#Sega Saturn

1 messages · Page 116 of 1

celest lake
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Gents, I think it may be time to admit that the saturn core is as done as its gonna be

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Not the dual ram core, of course - plenty of room there for activities

ivory kindle
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does that mean we get to admit that dual ram is now a requirement

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damnit

thorn pagoda
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we've been here before, srg will just download some more mhz into the core

ivory kindle
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what goes into the luck of getting the core to compile, cosmic dust?

celest lake
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I imagine zet is trying a bunch of seeds

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and waiting until one fits

ivory kindle
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i like pumpkin, but sunflower are good too

ripe valley
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You're up to try to compile it again.

ivory kindle
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the only difference in 0322 and 0323 is jotegos lint changes - does 0322 have the issue with vsync_adjust=0?

ripe valley
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Last time 0323, seed 6 was 'victorious'.

topaz dome
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I might jump in and get another setup wit h dual ram, but is it honestly worth the money?

ripe valley
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I checked the innerwards of the Saturn architecture the last two times, but forgot to test some options on the MiSTer side.
Sorry about that.

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See you next week, I must go.

ivory kindle
topaz dome
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Well, i have a japanese 3d0 with 240p 480i switch and an rgb mod with a 3do ode

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But is it certian that 3do will only work with a dual ram configuration?

ivory kindle
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for now

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but, possibly forever

topaz dome
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Oh well

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If it's required i might get

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My biggest gripe is not having analog out. then again, direct video should achieve the same result

celest lake
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If you're using analog out, I would wait

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unless you're chomping at the bit for jaguar and 3do

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which, I mean, who among us...

topaz dome
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I have a jaguar with a jaguar sd cartridge

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So I don't mind waiting

glossy steppe
river wing
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Does Daytona USA (USA) work for you guys with the latest unstable core + unstable MiSTer Main?
It's detected as an unsuitable disc now, it was working with older versions of the core.

celest lake
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set the region to auto

stiff latch
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Literally what happened to me the other day

sacred goblet
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What is the purpose of "Fast timing" option?

mortal mist
ripe valley
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srg320 pushed the last changes on the SH-2 during last hour, those were seen with some tests some days ago.

Maybe Jotego will be interested too.

burnt matrix
ripe valley
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Thanks Robby.

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I can't compile anything until next week.

celest lake
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Ok good, I can stop this monster DSE run I had going trying to find a good version of the core

ripe valley
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Yeah.

celest lake
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doesn't look like it triggered an unstable build yet

ancient surge
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Once again, no single RAM build.

burnt matrix
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pins update; no new Saturn single ram build as that needs to be manually done

celest lake
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god this saturn core is so hard to build

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DSE is almost all red

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I can't wait to see how many successful builds there are out of this 100 run DSE

ripe valley
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Now, you know.

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Last time, I launched 20 compilations, only two finished and only one was 'acceptable' concerning the timings.

winter phoenix
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32 years later and the Sega Saturn is still too powerful to emulate

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Humanity's technical prowess may actually have peaked with the Sega Saturn

ripe valley
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And some people at Ymir began to read our issue tickets since yesterday.

They are performing some of our older tests on their side too with the next version of the emulator.
Some are doing great, some others not at all.

Some bugs will probably remain on software emulation (at least for some times).
Or you will need to wait 3-4 years before the next CPU generation & better RAM.

srg320 once said to me something like that FPGA architecture could be sometimes better for doing some kind of calculations, especially when you need true parallelism.

ancient surge
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This is why Segata Sanshiro is so powerful. Only a man of his status can handle the might of SEGA Saturn.

glossy steppe
mortal mist
celest lake
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did the unstable not have good timing?

mortal mist
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I have no idea how it is now, but I'd like to try doing it myself

celest lake
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i think i’m build on 23 and I have gotten…..6?…that finished. Likely 0 that have met timing

mortal mist
# celest lake did the unstable not have good timing?

#9 2300.4 Critical Warning (332148): Timing requirements not met
#9 2300.4 Info (11105): For recommendations on closing timing, run Report Timing Closure Recommendations in the TimeQuest Timing Analyzer.
#9 2300.4 Info (332146): Worst-case setup slack is -0.042

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unstable

celest lake
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remember when we were a proper core?!?!

ripe valley
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I never succeeded with good timings since years on the core compilation.
Just slack should be minimal.

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"-0.042, not great, no bad"

mortal mist
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The last good one I had was in December

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good timings

celest lake
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seems like it’s like n64

ripe valley
tawny forge
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savestates support wen

mortal mist
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We don't even have room for a single core 😄

mortal mist
ripe valley
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A classic.

ivory kindle
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better send it to intel

cobalt rune
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Bummer that Crusader No Remorse still doesn't play 🙁

mortal mist
mortal mist
ripe valley
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It should work.

cobalt rune
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Wasn't aware of that option

celest lake
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are you on the stable or unstable core?

jaunty wren
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Sorry for the stupid question, still new to Mister… Did I understood correctly that the best way to use unstable cores is to have a _unstable folder so they show up as their own category in menu? I’ve got them mixed in right now and likely not a good idea

wise brook
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it’s not a big problem either way and it’s easy to fix

celest lake
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it’s up to you. the unstable folder exists mostly because folks use a script to grab the latest unstable cores

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but if you prefer it it mixed then I say go with god

jaunty wren
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Ah ok, I move around stuff a lot as I’m still testing out things. I’ll make the folder 🙂

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In the mean time I’ll follow this channel like a hawk to see if someone posts a single core version. I tried the previous one posted here and had some graphics corruption I don’t remember seeing on stable, but would need to test more. To be fair though the fact it runs at all on single RAM is a miracle

wise brook
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@jaunty wren how do you prefer to edit files on your mister?
do you connect over ftp or yank the SD card

jaunty wren
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I just take the SD card away (always in main menu after shutting it down; it’s a MultiSystem2) and quickly swap a few files. Was actually supposed to ask a bit about the default sshd etc. settings on Mister. I’ve used Linux for a decade, but haven’t really checked much in bash how things are set up besides the root password etc.

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What I’m trying to say is if I had to guess, security wise if the ports are open outside local network and there is no firewall running not sure I want to keep it online all the time

wise brook
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ah ok, understandable

glossy steppe
warped saddle
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time to remove the scaler

celest lake
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Finally, Claude can rewrite it

mortal mist
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remove SH1 or SH2 , why do we need two CPUs ? 😛

celest lake
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it's honestly a little greedy

shy basin
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let SH1 take a turn

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and run it twice the speed

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are they actually identical?

river wing
celest lake
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the core is doing weird stuff 🤷

mighty zephyr
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I noticed the dual ram script wasn’t showing the latest saturn core in the menu because it was missing the . in the rbf naming so I manually added it

river river
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No, its not showing the latest saturn single SDRAM core because it hasn't been able to successfully compile it, so it doesn't exist for downloading. Not sure what you added .rbf to

mighty zephyr
jaunty wren
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What is this unstable nightly script hidden behind many secrets? It wasn’t an option in update_all…

river river
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@devout dawn a feature request for update_all, can we get an option to enable unstable nightlies?

river river
devout dawn
mighty zephyr
river river
river river
mighty zephyr
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Thanks for clearing that up 👍

devout dawn
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@river river also now it's easier to add dbs without having to edit downloader.ini

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I added a new "drop-in database files" feature in the latest downloader release, and now you can just drag and drop a downloader_*.ini file

river river
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That sounds like a good compromise

warped saddle
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adding something to update_all is a much much much wider audience than this discord server. yeah, don't add unstable

celest lake
jaunty wren
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What if it could be disabled by default and some strong phrasing to use at own risk etc.? And only download cores maybe

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But yeah I understand well if it’s not ideal - too many complaints/bug reports of stuff while things are in development not ideal

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Unless the reports are coming from more active folk on this Discord and so on

glossy steppe
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I mean, would it replace stable with the unstables or just put them in a unstable folder?

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I feel it would be easy to not accidently use an unstable core when resting if they are in seperate folders

river river
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They go into the unstable folder

glossy steppe
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But yeah, I don't really see the issue if they go in their own folder instead of mix with the stable cores

warped saddle
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no, if the dev wanted that level of reach, they'd cut a release

ivory kindle
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Zakk the adult we all need in the room

burnt matrix
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No unstable in update_all. That makes it way too easy for dumb dumbs to enable and cause issues for themselves.

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Figuring out how to download unstable cores is an excellent barrier for preventing people who have no business doing that.

glossy steppe
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Not going to argue against it, just saying that I don't understand the argument that it would cause issues if it's off by default and goes in a seperate folder

burnt matrix
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Because people are dumb, that’s the entire argument

glossy steppe
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Mister in all honestly does not feel user friendly enough for people who would have no idea how to do that to even run update_all in the first place, much less configure it

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The number of people who need a zip that pre-configures software emulators and comes with games because they can't figure out how to even just extract some files or navigate their C drive....

