Sega Saturn

[ancient surge]

A small price to pay for Gex.

[errant crown]

Gex in 30FPS

[visual grove]

Can you imagine paying that and playing Gex? I’d have nightmares every night from the regret

[errant crown]

Although, that was bizarrely enough the only version that allows you to actually save your game

Bringing the topic back to Saturn 🤓, the Saturn version of Gex is the best one imo. It just sucks you have to use passwords to save.

It’s really bizarre how many early games on Saturn and PS1 had password saves, considering there was literally no downside to adding an actual save mechanic. Since the consoles had dedicated saving functionality, and there was no excuse like wanting to cheap out and not add battery backup to your cartridge.

[pastel basalt]

The pce controller rules

[errant crown]

Who doesn’t love controllers with built-in turbo switches?

[pastel basalt]

It would be cool to have four buttons as an option

[burnt matrix]

I love controllers with 6 face buttons and two triggers!

[pastel basalt]

But for nes/pce it’s perfect

[pearl harbor]

I may or may not have bought a 3DO on launch day...👀

[pearl harbor]

N64 controller hype!

[errant crown]

Oh damn, you must’ve been loaded

Or just sworn off eating for a month

[pearl harbor]

Well, my parents bought it for me. I was spoiled rotten!

[errant crown]

Cool

[hardy lodge]

I did both as a kid. Not getting a 3do AND not having money for food. 😎

[errant crown]

Definitely a decent bit older than me, I was born a couple months after the 3DO launched

[pearl harbor]

I did genuinely love that console though. There's a shocking amount of great games on it.

[errant crown]

Yeah, there are a decent amount of games I wanna play on it

Such as Solar Eclipse

There’s a PS1 port, but it’s shit and runs too fast.

[hardy lodge]

3do seems genuinely interesting. Unlike cdi, which kinda seems like a memes console tbh.

[errant crown]

I enjoyed what I’ve played of Total Eclipse on the Saturn

[pearl harbor]

EA also made a ton of good games on it.

[errant crown]

This game is actually pretty damn good

[pearl harbor]

Not surprising considering Trip Hawkins was involved.

[errant crown]

Oh also, I know the 3DO has apparently the best version of Road Rash

I hear even the ports on more powerful consoles weren’t as good

[pearl harbor]

The Saturn version ran the best, but it was missing some effects like shading on the buildings.

The PS1 version is actually not bad. In fact, playing it on the PS1 turbo core on MiSTer is great since it's very close to the 3DO version and runs super well with the turbo mode enabled.

[errant crown]

@pearl harbor Do you have one of those consoles that’s 240p capable?

[pearl harbor]

I do not.

[errant crown]

Do you have a Goldstar?

Or if not, which one do you have?

[pearl harbor]

I sadly sold my 3DO back in the day. It was a launch Panasonic R•E•A•L 3DO!

I only owned it for about two years back then, and sold it for $500 at the time. Really wish I hadn't sold it, but I used that money for my N64.

[errant crown]

This is a great vid if you haven’t seen it yet https://youtu.be/gk8sm7v9tdw?si=aQy4kdI5TQVA1StI

[pearl harbor]

My 3DO was the console that introduced me to S-video back then. I was so shocked by how much better it looked, that I bought an S-video cable from Nintendo for my SNES right away.

[hardy lodge]

I believe the "s" stands for sexy.

[radiant karma]

The 8bitdo Pce controller can be used as a 4 button controller. select+down. Perfect for GBA games.

[hardy lodge]

I still prefer a snes controller for those. Too much muscle memory for those shoulder buttons.

[errant crown]

Isn’t that one missing the highest turbo function, though? The one that can make Bonk just float across all the levels.

[pastel basalt]

Wow I had no idea omg

Gotta test that asap

[radiant karma]

You can select 3 turbo speeds, not sure if the highest setting matches the one on the actual pce controller.

[errant crown]

I know the Hori one has incorrect turbo settings

Which is surpsising, since Hori always does a good job

[pastel basalt]

Yeah wow this is awesome

[radiant karma]

I don't get why 8bitdo does not outright document those extra modes in the user manual. Not even how to swap xinput dinput modes.

[burnt matrix]

The Sega Saturn is pretty cool

[pearl harbor]

Is this bizarro Robby?

[quick sorrel]

That only for the PCE controller or all 8bitdos?

[vestal night]

Radiant silvergun(jap) crashes on the third boss "Gallop", this happens on both the last and the penultimate core

[hardy lodge]

Single or dual ram?

[warped saddle]

doesn't crash for me on single ram, with or without fast timing

[radiant karma]

Only the pce

[ripe valley]

That requires some 'desktop archeology'.

[quick sorrel]

Was hoping but thx anyway

[ripe valley]

I've already seen that on the same topic last year for Radiant Silvergun.
That requires some 'desktop archaeology'.

[vestal night]

single

[ripe valley]

Could you retry with your system, with the Fast timings option ON.

[mortal mist]

it's a feature, the player has to put the puzzle together to keep playing 😉

[vestal night]

Just a second, I'll check now.

[ripe valley]

I don't remember the exact situation back then, I'm busy right now, but I could check it in the next hour.
We have a documentation about that situation somewhere in that Discord topic, but needs some researches later.

[vestal night]

No, same thing...

It's very strange, everything worked before...

[ripe valley]

Ok, thanks for the reply.

I will check later.

[floral saddle]

I also had a Radiant SIlvergun crash yesterday on the last dual ram unstable build , did it on the first level after going through a few stages on story mode then restarting. It also has a intermittent issue where the score and sword bar in the top left can flicker into the center of the screen before in the frames before the score result pops up and sometime between stages, not somehting that happens on every boot of the core though. Will try and get it recorded or a scren of it happening.

[ripe valley]

I can't reproduce it so far, too bad.

[ancient surge]

Maybe it's board or dump related?

[floral saddle]

I can't replicate the crash I had yesterday either but took a few videos and paused on the score glitch. Screenshot 157 is a the start of the game, as soon as your ship first goes on screen, if you see the score flicker into the incorrect position there you will see it happen at other times too. 158 is after the first red mini boss, just before the score result comes on screen. 159 is between the first and second stage. The odd thing is that after I had used up all my continues and restarted I didnt see it again, but other times it still happens.

Before I forget also had a white scrren crash on guardian heroes, you can give your profile a name, once i did so went to exit the options and back to the title screen and it crashed, couldnt replicate it though.

[ripe valley]

@floral saddle & @vestal night What board do you use ?
I'm trying to replicate your issues and check 2-3 things with the core code right now.

[vestal night]

I have a RetroCastle Saturn 2023 board.

[vestal night]

de-10

[floral saddle]

DE-10

[tawny forge]

Does retrocastle use common SDRAM modules or the chips are soldered to their daughter PCB?

Longer SDRAM traces from customs boards including the memory chips might cause issues

[celest lake]

they are modules

[tawny forge]

Oh, that’s good then

[celest lake]

When the resident evil 2 stuff was happening with mister pi, I was swapping ram around from my retrocastle build

[vestal night]

Everything is great with the Retrocastle assembly, it has excellent memory modules, a type-c connector, and the assembly is also compact, there have never been any problems with the hardware!

yes and before with radiant silvergun everything was fine, now both the latest and the penultimate core have problems, it's strange why this problem is only for me...

[tawny forge]

Core probably needs some more timings fine tune

[celest lake]

Does it crash on the stable core, @vestal night? Wondering if it’s a new regression or something old

(the one update all pulls from…june I think)

[ripe valley]

I'm trying to check something with the compilation of the core, maybe some of them don't like the compilation done with the bot.

I've already seen that on previous versions of the Saturn core, and the GBA core too.

[vestal night]

I haven't checked yet, but I've definitely passed the third boss before, most likely the stable core is working correctly

[celest lake]

ahh ok

[mortal mist]

I use my compilations with good timings

[vestal night]

I just launched the stable core from June, and I can already see the differences for the better, for example, the pixels do not twitch on the composite signal, on the unstable core there is a small flickering of pixels

[ripe valley]

I remember our discussions. @mortal mist

It's always useful.

I'm also using my own compilation, but I have only the DS build right now.

And it's also an interim build as I've changed and seen things with srg320 these last days.

I will try to rebuild the Single RAM version. Or do you have it on your side @mortal mist ?

[mortal mist]

Only dualsdram

[burnt matrix]

Is there a new build available?

[mortal mist]

Nope

We do not know what quality of cores are compiled by the bot

That's why we compile them, unfortunately I don't have a version for one sdram

[vestal night]

I checked radiant silvergun on the stable core from June, and everything works fine on it, after the third boss nothing freezes!

[ripe valley]

I need to be AFK right now and for 3-4 hours and don't have access to my compiling environment.
But I could propose to recompile the single SDRAM version of 20241116 during that time and upload it here later.

Just to be sure.

[trim nimbus]

Only the plebeians use the nightly build. True Saturn enjoyers hand assemble their own core 😉

[gloomy hedge]

I use the forbidden core

(I just plug my controllers into a real Saturn and put the mister on top for moral support)

[vestal night]

what can you do, that's life

[gloomy hedge]

(works every time)

(very accurate)

Legit tho - keep speaking up when the core doesn't work

It's the only way it'll get better

[vestal night]

I wonder if saroo works more stably than mister?

