Sega Saturn

[strong hull]

I bought it for that reason. Motion adaptive deinterlacing looks amazing on N64 and Saturn cores

[errant crown]

Yeah, MA deinterlacing rocks. I have a RetroTink 4K, and the deinterlacing works wonders on MiSTer cores that support 480i, and my PS2.

That’s another thing, @radiant karma . Do you have a PS2? That would be another reason to get one, since 95% of the library is 480i only.

[radiant karma]

No PS2, so my option was the morph 4k as that is HDMI only.

[errant crown]

Gotcha

Yeah, if you have no need for analog inputs, that sounds like your best bet

[pine bobcat]

GBS-C does motion adaptive de-interlacing for PS2 as well
Good budget solution

[serene thunder]

Can the GBS support 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 output?
It's also weird in that it stretches 480p to fit 720p displays. I can't get 480p centered with borders

[pine bobcat]

I believe 1080p is the highest resolution supported.
Not sure about stretching issues with 720p, I generally use mine at 960p or 1080p

[slate bluff]

Here is a video showing Grandia flashing textures.

And here is the save file.

[celest lake]

I will check it out tomorrow 🙂

[willow pawn]

It's really simple, I can add that pretty quickly but of course it's an extra menu option

[thorn pagoda]

would be nice to have, not everyone wants a fancy external scaler 🙂

btw - does the saturn core support scandoubler ? i was thinking it could be removed to free up resources like rob does on psx/n64

[warped saddle]

it is wired in

at least it looks like it from the source

thing is it has to disable it for interlaced content

so it may be of dubious usefulness

[ancient surge]

It was carried over from the 32X core all the way back when development started.

Like I said, some stuff in the OSD are leftovers back when development started and code was carried over. If they were removed to save a few lines of code, nothing would be missed.

Considering how tight space is right now, it's possible srg will remove the debugging tools and useless features in order to save on space.

[severe whale]

fascinating with the progress on that Princess Crown

let's hope it gets finished soon so people can go on and focus on translating Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari :-)))))

that's the real stuff

[green swift]

Pixel art in that looks incredible.

[severe whale]

yeah its wicked that it havent been translated yet

[small gust]

Yep that is exactly how the issue looks for us single ram users, that has the issue.

Should be really interesting to see when I get my second ram module.

Maybe the issue isn't fully resolved at all still in the dual ram build either.

[gloomy hedge]

I was playing some Mechanical Violater Hakaider or whatever and it's fucking rad it's like a visual novel + lightgun game with tons of story... Definitely worth the translation imo!

It's a sequel to the movie iirc

[severe whale]

Cool. There are bunch of rad games that deserves translation

Blue Seed for instance

an early rpg that i've always wanted to experience

[gloomy hedge]

Yeah for sure 😁 at some point, it's like ok time to learn Japanese fuck it

[severe whale]

haha by now I should been fluent in japanese

my brother took japanese classes. I envy him

[burnt matrix]

Learn Japanese to order food in Japan, not to play weeb games!

[gloomy hedge]

Robby San is our teacher now

[severe whale]

:3)))

[visual grove]

As a Robby fearing member of the Church of Robby I can help guide you to a better weeb free life of clean living. It starts with ceremonial eating of Texas BBQ while donning the vestments (sallad hat)

[twin canyon]

matcha tea

[visual grove]

He ate salad for your sins

[burnt matrix]

Ok so for dual ram, does it matter what I have for the second slot?

[thorn pagoda]

like what size? no

[burnt matrix]

Yeah size or version

[thorn pagoda]

well, probably don't use 64mb, but nobody has those they're just weird, 32 is fine

[drowsy hull]

but he will always know that he could have more

[burnt matrix]

I have 2.2

[warped saddle]

if you have the one with the extra pins on it, that one wont' work

[drowsy hull]

without modding it

[warped saddle]

you seriously think I'm going to suggest robby mod is ram?

that's harder than getting emulators working on a pi

[drowsy hull]

he is the king of linux and pis, so that bit of work should be in the realm of his tinkerskill

[warped saddle]

the emperor has no clothes

[gloomy hedge]

its not the size that matters for the second sl.... oh wait ram

[gloomy hedge]

💀

[burnt matrix]

I AM THE KING OF PIS

S

[drowsy hull]

I believe in robby

even though there is a (not small) chance of him failing, but then everyone wins and will have a laugh

[burnt matrix]

How do I know if I have extra pins.

[warped saddle]

they are on the side of the sdram

[drowsy hull]

it has extra pins

more then the now standard

hence extra

[warped saddle]

like they're designed to go into that header on the side of the gpio pin block. three pins on the opposite side of the ram chip

Like that

also sorry, same side as ram. saw another picture online and it was wrong

[burnt matrix]

Thank you! Does this ram look ok?

[warped saddle]

no, it is clearly defective

[burnt matrix]

[minor shale]

Here's another save with easy repro of the flashing Grandia textures -- the GitHub issue was closed for some reason but the files are there.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/210#issuecomment-2308982564

[warped saddle]

the owner is probably also of inferior intelligence

[green swift]

Should've ran it with a drier sheet

yikes

[gloomy hedge]

Oh nice you got RGH ram

Put some cool Japan only games on it like Otomedius Gorgeous

[celest lake]

Is this specific to the english patch version? or does the flickering happen on the JP version as well

[minor shale]

It flickers for both, and the save works on both. I demonstrated in the videos using the JP version.

[celest lake]

ok, loading er up right meo

So on my misteraddons dual ram, I don't get flickering on the dual ram unstable. but I do get it on the single ram unstable

checking retrocastle now

Yeah, same on retrocastle (not sure if this is helpful)

but i can reproduce it on both

I foolishly didn't update the unstable on my misteraddons mister, so doing that now and testing again

same result. So yeah, not sure how this was helpful but, Flickering Friends: You are not alone

[minor shale]

[soft goblet]

I use the same kind (same text), got it off aliexpress for 7 bucks... seems to work perfectly fine both in Saturn DC and Jaguar cores

[dusty shale]

Testing Sonic R (Japan).

The North American version has been tested, but the Japanese version hasn't.

Haven't got footage yet (assuming it's consistently reproducible), but there's one part of Radical City (the second course) that seems to consistently lag on Saturn but not MiSTer, and another that seems to be the opposite.

Regal Ruin (the third course) appeared to lag in a few places on MiSTer (as opposed to virtually nowhere on Saturn), but I'll need to test specific areas again to be certain.

(especially the loop de loop, it lagged twice on MiSTer there)

Reactive Factory (the fourth course) lags repeatedly on Saturn.

MiSTer matches the first area I saw it lag (the silo containing the spring).

MiSTer also matches the locked room with the last Sonic token near the end of the lap.

The area where the spring route converges with the main road lags consistently on MiSTer (will double check Saturn).

[burnt matrix]

lol the same “ZAKK SUKKS” text?

[soft goblet]

Yup, exactly. They mass produce them now.

[gloomy hedge]

man it seems like zakk sukks r00ls

[dusty shale]

100% clear on both Saturn and MiSTer.

(it helps that this is a really short game)

Did another test of Regal Ruin on both systems, going through the loop on all three laps.

MiSTer lagged during the initial ascent of the loop on all three laps. Saturn didn't lag at all.

Granted, Saturn did lag once on the loop during the full playthrough.

I'll do it again.

It appears to be position-based on MiSTer.
If you approach the loop on the left, it probably won't lag.
If you approach it in the middle (which I did before now), it likely will lag.
If you approach it to the right, it will lag.

It seems this is due to the way the camera moves during the loop. While in the loop, the camera moves from behind the player to a sort of side view to show the player moving through the loop in full. There's more to render if the camera pans to the right, which may explain the slowdown.

[thorn pagoda]

has that game got an attract mode or replay viewer or anything? take out the random element

[dusty shale]

It does have an attract mode. I can film those if you'd like.

Either way, I'd also like to record examples of the Regal Ruin loop to demonstrate what I mean.

[thorn pagoda]

its usually much easier to debug something that doesn't require any controller input

[dusty shale]

Here's Knuckles going through the loop normally on Saturn.

Now going back and forth in the loop on Saturn.

Notice there is no visible slowdown.

The same scenario on MiSTer. You can see there's a specific height that is near-guaranteed to cause the MiSTer to lag where the Saturn does not.

(I apologise for my poor camera work. Holding the camera with one hand and playing the game with another is difficult.)

Knuckles approaching the loop towards the left on MiSTer. No lag.

[dusty shale]

Double checked, Saturn is the same.

So, I'd say Sonic R is near-perfect on MiSTer. It's just this one area that consistently lags.

@mortal mist Did any of this happen to you when you tested the North American version?

Testing Pebble Beach Golf Links: The Craig Stadler Challenge (Japan).

The pixelation/mosaic effect being missing in Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro is also affected here.

[errant crown]

Think you can get it inside mine?

[dusty shale]

"I'm Craig Stadler. It's a great day for golf, and there's no place like Pebble Beach."

[clear condor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXK_kcQ3RU

[dusty shale]

It's impossible to get to the green on the second shot if you're in the rough, he says. If only he knew.

[ripe valley]

That should interest srg320.