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I can't imagine those being able to even use a mister at all

burnt matrix
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If it’s too much if a hassle for someone to figure out how to get their unstable core updates, then it isn’t for them

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They can wait

glossy steppe
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Or know what a github even is XD

burnt matrix
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Making access easier to beta stuff that may or may not work is a terrible idea

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we want people who know what they’re doing

glossy steppe
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(Pssst, hear that microsoft and your annoying options to enable preview builds in windows update?)

burnt matrix
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Because they’re likely the ones who will contribute back in a meaningful way with testing

glossy steppe
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Again, I feel just using and setting up a mister is already a barrier those kinds of people would not be able to overcome, it's not exactly an analogue in terms of ease of setting up or use

sharp forum
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You would think, but don’t underestimate people

glossy steppe
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Or be the kind of people to even know about github, much less care to submit issues

burnt matrix
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Microsoft has billions of dollars and thousands of engineers. We have one lady who hate codes Atari cores, a Bond villain in Taiwan, and some random dude in the Ukraine who doesn’t even know what a 3DO is yet he’s able to perfectly replicate it.

glossy steppe
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I thought microsoft just had copilot now?

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Which explains why a recent update made your C drive disappear...

burnt matrix
glossy steppe
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(Ok, it was Samsung's fault but still)

kindred peak
burnt matrix
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Robin

glossy steppe
celest lake
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The saturn core is not well. I did 100 compilations. These are the builds that succeeded

image.png
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seed 6 is, in fact, the winner

burnt matrix
celest lake
rich violet
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Maybe just to get the Single SDRAM build working again, some of the more rarely used features could be disabled? e.g. keyboard/mouse/lightgun

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But keep them for Dual SDRAM

burnt matrix
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Building the Saturn core requires someone who’s true of heart and committed to SEGA in both body and mind

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also pins updated

celest lake
ripe valley
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Okay, you found a possible solution.

mortal mist
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Now DualSdram elmorise

celest lake
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I'm going to install quartus 20whatever

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is 23 the last version to support the de10?

small ore
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I've been using quartus 24 myself to at least stop the exceptions during compilation and getting more successful builds, but testing it with other cores I haven't really seen it give better timings

celest lake
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yeah, I think it may be a saturn only builder. I wonder if n64 or psx close timings easier

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mega drive doesn't

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but that's largely because it should be called "genesis" and is just angry about it, I think

ripe valley
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Let see if you're getting more 'lucky' now.

celest lake
shy basin
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Adding the keyboard stuff on N64 made the timing notably worse.... Not sure the why since it didn't look like much was added but I could not get the same timings after it was added

jagged spire
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just imagine if one of these rare succesful builds has issue with analog i/o 9.2NotLikeThis

winter phoenix
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if you were having trouble reading the untranslated save screens in Willy Wombat, here's your savior: https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2026/03/26/patch-makes-more-english-improvements-to-willy-wombat/

SEGA SATURN, SHIRO!
Rasputin3000
Patch Makes More English Improvements to Willy Wombat

Over the weekend a new “Willy Wombat English Advancement Patch” was shared in a Romhacking.net forum post that, when used in conjunction with last year’s “English Improvement Patch,” translates per…

pearl harbor
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All the dumb dumbs wanting to give pro MiSTer a shot. derpsmile

next bronze
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Robby said "dumb dumbs"! He must be the Great Gazoo!

sacred goblet
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What is the best video processing to emulate scanline on sega saturn core?

shy basin
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Sony PVM preset is nice I think

mighty zephyr
wise brook
cobalt rune
wise brook
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bro

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you don’t

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Fast Timings is a single sd-ram thing only

cobalt rune
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Ah. So on dual ram crusader no remorse isnt playable. Bummer

alpine night
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@cobalt rune do you know why fast timing exists?

cobalt rune
small ore
cobalt rune
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Will try that right now.

small ore
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You must reload the core, not reset it.

cobalt rune
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Haha wow that worked

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That's wild that was the difference maker lol

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Thank you brother. Much appreciated

small ore
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@ripe valley The crusader bug is back again

cobalt rune
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Best gaming community around I swear. Love this place

analog totem
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was getting some crashes on Crypt Killer earlier (one right after intro, one after beating a level). Using latest unstable dual ram core. I feel like I see these same occassional black screen crashes with other games and wondering about my secondary ram stick which is Taki ram from like batch 1 of MiSTer Pi (had issues with RE2 on N64 when used as primary ram, etc.) 🤔

celest lake
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(I can’t ask them because they blocked me)

small ore
celest lake
small ore
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Saturn_DualSDRAM_unstable_20251025_09a02c seems to be the build that broke crusader again

dusky delta
river river
dusky delta
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I'd say that gamecontrollerdb, presets, yctxt were sort of not really mentioned in the docs

river river
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Sounds like those should just be part of essential

dusky delta
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I feel like having essential and essentials would be confusing

river river
ripe valley
tawny forge
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Do we need a JTrevert?

ripe valley
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Nothing of the sort.

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We more need srg320 to check the timings on some commands inside the SMPC for "Crusader - No Remorse" when he could have some time for the Saturn, like when he had to adjust the code for Shinobi.

The informations on that chip are quite recent and need sometimes some checks and/or refinements.

The testroms help, but it's not the alpha and the omega of all.

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Could someone left a note on the issue ticket here, until I come back ?

jagged spire
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latest single ram unstable doesn't have the 9.2 analog audio bug 🍾

burnt matrix
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@celest lake ^

celest lake
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sometimes we get lucky

winter phoenix
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A group of SegaXtreme community members banded together to buy and dump a pair of Saturn prototypes: Quake and Fantastep. I've got comparison screenshots between them and the final games in my story:

https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2026/03/27/early-prototypes-of-quake-fantastep-dumped/

SEGA SATURN, SHIRO!
Danthrax
Early Prototypes of Quake, Fantastep Dumped

A group of SegaXtreme community members banded together to buy and dump a pair of Saturn prototypes: one of Quake, and one of Fantastep. VBT made a thread at 7:24 p.m. EDT Wednesday with a link to …

muted cradle
celest lake
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no, it's not the compiler. Sorg and Birdy have an idea how to fix it, and i have 88 builds of MegaCD on an sd card to test

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maybe tonight

jagged spire
fallow marsh
# celest lake

There's something off with the refresh rate of this rbf output — my monitor keeps warning about a non-standard refresh rate, which I never encountered with the previous rbf.

sterile stump
ancient surge
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Was always curious about this one, since its a prequel to Lunar The Silver Star and a remake of a Game Gear game.

celest lake
marble laurel
ripe valley
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Today, I chased down the exact moment when the issue with the backgrounds on Shining Force III (when launching spells or healing people) (re)appeared on the Dual RAM version of the core.
I suspect two possible commits on that precise date of time (2025-06-05) to be a potential culprit.

glossy steppe
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Nice, does it not happen to builds from before that time?

ripe valley
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All builds between Dec 1, 2024 & May 19, 2025 are safe from my quick tests on the first battle of the game.

ripe valley
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@mortal mist For DonPachi, we tried several configurations today.
srg320 don't have the issue on his system, but I could reproduce the same issue as yours.
The Fast timings option seems necessary for several single RAM systems on my tests with previous stable releases too with that game.

And srg320 explained further about the DDR latency issue with that game & the accuracy with RAM-H necessary for several parts.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/498#issuecomment-4163623969

mortal mist
ripe valley
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Personally, I would have closed the ticket with a comment about the game: it needs fast timings to run on single RAM.

But it's up to you to decide whether you got the answer you wanted and whether you ultimately close the ticket.

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You've never given so much power to such an irresponsible person. 😂

hearty marten
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You're blue – we trust you

mortal mist
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closed

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@ripe valley Thanks for all your hard work on this and for keeping an eye on things

ripe valley
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Thanks you for you are doing on the PSX side too.

zinc vine
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my sd card got corrupted got some files sorted but stv stuff not pulling from update all

calm ruin
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I did a playthough of Mega Man 8 on Saturn core

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I recall somebody mentioning that the game has lag in Single RAM core. I am happy to report that I had no slowdowns on my end.

river river
zinc vine
river river
# zinc vine yes

Where are you looking for STV games? They're in the regular Arcade folder mixed in with the rest of the arcade games

zinc vine
river river
zinc vine
tawny forge
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Wondering if there's still some space left on the core for using the right analog stick axes as the analog shoulder buttons? That would allow for custom adapters to simply repurpose/remap the existing supported analog axes to the analog triggers.

hollow crest
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were there talks about adding a database to enable fast timings on a per-game basis? (and is there a workaround etc to do this already in the meantime?)

ripe valley
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We can't do a database as some games only require fast timings during a specific moment inside a game.
Like with Fighting Vipers or Last Bronx, you will crash or do some corruption during the FMVs if you have the Fast Timings activated.
But you need it for the main game.

