Updated Match Maker is not balanced

[olive bolt]

Thanks for making that clear

[paper anvil]

Ah the irony.

Can we go back to the actual problem and not a battle of EGOs please, the idea of the post is to look for the issues with the current MM not to pretend who is better or worse.

[digital orchid]

Well I’ve posted some actual data just now and that’s been ignored by a certain user because it doesn’t align with his view that there’s nothing wrong with the system

[paper anvil]

Yeah i also posted several items at this point, but at least on Tuesday we are going to have a new update for the MM, so i am waiting for that to come and give feedback.

[digital orchid]

I’ll test again after the “changes”, and do another 53 games to compare

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/bitaroo-bitcoin-laser-eyes-laser-rays-spongebob-gif-744381408472201675

Ah talking about i think the "Black Diamond is going to be a perfect test for me, new Tonk and not OP, plus these.

[fleet elm]

You’re basically quoting WG

Also, they’re changing mm on Tuesday, talking about how it is now is pointless

[acoustic mist]

It's Sunday the weather is nice here in NA people tend to go outside especially in the fall because it's festival season & because of fall sports.

[raw star]

its flooding the thread and 1 game alone doesnt proof much because before this MM it was also possible to have these type of results. if you truly want to share your expirience then you could do a spreadsheet of all your matches to analyze your data. like 100+ matches. you should know that WG is very slow to understand core issues of the game and also is very hard to convince of something, for example that they do not understand that theres no linear proportionality of skill in between low and High Winrate players hence the arithmetics of the additive method for delta(Winrate) causes a lot of horrible matches for 1 side

thats why you have to give very precise feedback so that hopefully they understand it even a bit even if not completely (like with the T249 Black)

[cunning dew]

Yea maybe . Just usually there's some on lol

[paper anvil]

In the entire US, you have people that finally can rest at home, so a lot won't go out XD

[cunning dew]

A 50% winrate with a player that has 4700 wn8 lifetime stats. Something is seriously wrong

Should be 60+

Also you shouldn't have to platoon to raise your winrate

[cunning dew]

Especially on an account with 43k games😂

[paper anvil]

At the beginning i was posting tons of games back to back mostly noticing that a loosing team gets paired with terrible players, several 0 damage players in a game, at a minimum 2 or 3 doing 0, some were 4 to 5 doing 0, that was not normal before the MM, you could see it here and there but not as normal as now you see it a lot, that was the main issue with me, and why i was mostly advocating for it to be tweaked more.

[raw star]

then you didnt look so often at the results, they definetly happened before as well, just not so frequently as now

[paper anvil]

Am... yeah that is what i said XD

[raw star]

im talking about 5 people doing nothing, it was normal as well, just that before that 5 of them were at each side, now its just one.

its not like that suddenly theres a ton of new bad players, they are just badly distributed between the teams now

[paper anvil]

Yeah pretty much 😇

[cunning dew]

Idk why but even before this update all i see are bad players

Like they just get worse and worse

Sometimes makes it harder for me cause I cant predict what they will do😂

[paper anvil]

Some of it is beacause there were a ton of gifted high tier tanks, is not the main reason but a good one.

[cunning dew]

Partly

[paper anvil]

Yes the biggest frustration i have is that.

[cunning dew]

But even like lower tiers. Anywhere I go I see em

[paper anvil]

Well, that makes more sense because most new players or causals will stay there for a while, but yeah i also noticed some terrible plays or behavior here and there, can't do anything about that tho.

https://tenor.com/view/jeremy-clarkson-im-trying-to-work-out-what-i-can-do-about-that-nothing-the-grand-tour-car-cant-do-anything-gif-21805664

[cunning dew]

Oh definitely makes sense but like there's no place I dont see them now

Dont even get me started on cw players😭

Every tier

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-peppo-gif-22663666

[rocky plank]

I've been playing the game since the beta and honestly I've never wanted to quit the game so much. The balancing system is literally a spit in the face of good players from the Wargaming devs, you've been making a series of bad choices for years that led us here. I've always looked back on your "bad" choices, telling myself that maybe I was wrong, but I have to admit that no, it's your decisions that are catastrophic. Making bad choices happens, but you also have to know how to recognize it and not just justify it on the fact that the players are never happy. Wanting to make the game more "casual" and give a higher chance to "weak" players is a total lack of RESPECT towards the players who have progressed and learned the game mechanics by the sweat of their brow to become "good" players. And finally, for more than 11 years, how many times have you listened to the community? I have the impression that for 11 years we've been asking you the same things, for what result? The only thing that saves your game is that it's free, because in 11 years of updates, many other games would have been deserted by their players after only a few years. In short, if you want to avoid wasting time, either good players, avoid penalizing them, you'll see in the long run you would win 😉

[fleet elm]

They’re changing it in 36 hours

[paper anvil]

I mean yeah but that is a strong word don't you think? XD

[digital orchid]

Well the first MM change ruined the game

Can’t say I’m optimistic for this next change

[cunning dew]

They ain't gonna change that much i couldn't think

Will probably make it worse tbh

Idk im hoping for the best

[fleet elm]

Yeah but complaining about something days before it’s gonna be changed is funny to me

Realistically the mm is still gonna suck. They’re way too invested in “even” matches

[cunning dew]

Its gonna suck and im gonna quit

They loosing me

Just the same stuff over and over. Get so many sh**ers on my team and no im not just noticing this after. Partly because I record games for YT and have noticed the lack of long good games

[fleet elm]

It’ll be better than now. This current mm is basically worst case sbmm

[cunning dew]

I hope

[digital orchid]

I had one game earlier with a triple 1F platoon, two one- players, plus me on my buddies account, all on the same team

You can guess how long the enemies lasted. I was in an iron rain so barely did anything before all the damage was gone

But the matchmaker is still creating super unbalanced games

With the players numbers left it’s just a losing battle. I really don’t understand this obsession with trying to create “even games”

[fleet elm]

That's a separate issue with how pairs are formed with platoons. Most of that was probably "forced" from the get go both with this and the previous mm

[cunning dew]

I got against kellen,lswv,wil iam platoon the other night. There was no platoon on my team😳

And you guess it. We lost

Nothing is gonna stop a triple 1F platoon

[fleet elm]

I mean if there was a close platoon in the mm, it could make it close

[digital orchid]

Just shows how scarce the player count is when the game can’t find a 3 man to match against them

[cunning dew]

I was the only super uni on our team. I have no idea how it. CAme up with thag

[digital orchid]

Even more reason as to why this is all completely pointless at this stage in the game imo

[cunning dew]

Wish I screenshotded it

[fleet elm]

There were 4 supers in the queue and 3 were platooned. It’s trivial

[cunning dew]

How am I supposed to win against that. Oh and I was in thunder chief. They were in meta tanks

Automatically lost from the start

I was in a shity tier 10

[fleet elm]

Platoons have always been the biggest tax on the mm. Spg said he’d do away with it if he could

The auto losses and wins from platoons is worth the fun element of playing with friends

It’s not really relevant here

[acoustic mist]

Platoons are about the only reason to play games like this. Gaming is all about playing with friends and arcade games like this are all about having fun with friends. I get that a bunch of older people who at one time were good at PC games or twitch shooting now want to find a slower game and turn it into something it never was a comp single stat driven game but this WoT Console has always been an arcade haven for older players. If WG wants us more casual players to all leave then they can keep doing things like elimination of platoons (cutting them to 3 drove many away already) nerfing premium tanks vs testing them fully before release, moving to the sort of MM they have now or trying to force it to be a comp game... Those things will all be great if WG wants to turn this into a niche game like Insurgency Sandstorm.

[fleet elm]

@bleak oriole Are we getting any information regarding what is changing in the MM tomorrow?

[digital orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/dope-gif-1211204957743195431

[paper anvil]

During the stream it was mentioned and there was a side note lost to the comments made about it, maybe we might have a better explanation later for us MONKE to understand it better and with no interpretation.

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-hmm-gorilla-monkey-idk-gif-10802359271088289051

[autumn light]

^timestamp of the stream talking about it

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/keyaan-john-wick-keanu-reeves-gif-2384046765437701795

[acoustic mist]

@autumn light is there any conversation about adding back more rubble, haul down locations & choke points to slow the game back down as it was pre 6.0?

[autumn light]

no clue, but that would be a discussion for a different thread 😉

[acoustic mist]

Thanks for at least replying to me 👍

[oak surge]

Please bring it back to how it was before or do something about it WG, because the overruns are such that the battles end in 4 minutes at most 13:0, 14:0, 15:0 almost every one for both sides and you don't have a chance to score anything properly in such a short time and it's so bad that I decided to resign and play at night where the games last over 8 minutes and bots often score more than live players and it's more balanced compared to what's during the day and honestly normally I wouldn't have thought before that bots would last longer than players and you'd still get to play, but unfortunately that's the way it is today and until they fix it I'll only play in the morning and at night because it's not possible during the day, before even if it wasn't perfect, it was better than now

[autumn light]

changes are going live within literally the next 12 or so hours

[proud harbor]

What changes though?

(I know you cant say)

[fleet elm]

If they can't say, it's still a mediocre system

[paper anvil]

Hey i saw that why did it go away?!
@digital orchid Explain yourself!!

[digital orchid]

Individual battles don’t matter

[paper anvil]

There you go! don't delete XD

[paper anvil]

Are you asking for the specific details or the general things? because the basics of it were shared.

[fleet elm]

Can you summarize so I don't have to watch the stream?

But yes specifics

[paper anvil]

There are no specifics yet but...

[paper anvil]

#1405193097079689458 message
Here are the main points, that @autumn light Shared.
At the moment no specifics but tomorrow we will see how the changes affect the game.

[fleet elm]

We won't be able to tell very easily. It'll be somewhere between where we are now and where it was. The degree matters though

[paper anvil]

Yeah no idea to be honest, just hopping for the best

[fleet elm]

Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. El classico

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/clasico-unclasico-un-skipper-pinguinos-madagascar-gif-9139591

[gaunt edge]

We'll be monitoring this thread too with the new MM adjustments

[thin quest]

Why did WG choose to change the MM and not to teach players the game mechanics and make them better player to create higher quality matches?

[fleet elm]

You can’t teach players who don’t want to learn. Bad players will always exist

[gaunt edge]

And this happens in all games too. Its not a tanks exclusive thing. Some players just wanna get on their game, do a bit of damage to blow off steam and relax. They're not going out of their way to be best, because for them, they don't need to. Everyone plays for different reasons, and balancing that is a pain

[muted oracle]

What adjustments were made?

[cunning dew]

Yes I'm wondering

I cant find it anywhere

[native plaza]

They are secret, just give feedback if better or worse or still the same

[cunning dew]

Probably gonna be the same😂

Na hopefully better tho

[proud harbor]

Problem is its kinda hard to judge. Like it took me 2 weeks to really feel the effects of the change in the first place.

[cunning dew]

Im taking a break from tier 10 for a bit so I probably won't notice

I can influence alot more at lower tiers

[proud harbor]

I will try to play some, but I am trying not to burn myself out lol

[cunning dew]

Hopefully it's better

[vagrant holly]

has anyone tried the new mm yet

[ripe bloom]

Nope

Servers aren't even online for me

Probs my Internet tho

[digital orchid]

I’m in the process

Only 2 games in

[cunning dew]

Yes

No change

First game was 3 minutes 😐

[proper valley]

Ok who was genuinely actually expecting changes?

[fleet elm]

We're not going to be able to quantify the change realistically

[proper valley]

Not to be a negative Nancy. But no matter what the match maker is kinda screwed.

I don't think there is a realistic way to fix it.

[fleet elm]

Or go about it another way like lowering accuracy and dpm and nerfing toxic tanks

[proper valley]

That isn't going to fix anything nate. That'll make the game more reliant on RNG if anything.

[fleet elm]

It'll slow the game down a lot

[proper valley]

And everybody loves gambling on if their shot will hit or miss right?

And tell me. How will that fix anything? I've actually noticed that a lot of these matches aren't actually determined by DPM or accuracy. Its determined based on player skill. There is a nasty tendency for players to just move as a horde. Any who don't follow are usually swept up by the enemies counter horde.

Its really bad in CW. But it can be seen in WW2.

I don't really think its the DPM or accuracy. Does it really matter how fast people can shoot or how accurately they can place their shot when you are staring down 9 charging enemy tanks?

[digital orchid]

So far I’ve played 6. 83% wr and they’ve all been pretty close games

See if this continues after about 50 or so and I can keep the wins above 60 %

Probably just having an outlier session rn

[proper valley]

Sounds promising.

But you are probably right with it being an outlier session atm.

[supple sun]

Have the matches been better after the update today?

[proper valley]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worse.

[autumn light]

https://tenor.com/view/look-stare-face-mean-bruh-gif-27645430

[proper valley]

Hey. Heat. Quick question.

[gaunt edge]

Tag, you're it! I got stream to finish prepping

[proper valley]

Will there be any model updates to older vehicles? Some of the older tanks can really use a spruce up.

Not talking about stat or balance changes. I mean their literal model. Some of them are really old and haven't been updated since release.

Would you know anything about that?

[autumn light]

So, true story for you from a tankfest.

I convinced one of the drivers from the actual show to come play WoT (Was pc, as worked for them at the time). Guy sat down, drove around, shot the ground a few times, died because he went to a really bad position. Loved every second. Told me the sound was great, and he loved being able to drive and shoot a tank without the fear of literally being shot back 😅 (said as a joke, but a kinda morbid one lol). He had absolutely 0 care about if he won, if did a bunch of damage. Came back a couple times over the event and he just enjoyed driving around and shooting, didn't care if he did 1 damage of 10k. Some people will always play because they enjoy playing, some people enjoy winning.. everyone plays for different reasons.

[autumn light]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

😅

[autumn light]

probably a question for a different thread/chat 🙂 This one tends to start going off topic far too often as it is 😅

[proper valley]

Alright. Fair point.

