Sega Saturn

[warped saddle]

I think the only thing you'd be missing out on is maybe that ridiculous saturn dual-flight stick thing?

I get sorg's trepedation to add analog trigger support to the framework for effectively 1.5 cores

[burnt matrix]

Plus it works just great through SNAC, both the Saturn 3D Pad and NeGcon

So there’s already a solution

Which I strongly recommend to anyone who is holding out hope for analog trigger support in MiSTer. Just buy a SNAC and a 3D pad. Who knows when or even if they’ll ever get added.

[burnt matrix]

And the number of games within those core that would use it is absolutely minuscule.

[pearl harbor]

I think the old quality over quantity adage is valid though in this case. When you consider a game like Sega Rally, one of the absolute best games on the Saturn, uses analog triggers, it's a solid case for implementation. Not that I personally need it mind you since I do actually have a Saturn 3D pad with SNAC.

[burnt matrix]

For visibility I would absolutely love analog trigger support because Sega Rally is incredible. So I’m definitely not against it and have personally asked Sorg about it a few times already. I’m just trying to be realistic here.

[wide glacier]

is there anything on mister besides saturn stuff that uses analog triggers

[wise brook]

one of namco’s controllers

[wide glacier]

negcon?

[wise brook]

yeah

[wide glacier]

that works fine via snac though right

[wise brook]

not sure about arcade

like, does outrun arcade have pedal sensitivity?

[wide glacier]

do we even have an outrun core

[wise brook]

yeah, it’s a couple years old at least

and turbo outrun

[wide glacier]

i know outrun uses a spinner/wheel for control but not sure if the pedals are analog

[burnt matrix]

Yeah that was one of the other examples I used where it would benefit from analog triggers

You can map the right analog stick to gas or brake

[leaden dagger]

And I think the ability for an option like (swap/map triggers to right stick axes) might be a good half way option if a hacky one

[pearl harbor]

Saturn OutRun uses analog triggers, so I'd assume arcade OutRun does as well. But can't say for sure since it's been ages since I used a real machine.

[leaden dagger]

the 3d pad is also essential for non tank movement in Deep Fear and smooth aiming in Panzer dragoon

[hearty marten]

Looks like I need to buy a 3D pad. Thanks guys

[serene thunder]

Get a MiSTer, they said. It'll simplify things

[wise brook]

https://tenor.com/view/obiwan-true-pov-star-wars-gif-10696797

[hearty marten]

More controllers

I suspect one day someone will enter this house to find my lifeless body buried under a mountain of them

[ripe valley]

OKay, we fixed the core.

Saturnday, twice this week.

[marble laurel]

Great 👍

[burnt matrix]

Thank you, my friend leaves for his teaching job today so that update will make it in.

[burnt matrix]

I made him an arcade favorites folder and a bunch of STV games were added to it. He is so excited and happy.

My friend is a huge retro fan but very technically illiterate or rather hesitant so I’m like his MiSTer FPGA tech support lol.

So to him, the MiSTer really is a magical box where everything works perfectly lol.

[high bramble]

MiSTer WhiSPerer

[burnt matrix]

This is the micro sd card I setup for him

I gave it a little mister label incase he takes it out so he doesn’t confuse it with another micro sd card

[wide glacier]

robby distributing pirated software. how the mighty have fallen

[drowsy hull]

you were faster, I salute you

[burnt matrix]

Goddamnit

you two are right I don’t know how to feel about this

[celest lake]

don't meet your heroes

[high bramble]

So, apparently his teaching job is across the 'high seas'...

There wasn't enough room on the label for SUPPORT THE DEVELOPERS.

[strong osprey]

what's on this sd card?

[burnt matrix]

Pins updated; as a reminder the Download Core pin will have a timestamp of when it was last updated.

[rich violet]

Cool! Does it pass all the latest celeriyacc tests?

[ripe valley]

I'm performing them right now.

I can only perform them on a Dual RAM core, as the Single RAM fails some on the RAM timings.

[rich violet]

I hope the test suite will one day be public 🙂

[bleak flame]

Do latest unstables require unstable main?

[burnt matrix]

They do not require it but it is recommended as the latest update included some CD seek fixes for the Saturn core.

I have been utilizing unstable MiSTer builds for years and have never had any issues if that helps.

[bleak flame]

Sounds good. Thanks.

[burnt matrix]

If you do replace your MiSTer file, make sure to reboot your system first before trying to run any cores.

@ripe valley I know I'm lucky with the timing but I still want to say thank you for posting about it and the builds being available. I'm very happy I was able to give my friend the latest and greatest. His jaw opened when he saw arcade Radiant Silvergun running on his MiSTer lol.

Also as a heads-up. This was the commit message with the latest update:
[Sergiy Dvodnenko 2025-08-10 5af3a61] VDP1: minor optimization for reduce LE

That doesn't have any direct application for end users right now but it is very exciting that srg320 is taking the steps to optimize space for any future potential additions. Really cool to see.

[safe trail]

I recall seeing recently that there were some games which were reliant on having sucode indexes. Were those audio tracks or Data tracks ?

I ask because I've been reviewing PC-FX games' subcodes, and found a majority of them have indexes within their data tracks (and only one has an additional index in the audio)

I don't think any PC-FX games are reliant on this, but it's just a strange fact for the moment

[ripe valley]

Audio tracks, like with Monster Slider having all the dialogues of the game on a single track, same for Chase HQ.

[safe trail]

OK, interesting

[ripe valley]

All the technical tests passed, once again.

All GREEN.

🎉

[drowsy hull]

Just to be sure, Saturn (DS) should ouput dv1 480i without issues?
In picture every n-th frame or so such a small one tries to mix in.

Having no other setup accepting 480i dv to get a different data point I am unsure if I should see this as a core limitation, or complain to zakk (being the dv1 fall guy) repectively pfx.

[burnt matrix]

Any way to set Shienryu to horizontal display?

[ripe valley]

On ST-V ? No option.

[burnt matrix]

I went into the test menu and changed v/h switch to normal but it’s still rotated

At least Terra Diver works with rotation, I’ll take that small victory lol

Where are the arcade settings saved? Under the Saturn folder in //media/fat/saves?

[ripe valley]

I found a game that doesn't work on the core.
No 3DO for you!

And a second one.

[marble laurel]

so many 🙂

[crimson hemlock]

Amazing stuff!

[drowsy hull]

Ok, I think my problem is a dv1/m4k issue as the picture is stable when rebooting m4k until a mode change happens (then it is broken again).

[burnt matrix]

Wow which ones?

[ripe valley]

Ochige Designer, it stays on a loading screen after choosing an option on the main menu.

I'm chasing the last remaining issues on the core in terms of gameplay.

Obscure JP games are a great target, as the QA wasn't generally the best on these.

[wise brook]

one of the rarest games on the platform

“games”

[ripe valley]

Like GeGeGe no Kitarou, one of the rarest.

[marble laurel]

confirmed

Saturn has a demo scene ?

[ancient surge]

Hope you enjoy dating sims and mahjong.

[vernal sun]

I played with a NeoCon last night for the first time. It’s trippy but actually works surprisingly well. Like a valid alternative to a wheel for that generation. I only used it with R4 so not sure how well or not it works for other games

[clear condor]

Quite well. The NeGcon came out before the Dual Shock, and it works in pretty much all the PS1's big racing games

all the Ridge Racers, both Gran Turismos, CTR

[vernal sun]

CTR too? Niiiiice

I was so impressed I may buy one to use for my actual PS1

It does feel a little weird at first but I bet after an hour or two with it you’d wonder how you ever played those games without it

[wise brook]

might have found a bug in Road Rash

trying to confirm

wrong menu graphics, occasionally garbled

[burnt matrix]

it's the ultimate Wipeout controller imo

[upper dust]

Bose Jefferson. Artist must have been watching Married With Children when an Acoustic Wave commercial came on

[ripe valley]

I am immune.

[ripe valley]

I will check within the next hour.

[pearl harbor]

Luckily the best way to fix this bug is to finish the 3DO core!

[wise brook]

i’ll try to test this with an original Saturn (rhea modded) later

[wise brook]

the machine the plays Twisted! ™ will continue to be delayed until its library improves

[pearl harbor]

What a twisted way of thinking!

[ripe valley]

Small but active.

[tawny forge]

Dual SDRAM is the superior setup again!!!

[hearty marten]

It always has been…

[ripe valley]

I can't reproduce it with my MiSTer Pi.
Please retry with the Fast timings option.

[wise brook]

dual sdram

i ain’t no peasant

might be a chd issue

[ripe valley]

Okay, I will retry with my Dual RAM system.

I've done my CHD myself.

[wise brook]

only appeared after completing a race IIRC

as soon as little Baba is settled, I’ll look again

[ripe valley]

Okay! I let you retry later.

[wise brook]

clean rip seems to have solved the garbled graphics

the music does seem to cut out though regardless

gonna compare to my saturn

[wise brook]

right, Saturn with Rhea, music plays in the menus without issue.
Mr Dual SD music cuts around 30 seconds

even if doing nothing

[ripe valley]

All emulators have the same issue so far.

The music cuts for me when changing a character.

[wise brook]

would not be surprised if the game has some undocumented behavior the saturn fixes

but is missing from the core

[ripe valley]

I opened an issue ticket.

We will probably need to decompile partially the code of the game.

[warped cliff]

Just wondering, have there been load speed comparisons between the MiSTer core and ODE modded consoles? I wonder if they are close enough that they can be lumped together on competitive speed run categories

The core is really the only Saturn I have and it's far too accurate for the emulation category

[ripe valley]

Some ODE are reading data too fast compared to a real system with an original disc, like with the SAROO.

They bypass the original CDBlock and use faster loading speeds.

But there is also a database for speeding down for some games, otherwise they break.

[river river]

I personally wouldn't lump in Saroo or the Satiator in the ODE category on the Saturn. Only the Fenrir, MODE and Rhea/Phoebe

[warped cliff]

Is the MiSTer core's load speed comparable to any of those? Or does it try to simulate the timing of a real system?

[ripe valley]

It should simulate a real system, if I understood well the last developmets on the core and the changes on Main.

[warped cliff]

Really? Even the wind up and wind down and what have you?

[river river]

I think the lack of seek time would be the one part where there'd a difference in load times

[warped cliff]

But if you power on a real Saturn with a real disc reader, and load a game in the core simultaneously, it should stay mostly in sync?

[ripe valley]

That's what I've done the last year on all games I have at home.