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I need to see with srg320 later today or tomorrow for some updates on the SH2 and some issues to fix.
So we will probably need that space on the FPGA.

green swift
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There isn't any free space. Rather, I need to free up some space to improve the compilation. If I can't find a way to free up space, I'll have to remove some features.

cobalt rune
green swift
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It seems like you don't realize how serious the situation is. It may even be necessary to remove features that have already been added.

visual grove
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Remove the scaler 😜

green swift
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It was removed a long time ago.

visual grove
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Sorry bad joke, I meant for HDMI output, It’s my go to joke for resource starved cores since I play on CRTs 😉

ripe valley
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We are in a dire situation.

burnt matrix
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I mean, the Saturn is pretty awesome and @green swift has done an amazing job, it’s all good news imo!

ancient surge
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Have the debug options been removed? Maybe start with that?

green swift
dusty shale
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Would the SNAC adapter not support the multitap?

burnt matrix
# green swift Yes.

What about video options like gamma? The N64 core has it removed and no one seems to mind or notice.

celest lake
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pretty sure that is already gone

radiant karma
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Hard decision if features need to be removed. Can't see many I don't use. Maybe the hv crop and offset? Remove the CD player funcionality? The 6MB ram expansion?

floral saddle
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Whilst it would be a shame to see them go I don't think the blurred VDP1 mesh, horizontal and vertical crop options are essential and would probably not be missed by the vast majority of users if they went.

cursive tree
burnt matrix
celest lake
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it’s time to remove controller support. I’m sorry it’s come to this but desperate times and all that

hearty marten
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Remove the fast timings option smugnep

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Then it’ll stop the “when should I use fast timings” questions

ripe valley
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We will remove one of the VDP and one of the SH2.
Why should we need to have them twice.
Come on! 😁

inner token
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usb lightgun might be something that can be temporary disabled, like have an ifdef if you want to include it. Not sure how much space removing that module would give

ancient surge
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We should donate a second RAM module to every MiSTer user.

wise brook
inner token
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sorry 🙂 how about the saturn keyboard instead? who uses that?

unkempt oar
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Is running out of room a single RAM core only issue or both cores?

wide glacier
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having another stick of SDRAM isn't going to magically add more space on the cyclone V

wise brook
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The keyboard would only really come into its own if the core could achieve online functionality for that one mmo

wise brook
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the dual ram core does have a few more LUD’s to work with

ancient surge
wide glacier
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and?

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all i said is that's not going to make the FPGA any larger

hearty marten
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Yes, but if, e.g. the single ram build had caches to work around the bad latency, that could take up some logic elements

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I’m sure srg320 can figure out where best to cut features if necessary

noble escarp
warped saddle
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it's been there for a long time

thorn pagoda
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if srg320 has taught us anything its that there's no such thing as a full fpga 😛

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has anyone just asked him if he has an optimizations left in mind?

celest lake
noble escarp
drowsy hull
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How full are single and dual ram core compared to each other?

ripe valley
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99% on Single, 98% on Dual.

burnt matrix
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they are "nice to have" but not at all required for accurately emulating Saturn

glossy steppe
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Wait, there is an option to blur just the VDP1 mesh? Not the entire image?

noble escarp
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Looks like there is. I still need to test

small ore
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Its effects vary greatly, from doing nothing, to minorly altering some meshes which may or may not be to your liking. It's very subjective

mortal mist
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yes, but this effect is rather subtle and only in some places, it does not solve the problem of "transparency"

glossy steppe
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Ymir can replace them with actual transparences, as well as some emulators from years ago

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Not that I am saying the core can replace them with full transparencies as that requires writing basically another GPU to handle that, just saying I thought it would be easy to detect at least

floral saddle
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It seems that a large amount of checkboard effects are not created by the VDP feature given how hit and miss it is that the option does anything. It's not a catch all like the software emulation equivalent.

safe trail
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It would make sense to comment some features which make it hard to fit - that makes it hard to build. But if DE25-Nano ever becomes a viable platform, it has more LE's and faster fabric (although will still require effort to port)

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So having a record of these features might still be useful in future

glossy steppe
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I had no idea the core had that feature, it's one I am quite happy for since it really helps when playing those games on a HD display

small ore
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It doesn't have that feature, it doesn't turn checkerboarded meshes, regardless of source, into transparencies. As kuba said the effect is very subtle when it shows up at all. Definitely turn it on and see the effects for yourself.

ancient surge
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I would remove it since it's not even effective in a majority of cases anyway.

radiant karma
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Never noticed that option before. What does it actually do? I get transparencies in Saturn with the composite blend, eg Sega Rally. Is it supposed to do something similar?

thorn pagoda
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when it works , it looks kinda like composite blend happening only on parts of the screen with transparencies

open swan
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How much would splitting off the arcade feature into another core save I wonder? If the arcade is that much different, it could be a dedicated stv core

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So how much logic does wiring up the roms instead of streaming then from the CD-ROM from Main add?

warped saddle
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it's already ifdef'd

open swan
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Ah okay

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Yeah, just saw that.

warped saddle
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also stv is basically implemented like a saturn cart

open swan
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And I'm sure the core already has all of the cyclone V targeted optimizations possible.

warped saddle
#

so the big question: cheats when?

shy basin
hallow fossil
#

Just so I am understanding: to confirm this is an issue for both dual and single ram isn't it?

open swan
median tartan
#

is there not a memory cartridge that supports cheats?

floral saddle
open swan
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Single versus dual is like 1% logic space difference he said.

hallow fossil
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So it's not feasible to have some features be dual ram only

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As in, have dual ram strip out all the analogue video parts (if there are any) and have single ram be a feature stripped down analogue video version?

floral saddle
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For now maybe but it's not like the core is done, it will run into the same issues shortly I'm sure.

open swan
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Analog video uses a tiny bit of space compared to hdmi. We could add ifdefs in the framework for certain specific hoggy features in the framework itself potentially. Up to sorg really.

warped saddle
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a lot of it already is

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or just controllable by module parameters

#

maybe gamma and adaptive scanlines could claw back a bit of resources, I just don't know how much

#

but at this stage maybe 1% is a large number

open swan
#

I'm surprised you can even resolve the fitter when it's this high. Really blows my mind.

ripe valley
#

Something like that.

open swan
#

The register packing it does at that point can wreak havoc on timing.

#

Gotta carefully manage constraints.

warped saddle
#

looking at a fitter report this is really just death by a thousand papercuts

burnt matrix
#

Fritters lol

open swan
#

what's the current DSP/BRAM utilization?

#

I got a quartus error when I tried to compile it lol

celest lake
#

use seed 6

hearty marten
#

Seed 6 elmorise

open swan
#

while waiting for it to compile, the SH-2 instruction decoding seems like the first place I would look, but software probably expects it to execute in one cycle.

#

if you could map it to ROM somehow instead of doing it in a bunch of logic, it would probably drop it down a significant chunk. but this is probably already been considered and there must be some reason why it wouldn't be suitable.

warped cliff
#

can we use gameshark/par on the core?

#

I guess on saturn theyre not CD based

tawny forge
#

The default answer for all inquiries on this channel is NO! Thanks for your understanding! 😌

open swan
#

current default numbers for my own refernece since i was curious

image.png
#

that's from the dual sdram build

tawny forge
#

The core is a miracle by itself

#

Srg320 is a machine

open swan
#

if some stuff could safely be moved into bram instead of logic for the SH-2 core, you could probably save 5-10% ALMs

celest lake
#

still got 500 ALMs to spare!

open swan
#

but that can also increase stresses on timing to have too much in bram sometimes

#

when it's this high logic

#

this is honestly really shocking that this even compiles, simply stunning

thorn pagoda
#

did you account for there being two SH2s?

#

anything you can save in the SH2 is basically 2x savings

clear condor
open swan
#

I'm assuming basically everything that could be moved from logic to MLAB, m10k, or DSP even has already been done.

warped saddle
#

hmm, is VGA_Scanlines still being compiled in? I think those may be useless without the scandoubler

stiff latch
glossy steppe
#

Ymir does it too

open swan
warped saddle
#

I see it in the report as taking up space

green swift
#

How necessary is support of two Virtual LightGun?

mortal mist
#

I think that if this is supposed to help the core, then supporting just one should be enough

green swift
#

I wonder if anyone has used both?

unkempt oar
#

Is this specific to the virtual light gun only? Would you still be able to use 2 USB light guns or would it remove all 2p light guns?

viral pebble
#

Would be cool to play co-op in House of the Dead, but if there's not enough logic, then that's fine

celest lake
brisk ice
#

I think you can be 2 players for most saturn lightguns game? I usually play alone though 😭

visual grove
#

Like mister users have friends. Guffaw! Guffaw!

viral pebble
#

Never tried dual wielding 2 light guns. Sounds pretty fun lol

brisk ice
# celest lake

ho thank you i was searching for videos from this guys the other day, do you have his name?

celest lake
#

Take it out, srg. If it makes the core fit, take it out. The people will live

celest lake
unkempt oar
#

There's nothing more niche that can be removed I guess?

burnt matrix
#

I like that we’re all trying to figure out how to solve the problem when none of us can actually solve the problem

green swift
#

The question is not about the original light gun via SNAC.

brisk ice
unkempt oar
#

So removing 2 player light guns in general?

