lol
#Atari Jaguar
dry herald
tbf I just don't game when I travel anymore
I wish I had a game boy micro
that'd be a great thing to have
dry herald
I'm fine with that but there's a lot of things you can do with it
And it'd be perfect for my pocket
lethal oasis
I need to see if anyone is making faceplates worth a damn these days
some odd years ago when I got mine, all the third party (read: new) face plates were all sort of garbagey with foggy screen areas
dry herald
go figure I make a statement about that Pocket core not being updated in over a year and it then gets an update
ashen spoke
go figure I make a statement about that Pocket core not being updated in over a ...
Depending on how you look at it, we could thank you for being the force that made it happen
frigid dock
Is there a reason to play it over the Neo Geo version?
small mural
I mean, it's entirely different. It's a portable version. But it's a fun pick up and play golf game. Cutesy art work.
A lot of fun and very well suited to handheld.
ashen spoke
All NGPC games are wonderful carts that should be cherished
small mural
Cherish the Cart,
I'm always having you in my life
Oh baby I cherish the pouch
That keeps you by my side.
I'm always playin' it, cherish the light
Because the screen's not backlit
And baby perish the thought
Of seeing even one bit... in the darkness....
</NGadonna>
tranquil mauve
Can anyone make the core available to download?
dry herald
Can anyone make the core available to download?
check the pins 😉
ashen spoke
Ok I’m switching over to an analog board. I would appreciate it if someone finishes this core to use single ram.
Kthxbye
warm oasis
Right now would settle for someone updating the FW on the current core and running off a fresh build with the few tweaks since the last one we could play about with 🙂
grizzled mantle
Ok I’m switching over to an analog board. I would appreciate it if someone finis...
But now you have a spare IO....so you need another MiSTer
ashen spoke
But now you have a spare IO....so you need another MiSTer
Don’t you put that voodoo spell on me! 
dry herald
As do I ... maybe I'll get one of Taki's boards :3
serene widget
serene widget
What do you guys think of my idea of an Atari Jaguar controller redesign? Serious answers only.
Sorry for how ugly it looks like, I don't know how to correctly draw this.
proud wave
One issue is the sqaure keypad is designed for overlays:
limber yoke
Bottom left looks easier to reach the number buttons. Kudos for the 6-button layout too.
serene widget
Yeah. I wanted to go with Pro Controller here.
serene widget
One issue is the sqaure keypad is designed for overlays:
Bottom left it is then.
@limber yoke And yeah. I prefer the numpad to be in the upper center, rather than how it is originally.
sudden vault
transparent button dpad, screen underneath. make the overlay an underlay kind of like the vectrex masks?
I've enjoyed using the NTT datapad with the jaguar though. makes for a better controller experience
ashen spoke
It would be funny if someone picks this core up again and it gets completed before anyone even thinks of making a 3DO core lol
vagrant obsidian
did jotego ever officially add this core to his list of to-do's? I saw on a forum post that he wanted a list of issues
warm oasis
It was added years ago and removed over a year ago. I wouldn't expect him to pick this up, especially after the quagmire that NGPC turned into for him.
mental briar
Who will be our savior?
serene widget
Some unknown dev. Maybe.
warm oasis
@plush salmon had a thought, could the current Atari SNAC adaptor potentially be used for Jaguar if the core gets worked on again and support is added, or would it need a bespoke SNAC board designed?
plush salmon
jag had a 15 pin connector, I'm not sure it used all those pins but don't think there's enough io to make it work without tricks. We only have 7.
warm oasis
Ah right, makes sense, they did have that number pad
Something interesting I didn't know when reading about the pad was there were "multitap" dongles/splitters that if you used two of them you could have four controllers hooked up, and a few games had four player support. Not sure if the core currently supports that (or two player thinking about it), something to check next time I am at MiSTer, am curious now.
last kelp
Just upgraded to 256 ram and I'm giving this core a go. I've tried a few games but I can't progress beyond the cube; any tips on making it work?
warm oasis
Do you have the BIOS file?
There should be a pinned post for a compatibility sheet that I logged what worked on
But be forewarned that the core is unstable so has random crashes across the games that do run
last kelp
Is there a particular version of the BIOS I need? I got one but I think it's pretty ancient.
warm oasis
I think there only is one, and if I remember you need to rename it boot.rom
If you are still having trouble then have a read on this channel
#1096872957030174750 message
ashen spoke
I’ve had Club Drive randomly work great for me if that’s any help
mental briar
If we post enough in here, maybe someone will get interested and pick the core back up 😄
warm oasis
Keep the faith, I think it is inevitable it will be worked on again one day. I mean who would have seen champions emerge to take on Super Cassette Vision and CDi? 🙂
uncut atlas
I think Jaguar is a console born under an unlucky star. It is doomed to languish in mediocrity both in it's original form and in emulation for ages to come. Woe is the Jaguar.
mental briar
You could fix this, Kitrinx. You could be Jaguar's savior!! 🙂
fresh urchin
Software emulation has actually been incredible for the jag lately.
ashen spoke
Jaguar is cool or at least I can appreciate it since it’s at no cost to me now. I probably would’ve been super pissed if I spent money on the console or games lol.
warm oasis
I still have massive regrets that in the early 2000s I didn't buy one when my local Game (UK Game Stop) was dumping them new for about £30.
ashen spoke
I still have massive regrets that in the early 2000s I didn't buy one when my lo...
Yeah I think at a super cheap price that’s cool too.
warm oasis
When I went to try get one a few years later they were second hand on eBay for over £100 and have only gone up since then
So a solid core would be most appreciated 🙂
sudden palm
I had two Jaguars , but sold them a few years ago
actually, now I do not regret it, BigPEmu is enough for me completely.
ashen spoke
emulation is so great 
warm oasis
Is there an open source emulator that can do Jag CD these days?
frosty pike
Is there an open source emulator that can do Jag CD these days?
I am 75% sure bigPemu
plush salmon
don't think it open source.
warm oasis
Yeah, I know there is a closed source one, but curious about an open source implementation. If we ever get a champion to finish the current Jaguar core, and a Jag CD were possible, then an open source implementation would be near invaluable as a reference.
hidden siren
Maybe mr whitehouse would be willing to help with insights and info, much like the author of the closed-source cd-i emulator helps out a bit with the cd-i core; or at least, he might be willing to add a groovy-renderer?
uncut atlas
_You_ could fix this, Kitrinx. _You_ could be Jaguar's savior!! 🙂
Too bad i'm a potato.
while it's cool that bigpemu works, it's generally useless for furthering our emulation knowledge
mental briar
Too bad i'm a potato.
So much unrealized energy in a potato tho
uncut atlas
So much unrealized energy in a potato tho
hard prairie
is there like a quiz to find out our inner veggie ID?
proud wave
Yes, it's available for Wii, it's called Veggie tales or someting? /s
mental briar
damnit dolch. you got my hopes up when I saw this channel light up (the rumor is someone is working on the core.............)
proud wave
I want a Jaguar core as much as the next guy (unless the next guy is @ashen spoke nobody wants a Jag core more than Robby), so I hope that's true!
fossil lintel
This robby guy sounds greedy
mental briar
#1046941029296779344 message ¯_(ツ)_/¯
serene widget
The same was said about the N64 core, and look. Stranger things have happened.
I wish that person that @keen zealot gave a shout out some good luck.
serene widget
Still, I'm optimistic so they should take it easy, and take all the time in the world.
We'll be waiting, don't worry.
mental briar
Yeah. We have gone this long without one. It will just be a nice surprise 🙂
last kelp
Does anyone have a link to that list of the working games on the beta core? Haven't found a single game that gets beyond the bios screen.
warm oasis
Check the pins
proud wave
Does anyone have a link to that list of the working games on the beta core? Have...
Do you have single or dual RAM?
last kelp
Do you have single or dual RAM?
I just upgraded to dual.
ashen spoke
A true Jaguar fan knows the joke
mental briar
16x4 = 64 it's just math
serene widget
I sometimes wonder how Atari got the permission to name their chips Tom and Jerry.
lavish mica
Trademarks are registered for application in specific categories of goods. MGM probably somehow never got the idea to trademark "Tom & Jerry" for usage in integrated circuit production.
plucky quail
(There’s also the fact that by 93 MGM didn’t even own Tom and Jerry but that’s besides the point)
uncut atlas
I sometimes wonder how Atari got the permission to name their chips Tom and Jerr...
and butch
jag cd used the chip "butch"
that's the dogs name
serene widget
No. Spike's the dog's name. Butch is the black cat's name, and Tom's occasional frenemy.
serene widget
Tom and Jerry is so fun to watch at any given time.
uncut atlas
seriously they should have gone with spike then
butch creeps me out
and the white rat is named toodles galore
uncut atlas
I should just go start naming the rest of the IC's after those
the 68k can be Spike and the OS rom can be toodles
the i2s DAC can be mammy twoshoes
sudden palm
nice!!!
hidden siren
If you want/need to expand the testing circle, I'm sure you can find some volunteers. I volunteer to be a volunteer 🙂
warm oasis
I tried to ping you a message, had a couple of questions, but looks like you can't accept it
keen zealot
I will check some options on my end later.