[gloomy hedge]

I mean isn't that a real Saturn basically

I have a fenrir

No saroo here

[trim nimbus]

Depends on the failure case. CDROM access may be worse than mister?

[gloomy hedge]

So far I've had no issues to note with the Fenrir except one game - die hard trilogy - which when I get the Europe version, does work.

But I assume that is at 50hz. Haven't tried the Japanese version

[vestal night]

fenrir is clear, but saroo, how stable is it compared to the core for mister

[gloomy hedge]

Probably depends on the game and setup

It's much more expensive 🫰🏾 to get a real Saturn and a retro tink

[trim nimbus]

Fenrir is a direct ode though. I am just spouting hearsay though- I’ve never used a saroo.

[gloomy hedge]

My buddy Desmaku I think has one

[vestal night]

With fenrir everything is clear, it is 100% compatible, regional problems are something else

[gloomy hedge]

But I find there's no point in comparing a core that's unfinished

So gotta wait until it's all done before any comparisons imo

[trim nimbus]

There are multiple models of Saturns. Pretty sure even the Saturn wasn’t 100% accurate to itself.

[vestal night]

I don't care about accuracy anymore, the main thing is that everything works without artifacts and freezes, and how accurate it is there is not important

[ripe valley]

The NTSC version of the game have an incorrect header from factory.
The game works literally by chance on the original hardware.

I needed to patch the header region for reading it correctly on some emus and on the current core.

[gloomy hedge]

Holy oh my god hahahah

[ripe valley]

I can't rely everytime with my SAROO, some games need patching and or an internal database.

[gloomy hedge]

So uh is that patch out there

So I don't have to play European games ewww

[ripe valley]

The Sega CD and Saturn games are so full of mastering errors and such.

When I was with the others at Redump, we had some mental breakdowns when we were dumping and improving the dumping tools back then.

So many exceptions inside the code.

[gloomy hedge]

Sounds fucking sketchy

Good civic work though

I applaud all you soldiers

I'm just a gamer

You guys are the heroes

[ripe valley]

SNATCHER gave me some nightmares.

I even thought one time that some of the errors were intentional as copy protection, but it's not.

[pastel basalt]

Which fw are you using? It works on my fenrir

I am using pseudo Saturn Kai loader though

[gloomy hedge]

I also have the pseudo

[pastel basalt]

Hmm

[gloomy hedge]

US version works?

[pastel basalt]

Yeah let me test real quick

[gloomy hedge]

I mean to be honest I don't really care much about that game so for now its not important

[pastel basalt]

One game that won’t work for me on fenrir is magical drop 3

[gloomy hedge]

I can play the PSX version 😌

Although to be fair it is ONE reason to play my stunner again on the Saturn

Can play the Europe version which I assume ...hey actually

Does that version become 60hz on a fenrir set to Japan?

Also my firmware was latest as of like I dunno 6 months ago or something

[gloomy hedge]

That sounds painful. I can test that sometime if you want me to

[pastel basalt]

I don’t think so

[gloomy hedge]

I dig some MD3

[gloomy hedge]

I didn't either

Also maybe your rom has a good header or something

[pastel basalt]

Yeah at least the Neo geo mister core is good!

[gloomy hedge]

It's beyond good yeah 😁👍🏾

[ripe valley]

I play it also everyday.

With the 8bitDo controller.

[pastel basalt]

Oh looool sorry misread what you wrote I thought you meant die hard arcade

I don’t think I’ve ever tried trilogy

[pastel basalt]

Magical Drop 3?

[ripe valley]

Neo Geo core.

[pastel basalt]

What’s your go-to game?

[ripe valley]

Puzzle Bobble 2

[pastel basalt]

And why is it Neo Turf Masters

[ripe valley]

Second for me.

Can't unthrone PB2 in my heart.

[pastel basalt]

I boot up Garou a lot

Even though I don’t really know its mechanics lol

[celest lake]

booted up my qmtech. going to embarrass myself trying to get to level 3 of radiant silvergun here

[pallid pier]

garou is my game

I practice on mister then cry when playing the pc port online

[pastel basalt]

I know the feeling haha

[ripe valley]

I'm trying some changes on the Quartus compiler.

[drowsy hull]

naughty

[gloomy hedge]

dont worry reading is not something I find people do a lot of around here 😛

jk of course haa

yeah die hard arcade is funny though for another reason

I have a japanese saturn

die hard arcade even on the english has japanese text for the QTEs

its like 50/50

[ripe valley]

Whistling No, I don't misread some comments here about beautiful NES labels, never.

[gloomy hedge]

I hade to make this for me

smh

[celest lake]

I was able to get to 3e on my single ram qmtech stack. Does it crash every time after 3c?

[vestal night]

Yes, after defeating the third boss, artifacts appear on the entire screen, after which it seems like the video signal disappears with a black screen, perhaps everything is fine with HDMI, but not with composite. On the previous core, I only see a screen with artifacts, the video signal does not disappear.

[pastel basalt]

Got direct video working!

Might need to try out that dual ram build

[vestal night]

We're talking about radiant silvergun, stuck after the third boss.

[pastel basalt]

Oh dang I thought you said “Sega rally championship championship edition” sorry

[gloomy hedge]

lmao

honestly

every saturn game should be sega rally championship championship edition

[burnt matrix]

the man speaks the truth! 🚙

[gloomy hedge]

@pastel basalt got you covered

[pearl harbor]

Love the look of the RetroCastle builds. But mine started having issues with blown fuses. Happened twice in 8 months, and I finally gave up on it and contacted Porkchop to replace the RetroCastle components with his stuff. Never had an issue since. The fact that RetroCastle included a spare fuse in the box told me that he knew it was a design flaw.

[pastel basalt]

The celica does have six weapons it’s true

[gloomy hedge]

5 wheels and 1 nut behind the last one

[pastel basalt]

Oh wait

The sword

[gloomy hedge]

Shit

[pastel basalt]

There are seven haha

[gloomy hedge]

About the same amount of foglights as the celica

Sounds legit

[ripe valley]

For people with issues on Guardian Heroes and/or Radiant Silvergun, could you please test this version I've done earlier.

I've changed some options on the compiler and changed a seed on the Fitter operation.

As I want to know if the issue is from a parameter when compiling the core or a problem with the SDRAM controller somewhere.

Thanks.

[celest lake]

@vestal night ^^

[vestal night]

Oh, that's cool, thank you very much! We'll test it.

[vestal night]

Radiant Silvergun works, thank you very much!

[ripe valley]

Cool! So the core is so much full that some DE10 Nano that didn't win at the silicon lottery could be affected.

[vestal night]

I was unlucky with my DE10 Nano board?

[ripe valley]

Possible, but not 100% sure.

Rearranging and using a different seed seems to fix the issue.

[ancient surge]

Does it break anything else?

[errant crown]

Wait, that’s a thing?

Terasic didn’t use the same chip for every device?

[ripe valley]

Yes, but there is a margin of error on all chips.

No produced chip is 100% clean, never. There is always at least a 'sector' but it could pass the QA.

[floral saddle]

@ripe valley Tried the test core, still issues in the same spots. At start the screen can sometimes stutter, like no vsync tearing, After the red small boss and end of stage 1 into 2 the score can glitch, looking like it shifts up a for a frame. Doesnt happen on every run, perhaps 50% of the time.

[ripe valley]

What vsync option do you have on your MiSTer.ini file ?

[hearty marten]

Same reason why some CPUs overclock better than others, kinda

[ripe valley]

I've just tested some games on my system this afternoon, for about an hour, 5 mins each.

But I didn't have an issue before.

[floral saddle]

2 low lag. there isn't a res switch at those points so shouldn't be the issue. Just did another run and now the glitches displayed the same as the unstable core again, no consistency!

[ripe valley]

No clue on my side.

I need to leave now for today.

[gusty quest]

I've been running a Retrocastle board for years with no issues and no blown fuses

I don't believe many other options actually have fuses

[drifting frigate]

My caps for fixing my SNAC adapters to work with the Justifier come tomorrow. I'm excited to blast some zombies... after possibly suffering multiple burns and pinged-off surface mount components.

[pine bobcat]

PB2X on Saturn! 🙂

[nova spear]

hey there, why when I load the .cue file I end up in the music menu and the game dont start? I'm using a game that has .cue and .img

[celest lake]

Img files don’t work, I don’t believe. Needs to be bin/cue or chd

[nova spear]

yeah ill get a chd one

[nova spear]

oh wow dude! I'm amazed right now lol this game is one of my foundest memories when I got a saturn

[celest lake]

your picture makes me nervous. get a case on that board :p

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6717521

[gloomy hedge]

[vestal night]

I already have my second board from RetroCastle, and I've never had any issues with the fuses! I'll go even further; I experimented a lot with SNAC, where something could really burn out since I mixed up the contacts while making the adapter, and even in that case, there were no problems! What Mario wrote sounds more like an advertisement for Porkshop, and I believe that having a replaceable fuse is a positive aspect since it can protect the board from damage, which is not the case with Porkshop and their intrusive advertising in this community!

[warped saddle]

lol what

[celest lake]

MARIO WORKS FOR BIG PORK

[hearty carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/paid-paid-your-dues-paid-dues-owed-owe-gif-18042223

[vestal night]

I have nothing against porkshop, it's just that this is not the first time I hear porkshop mentioned in response to a problem, you'd think there aren't any good sellers anymore. Sorry if this sounds rude, this is just my opinion, maybe I'm exaggerating. Thanks for understanding.