On the latest versions since a week (VF intro and some other games), it stays on sync all the time I tried during an hour.

[river river]

Nice

[ripe valley]

We don't know for the VDP1 at the moment, but all other chips on the board respond to the same timing as a real system.

Even some super obscure quirks on the SCU DSP and the SH2s.
Some could take years for software emulators, after discussing last week with srg320.

[wide glacier]

saroo i can see, but why not the satiator? does it bypass the cd block as well? never owned one so not familiar with how it works

[ripe valley]

FPGA is sometimes easier than software emulation concerning timings.

[warped cliff]

But just the fact that it matches up with all the variables of a CD hardware, all the moving parts

[wide glacier]

i imagine it's just like the original drive with zero seek time

[river river]

I'm not a deep expert but I said that because it gets plugged into the mpeg slot and not the CD bus like the others. Perhaps there's some magic that makes it run at the same speed as the other, idk

[wide glacier]

fair enough

[warped cliff]

Yet I'm hearing that its sync tested with real CD hardware

[wide glacier]

then i guess it's comparable to a real saturn with a healthy drive

[warped cliff]

I'm honest to goodness flabbergasted

[ripe valley]

srg320 and kuba-j recently worked together for getting the correct min and max seek times on the core.

[subtle seal]

hi friends, think i will be side-by-sideing it, is this a recent core update that this is true for?

because the last time i did this, maybe 5-6 months ago, it wasn't anywhere close to comparable when it comes to cd load times. easily 6-7 seconds faster on virtual hydlide load time.

i ask because this matters for speedrunning

[ripe valley]

Those speedrunners.

😏

[subtle seal]

those me's 😉

[glossy steppe]

I need more coffee, I mis-read this as "Don't meet your horses" and was very confused

[burnt matrix]

I’m a slow runner

[subtle seal]

my twitch chat tells me that all the time

[river river]

I'm guessing this might be related?

[burnt matrix]

It is, yes

[subtle seal]

ooooh so this is super recent

[glossy steppe]

Are these tests publicaly avaliable? I have been trying to find information about them to try them on real hardware and other software emulators to compare

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, da pins all updated with latest

[ripe valley]

Not at the moment.

[ancient surge]

Wouldn't the loading just be inherently faster anyway, since there is no physical disc to read from?

[subtle seal]

that's always been the problem

[ripe valley]

@glossy steppe I disclosed parts of the SCSP test last year, as it was necessary, but the tests need some improvements and additions along the mutual research with Ymir and the FPGA core.
On real hardware, we've already done tons and tons of testing.

[subtle seal]

i'll have to give the recent unstable a whirl soon

[ripe valley]

Sometimes I realize I'm talking to people who have shaped parts of my life, like wanting to work on foundations of preservation and emulation.

Zophar's Domain is one of them.

[burnt matrix]

Zophar, so good!

[glossy steppe]

I see, thanks.

[ripe valley]

Please try to give me feedback whenever you like, I'm always intrigued by other people's results.

[subtle seal]

definitely! i'll probably mess around with it a bit tomorrow when i'm off

[burnt matrix]

I like speed runners because they’re like hardware whisperers, they can sense when something is off

I’m not being facetious, it’s genuine praise

just in case lol

[ripe valley]

Yes, that's related.

srg320 measured some values on the CDBlock with the logic analyzer he has.

You can't have zero seek time, otherwise some games might fail, and also if you take too long to seek.

[warped cliff]

Timing is such a huge deal in hardware design

[ripe valley]

And if you find discrepancies between the core and a real system, that means more time fixing the core and not working on the 3DO.
😏

[wide glacier]

[warped cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-whoo-hoo-yes-yay-gif-9848298218460771056

[warped cliff]

You hear that @subtle seal ?

Haha in all seriousness, I don't have that much hate for the 3D0, even if I do spell it with a zero

[wise brook]

fun fact, Leadbetter from Digital Foundry used to call it the 3DO’H

https://tenor.com/view/homero-simpson-out-d-oh-gif-15451551

[warped cliff]

Bahahahahaha that's too good

[subtle seal]

haw!

[tawny forge]

Just like 8BitDo’h

[burnt matrix]

We are not worthy

[ripe valley]

More seriously, it will soon be the case that srg320 will work almost majorly on the 3DO.

The Saturn core is almost done.

[warped cliff]

What about the VCD card? I heard it enhances some games

[ripe valley]

No place left on the FPGA.

[warped cliff]

Ah bummer, fair enough

[ripe valley]

Single is 99%, Dual is 98% of the whole LEs on the chip.

[warped cliff]

Pure insanity

[ancient surge]

VCD isn't necessary for any game anyway. Even the game that is technically an exclusive.

[ripe valley]

And srg320 must have simplified some parts of VDP1 today.
Otherwise, compilation would have been impossible.

[burnt matrix]

lol

[ripe valley]

Gaining like 7 LABs and passing the compilation with just 1 LAB left on the chip.

[wise brook]

it’s wild that of all the consoles the de-10 could max out on its this.

[warped cliff]

N64 is kinda maxed out too isn't it?

[burnt matrix]

I’m guessing it’s because of its highly unique architecture and loads of functionality

[ancient surge]

Not that surprising. The SEGA Saturn has a lot of processors.

[ripe valley]

Around 90% but FPGAZumSpass had to cut some corners.

srg320 didn't cut anything so far.

[wise brook]

more of, it needed less LE’s but a lower latency and speeds the board couldn’t quite manage

[ancient surge]

Any unused functions that could be removed without consequences?

[ripe valley]

14 ICs and all the registers + synchronizations.
The VDPs are real beast.

[warped cliff]

I guess FPGAzumSpass and srg320 are the only ones who who had to deal with LE limitations in projects they started themselves

[ripe valley]

The Single core can't take the real RAM speeds and accesses to the SCU DSP, it fails by almost nothing, but it fails the specific test.

That's what is necessary for Grandia on some cases.

[winter phoenix]

Saturn Grandia’s a beast

[wise brook]

silly thought. i wonder if 1 more sdram chip, using half of the second gpio would have been enough for this (and leave analog output)

just a pinch more bandwidth

[warped cliff]

But you have to adjust dip switches on the board don't you?

[wise brook]

i’d be surprised if the analog out had to use all the one side

[wise brook]

are they just to tell the MiSTer kernel what’s attached?

[warped cliff]

tbh idk, but it seems to be prereq for a dual ram setup

[ripe valley]

I quickly tested over JPN 175 (obscure) games today with the latest unstable core.
Only found 3 with issues.

Time to rest.

[warped saddle]

it uses over half the available pins, 26 at a minimum

[wise brook]

https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-dicaprio-heart-attack-meme-heart-fail-heart-stopper-gif-13611838556404335695

de10 limitations strike again

just a few more exposed cyclone 5 pins might have clinched it

although exciting for future projects

[teal steppe]

but it almost do not show. The N64 core is, next to the SAT core a wonderful miracle. Both cores are the reason I had to get a Mister ASAP.

[ripe valley]

I rushed through the last core tests as I need to rest and take a vacation right now for at least a week.

[glossy steppe]

Is there even a single software emulator that supports the VCD either? From what I have been able to find supposedly there is only one that does, some emulator I have never heard of called Nova that supposedly does but it's still in the early stages of emulating Saturn games at all.

[glossy steppe]

I'm not that surprised, it's hardware was a bit of a mess. Two CPUs, two quad-based GPUs, a processor for the sound, a processor for the cd drive, a processor to control all THOSE processors, and I think there is at least one more processor for good measure. I think only the Jaguar was just as much of a mess of hardware. Wonder if that one will take up a lot of the FPGA's space as well when it's done.

[ripe valley]

And, it's a simplified view.

[green swift]

Anyone know of any albums written for the SCSP? I've gotten really into chip tunes and the SCSP seems like it could be an ultimate chip for making some bangers.

Is there even an SCSP scene?

[rich violet]

https://youtu.be/jOyfZex7B3E?t=80
I saw this a while ago. The maker of the Satiator ODE got into it because he was interested in the SCSP capabilities, but got distracted from that and made the Satiator to be able to run code on there easily.

At 9:11 he mentions he's planning to go back to the music stuff

[green swift]

That's actually a cool bit of trivia!

[serene thunder]

This has also been a question of mine. There is a piano school software which includes a MIDI adapter for Saturn

[drowsy hull]

Is that the initial vud which opened the 5yr patreln money floodgate ?

[wide glacier]

i think some games used the scsp to generate the entire soundtrack

[serene thunder]

I'm curious whether Saturn could have any sort of music studio application the way Mega Drive has done

It also has Techno Motor if you just want to make beats

You play the beats using the controller inputs

[wide glacier]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN7Spu1P-Xc not exactly an album but i believe shinobi x uses the scsp exclusively for most of it's soundtrack

[green swift]

I’ll give it a listen later!

[green swift]

This Shinibi X soundtrack is really good so far! Wonder what it would sound like if someone took it to its limits? Kinda like this Demo scene soundtrack for ESFM, a chip that competed with OPL3. Some of the tracks it’s hard to believe it’s just an FM chip. https://youtu.be/i_4dg8xUaBA?si=2huJH9v9IdllAsz4

[manic moss]

Correction, it's not an OPL3 competitor. It's an OPL3 clone with unique capabilities (that ESS wasted by poorly documenting them).

Nevertheless, ESFM produces some utterly insane results when used in its native mode.

[green swift]

SCSP seems even more advanced from what (little) I’ve been able to read about it. Seems like a good platform for Remute to make an album on.

[safe trail]

So I guess there's not enough free LE's to add XE-1AP support to Saturn huh ?
No big deal. I need to fix a couple of things on the module anyway, but it should be pretty small once it's done

[hallow fossil]

I don't think that controller works on Saturn does it? I am sure you corrected me when I got mixed up a few weeks back

It is Mega CD, 32x, Mega Drive

[green swift]

It works on PCE too I think? Just undocumented.

[hallow fossil]

Oh yeah, on lots of things, David has implemented it there and tickets open to port work to a number of cores

[burnt matrix]

Shinobi X much better than Saturn fans had me believe. Maybe it gets bad at the end?

[noble escarp]

Wait, what? Xe1-ap works on Saturn?

[drowsy hull]

Fake fans 🤷‍♂️

maybe of the NA type

[burnt matrix]

Yeah they were American lol

[drowsy hull]

Figures, jealous of that missing opening cutscene and/or euro music

[burnt matrix]

Oh wow I had no idea. Is the European music actually better or is just a stylistic difference?