Need some rest right now, poor health condition.
warm oasis
Thanks mate, hope you are doing OK
serene widget
I will check some options on my end later.
Need some rest right now, poor health...
Same.
Got COVID-19. Again.
The "one game by December" meme lives on.
mental briar
ugh, I hope you both recover quickly and safely.
serene widget
I will. Just gonna take some rest, and play some games.
dry herald
Hope zet-sensei is ok. Wishing them a safe and stress-lacking recovery
keen zealot
I will be much better within maybe a week.
Let's talk more about the Jaguar now.
fossil lintel
Good to hear, Jaguar on the other hand won't.
keen zealot
uncut atlas
I will be much better within maybe a week.
Let's talk more about the Jaguar now...
this was a mediocre system at best
the way that it dealt with arbitrating the 68000 was shameful, limiting the DSP (Jerry) to only 16 bits
the bus, despite being split up neatly into multiple 16 bit chunks, couldn't handle concurrent data transfers on the upper and lower parts of the bus
everything except the dram and carts were 16 bit wide bus
carts were 32 bit
and tom/dram was 64
there were several unaddressed hardware bugs, one of the worst being jerry's having to wait to master the bus multiple times in a row, needing a read between writes and all that
tom was technically able to do a 1400 dot horizontal resolution but the clock they chose to use in the jaguar only allowed up to 700
jerry also had two great dsp banks it could have used for audio, but instead they chose to only do the i2s output
smh
atari
keen zealot
Thanks for the explanation and some clarification on the technical side, very welcomed.
mental briar
Calling the Aliens Versus Predator machine a "system" seems generous imo
uncut atlas
also, just to add insult to injury, they drop the least significant bit of the color blue
did you know early models of the jaguar had an ADC in the controller ports for analog joysticks?
it's used in only one single game, Battle Sphere
they removed it in later models because it was too sensible an idea
serene widget
this was a mediocre system at best
Do you think emulation (software and FPGA) could fix it by a decent amount?
uncut atlas
you can never wash clean the atari
emulators could overclock it to fix some speed issues, but the difficulty in optimizing it was the real problem
serene widget
I'm surprised that it's still receiving homebrew and aftermarket games after all this time.
Just wish the frickin' controller was redesigned to modern standards.
mental briar
the homer simpson car of controllers
fresh urchin
Yeah, early systems also had problems actually playing carts. I shamefully have a launch system that would do the red flash that I sent back to Atari. The jaguar I got back still had trouble playing carts 🤡
Yeah, the homebrew is generally Atari st ports utilizing the main cpu.
uncut atlas
it uses pretty generic parts
well that's not true
the cpu is very generic
tom and jerry arent
but it's got a lot of power for such a basic cpu
it's probably appealing for that reason, where making a psx game would be hard
warm oasis
That's bizarre about the ADC joystick connector... Does/could the core support joystick for this game?
uncut atlas
I wrote the adc a few days ago but I dunno how accurate it is
warm oasis
Oh, exciting 🙂
last crater
It really sounds like Atari rushed an unfinished design out the door. RJ Mical and Dave Needle, who worked on the Jaguar, also worked on the Amiga and Lynx.
Even without the hardware bugs and flaws, developers might have taken the easy route, not fully utilizing the hardware, especially if the SDK wasn't great.
uncut atlas
I actually cant figure out for the life of me how to activate the battle sphere analog controlls, but I see it polling
uncut atlas
okay kids, knock yourself out: #test-builds message
it runs pretty well now
per se
sullen hare
ashen spoke
LOL DAMNIT, I have to rebuild my dual ram MiSTer again
mental briar
curse you WIFI
ashen spoke
omg omg omg omg
I don’t think I’ve ever been this excited about the Jaguar in my entire life.
@tropic rock + @uncut atlas you two are awesome!!!
mental briar
Big ❤️ s to both of you
ashen spoke
Also @rotund portal and Torlus!!! Thanks for helping bring back this core from the dead!
thorny swift
No shit
thorny swift
Someone hit the red <@484201598218928128> button
Button has been responded to
ashen spoke
@thorny swift get in here
thorny swift
<@484201598218928128> get in here
lol I already responded
ashen spoke
@thorny swift there’s a new Jaguar core did you know
thorny swift
I was in the damn shower and my watch alerted me to the big red button lol
ashen spoke
@thorny swift wow new Jaguar core
thorny swift
<@484201598218928128> wow new Jaguar core
I know you Texans are slow but wow today you are a patience tester. 🤣
ashen spoke
I know you Texans are slow but wow today you are a patience tester. 🤣
I’m sorry, I was just trying to be funny
ashen spoke
In all seriousness also pinging @small sail so you’re aware there’s a new Jaguar core (requires dual sdram) - #test-builds message
thorny swift
I’m sending you to apology therapy @ashen spoke
dusk slate
Hey Awbacon, did you know that there's a new Jaguar core!! 
keen zealot
And it works quite well.
I've done quite a run on Rayman already (from my bedridden time).
mental briar
hrm, I wonder if I am having a bios issue as it's not loading games for me
thorny swift
Hey Awbacon, did you know that there's a new Jaguar core!! <:CDI:107053495499751...
Saving the best for last. 3DO
tropic rock
What is DV1?
mental briar
What is DV1?
Direct video
tropic rock
oh yeah. only tested hdmi
mental briar
Is there a specific set I should be using? All roms boot to a black screen for me. I have a boot.rom that I assume update_all grabbed (it doesn't show up when I choose "load bios")
tropic rock
Dual RAM?
mental briar
yeah
keen zealot
j64 rom format
mental briar
yep
roms from everyone's favorite game pack
let me try my other dual ram mister just in case it's a retrocastle thing
tropic rock
That should work
The build is very tempermental. I get different compatibility than Kitrinx with it
This one works very well for me, a bit less so for her
uncut atlas
avp and rally hang, those are always the problematic ones
mental briar
Ok, the update_all bios works fine on my misteraddons build
tropic rock
Trevor McFur is also sometimes broke
mental briar
I wonder if it's more direct_video shenanigans as I don't even get the red jaguar thing on my DV dual ram
thorny swift
What is this for?
thorny swift
Ahh I see
tropic rock
If anything should work, that should
uncut atlas
before anyone asks, no double dragon isn't broken, it's just that bad
mental briar
Foreground is mister addons dual ram. Background is retrocastle dual ram. Both using the same directory/bios on the nas
Wonder if there are ram chip shenanigans or direct video shenanigans at play (retrocastle mister is hooked up to the tink4k)
let me swap em
thorny swift
Foreground is mister addons dual ram. Background is retrocastle dual ram. Both u...
Dude is that Johnny 5?
thorny swift
mental briar
Your mother was a snowblower
thorny swift
Johnny 5 confirmed 🤣
keen zealot
I've seen the issue with AVP with the current test build, mine was more cooperative earlier.
tropic rock
This is attempting to operate well out of timing closure.
If you want to post some of the earlier builds that work better for some people that would be ok
dense ravine
Foreground is mister addons dual ram. Background is retrocastle dual ram. Both u...
Nice room!
keen zealot
If you're okay with it.
tropic rock
yep
keen zealot
Build from earlier, Commit d9d2e27. So it is missing your last changes from the last 2 hours.
I've tested Rayman for an hour (done the two first worlds), DOOM for 4 stages, 2 matches on NBA Jam and some ATARI Karts with it.
Works better with Turbo Mode for the CPU.
mental briar
Ok, it's something with the retrocastle build. same SD card in the misteraddon's stack is fine hooked up to the tink
tropic rock
Keep in mind it might not be specific to a provider/build.
thorny swift
I’ll capture some tomorrow. I’m chest deep in roast pork loin prep for when my wife gets home
tropic rock
Kitrinx and I are using different RAM but original DE-10nanos and have different results (I am rocking a 32 single chip and an old dual chip)
thorny swift
small mural
Ok, it's something with the retrocastle build. same SD card in the misteraddon's...