[digital orchid]

So far they seem better. Small sample size though yet

[swift swan]

General chat thread. Otherwise it chalks up to someone’s wn8 record or how someone feels when the odds are against them. I’ve had those games where five six tanks crash out quickly, but if those remaining really strap down and grind it out, the win can come. I enjoy it. Don’t give up so easy when the odds are against you. Strategize the flow of friendly tanks better, as in who’s by your side. Maybe like two autoloaders, and a heavy. Or two lights, two mediums. Control a part of the map, survive. Alright, Thanks.

[autumn light]

#1407968911382675536 message Reminder for those wanting to gather their own data/numbers to share after the change, @uneven shoal made a tool so you can pull data from your recent battles. Obviously use at your own risk and don't use it to stat shame and so on, but any examples of battles you think shouldn't be happening or that feel horribly unbalanced share so it can be looked into 🙂

[simple zodiac]

My team and the other team.

Looks pretty fair to me for the foch right guys?😭

[gusty hedge]

Teams 2 good players didn't show up to the battle, the Foch player is an average joe.

We can't control players in battle to perform to their skill level, that is on them.

[proud harbor]

Which is why you shouldn’t try imo

[unreal hound]

i would just love people to say they like the new changes now and WG revealing they did nothing 😂

[acoustic mist]

They can't fix the MM alone this is why I ask about the Maps. Maps, MM, platoon size, radial wheel & tank distribution all go hand-in-hand no one thing is the magic bullet. They need a major overhaul.

[autumn light]

my anarchist mind actually liked the idea to revert it and don't say it, and then watch all the calls to revert "the new" stuff 😅

[unreal hound]

i just hope the amount of steamrolls decreases even more than with the last update. That is all i want longer & closer battles how WG achieves it i dont care

[fleet elm]

Well it changed very marginally so it probably was in your head

[paper anvil]

Something feels... different but can't really tell after 5 games, but i feel something.

https://tenor.com/view/feelit-itscoming-pimple-theemperorsnewgroove-yzma-gif-4846055

[autumn light]

We obviously want the game to be more enjoyable, and for everyone. It has been a call for a long time to make games closer, have less streamrolls, etc etc. And as other QoL changes may show we are taking a mutli faceted approach 🙂 If things don't work we will try and find better/other ways to achieve that

[fleet elm]

I’ve gotten shafted all morning but it feels more like people making weird plays than a team comp thing

[unreal hound]

hm it seems for me the people who were telling like they had only steamrolls now and could win 1 out of 10 battles (with still 60% W/R ) had a bit of a issue when wg said it was less than before (even when slightly)

[acoustic mist]

I do like this answer as I said above no one thing is the magic bullet. I do though hope you all are having a conversation about maps in all of this. My gut says that they are a good 25% or more of the problem here. Thanks for being interactive here 👍

[fleet elm]

Well if it helps, I think they're full of it too. The only tangible thing I noticed was an extreme reliance on my performance on the outcome. Anywhere I was not crumbled

[unreal hound]

yes some maps like Highway and Mountain Pass are not balanced and need some rework. Maps like Dragonridge Overlord Great Wall & Ardenne are just unfun to play and should get removed.
We have so many maps but it seems on some days the rotation only includes like 6-10, if WG would change that they could remove quite a few and we would still have plenty to play with.

[paper anvil]

Hehehehehee aaaah.... i need to blame someone... @autumn light ah perfect i blame @digital orchid.

[unreal hound]

Some are some are not but those games where my performance is important are the most fun for me

[vagrant holly]

juses bro stop stealing all the damage

[paper anvil]

I wasn't me and 2 other poor saps went to one side and the entire team camped at the base, they had more enemies, all the damage for them XD i just had to survive the last Zombies round on my own XD

[tulip cliff]

Do it, I’ll tell you the you the difference.

Be interesting to see if the people who like the change would know the difference though.

[muted oracle]

so placebo week it is then …if nothing announced, nothing changed

[thin quest]

I don't feel anything, still bad

Wg should find ways to punish people who die too many times within 45seconds, don't move beyond spawn or take more then 30 to start moving.

[urban cosmos]

Matchmaking working a treat guys! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[noble siren]

Nothing has changed with the matchmaker. It’s still complete garbage. I don’t even feel like logging into this crap anymore—just ruins my nerves. My teammates play like it’s their first time in the game. From those damn crates some people get 2–3 tanks out of 7. I opened all 20—only 2D commanders. Thanks for the game. I won’t spend another cent. Shove your new tanks with that kind of random right up your hole.

[vagrant holly]

did you just

upvote ur own post

[digital orchid]

I played 20 games today with a 61% win rate and that was with a few of the games me playing like crap and dying in stupid ways. I was playing like a bit of an idiot though to try and see what would happen if I didn’t sweat 100% every single game

[olive bolt]

The 4 possible recycled tanks arent enough to entice you eh?

[digital orchid]

I noticed one immediate change though

Whether it’s placebo or not idk.. but teams were way less stacked with hyper good players

Unless they all just decided to not play this afternoon

The sample size is low though, so I could have just got lucky. Will have to play more to see what happens

[uneven shoal]

It is update day

[paper anvil]

I one marked the 60 TP! Fear meeeeeee!

[vagrant holly]

these sub 5 minute games are killing me

[cunning dew]

I played 50 games and had a 71% winrate. All was tier 6 op tanks tho

Idk if that counts

81% winrate in hellcat with 30 games

Its an op tank so idk if anything has changed🤷‍♂️

[supple sun]

So from my experience the new update has caused Tank stacking. Instead of player stacking. 4 gaus only on one team 5 ignises only on one team. Was this the intent?

[late forge]

Good ol' Hellcat seal clubbing... My vote is it doesn't count.

[cunning dew]

I agree

Just been trying to get that gold mark😂

[late forge]

@supple sun The MM changes don't have an effect on Cold War

But the new tweaks don't feel noticeably different compared to before, in my opinion

[supple sun]

Oh really? Why just ww2?

[digital orchid]

Cold War matchmaking hasn’t been changed

[late forge]

@supple sun I believe they don't want to change the MM for both game modes at the same time, they want to gather data from WW2 to see if it is working as intended before fiddling with CW

[supple sun]

Alright well thanks for the clarification guys 🙂

Guess its just an odd night

[lament mica]

CW has a different MM system from WW2 to begin with as it has Eras. That’s why it was not changed.

[proud harbor]

Actually got to play a bit today and it was generally enjoyable. Had some rough platoon games but the solo ones were great.

[autumn light]

As mentioned above, cw has a different mm so it wasn't changed. And the changes to the ww2 mm have no impact on vehicle selection either so wouldn't cause the vehicle aspect you mentioned.

I think there are other threads discussing other changes to the mm in terms of class limits/minimums as well as some talk about subclass pair matching. So those would be a better place to voice that concern :l

[abstract fog]

Neither MM works, power creep over many years has not helped at all. Every "tank reforged" just feeds the cycle.

[modest river]

Easy. Ban for AFK. If done more often, longer ban.

[unreal hound]

that has nothing to do with the MM the MM dont know before hand when sorting teams if someone is going to be afk

[manic galleon]

How could anyone know? That's why they should get a ban so the mm can't put them in a team for some time

[supple sun]

I already had people clarify it didn't effect CW. Thanks again. I also stated it must have been a weird night because it happened back to back. This is also a thread about unbalanced MM. So my comment has 100% right to be placed here.

[autumn light]

People often want a red name to confirm, hence stating "as mentioned" 🙂

I wasn't critiquing, but this thread is specifically about the change to the ww2 mm sorting system, where a points based system defines which team the 30 players pulled by the mm are placed.

What you mentioned is actually involving the process of how the MM pulls the 30 players which is actually very different. And as I say there is already threads in that area that are much more on topic. So although it isn't massively off topic, it isn't exactly on topic either (althoigh obviously similar) so it isn't perhaps "the best" place 🙂

[supple sun]

Mabey clarify that in the title. As far as I was aware its simply about unbalanced matchmaking. Otherwise people like me will think its more generalized. Thanks again for more clarification. 🙂

[autumn light]

• These threads are made by players and not us, so take that up with Gambit/Vishaw 😅.
• The title says "updated match maker" so it is actually implied in the title, but it seems you weren't entirely aware/understanding of the changes so it is somewhat understandable of a misunderstanding.
• If you read the OP it also explains it, on this one discord need a way to jump to top better. Iirc on PC you can like click somewhere and go to top but not sure you can on mobile.

[supple sun]

I actually did try. Im not the best with technology. Dont have trouble with other posts. I also dont do alot of research so I do appreciate when people correct me.

[autumn light]

Yeah this thread has had some real legs 😅, and the getting to the OP is a discord issue and not yours.

[supple sun]

I appreciate you taking the time to help out. 🙂

[distant acorn]

Cancel either all the changes in the load balancer, or the last one, the game has lost its meaning, the battles end in 3-5 minutes, 2 of which fall on the turn. Changes in balance have a huge impact on the game, if earlier the game was +- evenly distributed, now the game consists of 2 options, either an attack from one direction at the beginning of the game, or people stand until the end of the game

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-legs-gif-10811579

[acoustic mist]

Same here... I don't understand Discord at all. Finding the right thread to post stuff, following the comments, feeling like your post are ignored because they are not marked as read by staff & such... I never thought I'd say this but I miss the forums it was organized in an intuitive way IMO.

[coral zephyr]

So far this week, just two days, the MM seems improved. It doesn't seem like I am automatically getting shafted most matches.

Too bad I just jinxed myself for the rest for the week.☠️

[vagrant holly]

still getting sub 5 minute matches and steam rolls

not fun being on either end

[autumn light]

they will always happen, the intent was to reduce and the first sorting change did that very slightly. Hopefully that has been improved further with this change as well as alleviated some of the issues raised here.

[proper valley]

My problem is that they will always happen

Even if we nerf reload and accuracy. And all that stuff

It'll still be blatantly obvious who's going to win within like the first 2-3 minutes

[scarlet mantle]

Not at all is it over after 2-3 minutes but you have to make a play to turn the game into your favor. Often enough this helps and if not you at least tried something.

But you are right… there are games there will be a lose even if you do 10k damage.

At the moment the mm feels ok i would say

[coral zephyr]

Generally, what I am ok with is:
1/3 matches my team is better
1/3 matches the other team is better
1/3 we have to fight it out (teams evenly balanced)

Tuesday and Wednesday seemed that way. While I still don't enjoy the matches that are unwinnable for my team, as long as it isn't more than 1/3, it is ok.

[digital orchid]

How’s everyone been finding the game since Tuesdays changes?

[cunning dew]

Not well

80% winrate at tier 6. But when I went and played tier 10 I had a 50%😐

Used to be 65% at tier 10

[paper anvil]

Quite better, feels a lot less SBMM and now a roll of dice is actually in effect, and now teammates although you always get rotten potatoes here and there, are more consistent, at least that is my experience and i been playing mostly Tier 10 at the moment (Trying to Mark the FV215B and the OBJ 705A.

[uneven shoal]

Don’t feel like I’ve played enough matches to truly tell. But overall, it seems better.

[digital orchid]

I’ve not played a tonne either. But i got my friends wr up from 53 to almost 60

Not huge samples

But before the changes the win rates were shockingly bad

45% sessions were frequent

And I got mine back up too

Today’s session on my account

[uneven shoal]

Well, now that I look, it hasn’t really gone up, but my personal performance has been better

[digital orchid]

See, on my friends account my performances were amazing pre changes, and the win rate really bad

But then post changes, my performance dropped a bit. (As you can see compared to my account), I’ve not been playing the best on his, also been playing lots of non meta tanks on his acct, yet my win rate now on his account has been much higher this week

I don’t want to jump the gun at this moment, but it certainly feels much better so far compared to before

I’m absolutely not feeling as much of these insane steamroll losses where I’m fighting just to get decent damage because the team collapses in 2 minutes

Are those battles still happening? Yeah, sometimes. But everyone will have those matches. At the very least they FEEL dialled down in severity, and I don’t feel like I’m being punished for playing weaker tanks, or for just being good in general

[digital orchid]

I agree

@proud harbor, have you been playing much this week at all? How’s it been for you solo?

[proud harbor]

I have been having a good time tbh

[digital orchid]

Me too. That’s interesting

I wonder what exactly they changed then

@autumn light is this information that can be disclosed? Since that is the entire point of this thread really. You were very transparent with what you changed at the start of the season

[autumn light]

Let me read up, just prepping food for tomorrow 😅

[autumn light]

So exact details isn't up to me. But the most i can probably say is that most of the system is the same, it's the same "sorting" system using a points and delta system to assign a team after the 30 are picked.

What changed is within the existing system. Changes within that aspect, to my understanding, is the majority or even entirety of the change. Basically fine tuning and not sweeping changes. I do know that during the attempt to improve things the people doing the work were directly accounting for the concerns raised in this thread, and made sure the simulations run that they saw improvements for the situations outlined as problematic.

For more than that likely it'll be Bam or Winged talking about it on a stream or posting an article/update post.

[cursive tinsel]

Probably not just me, but I do feel when something like this is changed, having that little bit more information on what has actually been changed or what parameters percentages have been changed would help potential calm any responses following the announcement.

The whole clarity over just saying its changed situation. Just reduces the whats been seen, 'Makes you wonder if they say its changed when nothing been changed', 'So I haven't noticed a difference so whats been changed?', 'We have had this more indepth discussion but we dont know what has actually chamged'. I haven't played yet with been away all week so may give it a try tomorrow or throughout the week.

[autumn light]

Just blame KB, easier that way.

[cursive tinsel]

True, but that's higher up the chain aswell saying, we have changed stuff. Well whats actually been changed so we can tell those paying attention or note it in the articles.... nothing further mentioned

Then just lead to a whole back forth, people being pulled into answer questions that spiral from one initial question to 50

[uneven shoal]

It does feel like platooning is worse now than before

[autumn light]

Going of what spg said about platoons, I'd throw anything platoon based out as just bad info lol

[uneven shoal]

Fair, under the previous system, it felt like platooning was the way to get a decent match, now it feels like platooning isnt as much of a "cheat code." Might be a good thing, might not, idk lol

[unreal hound]

for me personally i had more bad games than with last update i feel like one team gets 5 Super unis the other gets 1 and i know after checking the namelist already how the match ends.
The first change distributed the good players more evenly in my experience at least.