[upper dust]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dySnfnfHHtw

[dusty shale]

How do you feel about the Sonic R reproducible lag? I think it's worth creating an issue on GitHub for it, but I think it's important to know the criteria for what's considered an 'issue' first.

Similarly, at what point is a game considered 'perfect' on the spreadsheet? So far, no game is at perfect status.

[polar mountain]

Craig Stadler so cuddly lookin

CUDDLY!

[ancient surge]

If it's identical to original hardware from start to finish basically.

[dusty shale]

How would one certifiably determine that?

[ripe valley]

We cannot certify perfection.

My personal feeling about this, but I am not in a position to decide anything and I will not override other people's decisions.

I don't like to use a term "perfect" (but it was used by other teams when testing software emulators back in the day).
Perhaps only a term "playable" should be used + separate notes, if necessary (for clarification and/or to add context).

The compatibility list is not something absolute; only a quick indicator for end users.

[hearty marten]

Just please don’t put “completable”. We got bit by that (and still do) for the N64 core

“What do you mean only 40% of the library is completable? This core sucks”

[ripe valley]

I agree about that too.

[burnt matrix]

I just assume everything is perfect until proven otherwise.

[pearl harbor]

Thanks for confirming that I'm perfect.

[ripe valley]

That's also a valid possibility, just another philosophy on how to manage support and communication with the users.

[ripe valley]

Your question is complex.
This depends on several factors such as obvious reproductibility and the absence of randomness or external factors.
For now I think this should be tested once again with a Dual RAM system.

My personal appreciation; even with that, is it okay to report the issue now versus the actual core development phase?
For me, it should be mentioned when optimizations should be integrated.
We're one phase away from that.

In the same time, you're free to go and do what you feel necessary for the benefit of the project.

(I don't feel comfortable telling others what to do, being just a simple user who likes to help, with only some knowledge and the desire to move forward together)

[trim nimbus]

I feel that is selling your contributions short.

[mortal mist]

I agree 100% 🙂

[fallen terrace]

Hi guys, does the current unstable core load a default bios file if it's named correctly, if so what should that name be?

[kind bough]

Yep it does, boot.rom

[fallen terrace]

That's done the job, thank you.

[kind bough]

a region free one is recommended

[fallen terrace]

Yup, using the RF HiSaturn BIOS.

The cd_bios is only needed if a game doesn't work with the default bios yes?

[kind bough]

yeah, you can put cd_bios.rom into a folder and games in that folder will use it instead

[tawdry lion]

You should know this is how the nes zapper worked, but not the guncon or newer technologies. The guncon actually reads the cathode ray timing of the CRT display. It can actually see where it's pointing at the screen.

If you've played any guncon games you would see this. You can point at the screen and on some games a reticle continuously shows on the screen where you point, no trigger needed....

The zapper was a very very basic implementation. Light guns later improved heavily upon that dated tech

[hearty carbon]

I think the Justifier and the Virtua Guns were the last ones I owned.

[tawdry lion]

😛

[kind bough]

i remember being so impressed by the menacer due to the continual tracking, like a light pen

the games... not so much

[mortal mist]

At the stage where the core is, I did not pay attention to the smaller slowdowns, as you can see recently we are in the process of implementing some changes for the core (dualsdram version - move RAMH to the second sdram to ensure the original access times). I think the time for accurate frame counts is yet to come. It is worth noting and checking it at a later time. On the other hand, in my opinion, you also need to test the dualsdram version , if you want to make such comparisons ( after all, it is supposed to be / is more accurate). I have not yet had the opportunity to test Sonic R with latest ds core , but I will do so in the near future.

[errant crown]

Gotcha. Actually forgot that.

[dusty shale]

Thank you. Please let me know if dual RAM is any different.

[drowsy hull]

That explains so much

[burnt matrix]

[quick sorrel]

Came home, new Saturn core, nice 😄

[dusty shale]

There's a new core?

[mortal mist]

no

[wild maple]

is it worth getting the dual ram? thanks

[dusty shale]

Difficult to say right now. Certain games (mainly 3D fighters) perform best on dual RAM at present.

[wild maple]

I don't understand if in the future this Saturn core will be able to be 100% accurate with a de10 nano?

[mortal mist]

No , not on de10 nano

Maybe on other fpga hardware in the future

[visual grove]

With dual though maybe there’s a chance? Seems early to call it since srg is a wizard

But it’ll never be 100% I suppose 100% is a tough number

Like you’ll never have dual lightguns no matter how much wizardry occurs

[mortal mist]

I belive him

[visual grove]

Ah the dang ddr mem

[mortal mist]

Yeah

[wild maple]

thanks for the answers then I think I'll stick to the single RAM also having an original Saturn 🙂

[visual grove]

We really need a custom board with memory in mind

I know the Terasic boards are ideal because reliable long running manufacturing capacity but they’ll never have a design that’s perfect for this niche hobby case

Because that would be silly

But it’s easy to say and hard to do

Look at Replay2 & MARS

They were releasing last winter and here we are

Well replay2 was spring and mars pushed back to spring then summer then got quiet

[dusty shale]

I'm amazed the Saturn core is as good as it is right now.

[visual grove]

Yeah it’s super impressive

N64 & Saturn really use everything possible and show how talented the devs are

[celest lake]

I wonder if, like the n64 core, it still the best place to play saturn (outside original hardware)

[drowsy hull]

Well it lacks features

It is equivalent'ish to hardware, but even then I think right now hardware + ode variants are superior except for video output quality

[visual grove]

I haven’t used a Saturn emulator in a while (years) but the last time I did it sucked compared to the core

[celest lake]

well sure, but I'm saying, is the core more accurate than software emulation

[visual grove]

Maybe they are much better now

[ancient surge]

Yes technically.

[celest lake]

I seem to remember the saturn being hard to emulate because of the wacky chips in there

[celest lake]

That's pretty impressive

[thorn pagoda]

the way saturn is it basically can't have hdmi mods so for video quality reasons the core may always be preferrable

[visual grove]

Saturn is too important to me to pack up the real hardware anyway, but having a very accurate more convenient to use core is great

[burnt matrix]

I’ve never taken my Saturn out of the closet

[mortal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/segata-sanshiro-nod-yes-gif-5612081

[celest lake]

https://tenor.com/O2Sk.gif

[quick sorrel]

Somehow missed the last one and was still highlighted 😅

[solemn grove]

they are in fact much better now, though how that breaks down point-by-point vs MiSTer is not something i have done a careful comparison of

[burnt matrix]

Mednefen rocks! 👍

[solemn grove]

yeah, Mednafen Saturn is the current polestar i think

[amber lichen]

So is dual ram setup better for the Saturn core?

[celest lake]

yeah, marginally for now.

[amber lichen]

Anyone tried mixing ram? I had a v2.5 or something that didn’t run Saturn core well so I got a v3.0 now

[radiant karma]

I did, one V2.9 in the main slot and one v2.5 as secondary. No issues at least with Saturn.

[celest lake]

yeah, shouldn’t matter

that bug was fixed almost immediately by SRG

[amber lichen]

Cool thx. I was afraid I’d have to get a matching pair

[analog totem]

I had the same setup as @radiant karma and had no issues. I now have a 2.9 primary and a batch 1 Taki Ram™ as secondary and that’s been working as well

well, actually, I don’t know if I’ve actually used the dual sdram build since I switched to the Taki stick as secondary…I’ll try it later, but I assume/hope it’ll work

[soft goblet]

I got a taki 128 MB as primary and an 8$ aliexpress 32 MB secondary and it works fine

[dusty shale]

I've ordered a second RAM module.

[gusty quest]

I think the bigger issue is a replacement FPGA that is affordable, has good supply and is a large enough leap in resources. I cant see Agilex ever fitting that bill tbh

[random shard]

hey guys

is the dualsram build on the unstable channel the latest?

or is it still the one kuba shared?

[celest lake]

Not sure when kuba shared their build, but the latest unstable is 9 days old (from the 6th).

I wonder if Saturnday is in our future

[mortal mist]

This is latest #unstable-nightlies message

[random shard]

awesome thank you

[sacred goblet]

Does someone know the state of be able to store track indexes in chd file ? There was some comment on the github issues but i don't know exactly how to interpret them :
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/issues/10308

[warped saddle]

there is no state, you can't

[celest lake]

It affects like 4 saturn games and 2 mega drive games?

I think

[warped saddle]

it's more than 4 saturn games, closer to 40

maybe 30 unique games if you ignore regions etc

[celest lake]

Ahh, I was literally just trying to look that up

[warped saddle]

the way to interpret that mame issue is that when mame parses a cue file it now stores the track indexes in an internal data structure. one driver uses it. chd does not

they are not open to having the chdman utility use them, instead they want it all to be stored as subchannel data and have anything that needs to pull them manually out of subchannel data

except of course for that one driver

[celest lake]

I didn’t realize it was so many saturn games. Assume PSX and PCECD are affected too? I asked about it in the FPGA discord and only got a list of the megacd games

Links - The Challenge of Golf (USA) (RE)
Links - The Challenge of Golf (USA)
Mahou no Shoujo - Silky Lip (Japan)
Night Striker (Japan, Korea)
Prize Fighter (Europe) (Disc 2)
Surgical Strike (Japan)

[warped saddle]

I'm not even sure the megacd core is index aware even for bin/cue

[celest lake]

oh right - I hadn’t thought of that

[warped saddle]

and I'm not sure there are any psx/pcecd games that even use them

(and neither is aware of them on mister anyways)

0 psx cue files have them, just checked

[sacred goblet]

Thanks for all this informations !