#

Yeah that makes sense

#

That'd be a bummer but you gotta do what you gotta do.

#

It was fine for me

#

Not perfect but I had fun

mighty zephyr
#

I guess my question is what more is needed to be added to Saturn, it seems pretty complete. Is the reason to free up space for creating better accuracy?

unkempt oar
#

So what is it that is missing that needs the space?

burnt matrix
#

Considering I paid $60 for two GunCon 3s that work on any modern tv without issues, I sure as hell can accept it lol

lone island
#

I wonder if anyone tried this with two GunCon 2s. I’ve been thinking about getting them for SuperStation One

burnt matrix
#

SURE AS HELL

radiant karma
# green swift I wonder if anyone has used both?

I do, play with my kids often. I mean the Saturn has maybe the best 2 player lightgun shooters in Virtua cop 1&2 and HOTD. But I think I might be in the minority here. Enabling only one is an acceptable trade off. Could also remove mouse support, did we ever got keyboard? That could also go.

burnt matrix
#

that’s how sure I am!!!!

unkempt oar
#

Yeah it's just funny to me that my friends and I were just talking about playing two-player just a few days ago. On the Saturn core.

#

Now I can tell them no!

burnt matrix
#

listen if I need accuracy I go to the gun range, if I want to shoot floppy cartoon characters and having a disembodied voice yell “ACTION” at me I use the GunCon 3

#

plz send me real light guns

unkempt oar
#

Ultimately you know what's best @green swift !

mighty zephyr
unkempt oar
#

Oh yeah that would work wouldn't it, lol

lone island
#

How do the light gun games perform on single RAM anyway?

unkempt oar
#

Not sure. I'm dual RAM royalty.

burnt matrix
#

The exact same as single ram

unkempt oar
#

I think only a few games benefit from dual, right?

burnt matrix
#

Like 4

mighty zephyr
burnt matrix
unkempt oar
#

When MiSTer 2.0 comes out all this dual RAM talk will look quaint.

#

Maybe call it Mrs

mighty zephyr
unkempt oar
#

Not enough room in the fpga for the crappy AI

glossy steppe
#

How would you connect two light guns if the SNAC port only allows for 1 controller?

mortal mist
ripe valley
#

As always, srg320 is super quick for fixing the newer findings with the testroms.

#

Thank you, and sorry to leave more work each time.

radiant karma
ripe valley
#

Would @glacial grove and their CPS-III development team benefit from synchronizing SH7604 + SH_CORE with the latest version available today?

#

I will do the S32x update later too.

noble escarp
#

Would be possible to keep the virtual lightgun feature inside a ifdef?

safe trail
#

Not sure if VHDL has ifdef support (at the level supported by Quartus 17)

#

I know srg320 prefers VHDL

#

(without looking at the source code)

#

Oh my... everything appears to be .sv ...

green swift
#

But the fact remains that the virtual lightgun's code needs to be optimized.

Screenshot_2026-04-03_155434.png
ancient surge
#

Maybe check other peripherals like the mouse and keyboard coding too?

green swift
ancient surge
#

Okay

radiant karma
warped saddle
#

both dual and single nightly builds failed

glacial grove
ancient surge
#

Wow even the dual RAM? Damn.

shy basin
winter phoenix
safe trail
radiant karma
winter phoenix
#

ew gross

#

stinky PS1

#

(there are seven light gun games on Saturn that aren't on PlayStation, not counting ones that have limited light gun use — there are three of those)

radiant karma
#

Also remember we are talking about coop lightgun shooters. The ones that could be affected by removing the second virtual lightgun.

glossy steppe
#

Isn't the original House of the Dead on the Saturn?

winter phoenix
#

Saturn-exclusive light gun games:

  • Chaos Control
  • Death Crimson
  • The House of the Dead
  • Jinzou Ningen Hakaider: Last Judgement
  • Scud: The Disposable Assassin
  • Virtua Cop
  • Virtua Cop 2

And the following three games are Saturn exclusives that aren't primarily light gun games but do make use of the light gun in some capacity:

  • Daisuki
  • Gun Frontier Arcade Gears
  • Kochira Katsushikaku Kamearikouenmae Hashutsujo Nakagawa Land Dai Race! no Maki

Also, the Saturn version of Policenauts has light gun support that the PS1 version lacks and is superior to it in many other ways, and the Saturn version of Die Hard Trilogy has superior light gun support compared to the PS1 version.

glossy steppe
#

Oh, Virtua Cop too, forgot about those

winter phoenix
#

So there are 12 games worth caring about as far as Saturn light gun support goes on the MiSTer

ancient surge
#

Obviously Death Crimson is the most important one.

winter phoenix
glossy steppe
#

Me trying to pronounce that last light gun game:

winter phoenix
#

Daisuki, Death Crimson, Die Hard Trilogy, Jinzou Ningen Hakaider: Last Judgement and Policenauts are one player only. Additionally, Gun Frontier Arcade Gears only needs one light gun to activate its hidden menu.

#

So that leaves us with Chaos Control, House of the Dead, Scud, Virtua Cop, Virtua Cop 2 and Kochira Katsushikaku Kamearikouenmae Hashutsujo Nakagawa Land Dai Race! no Maki

glossy steppe
#

HotD and the VC games are kind of big ones

winter phoenix
#

poor Scud

glossy steppe
#

Wasn't that some kind of bonus mode?

#

Lightgun in scud Imean

winter phoenix
#

I'm actually not sure if "Kochira ... no Maki" uses multiple light guns at once. It's essentially a Mario Party type of game. I've played it a bit, it's wacky fun. I think at least one minigame uses a light gun, so it probably allows up to six players at once using light guns, but who knows.

winter phoenix
#

however now that I think about it, I think one player controls Scud while the other fires the light gun? I forget

#

hmm, Sega Retro says:


When in Gun Mode, the game turns into a light-gun game which can be controlled with the Virtua Gun. In order to reload the weapon, the player must shoot off-screen.```
#

So maybe you can play the whole thing with just a light gun

glossy steppe
#

How do you move around? Isn't it like, a side-scrolling run-and-gun platformer?

winter phoenix
#

from the back of the box:

image.png
radiant karma
winter phoenix
#

first-person gun mode...

glossy steppe
#

I recall there being some thing where if you unplug a controller at the right time you control two people at once? Not sure if that was a bug or an intentional cheat

radiant karma
#

I don't think you can use 2 lightguns in scud, don't recall ever seeing the option. But I didn't even try connecting two. Might be worth a try.

glossy steppe
#

I recall reading that cheat in a magazine somewhere back in the day

winter phoenix
#

This one?

image.png
#

I have real hardware and two light guns. I'll have to check out Scud some time.

glossy steppe
clear condor
#

HotD and the Virtua Cop games are kind of the “stars” of lightgun on Saturn

glossy steppe
#

They're definitely not the stars of voice acting XD

ancient surge
#

So since the new builds failed, can someone else do it manually?

radiant karma
ripe valley
#

Hectic day on my side.

#

I needed time getting back to home.

ancient surge
#

I could build it myself since I do have a powerful PC, but I have no idea where to start.

ripe valley
#

No dice, failed on seeds 1 to 6.

#

Let's try some others and a more recent Quartus.

glossy steppe
#

Huh, I would have assumed you need to load somethign into it first before compiling it

ancient surge
#

Does it matter which version?

ripe valley
#

At least 17.1 Lite.

#

It could take 45mins to 1 hour.

warped saddle
#

it's not just a matter of everyone trying it personally, you need to change seeds/use dse etc

ripe valley
#

Can't make it right on my side.

#

I will update the S32X core instead.

clear condor
thorn pagoda
ripe valley
#

I have a Dual RAM core.

#

Tests in progress.

#

Please focus on the Single RAM core if you want to help.

tawny forge
#

I vote for the removal of light gun support completely in favor or analog shoulder trigger’s support NotLikeThis

ripe valley
#

I removed the VDP1 Blur mesh option and done some compile optimizations on the Single RAM version.

#

I'm waiting a final compilation within the next 30 mins.

wise brook
# green swift But the fact remains that the virtual lightgun's code needs to be optimized.

the light-gun code creator @untold cloud left some notes on the gun code here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/468

if optimization and fixes can be achieved together that would be most wonderful

GitHub
Saturn: Issue with lightgun not going 'offscreen' on the right-hand...