Same with MiSTer Addons analog pro for me. Works fine on the older analogue board.
mental briar
Same with MiSTer Addons analog pro for me. Works fine on the older analogue boar...
not going to work with the analog pro board because it needs dual ram I think
small mural
Sorry, whichever one is dual ram.
thorny swift
I’ll try my dual ram OG IO build and my Direct IO build tomorrow
tropic rock
dual ram is currently required yes
small mural
The new board names haven't stuck with me yet.
uncut atlas
I dont think turbo for the cpu is even doing anything atm
mental briar
of course it works fine when I put the retrocastle board on the workbench and pull it apart....
mental briar
Finally, 64 bits on the mister
uncut atlas
also I dont think the framework can do direct video with dual ram support
thorny swift
Finally, 64 bits on the mister
MiSTer did the math
uncut atlas
I think it's an oversight
it doesnt do any of the analog stuff, which is used for that
mental briar
MiSTer did the math
quick maths quick maths
mental briar
<@225003633668915201> I/O Direct. Not Analog Pro.
Ahh, that's where it's working for me
mental briar
oh
thorny swift
I have a bunch of Jaguar library footage to run as prelim side by sides thankfully. Maybe someone made a Jaguar series for 2025. Who knows!
keen zealot
We can praise @uncut atlas & @tropic rock for reworking that core, that's quite a nightmare to maintain and redo, one more time.
mental briar
you have to disable direct video. add [jaguar] direct_video=0 to the mister.ini
small mural
Cool cool. I'll give it a go.
small sail
In all seriousness also pinging <@378088965141430283> so you’re aware there’s a ...
Thanks Robby
mental briar
The build is very tempermental. I get different compatibility than Kitrinx with ...
This is wild. You're right, the compatability is completely different between my two builds. AVP going strong on mister addons, won't get past the bios on retrocastle
Remind me which side is the main ram side
assuming ethernet is the bottom
small mural
No love for me even with DV set to 0. I get the same centered bar that can't hold sync. I'm going to go try it on my other dual ram (standard digital board, HDMI to a TV).
dense ravine
Now I really need to get that dual ram setup 😅
mental briar
I dunno if you guys were planning on a 1 and done release, or if you want testing done - but you have my thanks if it's the former, and my sword if it's the latter
keen zealot
I know someone from my friend (at Broke Studio) who will be quite excited to see the Jaguar on the MiSTer.
glad flame
Holy shit the Jaguar core lives again!
thorny swift
ok I dragged myself into office...core loaded...AvP seems to just black screen after jag cube spins
Doom loaded in
tropic rock
Just random info if anyone cares: The netlists are unchanged. Yes I spent months converting more than 100000 lines of code into something more readable, but other than trying to optomize parts, there are no logical changes in the lower layers from me. The only problem down low is the missing microcode ROM for the DSP. The GPU microcode was being used for both (they differ in 6/7 opcodes). I made educated guesses for them (and fixed a minor error in the GPU microcode for pack and unpack; that should probably be verified on real hardware). The rest of the changes are in Jaguar.v Jaguar.sv and the sdram code. It should be easy to back port to the original if anyone was so inclined.
thorny swift
Doom captured...Rayman next
if anyone gets AvP footage lmk...so far thats a bust
Rayman slows down but looks nice
mental briar
ok I dragged myself into office...core loaded...AvP seems to just black screen a...
I have only gotten AVP to load on my mister addons dual ram mister
keen zealot
It's missing to write the save to the SD card, otherwise Rayman is playable at least for the whole two first worlds.
thorny swift
I have only gotten AVP to load on my mister addons dual ram mister
failed on mine...dual 2.9 with OG Digital IO
with the first core...havent tried second yet
mental briar
failed on mine...dual 2.9 with OG Digital IO
mine is dual 3.0 with io direct
I haven't tried the new core
thorny swift
I have an IO direct in a box I can swap out but not tonight
tropic rock
FYI the difference between the two builds is likely just different timings. I was trying to reduce slacks with the changes for today (plus one change I dont think matters on the dsp bus)
The build happened to work well on my hardware
thorny swift
Iron Soldier test next
mental briar
I wish I had a capture card to grab AVP footage
thorny swift
I wish I had a capture card to grab AVP footage
you have a Johnny 5. How do you not have a capture card? lol
ashen spoke
Trevor McFur is also sometimes broke
From a certain perspective it's always broken 
mental briar
you have a Johnny 5. How do you not have a capture card? lol
Los lobos kick your balls into outer space
thorny swift
Iron Soldier works...but I cant move lol. Damn jaguar controller
there we go...moving now
keen zealot
Kasumi Ninja is horrible, and will always be.
thorny swift
Iron Soldier is...Iron soldier
keen zealot
Pinball Fantasies should be quite something to test, I need another controller.
dusk slate
Sad that I can't test this one out since I'm a single ram peasant! 
dense ravine
Sad that I can't test this one out since I'm a single ram peasant! <:marioohno:8...
Look on the bright side: we don’t have to play Jaguar games 😅
thorny swift
Kasumi next
keen zealot
Nor some 3D fighters on Saturn.
dense ravine
Nor some 3D fighters on Saturn.
That hurts
thorny swift
damn kasumi works...noooo
ashen spoke
Are the games fully playable, just unstable?
keen zealot
No Jaguar for you!
dense ravine
Hyped for a VGE video on this
keen zealot
And PCN, don't forget our British friend.
keen zealot
I told it.
thorny swift
hope the other core plays AvP so it can have a real win. That being said Skyhammer is impressive
dense ravine
And PCN, don't forget our British friend.
Oh, I scrolled up and saw someone already pinged him. Awesome!
keen zealot
That's all for me for today, happy testing everyone.
stoic jewel
AvP working here. Ultimate Mister with dual 128gb 3.0 ram. Only thing is: is the game supposed to look like this?
tropic rock
no
thorny swift
AvP working here. Ultimate Mister with dual 128gb 3.0 ram. Only thing is: is the...
playing as Predator?
thats cloaking
tropic rock
oh maybe
mental briar
itsworking.gif
tropic rock
Thats what mine looked like
ashen spoke
Seems like Predator vision is busted
thorny swift
Skyhammer works...def slower than hardware though
mental briar
she's a little wonky but she works
ashen spoke
So for dual ram, would having a 32mb stick for my second ram be acceptable for the core?
thorny swift
lol I have AvP audio...NO visuals
tropic rock
I havent quite got the ram timings to match yet. The Jaguar Ram can go very fast
mental briar
whenever you are ready for testing, greyrogue, you have my sword
tropic rock
I am using an old 32mb as my primary and an old 128 as secondary
thorny swift
trying OTHER core build now
ashen spoke
you're an OTHER core build
tropic rock
Max Rom size is 6MB so size doesnt matter (and I am only using one chip per module)
dense ravine
I am using an old 32mb as my primary and an old 128 as secondary
Why that way around? 😅
thorny swift
havent tried yet
stoic jewel
AvP works on the SECOND core, not the test builds core...for me
Is there a second core?
tropic rock
I am actually not seeing the glitches I was on older builds on the score marquee
Just power drive has them
ashen spoke
Maaaaaaan, honestly debating of taking apart my MiSTer just to test this new core lol
@tropic rock why must you be so cool
tropic rock
Build from earlier, Commit d9d2e27. So it is missing your last changes from the ...
Try this one if the one I posted doesnt work for you
It is likely functionally equivalent with different timings
thorny swift
Maaaaaaan, honestly debating of taking apart my MiSTer just to test this new cor...
Dont be a zero, be a hero! Test that core you MiSTer Whor....FAN!
thorny swift
Did you get NBA Jam bacon?
trying NBA Jam now
AvP was good...slower than OG and some glitches in effects but otherwise V good
ashen spoke
Do you have a Jaguar to compare against?
thorny swift
NBA Jam locks up at the logo
on the commit d9 core
reset and its past it
great white hope selected...JOHN STOCKTON
mental briar
oooo, so the zet build runs AVP? good to know
tropic rock
Stockton to Malone!
mental briar
I'll check it out when I'm back home
hidden siren
Super exited to see this! I'll convert my mister to dual core tomorrow and give it a go - its almost 1am here atm
thorny swift
Jam looks good
hidden siren
Supercool, all those involved! Thanks! PRetty excited for christmas tomorrow morning 🙂
thorny swift
just some garbage at the screen edges
thorny swift
all captured up
tropic rock
It is an artifact of the perspective they do
Could probably add a crop function for it
ashen spoke
Could probably add a crop function for it
I think that's definitely worth it. Just recently I helped a new user who thought some visual noise in the overscan from a game was a bug in a MiSTer core.
thorny swift
editing done...to VO for 4 PM
fresh urchin
I was resistant to set up a dual ram mister for the Saturn, but if I can play cybermorph I am all in 🤡
ashen spoke
I was resistant to set up a dual ram mister for the Saturn, but if I can play cy...