[tawny forge]

Wait, so there are some Saturn games that don’t work as chd with the core?

[rich violet]

Yep: #1046941029296779344 message

[mortal mist]

it's not that they don't work at all , but expect all sorts of problems

[dusty shale]

@mortal mist When you tested Last Bronx (NA) on the June core revision, was it on single or dual RAM?

[mortal mist]

dual

[dusty shale]

Noted. I'll be testing the Japanese version on single RAM soon.

Also, there's one game not listed in the NA section.

Cyber Troopers Virtual-On Net Link Edition.

I have no idea what differences it has from the standard retail version (other than Net Link support).

Testing Last Bronx (JP disc 1) now.

Even just watching the attract mode, it's visibly sluggish.

No surprises here.

Last Bronx thankfully has a 'Watch Mode', so I can just watch the Saturn and MiSTer play themselves, even if the fights aren't identical.

At a glance, Last Bronx is mostly fine, but yes, it occasionally slows down for a moment during certain interactions.

Trying arcade mode myself, the slowdown is near-constant. Almost every attack causes the frame rate to plummet.

It's 'playable' in the sense that you could beat it this way, but I wouldn't consider it 'viable' at present on single RAM.

Now testing the Japan-only second disc. It's an interactive tutorial of sorts, I think.

Same issue, though.

Testing Cyber Troopers Virtual-On (Japanese).

I'd heard this game performs a lot better in recent core revisions, and it shows.

If there is any slowdown, it is minimal.

(single RAM)

[sudden tusk]

I TS SATURNDAY!

AND I SMELL A TASTY NEW BUILD IN THE OVEN !

[mortal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/nope-gif-23756243

[ancient surge]

Maybe I should ask srg if he plans on cleaning up the OSD features to save a little bit of space. The FPGA is getting stuffed right now, so any way to save a few lines of code will help.

[mortal mist]

Better to ask on psx channel 🙂

[river wing]

Oh my, sorry!! 😄

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/sucka-rick-and-morty-jerry-morty-aint-no-game-sucka-gif-7945771

[dusty shale]

Tested Grandia: Digital Museum (Japanese), again, since I wasn't satisfied with the last test.

I began to record every instance I could find where the MiSTer (single RAM) lagged, but Saturn didn't.

I have several more examples recorded, but I wanted to highlight this one in particular. When the player reaches that bottle (?) behind the pillar, certain polygons start flickering white on MiSTer. I've never seen that happen elsewhere.

[mortal mist]

Perhaps timings issue

[dusty shale]

Even the pause menu scrolling animation is slower on MiSTer. I'll post videos of that shortly.

It's true that the game is also rather laggy on Saturn, but I hope this proves that there is an issue here.

[mortal mist]

It is nothing new that in this game there are slowdowns on the Mister

[drowsy hull]

now where is that dual ram control

[dusty shale]

Is Grandia (the main game) like this?

[mortal mist]

Check the same place when you get the second sdram

[dusty shale]

Digital Museum is a separate product.

[mortal mist]

The same engine

There are more slowdowns than on the console, in the main game, so I don't expect anything different here.

[dusty shale]

With this, I've exhausted both my and my friend's physical Saturn collection.

[mortal mist]

Dualsdram

Single

[dusty shale]

Thank you.

[mortal mist]

And no flickering on dual

As you can see, even in the menus there is a difference between single and dual

[pearl harbor]

I can now begin my dual ram testing! I have joined the elite.

[ripe valley]

I'm here to save you all. That was a joke, obviously.

New core today.

I have spoken.

[pearl harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/kuiil-have-spoken-mandalorian-star-wars-gif-15566834

[warped saddle]

(option will be overused)

[ripe valley]

Always.

[dusty shale]

LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOO!

[pearl harbor]

Interesting single ram option there.

[ripe valley]

Happy Saturnday everyone.

[pearl harbor]

Saturnday on a Saturday is always the best combo.

No rest for @naive whale on his days off.

[naive whale]

🧐😳

[ripe valley]

NO rest for YOU!

[celest lake]

What is the SMPC thing?

And why wouldn’t I want to overuse it

[ripe valley]

Testing time later today for me, busy right now.
You can try them too|| (with all your might) ||.

Don't forget, don't overuse it!

[ripe valley]

Maybe a typo, copy/paste from the other commit.

[celest lake]

Ahh, so the fix is real. The notes are not.

[soft goblet]

I overused the option and my MiSTer melted.

[cursive tree]

Is the SFA 3 intro sound issue get fixed?

[ripe valley]

Only one way to know it.

[celest lake]

I don’t have a sfa3 image, just zero 3. Was there a us version of zero/alpha 3?

[ancient surge]

The SEGA Saturn port was Japan only, though we did get the Dreamcast port outside of Japan.

[celest lake]

I believe it’s still busted

I don’t catch it as much in the intro as I do in the scoreboard scene

[hearty marten]

Oh, awesome! Options to overuse!

Time to figure out recommended settings for the fighting games that struggle on a single SDRAM build

[river wing]

Been playing what seems to be DOA fullspeed on single-RAM for a while now and everything seems fine.
What does out hero SRG320 mean "don't overuse the option"? It's ON or OFF, use or not use, how can we overuse? 😄

[thick oriole]

I'm guessing that potentially it could break other games, but helps with ones that experience slowdown? Dunno.

[warped saddle]

yeah, I assume he means "only use this where it helps, don't leave it on for everything"

[river wing]

Well, next days are going to be VERY interesting in Saturn-land, that's for sure 😄

Testing rates are going to be skyhigh! And bugs will come out of their graves and walk the earth, I tell you!

[dusty shale]

We have mosaics!

[tawny forge]

Are we back to single ram being the king again? 🤣

[eternal mantle]

Last Bronx, Fighting Vipers and Dead or Alive runs like almost perfectly now on single ram, almost 1:1 with real hardware. Fighters Megamix is improved over the last build, but a bit slower than real hardware. Srg320 did a great jog on this build.

[celest lake]

C Y B E R M O R P H

[dusty shale]

Digital Dance Mix seems to run near flawlessly on single RAM with fast timings on.

I am blown away.

[tawny forge]

Core is perfect in single ram it seems! srg is a god among men!

[dusty shale]

I don't know how he did it.

[river wing]

hah! Flickering on the Panzer Dragoon intro text is gone, too! Wow! 😄

My fav game on the Saturn is now flawless on the core

[tawny forge]

Single ram?

[river wing]

Yes, sir! Single RAM working-class here, sir! 😄

[dusty shale]

The slowdown in this one loop in Sonic R has also been fixed with fast timings.

[frail token]

Can it damage sdram?

[dusty shale]

@ripe valley ?

[frail token]

Just wondering if that's why we shouldn't over use it

[mortal mist]

Because it can cause problems with other games - timings related

[mortal mist]

no , it can't

[pearl harbor]

Just as I got a dual ram build today!

But hey, at least I can play some Kasumi Ninja!

[alpine pagoda]

Thank you for making this happen by spending your money 😂 … maybe if enough other people follow suit we’ll get a single core jaguar too

[hearty marten]

Most likely it should be considered in the same way as the “unsafe” options in the PSX core. Safe for hardware, but the potential for games to have issues because you’re deliberately running things outside of the usual timings of original hardware

[frail token]

Right on

I'll be curious if it causes issues with games

[hearty marten]

Maybe there are some that are very timing sensitive where it might break things. Perhaps burning rangers? That pushes the hardware pretty hard

[mortal mist]

I wonder if Grandia works ok with these options 🙂

[celest lake]

Flickergate

[small gust]

based on a short test right now for me, the flickering inside buildings is actually gone with fast timing enabled.

with single ram

[hearty marten]

Now all we need is a Saturn single ram database to toggle the various options 😅

[mortal mist]

thanks for checking!

[small gust]

but, i had some stuttering and bad framepacing, and the buildings and ground layer still seemed out of sync

[celest lake]

if you guys start overusing the feature I will call the police

[small gust]

but the stutter might be because I had vsync to sync with display

checking with low lag right now

Okay upon further testing, the flicker is much reduced, however it still occurs.
But the desync between objects seems increased instead.
https://imgur.com/a/MHUZNrR

[dusty shale]

This instance of flickering in Grandia: Digital Museum is not fixed with fast timings.

[cunning citrus]

Do not overuse? *installs a heatsink on DDR3 Ram.

[slow osprey]

Am I correct that the new timing setting is applicable to single sdram only? Any issues fixed by that shouldn't be present with dual sdram?

[hearty marten]

That’s my understanding of the commit messages

Dual sdram is the most accurate, but single sdram has “hacks” to try to work around the issues

[hallow fossil]

Is this something that could crop up in the CDi core?

[pallid pier]

finally the Fighter's Megamix intro is fixed for me and doesn't randomly black screen

[inner kayak]

w00000

[warped saddle]

I just checked, out of the redump cue sheets 2 discs have an 'index 02'. neither are games. so 'yes' but probably not really

[hallow fossil]

Oh, thanks for checking, which two titles?