[digital orchid]

See this was my exact experience with the previous matchmaking

Now I’m experiencing fairer distribution of players, closer games, and I’m winning more

[mint brook]

MM still garbage. Keep getting blow out games.

[digital orchid]

You’re never gunna stop them completely. Such is the nature of this game

Their aim was to reduce the number of them. Not eliminate them

The top players get blow out games. They’re unavoidable

[mint brook]

Well. Its working great. Almost every game is a blow out today. Such fun

Its all good. Need something to dilute fun and encourage shutting it off and doing something else

[vagrant holly]

ive been having a lot more closer games

[digital orchid]

I concur (so far at least)

This week has felt a lot better

Almost like before the season

[supple sun]

Can we fix CW now if ww2 is better?

Its been awful in CW this week.

[proud harbor]

Nothing has changed in cw

[supple sun]

Im aware. Thats what im saying if the update helped ww2 lets help fix CW. Not sure how to be clearer.

[proper valley]

Played it.

Only got three games in

Four*

Three losses. One win.

But hey. The one win actually felt like a fair balance rather than a steam roll

[tulip cliff]

It seems a lot better to me now, with recent update. I have also noticed when playing 8s, I am top tier a lot more, then ever before.

[coral zephyr]

Today was worse. Several complete steam rolls losses in a row. IF I can finish the Mastery challenge, I'll be done with pvp until next update.

[cunning dew]

Maybe im the only one but it got worse for me😭

Atleast at tier 10

I had to actually quit playing one day I got so frustrated with my teamates

[acoustic mist]

If co-op earnings were better I'd never play PvP it's just to frustrating for me.

[coral zephyr]

At least with a completely random mm, you can say it is just bad luck. But when the mm sorts to "skill" you ALWAYS wonder if you are getting shafted.

[still pendant]

Change the matchmaker. No more skill based. I agree with gambit. For years I've averaged about a 60%w/r. With my lifetime w/r slowly going up. Now it's less then 50%. All games last 90 days were solo. Please listen to the community and change this soon. Maybe remove the tank class matching also. Was it worse when there was more variation in the tank class per team? Didn't it add a little variety?

[paper anvil]

The MM has been changed, they tweaked it so it is not super punishing for the top and bottom.

[thorny bramble]

Yea this matchmaking has to go i be dealing 4k+ damage 80% of my games just to lose cuz i have my 5 teammates getting 0 damage, 0 assist, 0 everything😂😂

[modest river]

I think part of the matchmaking issue is how WG evaluates player performance. As long as they keep the formula non-public it is really hard to figure out whether the mm is ok or okish or not-okish. Let's see what/if they answer at https://discord.com/channels/630895439520202783/1419578203550388285

[modest river]

Wins are pretty hard when 8 players practically contribe absolutely nothing...

[abstract fog]

Looks like the winner side top Tier platoon went the best flank and did a lot of damage as they went. One side had to win, their turn.

[modest river]

Yup, our side zeroperformers fed themselves one by one to their line of fire in just about a minute or so. Really hard to figure out how to tune matchmaking to compensate players like these...

[proper valley]

I don't even think thats a match maker issue. The match maker doesn't dictate how your team mates will perform. I once saw a super unicum get 600 dmg only in a deathstar. People have bad games.

[digital orchid]

Never winning that game with a double night stalker platoon . they just roll through everyone without giving a 💩

[vale maple]

I've noticed 80% of my games if im in a TD my heavys are absolutely horrible.

[thorny bramble]

Yes exactly this

I main the grille 15 and the WT Auf E 100 both of which i average 4000+ damage and its always these heavies that sell me out

Even when i play as my heavy the IS 7, i STILL have to do everything

[vagrant holly]

250 mm lower plate mind you

you quite literally have to fire premium to pen it

and I think its angled

[grizzled bramble]

Just get better @sharp lily

[digital orchid]

250mm that bounces 340 pen with ease somehow just because it’s a night stalker

[vagrant holly]

real

certified American tank moment

[grizzled bramble]

Give me better RNG n a better variant of the same tank vs a better player 😤

[paper anvil]

Yeah the only chance they had is if their high Caliber HE tanks shot near the tracks and top of the stalkers to weaken them good, but that requires several shots and some coordination.

[digital orchid]

Yeah and by the time you’ve loaded an HE shell in some heavy tanks (without ammo switcher), the night stalker has already put 5 through your front. One of the dumbest creations ever

[paper anvil]

Yeah XD that is why i have a personal rule that i am using more given that some equipment pieces are going to be removed, (If HE pen is higher than 50mm and the caliber is at least 120mm i will use the switcher and bring a healthy dose of 15 to 20 rounds of HE.

[vagrant holly]

https://tenor.com/view/merica-bald-eagle-eagle-america-american-gif-2277187416326490184

@digital orchid @paper anvil

nightstalker enjoyers:

spreading despair and freedom one rocket at a time

[coral zephyr]

a picture is worth 1000 words.

[paper anvil]

hehe about that... i only have 5 games on it and it was when it came out XD.

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/super-idol-de-xiao-rong-dou-mei-ni-de-tian-gif-23819360

[open ravine]

Same issues withe the MM. Whatever "changes" were made, hasnt fixed the issues. Please remove the SBMM back to the MM system pre August 5.

[uneven shoal]

What have your matches looked like recently? I've seen less of the "I died so my team lost" and "I cant carry this team no matter how much I do," but I might just be lucky

[digital orchid]

Weird. It’s been feeling normal for me this week

Almost like they flicked the switch and turned it back to what it was before

My 30 day win rate is back up to 62% which is the same as my Career average mostly solo

Before the changes, but post gods of thunder season, I couldn’t get it above 56-57 %. At one point it was 52%

[digital orchid]

I’ve definitely felt like since these “changes” i haven’t had to hyper sweat every game just to come close to averaging 55% wins

[uneven shoal]

I had one the other day where there were 2 players on the other team with more than 1k damage, and neither had more than 2k. Tier 10

[thorny bramble]

Ts happens daily😭💔

[open ravine]

TBH its a small sample size of games for me... maybe I need to play more and see how it goes...

[uneven shoal]

Maybe, not worth getting pissed off over tho

[digital orchid]

Maybe..

I mean, I don’t play the most these days either, but I’ve noticed significant changes this week compared to before it has to be said

I was very vocal about this before as you can see in this thread 😅. really wasn’t having a good time

But I can play solo again without having to want to rip my hair out

[open ravine]

Thats the thing for me.. the whole point of playing video games is for the challenge and fun. Not to cause rage. So I've decided to just not play... I am sure the intent of the developers isn't to cause some players to not play.. but the SBMM fiasco has had this consequence.. at least for me.

Such a pity

[paper anvil]

yeah i can tell is different, not as it was but different

[cunning dew]

I cant tell tbh

I feel its like 5% better

Thats it

[paper anvil]

Personally i am getting less potatoes in my team, or the mid players are doing a bit more work, before it didn't matter how good i played, 3k, 5k, 6k+ damage i was still loosing and looking at 3 to 5 players doing 0 and the mid players doing bad or meh ok, but now more carry their weight enough for the top players to make a change, that is how i feel it, and if i loose, still felt like good game, not a steam roll.

[coral zephyr]

My weekend was the opposite of that. Just hopeless team after hopeless team. My teams seemed to be trying to die as fast as possible.

[proper valley]

Played a few patches today and all of them felt great. Nearly all of them were nearly entirely balanced. Sure there were a few bots but the teams were actually pretty good all around. Only one match felt like a loss from the start.

Could be luck

Or my average win rate

But I think world of tanks is finally healing.

[coral zephyr]

I think matches Tuesday through Thursday are better. Once you get into the weekend, things go downhill due to the more casual players in the queue.

[uneven shoal]

I’m seeing a lot more complaints on Reddit since the most recent change

[proper valley]

._.

[digital orchid]

Weekends have always been terrible for years but after the first set of matchmaking changes it felt like every day was a weekend lol

But at least it feels better now

[digital orchid]

Probably people going on a loss streak and looking for something to blame it on knowing the subreddit

[fleet elm]

It’s been a stable week. WG probably has some data (untainted by the auto-aim changes)

It could also be players coming back from a break. The optimal way to complete a season is to wait until week 6-7 and complete all the weekly challenges at once

The new mm is still detrimental to winrate for good players compared to pre season

Just not as bad as it was

[digital orchid]

My 30 day is now currently matchmaking my career solo

[bleak oriole]

As a general thing, I'm interested in what your overall experience is with the recent adjustment.

Specifically, if you've played a significant number of WW2 battles - signficant for me starts at 100 - what is your perception of it. Better or worse than what launched in 9.5?

Note that I'm fully aware that people will always have the "bad" game - but the gist of the change is to make the teams more balanced w/o putting too much onus on the good players to carry everyone. Some amount of carry is still expected, but ...

Also, if you can specify which tiers you are playing - because looking at some comments, I see different experiences when I look up someone who is playing exclusively Tier X vs someone who isn't...

[digital orchid]

This week has felt noticeably different. In a positive way

Absolutely feels better. Before, it felt very bad for me

I’ve probably played about ~ 90 games total, and the changes were immediately noticeable on the first day

Way more team mates that were contributing enough to where I could then influence the battle to tip it in my teams favour. Not crumbling before I’ve even had a chance to do anything. My 30 day win rate is now matching my solo career win rate at 62%. During the changes the first time it was as low as 52% which is a huge disparity

I wasn’t playing 90 games a week when these changes came into effect the first time. I would be infuriated at playing after just a handful

[proper valley]

I must agree the missing tooth man is right

The changes do feel positive. Even as an average player the matches last longer and feel more balanced.

Had a defense mission last all the way to the end of the timer

(We lost. But it was fun!)

[bleak oriole]

We will keep monitoring these threads to look for feedback - and continue our internal data collections. We will obviously adjust if necessary.

[unreal hound]

I played 100+ Games and i have to say i enjoyed last MM more.
I win more games now but the games feel easy or impossible i have either 4 superunis in my team vs 1 enemy super uni and we walz over the enemy or i have them against me and get rolled.
Its boring a win is worth nothing if u dont have work for it

[proper valley]

I'll play more matches

See how those pan out.

[paper anvil]

I don't have lots of games yet, i am in the 40s, mostly X and some 8s but i do feel the MM is better at the moment, a lot less punishing, still see a change but is not so heavy handed for one team.

[fleet ermine]

Mainly 10s, last couple weeks... Win rate has went down more with the latest tweak but I'm still playing. Have good sessions and bad ones 🫡

[paper anvil]

Are you playing fully upgraded and equipped tanks, or grinding new ones?

[thorny bramble]

My wn8 is gonna TANK cause of this update

Legit had 6 losses in a row😭💔

[tawny sage]

But also with the MM you crush a team in a platoon your not matched with a platoon or a group of (3) players you get a team with lower WR and you don't get it once you almost get back to back games. Until your WR drops it's a repeating pattern.

[mint brook]

15 battles yesterday. Won 5. Tiers 6-12.
Its not very fun

[coral zephyr]

I am in no hurry to play more WW2. It was around 8 losses in a row on Sunday. I only played as much as I did to finish the Mastery Challenge OP. Which was miserable and took way too long with all the losses and over inflated Mastery requirement.

Since I only play for fun, I won't be playing WW2 very much. My plan was to buy the mega bundle of Black Diamond and flags after finishing the ops. However, I was too disgusted and just shut it down.

[paper anvil]

Can you tell when it was implemented?
the MM has been changed.

[vagrant holly]

uhhhh

btw

we lost

[paper anvil]

ok....?

[vagrant holly]

wrong screenshot

I had a screenshot where my team got all only tier 8 platoon

and whole enemy team gets a whole tier ten platoon

[bleak oriole]

That isn't something that changed with the MM - one team getting a top tier platoon and the other team getting no platoon or a bottom tier was always possible.

[paper anvil]

I am still going to bully you tho

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-gosling-side-eye-gif-18079392773098720691

[vagrant holly]

why me though

[paper anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-covers-mouth-so-funny-ryan-gosling-jacob-palmer-gif-14923113

[uneven shoal]

Definitely felt like match quality nose-dived today. Auto-aim stuff isnt helping, but also makes any data kinda pointless as there's now another external factor

[azure chasm]

Thanks for the confirmation response 😄

[vagrant holly]

._.

[paper anvil]

Date? XD

[vagrant holly]

dont know

just know it was really really painful

it was one day after the tweaks

so yeah

still getting people like that

[paper anvil]

aaah i get those but a lot less

And given you are using that Tank WZ, if you saw a MAUS, 60 TP or FV215B, that was me XD

[errant saddle]

Look at all those bots

[scarlet mantle]

Playing against bots is always painfull because it is to easy to farm them. Bad example picking a bot lobby to discuss matchmaking 🤷🏻‍♂️

[errant saddle]

Sturmtiger only did one he it looks like so prob a bad map for it as well...

[scarlet mantle]

Did you notice you played against bots in this lobby?

[errant saddle]

It's hearsay by that I mean there's some really bad maps for the Sturm since it shoots differently and not straight and it has arc so that leaves alot of tanks unppenable for heats in many situations, and since it's around 800 that looks like a single he pen and after that the player prob died to the tank it was facing.

[scarlet mantle]

Ah sorry… you are not the guy. Sorry

[errant saddle]

It's alright I have like 500 matches in the thing so I know a lot of maps are not good for it.

[scarlet mantle]

That is not my point. In this example the guy chose a battle to discuss matchmaking with at least 5 bots on each side. This makes no sense for me

[errant saddle]

Yha sorry about that Im not gonna bother looking at wotstars just to see wn8s was just explaining that the Sturm is map dependent not player dependant...cause anyone can get okish damage with it.

[errant saddle]

But yes you are right on that screenshot .

