Sega Saturn

[trim nimbus]

what about strange robbys laying in ditches handing out fpgas?

[quaint dove]

insanity

he'd only hand out pis

[clear condor]

Help! Help! I'm being stretched!

I have been playing Sega Rally, and man this core has blossomed hasn't it

[drifting crown]

I’m shocked (not shocked) no one got this reference.

[lofty spire]

it's just Monty Python and the Holy Grail. the internet is full of references to it. it's honestly more of a surprise when someone references something else tbh

[drowsy hull]

you all should just play 10 or so iterations of dark saviour to calm down.

[sudden tusk]

NOBODY EXPECTS A MONTHY PYTHON REFERENCE!

[lofty spire]

i'm sorry, but everyone expects it

all the time

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/spanishinquisition-spanish-inquisition-diabolical-laughter-gif-13901571717868153323

Yeah I just did it

[burnt matrix]

I realize I play the Saturn core daily. There’s just an endless amount of cool ass games on that system.

I still regret not being a Saturn fan back then but now I get to enjoy the amazing library it has for the first time.

[warped saddle]

Robby-come-lately over here

[prisma wraith]

Just learned theres a Ghosts n' Goblins/Incredible Machine hybrid game on Saturn today. Shuttle mouse support too!
Called "Arthur to Astaroth no Nazo Makaimura: Incredible Toons", Japan-only.

[lofty spire]

probably didn't help that Sega just released the Saturn without any fanfare and some areas didn't get Saturns at all (in the United States at least)

[topaz mica]

I have a friend who introduced me to Saturn around '99/2000. He had a netlink setup and would dial a buddy for duke matches. He also imported games like Radiant Silvergun which blew my mind during that time period.

Really made me appreciate the console despite it being cast aside by the gaming public at that point.

[tiny quartz]

Basically a re-skin of The Incredible Machine. It's really good.

[tiny quartz]

They released it with huge fanfare, but they were desperate to beat Sony to the punch, and launched in JP and US too soon, without the capability to meet demand. There was no win for Sega here, if they'd waited to have more stock Sony would have trounced them even harder. I borrowed a system from a Japanese friend and was the only game store to have a demo for a long time.

[sudden tusk]

Really ?

Kind of like how Mario 2 is not actually Mario 2!

[pulsar mantle]

Making a note of this. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[pearl harbor]

I put in a feature request on github that locks anyone out of the core permanently if they weren't a Saturn fan back in the day. No need for people who jump on the bandwagon late!

[frank crater]

RIP 😭

[serene thunder]

Only those who were forged in the flames of disappointment from the western Saturn release

[pearl harbor]

The day one surprise early launch fans only!

[dim tulip]

I’m part of the ‘encountered NiGHTs in the pinball minigame in Sonic Adventure in the early 2000s, then used Yahoo to find out more, and desperately attempted to make SSF run well on a crappy PC’ segment of Saturn fans

[inner kayak]

many paths, one love 🙂

[humble epoch]

I got mine May of 95 and sold it and all of my games to buy a PS1 with FF7 and FF8 in the Summer of 99.

It was kind of funny how I ended up with the Saturn. The store my Dad went to buy it at didn’t have any in stock. They had a display model set up though so my dad asked if he could buy it for a discount. They ended up basically offloading most of their Saturn section to him for like four hundred dollars. He came home with two bags of games and the system like, Happy Birthday. In hindsight not a great sign for Sega.

[hearty carbon]

you bought a PS1 in 99?

[plush jetty]

But have you tried this one? https://z-team.itch.io/maria-renards-revenge. Hope this is a sign of more homebrew/ports to come!

[humble epoch]

yep. I didn't actually get a ps2 until like 2004.

[hearty carbon]

ahhh, right on.

[humble epoch]

Yeah I had kind of stopped gaming a lot by then but when I saw FF8 I was like, oh I gotta play this.

Then we got 9 and Chrono Cross.

[burnt matrix]

I haven’t, that’s cool! Thanks for sharing bro.

[paper tiger]

I forget when I got a Saturn.. I only know I didn't get it at launch because I was travelling at the time and was in Hawaii when I saw it for sale and was like wtf

and there was no way I was buying it since i didn't want more stuff to carry

[high bramble]

I definitely didn't get one at launch, because it simply didn't impress me. Feeling a bit burned after the 32X release and the US Saturn launch debacle didn't help.
I waited until after the Model 2 had been released and had come down a bit in price... and I still wasn't impressed.
It was the only Sega console I never cared for, but I'm still extremely grateful it exists on MiSTer.

I liked the controllers though. 😉

[kindred peak]

It's not gatekeeping when it's just a poster of Robby that says "Do not serve this person".

[lofty spire]

i didn't even know what a Sega Saturn WAS when it launched lmao. didn't know ANYONE who had one. it was all PS1 or N64. i had an N64 and a cousin of mine had a PS1

[burnt matrix]

Yeah I never saw Saturn or knew someone with a Saturn. It was just when I went to Toys R Us or game magazines.

[lofty spire]

i lived in North Carolina at the time and i think the closest store that had any in stock was a couple states over lmao

[hearty carbon]

I lived in North Carolina and bought one at Toys R Us

[lofty spire]

nice

[burnt matrix]

I remember there was a Toys R Us that had all three systems setup with their platformers, Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot, and Nights.

It was really fun playing all three back to back

I wasn’t kind to Nights as a kid lol

[lofty spire]

did you play Nights on a standard Saturn controller or did the Toys R Us have the 3D controller?

[hearty carbon]

I was really excited about the 3d controller but didn't think much of Nights

I don't know if it was a pack-in or I just bought it at the same time.

But I had both of them and was like, "damn, this isn't my kind of game"

But it worked with a bunch of other games just fine

[burnt matrix]

Probably standard controller?

[lofty spire]

it feels a lot better on the 3D controller but it still requires getting used to how squirrely Nights controls lol

[burnt matrix]

I was a dumb kid too and thought the design wasn’t “cool”

Meanwhile wacky animal that goes woah and fat Italian plumber was cool

LOL

[lofty spire]

we all had dumb opinions as kids. i used to hate Dead Space cause it was just RE4 in space lmao

[burnt matrix]

LOL I mean I get it

[lofty spire]

then i played it more recently and went "wait a sec, this game kicks ass"

funny how opinions can change over time like that lol

[compact marlin]

anyone play hell slave on the core? heard it mentioned on pandamonium's virtua cop docu and want to try it out now

[light magnet]

You mean Powerslave?

[compact marlin]

https://segaxtreme.net/resources/hellslave.58/

no its a newer game from a few years ago

[tiny flare]

wow, how have I never seen this, this is awesome

straight away with the Quake noises

[lofty spire]

welp, time to test if this works on mister

[lofty spire]

it appears to work but unless you like playing multiplayer deathmatch games with AI bots or you have local friends to play it with, you're not getting a whole lot lol

interesting that someone was able to make something new on Saturn but not my kind of thing lol

also considering the last update was 2 years ago, i wouldn't get my hopes up for any updates lol

[compact marlin]

Is there no single player? Me and my brother were able to get into quake 2 on n64 core lol so we'll have to try this one out

[lofty spire]

not unless you count deathmatch with bots as "single player"

[burnt matrix]

Saturn Original aspect ratio or Corrected?

[serene thunder]

I eyeball it game by game

Do what you feel

[burnt matrix]

Is corrected how it would appear on a CRT?

Looks wider than 4:3

[thorn pagoda]

isnt that just leftover from the genesis core?

[burnt matrix]

Oh no idea

[thorn pagoda]

it may still apply to saturn i'm not sure

[high bramble]

Corrected is called 'corrected' for a reason. 😏

[strong hull]

On the core corrected shows square pixels. It’s easy to spot what it does on the pixel patterns from transparency effects

[burnt matrix]

ah thanks

[high bramble]

With Corrected, circles are proper circles... except for Mortal Kombat (on Genesis/CD), but who plays that anyway?

[serene thunder]

Looks good with some titles, not with others

[ancient fractal]

Corrected is never correct 🤪 (but if someone prefer it that’s all good)

[tiny quartz]

@visual grove - I found something you might want to see, on FB marketplace. Looks like an original VF2 instruction card.

@visual grove https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/468491455790320

[visual grove]

Interesting! They look like they had a tough life but I’ve messaged the seller to see if they will sell just the cards. Thanks!

[tiny quartz]

I figured they might be useful as a starting point for re-creating them. A lot of the art seems to be the same as the one I scanned.

[visual grove]

Yup agreed

I definitely don’t want the “old school cabinet” though 😅

[tiny quartz]

Ye gods no

Australians don't take care of their shit, and they have bizarre ideas of what cabs are worth buying.

[visual grove]

That and shipping to the US would be very bad, hopefully a padded envelope or something isn’t the worst if he will separate it for a not crazy price

[hallow fossil]

A couple of feature requests added:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/225

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/224

[light magnet]

Are the music loop issues and freezing with Assault Suit Leynos 2 known?

[serene thunder]

https://youtu.be/2VmWVui2KjY

[boreal forge]

Is SNAC fully supported on the official core now?

[thorn pagoda]

only for digital pads

[boreal forge]

I talked to someone who played using the 3d pad?

Played Sega Rally

[thorn pagoda]

it was possible on some older forked snac builds but that fork isn't whats in the main core

[serene thunder]

ur a forked snac

[drowsy hull]

Use a fork on snac, got it

[burnt matrix]

No

[gloomy hedge]

Mean unicorn

[burnt matrix]

I forgot I had the failicorn

[pearl harbor]

It does work with the 3D controller!

[humble epoch]

CRT gone. Retrotink 4k ordered.

[boreal forge]

Thank you for the confirmation.

[hallow fossil]

Saturn core has the latest FW that is needed for Retro Tink and Morph 4K scalers, doesn't it?

[rotund steeple]

You mean DV1 autocrop? Yes, the framework update was made.