[drowsy hull]

That's for you to decide

[thorn pagoda]

i seem to remember someone saying the saturns sound chip is insanely overspecced for the job and could easily do some really high end synthesizer stuff

[upper dust]

It was produced later, and made to sound more like a Shinobi game. It's a better game than reviews at the time would have you believe.

[open swan]

it was more that it combined similar capabilities as the PSX sound chip in a digital sense with analog synth as well. It was kinda like a nice arcade sound chip yeah.

[high bramble]

"It was kinda like a nice arcade sound chip"

Well, that was certainly convenient. 😏

[hallow fossil]

I think @safe trail may have confused Saturn with Mega CD/32x, I don't think there is a way to use it on Saturn but I could be wrong

[safe trail]

I was reading up on this site - he made mention of Saturn, but apparently it may just be to report that nothing is supported.

https://sankichi.backdrop.jp/cyberstick_ab_1.html

If you go to page 3, there is a list of systems and I didn't expect some of them

Apparently it works on Famicom After Burner ?!

oh, he reduced it to just being digital mode on Famicom

It's a bit hard to follow the article even when translated

[slate karma]

This site looks like it's covered audio types used in Saturn games, seems Scorcher is almost entirely sequenced music excl. one redbook track? Music folder is... almost 2.5MB 😄
https://minirevver.weebly.com/audio-formats-in-saturn-games.html

Jesper Kyd did the score, so would make sense he'd want to exploit any sound hardware he could.

[ripe valley]

Road Rash - partial 2ch streaming (.aiff files in menus)

Interesting, most interesting.

[slate karma]

Yeah, it's a super interesting and very thorough list.

Soundtrack to Scorcher sounds really good too btw, like it's beyond Kyd's normal tracker stuff from Amiga or MD-era synth music.

[wise brook]

aha

[ripe valley]

kuba-j had an idea earlier today, but after a new compilation time, it crashes the core after loading a game.

Back to the drawing board.

[serene thunder]

That's a good raver soundtrack

[slate karma]

Great music, game itself is not wonderful (until I get the hang of it maybe)

[winter phoenix]

Hey @ripe valley do you have the latest VDP2 test results for the core handy?

[ripe valley]

EDIT : Gimme a minute, that's not the correct one.
I will perform the test with the bug fixed version.

[ripe valley]

Since I last tested the VDP2 chip, celeriyacon has added more tests.
And one of them isn't entirely accurate again, that's about the HRES register latch position I mentioned last time.
srg320 will need some more subtests about it.

[wise brook]

chat what does this mean/affect

[ripe valley]

This is also why the tests and results are not shared publicly at this stage.

Adjustments are being made on both sides (emulation/FPGA, as well as testroms).

The VDP2 testrom can even be dangerous if misused, as it forces CRTs beyond their maximum capacity, into hidden and undocumented resolution modes.

If you like loud whining noises and/or white smoke.

[ripe valley]

It just affects the extreme accuracy of the chip, nothing in games uses them with that much precision.

[glossy steppe]

Would this hurt anything on a real Saturn if you have it connected to a modern LCD screen or an upscaler? Or if using the MiSTer over HDMI? (Not sure if it would still cause problems on the Analog board)

[tawny forge]

No 3DO for us it seems

[ripe valley]

Modern panels are safe.
Nothing will harm the Saturn, just the VDP2 freaks out a little bit during the tests, but keeps working.
Only a few older CRTs might be damaged, as the tests tested all possible modes on the Saturn.

Don't run this VDP2 test program with a CRT TV unless you have a fire extinguisher at the ready.

[glossy steppe]

Would having a copy of Burning Rangers at the ready be the same thing?

[ripe valley]

Anyway, the core is in great shape now.

I'll be testing some more games today and maybe tomorrow. I have to go away for a bit after that for medical reasons & maybe travel later this month.

[glossy steppe]

No prob, you're doing insane work

[sturdy dagger]

If Resident Evil 1/Biohazard 1 needs testing. I'm always down to test them games haha.

[ripe valley]

Go on.

[visual grove]

Consumer CRTs dying from weird signals is rare, they don’t just get driven directly by incoming scan rate starting around the 80s, there’s a PLL that tries to align that scan rate to an expected range around say NTSC. It’s why so many people are bummed they cant show some arcade cores on their TVs they’ll just not lock and drive the deflection. Arcade monitors would be more likely to be hurt because their flexibility comes from being free running esp for older monitors. So if say if deflection was only designed for 15khz it might still try to handle the higher scan rate and fry

[sturdy dagger]

I just really like Resident Evil. I did actually do a Biohazard 1 playthrough on some dual ram version of the core and it ran absolutely fine. (I believe I added it to some Google sheets comparability thing). But any excuse for me to test RE1, I will do.

[ripe valley]

You have now an excuse.

[sturdy dagger]

I'm currently trying to finish Leon B on the PSX core. After that I'm hoping the turbo N64 core is available with the Biohazard 2 fixes. Which il end up completing Leon B on it. (As I did Claire A on the fixed test Biohazard N64 core)

Then I can do some Saturn Resident Evil.

Maybe play as Chris this time.

[ripe valley]

@winter phoenix This is what the VDP2 test showed when I announced that the core had passed all technical tests.

I don't know what you want to do with this information, but I hope I was able to answer your request.

[visual grove]

3DO Development Can Continue: FAIL

[mortal mist]

I finished Biohazard

Works perfect

[ripe valley]

Oh yeah, it is on the compatibility list.
Sorry about that.

[winter phoenix]

Thanks. And there isn’t a VDP1 test yet, right?

[ripe valley]

Not at the moment.

[glossy steppe]

We're testing this thing more throughly than Aperture Science would have

[ripe valley]

That's probably why we had some regression last time on Akumajou Dracula X and some remaining issues now.

In fact, the core is now more tested than the Neo Geo and Mega Drive ones.

[burnt matrix]

This is the most attention Saturn received outside Japan!

huehuehuehue

[glossy steppe]

What about Brazil?

Or was that just Master System and Genesis?

[high bramble]

That Saturn sure is a needy (fat) baby.

[burnt matrix]

I think just Master System

[glossy steppe]

Not even Genesis?

[drowsy hull]

Actually it was NA slacking off and pulling it down (and to a certain degree the opposite for n64...)

[rich violet]

Mega Drive was huge in Brazil

[burnt matrix]

I’m the expert on Brazil; despite having never lived there, visited there, or known more than 10 Brazilians

trust

[cursive tree]

Master System and Genesis were huge in Brasil

And they still are

[burnt matrix]

oh no an actual Brazilian, please don’t oust me as a charlatan

I make my fame by pretending to be an expert on retro games

I actually didn’t know about the popularity of the Genesis there. That’s pretty cool.

All you hear from YouTube is Master System

Honestly, and I’m not being jokey here. The Master System in my mind has become the Brazil console lol. I mean that with utmost respect and affection.

[cursive tree]

Master System is my all time favorite console. Genesis ( Mega Drive here) has many fans here too.

Greats Genises games hacks and homebrews are developed by brazilians

Like Final Fight MD, Batman Returns

[hushed hinge]

golden axe warrior for the SMS is so good

[wide glacier]

neutopia and golden axe warrior > zelda 1

[cursive tree]

Some great SMS games:

Alex Kidd in Miracle World
Alex Kidd in Shinobi World
Alex Kidd in High Tech World
Phantasy Star
Castle of Illusion
Wonder Boy
wonder Boy III
psycho fox
Double Dragon
Shinobi
Asterix
R-Type
Sonic 1
Spider-man
California Games
Black Belt
psychic world
dynamite dux
Alex Kidd in Shinobi World
lucky dime caper starring donald duck
Golden Axe
Golden Axe Warrior
golvellius
Vigilante
Y’s

Castle of Illusion and Sonic 1 are better on SMS than Genesis

[wise brook]

the fan made Alex Kidd 2 & 3 are also worth playing

[wide glacier]

master of darkness is good

[wise brook]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KTjDCHzPujI&pp=ygUTc29yY2VyeSB2YWN0aW9uIHNtcw%3D%3D

this!

fun Alex Kidd rom hack

fair to call it a total conversion mod

[ripe valley]

No new issues found today and the compatibility list continues to improve.

[tawny forge]

I think this is from @spiral geyser ?

It’s a great game indeed!

[spiral geyser]

Yes, that's from me and my team. Glad you all like it :3

[wise brook]

thank you for making this

i beat it on a game gear i brought back from the dead

[serene thunder]

Power Strike 1 & II
Space Harrier

[spiral geyser]

Let's see when the prequel will be done. We are still working on the engine. Will be an Action Adventure.

[vernal sun]

Alex Kidd in Shinobi World so good it’s listed twice!

[winter phoenix]

Thank you for the abridged list 😛 I like Rastan, Hang On and Golden Axe Warrior

[serene thunder]

Hi Tech World, that I am not onboard with

[vernal sun]

Never played that one but I played a shlode of shinobi world as a kid

[crimson hemlock]

Master System's "We have Castlevania at home" but great game all the same

[dense sundial]

Hey uh, is this known? Nasty clicking noise in Hexen's menu

Ow, my ears

Latest stable and timings don't matter

[burnt matrix]

Yes but I think you have a bigger problem with the video flipped upside down.

[dense sundial]

-# stupid phone

Hmm, you know what, this might've been a bad rip, I don't hear CD audio at all

[burnt matrix]

MiSTer wins again!

[dense sundial]

ohh, that was definitely a bad rip

[ripe valley]

The stable have multiple issues that have slipped from our vigilance, use unstable core from 08/10 and unstable Main instead as possible.
And possible bad dump here.
EDIT : Ninja'ed.

[dense sundial]

it only had one track

Yeah, that was a bad rip

It's fine now, nevermind

I have to redo my entire Saturn folder with proper redump releases dangit

It chugs but still better framerate than Saturn Doom

[burnt matrix]

At least it doesn’t buttchug

[coarse trellis]

Graphics issue on GUNBIRD since 2025 Build. 1st picture is 2024 build.

[ripe valley]

The game needs the Fast Timings option as ON.

Gunbird needs the precise RAM speeds for those scenes.

As we have tightened all the timings on the SCU in order to be accurate to the real system, some games will now require the option on the Single RAM version.

[burnt matrix]

Ohhh, I didn’t know that about Gunbird

[strong osprey]

Pistol Fowl

[coarse trellis]

Thanks Bro~ will try👍

[ripe valley]

We had another user with the same issue on June 17. @burnt matrix

That's how I found the necessity of the option for some more games back then.