[vagrant holly]

@errant saddle @scarlet mantle

overreacting below

that is all

quit making cope excuses for the mm

now keep it pushing

oh and here's a win

that I had to carry cause of those 3 zeros who yolod out

I dont care if if ifs a win or lost I do not want to have people like this on
either team 4 games in a row

thank god for the sfac and udes who actually hit their shots

genuinely nobody wants to deal with teamates like this win or loss

[paper anvil]

Wow chill man XD they are right that in the Match maker heavy Bot lobbies should not be really considered, but right now the MM feels a lot better than when it was implemented.

[vagrant holly]

oh I agree the mm feels better slightly but that still doesnt excuse the teamates the fact its like this for both teams

you really think win or loss im gonna be happy that I had or they had to sweat there behind off just because 4 people can barely muster 1k damage

[paper anvil]

You know? with this auto aim test my eyes were opened, a lot of players (not the majority) but a lot were heavily using only snapshot to play, that explains a lot to be honest.

[vagrant holly]

or just quit the match after taking one shot of damage

oh and majority of those games

1 player was idle

for the whole match

YEAH no thanks

ive been getting a lot more match quitters or people just full afk

[paper anvil]

Yeah AFK players are super annoying, granted i been there a few times because of random circumstances but try to go back ASAP.

[vagrant holly]

oh

[paper anvil]

Yeah imagine playing a match and the door rings, or the lights go out XD sometimes life happens XD

[vagrant holly]

oh and here's a a match where a straight up did nothing but drove the whole game

cause my fellow e4s just deleted everything

match was sub 4 minutes

[paper anvil]

I like when i get carried sometimes, gives me a breeder XD

[vagrant holly]

only 3 people on that team did

1k plus damage

otherwise they were being farmed by the e4s

while I still driving to the Frontlines lmao

by the time I made it

game was pretty much over

really I dont understand how people enjoy this whack sub 4 minute matches

[paper anvil]

Yeah i also have gotten some bad luck games were i go to one spot and no enemy went there and my team deltes them and i barely do anything, is just random luck and super heavy tank experience XD

[vagrant holly]

cause you actively get punished for playing anything that doesnt go at least 40

straight up been a problem since 6.0 and has only gotten worse this godawful mm

these insane dpms everyone has

oh and more people just suicide yoloing

[paper anvil]

The big update should fix many things regarding that.

[vagrant holly]

one of the rare longer matches ive been blessed to have btw

like I said wheres the fun where both teams are equally being shafted by most of their teamates being comically bad

[gusty hedge]

The players in the match are the same players before also. We did not change how players are picked for the match, its still a Class-based matchmaking system.

The only change is how they are sorted once they've been picked.

[vagrant holly]

please revert it

[gusty hedge]

Reason?

[vagrant holly]

to slow down games

[gusty hedge]

That has nothing to do with Matchmaker changes

[vagrant holly]

unfortunate just do something to reduce the number of steamrolls please

anything i beg of you

just please

[gusty hedge]

Thats what we did an the current system does

So you want to keep it

[vagrant holly]

your jedi mind tricks won't work on me max

[gusty hedge]

Then make sure you know what you're asking for as your sending mixed messages lol.

[vagrant holly]

cause I've still been getting sub 5 minutes match quite often if thats what you were looking for

ive only had like 2 games or 4 where the whole clock was ran

[gusty hedge]

Short matches will still happen, there is no eliminating anything. We can only reduce the amount of them. If you are expecting to never have a short match, that is not realistic and will never happen.

[vagrant holly]

I dont want them every single game*

[modest ivy]

I’m happy with the MM changes. The blowouts seem to happen a lot less than previous, and noticing more games coming down to the wire. Bad teams will always be a thing. My only complaint is the rise in bots filling up the teams since the changes were made. Other than that, I feel it has been an overall positive change for the game.

[errant saddle]

Hey I wasn't asking for any changes in general Im against em in general also I get more people that kill themselves on my team than afkers

[vagrant holly]

fair fair

I might of overreacted

[errant saddle]

Yha I was just stating on how that one tank can be a potatoe on your team because I struggle with it as well with the awkward maps cause it has no gun depression at all it just has the ability to splash tanks over the hill but it still has to put itself in the open to do so...which might end up in perma track and death.

[errant saddle]

How did a o-ho do 178 damage , and a hydra with 0 damage....you just use the derp on that line ...

Some bad teammates that's for sure .

[vagrant holly]

dear lord I didnt even notice the oh ho

[errant saddle]

Yha I don't know how he did like 200 DMG....even I know that tanks decent enough to push out atleast 1k a match

[vagrant holly]

he probably rb rt some poor one shot

as usual plenty of them go to yolo ape to kill one guy and die

[errant saddle]

Let me hop on n I'll see if I have any matches I can send you from last night

[vagrant holly]

word

[errant saddle]

I'll dm tho not to clutter thread

[distant acorn]

Hello, I think that the changes to the balancer are as detrimental as possible. I will focus on the fact that the teams are still unbalanced. But how is it possible that I play at level 8 for a certain amount of time in the top, and then against level 10? Why am I forced to play against level 10 because of my stats?? Make the balance based on skill rather than stats, or revert to the previous state.

[autumn light]

The changes have 0 impact on the tiers you will face. Any change you are perceiving there is entirely perceived. The way the 30 are selected and the composition of the 30 is exactly the same, the only change was to how the 30 are sorted on each team.

[paper anvil]

AAAAAAAH what is this? XD

https://tenor.com/view/illuminati-triangle-eye-pyramid-conspiracy-theory-gif-1208222873168159165

[thorny bramble]

My match maker is semi back to normal

Starting to get games like this now instead of full steamrolls

[sage sonnet]

If you don’t plan to add separate modes (where skill, vehicle type, and other factors are taken into account), then why touch the Random Battles matchmaker at all?
In my opinion, the only thing a matchmaker in Random Battles should do is:
gather random players,distribute different vehicle classes according to templates,
and avoid extreme cases (like 9 TDs per team, which I remember from 10 months ago).
But right now the situation is very different. If I want to play, I often have to lose 7–8 games in a row not because I did something wrong, but simply because my team consistently has 3–4 players with 0 damage, and at least one of them is AFK.
I honestly don’t remember this being such a common issue 10 months ago.
Another strange thing: when I get destroyed and start watching teammates, I see players on tier VIII–IX tanks with only 300–500 damage even though they are still alive.
I even saw a case (I have video evidence) where a player survived until the very end of the battle but only fired one single shot—and that was at the same moment they were destroyed. Their behavior was identical to bots from old PC WoT: just following players around without fighting.
The problem is simple: the game has become uncomfortable.
I feel like I’m forced to lose—not because of my mistakes, but because the matchmaker doesn’t like my 62% win rate.

[lament mica]

The uncomfortable truth no one wants to face in all of this:

Perhaps your 62 or whatever percent win rate was too high in that you received the lucky end of the draw before. If the teams are being balanced more, there will be less random wins as well.

[proud harbor]

No one cares about winrate, we care about getting steamrolled because WG thinks one 70% WR player can carry multiple 40% players.

[cunning dew]

I agree It really doesn't. Winrate means nothing.

Wn8 is a better option in my opinion

Both can be farmed tho. So it's hard to tell

[digital orchid]

So I’ve been receiving the lucky end of the draw for 6 years?

[digital orchid]

Can I join 1F?

[paper anvil]

Yes, you sucked all along XD

[digital orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-crying-boy-listening-to-music-music-headphones-gif-12065362834235824624

[lament mica]

How many games do you have?

[digital orchid]

43k

[cunning dew]

If he goes i go

[lament mica]

And so you do realize before the winrate iteration of sorting they had a games played iteration for sorting where you would have benefited from having less games played than some others?

There is always a bit of random wins. Not saying all your wins are, but every time they tweak to the sorting, there is inevitable a tweak to the “random” part—particularly as it’s not always random—approximation. There are some with less and more and randomness may be extreme.

[fleet elm]

When did you go full tinfoil? This is a wild take

[thorny bramble]

Can I join LUX😂✌️

[lament mica]

Mr. SPG, et al

In regards to MM, if platoons are an issue for matching, where even 1 platoon can cause issues, why isn’t there a cap on the number of platoons in a battle?

It seems some of the worst matches are when there are large numbers of platoons in a match—6, 7, 8…. There is a tendency for platoons to off themselves when one of the members dies. Not really fun for anyone remaining. These matches tend to roll through quickly it seems and are lopsided generally. Why not a soft cap?

[vale maple]

You have to love being a player that has great stats in a tank but having a 50% win rate thanks to the new MM every other tank 60% but these changes have just ruined players win rates. You can't carry 14 bad players. And this is for a lot of great players I know.

[modest river]

Unless WG has taken this into account, the new MM is unfair for good players:
The zeroperformers are only the 2nd worst portion of players. The worst portion are players who, by their actions, actively contribute to the opposing team. I mean players who

• Push own side players from bridges or cliffs
• Park their whatever tank behind camo TD's, get themselves spotted and cause the TD's (unspotted) to be killed
• Prevent other players from returning from snapshotting by blocking their movement
• Drive intentionally in front of other players preventing them from shooting
• Intentionally push players who try to shoot opposition
• Etc.
  Probably players with WN8 in black/red(/yellow?) and a low winrate thus being ranked very low.
  Anyone who has played the game more than 3 matches has seen these.

If, let's say, 2 of these kind of players are in the 30 player pool for the match then (at least based on my understanding/guessing) based on their ranking they would most probably be put on a same side with the highest performer pinkypurple WN8'er. This in practise means that the super unicum would more than often enter in a match which is not in fact 15 vs 15 but 13 vs 17.

Why do I as a wn8 blue care about this? Well because if I'm randomed into the same side, I'll suffer the same 13 vs 17 situation.

Is it easy to short these players out? Not sure as I don't have access to the statistical data but a good educated guess would be some sort of threshold of combination of very low WN8 and very low win-%.

How could this unfairness be resolved? The only thing I can think of is WG defining a threshold to try to figure out if/when these kind of opposition supporters are in the MM and do a separate side distribution for them. What I mean that if 2 such players are identified, the current/new mm would be done to 28 players and the triggered ones then split separately (one for both side instead of having 2 of them on one side).

[vale maple]

It's going to lead to aggressive msgs and players becoming frustrated at teammates when you are constantly put in matches with the select players.

[old zenith]

My win rate 35% is horrible today becos of the new mm that penalise better players

[autumn light]

i had CC RNG for like 7 years, now i have staff RNG. Personally can't get away from these crutches

[autumn light]

The complaint raised in this thread would actually imply that you are likely receiving a boost to your chance to win, as it was said to be only negatively impacting players with "out of the ordinary" high win rates (60 to 65%+).

And your win rate has been going up since the patch, so it seems quite unlikely that the MM is responsible for any single day of your results. For example, if the 36% was MM's fault, were the previous 4 ranging from 53 to 59% also MMs fault? Given the MM doesn't change day to day, it would mean that all the sessions since the end of July were also the MM's fault.

[raw star]

if you could show us a graph with x as time and y with average winrate , that way we could analyse if at different times of a day there are more bad players what could put the MM indirectly at fault if the pool is bad for him

[old zenith]

My win rate has been increasing (slowly) cos I had been learning the game from watching Super Unicum video replays. It has nth to do with the mm. However, since the new mm was in place, I am witnessing very often games streaks 7-14 games losses in a row with the red team winning at least 8 players left. This is what I am concern about becos losing 7-14 games in a row as a result of “no teammates” can be frustrating. I do understand one cannot win all the time, but the losing streak is of concern. This is hurting the gaming overall experience.

[swift swan]

Matchmaking has turned into the super Unicom dance around the map. With the ones who don’t pay attention to the map getting Cheesed out, quick. I can appreciate though, that when the two groups do come together it makes for some high intense moments. I have been using rockets a lot more. Got the Jaguar out 20 boxes (love it, thanks) prolly better than the Osorio, being that there are two in every game now. Ive never had almost ever game pan out to 10v10 basically in a small area of the map as it has been lately. I’m thinking it’s my use of rockets.
I’m not sure exactly how MM is calculated.
I would like to see a MM where maybe only my last ten or five matches where considered and the place of where I finished. Averaging finish place for a ranked position in MM.

[viscid gorge]

The new MM does not apply to CW

[crystal depot]

Yeah I agree the new MM does not apply to CW. I have not noticed any difference except the auto aim is back and I was enjoying the last test where I was not getting hit from across the map. I hope they decide to keep the last tested auto aim. The games I played were all closely matched and there were no blow outs.

[viscid gorge]

Confirmed by WG, it does not apply to CW

[crystal depot]

[vale maple]

Getting the same dumb teammates in games is a joke. Match them up on the other team??

[coral zephyr]

The MM did "seem better" yesterday with +1/-1. I am sure that was because the tier and power spread was half as much as normal.

[ocean reef]

+1/-1 is awesome. Amazingly there are rarely any bots. Incorporating this change increases the enjoyability of the game. The only update that I think still needs to happen is reduce the quantity of artillery in a battle to 1 and make the matchmaking completely random, nothing needs to be skill based!

+1/-1 is a very positive change. It was frustrating being a tier 6 tank fighting against tier 8s in a small map where there was no way to keep distance from significantly stronger tanks. Great change!

[coral zephyr]

I won 5 matches in a row in a tank. then the next 5 matches were all losses. The losses were due to terrible teams. lots of zero damagers, ones who wouldn't leave the base or ones that just yoled into the red tanks to their death.

[copper sparrow]

Just get rid of this “upgrade” it’s broken.

[copper sparrow]

This thread isn’t for +1-1, they locked the thread for it. Try https://discord.com/channels/630895439520202783/1333628693884436562

[celest osprey]

I'm surprised they haven't locked this thread.

[cursive tinsel]

The adjust tests are still on going. They changes them, two- threw weeks ago but there been test between there so still need to be open to gauge if there's and improvement on it or not.

[silent tendon]

So that's why my team is worse than ever well well well

[stray star]

skill issue

[misty shell]

Same here

[distant acorn]

In that case, why did I get caught at level 8 for 3 days in a row against level 10? Now, during +-1, I only got caught 2-3 times in the top at level 7. This wasn't the case with the old balance, as the games were evenly distributed.