[hallow fossil]

Cool, good to know

[pulsar mantle]

Do the triggers work? This is my biggest problem with trying to use the 3D Pad over USB right now. Those analog triggers just refuse to work if you set it on the 3D pad setting. I really hope the MiSTer/Saturn devs can hash this out eventually.

[hallow fossil]

Is SRG doing his own SNAC implementation or has he added in the work Blue did?

[clear condor]

Sorgelig said he'd look into analog triggers generally, which would be nice for a couple of other controllers as well

[inner token]

at one time the analog triggers did work with snac, but I'll let Mario answer if they do now.

@hallow fossil I gave him the code and said he could use it as is or rewrite. You can see it in the issues. He chose to rework it, the core was very full at the time high 90 percentage

[hallow fossil]

Ah, this is something I was wondering as well, if there is space left much else like more peripheral options and cheats etc.

[inner token]

probably something only he can answer may be able to rework some part and optimize or remove some stuff

[supple vine]

I just tested SNAC on the latest official Saturn Core 20240628, it works perfectly with the Saturn 3D Controller, including analog triggers etc. I can control the gas in Power Drift via analog trigger in small increments, steering is analog...

Regular Saturn six button controllers also work via SNAC.

[inner token]

thanks for confirming, I didn't actually have 3d pad to test

[burnt matrix]

Oh yeah I need to test the Morph4k with this core.

[burnt matrix]

What does DVI auto crop do?

[thorn pagoda]

oh nice, sorry i've been repeating that without verifying it for don't even know how long

[pulsar mantle]

Looks like I'm getting into SNAC.

Thanks for the help, guys. My wallet hates you though.

[rotund steeple]

It automatically cuts the black borders from the games and gives you full screen (no need to manually do it) due to meta data that the Mister sends over HDMI. Some are still left in specific games, but these are part of the game resolution then. With auto decimation (Tink) and direct video generally you get the 1:1 native resolution scaled to fullscreen.

[burnt matrix]

That’s super cool, thank you for the explanation!

[pearl harbor]

Yes the triggers work. Only over SNAC does the controller work properly.

[lofty spire]

i guess the 3D controller only works on SNAC then? i have a SNAX adapter and hooking up my 3d controller to it and nothing works. the controller does work on an actual Saturn though

[hallow fossil]

Out of interest, do you think adding in SNAC mouse and keyboard support would take up much space?

[pearl harbor]

It should work on SNAX as well. Have you tried pulling the controller's plug out of the adapter a bit? It can be a little finicky.

[lofty spire]

i'll give that a shot

[inner token]

mouse shouldn't take much. I had it working in my code, it uses the same protocol as the 3d pad. keyboard - I'm not sure I'd have to look up how that worked

[clear condor]

I think I'd expect the SMPC keyboard handling to "just work", but only support a subset of the keys

the "real" keyboard use requires SH-2 Direct handling, which might or might not work

[lofty spire]

pulling the controller out of the adapter and back in seems to make the 3D controller work with the saturn core lmao

[pearl harbor]

Well, it's not a problem with the core though. It's a problem with the adapter itself.

[hallow fossil]

I think this is all info needed for the Saturn keyboard, that is linked on the GitHub issue:
https://plutiedev.com/saturn-keyboard

[supple vine]

It sometimes helps to pull the Saturn controller plug a little bit out of the socket, to make sure all contacts are good.

[inner token]

there's a chance keyboard might work on one of my old test builds, not sure about current code. I don't have the sega keyboard though does anyone here?

[hallow fossil]

You can actually use any PS/2 keyboard if you can get an adaptor that apparently Sega used to make

[inner token]

yeah maybe that's possible. But I kind of doubt usb keyboard will get added, not many games support it. so there might be a better use of the space that the usb KB code would take up(like not using the sega KB adapter)

[hallow fossil]

Although looks like these things cost more than getting an actual Saturn keyboard

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176280409563

Yeah if space is an issue and USB keyboard support cuts into that the that may be something that is added when MiSTer 2 is released

[burnt matrix]

I want lightgun support

[hallow fossil]

My understanding is it is pretty straightforward to add usb keyboard support to cores, you "just" need to adapt the file I link on the GitHub issue with the details for the keyboard and system in question, so a more junior dev could do one. However it is a laborious process, so someone would need an afternoon and some good tunes on the go to complete one. There are a few systems that could have keyboard support added for a handful of niche games or apps like Master System and N64 (latter obviously has space issues though)

Agree with Robby, would be a real shame if there isn't space for light gun support on DE-10

[open swan]

You can do USB keyboard mapping without explicitly adding keyboard support the old way like that.

But that would be key to gamepad mapping

[hallow fossil]

Is best practice to make a file like this one?
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/CreatiVision_MiSTer/blob/master/rtl/keyboard.sv

Incidentally I read that the Saturn keyboard would work on a Mega Drive with an adaptor, and some homebrew apparently use keyboard on Mega Drive, so could be a two-for-one with this keyboard if it were ever added

[inner token]

you would have to take the scancodes and turn them into the protocol that saturn uses, and this is just for the subset Nolbin was talking about. to do the full keyboard (usb) it would be even more complicated. Not impossible but like I was saying we are running out of space. I actually did run out of space before.

[open swan]

yeah for usb keyboard to game system keyboard, yeah

[burnt matrix]

lol

Holy cannoli

[inner token]

ok checking out the code, there is mouse code, and I tried out the sega mouse with snac and it seems to work. There is an issue on github about mouse but I think they are talking about usb mouse. but there is an option for mouse in the input options so I think mouse is done. (maybe after that issue was made)

[burnt matrix]

SNAC mouse?

[high bramble]

Mouse SNACs?

[burnt matrix]

I ain’t no cat

[inner token]

yeah guess they called it shuttle mouse, https://segaretro.org/Shuttle_Mouse

that seems to work with snac, I'll let you test out usb mouse, should just have to change the input to mouse in the input options

[burnt matrix]

Omg

[compact marlin]

Can I use a regular mouse on saturn core for stuff like virtua cop

[burnt matrix]

I think those games do support the shuttle mouse

[topaz mica]

"This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated."

[burnt matrix]

Lol some shit went down

[serene thunder]

Hmm, I did notice that I could not find his Disaster video where he gave all the details of his power surge and flooding
Now the whole channel is gone??

[topaz mica]

seems like it

[serene thunder]

Curious

[sudden tusk]

Ha you don’t even have one single crt …

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-bitch-please-judging-you-glare-stare-gif-17887830

[quaint dove]

Is this an old post? I thought everybody heard the gospel of Robby. He now has a PVM. or a BVM. One of those fancy ones. Don't you get his newsletter?

[sudden tusk]

Mere illusions

He knows nothing of such power

[quaint dove]

I get it every month. It's basically High Times except every reference to weed is a Raspberry Pi instead. Pi Times.

[quaint dove]

I had never even heard of Last Gamer before but apparently the platonic ideal of a youtuber thinks he should come back.

[burnt matrix]

GORDITOS

[drifting crown]

Aw, so tiny and cute.

And he has a pvm too

[sudden tusk]

I would stand corrected but I happen to be sitting down when I seen this ..

This a Saturn thread and you are showing one of the games that sent the Saturn into an early grave … tisk tisk bro .. tisk tisk

[drifting crown]

@burnt matrix doesn’t even have the Saturn core installed

[sudden tusk]

Wouldn’t doubt it ..

With his bourgeoisie set up .. double tisk!

[warped saddle]

he has the Sega Rally core installed

[sudden tusk]

This is what a real blue collar setup looks like …

[sudden tusk]

Bet he can’t make it past the second track!

[sudden tusk]

Los monitos gorditos !

[gloomy hedge]

ah yeah you're using the shooting down technique on the top right monitor, thats how you beat garegga, just shoot down wards

[sudden tusk]

Nah that one is there strictly for when I need to change ini settings for whatever reason

[gloomy hedge]

Whatever you can't fool me

Aggerag
Elttab

[serene thunder]

Shmups for bats

[tall radish]

What's some reccomended sega saturn games? RPG's and platformers being my two most played genre

I've only played Grandia, and Knights into dreams

[lofty spire]

i think the Sonic World part of Sonic Jam is pretty neat and it's another way to play Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles

there's also Bug! and Astal (might wanna play the Japanese versions if you find the US versions too hard though)

[tall radish]

I've also played Panzer Dragoon

[tall radish]

Awesome, will check them out tomorrow morning!

[pearl harbor]

Dragon Force is my personal favorite Saturn game.

[quaint dove]

Dragon Force for the RPG side for sure.

[green jacinth]

fat bebe simulator is a massively fun game its also called magic knight rayearth in some circles

if you like a straight forward zelda-like jrpg

[thorn pagoda]

whats it like pushing the buttons through the armorshock rubber thing?

[burnt matrix]

Makes the buttons feel less pronounced and makes it feel less mechanical.

[paper tiger]

I don’t know if i would classify Dragon Force as an RPG

It’s Dragon Force :p

A unique game in its own right

[hearty carbon]

Anime Total War before Total War existed

[quaint dove]

It’ll scratch that RPG itch. Anime, fantasy, magic, characters, story, ridiculously broad shouldered armor guy. It has it all.

I mean look at this guy

[hearty carbon]

by gawd, that's the Mad Lion's music

[burnt matrix]

I fixed it’s Now it looks like a Saturn game

[ancient surge]

You know it's peak fiction when the guys are built like a brick wall.

[light magnet]

Am I the only one having issues with Assault Suit Leynos 2? Loads initially, but has music problems and then crashes during gameplay.

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/leavethosekidsalone-anotherbrickinthewall-pink-floyd-kids-gif-27039051

[ivory veldt]

Fingers crossed for light gun support soon

[gloomy hedge]

what the hell @burnt matrix its been 2 days

and I havent seen any funny comments from you

why am I not entertained

entertain me

its all this saturn rpg talk that ruined it isnt it

you know what we really need is a Princess Crown translation

that game is back when vanillaware was even more based

[pearl harbor]

I sense Robby entertainment incoming!