[warped saddle]

Philips CDI Format Test Disc 1 (EU)

Zeneca Pharmaceuticals Group - Experts in Anti-Infectives - Pathogen Pursuit - An Interactive Medical Program (USA)

which is my favorite game

[hallow fossil]

Hah, good to know. So if these are in CHD format they won't work properly? Good to know as there are talks of a CHD pack being created

[warped saddle]

someone would have to test

also is the core/main even aware of index

psx is not

and that's where the cdrom code was taken from

[hearty carbon]

is the save on map ram cartridge feature working for Dragon Force?

[cursive tree]

Sorry, forgot to mention that I am not home this weekend 😔

[mortal mist]

at the moment it is not possible to save the game on the cartridge

[hearty carbon]

I didn't think it was but searching for information on the Saturn core on MiSTer and ram cartridges is a whole lot of 'dual ram' to sift through 😄

[hearty marten]

Wait until triple ram catches on

[mortal mist]

I did not find any regressions in the new core

[ripe valley]

I'm beginning the tests right now and updating the issue log.

[dusty shale]

@ripe valley Is it worth me updating the spreadsheet to note instances of games with single RAM slowdown now being alleviated with fast timings?

(e.g. Sonic R)

[ripe valley]

You can.

Could you also retest with the Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 - Namie Amuro, if the hang is present or not anymore in Dance Mode ?

I want to update the issue log about that and I don't have the game installed on my current setup.

Thanks.

[dusty shale]

Briefly tested it yesterday. It lasts a bit longer with normal timing enabled before hanging. No hang at all with fast timing enabled.

I'll record it again.

(need to finish my current game of Bulk Slash first, though)

[ripe valley]

So it needs fast timings ?

[dusty shale]

Currently, yes.

I'll test again to confirm.

[ripe valley]

Okay, that's all I need.

l let you test all you want.

No pressure.

[ripe valley]

No change on Time Gal & Ninja Hayate.

No change on SFZ3 intro timing.

[dusty shale]

(photosensitivity warning)

Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro (single RAM, 20241116 core, normal timing).

[ancient surge]

Poor girl got stage fright.

[dusty shale]

It's ever so slightly better, but still not really functional.

The exception is the plain white background. She dances just fine on that one with no perceivable slowdown.

(Fast timing. Appears to run with occasional, very slight slowdown.)

@ripe valley

[visual grove]

lol what is this game?

Oh I see the title

Made by Yu Suzuki no less

[ripe valley]

Not much a game, more of a technical demo with almost all functions used.

[green swift]

Seems to be running much better with turbo RAM

[burnt matrix]

Suzuki’s Hang-On was so popular they named a motorcycle line after him!

[lavish laurel]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/280
Retested this, on latest dual_sdram, flickering text is all gone on my end.

[ancient surge]

Sorry I haven't close those, I've been too busy with other stuff.

[lavish laurel]

No worries, wasn’t sure if anyone retested.

[ancient surge]

I'm going to grab a few more games to try out, since I don't think anyone tested out some of the more obscure stuff.

[burnt matrix]

How is the single sdram build

With the new option

[hallow fossil]

Thanks for digging into this, have pointed Slamy this way regarding CDi. One other disc type, is the Kodak Photo CD redump set possibly impacted? That is one the CDi core is going to support as well

[hardy lodge]

So is grandia fixed with the new core? Also, why aren't we supposed to overuse the new function?

[pearl harbor]

The new function will murder you and your family.

[hardy lodge]

But... my mister is my family 😭

[pearl harbor]

It's committing seppuku.

[ripe valley]

I'd like a retest of "Pyon Pyon Kyaruru no Mahjong Biyori" on the introduction, with the FAST timings option ON and the Single RAM build.

I'm busy elsewhere with srg320 at the moment.

[pearl harbor]

[ripe valley]

Just verifying Sangokushi V, nothing fancy.
Okay, one more down on the issues list.

[lavish laurel]

Still saw the corruption with single ram build and fast timings. It flashes very quickly.

Will test dual ram next.

Didn't see it on dual ram.

[ripe valley]

Thank you!

[lavish laurel]

No problem!

[ripe valley]

This saves me a lot of time and helps me know what to focus on for future tests.

[severe whale]

new version of Princess Crown translation released

yey

[dusty shale]

Which one?

We've got a translation schism now.

[cursive ravine]

There’s another one out?

Looking at the notes from eadmaster some of the signs are translated now! Exciting

[severe whale]

yeah v. 0.6

[rich violet]

Also, why aren't we supposed to overuse the new function?
The "fast" timings can be seen as "incorrect" timings. Basically it's an option to reduce the accuracy in the core as a workaround for another issue (physical RAM latency).

And hacks like that can have side-effects, so I imagine he doesn't want to be inundated with bug reports about problems that may be caused by enabling the hack

[errant crown]

Damn, paul-met contributed to this

He’s done a lot of Saturn translations

[ancient surge]

The issues with the single RAM build is why I personally report problems using the dual RAM build. It's fundamentally more accurate, and I want to make sure any problems are not caused by either the RAM or the hacks.

[hardy lodge]

Thank you for clarification. The way the update is phrased it kinda sounds like the mister could overheat or something with prolonged use.

[mortal mist]

from srg320

he doesn't mention anything about burning de10 nano 😛

[ripe valley]

I'm closing the Namie Amuro game/tch demo last issue.
srg320 - Well, I can't do any better for a single sdram build. The option allows the game to run at all.

[ancient surge]

Oh so it doesn't cry out in anguish and bleed green blood?

[ripe valley]

I'm testing quickly Akumajou Dracula X, leaving Taromaru for an another day (maybe the SCU fixes will also [re]fix the game with the last core).

We shall have a retest of VF2, if th two-mouth monster is here or squashed out too.

[mortal mist]

No change

[mortal mist]

I reversed the changes for vdp1 - Sep 18, 2024 , Oct 8, 2024 , Tomb Raider looks ok and Virtua Fighter 2 too (TR broken Sep 18 , VF2 broken Oct 8 )

[dusty shale]

Fine with me. The fast timing mode takes DDM from 'functionally unplayable' to mostly fine, so I'll accept that. Please pass on my gratitude to srg.

[ripe valley]

Done.

[dusty shale]

Thank you.

It's interesting that this weird AM2 tech demo hardly anyone knows about served as a good stress test for the core.

It's just so cool to see so many issues on the GitHub page get closed with just one core revision.

[burnt matrix]

Princess Crown translation team is killing it! New update today - https://github.com/eadmaster/pcrown/releases/tag/v0.6

[dusty shale]

Happy to see regular progress.

[burnt matrix]

No drama, just progress. How things should be done.

[lofty spire]

pogress

[hearty marten]

Issue mentions Japan version - is it only that version with issues?

[burnt matrix]

@ripe valley thanks for being such a badass with the Saturn core and in general! A very kind hearted member here reached out and shared that he thought we should give you a new role and after checking with the mod team we completely agree!

Made you a Technomancer which shows your commitment and contributions are appreciated and we’re lucky to have you here with us!

#NotACult

[ripe valley]

I'm honored.
Thank you for your consideration, it really means something to me.
Let's continue the great work with everyone here.

[dusk sonnet]

what you did?

[visual grove]

Lots of testing and coordinating testing

And organizing results

[ancient surge]

Feel like everyone should deserve some respect for helping out in any way they can. Weeding out all these problems is how we even got to this point.

[pine bobcat]

Zet does a lot of work behind the scenes testing and assisting developers, helping improve software emulation and fpga cores

[burnt matrix]

give me $5

it's that easy!

wait I shouldn't make those jokes lol

[visual grove]

Robby doesn’t want to have to wash all those dishes at the sushi place to pay for the meal

[burnt matrix]

THEY ATE SO MUCH lol

[quick sorrel]

Oh so you were the family that had 12 stacks of plates to the ceiling :p

[quick sorrel]

Did you end up going to a ¥100 sushi place?

[burnt matrix]

In Japan? Yeah, blew anything I’ve had here in the States out of the water.

But just now I went to Kura Sushi and thanks to inflation it’s $3.45 USD per plate. So not only am I paying way more but it’s also way worse.

But hey, I got a crappy little Blue Pikmin keychain from their little prize machine from eating more than 15 plates lol

Sushi is Japanese and so is the Saturn, wow what a great console

[pearl harbor]

That you didn't mention the console's plethora of fat baby games makes you a fake fan!

[burnt matrix]

Guess which Saturn RPG this is!

⚔️

[pearl harbor]

Magic Knight Fat Baby-Earth!

[burnt matrix]

that was a trick question! It’s all of them.

[lofty spire]

huh, the magic knight rayearth girls really are fat babies in game huh

[burnt matrix]

All of the amazing 2D power and cool 3D graphics the Saturn can push and they give me a cartoon world with big headed children wielding swords

[pearl harbor]

Not to mention your favorite fighting game Virtua Fighter Kids!

[burnt matrix]

it won’t even launch with MGL for me, I was so angry I deleted that game!

[pearl harbor]

True dedication would have prevailed!

Ahem...anyway, congrats to Zet-sensei! Well deserved roll considering the work and dedication to testing.