I try to leave a note on the compatibility list when we find another one.

I will redo the test right now, as maybe the last change on the VDP1/2 could improve the situation.
EDIT : You need the Fast timings option, even on the last unstable version (2025-08-10). It works correctly with it.

[wide glacier]

so have we gotten to a point where it can be confidently said that dual sdram is recommended for best performance on the saturn core

[floral saddle]

I think that's been the case for some time now.

[ripe valley]

Father Christmas was difficult to test.

So much static and click/pops on the sound department.

That's on the original game after some checks on the real system.

[burnt matrix]

[asterisks] for specific games.

Otherwise then the fast timings option is good enough for those special case scenarios and unneeded for the vast majority of the library.

I think people need to be made aware of what those special case scenarios are and can decide if dual ram is worth it or not for their own use.

Sorry I am annoying about this I know.

[wide glacier]

not annoying to be knowledgable

was planning on buying another mister soon and considering getting a dual ram setup and using direct video. would prefer to ditch my real saturn and play on the core instead, as i prefer playing on mister

i love the saturn enough that i feel getting dual ram and using direct video would be a worthwhile upgrade

[burnt matrix]

Yeah definitely

With ram being so cheap now, at least I think it is,

[ancient surge]

The fast timing on the single RAM isn't fool proof. Since you are skewing the timings everywhere else, it can introduce bugs. That's why srg does not recommend reporting issues with the fast timings on.

[wide glacier]

yeah, i'd prefer overall more accurate timings with dual ram then having to selectively use fast timings with single ram

[upper dust]

I ordered a 32mb ram stick and Direct IO board from MiSTer Addons for these reasons, for my second travel MiSTer.

[floral saddle]

Same here, less things sharing the same memory space means more accurate timings for everything you play.

[burnt matrix]

Well, the core works perfectly or near perfectly for the vast majority of games. It’s just a few of them that need a little bit extra until a better method is figured out or until we get new hardware.

[dense sundial]

Does direct video HDMI work with the HDMI splitter? (So I could still record to the capture device and play separately while having dual RAM on)

[burnt matrix]

So dual ram won’t improve everything, just improves the games that have issues and will perform slightly better than the fast timing option. At least that’s what I’ve been told.

[dense sundial]

My capture device (Elgato HD60X) has passthrough but has severe issues with resolutions below 720p

[burnt matrix]

It just boils down to being made aware of what games have those issues, evaluating whether fast timings works for you if you do want to play those games, and if not then deciding if you want to buy dual ram to play them as best as they can at the moment.

[upper dust]

Yeah mostly improves 3D 480i fighters and a few others. It's why I put it in my travel MiSTer if we end up playing some DoA or Fighting Vipers.

[burnt matrix]

For some of us, myself included, the answer is yes. I have dual ram.

-# because I am a sicko who wanted to play Jaguar early on lol

[floral saddle]

I set the Jaguar core up just to play with the VLM, it's soooo good!

[ripe valley]

Some changes are necessary on the VDP1 timings, FEDA Remake shows some flickers on the sprite layer when the camera needs to move.

[upper dust]

This too. Betting on 3DO being dual ram at the start and want to be ready in case

[wide glacier]

i used to not be super fond of direct video, but i've been using it in one of my candy cabs lately and it's really good. about as flawless as i could hope for, so far

[burnt matrix]

I don’t think it will be. The priority for MiSTer is single ram and I do not know if the hardware’s timings require dual ram usage.

but uhhhh I’m not a core programmer so what do I know lol

[ancient surge]

All we know is that srg warns that 3DO won't be 100% compatible with the MiSTer.

[wide glacier]

why is that?

[burnt matrix]

If there is a core that requires dual ram it’s only because every effort was made for it to function on single ram and it just wasn’t possible.

yeah I dunno it’s all good

It’s cool we have options

Sorry I talk too much, srg320 is a miracle worker and we are all in his debt. He’s single-handedly responsible for making me a huge fan of the Saturn.

https://tenor.com/view/segata-sanshiro-nod-yes-gif-5612081

[mighty zephyr]

I remember him saying something about vram being a problem so he’s using workarounds with mister hardware which might cause delays in vram so some games may not be fully accurate to real hardware.

[wide glacier]

i see

[hallow fossil]

I imagine 3DO will initially be dual ram, or certainly it could be a good while until there is parity with single ram

[random shard]

I think kingherb may mean this post https://x.com/srg320_/status/1879815160917070071?t=oEBTbXvv_1HthTmoEQUuRQ&s=19

Sergiy Dvodnenko (@srg320_)

@_trapexit Yes, VRAM is a problem. FPGA memory is enough for two framebuffers, which are usually located at the beginning of the VRAM. There should be no delays. The rest of VRAM will be emulated in ddram. There will be delays in this area. That's why the core can't be accurate on Mister.

X · Jan 16, 2025, 8:57 AM

[wide glacier]

interesting, thank you for clarifying

[random shard]

One of the many concessions that had to be made for 5th gen to be possible on the MISTer

So perhaps the naysayers were partially right?

[burnt matrix]

I don't think they're right or wrong. Everyone just has varying degrees of what they deem to be acceptable. For some it's complete cycle accuracy and that's an incredibly tough accomplishment to get on even 16-bit systems. For others, fudging the behavior so that it's similar but not exactly the same so the end result still feels like the original is completely fine.

I'm definitely in the latter camp but have complete admiration and respect for people in the first camp.

[thorn pagoda]

its accurate enough that new tests had to be written to even discover its minor inaccuracies

[burnt matrix]

Yeah that's like the blend between the two. They do what they can to make it work and still be the most accurate thing imaginable lol.

[random shard]

I'd say that's a accurate enough for me 🤣 🤣

[clear condor]

I think there are people who will never be satisfied with anything except a real Sega Saturn

[thorn pagoda]

also that tweet doesn't apply to dualram

[clear condor]

If you try to tell original-console die-hards that your emulation thingy resolves a previous inaccuracy they pointed out earlier, they will generally just move the goalpost to the next thing your emulation thingy can't do

[random shard]

Joke's on them, the amount of work those things need to work correctly is a pain. I've seen professional modders taking a "break" from repairing sega saturns

[burnt matrix]

I talk a lot about dual ram but I didn't have a full understanding behind it's necessity. I asked about it here - #fpga-platforms message

I think that'll be very helpful for us non-developers to read.

[burnt matrix]

lol it's true!

[clear condor]

Every disc-based system is a tearful goodbye waiting to happen

[random shard]

No tears from me

[thorn pagoda]

ODEs can extend that a lot at least

[random shard]

Especially from optical media

[warped saddle]

Robby we didn't want non-developers to read that

[thorn pagoda]

a saturn with an ODE is basically solid state - only really need to worry about the caps

[ripe valley]

Complete cycle accuracy is a rabbit hole.

[celest lake]

MiST2r confirmed

[random shard]

True but even with ODEs, recaps, other components failing, traces going bad. All the amount of work in troubleshooting these old consoles puts off even the bravest, at times

[wide glacier]

not to mention all the other mods available for some systems

rgb mods for famicom, fram/bios mods for saturn, edge enhancer for snes, etc.

controller adapters and new power supplies and shit lol

mister makes it all a non-issue ❤️

[clear condor]

then you get into Sega Saturn of Theseus, where it's hardly even its original self anymore

[ripe valley]

Like those motherboards on Ali'.

[random shard]

Is 100% even possible? I'm losing faith. Even the late Near said his PPU implementations were not 100%

[ripe valley]

In an acrylic cases + SAROO.

[burnt matrix]

Real talk here, I'm still going to get it wrong so the more people that understand it, the quicker they can correct me lol

[wide glacier]

i remember seeing those. honestly a cool idea, but i don't like gutting saturns just to put them in a 3D-printed shell to get thrown up on aliexpress

it's kind of funny to think that the saturn core is probably more accurate than a real saturn with a saroo

[ripe valley]

It is.
We don't rely on hacks and databases all along, except for Dezaemon.

[random shard]

Also the saroo is cool but the least compatible of all ODEs

[burnt matrix]

wow! that's insanely impressive

uhh, I think it is

[wide glacier]

it is

[burnt matrix]

oh ok thank you

[wide glacier]

the saroo is really nice, especially for speeding up load times in games, but the currently compatibility leaves a lot to be desired

[random shard]

The Saroo is kind of a low bar for mister. Try anything else on the maket right now

[wide glacier]

requires fiddling with timings in the config file to get a lot of games running as they should

*without exploding

[ripe valley]

The SAROO allows for easy loading without opening the system, but it requires proper pins.
This is the first flaw of a Saturn, even before the optical disc drive.

[thorn pagoda]

saroo compatability is improving all the time too

[ripe valley]

Most of the junk Saturns I could found now, have pin slots destroyed.

[random shard]

Not to mention how finnicky the cart port is on the saturn

[thorn pagoda]

but yeah fenrir is probably a better baseline for a saturn ode

[ripe valley]

You're far damn right.

[wide glacier]

yeah, not even just the cartridge port either, i find that most connectors on the saturn are fickle. my controllers and video cables always start coming loose eventually

[random shard]

Like, this is the number 1 mod the saturn needs and everyone is like "fram this, fram that".

[random shard]

I have even worse problems. 3 different saturn revisions and regions and all 3 have the same problem of not showing the correct colors

[ripe valley]

Let them show your true colors. 😂

I like to unwind a little every now and then, working and helping out on a daily basis on the Saturn core is stressful to say the least.

[random shard]

Isn't that how the saying goes? 80% of the work is done in the last 20% of the project

And the more you zero in on accuracy, the more you get sucked into the blackhole

Decapping? Check, Compilation issues? Check. Timing issues? Check. Original game developers working outside speck? Check, check, Check

[ripe valley]

Absolutely.
Last 3-4 months saw many changes at the core level.

[dense sundial]

My favorite game series on Saturn!

[ripe valley]

Frogbull tried to port the game on Saturn.

[clear condor]

can I get a Saturn with Donkey Kong art and the words "GRANDPA'S ARCADE"

[ripe valley]

I need to tackle him one more time. 😏

[marsh crypt]

Was actually considering one of these if I can't replace my current VA0 Model 1

[random shard]

Ha!

https://youtu.be/epZhxsDw03Y?si=BS0tyUpqAJGTSHHB

Konami would have probably half assed the port anyways

[marsh crypt]

Too bad the Saturn prototype is fan made.. would have been great if official

[wide glacier]

not if it was done by the same people who handled sotn lol

[amber heart]

“Oohhhh you’ve been playing Virtua Fighter haven’t you?!”