[autumn light]

that is also literally impossible, the MM has an inbuilt system that means you are never bottom tier X games in a row (3 i think). Also, the MM change this is talking about is still on right now, because all it does is sort the players once in the lobby. The actual hard MM process is what controls the +-2 or 1, and that is changes to +-1 for this week.

[distant acorn]

What does winning have to do with it? I'm interested in a specific question: why am I at the bottom of the list for three consecutive days?

[autumn light]

i didn't mention winning? I said you can't be bottom tier more than like 3 times in a row. So what you're claiming is made up to try and justify your not true opinion/stance.

You are claiming a thing that has no impact where you claim, caused something that can't happen 🤷‍♂️

[distant acorn]

????, I don't understand what you're talking about, I'm saying that I can't get past 6 levels on 8 (that week), and as far as I understand, you're telling me that I'm at the bottom of the list because of the statistics? I want to clarify this thing

[native plaza]

It's 3 games in a row bottom tier the next one is guaranteed to not be

[proud harbor]

I mean its no surprise that tier 8 and tier 9 get the short end of the stick during +2-2. There is no tier higher than 10 so they will always be top tier and drag lower tiers into the matchups. During +1-1 tier 8 gets favorable mm since tier 9 gets put with 10s so again, no surprise tier 7 mostly sees tier 8 games during +1-1.

[native plaza]

As long as it's the same tier

[autumn light]

I have a feeling you may be meaning something else and non-native EN is causing confusion.
why did I get caught at level 8 for 3 days in a row against level 10
Here you said you were bottom tier for 3 days, Tier 8 in tier 10 games solid for 3 days. What i am saying is that is both not something impacted by the MM changes this thread is about, and is also impossible with the existing MM rules.

But it seems your "bottom of the list" you are talking about where you finished in the scoreboard? In which case, MM has 0 ability to control that, only you do. MM could intentionally give you the worst team mates possible and it wouldn't make you do no damage

[proud harbor]

He is a good player, I think he is just talking about the tier spread

[autumn light]

i was thinking tier spread at first, but then the reply confused me 😅 so now i'm not sure lol

[proud harbor]

Yeah I get the confusion. I just know him from comp and checked his stats. He is playing O-Ni and doing well, but yeah probably just frustrated that he isnt seeing top tier very much with so many tier 8s about.

[distant acorn]

The first version was correct, but can I find out more about how this system works?

[autumn light]

To clarify @distant acorn the MM changes being discussed in this thread is purely related to the "sorting" of the 30 players once the team is selected. That was the only change. The process of selecting the 30 players, what tanks, tiers, etc has remained mostly the same since pair/mirrored MM was introduced. The only time that process (the selecting 30 players) has changed is this week's +-1 mm

[distant acorn]

Maybe I'm messing with myself.

[distant acorn]

Sorry for any misunderstandings related to the translation.

[autumn light]

i'll try keep is as TLDR as i can

There is 2 steps
Step 1, picking the 30 players, this is done by finding 15 pairs according to a set of MM rules
Step 2, sorting the 30 players, by selecting which team each half of the 15 pairs goes to.

Step 1, i don't know enough to comment on much, but basically it looks at things like time in queue, platoons, class, tier, etc and tries to take 30 people out as fast as possible and leaving them in the queue as little time as possible.

Step 2 works as follows:

• Pair 1 has their stats looked at, run through a formula and creates a score for each. Player 1 gets put on team 1, player 2 on team 2. It then subtracts the scores from each other and creates a delta
• Pair 2 and their stats are then looked at, and run through the same formula. They are then compared and it will put the player on the team that results in the delta between the 2 teams being reduced.
• Repeat for pairs 3 to 15

Step 2 was where the changes this thread was discussing took place. Step 1 is impacted by the +-1mm test

So because Step 2 can only take place AFTER the tanks/tiers/etc are selected, it is impossible for them to have impacted that aspect

Hope that helps clear things up 🙂

[distant acorn]

Yes, thank you

[stray star]

unreal how i went from 70-80% wr to 45

all of my losses have been steamrolls too

kinda depressing to lose out on damage because my team just folds in 4 seconds

[autumn light]

30 games in over 3 months is hardly a good sample to create a realistic expectation. It seems from here that since the 2nd change most people's experience has improved

[cunning dew]

well one of my clan mates who was commenting here before had a 50% winate with 250 games. he was regulary a 67% winrate player. im sure he still has the screenshots

-17% is a ton, and with that winrate he still had 5.5k wn8😂 . so he was doing well but his teams were dogsh**

[autumn light]

I did say most 😅

[cunning dew]

every average player improved. but good players have been screwed. however if you give us +1-1 matchmaking i can live with the sbmm😊

[autumn light]

But your win rate went up? And your clans past 90 days and 30 day average win rate are pretty close to the all time.

And only 1 player has a sub 59% win rate, and that's with 50 battles in 90 days, and with over 100 in past 30 they're 58% at worst. So if someone had 200 battles from the group and was at 50%, they have since played more and seen a 9% or more improvement since that point which would require multiple very high win rate sessions to achieve

For clarity, not saying the experience is fantastic, but a quick check at stats doesn't entirely reflect data side of your point about losing. Those are 2 very different things (experience VS data/numbers)

[fleet elm]

I mean the current iteration is about how much worse teams and winrate we can stomach

[proud harbor]

From my experience its been much better

[cunning dew]

Mine went up because ive been 3 man platooning in tier 6😭. We had a 90% winrate with that. However my tier 10 winrate, what i play most and most competitive tier has went down a few %. I will say tho it definitely better than how it was when it was first implemented. The player i was talking about is up now after the update and is about at 60%

I been playing other tiers to avoid the matchmaking. But it is better than it was

[autumn light]

The feedback from those affected most in this thread has been far more positive was my only comment, and even during the recent mm test the issues with the sorting change seem to be even less

[autumn light]

That's something I guess 😅

[viscid gorge]

Are most of those solo? I've noticed mine improves dramatically as soon as I have 1 platoonmate

[cunning dew]

However our clan 30 days is lower than lifetimes. This usually should never happen as you only get better at the game

[proud harbor]

For the most part yes. I platooned with some SHAIM guys but they might as well be randoms

[cunning dew]

Usually the 30 day should be about 4-5% higher than thw lifetimes

[fleet elm]

From the last test or before the tests? It’s obviously an improvement from the last test but should still result in lower winrates from random matchmaking

[viscid gorge]

Okay

[proud harbor]

Those are just my current numbers. 30 day would be mostly after the changes because I stopped playing before.

[cunning dew]

This goes for 1F as well. The 2 top clans from wotstars have less winrate in the 30 days than for lifetime stats

I think thay definitely says it's making it harder for good players to win

[digital orchid]

Mine has slowly gone down again. (I was up to 62% which is my solo career average), despite this, it still feels better than before, after the “patch” was applied after our complaints

Still not perfect, but I’ll take it compared to when I was hitting 52% with the first set of changes lmao

[proud harbor]

Those are unweighted though. Only 7 of the 21 people in 1F have below that average in recents and 5 of those have <100 battles.

[cunning dew]

Ok but look at the other clans in the top 10. They are still almost all lower than the lifetimes

Or they are the same as the lifetimes. They should almost always be atleast a few % higher

[proud harbor]

Some people do peak. Not saying that is the case, but expecting recents to be a few % higher is sometimes unrealistic. Its hard to look at overall data because there are a lot of factors.

Its much easier to compare data of people that were playing right before and after these changes.

[cunning dew]

Understandable but what im saying is before the update most were higher, my clan included

Ive watched this stuff way to closely. I have to life😭

[native plaza]

Played little to no platoons, I would say it's way better than the first update. Still having tons of steam rolls but most can be explained through bad tank match up, imbalanced map spawns, teammates making questionable rotations. But I'm seeing less teammates do zero on AVG

[uneven shoal]

Not sure if the +/-1 is causing issues, but it definitely feels like teams are worse during the test. I like playing +/-1, but these teams are back to the "good player dies so team auto loses"

[manic galleon]

It has always been like this

[digital orchid]

Bad players coming back for +1-1. To be expected I think. Win rate should go back up now it’s gone

[vale maple]

It's now just a camp fest now with new update

[tame rampart]

This matchmaking is a piece of s…

[uneven shoal]

It’s always worse on update day

[late forge]

Haven't played as many games as others, but my win rate is still relatively poor during both iterations of the updated matchmaker. In my experience, matches tend to be either total steam rolls or very close. Overall, my teammates come across as generally more clueless than before the updates. Roughly the same amount of people hitting 0's.
I have been grinding the T9 Chinese rocket heavy a bit (~70 games, 57% wr), so my impact on the game with this thing is probably much less than if I were playing better tanks.

Seeing more games go down to the wire is fun, but having consistently worse teammates isn't

[near pawn]

Can we please have +1 -1 back this crap sucks. Can't wait for my tier 7 to drop into a tier 9 match.

[digital orchid]

Teams are more stupid than ever tanks to these new accuracy changes

Ofc artillery still hits you with perfect accuracy from 500m

[zinc summit]

Good god, just kill this garbage sbmm already. This dev team could ruin a wet dream.

[proper valley]

Man I said stuff like this would happen

Wot players aren't great. Some of may even say out right stupid. So how about we worsen the accuracy while having a skill based match maker. Making the useless players even more useless because they can't hit for squat, and the higher skill players have to carry harder

[formal pilot]

id rather not give crap players a handicap

[paper anvil]

Don't forget that aiming is hard so they auto aim 24/7 XD

[minor glacier]

Qaulity of life for the core players/super unis is really terrible now. The game is enjoyable when you are winning and moving marks, right now these things are in short supply. Going to take a substantial break from the game .

[candid fable]

7 matches 6 defeats
👍👍👍

[near pawn]

Yeah anyone with above a 50% win rate is getting smacked with a hammer to the knee. It feels awful. I have resorted to playing CW.

[digital orchid]

Battlefield 6 tomorrow 🔥

[paper anvil]

Bro wrong chat XD.... but

https://tenor.com/view/battlefield-6-war-gaming-game-time-soldier-gif-15674735123327699141

[ocean reef]

The matchmaking is atrocious. If you are a good player then every match is a sweat fest. Consistently had a 3500 WN8 today with tier 8 and 10 but have a losing record. If I have to sweat every match to win the game, it loses its appeal and is no longer fun. It’s seems DEI has made it to world of tanks and we must “lift up” players with low win rates. Random matchmaking is a must. What part of +1/-1 is awesome does WOT not understand?

[ocean reef]

Random matchmaking is a must. Skill based matchmaking ruins it for everyone that plays well. Now every battle is a grind.

I am unsatisfied with the product. It is not providing much value. +1/-1 was the only change necessary to the game. Instead WOT focuses on skills, equipment, skill based matchmaking. The product they provide is worse and brings less fun. If I do not have fun then I will not spend money.

25k battles and this is the least fun that I have had.

[near pawn]

Yup I played alot last week and even spent some money. Had fun grinding WW2 tech trees and this week I'm back to cold war and if it wasn't for my friends I probably wouldn't be playing.

[ocean reef]

Wow matchmaking is broken. Payed 5 matches. 4400 WN8. 1 win out of five. WOT is really focused on leveling all win rates.

[ocean reef]

Matchmaking is officially fixed to decrease people’s winrates down to 50% worst updates. Zero replay value.

[ocean reef]

Players with a high win rate can now only win if they sweat and completely carry the team each time. I play this game for fun. If I have to sweat every game then the fun is eliminated.

[wooden snow]

please stop with the copy paste sir

[lament mica]

Admire the spirit but not the execution lol

[ocean reef]

Everything that I say is a fact. I point out areas of the game that I personally dislike and bring ideas on how to fix it and improve the game. After all the messages I have posted not one person has replied back with a counter argument…..

[lament mica]

I disagree. Not everything is fact but is your opinion. 🙃

[wooden snow]

right message wrong messenger

[near pawn]

I liked it better when you where more likely to win based on skill as opposed to MM stacking the game against you because how dare you win more than 50% of your matches.

[proper valley]

I can't really say much

Because my Win rate is average.

Or. Slightly above average 52%

But does it go based off your career or recent win rate

The only reason I ask is becauze.

Some of the people who play the game are so bad I genuinely wonder how they gathered up the brain cells to press "install"

[cunning dew]

Yes I wonder the same

[low knoll]

the current player matchmaking is terrible. I seem to get stuck with a herd of lemmings that all take off to one place, give up 3/4 of the map -> or just sit in the base and camp. There aren't enough good players on the teams to show / help out the weaker players on where to go and how to play the map. The current system is deliberately inserting bias against good players, and distorting the game play & experience. Most matches suck compared to previous. As many have said, the player matchmaking needs to be 100% random with no bias/distortion/metric weighting/"thumb on the scale" influences.

[near pawn]

This is how it is affecting me and it would be worse but after losing a bunch of games I usually switch to cold war.

My career used to be at 65% and I changed nothing about the way I play. Just tired of getting screwed.

[proper valley]

A KD ratio of 4.47

What are you?

John tanker?

[unreal hound]

Reroll more likely with 1300 battles

[autumn light]

The majority of your battles look to be in Cold War, where absolutely nothing changed, these were purely ww2 changes.

And then your wins in ww2 are largely sub tier 7, and show a clear trend of as you go up a tier your win rate and wn8 go down. So it looks like going up tiers in ww2 has the biggest impact on your stats, and not the mm

[near pawn]

Switched from PS to Xbox a few years ago and since you know every other game let's your stuff transfer but WG is to cheap to work that out I had to start over.

[autumn light]

Please name all these other 12 year old games that let you transfer accounts between platforms 🙂

[near pawn]

Most of my games are in CW since it doesn't have sbmm. If you dig deeper you will see I like grinding tanks a tier at the time and have about idk 80% tier 5s unlocked. Soon to start on tier 6. Also you should try being competitive in a stock tier 7 in a tier 9 match. Look how many 6 and 7 games I played last week with +1 -1. I also don't play a lot of premium tanks other than CW to make silver so most of my tier 8, 9 and 10 premiums have 0 games.

[near pawn]

Well it would seem with everything that was changed with 6.0 that could have been a feature. Another missed opertunity.