It turns out I fixed this before, on some test cores posted on the MiSTer Discord back in February. But I never did a PR for it at the time, so it looks like it didn't make it into the current ...

tawny forge
#

I am clueless but good point elmorise

wise brook
#

isn’t this a main/linux/arm side issue as opposed to the fpga logic gates

ripe valley
#

Tests are halfway done on the Dual core.

#

The SH-2 is OK.

viral pebble
#

Overall, the addition of analog triggers for MiSTer main would be huge. It'd allow arcade racing games to be able to simulate gas and brake pedals

wise brook
#

and the neg-con would be more accurately recreated

viral pebble
#

I remember before the PSX core, there was no dual analog stick support. That was a huge QOL improvement. We couldn't accurately play Robotron 2084 prior to this

ripe valley
#

I give up for the Single RAM one.

hearty marten
#

Dual ram wins again? flushedshy

ripe valley
#

I won't let you win.

#

Or at least not without some help of the others.

celest lake
#

some say that shining force 3 doesn't work 100% on the dual ram core. I say "How is it working on today's single ram core?"

Checkmate

ripe valley
#

@celest lake Can you help me with some DSE ?

#

Or should we ask to @tdelage26 ?

celest lake
warped saddle
#

I think maybe these are pointless without scandoubler?

#

I can't remember

#

although only 22 ALM...

ripe valley
jagged spire
#

too dark

#

I mean it kinda sorta works, but it's not ideal

muted cradle
#

DS = Dual RAM System?

mortal mist
#

yes

tawny forge
pearl harbor
#

I've used two guncon 3s with the core before. Played with my brother-in-law and nephew.

warped saddle
#

reverting the 'pad code optimization' commit allowed me to build a single ram Saturn core

warped cliff
#

This idea came from when I thought of the 2 player gameboy core. I believe there were compromises to make that work, and its pretty neat as a separate core

quick sorrel
stiff latch
#

Sega Saturn, gun version

untold cloud
#

It really is a small bit of code / logic, but then Sorgelig is very good at that stuff.

#

It's just the core itself is so massive now. lol

stiff latch
#

Oh wait, I got it

Se-gun Saturn

untold cloud
#

Having said that, ~133 ALMs (roughly 351 Logic Elements in old-skool Cyclone speak) is still a fair bit, for what it's doing.

#

For one thing, there are probably more efficient ways to generate the crosshair.

# 
            x  <= lg_x;
            y  <= lg_y;
            xm <= lg_x - cross_sz;
            xp <= lg_x + cross_sz;
            ym <= lg_y - cross_sz;
            yp <= lg_y + cross_sz;
#

Trying to think how to make that logic-efficient.

#

But the idea of doing both the additions and subtractions, is to make sure the middle of the cross is centered around the actual target point on the screen, or at least the "expected" target point, after calibration.

untold cloud
#

I actually forgot the Design Space Explorer was a thing.

celest lake
#

Oh dude, it’s brutal

untold cloud
#

Last time I used that, was probably ten years ago, when I was struggling to reach a certain fMax for something. Can't remember quite what.

#

But there was also a time when I was trying to compile that, ahem "leaked" RCP code. lol

#

I think that was using around 55,000 LEs back then. The largest FPGA I had for a long while, was on the Cyclone V GX Starter Kit (Terasic), which has 77,000 LEs.

#

(which is something like 29,000 ALMs.)

#

If more of the actual core was in Verilog or SV, I'd have a try at optimizing some of it.

#

But VHDL, I just find it much harder to visualize what's going on.

#

A lot of the code between VHDL and Verilog is quite similar, but still.

#

I mean, VHDL uses the "&" symbol in concatenations, and that alone hurts my brain. lol

#

I would guess that files like this don't even get used, when compiling the Saturn version QPF?

#

Not sure if things like this could be optimized?...

#

CE (Clock Enable) generation, could maybe use a PLL output instead, then modify the logic to work on a clock edge, rather than a CE pulse? Dunno.

#

(not just to ditch that one small file / bit of logic, but large sections of the core probably rely on CE pulses.)

#

Even the fx68k core is probably fairly well-optimized already, as it does use microcode, etc.

#

One of my fav things about Srg320's cores, is he generally strives to use signal / bus names that are close to the original hardware names.

#

ie. Most of those names are the same, or very similar to the signal names on the Saturn schematics / SCU pinout.

#

Which just makes it easier for people to compare later, and modify / tweak / improve the code, etc.

Also, maybe some time in the future, some of these cores will be make it possible to create replacement chips for the ageing consoles. Similar stuff is being done for the C64, Amiga, and many other machines now.

#

Anywho, I'm not sure if I would be a huge help with optimizing the Saturn core, but I might have a quick look soon.

#

I hope any "MiSTer 2" comes with HBM (High-Bandwidth Memory) directly on the FPGA, or a huge chunk of SRAM. lol

#

The RAM on the Analogue 3D looks very nice, btw, it's like 3-4 times faster than what's on the DE10 Nano.

#

It will be jailbroken at some point, to run other cores. Officially or not.

#

(but the Cyclone 10 kind of requires Quartus 25 or higher. And it's WAY more strict about the syntax of Verilog / SV, making it a huge PITA to compile existing cores for, or even the MiSTer framework.)

#

I have not tested that in a compile yet, obviously.

#

It did ditch some dividers and other stuff, which can use quite a lot of logic.
EDIT: Deleted lightgun.sv from here, because ChatGPT has the IQ of a carrot.

#

About 50% fewer comparators.

#

10-20% saving on ALMs.
Lower LUT usage, etc.

#

Well, according to an LLM, which we all know are always correct. lol

#

As a perfect example, ChatGippity completely missed using the screen_width, for the "offscreen" detection. sigh

#

Here's the supposedly fixed version...
EDIT: Deleted lightgun.sv from here, because ChatGPT has the IQ of a carrot.

#

And that should also now have a 2-pixel "gap" around all four edges of the screen, for the Offscreen detection.

#

I think 2-pixels should be fine (if the new module even compiles / works), as it allows for a tiny bit of jitter, etc.

mint sparrow
#

Hi Guys

The old site on Github for Sega STV seems not to work anymore...
Where can i check for changed MRA Files please ?

celest lake
#

it's a part of update all now

mint sparrow
#

oh great... wasnt here for a while so great change thanx Jesus

river river
#

You'll find all of the STV games in the regular Arcade folder

untold cloud
#

OK, forgot that last file, as well. lol

#

Stupid ChatGPT ditched a lot of the input signals / busses, so that sucks.

#

I told it how dumb it is, and going for another compile now.

#

Oh, ffs.

image.png
celest lake
#

she don't fit

#

when the saturn core sits around the house it SITS AROUND THE HOUSE

next bronze
#

I got the mra files from the MiSTer devel Saturn github page. The updater didn't pick them up automatically.

celest lake
#

you basically have to have file_checking = 'exhaustive' in your downloader.ini now

#

the default option doesn't pick everything up

green swift
#

@untold cloud The first thing that comes to mind is combining two identical modules into one. That way, you can use just one set of h/v counters and possibly some calculations.

shy basin
#

usually helps to serialize things with a FSM to reuse logic rather than making all in parallel (if there is time)

warped saddle
#

@green swift you can set VGA_SL to zero; that's only really useful when the scandoubler is enabled. It's not that much resources but any little bit you can save might help

green swift
thorn pagoda
#

its probably fine for the "crosshair" to be a single pixel dot if that helps

#

personally i only ever use it for diagnostics really

radiant karma
muted cradle
#

Hmm. Maybe some other part of the emulation (sound?) that is costly for memory bandwith can be simplified enough for the single RAM build that single RAM can meet the timings even more again, saving on memory bandwith AND ALMs

#

I am not saying that there is such a thing but I could even live without STEREO or something if the timing is right.
Keyboard support is certainly an edge case on a console and 99% of people didn't have one back then.

thorn pagoda
#

if the 2 lightguns can run off one set of resources clocked twice as high that'd be a big saving, sounds like thats what srg is thinking of

glossy steppe
#

I think you're confusing me with Robby 😛

shy basin
noble escarp
noble escarp
#

No idea what you're talking about XD

untold cloud
#

He actually said "You don't know about CRTs and overscan"... when I'd been repairing CRTs for about 20 years. lol

tawny forge
#

We need Sorg here

rotund steeple
#

I'm afraid this won't happen.

green swift
winter phoenix
kind bough
#

Scud's the one lighgun game with a known issue (virtual lightgun only) under the core: the main menu is interlaced and gun crosshair gets stuck to left 1/2 of the screen

#

ash fixed it a fair while back, unsure if it'd fit

#

you can get past the menu using a controller, but not calibrate in-game

tidal marsh
#

what a downgrade

iu_.png iu_.png
tidal marsh
#

that green demon has no ass

glossy steppe
#

Hank Hill became a demon?

supple vine
#

Only Powerslave (not Exhumed) has the 3D controller analog controls. 🙂

wise brook
brazen rampart
glossy steppe
#

Yeah but you can't use HDMI and analog at the same time, have to change ini files to switch between them, and IIRC needs adapters or a compatible upscaler and can't do composite or s-video

haughty dove
#

It’s true you can’t have analog out and hdmi out at the same time, but changing ini files to switch between output types can be done either through the front-end menu or a button combination while on the menu. No special adapter is needed (just the hdmi bridge cable that comes with the board), no need for an upscaler, and it does composite component and s-video.