[burnt matrix]

Y’all ever think about how Sega’s history might’ve been different if they changed a few things about the Saturn or its marketing?

Like what if they made the Sega Saturn except it was good? Might’ve been a real showdown between them and Sony.

[burnt matrix]

I play the Saturn core daily, I love that little system I ignored as a kid.

[pearl harbor]

In all seriousness, the 32X contributed to the Saturn's doom honestly. Sega earned a lot of bad blood with how they handled the end of the Genesis's life.

Not to mention the surprise early launch in North America.

[burnt matrix]

I blame Sega’s woes on Tom Kalinske and Nakayama not keeping him on a tight leash. SoA was a marketing and sales division, not hardware.

And even then Kalinske burned through all of SoAs cash on really egregious budgets.

[pearl harbor]

I blame their woes on Robby. For reasons that shall remain obvious.

You didn't love them enough.

[burnt matrix]

[humble epoch]

Yeah I still check in to see if there are any updates on that. It’s been a decade but I still have my fingers crossed it’s coming lol

[gloomy hedge]

The showdown was I had a Saturn as a kid and was laughed at because everyone else had N64 and PS1

Great now I'm crying thanks @burnt matrix

[burnt matrix]

I’m sorry!

I can’t wait until cheats get implemented so I can finally play the fourth Sega Rally track I mean so everyone can play because I’m a gaming Adonis.

[radiant karma]

Just tested and have no issues with it.

[clear condor]

Sega Rally has native cheats https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/saturn/573998-sega-rally-championship/cheats

but also, I finally got to play Lakeside for the first time last night, and getting good enough for it was a really fun experience

[burnt matrix]

Thank you for the cheat codes, friend!

||don’t tell @gloomy hedge I’m using this plz||

[gloomy hedge]

^ you

cheating

[gloomy hedge]

lakeside is funny for sure haha

silly course

really annoying once you get rammed but otherwise really fun

that mud is a brand new feeling lol

[clear condor]

slip slide bonk WHOA

[clear condor]

No seriously, get good

[burnt matrix]

LOL fine! I’ll try it again. 🥹

[light magnet]

So, I was helping LE with their Analog IO Pro. We found out that the 10 pin connector that LE had mentioned here before was indeed misaligned just enough for it to not fit their Nano.

Turns out it fit mine, after some slight coaxing. Mine fit theirs. We just ended up swapping. But the connector on their IO board was ever so slightly out of alignment.

[burnt matrix]

Oh nice, I saw the convo over on the other Discord. Great to hear you two figured it out!

[tawdry lion]

the ending blow really was when they were dealt the unfortunate card of being first to present at the conference announcing the console. They gave such a big presentation, but the price was very steep.

So steep, that the Sony reps had prepared an entire speach for their hardware, but after hearing the Sega announcement, lowered their asking price of $399 and rewrote the entire script to basically just state the price as a wow factor. When the head of SCEA entered stage and just said "$299", they paused for applause, basically ending Sega's chance entirely of competing. Even though Sega dropped the Saturn down to the same price later, it was too late.

I think Sega could very well have kept in the hardware market if they weren't dealt so many hard blows one after the other. They were so unlucky. Both of Sony's competing consoles killed the competition, especially in Japan. The Dreamcast didn't stand a chance with PS2 supporting DVD's out of the box.

If Sega hadn't been too late or too early every generation they released, they may have been the Xbox of today.

[visual grove]

An “also ran” instead of a “dead and buried”

Sony proved you could win a console war just through clever mergers and acquisitions.

[burnt matrix]

I honestly don’t think Sony’s price announcement was that big a factor. The only people who saw that at the time were sales reps and a small assortment of journalists. The real killing blow what Saturn launching ahead of schedule and screwing over major retailers who refused to stock the console because of being snubbed.

Sony was basically a shitty games publisher up until that point and all the way running up to the PlayStation launch people were doubting their ability to deliver against Sega and Nintendo.

[visual grove]

And the lack of games for a long time (in the US)

[humble epoch]

And third parties who thought they were going to have launch titles and all of sudden didn’t.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah exactly, Sega out of fear and desperation basically buried themselves.

People like to point at everyone else and say this killed Sega or that killed Sega. But Sega was always their own worst enemy.

[humble epoch]

When reading game magazines from that time period it’s wild to see how quickly the gap between Saturn and PlayStation develops in terms of third party support.

[burnt matrix]

And you’ve got to understand that Sega didn’t know how to sell the Saturn outside Japan. Arcade ports still mostly were celebrated in Japan but the U.S. and Europe wanted meatier games.

Arcades were dying in the mid 90s and the consumer no longer wanted those types of games at home.

[twin canyon]

you killed doom

[burnt matrix]

According to sales and metacritic I did the opposite huahuahua!!

[tawdry lion]

This I didn't know. Fair enough

[twin canyon]

those reviews are all paid and bought

fake reviews

[visual grove]

That’s what I mean about acquisitions, Sony bought that software company that built SDKs and dev kits that made 3rd party efforts a lot easier. Meanwhile Sega was still creating those key libraries / dev tools in house after launch. I think this was covered in the VCOP pandemonium

[burnt matrix]

I mean it’s conjecture on my part to be frank. But early E3 wasn’t really a known thing among consumers.

[burnt matrix]

Yeah, Sony really catered to developers and had English dev tools too

Turns out if you make it easy for developers they make games for your system

[tawdry lion]

Then there was the Net Yaroze...

[burnt matrix]

Wild concept

[humble epoch]

Yeah, I believe that was the very first E3. There wasn’t a big following for it at all.

[tawdry lion]

E3 starting out wasn't even geared TOWARDS consumers wasn't it?

[burnt matrix]

Never

[tawdry lion]

It was for people in the industry to get the first look

[burnt matrix]

E3 was never intended for consumers

[visual grove]

Yeah Sega took the old view of just let the dev houses figure out the hardware and how to leverage it, while Sony was like here ya go just use this. It’s an easy choice where to at least start your work

[burnt matrix]

It was intended for sales reps. Not even games journalists.

[tawdry lion]

yeah

[burnt matrix]

E3 was always a convention about giving game publishers a platform to sell to stores so they could place orders. It’s why it’s in the summer.

It was born out of CES because they were getting lost in the myriad of random bullshit.

[warped saddle]

although just a few years later consumers were already sneaking in. I had friends who went in like 97/98

[burnt matrix]

I went in starting in 97 as a kid

Atlanta baybeeee

All you needed to do was have a business and say you made games. They don’t give a shit.

[tawdry lion]

Haha

yeah and at some point they started letting Gamestop staff go too right?

[burnt matrix]

actually early years it was really easy to make up a fake website and say you were a games journalist too lol

Yeah because they’re point of sales, I think there’s a huge benefit to that imo

[tawdry lion]

I have a feeling letting the young adult Gamestop staff go had a hand in the consumer interest

not being able to keep their mouth shut

[burnt matrix]

E3 shouldn’t have ever allowed the general consumer to attend. The show was never meant for that and that really fucked creating demos and presentations.

[tawdry lion]

Companies didn't have to worry about hype or loss of sales by what they said

I mean loss of sales as in, if they failed to show gameplay, or if something seemed off, the entire internet would boycott a game due to what they saw. That wasn't a factor before. It was business to business transactions...

Robby... you've been in the interest a while. I am curious. I've had a feeling for a long time that people complain so much about the gaming industry not being what it used to be, but none of them take the time to understand that game developers didn't have to fight to make their launch absolutely perfect like they do today. Digital game refunds and the fact that people can see an entire game practically before launch day makes sales that much more difficult.

Also, am I wrong in having the argument that $60 is not enough today for a AAA game? People complain about $70 being too expensive, but just 3 years ago... $60 then is $70 now.... our dollar has depreciated so much in the last few years that I think $60 isn't lucrative anymore... Companies have to find other ways to make money than just the base price. Some just do it smarter and more consumer-friendly than others.

[burnt matrix]

I’ve had the rare fortune to see E3 from every perspective. I’ve attended as a consumer, a games journalist, a game dev, and as an exhibitor. Although I was never a sales rep I hung out with my friend who was Bethesda’s main vendor in South America and joined him on many a meeting.

Each one of those experiences are wildly different and really hammered home the pecking order of who that show was really for.

[tawdry lion]

I see.

[burnt matrix]

Games shouldn’t cost $60 anymore but publishers are so scared of raising that that they’ve invested into other ways of making money. It’s basically become a sliding scale of what you can afford. A premium game experience can cost you hundreds for example.

[warped saddle]

there's no price where this shit is sustainable. they've reached the point of chasing visual fidelity down an infinite timesink rabbithole

[burnt matrix]

Yeah it’s very silly lol

[warped saddle]

and it's especially with the games industry's weird aversion to using common tooling (although it is getting better)

"new game? time to write a new engine and remake 5 million throwaway assets!"

[burnt matrix]

lol I don’t see that at all, I’ve only worked on consistent studio game engines that see iterative improvements or reliance on a third party engine like UE

[warped saddle]

see also: getting better

[quick sorrel]

Anyone else go from the first E3? Remember Sony's polygon head mascot? 😛

[burnt matrix]

Yeah but there isn’t a weird aversion, that’s just wrong

here in the U.S. there’s middleware for everything

[tawdry lion]

If Nintendo could see the benefit of bringing their IP to PC, and get their heads out of their asses that they need to control their entire chain... and embrace piracy as free advertising instead of shooting down everyone that attempts to spread their IP around..

I mean look at what happened with Sonic Mania... someone was making a better version of Sonic without permission from Sega, and then they hired him to start making them officially.

Maybe there's more to that story that's not as heroic, but still... it's in stark contrast to how Nintendo treats people that use their IP

[warped saddle]

I watched game companies burn down entire multiplayer server infra because 'new game'. like they didn't reuse a single thing

[burnt matrix]

Lol

Well I hope they learned their lesson

[warped saddle]

GOTTA REWRITE IT ALL

[tawdry lion]

lol

[warped saddle]

also my personal favorite was reporting the exact same remote crash in three versions of the quake engine

[burnt matrix]

did they fix it?