Where did you learn to dual ram.
fresh urchin
ashen spoke
ashen spoke
you have to disable direct video. add ```[jaguar]
direct_video=0``` to the miste...
ok cleaned up pins
waxen terrace
I am guessing the answer is no but will this ever work on single ram?
dense ravine
Never say never (but not yet)
mental briar
It’s a couple years late but the dual ram train is pulling into the station
dusk slate
That train rammed into the station.
mental briar
He’s been drinking
waxen terrace
I am half tempted to trash my analog IO board that I never use, get a Digital IO and a new case and a 3.0 128MB RAM stick, swap out my 2.9 as a secondaty and use 3.0 as primary and join the dual RAM train
dense ravine
I wonder if dual ram would have been the norm sooner if the tubemen hadn’t infiltrated our ranks
dense ravine
I am half tempted to trash my analog IO board that I never use, get a Digital IO...
You and me both, although I was thinking of just getting the 9.2 and shelving the mezzanine to avoid the need for a new case
waxen terrace
I have one of those acrylic cases but it will be nice to get one of those metal ones
dense ravine
Acrylic gang rise up!
mental briar
Is there a way to know if you have 2.9 vs 3.0 ram?
dense ravine
Silkscreen print?
thorny swift
That train rammed into the station.
its funny Station is your moms name
ashen spoke
I am guessing the answer is no but will this ever work on single ram?
Currently that’s not the focus but it’s not out of the question is my understanding.
But it would be very difficult to make it work with single ram.
thorny swift
ready for tomorrow
tropic rock
Pretty sure at least tempest would run with single ram
thorny swift
shit I forgot Tempest
thorny swift
Pretty sure at least tempest would run with single ram
lol wow I forgot tempest haha
ashen spoke
ready for tomorrow
Where’s the ladies
thorny swift
Will have to save it for part 2
thorny swift
Where’s the ladies
Jaguar has no ladies
ashen spoke
Cybermorph lady
mental briar
Technically the alien queen is a Disney princess
waxen terrace
Pretty sure at least tempest would run with single ram
if it ever happens I would happily play T2000 on a Jag core
dusk slate
its funny Station is your moms name
I mean, you would know dad!
sterile moss
Thank you GreyRogue and Kitrinx 🙂
dusk slate
Ahhhh fudge it! Porkchop has the ram on sale for $40. I'm getting on the Jaguar testing train! ||What am I doing with my life!? 
||
sterile moss
Haha, I finally set up my dual SDRAM from porkchop as my main system (previously a multisystem).
The saturn benefits and now this great surprise
dusk slate
Should be easy enough to install. I built my current setup myself in one of his digital IO boards and aluminum cases. Just gotta take apart the case again.
serene widget
okay kids, knock yourself out: https://discord.com/channels/647909397477195803/7...
We be getting a proper Mister Jaguar core before GTA VI!
unkempt cargo
what controller are people using on this?
mental briar
we definitely aren't buying https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Keyboard-Control-Touchpad-Controller/dp/B08NSXBZ4T.... right?
Porkchop is up in the lab making SNACs
sterile moss
I'm just using an xbox controller with numpad mapped to analog sticks and triggers atm
NOS original controllers are available but $$$
mild karma
hell yeah, I’m stoked to try this! Hopefully I can find some time tomorrow later today 🙏
sudden palm
oooo, so the zet build runs AVP? good to know
for me the core from test-builds works better than the one from Zet-Sensei (AvP black screen )
amazing progress , thank you for this core GreyRogue, Kitrinx , Torlus , ElctronAsh
thorny swift
what controller are people using on this?
Honestly I recommended people use a keyboard for now. At least for stuff like AvP. Treat it like a PC fps
rain sierra
what controller are people using on this?
Could probably get away with using an NTT Data pad if you have one of those already. They were pretty popular around here in the early MiSTer days so many of us have them rotting in drawers.
It has all the necessary buttons in the appropriate locations at least to mimic the non-pro controller.
keen zealot
for me the core from test-builds works better than the one from Zet-Sensei (AvP ...
Like each time, when we are testing with the Saturn core between us.
We must have something different between our mutual MiSTer systems.
sudden palm
Like each time, when we are testing with the Saturn core between us.
at the end we always come to the point that we have the same results 🙂
kindred drum
Finally, I'll get to try Jag
mental briar
for me the core from test-builds works better than the one from Zet-Sensei (AvP ...
yeah, the test build works better on my misteraddons dual ram build. Zet’s build is better on the retrocastle dual ram build.
I am wondering if my retrocastle build uses 2.9 ram
not sure when 3.0 ram came out, but I feel like it was a while ago. my retrocastle build is from july
sudden palm
i use only v2.9 or v2.9 + 32mb v2.2
mental briar
interesting. then yeah, I dunno what is causing the variance between the builds
rain sierra
Here we go again. RAM roulette!
mental briar
ehh, it’s just because the core is early. everything will settle eventually
BUUUUT
dual ram warriors RISE UP
thorny swift
Could probably get away with using an NTT Data pad if you have one of those alre...
damn thats an idea. I have the NES one
thorny swift
yeah, the test build works better on my misteraddons dual ram build. Zet’s build...
funny I had the opposite. The second test build ran AvP on my MiSTer Addons Dual 2.9V ram with standard digital IO. OG test core would only give me audio and no video on AvP
rain sierra
dual ram warriors RISE UP
But what combo is the question! My secondary stick is a janky V1 32MB that has been bodged for compatibility in a secondary slot lol.
thorny swift
Dual 128MB 2.9V Digital IO build
I can build a new test unit up if its of any help with dual ram and IO Direct
rain sierra
RAM timings must be tight for dual setups to perform differently from build to build.
uncut atlas
mm, all the timings are
it's failing timings pretty hard
it's very hard to optimize this core because of it's auto generated netlist style
rain sierra
"ChatGPT, please rearrange my netlist. Plz and thnx kk"
uncut atlas
grey did a lot to try to make it better but it's still using like a 100mhz clock
uncut atlas
"ChatGPT, please rearrange my netlist. Plz and thnx kk"
I tried this, it didnt go well
rain sierra
Whoa, that's pretty much the fabric limit right?
uncut atlas
sort of yeah
dealing with clocks that high the complexity of what you are applying them to matters a lot
and this code is like tons of combinational logic
jerry has loops if you feed it it's own output
for both address and data
the data bus is massive combinational chains
rain sierra
I'm getting DE25 vibes
uncut atlas
it would sure help, but in an ideal world we could reduce it to 3x or 2x clocks instead of 4x like it is now
but the ram really needs that 4x to cover the 64 bit bus
some part of the design also seems to, maybe chained latches
it's hard to tell
ashen spoke
@uncut atlas I am so mad at you. I just bought an Atari Jaguar controller and like 7 controller inlays because of this stupid core.
rain sierra
but the ram really needs that 4x to cover the 64 bit bus
Will be fun to see if you and Grey can pull a rabbit from a hat. Fingers crossed!
uncut atlas
<:marioohno:895710124742680669> <:linknoo:880489436201234542>
I'd like you to find a single time I have ever advocated that someone play an atari console
uncut atlas
fossil lintel
Running atract mode is not playing
uncut atlas
also, I know you searched and couldn't find one
mental briar
It’s just exciting to have someone passively (actively?) looking at it again. The amount of work that’s already been done is incredible
thorny swift
<@202844048229138433> I am so mad at you. I just bought an Atari Jaguar controll...
its not @uncut atlas fault you got all sex crazy with your wallet lol
ashen spoke
also, I know you searched and couldn't find one
lol I swear I didn’t search
thorny swift
I have the perfect controller for it somewhere here
tropic rock
This build doesnt work quite as well for me, but it merges in Kitrinxs pull request for latest sys.
ashen spoke
thorny swift
Somehow I will make this work lol
tropic rock
People have been asking about Direct Video. It occurred to me it might require this. No idea if this is enough
uncut atlas
People have been asking about Direct Video. It occurred to me it might require t...
I think the issue is the dual sdram disables the analog signals in the top level sys, which are used for DV
this is why also the menu doesnt show the analog timings
tropic rock
Is Direct Video the one that comes through hdmi?
uncut atlas
it does go through hdmi, but using original timing
thorny swift
Is Direct Video the one that comes through hdmi?
Yep
tropic rock
Ah
uncut atlas
technically a much higher H clock
tropic rock
Anyway, moving to latest sys is a good idea
faint laurel
um, I cant find the updated repo.. where is it?
mental briar
I can let you know if Direct Video works in a sec (if that’s useful - I’m also happy just having disabled for now)
tropic rock
Trevor McFur and Power Drive Rally crash for me with this one, but maybe others will have different behavior
Again probably just random build timing differences
thorny swift
Trevor McFur and Power Drive Rally crash for me with this one, but maybe others ...