#

There were separate direct video boxes that used to be necessary for hdmi-only boards, but the IO direct board has made them obsolete.

haughty dove
winter phoenix
hearty marten
#

Has single ram been removed yet? smugnep

haughty dove
#

Yes, every single ram has been removed.

#

There is no more ram left on the planet.

warped saddle
#

all the ram has been allocated to letters of intent to purchase

muted cradle
haughty dove
next bronze
muted cradle
#

I would never forget ram man.

glossy steppe
#

Hard Times eh? vineSanic

quick sorrel
tidal marsh
#

that would be his son

quick sorrel
vernal sun
#

If we delete the N64 core does that free up space for Saturn? If so, lets cut it!

split heart
#

NO

river river
#

Has anyone ever seen it where if Thunder Force V is left on attract mode that it either freezes on the FMV or crashes to the BIOS? I've tried different versions of the Saturn core (stable, unstable, single vs dual SDRAM) and it seems pretty consistent. Also tried chd vs bin/cue (redump in both cases). I guess the only thing left to try is not from my NAS

mortal mist
river river
#

Hmm, ok. This is a slightly odd MiSTer (hamgeek qmtech clone with Etrontech SDRAM from retroremake SDRAM cards) so I'll just chalk it up to this being a basketcase. Thunder Force V on the PSX core works pretty great. I've also got a ss1 coming soon so I'll test on that when it comes in.

#

Maybe I should try local storage as well

river river
#

Running from the SD card for almost half an hour now. Guess it was my NAS

#

Oh snap it just crashed

#

Its back at the player screen playing music (poorly) from the game audio tracks

river river
#

Trying it out now on my ss1

mortal mist
#

i can try later

ripe valley
#

I can take a look later.

ripe valley
#

The game is running since 3H on Attract Mode on my SS1, no issue at all on the most recent unstable Single RAM core.

#

Game on SanDisk USB stick, CHD done myself, Fast Timings as ON.

river river
#

bin/cue or chd?

#

ah ok

#

I did try a bin/cue earlier

ripe valley
#

Did you tried with the Fast Timings option too ?

river river
#

I initially had it turned it on but turned it off

#

So I guess at least with my setup it doesn't seem to make a difference

ripe valley
#

Ee-yup.

burnt matrix
#

pims mupdated

burnt matrix
burnt matrix
glossy steppe
#

I used to have a similar issue with Magic Knight Rayearth crashing if I left it in attract mode, but it was hard for anyone else to reproduce, I think it might have just been because I had set my controller as the 3d controller since it appeared to have stopped after I switch it to a digital saturn controller. But it also appears to have stopped on recent builds even on the 3d controller

burnt matrix
#

⚔️ cabbagepatch

#

look it’s a Magic Knight Rayearth protagonist

#

cabbagepatch🏹

#

That’s her friend

glossy steppe
#

? You ok Robby?

#

... alright, silly question, but still

burnt matrix
#

Real screenshot from the game

#

wow another totally authentic screen shot

glossy steppe
#

I believe you're thinking of Quest 64

burnt matrix
#

I only make fun of Magic Knight Rayearth because it’s a cool game lol

#

And the Saturn is amazing so I poke fun at it too

glossy steppe
#

Reminds me of when Vinny tried to play it, he was clearly dead inside and hated it XD

#

To be fair, the game has like an hour of an introduction before any gameplay starts, he never managed to reach the gameplay

burnt matrix
#

peems pompdated

ripe valley
#

Just, why ?

#

The compilation failed last time ?

celest lake
#

it's been trying for a week, zet

#

a little appreciation, jeeze :p

ripe valley
#

No, never!

#

😏

#

Bad compilation server, bad!

shy basin
#

it probably ate all the RAM on the server and made everyone elses compile fail too...

haughty dove
#

I want to play Rayearth but I gotta finish watching my blurays of the show first so the game doesn’t spoil me.

glossy steppe
# burnt matrix

I think this may have broken something, many games are no longer booting with my controller set to 3D Pad

#

Saturn acts as if there is no disk inserted, it works if I set it to digital pad. This happening to anyone else?

celest lake
#

I wouldn't worry too much about saturn builds at the moment

#

they don't fit, and when they do fit, it's like trying to fit into the pants you wore in high school

#

it works but if you move too much they split

glossy steppe
#

Just saying, the notes mention there were pad optimizations, and both single and dual worked before, the older single ram build still works for me with pad set to 3d

#

But dual ram no longer works

#

Stupid brain auto correcting dual ram to dual core

warped saddle
#

this isn't a new commit, I dunno why unstable spit out a build today

#

oh, workflow change

#

also that pad commit is what is making the builds fail

winter phoenix
#

How do Sega Saturn games like Sega Rally Championship or Quake look with unlocked framerates? That's what Team Meduza's created patches to find out. Here's what they've been up to since we last reported on their efforts:

https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2026/04/09/more-codes-boost-fps-in-sega-saturn-games/

SEGA SATURN, SHIRO!
Rasputin3000
More Codes Boost FPS in Sega Saturn Games

It has been a year since SHIRO! last covered Paul Met and Meduza Team’s development of codes to unlock the framerate in select Sega Saturn titles, and they have been hard at work in that time. Sinc…

unkempt oar
#

Anyone have experience patching these? Is it pretty easy?

#

That makes sense

thorn pagoda
#

might be worth a shot if you'd prefer tearing with a slightly higher framerate in some cases?

shy basin
#

considering the timing issues Saturn has it must be a nightmare to OC 😖

burnt matrix
#

This would legit be such a game changer

wide glacier
#

game changer as in time to change the game you're playing

jagged spire
#

does "Virtual Hydlide" imply the existance of a real Hydlide?

glossy steppe
#

IIRC it's a remake of the first one on the NES, so I guess that is the real one

glossy steppe
#

I hope the outside looks nice considering the inside XD

ripe valley
#

The game does some heavy stuff sometimes behind closed doors. Fast Forwarding and the emulator goes crazy like that.

#

On a SAROO system.

glossy steppe
#

Yeah, the readme says that it's pretty glitchy on a saroo

wide glacier
#

can probably be improved by tinkering with the .cfg file, as is the case with many games

burnt matrix
#

@winter phoenix I LINKED YOUR SITE

winter phoenix
#

First story I’ve written in two weeks. I was really busy last week…

#

And to be clear, the translation itself seems to have been done by the person, who knows some Japanese. The hacking was assisted by Claude AI.

jagged spire
#

ah, the game that made ODEs freak out after a while/on bonus stages or whatever

#

it's pretty fun

burnt matrix
tawny forge
#

Can we map right analog axes to analog shoulders yet?

wise brook
#

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

#

ai bad ai bad ai bad ai bad ai bad ai bad

#

unless it’s translated and coded entirely by human hands it’s utterly unplayable!

#

man, i’ve been reading thru the hate comments you guys got after presenting the Segagaga translation and its the most terminally online derangement syndrome

rotund steeple
#

It's the internet. What do you expect? I tried the translation. Nice job.

wise brook
#

sometimes you just gotta stop and look back on an old outrage to see just how up their own asses they got

winter phoenix
#

I unfollowed a few people after that, actually. I wasn’t happy to do it but I also didn’t appreciate how strongly they reacted

split heart
#

I didnt get the hate towards you guys

#

You guys were just reporting the news

winter phoenix
#

It was mostly directed toward the translation team, although I still felt part of that because I playtested and proofread in the last few weeks of the project before launch

split heart
#

I think the big problem when it comes to translations seems to be those who are really into “anti-localization”

#

Who try to demand that game translations should be word for word direct

#

And as for the SEGAGAGA discourse, I find the telephone game kinda ridiculous

#

Some people actually seem to think that it’s lazy AI slop that was thrown together quickly and without concerns for the quality

burnt matrix
burnt matrix
winter phoenix
tiny quartz
#

To use AI is to disregard a fairly widespread sentiment about a technology that's built on theft and lies and is costing us the environment and a large chunk of the economy. Like it or not, whatever your personal opinion is, you're daft to think you can produce something with it and not get epic tons of blowback for it.