[trim nimbus]

Ugh yeah, Kura has gotten so ridiculous lately, it’s like going to Babbages and coming home with a Jaguar instead of a Saturn

[quick sorrel]

Oh I didn’t know they’d opened places in the states
That sounds like you should go to a proper sushi place if that’s the case 😅

[mortal mist]

Ntsc-u version too (PAL version I have not checked , but I do not think there is any difference)

[hearty marten]

Thanks. Assumed as much but just wanted to check cos it’s seemed strange it would be in only one version

[ripe valley]

I agree with you.

Without the help of so many people, including you and @mortal mist, we would never have gotten to this stage of development and bug research/issue reporting on the core.
Thank you for what you have done too, and what we will do now.

[mortal mist]

our journey is not over yet 🙂

I too thank everyone for all the help, tests and super people here ❤️

[rich violet]

Detailed info from srg320 about the fast timings option, its purpose, and limitations: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/251#issuecomment-2482401756

[ancient surge]

All this because of a mahjong game.

[kind bough]

That explanation of why mahjong didnt work was significantly more entertaining than any I've heard of how mahjong does work. I'm calling it a win

[celest lake]

it's always dns mahjong

[ripe valley]

Taromaru works on the last version of the core.
That was an error with either the A-Bus/B-BUS/C-BUS on the SCU, the problem was partially fixed months ago.
But reappeared on recent versions (end of October and first part November).

[sudden tusk]

This is probably been reported a millions times but I just ran through fighting vipers and fighters mega mix in my single ram setup with turbo enabled and it was awesome !

Pretty much all slowdown is gone!

Except for very briefly when armor breaks on fighting vipers and megamix

[small gust]

For me, in case of the single ram build, it's a double edged sword. With faster timings enabled, much of the flickering is gone, but it can still happen here and there. However the desync between the floor and objects is much worse. So at least for me it reduces one thing and increases another.

But, my second sdram module is scheduled to arrive this week. Hopefully the dualram build will eliminate both issues.

[hardy lodge]

Thanks for checking. My second ram stick is also scheduled for this week. Let's hope that's that.

[burnt matrix]

Maybe slowdown happens there too on an original Saturn?

I am too lazy to disassemble my MiSTer setup and love the USB-C power cable too much to rejoin the dual ram gang.

[gloomy hedge]

just get another mister, easy

should be no problem for Dangit, "moneybags" Robby

[drowsy hull]

he is a lazy boy

[hearty marten]

Good news! You don’t have to!

[drowsy hull]

though he could use it as a teachable moment for the kids

[gloomy hedge]

lmao

[drowsy hull]

and let them reassemble everything

[gloomy hedge]

"and if any of you break it what are you?"

in unison

"grouunded..."

[hearty marten]

Grounded? He’d put them through that fuckin’ wall!

[hearty marten]

https://youtu.be/LxVm0n4x4Aw

[sudden tusk]

Definitely possible .. it’s kind of a busy effect .. but yeah this core drop is a nice upgrayyeedddd

[pearl harbor]

It's upgravy.

[burnt matrix]

Pins updated. Please let me know if I need to add something. Thank you.

[sudden tusk]

Add dese!

[errant crown]

Good thing I don’t play mahjong

Unless I’m required to in Yakuza

[burnt matrix]

IM BACK TO DUAL RAM

[celest lake]

Finally

[pearl harbor]

The dual ram elite! Dual ram mean dual the fun right!? ......right?

[gloomy hedge]

I heard it just gives characters two mouths

[hardy lodge]

Dang my second ram stick is still on it's way. I wanna laugh at the plebs with all the other chads!

[pearl harbor]

Soon brother Quirrin. Soon! 🙏

[willow pawn]

Bob deinterlacing option

[lone mural]

MiSTer without CRT option is not an option for me ...

[wise brook]

thank you as always, have you had a chance to look at 480i in Sonic jam? it’s funky.

maybe it had an unusual resolution compared to other games

the digital manuals for the games highlight it quite sharply, but it’s always present

[soft goblet]

Huge difference in Fighting Vipers with Bob

[dusty shale]

I need to check Bulk Slash with bob deinterlacing versus weave.

[sudden tusk]

Has anyone mentioned problems with PD Zwei on the latest core?

[mortal mist]

noooooooo

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/we-might-have-a-problem-body-guards-south-park-s16e3-faith-hilling-gif-23121300

Houston ?

[willow pawn]

Not yet, remind me in 7 hours or so

[ripe valley]

I've not retested the game with the last core so far.
What kind of problem ?

[dusty shale]

@ripe valley While you're here, I'd like to ask you a question.

Would testing a game on MiSTer against Satiator be considered inaccurate for comparison?

[mortal mist]

@sudden tusk please report! 😛

[ripe valley]

I'm using a SAROO or the original games on an original system, so no problem with a Satiator for me.

[dusty shale]

Thank you. That makes my job easier.

[ripe valley]

And I'm leaving for the rest of the day.
I will be back tomorrow.

[soft goblet]

Just completed episodes 5 and 6 of PD Zwei with no issue on the dual sdram core

[severe whale]

anyone here using Saroo? Planning to get one. Which games are known to not work on it?

[dusty shale]

Isn't it interesting that the Saturn has the widest variety of ODE options out of the main three 5th gen systems?

I love the Saturn.

[severe whale]

yes considoring how it was left out of any options for the longest time

[dusty shale]

You wouldn't expect the PlayStation to be the weird one with boards that require soldering or revision-specific parallel I/O carts.

[severe whale]

it's kind of the same when you look at the situation on PS2/GC/Xbox. PS2 which was the most popular of them is the one of the least modding options

Being the most popular doesn't always result in having the best mod community

[dusty shale]

I did the whole FMCB OPL hard drive setup for my PS2 a month or two ago and it was surprisingly DIY.

Many places for things to easily go wrong.

[thorn pagoda]

the main issue with PS2 is there is too much bad info out there

well not bad, just outdated

[ancient surge]

Pretty typical resolution.

[thorn pagoda]

wasn't there a load of fixes specifically for the digital manuals in that game? ages ago

[dusty shale]

Exactly. I found myself bouncing between so many old forum threads just to find a consistent setup process.

[severe whale]

yeah PS2 modding is all over the place

so much outdated stuff floating around

[thorn pagoda]

its the exact opposite of say, any nintendo console where you can probably go to consolename.hacks and find a perfect guide for absolute idiots that'll just sort everything out

[severe whale]

the easiest mod is for Vita. Just enter a website on the browser and voila finished lol

[thorn pagoda]

that said, with enough persistance you can have a very good experience on ps2 these days. the latest OPL fixes a lot of crap and memcardpro has made memory cards super simple etc

and we have hdmi mods at last

[ancient surge]

I don't know what I'm looking for with this supposed Sonic Jam issue. The Morph 4K interprets the signal with no issues, so I'm assuming it has to do with how a CRT outputs the scanlines?

[severe whale]

of all consoles I've modded I would say GC is the one with the best software. Swiss is awesome. Let's you change so many of the settings. Force different resolutions, select cheats and lots of other cool stuff

[thorn pagoda]

swiss is rad, xbmc4gamers is great, i think the xbox360 one is called aurora and is neat

[dusty shale]

Hopefully 360 gets a soft mod one day.

[thorn pagoda]

there's one for ps3 too i'm forgetting, it's just ok, kinda messy

[ancient surge]

Maybe someone should test Thunder Force V in particular over a CRT. That game has a title screen with an abnormally high resolution, so I'm curious if there is any weirdness there.

[severe whale]

yeah I just recently installed XBMC4Gamers. It's a gamechanger. A modern frontend that runs in 720p on an 2001 console is crazy

[thorn pagoda]

it can run 1080i too if you dont mind the slowdown 🙂

[severe whale]

I dont have the ram upgrade 😦

[thorn pagoda]

you don't need it, it'll just be slower is all

less smooth anyway

its questionable wether its really an upgrade over 720p anyway though, most of your source art isn't going to be that highres

[severe whale]

yeah i heard you need the ram upgrade for the synopsis videos to play at least

that's just a neat feature though

nothing game changing

Wii U modding is also weird. It's all split up between Aroma and Tiramisu

[dusty shale]

I can check it out on my PVM after work.

[thorn pagoda]

i keep meaning to mod my wiiU and then realizing all the games iwant to play are on switch anyway

also it seems to get easier to mod every time i look 😄

[severe whale]

yeah its very easy to mod nowadays

Wii U OS is a bit slow and bulky.

the OS part have always been nintendos weakest part

but Wii U got two major advantages. NUSplii and being able to play DS games 🙂

[thorn pagoda]

is the DS stuff in continuous development at all?

last i looked compatability seemed not ideal

[severe whale]

most of the "best" games all work.

there's a list that gets updated https://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/WiiU_VC_NDS_injection

[thorn pagoda]

that was worth a read just for the knowledge there are dpad hacks for the zelda DS games

[severe whale]

hehe yeah they are very helpful :-)))

[ancient surge]

Might need to double check to see if Shining Wisdom is rendering shadows right.

[radiant karma]

Thanks! I have been waiting ages for this. Finally the 480i fighting games can be played without those ugly combing artifacts.