[autumn light]

That's almost my point. From your own description you were playing stock tanks grinding. Stock tanks are by definition weaker, and so you will have less impact. A far more likely thing to impact win rate

[near pawn]

If you look at my end of battle reports you can see I do better than 90% of the players even in a stock tank and I'm not bragging I could care less I just don't like the odds stacked against me. The problem I have is with Sbmm if someone on the other team has good stats like me but are in a meta or OP tank or in a higher tier tank does that not give that team an edge in the match? Unless I am misunderstanding how MM works. Say I'm playing a tier 7 in a match with a few tier 8s. If there better player I'm supposed to be matched with is in a tier 8 and I'm in a 7 then they have the advantage.

Double the advantage if I'm grinding a stock tank.

I love the game I really do and I want it to last forever but that relies on players and staff. I just hope things make a turn for the better with everything even if it goes against my opinions.

[autumn light]

Sony and Microsoft are not overly keen on it and for much of the games life haven't allowed (certainly by default) the moving of accounts. To give some scale, one of Sony's first official rules allowing cross progression were posted this year lol. So if it was even remotely as simple as you seem to be assuming we'd have done it.

[wooden snow]

why are you guys so stuck on this new mm

I went for 55% 30 days down to 53% cause of players I get save me rng

like its not fun logging in and first 4 games i get are just insant losses where 5 people do less than a 1k damage and die in the first 2 minutes

or or or they they forget map control exists so we just lose cause nobody wants to go back to base

[autumn light]

The mm doesn't care about your stats, in either mode. The pair sorting change was that win rate was added to how the teams are sorted (in ww2 only) after the 30 players are decided.

My point was just that there is a clear trend in both ww2 and cw where you are winning less as you go up the tiers. From your own description that could easily be related to playing stock vehicles. This trend is in both ww2 and cw, so given there is no changes to cw it seems unlikely the sorting system was the cause

[wooden snow]

hell i had a 13 105 100 meters in front of a rhino refuse to stop him from capping a base and refused to help me attempt to decap for zero reason

we were winning btw

and the 13 105 threw the match for what

sat in a bush right in front of him the whole game

these are the creatures I have to deal with almost every day its effecting my stats so badly that somtimes i cant have fun anymore

like the tweaks have made not happen every time but im not gonna have fun having a decent game of 5k damage and all of them are losses

[autumn light]

All of these things you are describing happen regardless of anything we do to the mm. And your issue with it happens is kind of related to the point of the changes.

You are looking at small scale match by match examples and with no real comparison. As was said in the stream where the changes to the formula were announced, steam rolls went down and battle times went up. So across all battles played by everyone games got longer and closer. Which is reducing the issues you are blaming currently on the changes. But they do still happen and they happened before, nothing can change that.

The changes made 0 impact on who is in your game, so the player would have made that bad play regardless of any changes, the only thing that changed is the spread of ability between the 2 teams. Which has factually resulted in less times where battles are uneven. So there is no "we are doing this and only ever this" as is literally shown by that we changed it once already based on a combo of feedback and it not changing things as much as we would like.

[wooden snow]

so i ask of you

what do you guys plan on doing to change mm

cause its not fun at all

thats my main problem

its not fun

also off topic but is there any chance that shared modules will ever return

cause pc and blitz have them

[autumn light]

The other side of that though is, are you focusing on things that already happened because you are now looking for it. Because it's just a given these things you dislike will happen, we can never stop it. But if our data shows it is happening less and what players keep asking for is happening less (steam rolls + shorter battles) then it creates some more complicated questions about what to do next.

[autumn light]

PC removed them

Not sure blitz does have them, I'd have to check

But never say never, but as long as we have LVP it's unlikely.

But as you said, off topic and let's keep it on topic 🙂

Can always ask outside of here

[ocean reef]

Matchmaker is still in full DEI mode today. The goal is to make everyone’s winrate 50%. If you have a high skill level WOT will place you on a potato team each time. Played a tier 10 match where 8 of my teammates got either zero damage of less than 1000. Even worse is when the highest skill level on your team are tier 8’s and the opposing team has their highest skill level at tier 10’s. DEI is in full effect.

WOT is solely focused on having everyone at a 50% winrate.

Make match making completely random when it comes to skill level/winrate. This is the only fair way to play. Matches where people win because of their level of play rather than WOT purposefully stacking one team over another. If every game has to be a sweat fest in order to win than the enjoyment and replay value decreases.

[near pawn]

I really wish they would push +1 -1 it would help the bad players as well. Hell recently I've had team mates that I wish I could replace with bots at least the participate.

[near pawn]

Fortnite, Call of Duty, Your direct competition (The one that we can't talk about), Overwatch, Valorant. Plenty of others but you get my point. I can play any of them on my pc, Xbox, ps and have all my progress transfer. It's 2025 but I also understand that it would cost development time and you wouldn't have idiots like me spending money all over again. I would imagine a lot of players have quit over that in the past. Ik this is off topic though so I will drop it. I was only originally pointing that out as to why I had a new account.

[wooden snow]

cod and fortnite are not wargamings competition nor are any fps

its just war thunder

[ocean reef]

WOT is focused on leveling all winrates to 50%. I have played 25k battles and these changes have pushed my frustration over the top. Instead of focusing on the three things most players want: +1/-1 matchmaking, only one arty per team, random matchmaking that is not skill/wr based they focused on how can we make everyone’s winrate 50%and make the customer spend more money on equipment

[wooden snow]

cause the other one armored warfare died a long time ago

literally its you either play warthunder or world of tanks

and even then war thunder is completely different mechanically and gameplay wise

[ocean reef]

Never tried war thunder but its time to try.

[wooden snow]

have fun getting blown up by a revenge bombing f4u cossair

like your not gonna get that same itch from playing wt

[ocean reef]

Personally WOT has been my go to game for years. I definitely play less over the past month or two. These changes are pushing me to play less.

[near pawn]

I only speak up because I love WOT and I am very passionate about it even though now that I spoke up my RNG is gonna be terrible lol. (JK)

[ocean reef]

If you don’t speak up the game will continue to get worse by trying to make everyone’s winrate equal. 50%.

[near pawn]

@autumn light Also thank you for putting up with us on a Sunday. I really appreciate everything you do for us and talking with the community not a lot of people take the time to do so.

[autumn light]

• Fortnite came out in 2017 and does not have account transfers, think it has cross progression
• Call of Duty is released every year or 2, also does not have account transfer
• Overwatch does not have account transfer, you can MERGE and get some cross progression but that's in the 2nd one which came out in 2022
• Valorant also does not have account transfer but does have cross progression, also came out in 2020

So none of them have account transfers, and not one of them came out in 2014. Crossplay for example was famously "turned on by accident" in 2017 for the first time between consoles after being denied to even be possible up until that point. So the fundamentals of the game were literally designed/made when it was not possible and so it's possible core parts of the game code would need to change. And as i also mentioned, even those sort of things have been done on a case by case basis until this year 😅

[autumn light]

as i've said in other places, i appreciate that even the saltiest of salt is because people care. And i'd rather people were salty/ranting/apoplectic coz they care than be apathetic and say nothing

[ocean reef]

Hello Heat, what has the general response been from customers about the recent changes? Has it been mostly positive or negative? Have you seen an increase or decrease in matches being played daily? Have you seen an increase or decrease in revenue?

When I say recent I mean the changes over the past month.

[autumn light]

Overall i'd say there is more positive than negative feedback, but there is a lot of "loud" feedback from the negative while a lot of the positive is "quieter". And then in terms of numbers, they are not getting worse as some have claimed 🙂 Obviously not going to discuss revenue numbers either 😅

[ocean reef]

Thanks for the response. I have truly enjoyed this game over the past few years. I am personally disappointed with the matchmaking. But thanks again for responding.

[autumn light]

on this, if you don't stop posting off topic stuff everywhere i'll ask the moderators to take a look. And please go to the MM threads and read some of info there about how the changes work, because your understanding of them seems to be fundamentally flawed, and then ask any questions or give any feedback you have in the appropriate places

[ocean reef]

Are you a moderator or part of WOT?

[autumn light]

i'm staff, i stay out of moderating so there can be no claims of bias

the most i can do is say "go look at that" or "i think they are going to far". And then i leave it up to the mods to actually take action if they think it is required

[ocean reef]

Are you saying that WOT is not trying to get everyone’s WR down to 50%?

[autumn light]

my bad, sunday and sleep deprived lol... The warning stands of please stop posting it in other places lol

[ocean reef]

Are you saying WOT is not trying to implement a matchmaking system in order to decrease the WR of high Winrate players?

[ocean reef]

Sure thing.

The matchmaking system that places high winrate players at a disadvantage is part of this season correct?

[autumn light]

but no, it does not. As was explained in here, a true SBMM picks people from the MM queue with the aim of making the group of people in that game as "close" to each others ability as possible. This results in a very small distribution curve staying close to 50%, and then uses other metrics to move people to face similar ability people.. Stuff like ranks or points or something like that. We do not do that, nor have any system like that.

The way our system works is it takes people from the queue based on the class, tier and how long they have been in the queue. It is only after the 30 have been selected and put into the game does any sorting happen. This system has been in place for a very long time in WW2, but last season the formula for this sorting started to take into account win rate as well, and then half way through the season it was adjusted based on feedback.

[ocean reef]

So it was modified to focus on winrate. When it was “adjusted” it did not go back to where it was previously correct? When you say winrate do you mean winrate of that specific tank or the players overall winrate?

[unreal hound]

I love the good old crossplay by ps 2 and xbox 360 for FFXI in 2006 ah the good old times . Funy that MS and Sony waited a decade to do it again

[ocean reef]

So it is still focused on winrate. Please clarify “adjusted”

[lament mica]

Back to previous would have been where it considered only the number of games played. So it balanced teams by games played.

[ocean reef]

GP are you an employee of WOT? Just so I know who is responding.

[cursive tinsel]

Red tags= WG
Green tags= xbox
Blue= PS

[ocean reef]

So you are just an XBOX player. So you really don’t know that matchmaking went back to previous.

[cursive tinsel]

WG explained how the previous iteration of 'Not quite SBMM, but kinda SBMM' worked

[ocean reef]

From the silence and lack of response I am getting from HeatResistantBFG matchmaking is still focused more on winrates than before the matchmaking changes a month or so ago.

[cursive tinsel]

SPG came here and explained what it was taking into considering in its first iteration

But its like, way way up in this thread

[ocean reef]

Exactly, and winrates still impact matchmaking more than before and ultimately make players with high winrates sweat each battle in order to get a victory.

The goal is to level all winrates to 50%

The goal should not be to level all winrates to 50% through modified matchmaking. It should be to provide more value to the customer. My ideas are +1/-1 matchmaking, decrease arty to 1 per team, and random matchmaking that does not take “skill”, winrate, or some other metric into consideration.

[ocean reef]

Random matchmaking not based on winrate, skill, or some other metric is the best. You have matches where you win big, lose big, or are close. Now, if you have a high winrate it is a sweatfest that requires you to carry the team or lose each time.

Very disappointed customer.

[lament mica]

Insofar as anyone knows anything, before they started using win rate, they used games played to try and balance the teams.

[near pawn]

For what it's worth I am very happy with the changes during the last update but having experienced pre 6.0 ik that makes my opinion different compared to people who have only played since then.

[autumn light]

tbh i just came back to reply after taking care of my 4 month old, but ngl if you're attitude that i should be replying instantly at like 11pm on a Sunday then to be honest you can wait until Work hours to get anything 🙂 Enjoy

[ocean reef]

Still no answer to the customers question. Very unprofessional response. From your “response” it is clear winrates play a large part in matchmaking. Thank you!

[lament mica]

Don’t be a donkey

[unreal hound]

Dude you got your answer ! You may not like it and how you spend your money is a you thing. But dont be a 8 year old and cry 24/7 you have told how you feel.

[autumn light]

tbf i haven't actually answered the follow up question, but that can wait until work hours like all normal workplace interactions 🙂

[ocean reef]

I bring opportunities for improvements. Feedback to make the product better for the customer. You bring no original thoughts or ideas.

[ocean reef]

Can’t answer the question. This is why WOT has so many unhappy customers.

[cursive tinsel]

Dude. Its a weekend. People have to rest. To be honest, getting any WGC staff to respond over a weekend is lucky half the time.

[ocean reef]

If it’s the weekend and he’s is off work then why is he answering questions?

[cursive tinsel]

Its also like, near midnight for him so drop the attitude

[ocean reef]

Seems like questions are answered when the response is easy.

[cursive tinsel]

Because maybe he's speaking with other peope and getting @ at every response you do.

[unreal hound]

not to him personally but it was said like 50 times in the thread if he would take more time reading and less ranting he maybe would have seen it. MM was changed some are happy some are not that the MM now takes winrate from the player overall and in a tank in consideration:
WG wont share the details like with the first update but nothing we can do about it i hope that sums it up 😄

[ocean reef]

When the question is difficult then “it’s the weekend”? lol.

[autumn light]

fair, but i understand not everyone wants to read through the literally thousands of things here 😄

[cursive tinsel]

Question? Do you work weekends?

[autumn light]

no, when the attitude of "you didn't reply instantly there for blah blah" you can do one. I reply here on the weekend of my own free will. I had to walk away from my laptop to look after my child, who seemingly at 4 months has more sense than you.

[cursive tinsel]

And outside of your actually scheduled works hours do you answer messages or a phone call from work?

[unreal hound]

Nah i bet he never heard of it i bet he is either still in school or has some other issues

[ocean reef]

lol. Discord is 24/7.

[cursive tinsel]

And work is?

The WG staff are on about contract. No different to any other workplace

[ocean reef]

This thread is about matchmaking. Please stay on topic.

[cursive tinsel]

Says you

[stray star]

🤡

[cursive tinsel]

Stop being a brat and expecting responses near enough immediately and outside staff's working hours like you deserve it.

[near pawn]

He answered all my questions even when I was being hot headed and I leaned a few things I didn't know. Like I said earlier too it's the weekend and if he is off work he doesn't have to be on here at all.

