Sega Saturn

[stiff patrol]

but there again I use HDMI so it doesnt come into my orbit

[celest lake]

Yes. @willow pawn released a fix this morning too. But it’s been merged (in theory)

[naive whale]

interesting the results are a bit diff across the board

[hallow fossil]

It would be good to get some more feedback if older versions of the SD ram in slot B are now not working with the new dual ram build, but did in past dual ram builds

[willow pawn]

Hmmm, just wondering

Analog IO, hmmm

[naive whale]

define working...booting or booting and seeing all improvements?

[willow pawn]

I tested on analog IO

[ripe valley]

EDIT : srg320 version is better, don't use it.

Reup as I've fixed a small issue, sorry.

I need some testers on it here, if possible.
I only had a small lag spike on the 3rd stage, it worked on all other stages.

[stiff patrol]

whats the new template ?

[willow pawn]

Very odd, I don't see any reason for that

[ripe valley]

sorg have done somes changes on the sys template for relaxing some dual SD RAM timings.
That should mostly fixed some issues with lag spikes and maybe improved the SD RAM compatibility.
#1046941029296779344 message

[willow pawn]

A jittery menu is normal through

[forest heart]

I’m using the misteraddons analog io pro and the latest mister main and all that stuff

I can’t recall the menu being affected in interlaced mode for other cores, is there another core and game I can reference to cross reference?

I’m trying to think but I’m coming up blank lol

[upper dust]

just compared it to to the PSX main menu with no disk loaded and the menu has much less bounce (640x480i)

could be that VF2 has a slightly higher interlaced resolution though

[forest heart]

Ah I didn’t think about that

I can compare to real hardware later

[willow pawn]

All praise sony for making the bios interlaced

[upper dust]

VF2 is 704x448i (as is several other Saturn games)

[naive whale]

I left the p/i mode changes in on Tink in the vid so people can see how the modes change in real time

since not everyone knows what 480i mode even is

esp if they werent really into gaming in the 480i years...foreign to them

[upper dust]

did a quick side by side with the old and new, and the new 480i improvements definitely make it look much more stable
thanks for getting this in @willow pawn !

[stiff patrol]

isnt the core >99% full how is space being found or is this in the framework ?

[willow pawn]

It could be that the core vsyncs oddly (It always does on the 352nd pixel, or half pixel?)
I therefore added the interlacing to be at half that but if the line is actually larger than it might not be ideal

[willow pawn]

Its a small change

[ripe valley]

No change on Time Gal & Ninja Hayate.

[willow pawn]

(At least the one I did)

[ripe valley]

96% full.

[willow pawn]

(I have no clue of the srg320 mastery)

[mortal mist]

I tried new test build from srg320 , dualsdram works fine with old 32mb sdram

[naive whale]

analog or DV1? just curious

[upper dust]

MA analog IO board (not pro)

[stiff patrol]

so its changed from this aftrenoon when you made those posts ?

[mortal mist]

Thanks , i will check your core soon

[ripe valley]

A build was done 50 min ago.

[mortal mist]

Srg320 sent me a test core

[stiff patrol]

ah

The world changes too fast 🙂

[ripe valley]

I don't know the changes so far, if the sys module have been updated too or not.

Too fast, even for me now. 😅

We won't complain, new stuff on the MiSTer.

[naive whale]

perfect thanks

so I can more effectively answer questions in comments as they come in

[random shard]

just catching up to all this stuff, my dual ram setup is ready

whoever told me to wait was wrong!!! har har har

[mortal mist]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/259

[willow pawn]

I might try another compile, to anyone that still sees jittering I'm attempting another fix

[naive whale]

good to know. I recommended in the vid to be using dual 2.9V's for safety as thorough tests hadn't been done yet

and if people felt like adding a second ram stick not to throw in some ancient piece they have lying around

[mortal mist]

If anyone has problems with dualsdram try this core from github

[hallow fossil]

Is there anything else in the updated sys other than dual ram tweaks?

[mortal mist]

Nope

[wise brook]

i’m currently at work but afterwards i will do some grandia experiments

single and dual

[hallow fossil]

Wonder if new sys would have any noticeable impact in PSX dual ram build

[stiff patrol]

PSX dual ram does almost nothing but improve the sound in a barely detectable way

[hallow fossil]

You can use geriatric ram in slot B fine with that PSX dual ram core as well if I recall. No revision issues were ever reported that I am aware of

[stiff patrol]

yes but that wasnt udpated to have a new ram controller as was the saturn

the PSX core is unchanged from what it was

[ripe valley]

@mortal mist Dismiss my last compile with the sys module updated.
The version uploaded by srg320 on the issue tracker is correct for me on Dead or Alive, I don't see any lag anymore on that game.
Tested with a dual RAM system, v2.9 both, measured at 153 (and 154) MHz stable.

[hearty carbon]

oh shit

[willow pawn]

If someone has a better eye than me please say if this is better or worse than before

@upper dust @forest heart

[mortal mist]

Yeah , DoA is perfect now

[upper dust]

this looks good - in game 3D models in VF2 and DOA look rock solid

[mortal mist]

Do you also have a problem with the sound at the end of the intro in Grandia ? JP version

[forest heart]

about the same for me, im on single ram, the performance weirdness for me is most noticable during win poses in VF2, im almost certain they didnt do that on og hardware

[willow pawn]

Mmm, alright, both are kinda hacky (This build was just a small parameter change)

[naive whale]

That’s what I had across VF 2 / DOA / Megamix / Vipers. All the models were just crisp and clear for capture on DV mode

[willow pawn]

Spicifically on this build or also on the earlier build?

[naive whale]

Earlier

[halcyon mica]

I tried your core and the latest from unstable_nightlies. Interlace on analog out does not work properly with my setup (analog board, Commodore 1084 monitor connected via RGB)

[naive whale]

I exported around 1 pm

[willow pawn]

On neither?

[naive whale]

I’ll make a note in the vid description that a newer test core exists in the channel. Dunno if we can pin it for people? That requires a @burnt matrix level of involvement haha

[upper dust]

@willow pawn newer build you just posted has a more stable and clear image - the ground in VF2 is not bouncing either

[halcyon mica]

my test game is Darius II, it uses hires for everything

[willow pawn]

Neither are accurate but newer build is better

If 1084 is picky I might try actually disninguishing between the saturn resolutions hahaha

[halcyon mica]

the intro has japanese characters, and you can clearly see that the interlacing goes wrong

[willow pawn]

Good to know

[halcyon mica]

there is also a screen with the two character portraits. the flicker (not from normal interlace, I am old enough to remember that vividly...) ist very strong there

it seems like the fields are in the wrong order?

like there are pixels above others that seem to belong below?

[upper dust]

Press Start and logo screens in Daytona USA Championship Circuit looking super sharp in 480i 🔥

[willow pawn]

I did have a build where the fields were in the wrong order and that was very clear there

[halcyon mica]

tool some pictures

latest unstable_nightly

both pictures taken during the same intro run

[willow pawn]

You tried the build I posted here right now?

[halcyon mica]

second one (look at "AGE").

which one?

[willow pawn]

This

[halcyon mica]

one sec

also the same problem. might be even worse? It is different.

difficult to catch on camera

it "jumps" even more, but the fields are not as messed up?

[celest lake]

which DOA version are people using? I have 1m 2m and rev a 10m

[naive whale]

I used 2M

And while I had less slowdown I didn’t have zero slowdown on dual ram

[celest lake]

10m is looking pretty perfect. let me check with the stable core

I don't know what was busted before

[willow pawn]

Might be the monitor than being more sensitive than my RGB TV

[halcyon mica]

I just compared to an older core - the new ones are clearly different and show more information

[willow pawn]

In like 5 minutes I'll have another build

[halcyon mica]

I can plug my Sony in if you think it makes a difference?

Interlace works fine with the PSX, though

[willow pawn]

I mean it's good that it's so easily distinguishable

[halcyon mica]

Amiga used a ton of interlace modes, the monitor should be fine with them

[upper dust]

same with Radiant Silvergun

[willow pawn]

The problem was the fields aren't exactly half offset

Apparently monitors some don't mind it at all and some do

[halcyon mica]

I see

[willow pawn]

Scalers are probably the least sensitive

This build should be better @halcyon mica , its close to a half offset (Odd horizontal size unfourtenatly)

[halcyon mica]

testing

different. seems more stable, but alltogether worse

the image is consistently messed up

before, it was jumping a lot more

let me try with a different TV

one moment

[burnt matrix]

What do I need to do

[stiff patrol]

Pay pal me $50000

[willow pawn]

Nevermind I did a dumb thing

[burnt matrix]

Was it paypaling him $50000

[stiff patrol]

your right it was 600000

[willow pawn]

No its called "Accidentlaly using hexadecimal"

[naive whale]

Wasnt sure if you could pin the newer test core before I run my vid

[stiff patrol]

The build has changed many times since then

[burnt matrix]

It’s in #unstable-nightlies

[stiff patrol]

no

[burnt matrix]

oh

[naive whale]

there was a newer test one...just was wondering

[ripe valley]

Gotta go fast

[burnt matrix]

Oh ok

I’ll try to find it

[stiff patrol]

Its the one that Kuba linked that SRG made him or the one Zat-Sensei made

[burnt matrix]

Thank you for pinging me

[burnt matrix]

I am here to serve the people

[willow pawn]

No this core is just for ones that think unstable nightlies (aka mine from a couple hours ago) doesn't look good

[willow pawn]

https://github.com/user-attachments/files/17576963/Saturn_DS.zip

This is what they reffered to

[warped saddle]

eww, I don't want VGE viewers to come here!