[random shard]

Loooool, that would've been hilarious

[amber heart]

MGS 1 needs more ports just for more Psycho Mantis lines

[ancient surge]

"So you've been playing Death Crimson."

[ripe valley]

Don't remind me that game!

I had to test it for the compatibility list.

[random shard]

A quick google shows no original content was made by konami on the saturn, so virtua fighter it is

[ancient surge]

I'm sorry for your loss of innocence

[wide glacier]

i'm sorry

[dense sundial]

How's your girlfriend doing in Tokeee meeky?

[amber heart]

The twin snakes mentioned Mario Sunshine so Konami involvement isn’t mandatory

[dense sundial]

I see you enjoy POLICENAUTS!

[ancient surge]

Oh you know, everything blew up and everyone hates me. Just another day at school.

[ripe valley]

I had a blast. 🤭

Lorraine too.

[random shard]

Ah. I'm never playing that "remake" 😂

[wide glacier]

i recently got a konami windy cab, and it turns out the one i got was previously used for an arcade version of tokimeki memorial. had a heart rate monitor and a printer for pictures of your favorite girl

[dense sundial]

...

[random shard]

Heart rate monitor? Kind of like bio tetris for the n64

[dense sundial]

ARCADE TOKIMEKI MEMORIAL???

[wide glacier]

that was my thought too

yep!

[dense sundial]

Why didn't punchy mention this?

[random shard]

Gimmicks, all gimmicks

[ancient surge]

Dating high school girls is serious shit.

[random shard]

A guy even patented a smell producing machine of sorts back in the early 2000s, supposedly for gaming, and it never made it to commercial phase. All gimmicks 🤣

[dense sundial]

How many games have sewer levels?

[dense sundial]

Would you stand in a line for that arcade cab?

[random shard]

Hell no

[ripe valley]

100% accuracy is a goal; you try to get as close as possible, but it's practically impossible to achieve.

And accuracy for what? You need to specify the model you want.

Even two systems aren't exactly identical depending on their manufacturing date and changes in suppliers or manufacturing conditions.

At this stage, we can approximate it with a safe tolerance scale.

We are in the high tolerance range and all the knowledge about the system to date is being used, and we have even discovered new things.

My model is that games and software should be usable, as they would be on the original hardware, with little or no difference from the original in terms of response times (less than what a human can detect).

But also, if it can meet specifications close to those of the original manufacturer.

In preservation, we have a simple standard to explain to the general public.

If the original hardware were to no longer exist, and nothing could work, would we be able to remanufacture it identically?

[dense sundial]

Only a matter of time until someone open sources a Saturn mobo

-# I hope

[random shard]

A much needed mod

[ripe valley]

The whole Ship of Theseus and the (s)crew.

[wise brook]

for the sake of all the dead Saturns caused by bad FRAM replacements…

[random shard]

I just discovered there's a guy doing just that on the snes. But we also need to make fpga replicas of proprietary chips, or discontinued chips. That would be the only way to revive my dead shvc model, it had THAT cpu revision, sadly

[ripe valley]

I saw that one.

[random shard]

Wait, bad fram mods can kill your board????

[random shard]

He's doing the lord's work

[wise brook]

The process of deplacing the original ram chip often causes lifted pads ripped traces etc etc

[random shard]

Ahh ok, like regular mod mistakes

[vernal sun]

I have always wondered how much it'd cost to make a run of chips after they have been 100% reverse engineered in FPGA. Could it actually be a cost-effective replacement? Would be cool though to have brand new replica chips. These games will live forever!

[wide glacier]

might get to a point where it makes more sense to just play on fpga

[random shard]

I believe its already being done on the nes. Not sure about cost effective, but for real hardware lovers and preservationists, its gold

I would spend lots of $$$ to keep my consoles alive at least

[vernal sun]

That's kind of my point. But if you need 4 chips at 100 dollars a pop, that's insane. If they are ~20 dollars a pop though now it starts to sound much more reasonable. Or think of that Neptune board and case. Imagine if we could use all new components? Would be amazing if you could just h ave a whole new Genesis/32x

Specially 32x. Sveral that I have opened up look to have been hand worked at the factory. Stuff was a hodge podge of different wires and such

[random shard]

Well I'll be damned

https://hackaday.com/2025/03/31/a-snes-cpu-replacement-via-fpga/

[random shard]

$100 for an fpga with just enough space for a single chip? Intel, is that you? 😂

[dense sundial]

Or you could drive Pi Zero to replace anything

Like the mythical "SuperFX3"

[vernal sun]

I am talking a hypothetical replacement chip, not a FPGA. Basically making brand new replica chips to OG hardware

[ripe valley]

We can see some on arcade boards.

Like sound chips on KONAMI boards.

[random shard]

You mean find a way to manufacture EOL proprietary chips?

Is that even possible?

[vernal sun]

SUre, if you recreate it in FPGA. Then you have the logic and blueprints to get new chips made, right? From my understanding you could then manufacturer replica chips. Not sure the legality of it at all but I think it's doable

[random shard]

And you can do that with just the schematics? Like at mouser or digikey?

[random shard]

Yeah, I was going to ask about the legality

[ripe valley]

An example.
https://youtu.be/4npWDkWbyr4

[true bramble]

i have some slow down when playing tecmo world soccer 98, on misterpi with latest unstable stv core (dualram), during the special combo with special animation.

[random shard]

Amazing. I could not find the nes chip fgpa recreations though.

[ripe valley]

RGR2C0X

[random shard]

There you go! Thats the one

I suspected RGR was involved

[glossy steppe]

Is there a reason to have it off then for single-RAM systems? Or is there any way it can bet set to auto so it gets turned on for games that need it?

[ripe valley]

It could break other games.

No simple ways for setting it as Auto.

[glossy steppe]

I don't know how undreasonble this is, but to me personally if it can run any TAS "speedrun" that heavily relies on glitching the everliving daylights out of the game and have the exact same outcome on the core as would happen on real hardware, that's accurate enough for me. At that point it's acting like the original hardware even when you are doing unintended things with it.

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, it's convinent and cheap, but it's very lacking in compatibility. From my understanding it's not possible for it to be 100% compatible and apparntly has a database of games that it applies hacks to on the fly to even work.

[winter phoenix]

Incorrect, there is Saturn-exclusive content in the Castlevania and Suikoden ports!

[glossy steppe]

I don't understand the point of this. You would still need a PSX that has all of it's chips and ports in working order, and a working drive, and doesn't add features like HDMI or even USB-C power. Seems like it's only useful if every part of your PSX except the PCB itself is working? Not to mention harvesting and re-soldering all those chips is not a simple task.

[winter phoenix]

Oh and this is a Konami-exclusive Saturn game, thank you to Konami for blessing Saturn fans with this: https://segaretro.org/Chibi_Maruko-chan_no_Taisen_Pazuru_Dama

[glossy steppe]

We can't have some kind of database file of games that would need it? Kind of like how the N64 core patches some games when you run them?

[glossy steppe]

I know little about chip manufacturing but aren't a lot of the factories/machinery for creating chips with those fabrication processes long gone? You would have to not just reverse-engineer the chip, but create a new design that can be created on modern chip fabricators.

[safe trail]

Don't think that you can "just get chips made". But if you're interested in how chips get designed and made, you can take a look at Tiny Tapeout

They can be as little as $10,000 per wafer (6" wafer) at 130nm, but that's after the cost of making the masks

There's a thing called a "PDK" which is used for the basic blocks and constraints on the logic, and every manufacturer traditionally has a different PDK for each process

[winter phoenix]

This is a Saturn-exclusive Konami game, too: https://segaretro.org/Jikkyou_Powerful_Pro_Yakyuu_S

[safe trail]

When you say "long gone", I wonder what you think you mean.

There are still lots of factories running process nodes like 130nm

which is a ~1995 process I think
Edit: sorry, 2000-2001

[winter phoenix]

This one, too: https://segaretro.org/J.League_Jikkyou_Honoo_no_Striker

[ancient surge]

There are a surprising amount of Taisen Puzzle Dama games Konami pumped out, a good amount of them crossing over with other Konami properties.

There were Taisen Puzzle Dama versions for Toki Meki Memorial, TwinBee, Pop'n Music, and Castlevania.

[burnt matrix]

I didn’t know about SWEEKOHDEN

I hate to ask but is it….

-# the definitive version?

[pearl harbor]

You can't transfer your save file to SWEEKOHDEN 2!

[winter phoenix]

You bet your bippy ||if you know Japanese|| https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2025/03/07/suikoden-remaster-releases-without-saturn-exclusive-features/

[warped cliff]

Is this a workaround?

[wide glacier]

this is what i was thinking. i know the need for fast timings are mentioned in the compatibility list, but having an internal database of what games do and don't need it would be really nice

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, I’d like to pin it.

[vernal sun]

I thought for some reason people were translating Suikoden. I guess maybe not?

[drowsy hull]

it has annoyingly long loading times

[dense sundial]

I'd imagine the replacement board is still way more convenient than sourcing and desoldering/resoldering everything from the original board, and since it's open source you can modify the design and integrate HDMI and USB-C on your own

-# not that I am an expert of course

[ripe valley]

Yes.

[ripe valley]

Creating a database won't be easy, as we need to know how each game reacts to the core (in depth across over 1,450 references), and this can be a unique moment for each game.
We would also need people to maintain and regularly update the lists.

I'm not ruling out the idea, but I don't see how to easily manage the situation in the near future.

We had already implemented the idea of automatic DRAM cartridge tuning, but it hasn't been implemented yet.

I will talk with srg320 during the next hour.

[warped cliff]

Glad to hear it is a workaround and not intended to be a long term solution. I think the way it worked with the N64 core was that it was a collaborated effort, an opportunity for many people in the community to volunteer to help flesh out the database thoroughly. It might take time but that's to be expected. But yeah as for knowing how each game works, they could probably leave a note as to their findings. FPGAzumSpass had error codes in the core to help diagnose the nature of the issue

I think quite a few people would love to help out

[wide glacier]

i know i would

[ripe valley]

Sorry, it was lost between translations, it's a permanent workaround and will stay for the DE-10 Nano at least, as we can't do it on a single RAM even after all our tries.

Some games rely on very accurate RAM accesses and the single RAM core can't make it without that little 'help'.