[hearty carbon]

I'm too full of turkey for this conversation. 😄

https://tenor.com/view/jack-burton-big-trouble-little-china-reasonable-guy-reasonable-gif-18085700

[celest lake]

I need to know where Ivory ranks The Thing, Escape from New York, and Big Trouble in Little China before I can really assess them

https://tenor.com/JdKm.gif

I will say, the power button on my retrocastle board does have a good click. I enjoy that

But, when it comes to science, my misteraddons stack boots AVP on the jaguar core. My retrocastle stack does not. I dunno if that's an advertisement for Pork or an indictment of how I spend my free time.

[pearl harbor]

Was definitely a bit rude on your end. All I did was mention how I solved the problem.

[vestal night]

Sorry man

[gusty quest]

Being UK based I have never tried any of Porky's stuff due to the shipping costs which are out of his control

[hardy lodge]

I'm based in Germany and I ordered his aluminum case and shock+, along with some other knickknacks since it's already crossing the ocean. It was always a very pleasant experience, high quality products and plainly the dude's just such a bro.

2/10 though, most German vendors for retro accessories always put some candy in the box, so there's that.

[gusty quest]

Nat at MiSTerFPGAUK is great, never had a issue

Though for my DE10 build I have been using Retrocastle boards as I like the smaller form factor and USB C power

[hardy lodge]

Power corrupts and USB C power corrupts USB C.

[ripe valley]

I'm waiting for the next core revision for the issues with Radiant Silvergun, I don't know when it will be ready and only srg320 will know it.

We will do a new test there and see with the users impacted at that time.

[ancient surge]

Just out of curiosity, I want to play with the overclocking scripts for the MiSTer to see if there is any impact to the SEGA Saturn core.

[stiff patrol]

Please dont report any core bugs on an overclocked Mister

[gusty quest]

Doesnt the overclock only affect the ARM side ?

[ancient surge]

Why would I do that in the first place?

[stiff patrol]

yes but it alters the timings

[stiff patrol]

Not saying you would but an overclocked Mister cant be used to report errors in a core since its an unstable config

[gloomy hedge]

damn did I miss the drama

pork rules and has never been anything bit ultra kind to me

even sent me a RAM stick to help test some cores

Reflex Adapt is extremely based

[pastel basalt]

Sega Drama Championship

Pork is really cool about sending stuff out to test

Those reflex ctrl boards are awesome

[gloomy hedge]

ymmv of course, like if you had a bad experience with a vendor or w/e

[pastel basalt]

I’ve got a mister pi in the mail so we’ll see how that one does

[celest lake]

I think part of the stuff with pork and misteraddons is that he is here, part of the community. It feels good to promote his stuff when he is here pouring back into the project. He is a human, not a storefront - you know? Not a judgement call on any other vendors - I just don't see any of them nearly as active as pork. Taki is starting to do more of that (and, obviously, opening a lower bar of entry is a big plus for the community).

I also think people are very sensitive to shills, especially here in end stage capitalism, so I get it.

[pastel basalt]

Yeah that all makes sense

[gusty quest]

I think all the established vendors have the regional niches which is good and the majority are run as side projects
With the open source nature of the project it's nice to see what other people come up with and release.

[hearty marten]

If we’re shilling - misterfpga.co.uk is awesome 🙂

But yeah, I guess all vendors are just small independent businesses

[burnt matrix]

Hey appreciate your perspective. From an outsider’s perspective you’re absolutely right. Everyone here loves to recommend MisterAddons even though there are plentiful options available elsewhere. Even in the US there’s LegacyPixels who does a great job too!

Others have explained it prior, but basically he’s one of the big pillars of the Mister community and he’s also the biggest vendor in the US, where a lot of us are based. People love recommending him because people love him since he’s part of our community.

I think if other vendors did the same you’d see the same adoration but they don’t. That’s frankly it; people love him because he’s one of us.

[hearty marten]

And the vendors do a really important job. Ain’t no way I’d have a MiSTer if I had to get some PCBs made and bust out a soldering iron

[gusty quest]

I have brought hardware in the past just to see what it has to offer and support the seller

[gusty quest]

I love a bit of DIY...

[vestal night]

Well, in fact, I really like the appearance of their cases for mister, especially the purple one

[hearty marten]

I can do wood and screws, solder and resistors aren’t for me

[burnt matrix]

I love the aluminum cases myself but I’m @unkempt kelp’s friend so I’m biased here.

[warped saddle]

another Robby AI response

[burnt matrix]

If I were to utilize artificial intelligence to respond to individuals, would you not presume that I would compose more formal sentences?

[gusty quest]

We also see established sellers supplying each other with specific parts

Like Nat buys Blister boards from Ricardo and DC to DC jumpers from Porky

[burnt matrix]

lol “porky”

[hearty marten]

His full name is Porkchop Hamton

[burnt matrix]

I haven’t bought from anyone besides Porkchop and Legacy Pixels because I’m in the US and that’s cheaper for me.

All I know is avoid Amazon and eBay. Only buy from @steel salmon on AliExpress.

[lofty spire]

only bought from misteraddons cause that's the primary storefront that i've been steered towards via all the mister stuff i googled before purchasing a de-10

haven't had a problem with anything

[hardy lodge]

That one? Yeah it's pretty af.

[lofty spire]

i got the purple one. looks great

[hearty marten]

Bet you have no problems getting internet signal with that massive satellite dish on the side of your MiSTer

[gusty quest]

Over the years I've used MiSTerFPGAUK, Ricardo, Antonio, Ironclad, Retrocastle, QMtech and some smaller Etsy sellers and only had good service from everyone

It's only shipping costs that have put me off buying from Add-ons over the years

[hardy lodge]

I do not. I also have no issue holding on to bt connections.

[vestal night]

Oh yeah, sexy

[celest lake]

The QMtech person who runs their Ali store is also great. I told them I had an I/o board without a home and they put the base board on sale for me

[nova spear]

Im waiting to restock the io board + the case for some time now

[celest lake]

Message them. I don’t think they intend to sell them separately any longer

That’s why they put the base board up for me

[burnt matrix]

Oh right I forgot them. People seem to be doing well with QmTech so maybe we start recommending them too

[celest lake]

I have a pork, retrocastle, taki, and qmtech stack, and I’d recommend all of them

[hardy lodge]

Almost sounds like your shilling for mister as a project now.

[lofty spire]

i can't believe the mister discord would shill the mister project

[drowsy hull]

robby would never shjll

not without receiving a free bag at least

[hardy lodge]

Free bag of cheetos

[drowsy hull]

that's cheap

[gloomy hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/bias-favoritism-unfair-thats-cheating-thats-picking-a-side-gif-17056468

[unkempt kelp]

I’ve been here for 5 years and am not going anywhere. Thanks to everyone for making this a fun small business to run!

If I’m not mistaken, I was the first non-admin on this server 😃

[gloomy hedge]

how dare you come commune with us the peasants

why dont you get in you lamborghini and return to your castle!

[unkempt kelp]

Haha Lamborghinis are cool and all, but if I had the money I’d get a first gen NSX

[gloomy hedge]

I hate you

(I almost bought one this past year but I would have actually physically would have had to bankrupt myself)

[warped saddle]

check out my lamborghini in my lamborghini garage

[gloomy hedge]

I want the flip up headlights but I want the later version that had those

btw if you want some funny lore

Shmup Junkie used to own an NSX

and actually used to race it at Laguna Seca and stuff

like just track days

[gloomy hedge]

said lamborghini

said garage

[green jacinth]

purp and green represent

[hardy lodge]

Did you also go for the neon genesis vibe? 😅

[median tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/gendo-neon-genesis-evangelion-anime-smirk-gif-14884772

[green jacinth]

ive spent my whole life trying to get in the fucking robot

[unkempt kelp]

Yeah, not worth it. The prices bottomed out 10-15 years ago when I had even less money haha.

[leaden dagger]

I have the purple one. It's great

[pallid pier]

Got a purple and pink one also

[burnt matrix]

Honestly, it’s good people call that out. Keeps us all honest. We all have biases and that’s ok, just as long as people are given that perspective.

[polar mountain]

I'm biased toward MiSTer Addons because his stuff is great.

[errant crown]

I like the aluminum case cuz it removes the need for a fan

Passive cooling is pretty… cool 😎

I do wanna get the rubber protective casing at some point

It’s too bad I didn’t notice it the last time I ordered from the site

[olive fern]

I kinda want the aluminum case.... But also wishing there was a mister pi variant...

That and no idea if it works nicely with ultimatemisters mt32pi lite variant

[hardy lodge]

Did you hold your ear to it after installing it to make sure how quiet it is?

[errant crown]

Pretty sure I did

Zero noise

And they did rigorous testing to make sure overheating never happens

[hardy lodge]

Yeah I think shig mentioned leaving his on for a month straight in the Australian summer.

[pearl harbor]

Then why is it so warm!?

[gloomy hedge]

I like my nude case with the fan, like to see and hear my cooling 😂

[untold lintel]

I like to stick the warm aluminum case on my cheek it feels nice

[green jacinth]

warm buns on a cold winter night

[hardy lodge]

So warm and cozy. Just wanna stay in bed and snuggle with my mister.