[stiff patrol]

dont worry all 4 of them wont show up

[halcyon mica]

I knew it was a good idea to put the Sony on stand with wheels

[naive whale]

lol can you learn a little chill today?

[halcyon mica]

interlace of the unstable_nightly looks fine there

[upper dust]

@willow pawn tested Last Bronx with the 2nd core from earlier: #1046941029296779344 message
and it looks great too. I do notice a small amount of rolling noise when the OSD is up, but otherwise good progress

[halcyon mica]

the latest test core looks weird even on the sony

[burnt matrix]

Thank you, pinned that

You have the choice to do the funniest thing ever if VGE sends people to look at this channel’s pins

[willow pawn]

Yeah that one was my bad, I made a mistake and wrote hexa instead of decimal haha

[willow pawn]

Just shows how different monitors treat this nonstandard interlace differently

[halcyon mica]

ah, I thought it was in response to another thing

you "someone with better eyes" is also not nice on the sony

[willow pawn]

Should've said someone with a better CRT hahaha

[upper dust]

FYI I'm using a 13 inch NTSC consumer CRT with Svideo

[burnt matrix]

Didn’t know you could do core dev stuff, that’s cool. What did you change?

[willow pawn]

I'm on a 20 inch Consumer PAL RGB CRT

[willow pawn]

I added Interlace on analog video
If its like 5 lines I do core dev hahaha

[halcyon mica]

currently Sony KV21FQ10E

[willow pawn]

So consumer, makes sense than it looks good haha, very similar to my own

[burnt matrix]

Either way, you’re an awesome person for being proactive on all this. Thank you.

[naive whale]

I always forget when I summon you that you arrive with a 5 pound bag of stevia

[soft goblet]

He has a faint aftertaste of licorice?

[warped saddle]

he gives you the runs?

[stiff patrol]

He is something no one likes ?

[naive whale]

he's too damn sugary sweet

just once @burnt matrix answer an at with "dafuq you want"

[warped saddle]

"never ping me again"

[burnt matrix]

I can’t because I am a goober and earnestly view request pings as my obligation to support.

being a mod means being a host, a custodian and a DJ. You’re there to make sure people have a good time, clean things up, and keep the party going.

When things go to shit I call the cops (@sharp comet)

[pearl harbor]

But I'm here! 🎉

[naive whale]

you made me make the video in the first place lol

[naive whale]

ok then that means you have the drugs right?

ROBBY HAS THE DRUGS EVERYONE

[pearl harbor]

I'm like alcohol. Both the source of, and solution to, all your problems!

[willow pawn]

Now I tested it so this isn't broken

[stiff patrol]

why are all the space men green ?

[burnt matrix]

Ok so pin that one?

[stiff patrol]

thats an interlace build Robby

[willow pawn]

I dunno nobody that saw problems with the nightly tested it yet

[willow pawn]

Yeah

[stiff patrol]

I dont think Kasher has the latest SRG changes

[willow pawn]

I do not

[stiff patrol]

Its still a pinnable one though as it fixes the interlace issues

[willow pawn]

I mean I dunno hahaha

If you have problems with the core in unstable nightlies, you can test this one

[stiff patrol]

Why do programmers always mix up Christmas and Halloween?

Because Oct 31 == Dec 25!

[celest lake]

which build has the latest SRG changes? the latest nightly?

[sharp comet]

what needs smashing?

[willow pawn]

The pinned build

[stiff patrol]

No the one Zat Sensei posted

[celest lake]

They crossed it all out though

[burnt matrix]

@naive whale does!

[radiant karma]

The one from github is the latest

[halcyon mica]

back to the Commodore, still bad

[naive whale]

lol define smash sir

[halcyon mica]

weird that the TVs and monitors react so differently

[sharp comet]

[naive whale]

I am a married man @burnt matrix

[halcyon mica]

I have another 1084S, might try that tomorrow

[celest lake]

This is what happens when you get youtube famous. Robby sicks the cops on you

[sharp comet]

I see what you mean robby

[willow pawn]

Than I dunno (Aside from the fact the vsync isn't at the end, which shouldn't affect timings)

[halcyon mica]

@willow pawn need to stop for this evening, I have to finish sth else and have to get up early tomorrow

[naive whale]

I feel like I always hear about the Commodore monitors being weird about things

[halcyon mica]

🙂

[rich violet]

This: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/259#issuecomment-2447931077

[willow pawn]

It looks like the Saturn doesn't vsync at the end in any case tho, I think its something else (Maybe an off by one error?)

[celest lake]

@burnt matrix This is the one that needs pinning

[willow pawn]

My messege is that

Just a direct link

[celest lake]

oh ok

[naive whale]

my 20" PVM and the Tink 4K were happy today but also the PVM literally is happy with any signal so long as its either 240p or 480i

[willow pawn]

I mean this signal isn't 480i, its 480i-ish

[naive whale]

thats just what I mean on the PVM...itll ingest anything if "close enough"

[willow pawn]

Which is good, seems the same on my 20 Inch Consumer CRT

[umbral radish]

Just a quick question, has anybody tried and tested the JPN "Sega Ages Outrun" with today's release of the single core. Lots of graphical corruption ..... I just want to make sure I'm not being stupid before I report to Github and my tiredness has resulted in me missing something obvious. It would only take a minute for someone to test.

[celest lake]

let me look at it

i have Japan and Japan (REV A)

[wise brook]

hehe

great googly moogly

[celest lake]

yeah it's bad

[wise brook]

if you do file the bug report, remember to specify it’s single core only

[celest lake]

no, it's both

I think

actually hold on

[wise brook]

oh

[celest lake]

yeah both

I should test with the stickied core rq

yeah, it's busted on all the official unstable cores released today

Nice catch @umbral radish

[ripe valley]

I've only tested the EN fan-translation so far.

[naive whale]

That seems…oops lol

[ripe valley]

Already reported and all the cores from today are affected.

[umbral radish]

Looks like we might have a similar thing with Sega Ages Afterburner, not to the same extent as Outrun - corruption on the Sega Ages logo at the start when it zoom in. The game itself appears to be fine though.
Sega Ages Fantasy Zone - audio bug when you get into game or you die.

[wise brook]

checking out the dual ram interlace build

beyond excellent result for day 1 implementation

spotting some quirks here and there looks like all of the Saturn’s many resolutions are gonna need dialing in

but good god it’s nice not to have flicker in grandia

[umbral radish]

I'm looking at Virtua Fighter 2 now/ Going through the Tink4k, it's absolutely stunning!

[ripe valley]

I've updated the issue from OutRun with After Burner II too, as the fix will be the same.

And done another separated issue for Fantasy Zone, as it refers to a sound issue.

[umbral radish]

Cheers @ripe valley , much appreciated!

[wise brook]

quick one

analog sound out of dual ram setup?

is it a dip switch or do i need a dac with an audio output

currently trying out the pro io without the analog bridge

[upper dust]

I think it's TOSLINK only in digital mode

[tawny forge]

Is there a TLDR on today’s unstable? Is dual ram much better than single?

[celest lake]

It has more fixes. Bacon’s video is a pretty good demo of the benefits in those fighting games

[severe whale]

I have a BVM D24 monitor I could test it on

And also OMG finally 480i!!

I’ve been running like a broken record on it

[radiant karma]

No issues with the sound in the grandia intro with the EN translated version, tested using the latest unstable single and dual sdram versions (from github). Also the flickering is only fixed in the dual sdram version.

[naive whale]

It’s pretty damn perfect through Tink with direct video

[radiant karma]

DOA has improved with the dual ram kit but I can still see some slowdown, using kasumi, I can replicate it (most of the time) by quick rolling (G) and down + (K) after being knocked down.