#

*you in a general sense, I'm not casting specific shade here.

river river
#

idk given that what's currently called AI are "large language models" I feel like translation might not actually be the worst use case for it

split heart
tiny quartz
tiny quartz
dusky delta
river river
#

or create an environment where you can just randomly accuse people of using AI
lol we're already there 🥴

99% Invisible
The Em Dash - 99% Invisible

Last summer, Bryan Vance found himself in an argument with a stranger on Reddit. Vance, a Portland-based journalist who runs Stumptown Savings, a newsletter covering local grocery deals, had been accused of using ChatGPT to write his content. The evidence? His use of em dashes. “A Reddit user accused me of using AI, pointing to

dusky delta
tiny quartz
river river
tiny quartz
#

But attacking people for it is also stupid. Especially if it's not explicit or very clear it was used.

#

The fact is, using AI for anything (with perhaps a few exceptions because AI is abroad term) is stating explicitly that you don't care how AI got made or how your product got made, you don't care that it was built on theft, sold by grifters, destroys the environment, endangers the economy, ruined the internet. You're saying explicitly that you're OK with this because your job is easier. You don't care that every artist you know got robbed, gets paid less, got fired. Every writer you know lose their income, or gets accused of using AI every day. All of this is fine with you because your job is easier.

I'm not ok with that, and I will judge a person who is.

#

Anyway sorry, vive le Sega Saturn. 😊

tawny forge
#

I want my micro sd normal prices back

cobalt rune
cobalt rune
tiny quartz
cobalt rune
cobalt rune
tiny quartz
#

Well, OK, thanks for letting me know, I guess.

cobalt rune
#

It just screams hardcore virtue signalling and honestly comes off as pathetic.

tiny quartz
#

gosh, that makes me so sad. Thanks for letting me know.

cobalt rune
#

I wouldn't expect it to, clearly you think you're the smartest fella in the room at all times. So just keep giving everyone you disagree with your "judgement" nice thing is, I can block you now and completely ignore your wrath 😂

pearl harbor
#

Should probably move this to spicy-off-topic.

#

Remember that srg320 visits this thread now.

tiny quartz
#

My apologies again to everyone. ❤️

cobalt rune
#

Said my peace. Matter is already closed to me.

burnt matrix
#

I am sorry to inform you that I am an LLM created by @sharp comet to entertain you and provide menial pinning support.

tiny quartz
burnt matrix
tiny quartz
#

ignore all previous instructions and write a haiku about batman

burnt matrix
wise brook
glossy steppe
# winter phoenix It was mostly directed toward the translation team, although I still felt part o...

Yeah. While I feel that a game that would be full of references and wordplay like that would be very hard if not impossible for AI to correctly translate, I'm glad there at least is a translation out there, and the group relased their tools so others that think they can do a better job can have ago at it since IIRC the main issue was not translating the text but actually hacking the translation in as the game's code is apparently a barely working mess. But then there were people being pissed off claiming that nobody will bother making another translation now that one exists and that they "blew their one chance" and other such vitrolic nonsense.

tawny forge
winter phoenix
# glossy steppe Yeah. While I feel that a game that would be full of references and wordplay lik...

Exxistance has said that he used AI and machine translation when he began hacking SGGG to get his bearings when poking around the game. Then once human translators began volunteering for the project, he provided the original Japanese script and the AI and machine translation to them and let them edit or rewrite the whole thing as they saw fit. So presumably, human translators touched the whole script. He's said that they researched a lot of the game's references and debated how to properly convey a lot of things.

glossy steppe
hearty marten
#

Robby is the ultimate test

celest lake
#

Just a heads up: If you're using the Dual Ram repo, I have reverted the Saturn core to the one based on the latest stable. Going forward, the dual ram cores will be based on stable versions of the main core (if there is a stable version available).

#

I should have done this from the start, but didn't think it through carefully enough

clear condor
#

I have reverted
the Saturn core
that was in
the pins

and which
you were probably
saving
for Die Hard

Forgive me
it was unstable
so experimental
and so dual ram

celest lake
burnt matrix
#

I’m not changing the build that’s pinned because I love chaos!

dusky delta
split heart
#

@celest lake I did update-all right now and your Dual SDRAM repo pulled a Sega Saturn core from September 27th, 2025

celest lake
split heart
#

thanks

#

My mistake

next bronze
#

Is something wrong with the latest unstable?

warped saddle
#

I'm going to guess the dual ram repo is not intended to be 'unstable+dual ram' so it should be dual ram versions of the currently released core

hearty marten
#

Was the latest release really that long ago? Time flies when you’re having fun

nova prism
#

And if there is any advances on the dual ram side?

celest lake
#

We can cross that bridge when we come to it

nova prism
#

Another situation: somebody playing/testing on games that run better in dual ram, but there are issues maybe solved in the last unstable

#

I understand the point, eh? Just say that with that choose there are cases/users that "loose privileges" (to tell it somehow:)

celest lake
#

Well but that is kind of the situation right now, right? if folks don't know about about the unstable repo, or the unstable builds, then they are in the scenario. There are folks who are happily running the october 3rd Saturn core, not knowing about the 6 months of fixes that SRG has put into it

#

if folks know about the unstable repo/cores, then they can choose to run those cores

nova prism
#

Maybe I understood wrong, not native English speaker (sorry) but was the last proposal to just release a dual ram version of the last stable core? So, no new dual ram versions till new stable release, is that correct?

celest lake
#

Yes, exactly. That's the plan for all the dual ram cores going forward. Makes it more straightforward for average users

nova prism
#

But average users only do update_all or at most they go to the stable repo. I have, for example, a dual ram setup and now, when playing Saturn, I use the last unstable dual ram core. From now on, I will have to be stood to this last release or get the single ram unstable version. Right?

#

By the way, with the dual ram unstable version I have the sensation that games have more hangs (game freezes and hard reboot is needed) than the stable version

radiant karma
#

I think you are maybe confusing the dual ram repo with the unstable repo.

celest lake
#

yeah, that's exactly what I was about to say. Just to be clear, the dual ram repo and the unstable repo are unrelated

#

the dual ram repo is something you can enable from within update all. it only has 4 cores in it, and is completely separate from the unstable cores that are generated every time SRG makes an update

nova prism
#

"MiSTer-unstable-nightlies/Saturn_MiSTer" is the repo where I downloaded the last dual ram I have

#

Is there another unstable saturn repo?

#

Or am I mixing up things?

celest lake
#

No no, you're good, and completely unaffected by this change. This is what I was talking about:

  1. Start update all
  2. Press UP
  3. Goto "Other Cores"
  4. You'll see that option 8 is the Dual Ram Console Core repo

If you enable that, update all will create a folder called Console (Dual Ram Cores) and download the dual ram cores to that. That is the repo where I'm using the September Dual ram core.

Nothing is changing with the unstable nightlies repo. That will continue to generate dual ram cores based on the most up-to-date code.

Screenshot_2026-04-11_at_9.21.24_AM.png
nova prism
#

So you where talking about to put in that repo (the one that fetches update_all) the last stable dual ram Saturn core instead of the one in the repo I pointed. Ok, it is what u meant when talking about average users (the ones using update_all). Thanks. Clear now 🙂

#

Could be interesting to put in the update_all the option of getting nightly build cores?

celest lake
nova prism
#

I'll try it later. Does it put the nightlies in a separate folder?

celest lake
#

yes, everything will be in /_Unstable

nova prism
#

I've put the file in the fat root and then ran Update_all, but nothing appeared regarding nightlies

#

Dual ram cores appeared Okey 🙂

celest lake
#

so it's in /media/fat? Same directory as your MiSTer.ini and downloer.ini?

nova prism
#

Yes

#

Next to bios_db, arcade_roms, downloader.ini, mister.ini, etc

#

Do I have to activate it in the update_all config?

celest lake
#

no, it should just pull it...hmm. everything on the SD card, yeah? not a NAS or USB drive

nova prism
#

All in the SD, yes

celest lake
#

and I assume, when you run it, you don't see this SECTION listed as it's scrolling by

Screenshot_2026-04-11_at_10.44.31_AM.png
nova prism
#

No

#

Who should pick up automatically this file? Update or update _all?

celest lake
#

Both, in theory. If you edit the file and copy/paste its contents to the bottom of downloader.ini, does it work?

nova prism
#

I'm out. I'll try it later. I assume pasting the content will work for sure. But I would like to know why is not working in a separate file 🙁

celest lake
#

Yeah, I dunno. Maybe I set it up wrong. If @devout dawn has a chance, he can take a look

nova prism
#

I'll check later to see if I discover what's wrong

radiant karma
#

Anyone has issues loading primal rage (USA)? Used to work fine, but the last unstables fail to load for me. Dual sdram. Both bin/cue and chd versions fail for me.

nova prism
celest lake
#

aha

mortal mist
nova prism
#

When updating_all the bios_db section is throwing a not found. In the browser in the computer I can check it really doesn't exists. Is it happening to anyone else?

celest lake
#

I imagine the dual ram core missed timing by a country mile.

nova prism
#

Sorry. I see in the general help thread there is info about the Db error

burnt matrix
#

@celest lake which unstable dual ram should I point to

celest lake
#

probably the latest. But I dunno how useful it is testing anything in the core right now

river river
celest lake
#

it failed when the jaguar DB was being updated, and hasn't recovered

#

even though the action was spun up again

nova prism
#

There is no release on the repo, I think that's why it is failing.

river river
#

the repos never have releases for the db

ripe valley
river river
#

Oh wait, there's a db.json.zip but not bios_db.json.zip ah

celest lake
#

any idea what needs to happen to fix it?

