I was playing vs a La Reina and I teched towards the ledge. La reina attempted to fstrong me and it resulted in her killing me while I was in shield... As you can see in the video I did not release shield at all but I got the crit screen when it happened. Reviewing it it shows her as Aerial the entire time, which from my knowledge means that she should phase through me and have no collision.
#La Reina Fstrong killing on shield
crude birch
crude birch
every supporting document and angle I could come up with to try to replicate this. I'm not sure what happened.
west thicket
I was playing vs a La Reina and I teched towards the ledge. La reina attempted t...
La reina fstrong and ustrong are command grabs which go through shield
west thicket
wait yeah idk what the deal with that is
crude birch
Yeah i have dug deep into it and the only variables I can find are:
In the interaction in question 2 frames before I'm (maypul) supposed to be off the stage with a -1.350 value
When trying to replicate it I always hear the shield clink before being sent off the stage.
My shield health was full so I don't think it was a weird shield break situations
Reina is in an aerial state until the hitbox so collision does not make sense.
I cannot replicate the results
Shield was held through the entire interaction so it is not a shield drop. There is no shield di because the sticks are both in neutral... i checked ecb and no results
hollow ruin
I think you might have gotten pushed off the ledge the same frame that you got hit causing your shield to drop and also making the attack connect. In the top video it looks like she touched the ground and then the next frame after that is when you got purpled.
opaque charm
yeah i think thats what happened
Similar stuff happens on Eta and im under the impression its intentional
opaque charm
sorry for low bitrate. diamond shaped yellow boxes in the center of models are ECB(environmental collision boxes)
opaque charm
I was playing vs a La Reina and I teched towards the ledge. La reina attempted t...
so when La reina landed on the ground with her chair, her ECB overlapped with yours and pushed you off into a fall before it hit you. Maypuls Coordinates in this image match those in the videos
rigid rover
This is definitely you sliding offstsge
Happens occasionally when youre really close to the edge
thorny narwhal
Yeah, you're literally on the edge of the stage so any multihit does this reliably without shield DI against it; unlucky but possible to be pushed off and hit by other moves. You'll notice you are aerial when you go into hitstun.
crude birch
tested in scenario 4 ... pushoff cannot happen with Aerial state
@rigid rover @thorny narwhal @opaque charm @hollow ruin
And difference in Scenario 4 is that pul is even closer to the stage slide off..
I have tried to recreate this multiple times and it doesn't work any way I come up with.
rigid rover
Did you roll to the edge of the stage?
crude birch
The only things I see that are inconsistent are.. 1 my shield box just disappears on the hit.... 2 My cordinates before the hit show me at -1.3450 2 frames prior the hit even though I'm still standing on the stage.. 3. in EVERY recreation the shield will make a sound before I slide off.
I understand this looks like "newb doesn't understand ECB" but the answer is no it is not a ECB issue
rigid rover
I have video of the same thing happening
crude birch
I teched and went straight into shield
which is the EXACT same thing that happens in vod 4
only difference is that in vod 4 she gets even closer to the edge so it should have been better results from the fstrong
rigid rover
At the end of this video you can see my down special push kragg off the pillar, then the second hit killed him.
Wish I had the original clip
Usually if it looks like your shield stopped working, double check youre not by a ledge. I made the same mistake of calling it a bug, in the past, when it was just a shield slide off
crude birch
I'd have to check when Zetterburn is considered grounded and for how many frames he is active with his Splash..
Because the issue is not so much "Its a slide off" that isn't making sense. It's "she's Aerial and had collision" that is not making sense... And again If you look at 2 frames PRIOR the grounded hit it shows that Maypul was considered offstage even though she's still in shield.
Its not an ECB created pushback issue considering again look at Video 4 of the second comment. I could not be any more ECB in that video. and it still got the shield before the hit. She has a grand total on 1 frame for her splash damage.
If you think I'm wrong, please recreate the scenario because I've tried 50+ different ideas and still have yet to find a successful recreation of the situation
This has been my White whale of a project because my friend and I have for a week now to recreate it because he wants to know what caused it so he can see about setting up scenarios with it.
Because this is the part that is not making sense to me
rigid rover
Most of the time it happens when somebody rolls towards ledge and their max roll distance gets cut short.
As zetterburn, if someone is on fire, you can fsmash someone shielding in that scenario. The first hit pushes them offstage, the second kills them
Thats all ive got
crude birch
Most of the time it happens when somebody rolls towards ledge and their max roll...
which makes sense... fstrong is a grounded move
rigid rover
which makes sense... fstrong is a grounded move
Its more that the move does 2 hits that matters
crude birch
but can you at least see why I'm saying it looks like a bug?
rigid rover
I do, but considering the location of the person shielding I am pretty sure its a slide off. Not to dismiss the inconsistencies youve been finding.
My only other guess is that her collision box pushed you offstage
That happens frequently enough too
crude birch
And here it is on the recreation. ECB is very overlapped but none of the wild inconsistency
rigid rover
And here it is on the recreation. ECB is very overlapped but none of the wild in...
Here is a crackpot theory
Im not saying this is the answer, but there is a possibility that the angle/trajectory of the move could affect the slideoff.
-# not sure how much airspeed influence fsmash has after you choose a direction
We could be talking a very specific position would push, while others wouldnt because too far or close
crude birch
the issue there is that Fstrong doesn't get influenced with airspeed tmk... It's a set speed and distance
rigid rover
Tangent again....
Another move that does this is oly upspecial. If youre too close to ledge, the vacuum hitboxes can suck your shield in while she recovers
crude birch
Tangent again....
Another move that does this is oly upspecial. If youre too clo...
Maybe makes sense just because of how vacuum boxes generally work in other games, but I haven't explored this one so I don't really know the yes or no.. but then again we're talking multi hit like the zetter fstrong so maybe a better explanation?
rigid rover
Maybe makes sense just because of how vacuum boxes generally work in other games...
Only becuase the multihits pull in towards oly
So its like slideoff from the other direction
crude birch
I can get it.
but yeah. Hopefully someone can recreate this just for Peace of mind... It would be wild if there was some type of weird input he didn't realize he made that did a weird interaction
but I'm pretty close to just going "its a 1 in a million" situation and moving on.
rigid rover
I figured it out
crude birch
ok
rigid rover
every supporting document and angle I could come up with to try to replicate thi...
Maypul didnt slide off becuase she has the fat mod. Shes too heavy in this clip
J
crude birch
Ya know... that would be funny if it turns out that's the issue of why I can't recreate it... the modder's adjusted her weight
thorny narwhal
Can La Reina be aerial but the chair itself be considered grounded with this move?
I assume the chair ECB loses collision with the stage (I mean, it's clearly clipping through) but am wondering if the fact that the chair is not actually a player means the frame advance viewer is not getting a full picture of its state