[floral saddle]

@ripe valley Seen this one? Left hand side of the name entry on Panzer Saga looks off with a vertical strip of pixels, the warping background seems to misalign where it hapoens too.

dual ram with latest unstable build.

[twin canyon]

best and really the only correct reply to such debacle

https://tenor.com/view/nights-reala-nights-into-dreams-journey-into-dreams-god-damn-gif-26229248

tomorrow the festivus begins

[visual grove]

Maybe Christmas should learn to save itself for once

[ember estuary]

Hello, where can you find the latest Saturn_DualSDRAM build ?

[mortal mist]

#unstable-nightlies message

[hearty marten]

Dammit!! You beat me

[ember estuary]

no access ?

[mortal mist]

check your roles

[ember estuary]

Thank you 👍

[mortal mist]

you can also download the cores directly here https://github.com/MiSTer-unstable-nightlies/Saturn_MiSTer/releases/tag/unstable-builds

[rich violet]

The bob deinterlacing hasn't been upstreamed yet, and I don't think there was a DualSDRAM build with that

[radiant karma]

I thought a PR was submitted with the Bob deinterlacing.

[rich violet]

Nope

[frail token]

Who's Bob

[hardy lodge]

Weaves brother

[hearty marten]

The owls are not what they seem

[trim nimbus]

RetroRGB. He loves talking about deinterlacing video.

[hardy lodge]

Since I'm using direct video I'm not affected by the core deinterlacing anyway, right? I noticed in psx and n64 games that it's using the rt4k motion adaptive deinterlacing instead of the mister one.

[dusty shale]

"Please, call me Motion Adaptive. Mr. Deinterlacing was my father."

[hardy lodge]

Alright bob. 🤣

[naive whale]

SaturnDay vid in 7 min... @pearl harbor its your fav day of the week!

[pearl harbor]

Dis gonna be good.

[naive whale]

and its out

[hearty marten]

It was not good

[pearl harbor]

Daaayum!

[hardy lodge]

It was great? Hopefully?

[twin canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/nights-nights-into-dreams-reala-yippee-gif-27520805

[polar mountain]

The takeaway from the video was that you need at least one stick of ram per jiggling breast.

For the meanwhile

[hearty marten]

Greatest!

I forgot how different the Saturn and PSX versions of DoA were

https://youtu.be/IO5towF_bhU

[visual grove]

I never played dead or alive on PS1 until mister, only the Saturn version. Had no idea they were radically different. Boob physics is incredibly realistic in both at least

[hardy lodge]

Thank god they nailed the essentials.

[muted cradle]

If one of the commenters is right, Tecmo was allowed to use and modify the VF2 source code for Model 2 and Saturn. That would explain, why it has the same timing problems of the other VF2 based games on MiSTer.

They started working on DoA 2 with sample code from Namco and Arika. And when the decision was made to port it to the PSX they took the early beta code and made that to DoA. Thus bearing some treats of the later DoA 2. But downgraded to fit the PSX limitations

[ancient surge]

Also later Virtua Fighter characters would appear as guest fighters in Dead or Alive 5. Apparently SEGA was involved with helping develop the Virtua Fighter characters too.

[visual grove]

Hmm, my understanding is VF2 source for saturn and model 2 arcade hardware are totally different

There isn’t any hardware overlap, the models and stages are wildly different, different resolution assets, not sure what would be shared

[ancient surge]

Not finding anything in particular about sharing source code.

The credits for the arcade and SEGA Saturn versions don't even mention SEGA at all. If they did get permission from SEGA to use the source code, it should of been mentioned somewhere.

So unless they stole or copied the code, I don't think SEGA had any involvement.

[visual grove]

Every aspect needed to be cut way back and adapted to the graphics library they were still building to support these games. Even if they could reuse some I doubt it would be plug and play

[ripe valley]

Sorry for the lack of news from this week and the wait for filling some of your issues so far, pretty busy week with my family.
Everything is fine now for me and I'm waiting for some feedback from srg320 for giving some news on the pending requests.
Thanks for your patience.

[ancient surge]

This misconception kind of reminds me of a similar false piece of trivia about how the first Guilty Gear was made by former SNK staff.

As far as I'm aware, there is no truth to that, as much of the staff were amateurs just starting out in the industry. In fact, a good chunk of them only worked on Guilty Gear The Missing Link and then quietly left the industry.

[celest lake]

Sunturnday?

[pearl harbor]

We doing this!? Saturnday!? @naive whale

[ripe valley]

I'm busy at the moment IRL, will check later tonight.
Thanks @mortal mist

[pearl harbor]

[naive whale]

Haha damn it

[pastel basalt]

Let’s go!!

[hearty marten]

Is it bad that I was most interested to see what the README changes were? 😅

[sacred goblet]

I'm interested about grandia texture flickering

[hearty marten]

No known issues! Quick, promote it to stable!

[muted cradle]

I wonder what might be fixed by the fixed RAM access in 16bit mode

That's a bit vague

[burnt matrix]

What was the useless video options

[muted cradle]

Scandoubler

Just commented out in the source code to prevent compilation

[hearty marten]

“Scandoubler Fx,None,HQ2x,CRT 25%,CRT 50%,CRT 75%;",
Border,No,Yes;",
Composite Blend,Off,On,Adaptive;"

Scandoubler, composite blend and some border option

[burnt matrix]

Thank you

[hearty marten]

Now all we need is Bob 🥺

[burnt matrix]

pins updated

[hearty marten]

Unless there are any major regressions, the core really must be closing in on perfect (within the limitations of the DE10)

[burnt matrix]

yup, just need some last minute bits and bobs

||also usb light gun support 🙏||

[willow pawn]

I could PR just the bob

But if scandoubler is useless than I'm not sure he would accept haha

[burnt matrix]

You only miss the shots you don’t take

[hearty marten]

I don’t understand these things - are they related?

[hearty marten]

But this

[hardy lodge]

Just use dv1 on a scaler like rt4k and y'all won't need bob.

[willow pawn]

If he removed extra video options, than why should I suggest an extra video option

That's what I mean

[hearty marten]

I think he removed the options that don’t do anything

[muted cradle]

Because Bob deinterlacing is not useless?

[willow pawn]

I think I'll change the aspect ratio option (16:9 seems useless, I will change it to "Streched") and PR that

Along with Bob

[cursive tree]

He removed adaptative scanlines?😱😭

[hearty marten]

Is that what they were? I’ve never used any of those options 😄

The issue which suggested removing options said: “For example the "Border" option does nothing and the "Composite Blend" does nothing either. Scandoubler could also be omitted similar to what the PS1 and N64 did to save a little bit on space, plus it doesn't work with 480i content anyway.”

[willow pawn]

Fair enough, so actually useless

20 minutes will have a build, someone that's on 16:10 or 21:9 test it (And test somehow I didn't break bob)

(Or super resolutions, basically everything that's not 16:9)

[ancient surge]

So the RTC is fixed?

[ripe valley]

Something I've talked to him through the issue log on the S32x core.
That line was missing for compiling the S32x core once more.

[ancient surge]

The RTC being fixed is actually convenient, since it's December, and that means any games affected by this time of year will work properly. Christmas NiGHTS being a notable example.

[hearty marten]

Awesome timing 🙂

[cursive tree]

Hope he includes adpatative scanlines again. 😔

[tawny forge]

Is grandia flickering improved?

[floral saddle]

adaptive scanline options are still in the video processing section

[rich violet]

It was adaptive borders that were removed

[warped saddle]

scandoubler is useless because the scandoubler doesnt' support 480i

oh, was scrolled up, see someone said that already

I once tried to get it to work but got drowned in a bunch of edge cases

[willow pawn]

Does this core work? I wanna get the go ahead before PRing

Both bob and Aspect ratio

[burnt matrix]

is it a dual or single sdram build?

[willow pawn]

Single SDRAM

[hearty marten]

Single SDRAM peasants rise up!

[tawny forge]

Wait, what is it working with single sdram now?

[hearty marten]

Everything bar Grandia, if you use the fast timings hack on the problematic fighting games, I think

(Nothing has changed)

Well Grandia works, but some people have flickering textures. The rest of us just use the superior PSX version

[rich violet]

The Bob test core is Single

[serene thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/ymnicha-monkey-boat-sad-sad-monkey-gif-24062019

Dual RAM Crew

[rich violet]

Bob is working perfectly for me 👌 Thanks!!

[willow pawn]

Alrightly, so now just waiting on the aspect ratio and will PR :3

[hardy lodge]

Y'all making bob work like he owes you money. Poor bob.