[brittle pecan]

I'm using the IO Analog Pro and currently getting a jittery picture on my 14 PVM with the latest unstable

also using rgb

[severe whale]

You know what would be cool

If the core got the same option as the ps1 core. That allows the 480i games output 480p

[errant crown]

Next revision of the core will auto-translate Princess Crown 😃

[radiant karma]

That would be nice but the core is nearly full so I don't think that would be possible. I would be happy with just Bob deinterlacing as I know it is very simple resource wise.

[mortal mist]

Yeah , i tested unpatched jp version

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/260

Zet-sensei confirmed that there is a problem with the original version. I never test patched games

[naive whale]

Yes there is def still slowdown

It’s so random though

[burnt matrix]

is the pinned build still the latest and greatest?

or rather this link - https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/259#issuecomment-2447931077

[radiant karma]

Yes, no new updates since.

[burnt matrix]

thank you; does it work with single ram?

[radiant karma]

Dual Ram only

[burnt matrix]

darn

[radiant karma]

But I haven't noticed slowdown with the other fighting games, like fighting vipers, vf2 or last Bronx.

[naive whale]

I had slowdown in fighting vipers a bit

I 100% forgot about last Bronx somehow today

[radiant karma]

Will keep testing then. I have been mostly playing doa.

[naive whale]

It was candy vs picky where I had it the most

I swear the slowdown is like character / stage / move dependent

[burnt matrix]

lol the best character name

"picky"

[naive whale]

Haha truth be told I don’t like Fighting Vipers

Sequel was way better

Is VF kids 480i? I can’t remember now

[radiant karma]

Yes it is, but I don't remember seeing slowdown in that game, nor in vf2.

[naive whale]

Me either. But I wanted to cover all the interlaced games by the next vid

[pearl harbor]

Isn't DecAthlete also interlaced?

[radiant karma]

Also 480i

[green swift]

Can any one test Sega Ages - Vol 1, Space Harrier and let me know if you get music? It gliches out for me on for the US and Space Harrier JP release. I'm using the linked core from Kasher. Is this the most recent Single RAM build?

[next bronze]

I think Last Gladiators (and v. 9.7) and Necronomicon are 480i?

[radiant karma]

No music in US version using the latest dual sdram build.

[green swift]

Hmm looks like a regression in both builds.

[celest lake]

Yeah, regressions in a bunch of sega ages titles unfortunately

[willow pawn]

Can you test if the newest build I posted in the channel fixes it?

[pearl harbor]

Thankfully, srg is usually pretty fast at fixing regressions.

[severe whale]

“The core is full”. That’s a comment I’ve heard so many times ever since getting a mister.

Also very frustrating that there isn’t a complete list of all Saturn interlaced games

[errant crown]

Pretty much all the games that are interlaced during gameplay are fighters, and the rest just have interlacing in menus and FMV’s.

[ancient surge]

I know these games use interlacing in some way.

Virtua Fighter
Virtua Fighter Remix
Virtua Fighter 2
Fighting Vipers
Fighters MegaMix
Dead or Alive
DecAthlete
Panzer Dragoon
Sonic Jam
Thunder Force V
Grandia
Waku Waku Puyo Puyo Dungeon
Magical Night Dreams Cotton Boomerang
Game Tengoku The Game Paradise!
Suchie-Pai Adventure Doki Doki Nightmare
Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari "Premium" Disc
Sengoku Blade "Digital Edition" Disc

[severe whale]

Appearantly Earth Worm Jim 2 got hidden interlaced mode

[severe whale]

I’m pretty sure VF1 and remix are not interlaced

VF kids is though

Maybe they are in menus? Gotta check

[ancient surge]

I think there are more of those art gallery "games" that used 480i too, but I'm not sure.

480i was frequently used because it displayed more detail in the pictures, but not all art galleries used them. The aforementioned Sengoku Blade "Digital Edition" disc used 480i, but the similar Twinkle Star Sprites "Omake" disc didn't.

[ancient surge]

On a side note, Grandia had one of these discs too called Grandia Digital Museum. But what's interesting is that the developers at Game Arts went a step beyond and turned it into a short RPG, with the meta twist being that you need to hunt down the art that was stolen in a museum.

https://youtu.be/qdNuLu1R2vk?si=h7CFwlF8MQYsqcRP

[ripe valley]

I've added the SEGA Ages regressions between yesterday and now to the issue log.

[rich violet]

@mortal mist Is https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/196 fixed? I'm wondering if it was the same issue as https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/255

[mortal mist]

no , it;s a different issue

I tested all my submissions yesterday

[gusty quest]

Need to pick up another SDram now for some testing at least Taki is still offering a cheap option

[ripe valley]

A technical explanation from srg320 on why some games will need a second SDRAM module.

[drowsy hull]

Take that you unbelievers!

[tawny forge]

Alas the dual SDRAM supremacy prevails

[drowsy hull]

Just the thought of not being able to fullspeed fighters megamix makes me sad

[hearty marten]

Time to get a second stick then

Saturn core is worth it for the extra cost to me

[drowsy hull]

Thanks mr killjoy

[mortal mist]

I think that this has dispelled any doubts about the possibility of improving the version for one sdram

[high bramble]

Core is literally unplayable now. Oh well.

[mortal mist]

yes

https://tenor.com/view/trash-can-gif-8489844925274334788

[tawny forge]

saturn turbo core wen

[mortal mist]

neva

[severe whale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1gxYjpc9Qc

thanks to eadmasters translation we now have a life sign from the original translators after 12 years

if that is not the greatest poke i dont know what is 😄

[river wing]

That was a great explanation. Going dual RAM now 🙂

[tiny flare]

Alas, I love the convenience of analog IO too much

[gusty quest]

That's fine if the limits have been reached. It's some piece of work no matter

[random shard]

Ah, we hit the ceiling again with the mister

So close to the finish line too

[naive whale]

lol

“Hey look at our shiny toy. You can’t have it. But we’re gonna drag the other guy still because grumpy face”

[severe whale]

its so extreamly lousy of them

[naive whale]

“Coming 2069”

[severe whale]

at least they admited that he didnt steal it

the guy didnt create his own thread about it. he posted his translation in the original thread

[naive whale]

Yes but in the most “it’s still wrong” way possible. I just hate this part of retro gaming. Dude with the first release did everything the right way and still gets attacked. Annoys me

[severe whale]

thats more honest than most people would do

yeah the passive agressive is hard on this one

[tawny forge]

If the slowdowns are affecting just a handful of fighting games that are using the same engine, it's probably a matter of time before some Saturn hacker come up with patches for those games so they can run smoothly on single sdram setups

[green swift]

I doubt we'll ever see thier translation. It's been in dev since 2013 right? When do perfectionists achieve perfection?

[visual grove]

Ah bummer, but it’s close so maybe DE25 can put Saturn and N64 over the finish line for accuracy. It’s amazing it got anywhere really

Maybe DE25 they’ll be able to throw another 7pins at SNAC for dual lightguns as well

[tawny forge]

sorg should just design the perfect MiSTer 2 PCB and send it out to Taki for cheap mass production

[burnt matrix]

I am hopeful that through optimization and further core improvements, something will be figured out for single sdram

[rich violet]

It's just a messy situation, with neither "side" looking magnificent. That said, the decade-in-the-making translation in that video does look like a fantastic job is being done 😍

[burnt matrix]

The new guy who put the translation out is a hero imo

[rich violet]

I tried the version that's out, and thought it was a very pretty game, but the clunky early release wasn't something I wanted to play, so I stopped quite soon

[burnt matrix]

yeah I didn’t even bother loading it up lol

I heard about the crashes and I can wait

[rich violet]

I didn't get as far as the crashes, but the slow pacing of the many short spaced out speech snippets and text overwriting made me not want to continue. With the version in the video, the spacing is fixed, so a lot more text fits in the bubbles, so there will be a lot less clicking through endless tiny snippets of text

[burnt matrix]

There was a way to fix that yourself through a hex editor after patching but I also couldn’t be bothered lol

[rich violet]

No that just squashed each line of text to the left

[burnt matrix]

Oh

[rich violet]

In the video loads more text fits in each "bubble full" of text so there are fewer

[burnt matrix]

I see, that’s good

[visual grove]

Yeah but even dual sounds like it’s maxed from srg comments above. Might be at the end of the path for achieving perfect simulation.

Damn close though

Someone needs to talk to Terasic and tell them we need at least 6 independent rams 😉

[burnt matrix]

I think perf improvements could still be attainable through optimization. Likely not now but further down the road.

[twin canyon]

robby over here shillin again

[visual grove]

I secretly want him to say “as good as it gets” and finish Battletoads 😅

[burnt matrix]

OH SHIT

I FORGOT

battletoads!!!