Don't disrespect the one person at WG talking to us and giving us info. They don't have to do that and there has been plenty of times they haven't. Even if I don't get the answer I would like it's still nice to know someone cares enough to chat and debate with us. So don't be nasty.

[ocean reef]

Asking questions is not disrespectful. You will be ok. Please stay on topic. Matchmaking is the topic.

[near pawn]

Lol

[silent tendon]

This matchmaking is so terrible man like why am i going up against tier 10 and my team has 0 brain activity. I've just had a 705A camp behind the city on open field instead of supporting the team in the city. I've also had 3players yolo a 1hp jagdtiger and all died 😮‍💨

[copper sparrow]

Simple: Get rid of this garbage!

[errant saddle]

I like it keep it this way.

[lament mica]

You are being unprofessional. 🙃

[visual gorge]

Let’s think about the long term statistics of the MM.

1. If the “perfect” (high WR) players statistics are becoming lower and closer to 50% WR and the noob players statistics are getting raised closer to 50% WR then the MM is actually working correctly, mathematically speaking.

2. The “statistics” or WR that defines good players versus mediocre players is just being redefined. So a 70% WR player will now still be a good player but the WR that distinguishes them from mediocre players will be a lower WR. For example, instead of 70% WR being the definition of a top player it will be a significantly lower number like 55% WR. Conversely, a mediocre player will be still around a 45% WR.

If you are a top player, your skills still have not changed. You now have to work harder to prove your statistics. As the statistics become closer to the 50% WR between top players and mediocre players, then the top players will still have higher WRs it will just be a more balanced statistical number.

In conclusion, stop whining and keep proving your true skill. Adapt like the top players you are.

[cunning dew]

Na ima keep complaining till they fix it

As you can see it has 135 upvotes

Most ive seen in a while. Alot of people want it changed

Not just too players. I could do 15k damage in ww2 and still loose cause my teamates suck. Tell me how I adapt to that or try harder. Its impossible

Even 53% players are complaining about it. It lowered them even more. Not just the 65+% players

[visual gorge]

If it is changed, then the using the snake method of selection like Gambit mentioned is what I would like it to go back to being.

[cunning dew]

It was fine before. Idk why theu had to change it

I actually like to win games

I went from a 70% to 64%. May not sound like alot but im trying to maintain the highest possible

When the update first went live i was a 57% for about a month

Also that was my tier 10 winrate. I can tell you its not thay now. Ive taken a break from tier 10 because of this matchmaking

[visual gorge]

The fact is that the statistics that now define top players has changed. The damage rate will mean more than the WR. The top players ALWAYS place routinely in the top 5 regardless of whether their team actually wins.

[cunning dew]

But who cares about that if you cant win the game? Anyone can sit in the back and farm damage. Same way wn8 is farmed

So now you cant tell who is actually good

[visual gorge]

The top players are still going to have higher WRs, it is just going to be a lower number now as the statistical sample size increases with the current MM system.

[cunning dew]

Winrate couldn't rly be farmed, where as wn8/ damage can be

[cunning dew]

Or just revert it?? Why deal with a dumb system people hate?

Any person even slightly above average gets screwed

The better you ate the higher your screwed

[visual gorge]

I hate seal clubbing. I would rather play against the top players than have them on my team.

[cunning dew]

Another thing to add. Its so frustrating doing so much damage and carrying so hard just to loose. Not enjoyable at all

[cunning dew]

It pretty much effects any tier anyways. Ima be going back to tier 10 as thats my most played tier

[visual gorge]

All of you top players, go ahead and be on one team. I will take all of the mediocre players!

[cunning dew]

Whats that supposed to mean lol

[wooden snow]

he wants to lose every games

[ocean reef]

Significantly decreased my game time this past weekend due to the matchmaking bias of the game. Will continue to play less until this is resolved.

WOT is focused on making everyone a 50% WR player and punishes those with anything higher. If I have to sweat every battle in order to win due to a “fixed” matchmaking system it eliminates the fun. Why play?

[ocean reef]

My play has not changed. Usually in the top 5 each battle with a high DR. I also enjoy winning. Most people enjoy winning. When the game specifically alters matchmaking to place high winrate players at a disadvantage that is a problem.

[ocean reef]

In conclusion I will give my feedback in this thread. Do not tell people to stop “whining”. Focus on the topic and ideas to make this game better instead of being rude and making it personal.

[lilac mantle]

Career if you look at profile in-game
Recent win rate is seen on wotstars

[proper valley]

Good to know!

[ocean reef]

Most people that ask others to stop “whining “usually have a low enough winrate to see minimal impact to their matchmaking. Let’s look at WOT STARS. ….yep.

[unreal hound]

Easy winrate farming play with 2 super unis , play op tanks, play low tier,

[unreal hound]

As long as you are not showing your own Profile be silent

[wooden snow]

quit being ignorant bro this a feedback thread for criticism not a thread to just do nothing but give positive feeback

[autumn light]

So the way the sorting worked is it looked at battles played and used this to assign points value to the player, it then compared each pair to see what the difference in these points is and create a "delta", then every pair it compared these points/delta and assigned people to the team to minimise that delta.

Due to complaints over the past 12 years that steamrolls/fast battles kept happening because sometimes teams would get 4 very higher win rate players on 1 team and 0-2 on the other, win rate was then added to the points calculation. It doesn't "focus" on win rate, it simply added it, and some combo of points, weighting and brackets were changed part way through the season. And we didn't release more info than this on the changes, currently.

So the system doesn't aim to make your win rate 50% like a SBMM, it aims to make games last longer and steamrolls happen less by making the team distribution more even. The system doesn't care if you win 60%, 50% or 40% of the time or not as an individual and does not try to put only similar ability players together. Due to teams being "more balanced" it likely would result in a narrowing of the distribution curve, but nowhere near to the extent of a SBMM - and the changes made specifically tried to take into account the feedback raised by high win rate players and the impact it was having on them and their games.

This of course means that nothing is final, and based off sentiment, feedback and results we'll look at whether more changes are needed, whether the system works as intended or if a different system is required.

[native plaza]

I'm surprised you don't have this as a copy pasta at this point

In all seriousness, I noticed stream rolls still occur but they are a lot more enjoyable as the games ain't over in 3 minutes (I know this kinda is irrelevant to mm, but the last changes also had a positive effect on the experience) personally I think mm is in a fine spot for the moment and wouldn't want any adjustments until we see auto aim/lock changes, hopefully the next test is limiting classes per team to 5 tds 2 lights

[lament mica]

Wasn’t fine before btw—you just did not have enough games on account to be as adversely affected by the games played sorting. 2nd generation of win rate hasn’t even had a clean month yet.

[cunning dew]

Wym didn't have enough games?

Its getting close to 90 days so you cant rly see my winrate before. It was 70%. I usually have 800+ games a month

Like always

[native plaza]

Erm kinda disagree, only with the last changes, have they brought it back to a similar level before any mm changes

[lament mica]

When you get up there around 60-70-80-90-100k games you would see how many brand new players you would get, meanwhile there would be several 20k super unis on the other team. Talk about depressing no chance.

[native plaza]

That's not how it worked

It matched up people based on battle counts and other stuff

[lament mica]

Literally just a couple posts up

[native plaza]

Yes but it has to do with how they split the teams not to do with queues

It's the same sorting system

Just has more filters now

[lament mica]

Never said anything about queue. If you (as a high games player) had a lobby with several new players and also super unis on lower battle counts and you (the high games player) were way about (*above) battles played, you (high games player) got the new players while the 20k super unis were all on the other team. I saw it enough.

[native plaza]

You literally said you wouldn't see new players

[cunning dew]

20k is not considered a new player??

Thats not how this thing works

[lament mica]

What are you reading? Use names instead of pronouns maybe?

[lament mica]

How it worked previously. We don’t need to go backwards because it had even worse weirdness.

[native plaza]

It was a sorting system, that sorted people into pairs based on overall battles then it would randomly give one of the pairs to each team

The was/is other factors but battles was the main one

Unless you are confusing super unis with rerolls, I don't understand your point

[autumn light]

I think what @lament mica is saying that because the old system only used battle count, the same feedback high win rate players brought up with this thread was actually happening to high battle count players. Where high battle count players were being "countered" by very low battle count players to make up for their high points delta. And then pointing out that it's likely that a low battle count player will not have a high win rate, so effectively the older system would "punish" the high battle count player in the same way high win rate players feel they were/are getting "punished" with the newer MM

Correct me if i'm wrong GP, but trying to summarise and clear the confusion as this convo appears to be going around in circles with neither side understanding what the other is saying 😅

[native plaza]

I get that but super unis with 20k + battles were never paired with new players

With less than 20k battles

[cunning dew]

I see. Just wondering why are people with the most games some of the worst😂. Like if you ever look on wot stars most (not all) of the players with over 100k games are bad lol. Not saying all are bad tho

[fleet elm]

It's necessary in this case I think to point out where the cutoff for battle count sorting was. IIRC, someone said that everybody over ~10kish battles was treated the same

[native plaza]

I was told a lot higher than that

[lament mica]

If you came in the queue and were a pair you were sorted to different teams. Not saying 100 game players but 3k, 5k, with barely any experience in tier. And all I am saying is, let’s continue to improve and not go backwards to what was because the purely random ship sailed long ago.

[lament mica]

Yes exactly

[native plaza]

I'm more addressing this point

[lament mica]

I think Gambit has over 100k, which with his win rate and games played—would hate to see his mm on the first Gen of win rate based. 😱

[native plaza]

I believe the ranges were 5k 10k 20k 30k 40k 50k+

For total battles

[fleet elm]

Above 10-20k battles, it's all the same skill wise. You either figured it out or you didn't, there's nothing experience is gonna gain you. So, for the distribution of good players, it was, for intents and purposes, random

[lament mica]

Heat spelled it. Not sure what point you are trying to make at this point.

Games played is a worse divider than win rate. Let’s not go backwards because to just games played.

[cunning dew]

Hes literally the only good 1 over 100k😂. But yea hes very good

[native plaza]

I'm saying that how it used to work, not saying if it was good or bad

[autumn light]

valid point, i actually am not sure what the brackets were tbh 😄 and not sure if we shared them lol. But i was just trying to make GP's point understood so it didn't just keep go around in circles 😄

[bleak oriole]

The brackets changed several times over the time that the feature was live.

[viscid gorge]

What was the maximum cutoff like Nate suggested?

If you know

[native plaza]

Both systems have flaws, personally think the current version of this mm with new changes is a similar experience/enjoyment to the old mm

[bleak oriole]

The version before we started to also consider win rate capped out at 2k battles.

The goal was to make sure that the players who were very new to the game didn't end up on the same team in a Tier X team.

Which it did a decent job at when there was an even number of them. However, not much can be done where it's an odd number.

[autumn light]

I would argue, that if game time increased and there is less streamrolls, but the experience is "about the same" then that is a small win. Ideally it'd feel better, but often when you're talking likes like "on average, there was 2 more people alive" or "on average, games lasted 30s longer" it's not something that is easily felt by the individual and certainly not at any speed. And those numbers are made up 😄 just in case lol

[viscid gorge]

So someone with 2K battles was equal to someone with 100K before?

[native plaza]

Mm changes can only really be defined by how you feel though imo

[autumn light]

it's both the data and the feel. Perception = reality is the thing i repeat all the time. But that applies to the singular user. And you can't do wide scale/macro things based purely on that. But at the same time if you don't take that micro into account you can mess up. So it's the combo of quantitative and qualitative that create the best results/outcomes.

[cursive tinsel]

I was about to type your favorite one liner BG 😅

[bleak oriole]

anyone with more than 2k account battles was treated the same for which team they would get assigned to - so for a lot of matches, it was basically random ordering because eveyrone had that

[native plaza]

As a player we don't have access to that huge amount of data, I'm more on about from a player side

[viscid gorge]

Okay, so 100K battles played players were not actually treated similarly to high winrate players now

Or, as severely as high winrate players now

[native plaza]

I'm very interested to see the effect of the equipment & skill changes have had on battle times and stream rolls, as a player I feel these have had the biggest impact.

[native plaza]

It's basically a whole new system

Not as simple as win rate

There are tons of filters as well

[viscid gorge]

I know, but I swear someone was saying that people with lots of battles played were already getting treated this way in MM

Which clearly seems not the case if it the brackets cap at 2000 games

[native plaza]

They had different caps that was just the last one like mrSpg said

[cursive tinsel]

Yeah the QoL changes were going to be the biggest playing factor in the how big a jump game times and steamrolls were going to change. Thats why the order of the testing MM, then doing the QoL stuff was bizarre to me. Will be intresting to see how they level out now after say a month and a bit.

[viscid gorge]

"Anyone with more than 2K was treated the same"

And a lot of battles were random just because nobody had less than 2K

[cunning dew]

How about this. Do a 1 week test on how it used to be again so we can have a feel for it and maybe its not as bad as we thought. Could be interested

[native plaza]

Here

[cunning dew]

Similar to how you did the Auto aim test

[viscid gorge]

Yes

[native plaza]

Here sorry 😔

[viscid gorge]

Okay, so my next question would be is if 2000 battles was their highest cap

[bleak oriole]

not even close

[viscid gorge]

Would we be able to know what it was?

[bleak oriole]

tbh, the first version - which might not have shown in the actual game that you all see, just used raw battle counts.

I think that was caught in internal testing, but it might have been live for a week or two.

It's been "a while".

[viscid gorge]

I'm just wondering if there was actually a time where really high battle count players were treated similarly to high outlier winrate players are now

A bracket capping at 2000 battles is definitely not that time

[autumn light]

In theory, if we did that we shouldn't tell you. It's kinda like placebo testing stuff, if you know the test is coming you'll look for changes even if they aren't there. It's just what humans do. Look at the number of people in this thread who came and complained about the MM change only to turn out to be a CW player.

[bleak oriole]

Or the ones with a lifetime 52% win rate

[cunning dew]

Im not a cw player I swear😭. Yea definitely i see that. But i would know if my winrate went back up.

