Faction Missions

[crystal marsh]

In the faction servers, both slayer and demon, you will take a role based on what region you play in, and what time you’re online.

There will be “Mission Setter (s)” in both servers that schedules everyone’s time and region. They give either a Slayer the information or a Demon the information.

Slayer Faction Mission: The mission setters will ping the Slayer whenever the demon is online, and give them a server link. They will also be given the username, in game avatar picture, and the demons coordinates (if possible)

Demons: Demons will be given missions to eat a few players (per mission, so like 2-4 per mission)

REWARDS!: Each time a Slayer or Demon finishes their mission, their faction will be given a point. At the end of the marking period, the winning faction can vote on patching or adding something that’s not NEEDED to be patched or added, but just there for player comfort.

Reasonings:

Slayer: Give players an immersive feeling, like this is an actual job. (P.S you also get money for doing these.)

Demons: Same thing as slayers.

Rewards: Help players stay in touch with the game, and if they have any gripes or negative opinions with something, they can use the game to fix them. It also breeds competition.

[rocky oar]

This is actually a good idea

Ignore scouts X

I actually fw this heavy

[rocky oar]

Everyone getting hunted by me

Lord forbid I get my hands on it

[crystal marsh]

Ty! Though, I wonder if the devs actually read the suggestions

[crystal marsh]

Lowk don’t feel like it means anything in actuality

[rocky oar]

W

I'd give it a check but I can't

[modern summit]

There was an entire game that basically failed because they included those missions and 95% of the player base hated it and it was terrible for gameplay

It's another reason people hate on games that require pvp alongside pve to progress

And this is functionally just assigning hits and server leaking which promotes server chasing and overall focused toxicity, also bad for gameplay and communities

[crystal marsh]

What was that game? I would like to look into it.

[crystal marsh]

The toxicity you’re talking about is just being competitive. Yes, I would trash talk the person who sold a point for their team.

And turning the game into a bandit beater is the #1 way to make it die.

[rocky oar]

You can just make it opt in right? So you can only hunt down someone who agrees to be hunted

[modern summit]

It was a popular one a couple months back, other examples include stuff like type soul ans ghoul re

[rocky oar]

And not share general server location because that encourages server hopping to find them etc and keep it same game wise ig

[crystal marsh]

Fighting actual humans is better than farming bosses

[modern summit]

Which is still extremely problematic for a community standpoint

[crystal marsh]

That would be hell looking for a person with no pointers though

[crystal marsh]

I don’t see why

[modern summit]

Pvp progress is basically never good for a community and almost always terrible from a gameplay standpoint

[modern summit]

[modern summit]

Competitivenesd and toxicity are different

Trash talk and toxicity are different

Pinging about a specified target will cause that player to be focused and hunted for several hours at least, meaning their best option is to close the game

And then people will go back through prior days to get easy targets

[crystal marsh]

Why don’t we just find ways to make it good instead of shunning the idea as a whole?

[modern summit]

Because that wouldn't even be similar to your suggestion if we did so

[crystal marsh]

You could just turn off the ability to be hunted

[crystal marsh]

It quite literally would be

[modern summit]

Which doesn't change the issues I stated?

[modern summit]

No because there aren't good elements to this idea from a gameplay and community standpoint

[rocky oar]

If opt-in PvP with limits and protections is still considered 'extremely problematic,' then what isn’t problematic?

[crystal marsh]

Your issues were:

“toxicity”
pvp mission bad
bad community bad

[modern summit]

False, you didn't read into what was said

[crystal marsh]

Because you aren’t elaborating.

[modern summit]

Except I did?

[crystal marsh]

You are serving us a nothing burger and expecting us to be full.

[crystal marsh]

Well you didn’t do it well.

[modern summit]

I explained the counter to each of your "counter points"

[crystal marsh]

Okay, let’s go over it again.