[radiant karma]

Just noticed in your videos, fighting vipers raxels mouth is also incorrectly rendered. Seems to be the same problem with VF2. Anyone else can confirm?

[ancient surge]

For now I think we should prioritize digging deeper into each individual game. Several of these games are quite long, so there is always the possibility of there being bugs several hours into a game.

[sudden tusk]

The sound doesn’t work for me and it keeps booting me back to the bios screen after I press start at the tittle screen

[sudden tusk]

Whoops got to playing some PD saga time flew by and I fell asleep lol

[hearty marten]

Amazing! Are you planning on doing a PR?

[dusty shale]

The scanlines appear more visibly on MiSTer.

Can't really photograph it.

The MiSTer menu is also visibly shaky when 480i on Thunder Force V is displayed.

I bring up Bulk Slash for similar reasons.

This is a 480i image (naturally only half the lines are captured in a photograph).

On Saturn, it displays correctly.

On MiSTer, you can see the interlaced lines are misaligned.

(this is difficult to film, sorry)

@ancient surge TF5 has a similar issue.

[burnt matrix]

Fixed

[dusty shale]

Perfect.

Saturn.

MiSTer.

[ancient surge]

Ah, now I can better visualize what the problem is.

[dusty shale]

It's easier to demonstrate with Bulk Slash's illustrations.

[dusk sonnet]

who did this bob core version?

[dusty shale]

Also in the menu.

[ancient surge]

I'm guessing the way the lines are outputting are not synced like they should? Those combing artifacts hint at that.

[dusty shale]

Yes, there shouldn't be visible combing on static images on a CRT.

[burnt matrix]

@muted cradle

[dusty shale]

As evidenced by there not being any when played on real hardware.

[burnt matrix]

time for a blood bath

[muted cradle]

Test

[muted cradle]

Omg, I am back

[muted cradle]

Thanks Robby

[burnt matrix]

WE SALUTE THOSE WHO SACRIFICED THEMSELVES SO THAT OTHERS MAY POST

[dusty shale]

@burnt matrix What's happening?

[burnt matrix]

Posts have a hard limit of 1,000 people. No more can join.

So I gotta kick people if others want to post.

[dusty shale]

Ah, ok. Please don't kick me.

[pallid pier]

I still don’t understand why discord has this limit

[burnt matrix]

No, you're protected. There is a method to my madness.

[mortal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/law-police-judge-cop-dredd-gif-8606130

Robby is like

[burnt matrix]

It's basically:

1. Do I recognize the name?
2. Do you have a profile icon?

[muted cradle]

We are the battalion of the Saturn dwellers

[burnt matrix]

I'd kick myself if I could but I can't and Kitrinx probably wants me to stay for modding purposes.

[polar mountain]

3)have you wronged me in the past

[hearty marten]

[burnt matrix]

Anyways sorry for the disruption. @dusty shale you're doing great work identifying an issue. Thank you for your detailed posts.

[dusty shale]

Thank you for your kind words.

[polar mountain]

4. are you showing signs of...the infection...

[dusty shale]

Astra Superstars has the same combing issue.

[pallid pier]

this is all CRT?

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/other-mask-the-purge-purge-gif-5821075

[dusty shale]

The pictures I've posted are, yes.

[pallid pier]

just wanted to make sure I'm caught up

analog board or DV?

[dusty shale]

Analog board in my case.

[sudden tusk]

WWF IN YOUR HOUSE ! is still
Messed up

[ancient surge]

Now that I think about it, maybe the artifacts I see while using the Morph 4K might also be related to this.

I just figured those artifacts were a byproduct of outputting low resolution content over HDMI. I'll need to compare this once a fix is released.

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/vince-mc-mahon-reaction-sad-not-happy-wwe-gif-16143171

[sudden tusk]

Just the tinniest bit of jitter on the logo

[ancient surge]

I figured the higher resolution would mask some of that.

Still can see a few stair artifacts.

[dusty shale]

It's just slightly more noticeable than on real hardware.

[pastel basalt]

Amazing picture though

[sudden tusk]

My favorite Toshiba !

[radiant karma]

I did test DOA, VF2, fighting vipers, shienryu, So 480i games with serious combing artifacts, all good now. Hope a PR is coming soon.

[visual grove]

But it’s still messed up for CRT?

(per @dusty shale testing)

[visual grove]

Like this is clearly wrong ^

[dusty shale]

It is, yes.

[radiant karma]

So the Bob build somehow is affecting analog output?

[dusty shale]

I'm not using the bob build.

[thorn pagoda]

maybe its to do with the line widths used

interlacing requires a half width line right

[willow pawn]

Yes, I'm not using a half width line
As far as I know this problem appears only in higher resolution analog displays
I tried making some builds to fix that but they didn't seem to be right, you can try them @dusty shale

I could try seeing, maybe it's an off by one error or something

[lucid needle]

Don't know if this is helpful, but I tried Thunderforce V with the latest build. On my PVM the interlaced title screen looks very jittery. The text gets split in two. I can't capture it on camera though.

[pastel basalt]

I think that’s the same issue I was seeing in the menus for asuka 120% burning fest

[willow pawn]

Be ready for a build in 30 mins or so, anyone with problems on a PVM or 1084S

[dusty shale]

Fantastic. I'll be done with work in about half an hour.

[willow pawn]

I believe this isn't correct, I think I found my mistake

[dusty shale]

I apologise. What is an rbf file and how do I install it?

[willow pawn]

This is the Mister core file
You put it on your SD card in typically the _Console folder

[dusty shale]

Oh, that's the core! I see. Thank you.

[ancient surge]

Should we still test this or wait until the "fixed" version is compiled?

[willow pawn]

Depending if you want to waste 5 minutes or not

[ancient surge]

Nah I can wait. I have chores anyway.

[mortal mist]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/267

[lofty spire]

boom shakalaka

(idk if they say that in NBA Jam Extreme)

[celest lake]

Please don't tell me the basketball has two mouths

[lofty spire]

that would be extreme tbf

[ripe valley]

Closed the ticket as [NOT A BUG, IT'A FEATURE]

I hoped that one day, I could do it.
You can be testing and reporting issues, and being fun.

[mortal mist]

yes,as it turns out pizza is a feature not a bug 😄

[ancient surge]

Ah, another of those false flags.

I should maybe compile a list of things that are not emulation related glitches at some point.

[ripe valley]

He found another bug, by chance.

[dusty shale]

That is immensely funny.

[willow pawn]

I think this is correct

PVM users with interlace bugs, this is for you

[ripe valley]

I'm trying to test every other parameters possible so far.
But I can't reproduce it at the moment on my side.

I need more people testing Panzer Dragoon II Zwei (USA) too and see if they have an issue, for launching the game past the title screen ?

And if you have sounds and music on the first stage too.
Thanks.

[dusty shale]

Will test now. Thank you.

[willow pawn]

If you copy this as is you will likely see 2 saturn cores, this is the one without a date

Oh yeah if you didn't use Bob core this has bob so I guess you can verify with that

[ancient surge]

I also want to test this to see if this affects the Morph 4K in any way.

[willow pawn]

Scalers seemed to handle the incorrect signal fine

Which was a part of the confusion lol

[dusty shale]

@willow pawn No luck on Bulk Slash.

[mortal mist]

Works fine for me

Music , gfx

[soft goblet]

I had played 2 stages of PD Zwei earlier with no issues at all on the dual ram core

[dusty shale]

Astra Superstars doesn't interlace properly either.

[willow pawn]

You got the version that has the bob setting, just to confirm

[dusty shale]

The most recent one you posted. It lets you choose between weave and bob.

[ancient surge]

480i on my end looks significantly worse.

[dusty shale]

Burning Rangers looks slightly better, oddly enough.

On the main unstable build, there's more visible 'scanlines' despite it being 480i (menus).

[ancient surge]

https://streamable.com/wdhh6y

[willow pawn]

Very weird, lemme check resolutions

[ancient surge]

The shimmering isn't there when I use the normal builds.

Let me play with the settings a little bit to see if maybe it's something on my end.

[pastel basalt]

Love astra superstars

I can try to test some stuff on real hardware if anything needs testing

If it’s crt related I only have composite in tho

[ancient surge]

Nope, it's definately the core build being borked on my end. Not getting any better results.

[dusty shale]

Did you notice a vertical white stripe on the left edge of the 'Welcome to AstraWorld!" loading screen?

I noticed that on @willow pawn ' core, but not the main unstable core.

[ancient surge]

Yes, I did. Doesn't appear on the regular builds, so I'm assuming it's a bug.

[dusty shale]

The bit where the logo zooms in on the title screen doesn't animate properly on Kasher's build.

[willow pawn]

This is very strange

[ancient surge]

Playing around with the build more, there is now a single broken column on the right across every game.

It appears regardless of progressive or interlace resolutions.

[willow pawn]

Is bulk slash 640x480 or 704x480?

[ancient surge]

Wait, I think the VDP2 broke. The main menu in Puyo Puyo Sun is acting wonky.

https://streamable.com/w59hsp

At least Carbuncle is okay with it.

[dusty shale]

Neither. It's 640x448i.

Astra Superstars is also 640x448i.

