Weird, consistent patterns in surface

[grizzled cloud]

So I've been trying to get a 0.6mm CHT nozzle clone attached to my old CR 10 - The problems I have, don't seem to originate from the CHT nozzle, but is more a general printer problem.
I've tried with both a normal 0.6mm and a 0.6mm CHT nozzle, and the artifacts appear on both, with the same OrcaSlicer settings (except retraction being 5.6mm with the normal nozzle and 3mm with the CHT)
On both axis the artifacts appear in the same place, despite being two different "slicings" with different retraction speeds.
I think the settings pretty conservative, at max 80mm/s, and theprints would have taken 1½ hours to complete (i cancelled at 70% to compair the inteior of the prints)

[serene viper]

acceleration is more relevant than speed for that sort of artifact. what acceleration?

[grizzled cloud]

The settings in orca was ridiculously high (like 5000), but here are the settings/limts from the printers advanced config menu:
Accel: 500
Retract accel: 1000
Travel accel: 500
Max X/Y accel: 500
Max Z accel: 100
Max E accel: 5000

Velocity
Max X/Y vel: 500
Max Z vel: 10
Max E vel: 60

[serene viper]

Attach the gcode please

[grizzled cloud]

Sure thing 🙂

[bitter junco]

id say you are going way to fast. my cr10 could pull of max 60mm/s

[grizzled cloud]

oh sorry, forgot to mention this; the motherboard has been replaced with a SKR mini E3 (actually a SKR Mini MZ, but basically the same) - so shouldn't the 32bit board allow higher speeds, and the "only" limits being the nozzle/bowen/mechnical parts? I do realize it will never be a Voron 😉

[bitter junco]

and the mass of the bed

unless you rebuild it to dualbelt linear rails

otherwise you can try only 30 mm/s retraction speed

[grizzled cloud]

Ok, i've now tried with a retraction of both 30 and 15mm/s, nothing else changed, but i still get the exact same patterns in the exact same places - could it be OrcaSlicer introducing them? Trying Cura tomorrow

[serene viper]

@grizzled cloud why are your line widths ~0.4mm? with a 0.6mm nozzle your line widths should be wider than 0.6mm

[grizzled cloud]

@serene viper Excellent question and nice catch 😄 I screwed up, while "resetting" the print profile and selecting the default Creality one and forgot to change the line width :S Currently printing a Cura one, but will redo the one with Orca afterwards, with the correct linewidth

[grizzled cloud]

@serene viper So the Cura cube was just plain bad (lost my profiles during a reinstall of Windoze), here is a new cube (on the left) with 0.6mm layers instead of 0.4mm 😉 Retraction was 3mm and retraction speed was 15mm
It defnitely cleaned things up a bit and shifted some problems to other areas - also, any ideas on the layerlines themselves? I highly suspect the Z rod and are considering that the only way to fix it, is getting a WobbleX

[serene viper]

Attach gcode please

[bitter junco]

speed did not help?

[grizzled cloud]

Sure thing, here it is 🙂

@bitter junco The speed decrease of the extruder definitely helped, but didn't fix it completely

[bitter junco]

Hmm

Whats your layerheight?

[serene viper]

0.2 in the last gcode.

by what means have you calibrated your esteps?

also, your lines are still thin. make them wider than 0.6mm with a 0.6mm nozzle

[grizzled cloud]

@bitter junco @serene viper Sorry the delay, we had company over for dinner last night and today I was just being with my kids - but NOW they are asleep
The layer height is 0.2 as Billiard said, I've tried changing the line width on the inner and outer walls to 0.65 (added 0.05 from before) and I also tried printed the inner/outer walls at 25mm, and the same lines at the exact same layers appear - going to try and print a simple cube now, and see if the line patterns are the same

[bitter junco]

there is some squishing. try the outerwall with .55

or better set both to .55

[serene viper]

That doesn't sound like a solution to me. I didn't realize it was the same bad pattern every print. Sounds like something mechanical. Bad z wheels or something

[bitter junco]

could be simple pressure advance or other artifacts too

[grizzled cloud]

oh damn! the pressure advance was 0.68 - I remember sitting a late night trying different things, and might have gone a bit extreme on that one - printing a new Orca cube with 0 in pressure advance

[bitter junco]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-im-rooting-for-you-cheer-cheering-gif-5104276

[grizzled cloud]

@bitter junco So, here are two different angles of the cubes - the one on the very left is has pressure advance 0, but not muc/anyh difference. I've also printed out a pressure advance "sheet" from OrcaSlicer and 0.68 does not seem too far off being corret, maybe 0.65
About @serene vipers comments on the mechanical, I don't see any wear on the wheels on any axes - I might take the Z rod and flip it, just because...

[grizzled cloud]

I know FDM is an unperfect process, and I'm just nitpicking - but despite it being an old CR 10 frame, it has been upgraded with a 32 Bit SKR Mini and 0.6mm CHT and I just want it to be fast and print a decent quality 😕

[bitter junco]

Thats a thing a cr10 wont be fast

Btw is the height correct of your cube

[grizzled cloud]

@serene viper and @bitter junco; First of, sorry I've been AFK without getting leaving a notice for you - lots of work stuff going on and ended up going to on a "farm holiday" with the family (lots of animals to pet for the kids) for an extended weekend and didn't bring a laptop

The cube is 30.1 Z, 30.2 Y and 30.3 X - not too bad imho
About the speed of the CR 10, all that's left of the CR 10, is the frame

I've taken apart the extruder and cleaned all gears, made sure the spring was tight enough, swapped the X and E motor and even borrowed the Z rod from my friends Ender 3 - same weird lines!

Any new suggestions as what to try next, would greatly appreciated 🙂

[bitter junco]

The temperature of the bed remains stable? 30 cm print areas can flex enough wuth only 1 or 2 c difference

[grizzled cloud]

yes, the bed is super stable at 60' - but the lines are at the exact same height/height, just below the middle of the Y

maybe it's easier to see here

[bitter junco]

Hmm did you leave a gap between the z leadscrew and the motor shaft inside the coupler?

[grizzled cloud]

hmm, excellent question - I'll check it when it's done printing a plain cube 😉

[grizzled cloud]

@bitter junco So, I checked the Z rod and doublechecked it was lifted properly from the motor and there was a gap between the rod and engines rod
Cleaned all wheels and rail where they run on all axis
I've tried slicing with PrusaSlicer (theoretically same slicer engine as Orca) and Cura, just to check it was actually mechanical
No difference - the plain cube shows less artifacts though and not in the same pattern though

[bitter junco]

hmm

what printer do you have again?

have you ever done esteps for your z axis

[grizzled cloud]

CR 10 frame, with SKR Mini and CHT 0.6 nozzle - i have not done esteps for z axis, never thought about it being a thing

[bitter junco]

every axis has esteps 🙂 and with it beeing an older model maybe something wore down over time

[grizzled cloud]

but how to calculate esteps on z? Just let it raise 100mm and measure with a ruler? Also, the plain cube I printed, was 30.0mm tall on Z, so I don't suspect there to a major issue (if any)

[bitter junco]

thats true hmm

did you check if your rollers have a flat spot?

[serene viper]

it's not called "esteps" for the z axis, that would be zsteps. 😛 anyways. xyz steps are not to be calibrated. they represent the gearing of the motion system and the driver/stepper characteristics. do not measure and adjust the xyz-step values

[bitter junco]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-get-to-work-gif-21630516