[bleak escarp]

So me a know nothing layman, do I owe it to myself to just upgrade to dual ram and be done with it

[stiff patrol]

at the moment SRG has said Dual ram will be better

but who knows in the long run

if you can use direct video and dont need Dual HDMI and CRT output at the same time then you have only your money to lose

[bleak escarp]

I mean I use direct video when I play on the CRT, past me at least had some foresight that dual ram might have to come into play in the far future

[stiff patrol]

well the new IO board allows for both dual and single ram

you take off the upper board to go digital

keep it to go analog

[warped saddle]

it's important to remember srg also says the core isn't accurate even with dual sdram. it's just....less inaccurate

[bleak escarp]

I also had gotten my MiSTer before madness consumed me into acquiring a Trinitron

[stiff patrol]

dual also will let you play the Jag core

but its your choice and your money

[bleak escarp]

Honestly that's ultimately my motivation, I keep a Saturn on me for what the core can't

Plus ram sticks aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of mister add-ons

[stiff patrol]

no they really arent

I have spent more on Densha de go controllers

[bleak escarp]

I got somewhat of a deal on a twin sticks probably the biggest mister/Saturn motivated purchases

Also keeping the Saturn for light gun games anyway

[stiff patrol]

well the core may well play light gun games

if you have CRT and Snac

[ripe valley]

Street Fighter Zero 3 works superb now, impressive. Most impressive.

https://tenor.com/view/impressive-darth-vader-gif-13593833

[stiff patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-vader-alter-the-deal-empire-strikes-back-star-wars-gif-15971205

[ripe valley]

I need @mortal mist at a later time for Dead or Alive stutters verification.

@cursive ravine I need a new test on the last version of the translation for Princess Crown, thanks.
@floral saddle I leave you retest if the issue is present or not on Radiant Silvergun.

I've updated the issue logs with everything I can, I don't have the rights for closing some old issues resolved since months.

[tawny forge]

da core is perfect now

[mortal mist]

There has been no change in this regard

still stutters when changing resolution with vsync=1 and 2

[inner kayak]

Even after reboot and loading a different game first?

[mortal mist]

it doesn't matter at all. The error appeared after making changes for interlace

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/288

[ripe valley]

Okay, thanks.

Just to be sure, I've asked you but I knew that was not going to change.

[mortal mist]

thanks for confirmation , closed https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/204

[warped saddle]

hmm, stutters when res change with vsync 1 and 2?

[mortal mist]

0 is ok

[warped saddle]

details in that issue? I'll look later

that's often something going on with main

[mortal mist]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/commit/69fa3c2ef3925de01d0a46e25ce6207f4009d9a0

the problem appeared after these changes

previously everything was ok

I verified this by creating everything on the sd card from scratch, it was enough to change from vsync 0 to 1 for the problem to start occurring

if someone wants to play a prettier Lara and girl without botox in VF2 then they can use this core

[pastel basalt]

What do you want to do today?

Same thing we do every Saturnday… test Battle Garegga screen modes for sprite regressions!

[burnt matrix]

lol beautiful, that was me and some snowmobile game on the n64 core. except battle garrega is waaaaaaaay better

[burnt matrix]

is this the dual ram version of kasher's changes?

[mortal mist]

nope

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/287 , https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/196

[burnt matrix]

oh nice, i see

[mortal mist]

refers to this

[willow pawn]

People on 16:9 can test too to see if there's no regression

From me changing the 16:9 option to streched

[warped saddle]

do you have debug=1 in your ini, kuba?

and/or vrr enabled

[mortal mist]

Debug is off and vrr is disabled

I have no problems with any other core when it comes to vsync=1

[drifting frigate]

I finally got the resistors. They were massively delayed, but I'm now shooting zombies in their house and virtuaizing cops and whatnot! Thanks for the news post @unkempt kelp

[burnt matrix]

Awesome!

[sudden tusk]

Shit ! I’m late to the new core party !

[frail token]

What's changed

[rich violet]

This #1046941029296779344 message

[lofty spire]

tried the newest Saturn core, Grandia's first in game cutscene doesn't have texture flickering anymore. i'm a happy camper now 🙂

[tawny forge]

Single ram? Fast mode?

[sacred goblet]

Single or dual?

[mortal mist]

dual single

Dural 🙂

[mortal mist]

has anyone found any new problems with the latest core ?

[quick sorrel]

Dueling cores

[rich violet]

What is the aspect ratio change? I didn't check that because I don't know what to look for. The default settings on my widescreen flat panel TV have always been fine.

[ripe valley]

Not at the moment, but I will do a session of gameplay/tests later today.
On my own and mostly enjoying what have been accomplished so far.

If I found something, I will report it here and on GH.

[ripe valley]

Thanks, I will use it.
But keeping also the official unstable one, if I see some issues. For comparison.

[mortal mist]

I recommend using only for Tomb Raider and VF2 🙂

Battle Garegga will surely be spoiled 😛

it's more for less patient people like me

[rich violet]

What did you change to make it?

[mortal mist]

But I like pretty Lara haha

[mortal mist]

I used the code without the changes that messed up TR and VF2, but this is only a temporary solution if anyone is bothered by these errors

[rich violet]

Was it the same thing that messed up both?

[mortal mist]

nope

the first change spoiled TR , the next VF2

I gave the exact dates in the submissions on github

[floral saddle]

RS and Saga have the same issues as the previous unstable. Also got a bunch of brown poxels flicking about after a few restarts on RS, not seen that one before.

[ripe valley]

The pixels on the extreme up ?

[floral saddle]

Yup, on the top row.

[ripe valley]

Analog out ?

I will fill a ticket later today.

[floral saddle]

hdmi

[ripe valley]

Thanks.

[ancient surge]

Are we sure it isn't junk data that is meant to be cropped out?

[thorn pagoda]

definitely should be checked, a lot of screen-edge stuff turns out to be on real hardware too

[ripe valley]

That's what I want to check also before opening the issue ticket.

I'm on another issue right now on the Mega Drive and some romhack.

[willow pawn]

I changed the aspect ratio settings to "Streched" instead of "16:9"

This would only affect users not on 16:9 tho (Should be)

[pastel basalt]

Oh interesting does your change break BG?

Battle Garegga looking great (actually feels like it’s performing better than usual) on the dual core

[ripe valley]

I've completed some games on the core between yesterday and today.
Will update the list.

Policenauts will be the first game classified as Perfect (minus the gun support on SNAC that I can't do).

I left a note on how to continue the game between discs.

And the two Strikers 1945 games now.

[floral saddle]

The awkward thing is that this is the first time I have seen it in approx 30 credits in story mode, never saw it on the older unstable. Doubt you will see it on real hw either, i never saw it when i owned it.

[burnt matrix]

Typically you won't see that stuff on real hardware because it's in the overscan area which isn't visible on a CRT.

[ripe valley]

I'm filling the two issues right now and asking for a comparison on OG HW.

But it will be tough like @burnt matrix just said.

[floral saddle]

I used it with a framemeister for quite a while too, not just crt's.

[ripe valley]

For PD Saga, I'm not quite sure as I've seen the same strange behavior on other games.

And it was hidden by the overscan, that wobble.

For RS, I'm asking to srg320 as I don't know how to status on it and I don't have enough technical knowledge at the moment.

[burnt matrix]

so I looked into it, can't verify this comment:

"the Framemeister has a weird quirk where its top pixel border is overly short and the bottom pixel border is overly tall"
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1261338&sid=14a625d61e32c423844ea92b52dd2a9d#p1261338

But that seems like it would make that specific issue hard to notice on a Framemeister?

Anyways yeah, it would be preferable if we can get someone to cross-check OG hardware, like @ripe valley said.

[ripe valley]

Okay, I've opened the issue to srg320 for RS.

And I will try to check the other problems with some other people on original hardware and some MiSTer systems (Dual and Single) later today or tomorrow.

[kind stump]

Is the timing for interlaced correct? or does it still need to be fixed? it seems a bit wobbly on analog

I dont have a real saturn for comparison

[visual grove]

I haven’t tried the latest but last check it was wrong compared to my real hardware

[wise brook]

i think it depends on the game too

Sonic jam is inverted.
VF2 looks gorgeous

[willow pawn]

Its absolutly incorrect and wrong, right now the two fields have different vsync

Just that some CRTs and Retrotinks tolorate it haha

Nobody tested the aspect ratio stuff?

[visual grove]

Yeah I think the last game I tried where it stood out more was Cotton Boomerang. The whole attract mode is interlaced and was fairly jittery compared to a real Saturn where it just looks clean and “hi res” normally

[kind stump]

I noticed the Hz changing even from 59.7 to 60 between changes in res in the core

Interesting

[willow pawn]

Very very interesting considering I didn't touch hsync and only slightly change when vsync happens

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/commit/69fa3c2ef3925de01d0a46e25ce6207f4009d9a0
Pointer to what I did, the code is a bit cleaner now through

[kind stump]

what are (REGS.TVMD.LSMD[1] && ODD) for ref?

[willow pawn]

REGS.TVMD.LSMD[1] is interlaced register

Odd is Odd field (I think), switch is before vsync

[kind stump]

if interlace and odd field?

Ah ok

[naive whale]

Sat vid done for 4 CST. Big Saturn energy lately video wise

[sudden tusk]

I’m gonna be the first one to comment!

Something rude!

[high bramble]

Another actual Super Sega update. 😏

[mortal mist]

I'm having problems with vsync
=1 after this change for interlacing maybe it is because of these value changes

[sudden tusk]

WWF IN YO HOUSE! Is still messed up

Game plays perfect but the sound is all kinds of wonky

[pearl harbor]

You'll have to get through me first!

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/fist-fight-film-ice-cube-its-on-gif-6046519

[pearl harbor]

Like Donkey Kong!

[hearty marten]

srg320 suggested that he’s not super familiar with analog signals, so any help anyone can offer here would likely be appreciated:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/288#issuecomment-2499961246

[warped saddle]

right at the beginning of those DOA fights main gets two rapid resolution change events, but they only differ by a very small amount of vertical timing

which triggers two rapid PLL/hdmi reconfig events with very slightly different pixel clocks

[hearty marten]

Does that mean it’s expected (albeit unwanted) behaviour?