[visual grove]

A little greedy since Saturn is a fixture in my setup so I don’t need a perfect core and can just fall back to that for anything slightly off

But I bet he’d like some time on a different project too, it’s been a minute since he started on this journey

[naive whale]

I hope so. So many dual ram questions again lol

[burnt matrix]

We’re still very early in this new development, which is extremely exciting. Smart solutions all around.

[ancient surge]

The SEGA Saturn core hitting the limit of what is feasible on the DE-10 NANO is a bummer, but what was accomplished is still very impressive.

[naive whale]

any time anything changes people ask me how to spend their money and what they should buy haha

I just say keep your wallet in your pocket til the core is done

[celest lake]

is there any reason to have a non-dual ram build if all you’re doing is connecting via HDMI?

[visual grove]

"just buy everything or you might miss out, you don't want to miss out do you?"

should be your stock response

[burnt matrix]

Well there wasn’t really a point to having dual ram until this update that just came out

[visual grove]

but also no

[upper dust]

don't think so - nothing else uses the GPIO but RAM and analog IO boards

might as well fill the slot with ram

[visual grove]

if you never use CRTs there's no downside. If you do use them then then downsides are around dac issues and just QOL stuff where you need to troubleshoot or run something that works better over hdmi like configuration stuff

[upper dust]

thinking maybe I'll upgrade my old analog IO board with a MA digital IO direct, but pass the HDMI signal to a switch. One out goes to HDMI, and the other goes back to the MiSTer for the direct video Saturn AV port. Can only use one display at a time, but still have the option to use either

[burnt matrix]

I’m waiting to see what happens. I have analog and dual ram builds.

[naive whale]

Pi has dual ram? Wow

[burnt matrix]

lol I wish

[radiant karma]

Seems both Saturn and N64 issues are from using ddr3. I don't think a de25 using ddr4 would solve that. Should be even worse latency wise.

[ripe valley]

I've reported some missing issues found between yesterday and now + one another from some comment on VGE's video.

I hope that I've not missed anything else.

[mortal mist]

with such a number of changes , it was known that there would be regressions 🙂

[celest lake]

Thanks for all your work ❤️

[willow pawn]

What's the interlaced problem on digital?

If I half fixed it for analog might as well half fix it for Digital

Is it just adding Bob deinterlacing?

[radiant karma]

There is no problem on digital, the issue is only weave deinterlacing is implemented. Great in 480i menus, awful with any kind of movement. As most 480i games on Saturn are fighting games it kinda sticks out.

[burnt matrix]

Bob that much better?

[radiant karma]

You get rid of the combing artifacts but introduce a bobbing image, plus lose resolution. Both are compromises, but they are cheap to implement.

[ancient surge]

Bob is more consistent with motion. Like if you've ever played something like Tekken or whatever with all the interlacing artifacts smearing the screen, it looks pretty gross. That's why bob is preferred.

[twin canyon]

i chased bob away

[naive whale]

capturing some more saturn

VF Kids is such a weird vibe

[burnt matrix]

Thanks for the explanation

[burnt matrix]

By weird vibe you mean “is poopy” then yes!

It still won’t load for me through MGL, arrrgdjdhfjfjdks

[celest lake]

isn't there a sonic fighting game too?

or was that a fever dream

[radiant karma]

Arcade only, was never ported.

[burnt matrix]

There was but it’s not on Saturn : (

[ancient surge]

Sonic the Fighters

[naive whale]

just Model 2

Sonic the Fighters

[burnt matrix]

It’s called Sonic the Fighters if you didn’t know

for Model 2

[celest lake]

Sorry, did you say it's called Fighting Sonic?

[burnt matrix]

Yeah

Wait no

[burnt matrix]

Sonic the Fighters

It’s for Model 2

It’s a fighting game

Which is why it’s called

[burnt matrix]

Sonic the Fighters

[celest lake]

Knuckles and Friends Work it Out - got it

In all seriousness, I wonder if I played it on mame because I've definitely played it. Assumed it was on Saturn

[ancient surge]

It was on Sonic Gems Collection and Xbox Live Arcade on Xbox 360

[high bramble]

Roughhousing Rodents™️

[celest lake]

the most cursed platforms

[burnt matrix]

That’s how I played it, on GameCube

Was alright

That’s how I imagined VF Kids would be lol

[random shard]

is there a list of the games that will never run full speed?

[celest lake]

never is a strong word

[random shard]

I'm using srg320's words

[celest lake]

never is a strong word

[ripe valley]

We've not talked about speed of the games, but accuracy of the memory compared to a real system.

[random shard]

maybe its too technical and I didn't get it, let me read again

[burnt matrix]

It’s the fighting games that use the VF engine

[random shard]

in here SRG is being asked if they can be fixed to run at full speed and SRG says no. Did I misunderstand?

[random shard]

only those? I can live with that

[ripe valley]

On the single RAM build.

[random shard]

so they can run at full speed with dual?

[celest lake]

no no, I see what you're saying. this is more about accuracy. so the game may not run as it did on OG hardware, but the difference also may be inperceiveable after further optimizations. We don't know what is going to happen in the next few weeks/moths/years(?) when it comes to further optimizing the core. SRG says it will never be 1:1 to OG hardware, but it may be so close that you have no idea

[random shard]

ok, I guess its a compromise I expected on such a complex system

[burnt matrix]

Yeah let’s see how things look in a few months

[burnt matrix]

Same honestly lol

[celest lake]

yeah, this generation of systems is all about compromises on the de10nano

[random shard]

but what does that translate in real life for dualram users? unfixable bugs?

[celest lake]

it's a miracle they run at all

[burnt matrix]

I think some better performance on the VF fighting games

[random shard]

indeed

[burnt matrix]

Both ram configurations have perf issues, dual ram less so

[ripe valley]

Like with the PSX and N64 cores, sometimes not perceivable for the human beings.

[random shard]

wait you're confusing me,so even dualram users will have slowdown on VF games? not that I care about 3d fighters from the 5th gen though

[naive whale]

you are always wrong...its Fonic the Sighters

[burnt matrix]

Yes but less slowdown

Currently

[random shard]

I can def live with that

[celest lake]

We honestly don't know. Right now, the way that the core is set up, it will never have all the memory groups out of ddr3 (I'm going to pretend I know what that means, so just play along). Will that mean that there will always be perceivable differences between the core and OG hardware? No idea. This release is 24 hours old, and it's huge. SRG is a miracle worker, so let's see what they do next

[random shard]

ahh, I see

[celest lake]

WHAT DO YOUR ELF EYES SEE

[burnt matrix]

Honestly, better said than me.

[naive whale]

and people always need to be reminded...is it a visible / detectable difference or a mathmatical one

[random shard]

I agree with everything you said

he is my favorite ukranian (sorry krikzz)

[naive whale]

some people really hang their hat on "its not cycle accurate" when the difference is a rounding error in some math and no human being would ever defect it

[burnt matrix]

LOL

[burnt matrix]

I’m conflicted on that because I like the spirit of being uncompromising but it’s also not technically possible at all with current hardware

[celest lake]

I think if I was looking at real hardware and the mister in split screen, aside from the known bugs, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I think you have to have a deep familiarity with the original hardware to notice

[random shard]

ohhh this reminds me of a certain fps drops in games on the PSIO and a certain someone who could measure FPS with his bare eyes 😂

[naive whale]

for me if a human cant tell it doesnt matter

[celest lake]

Look at CPS2 for example. Folks who would know say it runs fast. And I think anyone who is a CPS2 efficianto would notice. But you and I wouldn't notice. And you probably wouldn't even care (except now you know so you have to care - sorry that's the rules)

[random shard]

as long as games work, I'm happy. we can leave 100% accuracy for the next gen, if there is one

[burnt matrix]

The MiSTer really does feel like some magic device when you first get it because its accuracy and performance is a step beyond most software emulators. But when you start learning more about it you realize that it’s not 1:1 because of knowledge available and hardware limitations. And to your point it doesn’t matter if you can’t tell.

@naive whale

[naive whale]

Sure but I sold my CPS 2 multi and cashed out haha

I hated that thing....giant setup with a jet engine fan

[celest lake]

yep, and why wouldn't you? that core is so fucking close who cares

[burnt matrix]

There definitely will be and I’m in complete agreement. It would be cool to get closer to original hardware with more room available,

[naive whale]

but lets me real...I dont actually play video games any more lol

[random shard]

or do a DF retro, and then thats how you know, after blowing up the image in 1000% and see some pixels missing. anyone remember their super NT episode?

[naive whale]

I just make videos about them...and that is def NOT enjoying games

[celest lake]

Listen, all we know for sure is that the SuperSega will run all of the saturn games at 100% accuracy

so please get those preorders in

[tacit cliff]

Sometimes I think about the PSX core and the way there was an announcement that the single-core version wouldn't be accurate due to a sound difference of like... 2 milliseconds sometimes

[naive whale]

lolol theres an emote?