[warped saddle]

each time yes

and reintroduced it 2x

quake, q2, q3

[burnt matrix]

I can’t speak to before my time but idtech doesn’t rewrite anything unless it’s not performant or to get rid of super old code

Carmack was really what held that studio back

[warped saddle]

and the bug was 'say anything in chat with a printf format sequence'

insta server crash

[burnt matrix]

He had that mentality you were describing @warped saddle

[burnt matrix]

I didn’t but I started with the second show!

I was a wild eyed kid though lol

[warped saddle]

now you are a wild eyed adult

[burnt matrix]

TRUE

You do make a great point @warped saddle, that stuff sucks and doesn’t help anyone

Other than programmer ego

[warped saddle]

like I think the fact people are gravitating towards a few engines (because it is pain otherwise) helps with all this. then again, GTA6 will have a what? 10 year dev cycle?

[burnt matrix]

I like it when a developer pretends their engine is brand new when in fact is just a customized fork of another engine

[warped saddle]

haha

WE WROTE A MODULE

[burnt matrix]

See early CoD or Elder Scrolls lol

actually Digital Extremes is kinda in that boat too, they have a forked UE except it sucks

I had to work on it, not good

[warped saddle]

those engine devs job is probably just porting over features from vanilla UE constantly now

"why is this team so big?"

[burnt matrix]

I’m glad I have UE experience now though

[warped saddle]

anyways the lesson here is stop complaining on the internet when you can't pet a random dog in a video game

[trim nimbus]

I thought the lesson was "every game needs to reinvent dog petting or it won't justify its $300 price"?

[visual grove]

I’d like to buy the best dog armor dlc for my virtual dog please

[trim nimbus]

To be fair, I see a lot of NIH in “enterprise” software as well. Some of it may be justified, but a lot really isn’t. The fact that it is 2024 and people are still building SNMP pollers from scratch is absurd.

[gloomy hedge]

helllll yeah now thats proper gaming

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f2f6be78-2638-4fe9-a8e8-f28cee840c88/da3ypa9-5cd825d9-8cc9-4b7f-b81c-4d0bb3db05f0.jpg/v1/fill/w_873,h_915,q_70,strp/anarki_from_quake___by_excrem_by_excrem_da3ypa9-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTA3MyIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2YyZjZiZTc4LTI2MzgtNGZlOS1hOGU4LWYyOGNlZTg0MGM4OFwvZGEzeXBhOS01Y2Q4MjVkOS04Y2M5LTRiN2YtYjgxYy00ZDBiYjNkYjA1ZjAuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEwMjQifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.s_Mlq6eqvtJ9ifUhuXfX4frdcmonr8GhnnbbYfql-w8

[leaden dagger]

What killed Sega wasnt just PS2 with DVDs but how easy it was to pirate games for the Dreamcast.

[warped saddle]

people I know that worked at SoA at the time vehemently disagree with that anytime it is brought up. but perhaps that is because they saw rot from within and over weight that

[tawdry lion]

there were a lot of factors to be honest.

[leaden dagger]

True

[tawdry lion]

Composite output on the Dreamcast had ... issues. And the VGA was not exactly the most accessible, plus the accessory wasn't cheap.

[leaden dagger]

Not every game had functionality with it either

[tawdry lion]

the DirectX based games suffered in performance, so any game developers that opted for that led to worse games

marketing decisions were poor.. lacking focus on the games like Sony did for the PS2

PPoor timing ... the released too early in the generation...

Japan and US had tussles on agreeing on how to go about the launch

[leaden dagger]

Yeah

Just... been thinking about dreamcast a lot. especially since that super sega video

[tawdry lion]

Shortly before launch, Sega of America's CEO was fired, due to disagreements on how he was funding marketing and other things. From what we understand, Japan wanted him to lower costs, but he disagreed.

[leaden dagger]

Thinking about that whole era of games from PS1 all the way to beginning to Mid PS3/360

so 95-2008/2010

And just thinking what a waste the failure of the dreamcast was

[tawdry lion]

that's the thing... in the US the Dreamcast launch was actually successful from what I've read in my research

it was Japan that it flunked

[leaden dagger]

Yep

I mean
I'm a person that usually buys consoles several years into its lifecycle

[burnt matrix]

Yeah Dreamcast did great at launch and then it rapidly declined?

[leaden dagger]

and the dreamcast was day one for me

[tawdry lion]

But at the time Japan looks to internal sales to classify it as a commercial success or not

[warped saddle]

I bought a dreamcast on launch by accident

[leaden dagger]

Which was always a foolish endeavor

[tawdry lion]

Considering many people in Japan cancelled orders once the PS2 was announced, many many Dreamcasts littered the shelves for days to come

[gloomy hedge]

I didnt personally pirate dreamcast games until well after the coffin was in the ground, so I dont think that this was as big factor in the US among "normies" at least

[warped saddle]

I dunno, it was cool but the game selection sucked

[burnt matrix]

How do you accidentally buy a game console

[gloomy hedge]

soul calibur

still the best fighting game release pretty much of all time

only game you need

[tawdry lion]

Rez is my Dreamcast favorite

I own a European copy :3

[warped saddle]

I walked into work that morning and a coworker said 'hey, the game store in the mall has dreamcasts, want to go get one/'

so we did

[gloomy hedge]

zakklight zakkkeep zakkboss

[leaden dagger]

I'm a D2, Code Veronica, Illbleed, Shenmue nerd. Also toy Commander

I was... like 9 when I played those

[tawdry lion]

I own a lot of Rez merch

I even own the two vinyl records from launch

[gloomy hedge]

lol where'd my message go did I delete it

[leaden dagger]

PS2 was another day one purchase for me. Because I liked movies and hey. dvd player

same with ps3

[burnt matrix]

I loved Dreamcast until Sega canned it in just over a year after it launched in the U.S. I felt pretty burned as a consumer.

[leaden dagger]

Hell my ps3 was my bluray player up until 2021

[burnt matrix]

It didn’t even last a year and a half lmao

and all the best games were then ported to other systems

[tawdry lion]

The Dreamcast controller was poorly thought out

EA refused to support the Dreamcast so it lost the entire sports support

[burnt matrix]

yeah but those visual concept games were awesome

[tawdry lion]

mmhmm

But yeah A lot of it, you're right Robby, Sega was its own worst enemy

[leaden dagger]

The dreamcast controller is the mitochondrial eve of modern controllers
The 3d controller is the australopithecine

[burnt matrix]

it sucks but it’s also kind of cool, like only Sega could take Sega down

That’s how badass Sega is

[tawdry lion]

lack of emphasis on what things could have actually sold it better, like online gaming. And the internal confusion on what to focus on, hardware or software

[burnt matrix]

listen here Diploma McChemistry

If you’re trying to impress you did good

[tawdry lion]

lmfao

I mean they're not wrong but... still

At least we can all agree Microsoft did no better with the Duke

[burnt matrix]

The Duke is so stupid I love it

[tawdry lion]

yeah xD

I remember as a kid at a kiosk in Wal-mart... even then I just knew something was off

[leaden dagger]

Saturn 3d>Dreamcast
Dreamcast is a specific and deliberate influence on Xbox's early controller design (including VMU and controller screens)
Leading to the duke
The duke leads to the controller S
The 360 controller is an evolution on that (with the shoulder buttons replacing black and white being based on the gamecube z button)
Which is the basis for basically all modern controller layouts other than Dualshock/Sense

[burnt matrix]

It made it feel more adult, like these big man controllers are for adults only

[tawdry lion]

I think they had a Blinx demo on

[topaz mica]

the duke is legendary

[leaden dagger]

Apparently the Duke's size happened because a japanese company had a patent for layered/stacked pcbs and was so zenophobic that they refused to license it out to Microsoft, which forced the entire controller to be on a single board

And when they got the patent finally the S was only originally for Japan

until americans complained about not getting access so much that they started importing

and microsoft made the S available to the west

That's what I've been told at least

I always had big hands so the Duke was actually mostly okay for me

The biggest fucking problem for me were the rounded jewel shaped buttons that ended up being an absofuckinglutely horrible pain for action games

But I miss big controllers lol

But smaller controllers have their advantages, like how I can do item swapping mid combat in souls games on my dualsense comfortably because I can reach the buttons with my index or thumb while fighting with my ring and pinky on the triggers lol

I'm rambling I'll stop

[humble epoch]

Dreamcast is weird to me because it seemed like everyone I knew had one and loved it and then within like six months of the ps2 being out no one even mentioned the Dreamcast again

[tawdry lion]

Needed a slight adjustment

[leaden dagger]

Because outside of a few exclusives and EA screwing them there just werent that many games to justify the purchase, especially when the PS2 just fucking exploded out of the gate with that stuff

It had, at least until gamecube

the best versions of RE2, 3, Dino Crisis, Alone in the Dark, etc

Also Backwards compatibility

which was really not possible with the saturn but yeah the ability to just buy a PS2 and play PS1 games on it was big

[warped saddle]

the sheer momentum of sony coming off the ps1 can't be ignored either. of course people were going to buy a ps2, their ps1s were awesome.

also ssx

[leaden dagger]

you mean ssx tricky

😛

[burnt matrix]

PS1 da GOAT and the PS2 was fully backwards compatible

[gloomy hedge]

bif naked - " SSX? I thought it was S E X "

[thorn pagoda]

sony tapped a whole other market outside gaming at the time with wipeout and stuff

a lot of peoples first ever console was psx

[humble epoch]

Yeah my uncle got a psx just for Gran Tourismo and the Tomb Raider series. I can’t recall him ever playing games before or after that.