Thanks for looking into it though @warped saddle

[warped saddle]

usually the big culprit with video mode changes and stuttering is too much output from main slowing it down, but that should only happen with debug=1 and/or vrr. I need to see how much it stalls without those and figure out if it matters

[willow pawn]

This is probably my commit if the core from october works haha

[mortal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/you-what-it-you-you-are-its-you-gif-18663985

But yes, the problem arose after these changes

[willow pawn]

Hopefully MikeS will fix my doings haha

[hearty marten]

It turns out that @willow pawn is an OLED user and did it just to sabotage the tubemen

[ancient surge]

Mike and Bob, the dynamic duo!

[willow pawn]

This problem in the github only happens on digital haha

[willow pawn]

Someone please test the aspect ratio stuff I wanna PR Bob

[ripe valley]

For the flickering on RS, I've seen it after many tries only with my phone camera.
My eyesight is too poor for seeing it directly.

I'm updating the issue ticket with some more info.

[small gust]

Using the latest single ram build and normal timings, I still have the flickering, both in intro and inside houses.
However, as espected. Using the latest dual-ram build, everything is fine.

[rich violet]

@ancient surge It looks like several of these could be closed: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/created_by/InfernoHabanero

[floral saddle]

thanks for adding that, im using a dual ram build btw

[ripe valley]

Oh sorry.

[floral saddle]

no problem!

[ripe valley]

Talking with many people on issues every day, I'm mixing sometimes.

Corrected.

And I've added a quick video.

For the brown pixels and Panzer Dragoon Saga, I'm waiting for some tests from colleagues on preservation circles.

[floral saddle]

Awesome, really appreciate the effort.

[rich violet]

It works for me! Looks stretched, which works nicely in 10-player Saturn Bomberman battles

[dusty shale]

Were any changes to interlacing made on this new core revision?

[pastel basalt]

If I’m using the Hi Saturn bios and have set the region option to auto, shouldn’t it be easy to load games from different regions? Had a few games shout at me about the region being incorrect for the game disc

[ripe valley]

Not officially, Kasher_CS was working on Bob desinterlacing these times, but the PR isn't ready and needs some checks - if I follow well the situation.

[ripe valley]

Do you have an example ?

[pastel basalt]

Sure thing, latest unstable single ram build, setting the region to auto, attempting to load house of the dead gives me the message. I’ll record it real quick

[rich violet]

Not all HiSaturn BIOSes are region free. Maybe yours isn't. They typically say RF in the filename if they are

[pastel basalt]

Gotcha

[rich violet]

There are RF versions of most of them

[pastel basalt]

Maybe I just haven’t noticed because I’ve only been playing jp region discs

[ripe valley]

I always use a RF patched version of that BIOS, so I've not tested completely the auto region setting.

Letting it be done by the patch on the BIOS.

[pastel basalt]

This bios and “auto” work on my dual ram build though without the error

I see it on the new Taki mister I’m testing

I can boot from Battle Garegga straight into Gex if I wanted, which I don’t lol

I’ll try to delete the config file on the new mister maybe

Deleted the config file and tried again here

I mean worst case I can switch it manually back and forth

[willow pawn]

Excellent, will send PR

[ancient surge]

Retail job has been an absolute nightmare on my end, so sorry if I'm slow with closing problems.

[willow pawn]

PR sent

PR Accepted

This was fast

[lofty spire]

single ram. sorry for taking so long to get back to folks

[burnt matrix]

Everyone testing is a goddamn hero

🫡

[lofty spire]

i booted up Grandia after running update all and a tear ran down my eye when i saw the opening didn't have any texture flickering. it was beautiful

it's definitely a weird thing that only effects certain set ups at this point. computers are weird man

[naive whale]

wait is this in update all now?

[hearty marten]

Nope

Last release was in June

[naive whale]

that's what I thought but I just read above

[hearty marten]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/tree/main/releases

[lofty spire]

i think the core i used was listed as being from September

[hearty marten]

Old build? Typo?

[lofty spire]

i assume it came from update all lol

let me double check

[hearty marten]

Not unless you have some weird config 😄

[naive whale]

someone check and lmk

[lofty spire]

yup, i was mistaken, from June 28th lmao

i think my mister is haunted

[hearty marten]

@gloomy hedge’s passed it on!

[lofty spire]

gonna give the latest unstable single ram build a whirl see what that does

[hearty marten]

Good luck!

[wet hull]

Did you send the PR for Streched?

[willow pawn]

Yes, Streched and Bob

[wet hull]

The conf str seems to be weird

[willow pawn]

I mispelled, heck

[wet hull]

    Aspect ratio,Original,Full Screen,[ARC1],[ARC2];",

It should be like the above

[willow pawn]

Yeah I didn't use that because that uses 2 bits and the core has its own 224p behevior (That probably needs to be removed lol)

[small gust]

But did you use to have the flickering issue to begin with?

[lofty spire]

yeah it used to but using the June 28th core seems to have caused it to not happen anymore

[small gust]

Did you swap sd-cards along the way?

[lofty spire]

nope

[small gust]

Strange, you are actually the first person then I've seen in here that has/had the issue and got the problem solved without changing sd-cards or getting a second ram stick.

[celest lake]

They were using the old stable core, not the latest unstable

They thought that update all would pull down the new core

I think the June core was before Flickergate started

[green swift]

If anyone hasn’t tagged @MikeS yet I will. He is analogous to analog video 🙂

Oh I can’t tag him hmm

[willow pawn]

He was taking a look earlier today that's why I mentioned

[green swift]

Ahh

[small gust]

The issue was intruduced in like march or april, the build he is using is from June. So if he used to have the issue that means something changed. That fixed it.

[celest lake]

oh interesting, nevermind then

[lofty spire]

i'm actually having a different issue with the newest unstable core. no matter what i do my controller won't work. i'll map my saturn buttons but i can't seem to start any games. i press start but nothing happens

[muted cradle]

Oh god of the northern winds we beg thee to send the knight @kind stump

[burnt matrix]

@willow pawn way to go dude, thanks for submitting that PR!!

[small gust]

Have you tried reseting the core settings?

[lofty spire]

i have not, i'll try that now

[small gust]

Also you might need the latest unstable main.

For recent unstable cores to work.

[mortal mist]

no need

[small gust]

Alright

Oh, we got Bob 30 minutes ago! Did not notice that!

[hearty marten]

Fire, walk with me!

That game you like is going to come back in style

[lofty spire]

that did it, thanks

seems that not turning my mister on for months must've done something wrt the flickering in grandia cause after a little while and swapping saturn cores, i got texture flickering again 😦 oh well, guess i need a new sd card

[small gust]

"I can tell you honey, you can play my MiSTer tonight! Rahh!

https://tenor.com/view/guns-n-roses-axel-rose-jungle-excitement-welcome-gif-5312305

Nevermind the song title in the gif, wrong song :).

[hearty marten]

Good song though!

[kindred sundial]

Oh man sounds like another big Saturn day! So interlaced is fixed over analog now?! Fingers crossed RTC gets added for some Xmas nights

[celest lake]

I believe they said rtc was working again

#1046941029296779344 message

[errant crown]

Damn, another early Christmas present from Srg

[mortal mist]

A new observation on my part, BOB holds steady at 60Hz , Wave shows 59.7 and jumps to 60. When using BOB I have no problem with vsync=1

[pearl harbor]

Put Bob through a test run|| || , and it's definitely the Bob we all know and love!

[cunning citrus]

Is there composite blend on the Saturn Core? Last time I heard the option is there but does nothing.

[pearl harbor]

I believe it was removed in the latest update?

Because it didn't do anything and freed up some space. Unless I'm miss-remembering the conversation from the other day.

[cunning citrus]

My Saturn console over composite is really something, its pseudo transparencies even flickers.

[hearty marten]

Nope. The option was also removed because it didn’t do anything

Oops. Didn’t scroll down enough. Sorry. @pearl harbor got it

[kind stump]

Its odd, it should be 262.5 lines per field but I think it jumps between 262 and 263 maybe

[burnt matrix]

Damn why are we all excited over this game?

[hearty marten]

Bob > Rob by

[celest lake]

https://tenor.com/w2io.gif

[errant crown]

There was a composite blend option, but I didn’t notice it doing anything

[willow pawn]

I think it's two offset 262 lines

[errant crown]

Dithering looked exactly the same either way

Genesis composite blend isn’t something I like to use anyway, since it makes the pixels look muddy

[visual grove]

If one could be taught to flex we could replace @burnt matrix

[celest lake]

ehh, no feet

[hearty marten]

Time to give bob a spin 😎

But first, update_all

[tawny forge]

What’s going on, folks?

Whoa! Bob has been dropped!

[burnt matrix]

[tawny forge]

I assume that with Grandia not flickering on single ram and now Bob, then core is perfect? 🤔

[willow pawn]

Bob the builder

[tawny forge]

Oh, we still need analog shoulders and stick support via USB right?

[kind stump]

I think parts in the section needs to be rewitten to account for the timing of interlaced video being 2x CE

then you can ensure the fields hit 262.5 lines

[hearty marten]

Grandia still flickers, I think

Also Lara Croft and Sarah in VF2 have visual problems

[willow pawn]

2x CE?