Trevor McFur not working might be considered a benefit haha
mental briar
Tink4k still doesn't like direct video out of this version of the core (just straight up "HDMI No Signal"). I'll test some games tho
tropic rock
https://github.com/greyrogue/Jaguar_MiSTer/tree/rework
Yeah, thats it
ashen spoke
Trevor McFur not working might be considered a benefit haha
I made that joke already!
get joke’d on
mental briar
typical youtuber stealing everyone's jokes
fallow salmon
pretty cool to see some work being done on this !
thorny swift
I made that joke already!
coming from the guy who's yearbook said "Most likely to Be Trevor McFur"
ashen spoke
lmaaaaao
thorny swift
we all know the GOAT is Bubsy anyway
ashen spoke
Oh he’s like a jaguar Wing Commander dude lol
thorny swift
Bubsy on Jaguar was a real life simulator....no matter how hard you try SOMETHING is going to get in your way and screw you over
glad flame
"We have Star Fox at home"
ashen spoke
The composition of that box art is so bad lol
thorny swift
The composition of that box art is so bad lol
its giving "self published interspecies erotica" vibes
thorny swift
like a romance novel with animals
ashen spoke
Yeah the hugging cats is weird, but I don’t know anything about the game other than it’s a terrible horizontal shmup
serene widget
Bubsy on Jaguar was a real life simulator....no matter how hard you try SOMETHIN...
Bubsy the Bobcat may be a big cat, but he ain't a big cat. Like the Jaguar.
thorny swift
Bubsy the Bobcat may be a big cat, but he ain't a *big* cat. Like the Jaguar.
not to be confused with @ashen spoke favorite Flubsy the Knobcat
serene widget
For real, I feel like there should be a definitive list of the best games for Atari Jaguar, that are not just Rayman.
They did one for #1103404843512631357, so there should be one for Jaguar as well.
fresh urchin
Doom is pretty good other than missing music.
thorny swift
For real, I feel like there should be a definitive list of the best games for At...
Shh dont ruin next years series
"Games that Did the Math"
ashen spoke
not to be confused with <@314946127487172609> favorite Flubsy the Knobcat
lol flubsy
Like why did people like those games
thorny swift
AvP/Tempest/Rayman/Slyhammer/Black Ice White Noise (prototype but fascinating to play), Zero 5 (insanely hard but also awesome), Flashback, etc are all 100% worth playing
mental briar
The pack on Archive has a best of collection on it
I may run through some of those
really experience what the Jaguar has to offer outside my precious AVP
dusk slate
What does the Jaguar games folder need to be named? 
lucid oak
Just for you to know, i'm testing it in direct video mode with a CRT TV using RGBS connection
the last update to the original core works in this mode using dual ram, but the screen rolls a bit because the sync timming is way off
none of the new rbfs work in this mode right now for me
besides, great job! i know this is not a priority, just to let you guys know
dry cedar
I'm very happy to hear that jaguar is being worked on. By many talented devs
Jaguar does some tom and jerry shenanigans
thorny swift
What does the Jaguar games folder need to be named? <:bowserthink:91226360306586...
3DO
Because then it’s good
mental briar
thorny swift
The shade throwing will never end. Even though, from what I've seen, it's true.
Haha I love all consoles. Even the bad ones
serene widget
Me too. Especially if they get second chances in this day and age.
thorny swift
AvP is a banger
I am fascinated by the “Jaguar look”; that pseudo real time lighting glow that sticks around as the rest of the scene falls off into black
fossil lintel
and that at almost five whole frames per second
serene widget
The fact that it even runs, it's black magic.
dusk slate
Because then it’s good
Agreed! But seriously, I actually was asking for real... 
thorny swift
Agreed! But seriously, I actually was asking for real... <:eyes_squint:114263665...
“Jaguar”
I made a folder called “Jaguar”, shoved the games and renamed bios in there and let it rip
dusk slate
I made a folder called “Jaguar”, shoved the games and renamed bios in there and ...
Figured it would be that simple!
Got everything set up. Just need to wait for that sweet sweet ram to arrive.
mental briar
I am fascinated by the “Jaguar look”; that pseudo real time lighting glow that s...
this game is so bad incredible
atomic mirage
retrotink 4k has a hdcp error? anyone experienced it on this? I tried using search to avoid posting but didnt come up with anything
nm found it , dv = 0... I should have searched tink instead of retrotink 😆
small sail
@tropic rock hot damn, the core is just wow
mental briar
retrotink 4k has a hdcp error? anyone experienced it on this? I tried using sear...
It's very weird. Normally it would just display messed up but instead the tink gives up and is like "man, I dunno what this is"
mild karma
bios just needs to be named boot.rom I presume?
thorny swift
bios just needs to be named boot.rom I presume?
yep
mild karma
nice
thorny swift
usually its jagbios.something or other when you DL it online
but it gets renamed to boot
mild karma
mine is different...guess we'll see if it works
thorny swift
mine is different...guess we'll see if it works
if it works you will see a red screen that says Jaguar. Thats just the systems natural state when powered on with no cart in
thorny swift
and that at almost five whole frames per second
its not a fast game
mild karma
guess I'll have to wait becuase I decided to run update_all and it seems to be stuck on downloading xmen.zip even though I already have that file
graceful oracle
mild karma
guess I'll have to wait becuase I decided to run update_all and it seems to be s...
honestly not sure if I should just wait this out or try to cancel update_all
thorny swift
honestly not sure if I should just wait this out or try to cancel update_all
if you arent on the main distro update portion you can just turn it off. Ive done it dozens of times when it hangs
(that being said if this is the ONE time it jacks shit up dont yell at me lol)
mild karma
yeah I'm not too worried
I'm just curious why it's even attempting to download it at all...like, maybe it detected that my copy isn't from the same mame set as the one it's grabbing so it's "updating" it for me? 🤔
dusk slate
guess I'll have to wait becuase I decided to run update_all and it seems to be s...
Yeah, it's been messed up there for awhile now. I had to turn off the arcade rom downloading from update all.
mild karma
makes sense
unreal siren
Do u need dualram for the new Jag core? So exited xD
dusk slate
Dual ram is indeed required.
stoic jewel
AvP working here. Ultimate Mister with dual 128gb 3.0 ram. Only thing is: is the...
Am I the only one who is getting this image (hub) playing with Predator? The hub image playing with Alien and Human are ok
warm oasis
Amazing to see this core come back to life and be much more stable now. 🙂
This was the testing sheet I did a couple of years ago and logged what was running then and various issues found.
If anyone testing wants to update the sheet with what is all working now and update comments then just request edit access
thorny swift
Am I the only one who is getting this image (hub) playing with Predator? The hub...
You guys sure you just haven’t hit the cloaking button?
thorny swift
This was the testing sheet I did a couple of years ago and logged what was runni...
Gonna be seeing a lot more great on it
Trying to find the request button on iOS. Stupid Google
dense ravine
Woah, there’s only 50 + 13 (cart + CD) games on the Jaguar?
Gonna make testing much easier than… the Saturn
thorny swift
Accessed requested @warm oasis
warm oasis
Yeah a much more manageable library
thorny swift
I’ll fill in what I’ve tested as it’s a lot of the list
stoic jewel
Yes, I am sure. The game begins with that image.
thorny swift
Yes, I am sure. The game begins with that image.
Thats semi normal
All the wall and floor textures are correct. The HUD is corrupted
warm oasis
Is there a pack out there of the various homebrew games for Jaguar? I remember not finding one when I was looking a couple of years back
tropic rock
I made a mistake in the color saturation in my code rework
It is also why when playing the marine the hud goes black instead of bright green when it overlaps something bright
thorny swift
It is also why when playing the marine the hud goes black instead of bright gree...
I mentioned that in the vid. Small thing. I’m impressed it looks as good as it does already
ashen spoke
What’s the Jaguar top 5?
dense ravine
What’s the Jaguar top 5?
Alien v Predator, Wolfenstein 3D have to be up there for sure. Presumably Doom and Rayman too
tropic rock
Tempest 2000 is frequently mentioned
dense ravine
Tempest 2000 is frequently mentioned
You beat me to it 😄
ashen spoke
I ordered a new controller today along with a buncha repro controller overlays. Unfortunately they didn’t have Tempest 2000 or Rayman ones.
dusk slate
Tempest 2000 is very good indeed.
dense ravine
A Jeff Minter classic 😎
(Check out Polybius in VR if you haven’t and have the means to)
pure oracle
Core is looking beautiful! Thanks @tropic rock and @uncut atlas
thorny swift
What’s the Jaguar top 5?