[thorn pagoda]

at least here in the uk the way they marketed it just kinda entirely sidestepped what nintendo and sega was doing

they had demo pods in nightclubs and features in FHM

[gloomy hedge]

yep psx sports games were also very popular like fifa became HUGE on psx

in the UK you had a PSX if you had a heart and a brain

you just had one

then stuff like gran turismo, metal gear, and colin mcrae, sealed the deal

like "the more serious" games

n64 was the console you got your kids

for the childrens games

[fresh gale]

Used to play Ps1 FIFA in the GPO nightclub in Galway as recently as 2002. Think I got sick over the console stand one night too. Yep, PSX is for “adults”

[naive whale]

left a present in #share-media

Die Hard core v mednafen

[tiny quartz]

I managed a video game store when the PS1 launched. I owned a store when the PS2 launched. I was at CES in '95 when the PS1 was shown off for the first time.

We couldn't get a saturn because no one could. We couldn't get a PS1 because they sold out everywhere all the time. One was unobtainable, one was selling every unit as soon as it hit the loading docks.

I went hard on the Dreamcast, sold a shit ton on launch. But the larger public was 'wait and see'. They heard DVD and cooked on the Dreamcast. The DC ads were alienating. "it's thinking" didn't help anyone.

And when anyone put Sega really next to RRV, they didn't buy the low framerate game. Dreamcast couldn't get EA, and the 2k games were better but landed the name recognition.

I bought a saturn from toys r us with store money, head office was outraged. I rented it out for 4x the normal price and paid for it in a month. Head office gave me free reign after that. 😊

[burnt matrix]

@tiny quartz I enjoyed your story. It’s really cool seeing the perspective from boots on the ground.

[warped saddle]

yeah, sony convinced a lot of people to just wait

[tiny quartz]

I remember ridge racer at CES. It was amazing. The PS1 controller seemed so small. Toshinden didn't impress me, compared to VF2, but it caught the eye of the easily swayed by graphics croud. The saturn was the gamer's machine and they just couldn't shake that hardcore image, despite what the Genesis had done.

And that PS1 momentum was possible to break with the transition to PS2, but Sega didn't have the money to do it right. Sony was all mystique and cool. Remember the big PR fluff about the PS2 being too powerful to ship to some countries?

And for the longest time all dreemacast had to offer was Soul Calibur. It sold so, so many units in its own. Namco gave the Dreamcast a chance to last as long as it did.

[burnt matrix]

I bought the Dreamcast launch day because of Sonic Adventure and Soul Calibur, I wasn’t disappointed.

The online gaming aspect also influenced me too.

[lofty spire]

it's funny that Namco were the ones to keep the Dreamcast afloat for a while considering that Namco was Sega's biggest rival in the arcade

[tiny quartz]

Sonic adventure was awful, but there wasn't anything better to point to at the time. Buggy and bad cameras. I played the shit out of it when it came out, and even I couldn't say it was great. And the rest of the library? Yikes. Blue stinger. Armada. The load times on hydro thunder!

Namco and Sega were good friends. Old Nakamura went to Nintendo and announced they were supporting the mega drive, because Nintendo was mean. Didn't work, but they had history there.

[thorn pagoda]

the launch games were pretty rough overall but it wasn't that long until the gems started landing

i remember code veronica felt like a big turning point

[tiny quartz]

It was great for sure. It's another reason the dc had any chance at all.

But it was a long dry start for Sega. The windows CE label didn't help it either. The games that were made that way were faster to market but not really worth the trade-off. And in nerd circles it was a strong tick against.

And then, Mario 64. That took most of segas customer pool away. There was not room for 3 players. Sega's fans were unlike the previous gen. There's a direct. Line between Sega CD weirdos and 3DO weirdos. But the Dreamcast had at least the awareness with the general public. Everyone knew about it. They just wanted it less.

Anyway yeah I was there. I was neck deep in all of this. 😊

[warped saddle]

you can only play so much soul calibur and trickstyle

[gloomy hedge]

fuckin trickstyle

lets go lmao

that game was so trash

I wanted it to be tony hawk and it was not

it truly was not

[high bramble]

I pre-ordered Final Fantasy VII back then. When I went to pick it up, that was the day I bought my first PlayStation. That was the only reason I bought one. I later discovered so many other reasons why I was glad I bought it.

[gloomy hedge]

I actually never had a playstation

was too poor at the time but once I got older I was able to get a job and afford, first a dreamcast and then a ps2 thereafter

the comedy is taht I WAS able to afford a saturn during ps1/n64 days lol

it was used from blockbuster

[high bramble]

I was poor because I kept buying new consoles and games. 😄

[gloomy hedge]

lol

[pearl harbor]

I got the money for my N64 and Saturn by selling my 3DO back in the day.

[high bramble]

I still can't believe I spent $700 on that thing. I had fun with it, but still...

[pearl harbor]

And I got my 3DO because I was spoiled rotten.

[high bramble]

People complained about the cost of the PlayStation 3 when it was first released.
That was cute... 🤣

[pearl harbor]

They have no idea what pain was!

I love my 3DO too. Genuinely wish I never sold it.

[high bramble]

I don't regret the purchase, because there were some really good games... but looking back, it wasn't the wisest decision I ever made.
I just convinced myself that I had to have it right then... but if I had waited for the price to keep coming down, I probably never would have bought one.

Because by that time, the writing was on the wall.

After a year, these things were almost 75-80% off. Couldn't give them away.
Reminded me of going to Toys R Us and seeing a huge pyramid of 32X boxes that they were desperately trying to move.
$40 each, plus 5 free games!
...and I still didn't buy one.

[quick sorrel]

The PS/SS/N64/NGCDZ gen was when I was working full-time in a proper job so it was the first time that I had all the consoles in a generation without having to share them with siblings and cousins. It felt very good as I knew no one was going to scratch up my games anymore.

Or never return a cartridge due to moving and lending shite.

[hearty carbon]

My mom worked at a pawn shop that generation and I amassed a huge collection of games, cd's, vhs, and dvd's on the cheap.

I'd just come sit down at her work with my stoner friends and pick through their CD and VHS crates for good stuff.

[gilded inlet]

My dc is just for sega marine/bass fishing these days

[tawdry lion]

So many people talk about tricky but SSX 3 ... The soundtrack and the gameplay was so good

[thorn pagoda]

3 really fleshed out the world and stuff too, felt more like a place, i really liked it

its crazy to me they just kinda, stopped making them at that point, i thought that series would live forever

[tawdry lion]

It was so cool to see the one on PS3

Sadly I was hacked for a time during that era so I couldn't play online much...

Wish I had

[leaden dagger]

Most sports games just died after ps3/360 era

[upper dust]

Yeah too much focus on competition and making it look real. The period of mainstream arcade sports was awesome.

[leaden dagger]

I think the lack of imagination/obsession with hyper realism in visual design going from 360 onward is a real problem

Not only is shit getting too fucking expensive it's taking too long to make

[burnt matrix]

Unfortunately that’s what sells

It’s not lack of imagination it’s that all y’all gobble that stuff up and demand more

From consumers to journalists and also vendors. Thats what the public wants.

But it’s also not exactly true either because there’s plenty of games that sell gangbusters which look like cartoons.

Best selling games of this gen are all Nintendo.

[upper dust]

Yeah it's hard to get excited about games just for newness sake today. I doubt people cared about realism when they played NFL Blitz. It was just new and 3D. Plus for sports games it's like, "where do we go from here?" Add a new slam dunk animation? Only thing you can do is make it look/play more real for sports fans, which alienates the more eclectic player (to which we're more likely to just play the older games anyway)

There's a little bit of life for extreme sports at least with Steep, Riders Republic, Session, and Shredders

[burnt matrix]

I think the game industry needs to mature a bit more to understand graphical fidelity is not the end all be all

Because we sure waste a lot of resources to make pretty pictures instead of pouring that into better design and systems

[gloomy hedge]

they made a couple more

the 2012 game wasnt that bad actually

[burnt matrix]

I interviewed someone from Naughty Dog, a designer, and it was just depressing listening to him talk about his work

[gloomy hedge]

on tour was a bit weird

[lusty rapids]

okay but how about just make this year's CoD and throw in some more puddles or whatever to make graphics cards die

[gloomy hedge]

Blur was whack

[leaden dagger]

I mean to be fair, Pokemon is a bigger franchise than basically everything on earth and that's distinctly not realistic

[burnt matrix]

It’s also distinctly not performant either huehuehuehue

[leaden dagger]

LOL

[burnt matrix]

Also my kids loved it and didn’t give a shit and now I question myself LOL

[burnt matrix]

I mean it works!

[lusty rapids]

it sells units that's for sure

[leaden dagger]

But really I get it, I just by the virtuse of my jobs (paw and game dev) I actually have never done hyperrealism in any projects I've worked on, lest you count the various live action shorts I worked on

So I don't get hyper realism as a consumer draw

and it's proving to actually be less successful than people realize

if people want to bring up how most of sony's games are actually underperforming due to dev cost

[lusty rapids]

I want the new Astro Bot to do so well

unrealistic 3d platforming

just thinkin of Sony projects

[leaden dagger]

I just want like... to go do a higher fidelity version of whatever we were doing at the end of the ps2/gamecube/360 era

beyond good and evil

[burnt matrix]

What’s paw and game dev

If you don’t mind me asking

[lusty rapids]

two different things I'd imagine

[leaden dagger]

I work on paw patrol and I work on an unannounced game

[burnt matrix]

Oh yeah!!

I told my kids I knew you and they thought it was cool

[lusty rapids]

is the unannounced game Call of Duty: Paw

[leaden dagger]

can't talk about it yet lol

The thing that bothers me is that larger game studios barely try to do something visually interesting, and I bet you its because the cost is so high for development

Like that Immortals of Aveum game

a game about fucking combat wizards

looks like box art from a graphics card from 2005

from art design standpoint

What the fuck was up with that

and it failed too

as a game I heard it was okay

but like... Forspoken, DD2 (a game I love btw), cod, (my brain isn't working cause I am typing this while doing storyboard revisions and can't come up with better examples)

They're boring

hell I was fucking ecstatic at the release of the new prince of persia because it was stylized. And Beyond Good and Evil HD

er anniversary?