Because i was very steady where I was at

Pretty much never moved

[autumn light]

i mean if there is a hugely noticeable change that people spot without being told, then it proves the point/answers the question 😄 Just saying that the awkward thing is if we told you that is coming then people would look for it and find it even when it isn't there unfortunately

[native plaza]

It's like the people who complain about the mm changes but play in platoons

Most the time

[viscid gorge]

#CalledOut

[native plaza]

No it's been stated in here multiple times platoons break the mm

Platoons are the one of/biggest denominator

[bleak oriole]

It's been stated multiple times (by me) that removing platoons from the MM would make the MM's (and by default, mine) life, much easier.

For some absolutely unknown reasons, my requests to remove platoons from the game have ... not been approved.

[viscid gorge]

I know, just joking around

[viscid gorge]

"Unknown reasons"

[digital orchid]

If platoons were removed from the game then what would even be the point of regiments/clans?

[lament mica]

He’s joking. It would make his job easier but it’s just something to deal with.

[silent tendon]

They literally destroyed this game, you want to have fun as a player that isn't avg? Nah enjoy 99% uptiers and the 40%wn8 trash in your team sniping in toptier heavys or just driving to the most useless location imaginable. Im quitting ts garbage again. Genuinely can't stand ts

[paper anvil]

Don't you love the senseless crying with over-exaggerated nonsense getting to nowhere? 👆

[paper anvil]

Well since whatever you guys did, the game feels a lot more fair and balanced in the team department, so i have no idea what the crying about is at all.

[silent tendon]

You play like 5games a day do you really think you can give actually unbiased and representative feedback? Dont think so

[paper anvil]

LOL love it when people are mega wrong yet confident enough to spew major BS.

[silent tendon]

Prove you played more than 10games a day avg the last week then

[paper anvil]

Last week? i been playing and giving feedback before you even joined Discord to begin with, and i don't have to prove anything, but you are welcome to do it yourself.
chop chop get to work.

[silent tendon]

Yea mate sucks to suck i guess 🥀

Blud joined August 2025 tryna talk like he's been here 10years kekw

[paper anvil]

DAM look at that win rate, what a CHAD who is that?

Quite the Win rate for a game with, almost like the MM was changed and people are randomly crying over? them sucking?? dunno.
HAD a bad game, go to Discord and blame the MM....
Even tho it was changed weeks ago...

[paper anvil]

Ironic, do i have to also say 99% uptiers or some BS to give an "Unbiased Feedback"? Top tier feedback right there, also amazing that heavy tanks can snipe with reduced accuracy with the update, maybe they cheating XD.

[silent tendon]

Nah it's about the amount of time i get absolute loosers in my team i don't care about winning i care about getting good games which is impossible if your teammates that are supposed to be doing something proceed to ignore their role because they get put in my match to essentially throw my game

[paper anvil]

Welcome to WOT.

[silent tendon]

The issue is the frequency increased due to the new matchmaking

[paper anvil]

Yeah and it was changed, now is not as aggressive as before, a few weeks later even i was complaining that the game was super weird and annoying to play due to the MM change being super aggressive, now is not that, i can calmly play and engage a bit and not have 3 to 6 teammates doing 0 damage and loosing against an entire team vs me at the end, now i rarely see, yet i still do but not as before, some triple 0s.
But barely enough to even notice.

[silent tendon]

Well i get spammed with uptiers and campers that sit in 705a jagde or even maus sitting on a hill instead of supporting the heavys for 5 min straight and that isn't even an overstatement. The games actually suck

[digital orchid]

Doesn’t help when they keep adding dogsh*t maps like Komarin to tier 10

That map belong to tier 7 maximum

Right on queue. 3rd time tonight

💩

[silent tendon]

If only i got spammed by proko mali or himmels that much

[digital orchid]

This game is so finished bro

Map rotation rigged, teams rigged

What’s not rigged at this point

Haven’t seen Westfield in 2 whole weeks 🤡

Komarin 15x the last week though

[paper anvil]

Yeah that map doesn't belong to tier 10 i agree there.

[paper anvil]

I mean you know when a new map reaches the game it has an increased rotation, good or bad XD.

[silent tendon]

Just look at this one happenes every game on this map smh

Westfield is just as bad btw

[digital orchid]

Can’t remember the last time actually got to use the middle of that map because of this

[silent tendon]

You used to be able to. not anymore 🙂

[fleet elm]

This is literally the most useless screenshot for this thread (tied with all the other screenshots)

[thorny bramble]

*hour

It really feels like its komarin only

[autumn light]

i've had this happen literally a decade ago, when we didn't even have the pairs MM that the current system is based on.

Also, you have mentioned being uptiered as a critisism of the MM changes so just in case you were under some wrong info, the MM changes have 0 ability or impact on tiering, classes, etc etc of the 30 in the game. The only impact it had was after the 30 are picked, which team are the 28 after the first pair on.

[uneven shoal]

I think that screenshot more points to map design and something I mentioned way further up in the thread about a desire to not be on the same side of the map every time

[fleet elm]

That seems legitimately impossible with out player count and the way the MM pairs people, as nice as it might be

[uneven shoal]

I’m sure it’s not easy, but it would be a nice QoL feature

[fleet elm]

The only realistic way to do it would be to just get the most players playing on a different side than their last time. No way to get everybody

[uneven shoal]

It would obviously be tough to run it perfectly like that, but even an attempt would be nice.

[coral zephyr]

The biggest problem is that every time we have a losing day, streak etc. We will blame the MM for screwing us over. Every time.

It used to be a tinfoil hat theory. But now it is reality. It is more discouraging now. It used to be bad luck. Now it could very well be the MM putting such bad players purposely on your team that you can't win.

That does not seem like an improvement nor a better quality of life.

[coral zephyr]

Random was better than whatever we have now in ww2.

[silent tendon]

My point is that it happens every fkn time now which wasn't the case before

[proper valley]

Feels more fair?

Brother I question how some of these players survived the tutorial

But this does feel fair

What we currently have

Just wonder how some of these players can be so...dull?

[celest osprey]

I wonder half the time how some players enjoy the grind to tier 10 doing an average of two shots of damage the entire way up. It feels almost intentional with some of these guys. Then I remember seeing the general public within the last 20 years and I can see why. Thus is why I am paired with them. It hurts to watch.

[hoary lance]

It would be very nice, if the MM could take into account, if someone plays a stock tank. In general I'm fine with carrying other teammates but while playing a stock tier 9 tank and usually seeing tier 10s this is almost impossible. So this resulted in me having a 39 % wr in 28 battles with my stock tier 9 conqueror while having a 55 % overall wr. 💀 I know at some point it will take my tank wr into account and the mm will get much better for me. While getting a better upgraded tank the MM than thinks I'm a 39 % wr player and maybe puts me in the team with more better players which could lead to the exact opposite of the experience i had to begin with. Now battles could become way too easy because my wr is now undervalued. So first the current MM overvalues my impact in a battle because it takes my overall wr and then when I played enough battles, it takes the very low tank wr and it undervalues my impact to the battle. An easy fix to this would be, if the MM could take into account the tank level. When buying a new tt tank you normally start on level 1. So if that is the case, the MM could take this into account when he calculates the delta between a pair of two players. The picture shows the tank levels which I'm meaning. Atm I'm on level 3. This would be very helpful for the beginning of a stock grind and would make these matches much more balanced and enjoyable. Especially on tier 9.

[coral zephyr]

The mm seemed fine with +1/-1. With +2/-2 there is too much of a power difference between tiers and players.

bottom-tier tank x good player + top-tier tank x bad player ≠ bottom-tier tank x bad player + top-tier tank x good player

[ocean reef]

+1/-1 matchmaking is a positive improvement that benefits all players especially those grinding a tech tree. What was the customer feedback on this and why has it not been implemented?

An effort is being made to level all winrates to 50%. Those customers with high winrates are placed at a disadvantage each match to lower their winrate. Not much replay value in that. A feel good tactic to lift up the underserved low win rate community.

[meager badger]

This was a fun morning coffee sipping read ☕️

[woven aurora]

The match making has gone off the chain... You guys and ladies have 3 players about to quit playing permanently... I go from a 74 percent win rate down 👇 to 50 after 50 games yesterday and everything we had a 26 percent win rate! The day before 38 percent... That is 3 people who have been playing for a combined 30 plus years... And untold amount of money 💰. I know you guys avoid answering questions like the plague but for God sake fire everyone over there and start over... The developers and community manager have less than a clue about the game... Just because you want the people who have no idea to have a better experience so the people you stick me with have been bad and will be
bad no matter who you put on their team 👏... Thanks for the past ten years but we are done 👍. Just ordered my PC might try world of tanks PC. Thanks for the match making fix 😂 Because that was the number one thing wrong with the game...

[woven aurora]

Because the player base has been split between WW2 and coldwar they
even stated 6 years ago that the player base was not big enough and now I have bots in the middle of the day at tier 9... People are leaving the game in herds but the biggest complaint is plus one minus one 🤣 🤣🤣 they are giving away free tier 10 tanks and cold war tanks like no tomorrow if you have a great product you don't have to lure people back with free tanks... They know the game is dying... I personally don't have the stomach to stay on this sinking ship...

@ocean reef Why because people are bad . .

[unreal hound]

Talking Bs i play 90% solo and can still get those numbers. Also i made the effort to look your claims about your Winate they are wrong you are an average player with around 50% Winrate NOT 70% overall so you are least affected by those changes.
People told the game was dead since 2018 so yeah just BS as well if you want to leave do it, but we all know you are just salty because you had a bad seasion which happens to all of us.
The other doomtrooper doesnt even show his stats so i assume his claims are as false as are yours.

[unreal hound]

you are just yelling stuff because you are mad,your 30 Day is still 50,6 % so no 70 %. I just cant stand those people who just openly lie and make accusations which have no foundation also your tm8 is still pulling 60% W/R recent so it cant be that bad 😅 .

did you just remove your Gamertag from your Account so that people cant see the Truth XD

[cursive tinsel]

Don't get what MoE are really mean to be considered as part of MM considering the abilities to farm them at low player count times in this day and age but.

[native plaza]

Mm has little to nothing to do with bots games tbh

This is mm thread not a MOE thread

[unreal hound]

i get where you have those 70% its your battery dude not your winrate 😂

[cursive tinsel]

There still days in your track battles where you still had days at high 50%, good handful of 60%, the odd 70%. Your roughest days have been the last two. So I dont get that at all. This week going to be hell for anyone due to the earn op currently so games are gonna be rough.

[unreal hound]

so whats this the account you linked before but now have unlinked?

[cursive tinsel]

Again old post battle screen shots mean nothing to this thread.

[native plaza]

What is your point, the thread is about mm

[cursive tinsel]

Your past, rough, month of battles have been a mix of some day been higher, some days lower. So I dont really get the calim being made at all.

[native plaza]

Also by the sounds of things you are platooning which means you ain't affected by mm changes @woven aurora

[digital orchid]

Why wargaming won’t give us +1-1 permanently

One of their main monetisation practices is to frustrate people with +2-2 so they pay for gold to skip stock tanks

With +1-1 stock tanks are actually playable

[cunning dew]

i actually grinded alot during the event. was so fun

[ocean reef]

Each time that I played during the +1-1 trial there were rarely any bots. +1-1 was one of the best potential improvements that could be implemented. I really think WOT is not going forward with the change because it gives subpar players a chance to beat up on lower tiers and win. It’s a feel good move. If it’s not, I would love to hear from WOT and disprove this theory.

[digital orchid]

No better time. I had already gotten all the tanks I had wanted even years back with the previous tests

But I could see how it would be beneficial for grinding. I mean, not being completely wrecked by tanks you can’t penetrate is great for the game

Not great for WG’s wallet though

Just remember that any decision wargaming makes is because

[ocean reef]

Eventually they will run out of gimmicks and run out of players that play the game on a daily basis.

[digital orchid]

I’m surprised they haven’t changed premium rounds back to being only purchasable with gold yet I can’t lie

Oh damn, I just gave them another idea

[digital orchid]

I’ve barely played since the camo changes the game just feels cooked and spotting feels more random than ever

[ocean reef]

I have 25k battles and I typically purchase chests during the week. This is the least fun I have had. I have reduced my playtime by at least 75% and I refuse to purchase any chests. Why purchase a product from a company that fails to listen to the customers that have made them successful?

The game specifically places high win-rate players at a disadvantage, Now every match is a sweatfest if I want a win. There is no fun in that.

When I first started to play my win rate was in the 40’s. Then I got better through experience and it increased to 60. WOT punished me for that? It is more important for WOT for everyone to have a winrate of 50 so everyone feels good, garbage.

[digital orchid]

Since the second set of changes they made to the matchmaking I’ll be honest that has felt a little better for me. Still not back to the win rate that my career is, but close to it. I’ll take that over whatever shenanigans were going on before. I hit 51% wr as a 62% career player at one point lmao

Haven’t had less than 58 %since they “adjusted” some things after we were all complaining about it

But it’s still not what it was

I don’t understand their strategy I really don’t. +1-1 would keep more players long term, and maybe even bring some old ones back. More players = more wallets to clean out with premium tanks

Why wouldn’t you introduce matchmaking like this which could increase your profits even more. My only guess is +2-2 matchmaking makes then too much money

[ocean reef]

My passion for the game has decreased. This has been my go to game for years. Now I don’t look forward to it nearly as much.

[digital orchid]

But they come up with excuses like “we don’t have the player count” etc etc as to why they won’t make it permanent

[ocean reef]

The +1-1 worked. I rarely saw bots.

[digital orchid]

I played ~100 games that whole week and had 5 bot games. Before I was getting minimum 5 bot games a day

Never mind 5 a week

Clear proof it is better than +2 despite their claims that it would increase bot games and queue times

Majority of the players were experiencing the complete opposite just like me

But we still need more data

[lament mica]

Not sure if it’s the mm or the equipment changes but getting teams that do nothing but redline is not fun. Gonna call bs on any indication that games are effectively longer when it is not really a game anymore because the last two green hid in the back all game and the reds wander around for 5 minutes looking for them.

[digital orchid]

It’ll be the camo changes

Now players are scared to move anywhere