[warped cliff]

It really is impressive how much had been done with a nearly 10 year old fpga board

[sturdy dagger]

I didn't know it was nearly 10 years old

That's pretty impressive

[ripe valley]

Okay, a follow-up after our meeting with srg320.

We're currently addressing the last remaining issues and will prioritize some from recently opened tickets.

The ability to specify a file for the backup cart will also be investigated.

I'll probably need additional help, and I've already reached out to friends, but I'll also need the community.
We'll need to check if the Road Rash (US version) music cuts out regularly or during specific menu actions on a real system, with a real disc.

I know of some issues on the real disc, but I need to check if the core is being at fault or if only the game is doing that.

[wise brook]

@winter phoenix could you set your shiro bro onto this

[visual grove]

Damn the price of perfection is having to play road rash.

[wise brook]

i’ve only got an ODE modes console so can’t be sure how accurate that is to real disk

[visual grove]

I lost my original Saturn in a move so just have a japaense replacement with a satiator. I’m out

[ripe valley]

The ability to specify a file for the backup cart will also be investigated. => srg320 discussed with sorg, such functionality is not provided. @umbral radish

[mortal mist]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/444

Please test it with 240p games

Castlevania

Or Die Hard Arcade , Dead or Alive etc.

[ripe valley]

I can't do any good work today, so I'm taking the day off. I've been sleep-deprived for days, and my health is precarious at the moment.
And I have to contend with a work desk with almost tropical temperatures right now.
I don't want to hinder the regular quality of work here.

See you tomorrow.

[dense sundial]

not sure if this is like this on real hardware (or it's just single dram) but Hexen has pretty bad sound cuts when a lot of stuff is happening to emit a sound (latest aug unstable)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/585833915504394255/1405512540766601308/goddamn_taurs.mp4?ex=689f190e&is=689dc78e&hm=aff8ab00bf5d7163f9efce93d2ba0194748537ddaa7c5d4dedb04b92a4042e9f&

will check with footage from real hardware

but other than that (and really bad framerate dips) I am having a blast

[wise brook]

tried fast timings?

[dense sundial]

will do when I get to play again

[wise brook]

if you don’t gots enough ram for the saturn that’ll have to do

[dense sundial]

You know what, maybe it just clips like that after all

can't seem to find someone playing as Cleric who leaves fart clouds though

[ripe valley]

Download more RAM.

[glossy steppe]

I know it won't be easy, but it could just be treated as a WIP feature. It can be a list that people submit a game isn't working without it and people can then test it and confirm or deny if you need it enabled for that game. I am guessing there is some sort of internal name the games had that could be used to identify which game is which (or at least the CD label?)

[glossy steppe]

Wait, so we can only have a single set file to act as the caridge backup ram?

[burnt matrix]

wat

[ripe valley]

Like for the auto card on other soft emus, we could use the codename and/or the serial number from the header.

[formal barn]

If it is decided that a database is needed, feel free to use my Saturn game list to get started. It’s based on the Redump naming convention with the game’s associated serial number.

https://github.com/kevh182/Redump_GameID/blob/main/Sega_Saturn_Redump_GameID_List.csv

[ripe valley]

We're not here at the moment and if it is even possible, but thanks for the possible offer.

[formal barn]

No worries, I just wanted to throw it out there.

[ripe valley]

Some wanted to modify the save cartridge on the fly, as with Dezaemon 2, which could contain an archive of 200 fan-made homebrew games. Each game requires a full cartridge.

[burnt matrix]

geeeezus

Also very cool

[ripe valley]

But, this is not possible with the current design of MiSTer, if I followed correctly what emerged from the discussions between Sorg & srg320.

[burnt matrix]

Can’t support every edge case

[ripe valley]

I really need to rest, I hope I have answered everyone here for today.

[ripe valley]

The famous 80-20.

[burnt matrix]

Wait you didn’t answer my question

@ripe valley why are you so cool?

[ripe valley]

"It's a mystery."

[glossy steppe]

On the fly? Not sure what you mean. Are you saying that each game still gets its own backup RAM cart for saving? (I am assuming if this is the case each get their own internal save too)?

[glossy steppe]

Or every edge connector in this case

[burnt matrix]

lol pretty good

[glossy steppe]

Oh sorry, didn't see you were going to sleep. Later Zet-sensei

[ripe valley]

Each game has a possible BACKUP cartridge, but you cannot change it to another once the game is loaded inside the core and your are playing your game.

Like, taking it out and insert another cart.

[glossy steppe]

I see, so it's set for each game and unchangable. Reason I was asking was because what about games that made use of existing save data from other games?

[ripe valley]

I had to duplicate them and rename them for the corresponding game.

Sakura Wars Hanagumi Taisen Columns is one of them.

[glossy steppe]

Fair enough I suppose, I can just do that, was just wondering if there was an internal way to do it like on the PSX core

[ripe valley]

You can do it too from the BIOS screen.

[glossy steppe]

Panzer Dragoon does it too, I don't recall if Zewi has such a feature (I think it does) but I know SAGA makes use of a save from both games

[rich violet]

Yeah, this works. I did the same to load the save from Sega Rally into Sega Rally Netlink Edition

[glossy steppe]

So you can choose your internal and backup ram file when you are at the bios with no game loaded? Just not after a game is loaded?

[muted cradle]

Ideally that would turn-on automatically with known games.

[burnt matrix]

that would require some sort of verification check in the core along with an external database to manage. Considering just how at capacity the core is the small number of games that need it, it just needs to be up to the end user to do.

[winter phoenix]

exactly what needs to be checked in the menus?

[burnt matrix]

Deez road rashes

[ripe valley]

The music tends to cut off during the menus.

Within the first 25-30 seconds, or when you are choosing a character.

srg320 thinks it's a game bug and used a GameFAQs review complaining about the game as a clue.
But I think there's more to it, because the music works in my friends' consoles on the menus, and on all the other software emulation I've tested (NOVA, Mednafen, SSF, and Ymir).

[glossy steppe]

Wait, why would it be something that needs to be implemented into the core? Can't the Linux backend check for some kind of ID in the disk image and set that option to on if it's in a list?

[burnt matrix]

Uhhhhh maybe?

I think the N64 core worked with a database to know what save type a cart had.

So maybe replicating that could work.

[glossy steppe]

The N64 core uses a database to apply patches to a small handful of games that have issues running otherwise dosen't it?

[wise brook]

also set the correct security chip save chip etc

[burnt matrix]

It does the save stuff and what accessories work with the game too

[glossy steppe]

Pretty sure both Conker and Knife Edge are on that list, also dunno if DK64 is on that list but it's cutscenes are a bit inaccurate

[burnt matrix]

Right security chip, probably the most important part lol

[glossy steppe]

Wait, it needs a database to know what accessories a game supports? So you can't use something like a Transfer Pak if it dosen't know the game supports it?

[burnt matrix]

I think that’s baked into the core itself, just like five games have patches auto applied

[small ore]

It auto sets things, it doesn't restrict them

[glossy steppe]

Good to hear, been meaning to play Hero of Law someday, which has Transfer Pak support

[burnt matrix]

It does?

Wow for what?

[glossy steppe]

Apparnetly you unlock more cases?

With the oracle games I believe

[burnt matrix]

haha that’s neat

[glossy steppe]

I love it when games do meta stuff like that, it's why I was bringing up Monster Rancher on PSX, I always liked seeing games have crazy outside the box features like that.

[wise brook]

that’s wild

[burnt matrix]

Dude that rom hack is so insanely cool.

It blew me away

Oh yeah the Densha de Go translation patch updated the game to support the transfer pak too.

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, it's an amazing amount of work, not to mention just overall a great example of Phoenix Wright on N64

Even if you don't cross-examine a parrot

[burnt matrix]

How can you tell when someone is playing an RPG on the Sega Saturn?

when it looks like this:

“Uguu”

⚔️

[glossy steppe]

Hmmm, would Panzer Dragoon Saga count as an RPG?

[burnt matrix]

“roarguu”

🐉

[safe trail]

I'm pretty sure srg320 would want to avoid game-specific adjustments at all costs. That's a nasty place to go if you can avoid it

[ripe valley]

That's right.

[winter phoenix]

OK, I'll see if anyone in the SHIRO! server can help check this

[warped saddle]

well he already broke the 'game specific adjustment' seal

both the saturn and psx have the problem that the libraries are so large that some games have 'optimal' settings and the only way users can manage it is either fiddling with the menus on game swap or creating MGLs.

[burnt matrix]

Obviously I have no real impact but I generally discourage the rabbit hole of figuring out what the best optimal settings are and just leaving that to the end user.

[safe trail]

Well, optimal settings is different than outright different underlying operation (which I have seen in MANY software emulators)

[burnt matrix]

Yeah that’s complete poop

[upper dust]

That was a nightmare with N64 emulation for a looong time

[warped saddle]

I don't think there's anything here that's 'game is completely non-functional' so a database is probably a bit silly. but the user experience of 'oh I have to remember to go set fast timings for game X' is pretty poor

THAT'S why people are suggesting a database

[tribal needle]

Hi all,
Another potential issue to report. On the latest core (20250810), Virtua Cop 2 doesn't load. I keep getting a black screen after the bios load screen. The same image works on the 20250215 core. I've tested both single and dual RAM cores, the behavior is the same. Could anyone please confirm?

[burnt matrix]

Damn A+ report

[tawny forge]

No 3DO

[celest lake]

Confirmed. Works on the June stable

@ripe valley ^^

[floral saddle]

Black screen after bios for me too on the latest unstable core.

[tribal needle]

By the way, enabling light guns in the Input menu on the June stable causes a hangup after some time, at least with Virtua Cop 2.

[ripe valley]

Issue opened.

[glossy steppe]

I'm in agreement, but there dosen't seem to be any other way for single-RAM systems. The setting is already there, it's just auto-turning it on or off instead of doing it manually based on a list of games that need that setting on. We aren't applying game-specific hacks like the ZSNES era. The N64 core already does more than this.

[warped cliff]

I have to agree that a database that automatically sets fast timing for games that needs them would be super convenient and I hope that option is considered. But it's just one toggle right? I could just turn it on when I see an issue if that fixes it. Not a perfect experience, but not the worst. What would also be cool is if the core can somehow remember what setting you previously used per game

[pearl harbor]

Dual RAM users right now.