[willow pawn]

Burning rangers is 704 I think

[dusty shale]

Thunder Force V is 704x480i.

[dusty shale]

It is.

[willow pawn]

Are 704px games looking better than 640 in general?

[dusty shale]

I'd say so.

640x448 games still look visibly jagged, arguably moreso on this version of the core.

[ancient surge]

https://streamable.com/g19m1p

[wise brook]

just checking in, what is this trying to fix?

[ancient surge]

Magical Drop III also broke

Twinkle Star Sprites is also affected.

[willow pawn]

Interlace signal is bad

[gloomy hedge]

someone emoji this

[willow pawn]

Good to know, don't change the resolution by 1px so it would be even hahaha

[ancient surge]

Yeah this core is bugged as hell. A common trend is sprite scrolling constantly shaking.

[dusty shale]

Testing Can Can Bunny Extra (Japanese).

[ancient surge]

Deroon Dero Dero (aka Tecmo Stackers) has the same bug.

[willow pawn]

Oopsies

[ancient surge]

Game Tengoku The Game Paradise has the bug.

I think you get the picture by now. 😅

[willow pawn]

I will not make the width even

Hahaha

[median tartan]

test

Ohh!! I'm in. here is what VF2 looks like on the latest revision posted about 45 mins ago

[willow pawn]

That's bob alright

[dusty shale]

It works. It's an untranslated visual novel. All sprites. Nothing exciting.

[median tartan]

thanks for working on it. I'm happy to capture / test anything you want to look at.

[wise brook]

ah tried it with Sonic Jam, no change my end

[ancient surge]

I wouldn't use this build anyway since it introduced new bugs.

[willow pawn]

Yeah

@median tartan If you just want Digital, there's one I posted 9 hours ago, it doesn't have any of the funkyness since it just adds Bob and nothing else

[thorn pagoda]

thanks for this! much prefer bob to weave in high motion games

[dusty shale]

Tested Can Can Bunny Premiere (Japanese).

Again, all sprites. Barely did anything (language barrier), but everything seemed to match.

[willow pawn]

I got the idea hahaha, I'm trying another idea

[dusty shale]

With that, 750 games have now been tested!

[willow pawn]

So many Japanese games

972 is an insane number

[thorn pagoda]

until you look at the PSX library size

[mortal mist]

do you hear the music stutter at the beginning of the fight ?

[thorn pagoda]

it almost sounds like the end of some previous track

[mortal mist]

with every new fight I get like this

when new music starts

[dusty shale]

Tested Can Can Bunny Premiere 2 disc 1 (Japanese).

[median tartan]

This is on the older core. It seems to have more jitteriness. What's fascinating is that the funkyness in these versions seems to be with the HP / time overlay instead of with the characters fighting. With the one currently published for update scripts, It's the characters that are funky.

[willow pawn]

These cores should behave identically to the nightly if you set the Deinterlace option to Weave

[median tartan]

Yes. That is the case.

[dusty shale]

Tested Can Can Bunny Premiere 2 disc 2 (Japanese).

Disc 1 is yet another VN.

Disc 2 is a supplemental calendar application where the characters talk to you once per day.

[dreamy ravine]

Is the new bob core dual ram?

[willow pawn]

No

[dreamy ravine]

Ok thanks!

[cursive tree]

Tested PD II Zwie for a few minutes and everything works just fine for me (intro, first stage, sound). Tested it using both single and double ram core

[naive whale]

one massive ass library

[ripe valley]

@sudden tusk Verify your game dump maybe, and the activated options on the core from your side.

@mortal mist I can't reproduce it on my Dual RAM system at the momenr (neither on VF2); I don't have my Single RAM system with me this week.

So maybe some timing issue between RAM modules ?

[thorn pagoda]

you can run the single-ram build on a dual-ram system and it just wont use the second stick

[ripe valley]

I'm not at home at the moment and cannot FTP on my MiSTer, but thanks.

[mortal mist]

same single and dual for me

[ripe valley]

Shoot...

[sudden tusk]

I been using the same image since the beginning of core development .. will double check in a min

I tried both normal and turbo same results ..

[ripe valley]

Okay, could you try with the previous core version ? Just for eliminating every other possibility.

If it remains the same, open an issue to srg320 and see what he thinks about it, because I'm clueless otherwise.

I can't help much on that matter for the rest of the day, sorry.

[mortal mist]

The last core on which it works well for me is 20241030

[sudden tusk]

Tried the previous core and yeah same issue persists

[ripe valley]

So redo your game dump from scratch. @sudden tusk That's no normal at all.

@mortal mist Okay, you've done well to open an issue to srg320.

[sudden tusk]

will do

Tested builds 24.06.28 , 24.11.06 and 24.11.16 all same results for PD ZWEI

😦

[ripe valley]

Even with a new fresh BIN/CUE dump ?

[willow pawn]

Unless I'm seeing any noticable regressions I'll be PRing this

[hearty marten]

That’s so much better!

[median tartan]

definitly. I'm glad I have a capture card that allows me to show instead of just tell.

[willow pawn]

I tried to count scanlines here, so hopefully it will affect some screens

[wise brook]

i’ll be free to test in 12 hours, currently at work.

thank you again for all you do

[wanton mist]

Hi everyone! I use a CRT monitor with the 240p custom res (mister.ini = video_mode=2048,40,442,200,240,3,10,8,85909) ..Works very well across the board... I have to set the aspect ratio on the cores from original to full screen, or it will be squished... Almost every core has this option, but not the sega saturn core. There is another way to play saturn games on this resolution with native scanlines? Thanks in advance.

[willow pawn]

Have you tried playing with the Aspect Ratio options?

[soft goblet]

Speaking of, what does the 320x244 (?) "Corrected" setting do? Like, which one is closer to original, on or off?

[wanton mist]

The aspect ratio show only 4:3 and 16:9, both do not fit the screen horizontally... And the corrected option does nothing at all..

[ancient surge]

It's a leftover from the 32X core.

[willow pawn]

I see
I think the 16:9 option should be changed to Fullscreen

[halcyon mica]

I'll try it on my super picky 1084 later

[wanton mist]

indeed... or add a new "full screen option"... maybe one day... thanks

[halcyon mica]

a newer core. Man, I cannot keep up here 😉

Sorry, but this is much worse than before

now the two fields are much more separated

interlaced images no longer even try to form a coherent image on the 1084. I use the letters in the darius intro for reference

[willow pawn]

Beforehand I realized the vsync was of variable length, which may have caused it, but now I went scanline counting

The only thing I imagine is that this is because the horizontal resolution is odd

[halcyon mica]

let me try other games with interlace

and also compare the latest unstable

latest unstable is also bad

[willow pawn]

Latest unstable should be unchanged from what it was

[halcyon mica]

I still have the "PWM" core which is older (oct. 15th). There, the interlace is also not perfect, but the image is much more stable

[ancient surge]

Let me try that new build to see if there are any issues.

[willow pawn]

The October 15 core does not have any interlace on analog

[halcyon mica]

yes, something is weird with the signal there as well. But the image is much more readable and the letters are not completely wrong.

Sadly there is no indicator on the 1084 what kind of signal is present

[halcyon mica]

I'll try to capture the problem on a video

[ancient surge]

Well the good news is that the bugs were fixed, and I'm not experiencing anything strange with the interlacing over the Morph. Not sure over CRT though.

[willow pawn]

It's weird how this signal passes on some monitors and adapters and completly fails on others

[halcyon mica]

It is very difficult to capture. I managed with the "slow motion" function, for a short time you can see both fields and how far they are separated

I'll try to capture the roman letters instead of the Japanese

[pearl harbor]

That new deinterlacing option is way better! Not perfect of course, but compared to the weave option, it's way more playable.

[halcyon mica]

HEADPHONE WARNING! NOISES!

first is slow motion capture

you can see the two fields being totally separated

[willow pawn]

2 pixel offset here

And on my monitor there's a 0 pixel offset...

Hmmm

[dusty shale]

I'll be able to test tomorrow.

[radiant karma]

Just a heads up for anyone using some IPS panels and the Bob deinterlacing option that you might get temporary burn in.

[pearl harbor]

I'm using an OLED. No temporary burn in for me! All permanent! 🔥

[celest lake]

Think about it this way: you won't need to enable the interlacing soon

it will be baked into your screen!

[ancient surge]

Decided to post a new issue about the core having useless/redundant features in the OSD to see what srg thinks.

The FPGA is getting pretty full, so any way to free up a few lines of code is important.

[tribal burrow]

Is PD Saga okay on the core atm? IIRC that's one that has issues on Pseudo Kai

[hearty marten]

This has been a highly anticipated feature for me. Makes VF2 much nicer to play

[burnt matrix]

I played quite a bit on earlier versions of the core and it was already great.

[tribal burrow]

nice thanks, I don:t remember VGE ever talking about it in his test videos just normal PD/Z

[tall radish]

I haven't tested since srg added turbo, but the cores before turbo worked just fine on single ram. You will get some occasional slowdown, but I no longer have real Saturn hardware, so I can't compare. Some of the slowdown may have occurred on the real hardware, but some drops did not feel right...

Either way, it's not game breaking at all

[trail halo]

I am getting weird behavior with Analog interlaced video on this core as well. The retrotink 5x does see interlaced video, but the deinterlace options don't change when cycling through them. The mister OSD is shaking up and down.