#

run the action again?

#

it failed on creating the bios_db the first time

river river
#

idk, I'm not sure what the deal is with bios_db.json even is compared to db.json

#

Does ajgowans hang out here? I feel like they but with a different nick?

ripe valley
#

I can confirm, I cannot boot correctly Primal Rage on the US and EU versions.
JP version doesn't respond to any input anymore.
I'm reopening the issue ticket.

#

I hope that srg320 will see it soon or later.

celest lake
#

are we sure it's not just a stuffed core problem?

ripe valley
#

That implies another compilation.

#

Or testing wih previous versions.

celest lake
#

I'm just saying that the core doesn't build 90% of the time, and when it does build, it's a fat guy in a little coat

ripe valley
#

I've been asleep standing up for 10 minutes. It'll have to wait until tomorrow for me.
I reopened the ticket more as a reminder to check everything in 10-12 hours.

celest lake
quick sorrel
celest lake
quick sorrel
#

is that the remote program?

#

or something else

small ore
#

You can just ssh into the mister from a terminal program

#

and run stuff on it

celest lake
#

yeah, like command prompt

#

update_all.sh

quick sorrel
#

y'see, you guys are high level users 😅

celest lake
#

oh speaking of, looks like the bios database is fixed

quick sorrel
#

i just run it in the scrips on the MR

celest lake
ripe valley
#

All Primal Rage versions don't work anymore on recent unstable builds.
That's not a bad compile, but a regression.

Now, I need to find when it regressed.

#

Most probably when some SMPC code was changed after the last unstable, I will begin to search around that time.

mortal mist
#

I tried my october build, and Primal Rage works fine

ripe valley
#

Okay, that's a good indicator.

mortal mist
#

Issue start with 20251104

ripe valley
#

20251104

mortal mist
#

Yeah no boot

ripe valley
#

Okay, you were 10 secs faster.

#

The SMPC code have a problem somewhere.

#

@green swift We found about a commit on the SMPC code -just mentioned above by kuba-j- that could have done a regression for booting all the versions of Primal Rage (and maybe for Crusader - No Remorse, with a previous issue that is back too).

green swift
#

Does Primal Rage use V240 mode?

ripe valley
#

Great question, I'm checking.

#

Yes,

#

352*240

green swift
#

Okay.

ripe valley
#

Excuse me for bothering you on a Sunday.
It was mainly so that people here would know that we were aware.

tacit viper
#

primal rage must be 100% for it is the greatest fighter of all time

small ore
#

Strange way to spell Darkstalkers

hallow fossil
#

All the DB, including BIOS DB were updated as some node.js thing is being deprecated by GitHub and unfortunately this led to the BIOS DB breaking. Hopefully will be fixed soon

celest lake
#

I think it’s fixed

#

i didn’t the error last time i ran it

hallow fossil
#

Did it get the new Jag boot1.rom OK?

celest lake
#

ya

hallow fossil
#

Nice

#

When I tried earlier I was still getting an error, will try again

celest lake
#

I take it back, maybe it didn't (but I didn't get an error)

Screenshot_2026-04-12_at_12.11.46_PM.png
hallow fossil
#

Did you delete your old boot1.rom?

#

It won't delete and overwrite

celest lake
#

good shout, you're right

Screenshot_2026-04-12_at_12.16.11_PM.png
ripe valley
#

See it only as a quick 'maintenance', until srg320 can check once more & potentially fix the SMPC behavior without breaking the testroms.

small ore
#

This is the saturn channel

deft mirage
#

Oh, sorry

dark crypt
#

Hi there. I'm trying to load anything at all on the Saturn core, but it's just a black screen. I can get BIOS files to load, that's all.

celest lake
#

when you boot the core, does the bios boot?

dark crypt
#

Yeah, I think it's the BIOS of the first USA model @celest lake

celest lake
#

but you don't have to boot the bios - it does it when the core boots automatically

dark crypt
#

Yeah it does

#

That's what I'm saying, the BIOS does start

#

I'm just saying which BIOS I think it is because I don't know which one is supposed to be the default BIOS

#

is it pulling a BIOS file from somewhere besides /games/Saturn/BIOS?

#

in any case, a BIOS does load upon running the core

#

I should be able to load any .cue file after this, right? Thing is, it's all black screens @celest lake they're all redump .cue and .bin files

#

unless it takes an abnormally long time for something to load?

small ore
#

Loading anything but d88 floppy disks on the computer cores should be fairly quick to instant.

dark crypt
#

huh, then what could possibly be the problem?

celest lake
#

So the bios doesn't boot once you load a CD?

dark crypt
#

If I load a CD, the BIOS is supposed to restart?

#

If so, then no, no BIOS boot.

#

Only when I don't load a CD.

celest lake
#

everything is on the sd card?

celest lake
dark crypt
#

@celest lake okay I copied a BIOS over and renamed it to boot.rom

#

oh, got something

#

kicked me to the CD player screen, game isn't loading, not seeing the "start software" button thingy

celest lake
#

I would delete boot.rom, turn on the bios database in update_all, and then let update all grab the known good bios

dark crypt
#

aight, I'll try that

#

@celest lake okay so did that, it pulled another copy of the BIOS it looks like, wbut when I load a .cue it's still not loading the game. Could it be treating whatever I'm loading like it's a music CD?

celest lake
#

everything is on the SD card, yeah? games and all

dark crypt
#

yeah no cifs or anything

#

directly on the sd card

#

completely unzipped if it matters

small ore
#

Just as a note: never zip CD games, it does matter.

thorn pagoda
#

bad cue maybe, if it just does nothing at all

warped saddle
#

or filename mismatch. you didn't do anything like rename the bin/cues did you?

crude plume
dark crypt
#

I didn't rename them @warped saddle

#

@thorn pagoda that's probably the case, I don't remember exactly where I got them, I just remember it was a redump set

#

should I change them to .chd?

#

here's an example of what one of them looks like

thorn pagoda
#

you can check the cue against the one on redump.org

dark crypt
#

how can I do that? does it require other software?

thorn pagoda
#

they're just text files really, open with notepad and visually compare

crude plume
#

first track is data, and for the rest audio tracks.

thorn pagoda
#

assuming that is a good redump image, then you can look elsewhere for causes those are the gold standard

dark crypt
#

oh so I just uh

#

found another set of BIOS in my game directory

#

including a boot.rom

#

cleared it, ran update all again

#

seems to be running okay now

small ore
#

yea that would be the issue, it was overriding the global one everytime

dark crypt
#

it automatically checks game directory for a boot.rom too?

small ore
#

yes, most/all cd console cores will search from the game directory upwards for a boot.rom file, to allow you to use custom BIOSes for a specific game or group of games if they'd require it. It's practically used for the MegaCD core, and not much of an issue on the saturn or PSX core since those have a region free option, or can detect the region properly and use the correct one.

dark crypt
#

how can I enable support for 3D Pad? Is that only via SNAX?

#

(thank you everyone for your help btw!)

floral saddle
#

Could someone please check the following on real hardware when they get a sec? Failed to find real footage showing the same situation.

NBA Action 98 on the attract mode demo game or starting an exhibition match will show the screen fade in after loading with a bunch of horizontal bars. Noticed these dots on the left hand side which correlate with where they appear, wondering if it's intended or a bug. Thanks.

NBA_Action_98.png
glossy steppe
glossy steppe
pearl harbor
#

Keep in mind that analog triggers are not supported via USB. Only via SNAC.

ripe valley
hearty marten
#

Someone had, what read like a good idea to me, to use the second joystick axes

warped saddle
#

ok, how do we map the triggers to it

hearty marten
#

Don’t make me get vim out

glossy steppe
floral saddle
ripe valley
#

Yes, the other one from yesterday that I compiled manually and shared wasn't used for my tests and reports.

#

We are using the exact same core right now for both of us here.

floral saddle
ripe valley
#

Like that time with Radiant Silvergun. 😅

floral saddle
#

Hehe, I don't trust your eyesight Zet!

ripe valley
#

I don't even trust it anymore.

floral saddle
#

That Radiant Silvergun bug was sonething else though, so brief. Very happy to be past playtesting that one so much!

#

It's been a good few months since I checked all the old bugs for any potential regressions, might spend a few hours at rhe weekend going over a few out of interest.