[tacit cliff]

completely imperceptible to a human

[celest lake]

Not sure what server it's on. Maybe FPGAming?

[ripe valley]

"It's just some video games."

[naive whale]

exactly...thats Terminator level shit

[random shard]

but you are enjoying yourself, yes? I can tell because you never make a pause in those videos 😜

[celest lake]

bacon makes videos so he can troll people in the comments

that's it

[naive whale]

anything in life isn't perfect if you have precise enough tools to measure it...so stop worrying about perfection and just go how fun. That's how I see it

[naive whale]

haha really I just make videos because I was bored of my normal work

boring paint by numbers film garbage

[tacit cliff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl3H4vMqYNo

[tacit cliff]

"In a perfect world, men like me would not exist..."

[naive whale]

so I decided to talk about games...said Id give it a year. Yesterday was legit the 6th birthday of the channel

but if we are honest you CAN measure perfection

@burnt matrix mother gave me a straight 10/10

[random shard]

not to mention software emus are always a pain. I don't want to get deep into this but man, I'm glad I don't have to use them anymore. all due respect to software emu devs though, their work is very important, its the user experience I have an issue with

[burnt matrix]

I felt the same but this new wave of software emus really take GUI and accessibility into account. I love DuckStation a ton because of it.

But yeah can still be complex if you dig in

PSX core is literally like “it just works, here’s a few options to toggle, go nuts”

[celest lake]

listen, the sooner SRG ties up this core, the sooner they can move on the jaguar core

[naive whale]

most modern emulators are great at what they do but they are also proof that UI/UX teams exists for a reason

[celest lake]

Is there a good frontend for mame yet?

I feel like nothing I have tried is ever good. It's either like a list of games, or giant box art

[burnt matrix]

NOPE imo

[celest lake]

one of these days

maybe when it comes out of beta

speaking of which, is it mame day, I didn't even look

[burnt matrix]

MAME isn’t for me and I’m ok with that. I use MiSTer to play arcade games.

[naive whale]

MAME is great for 3D stuff if the emulation is finished

ill have a vid on the updates to Sys 22 / 23 tomorrow

like I dont want to drag my Crisis Zone PCB out of the closet. Its the size of a damn end table

[burnt matrix]

You’re a crisis zone

[celest lake]

nu uh, your mom is

[naive whale]

I mean look at these stupid things. Thats a PVM next to them. Two games. Like 12 inches of hard hitting steel

heheh

[burnt matrix]

Holy shit lol

[celest lake]

jesus christ

[naive whale]

oh btw did everyone realize there was a weird canadian only release of DOA for Saturn. Maybe that should be tested. Has french language support by law

[random shard]

wasn't the issue that it couldn't play all sound channels at once but that only like 2 games used them all at once? my memory is fuzzy

[celest lake]

I can test it in a bit

[naive whale]

do you have that version @burnt matrix ?

[random shard]

and a mandatory moose character by law?

[burnt matrix]

what, there’s a Canadian DoA? I had no idea!

[random shard]

whats canada?

[burnt matrix]

Do they go “sourry” after every match

[tacit cliff]

I'm pretty sure it was that it couldn't, but it would play them on the next CPU cycle instead? Something like that

[burnt matrix]

Don’t hate me Canadians I love your country

[naive whale]

Yeah it’s called “DO Eh”

[random shard]

yeah yeah, something along those lines

[naive whale]

Gottem!

[burnt matrix]

Ok yeah that’s the better spelling

[celest lake]

Yeah, but Robert later said that dual ram is actually too fast #1046940919607345272 message

[random shard]

you got free maple sauce with every copy

[naive whale]

wtf is maple sauce? lol

[tacit cliff]

I remember it was decided very quickly that it was quite literally imperceptible to humans though

[random shard]

maple syrup

[naive whale]

thats better

[ripe valley]

Never seen it and not in the official SEGA list.

[naive whale]

some hoser shit calling it sauce

[naive whale]

🤣

[burnt matrix]

Oh it was a joke lol

[random shard]

ah, you made me google

[burnt matrix]

It went way over my head

[tacit cliff]

You're looking at the wrong list, it's the S-EH-GA list.

[celest lake]

went over my head too

I was like "it's gotta be here under all this poutine"

[tacit cliff]

there's a weird glitch when you set your system to French language though? You can't finish a round, both parties just surrender immediately.

[random shard]

sort of. I read that as "core is too fast but it doesn't matter because all games are limited by the CPU"

[celest lake]

yeah, I don't think all of the games are cpu bound, but you likely wouldn't know ever if it wasn't

that's the magic. not cycle accuracy - perception accuracy

if you can get cycle accurate too, great

but if it runs as well (or is imperceptible from) real hardware, who cares

[burnt matrix]

brb trademarking perception accuracy

[celest lake]

https://tenor.com/xWPC.gif

[naive whale]

i perceive you as Yosemite Sam lol

[burnt matrix]

Thank you

[random shard]

mister is all about perception

[ancient surge]

One nitpick I have with the SEGA Saturn core is that I wish the OSD didn't have those useless options that were carried over from the SEGA 32X core.

The core is in a mature state now and we still have the leftovers.

[rich violet]

I didn't know about them/notice them

[celest lake]

God I hate youtube. Looking at this asshat's channel has absolutely tanked my youtube recommendations

just the most dogbrained shit

[naive whale]

lol they reward weird stuff

like I fully admit I throw in a sprite from a game if it has "sexy person" vibes because thats how you play the game

[ancient surge]

You click one video, and the algorithm just automatically assumes you are obsessed with that one topic and floods your feed with more.

[naive whale]

thats why I keep a burner account

[celest lake]

And they love to push the rage bait stuff

because that generates E N G A G E M E N T

[naive whale]

lol some people get enraged at what I say...and I dont say shit

[celest lake]

I'm leaving a comment on your video right now to let you know that you forgot about the saturn updates :p

E N G A G E M E N T

[willow siren]

YouTube has a unique way of turning my searches for like MiSTer and SMS games into "Here's why retro games SSSUUUUCCCKKK!".
YouTube algorithm, my guy, you haven't got a clue.
I love the 50Hz
Stop hatin

[burnt matrix]

Yeah I’ve noticed 🤣

[upper dust]

That's why I don't sign in and use bookmarks instead of subscribing (sorry...)

[celest lake]

Ahh, youtube - never change

[burnt matrix]

I call it the S1Ka maneuver

Throw in thirst traps for views

[naive whale]

it has to be done

I did the math...24% increase in views

[burnt matrix]

holy shit lmao

[naive whale]

you can run competing thumbs and viewers get one or the other

no thirst? 24% lower CTR

but I at least try and make it funny

like this

[celest lake]

reminds me of the old summoner geeks video. "If there are any girls there I want to DO THEM"

[naive whale]

see who cracks the joke first 🤣

[celest lake]

JD Vance is gonna love that video

[visual grove]

Yeah like you’re just a little morbidly curious one or two times and suddenly you’re a huge pervert... Algo is so judgey

[burnt matrix]

omg lol, but we are cracking down on political talk so please keep it to #spicy-off-topic

[celest lake]

sorry, I couldn't resist

[burnt matrix]

Sorry, but thank you for understanding

[celest lake]

Here this will cleanse everyone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zng5kRle4FA

[willow siren]

The cat is trapped in a state of thirst. Unable to reach the water.

[celest lake]

No no, I'm sorry. I can delete it if you'd prefer

[burnt matrix]

Nah it’s cool, thanks though

[naive whale]

lol nope

but I doubt nobody will admit to knowing the joke

point is there's a way to be funny and still be smart about it...or a little saucy without being over the top

but yeah thumbs like that increase views

[solemn grove]

what exactly was the interlacing issue that this recent build fixed?

[burnt matrix]

LOL that’s what happened to me wtf

[pearl harbor]

Gotta be more specific. April 20th, 2069.

[naive whale]

you blew your own joke

dunno what year THAT is

[pearl harbor]

Covering my tracks!

[polar mountain]

I'm just glad Last Bronx isn't affected. Naked Airport here I come!!

[naive whale]

just captured that

[polar mountain]

I can't remember what the other stages are... something like "Boobs Subway" or something

Penis Parking Lot!!

I was way off... its "Lust Subway"

And "Radical Parking Lot"

[hearty marten]

Did anyone else remember that game where you play as sonic characters and you like fight or something? Can’t remember the name of it

[celest lake]

Sahnic Kombat iirc

[mortal mist]

Sonic R?

[ancient surge]

Yeah this one.