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-pathetic-principal-skinner-gif-13486077408184960752

[warped saddle]

The PSX core already does this. it mounts the memory cards as normal 'file mounts' in mister and manages loading it into memory on insert/change itself. The saturn core probably has no room left to do that. We could just get main to 'help'. The cart save and the on-board memory save would need to be split too, they're currently concatenated

[warped saddle]

oh wait, the saturn core already does the copy thing, hmmmm

[winter phoenix]

@ripe valley Malenko in the SHIRO! server checked the menus with his real U.S. copy of Road Rash

[celest lake]

I read that as "sorg ended".....and honestly the sentence just got weirder from there

[thorn pagoda]

what games on PSX need specific settings to work?

[hallow fossil]

A DB was mooted for setting what ram cart to use (like now N64 does for different settings) which could also set other things, but no update on if srg320 is interested in going that route and if there is space in the core

[warped saddle]

it wouldn't even involve the core, really

[hallow fossil]

Ah, so maybe still an option

What could we all benefit from being set from a DB like the N64 does?

[ripe valley]

Okay, I have four results that are converging and identical between the testers.

I'm currently running out of time and frankly lacking the energy to give srg320 a detailed answer.
I'll take care of it first thing tomorrow.

Thanks you all!

[warped saddle]

I didn't say 'to work' I said 'optimal'. like 'this game is way less ugly with this interlacing method/filter'. etc

[thorn pagoda]

oh i guess, thats kinda different though

[warped saddle]

what I'm saying is even in this saturn case the games work its just better with some option selected. The fundamental problem is the lack of any way to do per-game settings unless you start making mgls

[thorn pagoda]

yeah

per iso/rom settings is a heckin can of worms to open though

[hallow fossil]

Couldn't a DB/CSV, like N64 does, do this?

[thorn pagoda]

i like the approach used on n64 for rumble/expak etc

do saturn games have an id we can reliably pull out of the bin like on psx?

[wise brook]

i’m hoping that with the core in such an advanced and accurate state other developers feel able to submit possible solutions

[warped saddle]

yes a db COULD do it, but having the db set things that are a matter of opinion is terrible

also if you saved your settings it would save those for everything

[tribal needle]

I've been able to reproduce this lightgun issue on the stable core from June. For me, enabling the light gun on the first controller is enough to cause a hangup. The hangup happens once the running sequence ends. To give you a better idea, if you are in the attract mode and enable the light gun, the attract sequence will run until the end, and once the game switches to the loading screen, it will stay in this state forever.

[wise brook]

original light gun or gun con over USB

[tribal needle]

RS3 Retroshooter lightguns.

[wise brook]

So theoretically, any USB gun

I’ll fire her up in a few minutes

I’ve got a gun4IR

Black Screen confirmed

VC1 fine, VC2 black screen no matter what input is set

[tribal needle]

Yes, it's already reported by Zet-Sensei.

The input issue is a different one, though.

[wise brook]

i just get a black screen, no attract mode or nothing

[tribal needle]

Yes, correct. But it only happens on the latest unstable, and only with Virtua Cop 2. The input issue happens for me with the original Virtua Cop as well and is trackable to at least 20250215.

I wonder if this is related to some recent changes in Main.

[tribal needle]

I'm a bit wrong. On 20250215, the light gun works. But once I switch to the stable 20250613, all sorts of weird issues start to happen, the primary one being hangups even with the original Virtua Cop once I enable the lightgun on the first controller and shoot from it.

On 20250215, crosshair is controlled by the light gun. On 20250613, it doesn't move at all.

[glossy steppe]

I mean, technically the games run yeah (unless come flat out crash) but they havr corrupted graphics without the setting on some games. There was a screenshot posted where most of the screen was just reduced to clown vomit.

[random shard]

I meant exclusive games when I said content

Interesting bit about Suikoden though

Let me google real quick

[winter phoenix]

I followed that up with three exclusive games if you scroll down a bit from that post

https://segaretro.org/Chibi_Maruko-chan_no_Taisen_Pazuru_Dama
https://segaretro.org/Jikkyou_Powerful_Pro_Yakyuu_S
https://segaretro.org/J.League_Jikkyou_Honoo_no_Striker

[winter phoenix]

You don't have to, I described the content in this story that I also posted above: https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2025/03/07/suikoden-remaster-releases-without-saturn-exclusive-features/

[random shard]

If anyone was wondering

https://www.suikosource.com/games/gs1/indepth/saturn.php

[random shard]

Ok I stand corrected.... And dissapointed at konami 😂

[winter phoenix]

they're not the most exciting exclusives but they do exist! 😆

[random shard]

Well, those konami baseball and soccer games were really popular in japan 🤷

They also had like yearly releases but surely japanese saturn fans of the 90s appreciated them

[wide glacier]

do the dezaemon 2 user games work on the core? haven't tried it

[ripe valley]

Yes, Kikusui showed me during a private message.

[hearty marten]

There are a few PSX games that require slowing the GPU or a mild “turbo” to get the graphics to display properly, just due to timing. I think that’s somewhat similar to the “fast timings” option for the Saturn core - making some change to adjust the core timings to get them closer to what is expected for a particular game. I think that’s less subjective than things like interlacing methods

Some options like whether to use a particular RAM cart might be more subjective though

[wide glacier]

what psx games require that?

[mortal mist]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PSX_MiSTer/issues/244

[hearty marten]

It’s an incredibly tiny list 🙂

There are actually a few others off the top of my head, but not many

[glossy steppe]

Yeah, though Chrono Cross is a bit of a big one. Is this still a thing? This was mentioned back in 2023

[hearty marten]

The driver menu bug also affects NTSC too, not just PAL

[burnt matrix]

Is it still an issue

[hearty marten]

There’s a driving game, I can’t remember which one, but you can’t get past the menu unless you turn on turbo - you only need it to get past the menu, and then you can turn it off again 😅

[hearty marten]

Chrono Cross I can’t comment about, because I haven’t played it, but I’d be surprised if anything has changed since then tbh

[glossy steppe]

Just checked, still happens in Chrono Cross. Is there a disadvantage to leaving the 24 bit color option on?

By the way, messing with a lot of the video settings stops it from happening too

Enabling 480i to 480p hack, or any option on the wideswcreen hack, or enabling texture filtering

[upper dust]

Just posterization of gradients if you're using an older 18bit IO board

[glossy steppe]

So then it should not effect anything for me if I have Taki's IO board?

[upper dust]

Correct - it has a 24bit board

[burnt matrix]

Also you’re not embracing dither like the retro lord intended

[wide glacier]

so chrono cross needs turbo enabled to work properly? or am i misunderstanding

[glossy steppe]

I turn dithering off on both N64 and PSX 🙂

It needs you to enable either 24 bit rendering, the 480p hack, the widescreen hack, or texture filtering

Doesn't seem to matter if you use the turbo core or not

I think the issue dosen't happen on the dual-ram core? But I dont' have a dual-ram setup to test

[wide glacier]

i see, that's odd. i usually keep 24-bit color enabled, at least

[glossy steppe]

Apparently anything to slow the GPU down, it's accessing memory faster than the DE-10 can serve it that is causing the issue, if I understood it correctly

[burnt matrix]

@winter phoenix I forgot I still have this lol

[floral saddle]

It's the GPU running faster than real hardware to make up for DDR3 latency that is causing the issue. Better to be a bit too fast then run the risk of having slowdown when the the DDR3 is bottlenecked in a worst case scenario. Luckily the vast majority of games have no issue with it running faster.

[visual grove]

See if the Road Rash character select audio drops out

[winter phoenix]

Build it already!

[wide glacier]

@ripe valley can't seem to get any version of shinobi legions to load properly on the latest unstable single ram core. tried the usa and japan releases using the hi-saturn bios, but they both seem to hang after the sega license screen

tired disabling pad 2, enabling fast timings, and changing the region/cartridge in the core menu but it didn't seem to change anything

[mortal mist]

Works fine here

Single sdram

[wide glacier]

hmm... not sure what else to try. i'm also on single ram

does it not like the hi-saturn bios maybe?

[mortal mist]

I don't know , sorry

[wide glacier]

no worries, thank you for chiming in

[burnt matrix]

Grab another copy of the game?

[wide glacier]

i will try that a bit later... have some stuff to do in the meantime. i think i'm usually pretty good at Legally Acquiring clean roms lol, but perhaps it's a bad dump as you said

[burnt matrix]

🤷‍♂️ it’s the only thing I can think of that’s an easy fix

[ripe valley]

I can't replicate the issue at all.

[upper dust]

I think I can replicate. If you have something in the cartridge slot saved into the core settings the game gives me a black screen. Changing the Cartridge to "None" then saving the core settings, reloading the core, and loading the game makes it work. You can change the cartridge while the core and game is loaded.

[floral saddle]

can confrim, bkack screen after bios with dram 4m as the cartridge option

wonder if that is the issue with virtua cop 2 as well, will check

[burnt matrix]

I have dram 4m set and no issues here but I load my games with MGLs

Oh I have region nooses

Bios

[floral saddle]

shinibi wont boot with cartridge set to none for me either.

[floral saddle]

im booting from mgl's too, no joy!

[burnt matrix]

So I’m guessing it might be because of the bios I’m using?

[upper dust]

I'm using hi-saturn

[floral saddle]

im using a japanese region free bios

[burnt matrix]

I forgot what I’m using

[upper dust]

I get the black screen with Virtua Cop 2 with no cart

[floral saddle]

will leave that then, likely i won't get a different resultwith vc 2 either.

[mortal mist]

For me shinobi works fine with ram carts

[floral saddle]

single or dual ram?

im on dual, just in case that is a variable

[upper dust]

Single here

[burnt matrix]

I used the dual ram core for my test

[floral saddle]

thanks all. removed the bios i had been using and let update all download it, now i get game disc unsuitable for this system message

for those that have it working is your region set to auto?

[ripe valley]

Yes.

[mortal mist]

i tried single and dual

[ripe valley]

Auto region, 4MB or not, only 1 controller.

[mortal mist]

same config for me

[floral saddle]

auto region with the hi-saturn bios from update all and it now boots. will try again with the otherbios i had been using up to this point again just to be sure...

black screen as soon as i go back to the other bios i had been using, same settings otherwise

[mortal mist]

i use usa bios

[floral saddle]

is that a region free or just the standard one?

[mortal mist]

i use standard bios

[floral saddle]

oh, i was under the impression that the bios needed to be a region free variant to boot all regions

[burnt matrix]

Apologies if my pin comment did that

So the region free is recommended because you just need one and you’re golden.