Not sure how helpful this will be but I tested how the signal information on the RT5X between the Saturn core (VF2), the n64 core (RE2), and the ps1 core (240p test):

The Sample/Lines and ADC clock read very differently between the cores. not sure if this points to something.

[pearl harbor]

Aw🥓 be aw-slack'n!

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-good-news-everyone-professor-farnsworth-great-news-gif-17213270

[radiant karma]

About the extra options anyone knows what the 320x224 aspect ratio normal vs corrected does?

[ancient surge]

If turned off, the internal scaler on the MiSTer will just display a 4:3 aspect ratio by default.

If turned on, the aspect ratio will be adjusted to match the 320x224 resolution, meaning the picture will be slightly wider than the typical 4:3.

The main purpose of this was for the Mega Drive, Mega CD, and 32X to display a more pixel accurate aspect ratio whenever 320x224 was detected. This might be preferable in some cases where sprites might be too squashed by an 4:3 aspect ratio, typical round objects like say Sonic rolled up in a ball or the moon in Castlevania Bloodlines.

[sudden tusk]

So I was able to get in game with PD Zwei but it’s kind of a convoluted method lol

[ancient surge]

The SEGA Saturn having this is because it's a leftover feature from the 32X core, all the way back from the beginning. It still works, but the SEGA Saturn has more variable resolutions, so the use case is more limited.

[sudden tusk]

First turn off SCSP DSP sound ( this gets rid of sound glitches ) in the debug menu than load game select options at tittle screen , play a track from the list than immediately exit and hit C or start and hopefully the game loads if not rinse and repeat lol

Once in game though the game performs flawlessly

[radiant karma]

Thanks, then uncorrected is ok by me.

[pastel basalt]

I saw that mouse supported was added? That rules

[green swift]

Sounds like it should be something easy to fix for SRG

[hearty marten]

So back in the day when we all had 4:3 CRTs, what happened? Did the picture get squashed or did extra stuff just go into the overscan? “Corrected” looks better to me, but I prefer the authentic experience even if it’s worse 😅

[mortal mist]

This is so strange , the first time I have heard of such a case

[mortal mist]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/269#issuecomment-2487846229 no bug , feature @proper prism

[ripe valley]

I wasn't sure about it too, tried on multiple systems last night but didn't had the time to update the log.

The flicker is so quick that I have troubles with my eyesight for seeing it most of the time.
srg320 explained it technically.

[ripe valley]

I tried to create a build without any "Useless/Redundant Features In Core OSD" and without any debug ones too.
We gain almost nothing at all, not much of a difference when compiled (like 0.04%, and the FPGA is at 98% full with the last unstable build).

[jovial lichen]

Do you think that using the same concept as saroo can save resources?

[ripe valley]

Please explain further your idea here, as I don't follow at the moment.

[jovial lichen]

I don't know how Saroo does it but it becomes independent of the CD block to play games

[ripe valley]

Simply because the Saroo is bypassing the original CD Block completely on the console, intercept every call and interrupts and redirect them to the FPGA.
The problem is, we cannot use the MPEG Card with a SAROO as it needs the original mechanism and the SAROO cannot replicate it and won't be possible as stated by the original author.

And the SAROO cannot simulate the original disc seek timings and data transfers for certain games, so you need an external TXT database.

[ancient surge]

Ah, I figured it wouldn't be much.

I just figured there were features that legitimately had no purpose and wasted space, so a bit of cleaning up would not hurt anything.

that and to satisfy my ocd

[burnt matrix]

Sounds like we need to add more options

[ancient surge]

Faster loading is probably the most obvious one, but I know trying to get a feature like that with the SEGA Saturn core would be tricky.

[burnt matrix]

no I mean options that would trigger your ocd lol

[sudden tusk]

GODDANG! PD SAGA is way ahead of its time … the opening cinematic alone trumps anything else from that era

[untold spear]

well, that second stick of ram i can finally use i suppose. i do need a dif io board and case. any suggestions?

[hearty marten]

It also helps to simply help requests. No more “why isn’t this option doing anything?” 🙂

[pastel basalt]

the atmosphere in that game really carries it

[ornate falcon]

Such a cool game and feels really different from the RPGs of it's time

[sudden tusk]

For sure ! Team andromeda killed it with this one !

[sudden tusk]

Hell of a lot better than FFVII !

[ornate falcon]

Such a shame it's been left on the Saturn but I recommend it to anyone

[ancient surge]

Panzer Dragoon Saga was meant to be the "Final Fantasy VII killer", and I genuinely believe it could of rivaled Final Fantasy VII if it wasn't for the absolutely atrocious circumstances at the time.

Like from a purely technical standpoint, Panzer Dragoon Saga felt more advanced than Final Fantasy VII. Which for a system that supposedly "can't do 3D well" is pretty significant.

[soft goblet]

Yeah, I'd kill for a well done remake with better graphics and for a more readily available system

[burnt matrix]

PDS is way too weird to have been mainstream and it wasn't nearly as "cinematic" which was the big marketing push behind FF7.

FF7 was literally the game that made RPGs big in the US and absolutely exploded in Japan too. There was no chance in hell for any other RPG to compete with it.

Like I'm with ya, it got robbed of praise and attention it deserves but FF7 was a gaming industry milestone. Even Sega firing on all cylinders couldn't do anything to compete with that.

[ancient surge]

To fair, Final Fantasy VII was also kind of "weird" to a lot of people.

Remember, this was back when RPGs were still niche at best outside of Japan, so for a lot of people Final Fantasy VII was something that felt new and different.

[inner kayak]

any new regressions, or is it firmly a step forward in this latest build?

[ancient surge]

Haven't noticed anything wrong with the latest unstable build personally. Maybe there is an obscure regression somewhere, but I don't know.

[inner kayak]

I noticed the build before this one was kind of two steps forward one step back

[burnt matrix]

Yeah true

It was weird to me at least lol

[inner kayak]

am curious if we’ve crossed a threshold between the test suite and manual tests and system understanding

[twin canyon]

well well well. look who's here. ROBBY.

shillin'

[burnt matrix]

please my buy my officially licensed Sega core emotes

Only $9.99, cheap ‘n easy

[twin canyon]

quick, name a good saturn game

[burnt matrix]

Bug

[twin canyon]

NOT nights into dreams? you pass the test

not bad

[burnt matrix]

LOL

[twin canyon]

fear not... we're almost in december. we'll hear much more about that game very soon.

https://tenor.com/view/nights-into-dreams-koosh-is-cool-flying-gif-18316396

what even is this? flying sonic?

it's the ultimate weeb christmas game

[visual grove]

TBH, I bought Nights when it came out but I didn’t love it. It got in the way of endless rounds of VF and other fighters

It was a little boring

The right answer is VF2 Robby

[ancient surge]

Death Crimson

[sudden tusk]

Not nearly as cinematic ? It’s got an over ten minute cinematic intro that’s way better than FFVII .. also it doesn’t take 9 hrs of gameplay before you actually start the game .. not to mention the battle system in VII isn’t the most exciting now or back in the day .

[sudden tusk]

Test PD II Zwei please

On a side note PD SAGA benefits greatly from the fast timing option especially in the big open 3D areas that are brimming with life unlike the static lifeless backgrounds of FFVII

@burnt matrix

[pearl harbor]

Well of course FF7 had lifeless backgrounds. The planet was dying!

[ancient surge]

Not noticing anything strange on my end with Panzer Dragoon Zwei so far. I'm trying out the dual RAM build first to rule out RAM being a problem, then work my way down to the single RAM build.

Oh wait, I think I see one problem. The FMV intro is stuttering a lot on my end. I can still get into the gameplay though.

[hardy lodge]

So I installed dualram to my mister. I only cried a little. 😎 Grandia now runs like a boss, no flicker at all.

[ancient surge]

Not noticing much strange with the single RAM build either.

@sudden tusk Are you absolutely sure there is nothing wrong with your RAM, the dump, or maybe the type of board your using? I'm trying to narrow down why you're having problems with Panzer Dragon Zwei.

[small gust]

I just did the same a couple of minutes ago, installed my second ram stick, that arrived today. No more flickering, no floor desync, in Grandia. Fantastic.
https://imgur.com/a/cPY1rIH

@slate bluff Did you ever solve your flickering issue, despite using dual ram?

[torn forge]

Are there benefits for using the dual ram core over the single ram core?

[sudden tusk]

I can try a new dump .. but I’m deep into saga rn ..

[small gust]

Grandia is working as intended, and lesser slowdowns in Dead or alive, Last Bronx, Virtua Fighter, Fighting Vipers and Fighters Megamix.

Though the recently added "fast timings" options in single ram build, eliminates much of the slowdowns in the fighting games as well. However if it is on par with the dual ram build right now, I can't answer.

However, I forgot to mention that the Grandia flickering issue is not some something that affected all single ram users. For some it always worked as intended. Trying a different SD card sometimes eliminated the issue.

[green swift]

Thanks for that synopsis. Hard to track all the happenin’s sometimes.

[small gust]

That is true, sometimes it feels like things change on a day to day basis, and alot of test builds both left and right.