[upper dust]

sure buy it on your xbox
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/sonic-the-fighters/BVXG5MD1R3WC

[celest lake]

OHHHHHH. It's called Sonic the Fighters

I wish someone would have said something

[visual grove]

It’s an overhyped model2 game people pay too much for even though it sucks

[visual grove]

Sonic Blast Man is real handsy in group photos, probably drunk

[ancient surge]

...

We did.

Multiple times.

You thought we were joking when we said "Sonic the Fighters"?

[gloomy hedge]

sonic, deez nuts

-ers

[thorn pagoda]

Tbf that guy was absolutely right and quickly switched to fully scientific analysis. Xstation passes with flying colors

[celest lake]

Wish you guys had spoken up more. I really wanted to know the name

[bleak escarp]

Y'all talking about the game with Bark and Bean? That's Fighters Megamix

[drowsy hull]

but it never got released on saturn

so yes, fighters megamix is the only saturn fg with a hint of sonicesque characters

[hearty marten]

I’ve been searching all day!

Could’ve saved me hours on Google

[drowsy hull]

we could blame robby

[celest lake]

I found a lot of interesting visual novels searching “Amy and Sonic wrestling game” so it’s not a complete loss

[hearty marten]

That sounds like a good idea. Let’s do that!

[random shard]

I'm confused, who switched to fully scientific analysis?

[thorn pagoda]

the guy who was analyzing FF7 for framepacing issues caused by PSIO

[random shard]

then you misunderstood my joke

vitaflo absolutely scientifically proved the framerate inconsistency

vitaflo is legit

[thorn pagoda]

yeah but he saw it with his eyes first

tbh it isn't hard to spot framepacing flaws at 15fps

[random shard]

I'm talking about another dude who thinks his eyes can accurately measure FPS counters on PSX games and said if you format a microsd card with 8kb clusters, you get a better framerate

and he "measured" with his eyes

[thorn pagoda]

oh i bet i know who that was

[random shard]

he even said vitaflo was lying when he proved there was no difference in cluster size as that's not just how it works at all

[random shard]

I bet you do 😂

I guess now you get the joke

[thorn pagoda]

yeah sorry didn't mean to call you out or anything

[random shard]

thank god he can't afford a mister, he'd be whining every day to srg320 and zumpass for accuracy

[thorn pagoda]

yeah if he joins this discord i'm probably leaving tbh

one of the worst people on the internet

[random shard]

I left the PSIO discord, and I still use it

[hearty marten]

What’s wrong with Robby again?

[celest lake]

1. canadian

[stiff patrol]

2. Flatuence

[celest lake]

3. Poutine everywhere

[stiff patrol]

4. Strong Eater

[celest lake]

5. Eh?

[stiff patrol]

6. I'm Sorry

[celest lake]

do we need to go on?

[gloomy hedge]

7. Dangit

[willow siren]

The above reads like the start of nice old poem. Or given the day it is, I can hear it set to the beat of Thriller for some reason.

[stiff patrol]

🎶 Eh, night falls 'round the poutine stand, The curds, the gravy in my hand—oh man! And I feel that hunger, growlin’ like a grizzly bear, But there’s something else, brewing in the air! 🎶

You try to fight it, but you just can’t deny, That this poutine’s heavy, gonna make you sigh, And you’re gasping now, buddy, get ready for the show, It's a storm in the gut, and it’s ready to blow!

(Chorus) 'Cause it’s a gas! Canadian flatulence tonight! The kinda toot that’ll knock ya out with fright! Yeah, it’s a gas! Canadian flatulence, alright! You’ll say "I'm sorry," but you know you won’t hold tight!

🎶 You feel the rumble, bubbling from within, And you brace yourself, 'cause you know it’s gonna begin. You can smell the gravy, strong and hot as the sun, And you know, oh dangit, you’re about to ruin the fun! 🎶

You clench and wince, but it’s comin’ on fast, This Canadian thunder, it ain’t never gonna pass! You’re chokin' on that Tim Hortons while you try to explain, Sayin’, “I’m sorry, eh!” But they’re all feelin’ the pain!

(Chorus) 'Cause it’s a gas! Canadian flatulence tonight! That northern thunder gonna blow out the light! Yeah, it’s a gas! Canadian flatulence alright! Those strong eaters, buddy, ain’t lettin’ you outta sight!

(Dance break with polite apologies and strong gestures)

(Bridge) Strong eater knows, that the poutine flows, With every bite, you're igniting those woes! You feel it deep down, in your core, And you’re sorry, eh, but they’re out the door!

🎶 So grab your poutine, and grab it tight, 'Cause you’re Canadian, buddy, we do this right! We eat it strong, we eat it loud, Even if it clears out the whole dang crowd! 🎶

(Chorus) 'Cause it’s a gas! Canadian flatulence tonight! The kinda toot that’ll knock ya out with fright! Yeah, it’s a gas! Canadian flatulence, alright! You’ll say "I'm sorry," but you know you won’t hold tight!

(Outro) Dangit, buddy, you better step back, This Canadian thunder’s gonna attack! You better know, eh, we don’t mess around, When the poutine’s served, it's the loudest sound in town!

Canadian Flatulence tonight, it’s a gassy delight!

Thanks Chat GPT

[celest lake]

https://tenor.com/e2H2KgNCDPm.gif

[ripe valley]

I've reviewed some previous videos from VGE on the Saturn core (from the past month) and took notes of eventual issues to report.

For Daytona USA - Circuit Edition (Japan), the game works correctly with the last unstable core.

For NBA Jam Extreme (USA), the 3D ball is incorrectly rendered as a tinted triangle, I will open the issue to the log within the next minutes.

Other issues reported were fixed or a bad rip of the game.

[mortal mist]

It's a pizza

[ripe valley]

Strange pizza.

[tiny flare]

see, Saturn can do triangles after all

[wise brook]

@ripe valley @mortal mist so I was finally able to enjoy some grandia without flickering, even the little issue of background textures and buildings de-syncing is fixed with the new dual- ram build.

Wondering if I should update or close the issue I logged way back when

[ripe valley]

At least, do an update.

[wise brook]

“with the latest dual-RAM this issue is now fixed”

“ should I close this or leave it open for single RAM users?”

[ancient surge]

I was playing Rabbit yesterday, and I noticed two issues with the newest dual RAM build.

The first is the audio briefly cutting out periodically, and the second is a glitch where the character I chose Yu-Lan had two mirrored sprites during the round win pose.

[upper dust]

Grandia on my single ram build works fine with latest build
FWIW my system never had an issue, so I might not be best to vouch

also it's the English patched version

[wise brook]

patch on non-patch never made a difference as far as I can tell, it was just something about ram timings and the SD card

My set up going through about 12 different SD cards never yielded a better result or using the USB storage

this was on four different MiSTer

[vestal night]

in the last core there are artifacts in the Sega Touring Car Championship (USA) game, and lack of color in the first race through the composite signal.
3d pad (not SNAC) doesn't work either.

[mortal mist]

Reported https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/268

[ripe valley]

I need to check with Rabbit later (busy now).

[ancient surge]

Let me try and replicate the glitch I saw in Rabbit.

Wait, maybe the glitch isn't actually a glitch? I'll need to double check this with real hardware.

[vestal night]

thanks, only I have single ram

[mortal mist]

Same for single and dual

[ancient surge]

False alarm, it's not a glitch.

Just looked weird.

Every time I boot up Yumimi Mix Remix, it keeps getting stuck on this screen. I want to double check this isn't anything on my end. Was using that dual RAM build posted by srg320 in the issues page.

[ripe valley]

I'm available within the next minutes, I will test Rabbit (for the sound) and Yumimi Mix.

[deft lynx]

New creepypasta

[ancient surge]

Found another problem.

Bouken Katsugeki Monomono has this bug where the graphics briefly corrupt every time the text boxes change.

https://streamable.com/9vpi3v

[mortal mist]

nice find

[ripe valley]

Some timings issue from what I understand.

[ripe valley]

I can't reproduce the issue with the same build and same system.

Bouken Katsugeki Monomono issue is reproducible.

No issue for me on Rabbit, either on the sound and the video.

[ancient surge]

I've got to go to work soon, but later I'll record what happens on my end so you know what I'm talking about.

Could be a bad dump or something with my specific setup causing this issue, I don't know.

[mortal mist]

Same for me , works fine

[twin canyon]

lookin' like another weeb game

[brazen rampart]

Hi, I just tested the new unstable core today and while I now have proper interlaced video everything runs extremely slow when interlaced, am I the only one to see this?

[willow pawn]

Some of the fighting games run slow

[stiff patrol]

but faster on dual ram

[hearty marten]

dat dual ram. amirite?