[modern summit]

You can go actually read what was said

It's a waste of my time to restate it if you didn't read it in the first place

[crystal marsh]

Type Soul did very well btw just needed to add that

[modern summit]

I left an X cause it's easier to leave an X than to explain all this just to habe people not read it

[crystal marsh]

shh

I’m reading I can’t go down and up

[modern summit]

That's why they had to remove it from their game and almost the entire game hated every pvp related part of progression

Totally did it very well

Totally didn't have groups of people going around intentionally making the game hell for players under the guise of progression

Or a severe alt issue due to how much of a pain it was to progress legit without getting ganked/targetted

Or a severe blackmarketted account issue due to how horrible it was for people who didn't want to deal with all the pvp

[crystal marsh]

Nowhere in this suggestion does it indicate or even reference that this is used for progression. It’s an option to gain points for your faction

[modern summit]

Any form of reward is a guise of progression, even just a useless leaderboard

[crystal marsh]

There would be other ways

[modern summit]

Anybody who plays any kind of videogame would understand that

Any type of incentive to kill other players is an excuse for people to make the game hell

It's not very difficult to understand

[crystal marsh]

Would you rather have blox fruits or type soul?

[modern summit]

Blox fruits has better pvp protection and a less annoying pvp community

[modern summit]

And private servers to avoid issues

Both are ass, but if you're going to make a comparison, think it over first

[crystal marsh]

I did think it over

[rocky oar]

I see what you mean but don't use blox as a comparison 😭🙏 games dog shit

But I'm seeing your points kind of

[crystal marsh]

So quality of the game itself doesn’t matter to you?

[modern summit]

I'm not the one who made the comparison

[rocky oar]

All right I'll see myself out

[crystal marsh]

Pretty sure it was a mistake

[modern summit]

If you want to talk about games overall, blox fruits is more flushed out but type soul has better specific combat

[crystal marsh]

I feel like type soul has more stuff to do in general yeah? And a more interesting loop?

[modern summit]

Not at all

There are less ways to progress, less things to do late game (it was just boss farming or kill players), less variety to said late game rewards (everyone ran the same gear kits)

[crystal marsh]

Quite literally the only thing you do in blox fruits is hit bandits, and take more quests no?

[modern summit]

Nope

There are multiple options for progression at almost every point of the game

[crystal marsh]

Like?

[modern summit]

Sea events, raids, quests, farming specific enemies, farming raid bosses, doing leviathan, doing different world bosses

Rather than the same progression loop of "quests/events/player kills and do more per rank"

Each option also having varying other benefits aside from leveling for blox fruits

[crystal marsh]

Sea events are hitting enemies. Raids are hitting enemies. Quests are hitting enemies, raid bosses are hitting enemies, leviathan is hitting enemies with a parsley touch, and world bosses are hitting enemies.

[modern summit]

Funnily enough, by what a bandit beater actually is, type soul is closer to being a bandit beater than blox fruits is

[modern summit]

Pvp is hitting enemies

[crystal marsh]

Yes, but in PVP your enemy actually thinks.

[modern summit]

Use actual logic if you're going to make a bad argument

[modern summit]

[crystal marsh]

How many times are you gonna use this exact sentence archetype?

It’s getting repetitive.

[ionic rain]

sigh why can’t deepwoken do this-

[modern summit]

So is having to say the same thing because you're not actually making a good argument

[crystal marsh]

You quite literally don’t think anything is a good argument. I’ve surfed throughout all of these suggestions and I don’t remember a single one that you thought the other person made a good argument for themself.

[modern summit]

By your logic, every non-pvp progression game would be a bandit beater, which is flat out wrong

[modern summit]

Because they haven't? If you read what is said, you'd realize that

[crystal marsh]

Progression can be other things than just hitting bandits

[modern summit]

why can nobody use their brain

[crystal marsh]

Maybe if you agree with nothing, the problem is you

[crystal marsh]

I admit I’m pacing a lot in this conversation

[modern summit]

I guess WoW is a bandit beater, I guess Neverwinter is a bandit beater, Warframe, Dark Souls, etc

Cause the enemies don't think

I guess every game without pvp progression is a bandit beater

That's your logic here bud

[crystal marsh]

Quite literally they would be considered that. Fighting enemies over and over to progress the game.

That’s what a bandit beater is bud

[modern summit]

No, a bandit beater is a game with a singular, linear, little if any variation, progression path

Meaning purely quests, or purely farming an enemy

Not multiple ways you can progress to the final point

[crystal marsh]

We both have very different views of that phrase.