I think the problem I found was the hres was odd

[hearty marten]

But it's getting pretty close to perfect

[errant crown]

I’ve still seen reports about little issues that have been unresolved. But, definitely closer to perfect.

Didn’t someone have a major issue with Radiant Silvergun the other day?

Wonder if that’s fixed

[floral saddle]

nope

[errant crown]

What was the issue again?

[serene thunder]

Just keep in mind both Grandia and RS are serious system pushers

Like Conker, PD, etc on N64

Also seems like Jiggle Physics took Saturn to the Edge

[floral saddle]

Anyone notice the fps/scrolling seems choppy at the beginning of rounds in marvel super heroes vs street figher? Do a high jump and the background looks like its animating at half refesh when it scrolls, clears up as the round goes on. Can see it in the intro too.

and yep, fair to say rs still has a few bugs to be ironed out lol, just got this after completing the story mode

[rich violet]

I just got a freeze (File write error) at the end of stage 1 of Shienryu

Latest Dual RAM core. I've never played the game before, so I don't know if it's a regression

[ripe valley]

I've played through the game just 2 hours ago.

[celest lake]

might be an SD card issue?

[ripe valley]

Yep.

[rich violet]

It's possible

I'll try it again tomorrow, to see if I can reproduce

[burnt matrix]

Analog triggers is a general MiSTer thing that Sorg will need to figure out. The Saturn core and the couple of Outrun games would make use of them.

[rich violet]

I had autofire on (a feature I only just discovered, which made Cotton 2 a lot more fun)

[burnt matrix]

USB light-gun support would be nice

[kind stump]

yeah but a new line needs to start at 262.5 not 262 or 263

At least it should 🙂

[dusty shale]

I beg that this may be fixed soon. I want to play NiGHTS on MiSTer. It's my favourite game, and now's the time of year for Christmas NiGHTS.

[celest lake]

Yeah, just made it to stage 2 of Shienryu

[muted cradle]

Shienryu is quite nice. Much better than the geki-oh version of the PSX

Not a great classic but I like its "style"

[celest lake]

It kept trying to give me something other than the lightning gun

Friends, I only need the lightning gun

[burnt matrix]

Fortunately if you have a SNAX adapter you can do it now with an original 3D pad.

[dusty shale]

I have an original 3D pad, but I've never approached SNAC or SNAX.

[hearty marten]

Hmm.. I’m not sure the RTC is fixed/integrated (it seems to get the year, but that’s it). Based on the commit message, it just looks like you can set the date/time when starting the core, and it will remember it until the next time you reload the rbf. So it seems to no longer reset when loading a game

(So it’s kind of like the “origin”, which it would get from the RTC isn’t implemented)

But at the very least it means you can play Christmas nights with the Christmas theme 🙂

(You just need to manually set the date)

[errant crown]

Yeah, about the Analog triggers, there is a decent amount of racers that use analog gas and brake. Also, imo it’s the only tolerable way to play Baroque, because without the analog triggers, and especially the analog stick, it feels cumbersome to control.

[dusty shale]

https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister-snac-adapter-usb/

As weird as it sounds, the main thing putting me off SNAC/SNAX is the design of the level shifter board.

I don't know how to describe it, but that combined with a controller adapter on the end of it would compromise the otherwise compact design of the MiSTer triple stack for me.

Like, you'd have this chain of boards and adapters sticking out of the side of it, spoiling the look, and potentially not being stably connected due to the weight of the adapter on the end.
Disregard this statement. The level shifter pictured above comes with an extension cable to prevent strain.

[polar mountain]

That snac board is not used for saturn or psx though, right?

[hearty marten]

The level shifter I have is much smaller. Also you’d probably connect it with a short extension to prevent strain on the board

[dusty shale]

No idea. I assumed the level shifter was necessary for all SNAC setups.

[polar mountain]

It's used with adapters for consoles up to and including snes megadrive

The psx and saturn snac I have are standalone

[dusty shale]

Anyone know of any UK/EU sites that sell Saturn SNAC adapters?

(not Ultimate MiSTer, they're sold out)

[polar mountain]

I get my stuff from uk

It's called..

Oh yeah sorry ultimate mister

[dusty shale]

And you're certain Saturn SNAC adapters don't need any sort of level shifter?

[polar mountain]

Yeah

And like like arnrh was saying a short usb 3.0 cable extension

Which I think you can add at check out

[dusty shale]

I failed to read that the one I linked comes with an extension for free.

I overthought all of that for nothing.

[polar mountain]

Compromising the MiSTer neatness is unavoidable

You must accept and embrace it

https://tenor.com/view/voron-cable-management-gif-22392132

[hearty marten]

Nat at misterfpga.co.uk doesn’t sell them yet but maybe if you fire him a message, he might get them in at some point 🙂

[drifting frigate]

I looked through the channel and don't see this posted, so I dunno if it's widely known, but 240p Test Suite got ported to Saturn as part of a homebrew contest. Super useful for seeing the difference in bob and weave in the latest core. https://segaxtreme.net/threads/sega-saturn-29th-anniversary-game-competition.25411/post-185171

(If the link doesn't take you through, it's on page 2 of the forum post)

[sudden tusk]

Willy Wombat works .. and oh boy what a weird game .. I wonder if it was supposed
To be a aero the acrobat sequel or spin off.. yeah who knows

One of those games unique to the Saturn

[radiant karma]

Is this issue maybe related to one in die hard arcade? using vsync 2 every transition between cutscene and gameplay takes a second or two. Looks similar to what happens in Dead or alive at the start of each round. The PS1 core has a sync 480i for HDMI option that helps those switches between 240p and 480i. I remember before enabling that option I had the same issue when entering game menus in Chrono cross (menus are 480i, in game is 240p)

[peak narwhal]

I assume that the sort of "noise" or crawling effect on the grids of pixels behind the timer and fighter names on VF2 on my CRT are just artifacts of using Component video and not enough "blur" in the image?

[visual grove]

Probably the currently incorrect interlaced handling but hard to tell from the clip

[peak narwhal]

yeah its not finished

[visual grove]

Or at least exacerbated by it

[peak narwhal]

its a "high res" game and i remember those causing some dot crawl sometimes on CRTs

[visual grove]

I can check on a real Saturn via composite but I don’t think it’s too extreme. Probably depends on the crt though

[burnt matrix]

Game is made by the Wonder Boy developer - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westone_Bit_Entertainment

[quick sorrel]

Is the new bob video option only for CRTs? (I’m very unfamiliar with bob and weave etc options)

[pallid pier]

it's for hdmi output

[burnt matrix]

Tested with VF2 and it greatly improves the 3D graphic motion but the 2D life bar elements do jitter a little distractingly. Which is expected for bob deinterlacing.

[pearl harbor]

Just remove the life bars using the debug options in the core! Problem solved! ......

[quick sorrel]

So bob, weave, and plain are the filtering options. It’s just personal preference isn’t it?
Or is there something else to this?

[burnt matrix]

It’s personal preference but weave works better with 2D elements and bob works better with 3D.

[small gust]

Bob deinterlacing though can cause stuck pixels on some panel types if static elements are displayed for longer periods, am I right?

[burnt matrix]

Well I guess that’s not exactly true. More accurate to say that weave deinterlacing works better for static imagery and bob works better for motion.

[small gust]

Cause it flickers up and down really fast.

[burnt matrix]

I don’t know, haven’t heard of that myself.

[radiant karma]

It causes burn in on some IPS panels. Temporary though.

[burnt matrix]

Oh damn

[small gust]

Isn't there some kind of warning about bob in the psx core?, or am I thinking about something else. I have a vague recollection about reading a warning somewhat recently when playing around with deinterlacing. But it might have been on something else than the mister.

[quick sorrel]

So if you don’t see any particular difference or improvement, better to leave it off then?

And use some filters instead

[small gust]

Well it's only needed if the game is running in 480i

[quick sorrel]

Oh. That’s good to know

(Starts to look for a list of 480i games)

[small gust]

Not saturn games, but bloody roar or tekken 3 on the psx core is two games where the jagged image is very noticeable when playing the games without any deinterlacing on.

[quick sorrel]

I believe SotN’s map is another resolution switching point.

[slate bluff]

Grandia texture flickering is finally gone for me!!!!!! 🥳

[lofty spire]

hell yeah gamer

[small gust]

Sweet, something you did?, or did a new build fix it?

If I remember correctly yours was an edge case where you had the flicker despite using the dual ram build, a build that fixed it for others, right?

[slate bluff]

New dual RAM build fixed it for me.

[small gust]

Awesome!

Death to Grandia flickering!

[slate bluff]

I noticed the map screens are razer sharp now too. I am assuming that was the deinterlace feature?

[small gust]

Interlacing jitter is something you usually only see in motion. On static images, not so much.

To be fair, I haven't tested the bob feature yet. But I presume it works like in the psx core. With bob enabled, the deinterlaced image should jump slightly up and down, with each frame alternating. Which is very noticeable on static elements.

I think grandia might just be using saturns high res mode on map screens, as it does on the titlescreen.