[burnt matrix]

100% brother

[upper dust]

Yeah too many avenues to play stuff, which diludes interest. When everyone had a PS2 they got to experiment, cause what else are going to play?

Plus there were no free forever games then

[leaden dagger]

I mean nowadays every console save switch is an x86 platform so basically you're just picking your flavor of game console

[gloomy hedge]

I dont think any of that matters tbh

because game makers are going to make ps1 style games if they want to

thats where the indie space is going

[burnt matrix]

Yeah indies rock

[gloomy hedge]

the architecture being normalized just allows for more devs to get in

yes we lose a bit of creativity, I get that

[leaden dagger]

eh, they're making games that look like ps1 games. They play, for the most part, like garbage

[gloomy hedge]

what do you mean exactly?

[upper dust]

It's just harder for them to hit the zeitgeist

[leaden dagger]

I went through about a hundred ps1 style games a few months ago, most of them are just slow walking sim horror games

with barely any art direction

[gloomy hedge]

of course if you shoot in the dark you'll get garbage, thats how it is with any indie space

thats the same even with "16 bit retro" art

you just need a good dev to want to do it, and they'll be able to do it

and then they'll be able to have it on all the consoles

which is the point im making

it wont be stuck on one console, since its on the same architecture as everything basically

[leaden dagger]

I think you're being a tad idealistic personally

[gloomy hedge]

do you actually want architecture to differ?

[leaden dagger]

No

[gloomy hedge]

oh

thats all im saying

my point was simply that x86 being normalized is a good thing

and more power is also a good thing

[leaden dagger]

that's not what I'm saying
I'm saying don't expect most retro throwback games to actually be good
The style is done because its cheap and quick

[gloomy hedge]

oh why would I do that

why would anyone expect droves of those games to be good

there's gonna be 1 or 2 good games by good developers who " get it ", max

thats how any indie space is, imo

for every hollow knight or blasphemous there is 5000 crap metroidvanias

I think I may have lost the thread of conversation so I will stop here 🙂

[leaden dagger]

Yeah I was just talking about stylization and then copy save mentioned platforms diluting interest because too many options and I said that's not really important anymore because outside of switch its all essentially the same machine with different coats of paint

and that's how the wires got crossed

it's all good

oh, side note, has there been any update from srg (not core, just like evidence he's okay)? It's been a couple weeks

[mortal mist]

I saw nothing, heard nothing

[upper dust]

So with all the sports talk, what are the Saturn exclusive sports games worth checking out. I'm mostly familiar with DecAthelete, big no clue on mainstream or extreme sports

[burnt matrix]

World Series Baseball ‘98 is great

Worldwide Soccer ‘98 also very good

Winter Athlete is the sequel to DecAthelete

You got classics like NBA Jam too

There are a few other sports games too that are worth checking out but there are better options on the PS1 imo

Plenty of great racing games too if you want to bundle them under sports

[upper dust]

Cool thanks - sure, beyond Daytona, Virtua Racing, and Sega Rally not sure in terms of "realistic" racing stuff

[minor cipher]

Sega Touring Car Championship is amazing but you need to play with the 3D pad and it's brutally unforgiving

a bit niche, definitely has a learning curve, but hugely rewarding

[gloomy hedge]

is 3 dirty dwarves considered sports

[humble epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/allow-community-sombrero-ill-allow-it-gif-10817586

[burnt matrix]

Personally I'm also a big fan of:

• Manx TT SuperBike
• Drift King - Shutokou Battle '97 (Translated)
• Steep Slope Sliders

You also have Highway 2000, and High Velocity Mountain Challenge, and Touge King the Spirits 2 (Japan) but I liked Drift King most of all for the Japanese style street race games

Also for wrestling they translated Fire Pro Gaiden - Blazing Tornado

[upper dust]

Awesome!

[mossy crystal]

It's because it was easy to get pirated CDs, so as long as your psx was modified which can be done by the abundance by psx modding shops of which there was an abundance back in the day.

[hearty marten]

If only they’d gone with cartridges, they could have really cut down on piracy

[tiny flare]

certainly would have cut down on load times at least

[plush pelican]

is it a recent translation? I might have one in my collection already but I would rather have a more up to date one.

[river wing]

According to the MAME database, the Saturn vertical sync rate is 59.764802 Hz.
Do you know if it's always the same, or does it vary with the different video modes that the console supports?

[gloomy hedge]

sometimes its 59.764801

this is a joke

but uh oh my saturn its always the same no matter what game I pick unless I pick a PAL game

im not sure how it handles that, I do have one pal game I play cuz it doesnt work on the fenrir otherwise which is die hard trilogy, could bring that up if you want

but im not gonna get 4 thousand decimal places lol

retrotink will prob give at least one decimal tho

[river wing]

Well, I need several decimals since I'm trying to replicate the exact refresh rate

[humble epoch]

How is the SotN Ultimate hack compared to the PS1 original?

[limber patio]

Mega lame

Tries to be the ps1 game so at that point just play the ps1 version

Takes out all the quirks that makes the saturn version unique

No ty

[tawdry lion]

Missing the iconic voices tbh

[pearl harbor]

If you're only interested in playing the main Alucard campaign, then the PS1 version will always be the one to play.

[limber patio]

Yeah, saturn is good for the unique Maria mode

[pearl harbor]

The Saturn version is nice for having a unique Maria mode.

[tawdry lion]

I've read it's not recommended for new players though

[limber patio]

Yup

It's not

Beat og ps1, go on saturn and enjoy Maria mode

[pearl harbor]

The extra areas aren't exactly great, but it's interesting as a play through for people who have already played the PS1 version a bunch of times.

[limber patio]

^

[tawdry lion]

I've been looking to play SotN for the first time myself. Did a little research. People still say to play the PS1 as a first timer. Saturn may have more content but it's also missing a lot of what made the one people grew up with shine.

[lofty spire]

yeah that's how i see Saturn SotN, a weird thing to play through when you finish PS1 SotN

[limber patio]

It's still a good game either version

[lofty spire]

Saturn SotN is the dessert you eat when you've had your main course in PS1

[tawdry lion]

Yeah

That was the consensus I found

[limber patio]

I prefer the ps1 retranslation anyway

[pearl harbor]

Honestly, my biggest issue with the Saturn version of the game is the jank pixel scaling, which makes all the in-game artwork look really off.

[trim nimbus]

Yeah, if they could fix resolution issues the Saturn version would be great

But when your platform is more powerful than the psx but the company doesn’t want to pay money for proper hd assets, you get stuck with upscaled psx garbage 🤡

[quick sorrel]

Saturn? Higher than PS1 but HD?

[humble epoch]

Thanks. Started it up on the PlayStation core. The voice acting is so bad.

[serene thunder]

Didn't they do a hack that fixed some of the graphical issues?

[scarlet goblet]

It fixed just about everything except the scaling.

Because that's pretty much unfixable.

[serene thunder]

alas

[burnt matrix]

I found an obvious visual bug yesterday while playing Saturn games and now I can’t remember what game arrrrgghhh

[clear condor]

Sega Rally sometimes loses engine sound between races for me, but I might just have loser RAM

[pearl harbor]

It was Magic Knight Rayearth right? The characters looked like fat babies.

[burnt matrix]

no it was a real issue! Like some giant character portrait was talking and it was flashing rapidly with a background behind her

to be fair I don't know if its the same on real hardware

but it looked so broken it seemed safe to assume it wasn't

[pearl harbor]

Robby just admitted that fat babies aren't a real issue!!

The mask came off!

I'm trying to think of games that had character portraits that animated.

Maybe a Psikyo shmup?

[burnt matrix]

I’ll have to go through my game list. I didn’t report it yesterday because I didn’t have my keyboard to take a screen grab

[trim nimbus]

was robby playing that R18 shooter?

“I..uh..forgot what I was playing”

Steam Hearts is the name you were looking for 😉

[burnt matrix]

LOL but you were close

Game Tengoku!

[safe trail]

I thought that was a normal situation

[burnt matrix]

@pearl harbor Game Tengoku - The Game Paradise!

[safe trail]

(most babies are fat...)

[pearl harbor]

Not far off!

I need to try the Saturn version of that game. I have the Switch port, but it has some noticable input lag.

[sudden tusk]

@burnt matrix and EVERYONE POST PICTURES OF YOUR FAVORITE FAT BABY GAMES!

[hearty carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-slayer-cacodemon-demon-cute-gif-7070685866677885551

[gloomy hedge]

Nice!

[clear condor]

After getting that time, I baaaaaarely won Lakeside for the first time

but C's get degrees, and my 1'15 got me the Lancia Stratos

[gloomy hedge]

that thing is such a pain lol

yeah I got there like 3 times before clearing

and yeah congrats on the stratos!

I bet you crushed my time

my lakeside clear time was actually slower than another tiem when I failed lmao

go figure

there ya go

comedy

you woulda beat my other time anyways tho

ggs mr. MT

[clear condor]

🤝 Maybe 3:26 someday

[sudden tusk]

That classic working designs spot on localization !

[gloomy hedge]

if these bitches werent bouncing me around the road I'd have 3:20

fuckin lake especially lol

[clear condor]

Lake doesn't count for the board, but I getchu

[plush pelican]

https://youtu.be/iiEIp3uVkc8

[pearl harbor]

The OG fat baby game!

[next bronze]

and his name is officially Thrasher Damnd now.

[visual grove]

PlayStation probably wins the fat baby category since it has a Dr Slump game and Toriyama invented fat babies

[hardy lodge]

No new saturn core in almost a month 😦

[gloomy hedge]

Oh ! It doesn't? Hahaha 🤣

[stoic sage]

I wonder if is everything okay with Sergiy

[visual grove]

Saturn is in pretty good shape right? Maybe he is going to wrap up Battletoads!

Oh wait Saturn still needs 480i right?

[mortal mist]

Yes , he is ok

He asks questions on Github

I assume this proves that he is ok 😉

[ripe valley]

You could also take some time off.