[modern summit]

I use it as the original, unmodified meaning of what the term was meant for

[agile panther]

So could multiple people jump the same dude and get the reward?

[modern summit]

You use it as the label it has turned into for any game people don't like

[modern summit]

Their idea is that and the dude would basically be announced on discord and where he is

[agile panther]

O

[crystal marsh]

Privately was the original idea

Directly to the single person with the mission

[agile panther]

Maybe in-game would be a bit cooler but I doubt they'd do something like that

Since not everybody will be on the discord

[crystal marsh]

It’s..a faction dude

[low portal]

milk9201 You’ve Reached Level 6

[modern summit]

Which turns into them dming buddies to go with them and give them the grip

[crystal marsh]

on discord, a faction server

[agile panther]

Tru

[modern summit]

With how much you seem to think you know about pvp games, you should know how this would go

[crystal marsh]

Appeals and reports with recording

[modern summit]

It's simple

[modern summit]

"But I don't know those guys, they saw me fighting and joined in"

[crystal marsh]

Who would believe this?

And even then

The point would be deducted still

[modern summit]

Anybody who knows how shitty pvp game communities are

[agile panther]

I feel like it'd be a bit complicated I like the idea but there'd be a lot more people teaming up one dude

[low portal]

sauceysoso You’ve Reached Level 1

[modern summit]

So then you can join in on any random gank to deduct points

[crystal marsh]

How would that make sense? If a slayer is fighting a demon to get points

And another demon joins in to get the slayers deducted

[modern summit]

You see a fight, you join in, no points

[modern summit]

Or you're a demon main on a slayer just trying to sabotage

[crystal marsh]

If a demon joins a demon that’s getting hunted, that wouldn’t deduct the slayer point nor deduct the demon

[modern summit]

Or your buddy is a slayer and you're a demon and you get the demon killed

[crystal marsh]

huh?

[modern summit]

Then that still nullifies it

It's a pvp game, unless you're hiding when fighting, almost no 1v1 will be respected

By your logic at least it would be a pvp game

Which means pvp playerbase

Which means a bunch of kill hungry pricks who will kill any and everyone they see, even if they're fighting

And a duel mechanic would also be a bad idea as addressed in previous suggestions

[agile panther]

Wouldn't it be a bit better if the crows give you bounties tho? I feel like needing to go into discord and come back would just complicate it a bit

[crystal marsh]

To solve this problem, what if when a slayer joins in a slayer fight, a point for slayers get deducted. When a demon joins in a slayer fight, a demon point gets deducted?

Meaning joining in, consequences for either side

[modern summit]

Doesn't stop what I said?

People intentionally sabotaging or not caring

Type soul had lots of people making alts/other slots to sabotage faction events for buddies or blindside gank people in events

Same thing has happened on Rune Slayer

[ionic rain]

he means that u don’t have to help your side. you could be a slayer helping the demon side cause you’re friends with someone that’s trying to progress that way

[modern summit]

Really not that hard to understand

[ionic rain]

and i get you just want to suggest something to provide the game with more things to do but the big issue is that its pvp

nothing gets respected in pvp

rarely you’ll meet someone that’s chill enough to have an enjoyable 1v1

[modern summit]

Suggesting to suggest versus suggesting to genuinely improve the game are two different things

[ionic rain]

rest of the time it’s either u get bullied hard, you win or it turns into a 6v1 cause they’re in a call and their entire friend group hopped on

[crystal marsh]

“Suggesting to suggest” if someone wants something into the game or at least to pitch an idea that can be expanded upon they have a right to??

It doesn’t matter if it’s a “bad idea” to your outlandish standards

[modern summit]

There is a difference between making a good, genuine, thought out suggesting and just throwing out shit

[crystal marsh]

“good”

what does that even mean to you?