[slate bluff]

Oh ok, so then I’m not sure what changed. I use a RT4K scaler. The map screen used to kind of flicker. Reminded me of the CRT days at low refresh rates. Now it is super sharp and stable. Maybe I’m just crazy though lol. Just glad texture flickering appears to be solved. 🤘🏼

[lofty spire]

truly Grandia texture flickering is caused by ghosts

[cursive ravine]

I tested real quick today. The line is still present in the fairy attack

[willow pawn]

Exactly, and it can't because the horizontal resolution is odd

Right now it starts at like 262.7 or something

[willow pawn]

That's what vsync_hstart controls

[rich violet]

[gusty quest]

It plays nicely with the 3D pad over SNAC but the game does have some issues still. One of the boss levels had some weird graphics glitches

[gusty quest]

There are a couple of versions of the shifter board and MisterFPGAUK is selling the smaller version now but hadn't updated the website

Here is the smaller one

He doesn't have any Saturn SNAC adaptors though

[gusty quest]

The stock design SNAC adaptor needs the shifter board
Ultimate mister sells a stand alone version with shifters onboard

[rich violet]

Is NiGHTS playable with analogue stick and no analogue triggers?

[errant crown]

Imo the best one to use is the Snax64. It has a long cable, so it gives you room to put it in a convenient spot.

[gusty quest]

Yeah it seems to be

[rich violet]

Okay, cool! What do the analogue triggers do?

[gusty quest]

Ultimate mister sells a similar SNAC shifter board using Bliss cables

[rich violet]

I wondered because of #1046941029296779344 message

[gusty quest]

Mmm I've played Nights a few times and not noticed much special about the triggers
In driving games like Sega Rally yes

[dusty shale]

Pressing L or R performs acrobatics (needed during those timed sequences when you fly through a blue/yellow ring and the music briefly changes).

Pressing L and R together acts as a brake.

[dusty shale]

That's good to know. Last night, I ordered MFUK's level shifter and Mega Drive SNAC adapter.

[rich violet]

But they don't need to be analogue for that?

[dusty shale]

They don't. However, the MiSTer currently doesn't recognise those inputs over USB anyway, at least not in my experience.

[gusty quest]

Have you tried the different controller types available in the menu ?

[dusty shale]

I've been using the 3D Pad controller type for NiGHTS, since that controller's designed for it.

Is there a workaround that I don't know about?

[gusty quest]

I am sure ive had the triggers working but that might have been over BT

[dusty shale]

Sorry, I should clarify I also meant BT within 'USB' as a catchall - that is to say I was using a USB Bluetooth adapter.

I'll try NiGHTS again today to see if I missed something.

[ancient surge]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/issues/823

This issue has been talked about for at least a year, and nothing has come of it.

[errant crown]

Really cool how Sega was way ahead of the game with analog triggers

[gusty quest]

If anyone needs a Sega Saturn SNAC case here is one, simple design. At the PC so remember to zip it up

looks like this when printed

[polar mountain]

Does this one work with lightguns?

[ripe valley]

I can't seem to be able to reproduce the eventual issue on backgrounds on Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter mentioned yesterday.

[gusty quest]

It's just the stock open source design. I haven't got a gun to test it sorry
3D pad works great though

[ripe valley]

For Panzer Dragoon Saga, on the name select screen, the pixels on the left really seem to be correct against OG consoles and also some real hardware captures from peoples' streams after some checks.

For Radiant Silvergun, I'm waiting for some captures and videos, as my eyesight and equipment are not the best on that situation, and I can't take any definitive conclusion so far.

[dusty shale]

Fantastic. I was just thinking about designing a 3D printed case for MFUK's level shifter one it arrives.

[gusty quest]

Sweet

[dusty shale]

Is your Saturn SNAC case designed for a board from a specific site?

[quick sorrel]

What's possibly wrong with RS? I was playing it just now and didn't notice anything in particular. Though with bob enabled, the title screen gets messed up.

[rich violet]

Some brown pixels at the top were mentioned: #1046941029296779344 message

Also the score flickering to the middle of the screen, there's a video on the issue: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/294

[ripe valley]

End of the year rush at work, I won't be available for the rest of today and whole tomorrow.
But I will take a look sometimes here during the nights.

[quick sorrel]

I just took a playthrough after reading the issue and I didn't have the flickering of the lifebar/swordbar. My setup: DE10, HDMI digital out, single RAM build, Saturn_unstable_20241202_195ef3.rbf

Previous build was Nov16 and had no issues either.

[ripe valley]

You need to launch multiple games before.

I can't detect it when just launching the game after a full reboot.

And it's so much quick that I've almost not seen it, I needed my camera and have done some frame-by-frame research.

[rich violet]

So maybe related to https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/285

[ripe valley]

That's why I need srg320 here.

(I'm off now)

[rich violet]

Thanks @ripe valley !

[gusty quest]

No I made them myself
If you wanted one for the price of postage just drop me DM I have a couple of spares

[dusty shale]

You made them yourself? That's impressive!

[gusty quest]

I like a bit of DIY

And the options to source one are limited especially at a decent price

[rich violet]

Oh, Princess Crown translation had another release a couple of days ago

[quick sorrel]

I loaded the lynx core, played a game, loaded megadrive core, played a game, loaded the Dec2 Saturn core, played a few games, then into RS, and yes, confirmed, saw the score/sword bar glitch.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah. new translator is kicking ass and delivering

[tall radish]

were they all outta gum?

[sudden tusk]

They made riot city! That game rules!

And a bunch of other cool shit ! You should try Willy wombat @burnt matrix it’s got real Bug vibes

[burnt matrix]

yeah I've been playing it off and on, it's pretty cool. Love that it's all voiced in English

[sudden tusk]

Definitely feels like the game was designed for the Saturn hardware from the ground up kinda like bug!

[floral saddle]

Do you not feel like the game is kinda choppy at round start, like frameskip? Feel the same with large characters on x-men vs sf too, sure the fps isn't right at times.

[pallid pier]

I'm not getting that choppy feel at round start. Just used my normal team then some big bodies.

[rich violet]

Single or Dual RAM?

[ancient surge]

I thought the RTC was fixed. It still keeps resetting to the default date every time I reboot the core.

Okay so is it partially fixed? Like swapping games doesn't reset the date, but exiting out of the core does?

[ivory kindle]

reminds me of my dreamcast every time I turn it on

[rich violet]

It would be good if it could get the date from Linux when the core starts up

Maybe worth a feature request if it's doable.

[hearty marten]

#1046941029296779344 message

[ancient surge]

[hearty marten]

I got the impression from something that FPGAzumSpass wrote once, that integrating RTC is non-trivial

Among many posts of his: #n64-dev message

it seems it requires a lot of resources. Since the Saturn core is already basically filling the DE10, this seems unlikely to be a priority

(But I may be wrong. There might be something particularly tricky for the N64)

[rich violet]

If it's truly getting the year, maybe it's not too much more to get the rest of the date

[mortal mist]

yes , I thought of that too 🙂

[dusty shale]

Just double checked this. Even with the 3D Pad triggers mapped to digital buttons, they still don't register.

[gusty quest]

Ah ok

I might have been mistaken then

[willow pawn]

Its not, it defaults to 2024

[rich violet]

I tried Shienryu again and this time it worked perfectly and I got to stage 2

[celest lake]

That game fucking rips. You (I) forget how many just bangers this system had

All in Japan, basically, but still

[rich violet]

Yeah, it's great 😄

[burnt matrix]

US Saturn > JP Saturn

[lofty spire]

she Segas my Saturn until i

[drifting crown]

You’ve said a lot of very wrong things we’ve let slide, but bro! You high?

[errant crown]

The US Saturn does have the better intro imo

But, the best intro is the Hi-Saturn

[burnt matrix]

Prove me wrong!!!11

[upper dust]

We don't need Parodius! We've got Corpse Killer!

[drifting crown]

1. Game prices

2. The white pad

3. All the shooters.

[visual grove]

#3 indeed: https://racketboy.com/retro/sega-saturn-shmups-2d-shooters

So many great shmups in one place

Not only that but so many with TATE

Wild it was so prevalent. I hope there were many tubes on their side throughout Japan in those halcyon days

[errant crown]

I vastly prefer the look of the JP Saturn and all its controllers

[ancient surge]

Puzzle games, STG titles, fighting games. SEGA Saturn definitely had the variety.

I think it's main weakness is a lack of 3D platformers. If you want that, you're better off with the PS1 or N64.

[lofty spire]

Saturn had Bug! 🙂

[gloomy hedge]

Too!

[errant crown]

Yeah. Really, the only notable 3D platformer besides the Bug games was Ninpen Manmaru

And the Bug games weren’t really even 3D platformers

Burning Rangers was sort of a platformer

[lofty spire]

Bug! was the first 3D Platformer so they basically just had to guess what they should do

[errant crown]

And Sonic Jam had a 3D platforming segment

[rich violet]

Someone's making a 3D platformer homebrew for the saturn

[upper dust]

Ninpen Manmaru is great

[rich violet]

Called cubecat, I think

VGE has a video of Cubecat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0JLgG2ScdA

And this video has the Cubecat engine running Peach's castle from Mario 64 as a tech demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgdcbncPouY

[dusty shale]

really Segas my Saturn
really NiGHTS my dreams
really burns my rangers
really fights my vipers
really pebbles my beach

[lofty spire]

really virtuals my hydlide

[rich violet]

It's available here: https://segaxtreme.net/resources/cubecat.288/ I'll try it out tomorrow! 😺