[mortal mist]

everyone needs a break

[stoic sage]

Thanks. Glad to know that!

[tawdry lion]

and a kitkat

[mortal mist]

Ofc 😂

[hardy lodge]

Good to know.

[mortal mist]

@wise brook magic! Now I have flicker in Grandia also on de10 nano 🤣

[drowsy hull]

you are welcome

[burnt matrix]

Where does the flicker happen?

Also I’m too embarrassed to write a bug for flickering in Game Tengoku. You see it when you select the middle option in the main menu. I think it’s an arrange mode, anyways you see a character talk and it’s flashing rapidly.

[burnt matrix]

Oh ok, right in the intro. Easy to reproduce.

[river wing]

Wasn't that fixed like several times already?

[mortal mist]

yes it should be fixed , but many people still have the problem

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/210

I don't know where this problem comes from

I haven't had this probm so far, today I launched the game and I also experience flickering

maybe my de10 nano is getting old 😉

[lofty spire]

my de10 nano is barely a year old and i see flickering in Grandia lol

[mortal mist]

Your de10 is too young , that's why it flickers 😛

[lofty spire]

lmao

[ripe valley]

I will test it with newer DE10s next week as I need to rebuild my MiSTer systems.

[river wing]

Well, just tested my MiSTer setup (RetroCastle memory module) and it doesn't flicker at all.

[mortal mist]

Yes on my other two de10 also does not flicker , which does not mean that the problem does not exist

[ancient surge]

Are we sure the Grandia thing is not the English patching messing up the core?

[drowsy hull]

yes

[mortal mist]

I only test the Japanese version

[burnt matrix]

I only test the PS1 version

[lofty spire]

i used the English patch for Grandia on a real Saturn via Satiator and no flickering

[pulsar mantle]

About to experience SNAC for the first time, courtesy of MisterAddons. Ready for 3D pad shenanigans.

[hearty marten]

Your food is ready 😉

[lofty spire]

i LOVE being able to use old controllers on my MiSTer. definitely a good accessory for it

[pulsar mantle]

I asked DoorDash to add MiSTerAddons to their system but they ignored me 😦

[pearl harbor]

Time for some proper Sega Rally action!

[pulsar mantle]

I already have a slew of USB adapters (I'm on HDMI), but with the 3D Pad, SNAC is neccessary! At least when I eventually do creep into CRT territory, I'll be truly ready. But yes, OEM pads or nothing for me regardless.

[lofty spire]

world of difference to play NiGHTS on mister with my USB Saturn pad vs my 3D pad via SNAX

[pulsar mantle]

Truly! I am so very ready. Hopefully the MiSTer/Saturn core eventually can support USB controllers with this, but for right now, SNAC time.

[pearl harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/wounds-snack-time-snack-time-heals-all-wounds-eating-hungry-gif-15154071

[lofty spire]

i really need to give Sega Rally a spin. not the biggest fan of racing games but it looks real cool

[clear condor]

It's a nice racing game for people who don't really like racing games

[paper tiger]

the idea of original controllers is nice..but I don't like the idea of cables dangling out and plugging/unplugging them, etc.

seems like a hassle! :p

[lofty spire]

i have a decent combination of OG controllers and USB

for some consoles it's whatever but for others like N64 and Saturn, i NEED the OG controllers lmao

playing an N64 game with a 360 controller feels... wrong

[paper tiger]

true.. kinda like playing them on the switch. It's horrible

I can see needing an N64 controller

[lofty spire]

mapping a Saturn's controls to anything not a Saturn controller also feels weird

[paper tiger]

but on that front.. on my regular N64 consoles, I got an N64 Everdrive some time ago, got it going through a retrotink 5x Pro.. and then I never play it.

PS5 pad wouldn't work out too bad for Saturn games I would think

unless you're talking the 360 pad

[lofty spire]

eh, the 6 face buttons on the Saturn controller make most controllers not up to the task from my experience

yeah i could map some buttons to L1 and R1 but it feels weird lol

[paper tiger]

speaking of Saturn controllers.. oh no, is the retro-bit one no longer sold on Amazon?

i swear I just bought one a year ago or something

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P2BS42K/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

[lofty spire]

i actually use a retro-bit USB saturn controller for the most part but i have an OG Japanese 3D controller for SNAX

[paper tiger]

yep..just in Sept!

[lofty spire]

originally i got a Saturn and a region bypassing cart but then learned that Saturn games... are expensive lmao

[paper tiger]

well that sucks.. I should have bought 2

[pulsar mantle]

The Retro-bit Saturn pads would be great if the D-pad was a little stronger. The mould isn't 1:1 with OEM, and the plastic cross inside is significantly weaker. It's such a shame, and it's probably not a deal breaker for most people, but the Saturn pad is my all time fave, so I need that D-pad to be just so.

Also lacks microswitched shoulder buttons. Which isn't as egregious, but still. I hope for the USB replica of my dreams (that will stay in print, SLS USB pads from the mid 2000s!!!).

[rich violet]

I like the M30

[pulsar mantle]

I think the M30 is probably the best solution currently still on the market. It's different, but pretty nice if you don't wanna deal with cables/USB adapters/SNAC.

I have no problem dealing with wires. Wired or die.

[lofty spire]

i actually use my retro-bit USB Saturn controller as a Genesis controller on mister lol

[pulsar mantle]

I have been using 3 button/6 button MD pads since I got my MiSTer, but I kinda wanna use my Saturn USB adapter on the MD core sometime. They are the true evolution of those pads, for sure.

[lofty spire]

speaking of evolution of controllers, i recently looked at my 3D Saturn controller, and my OG Dreamcast controller and went "wait a sec..."

[pulsar mantle]

Love the Dreamcast, but I'm lowkey mad they didn't stick to 6 buttons ala the 3D Pad. Microsoft may have stuck with it, and well. You know.

[rich violet]

The M30 works well wired (USB) too

[lofty spire]

and i have a Japanese 3D Saturn pad so it looks even more like a prototype Dreamcast controller lol

[ancient surge]

I figured SEGA just recycled the mold used for the SEGA Saturn 3D controller for the Dreamcast controller.

They share a lot of similarities with each other that it's possible.

[pulsar mantle]

Oh, undoubtedly. Plus that White Model 2 Saturn finish is so awesome. Mad respect for 8bitdo for making it tbh.

[lofty spire]

no idea why sega moved the wire from 3D Saturn pad to Dreamcast from the top to the bottom of the controller what the heck lmao

[paper tiger]

i have a few original saturn pads, and a NIB 3D controller which came with Nights (and I never played).. but I like to use the retro-bit just because it's newer and probably less prone to wearing out as quickly ;p

[pulsar mantle]

OEM Saturn D-pads remain more reliable I’ve found, but maybe that’s improved 🤷‍♂️

[ancient surge]

Probably didn't want the wire to get in the way of the VMU slot.

[burnt matrix]

Ok no glitching for me on Saturn Grandia intro.

[drowsy hull]

now proof that it works without issues by completing it

[gloomy hedge]

haha it isnt

I destroyed so many retrobits

its the same issue as an old saturn pad, but worse

membrane, but the retrobits triggers arent well bolstered, and sometimes their triggers stick too

the M30 is the most reliable and best "Quality Control" saturn style pad ive found thus far

those membranes will go too, because no membrane is safe but so far its the top of the pile

usable triggers helps too lol

membrane across the saturn, the m30 and the retrobit are also not interchangeable

fun times all around

still the best dpad in video games by a light year

[paper tiger]

well alternatively I guess i assumed it'd be easily replacable with another order on Amazon.. but I guess not :p

[pulsar mantle]

My SNAC adapter came in and I had a great time besting my high scores in NiGHTS into Dreams. That game NEEDS the 3D Pad, I got some crazy high scores, with room for improvement.

[pearl harbor]

That's insane ||in the membrane! ||

[gloomy hedge]

I think its insane || in the 🧠 ||

[hearty carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-greenthumb-greenthumb-b-real-cypress-hill-doctor-gif-15523894

[topaz mica]

I feel this way about any console. I have to use system specific pads or it drives me nuts hah

[green swift]

This is one of the main reasons I’ve only played a total of maybe 2hrs of the SNES core. Been waiting on something like the Krikzz Joyzz but for SNES. The 8bitdo pads feel off, bad diagonals and stiff membranes. I haven’t tried their mod kit but with SNES’s baked in lag plus BT lag that’s typical of 8bitdo I’ve been holding out for something better.

[drowsy hull]

Sounds like someone was either rich or never player2

[topaz mica]

I've had good success with their mod kits and I find I'm not as sensitive to BT lag. But I agree, 8bitdo snes pad has stiff membranes...I should throw some originals in mine

[burnt matrix]

@unkempt kelp sells replacement boards that are drop-in with zero lag - https://misteraddons.com/products/reflex-ctrl

I have his SNES + Saturn boards and they’re fantastic. For visibility he’s a friend and sent those to me to test but I wouldn’t be recommending them if they weren’t great.

[gloomy hedge]

I use 8bitdo gbros adapter and a snes classic pad (the nintendo mini console)
unfortunately the NSO Snes pad is a bit laggy, the NSO gear is whack, its good in a pinch for like modern games but nothing requiring precise timing or reactions, dpad is good tho

[unkempt kelp]

If only someone would work on improved SNES membranes. and drop-in replacement PCBs haha.

[gloomy hedge]

I think I might know a guy

[lofty spire]

for me it has to be relatively close. for instance, i use the 8bitdo Turbografx controller for the NES lol

[burnt matrix]

LOL same

Built-in turbo buttons too, it’s awesome!

[lofty spire]

very useful for Mega Man in particular lol

[gloomy hedge]

the porkchop express is the only train we take

[pearl harbor]

The porkchop express saved my MiSTer earlier this year!

[sick python]

Special edition Porkchop express train controller confirmed???? Easy @burnt matrix ...easy...

[burnt matrix]

I have that controller too lol

[sick python]

I want to see you beat Tyson in punch out with that.

[primal osprey]

Is this real?