[thorn pagoda]

doesn't seem the end of the world, unless you're a superfan of 3d saturn fighters you can just use single

[hearty marten]

Agree. Unless you’re a tube man, the cost of upgrading to dual isn’t that significant either in my opinion - more than worth it for the Saturn

But I don’t think they’re yet running at native speed, so I’d definitely hold off for now

[stiff patrol]

even if you use a tube you only lose the ability to go to HDMi and a CRT by using a dual ram digital setup

[hearty marten]

That’s also true

[inner kayak]

Mystic Pizza

[sudden tusk]

I could beat any of you at any Saturn fighting game ever made ..

https://tenor.com/view/cơbắp-tân1cú-lực-lưỡng-khỏe-mạnh-muscle-gif-16594895

[serene thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-cool-gif-25963936

Dual RAM crew

https://tenor.com/view/angrymonke-angrymonkey-angry-monkey-monkey-angry-gif-3163795091157475934

Single RAM solitude

[hearty marten]

But can you do it at 10fps?

[ancient surge]

Any?

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/affirmative-mutt-bill-morey-gi-joe-a-real-american-hero-the-further-adventures-of-gi-joe-gif-17283606

[hearty marten]

I blame @burnt matrix. He’s in the pocket of Big SDRAM. He caused all this

[sudden tusk]

Yes even this abomination

[serene thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/aliens-newt-salute-affirmative-gif-22416140

[kindred sundial]

Last Bronx runs slow for me on single ram on the newest unstable core is that normal? Is it only dual ram that it works fine?

[wise brook]

i’ll check

yep

slow on single

[hearty marten]

I feel like it used to run okay on single. Maybe

But maybe that’s the price we pay for accuracy on other games, if srg320 was adjusting timings etc

[kindred sundial]

Yeah Last Bronx, Fighters Megamix, and Fighting Vipers used to run better for me on the old core. Agreed if it means they run worse in the sake of accuracy I’m all for it.

[gloomy hedge]

are these any good

and what do I need to make a saturn lightgun work like with SCART for example - do I need some kind of AV cable ting?

or do people usually rock the standard "virtua gun"

these just work right? @naive whale you might know...

[naive whale]

I have this. Diff color but works fine

[gloomy hedge]

gotcha, they're pretty cheap

might cop 2

[naive whale]

Nothing needed to make it work via any signal. They don’t work like a GunCon

[gloomy hedge]

sega really does rule huh

jesus ebay is just broken with some hcaptcha bullshit cant get past it lol AI wins aktane loses

[polar mountain]

My mistake. I'm still going to go to Naked Airport though. Nothing can keep me away from Naked Airport!

[ancient surge]

@ripe valley @mortal mist This is what I experience on my end.
https://streamable.com/30xwfp

Maybe it's related to me using the English patch, but I'm not sure. The rest of the game works like it should so I doubt it.

[ripe valley]

Yeah, must be the patch.

I've tried with the original game.

[ancient surge]

Oh yeah, I should probably revisit Dino Island too. I remember that game being scuffed on older builds, so I wonder if it's any better on the most recent build.

[high bramble]

Careful posting pictures of all these guns.
Someone might get triggered. 😏

[small gust]

Please keep it open, as a single RAM user with the issue, that has also posted on the github issue, I really want this to be fixed once again one day. I mean, it used to work for everyone.

[thorn pagoda]

grandia is fixed but only on dual-ram ?

[rich violet]

That's what some people have reported

[proper prism]

I noticed some weird visual glitches in Symphony of the Night. These are new. I'm using the latest nightly build. I don't remember them being present in the previous builds.

There are a few other minor visual glitches like this, but I wasn't quick enough to capture them.

[mortal mist]

Definitely worth reporting on github , the latest test core has introduced quite a few regressions

But this is normal with this amount of change

[proper prism]

Ohhh. Ok. I wasn't sure where to report it.

Overall, the update is phenomenal.

[river wing]

I'm going double-RAM, and I have been using RetroCastle components for years now.
So, I found this I/O board:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006559887054.html
...seems to support digital and VGA at the same time. But the description and pics look confusing. Since I am reading around here that having both is impossible, is this an VGA-only I/O board??

I have been trying to contact @steel salmon these past days but without much luck, I guess he's busy or something

[wet hull]

Can you try with a build that is built by a user?

The unstable nightly builder on github can sometimes be a bit buggy

[soft goblet]

semi-unrelated, is there a dual ram memtest (I know the official stance on it by sorg) compiled by someone else to test if all ram modules are good/if they're cooperating together with the main module?

[proper prism]

I'm using this one.
I wasn't aware of any other builds.
#unstable-nightlies message

[wet hull]

No there isn't

[wet hull]

Yeah try another build

@mortal mist can you help here please?

[soft goblet]

Hm.. I found a dual sdram (or just second slot?) memtest by @open swan as a fork, but no compiled version

[proper prism]

I'm confused. What other builds are there?

[wet hull]

Let's wait till kuba responses

[soft goblet]

actually, there is a compiled one, I'm just blind

[wet hull]

Yeah but the best way to test is to replace and then try with normal memtest

[proper prism]

Where would I find a compiled build? I'm sorry. I'm still relatively new to all this.

[wet hull]

I understand, please have patience

[soft goblet]

True, but considering how finicky the RAM seems to be in general, there's still a chance that the second slot could yield different results

[wet hull]

Have you noticed anything?

[soft goblet]

Don't have the second RAM stick yet, just preparing to test it once it gets delivered

[mortal mist]

@proper prism https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/259#issuecomment-2447931077

Use build from this link

[proper prism]

Well, that stopped the door from flickering, but now Alucard's cape is doing a weird flicker.

[proper prism]

His cape wasn't flickering earlier

It's a very minor issue. The game is still playable.

[mortal mist]

Still worth reporting on github

[proper prism]

Ok. I'll report it to the Github.

[mortal mist]

Thanks!

[ripe valley]

Should be helpful to add the save file with on the issue log.

[proper prism]

I just double checked it with all the capes I have. It's only happening with the Glaring Cloth.

Maybe it's supposed to be like that.

[mortal mist]

You wrote that it did not flicker before 😅

[drowsy hull]

but which version is lying

[proper prism]

The door didn't flicker before.

[ripe valley]

We could try with older builds on our systems if we could have the save file.

And compare it to the OG console.

[proper prism]

Yeah, I can send the save file

It's at the beginning of the Inverse Castle

I'm playing this translation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyQ9Fcajy7k

[mortal mist]

#1046941029296779344 message

[ripe valley]

I can't make the cape flickering at the moment on the original game and the 4MB hack + v1.1 En translation version.

Some more investigation in progress.

[twin canyon]

sotn door flickers?

https://tenor.com/view/jim-cramer-jim-cramer-thinking-jim-cramer-ponder-pondering-jim-cramer-thinking-jim-cramer-gif-17585988874376198739

[proper prism]

It's only the white cape

[ripe valley]

I know, I've tested only that cape (Glaring Cloth).

[proper prism]

You tested on MiSTer? Or an actual Saturn?

[ripe valley]

Both.

JP Saturn with a SAROO and a Dual RAM system with the same build as kuba and yours.

[burnt matrix]

y’all were busy last night

[proper prism]

The cape did not flicker on anything you tested. Is that correct?

[ripe valley]

I'm redoing the tests a second time on a bigger screen, just to be sure.

[proper prism]

I'm sorry. I misspoke. It's very late for me.

[mortal mist]

no problem my friend! I thought , I misunderstood something

[ripe valley]

I'm removed all filters, changed a vsync_adjust on the MiSTer system and seen a frame flickering on the cape.
It will be very difficult to see on a real system without a capture card and better eyes than mine.

[ancient surge]

We only want the best for SEGA Saturn!

[burnt matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/segata-sanshiro-nod-yes-gif-5612081

[proper prism]

Ok. Since you've confirmed it, I'll go ahead and report to the Github.

[burnt matrix]

Saturn is so amazing. Saturn fans are even more amazing.

I’m just lucky I get to enjoy a console with all you awesome people.

❤️ ❤️

[proper prism]

The Saturn is my favorite console. Being able to play it MiSTer is amazing!

[ripe valley]

Provide the save, the capture and your explanation.

Let's see if srg320 could determine something from it.

[blazing lance]

Why is the news bot picking up a 6 months old Saturn update that says "lots of fixes"?

MiSTer News - From: srg320

**Saturn:**
Lots of fixes.

----------------------------------------

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=84635#p84635

[celest lake]

Someone posted in the thread

and I think all the bots are like “wtf”

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=91865#p91865

[stiff patrol]

yep some idiot posted in the news thread. It should be locked to devs only

[blazing lance]

I didn't even realize that level of stupidity was possible

[stiff patrol]

Never underestimate the stupidity of people. make somehting idiot proof and a better class of idiot appears to defeat you

[celest lake]

let he who is without sin cast the first stone

[stiff patrol]

hey I never posted to an obvious dev only news channel !