AvP, Tempest 2000, Rayman, Iron Soldier 2, Skyhammer
pure oracle
Any chances of having a single core version of it in the future?
lucid oak
cybermorph and iron soldier are very cool too, although quite dated by today standards
warm oasis
Is the core supporting 4 players for those handful of games now?
tropic rock
NBA Jam is mentioned too
thorny swift
Towers II is a guilty pleasure. It’s not top 5 but I enjoy it. Zero 5 is a ton of fun but holy shit is it hard
Towers II is like bizarro world Shadowgate 64
uncut atlas
Is the core supporting 4 players for those handful of games now?
that's an extra device, not added yet, but the second controller should work now I think? that might not have gotten merged
team tap thingie for nba jam
there was also jaglink which I guess could just get run to user io
mental briar
Oh shit we have a moon spreadsheet. I am ready to test
mental briar
and this
It’s definitely not outputting out of the hdmi port correctly. The poor tink4k doesn’t know what to do with it
warm oasis
Just ping me an edit request for the sheet if you don't have it 🙂
lucid oak
It’s definitely not outputting out of the hdmi port correctly. The poor tink4k d...
yeah, making more tests, found that direct_video was not activated, it is a strange behavior (or not, clearly i'm not very knowledgeable about this lol)
what i found out is that when direct_video is 1 in the config file, sync on the vga adapter will output a rougly 60hz square waves output (a bunch of square waves in a group repeating with rougly 10khz frequency)
what i just noted is that with direct_video = 0 there is a 31khz sync that can correctly work on PC monitors, and it works, it is strange
lucid oak
It’s definitely not outputting out of the hdmi port correctly. The poor tink4k d...
do tink4k supports 31khz signals? try setting the config file with direct_video = 0; composite_sync = 1 and forced_scandoubler = 0
i don't know if this is a bug on my mister, because i suposed that with direct_video = 0 nothing would happen, but well
tranquil cape
Direct video is original console output so it would be 15khz for CRT TVs. DV off with the scaler on is correct for 31khz
lucid oak
Direct video is original console output so it would be 15khz for CRT TVs. DV off...
thats it then
glad flame
So does the core just lack the metadata for DV1?
lucid oak
looking at my osciloscope, i think both v_sync and h_sync are the same signal??? with direct_video = 1
h_sync
v_sync
this probably explains it
(ignore that 89-90hz in the side, this osciloscope sucks at low frequencies)
mental briar
do tink4k supports 31khz signals? try setting the config file with direct_video ...
oh it works fine if I disable direct video.
mental briar
Just ping me an edit request for the sheet if you don't have it 🙂
requested
mental briar
added a tester column so we know who is committing these...sins
added 1995's hottest title to the list Arena Footbal '95 as we were somehow missing it
thorny swift
added a tester column so we know who is committing these...sins
Put me down as Dong Johnson pls
mental briar
are you sure you want to give your full name. i wouldn't want anyone to dox you
thorny swift
🤣
thorny swift
Perfection
Plenty of people know my real ACTUAL name. I keep the 2x4 with the nails through it next to the door
mental briar
@thorny swift were you testing with today's core? Or the core Zet posted yesterday?
thorny swift
<@484201598218928128> were you testing with today's core? Or the core Zet posted...
All yesterdays main core minus AvP which was Zet
mental briar
ok
lucid oak
club drive is playable on the latest rbf, don't know if is completable, i really don't know if i can take the torture of finishing that game
glad flame
Great thing about the Atari Jaguar is that there aren't a lot of games, so it's pretty straightforward to vet the library for problems.
tropic rock
Finally got a good build
In test-builds
Modifying 100000 lines of code by hand, I was bound to have made a mistake in one or two.
The code is pushed, if anyone else wants to try and build one that works better for them.
For me, all the trouble games run (AvP, Power Drive Rally, Trevor McFur, etc)
mild karma
yeah I just tried the test build and everything I’ve thrown at it works pretty well so far…I was going to request access to the testing sheet, but I see that it appears to be at 100% of the (official) library tested already 
sterile moss
Awesome, new build fixes the 'red intermittently showing as blue' issue I was seeing in Doom also 🙂
mild karma
oh wow I didn’t even use the latest build
fickle folio
@tropic rock thank you so much for giving this core some love. Can I ask whether the framework has been updated? I tried using direct video the other day and was met with a black screen.
mental briar
<@498116541259186176> thank you so much for giving this core some love. Can I as...
I haven’t tested with the build Grey released an hour ago, but all the builds before that didn’t work with dv. Grey mentioned a framework update this morning, I think, but that build also didn’t work for dv
This is the latest core. As soon as I get these kids down, I’ll start testing again #test-builds message
mild karma
Dang, I get sound from AvP using @keen zealot 's build from yesterday...from tonight's build, just a black screen and the music stops a few seconds after it starts
oh wait, reloading it on tonight's build worked
ah well, I got to the title screen, made a selection and it crashed to black screen
tropic rock
<@498116541259186176> thank you so much for giving this core some love. Can I as...
I merged Kitrinx's pull request to update the framework. I am not familiar enough with direct video to know what else is missing. It is possible the syncs are not all hooked up at the top layer. https://github.com/greyrogue/Jaguar_MiSTer/commit/8acfe0f4601d77a68152e4f5ddf927a346916d62
tropic rock
ah well, I got to the title screen, made a selection and it crashed to black scr...
Sorry. It runs for me and I dont know when a build will work for anyone else. Timings are still terrible. A random build with the same code might get you a build that works on yours.
mild karma
@tropic rock yep no worries! I've hung around here long enough to know it's just the luck of the draw in these early stages a lot of the time
probably a thing where the 10th time I load it, it will just randomly work
lol and right after I said that, now I get to the character select screen
lyric pelicanBOT
.HSync(vga_hs_n), // input HSync
yep, in-game now on AvP
tropic rock
Based on the message immediately above that I wonder if those two signals are inverted; ( _n usually means low true)
tropic rock
yep, in-game now on AvP
Have fun
mental briar
avp loads on both my de10 nanos with the latest build
I will start over with testing
this core runs things a bit better too
mild karma
I am getting random crashes/graphical corruptions here and there on mine...now I just power cycled the MiSTer and suddenly nothing boots, not even the bios
mental briar
Where are the roms/bios located? on the SD card?
mental briar
make sure its mounted
mental briar
I had the same issue when I booted the core before cigs mounted
yeah, that’s what happened to me
I booted the core before it mounted
mild karma
that could have been it
mild karma
yeah that's probably what it was
mental briar
it is fucking wild that these are games they expected you to pay money for
mild karma
managed to get Fight for Life running once and it crashed after the character select screen...now it just seems to crash on the title screen every time
mental briar
Attack of the mutant penguins still crashes after character select
mild karma
Trevor McFur seems to work now
though, it didn't work for me until my second try
crashed after title screen the first try
mental briar
What ram do you have?
mild karma
I have one MiSTerAddons 2.9 and one first batch Taki ram
warm oasis
Greayrougue, do you think further work might alleviate some of these timing and stability issues? Are there more things you want to do on the core?
mild karma
Trevor McFur seems to work now
actually, I'll downgrade to "Runnable"...crashed on me later in the first level
mental briar
its honestly wild how well this core works
low dome
does this only work with HDMI out? I tried with the saturn cable output and nothing happens
mental briar
direct video currently isn’t working
low dome
ok, thanks. hopefully soon
tropic rock
Greayrougue, do you think further work might alleviate some of these timing and ...
Certainly possible. How much is hard to say right now. There are places in the core that dont use the main clock to change states. They need to be carefully studied to see if they can be simplified
warm oasis
Nice, hopefully that allows for yet more improvements 🙂
How is the core space wise? Is there head room for potentially more features, like cheats?
mild karma
don’t tell me you’re a shmup fan unless you know who this is
mental briar
No seriously, these games are all bad
it’s incredible
This is “Too preoccupied with the fact that they could, they didn’t consider whether or not they should” the system
Also, why is B the confirm button
it’s the middle button
it’s all wrong
mental briar
its b to open and select options in the main menu for most games it seems like
Although I’m only through I
You think they rolled a d8 to order these menus?
tropic rock
Nice, hopefully that allows for yet more improvements 🙂
There are certain things that should be added. Multiple controllers, eeprom saving to file. Probably room for cheats. The main concern is timing is so bad, adding anything might make timings for the existing stuff harder to meet. The emptier it is the more possibilities there are for the compiler to stumble into a good build.
warm oasis
Ah, do some games not have saving currently?
tropic rock
There also might be some simplifications that can be made like tom can be set up for either (big endian or little endian) mode and (68k or other). Since the jaguar as wired only runs in one mode, some of that logic could be disabled.
eeprom is implemented, but it isnt saved to file
lost when power is turned off or a new game overwrites it
warm oasis
Oh, so if I am reading that right it is using less than half the available resources/space?
mental briar
Ok, heading to bed. 40+ games tested on the latest build. I added the games in the HGTDB pack that weren't on the sheet. More tomorrow.