[burnt matrix]

It’s a real Switch train controller sold in Japan but he photoshopped the MisterAddons logo on it

[sick python]

It should be. But no.

[primal osprey]

Lol - fun, but I'd be careful with all that. 99% certain that trademark

[sick python]

The logos?

[primal osprey]

Believe so - but even if not I legit thought that was something in the works lol.

[gloomy hedge]

give it

[sick python]

Eh it's all in good fun. If he made it, I'd buy it.

[unkempt kelp]

Misterdolch always has my permission to use my logo for fun memes and design concepts.

[trim nimbus]

Where is the Steel Battalion Mister Addons concept?

[gloomy hedge]

there I fixed it

[plush pelican]

what am I looking at? a thruster and rudder?

[trim nimbus]

the future

[gloomy hedge]

I dunno let's go to MisterBadons.com and get one

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/george-costanza-wallet-money-seinfeld-gif-8303798

[gloomy hedge]

Lmao

[slate merlin]

MisterAbaddons.com

[pearl harbor]

Muh boi Abobo.

[serene thunder]

I like the DD fighting game for Neo Geo
so jank
A-bobo wiiin

[plush jetty]

@burnt matrix Digs those proportions

[burnt matrix]

When I grow up I want to be Abobo

[upper dust]

wow - Abobo's Big Adventure is still playable

[serene thunder]

Robobobo!

[prisma wraith]

downloaded a standalone version of this a long time ago also. its so well made lol

[violet wolf]

Wait there's a snac adapter for saturn? Does that mean the gun is working? Or can the hardware be done before the core is done?

[mortal mist]

I bought two new cards one is a SanDisk Extreme 256gb and the other is a Kioxia Exercia 256gb. On the SanDisk in Grandia there is flickering , on the Kioxia card there is none. I checked 5 times each. On each card is the same content 1:1.

Rather these observations will not help in any way , but it is strange to me that the core behaves differently with these two sd cards.

[ripe valley]

Different reading speeds ?

[mortal mist]

Yes , but how can this affect the flickering of textures ?

[radiant karma]

CDs stream textures on the fly on many games, don't they?

[radiant karma]

Maybe there is a bug in the CD implementation?

[burnt matrix]

What are the read speeds of each card?

[radiant karma]

Even accounting for different speeds, 2X speed CDs transfer speed only at 300 KB/s, even the slowest card should be able to match that. Maybe has something to do with the implementation of the CD data cache? Just guessing really. Maybe worth a report to GitHub. Will do some tests on my different cards, my main build does flicker.

[quick sorrel]

Are there even cheap cards or usb sticks that are slower than a 2x CD drive from 30 years ago?

yeah, what he said 😉

[trail river]

Sega Rally no longer plays any music during the races for me since the last few updates. It used to work flawlessly. Am I the only one this happened to?

[burnt matrix]

Different read speeds are the only thing I can think of in terms of differences between cards.

[thorn pagoda]

its not the transfer speeds that get you it's the random access times

[burnt matrix]

Ah yeah, I meant that too

I have an A2 rated card, don’t see flickering. Not sure if connected.

[thorn pagoda]

but also a texture thats already on screen should be in ram so idk why it would keep flickering

possibly something goes wrong while its being loaded and ends up persistent

[burnt matrix]

Good point

[mortal mist]

For me it works ok

I play SR frequently

[trail river]

I just tested the Japanese version and that still has the music, but the US version doesn't. Really weird because it used to work without any issues

[radiant karma]

I lost music in many of my games as you did. Downloading new chds instead of bin/cue worked for me.

[trail river]

That could be it. I'll try downloading the chd

[burnt matrix]

i make my own chds using some experimental settings because i am l337 h4x0r

[mortal mist]

I only use bin/cue zero problems with music in games

[radiant karma]

It's not CHDs that solves the problem it is just a different dump that works. You could try bin/cue also, but I went for CHD as I wanted to try them.

[burnt matrix]

ive never had problems with chd on saturn core

[trail river]

Re-downloading solved the problem. I hope this doesn't mean my SD card is dying

[marsh warren]

so glad to see someone else report that "issue", going from mister stable 2401?? to whatever the newest one loses background music in almost all of my games. i think there was an unstable or two near the beginning of march that tweaks how tracks are read and that probably has a lot to do with it. probably just going to update what i need to with new dumps knowing this now

[small gust]

Interesting, unfortunately I don't have a spare sd card of a different model to test if the flicker will or won't happen on another sd-card.

However, this card is what's in my MiSTer, and it does experience the flicker.

[wise brook]

class A2 and all those other markers usually mean top tier

i based my purchase on lowest ram noise lol

[pulsar mantle]

I had issues with red book audio when I first got into the Saturn core, replacing all my old BIN and CUES with CHDs solved all my issues. I’d say updating ROMs should be your first port of call for troubleshooting that.

[burnt matrix]

That’s interesting

I only have a 512mb sd card so I’ve only used chd lol

[small gust]

I have also only used CHDs with the saturn core, but if I recall correctly the same issue has persisted with bin/cue as well for others.

[hearty marten]

I use CHDs because Robby told me to

And I only have a 512GB ssd plugged in, so I don’t have a lot of space

[visual grove]

If Robby told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?

[mortal mist]

hmmm, yes ? 🫡

[strong zephyr]

Can it be a rocket jump?

[mortal mist]

if Robby allows

[radiant karma]

I tested 3 micro sd cards with grandia, 400gb sandisk ultra, 64gb sandisk ultra, and 8gb microsd that came with my mister. All 3 exhibit flickering textures at the starting cutscene.

[south valley]

Hi guys! I'm new! Would you help me, please? Where can I dowload Saturn's last core?

[mortal mist]

Update all

[south valley]

Just this!? Thank you!

[mortal mist]

Yes , there is no newer core

[gloomy hedge]

Only if Robby did it with me so I could show him how a real cliff jumper does it

[pearl harbor]

No lightgun support yet. Even with SNAC. But SNAC does work with the 3D controller, and is currently the only way to use the analog triggers on that controller.

[burnt matrix]

Just use the dpad, breh

It’s basically like using a lightgun

[hearty marten]

Of course!

The game “Lemmings” contains video footage of myself and other members of the Robby clan following his instructions

[burnt matrix]

⠀ 🚶 🚶 🚶
/=======

🤾 /

[gloomy hedge]

Amazing

Truly beautiful ASCII conversion of lemmings

[violet wolf]

Interesting, so basically the first major controller with analog stick? Will the analog work if I have an xbox controller? It's so weird

Damn, I was looking for 3d controller games, saturn has a duke nukem 3d port

Nvm the 3d controller released after the n64 even, I tend to think of saturn as a much earlier console for some reason

[violet wolf]

Don't worry, I have my d-pad snac adapter ready to go, for all my high intensity d-pad gaming needs

[gloomy hedge]

BULK SLASH FIRST PLAY with TWINSTICKS (Sega Saturn via Fenrir ODE) https://www.twitch.tv/aktane if you guys are interested

[vernal sun]

How does Grandia play on the current core? Anyone try it recently?

[mortal mist]

Works ok , but some experience texture flickering

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Saturn_MiSTer/issues/210

[violet wolf]

Some games become so much more playable with the 3d controller, had no idea

[serene thunder]

And some nerds use the 3D controller with DC also using a simple mod

[hearty marten]

Is there any way to emulate a 3D controller with something more modern?

(i.e. to not have to use SNAC)

[drifting frigate]

Currently the 3D controller emulation option is not working properly. It's been broken for a while (worked in the early spring and before). I think it's related to it not being fully implemented - there's no current non-SNAC way to use analog triggers. So SRG focused on implementing SNAC and all of the emulated controller options broke in some way or another apart from digital.

It used to work with the mapped analog stick just fine, though, so I assume it'll get fixed eventually.

[tiny flare]

Ooh, this is a thing? Is it documented somewhere?

[gloomy hedge]

bulk slash good

[serene thunder]

Some more info here. I bought one off Fleabay at some point and it had this silver foil sticker over the SEGA logo which was easily removed
The mod appears to be in the detachable cord base that slots into the controller, so you can swap in a non-modded cord and use it with Saturn as normal
https://www.reddit.com/r/dreamcast/comments/rzn73a/saturn_3d_controller_for_dreamcast/

I think the idea is that the dpad is better plus you get the 6 face buttons

This is what mine looked like

[lofty spire]

i like the Japanese 3D Saturn pad better 🙂

[serene thunder]

How is that different

Color?

I have one somewhere

This is a pretty chic setup

[lofty spire]

it's cool that controllers are region free. my JP Saturn controller works on my US Saturn

[tidal marsh]

i just want a usb mod that slots into the back of a 3d pad that's readily available

[serene thunder]

That would be intriguing

[gloomy hedge]

this setup sucks

I mean

nothing is plugged in

there's not even an ashtray

where's the TV

[serene thunder]

🤦‍♂️

I've always wondered if these are good

[gloomy hedge]

hey that dont look too shabby pardner

[serene thunder]

$$$

[hearty marten]

Thanks for the info. Glad to know it used to work. Just a case of being patient then 🙂

[serene thunder]

Reminder that this atrocity exists

[gloomy hedge]

yoo is that L/R on the front

this is godlike

look at that DELTA airlines start button

[serene thunder]

Look at the quality of plastics, looks like cheap easter chocolate

[tidal marsh]

is that a GC stick?

[tiny flare]

Very cool, I guess the only issue is you don’t get a VMU?

Otherwise yeah the dpad on the 3d controller is so much better, and yeah 6 buttons would be awesome for some games

[drifting frigate]

My CR2032 supply thinks this is a value add.

[tiny flare]

Beeep

[drifting frigate]

Apart from storage, I've never connected two VMUs. Not to play with chaos or trade saves or anything. I should probably try that sometime.

Sorry, tangent.

[tiny flare]

Hah, yeah I never bothered with that, if I want to move saves I end up using dreamshell and an SD

[drifting frigate]

Yeah, Mode, same thing.