[open swan]

it shouldn't be used, it was unofficial and probably doesn't accurately test it

[burnt matrix]

HAHA THE RECKONING COMES

ok that's 10 people

new people can join

[warped saddle]

I love how the discord forum concept is so important the solution to this is to just keep kicking randos

[burnt matrix]

That's above my pay grade lol

Also, if I kicked anyone and you're an active lurker/commenter here please reach out and my sincerest apologies.

[errant crown]

Posting to prove I’m still active here

I deserve to still be part of the super exclusive Sega Saturn Club

[pearl harbor]

I survived the culling!

[burnt matrix]

I went after people who didn’t have a profile image lol

[errant crown]

I remember Robby had to kick people out for me to get in here

[gloomy hedge]

Damn Robby you making trades for people

Just let me know before you guillotine me

[green basin]

Was playing albert odyssey on latest core and after the first bridge the player was vertical bars until it went back to overworld... also weapons shops have flickering textures or sprites not sure which

[high bramble]

User trafficking.

[quick sorrel]

🤯 my pink controller might have doomed me (now what image to choose)

[blazing lance]

Can't wait till Mars comes out so I can finally play Saturn 120fps

[tulip urchin]

Looks like latest unstable Out Run has corupted graphics, can anyone else try and let me know.

[errant crown]

It’s been confirmed earlier

Space Harrier, too

Dunno how many of the other Sega Ages games are affected, but at least those two

Both Single and Dual RAM

[upper dust]

Power Drift seemed fine (game needs to be bin cue for music to work though, but that's for all versions of the core)

[floral saddle]

the first game on the gakujo parodius da pack has a graphic bug on the first stage. the konami sign drops to the ground if the claws holding it are shot, when it topples over the sprite glitches over half the screen.

[ripe valley]

I've rephrased the issue and added it to the log.

[soft goblet]

Is there a "most compatible" BIOS to use with the core or is it just personal preference?

[ripe valley]

A region free patched version of any BIOS should be alright.

[soft goblet]

Cool.. sticking to the RF Hi-Saturn one then

[balmy crag]

Space Harrier seemed to look fine, but the music vanished.

[upper dust]

Bin cue or chd? Bin cue might work better

[mortal mist]

If it works well on the previous core it is not a chd issue

The last test core introduced some regressions

[balmy crag]

What Kuba said, but CHD for the record

[dusty shale]

I made a Saturn-themed wallpaper for my MiSTer.

[mortal mist]

Nice!

[dusty shale]

Thank you!

[lofty spire]

yo that's sick

[dusty shale]

Thank you!

[wise brook]

insanely hot

[dusty shale]

Thank you!

If I get time, I'll also make a 4:3 version.

[high bramble]

Very nice!

[dusty shale]

Thank you!

I'm trying to do this with my Bulk Slash save file, and the MiSTer never seems to recognise it.

I extracted the .bup using the Save Game Copier tool on my Satiator.

[burnt matrix]

Whoever doesn’t like the wallpaper gets booted from chat

Oh wait my agent just contacted me and that was “a shit joke”. Nevermind, carry on!

[lofty spire]

you have an "agent"???

but i thought you were just a funny retro gaming texan

[burnt matrix]

I am my own agent, times are tough

[gloomy hedge]

the culling continues

[errant crown]

It can get a little weird, depending on what game it is. I had an issue getting my Baroque save files over, and had to do a weird method to get it to work.

I think this seems to happen more with fan translations for some reason

Are you trying to import more than one file, or just one?

[dusty shale]

Just one.

BUL_SLA__01.bup

[errant crown]

Try using this https://segaxtreme.net/resources/saturn-save-converter.74/

Drag the BUP file over it, and then rename the Gigiri save file to the proper .sav name for use on the core

[dusty shale]

Ok! I'll try that!

[errant crown]

The save file needs to be the same file size as the one used on the core

64kb IIRC

Gigiri is the save file I’ve had the most success with

It was apparently one of the original Saturn emulators

[dusty shale]

Inside the Girigiri output folder, there's 4MB and Internal folders, each having their own save file inside. Which do I choose?

[frail token]

So I'm a bit behind how's the new core?

[lofty spire]

has the saturn core hit the limits of the de-10 like the N64 core?

[dawn drift]

What N64 games are limited?

[lofty spire]

not games, the core itself

the problem is i'm not computer literate enough to fully form the question i'm asking i fear lmao

[ancient surge]

We hit the limitations of RAM at least. Even with the dual RAM build, all the RAM functions can't be implemented, so the core will always have an inherent RAM bottleneck.

Thankfully in a majority of cases, this isn't noticeable or is minor enough that it doesn't impact playability. The most notable issue is games like Fighting Vipers and Dead or Alive can't reach full speed.

[lofty spire]

hell yeah, that's good to hear that most games are fine

really wanna give that Princess Crown translation a whirl

[dusty shale]

@errant crown It worked! Thank you!

[ripe valley]

I'm trying 2-3 things on the core today.

I could fix the SEGA Ages sound issues when reverting the VDP1 changes (so something broke with the VRAM access and the rest of the system).
I'm trying to revert just the VDP2 changes and see if OutRun could run once more (I will test within the next hour).

[pearl harbor]

Some great improvements! Also some regressions. But srg is on the case babyyyy! 🤘 🤘

[dusty shale]

Putting Bulk Slash through its paces on the core. 2 stages in and I can't tell any difference between this and real hardware.

Absolutely stellar.

[pallid pier]

I'm still getting random black screens on the end of Fighters Megamix intro, I'm trying to figure this out. This is on the latest dual ram build too.

[ripe valley]

That one from the issue log ?

[errant crown]

Cool!

[dusty shale]

Is there an inverse process for getting this save back on the Saturn?

[errant crown]

I’m sure there is, but haven’t figured it out yet

@dusty shale OK, I think I might know. Rename the save file to the Gigiri format and run that through the program. It produces BUP files in one of the folders. Try that and see if it works.

[dusty shale]

Noted! I'll try that some time!

[frail token]

really? Did SRG say that? I'm on his patreon

[radiant karma]

He mentioned it in a GitHub issue. He had to move ram from DDR to the second sdram in order to match original timings in to improve the slowdown in some games. Fixed grandia flickering in the process.

[frail token]

ahh damn, so not much hope for single SDRAM?

[radiant karma]

Not for those games it seems

[hardy lodge]

Gee. Those dual ramers gonna let us hear this forever.

[lofty spire]

so getting a MiSTer clone board with dual ram went from "something i'd like to have" to "necessary" for me it seems

[hardy lodge]

So is grandia flicker better understood now or still a MiSTerY?

[errant crown]

Wait, so will the core never be able to run Fighting Vipers at full speed?

Or, will Dual RAM be the exception?

[radiant karma]

Well it was fixed by the new dual sdram core so it must have been a timing issue.

[radiant karma]

Fighting vipers on dual ram runs basically at full speed now, I suppose a further tweak is all it's needed to be perfect.

[errant crown]

OK, cool

Glad I have Dual RAM, then

Even though I keep hearing people say it’s not necessary, I got it just in case a situation like this would happen

[hardy lodge]

Dang. Grandia is really important to me and I do have an digital io with only 1 ram stick. But I guess I'll wait a bit longer and see how the grandia situation evolves before pulling the trigger on a second stick.

[dusty shale]

I only have a single RAM setup. As far as I know, I can either have the second RAM or the Analog I/O board, but not both.

(MiSTer Pi)

[lofty spire]

yeah, the analog I/O board has a place that goes into one of the RAM slots

so you'd only have one stick of ram if you got that

[errant crown]

To be completely honest, I find the analog out overrated, since you can just use Direct Video with the Digital IO board.

[lofty spire]

i only got an analog i/o board cause they were out of digital ones when i was getting stuff to build my mister

[dusty shale]

I'll keep that in mind for the future.

[radiant karma]

Not simultaneously though. I have seen a dual setup of a CRT and a LCD in Tate using mister.

[dusty shale]

I've done that for fun.

[errant crown]

Yeah, that is the main draw, like if you want to play on a CRT and stream easily.

I’ve peronally been able to work around that, though

[errant crown]

There also is the issue of finding the right Direct Video adapter, but that isn’t an issue for me anymore, since I have a RetroTink 4K, which has DV features built-in

[errant crown]

Curious, what game is this 👀

[dusty shale]

Shoujo Kakumei Utena: Itsuka Kakumei Sareru Monogatari (Saturn).

[errant crown]

Looks like a dating sim?

[dusty shale]

Sort of.

Mostly just a plain old VN.

[errant crown]

Apparently it has a translation?

[dusty shale]

It does! The name entry screen is unchanged, though, hence the Japanese lettering shown.

[errant crown]

Cool

I’ll have to check it out