Some really impressive work @tropic rock
tropic rock
Oh, so if I am reading that right it is using less than half the available resou...
yep
vast reef
Can't see that's it been asked, but I assume odds aren't great of single ram support in the future?
tropic rock
I suspect Tempest 2000 will run with single ram, possibly without noticeable slowness
uncut atlas
Based on the message immediately above that I wonder if those two signals are in...
they arent
just the name was never updated
jaguar.sv needs a lot of code cleanup like that
small sail
mine is different...guess we'll see if it works
Off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure mine is called jagboot.rom
sterile moss
the one from from htgdb set works
[BIOS] Atari Jaguar (World).j64 MD5 BCFE348C565D9DEDB173822EE6850DEA
small sail
@tropic rock do you have a Patreon or Kofi, or any links you'd like added to the videos description?
If all goes well, I plan on doing a jaguar stream this weekend, I usually share a banner on screen showing developer details in the stream.
Please feel free to DM me any details you'd like added to descriptions or live stream banners.
urban mango
Many thanks for the continuing work on the core folks, much appreciated. I still have a Jaguar that gets a bit of use from time to time (a T2K machine really plus the occasional homebrew)
small sail
Many thanks for the continuing work on the core folks, much appreciated. I still...
Are you able to provide me some information on homebrew stuff. I'd love to have some handy for a stream.
olive pagoda
Does anyone have the Mortal Kombat Jaguar version running on MiSTer?
urban mango
Are you able to provide me some information on homebrew stuff. I'd love to have ...
There's a couple of threads on Atari Age forums with some lists that may be worth a look? Lots of ST ports as someone already pointed out, as well as some original. I enjoy Rebooteroids! Gravitic Mines I liked, note that some homebrew doesn't run on the core currently. I use a GameDrive cart.
nimble sorrel
Hello, exists a new updated RBF file about Jaguar core?
sudden palm
Hello, exists a new updated RBF file about Jaguar core?
#test-builds message
stoic jewel
Tried AvP using yesterday´s new build but it didn´t works for me. Now , when I load the game, I got a black screen (only with sound)
mild karma
the one from from htgdb set works
[BIOS] Atari Jaguar (World).j64 MD5 BCFE...
Yep, this is the one I am using
mild karma
Tried AvP using yesterday´s new build but it didn´t works for me. Now , when I l...
That one is finicky for me too. I could only get it to work using the latest build from yesterday, but I had to load the game a half dozen times before it finally got to gameplay for me.
dense ravine
Just saw a picture of the Jaguar controller. What on earth is that monstrosity?!
Did Atari expect it might also be used as a telephone? 😂
ashen spoke
Did Atari expect it might also be used as a telephone? 😂
The concept behind it was to provide a generic and dense layout that could be repurposed a multitude of ways for games. Most photos of the controller omit the plastic overlay you’d slot in over the keypad which you’d use to know what buttons to press.
Here’s an example of a game overlay that uses very few of the keypad buttons:
urban mango
I never found it very comfortable to play with
thorny swift
@pearl slate I feel like this is a new cottage industry since you have the whole NFC sticker printing and design stuff going on
gonna be a lot more people who want overlays soon
dense ravine
The concept behind it was to provide a generic and dense layout that could be re...
Yeah, the idea isn’t so bad, but the implementation seems kinda poor
@ashen spoke don’t get any ideas for a special Borderlands controller
ashen spoke
lol my friends did that and I was like “in 10 years Nintendo will release a controller where that actually works!”
and I was right
And my name is Robstradamus
thorny swift
And my name is Robstradamus
"Robstradamu predicts VGE will make fun of him"
sudden palm
Tried AvP using yesterday´s new build but it didn´t works for me. Now , when I l...
no luck for me this time either 🙂
mental briar
that's with the latest #test-builds build?
sudden palm
yes
mental briar
There is definitely still some unknown variance at play. Italian Grandma was having issues with games that were playing fine for me
On the original release from 2 days ago, my misteraddons dual ram would load AVP, but my retrocastle one wouldn't. On last night's build, it plays on both
Based on absolutely no technical knowledge, channelling pure white guy confidence, I wonder if it has to do with ram versions.
since a lot of folks are like "oh shit, I need dual ram, what do I have laying around?"
tropic rock
This shouldnt have any meaningful differences from the last test build. I am merging in Kitrinx's pr a piece at a time and got what is another good build for me. Maybe it will work better than yesterdays for some people (or not)
A good build for me runs Trevor McFur, Power Drive Rally and AvP that all seem to run without issue (except the glitches in the snow track seen in attract mode in PDR which fixes itself by turning on turbo)
The timing differences between builds are really like overclocking. It could be ram, it could be the board (even different between boards built by Terrassic). The build is saying I cant go that fast, and we run it anyway and hope we get lucky
urban mango
This one wouldn’t run AvP for me but 2024113 did
tropic rock
Stick with whichever works better for you
There arent any meaningful differences (I think)
urban mango
Out of interest, if you’re building in quartus, what do you look for to indicate?
tropic rock
I wish I knew. I test those three games
Usually trying to get closer to 0 with negative slacks is what you want (If they were above zero, we wouldnt have issues), but the best ones I have seen so far -3.1 or even -2.9 didn't work, while -3.6 did. Because which signals have those bad slacks are changing it is hard to know which one to concentrate on
Good build
ashen spoke
@uncut atlas new YouTube video just dropped on the Jaguar core
tropic rock
Some of the failing signals
uncut atlas
spite
rotund portal
Great to see the core getting more love.
I'm having a peek at the code again, and it's bringing back both good and terrible memories of the last time we looked at it. lol
rotund portal
Yeah.
rotund portal
I can see already, it's neatened up.
uncut atlas
there's a lot of fixes to connections too
rotund portal
What did Grey say were the main issues with getting more games working? Mainly timings / paths that were way too long?
uncut atlas
some of the flipflops, bus seperation, joystick selects were wrong, there was a couple of floating gates connecting one of the priority pins on tom, etc
rotund portal
I wish I knew how to use TimeQuest properly. It's a dark art.
uncut atlas
added the adc
rotund portal
Ahh, interesting.
tropic rock
The rewritten netlists code is in Rework
uncut atlas
the ebus is a whole seperate bus gated by some chips too and the ebus select wasn't used
so it could drive at the wrong times, protected mostly only by ternary priority
rotund portal
Remember many years ago, I uttered the words "Wouldn't it be great, if we just had the original Netlists for these consoles"?...
I was wrong. lol
'cos even with the great work Torlus did on the translation, man, it's a rough core to work on. lol
tropic rock
FC signals were wrong. Timing was bad. Eeprom had a bad reset. And the dsp was using the gpu opcode microwords (differs in 6/7 opcodes)
rotund portal
I really hated how many of the main busses weren't combined into a bus.
But even that looked like a nightmare to fix.
uncut atlas
the 68k bus also could drive at the wrong times
tropic rock
All the buses in all the files are now buses
rotund portal
Oh, were FC (Function Code) bits swapped, or inverted?
uncut atlas
the pull downs could be misrepresented
tropic rock
No required output enable handling
uncut atlas
ie 101
rotund portal
ahh.
I'm having flashbacks now, to things like this...
wire fx68k_vpa_n = 1'b1; // The real Jag has VPA_N on the 68K tied High. Which means it's NOT using auto-vector for the interrupt.
ie. discovering that the Jag doesn't actually make use of Auto-Vectoring, or something.
rotund portal
Oh, that's right, we were looking at that PDF last time.
But yeah, great work on getting so many more games working.
For some reason, my brain thought AVP was kinda running on some older builds, but probably not?
Attack of the Penguins thing, was super messed-up in the intro, and often crashed.
uncut atlas
rotund portal
Oh. lol
tropic rock
So far havent found any bugs in the netlist code (except the wrong microcde opcodes in the rom)
rotund portal
Grey, did you figure out what on Earth the TLW signal was really doing / why it exists?
reg tlw, tlw1, tlw2; // Transparent Latch Write?