[modern summit]

Quality, decent, helpful for the game and beneficial more than harmful

[crystal marsh]

Quality - subjective
Decent - Indirect, Subjective word
Helpful - Subjective
Beneficial - Subjective

I need like a sentence with just no words that come from opinion

Every single word should be bred with fact

[modern summit]

None of them are subjective when you can use qualitative reasoning to figure out all of them

[modern summit]

I rarely speak against a suggestion from opinion, if I do, I'll say I don't like something just out of personal preference

[crystal marsh]

Standards, especially yours are different from everybody else’s

[modern summit]

That's why not everybody else is a good game dev/tester?

They want cool not quality

[crystal marsh]

I see what u mean but I don’t know how to say smth to this

tired, finish debate later

ggs so far this is going well

I see ur points

@modern summit though before we do this again I have a request for you

Modify the suggestion into smth that you think would be a “better version” even if you wouldn’t add it in the first place

And apologies if I’m not supposed to ping you

That’s all I ask for when we debate again if it isn’t too much of an issue

[modern summit]

There isn't a good quality to this suggestion, so I'm not going to make a new one from scratch

[crystal marsh]

I wanna see your take on smth like this

[modern summit]

Like I said earlier

[ionic rain]

the point of making it feel more immersive is good, it’s just the idea behind it

and it doesn’t take much to be immersive

[crystal marsh]

imo it does, there aren’t many Roblox games like that

[modern summit]

I didn't even go into the hastle of faction staff to read the reports, filter them, do the pinging, do the punishing, watch the proof of target kill, maintain score, etc

[ionic rain]

met a dude some years ago who just role played and had a fun time with it

[modern summit]

And the amount of rigging and cheating that would happen as well

[ionic rain]

just running around and going “no demons shall enter this town” or something

[crystal marsh]

I was thinking about making a roleplay server suggestion but didn’t think many ppl would want it

[modern summit]

For the people who prefer immersion, all it takes is an avatar, and games along the rpg lines aren't for immersive enjoyers

[ionic rain]

probably not, doesn’t need a whole server to role play

[modern summit]

Been discussed and turned down a couple times

[ionic rain]

and adding to my earlier point, even if you don’t do anything someone’s gonna pop up and start something

like how there used to be server wars

and ppl were just joining to have fun and fight

nothing more

and pvp can get super frustrating at times and especially for those that may be younger playing the game, it’s not as fun to pvp for them

like those vr spell fights where it’s like an 11 yr old screaming their head off

[modern summit]

Bounces back to the community stuff stated earlier

[crystal marsh]

Hypothetically, how would the two enemy factions even interact?

[ionic rain]

I mean for a bit of time

[modern summit]

Just like every game, either chilling or immediately fighting, just how games go

[ionic rain]

they had war events

where they’d have half slayers half demons fight it out

but that didn’t last too long

[modern summit]

Those were just scheduled back to back fights

[ionic rain]

yeah

[modern summit]

Not actual wars or hits

And for no scoreboard or anything

Just bored

[ionic rain]

ppl that needed something to do

[crystal marsh]

what if for a suggestion I just cleaned that concept up and put it out

[ionic rain]

throwback to minobu/rice casual hangouts

ppl from either side

would just group up there

[modern summit]

Because you don't need to suggest that

[ionic rain]

and chill for hours

the casual fight here and there

[modern summit]

It wasn't built into the game, it was just community staff deciding to do it randomly

They still do it from time to time

That's just suggesting already existing content

[ionic rain]

it’s not gonna work long term

[crystal marsh]

so ur telling me when the faction actually starts, I could just ask?

[ionic rain]

it’s better off being an event now and then

[modern summit]

They'll probably just do it in the first place when they want to

[modern summit]

It's just glads events at this point which happen still

[ionic rain]

they tried a number of different methods

[ionic rain]

lol yeah

[modern summit]

I tried* they all worked until the community got more stupid

[ionic rain]

that’s partly why HvD came around

sides fighting and u get some reward out of it

and yen is just to flex

[modern summit]

HvD was a spin-off of one of my events I made

[ionic rain]

u shouldn’t need more than 100k if ur going for a haori

otherwise only time you’ll need money is for gourds

stone was just early access purchase for the in game rich before it became a questline

[crystal marsh]

I’m gonna head to bed, thank u two for talking with me (btw bread ur cool)

[rocky oar]

Damn Bru y'all been going at ts for a minute

[modern summit]

That's how having a discussion works