But you can use region bioses as long as the games in the same folder are the same region

For for example I have a unique region bios in my Japan, Europe, and USA game folders

[mortal mist]

Yes, I use a separate bios for each region.

• auto region

[floral saddle]

I had no idea that was possible, thanks for the info. So I can have seperate USA and JPN folders and then within each have sub folders buy genre, then place the bios in the root?

[burnt matrix]

Yessir!

//media/fat/games/Saturn/USA/boot.rom

for example

[floral saddle]

Fantastic, thanks very much Robby.

However, still odd that I coildn't get shinobi to boot with the hi-saturn bios from update regardless of setting, but someone else could by changing the cartridge setting.

[dense sundial]

I was about to ask if there's a reason to not use hi-sat bios

Okay then

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, it’s just for the silly boot animations per region, which amuse me.

[celest lake]

the authentic experience. I do it for saturn and mega drive

the japanese saturn boot is objectively the best one though

[dense sundial]

My Saturn boot nostalgia only extends to Digital Foundry's Retro videos

And they used both US and Hi-Sat boot sounds

[floral saddle]

jp bios sounds amazing, i love it as much as the ps1 startup

[burnt matrix]

@mortal mist srg320 merged your 224p vertical crop option! 🥳

[floral saddle]

Thanks again for adding that request @mortal mist

[mortal mist]

👍

[leaden dagger]

Huh, no dual ram

[burnt matrix]

new builds

[tribal needle]

I've retested this issue against the latest core. It's even worse than what I described yesterday in my case. If the lightgun itself is in the mouse mode, even booting the core causes an immediate hangup after the CD changer menu is displayed. What's even weirder, the core upon boot first displays the last bios boot frame before switching to this menu.
If the lightgun is in the joystick mode, the core is able to boot the game, but once I switch the input device to the lightgun in the input options of the core, I lose any control over the game, and once the current sequence ends and the system switches to the load screen, it will stay in this state until Mister is reset.

My setup includes Mister Pi 2nd Gen and RS3 Reaper lightguns. The number of connected lightguns doesn't make any difference for me.

The game that I test this setup against is the original Virtua Cop.

[hallow fossil]

Does the core now have Zakk's bob deinterlace option? I think Kuba did that in branch?

[burnt matrix]

Heads-up, I removed the pinned comment about setting up the Saturn Titan Video as it's now part of update_all - #1046941029296779344 message

#1046941029296779344 pins

[idle vortex]

Sega Saturn:

• For New Members
• Core Developer
• Download Core
• Testing Sheet
• Important Info
• Reminder on Bugs

[warped saddle]

I love how you refer to it so formally

hello Mr. Saturn Titan Video, your table is ready

[clear condor]

Why didn't Robby post an update that ST-V setup is part of update_all? I searched for "ST-V" and didn't find anything???

[burnt matrix]

arrg you're rightafdkl;asfjasdlfjk

[celest lake]

Please, Saturn Titan Video is my father. Call me Dreamcast

[warped saddle]

MORE LIKE STD AMIRITE

[clear condor]

Attack on Saturn Titan Video

[warped saddle]

doesn't look like it

[celest lake]

I AVOIDED THAT JOKE ON PURPOSE

[warped saddle]

I'm more dedicated to humor than you are

[burnt matrix]

Mr. Saturn Titan Video: "I would like one Waku Waku Shinkansen, please."

[warped saddle]

I need to buy one of those

not to add support to the core, just to have it to ride when I want

[celest lake]

as a treat

[mortal mist]

I once made a test build here , but the new bob did not work very well

[hallow fossil]

Oh, that is a shame

[burnt matrix]

This was a good point, I added it as a very short comment here - #1046941029296779344 message

Because I ran out of text space on that post since it has so much info.

[celest lake]

was it the final version of the new bob? I can't remember

[warped saddle]

that's odd considering it is just line doubling

(with a proper offset)

[celest lake]

It is in the latest PSX2CPU if folks want to look at it

[warped saddle]

also an example of a game where it doesn't work would help too

[dense sundial]

Oh sweet! Crusader No Freeze!

[ripe valley]

It was a strange function with a needed correct date and time set up on the SMPC, which froze the level loading.

I will be less available for some more days, I left everything needed to srg320 in terms of testing and new discoveries on timings.

[celest lake]

Take care of yourself, duder

[glossy steppe]

I thought that update_all handels STV stuff in the arcade folder automatically?

[wise brook]

basically

but if you dual ram, you’ll have to manually copy that core over to the correct folder

[glossy steppe]

Catitude? Gatotude?

[burnt matrix]

lol Gatorade is pretty good

[dense sundial]

hmmmm

[sacred goblet]

What is it?

[dense sundial]

I wonder if the aspect correct thing is subjective matter

[dense sundial]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lawrencebrd/nsone

[floral saddle]

That option should probably be named something else, like pixel aspect rather than correct tbh

And yes it's very subjective, like the 8:7 pixel aspect on the snes being used for some assets but not others.

[wide glacier]

thanks for all your testing everyone. unfortunately, i still can't get shinobi to boot. i've tried many combinations of different game dumps, bios files, cartridges, region settings, and timing options, but it refuses to start

i'm quite baffled as no other game on the core has given me this kind of problem. i even tried the same shinobi rip on my real saturn, and it ran just fine via the saroo

[ancient surge]

Turn off the second controller.

[wide glacier]

that was one of the first things i did. still won't boot unfortunately

[wise brook]

VC2 booting for you?

i think it’s a certain type of SPMC bug

that’s the part of Saturn that coordinated controllers/peripherals

[ripe valley]

t tried on my whole MiSTer systems (single, dual, MiSTer PI & QMTech) with the last version from yesterday.
VC2 doesn't boot at all on all systems.
Shinobi-X - Shin Shinobi Den (Europe) works correctly.

Games are loaded from a USB3.0 flash drive, CHD formatted done myself last year.

[celest lake]

I can check shinobi x on mine. Latest unstable?

[ripe valley]

Yes, latest one.

[celest lake]

Dual or single ram matter?

[ripe valley]

Try on Single first.

[warped cliff]

Maybe some like all circles to be ovals 😄

I personally can't stand it

[dense sundial]

When you don't correct it, the Saturn logo on boot IS an egg!

[warped cliff]

Yeah that's what the Saturn does. But once it reaches the standard CRT it should squish back into a circle as they are 4:3. Without a CRT to do it for you, yeah you would have to correct it

[dense sundial]

What's funny is that it IS an egg on my CRT

[warped cliff]

at least that's how it is on N64 which often outputs 640x224

Wait, really?

[dense sundial]

Yeah, horizontally squished

I wish it didn't blew up so I could show

Although maybe its after I messed with the service menu

[warped cliff]

I find that really odd because in those days developers and testers only really had 4:3 screens to test on

It must have slipped their minds, as there were such issues on SNES games as well

[celest lake]

Ok, so maybe interesting findings.

First, my ESD enhanced de10 nano plays it fine. Will go through multiple attract loops.

However, if I load it up on the mister pi while it’s playing on the de10 (which is getting the cd image from the same (nas) source) I get a black screen after the sega logo. If I exit out of the core on the de10, the mister pi will boot it, but it will black screen after one attract loop.

Qmtech, which loads from a bus powered (spinning) portable hard drive also boots it fine. But crashes after an attract loop also.

The crash happens after the white sega logo appears

I can test on my other misters after I rock this baby

[warped saddle]

conclusion: your nas sucks

[celest lake]

How dare you

[ripe valley]

celeriyacon uploaded a new test today, and the CDBlock part needs some improvements.
StrikerX3 is also working on it right now on Ymir.
EDIT : srg320 will perform the tests too and modify the core with the new findings.

[celest lake]

Tried the game stored on an SD card - same outcome: hangs after the first attract loop

I was wrong, my DE10 also has issues.

I'll test the downstairs mistes now

[wise brook]

hopefully, this only adds to the size of the core on the arm side

[ripe valley]

I'll try it with my DE-10 Nano, as on all my other systems the game works fine and has been looping smoothly for 2 hours.

[ripe valley]

The core fails two tests by almost nothing, so the situation may be generally manageable.
Ymir still needs fixing, but will improve considerably eventually.

[celest lake]

stable works fine on a system where the unstable does not

I am running the unstable main

i think on everything

[ripe valley]

Shinobi Europe, with the Hi-Saturn BIOS, on Auto region ?
What is the status of the DRAM cart ?

[celest lake]

shinobi legends USA

USA bios

cartridge: none. region: auto

sorry, got 1g1red I guess. checking shinobi X which seems to be different (even though google said it was the same thing)

ooooo this has a full motion intro and everything

why wouldn't the 1g1r set include this version - this is dope

[ripe valley]

Europe version is "the best of both worlds".

FMVs and best soundtrack.

[celest lake]

and even better: it boots on my misters

[warped saddle]

see, this is why I don't use these 1g1r sets. at some point whoever made it has to throw out something that might turn out to actually be better

[celest lake]

yeah, I'm only using it on the hard drive

because it's 6tb and not 8 (I wanted 8, but they aren't "portable" then)

and that's where I looked first, so that's what i went with across the board

the european version is much better

[serene thunder]

Is the ninja still dorky white and red tho

[ripe valley]

Same ol' ninja.

[serene thunder]

I wish they had done a SOTN-style Shinobi for Saturn

[floral saddle]

Shinobi booted yesterday once I switched to the USA bios, tried again today and now it black screen after bios again, I give up lol

deleted the bios that update all downloads in the root of the saturn folder and now it works again. my games are in seperate usa and japan folders with seperate bios files within. as soon as updateall puts the bios in the root it stops working again.

[celest lake]

Strange things are afoot at the circle k

[ripe valley]

I can't replicate the issue at all, even with those settings.
Must be something with a BIOS on Update_All, or I don't know at all.

I used my MiSTer Pi, with a local copy of Shinobi Legions (USA), latest Main unstable and single core from 2025-08-15
USA 1.00 as cd_bios.rom (provided myself manually), USA region set, no DRAM set, Player 1 controller set only.

[celest lake]

Lemme look

So it works on the stable no problem - wouldn't that share settings with the unstable?

sent you pics of the config screen on the unstable. this is the single ram dated 20250815

[ripe valley]

Slavedriver Engine used by Lobotomy Software is now open-source.
https://github.com/Lobotomy-Software/SlaveDriver-Engine

[celest lake]

@floral saddle is pad 2 enabled in input settings for the core?

[floral saddle]

pad 2 is disabled.