time.

[orchid mountain]

Is it possible to map the numpad to a keyboard?

I tried pressing keys on my keyboard when running the input mapper, no dice.

[tranquil cape]

unfortunately not since a side keyboard would be a different device ID, and therefore considered a different controller input (like player2)

[orchid mountain]

aw darn.

[mental briar]

honestly, nothing on the controller is analog, so using the keyboard for everything is not a bad idea

[tranquil cape]

need more of this

[warm oasis]

It would be great if there would be some way to have P1 controlls across two devices, for situations like there, so you could plug in a keyboard or even a number pad into slot 2 and use those. Quite a few different systems that could benefit from this, Super Cassette Vision and RCA Studio II come to mind

[stone vault]

I had that thing back in the day to play PSO on my GameCube. Got hundreds of hours out of that controller. Got my $70 worth

[dreamy hinge]

you already can, if you're willing to do some ini fiddling

[warm oasis]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[dreamy hinge]

and it's not very user friendly/dynamic, but it is possible

[warm oasis]

Any way to make it more user-friendly to set up via OSD?

[stone vault]

I'll have to figure that out. It'd be nice to have fast forward and save states tied to a Bluetooth keyboard

[dreamy hinge]

and you can't bind them all in one shot, you have to do each one separately. it's still gross but at least not impossible

all the save state cores already have keyboard shortcuts for the state operations

[stone vault]

Ah Sweet

[dreamy hinge]

F1/F2/F3/F4 to load and then some modifier key+F1/F2/F3/F4 to save. I can't remember the modifier

[warm oasis]

Is there any same way a core for a system with a number pad could be preset up to enable keyboard in slot B or this not feasible?

[dusty gale]

What do you guys think about using l2 and r2 as shift buttons to map the face buttons to the number pad?

[ashen spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/old-man-confused-idk-clueless-help-gif-14043805

[dusk slate]

Honestly, I just used the analog sticks to map most of the numbers. Between the eight directions and the L3 and R3 stick clicking, that covers them.

[midnight robin]

I get some disconnections using that pad via 2.4G both on the MiSTer and the PC.
Do you get stable connection with that thing over 2.4G?

[orchid mountain]

is it possible to have per-game profiles for button mapping?

[dusk slate]

Not normally, but maybe with MGL files? @ashen spoke is the MGL expert!

[mental briar]

*MGL

[dusk slate]

Close enough.

[mental briar]

I just don’t want him stealing valor

[ashen spoke]

Yeah but it’s a bit complex. Like @dusk slate said. You can use an MGL file (which acts as a game shortcut for your main menu) to load up the core and give it a different name; which means a different config file is saved along with different button mapping.

[dusty gale]

I got it yesterday. I only used it for about an hour. Did not have a problem with that. Going to try it out for an extended period on Sunday.

[outer veldt]

Am I correct in thinking that the Jaguar CD is just an interface and doesn't provide the console with extra hardware capabilities? Is it feasable to incorporate cd loading into the core?

[warm oasis]

It is being actively worked on.

[mental briar]

https://tenor.com/4ciR.gif

[ashen spoke]

@tropic rock DELIVERS!!!

[warm oasis]

That's what winning looks like.

[pseudo salmon]

Vid Grid is a very fun game!

[gentle bobcat]

So much CD teasing going on.

[thorny swift]

You are correct. There is no additional hardware in Jag CD that expands on the specs minus the hardware needed to read data from the disc and transmit it to the Jag

It’s not like Sega CD which was a true hardware expansion in its capabilities and expanding upon the base Genesis

[mental briar]

That's why it was basically just a discman that strapped on to the top of the jag

[gentle bobcat]

The CD toilet.

Especially when the lid is up.

And the memory track cart in place.

Umm, yeah...

Why someone assembled a double-decker CD, I have no idea. Just because they were there.

[dusk slate]

Isn't this basically how the Turbografx CD was as well?

[thorny swift]

Yes and no. Yes because it just transmitted data. No because you got the HuCards expanding ram

But nothing like Sega CD. That had extra silicon to give Sega extra hardware features. Rotation and scaling were a big one

Or something like that. Doing it from memory

Yep googled it. The 315 chip. Custom silicon for scaling

[dusk slate]

Yeah, they even liked to demonstrate the scaling and rotation on the bios screen with the Sega logo flying all over the screen.

[warm oasis]

Does the core need to support that memory expansion card or we covered already with how the core saves?

[thorny swift]

Good question. Honestly not sure

[wind spindle]

Hello. anyone know where I can get the latest Jaguar core from? I checked under test-builds and unstable-nightlies and don't see it

oh n/m found it under pinned

thanks 🙂

[tropic rock]

MemoryTrack is not yet supported

[warm oasis]

Is it required to save games or does it do something else?

Also, just to get prepared, what will the Jag CD BIOS need to be named as? boot1.rom?

[mental briar]

games save fine in the core right now, so it must be something else?

[warm oasis]

According to wiki "The Memory Track cartridge stores saved game position and high scores."

So maybe you need it for CD games to save

[mental briar]

Oh maybe

[warm oasis]

Which I guess makes sense if the cart games save to eeproms on their cart and not on the console

[urban mango]

Yeah it’s for saving in JagCD games

[glossy iron]

yes its mandatory, otherwise JagCD games can't save

[ashen spoke]

yeah you gotta Jag CD some games for save

[gentle bobcat]

I've been watching some "Let's play" type videos on YouTube for Tempest 2000... which have informed me that there are actually a couple of enemies and bonus level styles I have yet to see. Gives me a goal. Again, thanks so much for the Atari Jaguar core. I definitely look forward to CD support if it isn't to big of a PITA for devs. That Memory Track Cart needed to save CD game progress... sounds very specific to the Jaguar. I mean, how do the other systems do save games for their CD addons?

[mental briar]

sega cd had built in memory

neogeo cd had memory cards (?)

3DO called trip hawkins on the phone and read the save data out in binary for him to copy down and send to you

[gentle bobcat]

Paper tape.

UPC printer

[lunar latch]

If you don’t have a jag pro controller with converter to usb, what is the next best controller? I have controllers with 6 face buttons, which are probably good for SF2, but what about games that use the number pad? Is there a possibility to add the ability to use a controller AND keyboard (for the number pad keys)?

[sterile moss]

Lazy option is to bind the numpad to analog stick directions/click

[mental briar]

Honestly, because the pad is digital anyway, playing on a keyboard isn't bad at all

[sterile moss]

You can use both a controller and KB as player 1 at the same time too. Just need to map the KB within the core as a controller

[sterile moss]

ie open the OSD, use a KB to browse to 'define <core name> buttons' and map the KB keys

[lunar latch]

Many thanks, Will definitely try when next to my MiSTer!

[gentle bobcat]

Looks like more original, non-pro controllers have shown up on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/130887512744?_skw=atari+jaguar+controller

[mental briar]

goddamnit

@ashen spoke are the grey button ones the good ones or the black button?

[ashen spoke]

I don’t remember, sorry