We assumed it was something like Transparent Latch control.
tropic rock
And the mistakes I made in reworking them
rotund portal
But it fed through so many other regs.
uncut atlas
tlw is basically negedge
rotund portal
Ahh, OK.
uncut atlas
it's generated internally in the chips as simply negedge vclk
rotund portal
I think Torlus had to add TLW, or something.
tropic rock
It is what it says it is transparent latch write
uncut atlas
im not sure why we dont use the internal one
rotund portal
To kind of... "emulate" the ASIC stuff?
tropic rock
It is used to hold signals still while they get latched
rotund portal
Yeah, but I think I might have taken a guess at the name. lol
tropic rock
One use is to accept the data from the ram
rotund portal
TLW was one of the main reasons we couldn't really save any more SDRAM clock cycles, or something.
uncut atlas
right, this is typical to only latch data on negedge when the bus is stable
rotund portal
(or at least made it much harder to simplify the states for TLW vs fx68 clocks.)
uncut atlas
it doesnt have to be symetrical, it can be the last cycle before posedge vclk
tropic rock
The problem is I think they use it to start processing the ram before the cycle completes. Or at least that was something I wanted to check
rotund portal
When Kitrinx and I last looked at it, we were trying to see if we could get longer Burst transfers working.
tropic rock
Running it through a mux for byte positioning for example
rotund portal
'cos the Jag quite often does longer bursts, for framebuffer read/write, or Object List stuff?
uncut atlas
grey redid the memory controller a lot to make it faster and make the refresh cycles less disruptive
uncut atlas
we dont use single sdram
tropic rock
Refresh for the sdram is now done when the jag wants to refresh the dram
uncut atlas
it's a lot
rotund portal
I was helping painting fences and other stuff at my sister's today, so my brain is fried. lol
uncut atlas
I hate that I practically have the motherboard schematic memorized
rotund portal
lol
tropic rock
The timing for when the refresh is needed almost exactly matches what the sdram needs
rotund portal
I have vague memories of the timings, where only one of the chips would access the main bus at a time.
They made it fairly generic, so different CPU types could be used.
uncut atlas
well, that was a thing grey and I commented on
even though it's technically capable of using cart and dram at the same time, it doesnt
rotund portal
(well, whatever Atari wanted to call the "CPU", as apparently the 68K was only really intended for housekeeping.)
rotund portal
I had a brief chat with Leonard Tramiel on Faceplant once, and he was still saying the Jag had "five processors", whatever that means.
rotund portal
You know, in the same way the SNES had "five processors", if you count the two VDPs, CPU, SPU, and SuperFX. lol
tropic rock
dsp 68k blitter object and gpu
rotund portal
In a similar way to the Dreamcast being marketed as "128-bit". Those were the days.
tropic rock
The documentation names the 5 somewhere as those
uncut atlas
they didnt make great use of the 64 bit bus tbh
the fact jerry can't operate at higher bits than the external cpu which limited to 16 seems sad
rotund portal
assign os_rom_q = (abus_out[16:0]==17'h0136E && status[2]) ? 8'h60 : os_rom_dout; // Patch the BEQ instruction to a BRA, to skip the cart checksum fail.
urban mango
Usually trying to get closer to 0 with negative slacks is what you want (If they...
Yeah, I can see it’d be a mare - I just tried my own build from your fork which differs again - this time pinball fantasies has current music but AvP booting is unreliable :/
uncut atlas
```v
assign os_rom_q = (abus_out[16:0]==17'h0136E && status[2]) ? 8'h60 : os_rom...
this is the normal hack to boot insecure games
rotund portal
I recall the "OS" ROM as being super small.
Oh yep - Torlus wrote a super tiny OS ROM originally.
I think we tweaked the core, to just load directly from the cart header ROM thingy?
uncut atlas
the thing is the bios initializes a lot of things and there are two versions
one was for the original K series and one was for the later M series that used the revised motorola versions of tom and jerry
they needed extra delays or something
rotund portal
Interesting.
uncut atlas
the netlist appear to be for the M series
rotund portal
Oh, so it still loads the OS ROM from SD card?
wire [7:0] os_rom_din = (!os_lsb) ? ioctl_data[7:0] : ioctl_data[15:8];
yes, jaguar bios
uncut atlas
eventually we should fix the rom masking and loading so you can use alternate bioses
there's a few like stubulator and etc
not very important other than novelty
rotund portal
Laughing at some of this...
wire [7:0] loader_be = (loader_en && loader_addr[2:0]==0) ? 8'b11000000 :
(loader_en && loader_addr[2:0]==2) ? 8'b00110000 :
(loader_en && loader_addr[2:0]==4) ? 8'b00001100 :
(loader_en && loader_addr[2:0]==6) ? 8'b00000011 :
8'b11111111;
Some are like 5 seconds faster
rotund portal
But I guess it's the only reasonable way to do it.
uncut atlas
a faster bios would be nice
rotund portal
Sorg would probably have used the fancy "bit select shift" thing.
uncut atlas
it's annoying to wait for it to security check stuff like doom
tropic rock
I have discovered bit shifts are terrible for timing. Do not use if you care
At least ones with variable shifts
tropic rock
Rather than shifting 0-7 bits, it is better to use a mux
rotund portal
I always thought something like bit shifts would kinda synthesize using muxes?
Quartus is weird.
It's super fussy about some stuff, quite smart about others.
tropic rock
Maybe it is specific to something else in the surrounding code, but they were destroying my timings
rotund portal
I might have to pick your brain some time, to learn more about timing constraints.
I tried using TimeQuest so many times, read through the manual. Still don't get it. lol
I kind of get the principles, but not how to go about making the changes needed to actually help.
oic, that Checksum patch was added as an OSD option. Fair enough.
tropic rock
I still dont know exactly what Im doing. I just look at the signals it complains about and make guesses at what might be implemented poorly by the compiler. Another one that seemed to help: if adding two numbers and you want to add in a carry, expand down by one bit (using the carry bit as both of the new inputs) instead of adding a third operand
rotund portal
Trust me, I don't think any of us know. lol
wire ram_rdy = ~ch1_req && ((mem_cyc == `RAM_IDLE) || ch1_ready); // Latency kludge.
That was something along the lines of "If I use these signals as combo logic, I can assert ram_rdy one or two clocks earlier.)
Which could be good or bad.
Same here...
wire ram_read_req = (dram_oe_n != 4'b1111); // The use of "startcas" lets us get a bit lower latency for READ requests. (dram_oe_n bits only asserted for reads? - confirm!")
Was hunting for signals from the core, which asserted a bit sooner.
thorny swift
Trust me, I don't think any of us know. lol
90% knowledge, 10% luck
rotund portal
10% Jag.
tropic rock
I am still looking at that trying to pull the address early
rotund portal
I think there was also a thing about it only supporting 32-bit cart access atm...
// 32-bit cart mode...
//
assign cart_q = (!abus_out[2]) ? DDRAM_DOUT[63:32] : DDRAM_DOUT[31:00];
But IIRC, quite a few homebrew ROMs used 16-bit mode?
And I don't think there's an easy way to tell.
Something to do with the first bit of code from the cart header maybe?
Another place to check...
case (mem_cyc)
`RAM_IDLE: if (ch1_req) mem_cyc <= `RDY_WAIT;
`RDY_WAIT: if (ch1_ready) mem_cyc <= `RAM_IDLE;//`RAM_END;
`RAM_END: if (dram_cas_n) mem_cyc <= `RAM_IDLE;// Have to wait for dram_cas_n to go high here.
endcase
'cos that dram_cas_n thing was probably me, trying to find a signal to go back to idle on.
Is the audio less sucky now? lol
glad flame
Sounds like typical Jaguar jank.
rotund portal
One of the major issues with sound not working in games before, was due to the I2S block DMA thing.
uncut atlas
cas_n is the thing that determans oe for the ram chips
so it's outputting til cas goes up
rotund portal
It had a signal which was out-of-sync with the IRQ, so it was missing the new audio sample each time.
rotund portal
so it's outputting til cas goes up
Might be OK for now, then.
tropic rock
A ot of the sound issues were the wrong dsp microcode opcodes
rotund portal
Ohh.
thorny swift
Something to do with the first bit of code from the cart header maybe?
if I remember correctly I think it does set a flag in the header
tropic rock
rotund portal
I could be wrong, but some homebrew might even use 8-bit cart access, if that's even a thing.
thorny swift
whenever TF I read about Jaguar last
uncut atlas
I assume 16 bit means it uses just one chip in the cart and half the bus so the data is interleaved differently
rotund portal
https://github.com/greyrogue/Jaguar_MiSTer/commit/d9d2e27af898a19da61da3c7b35c7c...
How do you even go about finding issues like that? lol Using emulators as a reference, etc?
tropic rock
Tom should handle the byte rearranging
uncut atlas
grey did it by being a hero
uncut atlas
and just combing the netlists
typical cart is 2 roms and an eeprom
so it's just one rom carts I guess
tropic rock
I had to manually trace the dsp code with signal tap. I saw one of the misbehaving opcodes
rotund portal
Nice.
Would there be much advantage to trying to shove the separate bus bits into an actual bus?
I guess it wouldn't make much difference for timings?
rotund portal
Erm, I think so...
uncut atlas
probably bios sets it
uncut atlas
but the data fetch would be wrong unless the rom files have a lot of padding
tropic rock
Its one of the config registers
uncut atlas
because like, we just assume the data is in 32 bit words